Summoner Summoning A+ yes please shoot the person that came up with the idea A-

[Manux]

I was looking at the Skills for Summoner and I noticed something very off why do we Summoners only have a A- Rank in Summoning and that's our Main skill, White Mage has A+ in Healing and Black Mage has A+ in Element Magic and Red Mage has A+ in enfeebling magic and that's their main casting jobs. the sub casting for Whm, Blm and Rdm are different class for me like enfeebling magic,enhancing,healing,divine,dark yet we Summoner got screwed with our A- Rank in our {Main}
Can you please explain this to us because its a joke.

White Mage: Healing at lvl 99 >> 424
Black Mage: Elemental Magic at lvl 99 >> 424
Red Mage: Enfeebling Magic at lvl 99 >> 424
Blue mage: Blue Magic at lvl >> 424
Dark Knight: Dark Magic at lvl 99 >> 417
Ninja: Ninjutsu at lvl 99 >> 417

I stand by this talk to him the person that came up with the idea A- for Summoning magic Oo.
can anyone catch something out here O.o

If the community representative see this Please delete the thread I made for this on
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[Urthdigger]

A lot of jobs don't have an A+ in their "main" skill, and not every skill has a job with an A+ in it. For example, the Geomancy, Handbell, Singing, Wind Instrument, and String Instrument skills are all C.

[Alhanelem]

A lot of jobs don't have an A+ in their "main" skill, and not every skill has a job with an A+ in it. For example, the Geomancy, Handbell, Singing, Wind Instrument, and String Instrument skills are all C.
There is a reason though. songs effect are based on the sum of singing and instrument skill, and geomancy is based on the sum of geomancy and handbell skill, resulting in an effective skill level much higher than even A+ .

Summoning magic skill is never compared against an enemy's resists, so it's not needed for that purpose, whereas a skill like elemental magic, the rating is more important because it direclty determines how likely your spells are to work.

While I don't understand why summoning magic being A- would trigger such a rage-induced post, any increase certainly would be welcomed, since it doesn't really harm any balance- though I hope the OP understands that doing this would NOT increase the duration of blood pacts, which are based on the amount of bonus skill points you have, not on total summoning magic. Perfect defense is the only exception as the duration is based on total summon skill.

[Manux]

Hows that fair for us smn they are all ready looking into the 2 new jobs?

Lets just look at this example guys again:

White Mage: Healing at lvl 99 >> 424
Black Mage: Elemental Magic at lvl 99 >> 424
Red Mage: Enfeebling Magic at lvl 99 >> 424
Blue mage: Blue Magic at lvl >> 424
Dark Knight: Dark Magic at lvl 99 >> 417
Ninja: Ninjutsu at lvl 99 >> 417
I don't get it why the summoner get 417 at lvl 99 did they put us with DD or something O.o the table above shows everything.

[Byrth]

They designed the BPs to have a certain potency at capped skill, so asking for an A+ cap just means that you would have had to skill up further for the same effect.

[Alhanelem]

They designed the BPs to have a certain potency at capped skill, so asking for an A+ cap just means that you would have had to skill up further for the same effect.Basically, this. While I won't care if they increase it or not, it's rather pointless to do so. As a correction to my original post, the only thing this would do is possibly add 1 second to your perfect defense.

[Caketime]

A lot of jobs don't have an A+ in their "main" skill, and not every skill has a job with an A+ in it. For example, the Geomancy, Handbell, Singing, Wind Instrument, and String Instrument skills are all C.

While true, it still doesn't make any sense that the only job with Summoning skill natively has an A-. It's almost as odd as Fencer being given to BST and not RDM, or Shield Defense Bonus for WHM.

[Manux]

Basically, this. While I won't care if they increase it or not, it's rather pointless to do so. As a correction to my original post, the only thing this would do is possibly add 1 second to your perfect defense.

no one care about that i want it same just like the all of the mages whm,blm,rdm,blue.
We are talking about what the job role is as a Summoner what they do since we all know as white mage we just heal...

[Demon6324236]

I would say in the matters of SMN and NIN, it makes little sense, these are the only stats which the spells play off of unlike GEO and BRD skills, while at the same time no other job in the game will/should ever have access to these skills natively, meaning raising them to A+ seems like it would be a good idea to me.

[Alhanelem]

no one care about that i want it same just like the all of the mages whm,blm,rdm,blue.It's irrelevant.

It's not like WHM BLM RDM and BLU are "better than" SMN because they have a couple more points in their best skill. Its an irrelevant comparison as the skills don't even do the same thing. The only argument I see here is "I want SMN skill to be the same as WHM has in healing because... well, because!" or "It's not fair!" - The thing is, it isn't unfair.

Like I said, I'm not opposed- all I'm saying is it doesn't do anything. They're just numbers- Whether they're the same or different, it doesn't mean anything. They could give us A+++super+++ skill, give us 10000 skill, all it would do is make it take (a lot) longer to skill up.

They could set summoning magic skill to 0 and it would have no effect (to anything other than PD) other than causing your bonus skill points to kick in right away.

[Manux]

Like I said, I'm not opposed- all I'm saying is it doesn't do anything. They're just numbers- Whether they're the same or different,
It does more then that and all I'm saying is that summoning magic skill to be increased. but if you haven't played smn you wouldn't know about this http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Summoning_Magic

And we are talking about why the smn has A- for summoning magic why can't whm have the A- also in Healing ?

[Camiie]

The devs would make changes like this, but they live in abject terror of us becoming even fractionally as effective as her:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/71/Yuna.png

Yep. She's why we can't have nice things.

[Alhanelem]

It does more then that and all I'm saying is that summoning magic skill to be increased. but if you haven't played smn you wouldn't know about this http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Summoning_Magic

And we are talking about why the smn has A- for summoning magic why can't whm have the A- also in Healing ?
Again, because it's irrelevant. Why does every mage job have to have the same skill? Is summoner put at some kind of disadvantage because of this difference? No, it's not. You can't compare healing magic skill to summoning magic skill. Its apples and oranges. The only comparable effect is spell interruption rate- and perhaps the devs decided that summoning magic should have a higher chance to be interrupted by the same level mob than certain other jobs with certain other kinds of magic? It was most likely a balance decision, trivial as I think it is.

And thanks for linking to the wiki but I am a summoner and I know what summoning magic does (That thing about better AI on spirits is a load of crap though- I'm not sure who added that). The only really meaningful effects are granted by skill over the cap. The benefit to elemental siphon by this change would be about the most useful thing to come out of it.

I'm not sure why you're so adamant about changing something so insignificant. if they change it, good on them, but there's a lot of other things SMN needs a lot more than this.

As far as WHM, changing its skill has a meaningful impact because it affects the balance between that job and other jobs which have the skill. WHMs is higher than that of other jobs and the result is (to some extent) superior healing magic effects on that job compared to others. Because no other job has summoning magic skill, they can arbitrarily set it to whatever they want- it doesn't need to be set to a certain amount in order to be "better" than that of another job because no other such job exists.

I guess I've said my piece. Yay if they change it, but doesn't really matter. this debate is rather pointless just because of the skill's relative meaninglessness until the skill cap is exceeded. I feel like people are making more noise than they really intend for the sole sake of hoping SE will be more likely to listen. This isn't an important issue so I'm done talking about it.

[Karbuncle]

I like SMN as a job, I agree with Ahlnahnelhem on this one.

Summoning Magic Skill is pointless except for each point above the natural cap, outside of, as of now, PD. Well, that and Summoning Spirit Recast times, but those are far more influenced by pieces of gear than they would be another ~15 skill of getting an A+.

In Fact, asking to get an A+ would only make it harder for Summoners to cap their skills, also making it harder for them to get skill above cap, which is what matters the most for BP Ward and Rage. Basically Summoning Magic Skill is fine as A-, I personally would not want to have to skill up again just to be where i was at before it was raised. Its pointless, Fix the job from being complete crap instead of focusing on this king of all non-issues.

Srsly, I've raged at real minor stuff too before, So i know how it can be, But this is a needless update, regardless of principles/etc. THF Sits at A- Dagger, which i think makes 0 sense, but i guess since they have A+ Eva its suppose to be peachy? Goodness, long story short, I have to side with Alnahlmehelmeh here, Pointless upgrade, and just more work for Summoners.

Plus if they did give us A+ they'd likely readjust Alexander's formula anyway.

[RAIST]

I'd rather the skill level have a direct correlation to our avatar's stats somehow. Even if it was just a simple tweak similar to how our combat skills tweak our effectiveness with our weapons. Granted, it could be overpowering if it was a direct correlation....even if it was just a small fraction of our skill level that went into a flat boost to stats for our avatars, it could go a long way towards resolving some of our more recent issues. For that matter, just make the skill over cap also translate to a physical/magic damage boost instead of just ACC/MACC and it would be a leap forward.

So much potential for this job is just lost to SE. Really wish they'd hurry up and announce their planned tweaks so we can give them some feedback on it. So afraid it's going to be something cheezy again that falls short of what it really needs.

[Sargent]

Plus if they did give us A+ they'd likely readjust Alexander's formula anyway.

I doubt they'd adjust the PD formula since it caps at 600 skill, but it would make it more likely to hit that in the future. As much as I do agree that Summoning skill, as well as Ninjutsu skill should have been set to A+ from the get go, all it would realistically do now is make it easier for people to hit the 500 skill mark for buffs, as if it wasn't easy enough already.

[OmnysValefor]

Summoner has a couple of pressing issues going on, but 7 magic skill points is not among them.

I love my ninja and I'm not complaining that it has an A- in Katana, Ninjutsu and Evasion.

Join the two active discussions on avatar's loltastic enmity if you want to see summoner improve.

[Babekeke]

I hope the OP understands that doing this would NOT increase the duration of blood pacts, which are based on the amount of bonus skill points you have, not on total summoning magic. Perfect defense is the only exception as the duration is based on total summon skill.


They designed the BPs to have a certain potency at capped skill, so asking for an A+ cap just means that you would have had to skill up further for the same effect.


Like I said, I'm not opposed- all I'm saying is it doesn't do anything. They're just numbers- Whether they're the same or different, it doesn't mean anything. They could give us A+++super+++ skill, give us 10000 skill, all it would do is make it take (a lot) longer to skill up.

They could set summoning magic skill to 0 and it would have no effect (to anything other than PD) other than causing your bonus skill points to kick in right away.


And thanks for linking to the wiki but I am a summoner and I know what summoning magic does (That thing about better AI on spirits is a load of crap though- I'm not sure who added that). The only really meaningful effects are granted by skill over the cap.


I like SMN as a job, I agree with Ahlnahnelhem on this one.

Summoning Magic Skill is pointless except for each point above the natural cap

I'm astounded at the lack of knowledge about BP wards by some people who have been playing SMN for such a long time.

Let's ignore the link to loloutofdatewiki, and look at the BGwiki (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Blood_Pact:_Ward) which as been updated since BP wards have been updated.

Long story short, with the rise of the level cap past 75, BP ward duration is based on skill over 300, not skill over cap. This bonus to duration caps at 500 skill.

Giving us A+ instead of A- would mean 7 less skill from gear to reach 500 cap. A moot point if you're trying to get the most out of your PD though as you'll still need to get the extra gear. Though I haven't looked into new gear so I'm not sure if these 7 points would add another second to PD if you had max + skill from gear.

It's all irrelevant to me anyway, despite SMN being my 1st job to 75, and capped and pretty dam sweet at 75 (I loved main healing on those bird parties just to show that it could be done by a SMN, and I'd still manage to spam predator claws or eclipse bite and hastega.), I levelled too much in WoE pre-skillups and don't play SMN enough anymore to re-cap my skills (I could bot it, but meh). This new merit point cap on magic does help though as I can now merit it as well as my elemental and enhancing.

Edit: although it's listed at the bottom of the BGwiki page, here is Arcon's thread (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/20767-Blood-Pact-Ward-testing) on these forums.

[Karbuncle]

i call bullsh*t on this sorcery of Wiki's.

That being said, Still, horrendously irrelevant as an update and 7 skill levels is easier is not entirely worth the effort. But thanks for the update. Wonder if they did something similar with Rage and we haven't noticed.

[Aezelas]

Would an explanation be that we have access to a lot of summoning magic skill + gear?

The other jobs you mentionned can and have to focus on other stats (mnd int str atk mag.atk + gear).
We don't have to focus on many other things than smn skill gear, especially since there are little avatar+ gear available.

A+ would be nice. A- doesn't bother me that much.

[Alhanelem]

A moot point... which is exactly what my message has been.