Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and WoE Weapons

[RushLynx]

If you wanna keep playing the devil's advocate, go ahead. I'll stop replying to the same questions over and over when it has been answered already in so many pages. Have fun.

Yes, god forbid we have a reasonable conversation about this... rather than constantly making unwarranted assertions, never backing them up and then attacking anyone who tries to find reason in them... Everyone knows, that's the best way reach mutual understandings about issues, just yell the loudest and dismiss anyone who disagrees with you.

[Zohno]

Yes, god forbid we have a reasonable conversation about this... rather than constantly making unwarranted assertions, never backing them up and then attacking anyone who tries to find reason in them... Everyone knows, that's the best way reach mutual understandings about issues, just yell the loudest and dismiss anyone who disagrees with you.

26th march
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/31250-To-all-adventurers-and-pioneers!?p=410836&viewfull=1#post410836
"We are not planning to enhance relic, mythic, or empyrean weapons via Trial of the Magians or through other methods.
However, in regards to these weapons that you have enhanced up to level 99, we are formulating plans so that they do not go to waste."

everyone was fine since he said they wouldn't go to waste and none expected a sudden change (29th april) in dmg power

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

26th april
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/31485-New-weapons-with-higher-base-damage-then-relics?p=424630&viewfull=1#post424630
"What I wished to convey was that we will be implementing a system to build on R/M/E weapons"

he changes idea and then matsui talks about a new system, probably in light of the 29th update

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

05th may
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/33112-Level-99-Relic-Mythic-Empyrean-and-WoE-Weapons?p=427149&viewfull=1#post427149
"We are planning to unlock the special weapon skills that are granted from RMEC"

Delve falls over Vana'diel, the status quo is destroyed, the shitstorm era begins

enough?

[RushLynx]

26th march
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/31250-To-all-adventurers-and-pioneers!?p=410836&viewfull=1#post410836
"We are not planning to enhance relic, mythic, or empyrean weapons via Trial of the Magians or through other methods.
However, in regards to these weapons that you have enhanced up to level 99, we are formulating plans so that they do not go to waste."

everyone was fine since he said they wouldn't go to waste and none expected a sudden change (29th april) in dmg power

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

26th april
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/31485-New-weapons-with-higher-base-damage-then-relics?p=424630&viewfull=1#post424630
"What I wished to convey was that we will be implementing a system to build on R/M/E weapons"

he changes idea and then matsui talks about a new system, probably in light of the 29th update

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

05th may
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/33112-Level-99-Relic-Mythic-Empyrean-and-WoE-Weapons?p=427149&viewfull=1#post427149
"We are planning to unlock the special weapon skills that are granted from RMEC"

Delve falls over Vana'diel, the status quo is destroyed, the shitstorm era begins

enough?

Yes, thank you...

I still disagree with the notion that years ago people were promised that their weapon would forever be on top... but clearly he did say in the past few months he was meaning to keep them around, and I can see how people would believe he doesn't understand what makes them significant to begin with.

So yes, I understand much of the frustration in this thread... But a lot of the rationale in here that's been cited as reasoning for, essentially, being more deserving than others on this issue isn't helping the case. The vast majority of this player base has invested a ton of time into some aspect of our characters, and many of us have felt at some point in time that our investment has been devalued... but your investment isn't better than someone else's just because you say so. (That's where I was coming from a few pages back.)

Was something promised to you? Yes, and they should totally keep their promise... but in my opinion they never meant that you wouldn't have to work for the upgrade, and they never said it would be the end-all-be-all best, as some have been suggesting. They also never gave you a timeline... they just said they were working on it, so this sudden uproar that the update to the weapons hasn't come to fruition, or even been worked out apparently, by the time your item was replaced is completely unnecessary and seems kind of misguided from some angles.

Much of these arguments have seemed to come from the understanding that nothing was planned to begin with, and they were outraged by that notion... which was apparently false, they've been thinking about this for a while and just haven't found a proper solution yet.

My opinion remains, though, that had they not said something to begin with they'd have no obligation at all to upgrade them or keep them around... because again, these investments aren't automatically better than others.

[Raksha]

Was something promised to you? Yes, and they should totally keep their promise... but in my opinion they never meant that you wouldn't have to work for the upgrade


While i'm sure you will find some people who've said they want SE to just instantly make their weapons 100D stronger, Most of the REM99 people I know (including myself) are actually looking forward to doing the new content in order to upgrade their REM99s

[Karah]

The biggest problem I'm having with this update, which only applies to maybe 3% of the entire community, is that I have -EVERY- empyrean weapon.

Now, while they aren't all the best, or even close to the best (in some cases) I play all 20 jobs (lolgeo and lolrun i don't even count them) you have the slightest idea how much time was spent building that many weapons?

You know how long and how much delve would be required to make the new weapon for all 20 jobs? A !@#$%^&*()load of time. Entirely too much time.

Now, you could say, "well build one weapon and play one job" that's not how FFXI works, and that's specifically why I play it. Now, there WILL BE options that are better than these new delve weapons, but in the meantime.... if you lack a delve weapon, you're seriously underpowered for any content that gets added...

So to me, this is a HUGE setback, there is literally 0% chance of me making or buying 20 AH/Delve weapons, literally ZERO.

So, I'm supposed to quit playing 18~ jobs and make 1 maybe 2 weapons at most before I blow my brains out from absolute boredom grinding ANOTHER dynamis style kill everything that moves, OH HELL TO THE NO.

[crutan]

What's interesting is Rush's main argument for why this is a good thing is because of the 'x Weapon Onry' mindset some players have, but if anything that sort of mindset is strengthened by this. Not weakened. It only shifts from 'RME Onry' to 'Delve Weapon/Geared Onry'.

And with this update and the impending elitism, are you going to whine that you can't get into a group for Delve because you don't have a Delve-geared SAM or WAR now? lol. You're going to need a Delve-geared job before you can do Delve. Wonderful, isn't it? At least you didn't have to do NNI to get a RME for the 'RME Onry' NNI shouts. This clearly isn't an adjustment for new players, nor is it one for old players, nor is it one for the developers(Fetch quests[ie Magian Trials] are a hell of a lot easier to maintain than events[ie Delve]), so who the f is this all for?

And as Raksha said, none of us are expecting +100DMG to just be thrown to us. We're willing to quest or Magian Trial or whatever for them. Just the fact that we have them kind of proves that we're willing to work for them. Most/some of us are okay with them not being 'on top', we just want them to be relevant. Is that too much to ask for? Considering RME owners, in general, have dedicated the most time and therefore the most money to SE and FFXI, you'd think they'd give a damn about their loyal customers. You know, Business 101...

I would think more highly of Matsui and the dev team, if they came out and said 'It's time to move on.' instead of spitting in our face and acting like they're doing a great thing for us. I'd still be quite upset that I wasted over a year of my life and over 175 million gil(including Marrow costs, if/when I get to that) for Final Heaven but I wouldn't have the extremely low opinion of them, to put it nicely, that I have now.

[Mirage]

The biggest problem I'm having with this update, which only applies to maybe 3% of the entire community, is that I have -EVERY- empyrean weapon.

Now, while they aren't all the best, or even close to the best (in some cases) I play all 20 jobs (lolgeo and lolrun i don't even count them) you have the slightest idea how much time was spent building that many weapons?

You know how long and how much delve would be required to make the new weapon for all 20 jobs? A !@#$%^&*()load of time. Entirely too much time.

Now, you could say, "well build one weapon and play one job" that's not how FFXI works, and that's specifically why I play it. Now, there WILL BE options that are better than these new delve weapons, but in the meantime.... if you lack a delve weapon, you're seriously underpowered for any content that gets added...

So to me, this is a HUGE setback, there is literally 0% chance of me making or buying 20 AH/Delve weapons, literally ZERO.

So, I'm supposed to quit playing 18~ jobs and make 1 maybe 2 weapons at most before I blow my brains out from absolute boredom grinding ANOTHER dynamis style kill everything that moves, OH HELL TO THE NO.
How about building 5 weapons and play 5 jobs? It's not all or nothing, you know. Also, with the elitism that is no doubt going to take place, all your empy weapons are gonna put you first, or near first in line for alliance invites. Also, if you had time to get all those empys, I don't think you're gonna have trouble finding time to make at least 10 delve weapons. After all, one weapon could be made in one day, assuming you had the day off (like a weekend) and got lucky on the KIs.

5 weekends for 10 weapons? Sounds a lot faster than whatever you spent on your empys!

Disclaimer:

Please note that this post does not mean I agree with all of SE's design choices.

[Karah]

How about building 5 weapons and play 5 jobs? It's not all or nothing, you know.

It really is about all or nothing.


Also, with the elitism that is no doubt going to take place, all your empy weapons are gonna put you first, or near first in line for alliance invites.

No, because the only shouts that happen are failure shouts anyway, being the best of the worst, still equates to loosing, and wasting time.


Also, if you had time to get all those empys, I don't think you're gonna have trouble finding time to make at least 10 delve weapons. After all, one weapon could be made in one day, assuming you had the day off (like a weekend) and got lucky on the KIs.

It's not about time able to spend, its about time SPENT, as in, can't get back. Yes I SPENT a lot of time on them, I don't want to SPEND more time doing things that NEGATE the time SPENT. Time CONTINUED would be acceptable.


5 weekends for 10 weapons? Sounds a lot faster than whatever you spent on your empys!

Disclaimer:

Please note that this post does not mean I agree with all of SE's design choices.

The time I spent on the empyreans was ME and ME alone, not 18 man content. To achieve a delve weapon in a day, you have to do mindless 18 man content, and pray that the other 17 are up to your standard, unlike everyone else I like to be THAT guy.
I'm hard pressed to find 17 people who are up to my standard for content, pick up group does -NOT- equal good. And at this point in the game I've got no interest in joining a linkshell to do 18 man content.

[nhackett]

I remember a lot of QQ about gear side-grades. It seems SE was listening to the community and gave us all something we wanted, but took it a bit too far. I'll be glad when we get another set of weapons able to compete with REMs, but right now REMs cannot compete with the new weapons. The new gear is pretty awesome so far, and I like where things are going. Alex is easier to get, we can solo a relic weapon, the game became difficult again, and new or returning players have a chance to jump right in and not spend years playing catch up. I have faith that SE will keep REMs relevant, because we have a voice in these forums. Keep up the good work devs; thanks for listening to the community. (and please let us keep REMs and maybe give us some new toys too)

[VoiceMemo]

Alex is easier to get, we can solo a relic weapon, the game became difficult again, and new or returning players have a chance to jump right in and not spend years playing catch up.

Alex is easier to get yes, but the issue lies within the 30,000 needed. Double the amount of items that relic(aprox 15,000, varies slightly between each relic) needs to complete. 30,000 of anything is alot. And since you can't turn them to an equivalent 100 piece, you either need 304 spaces to store them or turn them into the npc as you get them(assuming you are on the 2nd quest). Even with salvage V2, 30,000 takes some time.

[nhackett]

Alex is easier to get yes, but

Whoops, sorry for mentioning 'Alex.' I should have known that would just be a derail. :(

[VoiceMemo]

I reiterate what I said on my initial post back on page 22.

I believe it now comes down to SE's business model. They need to decide which will retain more players for the longest amount of time.

Whether it being the hard core players like myself, who have played this game for some 10 years now(never stopped payment during that time). Or the casual players who come and go.

So if they want new players and want to give them the ability to just jump in get everything, then this will be how updates will be from now on. If they wish to keep the loyal, long time players then they'll address REM.

The balls in SE's court right now, all we can do is speculate and discuss.

[VoiceMemo]

After reading these posts, clearly SE needs to do the following:

1. All new players, upon completion of registering a new account, are awarded a fully skilled and leveled 99 job of their choice.
2. Upon successful login, said player can check their delivery box for all of the latest and greatest weapons and armor.
3. New players have access to a "bank moogle" from which they will receive gil free of charge.

After all, we'd hate for any new player of a 10 YEAR OLD GAME, to be behind established players who have been playing this game for several years. I, for one, think it's awful for a player who's spent the time, effort and gil leveling up a craft to it's max to have amassed more of a fortune than a player who has been on for a week. And let's not get started on those RME weapons. Why should someone who has been playing for almost 10 years have an advantage over a new player? The travesty in such a thought is just... I can't continue, the thought saddens me. End sarcasm, now.


I must say this pretty much sums up the frustration of those of us who have played for so long. That if the game is going to try to be a WoW clone, what is the point of leveling from 1-99, shouldn't we all just be 99 since the only things to do are endgame from what SE is releasing. That events like crafting, fishing, etc don't seem to matter anymore. In my opinion, the nature of a MMORPG is that some will always be better than others in terms of gear. Such gear can be obtained 2 ways usually, either by hard work or dumb luck.

[Metaking]

please forgive me, i forgot VITALITY, this is actually vital to my point right there , take empyrean polearm dragoons as an example & some others jobs.THIS IS A VITAL TOPIC.FOR ONCE PLEASE LISTEN TO ME (US) FOR WHOEVER AGREE WITH ME just be glad your not being asked to trade in a dex and crit based weapon skill for one thats MND based and -20% attack >.> ..... i mean heck at this point blus and plds probly going to have to give up on sword and go to clubs... i mean its a mnd based weapon skill isn't that a penalty enough <.<

[Areayea]

I'm hard pressed to find 17 people who are up to my standard for content, pick up group does -NOT- equal good. And at this point in the game I've got no interest in joining a linkshell to do 18 man content.

from that statement right there... QUIT PLAYING A MMO, go play FFXII, that's what it was designed for. a massive multiplayer is meant for just that... massive multiplayer.

[Karbuncle]

from that statement right there... QUIT PLAYING A MMO, go play FFXII, that's what it was designed for. a massive multiplayer is meant for just that... massive multiplayer.

I personally enjoy how you made no attempt to debate the over saturation of retards in MMOs lol

[RushLynx]

That if the game is going to try to be a WoW clone, what is the point of leveling from 1-99, shouldn't we all just be 99 since the only things to do are endgame from what SE is releasing.

Um... at 75 cap the vast majority of new content was aimed specifically at lvl 75 characters... In fact, every expansion this game has ever gotten has been aimed primarily at what the max level at that time was... Meanwhile, it's been several years since I've messed around in WoW, but I'm assuming it hasn't changed a whole lot from a general perspective... and if that's the case, WoW has a lot more content aimed specifically at people between minimum and maximum levels than FFXI ever has... because the game's leveling system relies heavily on players doing things other than xp grinding...

In short, what the f**k are you moaning about exactly?

[Arkista]

Empyrean/Coin: Anyone hear any more if the Coin version is going to be useable @99 for the WS?

[SNK]

No its not, this is where you are wrong, it should not be like that.

Screw attack,thats for ppls that didnt invest 200M in a weapon that give you an authentic mind weapon skill, & lets speak about blue (MAGE) the melee part out of it is the result of ppls that doesnt put most efforts in having everything required for mana.

A mage usually use a club or a staff.Sword for blu should be considered as a bonus.Requiescat is special because it ignore defense like atonement,scourge doesnt & THATS EXACTLY MY POINT.

what you said is the error in the formula.

A good mnd set should enhance the gap of dmgs in between str & attack for multi hits & useless single hit that require 300 tp to somewhat do decent (On the aftermath part).Attribute shouldnt be a penalty,if anything it should be a sign of dedicated efforts that not everyone is able to reach, where/while others main stats aim forward decently easy gearing up.

Mnd been there for a long time for drks war & pld (Base stats, artifact, Sky armor) while its present it got ignored to make it easier on everyone to gear up.Mnd shouldnt be only for healers & even there they get half that broken by cure potency , just like blm get owned on int by elemental affinity, just like defense get owned by pure physical damages taken over vitality.

Want more examples?

attributes been mostly replaced aside for merited weapon skills.Blue mage have monsters correlation so does beastmaster? that used to be in game mechanic, & now most of it is forgotten because of armor that give you those way to bypass it.

Faithfull falcor can solo king behemoth because he take no dmgs from meteor. Is that monster correlation ? i dont think so this has nothing to do with it, its just an addition to the game to make the content easier, while on the other hand brand new stuff are near impossible if you dont change your gears, which in the first place shouldnt become obsolete.

While i understand the logic, this is far too deep to ignore. Bst use pets for them immunitys based from gears or not.

Do you think most ppls wonder ooo is an hyppogriph naturally eating HQ behemoths for breakfast in the wild?

No they just go from shared knowledge from earlier testing from others. Look farther than the bag you might find some seed to product better quality.

I quote (A good pld know when to sheet his sword) THIS AINT ABOUT YOUR STRENGHT & ATTACK because this is way easier to get with base dmgs on a weapon than to make out a gap in attributes that Square enix tossed to garbage a long time ago.

Change it all & that will prove people wrong & pick up curiosity. Give me a chance to prove that its not all about pulling hate, but more of a team work from different variables & strategies will once again become available as in older players get to enjoy what they didnt get to do from r/m/e since they got it wayyy after 75 for most of us & leave alone apoc because most know that it cure you & this aint about the dmgs input.

Cmon realize & valid my point please.I aint typing here to be argued i am looking for approval so it can reach square enix.

I am sorry i dont speak any japanese.

While the weight is all into damages & attack at the moment, i think se should allow more peoples to lead the evolution of the game somewhere else, making attributes matter more into a single hit weaponskill & make it soo it can do better results to create a different path for the peoples that chose to be different.

Wheres the anger if everyone can have it on a more open path, all the best damage dealers are into strength / attack & multi hits?

i feel bad for criitcal hits weaponskills users.Indeed they are good but very hard to modify for some jobs, so that said i hope players & square enix will consider that the possibilitys of the game following the new recipe can lead to a better end game result properly done.

Program it fine & then users will be able to choose a far better wideopen route that can equal the current flow of battles into split paths that will please newcomers as well as maat caps owners.


Dear all mighty god in heaven and hell. Please in the name of all that's holy, learn to hit the "enter" key and use paragraphs. It's like you don't expect people to breath when you write a huge clusterfuck of text like this.

Edit: Better yet since you may not understand how awful your writing looks like. I semi-fixed that for you.

[Dankstar]

this was probably mentioned before but solution seems simple to me...add more base damage raise Weapon skill damage and maybe add higher accuracy like it was done previously?

[Byrth]

Looks like they are going to upgrade the RME weapons, though they give no timeframe for the adjustments except that it will be after the next patch:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/112776-Dev-Tracker-Findings-Posts-%28NO-DISCUSSION%29?p=5713022&viewfull=1#post5713022

[Kojo]

Since they will still be lagging behind other weapons, I think this would be the best time to add post-ToAU R/E/C weapons.

[tyrantsyn]

So at a quick glance were looking at a 70%? damage increase and a added 20 points to att and acc. That's pretty nice. I would like to see more stats added to help flush out the ws on the weapon's. Some of them would benefit from that greatly.

[Return1]

Having the emp weaponskills unlock when you complete a 99 coin weapon is the greatest idea ever. Walk of Echoes will become wildly popular and increase gil circulation like Dynamis before and once again. This announcement is amazing if they follow through with it.

[SpankWustler]

I really like how that change would give WoE weapons their own unique purpose instead of just being uglier and crappier versions of Empyrean weapons. For a lot of weapons, the Empyrean weaponskill would often be the best option for raw damage regardless of which weapon a player wants to use.

Maybe farming WoE could even become a big new thing instead of just a "I'm up at 4 AM and I want to annoy some Japanese people" thing.

...which means the actual change will probably be something much, much more boring that does nothing to change the status quo. “As for me my only hope is for eternal nothingness and I hope it with all my heart,” and such.

[Kojo]

Having the emp weaponskills unlock when you complete a 99 coin weapon is the greatest idea ever. Walk of Echoes will become wildly popular and increase gil circulation like Dynamis before and once again. This announcement is amazing if they follow through with it.

I...actually hadn't thought about it that way, but you're right.

[Kimjongil]

I really like how that change would give WoE weapons their own unique purpose instead of just being uglier and crappier versions of Empyrean weapons. For a lot of weapons, the Empyrean weaponskill would often be the best option for raw damage regardless of which weapon a player wants to use.

Maybe farming WoE could even become a big new thing instead of just a "I'm up at 4 AM and I want to annoy some Japanese people" thing.

...which means the actual change will probably be something much, much more boring that does nothing to change the status quo. “As for me my only hope is for eternal nothingness and I hope it with all my heart,” and such.

This is not fair to 99 empy holders. Staff "myrkr" and club "Dagen" holders. You telling us we hold a 99 empy and now have to make a 99 WOE weapon to use it on better staves?

To give an example: the delve staff is 145 base dmg +20 int + 5 MAB. This staff is meant for nuking. With Sch you can do a T5 nuke and get 21-25 Tp a nuke in return. Four nukes equals Myrkr. And notice this is on a nuke staff.

Now lets look at empy staff: perhaps it will be upgraded to 145 dmg but it has 0 INT/MAB, but instead has +150-200 MP and an aftermath of double attack what your not meleeing with anyway. Empy club is in the same boat. 99 Empy's should be allowed to unlock the weapon skill as well.

Same would go for if you have a Mythic Sch staff. This will probably become a updated nuking staff. Then to enhance your job, you have to do a WOE weapon to unlock myrkr vs. Empy.

[Duelle]

Looks like they are going to upgrade the RME weapons, though they give no timeframe for the adjustments except that it will be after the next patch:
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/112776-Dev-Tracker-Findings-Posts-%28NO-DISCUSSION%29?p=5713022&viewfull=1#post5713022Sadness. I guess if the vocal group makes enough of a stink the devs will cave. *goes off to rile up the RDM forums*.

[detlef]

I'm actually hoping that any improvements to RMEs are pushed off a bit so that people can really get into the Delve content and progress there. As much as I like the idea of pushing my RMEs further, we all know that as soon as SE lets us improve them, that's all people will be interested in doing.

[SNK]

Having the emp weaponskills unlock when you complete a 99 coin weapon is the greatest idea ever. Walk of Echoes will become wildly popular and increase gil circulation like Dynamis before and once again. This announcement is amazing if they follow through with it.

I already 99'd the Hand to Hand but this will make me finish the Katana/Great Axe/Dagger/ & Sword.

[Ang]

Proposed damage ratings are still too low... Buramenk'ah is still 9 points higher than Excalibur.

[Soji]

Proposed damage ratings are still too low... Buramenk'ah is still 9 points higher than Excalibur.

I dont mind the REMS not being highest DMG, just make them competitive. That way they remain relevant, but still give us and those without something to shoot for. Also keeps Delve active.

The upgrade GKT in Delve is 192. the Boss GKT is 243. If Amano/Koga/Masa fall in between I think it would be perfect

I hope these changes come to fruition.

[Ang]

I would also like to add that many people in North America still play this game on PS2, please keep this in mind when thinking up ways to upgrade R/E/M weapons.

[FrankReynolds]

I would also like to add that many people in North America still play this game on PS2, please keep this in mind when thinking up ways to upgrade R/E/M weapons.

I dunno... They did a survey and judging by their actions since then, it doesn't seem like many PS2 are still in action here. I could be wrong, but I think North America has mostly moved onto the PC or the Xbox 360 versions. From what I understand, this is not the case in Japan where they are still pretty popular.

[xiozen]

I dont mind the REMS not being highest DMG, just make them competitive. That way they remain relevant, but still give us and those without something to shoot for. Also keeps Delve active.

The upgrade GKT in Delve is 192. the Boss GKT is 243. If Amano/Koga/Masa fall in between I think it would be perfect

I hope these changes come to fruition.

QFT... This.

At least, again, the very fact that we can keep our R/E/M's that we worked very hard towards attaining lvl 99, will still be relevant is what's important. Doesn't have to be top-gun dmg, but also keep in mind that the Aftermath effect itself does add effects which, in many instances (depending on the weapon) may translate into more dmg... so the 9 points mentioned may not even be relevant considering the additional effects.

[pretre]

sorry if I missed somthin did they mention if emp have to be 99 to get dmg upgrade or is it all lvls getting bumped up.

[woie]

anyone happen to know if you can get your HMP back that you have already handed in?

[Alerith]

I dont mind the REMS not being highest DMG, just make them competitive. That way they remain relevant, but still give us and those without something to shoot for. Also keeps Delve active.

Yes, but the issue is, if R/M/E aren't the best, and are only comparable, and Delve weapons take considerably less time to do for a better reward, then why bother with R/M/E at all?

[Alpheus]

anyone happen to know if you can get your HMP back that you have already handed in?

You cannot. You cannot withdraw any items for any trial after they have been deposited.

[SNK]

Sitting on a ton of WoE currency, Dice & whatnot. I wasn't sure if I was going to sell the excess or use them for myself. This update if it happens means I'll be living in WoE again for awhile.

[hiko]

Proposed damage ratings are still too low... Buramenk'ah is still 9 points higher than Excalibur.


Yes, but the issue is, if R/M/E aren't the best, and are only comparable, and Delve weapons take considerably less time to do for a better reward, then why bother with R/M/E at all?
not having the higher base dmg doesn't mean they aren't the best.

Relic have hidden procs, add effects, aftermath, relic WS DMG bonus (not always good, but that not new)
Empy have ODD AM
Mythic have OAT, JA bonus
RME are < delve boss weapon, not the 30k plasm one and we don't know how "easy" they are to get

[Firesong]

R/M/E weapons would need a major boost in damage to compete with the new weapons. New weapons have higher base damage, acc, atk, and some have other stats like haste/crit. With these added stats, R/M/E need to be increased to a point that they have at least 30~60 DMG base higher to still be the best of the best. Anything less just throws salt in the players wound after spending weeks or months or years getting these weapons. The new director of FFXI needs to learn a few things about FFXI and us players. We like a challenge but we WILL NOT STAND FOR getting our hard work and money thrown away on his stupid ideas. I did not make emps or relics or anything to have them become useless and I'm sure every person with an R/M/E feels the same.

SE, you need to think if you want to stay afloat as a company, you better start THINKING! At this rate, if I leave FFXI, I will never buy a game from your company again and I have almost all FF games from 5 and up to 12. Open your eyes dev team! LISTEN TO US AND DO NOT SAY WE DON'T KNOW HOW HARD IT WOULD BE TO DO THINGS OR HOW THE GAME WORKS!!!! MOST OF US HAVE BEEN AROUND LONGER THAN YOU HAVE SO STFU AND LEARN FROM THOSE THAT KNOW THE GAME AND KNOW WHAT WE WANT!!!! Its that simple... LISTEN TO YOUR PLAYERS! They are the ones that PAY FOR YOUR JOB!!! Without us, you have nothing. End of the line for your job. If you enjoy what you do, then start listening to what we say and DOING IT! Don't shoot yourself in the foot because your not using what you have in your head and thinking about it... Players will start to leave if you don't fix this within the month. Some have already left. FFXI will die in the next few months if changes aren't made and the person running the show doesn't stop destroying our game. SE may have made this game, but it has become OURS over the years. I don't care what the terms of use say, it is the players game. We are all loyal fans but I don't think we will put up with this BS for long.

[RushLynx]

Jesus people are still whining in here and threatening to cancel their subscriptions, as if anyone gives a damn? Grow the hell up, seriously... my faith in this community plummeted as soon as I started reading these threads.

[Demon6324236]

Jesus people are still whining in here and threatening to cancel their subscriptions, as if anyone gives a damn? Grow the hell up, seriously... my faith in this community plummeted as soon as I started reading these threads.Imagine you spent 2 years working on a PC, keeping it up to date, you have all of the latest things on this PC and you feel really great about it. Now imagine that tomorrow they release a new PC into the market with everything you have in yours, but upgraded so much that its almost twice as good as your current PC, and it costs 1 10th of your PC's original cost not counting all of the work put into it since. You would be furious probably, you spent all of that time, effort, and money, on making yourself an amazing PC, only for them to release this new one which out dates your own in every way with a much lower cost. The kind of feel is similar to how all level 99 RME owners feel, all of that time spent on a weapon that without warning was instantly surpassed by far in only a couple updates.

[Cljader1]

R/M/E weapons would need a major boost in damage to compete with the new weapons. New weapons have higher base damage, acc, atk, and some have other stats like haste/crit. With these added stats, R/M/E need to be increased to a point that they have at least 30~60 DMG base higher to still be the best of the best. Anything less just throws salt in the players wound after spending weeks or months or years getting these weapons. The new director of FFXI needs to learn a few things about FFXI and us players. We like a challenge but we WILL NOT STAND FOR getting our hard work and money thrown away on his stupid ideas. I did not make emps or relics or anything to have them become useless and I'm sure every person with an R/M/E feels the same.

SE, you need to think if you want to stay afloat as a company, you better start THINKING! At this rate, if I leave FFXI, I will never buy a game from your company again and I have almost all FF games from 5 and up to 12. Open your eyes dev team! LISTEN TO US AND DO NOT SAY WE DON'T KNOW HOW HARD IT WOULD BE TO DO THINGS OR HOW THE GAME WORKS!!!! MOST OF US HAVE BEEN AROUND LONGER THAN YOU HAVE SO STFU AND LEARN FROM THOSE THAT KNOW THE GAME AND KNOW WHAT WE WANT!!!! Its that simple... LISTEN TO YOUR PLAYERS! They are the ones that PAY FOR YOUR JOB!!! Without us, you have nothing. End of the line for your job. If you enjoy what you do, then start listening to what we say and DOING IT! Don't shoot yourself in the foot because your not using what you have in your head and thinking about it... Players will start to leave if you don't fix this within the month. Some have already left. FFXI will die in the next few months if changes aren't made and the person running the show doesn't stop destroying our game. SE may have made this game, but it has become OURS over the years. I don't care what the terms of use say, it is the players game. We are all loyal fans but I don't think we will put up with this BS for long.

OMG, I have 2 relics and I do not feel like you do..

[Lotto]

Jesus people are still whining in here and threatening to cancel their subscriptions, as if anyone gives a damn? Grow the hell up, seriously... my faith in this community plummeted as soon as I started reading these threads.

Don't worry, nobody cares about your opinion either.

REMs holders used to keep a lot of events alive (Dynamis, Voidwatch, Aht Urgan's battlefields) and now that they released new weapons all those events were killed in a single update.

[Dragoy]

Imagine you spent 2 years working on a PC, keeping it up to date, you have all of the latest things on this PC and you feel really great about it. Now imagine that tomorrow they release a new PC into the market with everything you have in yours, but upgraded so much that its almost twice as good as your current PC, and it costs 1 10th of your PC's original cost not counting all of the work put into it since. You would be furious probably, you spent all of that time, effort, and money, on making yourself an amazing PC, only for them to release this new one which out dates your own in every way with a much lower cost. The kind of feel is similar to how all level 99 RME owners feel, all of that time spent on a weapon that without warning was instantly surpassed by far in only a couple updates.

Hm... I think that analogy doesn't quite work too well since computer technology goes forward at the speed it does. Getting the latest and greatest parts are outdone and overpriced very soon indeed, while the middle-ground is usually the most sensible place to be.

If one didn't expect new things coming out, sure, they would probably be furious, which is more or less what happened here with the weapons in question.
I don't see that happening with computer parts which are known to rather quickly be replaced on the market. It's not that I don't get what you're saying, but I think these things don't quite compare.

Well, that's of course just how I see it. ^^

[Demon6324236]

Hm... I think that analogy doesn't quite work too well since computer technology goes forward at the speed it does. Getting the latest and greatest parts are outdone and overpriced very soon indeed, while the middle-ground is usually the most sensible place to be.True, but think of it this way, you build a relic, just like you build this PC, and then you upgrade it as new things come out, just like this PC, so you can keep it up to date without having to start from scratch. Now in the analogy, just like with RMEs, a new PC comes out, not even fully upgraded and all that, for a tenth of the cost, but its nearly twice as good as your current PC which you have spent years upgrading. That is what my point was, we have spent this time upgrading our stuff only for this new thing to come out and make our hard work and all the time we spent keeping our weapons upto date nothing more than a waste now. Granted we got use out of our upgraded PC/RME but in the end its become out dated so fast and we had no warning or say, it was dropped on us like a bomb.

[hiko]

True, but think of it this way, you build a relic, just like you build this PC, and then you upgrade it as new things come out, just like this PC, so you can keep it up to date without having to start from scratch. Now in the analogy, just like with RMEs, a new PC comes out, not even fully upgraded and all that, for a tenth of the cost, but its nearly twice as good as your current PC which you have spent years upgrading. That is what my point was, we have spent this time upgrading our stuff only for this new thing to come out and make our hard work and all the time we spent keeping our weapons upto date nothing more than a waste now. Granted we got use out of our upgraded PC/RME but in the end its become out dated so fast and we had no warning or say, it was dropped on us like a bomb.

yes but your PC shop just told you that they will upgrade your computer so it's better than the new cheap one.

[Rekin]

yes but your PC shop just told you that they will upgrade your computer so it's better than the new cheap one.
Not better just comparable and chances are you will have to fork over even MORE effort and then pay them.

[hiko]

they are not comparable to 30kplasm weapon but with boss drop and most people will never get those "comparable weapon"

and they are only comparable if you ignore relic proc, WS or aftermatch

[FrankReynolds]

Jesus people are still whining in here and threatening to cancel their subscriptions, as if anyone gives a damn? Grow the hell up, seriously... my faith in this community plummeted as soon as I started reading these threads.

Hi pot, It's me kettle... You're black.

Calling people immature... in a video game forum... in a thread about something that has nothing to do with you...

I think they have a word for that. Troll.

[Karbuncle]

they are not comparable to 30kplasm weapon but with boss drop and most people will never get those "comparable weapon"

and they are only comparable if you ignore relic proc, WS or aftermatch

WS is really only applicable for like 10 Weapons across all RME, and it won't matter as much since you'll be able to unlock Emp WS now, so using VS/Ukko's without the weapon will be possible. I know a lot of the power on those weapons is the aftermath, but the WS themselves is what made them super good... which is why sh*t like Farsha and the Polearm/Scythe are sitting in the gutter.

These new weapons i do believe will remain JUST below RME, and they'll probably release stronger weapons in the future, which i think is good. RME Are getting what we want, or Im getting what i want.. not to be the undisputed best by 40%, but not to be dumped 40% Behind some NM drop. Having RME in about 5-7% Range of the next best thing would be a matter of difference only a parse could pick up, and thats what they should aim for, and thats what I think they're going to get.

[FaeQueenCory]

Having the emp weaponskills unlock when you complete a 99 coin weapon is the greatest idea ever. Walk of Echoes will become wildly popular and increase gil circulation like Dynamis before and once again. This announcement is amazing if they follow through with it.
This... so much this....
I have never had any desire to try and make a WoE coin weapon... because, like you said, it's just a crappy empy... might as well just do the real thing for the WS.

And seeing the proposed changes... I like it.
A lot.
That delve 1h sword has a base dmg of 130, the relic would be boosted to 121 and empy would be 114... this is good because those two types of weapons, while labor intensive... are a LOT easier to make than the mythic... which will sit at 131.
Which is perfect imo.
Mythic is technically "the best". (though one would have to get a comp to parse the actual dmg comparisons... 131>130)
then Delve, Relic, and Empyrean weapons sit just a nudge below. (which given how much LESS labor is needed for all three of them... they shouldn't be equal... THOUGH due to how close these base dmg ratings are... they are all comparable to each other in terms of DD. Which is all anyone ever wanted.)

[Byrth]

Unfortunately, your post is essentially a necro from May when SE said they were doing this. About four months later, they have still not do it and look unlikely to include it in the September update.

[Richwood]

So many lies, anyone remember the new 1 hour abilities? Where? The new Summons, Where? I understand they need to make SoA work first, but they are sure kicking a l of of old dogs who have played for 8-11 years by not at least being forth coming with planed timed frames for other things promised. Yes I know, no more road maps; just have the decency when you bring a topic up that you at least give it a little update from devs "BUMP" forum action maybe once a month.

[FrankReynolds]

So many lies, anyone remember the new 1 hour abilities? Where? The new Summons, Where? I understand they need to make SoA work first, but they are sure kicking a l of of old dogs who have played for 8-11 years by not at least being forth coming with planed timed frames for other things promised. Yes I know, no more road maps; just have the decency when you bring a topic up that you at least give it a little update from devs "BUMP" forum action maybe once a month.

Didn't you read the post where Matsui said he couldn't reply to everything and that it was impossible to please everyone, but that doesn't mean he's not listening? Apparently a LOT of people were telling him that a box that turns colors when you stuff gil in it and a crab that sit's on your private beach were wayyyyy more important than those updates. I'm sure he'll get around to it if we're patient...

/sarcasm.

[Tinuviel]

Empyrean LVL90 vs WOE99 weapons?

Can anyone tell me if SE is considering to allow "access" of empyrean WS by having the empyrean weapon at less than lvl 99?

Considering the disproportionate challenge of upgrading empyrean from 90 to 99, it seems like SE is giving a bigger bonus to WOE weapon holders than to people who made a lvl90 version of empyrean weapons. Certainly, if the R/E/M plans unroll as I am hearing, I will be throwing all my empyrean weapons (6 of them @lvl90) into the garbage and going to WOE to farm the coin weapons.

Obviously, I won't make my empyreans into LVL99. I can buy the relic99 + WOE99 weapons for cheaper.

[Richwood]

I still am very update that the Devs have not at least kept us updated on their plans for lv 99 REMs. Any kind of update would be nice.

[Demon6324236]

I still am very update that the Devs have not at least kept us updated on their plans for lv 99 REMs. Any kind of update would be nice.You are very update? I would be upset if I were you, not update, in either case...


•Relic, mythic, and empyrean weapon revamps
•Unlocking empyrean weapons skills
•Artifact revamps
Sorry to keep you all waiting on this without giving a time-frame, but for the above three points we are currently making preparations to implement all of them simultaneously in the version update to take place in fall.

You no longer need to be update, they posted this back on the 21st, nearly 2 weeks, yet no one seems to realize this I think. Either way, here you are, click the arrow next to the quote and read it all if you wish, it has some nice info.

[Byrth]

I can't find the translation for the post I'm looking for on BG, but iirc the last time they talked about this in depth (JP only post), they did indeed say that 90+ Empyreans or 99 WoE weapons would grant WS access. SE's vision for FFXI seems to have changed dramatically in the last ~2 months, though, so who knows what they're thinking now.

[Luscia]

I can't find the translation for the post I'm looking for on BG, but iirc the last time they talked about this in depth (JP only post), they did indeed say that 90+ Empyreans or 99 WoE weapons would grant WS access. SE's vision for FFXI seems to have changed dramatically in the last ~2 months, though, so who knows what they're thinking now.

Where as I like seeing this information, since I have been wondering about it myself (my gun is sitting on its final VNM cause I wanna know if I should make Arma or go for coin) why was this information only passed in a Japanese post? This is a topic that effects a lot of players and it is personally the topic I have wanted to hear about the most.

[Demon6324236]

why was this information only passed in a Japanese post?Why was there a show or video that was made only in Japanese that explained a bunch of new things that had to be found on Youtube, and took like 2 weeks for us to get an English rundown on? Its simple, we know where their priorities are.

[pretre]

I hope that this is the case and really its only sensible way to unlock emp ws if rem revamp is 99 only, my ls all have lvl 90 emps and proly none of them have access to the funds needed to 99 as im sure many people are I same position me included. I have my woe greataxe sat there eagerly waiting to breath ukkos fury life into my bravura 99, I cant wait. anyone know when fall update going to be?

[Kincard]

There's stuff like the skill they added onto post-Adoulin weapons. With skill on the weapons alongside all the other things it affects (Spell interruption rate, magic accuracy/damage...I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up adjusting it so that it also affects things like skillchain accuracy) wearing anything underneath the maximum ilevel weapon provides ridiculous downsides.

Consider a while back when originally they made it sound like they wanted to make it so that RMEs would be sidegrades to the best weapons in the game. It seemed like a reasonable compromise, but now with all the stuff they obviously shoved into the game in the eleventh hour without putting any thought in for the long term effects even if they had finished drafted up ideas for the RME redesign it's completely pointless to release it now, because they'd be releasing a bunch of updated weapons that nobody uses.

Really I've given up on them giving any reasonable update to RMEs just because of how poorly thought-out this whole content level thing has been, especially in regards to weapons. Honestly it's not just about the weapons anymore, the whole game is really out of whack as a result of it IMO.

[FrankReynolds]

There's stuff like the skill they added onto post-Adoulin weapons. With skill on the weapons alongside all the other things it affects (Spell interruption rate, magic accuracy/damage...I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up adjusting it so that it also affects things like skillchain accuracy) wearing anything underneath the maximum ilevel weapon provides ridiculous downsides.

Consider a while back when originally they made it sound like they wanted to make it so that RMEs would be sidegrades to the best weapons in the game. It seemed like a reasonable compromise, but now with all the stuff they obviously shoved into the game in the eleventh hour without putting any thought in for the long term effects even if they had finished drafted up ideas for the RME redesign it's completely pointless to release it now, because they'd be releasing a bunch of updated weapons that nobody uses.

Really I've given up on them giving any reasonable update to RMEs just because of how poorly thought-out this whole content level thing has been, especially in regards to weapons. Honestly it's not just about the weapons anymore, the whole game is really out of whack as a result of it IMO.

Yes, iLevel is about the dumbest concept they've ever implemented in this game and will be almost impossible to ever balance correctly going forward.

[Demon6324236]

So how about basing the damage of lvl 99 weapons used by lvl 99 chars, on the DIFFICULTY of obtaining those weaps. By the way this would put coin and magian weapons in a higher bracket than Delve NM weaps, since magians and coin weaps take weeks or months to get and delve weaps don't.You are confusing difficulty with time taking. Fighting a hoard of level 95 mobs in Dynamis for 2 hours every day for 2~3 months is not on the same difficulty level as fighting Tojil, Dakuwaqa, or Muyingwa. Given, yes, they are much more time taking, so are Magian weapons where you go slaughter hoards of level 65~90 mobs for a trial, or doing WoE, or making a Mythic, or camping lottery NMs. But in the end, if you want the power of a weapon to go by difficulty, and not time taken, then Delve weapons are where they should be right now, Tojil, Dakuwaqa, and Muyingwa are all harder than ADL, Pandemonium Warden, VW NMs, or WoE bosses.

That being said, I look forward to my weapons being upgraded, I simply hope they give them either a few updates as SoA progresses, or they give them enough power to remain relevant for the rest of the time this game is around.

[Demon6324236]

Difficulty is how hard something is, I can kill level 75 and 95 mobs with my eyes closed, Tojil however will rip my ass apart in less than 30 seconds.

Time taking is simply how long something takes to complete, I can do a Tojil in 30 minutes, but a Relic would take me months to farm.

Very different things. If you want more difficult things to be stronger, then they need to make RMECs harder than Delve weapons, at the same time, if you want more time taking things to be stronger, then they should simply upgrade RMECs, yes. What you should really be saying is you want whatever takes the most investment to be best.

[pretre]

I love the way both you want the same things but are rowing with each other about the reasons behind wanting the same thing. I think we can all agree the important thing is to keep the weapons that take ages which makes them hard to make on top of the weapons that take 30 min and drop from nms that are hard to kill. so sayeth the pretre

[Demon6324236]

Do I agree that they need upgraded? Yes, do I agree they should be upgraded because they are in any way difficult or hard? No, I believe they should be upgraded because of the large amount of investment that any player puts into making one, not difficulty, but rather the act of perseverance it takes to achieve such a weapon.

The issue with upgrading them is that as it has been said before, if they increase gear levels beyond what they are now, but put RMEs at the current level cap of roughly 120 then it will be meaningless. They will be cool for a month, next month level 125 weapons will come out which blow these away and have a ton more accuracy, so we will use those, and just learn our Emp WS if our merit one sucks like WAR, then move along.

[Richwood]

Why is there still no new news since May? Can the Devs give us a bone please, let us know the progress of things?

[Demon6324236]

•Relic, mythic, and empyrean weapon revamps
•Unlocking empyrean weapons skills
•Artifact revamps
Sorry to keep you all waiting on this without giving a time-frame, but for the above three points we are currently making preparations to implement all of them simultaneously in the version update to take place in fall.

For the artifact equipment revamps, we are planning to make it so you can bring artifact equipment up to the standards of geomancer and rune fencer artifact equipment. Hang in there for more information related to the quests for this.They have actually, just no one sees it, this is from August 21st.

[pretre]

I saw it and I appreciate the fact they said something about it but its still lacking in info. would be nice if they said if there going with original idea of dmg just below boss weapons or not or any info really, all we can do still is take guesses using 3 month old posts as a guide which could be no were near there new plans as they have said "were discussing the REM issue" a number of times since the sword stats were posted, but to be honest I do feel happier knowing this update is soonish, or maybe its because GTA V SOON!!!!!!!!!

[Demon6324236]

I now its not much, but it is an estimation of when we are going to be getting it. With any luck, we will hear more amount what exactly will be happening between RMECs & AF as well sometime soon. I just wanted to point out that we are not completely without hope, and its not as though we have heard nothing about them since may, we have had word, its just not very descriptive on what exactly will be happening. Trust me, I want to know as badly as you do what the details of the update will be, I really rather hope my Excalibur becomes better than my Buramenk'ah, then I can off-hand Bura & feel like a badass again. In all honestly, a lot of questions to be asked about them, any changes besides DMG? How much Skill? What do we need to do to get them? But for now, its at least something, a time frame, and while that doesn't mean much with SE, its better than simply staying quiet in my opinion.

[Demon6324236]

Were seriously arguing over the definition of a word at this point... Look, all I was saying is that it can take a lot of time, effort, and determination, but to me that does not make it hard or difficult, to be hard or difficult it has to be something that you can not always the winner, something which requires skill & strategy to win. Like I said, the Excalibur & Almace I made as well as my Attack Sword, 3 PDT Swords, 2 PDT GA, PDT Club, 3 PDT Axes, and the Ice staff I helped my GF make all took time and effort, yes, but none of them were difficult in the least due to the fact every one of them involved me fighting something weak as the goal except for Goublefaupe, and the occasional Bria or Sobek I soloed. As I said, I know they are time and effort taking, but they are not difficult, and not hard, that's all I have been saying, and its the last thing I am gonna say on the subject, because all were doing is arguing what a word means basically, and that word is, difficult.

[Rustic]

I love the way both you want the same things but are rowing with each other about the reasons behind wanting the same thing. I think we can all agree the important thing is to keep the weapons that take ages which makes them hard to make on top of the weapons that take 30 min and drop from nms that are hard to kill. so sayeth the pretre

Sure- if you want to kill advancement save through a huge chain of content that's gone by the wayside.

Giving an update to RME? Absolutely fine and indeed, awesome. Making them the top of the food chain again? No. They should be upgradable to similar levels as a legacy kudo to oldschool players, but making people jump through the same hoops endlessly? No.

And that doesn't even take what an upgraded RME will do for a dual-wield job.

[pretre]

Sure- if you want to kill advancement save through a huge chain of content that's gone by the wayside.

Giving an update to RME? Absolutely fine and indeed, awesome. Making them the top of the food chain again? No. They should be upgradable to similar levels as a legacy kudo to oldschool players, but making people jump through the same hoops endlessly? No.

And that doesn't even take what an upgraded RME will do for a dual-wield job.

so what lvl would you suggest they get raised to if not top of the food chain

[FrankReynolds]

aren't RME and Delve weapons all content that has gone to the wayside anyways? I mean is there some secret way to get them without having beaten all the content long before? You at least have to be in the zone to get most of this stuff, which implies that you are at least buying the items from people who got bored of the content long ago.

[Rustic]

so what lvl would you suggest they get raised to if not top of the food chain

Twohanded ones to a match with the top content, offhandable ones to the level of an offhand top-end weapon from the endgame of Adoulin. Bonus if the weapon in question gets to be raised multiple times to, say an ilvl 113-116, then to whatever we end up with at the end of Adoulin later. Above and beyond means -every single player has to grind old, obsolete content to be endgame material-. There needs to be a balance. RME should remain useful, but Adoulin should give similar alternatives lest we end up with people having to hammer through the entire RME cycle just to be able to play with the "big boys". Otherwise, we're sticking a sign on top content for expansions that says "Don't have RME? Screw you.".

[Demon6324236]

See here's the thing, with this player base you have 2 options, Make RMEs the best, people will make RMEs, or do not make RMEs the best, and no one bothers. If you make them slightly better, just barely better than everything else, you will have a few people do them but not that many, and at the same time, we all know that people will exclude others based on it, just like people do now with Oats, Senbaak, and so on. You cant make them not the best and expect anyone to ever make a RME again besides the special use ones like Apoc or Yagrush.

[detlef]

Why can't we just have it so that RMEs require doing current endgame to upgrade? Put RME back on top (or close to it) but make it so you have to do Delve and WKR to upgrade them. RME people are happy, everybody else is getting Oats, Upukirex, and other fantastic pieces of gear out of the deal.

[Demon6324236]

The problem with that is that in order to get one, say, a Relic... You have to first goto Dynamis, get all your currency and other items, then goto do trials around the world, then go back to Dyna for some specific NMs, then kill ADL a few times, then finally you are up to doing the trials for Adoulin. In the case of Emps, go kill random NMs, VNMs, then Aby NMs, then VWNMs, then finally your up to Adoulin. I think the issue is that you have to do so much back logged shit to get to Adoulin stages that it becomes an issue, and in all honestly, I understand why a lil bit.

[detlef]

That's a completely different complaint isn't it? You're saying that the issue is the difficulty/annoyance of doing old content to make an RME.

[Rustic]

Why can't we just have it so that RMEs require doing current endgame to upgrade? Put RME back on top (or close to it) but make it so you have to do Delve and WKR to upgrade them. RME people are happy, everybody else is getting Oats, Upukirex, and other fantastic pieces of gear out of the deal.

Not correct. You then have people going "RMEs with upgrades only" for new content instead, meaning that everyone and their grandma has to go through the same sadistic process of pushing through an RME weapon to get into endgame, because Adoulin gear is second-best in that scenario and item level is king- and you've just made RME upgrades the top dog.

And why the HECK are we making players jump through the massive hoops of that sort of thing any more? While you're at it, shall we get Abyssea AF "+3'd" so you can keep wearing that too and have the best armor of all, and the heck with having Adoulin relevant to begin with?

[Demon6324236]

While you're at it, shall we get Abyssea AF "+3'd" so you can keep wearing that too and have the best armor of all, and the heck with having Adoulin relevant to begin with?Just to say, I actually hypothesize that it will end up getting +3ed. I assume AF will be +2ed in order to match Adoulin standards as the GEO & RUN AF are in power, since after all, they are talking about AF revamps, and since we know RUN & GEO will be getting Relic & Empyrean gear as well, it makes sense that if that's what they do, the others will follow suit. If so, it would also make sense on why RUN & GEO do not have AF+1, since their default AF is powerful enough to fit the standard Adoulin set, and as such, needs no further upgrade, while the other AFs are caught up to that very same standard.

[detlef]

Not correct. You then have people going "RMEs with upgrades only" for new content instead, meaning that everyone and their grandma has to go through the same sadistic process of pushing through an RME weapon to get into endgame, because Adoulin gear is second-best in that scenario and item level is king- and you've just made RME upgrades the top dog.

And why the HECK are we making players jump through the massive hoops of that sort of thing any more? While you're at it, shall we get Abyssea AF "+3'd" so you can keep wearing that too and have the best armor of all, and the heck with having Adoulin relevant to begin with?You can preface a post with "I disagree" instead of "not correct" and come off a lot better. How is “X weapon only” any different from any period in FFXI? How is it different from Empy-only VW or Delve weapon-only plasm runs? No matter what you do, as soon as weapons of a certain class become commonplace enough for group leaders to reasonably fill the alliance, people will begin to demand them.

Also, what kind of hoops are you talking about? If you’re talking about Empy 95-99 then yes that’s unreasonable. Likewise, Mythic to 75 has been discussed to death. But relics to 99 are a reasonable long-term goal for anybody. Long term goals that can be completed on the side are the most crucial aspect missing from the game right now.

Also, the point has been made dozens of times, but legendary weapons have always been different from armor. While people expect and are prepared for armor to be obsoleted periodically, nobody could have seen Delve weapons coming. The game revolved around making these weapons for the two years prior to Adoulin.

[pretre]

Twohanded ones to a match with the top content, offhandable ones to the level of an offhand top-end weapon from the endgame of Adoulin. Bonus if the weapon in question gets to be raised multiple times to, say an ilvl 113-116, then to whatever we end up with at the end of Adoulin later. Above and beyond means -every single player has to grind old, obsolete content to be endgame material-. There needs to be a balance. RME should remain useful, but Adoulin should give similar alternatives lest we end up with people having to hammer through the entire RME cycle just to be able to play with the "big boys". Otherwise, we're sticking a sign on top content for expansions that says "Don't have RME? Screw you.".

yea I befine with this so long as the weapon went up as the top weapons did

[FaeQueenCory]

B) People like long-term building, challenges, etc. I never complained once about building RME, until SE added forefront weaps that are more powerful and are basically the SOA version of a mercenary's knife ie. a lolconquestpoints weapon. I do rieves with NQ empy 99 and miss the mobs, or hit them for puny damage, but if only i used a forefront weapon that i can build in 20 minutes, I would out-damage and out-accuracy my NQ 99empy that took like 16 months hard work to obtain. That is the problem. If people want to use SOA weaps, thats great, no complaints, hope they have fun. But why those 30-minutes-to-obtain killing weak baby mobs bayld weaps make my 99 NQ empy look totally gimp, is a gigantic FAIL by square-enix, it is a logic fail and a player-hating thing to do. And thats just forefront weaps, I'm not even starting about empy v. delve weaps time-effort & dmg/delay, which is even more brainless and seems like they actually hate people who worked hard pre SOA.
It's not that they hate the players.... it's just an.... out-of-touch oversight.
Matsui has a vision of a tiered highlevel post 99 system for Adoulin... One that I for one find very fun and rewarding... (skirmish armor augments aside... cause... screw those!)
And while this is all good and fun and all that... He overlooked the human condition: nostalgia and empathetic ties.
Why do people who make REMs feel so put off from having them become trash instantly?
It's not just "I spent 3mo on this, why does that take only 1hr!?"... it's actually more the result of having to have built those weapons.
Because those weapons took a looooooong time to make, humans' brains will associate them with the fun they have while playing the game while building them. So they form a sentimental attachment to them....
And THAT is why REM ppl got so pissed off.

it's not "you made my 3mo weapon that I worked my ass off trash by a weapon it takes 2hr to get"
it's "you made my friend that I built from nothing worthless by some cheap floozie you get for no effort".
This is what is really at the heart of the REM controversy.

And I can't say if Matsui just never took into account the human condition... or if he just didn't care...
But the update is coming soon (I think it's scheduled for the end of the month/next month's update).
Though I would rather see just the "99-2" Afterglow REMS get iLv'd (106ish maybe? actually make the 99s 103ish too.) and then introduce 3-5 more magian trials to bring them up to 120 or wherever the devs want the iLvs to cap at. EX: 99A<106> to 99A<109> to 99A<113> to 99A<120> or whatever
But don't make them some BS like 30000 somethings. Make it reasonable like the 90-99 elemental trials. (15 geodes, 40 geodes, 15 -ites. reasonably done.)
Because it's not just the whole "this weapon gives me this WS" or even "this weapon makes this weapon skill 50% more damaging"....
It's that this weapon has been my friend through the hardest things I've had to face... and I want them to be with me until the end.
(which, IMO is kinda the whole POINT of the Magian Trials that updated RMs from 75 to 99 and 99-2.)

[Rustic]

You can preface a post with "I disagree" instead of "not correct" and come off a lot better. How is “X weapon only” any different from any period in FFXI? How is it different from Empy-only VW or Delve weapon-only plasm runs? No matter what you do, as soon as weapons of a certain class become commonplace enough for group leaders to reasonably fill the alliance, people will begin to demand them.

Because X weapon should not be "weapon that takes ages to catch up to endgame in a completely different area when everything else is plasm farming and bayld". Now, if they also did AF +3 the same way, making it a similar long-term goal in such areas? We're all equal then. Equally miserable, but equal. The heavier the burden of getting what's considered "required for endgame", the worse things will become. Look at it.


Also, what kind of hoops are you talking about? If you’re talking about Empy 95-99 then yes that’s unreasonable. Likewise, Mythic to 75 has been discussed to death. But relics to 99 are a reasonable long-term goal for anybody. Long term goals that can be completed on the side are the most crucial aspect missing from the game right now.

You mean sitting there and stabbing ADL repeatedly for vials of marrow easy? Again, I'm not talking rendering RME obsolete, I'm talking making RME's useful but not -required- for endgame.

Let those who had them, update them to make them useful again. Let those that didn't NOT have to go through the same song and dance to face top content.

[Rustic]

A) Because many people have already jumped through all those hoops, only to wake up one morning to discover their RME is now gimp compared to a colonisation rieve forefront weapon you can obtain in 30 minutes fighting too-weak mobs.

"They stopped that hideous, agonizingly long process of grinding up a weapon that's good enough to do content as it's released."

"THAT SUCKS! EVERYONE ELSE SHOULD BE FORCED TO DO THE SAME AGONIZING GRIND!"

As for time spent as being a required investment, come back when you were busy camping Ridill before you had such wonderful things like "pop items". Clearly, because it took years for that, Ridill should have been upgraded to be superior to your mere 16-month Empy weapon, as it is a legendary weapon from the eldest of HNM's. Clearly, the endless butthurt of waiting 21-24 hours at a time to hope that Nidhogg didn't spawn instead, fighting to claim the beast amidst the hordes of darters and praying that it dropped and I got the lot was so grand an endeavor that I should wield it's constantly reinforced blade for eternity, besting all others.


What? That wouldn't be fair?

Your time spent is not an excuse to NOT make the process more efficient for those who came after.

[Raksha]

Since no one is going to be happy either way, just make base RMEs buyable with ~200k plasm like current boss weapons.

People like me who spent months making a relic won't be upset because now i can just go and buy a conqueror to go along with it!

[Soraishin]

you know thats actually not a bad idea, with the declining server populations having the base forms of RME's buyable with 200k or more plasm isn't a bad idea at all, would still take a bit of time to gather the plasm but far more effective than /yelling for hours on end for a duo partner for dynamis or a group to go tackle assault missions for. You sir are pure genius. But at the same time i think all the extra work needed to take that RME to 99 should remain the same. Just getting the base lvl 75 weapons are hell to get with less people actively playing. Well i'd exempt empy weapons from this though as they're already easy as hell to get compared to the Relic and Mythic weapons.

[detlef]

Because X weapon should not be "weapon that takes ages to catch up to endgame in a completely different area when everything else is plasm farming and bayld". Now, if they also did AF +3 the same way, making it a similar long-term goal in such areas? We're all equal then. Equally miserable, but equal. The heavier the burden of getting what's considered "required for endgame", the worse things will become. Look at it.

You mean sitting there and stabbing ADL repeatedly for vials of marrow easy? Again, I'm not talking rendering RME obsolete, I'm talking making RME's useful but not -required- for endgame.

Let those who had them, update them to make them useful again. Let those that didn't NOT have to go through the same song and dance to face top content.Let me ask you two things. First, regarding the type of player who can’t be bothered to make an RME for his raiding jobs. What’s this player doing now?

-Is he happily swinging around his Upukirex, Tsurumaru, or Oatixurs? If so, that player almost certainly has the means (money, connections, and supporting gear) to make and effectively wield an RME. In addition, that player probably has nothing to do right now outside of Delve and Skirmish and is very likely looking for side projects.
-Or is he getting by with Rigors or Uguisumaru? In this case, that player will be behind no matter what. Making relics or Delve weapons the best will have no impact on him, he's still using something vastly inferior to both.

Secondly, I’m not saying ADL is easy or hard, but on my server, there is a guy who is bazaaring marrows for 7m. Are you saying you can’t make 35m gil over time for a long term project?

My main point is that somebody who can get Delve weapons can make a relic. That same person can also make a Mythic (it's not as hard as you think it is). And that same person can *probably* make an Empyrean but will rightfully complain about the level 95 and 99 stages.

[Rustic]

Let me ask you two things. First, regarding the type of player who can’t be bothered to make an RME for his raiding jobs. What’s this player doing now?

He's me. Regularly help the LS with Abyssea mobs, since even Skirmish armor and weapons makes me a remarkably durable DD compared to the folks that are behind me. And patiently picking up COR gear for the point where there's a Delve call, at which point I'll be picking up one of those fancy new weapons. My Mandau days were pre-update, on another account.

I did plenty of time in Dynamis back when I was an RDM or COR main. 5 years ago. Why the heck should I go through 2008 content to play 2013-era areas? I'd rather spend a few million -buying- a Delve slot with a group than the time (itself worth money) and Gil on a bunch of marrows for a mythic. Or even simply gleefully getting my LS-mates up and running here in Adoulin so they can have a go at it themselves, if they so desire.


-Is he happily swinging around his Upukirex, Tsurumaru, or Oatixurs? If so, that player almost certainly has the means (money, connections, and supporting gear) to make and effectively wield an RME. In addition, that player probably has nothing to do right now outside of Delve and Skirmish and is very likely looking for side projects.

And if he wants to bottom feed instead, more power to him. Heck, I spent an afternoon helping one of the linkshell's RUN farm Ise hearts. And if they put upgrade quests in for RME's, I'll help with those too- but I do NOT want to see the same weapons be "best in class", expansion after expansion. When gear was more sidegrade than literal level-up, that was one thing. Now, having the capacity to actually do endgame be such an ardous, long road is counter to the whole process.


My main point is that somebody who can get Delve weapons can make a relic. That same person can also make a Mythic (it's not as hard as you think it is). And that same person can *probably* make an Empyrean but will rightfully complain about the level 95 and 99 stages.

Or they can simply get in on a Delve run for far less time and effort and play in endgame. And that's my point. While I don't feel that outright negating previous efforts is right, I also feel that shoving the entire history of endgame into a player's face and saying "YOU MUST DO EVERYTHING WE DID TO ADVANCE, OR WE SHALL SHUN THEE" is plain ol' wrong.

Can they do it? Sure. Should they HAVE to do it to keep up? F-no.

[detlef]

Are you completely current with Delve gear?

[Return1]

Throwing the RMEs out the window was the equivalent of throwing the meter out in favor of the furlong. It's stupid.

The RMEs served a purpose as a long term goal and a standard that all other gear was compared to. For a game thoroughly rooted in lateral progression for the better part of a decade, it served its purpose perfectly.

Now that the standard has been thrown out, gear has pretty much no meaning. All the gear you have now will be eclipsed in a few months and become 100% useless, as will be the gear that eclipses it. It's the equivalent of a rat running the wheel, there's no accomplishment or long term goal. It's the consequence of adding rapid vertical progression 11 years into the lifespan of a game whose whole existence and identity sprang from it focusing on lateral progression. If the players of FFXI wanted vertical progression they would have been playing playing games that have done it far better for years or they would play Diablo ladders.

So now we have no standard for gear, no stability, and a small dev team that can't support vertical progression by mere fact they're too slow in putting out new content to keep up with players demands. So now every three or for months we get a week's worth of new content. On top of that the pre-existing content that a majority of the players couldn't 100% complete in a span of years, is now virtually obsolete.

If this game dies it won't be because of FFXIV, the game is not built for the same audience and fatigues quickly (but that's another post), the blame for FFXI's condition falls squarely on Matsui's team's lack of intelligence. They clearly didn't see the simple fact that they can't maintain a glacial pace at best, let alone a pace that can support such rapid vertical progression.

[FrankReynolds]

They tried the "Let's make everything come from delve" approach. It didn't work. Diversity yo.

[Glamdring]

They tried the "Let's make everything come from delve" approach. It didn't work. Diversity yo.

Totally agreed. When the game was capped at 75 we had multiple end-game paths-granted thanks to some add-ons like ToAU adding mythics, CoP adding sea, etc. Because of that we had multiple gear paths we could take with large amounts of sidegrade items, i.e. you could use sky, relic, AF+1, etc., it was a gear swappers heaven because options abounded. But from the release of Abyssea onwards those choices have narrowed, and with SoA we were originally pigeon-holed into a single path to the delve stuff, to an extent that is still true, the skirmish stuff-augmented-is excellent, but the delve gear still generally out-classes it, although some jobs-like my bard-really don't see much benefit from anything except a bit more durability. SE needs to keep expanding the options for side-grade stuff; if nothing else it gives us some options that might create something viable for the jobs that really aren't seeing much from current end-game, and that can-done properly-keep all 22 jobs viable. It also keeps the game going for us to have multiple things to work on.

The one thing I DON'T want to see though is a bunch of exclusive paths needed to be followed to obtain end-game gear. Make it ALL purchaseable in some unified way, like letting us get plasm from more than one path, and open up the older content rewards, some are still "required" items even now (aegis, ochain, daurdaubla, etc.) With the general lack of interest in the content those are obtained from they are getting harder to get than when they were the goal items in game. Example, the heavy metal plates for my daurdaubla are rarely for sale, when you can find them they are 100k+ each, and noone is really interested in doing VW anymore, but considering the drop mechanics there you NEED a good-sized group. The same with most of the items along the path, to get multiple colorlous souls needs a proc that a soloer will have trouble hitting. And lets face it, when 12 people in your shell are after delve items but only you are after the harp, doing delve is going to win out as the choice of how to spend the shell's time, even though they do want you to have the harp.

[Afania]

See here's the thing, with this player base you have 2 options, Make RMEs the best, people will make RMEs, or do not make RMEs the best, and no one bothers. If you make them slightly better, just barely better than everything else, you will have a few people do them but not that many, and at the same time, we all know that people will exclude others based on it, just like people do now with Oats, Senbaak, and so on. You cant make them not the best and expect anyone to ever make a RME again besides the special use ones like Apoc or Yagrush.

There's a difference between best weapon being 1% ahead of 2nd best, or best weapon being 30% ahead of 2nd best.

Make REM 30% ahead of 2nd best option, the game would be REM only or don't play that job.

Make REM 1% ahead of 2nd best option, players using 2nd best weapon still perfectly capable of playing the job and do the content.

Making REM 1% ahead of 2nd best is the best way to keep everyone happy, those who likes REM has incentive to build one, and other players without REM can play the job too.

This game will NEVER become REM only if REM is 1% ahead of 2nd best. Not everyone want everything totally best of the best only to be 1% ahead, when you don't NEED to be 1% stronger to beat the content.

But if best weapon is 30% ahead, and dev balanced the content based on that fact, then that's how current game is, best weapon or don't come.

Now the game really isn't much better than REM only era, if you're new/returning player, you still can't make progress cuz you don't have a delve boss weapon, and you can't get one without a delve pt.

Ppl are over reacting about REM issues, it's ass easy to solve the problem if dev bother to try.

[Afania]

Newsflash. When you spend 10 whole years of your life playing one videogame, it is no longer in the 'casual hobby' bracket it goes into the 'your life' bracket, since you might live for 60 years, you spent 1/6 of your life playing FFxi. So it is a major part of your life. If, like me, you spent almost a full year grinding WOE bosses for single coins/lims/dice for your NQ99 empy, and you were very happy with it (even though it was gimp compared to HQ empy and RMs of course, which I didn't mind at all coz I don't have the time or gil to farm those), only to be told your NQ99 empy that you spent a big piece of your life obtaining, is unable to hit or damage lolmobs in rieves, while a cheap pos bayld forefront weapon can damage them just fine, is an insult to me. Yes people are sentimental and attached to their weapons, if they spent years of their lives building it why should they not feel emotionally connected to the weap. That is not the problem, the problem is SoA arrived, and unlike all previous expansions, the new weapons completely dwarfed everything that preceded them, SoA it is not the normal FFxi progression at all.
And then another point, forefront weapons came out and were originally just slightly more powerful than a 99NQ empy (which was wrongheaded in itself), but then a few weeks later SE patched forefronts overnight, making them way more powerful with the skill+ bonuses etc. So if they can add DMG and skill+ to forefronts overnight as they did, why didn't they just do that to all RME's when SoA came out. Why make people run around missing rieve mobs with their empys, we could have had them patched from the SoA launch.

REM is more than just "I spent 10 years grinding them, and I love it cuz it took so much time" sort of thing for me. I feel sad for those who can't understand it and have to insult others about it. For me it's an item with personality and background story, which makes this game more attractive overall. Without it FFXI is tasteless and I'd better spend my time/money on another video game title.



Difficulty is how hard something is, I can kill level 75 and 95 mobs with my eyes closed, Tojil however will rip my ass apart in less than 30 seconds.

Time taking is simply how long something takes to complete, I can do a Tojil in 30 minutes, but a Relic would take me months to farm.

Very different things. If you want more difficult things to be stronger, then they need to make RMECs harder than Delve weapons, at the same time, if you want more time taking things to be stronger, then they should simply upgrade RMECs, yes. What you should really be saying is you want whatever takes the most investment to be best.

Killing tojil is easier than finding enough ppl to do salvage/VW for empy/mythic. That makes empy/mythic harder to get than Oatixur. Difficulty is more than how hard the NM actually is, but how hard to accomplish them. Killing tojil is, well, just 100x easier than building a 99 empy or Mythic.

[pretre]

/sigh it makes me really sad to see that SE has managed to really upset the player base that they really needed, by that I mean the people that were loyal to the point that were still here even after all this crap, im totally up for new content being added as in the past each and every time its brought new life to the game. iv been on the game 6 yrs not as long as some I know but I have seen lots of addons in that time all have been great for the game, the diff in my opinion is they broke from the working tradition of bring out new content and a new super weapon to go with it, non of this would of occurred if there was just a fourth super weapon that was of a same lvl an difficulty to obtain. I know its a weird thing to say but I find it very hard to believe that a dev team that works for a company as big in the world of rpg/mmo as SE is could get it so wrong by accident, I don't know why they would do this but I think no one let alone the real pro's would be stupid enough to think that everything in the game prior to this addon should be made pointless and the stupid effort weapons they been pushing us towards since they made dyna solo farm should be /laughed at to. my point is that they must of had a motive that they have not shared with us and was just hopeing that we would all just shut up and follow like good sheep or maybe with the player base dropping like flys there plan is occurring round us and there is some reason were not seeing that they would want us off the game [just a guess I have no reason I can think of why they would want this]. the thing I find most sad is that if intentional or not personally I think this game for most hardcore players is now beyond saving. just in my little FF world I run 3 lses 2 of which are totally gone now due to people leaving and my last ls is mostly people who turn on the game to say hello an do events with people they know and don't care about progression at all and sadly even that lses numbers are starting to drop. in my opinion possible the best game ever ruined by not thinking or not caring about the effort people put in to it. GTA V!!!!! out soon hopefully SE can fix but I don't see me on this underpopulated game much longer as the buzz that I had about this awesome game fof 6 yrs has gone

[Byrth]

Arguments for disposing of RMEs:

1) It limited the Dev team's ability to enact their vertical progression plan in the weapon slots
a - Those slots are determines the majority of any DD's damage.
b - It is a bit of work to maintain 104 weapons (52*2) during vertical progression and add upgrade quests for them, so keeping them relevant and updating them is apparently not feasible for FFXI's dev team.
c - There is a considerable gap between pre-Adoulin second-best weapons and RMEs, but weapons within that gap would still have been seen as second-best to RMEs, which isn't vertical progression.

2) The commonness of RMEs during the Voidwatch days was a substantial barrier to endgame entry for any casual player, which essentially forced these people off melee jobs. There is no reason to believe that this trend would not continue in Adoulin.




Arguments against permanently disposing of RMEs:

1) RMEs rewarded player efforts in a large chunk of content (Dynamis, Abyssea, Voidwatch, Salvage, ZNM, VNM, Einherjar, Nyzul Isle, Assault), which was important for several reasons:
a - Casual players had a good source of income farming whatever currency they were comfortable with.
b - It helped players that missed out on a specific event (like getting Captain in Assault) gather people.
c - It dramatically increased the amount of relevant content for "hardcore" players and gave them many more potential activities, which is important because it kept them playing and stopped things from getting repetitive.
d - It was a major economic drive, and now a large portion of the playerbase that does not care about gil.

2) RMEs are the most interesting weapons in the game both to obtain and to use, so their irrelevance makes FFXI a poorer place.

3) After 8+ years of superiority, RMEs were seen as a permanent reward for massive effort. When they became easier to get, many people underwent a slightly less massive effort and obtained them. A lot of these people were so pissed at the decision to outdate RMEs and the lack of RME updates that they quit. Some might return if RMEs were updated.





Analysis:
I think that SE decided to dispose of RMEs for reason #1 (top) probably while only considering consequence #2 (bottom). It was the simplest solution to a complicated problem, but they got a lot more blowback than they expected.

If I had done it:
I would have added a "weapon damage" stat to equipment and placed substantial boosts there while releasing very competitive sidegrade weapons. Specifically:
* I would have made sidegrade weapons not have hidden effects, but give them higher base damage and higher raw DPS.
* They would be balanced such that things like relic procs, aftermath, etc. would even it out so the "sidegrades" were only minorly superior to RMEs before gear.
* Base damage on equipment would benefit the RMEs more than the sidegrade weapons, because they start with lower base damage, and if you had good enough equipment then your RMEs would remain the best weapons in the game.

Results:
- This solves problem 1a, because equipment can now matter however much people want.
- This solves problem 1b, because RMEs never need to be updated.
- This solves problem 1c, because such sidegrade weapons and new equipment could be scaled such that RMEs are essentially invalidated every patch until the user obtains the best equipment.
- This solves problem 2, because the gap between an RME player and a "sidegrade" player would be small under ideal situations, and would specifically not depend on the weapon slot so it would be harder to discriminate against sidegrade players.

- This still allows old RME-building content to remain viable.
- This maintains the relevance of RMEs.
- This allows players that have put in their time to maintain their investment by doing current content.

[detlef]

He's me. Regularly help the LS with Abyssea mobs, since even Skirmish armor and weapons makes me a remarkably durable DD compared to the folks that are behind me. And patiently picking up COR gear for the point where there's a Delve call, at which point I'll be picking up one of those fancy new weapons. My Mandau days were pre-update, on another account.

I did plenty of time in Dynamis back when I was an RDM or COR main. 5 years ago. Why the heck should I go through 2008 content to play 2013-era areas? I'd rather spend a few million -buying- a Delve slot with a group than the time (itself worth money) and Gil on a bunch of marrows for a mythic. Or even simply gleefully getting my LS-mates up and running here in Adoulin so they can have a go at it themselves, if they so desire.

And if he wants to bottom feed instead, more power to him. Heck, I spent an afternoon helping one of the linkshell's RUN farm Ise hearts. And if they put upgrade quests in for RME's, I'll help with those too- but I do NOT want to see the same weapons be "best in class", expansion after expansion. When gear was more sidegrade than literal level-up, that was one thing. Now, having the capacity to actually do endgame be such an ardous, long road is counter to the whole process.

Or they can simply get in on a Delve run for far less time and effort and play in endgame. And that's my point. While I don't feel that outright negating previous efforts is right, I also feel that shoving the entire history of endgame into a player's face and saying "YOU MUST DO EVERYTHING WE DID TO ADVANCE, OR WE SHALL SHUN THEE" is plain ol' wrong.

Can they do it? Sure. Should they HAVE to do it to keep up? F-no.


Are you completely current with Delve gear?You didn’t respond to this, so I’ll ask again. Are you completely current with Delve gear? If you’re sporting an Izhiikoh for your THF main, then great. If you aren’t, then you’re telling me that going after the best weapons in the game isn’t actually as important to you as you say. Whether RME weapons or Delve weapons are the best will never matter because you’re not going to get them anyway, and you simply don’t want others to have nice things.

[FaeQueenCory]

Newsflash. When you spend 10 whole years of your life playing one videogame, it is no longer in the 'casual hobby' bracket it goes into the 'your life' bracket, since you might live for 60 years, you spent 1/6 of your life playing FFxi. So it is a major part of your life. If, like me, you spent almost a full year grinding WOE bosses for single coins/lims/dice for your NQ99 empy, and you were very happy with it (even though it was gimp compared to HQ empy and RMs of course, which I didn't mind at all coz I don't have the time or gil to farm those), only to be told your NQ99 empy that you spent a big piece of your life obtaining, is unable to hit or damage lolmobs in rieves, while a cheap pos bayld forefront weapon can damage them just fine, is an insult to me. Yes people are sentimental and attached to their weapons, if they spent years of their lives building it why should they not feel emotionally connected to the weap. That is not the problem, the problem is SoA arrived, and unlike all previous expansions, the new weapons completely dwarfed everything that preceded them, SoA it is not the normal FFxi progression at all.
And then another point, forefront weapons came out and were originally just slightly more powerful than a 99NQ empy (which was wrongheaded in itself), but then a few weeks later SE patched forefronts overnight, making them way more powerful with the skill+ bonuses etc. So if they can add DMG and skill+ to forefronts overnight as they did, why didn't they just do that to all RME's when SoA came out. Why make people run around missing rieve mobs with their empys, we could have had them patched from the SoA launch.
Um.... Rude?
Especially because... what you're describing... is exactly what I said.
0_0
(and in which case you were quoting me to bring attention to your agreement... I apologize for my misunderstanding.)
You no longer have a "this is a freetime thing" concept tied to your REM... Because you spent such a long time building it (which is classically shown to make a human give more value to something they make over something they just buy) you then have ascribed value to it.
This ascribed value is the source of the REM being just tossed aside backlash.
And that is valid.
With the obsolescence of these items which by their very nature cultivate a sense of worth to those that build them from nothing. (even Relics, which IMO are the least player-invested building until you start bringing the lv75 up to 99)
It was a severe oversight to not have these be upgraded to match (ala the example of the rieve gear) or by introducing a few more trials to boost them to current end-game standards (ala the way they were updated with the level cap being raised to 99).

Personally, I'd prefer an iLv adjustment to make the "99-2"s be like 103-106 and then a trial for 109 and then another for 115 or whatever.
Or even have the 99-2s be 109 (cause AF1 weaps are 109.... so... yeah....) and then add more from there.
I think that would be a better way of handling things than making them iLv 110 now.... and then two months down the road introducing iLv128 weapons.
(cause then you can add another trial when you introduce those new iLv weapons that would instantly trash the iLv110REMs.)
Also: any post 99-2 trials would need to be something not dumb. none of this 30000 item shenanigans. >:|

[Rustic]

You didn’t respond to this, so I’ll ask again. Are you completely current with Delve gear? If you’re sporting an Izhiikoh for your THF main, then great. If you aren’t, then you’re telling me that going after the best weapons in the game isn’t actually as important to you as you say. Whether RME weapons or Delve weapons are the best will never matter because you’re not going to get them anyway, and you simply don’t want others to have nice things.

Nope. I already did the RME rat race on my first account (Mandau) and have a linkshell in which fully 50%+ of the players aren't through Abyssea yet. What's important to me at this point is getting the Adoulin newbies through to the point where I can enjoy slapping Naks around with them. If for some reason that doesn't work out, I've got a standing offer to be KI'd through on Delve runs for a few million Gil, at which point I can kit myself out after a few plasm-farming runs. I've got a full set of Skirmish +1/+2 gear at the moment, since that's where my linkshell's up to and frankly, I enjoy doing things with them rather than mostly strangers. Heck, I'm helping someone with an 85-90 Masamune in the LS right now, just like we did Isgebinds till I started getting simulated snowblindness.

I've already DONE the endgame for years. I can drop some Gil and get into it again when I please, but frankly I'm waiting to see if I'm going to have to do another damned RME to be in it to the top. If I don't have to spend the inordinate amount of time and sweat making one because S-E doesn't simply put them back on the top of the chart again, I won't.

[detlef]

So you don't have your Delve wins, but you can pay some gil for a merc group to carry you through it at some point in the future. And you think it's best for the game if the most powerful weapons can be obtained this way. Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

[Demon6324236]

Well when you think about it, for a Relic you can pay some gil for the currency, do some minor annoying work to get it finished & to 95, then pay some more gil for Marrows, then your at 99, and will probably be able to pay people to do whatever your 120 trial is for you too. In the end, gil can buy both things, if that's the problem you see.

[detlef]

That's a fair point, but 10m to leech Tojil is hardly on the same scale as making an RME (even if you didn't farm a single thing). It's just too easy.

[Demon6324236]

I think RME need to be upgraded, I mean the amount of work they take even if paid for with gil is far higher than that of any other weapon or item in the game.

[Rustic]

So you don't have your Delve wins, but you can pay some gil for a merc group to carry you through it at some point in the future. And you think it's best for the game if the most powerful weapons can be obtained this way. Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

That's correct, I can. The reason I'm not packing Delve gear right now is I'd rather do it with friends. But the option is available.

And yep. Because the other option for newbies is to pay, and pay, and pay some more- oh, and pay again if they want to have an endgame-appropriate weapon that matches up with their fellows as rather than going through one step of that process, they get to deal with it six, seven, ten times as much instead just so they can contribute with their friends. In content that is only accessed specifically to grind through said gear.

This needs to stop. A process that requires you to chew through ancient, outdated content to gain gear appropriate to the current expansion is inappropriate, especially in an age where item level literally IS your effective level. Giving players the option to upgrade old gear, absolutely wonderful. Requiring them to go back multiple expansions to be effective in the current one no longer is.

[detlef]

You're essentially advocating leeching instead of joining a group and contributing your fair share. Well, that's one way to get through the game.


And yep. Because the other option for newbies is to pay, and pay, and pay some more- oh, and pay again if they want to have an endgame-appropriate weapon that matches up with their fellows as rather than going through one step of that process, they get to deal with it six, seven, ten times as much instead just so they can contribute with their friends. In content that is only accessed specifically to grind through said gear.The way things are going, it appears that SE will always make an easy-to-get, "endgame-appropriate" weapon for players such as yourself. You shouldn't feel threatened by RMEs, you'll still be able to get an awesome weapon that you can use to farm Abyssea or whatever.


This needs to stop. A process that requires you to chew through ancient, outdated content to gain gear appropriate to the current expansion is inappropriate, especially in an age where item level literally IS your effective level. Giving players the option to upgrade old gear, absolutely wonderful. Requiring them to go back multiple expansions to be effective in the current one no longer is.It seems like one alternative gives players tons of events to participate in regularly while your alternative would have players do a single event, cap out on gear, and have nothing to do. I wonder which one is healthier for the game. The only reason you don't see a problem with this is because you don't even do Delve, the single event that still matters for weapons.

[Rustic]

You're essentially advocating leeching instead of joining a group and contributing your fair share. Well, that's one way to get through the game.

What, you mean the part where I want less of a series of people getting merc'd through old content so they can do new content?


The way things are going, it appears that SE will always make an easy-to-get, "endgame-appropriate" weapon for players such as yourself. You shouldn't feel threatened by RMEs, you'll still be able to get an awesome weapon that you can use to farm Abyssea or whatever.

>implying I'm threatened by RME's

I already -did- a Mandau once on my previous account. It was such a disagreeable process that I don't want it to be a requirement for Adoulin-era play.


It seems like one alternative gives players tons of events to participate in regularly while your alternative would have players do a single event, cap out on gear, and have nothing to do. I wonder which one is healthier for the game. The only reason you don't see a problem with this is because you don't even do Delve, the single event that still matters for weapons.

Let's see. Was that a relic weapon, where you sit there farming currency off mobs I can solo in Skirmish gear without blinking? That's not too bad, up to farming Umbral Marrows or so to get 99. It'll just take hideous levels of time. At 99, you're going to need some help.

Maybe it was a Mythic weapon, waiting days for a potential HNM beastman king to pop so I can actually proceed with the process and the chokepoint of Alexandrite that's only going to get worse with time?

Perhaps it's an Empy weapon, where I can kill the same NM 60+ times to level it up? Won't be too bad till the end, of course. Then you're stuck trying to get stuff like 1500 plates from top-end Voidwatch NMs.

That isn't entertainment, it's slow torture. Aside from the items needed to upgrade a weapon, everything from that content is functionally useless. Now, you update that content along with making RME's useful, then we're talking a success, but RME progress as it stands is nothing but a huge, useless timesink if it becomes needed to do endgame, as whatever is getting upgraded is going to be a step up from the sadist's chamber that is L99 (insert weapon/instrument/shield of choice here).

By comparison, the process to an endgame weapon is now bayld -> skirmish -> Delve, something that is current content only. And that's how it should stay- endgame content should be built on a series of progression that comes from the same expansion as is current, not require the player to make endless detours through old content just to be able to do what everyone else wants to. The only time this shouldn't happen is if old content is updated to be part of new content.

Which is hasn't. And won't be, considering the dev team.

[FrankReynolds]

use the enter and tab key or GTFO.

[Darwyn]

I've been playing this game for about 3 months now.. (maybe less) and I've got to say some of the longest playing players have the WORST ideas. To me as a new player who has player many other games the idea of there being a set definite best equipment in the game is a simple way of setting goals. In my opinion REM should be the best equipment in the game bar-none with the caveat it of being job specific. If new content comes out a new upgrade path should open for REM allowing them to be on par with such content. That way people aren't just flocking to one area and we have more ppl actually playing the whole game and not just Adoulin. (I haven't even been to dynamis....). Getting Adoulin gear make the game.. "yawn" and it's frustrating when you spend so much time getting to 99 and Empy only to find out that you can't hit ANYTHING until you spend some more time grinding Bayld to get some essentially crappy equipment just to get by in Adoulin.

That's the part that completely sucks about the game is having a feeling of achievement completely splattered by a new area in which all you're previous work is for naught. I personally think that if you spent the time and effort to get empy +2 you should at least be able to hit and kill things in Adoulin. Delve gear can still be the best all around gear but empy should be the best job specific gear.

Honestly I bought the game with all the expansions and I've spent most of my time in Adoulin and Aby. The reason is because no one has a reason to go back, give ppl a reason and us noobies will have someone to help us out. When u're a noob no one helps you out unless there is something in it for them. I honestly was ready to quit when I went to adoulin the first time.. I'm extremely happy because I had empy +2 gear on my monk (after literally begging ppl to help me), I thought to myself I'm ready for Adoulin and I set forth to start, after 2 mins of exploring I get agro and the first mob kills me.. WT(curseword). Then when other players told me I had to do carrier runs or reives (boring stuff) just to get bayld to buy NEW equipment simply to stay alive.. I was about to just cancel my subscription. I didn't but I stopped playing for about a week.

Oh also, I love it when people shout for parties for stuff I need in Adoulin but then get shot down because I don't have the best Delve gear.. It makes no sense to require a player to have the gear they are trying to get in order to get it. (That sentence doesn't even make sense) Essentially I shouldn't need Delve gear to get Delve gear.. it's dumb.

[Tptn937]

The month is over half way over with. When are we getting notes on upgraded weapons? I'm worried content will be implemented without player feedback.

[Afania]

The month is over half way over with. When are we getting notes on upgraded weapons? I'm worried content will be implemented without player feedback.

Knowing SE, they're probably going to fuck up on RME again :)

Personally I think the best way to make everyone happy is make RME weapon situationally useful, and still keep delve weapon good. If you're really into that job, you get RME AND delve weapon. If you don't care about the job as much, don't bother with RME. One very good example is apoc, it's a very useful(and fun) weapon if you want to lowman on DRK, real hardcore DRK would make one, but it's by no means a must have for DRK.

Making REM on par/a bit subpar/a bit better than delve weapon is pointless, the game would go back to SoA vertical gear progression crap. One thing that's fun about FFXI, is that you have tons of gears to choose from depending on situation.

[FaeQueenCory]

Knowing SE, they're probably going to fuck up on RME again :)

Personally I think the best way to make everyone happy is make RME weapon situationally useful, and still keep delve weapon good. If you're really into that job, you get RME AND delve weapon. If you don't care about the job as much, don't bother with RME. One very good example is apoc, it's a very useful(and fun) weapon if you want to lowman on DRK, real hardcore DRK would make one, but it's by no means a must have for DRK.

Making REM on par/a bit subpar/a bit better than delve weapon is pointless, the game would go back to SoA vertical gear progression crap. One thing that's fun about FFXI, is that you have tons of gears to choose from depending on situation.
I was having a similar discussion with a LSmate of mine...
They were of the opinion/want that because Ochain was mentioned to be an effective iLv150, that Adoulin is gonna bring us all the way to 150.
I.... disagree... and pray that I am right that Adoulin will only go as high as CL20, ie iLv119 (120).

Because if it DOES go to 150.... the moment the other fractures get added, which I think will remain at 120 level, but my LSmate believe will be higher....
REMs will be jank again.
And then we're back to square one AGAIN...
And even worse.... The DELVE ppl who don't want REMs back because they are afraid of being out of the spotlight again... will be shoved out of the spotlight right along with the REM ppl... because.... 130 Delve!

hopefully I'm right in my understanding that Adoulin is only going to 120.... that all the Delve fractures will be 119iLv drops... and that Delve-Bird and Delve-Tree will offer the missing weapon types. (as it stands we have 119 h2h, dagger, sword, axe, polearm, great katana, and... crossbow. But The Nakuaal's in WKR2 give us a club, great axe, scythe, and... another axe... so it stands to reason that their Delve versions will give the 119 version of those weapons.)

This next update is what will really make or break the game completely.
Succeed in reaffirming the work of REMs, but making Delve2 >120.... = failure
Succeed in reaffirming the work of REMs, but making Delve2 =120, and thusly show that Adoulin will not step farther than 120... = sustainability

EDIT: Ironically... ALL of this could have been solved with one thing: a single magian trial/REM to give them an appropriate iLv and/or making the 99-2 REM have an iLv.
Then, should the game progress higher than 120, there can be more day1 magian trials.
This whole iLv thing... while interesting... it's not been done before.
Many people feel that it's broken or "halfassed"... but I am fine with it.
I think it's because I'm a scientist and this kind of "oh crap, we didn't take into account X thing gotta fix that" is kinda the basis of my entire profession. (specifically thinking about that huge update where all iLv weapons got an overhaul and we got all that fake skill and stuff... That kind of change is very normal in labwork.)
So for me, this kind of updating is normal.
But I can understand why this type of creation would bother people.
Outside of labwork... this kind of thing never happens.

[Tennotsukai]

Sounds like this next update is a killer update. We're getting new spells, maybe abilities, RME upgrades, and so much more. Honestly, imo, I really hope they are taking a chill pill on monstrosity and focusing on what most people want worked on.

Not to offend those that love that new system, but the main game is still pretty messed up. I can't get over how many spells and ws's are still broke after 4 years. I'm really saddened by Tourbillion not working if no one has noticed the last few months that I have been begging SE to fix.

[Demon6324236]

I doubt the next fractures will be level 113 & 119 weapons again, they will push up the levels, why? Simple, because of the WKs. Original WKs were level 106 gear, new WKs were level 115 gear, by that example, we can expect fractures to go up by about the same amount probably, 10ish levels. I would be somewhat surprised if they actually kept it at 119, because the increase from WK to Delve would be only 4 levels.

[Psxpert2011]

Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui

You're probably thinking "if that’s the case, then don’t announce anything," but because I thought it wouldn't be good to not let you know anything until plans were finalized I decided to make this post. (I've been under so much stress I feel like I'm going to get an ulcer >< But I know I shouldn't be complaining.)

...

I apologize, but unfortunately I am unable to answer anything at this point in time. One of the reasons I felt I should not have mentioned anything during a stage where various things have not been finalized yet, despite prefacing it that this is non-finalized information, was following up on individual specific questions based on supposition.

Being silent because it's not possible to answer right now would remove the whole purpose of why I posted, but on the other hand, continuing to entertain suppositions would cause expectations to grow even more wild. As a result of this, things that I didn't promise would turn into promises, and I would like to avoid making it seem like we are breaking promises.

...

This is the New Producer or the "New Final Fantasy XI"?? After six months out I thought I'd try the new content I've missed out of and stayed up to date about. The after-math of Abysea has left the state of the MMO in ruin(and mostly due to the credit of FFXIV:ARR).

Should I give Matsui a chance and see how FFXI holds up? The whole direction Vanadiel is going is leaving me in disarray. Critiques are pointing to "gear focused content" being the cause of the whole transformation of FFXI.

Is there more story, a better expansion leading FFXI into the future for the better? What's going on here!? (o . o)?

[FaeQueenCory]

I doubt the next fractures will be level 113 & 119 weapons again, they will push up the levels, why? Simple, because of the WKs. Original WKs were level 106 gear, new WKs were level 115 gear, by that example, we can expect fractures to go up by about the same amount probably, 10ish levels. I would be somewhat surprised if they actually kept it at 119, because the increase from WK to Delve would be only 4 levels.
I think they will, because there are missing weapon types. 119 staffs, clubs, GS, etc.
Of course there's the 117/8 crafted ones... but that's not the same.

And I KNOW people would be crying foul if the GS dropped off a facture Mega Boss was like 130 or whatever... while all the oats mnks/pups got were the dinky 119.... blahblahblah.
keeping the upper limit 119 (CL20) makes it so no one type is favored over any other.

Hopefully, keeping it 113/119 split will also favor new aug paths for the other fracture gear.
-PDT, +Cure%, +fast cast, etc, etc, etc
There's so much that could be an augment path that the ones we currently have are woefully basic.
BUT for the first implementation, basic is good. Because basic is what let's you "test the waters".

And as for ppl being jealous or not.... Of course they will be. I know that I'm certainly jealous of BST and DRG getting 119 gear for their pet's levels while PUPs and us SMNs are left at 113... (Though I think there was a post recently about how they have a cap at like 115 or something... idr I only glanced at it.)

So I think they're gonna just have 119 be the cap for Adoulin, and have different fracture bosses drop different types of weapons and there will be different synth 117/8 weapons... so by the 100% completion of Adoulin.... there will be at least 2 117-119 weapons to choose from depending on your taste and playstyle and whatnot.
I also think this would play into their whole "we want to make more gear choices" thing they're doing atm.

[Leocon]

I may be wrong, but I seem to recall a road map from a few months back showing Delve boss weapons being the highest level gear in their iLv system... I'll try to find it if I can, but it's pretty much been my understanding that iLv 119 is currently the highest level they have planned for gear, meaning most stuff will likely be side grades for a while. While I do agree we should've never actually left level 99, considering we were only that level for what, like a year and a half I think it was? They could have easily branched out more from where we were... But alas, the die has been cast, so now they're just trying to make up for their mistakes it seems heh.

Edit: Found the chart. It's in a post by Camate on this page.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/34679-Item-Levels?p=448309#post448309

Shows level "20" being the highest planned iLv for gear, being in reality 119 of course. It's always puzzled me why people were freaking out that current gear was going to be gravely outdated in each update following with them already stating iLv 119 was the current planned cap. ...Other than the fact this is XI's Dev Team we're talking about heh, but that's a discussion for another thread.

[Demon6324236]

The reason is simple, they said that 119 was the cap for the time being, not that it was the be all end all cap for all of Adoulin, and since the newer WKs are a higher level than the old, and the old Delve content was based off of its corresponding WKs, it only makes sense the cap will once again rise.

[FrankReynolds]

And I KNOW people would be crying foul if the GS dropped off a facture Mega Boss was like 130 or whatever... while all the oats mnks/pups got were the dinky 119.... blahblahblah.
keeping the upper limit 119 (CL20) makes it so no one type is favored over any other.

That is exactly why I fully expect the new stuff to be iLevel 130. They almost never do what makes sense and / or consider the repercussions unless there is a huge stink cloud about it in the forums after the fact.

Prepare yourself for upgrades to RME that bring them to level 119 and new weapons that are level 130 in the same update.

[FaeQueenCory]

The reason is simple, they said that 119 was the cap for the time being, not that it was the be all end all cap for all of Adoulin, and since the newer WKs are a higher level than the old, and the old Delve content was based off of its corresponding WKs, it only makes sense the cap will once again rise.
Japanese is an awkward language.... It's SUPER nuanced.... and "for the time being" might be a good enough translation... It carries different weight there. Because Japanese is weird like that.

I really hope that "for now" would be better translated "for this expansion's length"... because otherwise:

That is exactly why I fully expect the new stuff to be iLevel 130. They almost never do what makes sense and / or consider the repercussions unless there is a huge stink cloud about it in the forums after the fact.

Prepare yourself for upgrades to RME that bring them to level 119 and new weapons that are level 130 in the same update.
SHUSH!
We don't want this.........
It's what I am most afraid of happening...
But surely the lesson has been learned...
:(

[Camate]

Hello,

Below is a comment from Producer Akihiko Matsui.



Matsui here.

I’d like to once again thank you all for the feedback on relic, mythic, empyrean, and coin weapons.
I’ve read over all of the feedback, both for and against, and have taken it into consideration.

As it would appear that pretty much all your feedback has been posted, I will be closing this thread and working on the below plans: (Most of it is from my original post)


Perform revamps on relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons.
The weapons to be revamped are the level 99 versions of the above mentioned weapons including the non-afterglow ones.
Shield and instruments will not be included in these revamps.
Revamps will not be performed multiple times in short intervals like Trials of the Magians.
The stats after the revamp will make it so they can be an option amongst the other powerful weapons.
We will continue to look into unlocking the weapon skills from coin weapons further.


In regards to coin weapons, as we are only at the stage where we are considering the basic direction to do this, we will continue to look into this due to the fact that it needs additional scrutiny.

Once we’ve solidified all the plans for the weapon revamps and the result of our discussions for coin weapons, I will be sure to let you all know.

Thank you very much.

[Byrth]

Yaaaay! It would be great if we could get some example weapon stats to look at in the meantime.

[Camate]

Hello,

Apologies for the delay for information regarding the relic, mythic, and empyrean weapon revamps.

Below is a message from Producer Akihiko Matsui in regards to the current status.



Matsui here.

I'd like to make an announcement about the relic, mythic, and empyrean weapon revamps that are scheduled for the November version update.

There have been no changes to the plans I outlined previously for the revamps.




The weapons to be revamped are the level 99 versions of the above mentioned weapons including the non-afterglow ones.
Shield and instruments will not be included in these revamps.
Revamps will not be performed multiple times in short intervals like Trials of the Magians.
The stats after the revamp will make it so they can be an option amongst the other powerful weapons.



Specifically, RMEs will become item level 119, and in exchange for keeping the special stats as they are we will be scaling back the damage value slightly to balance it.

To upgrade them we will not be making a new Trial of the Magians, and we'll be making adjustments so that certain content is not overcrowded for this by having multiple ways to obtain the items you need to upgrade these weapons.


Additionally, Matsui made another comment regarding the other aspect of these plans which involved the unlocking of empyrean and Walk of Echoes weapons’ weapon skills.



Matsui here.

I'd like to make an announcement about the unlocking of empyrean and Walk of Echoes weapons’ weapon skills, which is scheduled to take place in the November version update.

The plan is to maintain the basic idea that you unlock these weapon skills after completing a certain process, but we will be easing this process and aim to increase the weapon skill choices beyond those that you acquire through merit points by allowing a lot of players to unlock these special weapon skills.

The unlocking will apply to Walk of Echoes weapons that have reached level 99 and empyrean weapons that have reached level 90. Additionally, we will be easing the trials for Walk of Echoes weapons and reducing the work needed to make them.

Specifically, we will be increasing the routes for trials and adding routes where NM battles and seals are not needed. On the other hand, as there is a huge difference in difficulty between the new routes and the current routes, we will be easing the current routes and reducing the amount of seals, coins, Devious Die, and Liminal Residue needed by more than half.

The latter adjustment is for those of you who have already progressed quite a ways with your Walk of Echoes weapon. Though I apologize that if you have already traded in items more than the amount needed after the adjustment you will not be able to get them back.

The method for unlocking the weapon skills will not be via a new Trial of the Magians trial, it will be a different method.

[Demon6324236]

Specifically, RMEs will become item level 199
What?



<_<;

[Leocon]

I...really hope that "Item Level 199" is a typo heh...

[Demon6324236]

Ochain is supposedly ilevel 150 or some such as it is already so who knows...

[Byrth]

He meant item level 119. That's what it says in the JP version.

[Leocon]

Thank you for the heads up Byrth... Seemed like too large of a jump even by SE's standards lol.

[Unctgtg]

"To upgrade them we will not be making a new Trial of the Magians, and we'll be making adjustments so that certain content is not overcrowded for this by having multiple ways to obtain the items you need to upgrade these weapons."

So what does this mean, they are not making a new trial to upgrade but yet they say no overcrowding to obtain these and upgrade. I am assuming meaning like dynamis and other areas? Frankly if its another collecting of items, SE can kiss my butt

[Demon6324236]

So, I understand that the base DMG rating will be lower, the real question that need be asked now seems to be, will the Skill be the same as other 119 weapons? I hope the skill stays the same as on other 119 weapons due to the fact that it would be highly damaging to the weapons to lose out on a stat as vital as accuracy. So long as we don't lose any skill, this seems great!

[Ophannus]

Damn 199 would have made Dragoon's Wyverns...quite strong!

[Jerbob]

Development time needed to glue silly stats to these weapons could have been spent more helpfully elsewhere, if development time hadn't been wasted through creating an item level and progression system that players do not want in tandem with the spending of even more development time in the creation increasingly convoluted methods of patching the vast, gaping holes in the mechanics that support said system that players still do not want.

Then we'd not only have fully functional REM weapons, as we have had in the distant past, but - even better - we'd have a nice big jar of sugary development time that could be amply spread over something hot, freshly toasted and delicious to make it even more delicious. Such as literally anything else ever created by anyone in the entire history of Vana'diel. Or perhaps - and I might be getting a bit extreme here - some of the long-awaited, promised features that people were actually looking forward to.

We quite like those.

[FallenE]

Frankly if its another collecting of items, SE can kiss my butt

I think SE does mean collecting items:

"we'll be making adjustments so that certain content is not overcrowded for this by having multiple ways to obtain the items you need to upgrade these weapons"

[Camate]

I...really hope that "Item Level 199" is a typo heh...

Yes, sorry! It should be 119. I've corrected the post. Thank you!

[detlef]

Frankly if its another collecting of items, SE can kiss my buttSerious question: If additional busywork wasn't necessary, how would you spend your time in-game? Doing Tojil for the millionth time? Skirmish? Provided that the upgrade process is reasonable, making us work to upgrade our weapons is good because it gives us something to do.

[Leocon]

Agreed heh. I've already had the urge to finish pushing my Almace to 90 knowing that'll be needed to unlock CDC, and been doing some WoE tonight to try collecting items for future WSs to unlock too. Just being told this has actually given me a drive to do older content again. If collecting items was really such a bad point for me, I would've quit this game back during the CoP days. At least collecting items for these weapons has a guaranteed reward.

[Demon6324236]

I think the statement you are talking about was more toward the idea of getting the items for a 99 WoE weapon, not unlocking the WSs themselves, however I may be wrong.

[Fulgore]

On the other hand, as there is a huge difference in difficulty between the new routes and the current routes, we will be easing the current routes and reducing the amount of seals, coins, Devious Die, and Liminal Residue needed by more than half.

The latter adjustment is for those of you who have already progressed quite a ways with your Walk of Echoes weapon. Though I apologize that if you have already traded in items more than the amount needed after the adjustment you will not be able to get them back.

Lol...

[Vold]

Well it's about time we heard some news. I've always planned to stop my FFXIV extended break and return to XI once the RME business was handled. Looks like I better start sharpening my relics for battle. Oddly enough, as I reach my two month anni of FFXIV, I'm nearly maxed out with what I wanted to do and boredom has started to set in, just in time for Nov.

Say what you want about the FFXI grind yesteryear and today, but boy 14 sure has given me new found appreciation for not having stuff handed to you on a silver platter. Not to mention an appreciation for a text based game. If I scroll through an inventory of icons for much longer I'm going to hang myself.

[Kuroganashi]

Is there a Date for them to Release what updates be and how are they going to be done.

I Been waiting ever since they mention it................ 10/14 EMP Weapons.......... :(

Thinking of getting last 4 too just for the WS (Scythe, Axe, Club, Polearm)

[FaeQueenCory]

Well that's good.
The ONLY downside to them all being 119.... is that the moment the game goes beyond 119 we're almost back to square 1 again. (I say almost because they'll still have iLvs... so... it'll just be the damage/stats that will be outdated by anything greater than 119.)

I am overjoyed at the unlocking of the empy WS. (now all that's left is Relic lol)
And I am really happy about the REMs actually getting iLvs... SO much work could have been wasted if they hadn't...
Good to know everyone was on the ball on that.

(also having them be 119 kinda means that Delve2-X will be CL20: iLv119. Otherwise... this was a dumb waste of everyone's life.)

It's kinda hella close to the actual update... but it's good to have real information instead of just having to suppose about stuff that was said half a year ago.

I just hope that it doesn't screw over ppl with delve gear....
I just want everyone to be able to play together happily.

[saevel]

The ONLY downside to them all being 119.... is that the moment the game goes beyond 119 we're almost back to square 1 again. (I say almost because they'll still have iLvs... so... it'll just be the damage/stats that will be outdated by anything greater than 119.)


I do believe SE will be much slower about increasing iLevel's from this point on. They did too much too fast in jumping to iLevel 119. It would be best for them to move more slowly as there is still a ton of 119 gear not available, like the rest of the sets, or crafted / KI versions of some weapons.

[FaeQueenCory]

I do believe SE will be much slower about increasing iLevel's from this point on. They did too much too fast in jumping to iLevel 119. It would be best for them to move more slowly as there is still a ton of 119 gear not available, like the rest of the sets, or crafted / KI versions of some weapons.
Even so, there will be still be that huge wave of hate against having them all outdated AGAIN.
I don't think the game is gonna go past 120.

At least not for Adoulin.
Maybe in another expansion... but not Adoulin.

Also:
I REALLY hope that they add Dancer, Scholar, Rune Fencer, and Geomancer to the appropriate daggers, staffs, clubs, and great swords of the Relics and Empys.
SCH and DNC should have been added to Relics day1...
And it would be nice to have Caladbolg and Ragnarok as options for RUN... Senbaak is ugly IMO.
(So is Caladbolg.... so... Put stuff on Relics SE!)

[Leocon]

Don't forget Blue Mage, Corsair and Puppetmaster lol. Even if there are better options, I wouldn't mind some Excalibur action on my Blue Mage. Only job that would benefit from it's added effect really... *couenspellsgh*

[FaeQueenCory]

Don't forget Blue Mage, Corsair and Puppetmaster lol. Even if there are better options, I wouldn't mind some Excalibur action on my Blue Mage. Only job that would benefit from it's added effect really... *couenspellsgh*
COR is on the relic gun right?
And is BLU on no relics??
I don't play those.... but I would have sworn PUP was on the relic H2H and I'm fairly sure the relic gun is rng/cor...

But if they aren't.... wtf SE!?
Get on that!

[Leocon]

Nope, sadly no jobs since RotZ have been added to relic weapons.

[Helldemon]

While RMEs will be upgraded to item level 119, because they have special available weapon skills and other abilities specific to the weapons, we will balance this out by slightly suppressing the DMG value.

What about Relics that have a terrible Weaponskill and a terrible Aftermath that can basically be considered broken, Gungnir being one example?

[Okipuit]

Greetings,

I have a follow-up comment from Producer Akihiko Matsui to share in regards to the relic, mythic, and empyrean weapon revamps.



Matsui here.
I have some follow-up information on the relic, mythic, and empyrean weapon revamps.

First, we are planning to make it possible revamp these weapons moving forward based on item level increases while at the same time adding other equipment with the same item levels that can be selected for use as well.

Also, we plan on making adjustments to make it easier to create mythic and empyrean weapons. The plans below are still in the works, but I just wanted to let you know what we are looking into.

For mythic weapons, we plan on easing up on the participant restrictions for Salvage, Assault, and Einherjar. However, the easing on the restrictions for Salvage and Assault are directly tied to increase in instance lag, and there may be a possibility that other content such as Skirmish becomes congested, so we’d like to look into this carefully.

For empyrean weapons, we understand the necessity to upgrade these weapons with even fewer people and we would like to look into ways that will enable a lot more people to participate in Voidwatch.

We’ll also be periodically adding high difficulty content where you can put your RMEs to good use.


We understand that some of you are also curious about combat skill + for RMEs:


So, I understand that the base DMG rating will be lower, the real question that need be asked now seems to be, will the Skill be the same as other 119 weapons? I hope the skill stays the same as on other 119 weapons due to the fact that it would be highly damaging to the weapons to lose out on a stat as vital as accuracy. So long as we don't lose any skill, this seems great!

The amount of combat skill + to be added to RMEs will be the same amount we add to weapons that are also item level 119. For example, an item level 119 hand-to-hand weapon will have the same combat skill+ value as that of a hand-to-hand RME.

However, special properties on RMEs such as the critical hit enhancements on Ragnarok will not be increase further.

[Ophannus]

Will afrermaths be looked into? The development team wishes to have R/M/E's base damage set lower than Delve boss weapons but some weapons have truly inferior or outdated effects. Can setting Gungnir's base damage lower than Upukirex be justified when the 'Defense Down" additional effect is not only weaker than Angon but also overwrites Angon? Under that paradigm, using Gungnir would reduce the alliance's DPS and people would probably tell DRGs with Gungnir to put their Gungnir away so that Angon doesn't get overwritten. Additionally the aftermath effect of Geirskogul is still a 12 damage shock spikes. Does that special effect really justify having it have a lower base damage than Upukirex?

Finally, will Relic WS modifiers be reevaluated? Scourge having a CHR modifier and Geirskogul having an AGI modifier seem preposterous considering DRKs have dismal CHR and DRG have pitiful AGI?

[Kaelthas]

make it easier to create mythic

About time!

[Minikom]

Hello Dev team i have a couple suggestions or questions... dont know what catagory lol but here i go
next update ppl will be able to unlock empyrean weapons skill but comparated to empyrean weapons users ... i think they are going to be un fair, let me explain why
while ppl can use mythic weapons skills after doing a quest to unlock, comparated to mythic users, these weapons skills, have 30% less dmg then mythic user.
what im going to ask is empyrean users going to be a boost about 30% similar to mythic users? i think that part is great, anf if not, so can you remove the 30% boost on mythics and make this just similar to both users?

talk about REM always bring a lot of thoughts, make this fair is almost impossible, "fair" mean is subjetive.
i know a lot of ppl can say empyrean weapons have AM after they use empyrean weapon skill but so mythic does too...
after 1500 plates and 60 cinders or dross empyrean weapon skill should have a boost comparated to the 200k plasma weapon
a mythic lv 119 ws will do more dmg than lv 119 plasma ws (if they use the mythic ws)
why shouldnt empyrean weapon does more dmg comparated to a lv 119 weapon when they use empyrean weapon skill

[Demon6324236]

Thank you for the reply, I am very happy to know the Skill will be remaining the same as other 119 weapons, it was my greatest fear about this update.

If I may ask another question, while I understand the things like Critical Hit Rate on Ragnarok will not necessarily be enhanced, is there any chance some of the effects or Aftermaths which are rather weak, and unusable, will be revamped as well into more useful abilities? There are many of these through out Relics which are great, and equally as many which are so bad it just isn't possible to benefit from, such as Shock Spikes for the Polearm, which have a very low activation rate, or something like Regen from Excalibur's Knights of Round, which has been a static 10 Regen, which used to be helpful, but now days is hardly a dent in our high HP pools. I would love to see some of these changed, because while some effects such as the Critical Hit Rate bonus were boosted from 75 --> 99, Aftermaths stayed the same, many are rather underpowered for that reason, and the same goes for other bonus effects such as the Damage varies with HP effect of Excalibur which I think should have gotten stronger than 25% so that it would be better than En-spells, seeing as they do not stack.

A response to this would be greatly appreciated.

[Zumi]

Hello Dev team i have a couple suggestions or questions... dont know what catagory lol but here i go
next update ppl will be able to unlock empyrean weapons skill but comparated to empyrean weapons users ... i think they are going to be un fair, let me explain why
while ppl can use mythic weapons skills after doing a quest to unlock, comparated to mythic users, these weapons skills, have 30% less dmg then mythic user.
what im going to ask is empyrean users going to be a boost about 30% similar to mythic users? i think that part is great, anf if not, so can you remove the 30% boost on mythics and make this just similar to both users?

talk about REM always bring a lot of thoughts, make this fair is almost impossible, "fair" mean is subjetive.
i know a lot of ppl can say empyrean weapons have AM after they use empyrean weapon skill but so mythic does too...
after 1500 plates and 60 cinders or dross empyrean weapon skill should have a boost comparated to the 200k plasma weapon
a mythic lv 119 ws will do more dmg than lv 119 plasma ws (if they use the mythic ws)
why shouldnt empyrean weapon does more dmg comparated to a lv 119 weapon when they use empyrean weapon skill

Empyrean weapon will do more damage when you have ODD AM3. Which is why they want to put their damage rating lower then current 119 weapons.

[Kincard]

I'm sure after spending 6 months rigorously testing Gungnir, they decided that doing 15 damage for a few seconds every time you get hit after you strategically fire off Gierskogul (that did so much damage you pulled aggro) in your hybrid DRG STR/AGI build that you always carry with you (doubling as an evasion set of course), that they decided that leaving it as is would be the best choice lest Dragoons suddenly become the most powerful class in the game.

Well that, or they spent 5 and a half months not doing anything about it and decided to throw all the weapons into the Official FFXI Weapon Damage Calculator™, gave it lv119 skill and then called it a day.

[Minikom]

Empyrean weapon will do more damage when you have ODD AM3. Which is why they want to put their damage rating lower then current 119 weapons.

so mythics will do more dmg with AM3 and DA/TA effect

dont think you got my point
we are at point where ppl will get empyrean weapons skills and comparated to real empyrean users, they get fulluse for that ws with a weapon they can get in AH, or 1 day of doing delve when empyrean weapons take weeks maybe months depending on supply items, so why empy cant have dmg boost similar to mythic and relics?

[Minikom]

While you fixing mythics requirements, please increase drop rates for cottons/linens specially, old bosses on salvage2 should be able to drop linens, they used to drop them on old salvage just dont see why they not drop on new salvage, if not make 100% cottons there, NQ Boss should ahve 50% drop rate on linens, 7-15% is too low, being 1/15 runs on linen, i know others can have better luck etc but we arent talking about that here, Cottons should have more alex 5-20 is what usually they have make it more standard to 10-20 and linens to 80-100

[Demon6324236]

I have no problem with them getting a boost, but they also need to fix Relic and Mythic WSs or give them a bonus even larger than they already have. Part of why Empyrean WSs were not given a boost when Relic and Mythic WSs were is because Relic and Mythic WSs, well... suck. Most of them are nothing compared to Empyrean WSs because they were made for level 75s, even with the 30~35% bonus most of them still suck, my Knights of Round never would beat a CDC or Req because KoR simply sucks. The same goes for some others. So if they give them a boost, they need to fix Relic and Mythic WSs so they are on par, or they need to raise the boost accordingly, so if Empyreans get 30%, Relics should get probably around 70% and Mythics around 60%, doubling the bonus, maybe then they would work out.

[Kincard]

They would need to look at each WS individually, which is something they have never done, because that would require more than 5 minutes of effort (seriously...even if someone didn't understand the mechanics of the game I'd guess it'd take them at most a day of screwing around to figure out how bad some of them are, especially if you had debugging powers like "Give me 999 STR"). If you increase Mercy Stroke by 80% or whatever it'd be stupidly strong, increasing Geirskogul by 80% would still be awful. If you increased Drakesbane by 80% it would be ridiculous, if you increase Blade: Kamu by 80% it would still suck, etc. It's pretty crazy that after years and years of feedback from the playerbase, with detailed mathing out of the game for them, and 6 months to work on these weapons with constant "we're working on it guys" messages, and the result is still "input bigger DMG number into code, spend 5 months smoking weed".

I'm not really surprised by this sort of thing anymore, it's just kind of sad. I really wish they'd be more transparent about their process so maybe there's some kind of actual explanation for why it takes them 6 months to do something any knowledgeable player would take maybe a day to do.

[Tptn937]

I'm not really sure why I've had an active subscription for so long. I kept holding out expecting magical damage to be on par with MNK WAR DRK if properly supported but it never came. I'm almost positive if REM staves for BLM SCH SMN don't get properly fixed; I'm just done. I won't be wasting any more money on a company heading towards financial collapse, either. It's silly to think that such imbalance occurs for the jobs I've always tried playing most. I'd rather just spend free time on a more enjoyable game.

Create fair relic, empyrean, mythic weapons for magical damage dealers or I'm out. Crafted items hold almost no appeal for me. I don't want to use an Atinian staff over REM weapons, much like how a DRK doesn't want to use a senbaak.

[Babekeke]

Additionally the aftermath effect of Geirskogul is still a 12 damage shock spikes. Does that special effect really justify having it have a lower base damage than Upukirex?

I believe that their hidden effect OD2.5 is the justification for the lower damage, not the aftermaths.

[Helldemon]

This was part of one of the translations about why they were making the dmg lower: "because they have special available weapon skills and other abilities specific to the weapons" Gungnir has a bad weaponskill and the aftermath is a 10 damage shock spikes that can't stun mobs 50 levels below the characters level let alone anything important.

[Demon6324236]

In all honesty I think mage RMEs might finally hold some promise. Probably not the Relics and Empyreans admittedly outside of Magic Accuracy since that comes hand in hand with +skill effects. Mythics however, have had actual magic based stats, and now they have finally thrown enough Magic Attack Bonus and their new Magic Damage stat that they have finally beaten the effects of Affinity, which they for some reason refused to give to the RMEs in the first place. I think they will put enough MAB/MDMG that at least the Mythic will be a great weapon for actual magic uses.

[Kaeviathan]

Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui
For empyrean weapons, we understand the necessity to upgrade these weapons with even fewer people and we would like to look into ways that will enable a lot more people to participate in Voidwatch.
I really, really would not want to do VW ever again. The concept of Proccing for a NM's weakness and the use of temporary item takes the fun out of the game.

[FaeQueenCory]

Nope, sadly no jobs since RotZ have been added to relic weapons.
Crap! You're right!
...
Get on that, SE!
>:[


What about Relics that have a terrible Weaponskill and a terrible Aftermath that can basically be considered broken, Gungnir being one example?
It's not really that it's broken.... it's just that it sucks.
I mean... Dear god... Claustrum.
Claustrum!!
It's probably the crappiest out of all the REMs... at least Gungnir has the same DPS as the empy polearm... (obviously we're not talking about the WS here)
But it'll only be with this update to 119 that Claustrum will actually have mage stats on it. (In this case the Macc derived from the "fake" skill. So... it's still crap.)


Will afrermaths be looked into? The development team wishes to have R/M/E's base damage set lower than Delve boss weapons but some weapons have truly inferior or outdated effects. Can setting Gungnir's base damage lower than Upukirex be justified when the 'Defense Down" additional effect is not only weaker than Angon but also overwrites Angon? Under that paradigm, using Gungnir would reduce the alliance's DPS and people would probably tell DRGs with Gungnir to put their Gungnir away so that Angon doesn't get overwritten. Additionally the aftermath effect of Geirskogul is still a 12 damage shock spikes. Does that special effect really justify having it have a lower base damage than Upukirex?

Finally, will Relic WS modifiers be reevaluated? Scourge having a CHR modifier and Geirskogul having an AGI modifier seem preposterous considering DRKs have dismal CHR and DRG have pitiful AGI?
Uhg... I forgot about that... cause I don't play drg.
iirc they might have mentioned something about changing either angon or geirskogul to have them be separate... but... pretty sure that's been either ditched or is on the back burner with Cait Sith and Atomos.
And while it would be nice to have the attribute mods changed... it'll never happen.
At least with iLv gear.... you'll have like +50 or more to each of those nonprimary stats.... so.... yeah.... :/

As to the announcement about them having the same "fake" skill.... I'm rather surprised at that.
Crobaci+1 and Bereaver don't have the same +skill... (153 and 162 respectively) And they are both 113 weapons.
I would have thought that the +acc mod on the REMs would have just been eaten into the "fake" skill... so that the ones that had +acc have a higher "fake" skill than other 119 weapons.
But then Bereaver had both +acc and a higher "fake" skill than crobaci+1... so it was more of just a nice "streamlining" to save space... cause.. dear god are these items gonna have a LOT of words on them.

EDIT:

In all honesty I think mage RMEs might finally hold some promise. Probably not the Relics and Empyreans admittedly outside of Magic Accuracy since that comes hand in hand with +skill effects. Mythics however, have had actual magic based stats, and now they have finally thrown enough Magic Attack Bonus and their new Magic Damage stat that they have finally beaten the effects of Affinity, which they for some reason refused to give to the RMEs in the first place. I think they will put enough MAB/MDMG that at least the Mythic will be a great weapon for actual magic uses.
Mythics even now are still good. (obviously no longer the top of magery... but still really good none the less.)
Heck, lv75 yagrush is still useful for a whm today.
This iLvfication of them... will just make them CRAY CRAY!
Though I wonder if they will be getting +Mdmg... >_>
That kind of oversight is something that I don't count on being out of the realms of possibility.

And hey! Hvergelmir... has... +MP?
>_>
<_<
At least it's better than Claustrum.

[Helldemon]

Crap! You're right!
It's not really that it's broken.... it's just that it sucks.

Idk about you but I consider a 1% proc rate for stun on the shock spikes on level 20 mobs that lasts less then a second pretty horribly broken.

[kijutsu]

I dont reply posts very often so I hope I do it right,
Im my defense iLvL was forced upon us, let alone we had to upgrade RME's already from 75 to 99. 99 being the max level for a player.
I really do believe 99 RME's should be getting direct stat upgrade. no BS no questions asked, we already worked very very hard and spent
a fortune on them. Somehow I know this reply wont matter, but SE you want your paying members back? do it!

[Kuroganashi]

Believe the Path and requirements should be lowered to build those Weapons

[saevel]

The amount of combat skill + to be added to RMEs will be the same amount we add to weapons that are also item level 119. For example, an item level 119 hand-to-hand weapon will have the same combat skill+ value as that of a hand-to-hand RME.

However, special properties on RMEs such as the critical hit enhancements on Ragnarok will not be increase further.

This is what I wanted to know. That makes my 99 Almace worthwhile on my BLU regardless if CDC gets a boost or not. Will the secondary stats be looked at? Relics have +40 acc or attack while Emps have +20 to a specific stat. Will these secondary stats be raised slightly? Also is the dev team going to look at boosting Emp WS damage when using them with the Weapon like how Mythics are?

[FaeQueenCory]

Idk about you but I consider a 1% proc rate for stun on the shock spikes on level 20 mobs that lasts less then a second pretty horribly broken.
:(
The spell is just as janky awful...
Shock spikes was a nice idea... but poorly implemented.
The whole "shock spike effect" needs a potency boost just to make it an actual upgrade to ice spikes...
Cause not even casting shock spikes with overcapped enhancing makes it worth being cast for as long as I can remember.
But it's "not broken"... so it just sucks.

[Unctgtg]

Yep SE can keep their account, I want nothing to do with 11.

[Snprphnx]

Question for the Devs

If someone upgrades to the level 119 R/E/M, can they later do the magian trial to upgrade to the afterglow version?

[Sapphires]

They should have put +combat skill on the preexisting 99 weapons, so they were at least more usable while we have to do the new grindy trial they added. So until I do the new trial my weapon is still garbage compared to easymode delve gear on SoA content because it doesnt have the much needed +combat skill.

I'd be surprised if 20% of the RME owners come back and stick with the revamp left the way it is.
The only consolation is that they intend to keep the weapons growing with item level, provided we can trust them to keep their word.

[detlef]

I am hopeful that they keep adding the drops to new content and that the boxes and parcels become more plentiful. Right now I'm okay with the concept of collecting items, but feel like the amount is too much. Especially on a server like Valefor where we can't get our shit together.

[Daniel]

Hey guys, I got a cool idea, lets make them beat a boss 3000 times after going through all the work of getting the REM so that they can have a weapon that is slightly better than the weapon that boss drops with a 50% rate.

Everyone present for that meeting should be fired. Doesn't matter to me though, cancelling subs. Its clear that they are too far out of touch with the game to even begin to comprehend how ridiculous the "trials" are. I thought they would actually put some effort into the upgrades and make them fun and interesting... but no, just some bull shit grind fest for 300 magic marbles of doom that you have to share with 18 other people. Only 450-800million gil and you too can have a weapon "competitive" with the one you got today with a random pick up in 45 min for free. GOOD JOB.

[Kaeviathan]

I'm in the process of obtaining 300,000,000 gil for a mythic, and this is what we get, the need for another 100,000,000 - 150,000,000. This is unacceptable.

[Byrth]

The new upgrade items drop from quite literally all new content. Wait a week and see what the supply is like after people spam the AF fights a little. I bet we see our first 119s this weekend.

[Kaeviathan]

Maybe so, but I just don't want to invest more gil on it. I just want it to magically become level 119, free of cost. Like if it were to have a life-time warranty for free repair & maintenance once it reaches level 99. What would happen if level increases to 139, do we need to go through with this process again? If that is the case, then R/M/E are just a luxury with a very expensive maintenance.

[Byrth]

Maybe so, but I just don't want to invest more gil on it. I just want it to magically become level 119, free of cost. Like if it were to have a life-time warranty for free repair & maintenance once it reaches level 99. What would happen if level increases to 139, do we need to go through with this process again? If that is the case, then R/M/E are just a luxury with a very expensive maintenance.

Yeah, this is very obviously the system they are setting up. Sell your Alexandrite and do not make a mythic I'd you dislike it.

[Drakox]

Massive cancellation is the only thing they will understand

[Mefuki]

Massive cancellations for what? I usually agree with complains about SE but I really think they did a good fairly good job with this update. I'm confused. What exactly did we want?:

Well, we certainly were upset that RMEs were being left in the dust, being outclassed by gear that we have no "connection" with and by gear that is easily obtained (Oat) so I hear. So, SE said, "OK, it was a mistake to do that. We'll give you the option of upgrading RME." Good, problem solved. At this point we've figured out that the only way people are going to make new RME is if they're some of the strongest weapons in the game so we expected the update to be potent.

Free, automatic upgrades for life? So, we wanted to log in and be given the most powerful weapons in the game? And what then? AFK in Adoulin? Believe me, I know that it's a lot of work to get these. I spent literally months farming gil everyday to get the HMP and Riftcinders I got. Isn't that why we were upset in the first place? That all our work was being invalidated? Wanting free, automatic upgrades doesn't make much sense, does it? Wouldn't that be like SE releasing new content and then giving us the gear to be gained from that content when we log in? It doesn't make sense to me.

The issue I had initially with this part of the update was that the drops came from Delve because I don't like delve or most alliance content for that matter. So, when people were saying, "Delve drops? I don't want to do Delve." I said, "Yeah, that's really lame." but then I found out, as Byrth said, they drop from other things AND they're sellable. So, now they're pretty much like HMP and Riftcinders, which I'd remind you we complained about too (I did too) until people started completing the trials.
*Sidenote: It's also I huge economy boost to make these sellable which is another issue people where having.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not an SE apologist. I still think Stymie is silly and, frankly, the whole iLvl thing was/is a mistake (lateral, "sidegrade" gear would be better, if for no other reason for power creep's sake). I just think might be a little off base in what we wanted/expected. Because it seems like what we wanted was the best weapons without bothering to play the game.

[Kaeviathan]

here is my situation, I got my relic level 95 like a couple of days before the whole ilevel stuff. got it to level 99 like 2 or 3 months later. So practically, i haven't been able to use it and it sucks that I still am not able to use it any time soon. The result got me frustrated and i began venting that energy on the forum.

Also, I gave up on mythic and blew my gil on affordable weapons and spent nearly 45,000,000 on Verdigris Stone +2 to try and obtain Critical hit +2 for my Iuitl Armor set. Sadly, I only was able to obtain Critical hit +1 on just 2 pieces.

[Minikom]

after read the post about the 300 items and and Devs asnwer... have they chacked how much ppl asking for those items, 1m each, you need 300, just do math and that is 300m, adding those items to old cotent should be make ppl to do that content, for example, let them drop on salvage, dynamis and VWs too, you can add them to legion or even drop off arch bosss on limbus, just do supply easy, more and more ppl get REM 99 nowdays, we dont want a gruop of ppl to monopolize the items and teh price just because the content where they drop can be too hard

[FaeQueenCory]

after read the post about the 300 items and and Devs asnwer... have they chacked how much ppl asking for those items, 1m each, you need 300, just do math and that is 300m, adding those items to old cotent should be make ppl to do that content, for example, let them drop on salvage, dynamis and VWs too, you can add them to legion or even drop off arch bosss on limbus, just do supply easy, more and more ppl get REM 99 nowdays, we dont want a gruop of ppl to monopolize the items and teh price just because the content where they drop can be too hard
But.... if they add it to old content..... How will they force people to go do Delve more?

...
The only way to make them so common that they aren't 1M a pop....
Would be to make them rain from the sky like bayld does...
Easiest way?
Make them the new -ites.
Have them drop off of every adoulin mob by a small %.
Then the most you'll see is 50k.... I think that was the highest I've ever seen a geode in recent times.
But chances are.... They'll be cheaper if they make them super common.
HMP are still 100k per pop.... Because there's only one way to get them really...
And these are basically HMP and Riftcinders' evil devil baby.

Either flooding the game with them.
Or severely lower the number needed.
These are the way to "fix" this.

(I think lowering it 50 would be best... since you aren't guaranteed which of the three you're gonna get... and that puts it on the same level of getting 55 geodes and 15 -ites from the old trials.
It's still only feasible to farm them from Delve.
But the demand to do Delve is down to the level that it takes to get a 119 from a MegaBoss... maybe even a bit less. But considering the work to get it to 99.... I think letting this 119ification be easy is ok.)

EDIT: Especially Mythics.
3k Alexandrite.
Up front.
Plus a whole expansion and a few other stuff... NMs... random items from random places...
The 75-99 is about as demanding as a Relic or Empy trial... depending on the weapon...
But Mythics demand SO friggen much to just START.

[Okipuit]

Greetings, everyone.

Below is a follow-up comment from Producer Akihiko Matsui in regards to relic, mythic, and empyrean weapon upgrades.



Matsui here.

Thank you for all the feedback regarding relic, mythic, and empyrean weapon upgrades.
I’d like to respond about two aspects of feedback we have been receiving.


Number of required items for upgrades
There have been comments that 300 items is too much. Instead of reducing the number of items that are needed, we would like to make various content where you can gradually collect these, and increase the number of ways you can obtain them.


Empyrean weapons
There has been feedback mentioning that compared to relic and mythics, empyreans are weak, but by receiving the boons of the aftermath with even 100 TP you can gain stats that are by no means inferior to relic and mythic weapons.

Of course we understand that there are sensitive aspects to this topic, but as the version update as only just been implemented we would like to keep very careful tabs on the situation.

[detlef]

Feel free to add them to colonization and lair reives, I won't complain.

[bigdave]

you all know these drop off tier 1-5 nms as well and you should be happy about that quit complaining so much

[Foxx]

Can you make a way to cancel quest......I didn't know you could only do one relic at a time and without thinking handed in my dagger instead of my gun......

[Foxx]

Greetings, everyone.

Below is a follow-up comment from Producer Akihiko Matsui in regards to relic, mythic, and empyrean weapon upgrades.

I don't believe 300 is that much considering the items do drop from a lot of different content that people do regularly......better then collecting 1500 plates followed by 60 cinders/dross which people rarely do.

[Zumi]

They should randomly drop from mobs like geodes there problem solved.

[Byrth]

Yeah, or not. I have 19/300 and I'm essentially two nights of casual farming in. The 300 number is really a non-issue.

[Afania]

Massive cancellations for what? I usually agree with complains about SE but I really think they did a good fairly good job with this update. I'm confused. What exactly did we want?:

Well, we certainly were upset that RMEs were being left in the dust, being outclassed by gear that we have no "connection" with and by gear that is easily obtained (Oat) so I hear. So, SE said, "OK, it was a mistake to do that. We'll give you the option of upgrading RME." Good, problem solved. At this point we've figured out that the only way people are going to make new RME is if they're some of the strongest weapons in the game so we expected the update to be potent.

Free, automatic upgrades for life? So, we wanted to log in and be given the most powerful weapons in the game? And what then? AFK in Adoulin? Believe me, I know that it's a lot of work to get these. I spent literally months farming gil everyday to get the HMP and Riftcinders I got. Isn't that why we were upset in the first place? That all our work was being invalidated? Wanting free, automatic upgrades doesn't make much sense, does it? Wouldn't that be like SE releasing new content and then giving us the gear to be gained from that content when we log in? It doesn't make sense to me.

The issue I had initially with this part of the update was that the drops came from Delve because I don't like delve or most alliance content for that matter. So, when people were saying, "Delve drops? I don't want to do Delve." I said, "Yeah, that's really lame." but then I found out, as Byrth said, they drop from other things AND they're sellable. So, now they're pretty much like HMP and Riftcinders, which I'd remind you we complained about too (I did too) until people started completing the trials.
*Sidenote: It's also I huge economy boost to make these sellable which is another issue people where having.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not an SE apologist. I still think Stymie is silly and, frankly, the whole iLvl thing was/is a mistake (lateral, "sidegrade" gear would be better, if for no other reason for power creep's sake). I just think might be a little off base in what we wanted/expected. Because it seems like what we wanted was the best weapons without bothering to play the game.

I see population increased this weekend compare with 2~3 weeks ago. Personally I spent more time in FFXI than FFXIV this week too. That's enough really.

[Zumi]

Yeah, or not. I have 19/300 and I'm essentially two nights of casual farming in. The 300 number is really a non-issue.

Do you dual box? Because I know someone who dual box hardcore he has over 150 after 3 days of doing it, the other person who dual box more casually got about 80. What this game turned into is well do you dual box here you can do the content. Certain delve nms just lend themselves to dual boxing because they are that easy. Not many people left play this game and the when there is a huge grind like this you know nobody will want to team up to do it when it can be dual boxed.

Someone who doesn't have another character on a 2nd account the only option is to buy them but even that isn't good at the moment because several people are doing the same thing.

The only solo option is buy from bazzars and that is pretty bad at the moment. So yea they do need a solo option.

[Byrth]

I never bought my mule Adoulin because I disapproved of the direction of the expansion, so I don't dualbox. But yeah, there are people on BG that have already finished two trials just by farming Matamata.

[FaeQueenCory]

They should randomly drop from mobs like geodes there problem solved.
Better yet, have the relic rocks drop from Dynamis mobs/NMs, the mythic from ToAU NMs and stuff, and the empy drop from Abyssea NMs and/or VW NMs...
That way people can get the ones they actually need by doing content that is associated with the item in question.

You know... like how the magian trials for 75-99 work.
At least when they aren't "use the WS X times" or "kill X with the WS Y times"...
Relic trials involved Dynamis NMs.
Mythics involved NMs in ToAU area.
And Empys involved both Abyssea and VW NMs. (for the body parts and the HMPs respectively... I know Empys are a bit different because their "base" is technically an 80 and not a 75 weapon... but it's the same for them 80-99 as R&M is for 75-99)

It should have been like this from the beginning... channeling everything through Delve... just to get ppl to do it MORE...
Some people are tired of it.
Other people aren't having fun with it.
And other people just don't like it, and never have.
And forcing it on everyone just so they can keep competitive is not going to get these three types of people to change their mind about Delve.

EDIT: But don't make it dumb like how they might drop once in a blue moon like they do in WKRs.
The great thing about the REMs is that you used to be able to get "the best weapon" by only doing the content that you enjoyed doing.
Like Dynamis? make a Relic.
Like NM camping in and out of Abyssea? make an Empy.
Liked ToAU? Sell your soul to the Empress and make a Mythic.
Obviously there are some exceptions... "I want X, but I don't like Y content"... But that's a choice that the player makes. Is the specific weapon worth doing the content they don't like?
And if it's not... There are other options for them.

And to all the ppl saying "well the stuff is in the next login campaign"...
Not everyone has 20 mules to get enough points for everything.
Some of us are poor college students who can only afford 1 character.
It's just plain wrong to assume everyone has access to your resources.
To use the horse-paste saying: "check your privilege"

[Sapphires]

So whats the official word on being able to do this quest if you have a 2nd mythic in progress (on Duties, Tasks and Deeds stage?)
Is the upgrade quest supposed to function with people in this situation? Do we have to finish/cancel the 2nd one in progess or what?

[FaeQueenCory]

So whats the official word on being able to do this quest if you have a 2nd mythic in progress (on Duties, Tasks and Deeds stage?)
Is the upgrade quest supposed to function with people in this situation? Do we have to finish/cancel the 2nd one in progess or what?
- Players were unable reforge their mythic weapons if the weapons were obtained through Mog Bonanza.
- Players were unable to accept the quest which enables them to reforge their mythic weapon if they were progressing with the following quests.
An Imperial Heist / Duties, Tasks, and Deeds / Forging a New Myth / Treasures of Aht Urhgan (http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/polnews/news22677.shtml)
So... I think you're good to go now.
Seems like they fixed the mythic problems.
Really quick too.

[Demon6324236]

The issue I had initially with this part of the update was that the drops came from Delve because I don't like delve or most alliance content for that matter. So, when people were saying, "Delve drops? I don't want to do Delve." I said, "Yeah, that's really lame." but then I found out, as Byrth said, they drop from other things AND they're sellable. So, now they're pretty much like HMP and Riftcinders, which I'd remind you we complained about too (I did too) until people started completing the trials.
*Sidenote: It's also I huge economy boost to make these sellable which is another issue people where having.Not only that but SE has made very clear they want to give us choices in how we do this. I am tired of people coming here and acting as though Delve is the only method in the world. They included the RME drops in nearly every piece of Adoulin content to date, I haven't done any Skirmish in a while, but I would take a guess it may even drop there as well, just everyone finished their gear and so no one does it anymore. SE left this very open for us, complete a Delve boss win OR... not AND, not INSTEAD OF, OR, you can do a Hard Difficulty SKCNM, not Alliance content, with a good enough party likely not even 6 man content, likely some of them can probably be done with as little as 3 if your good enough players, but no, people complains Delve is the only way it seems.

[FaeQueenCory]

Not only that but SE has made very clear they want to give us choices in how we do this. I am tired of people coming here and acting as though Delve is the only method in the world. They included the RME drops in nearly every piece of Adoulin content to date, I haven't done any Skirmish in a while, but I would take a guess it may even drop there as well, just everyone finished their gear and so no one does it anymore. SE left this very open for us, complete a Delve boss win OR... not AND, not INSTEAD OF, OR, you can do a Hard Difficulty SKCNM, not Alliance content, with a good enough party likely not even 6 man content, likely some of them can probably be done with as little as 3 if your good enough players, but no, people complains Delve is the only way it seems.
Because there's a difference between doing content that *MIGHT* give you the drop you're looking for... (the drops of them in WKRs is just abysmal)
And one that actually will give you a drop.

It's the same reason why no one farms seals in Abyssea using the quests.
It's just shitty to do it that way.
You're not guaranteed the ones you need... or even a drop to begin with.

Delve, like hunting the NMs and yellow procing them for seals, is the currently only reliable way to farm these items.
And even then... you're not guaranteed the ones you need.

You made the argument that it makes no sense to do level 75 content to get "119 items"....
Why did it then make sense to do 75 content to make a 99 weapon?
Because that's really the exact same thing.

[Demon6324236]

Actually, to make a 99 weapon we did Arch-Dynamis Lord, which was not a level 75 NM, same with doing VW to 99 an Empyrean, and Pandemonium Warden may have been released at 75, but he was so infamously difficult he made news because he caused players who fought him to long to become physically ill because they could not beat him and yet persisted to try from what I recall, though I could be mixing AV and PW, since I know one of them did it. The point being with PW that he is not exactly your ordinary level 75 NM, so unless your telling me you want to farm 300 items from him or AV, its not the same thing as leveling to 99, very different. Now if you are talking about the trials before that, sure, they are level 75 mobs, but that was done for convenience on their part I am sure, just throwing those in as kills on trials, they didn't have to add new drop or anything, just make it the target of the trial which I am sure took less work. Your talking about adding drops to old monsters from years ago, and not just 1 or 2, but multiple NMs.

As for the who idea of not being assured a drop, you are complaining Delve is the only option, its not, its the best option, and part of why its a 100% drop is likely for the very reason you don't want to do it, you are lotting against 6~18 others! how many people would ever do Delve NMs if the drop rate were 10% and you only got 1 every 2 runs on average, only for 1 person in the Alliance to get the thing? That would be stupid. Its not that bad.

[FaeQueenCory]

Actually, to make a 99 weapon we did Arch-Dynamis Lord, which was not a level 75 NM, same with doing VW to 99 an Empyrean, and Pandemonium Warden may have been released at 75, but he was so infamously difficult he made news because he caused players who fought him to long to become physically ill because they could not beat him and yet persisted to try from what I recall, though I could be mixing AV and PW, since I know one of them did it. The point being with PW that he is not exactly your ordinary level 75 NM, so unless your telling me you want to farm 300 items from him or AV, its not the same thing as leveling to 99, very different. Now if you are talking about the trials before that, sure, they are level 75 mobs, but that was done for convenience on their part I am sure, just throwing those in as kills on trials, they didn't have to add new drop or anything, just make it the target of the trial which I am sure took less work. Your talking about adding drops to old monsters from years ago, and not just 1 or 2, but multiple NMs.

As for the who idea of not being assured a drop, you are complaining Delve is the only option, its not, its the best option, and part of why its a 100% drop is likely for the very reason you don't want to do it, you are lotting against 6~18 others! how many people would ever do Delve NMs if the drop rate were 10% and you only got 1 every 2 runs on average, only for 1 person in the Alliance to get the thing? That would be stupid. Its not that bad.
Yes I am talking about adding drops to older content... because then maybe there will be more to do then just more Delve.
The main reason I argue for this is because, the upgrades for the Relics and Mythics involve fighting and killing not 99 content to make them 99. In fact, the "use the WS X times" trials are all done for lv60 mobs... but it gives you a lv80 and higher weapons.
Why then should the 99>119 trial be any different.

I am not arguing that we should have similar drops to Delve... but I would like a viable alternative to more Delve.
And I proposed adding them as rare drops to wherever appropriate because then it give the player OPTIONS.
(not to mention by making areas where only one of the three drop allows for prices to not go crazy...)
PLUS it would revitalize content... much like NNI did...

Let's use Dynamis for the rough guide, since not only do I enjoy dynamis runs... but it's also the easiest and cleanest to implement.
(I also think that Relics are slightly more common than their doppels: Empys? Though I think that has to do with HMP and Cinders...)
I'm not talking about having everything drop a box 100% of the time...
But what if the NMs dropped a box (that's the medium one right?) on the rarity that they drop 100 pieces?
Or, more likely, they dropped them at a lower rate.

Adding singles to the regular mobs is just a suggestion... but if they did, it would be at a rate comparable to armor/weapon drops... or maybe less.

And while this might sound like a lot of work... It's really not.
It's literally intern level work with spreadsheets.
Don't you remember when Adoulin first hit and nothing had any steal table? That was patched in like a week... because it takes no work.
It is at worse typing rf6548 300x... but I'm betting they aren't running FFXI off of MS-DOS... so they can probably copypaste the reference ids.

And my comments about not getting what you need isn't about having to compete against others for lots... you have to do that in base Delve.
It was about not getting any of the NMs to drop whichever you're needing.

If they added them to the content associated with them... then people could target the ones they need: need relic stones? well you can farm delve or go farm dynamis... Dynamis will take longer, but you're guaranteed to only get relic stones.
THAT's what I'm talking about.

And more about "that's old content"... Relic+2A requires xp in dynamis areas... but... that's lv90 armor?
(and just making it 90 takes items that drop from... gasp! lv75 mobs... which thinking about it... the pluton stones should drop at the rate of forgotten pieces... or are those more common than armor? bluh. it'd be the rarest drop.)

And remember, not everyone has access to Delve.
While you and I might have our Delve wins and all the gear we want from it...
Not everyone is lucky like us.
There are some who can't get in because they are new or whatever...
And updating the REMs would have given a LOT of people who couldn't get into Delve for whatever reason a chance to be able to get in... because they now have a 119.

Which, again, if they added the drops to outside Delve at a reasonable rate...
Then more people can play together equally.
Which was why the REMs being the top was so good.

[detlef]

I know I've said this before, but I would like the RME upgrade items to have a slightly higher drop rate in WKR to keep people doing them. Like, a person that shows up should really have a 50:50 shot of getting one. If these items find their way into the hands of more players (especially casuals), I think everybody wins.

Hardcore players can still grind Delve NMs at a far faster pace if they would like.

[Minikom]

about Woe weapons, i notice if you have already lv 90 weapon you just need 35 dice adn 35 residuals but if you decide start a new weapon and take the -1 version from chest you need full items for that, 30 coins 20 crest 50 highcrest 100 dice and 100 residuals? how is this possible when they said that number of items were being reduded?

[Dragoy]

Minikom,

The old trials had their item requirements reduced, while the new, alternatives, have higher (one does skip a bunch of monster that way, after all, so I guess it makes sense).

[Okipuit]

Nope, sadly no jobs since RotZ have been added to relic weapons.


Crap! You're right!
...
Get on that, SE!
>:[



We currently do not have plans to change the equippable jobs for relic weapons and empyrean weapons. However, In the future, we will be adding mythic-like weapons for GEO and RUN.

[Demon6324236]

We currently do not have plans to change the equippable jobs for relic weapons and empyrean weapons. However, In the future, we will be adding mythic-like weapons for GEO and RUN.The question is, why? You have said before that the Relics were not made with the jobs in mind, but how does that change things? Half of the gear in the game was not made for DNC, BLU, PUP, or any of the jobs made after the gear itself was, but they were included on it, and in places they were not, near was made for them. I can understand somewhat, but you make it very unfair to people who play those jobs.

Mythics are by far the hardest task in this game to undertake, Alexandrite alone are more difficult than the entirety of a Relic or even an Empyrean for the most part, most people will never own one because of that. Anyone who plays 1 of the 15 jobs from the original game and RotZ has 3 options of which super weapon they wish to make, a Relic, Mythic, or Empyrean, everyone who plays the 5 jobs from ToAU/WotG has only 2 choices, Mythic or Empyrean, the latter of which is incredibly more difficult to get from 75 to 119 than the other two because of the Heavy Metal Plates and Rift-Items which are required, meaning their choices are both much more difficult than a Relic, and the last two, RUN and GEO, have only one option, which is the hardest of the three.

I ask you, is it not unbalanced that people who play and love these jobs have such limited choices for their best weapons? Wouldn't it be more balanced to add them to their Relic and Empyrean counterparts, or even make special Relics and Empyreans for them specifically?

[Umichi]

Is would assume it's due to their unique nature, what weapon type(Read as what the weapon is.) they are, and how specialized they are that determines what jobs go on them. Although empryean I don't understand it could merely be that maybe Audolin was the first to get wiped out during the invasion I mean those guys in audolin do live a pretty sheltered life up until we came along for colonization... and even then it still was no picnic for them what with an ever growing population and food shortages looming... I'm sure a monster attack didn't help anything. It could also be because those weapons were designed by the job and not crafted by expert hands... I mean cmon... whoever heard of a moogle being a master smithy? they are masters of magic...

[Demon6324236]

I am just trying to make the point that its not truly fair to the other jobs. The first 15 jobs in the game have a massive advantage over the other 7 in the fact they can build Relics to 119 so easily.

For Relics. Currency is not hard to get, access to Dynamis is simple, there is no entry cost, the event itself is easy and has been since they changed it let alone with Adoulin tier gear making even DC mobs a joke to fight, the trials after getting the Relic are simple just like the Mythic ones, being killing blow trials followed by some NMs, then marrows, which are in no shortage today and can be farmed quickly(I am in a LS who does about 4~5 ADLs a night when we go) and then you have 300 items to get from Adoulin which has the same drop rate as the others it seems.

For Mythics. You have to complete any entire storyline, then every single Assault once, just to get Captain Rank to begin the quest. At the start of the first quest you have to trade in your vigil weapon from Nyzul Isle, which you have to do for the weapon in the first place. After this you must beat every Beastmen leader in Aht, every Chariot, and Odin. The Second quest requires 30,000 Alexandrites, 150,000 Tokens from Nyzul Isle, 100,000 Therion Ichor, and you have to redo every Assault again. The third quest requires you to get 3 items from ZNMs then do a battle against a NM, and finally get a CS that gives you the weapon in all its glory. After that, you have to do the same kind of thing as Relic, Weapon Skill killing blows, and then you have to get 3 items from Pandemonium Warden, which takes much longer to kill, is more out of the way, and takes a lot longer to get pops for than ADL does. After this is the same 300 item type of deal as Relics, though a different item.

For Empyreans. You have to camp 6 pathetic NMs you never cared about any other time which are lotto pops and can take many hours to pop and must be killed many times, which provide no challenge or entertainment. After this you must fight 3 different VNMs which are annoying to pop and take 1 hour to repop. After this you have to collect 50~75 items from NMs across 3 different Abyssea zones each with their own KIs needed to pop them. After all of these trials you have to get 1500 Heavy Metal Plates which are gotten at a 10%~ish drop rate from a few NMs in VW which no one does anymore, and then get 60 Rift items which come from only 4 NMs in VW, and have about a 1~3% drop rate, and no one does. After this is the same 300 items kinda thing as the other 2.

Relics are by far the easiest of these 3, only 15 jobs have that option, Empyreans are almost as hard as a Mythic now days because of the VW issue, but not quite as bad as Mythics, and these are only available to 20 jobs, Mythics are for all 22, and by far the hardest. There is no balance, all 22 should have access to 3 weapons, 1 of each class at very least.

[FaeQueenCory]

We currently do not have plans to change the equippable jobs for relic weapons and empyrean weapons. However, In the future, we will be adding mythic-like weapons for GEO and RUN.
Well... I hope that this starts being a thing.... cause it's kinda hella stupid to not do it.

I've had the argument made "well RUN, GEO, BLU, DNC, SCH, PUP, and COR didn't exist in the past on 'the mainland' so they can't be on relics"...
Which is absolute garbage.
RUN has apparently been around since the Zilart.
And seeing as how the Zilart are First Ancestral Race beings....
Yeah.
RUN is one of the oldest jobs in Vanadiel.
(You can even argue that "David Bowie (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Kam%27lanaut)" is a "Zilartian RUN"... Cause his special abilities act nearly identical to RUN's runes.)

And the same person who said that argued that RUN and GEO should NOT get a mythic because they aren't ToAU jobs... Which completely ignores the fact that DNC and SCH have mythics...
And the fact that RUN has been a thing since the Zilart.
(their reasoning is that SCH and DNC are "from the past" so "surely one or two found their way over to Aht Urghan".... Again. Zilart RUN. Argument invalid.)

But the bolded part of the quote has me worried.
Because it's not "but RUN and GEO will be getting Mythics"...
It's "RUN and GEO will get something *LIKE* a Mythic".
And that is no where near the same thing.


Furthermore, putting the appropriate jobs on the Relics and Empys will not only do everything Demon6324236 said about player choice....
They will also allow RUN and GEO access to the empy WSs.... which... kinda is an unlockable now.
GEO and RUN got the "250" Quest WSs.... they should really get the Empy too.... at the VERY least if no one is ever gonna get on Relics but what they already have.
This is especially egregious when it comes to RUN.... Because this is THE GS job.... and yet it has access to none of the GS RE(M)s...
And that's just kinda hella stupid for the only A+ GS job to not have access to "the best" GS WSs.

[Babekeke]

Saying that they are 'Mythic-Like' is most probably due to how they will be made, rather than how good they will be. I would assume that it will consist of needing all WKR wins, all Delve Boss wins, lots of plasm, lots of verdigris stones, lots of skirmish wings, every coalition assignment completed (and as such, max coalition rank at all coalitions). Probably have to then redo all coalition assignments with a book in your hand too.

[Demon6324236]

Dear god lets hope not. Bad enough doing it in level 75 content... if that were the case they better start at 119 no questions asked.

[Afania]

I am just trying to make the point that its not truly fair to the other jobs. The first 15 jobs in the game have a massive advantage over the other 7 in the fact they can build Relics to 119 so easily.

For Relics. Currency is not hard to get, access to Dynamis is simple, there is no entry cost, the event itself is easy and has been since they changed it let alone with Adoulin tier gear making even DC mobs a joke to fight, the trials after getting the Relic are simple just like the Mythic ones, being killing blow trials followed by some NMs, then marrows, which are in no shortage today and can be farmed quickly(I am in a LS who does about 4~5 ADLs a night when we go) and then you have 300 items to get from Adoulin which has the same drop rate as the others it seems.

For Mythics. You have to complete any entire storyline, then every single Assault once, just to get Captain Rank to begin the quest. At the start of the first quest you have to trade in your vigil weapon from Nyzul Isle, which you have to do for the weapon in the first place. After this you must beat every Beastmen leader in Aht, every Chariot, and Odin. The Second quest requires 30,000 Alexandrites, 150,000 Tokens from Nyzul Isle, 100,000 Therion Ichor, and you have to redo every Assault again. The third quest requires you to get 3 items from ZNMs then do a battle against a NM, and finally get a CS that gives you the weapon in all its glory. After that, you have to do the same kind of thing as Relic, Weapon Skill killing blows, and then you have to get 3 items from Pandemonium Warden, which takes much longer to kill, is more out of the way, and takes a lot longer to get pops for than ADL does. After this is the same 300 item type of deal as Relics, though a different item.

For Empyreans. You have to camp 6 pathetic NMs you never cared about any other time which are lotto pops and can take many hours to pop and must be killed many times, which provide no challenge or entertainment. After this you must fight 3 different VNMs which are annoying to pop and take 1 hour to repop. After this you have to collect 50~75 items from NMs across 3 different Abyssea zones each with their own KIs needed to pop them. After all of these trials you have to get 1500 Heavy Metal Plates which are gotten at a 10%~ish drop rate from a few NMs in VW which no one does anymore, and then get 60 Rift items which come from only 4 NMs in VW, and have about a 1~3% drop rate, and no one does. After this is the same 300 items kinda thing as the other 2.

Relics are by far the easiest of these 3, only 15 jobs have that option, Empyreans are almost as hard as a Mythic now days because of the VW issue, but not quite as bad as Mythics, and these are only available to 20 jobs, Mythics are for all 22, and by far the hardest. There is no balance, all 22 should have access to 3 weapons, 1 of each class at very least.

I only play BLU and COR and I have both arma 99 and Death Penalty, I wish I can use anni too so I can have all 3 legendary guns to fulfill my gun fetish :D (And do hateless ranged WS)

Joke aside, they're lowering salvage/assault entrance requirement, and HMP probably gonna be soloable in the future too. In the end it's probably gonna be the same difficulty. Further more, Mythic is strongest weapon atm and empy being weakest, there's nothing wrong with Mythic being hardest to obtain but empy needs to be stronger.

[Zirael]

We currently do not have plans to change the equippable jobs for relic weapons and empyrean weapons. However, In the future, we will be adding mythic-like weapons for GEO and RUN.
Future matters little when HERE AND NOW we are suffering!
Also, mandatory 'where's Cait Sith'.

[Demon6324236]

there's nothing wrong with Mythic being hardest to obtain.Except that to two of the jobs in the game its the only option, and with Empyreans being the only other option for 5 more jobs, which is almost as bad as a Mythic.

[Byrth]

Except that to two of the jobs in the game its the only option, and with Empyreans being the only other option for 5 more jobs, which is almost as bad as a Mythic.

Mythics and Empyreans are available for all jobs except GEO/RUN, and SE has stated that they're adding GEO/RUN Mythic-esque weapons.

[Demon6324236]

Mythics and Empyreans are available for all jobs except GEO/RUN, and SE has stated that they're adding GEO/RUN Mythic-esque weapons.Which contradicts nothing I said. Two jobs in the game have Mythics as their only choice in a super weapon to build, 5 other jobs, BLU, COR, PUP, DNC, and SCH, have only 2 options, Mythic and Empyreans. That is what I said before. It has nothing to do with Mythics being hard or Empyreans being the second hardest, except for the fact that RUN and GEO only get the hardest one to make, and the other 5 jobs only get the hardest two. 15 jobs in this gave have access to Relics, insanely easier to make than a Mythic or an Empyrean, access to all 3 choices, while the other jobs are left with much harder to obtain weapons as their only choice. That is why its broken. Difficulty is icing on the cake because it makes it worse, but the end result is always that they are stuck with less options, which is what's messed up.

[Byrth]

Well, GEO and RUN don't have their "Mythic-esque" weapons yet.

[Zhronne]

The question is, why?
Maybe this is the issue.
A lot of times we ask questions and the devs, through the community managers, do not explain us why. They just give us very simple and concise replies which often become even more ambiguous because of the english translation.
Can't you guys imitate what Yoshi-P is doing a bit more?

When there's a choice which is generating a lot of lack of consense, could you please explain us WHY?
I mean, maybe there is an explanation which makes perfect sense and we didn't think of it.
Atm it seems just one of the many nonsensical things, and I can't see any good reason to avoid this change other than:
1) Things have always been like that and we don't want to change for the sake of things staying like that forever and ever
2) We don't want to give people too much motivation into doing RME, we are scared of too many people building them. They should be a far away myth that only a really really small bunch of people complete, not something for the mass. So the less motivation we give about it and the more difficult we make it, the better it is for the game and for our development plans in the long run

Is it something like this? Because really, I can't see anything that could remotely make sense aside from these (and they too don't make that much sense tbh)

[Zhronne]

Tbh I ask myself: when did we all become obsessed with RMEs?
Yes I include myself in the group because it's something I'm sincerily wondering.

5 Years ago only a small minority of players were concerned about them. How did they suddenly become a matter of interest of such a large player base? What happened?
Someone help me re-build the history that brought us all to this.
Back then RME were mostly unbalanced weapons, that wasn't a concern because there were so few of them it didn't really matter.
Their goal was mainly that of givinga far away, almost impossible to reach (for the majority of people) goal to look at, and something that would give importance, relevance, an "oooooooh!" effect to those few people who managed to get one.

Since when did it became a "standard"? Because not long ago, before SoA, we started ignoring every weapon which wasn't an RME and people started defining requirements for events by wether you had or hadn't an RME, sometimes even without good reason because some lv99 weapons were stronger than some lv 85 Empy, for example.

[Calysto]

Since when did it became a "standard"? Because not long ago, before SoA, we started ignoring every weapon which wasn't an RME and people started defining requirements for events by wether you had or hadn't an RME, sometimes even without good reason because some lv99 weapons were stronger than some lv 85 Empy, for example.

started in vw with shouts askind only dd with RME dd i think, with how "easy" it was to get an empyrean (at least until lv.95 cap).

[Umichi]

I am just trying to make the point that its not truly fair to the other jobs. The first 15 jobs in the game have a massive advantage over the other 7 in the fact they can build Relics to 119 so easily.

For Relics. Currency is not hard to get, access to Dynamis is simple, there is no entry cost, the event itself is easy and has been since they changed it let alone with Adoulin tier gear making even DC mobs a joke to fight, the trials after getting the Relic are simple just like the Mythic ones, being killing blow trials followed by some NMs, then marrows, which are in no shortage today and can be farmed quickly(I am in a LS who does about 4~5 ADLs a night when we go) and then you have 300 items to get from Adoulin which has the same drop rate as the others it seems.

For Mythics. You have to complete any entire storyline, then every single Assault once, just to get Captain Rank to begin the quest. At the start of the first quest you have to trade in your vigil weapon from Nyzul Isle, which you have to do for the weapon in the first place. After this you must beat every Beastmen leader in Aht, every Chariot, and Odin. The Second quest requires 30,000 Alexandrites, 150,000 Tokens from Nyzul Isle, 100,000 Therion Ichor, and you have to redo every Assault again. The third quest requires you to get 3 items from ZNMs then do a battle against a NM, and finally get a CS that gives you the weapon in all its glory. After that, you have to do the same kind of thing as Relic, Weapon Skill killing blows, and then you have to get 3 items from Pandemonium Warden, which takes much longer to kill, is more out of the way, and takes a lot longer to get pops for than ADL does. After this is the same 300 item type of deal as Relics, though a different item.

For Empyreans. You have to camp 6 pathetic NMs you never cared about any other time which are lotto pops and can take many hours to pop and must be killed many times, which provide no challenge or entertainment. After this you must fight 3 different VNMs which are annoying to pop and take 1 hour to repop. After this you have to collect 50~75 items from NMs across 3 different Abyssea zones each with their own KIs needed to pop them. After all of these trials you have to get 1500 Heavy Metal Plates which are gotten at a 10%~ish drop rate from a few NMs in VW which no one does anymore, and then get 60 Rift items which come from only 4 NMs in VW, and have about a 1~3% drop rate, and no one does. After this is the same 300 items kinda thing as the other 2.

Relics are by far the easiest of these 3, only 15 jobs have that option, Empyreans are almost as hard as a Mythic now days because of the VW issue, but not quite as bad as Mythics, and these are only available to 20 jobs, Mythics are for all 22, and by far the hardest. There is no balance, all 22 should have access to 3 weapons, 1 of each class at very least.

The only people who have an easy time making a relic are the ones with either no time on their hands or have aquired a massive amount of wealth in this game... I myself have spent the past 3-4 years making my relic and I'm still trying to get to stage 4 so don't tell me they are easy to make because unless you chose to level dnc and or are a thief you don't get squat for currency when you go farming. and alot of people can't be bothered to assist you anymore with getting your currency.

and I still find it hard to get into delve inside or out(mainly cause no one shouts for them anymore). Let alone trying to organize a group to go do these things these days *note if you don't have connections you don't get these items fast at all*

We all know mythic (contrary to what SE said) are the hardest to create but have some of the best weapons a job can use. and Empy weapons are just as accesible as dynamis. so don't give me all this crap about it being easy all REM have their challenges IDK why you constantly complain about relics not getting new jobs added to them when SE hasn't added new jobs to relic in ages. So I don't understand why this isn't the norm now....

[Umichi]

Tbh I ask myself: when did we all become obsessed with RMEs?
Yes I include myself in the group because it's something I'm sincerily wondering.

5 Years ago only a small minority of players were concerned about them. How did they suddenly become a matter of interest of such a large player base? What happened?
Someone help me re-build the history that brought us all to this.
Back then RME were mostly unbalanced weapons, that wasn't a concern because there were so few of them it didn't really matter.
Their goal was mainly that of givinga far away, almost impossible to reach (for the majority of people) goal to look at, and something that would give importance, relevance, an "oooooooh!" effect to those few people who managed to get one.

Since when did it became a "standard"? Because not long ago, before SoA, we started ignoring every weapon which wasn't an RME and people started defining requirements for events by wether you had or hadn't an RME, sometimes even without good reason because some lv99 weapons were stronger than some lv 85 Empy, for example.

It's because over time the requirements to aquire were eased up and allowed them to be more readily available for everyone... also during a period of time massive wealth was only in the hands of alot of people who had connections so the population who weren't doing endgame and stuff were starting to fall behind the *elites* so finally everyone started having one because they had money and connections hence why people got obsessed with it. It was also a time where it was a popular strategy to just throw bodies at an enemy so having a very powerful weapon granted you faster killing and increased surviveability cause people wanted you to stay alive TD:lr Blame acessability and meathead tactics to get things done.

[Afania]

Except that to two of the jobs in the game its the only option, and with Empyreans being the only other option for 5 more jobs, which is almost as bad as a Mythic.

They also have easier than mythic option, which is delve boss weapons.






Tbh I ask myself: when did we all become obsessed with RMEs?
Yes I include myself in the group because it's something I'm sincerily wondering.

5 Years ago only a small minority of players were concerned about them. How did they suddenly become a matter of interest of such a large player base? What happened?
Someone help me re-build the history that brought us all to this.
Back then RME were mostly unbalanced weapons, that wasn't a concern because there were so few of them it didn't really matter.
Their goal was mainly that of givinga far away, almost impossible to reach (for the majority of people) goal to look at, and something that would give importance, relevance, an "oooooooh!" effect to those few people who managed to get one.

Since when did it became a "standard"? Because not long ago, before SoA, we started ignoring every weapon which wasn't an RME and people started defining requirements for events by wether you had or hadn't an RME, sometimes even without good reason because some lv99 weapons were stronger than some lv 85 Empy, for example.


The reasons are pretty obvious, 1. Too many people have RME 2. RME were too OP in pre-SoA era.

There's certain lv of difficulty content needs to maintain, the more RME owners there are, the more def/HP/eva mobs need to have.

If only 1% of endgame player has RME, dev doesn't have to make mob HP/def/eva as high. If 50% of endgame player has RME, they need to make mobs tougher or else the content would be too easy for majority.

Lv 75 contents are fairly clearable without RM, you usually see 1 or 2 RM per LS, do content with 1~2 relic members in LS. Also lv 75 contents are mostly open world or has cap much higher than needed, so you can throw bodies at the NM. Even if 1 person wearing AH weapon, it doesn't matter much.

Further more, lv 75 relic/mythic wasn't THAT OP, barring a few weapons maybe. There are plenty of alternative weapons that can do fairly well.

Ever since empy introduced the balance kinda broke, empy WS was too game changing at that point of time, and it's fairly easy to obtain, so it became must have. As more and more players got RME, dev needs to make the content more difficult or else a group of RME DD will make the content too easy. That made none RME DD kinda not competitive.




The only people who have an easy time making a relic are the ones with either no time on their hands or have aquired a massive amount of wealth in this game... I myself have spent the past 3-4 years making my relic and I'm still trying to get to stage 4 so don't tell me they are easy to make because unless you chose to level dnc and or are a thief you don't get squat for currency when you go farming. and alot of people can't be bothered to assist you anymore with getting your currency.


The difficulty is based on most popular way to do it. Most ppl farm currency on BST BLU THF DNC PUP, if you choose not to farm currency on none TH jobs with JA proc for w/e reason, it's your own issue for being the minority. Just because YOU choose to do it on other job, doesn't make it hard, because every 1 person farming currency on other jobs, there are 99 more ppl farming on BST BLU DNC PUP THF. You're just making it harder by purposly choosing other jobs.

It's like saying killing lair reives in SoA is hard, because I try to solo it on WAR/SAM and I got ass kicked without heals. That doesn't mean lair reives are hard, as plenty of jobs can solo it.

[Zumi]

Relics 99 far out number the empyrean and mythic 99 because it was a lot harder to 99 those 2 compared o relics. Making the 119 part the hardest because more people are buying the relic items and they go for the highest price. We have like 500k relic items vs 150-200k empyrean/mythic items.

[Umichi]

They also have easier than mythic option, which is delve boss weapons.

The reasons are pretty obvious, 1. Too many people have RME 2. RME were too OP in pre-SoA era.

There's certain lv of difficulty content needs to maintain, the more RME owners there are, the more def/HP/eva mobs need to have.

If only 1% of endgame player has RME, dev doesn't have to make mob HP/def/eva as high. If 50% of endgame player has RME, they need to make mobs tougher or else the content would be too easy for majority.

Lv 75 contents are fairly clearable without RM, you usually see 1 or 2 RM per LS, do content with 1~2 relic members in LS. Also lv 75 contents are mostly open world or has cap much higher than needed, so you can throw bodies at the NM. Even if 1 person wearing AH weapon, it doesn't matter much.

Further more, lv 75 relic/mythic wasn't THAT OP, barring a few weapons maybe. There are plenty of alternative weapons that can do fairly well.

Ever since empy introduced the balance kinda broke, empy WS was too game changing at that point of time, and it's fairly easy to obtain, so it became must have. As more and more players got RME, dev needs to make the content more difficult or else a group of RME DD will make the content too easy. That made none RME DD kinda not competitive.





The difficulty is based on most popular way to do it. Most ppl farm currency on BST BLU THF DNC PUP, if you choose not to farm currency on none TH jobs with JA proc for w/e reason, it's your own issue for being the minority. Just because YOU choose to do it on other job, doesn't make it hard, because every 1 person farming currency on other jobs, there are 99 more ppl farming on BST BLU DNC PUP THF. You're just making it harder by purposly choosing other jobs.

It's like saying killing lair reives in SoA is hard, because I try to solo it on WAR/SAM and I got ass kicked without heals. That doesn't mean lair reives are hard, as plenty of jobs can solo it.

I shouldn't have to conform to what everyone else is doing just because it makes it easier I do not enjoy playing those jobs so why should I be forced to level them just to have an "Easier" time. Remember this game is about being who you want to be. Not everyone wants to or has caped every job at 99 and the expectation that you have to or stop playing this game in this era of gameplay is ludicrous.

[Helldemon]

Relics 99 far out number the empyrean and mythic 99 because it was a lot harder to 99 those 2 compared o relics. Making the 119 part the hardest because more people are buying the relic items and they go for the highest price. We have like 500k relic items vs 150-200k empyrean/mythic items.

Not true, Mythic Trials to 99 were far easier then relic or empy. Maybe with Ilvl gear now that may not be the case, but T3/4 ZNM kills and PW were far easier to do then ADL was. I could solo up to T3 pops for ZNM on drg and maybe even kill some of the T3. T4 could be done with a couple bst. PW could be done easy with a pickup alliance.

[Zarchery]

I shouldn't have to conform to what everyone else is doing just because it makes it easier I do not enjoy playing those jobs so why should I be forced to level them just to have an "Easier" time. Remember this game is about being who you want to be. Not everyone wants to or has caped every job at 99 and the expectation that you have to or stop playing this game in this era of gameplay is ludicrous.

You know, my work is about 7 miles away from my home. It's a short and easy drive that takes about 20 minutes; 30 in rush hour traffic. If I chose to walk there, it'd take hours. If I chose to walk there, I wouldn't have much right to complain because I willingly took a harder route for no reason other than stubborness and a desire to be different.

[Afania]

I shouldn't have to conform to what everyone else is doing just because it makes it easier I do not enjoy playing those jobs so why should I be forced to level them just to have an "Easier" time. Remember this game is about being who you want to be. Not everyone wants to or has caped every job at 99 and the expectation that you have to or stop playing this game in this era of gameplay is ludicrous.

Being who you want to be or how you want to do stuff doesn't change the difficulty though. Difficulty of something is not depend on how you do things, but how majority of ppl do things.


I can try to beat a single player RPG at lv 1, skip every battle on the way and purposely not to lv up, then tell everyone how I wipe over and over at the boss and this game is hard. But that doesn't mean everyone else who play the game properly with proper lv will wipe over and over again at the boss. I choose to play the game in hard mode, doesn't make the game hard. Or else anyone can just play the game in hardmode and pretend the game is hard.

[Umichi]

You know, my work is about 7 miles away from my home. It's a short and easy drive that takes about 20 minutes; 30 in rush hour traffic. If I chose to walk there, it'd take hours. If I chose to walk there, I wouldn't have much right to complain because I willingly took a harder route for no reason other than stubborness and a desire to be different.

Problem is I'm not complaining so get out of here with your talk.

[Umichi]

Being who you want to be or how you want to do stuff doesn't change the difficulty though. Difficulty of something is not depend on how you do things, but how majority of ppl do things.


I can try to beat a single player RPG at lv 1, skip every battle on the way and purposely not to lv up, then tell everyone how I wipe over and over at the boss and this game is hard. But that doesn't mean everyone else who play the game properly with proper lv will wipe over and over again at the boss. I choose to play the game in hard mode, doesn't make the game hard. Or else anyone can just play the game in hardmode and pretend the game is hard.

Having every job at lvl 99 or expecting people to have these jobs because "Thats how the majority plays" is not how I viewed this game being played and I'm sure it wasn't the intention of the creators to expect everyone to have these jobs in order to do the content seemlessly... I'm not here complaining about why it's taking me such a long time I'm just saying that the average player who doesn't have one of the jobs listed lvld still has a varying degree of difficulty in obtaining these weapons. I'm publishing my experience with building a relic by playing a job I love playing and everyone gets on me about stupid scenarios and how I'm intentionally playing hardmode and complaining it's hardmode....... because I'm not. I'm playing the game.

I'm telling you that the difficulty in obtaining these Items is still there just the vast majority of people decided that like any other typical MMO they wanted the shortest path. I don't enjoy playing those jobs, why am I the bad guy because you think it's the norm that everyone should have these jobs lvld or GTFO?

[Bluestar2kx]

The only people who have an easy time making a relic are the ones with either no time on their hands or have aquired a massive amount of wealth in this game... I myself have spent the past 3-4 years making my relic and I'm still trying to get to stage 4 so don't tell me they are easy to make because unless you chose to level dnc and or are a thief you don't get squat for currency when you go farming. and alot of people can't be bothered to assist you anymore with getting your currency.


I disagree with this.
I'm not massively wealthy, I don't have a ton of time on my hands, and i don't even have a job above Lv 90. And i'm still able to make a relic weapon, granted it's with considerable help from a friend who's been really nice to me, but when 99% of the servers have at least 1 Lv 99, if not 10-20 with insane aboulin gear, it's not hard to get a relic weapon. Last night after buying coins with what i had, I'm almost done with stage 3 (56/61 silver pieces.) then i just need the r/e item from icelands (which admittedly, will likely delay me by 4 days, because I don't yet have those wins.)

So don't tell me relics are hard to make. The only hard part is killing the NM for the stage 3 and 4 items. It's just time consuming to build, but tell me worth while weapons in FFXI that aren't.

Had I not had help, I was still able to do dynamis at Lv 80, just slow and tedious, but possible. At 80 nin with a whm support, I got 20 coins. Imagine what a 90 could do, most people can see the coin drops with a 99+, esp those with thf or dnc. But almost any melee job can do dynamis efficiently. My friend goes mnk/dnc and we still average around 150.

I maybe an exception with help, but not with completing it.
As I said, a vast majority if the players are Lv 99 in at least 1 job, likely a lot of them, so you can't tell me dynamis isn't hard to do. Unless of course, 150+ coins is "squat for currency," but 150 seems like a lot to me, and it's gotten me where i am now with what bits of money I can get myself.

As for time, I've got a 6 month old baby in the house and still able to get it done, each run isn't that time consuming in itself, though the whole task is, a lot of people do it with jobs and school and more problems then i have to deal with (And better levels and gear.) And just for the record, I don't just sit at the outpost and leech coins, I go on my pup and help.

Relic weapons are easily the most accessible weapons in the game.
But I agree with Demon, relic weapons should be open to all the jobs in the game. Expand the amount of weapons able to be made if needed, but don't just not give them to the other jobs. Besides, it's not like you've not given old school stuff to other jobs, abiet only a few. Pup for example, can use hope staff. From sea, which is almost as old as dynamis. And nobody even knows why yet.

p.s. I kind of wish all the old school stuff had the new jobs added to the lists Tbh. Pup with faith claws? could be fun :P
Wonder if they'll ever update that old sky/sea gear to ilevels and add the new jobs to the lists?

[Zarchery]

Problem is I'm not complaining so get out of here with your talk.

Yes, you are (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/complain?s=t). There's no two ways about it.

[Zarchery]

The only people who have an easy time making a relic are the ones with either no time on their hands or have aquired a massive amount of wealth in this game... I myself have spent the past 3-4 years making my relic and I'm still trying to get to stage 4 so don't tell me they are easy to make because unless you chose to level dnc and or are a thief you don't get squat for currency when you go farming. and alot of people can't be bothered to assist you anymore with getting your currency.

I created my Spharai in about 5 months, mostly solo. I farmed every day for 2 hours. Most days, those 2 hours of farming were the only thing I did (some days I stuck around and did other in game stuff). I got into a pickup group working on one of the 85 to 90 magian trials and picked up my Attestation. A THF friend helped me farm the base piece, though I could have done that solo too if I wanted. Aside from those 2 sessions, it was all solo. Of course, I did it on BST. I guess it was easy because I didn't intentionally hobble myself by, like, not learning about procs or going in as WAR/MNK or something.

Your observations are based on faulty information, and so your conclusion is flawed.

I get the feeling that you seriously don't understand how the proc system works in Dynamis. That's the only way you could take 3-4 years to build a relic, even if you were on a job not optimized for farming.

[Umichi]

Ok so lets addendum what I said then... I believe I used that right...


It's takes less time to make a REM When you have connections, any of the jobs listed that can easily obtain currencies at a rapid and proficient rate, have wealth, and/or*(*read after every coma) a lot of time on your hands.

The only thing that makes relics easier than the others is for the simple fact that it is in the oldest content... Although updated it's still doable.. and the same can be said for the other two types of ancient and powerful weapons also. Although their difficulty to obtain is still higher just for the simple fact that they are in harder content....

With proper guidance from an experienced player anyone can get these weapons on their own or with a small group of people.. Problem is there are alot of experienced players who have everything in the dang game... Then you have people like me.. I don't really have connections due to the way I play (and my time spent playing these days) and I know the content so I can easily solo most of it albiet as you said at a tedious rate. I don't make much money but I know how to make a mint and lately I've been hitting one-million if I tried hard (in the older days I could never get that much lol..) Not a lot of people shout for stuff outside of items for sale and sometimes highend content.

Most people are to busy doing their own thing since the content is solo-able. We have a majority population that plays a specific way and has better access to a lot more things via third party tools, or through the loophole SE provided us unofficially/officially or both.. I just play bare bones no extra accounts (Although I do have a few extra characters I work on and I only share my armor and gil with them that I turn on occasionally on the same PoLID)... Not a lot of people shout for stuff outside of items for sale and sometimes highend content. My linkshell I'm currently with is just now ramping up to do the content in the game. We finally designated people to specific areas of content in the game. Most of the leaders can't or don't have the expansion. so I'm excited for us to finally start recruiting and training people!

I like playing as Drg/whm I dabble in a lot of other jobs but I only have two jobs at 99 and not alot above level 50. Playing how I want is fun and SE encourages that kind of good gamesmanship... However a lot of people frown upon this kind of thinking and I don't enjoy that because they always tell me how I'm playing the game wrong or I should play it a certain way. I'm really only interested in playing as a Drg...

Not a lot of people shout for stuff outside of items for sale and sometimes highend content. My linkshell I'm currently with is just now ramping up to do the content in the game. We finally designated people to specific areas of content in the game. Most of the leaders can't or don't have the expansion. so I'm excited for us to finally start recruiting and training people!

Is that better? I hope that what I said was insightful into how I play my game and alot more clearly written out to I'd tell you my lifestyle but that's personal and this is the internet >_>

They just came out and said they don't intend to at this time. While I wish that maybe someday they might be on them so everyone can play with them I am not holding my breath as they already said they weren't crafted around the jobs that can use them. So how they decide to do it is up to them

[Afania]

Having every job at lvl 99 or expecting people to have these jobs because "Thats how the majority plays" is not how I viewed this game being played and I'm sure it wasn't the intention of the creators to expect everyone to have these jobs in order to do the content seemlessly... I'm not here complaining about why it's taking me such a long time I'm just saying that the average player who doesn't have one of the jobs listed lvld still has a varying degree of difficulty in obtaining these weapons. I'm publishing my experience with building a relic by playing a job I love playing and everyone gets on me about stupid scenarios and how I'm intentionally playing hardmode and complaining it's hardmode....... because I'm not. I'm playing the game.

I'm telling you that the difficulty in obtaining these Items is still there just the vast majority of people decided that like any other typical MMO they wanted the shortest path. I don't enjoy playing those jobs, why am I the bad guy because you think it's the norm that everyone should have these jobs lvld or GTFO?

I didn't say a word about whether you're good or bad, or whether you should GTFO or not. I only said you can't represent everyone else because you choose to do slow way....if you want to do slow way, fine. But don't pop on the forum and tell everyone relic is slow and hard because you CHOOSE to be slower than everyone else.

I'm just saying difficulty is based on avg player's timespent, not minority. Appearantly you're minority. Most of the ppl who activatly working on a relic takes less than 3~4 years. Unless they play on and off, or not full time working on a relic and work on relic as a side project when they have time. If you're the minority/not avg, don't try to represent everyone else.

It took me about 3.5 years to make my Mythic starting from 0, but I do it as a side project and farmed other items/empy 99 in those 3.5 years, so my time spent on it is longer than many other people. That doesn't mean I'd pop on forum and telling everyone Mythic is 3.5 years of work. Plenty of ppl finishd it in 1 year or even less. I don't make 3.5 year a norm because just because I spent 3.5 years, I can't represent everyone else.

[Manux]

waiting on relic updates anyone know when SE will work hard for that yet?
Well the prices are gone down for those currency O.o

[Toren]

Some weapons still need some minor changes to their quest at least to be realistic at this point in the game. I built my empryean back during the Scars era and upgraded it all the way to 90 I wasn't able to upgrade it past that because of the requirements, and lack of being able to get into a group that actually did VW.

Plates are still difficult to obtain it would be great if more ways to obtain plates were added or it was changed in some way or another to at least be reasonable to work toward again before the game is shutdown.

Possibly even similar changes to Mythics as well, the majority of relics can be solo'd or low manned.

[Kensagaku]

To be fair, the majority of Mythic work can be soloed too. They've made changes to the worst of the Assaults, extended the timer for Einherjar, and Nyzul/Salvage are already soloable. Empyreans do need a bit of a pick-up, being left behind as they are and tied to the content they are, but Mythics are in a pretty good spot now.

[machini]

So, has the RME upgrade been scrapped, or is that going to come sometime before March?

[Ladynamine]

So, has the RME upgrade been scrapped, or is that going to come sometime before March?

The development team is planning to strengthen Relic, Mythic, Empyrean and Ergon weapons once the Aeonic weapons have been implemented.

It's still in the works for now.

[Grekumah]

So, has the RME upgrade been scrapped, or is that going to come sometime before March?

Fear not, the upgrades to Relic/Mythic/Empyrean/Ergon weapons are still coming! The development team is not only adding stat upgrades, but also making event-related adjustments (not quests, but text-related to upgrading), and adjustments to certain Aftermaths.

This work will take a bit more time, but it is underway!

[Shirai]

I will remain ever curious.
While my Nirvana has little to worry about, I do kinda hope for my Spharai to get a major improvement as they have been outclassed by several other non-RME options in the recent past. Quite severely to add.
As I invested a lot of time and gil in those too, I do hope my Golden Fists of PAIN will be deserving of that name again.

[Alhanelem]

hopefully they'll do something awesome with claustrum. I would settle for making the Magic Damage + applicable to avatars.

[Shirai]

I'm afraid that will always be the "Why on earth did you ever make that weapon" weapon.

[Jile]

Fear not, the upgrades to Relic/Mythic/Empyrean/Ergon weapons are still coming! The development team is not only adding stat upgrades, but also making event-related adjustments (not quests, but text-related to upgrading), and adjustments to certain Aftermaths.

This work will take a bit more time, but it is underway!

Really looking forward to these epic updates where RME's will be usable for all jobs and not just pretty on our mannequins! :)

[Tile]

Fear not, the upgrades to Relic/Mythic/Empyrean/Ergon weapons are still coming! The development team is not only adding stat upgrades, but also making event-related adjustments (not quests, but text-related to upgrading), and adjustments to certain Aftermaths.

This work will take a bit more time, but it is underway!

how about adjusting a few one the WSs too, like how Atonement is still super weak, and you can't say its a reliable source of damage because since it was added there are many mobs that will erase hate and make the WS do very little dmg or nothing at all.