Level 99 Relic, Mythic, Empyrean, and WoE Weapons

[Zhronne]

How about we wait and see what the future holds?
I'd be all for that if someone from the dev team came here and said something along the lines of:

"Don't worry, I know it may sound strange but rest assured nothing is gonna happen, we have big plans about your concerns and trust me you won't be disappointed. We have a lot of stuff planned, just wait and see!"

Instead of:

"I'm sorry to hear so many disappointed people, I wasn't expecting it. I'm doing my best to find a solution about this issue, maybe I've found one and it could be this XXX, but I don't know if we'll be able to implement it because we lack manpower. Sorry! Doin my best!"


Do you get the difference, right?
The first is a person who has everything already planned in mind, he was expecting this reaction, everything is going exactely according to his plans.
Maybe I won't like his plans, but at least I know he has one and everything is going perfectly to how he planned stuff.

The second is a person who wasn't expecting things to go this way, not to this degree. In the rush of the moment he worked his ass off to find a last-minute solution, he found one... maybe.
But it's not really 100% convincing so he's still working on it.
Also, he's not even sure if he'll be able to implement it because they don't have many employees and they had different plans and weren't really planning to be needing this last minute solution.

See? How can you trust someone like this? How can you have faith in his ideas, his plans? I have none, at the moment.

[Areayea]

regarding that statement, remember Matsui isn't the only developer, he's more of a represenative with more power... so it could fly through the walls, and other developers might be cracks in the walls; either way it could be that they could not make anything weaker than a certain # of hp mobs... because everything in SoA already is meant for 99 content, NOT 75 kinda like abyssea. because the mobs are actually tougher in SoA they might have needed to make NMs llike they used to be but realized we dont really have the weapons like we did back then (remember back then Relics weren't the best at times, if you don't remember SMN burning every HNM)... they just need to recreate balance in magic jobs, and up dmg on r/e/ms but that's difficult because how can they (that's their thoughts on the issue now I believe)

[Emitremmus]

I agree he could be a little more reassuring with all of the problems coming up as of late. That of course would hold the backlash off for a bit. But, alternatively, he's being honest and saying it might not happen soon and that the manpower is lacking at the moment.

Fact is, you're never going to make everyone happy 100% of the time. I play this game for what it's worth, and what I put in is what I get out of it. Even a Joyeuse was a big accomplishment for me after getting married and having a kid (I went from in-depth player to pretty-freakin-casual player), but I didn't trip balls after it became obsolete. I've always been satisfied with FFXI and the direction it has taken. I have no qualms that this will all work out in the end, and to be honest, those that ragequit over something like this are just going to make the game that much more enjoyable with their absence.

[Economizer]

I've really been trying to sit quietly about this, for various reasons, but this post had a lot of good points.


I am not pissed that the pants I spent about 175M on a few weeks before the patch got outdated. I expected it.

I think this should sink in a bit. Obviously Byrth is obviously not just some casual player, but paying 175M on pants that are expected to get outdated fairly quickly (unless I'm misunderstanding, he expected them to be outdated within around a 1~3 month time period) is definitely not something normal for most players.

Many players will do Dynamis for around 3 months to get currency that is worth under that 175M mark rather then paying for it for example.

I haven't been playing enough recently to know how the game economy is faring, but for the casual player, making gil in excessively large amounts is difficult, especially if you don't craft or fish very much. Berating players who have such difficulties doesn't change this.

Perhaps this is the way it is for gil, but with the expectations that have been built up with weapons, for better or for worse you have players who invested into something (especially players who only have a 95+ Relic) with the expectation that it would always be competitive.

Relatively, they're going to be more invested by a wide margin when compared with players like Byrth, and to add insult to injury, they likely won't be able to get whatever weapon to the 99 mark because of past actions on SE's part either. So they're stuck with a 95 Relic which is now a shadow of its former self. Berating players who would have difficulties upgrading it to 99 doesn't change this.


I do definitely understand how livid more casual players that recently completed their first RME to 99 might be.

I don't really have any of these, so personally I'm not very livid, although I am fully capable of understanding the position of those who are.

Personally, I have a Gambateinn that I've been slowly working on.

This is mostly because it was always going to be a placeholder for having a Mjollnir until I got one, and partly because it has just been on the backburner to everything else. It is a placeholder in part because the weapon skill is more of a utility weapon skill, and not in a good way like Catastrophe or Myrkr, especially since White Mage already has Mystic Boon and more cures then any other class.

This was further complicated back at 90->95 when players learned that it costs 1500 HMP to upgrade from 90->95. Obviously for a second rate weapon that was already inferior to the Relic, it is not really intelligent to sink the upgrade costs in for this.

Then, the update before this last update, a weapon was added to the game that outdid the damage of Gambateinn even at 95, and since I didn't intend on taking it past 90 ever, this put the nails in the coffin for anything but very niche utility usage. Obviously I'm more sad for Mjollnir, but as I don't have one, I'm not too worried.

Still, there is now talk of wanting players to get these weapons to 99 to get the weapon skills or something without it? Who is going to take this weapon to 99, sinking in millions of gil for the absurdly niche usage?

Maybe the dev team has a point with all this, but either mistakes were made previously or they were made now, or even both, and fixing them isn't necessarily going to be easy, but this is mostly on the dev team right now.


Also, it was always "competes." It was never "crushes into obscurity." This is definitely "crushes into obscurity."

And RME weapons, while very significantly better then normal weapons, didn't have such a large gap between normal weapons and themselves as there is between the new high damage weapons and previous weapons (excluding RME) that there is now.

I don't know how far this is going to go, but pulse weapons from Voidwatch are similar in difficulty to the WoE coin weapons or maybe even harder. Obviously these might not be "special" enough to warrant actually adjusting the items themselves, but acquisition costs will need looked after... again.

-

And as another side thought, the magic changes (lowering cast times and normalizing damage differences between different elements) seemed pretty cut and dry when proposed, I'm somewhat disappointed that wasn't updated with SoA or soon after. This is even more important with high damage weapons now that magic will have to compete with an even higher target.

[Areayea]

I'd be all for that if someone from the dev team came here and said something along the lines of:

"Don't worry, I know it may sound strange but rest assured nothing is gonna happen, we have big plans about your concerns and trust me you won't be disappointed. We have a lot of stuff planned, just wait and see!"

Instead of:

"I'm sorry to hear so many disappointed people, I wasn't expecting it. I'm doing my best to find a solution about this issue, maybe I've found one and it could be this XXX, but I don't know if we'll be able to implement it because we lack manpower. Sorry! Doin my best!"


Do you get the difference, right?
The first is a person who has everything already planned in mind, he was expecting this reaction, everything is going exactely according to his plans.
Maybe I won't like his plans, but at least I know he has one and everything is going perfectly to how he planned stuff.

The second is a person who wasn't expecting things to go this way, not to his degree. In the rush of the moment he worked his ass off to find a last-minute solution, he found one... maybe.
But it's not really 100% convincing so he's still working on it.
Also, he's not even sure if he'll be able to implement it because they don't have many employees and they had different plans and weren't really planning to be needing this last minute solution.

See? How can you trust someone like this? How can you have faith in his ideas, his plans? I have none, at the moment.

XD and that bottom half is something that sounds like something I'd hear at my jobs in CE (where we learn how to sell better) you gotta sound like the professional not the peddler... so he needs confidence >.>

[faco]

everybody stop ff 11 if r/m/e no upgrade and don't buy ff14

[Severence]

I think that is entirely the point; why release these new super delve weapons when you have no idea what you want to do with the old ones!

Thank you, Sir. Well said.

I think it's cool that you wanna release these super weapons. But it's obvious that you guys are not taking into consideration of most casual players (myself included) who work hard to get things done just to have them be obsolete shortly after. If you guys are unsure on what to do with the old stuff... why add even more things? It never stopped you guys in the past has it? I think Balance has completely taken on a new meaning. Sorry to say. But bad move, you guys. Just saying. It has not stopped you all before in the past to NOT implement something because you were unsure how it would affect balance and other players. IE: New SJA and Merits, ect... Or heck even take things away from other jobs IE: Embrava, PD, Cure V and Flash on RDM, Utsusemi: San. The list can go on...

[SpankWustler]

I could see something like the currently proposed adjustment working, even though the exact adjustment mentioned is disappointment given written form.

Maybe part of the other bonuses of the weapons could be imparted along with the Weaponskill. Relics could award a +40 Accuracy or Attack Job Trait when equipped with that weapon type, Empyreans could award their +Stat bonus as a Job Trait when equipped with that weapon type, and Mythics could award their unique bonus(es) is as a job trait.

That wouldn't address everything that's changing, such as people with Mythics being forced to move to much less interesting weapons due to the loss of aftermath, but it would would give people something and show that the Development Bros have some understanding that people don't just make super weapons for the often disappointing weaponskills. Given that the new weapons have super-duper-hyper-crazy-retarded base damage on them, some degree of change is very much intended and probably inevitable.

The change just needs to be akin to somebody shaking the apple cart or tossing a few oranges in it. The current change is more like someone dressed as an orange turning the apple cart over, picking up the apples, and finally throwing those apples at the apple merchant while howling at him that his wife does obscene things with apple trees and making it a point to describe those acts in lurid detail from an apple tree's perspective.

[detlef]

It's true, ever since Scars of Abyssea or so, the game's emphasis has been all about making RME weapons. This is what we've been doing since the Fall of 2010. The whole game revolved around it.

Abyssea took Empyrean weapons to 90. Voidwatch was introduced to take them to 99. Dynamis was revamped to help people farm currency, make Relic weapons, and take them to 99. Salvage was the last event to be updated and it created a large influx of Alexandrite to help people finish Mythic weapons. Along the way, Nyzul and Einherjar were revamped, and this also helped people with Mythic progress.

SE has spent the last 2.5 years encouraging us to make weapons. Anybody who was around at this time should agree. SE was basically telling us to make weapons. The content introduced would tell anybody as much.

In addition, the economy revolves around the events I mentioned. Dynamis, Salvage, and Voidwatch are accessible to almost anyone and are extremely important to the game's economic well-being. Now what, Matsui?

[Numquam]

This game has been around a little over ten years, right? I have paid and put time into this game, right? I mean, yea, sure, there are times when the game has to change, but why like this? You put new stuff out there and hope the player base runs up to you with open arms accepting the gifts you bring. Unfortunately, this is not case this time around.

I mean, what kind of absurd idea is this? This is like a father giving his son a brand new car AFTER his son worked hard to restore the piece of junk he bought. The first stages of REM's are garbage but with dedication and heart, they become something great.

The whole expansion seems rushed. SE, you don't know what is happening or what you are doing. You are just trying to toss things at us and hope we get them and be content. I personally don't own a R/E/M, but I do know what hard work is and how time/money plays into this game. The Magian Trials were awesome and well thought-out. Abyssea was great and well though-out. Its kinda sucks that everything that came after is rushed and leaves the rest of us scratching our heads.

THat's my little rant for the day.

[Pippy]

As someone who paid roughly 150M for a relic and then used 5 marrows back when they were 20M a piece, I can understand peoples frustrations and agree with a lot of the statements saying but what people don't realize is that this game after like 12 years is probably spaghetti code, so they're limited in what they can implement in that aspect, not to mention they have a budget as well.

[Zohno]

they should plan better how to use that budget.
with how overpowered delve stuff is, less people will join salvage, voidwatch, dynamis… even skirmish.
there will be a less income of alex, currency, metals, dross and cinder.
maybe that's why they are thinking of removing REM from the game, so that they don't have to sweat over on how to rebalance stuff?

[Dragoy]

Hrm.

I can't stop thinking: “Really? Like adult's really?”

This certainly is different, and while it is fun to see them go beyond the usual, it's sad that they seemingly seem to simply suggest that these weapons surely should surface never again.
At least lower the requirements of Alexandrite et al, or increase the supply a lot. Something like 100 Alexandrite for the Mythic kind, 10 Heavy Metal for Empyrean. Seems about right, no?

The weapons like to be used, methinks. Should they become useless to the normal players, at least make them more available to the collectors like me, who would actually still use them at times!

Getting pretty confused about their vision of this game. Usually I'm easy to let things they do go, and see what they're doing, but this is going to odd places.

Time will tell, I guess...

[Ashman]

I was asked to post this here by another forum. I have tried to clean it up (the air is a little more relaxed there) and I'm sorry if it's a wee bit out of context.

Also, I would like to point out that I have nothing but respect for the concept of "busting my rear end to do my job and feeling like I get nothing but complaints for my efforts". The anger in the tempo of this comment was aimed at the flippancy of other posters there. Good luck Dev Team and sorry if this ruined your Holiday :/




This just reaks of a sense of entitlement that the current generation keeps thinking that work they've done in the past somehow means they are guaranteed something in the future. Your work in the past was to get something in the past. They aren't taking anything away from you.



Except, I'm the older generation and this makes you sound like an (Censored) idiot. I will gladly elucidate for you.

I understand that relics are easy now or some people had an easier time making them but here goes:

I spent 2 hours farming dynamis (poorly) everyday getting ~200 currency. That's 153 hours of my time spent farming up apoc (JUST FOR 75).
Then the trials. I think it's a conservative estimate to say another 40-50 hours for the trials to 99.
(Censored...... unnecessary vulgar sentence) my time is actually pretty valuable. Ask a college student what an hour costs them. If one of my customers wants to buy an hour of my time, they're paying $50/hour. In 203 hours I'm fairly certain I could begin to learn another language, or re-build an engine (or in theory go buy some mountain dew, play 3 rounds of COD and be rude on an online forum).

Either way 200+ hours is a huge chunk of time to invest into ANYTHING (let alone a game they charge me for). If you took my working value/hour and applied it to this it would cost you $ 10,150 to have me farm you an Apocalypse on the clock. That's a bit extruded obviously but time IS valuable. When I've only got an average of 700,800 hours on this planet (and only half of those are "good") I kind of expect a return on my investment.

Now you're telling me that someone can get something that renders my investment irrelevant with (assuming luck) less than a days worth of work? Yeah, I'm not excited about that. This isn't World of Warcraft. This isn't another MMO. The concept of "everything will be obsolete eventually" was never a part of FFXI, as long as I've been playing (since NA release). If I ever thought relics would be EASILY replaced, I wouldn't have spent the time on it... simple as that.

I also am NOT required to play this game. I do pay for it (in case you weren't aware). I don't use my parents credit card to pay for this account. Being that it is a commodity, or product, it is their job to please me.... in essence I am entitled to demand what I want from this game because they charge me to play it. They stop fulfilling their side of the bargain and guess what:



I stop paying for it



Everyone with their HURPEDY DURPEDY, CHANGE R GUD MAN. I THINK WE SHUD GET 10 MIN WORK WEAPON BECUZ WOW DOZ IT is stupid. If I wanted that I would have played a different MMO. I vote with my dollar. That's my entitlement. If you change my Coca-Cola, and I don't like it; I go buy pepsi (or just drink water, etc).

It's not their "whim" to make this game. It is their job to make content that pleases people and draws them business. A large portion of the playerbase saying "forget this, im out" is NOT good for Square Enix. If you think new people are going to run out and buy FFXI after 13 years because of 300 D weapons, you're beyond help.

tl;dr keep the majority happy and stop trying to reinvent the wheel. You're not going to attract new players after a decade being like WOW, because if they wanted that they'd go play WOW instead long ago.

[Viking]

Ty SE for a long relationship. Lately u become retarded so I think its time for us to part. We spent hours/days/months together farming my 6 emp weapons. Today i learned u betrayed me and all others with theese new weapons. I decided to leave u now. Goodbye

[bryangelos]

I was asked to post this here by another forum. I have tried to clean it up (the air is a little more relaxed there) and I'm sorry if it's a wee bit out of context.

Also, I would like to point out that I have nothing but respect for the concept of "busting my rear end to do my job and feeling like I get nothing but complaints for my efforts". The anger in the tempo of this comment was aimed at the flippancy of other posters there. Good luck Dev Team and sorry if this ruined your Holiday :/





Except, I'm the older generation and this makes you sound like an (Censored) idiot. I will gladly elucidate for you.

I understand that relics are easy now or some people had an easier time making them but here goes:

I spent 2 hours farming dynamis (poorly) everyday getting ~200 currency. That's 153 hours of my time spent farming up apoc (JUST FOR 75).
Then the trials. I think it's a conservative estimate to say another 40-50 hours for the trials to 99.
(Censored...... unnecessary vulgar sentence) my time is actually pretty valuable. Ask a college student what an hour costs them. If one of my customers wants to buy an hour of my time, they're paying $50/hour. In 203 hours I'm fairly certain I could begin to learn another language, or re-build an engine (or in theory go buy some mountain dew, play 3 rounds of COD and be rude on an online forum).

Either way 200+ hours is a huge chunk of time to invest into ANYTHING (let alone a game they charge me for). If you took my working value/hour and applied it to this it would cost you $ 10,150 to have me farm you an Apocalypse on the clock. That's a bit extruded obviously but time IS valuable. When I've only got an average of 700,800 hours on this planet (and only half of those are "good") I kind of expect a return on my investment.

Now you're telling me that someone can get something that renders my investment irrelevant with (assuming luck) less than a days worth of work? Yeah, I'm not excited about that. This isn't World of Warcraft. This isn't another MMO. The concept of "everything will be obsolete eventually" was never a part of FFXI, as long as I've been playing (since NA release). If I ever thought relics would be EASILY replaced, I wouldn't have spent the time on it... simple as that.

I also am NOT required to play this game. I do pay for it (in case you weren't aware). I don't use my parents credit card to pay for this account. Being that it is a commodity, or product, it is their job to please me.... in essence I am entitled to demand what I want from this game because they charge me to play it. They stop fulfilling their side of the bargain and guess what:



I stop paying for it



Everyone with their HURPEDY DURPEDY, CHANGE R GUD MAN. I THINK WE SHUD GET 10 MIN WORK WEAPON BECUZ WOW DOZ IT is stupid. If I wanted that I would have played a different MMO. I vote with my dollar. That's my entitlement. If you change my Coca-Cola, and I don't like it; I go buy pepsi (or just drink water, etc).

It's not their "whim" to make this game. It is their job to make content that pleases people and draws them business. A large portion of the playerbase saying "forget this, im out" is NOT good for Square Enix. If you think new people are going to run out and buy FFXI after 13 years because of 300 D weapons, you're beyond help.

tl;dr keep the majority happy and stop trying to reinvent the wheel. You're not going to attract new players after a decade being like WOW, because if they wanted that they'd go play WOW instead long ago.

Lol i had to laugh at the bold part, because of this,




Edit: You've stopped paying SE. This is the biggest thing I'm taking offense to: You no longer pay them, yet I still do, and you think your word should be worth as much- nay, HALF as much as mine is? I'm still paying them despite the fact they've overlooked every suggestion I've ever given. You stopped paying them and expect them to make expensive changes on your behalf. Logical.

No, you're complaining and expect them to use my money to make changes you want. You're no longer willing to fund the project. Stop telling other people to do the same.


I was told you aren't allowed to have a say unless you continue to pay for your account.

[Ashman]

Lol i had to laugh at the bold part, because of this,




I was told you aren't allowed to have a say unless you continue to pay for your account.

In my defense: I am saying that I still pay for XI and intend to continue to pay for XI pending where the axe falls on this RME issue. However, I am perfectly capable of NOT paying for XI if this madness continues. SE has been getting 1 account worth of payments from me since NA release, and a second for about half that.

I have no intention of playing if RME is no longer relevant (not a threat, just simple fact). I'd say the same to SE as I say to a cheating girlfriend: To me relationships are built entirely on trust and if I don't have trust we don't have a relationship.

[Kayvindra]

"Here we'll let you have the ws after you spend 100mil+ on the weapon, we don't care that you want the damage to be proportionate"

That is my interpretation of it, and if that is how this is gonna work then I know my 4 characters will not be seen in Vana'diel for much longer.

[bryangelos]

In my defense: I am saying that I still pay for XI and intend to continue to pay for XI pending where the axe falls on this RME issue. However, I am perfectly capable of NOT paying for XI if this madness continues. SE has been getting 1 account worth of payments from me since NA release, and a second for about half that.

I have no intention of playing if RME is no longer relevant (not a threat, just simple fact). I'd say the same to SE as I say to a cheating girlfriend: To me relationships are built entirely on trust and if I don't have trust we don't have a relationship.

I agree with you completely you misunderstood i guess, i just thought it was funny you brought up canceling if they don't change. Because i did the same thing and got told if i cancel then they shouldn't listen to me, i should continue to keep paying them and hope they change. Otherwise my opinion was invalid.

[Yinnyth]

If everyone follows your example and unsubscribes, there will be only 1 change FFXI will experience: death. Ceasing to pay for FFXI fixes nothing. It makes the problems worse.

Game no longer fun for you? That's fair, and anyone should be able to make the decision to quit. But if you want changes, help us pay for them.

[Kayvindra]

Paying for an account when they don't listen to anything their players want solves nothing. I think its funny that Matsui thinks that we will be disappointed if they can't follow through with this "idea" when in reality we are already disappointed at the fact that this REALLY DUMB "idea" even came about in the first place.

I'm sick of everyone saying "well that is what every other MMO does." That's great, but I don't want to play those other MMOs, that is why I play FFXI and not the others.

[Kojo]

I read an interview with Tanaka, he said after success of XI, they wanted to do something similar but different with XIV, now Matsui seems to be trying to make XI into something similiar but different from XI.

[Neoclou]

I would love to know/can't wait to see what they plan on doing for Mythics in especially with the fact that Mythic weapon skills are easily unlockable as it is. Already have myself braced for disappointment that I wasted months of effort for nothing.

[Crimson_Slasher]

If everyone follows your example and unsubscribes, there will be only 1 change FFXI will experience: death. Ceasing to pay for FFXI fixes nothing. It makes the problems worse.

Game no longer fun for you? That's fair, and anyone should be able to make the decision to quit. But if you want changes, help us pay for them.

The issue is they arent listening to us, and we dont want to pay for changes we DO NOT WANT to happen. This is no different than any nation's government forcing legislations upon them that they dont want. What happens then? The people whom can move, do. We are simply taking a page from the colonial era and making a stand. "No taxation without representation." Our monthly fees are taxes imposed on us, and those of us whom dont like it and now are really feeling ignored, are out. So why should someone expect us to pay for things others want that we dont?

Also, if a company's sales are down, ideally they should try to create more products or changes that cater to the demands of the consumer, not alienate them with cold unfeeling aloofness and abandonment.

I have 2 99 and 1 90 coin weapons, and 2 85 and 1 80 emp weapon, im not someone big virtually invested in this, but I can see the ripples this is having and dont support it even a bit.

Dedicated players just got snubbed and abandoned, and now you expect them to support the one who did so so utterly and fully, without question? I think not.

[Altimaomega]

Altimaomega@Cerberus
To be cancelled May 6, 2013

I dont wanna do it but you have til the 6th to fix this or im done after 10 yrs. Its been a good run but the direction of the ENTIRE Final Fantasy Franchise has been going downhill for a few yrs now. I had high hope for this new Expansion, thanks for crushing them into nothingness. Unless u show some insight into what your player really want in the next few weeks, I will never buy/play/rent ANYTHING with a Square-Enix logo on it.

[Demon6324236]

That is probably the easier way for SE to accomplish "balance" sooner, but if the weapons were designed for Delve's, the mobs in Delves will have to be adjusted too so they are beatable with current weapons, as it seems they were designed for them, so it's just a re-balance of 1 event vs many events.Thats why I said they would have to re-balance the entire game, because from top to bottom, newest to oldest, everything would have to be rebalanced for the scale of new weapons. Simply nerfing it means re-balancing Delve, and boosting everything else means going back through 95% of the content in the game and changing the stats of mobs and gear alike so you can have real balance.

[Byrth]

Hey SE,

I'm dropping my mule subscriptions as soon as I can move stuff off them. They were only really useful for farming RME stuff anyway. Salvage entry, dualboxing Dynamis, etc. There's no point now, so I'll get rid of them.

If you can fix it before I manage to move stuff off them, maybe there's hope of keeping my money/month. You probably don't have time, though.

Sincerely,
Byrth

[Landsoul]

Landsoul@Quetzalcoatl To be cancelled May 17, 2013

Hope it will be fixed in the future if not GG.

[FrankReynolds]

Altimaomega@Cerberus
To be cancelled May 6, 2013

I dont wanna do it but you have til the 6th to fix this or im done after 10 yrs. Its been a good run but the direction of the ENTIRE Final Fantasy Franchise has been going downhill for a few yrs now. I had high hope for this new Expansion, thanks for crushing them into nothingness. Unless u show some insight into what your player really want in the next few weeks, I will never buy/play/rent ANYTHING with a Square-Enix logo on it.

Sorry to see you go bro. Good times, Good times.

[Vitus]

The world will still revolve without these highly vocal minority. They will come back when emptiness engulfs their souls.

[Oakrest]

Why is this in the "early" stages? Shouldn't something have been thought of when these weapons were created...?

This is exactly why I didn't hesitate to cancel my account immediately. Just so discouraging... like no one there cares.

[Yukihiro]

I think what SE fails to realize is that for the last year or so they really haven't given us much to do except for weapon building via Trial of the Magians and now they are just basically saying (proposing) that it will be a thing of the past and that time and hard work, regardless of if one was upgrading a relic, mythic, empyrean or walk of echoes weapon, has now been completely wasted.

That's the main point of why we're all outraged and SE's shortsightedness to be like other MMOs in the the style of FF is doing nothing short of upsetting the player base. Magians trials are not fun, I'm not saying that in the least but it still gave people something to do and people are proud of the progress they have made with the weapons they made for certain situations and now all that work appears to mean nothing as if SE is proposing they are about to say tough ****, move on with this now or leave.

[Kayvindra]

I think what SE fails to realize is that for the last year or so they really haven't given us much to do except for weapon building via Trial of the Magians and now they are just basically saying (proposing) that it will be a thing of the past and that time and hard work, regardless of if one was upgrading a relic, mythic, empyrean or walk of echoes weapon, has now been completely wasted.

That's the main point of why we're all outraged and SE's shortsightedness to be like other MMOs in the the style of FF is doing nothing short of upsetting the player base. Magians trials are not fun, I'm not saying that in the least but it still gave people something to do and people are proud of the progress they have made with the weapons they made for certain situations and now all that work appears to mean nothing as if SE is proposing they are about to say tough ****, move on with this now or leave.

I agree. I don't understand why they suddenly feel the need to be like every other MMO on the market when the game has been going strong for 10 years the way it is. Like I've said in previous posts if I wanted to play WoW I would be playing that an not this. Please SE, stop trying to turn this game into WoW. I'm obviously not the only player who is not at all interested in the direction you are taking this game.

[Yinnyth]

Paying for an account when they don't listen to anything their players want solves nothing. I think its funny that Matsui thinks that we will be disappointed if they can't follow through with this "idea" when in reality we are already disappointed at the fact that this REALLY DUMB "idea" even came about in the first place.

I'm sick of everyone saying "well that is what every other MMO does." That's great, but I don't want to play those other MMOs, that is why I play FFXI and not the others.
And that is a fair judgement to make. I have had many ideas over the years and SE never implemented a single one of them. They've done some things I've thought were monumentally stupid. If I feel like quitting over this, that's my choice of how I spend my money.

But I'm not going to delude myself into thinking I'm making the game a better place by cutting its funding.

Edit: and I'm not going to accuse you of thinking that way either, I'm just attempting to point out that this is a no-win situation.

[Cyn]

I don't know if anybody, especially SE, has realized what is happening now, is almost exactly what has happened to FFXIV after it's initial release:

1 - People are not paying and supporting this, and are cancelling their accounts
2 - People are consistantly talking about cancelling their accounts, or are in the thought process that if things don't improve, they are going to cancel their account.
3 - Lots of bad opinions from the fanbase. Eventually this can get onto video game publications and websites, which will only increase bad publicity about SE's diminishing reputation as a company.
4 - You still got some, but not many, thinking this is a good idea. Everybody is welcome to their opinion, and if you like it, you like it. But if just as many people like it as much as people liked the original FFXIV, then obviously the future doesn't look good.

So if they are experiencing a bout of Deja Vu at the offices of SE, there's a really good reason. Cause it's not that far off.

[Kayvindra]

And that is a fair judgement to make. I have had many ideas over the years and SE never implemented a single one of them. They've done some things I've thought were monumentally stupid. If I feel like quitting over this, that's my choice of how I spend my money.

But I'm not going to delude myself into thinking I'm making the game a better place by cutting its funding.

I'm not saying that I'm thinking its going to make the game better. If I'm at a point where I don't want to play/pay anymore then it means I've lost all hope that its going to get better. Look at all the outcry about this and all Matsui says is "stats on your equipment can't always be proportionate." To me that's him giving me the big middle finger for all the hard work I put into making my relics and emps and if everyone cancelling their accounts is the only way for SE to see how big of a **** up this is then so be it.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Are you going to delude yourself into beliving that if you stay with them, they will actually fix the mess they made when they werent listening even when we were funding them? In the real world, if the ones funding the programs dont like the results, funding is cut or pulled, how is it different here? If we keep paying like nothing is wrong, they will not listen, if we cut their earnings, they will take notice. Simple as that. If this decision has caused the game to die, let that be upon SE and their determination to remain inflexible and unbending, because im sure plenty of us would accept a rollback and this update being totally undone.

Think what you will, but unlike Yinnyth, i dont pay for things i dont want or need. I dont pay for petfood if i dont have a pet, i dont pay for motorcycle insurance if i dont have a motorcycle, and if paying for the game hasnt made it better, why should i keep paying, especially when the fun in it has left me?

We as a playerbase complain a lot, sure, but usually, its because we want change, but the game is bearable enough to continue playing. So if the minor changes before were totally disreguarded, what makes anyone believe this time will be different?

Ill check back on the forums every few weeks/months after my sub' expires, but I am not going to be herded into the barn and told to be a sheep.

[Nawesemo]

Cancelled x2 accounts x9 characters gone as of May 25th. I don't have a e/m/r 99 (x3 90 empys) and was working toward a relic but this is Horse @$#% . Goals... unfinnished goals, just don't seem worth finnishing if this is the rout this is taking, update wipes out last months progress, then 2 months later that gets obsolete by the next update, ... that is not why I play.. that doesn't make me feel accomplished, if I wanted mario I would play mario, I will miss my friends dearly but I am not happy with the last 6 years of goals wiped out by a single update, to please the not so derpish. I'm no leet by any streach of the imagination but I was happy with where I was in this game, Blm main and fairly content with my progress on my main account. I understand blm's uselessness with new content, but My drk was a work in progress and to have what I did have so outclassed by something that can be bought. No thanks. I worked hard for what I had. again, thank you S.e. for the past 6 years friendships but no thanks to the new hyper hampster wheel you're throwing in the cage.

[Falseliberty]

Lets be honest a lot of you was bored and wanted to quit before the r/m/e mess even started

[bryangelos]

Lets be honest a lot of you was bored and wanted to quit before the r/m/e mess even started

Actually no, my goals were to get a amano to 99 and a yochi to 99. After i finished both of those i was thinking of making a burtgang for my pld. I was having fun doing the new content with the weapons i had built over the years, and going to make more.

[Dohati]

The simplest and dirtiest solution is just tack on +75 or however much onto RME so they're still a little better than everything else. It's still kinda lazy but problem solved.

this is, in my opinion, the 2nd best way to handle the problem. I think they should just nerf all the delve weapons... it's fine if they're still the best, but the margin at which all the new weapons surpass everything prior to adoulin is sickening.

[Areayea]

looking at how to build the weapons tho (the craftable ones)... each one needs an item drop from one of the Naakuals... to craft... I haven't heard of anyone getting the naakual weapons yet... because I haven't seen a single one of the craft items on any ah, so in short... maybe this is going to be that difficult to get those weapons... maybe SE should just make the R/E/Ms match the plasmid ones... but still... IDK, and IDK if anyone knows how hard the naakuals are now/gonna be, maybe the naakuals at their top tiered versions are going to be the next AV/PW...

[Yinnyth]

Are you going to delude yourself into beliving that if you stay with them, they will actually fix the mess they made when they werent listening even when we were funding them? In the real world, if the ones funding the programs dont like the results, funding is cut or pulled, how is it different here? If we keep paying like nothing is wrong, they will not listen, if we cut their earnings, they will take notice.

No, I will not delude myself into thinking that things will change the way I want them to just because I pay them and give feedback. SE has never taken my advice on any topic. However, I am (overall) happy with the direction the game is going regardless of all these game-shattering changes, so I continue to pay them, and I continue to support them.

However, if you stop paying the government because you're unhappy with the roads around your area of town, you lose all right to complain about the roads because you no longer pay for them.

[Areayea]

O.O WHY ARE WE COMPLAINING, I"M LOOKING AT THE GEARS AGAIN AND OMG THEY ALL SEXY!!!!!!!!! excuse my language but still O.O who cares if it's easy mode, this stuff is awesome...

and we all know they're going to eventually boost R/E/Ms anyway...

[xiozen]

No, I will not delude myself into thinking that things will change the way I want them to just because I pay them and give feedback. SE has never taken my advice on any topic. However, I am (overall) happy with the direction the game is going regardless of all these game-shattering changes, so I continue to pay them, and I continue to support them.

However, if you stop paying the government because you're unhappy with the roads around your area of town, you lose all right to complain about the roads because you no longer pay for them.

This argument is horribly, logically flawed and this is how: You are comparing a company that released a product/service that you voluntarily agreed to "Terms and Conditions" in order to participate in/play; subsequently you are paying on a monthly basis.

This isn't about the government, this isn't about roads...

As everyone who has argued against the proposed upcoming changes to R/M/E weapons have already, repeatedly stated... many feel that cutting the flow of the subscriptions towards something they are "not" happy with, should in the long run, garner the attention of the company who released the product/service in the first place to "not" release a modified product or service to a player base that is "not happy" or that is grossly unsatisfied with the direction the company has chosen to take.

If you are actively paying for a product or service to a company and you voice your concerns that the direction the company has chosen to take is "flawed" or lacks appropriate insight based on numerous, numerous customer related complaints, and if the company chooses to continue in the same said direction (which it most certainly can choose to do)....then it is LOGICAL that those who are actively "paying" subscriptions may opt to no longer pay said subscriptions which will of course affect the company's "bottom line" which will of course affect the product or service that was previously benefiting from those subscriptions, which will of course garner the attention of the company's asset management or finance department due to lower monthly income etc.

In the end, its all economics. That being said, as of May 31, 2013 my 10+ years subscription will lapse, and I will no longer play this game until this issue associated with R/M/E weapons that I have dedicated at least 9 months to raising to lvl 99 has been addressed to MY SATISFACTION.

So, in effect... if Square-Enix Developers do NOTHING... then I shall PAY NOTHING. Quite simple really.

[Crimson_Slasher]

No, I will not delude myself into thinking that things will change the way I want them to just because I pay them and give feedback. SE has never taken my advice on any topic. However, I am (overall) happy with the direction the game is going regardless of all these game-shattering changes, so I continue to pay them, and I continue to support them.

However, if you stop paying the government because you're unhappy with the roads around your area of town, you lose all right to complain about the roads because you no longer pay for them.

My membership expires in two days, and as i am still subscribed during this time, i am still considered as a paying customer, and thus until then still have the right to complain. Those days are already payed for so for the next two days i may freely express my complaints as vocally as i like, much to your chagrin.

I understand why some rush to defend these changes, however i dont, and i wont fund the project further just so that you may get your enjoyment from it. If you are worried about the project's funding, you and others can make up the difference, and subscribe to more accounts to offset those quitting.

But urging others who dont like the menu to order anyway and waste money is rude, and blaming the customer for the restaurant's poor menu is pretty naive and nonsensical. The restaurant will improve if their customer base declines sharp enough, or if enough customers complain and refuse to order the food. We have been complaining a long time, and the food still sucks, so ill eat elsewhere. Maybe ill be back in a month or two to try some things, and see if i am enjoying the menu, but at this time, i am not, and its only sated my hunger by its poor quality taking the urge to eat away.

[hiko]

Actually no, my goals were to get a amano to 99 and a yochi to 99. After i finished both of those i was thinking of making a burtgang for my pld. I was having fun doing the new content with the weapons i had built over the years, and going to make more.

I don't see why you no longer have fun doing the content you had fun one week ago.
Does it really matter that the digit written on other people virtual goods are higher than on yours?
if you enjoy playing the game, no it doesn't, keep enjoying the game trying to get em.
if you didn't enjoy playing the game , wtf were you playing this game?

[Yinnyth]

This argument is horribly, logically flawed and this is how: You are comparing a company that released a product/service that you voluntarily agreed to "Terms and Conditions" in order to participate in/play; subsequently you are paying on a monthly basis.

Taxes are voluntary as well. Everything you do in life is voluntary. Are you trying to make the argument that the US government is not a company designed around making money? Government and politics cause so much money flow, it puts any MMO to shame. You pay your government on a regular basis, and you expect certain things in return. If your guy doesn't win, do you move to a new country? No, because that's more hassle than qutting an MMO. And you have your right to quit the MMO if you want. I wish you would stay because I personally think it's still a good game. But you're welcome to your own opinion.

Quit if you want to! I won't stop you. I'll lament the loss of you certainly. But if you quit, stop sticking around here and trying to get other people to quit. I'm still trying to enjoy this game, and it's easier to enjoy if other people play it with me.


If you are actively paying for a product or service to a company and you voice your concerns that the direction the company has chosen to take is "flawed" or lacks appropriate insight based on numerous, numerous customer related complaints, and if the company chooses to continue in the same said direction (which it most certainly can choose to do)....then it is LOGICAL that those who are actively "paying" subscriptions may opt to no longer pay said subscriptions which will of course affect the company's "bottom line" which will of course affect the product or service that was previously benefiting from those subscriptions, which will of course garner the attention of the company's asset management or finance department due to lower monthly income etc.

An interesting, and very long sentence you raise. Tell me: how many things has SE changed because people quit the game over them? Because I can accurately tell you that at least one active player sired the age of cheese sammiches, so at a 0/1 rate, your chances of affecting how the game works are better as an active member than they are as a quitter.

Several people quit the game over Voidwatch drop rates. How many of them came back after pulse cells? How many completely new members did we gain as a result? In the business sense, it's better to ignore such players and focus on appeasing those players who are on the borderline, not over it. Once they've given up, they've given up, and there's no helping it.

[Randnum]

You just said, in effect, 'when you mess up, just focus on who doesn't leave', but this isn't that. This is before the messup. This is 'still time to prevent it'.

And please note it's really really relevant that cheese sandwiches in the game suck even relative to their ingredients. It's not 'affecting how the game works' if you ask for, say, my personal haunt, Conserve MP food for mages, and get a level 102 cooking synth with an ingredient drop from an NM that gives Conserve MP +1.

Damage control.

[Zohno]

is it so hard to understand the value we give to the weapons we took time and money to make?
i think it's not difficult to get that it's a little harder then going to ah and input some digits to find your new shiny weapon in your bag. and don't say it's not the case with delve, because it's what will happen.

we were assured that these weapons would be the best in game, they have been so for years, that's why we spent what we did on those. they have been updated through trials to keep their worth. even salvage gear got its own upgrade with salvage II to repay the effort people took in making them.
i don't see why REM cannot go through the same new upgrade system that was implemented for the new sets.

i think that if REM weren't designed the way they are (or were), most people would have tiptoed toward the ah to get a simple buyable weapon.

now they decide that's ok to revolt against the status quo? i don't know how others feel, but to me it's like restarting a game (weapon wise) because my save progress was deleted forcibly.

ps: lol at "taxes are voluntary"

[Kojo]

After 30 pages of R/M/E complaints, we're complaing about a cheese sandwich now?

[Randnum]

After 30 pages of R/M/E complaints, we're complaing about a cheese sandwich now?

Whatever it takes to get the point across!

Wait, did you get the point?

[Ashman]

Guys listen... I know that no one likes sacrificing their virgin daughters to the mountain dragon but if you keep doing it for generations perhaps he will grow fat and happy and start being benevolent!

[Kojo]

Speaking of Tanaka, I wonder what he thinks. In an interview, he stated that before he left, he wanted to make sure the team had a timeline roadmap to stick to, lately things have gotten VERY un-Tanaka. If he were still at the helm, I doubt damage ratings would ever get this high, and if so, Tanaka's creations, his lasting legacy wouldn't be left to fall into obscurity.

I feel Tanaka is somewhere, either laughing, crying, or shaking his head at the direction this game is going.

[FrankReynolds]

I don't see why you no longer have fun doing the content you had fun one week ago.
Does it really matter that the digit written on other people virtual goods are higher than on yours?
if you enjoy playing the game, no it doesn't, keep enjoying the game trying to get em.
if you didn't enjoy playing the game , wtf were you playing this game?


RME weapons are (occasionally) fun to make, but they are mostly work. When they made new weapons that are twice as powerful, they basically cut the pay for the job.

This is the video game equivalent of switching your pay grade from 20 euros an hour to 20 Mexican pesos an hour and cancelling your pension / retirement fund. Do people still get some satisfaction from a job well done? Yes. Do people get enough satisfaction from a job well done to compensate for the fact that they just took a 90% pay cut and lost all their tenure / benefits? Not by a long shot. Time to look for a new place (Game) to work.

EDIT: For those that don't know, 20 pesos is about 1.25 euros.

[Ica]

ps: lol at "taxes are voluntary"

I got a good chuckle out of this also. I'll have to ask Yinnyth which box I check on my W-4 for the option to have no taxes taken at all!

[Kojo]

I got a good chuckle out of this also. I'll have to ask Yinnyth which box I check on my W-4 for the option to have no taxes taken at all!

Yeah, we CHOOSE to pay taxes like we CHOOSE to breathe, we CHOOSE to consume food and drink, we CHOOSE to go to the bathroom. You may not HAVE to do these things, but there are dire consequences when you don't. Such as, losing your house in the case of taxes, or your life or health on the other 3. (Just pointing that out for anyone who doesn't get it.)

[Rustic]

The simplest and dirtiest solution is just tack on +75 or however much onto RME so they're still a little better than everything else. It's still kinda lazy but problem solved.

While you're at it, get them to do the same thing for Sky gear. It's only fair, we had to camp those for months or years straight and pray we got the drop. Ridill, too.

What, too much?

IMHO, don't just mindlessly upgrade R/M/E. Give them upgrade PATHS.

RME Weapon + three nak/delve drops + bunch of plasm = reforged RME, but the weapon has to be completed to it's pre-Adoulin maximum first. Statwise, they do NOT need to be superior, as long as they keep their unique WS'es and their stats go up to match Adoulin's endgame weaponry. Put a trader goblin out somewhere that takes keeping the way cleared to it's utmost maximum of exploration.

Voila. You've just made the expansion relevant for ages to come.

[Keyln]

If this is going to be a progressive, old gear will, eventually have to be obsolete, including RMECs.


And halt. Pause. Rewind.

My question to the above quote is: "Why?"

I understand your argument about things needing to be progressive. That's fine. But R/M/E aren't subject to this rule. They are (or were) the best weapons in their class. They were the "Ultimate Weapons" of this game, with requirements that, for the most part, reflected such, and were to be the end all weapon for that type.

Why does what the weapon is (in this case, the Ultimate Weapon) have to change? Just because someone says progression can't happen without them becoming useless?

I don't think so. The trials did exactly what was necessary. They kept the Ultimate Weapons where they should be, which is at the top. Just because someone made their Mandau back in 2005 and eight years have now passed does not mean that the time they spent working on it is suddenly invalid.

People bring up this silly argument all the time. "R/M/E can't be the best forever!".

Why not? They were designed to be.

Because it's the nature of the progressive MMO, which outside of sandbox style MMOs such as Ultima Online and Second Life, is most MMO's on the market, FFXI included.

In order to create bigger and better challenges, bigger and better monsters need to be created, which needs bigger and better gear to handle.

This means that old gear that was suited for old content will be made obsolete, just as old content is more or less made obsolete. That includes the most powerful weapons of its time.

Sure, RMECs can be updated to match, but truth be told, it only would postpone the inevitable. The next time that there would be an update, it would make the RMECs obsolete again, and we would have this argument again.

It's the nature of MMOs, and complaining about it does no favor to the dev team of FFXI. It's like complaining that water is wet, or that gravity exists, and wanting someone to do something about it.

With that said, I find it funny that people are comparing this game to a job Protip, guys: If playing a game feels more like a job than fun, stop playing.

[Kojo]

All I can say is that I know this much is true; DNC should be able to use Mandau. No reason not to, especially now. In fact, DNC NEEDS Mandau, so we can be... Mandau Ballet~

[Kayvindra]

O.O WHY ARE WE COMPLAINING, I"M LOOKING AT THE GEARS AGAIN AND OMG THEY ALL SEXY!!!!!!!!! excuse my language but still O.O who cares if it's easy mode, this stuff is awesome...

and we all know they're going to eventually boost R/E/Ms anyway...

Except if you read Matsui's post he says they aren't going to boost them, just make the ws unlockable IF you have the 99 version. He says "sorry stats can't always be proportionate." I didn't work my *** off 99ing my Mandau just to be able to use the ws on another weapon and make my Mandau become an offhand weapon. 100mil just to get 75 version plus another 75mil in marrows? That's a pretty expensive ws.

[Kayvindra]

Because it's the nature of the progressive MMO, which outside of sandbox style MMOs such as Ultima Online and Second Life, is most MMO's on the market, FFXI included.

In order to create bigger and better challenges, bigger and better monsters need to be created, which needs bigger and better gear to handle.

This means that old gear that was suited for old content will be made obsolete, just as old content is more or less made obsolete. That includes the most powerful weapons of its time.

Sure, RMECs can be updated to match, but truth be told, it only would postpone the inevitable. The next time that there would be an update, it would make the RMECs obsolete again, and we would have this argument again.

It's the nature of MMOs, and complaining about it does no favor to the dev team of FFXI. It's like complaining that water is wet, or that gravity exists, and wanting someone to do something about it.

With that said, I find it funny that people are comparing this game to a job Protip, guys: If playing a game feels more like a job than fun, stop playing.

This is the exact type of MMO I DO NOT want to play. FFXI was never in the model of "every patch makes everything prior obselete" and that is what attracted me to the game and if they turn the game into that, it will have lost its fun for me.

[FrankReynolds]

Because it's the nature of the progressive MMO, which outside of sandbox style MMOs such as Ultima Online and Second Life, is most MMO's on the market, FFXI included.

In order to create bigger and better challenges, bigger and better monsters need to be created, which needs bigger and better gear to handle.

This means that old gear that was suited for old content will be made obsolete, just as old content is more or less made obsolete. That includes the most powerful weapons of its time.

Sure, RMECs can be updated to match, but truth be told, it only would postpone the inevitable. The next time that there would be an update, it would make the RMECs obsolete again, and we would have this argument again.

It's the nature of MMOs, and complaining about it does no favor to the dev team of FFXI. It's like complaining that water is wet, or that gravity exists, and wanting someone to do something about it.

With that said, I find it funny that people are comparing this game to a job Protip, guys: If playing a game feels more like a job than fun, stop playing.


They can use systems like evolith and magian trials. They already added magian trials to upgrade all these weapons. There is no reason that they couldn't make new trials that require completion and or drops of new content. The ability to progress and the ability to keep relics powerful are not mutually exclusive.

[Zohnax]

Because it's the nature of the progressive MMO, which outside of sandbox style MMOs such as Ultima Online and Second Life, is most MMO's on the market, FFXI included.

In order to create bigger and better challenges, bigger and better monsters need to be created, which needs bigger and better gear to handle.

This means that old gear that was suited for old content will be made obsolete, just as old content is more or less made obsolete. That includes the most powerful weapons of its time.

Sure, RMECs can be updated to match, but truth be told, it only would postpone the inevitable. The next time that there would be an update, it would make the RMECs obsolete again, and we would have this argument again.

It's the nature of MMOs, and complaining about it does no favor to the dev team of FFXI. It's like complaining that water is wet, or that gravity exists, and wanting someone to do something about it.

With that said, I find it funny that people are comparing this game to a job Protip, guys: If playing a game feels more like a job than fun, stop playing.

Don't post if you do not know what you are talking about. FFXI is not a typical MMO like so many others on the market today. It is the nature of Final Fantasy that the ultimate weapons be just that, especially for the amount of effort required to make them. You people need to stop assuming that R/M/E owners are trying to make everything a standstill in the game, because that is not the case. R/M/E owners have gone through a lot more content and dedicated a lot more time than casuals or lazy people who want to instantly be the best. It isn't a bad system to add a little more effort on R/M/E owners part that requires participation in the same new content in order to upgrade our weapons further to remain the best, and it keeps the entire game alive in the event that other people want to go back and build these weapons, or more weapons. Get it through your heads that gear and these R/M/E weapons are on completely different levels of effort. It is understandable when gear a year or so old gets outclassed, but not weapons that have been allowed to be upgraded this far. FFXI has never moved so fast to outrank the gearsets from the previous update with the next update like every other MMO.

The whole "Tough luck" attitude I see a lot of players posting on forums regarding the whole situation is pretty dumb. There are combined registered on ffxiah.com 36,391 R/M/E. Seems to me, that's a huge portion of your remaining playerbase of a 10-year-old game to tick off and would reflect badly on profits.

[Ashman]

In order to create bigger and better challenges, bigger and better monsters need to be created, which needs bigger and better gear to handle.


So you can wrap your head around them including new content and new weapons, but including a manner to upgrade old gear in that new content is out of your comprehension (Then again RME adjustment isn't particularly relevant to a smn/pup)?

You compare this to "most MMO's on the market" but that's silly and irrelevant. Why change the formula for a game that's been working well for 8 years longer than most others lasted? RME were adjusted to be applicable to level increases, why is this rocket science to you? You can't tell me you think adding a "collect 50k plasma to 99+1 your RME" sounds like a 4 month project.

What good is them saying: we don't have the manpower to do what would keep a majority of our playerbase happy (and paying) because we are feverishly working on BURROW; the new delve that replaced skirmish that replaced reives! We cannot conceive of getting anything done because we're hard at making week old content already irrelevant!

FFXI has been for a long time completely different than other MMO. If you want to change things up, do it after 2 years or 3, not in the twilight years of the game when most of the playerbase is grandfathered in.

[Godofgods]

I don't rly follow all the issues against these new weapons. I understand that a decent amount of time was put into them, but still..

At the 75 cap time, ppl put in tons of time with end game events getting armor. Probably more time then, then they do now to make a weapon. When the game advanced and new content was introduced, those armors were no longer the best. Even with the eventual upgrades. Its just how things evolve. - The situation with the weapons now, is not much different. Ppl are just upset that they have to do more work again. Which i can partially understand.

But ppl quiting because a new weapon came out? Seriously? The company might not like it, but from a players perspective, if someone is going to rage quit over something as stupid as that, id rather have em gone now anyway'

[Caketime]

If your point was a grilled cheese sandwich, I'll be getting it about lunch time.

I can only assume in Japan, at SE HQ, Matsui and his team are working hard on finding a way to shut everyone up, while an intern reads the complaints and takes notes, all of a sudden!! "It appears they are concerned about a sandwich now! We're saved!"

Winner. Your taco will be delivered to you within the next 7-14 business days.

[bryangelos]

I don't see why you no longer have fun doing the content you had fun one week ago.
Does it really matter that the digit written on other people virtual goods are higher than on yours?
if you enjoy playing the game, no it doesn't, keep enjoying the game trying to get em.
if you didn't enjoy playing the game , wtf were you playing this game?

I enjoyed the accomplishments of making the weapons, i was getting a weapon of the highest caliber. If you can't understand the difference one might feel making a 99 relic compared to buying a lvl 10 weapon off the ah then i'm not sure what to tell you. I actually didn't have fun grinding the events to get the weapons, my enjoyment came from actually getting them. Now that they are no longer top tier it feels like i would be wasting my time getting them, its the same reason i don't do campaign battle everyday to get all the the super weapons from doing that, because they aren't good.

[Lotto]

I don't rly follow all the issues against these new weapons. I understand that a decent amount of time was put into them, but still..

At the 75 cap time, ppl put in tons of time with end game events getting armor. Probably more time then, then they do now to make a weapon. When the game advanced and new content was introduced, those armors were no longer the best. Even with the eventual upgrades. Its just how things evolve. - The situation with the weapons now, is not much different. Ppl are just upset that they have to do more work again. Which i can partially understand.

But ppl quiting because a new weapon came out? Seriously? The company might not like it, but from a players perspective, if someone is going to rage quit over something as stupid as that, id rather have em gone now anyway'

You probably don't even own any of those said weapons to say that. Go spend months in dynamis/VW/Salvage or whatever to get a R/E/Ms at 99 and you'll understand how it feels.
Why did SE put trials to upgrade them to 99 if it's just to throw them out now? The problem here is the complete lack of communication and the huge slap in the face every R/E/Ms holders received.
Also what did they promise us? Allow us to use the weapon skills if we build a R/Es to 99? It sure was worth the ~150-200M invested. I'm sure everybody will spam Scourge with their new Great swords.

[Zohnax]

I don't rly follow all the issues against these new weapons. I understand that a decent amount of time was put into them, but still..

At the 75 cap time, ppl put in tons of time with end game events getting armor. Probably more time then, then they do now to make a weapon. When the game advanced and new content was introduced, those armors were no longer the best. Even with the eventual upgrades. Its just how things evolve. - The situation with the weapons now, is not much different. Ppl are just upset that they have to do more work again. Which i can partially understand.

But ppl quiting because a new weapon came out? Seriously? The company might not like it, but from a players perspective, if someone is going to rage quit over something as stupid as that, id rather have em gone now anyway'

If you don't follow, why are you posting an opinion against what people are saying? Go back and read, then make an educated post.

[tyrantsyn]

I don't rly follow all the issues against these new weapons. I understand that a decent amount of time was put into them, but still..

At the 75 cap time, ppl put in tons of time with end game events getting armor. Probably more time then, then they do now to make a weapon. When the game advanced and new content was introduced, those armors were no longer the best. Even with the eventual upgrades. Its just how things evolve. - The situation with the weapons now, is not much different. Ppl are just upset that they have to do more work again. Which i can partially understand.

But ppl quiting because a new weapon came out? Seriously? The company might not like it, but from a players perspective, if someone is going to rage quit over something as stupid as that, id rather have em gone now anyway'

The point is this is like putting the horse before the carriage. They should have had a battle plan already in the works and in the game before they just started dropping higher end more advanced weapon's into the game. It's piss poor design plain and simple.

[Yinnyth]

RME weapons are (occasionally) fun to make, but they are mostly work. When they made new weapons that are twice as powerful, they basically cut the pay for the job.

This is the video game equivalent of switching your pay grade from 20 euros an hour to 20 Mexican pesos an hour and cancelling your pension / retirement fund. Do people still get some satisfaction from a job well done? Yes. Do people get enough satisfaction from a job well done to compensate for the fact that they just took a 90% pay cut and lost all their tenure / benefits? Not by a long shot. Time to look for a new place (Game) to work.

EDIT: For those that don't know, 20 pesos is about 1.25 euros.

Actually, you're still getting your 20 euros an hour. RMEs still do everything they used to do. Amanomurokumo is still every bit as good at stabbing dragons as it used to be, it has not been nerfed down 1/16 power, so your pay has not been nerfed down to 1/16 its purchasing power.

What has happened here is a much easier job just opened up, and it pays 40 euros per hour. But instead of taking that job the first chance they get, people are complaining about how hard their old job was. They don't want some new fangled job, they want their old job and a raise.

[Byrth]

Unlike Armors, SE decided to keep Relics and Mythics relevant from 75 to 99. This was planned and the absurd Magian trials for this purpose were in the game on the day of the cap increase. SE then continued to make the superiority of RMEs a central FFXI design principle when deciding which content to add and how to motivate players to do it. They re-vamped the events that generate Relic/Mythics (Salvage, Einherjar, Dynamis, Nyzul Isle) and used Empyreans to drive activity in new events (Abyssea/Voidatch). They also made comments on these forums specifically pertaining to these three weapon classes and the balance between them.


These factors gave the clear impression that SE was interested in keeping the RMEs relevant and somewhat balanced with each other in terms of effort to obtain and utility (to some degree). JP, NA, and EU players all saw these signs and interpreted them the same way.


So people were tolerating the boredom of nightly Dynamis farming, Salvage farming, Qilin farming, etc. in order to obtain one of the best weapons for whichever job they prefer until the servers shut down. They were not doing it so that they could have one of the best weapons for a few months, and no one would have predicted that RMEs would be totally outdated with this last update. It makes total sense that RME owners would be angry. They used their playtime in a boring way in order to never have to worry about one of their 16 slots ever again on one of their jobs. Now they have to worry about all 16 of their slots again. Perhaps some of them are masochistic enough to not care, or kind-hearted enough to think "well, I can't see how this helps but perhaps it's moving us towards a better play experience for all the players." Realistically, though, this was a kick in the nuts.


Here are some other problems the update created:
* Melee and Ranged, Magic, and Pet damage are further apart than ever.
* The realistic damage potential of 1H and 2H weapons are further apart than ever.
* SE recently reduced Enmity from damage by 70%, but they just increased melee DPS by 40%.
* Now there is no real reason to regularly farm Dynamis, Salvage, Voidwatch, etc. Now the game consists of Delve and Reives.

[BorkBorkBork]

Unlike Armors, SE decided to keep Relics and Mythics relevant from 75 to 99. This was planned and the absurd Magian trials for this purpose were in the game on the day of the cap increase. SE then continued to make the superiority of RMEs a central FFXI design principle when deciding which content to add and how to motivate players to do it. They re-vamped the events that generate Relic/Mythics (Salvage, Einherjar, Dynamis, Nyzul Isle) and used Empyreans to drive activity in new events (Abyssea/Voidatch). They also made comments on these forums specifically pertaining to these three weapon classes and the balance between them.


These factors gave the clear impression that SE was interested in keeping the RMEs relevant and somewhat balanced with each other in terms of effort to obtain and utility (to some degree). JP, NA, and EU players all saw these signs and interpreted them the same way.


So people were tolerating the boredom of nightly Dynamis farming, Salvage farming, Qilin farming, etc. in order to obtain one of the best weapons for whichever job they prefer until the servers shut down. They were not doing it so that they could have one of the best weapons for a few months, and no one would have predicted that RMEs would be totally outdated with this last update. It makes total sense that RME owners would be angry. They used their playtime in a boring way in order to never have to worry about one of their 16 slots ever again on one of their jobs. Now they have to worry about all 16 of their slots again. Perhaps some of them are masochistic enough to not care, or kind-hearted enough to think "well, I can't see how this helps but perhaps it's moving us towards a better play experience for all the players." Realistically, though, this was a kick in the nuts.


Here are some other problems the update created:
* Melee and Ranged, Magic, and Pet damage are further apart than ever.
* The realistic damage potential of 1H and 2H weapons are further apart than ever.
* SE recently reduced Enmity from damage by 70%, but they just increased melee DPS by 40%.
* Now there is no real reason to regularly farm Dynamis, Salvage, Voidwatch, etc. Now the game consists of Delve and Reives.


Everything Byrthe said + They clearly gave no thought to what kind of impact this would have on peoples attitudes in the game. The panicked response they gave us was hastily made up to try to quell peoples rage but only pissed people off more.

[Godofgods]

They should have had a battle plan already in the works and in the game before they just started dropping higher end more advanced weapon's into the game. It's piss poor design plain and simple.

new higher end content, new higher end armor, new higher end weapons... yes.. very poor design indeed. How could anyone do such a thing!?

[Zohno]

Actually, you're still getting your 20 euros an hour. RMEs still do everything they used to do. Amanomurokumo is still every bit as good at stabbing dragons as it used to be, it has not been nerfed down 1/16 power, so your pay has not been nerfed down to 1/16 its purchasing power.

What has happened here is a much easier job just opened up, and it pays 40 euros per hour. But instead of taking that job the first chance they get, people are complaining about how hard their old job was. They don't want some new fangled job, they want their old job and a raise.

let's try with an easier example since it seems so hard to understand. it's like inflation, your 20€ now have half the ability to buy goods compared to before. all the money you have on your bank account that you stored for years fall under the same effect. would you be happy about it?

[Zohnax]

new higher end content, new higher end armor, new higher end weapons... yes.. very poor design indeed. How could anyone do such a thing!?

Simply instituting something new without checks and balances does not mean it will be good. This isn't just about R/M/E owners getting shafted, but it's also about the balance of the game. If you keep R/M/E relevant, you give players reason to go back and do old content rather than depending on keeping players attracted every update. In the same breath, these new weapons have such ridiculous damage on them, if you were to acquire them, you could literally stomp out the rest of the game with little-to-no effort. But if you are going to keep missing the key concepts of why people are upset, you need to scram, kid.

[Cyllene]

unsubscribed.. been a fun run till now.

[Yinnyth]

let's try with an easier example since it seems so hard to understand. it's like inflation, your 20€ now have half the ability to buy goods compared to before. all the money you have on your bank account that you stored for years fall under the same effect. would you be happy about it?

It's not inflation either. Your 20 euros can still buy you 20 burgers just like your relic weapon can still do everything it used to do. It still kills Tiamat just as fast as it used to.

Inflation would be if the whole game got harder.

Edit: I should mention that I can see where people are coming from on this issue. However, putting myself in your shoes, I still would not be upset. It's just my outlook on the game that it's fine if they move away from RMEs.

[Godofgods]

Simply instituting something new without checks and balances does not mean it will be good. This isn't just about R/M/E owners getting shafted, but it's also about the balance of the game. If you keep R/M/E relevant, you give players reason to go back and do old content rather than depending on keeping players attracted every update. In the same breath, these new weapons have such ridiculous damage on them, if you were to acquire them, you could literally stomp out the rest of the game with little-to-no effort. But if you are going to keep missing the key concepts of why people are upset, you need to scram, kid.

I can agree with the doing old content part. But they said they were going to be making certain content extremely hard to the point where players would need such high end armor and weapons to be able to complete it. - Also keep in mind that this stuff just came out. You know there will be adjustments to both equipment and content. So give them some time to see how it plays out before ppl start damming them to hell'

[xiozen]

Because it's the nature of the progressive MMO, which outside of sandbox style MMOs such as Ultima Online and Second Life, is most MMO's on the market, FFXI included.

In order to create bigger and better challenges, bigger and better monsters need to be created, which needs bigger and better gear to handle.

This means that old gear that was suited for old content will be made obsolete, just as old content is more or less made obsolete. That includes the most powerful weapons of its time.

Sure, RMECs can be updated to match, but truth be told, it only would postpone the inevitable. The next time that there would be an update, it would make the RMECs obsolete again, and we would have this argument again.

It's the nature of MMOs, and complaining about it does no favor to the dev team of FFXI. It's like complaining that water is wet, or that gravity exists, and wanting someone to do something about it.

With that said, I find it funny that people are comparing this game to a job Protip, guys: If playing a game feels more like a job than fun, stop playing.

I thought we were talking about FFXI.... what I miss?... as you were explained in DETAIL by Alerith, and as Square - Enix themselves have repeatedly confirmed via update after update and expansion after expansion (prior to the most recent expansion of course)... the "Ultimate weapons" for FFXI were exempt from your assessment.

If FFXI fell into the old cheese mold of "MMO's on the market" then Square - Enix would not have repeatedly updated the Magian Trials to continue to strengthen the Ultimate Weapons, that they themselves have recognized as weapons that require a significant time sink and financial in-game investment to procure.

[Zohnax]

I can agree with the doing old content part. But they said they were going to be making certain content extremely hard to the point where players would need such high end armor and weapons to be able to complete it. - Also keep in mind that this stuff just came out. You know there will be adjustments to both equipment and content. So give them some time to see how it plays out before ppl start damming them to hell'

That's true. People probably should wait, but I think since they dropped those weapons in the .dats, the damage is somewhat already done. That's what I believe is of poor design in that they know people search .dats, so they should have approached the topic a lot more carefully than trying to passively say, "We don't want to do any work."

[bryangelos]

It's not inflation either. Your 20 euros can still buy you 20 burgers just like your relic weapon can still do everything it used to do. It still kills Tiamat just as fast as it used to.

Inflation would be if the whole game got harder.

Edit: I should mention that I can see where people are coming from on this issue. However, putting myself in your shoes, I still would not be upset. It's just my outlook on the game that it's fine if they move away from RMEs.

Problem is the old R/E/M will not be able to keep up in the new content moving forward. So using the euros analogy, your old job will keep you in the old run down neighborhood which everyone moved out of, and you can no longer afford to move unless you quit your old job and get the new job paying twice as much. The biggest problem people are having is they don't want to quit there old job, we all know we CAN, but we don't want to. So yes we are demanding our old job gives us a raise, since we don't want to live in the old run down neighborhoods, since there is a new job out there which pays twice as much and you only have to work 1 day a week.

[Toast3000]

If I missed a post similar to this I'm sorry. I wanted to add some constructive ideas instead of complaints. Here is my solution:

1) All R/M/E can be etched with 1 evolith spot

2) All new weapons obtained in SoA can be 'melted' down to a Rare/Ex evolith that will modify the inscribed weapon to the DMG: and Delay: values of the melted weapon. Stats, weapon skills, hidden effects, etc of the base R/M/E are maintained.

3) Since E 95 and 99 weapons are a lot of effort for only +3/2 more of the stat modifier either:
a) Add a +5/10% associated weapon skill modifier similar to R/M weapons at 95/99
or
b) Increase the aftermath by time or proc % for 95/99 weapons

It seems simple enough for me. Players have to continually play new content and obtain the new weapons to keep their R/M/E up to par. R/M/E do not go to waste, it may not be the best weapon, even upgraded this way, but it's never useless.

Twastar 85 is a great example: Izhiikoh -> Evolith (DMG:108 Delay:200) -> Twastar(85) yields
Twastar: DMG:108 Delay:200 Dex+10, "Rudras Storm" and aftermath
~vs~
Izhiikoh: DMG:108 Delay:200 DEX+15 Accuracy+29 Attack+25 "Triple Attack"+2%

It becomes clearly a choice for the player on how to use their weapon and for what. Evoliths uses an already programmed game mechanic, no new system required for producers. Gives credence to old content and effort while not forcing these weapons to be the end all. Casual players can now play alongside R/M/E holders and have fun with great new weapons. R/M/E become a stat variation is all. Please tell me if you think this idea is decent.

[Richwood]

I am just over it, started doing seekers content (kinda fun to be honest). The delve NMs remind me of the good ol HNM day strats. If my 99 relic go to crap oh'well. I really hope they do not however. I am 10 year player and will just die out with the game. FFXIV maybe.

[FrankReynolds]

Actually, you're still getting your 20 euros an hour.

Except that that $20 is no longer worth as much due to inflation. six of one half a dozen of the other.


RMEs still do everything they used to do. Amanomurokumo is still every bit as good at stabbing dragons as it used to be, it has not been nerfed down 1/16 power, so your pay has not been nerfed down to 1/16 its purchasing power.

Raising monster strength, or lowering DPS both have the same effect. If you have a weapon that does half as much damage as someone else, You are no longer as effective. It's the exact same thing in practice and you know it. Quit playing dumb.


What has happened here is a much easier job just opened up, and it pays 40 euros per hour. But instead of taking that job the first chance they get, people are complaining about how hard their old job was. They don't want some new fangled job, they want their old job and a raise.

No sir, they want tenure and You want to stir up crap. In the future I would appreciate if you could at least make this interesting. Try using memes or something.

On a related note: I am not planning on canceling, but I will probably let my account lapse until they sort this out. Seems pointless working on anything until they figure out what they are going to do.

[Karbuncle]

I don't see why you no longer have fun doing the content you had fun one week ago.
Does it really matter that the digit written on other people virtual goods are higher than on yours?
if you enjoy playing the game, no it doesn't, keep enjoying the game trying to get em.
if you didn't enjoy playing the game , wtf were you playing this game?

I know this is like 8 Pages back but, I wanted to answer your question, cause while its illinformed, its a good question to have the answer too. Basically, Some people have fun in different ways. Enjoyment is subjective, so is accomplishments.

What this means is that the way you have fun, might not be the way other people have fun. Some people have fun feeling accomplished, and working for a goal that will give them a sense of satisfaction and accomplishment, which btw Satisfaction and accomplishment are also very subjective things, like Fun. So, These people who have fun building a character, while playing an MMO, they realize two things in FFXI specifically.

1) RMEC were designed to be/remain top tier. Indefinitely.
2) While most gear will get replaced, the more difficult items generally have a longer shelf life.

So, when the new director releases content that sh*ts on their weapon by nearly 30%, They feel disheartened, Maybe not because of the RMEC being sh*t on, but because they did not sign up for FFXI to run on a perpetual gear hampster wheel set on HYPER SPEED +, Its not what FFXI has been about since its release. Eventually most gear got outdated, but it had a severe longevity.

Plus, Weapons were really the only things massively outclassed... why? I mean look at armor, while some of its clear winners, this always happened. the stats aren't too off base with other 99 armor, and the DEF Values remain about the same... but weapons jumped up, in some instance, 100+ Over their Relics base damage. With this kind of gear grind, most people don't find it fun.

The gameplay itself can be fun if you allow it, but when you come to the cold realization that you're playing an MMO and nothing you do it in matters, you lose motivation to continue playing... The idea is to not let your subscriber know they're wasting time. Shoveling content that obsoletes their gear faster than they can get it is like writting "You're wasting your time" On a baseball bat and striking them in the face with it repeatedly.

In the long run, not everyone enjoys being shoveled on a gear wheel and being told you should keep running cause I say its fun! No more so than you might enjoy making your gear the best it can be. A lot of players work off wanting to be the best, while they still can, at current progression, it would be a near impossible task, and since you guys seems to dangle it around, I will too... Yes, Jobs, Family, so forth... A lot of people in this game are older than they were 11 years ago (Maybe not all, ye darn immortals), so they can't be as hardcore as they used to, and realizing content might be getting outdated in such vast bounds so quickly doesn't appeal to them.

Sorry, I've said this all before and I'm trying to say it clear so it makes sense and doesn't come off super offensive.

Hey... I said trying >:|

[Alerith]

This means that old gear that was suited for old content will be made obsolete, just as old content is more or less made obsolete. That includes the most powerful weapons of its time.

This is where you seem to be misunderstanding.

Mandau, Ragnarok, Almace, Excalibur, Ryunohige....

These weren't just the strongest weapons of their time. They were meant to be the strongest weapons of ALL TIME. Indefinitely, these are to be the ultimate weapons that are not meant to be replaced at any time.

As was mentioned before these categories of weapons are exempt from the rules of replacement. Magian trials have made it so they can continue to be what they were designed to be: The best weapon slot for a job for the remainder of the game.

Newer challenges and stronger enemies appear that require the addition of more powerful gear? Sweet, release the gear. At the same time (SAME TIME. SAME TIME. SE, SAME TIME. Not further down the road.), new trials should be released so that the ultimate weapons get the power up they need to stay the ultimate weapons.

You're comparing unchangeable things like gravity or the wetness of water to something that CAN and HAS been changed: The ability for a certain class of weapon (The ultimates), to scale with the progression of the game.

[Fredjan]

While I know quite a few have no-doubt mentioned this already, I figure I'll repeat it as I want to throw my input into the situation.

@ "Learning" the weaponskill idea;
a) Relic weapon skills won't get the damage +40% boost without using them, and all of them minus a select few are worthless other than SC purposes without the extra damage improvement.
b) Mythic weapon skills are already learn-able without the mythic weapons, making the idea for mythics moot.
c) How do you differentiate the difference between using an empyrean weapon skill with the empyrean weapon or the Walk of Echoes weapon? They don't have any damage bonuses on the weapon skills at all.

Here's my suggestions as a whole on this situation, SE. I'm trying to feel for you all, I really am, but I'm finding it difficult. The WS idea isn't completely awful, I'll admit that, even if I'm not a fan of it in general; we saw that with mythics and we were more than fine with it back then. More than that needs to be done, period, but it's not a horrendous initial thought.

- Give players a KI or something that will enhance the weapon skill damage even without using the weapon. All WS's for relics suck without the damage increase. This isn't a bad idea for mythic weapons either, since people can use the mythic weapon skills already without having the weapons. Of course, keep aftermath tied to the weapons, this much is obvious.

- Give empyrean weapons a damage increase to empyrean weapon skills, and use that as a basis to differentiate the empyrean and walk of echoes weapons. At this point, it's the only way to make the two different.

To the point at hand, though. It's not about the WS's on the weapons. It's about the weapons themselves. I'm more upset the team does not have a solid plan on improving them. As far as I'm concerned, gear that's stronger doesn't need to be implemented until a concrete plan of addressing this situation is made, and the improvements are released as the gear is. We saw this with the level cap increases from 75 to 99, granted level 99 versions weren't ready when the level 99 cap was introduced...they still were implemented.

I can guarantee SE this much right now. If improved level 99 R/M/E weapons were introduced in this update alongside these high damage weapons, no one would be complaining...at least, no one I know would be. As much as I recall them saying they did not want to base improvements on magian trials, it's not a bad idea. It can be quested upgrades, don't really care. It can require obtainment of the new naakual weapons, especially as more types come out, don't care. People want to know the time and effort they spent for years on weapons they believed to be top tier won't be wasted. That's the reason they were seeked so much.

With the initial ideas Matsui posted, it does not address this in any way, shape, or form. In fact I feel it's insulting. I can tell you right now I didn't get Apocalypse just to learn Catastrophe and use it on a sickle and not gain the WS damage improvement and the Haste aftermath. I certainly didn't get Ragnarok to learn Scourge just to use it on a nagan, I got it because it was the best great sword and has been the best ever since Resolution was implemented. Not to mention, the models on the weapons are unique. Why even make all of that worthless just for a weapon skill to be usable when using different models, which are likely just re-used? See why I say it's insulting.

If this isn't addressed overall, I definitely expect a lot of people to call it quits; some I know have already. Some might accept that the R/M/Es have been obsoleted and move on, but I'm sure that'll be a minority; I'm certainly not a part of that. While I realize the player base decides how things cost and SE does not, they still need to consider this. There are people around with every single relic and empyrean. Some people even have multiple mythic weapons, and it's time consuming and expensive enough to obtain one of them, with alexandrite ranging from 600M not that long ago to a more-yet-still-not-reasonable 300M on my server. Regardless, refusing to address these situations will greatly affect people doing older content in general, not just those that are seeking these weapons. People would still do Salvage for Alexandrite even after having gear, people would still do Voidwatch (horrible loot system be damned) for heavy metal plates/pouches, and a lot still do Dynamis to farm currency and/or make gil. With the current situation, these activities will greatly diminish to the point where no one will do them.
PS: Afterglow isn't an improvement to the weapons, so I'm glad they would factor the initial level 99 versions as well. I don't care what anybody says, wasting 50 level 95>99 upgrades for a glow is NOT completing the weapon, it's adding a glow that serves no real use for the user and for anything even remotely close to the effort put in it. Alas, this isn't the subject here, and it really shouldn't be.

I know SE does want a lot of players to engage in Adoulin activities, which is a GOOD thing; however, making weapons that require an immense amount of effort in old content outdated isn't a way to do that. It's one thing to replace AH weapons and some other things; it's another to replace "ultimate weapons". Use the content as a basis to improve the weapons players obtained that were at "ultimate weapon" status for a long time... to even try making them outdated is an insult, especially the level 99 versions, which really should not be happening.

Get a plan in motion, share it with us, and ensure we will not feel like we wasted so much time, and I can guarantee you won't lose players... I'm sure some that have already quit will even return. We're fine with tackling difficult content - we actually WANT that, so for that, I say thanks, SE. You're doing that part right. Delve is tough indeed.

And that is my two gil in the matter.

[Lemoncloak]

As a player, I don't see the point in being outraged until I can see the big picture.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Good foresight is always better than good hindsight.

This could be a problem and needs to be stopped before it happens. That is foresight.

This was a terrible idea, why did we let this happen? That is hindsight.

Foresight keeps tragedy from happening, hindsight is looking on as a victim. Dont be a victim, look at whats about to happen, dont wait for it to happen and regret it.

[Lemoncloak]

Outrage is not foresight.

Your "foresight" is based on things as they are now. Without knowing what's coming down the pipe, what you believe to be outlandish may not be.

Hi2u 99 level cap!





*******************************

You may see problems with this. If you do, I'm sure dev's do too. In fact, odds are they see MORE problems than you do (specifically software related problems). If they do something you disagree with, so be it. It's not because you foresaw something that they didn't. It's that the weights of your concerns were not the same.

[Nawesemo]

it's pretty simple, as many have put, we DO NOT want our "ultimate weapons" to be shelved... the people that have them worked hard for them , and will continue to work hard for them as long as they will always be comperable to the "better" things that can compete with them, they won't have to be the very best but they willlll have to be pretty darn close, I'm sure if 1500 hmp's were the trial to get them comperable (not that i think that's a good idea, but "would if") ... some people would do just that to keep their ultimate weapon comperable to the newly added. S.E. historically hasn't been "easy" granted for some groups much easier than others, but relic's when I first started playing were so out of grasp that they were to be held in awe when I seen one... let alone had the honor of fighting along side one. Restore their glory in some way shape or form, and keep them from being shelved and most holders won't be as emo as I was, I've since came back from my cliff (1 day i know... /facepalm) but my account is due to expire on the 25th... I guess that's my ultimatum date..

[Wyrmnus]

Boy oh boy. Lewis black would have a hellluva good time on the history of this game. He could make an hour show on this game.

[Afania]

What is all this crap about hard work? let me ask you something how many Bandnaroks was there before resolution?
How many are there now? hard work my ass. The only thing people care about is that there e-peen is kinda flaccid now
Mythic owners have been a joked on since day 1, but since you spent 4 months ignoring calls from your friends to hang out at bars, get drunk and try and score tang. You wanna blame SE and not let the game evolve and stagnate.

"God only knows how many other sacrifices in their life over months or years to create an R/E/M"

You might need a guidance counselor and maybe medical help or both. ITS A VIDEO GAME

Having said all that maybe SE should let us know what plans they have in store for us ^^

http://www.ffxiah.com/item/19749/ragnarok

.... hard work indeed

You're beyond help if you think this is just an epeen issue.

Do you think hang out at bars is more productive than playing a video game? No it isn't. It's just a way to have fun, like playing FFXI. I choose to play video game over hang out at bars, because it's cheaper and I find it more exciting, and that's my choice. I don't need you to tell me which choice is superior.

And yes, the time and money I invested in playing a video game, I expect to get what I paid for. If I invest 600 hours(in fact it's probably higher than that if you count other mission requirement) of work for an ultimate weapon that's supposed to be an ultimate weapon(at least it's always been like that), I expected it to be, well, an ultimate weapon. If they changed it, then it's safe to say my valuable 600 hours of work is wasted, since I literally get nothing else out of those 600 hours. 600 hours that I could have use it to make money irl, learn new skill, or play another video game, or even just to do other events in FFXI that may be more fun. I chose to play this video game over doing something else more productive or another video game, and I already know it isn't productive since it's entertainment. So at least I expect to be entertained by the product I paid for, not to feel cheated by SE.

I don't know how you value your time, maybe you don't value it at all. But I do, I think 600+ hours of my time is hard work, period.

[Afania]

You may see problems with this. If you do, I'm sure dev's do too. In fact, odds are they see MORE problems than you do (specifically software related problems). If they do something you disagree with, so be it. It's not because you foresaw something that they didn't. It's that the weights of your concerns were not the same.

No, I think dev underestimated the negative impact and the power of R/E/M emotional attachment(which is more than just stat, but also the look/history/concept) before they make decision like this. They think R/E/M is just another 200~600 hours of work on paper, and if you look at the number it isn't THAT bad. They think they can compensate the players with the WS, which is another mistake they've made, and the result is they're losing customers.

[Nightide]

My LS due to the new weapons that come from delve has almost completely stopped our Mythic climbs. For get the fact that REM requires literal days of grinding. They should at LEAST lower the cost that it takes to upgrade them. 10,000dyna coins, 30,000 alex, 50/50/75empy. This is so laughably absurd i want to give up on the whole freaking game.

[tyrantsyn]

new higher end content, new higher end armor, new higher end weapons... yes.. very poor design indeed. How could anyone do such a thing!?

You know it's bad enough you miss the point the first time. BUt then you come back with this gem and make it apparent you're even clueless about a response to a quote you made. And someone even like it. Which means there's 2 of you out there not reading or paying attention.

[Oakrest]

My LS due to the new weapons that come from delve has almost completely stopped our Mythic climbs. For get the fact that REM requires literal days of grinding. They should at LEAST lower the cost that it takes to upgrade them. 10,000dyna coins, 30,000 alex, 50/50/75empy. This is so laughably absurd i want to give up on the whole freaking game.

At least you get to quit while you're ahead. Think about those of us who completed R/M/E with the understanding that they would always be top tier. Dirty.

[Ashman]

Are they going to scale Judge's gear in case GM have to defeat SoA content mobs?

[Cljader1]

You probably don't even own any of those said weapons to say that. Go spend months in dynamis/VW/Salvage or whatever to get a R/E/Ms at 99 and you'll understand how it feels.
Why did SE put trials to upgrade them to 99 if it's just to throw them out now? The problem here is the complete lack of communication and the huge slap in the face every R/E/Ms holders received.
Also what did they promise us? Allow us to use the weapon skills if we build a R/Es to 99? It sure was worth the ~150-200M invested. I'm sure everybody will spam Scourge with their new Great swords.

I have 2 relics and 2 emps, and I tired of them, everyone has them. There's nothing special about REM anymore, especially emps and relics. The new crafting and delve weapon are the new top tier group, and its about time crafters get there version of crafted relics to call their own. Crafters had to sit idly by while our gear and weapons became obsolete, SE promised to restore us and they finally may have. Crafters should be the ones to make and control the gear output.

BTW there is nothing that states REM's should be the most powerful weapons in the game. First relics were the strongest, then emp where stronger than relics, then mystics became stronger than both of them, now the new skirmish/delve/crafted weapons are the strongest. Its funny how acronym REM was formed, relic owners and emp owners use to battle over which one should be the top tier weapon, and now they put there differences aside, formed the acronym REM in a effort to battle (SDC) skirmish/delve/crafted weapons. In essence this is the 4th installments of ultimate weapons SE is right on time with there installation.

[tyrantsyn]

I have 2 relics and 2 emps, and I tired of them, everyone has them. There's nothing special about REM anymore, especially emps and relics. The new crafting and delve weapon are the new top tier group, and its about time crafters get there version of crafted relics to call their own. Crafters had to sit idly by while our gear and weapons became obsolete, SE promised to restore us and they finally may have. Crafters should be the ones to make and control the gear output.

BTW there is nothing that states REM's should be the most powerful weapons in the game. First relics were the strongest, then emp where stronger than relics, then mystics became stronger than both of them, now the new skirmish/delve/crafted weapons are the strongest. Its funny how acronym REM was formed, relic owners and emp owners use to battle over which one should be the top tier weapon, and now they but there differences aside, formed the acronym REM in a effort to battle (SDC) skirmish/delve/crafted weapons. In essence this is the 4th installments of ultimate weapons SE is right on time with there installation.

This is where I'm going to disagree with you the most. Because the point of R/M/E is that the time invest is suppose to be the reward for one of the top weapon's of the game. It's even been stated like that in many responses from the Dev team when they've spoke about the difficulty in some of the stages of the weapon's.

And while I will agree it's a milestone to hit 110 crafting and crank out a +1 weapon with killer stats. And to be honest that in itself is a milestone end game weapon. It break's everything that R/M/E have been built on since they were introduce. Because you went from months to years invested time to something you can simply buy off the shelf. And that's just bulshit.

[Zohno]

I have 2 relics and 2 emps, and I tired of them, everyone has them. There's nothing special about REM anymore, especially emps and relics. The new crafting and delve weapon are the new top tier group, and its about time crafters get there version of crafted relics to call their own. Crafters had to sit idly by while our gear and weapons became obsolete, SE promised to restore us and they finally may have. Crafters should be the ones to make and control the gear output.

BTW there is nothing that states REM's should be the most powerful weapons in the game. First relics were the strongest, then emp where stronger than relics, then mystics became stronger than both of them, now the new skirmish/delve/crafted weapons are the strongest. Its funny how acronym REM was formed, relic owners and emp owners use to battle over which one should be the top tier weapon, and now they but there differences aside, formed the acronym REM in a effort to battle (SDC) skirmish/delve/crafted weapons. In essence this is the 4th installments of ultimate weapons SE is right on time with there installation.

you are tired of rem because everyone has them? i'm sorry for your weapons and you'll get tired really soon about these new ones, since more people will have them compared to the rem. and there is no M > E > R. each kind has pro and cons based on the job.

crafters should control what armor people use? you are out of your mind.
and if you think these are the ultimate weapons, you are really mistaken.

[Saila]

I am very disappointed with this update all the effort my friends and i worked on together is wasted to get our empy/relics to 99. I really do enjoy the expansion , nothing is wrong with it but killing REM is just lame move from you se.

[detlef]

I have 2 relics and 2 emps, and I tired of them, everyone has them. There's nothing special about REM anymore, especially emps and relics.There is more to owning an ultimate weapon than just having something that others don't.

[Cljader1]

you are tired of rem because everyone has them? i'm sorry for your weapons and you'll get tired really soon about these new ones, since more people will have them compared to the rem. and there is no M > E > R. each kind has pro and cons based on the job.

crafters should control what armor people use? you are out of your mind.
and if you think these are the ultimate weapons, you are really mistaken.

Over 8 years I spend at least a billion gil to get my 4 crafts over +100, and so did many other hard core crafters, so where is our reward?? People use to laugh at the material crafters could make and rare/ex equipment killed most crafted gear. Its way past time the crafting community gets its day in the sun. Goldsmithers had to lvl on hexed gear on the road to 110 with 2-5 mil gil loss per synthesis and the same for blacksmiths, we damn sure deserve to have a gaint reward at the end of the rainbow. The ONLY way for crafting to get its respect is to give us material that highly desired and material that's among the strongest items in the game

[Cljader1]

There is more to owning an ultimate weapon than just having something that others don't.

I agree with you, however I took up crafting so I can produce powerful items that no one else has. Moreover, for anyone who gave up alot of there social play to dedicate themselves to lvl a craft should be handsomely rewarded for there hardcore and dedication. I believe that hard work and dedication now allow accomplished crafters to produce crafted relic weapons.

[Daniel]

I agree with you, however I took up crafting so I can produce powerful items that no one else has. I think that for anyone who gave up alot of there social play to dedicate themselves to lvl a craft should be handsomely rewarded for there hardcore and dedication. I believe that hard work and dedication now allow accomplished crafters to produce crafted relic weapons.

Your hard work and dedication was much less than it took to get a mythic, if we don't deserve anything, why on earth should you. Also crafters made off like bandits, 20-100 mil profit on single pieces of HQ gear over the last year or so, in that light I really couldn't care less if you didn't get rewarded, if you didn't its your own fault.

Doesn't really matter though, SE spent all that time updating old content to be relevant at 99 and then shoved 99% of it down the drain with this update. This game can't compete with wow, I don't know why they are trying to be wow. If I wanted to replace my equipment every 4 months I'd just play that.

[Cljader1]

Your hard work and dedication was much less than it took to get a mythic, if we don't deserve anything, why on earth should you. Also crafters made off like bandits, 20-100 mil profit on single pieces of HQ gear over the last year or so, in that light I really couldn't care less if you didn't get rewarded, if you didn't its your own fault.

Doesn't really matter though, SE spent all that time updating old content to be relevant at 99 and then shoved 99% of it down the drain with this update. This game can't compete with wow, I don't know why they are trying to be wow. If I wanted to replace my equipment every 4 months I'd just play that.

I have 2 relics and 2 emps, they are not that hard to get. Moreover if you compare this to goldsmithing its not even close, getting goldsmithing to 110 is a far harder than obtaining a Emp or Relic, there are ALOT more relic and emp holders than there are 110 lvl smithers and goldsmithers. Plus crafting is about the gear not entirely about the money, no crafter wants the pinnacle of there craft to be mediocre equipment with sorry stats. Thats an embarrassment..

Plus relic weapons was on top for over 6 years you have 6 years to have the best weapon in the game, now its time for more powerful weapons to emerge and you should embrace that.

[tyrantsyn]

I have 2 relics and 2 emps, they are not that hard to get. Moreover if you compare this to goldsmithing its not even close, getting goldsmithing to 110 is a far harder than obtaining a Emp or Relic, there are ALOT more relic and emp holders than there are 110 lvl smithers and goldsmithers. Plus crafting is about the gear not entirely about the money, no crafter wants the pinnacle of there craft to be mediocre equipment with sorry stats. Thats an embarrassment..

Plus relic weapons was on top for over 6 years you have 6 years to have the best weapon in the game, now its time for more powerful weapons to emerge and you should embrace that.

You know the underlying point here is reward. You feel what has happen is well deserved considering the amount of time you've put into your crafting. And probably feel great about the fact that you are in a great spot to start cranking out some of the best weapons of the game. It's is a hell of accomplishment and I'm sure you'll make all your investment back and then some.

Yes with a stupid amount of gil you could knock out a 75 Relic pretty quick these day's. And yes with the right help a stage 85 emp isn't a big deal to some. But when you say "Not that hard to get" to a guy with a stage 99 weapon... You're not going to be look upon fondly by anyone here.

[Daniel]

I have 2 relics and 2 emps,

First of all, I said mythic is harder to get, you don't own a mythic, its also clear you don't have a 110 craft, additionally I wouldn't be surprised if none of your emps or relics are 99. You want to know how to get a 110 craft? You buy a bot to fish for you, then you buy a bot to watch the AH for you and buy mats, then you buy a bot to craft for you. 110 crafting, congratulations and good job.

In addition to that what about people like me who leveled a craft other than goldsmithing or smithing, they don't get to craft weapons better than relics? Also try looking up Legion gear, see if you still think crafters didn't get a chance to make the best gear.

[Karbuncle]

Not to mention, Even if have all the gil and currency for your Relic, It'll take about 2 weeks to actually get it, because thats about how long the goblin takes to fix up all the stages :D.

You could probably burn one of these Delve weapons in... 450 Minutes, assuming 3500 Points a run, and giving ample downtime between runs. So, You could get a delve weapon in a single days worth of work too. Just throwing that out there. Delve weapons are actually take less time to get than a 75 relic even if you have all the currency :D

[bryangelos]

I have 2 relics and 2 emps, they are not that hard to get. Moreover if you compare this to goldsmithing its not even close, getting goldsmithing to 110 is a far harder than obtaining a Emp or Relic, there are ALOT more relic and emp holders than there are 110 lvl smithers and goldsmithers. Plus crafting is about the gear not entirely about the money, no crafter wants the pinnacle of there craft to be mediocre equipment with sorry stats. Thats an embarrassment..

Plus relic weapons was on top for over 6 years you have 6 years to have the best weapon in the game, now its time for more powerful weapons to emerge and you should embrace that.

sorry just a quick question, both of your relics and both of your emps are 99?

[Cljader1]

sorry just a quick question, both of your relics and both of your emps are 99?

Of coarse they are both 99, and that is Apoc and Rag for my drk...getting it from 95 to 99 is just a gil sink, my emps are calabolg and redemption at 90 (no need to further these because apoc and rag are far better). I was one of the first too get apoc to 99 on my server and as soon as a couple of months ago I completed rag to 99 and you see I'm not bitter about the changes. Its time I move on from these weapons, I do admit liberator was the next goal on my list, but now my attention has shifted and its for the better.

[Karbuncle]

Its not just a Gil Sink, personally me and every 99 in my Linkshell (About 30+ of them) Were gotten from doing ADL Every week for a months on months.

Maybe you bought your 99, but thats not the path everyone takes.

Edit: not that i discount the rest of your argument, Just pointing out its not as black and white.

[Nawesemo]

:/ does it matter what level they are? the point being that they're less likely to ever get them to where they wanted becuase they're for a lack of a better word... now worthless. Goals, progression, and feeling accomplishment of something grand is what alot of this is about. I feel like alot of the reason for me logging in day after day was just crapped on by the developers and scoofed at with the latest "oh but we may let you use the weaponskill" brain fart. Did I enjoy the grind to get there, no not really, did i like the idea of finnishing? you bet your @#$ I did. I love playing with my friends, and doing things that we couldn't alone in this game, but my goals were just swept asside with alot of this update, Delve and skrimish is fun as hell, but without the journey associated with what I was after (relic's and empy's 99 and being top tier weapons) ... it's not the same.... for me anyway.

[Zohno]

I have 2 relics and 2 emps, they are not that hard to get. Moreover if you compare this to goldsmithing its not even close, getting goldsmithing to 110 is a far harder than obtaining a Emp or Relic, there are ALOT more relic and emp holders than there are 110 lvl smithers and goldsmithers. Plus crafting is about the gear not entirely about the money, no crafter wants the pinnacle of there craft to be mediocre equipment with sorry stats. Thats an embarrassment..

Plus relic weapons was on top for over 6 years you have 6 years to have the best weapon in the game, now its time for more powerful weapons to emerge and you should embrace that.

if you can say that they are easy it can only mean that you easily bought your way to 99, and if you did, it means that your crafts already gave a good return for your investment.
moreover if you wanna craft what people desire then the mats will not be cheap. never been before and will not change now.

[Cljader1]

if you can say that they are easy it can only mean that you easily bought your way to 99, and if you did, it means that your crafts already gave a good return for your investment.
moreover if you wanna craft what people desire then the mats will not be cheap. never been before and will not change now.

The last part I agree with, materials will be crazy expensive and breaks will be devastating, but thats the challenge that lies ahead. But the mere ability to craft such a weapon is what I am excited about, and +1 may actually be one of a kind. I remember they days where signing high end equipment actually meant something, and maybe just maybe those days have finally come back.

[Teraniku]

Really the easiest way to do this is for the Dev team to create a new tier of super weapons and have everyone trade up.

Advantages:

- RUN and GEO get added
-Unlock Relic and Empyrean weapon skills by trading weapon with WS unlocked to the "Unlocking a Myth" guy.
-Dev team only has one set of Ultimate weapons to balance top end content to, instead of the 3.5 we have right now.
-Doesn't destroy the Dynamis currency, Alexandrite, WoE Coin, or VW because you can only trade up a lvl 99 relic, Mythic, or Empyrean for the new one.

Disadvantages:

-Would have to wait for the new weapons to be introduced.
-Sentimental value of the weapons

[ReplicaX]

New / "Replacement" weapons that can take a few days to obtain Vs R/E/M that take months to 99 is a complete insult, period.

SE should raise R/E/M dmg with no further requirements as the time/money investment was enough to 99.

These new weapons don't fix much for many jobs as some actually depend on the WS/AM from R/E/M. Sword and Katana come to mind and wouldn't ya know, they are the Top 2 owned Empys.

There is no reason why the old and the new can't co-exist at the Top Tier. It gives ppl more options on what path to decide and doesn't stop ppl from doing Delve.

[Cljader1]

New / "Replacement" weapons that can take a few days to obtain Vs R/E/M that take months to 99 is a complete insult, period.

SE should raise R/E/M dmg with no further requirements as the time/money investment was enough to 99.

These new weapons don't fix much for many jobs as some actually depend on the WS/AM from R/E/M. Sword and Katana come to mind and wouldn't ya know, they are the Top 2 owned Empys.

There is no reason why the old and the new can't co-exist at the Top Tier. It gives ppl more options on what path to decide and doesn't stop ppl from doing Delve.

Every time SE adds new jobs they also add new set of ultimate weapons, thats the pattern. Furthermore, the newer job never has access to the prior ultimate weapons, and if SE adds another set of new jobs you can count on yet another installment of super weapon everyone should have predicted this to happen. However I do have a feeling SE are not done with REMs, even though Im tired of them myself, I bet enhancements are on the way.

[ReplicaX]

Every time SE adds new jobs they also add new set of ultimate weapons, thats the pattern. Furthermore, the newer job never has access to the prior ultimate weapons, and if SE adds another set of new jobs you can count on yet another installment of super weapon everyone should have predicted this to happen. However I do have a feeling SE are not done with REMs, even though Im tired of them myself, I bet enhancements are on the way.

If they follow the standard of the past ToAU+ jobs. RUN and GEO will at least get a Mythic besides these new weapons.

[Daniel]

If they follow the standard of the past ToAU+ jobs. RUN and GEO will at least get a Mythic besides these new weapons.

These are not the new super weapons, these weapons are easy to obtain, quite literally just did a 5 min fight and got a better GS than a relic, and they always drop. Also the final "boss" fight delve that drops the super charged weapons as well as the crafting items drops 2+ per kill. These are not super weapons, we are just having our REM replaced by run of the mil easy drops.

[Cybermario]

Every time SE adds new jobs they also add new set of ultimate weapons Everytime SE add new jobs they trash content of previous expansions too? dont think so, at elast when they did they made adjustments.

If they go on with this idea of unlocking the weapon skills is not just R/E/M what will be affected, but a lot of endgame content like Salvage, Neo Dynamis etc. Also game content such as Magician Trials will be obsolete, not just for Empyrean trials, why bother with a fire Thokcha when you can save a couple millions and buy one of the new nifty daggers?

Sure, MMO's have and must evolve, the difference is how they evolve. If the developers go on with this idea there is a lot of fixes they have to do to keep old content and trials relevant, something im sure they have have not given the proper thought to this.

[Byrth]

If anyone is interested in some statistics on this change, I clicked on likely-looking thread titles on the large NA forums and added up the posts. Then I randomly picked 300 posts (10 pages) from different forums and went through marking whether the were positive about the changes, hated them, or were offtopic.

This is the 3,824th post about the RME-hierarchy change (afaik).

Of my 300 post subsample:
53% hated the changes
7% were positive about the changes
40% were offtopic or otherwise disqualified (meme pictures, posts that didn't express an opinion, posts that were so poorly written that I couldn't make myself read them, etc.)

[Kylos]

I feel like my post may be lost in the overflow of this thread but here goes.

As a player who has been around for about nine years, this game has undertaken a lot of different changes. I have seen people take advantage of bugs, monopolize markets and NM, and RMT running rampant all over the place. The community has changed over time as well, and it feels like a lot of those who are angry with these changes, are not fully understanding why it had to be done.

When the level cap increased, we got new gear, however the stats acquired on these pieces of equipment were not massive, they were in much smaller increments.

The recent weapons that were introduced look like weapons a real level 99 would wear, whereas a level 99 R/E/M look more suited to a level 85.

I just recently made a Ragnarok, after acquiring two empyeans, the Redemption and Armageddon. Redemption was purely for my love of scythes, however Quietus is incredibly weak, and due to not having a healing WS like Apocalypse does, Redemption is mostly a glorified staggering piece in Voidwatch. Armageddon on the other hand was extremely good, but it has also been blown away. My main job is Dark Knight though, so I set out to get their best weapon, the Ragnarok. Two days after getting my first ever relic to 95, these new weapons come out with absolutely ridiculous damage values.

I am not angry, I am not even frustrated, because the relic I have is helping me get into events I may have been turned away from before (When I was using OAT Fulgurante). However, as soon as I find the time to really get into Delve (only done a few so far) and get a new weapon, my Ragnarok that I spent about 100 million on, will be in the same boat as my Redemption, but even worse as there would be no point in using it at any point.

I wanted to 99 my Ragnarok, but I am not sure whether I should save my money for it. The lack of a firm response is disturbing to a lot of people, as they cannot be sure what their priorities going forward should be.

Just a suggestion, but maybe something in Seekers could upgrade level 99 R/E/M? This is my train of thought.

Example

1) Make a Relic, upgrade it to 95.
2) Become a pioneer, work on Delve, Reives, Wildkeeper etc until you find a better weapon.
3) Use that new weapon to get a top of the line Seekers weapon.
4) Introduce a new area like Dynamis, but in Seekers of Adoulin, where players can make a decent amount of gil that can be used to buy Umbral Marrows/Heavy Metals, give new job specific gear, and make NM in the area that drop an item similar to Attestation/Fragments that will upgrade the damage stat on the weapon they choose.

In this manner, regular players can work towards getting Seekers Weapons without getting R/E/M by waiting for everyone else to become stronger, and allow more casual players to join Delve without R/E/M. At least this way, casual players can still make a decent weapon by playing the new content, but those who went out of their way to create level 99 R/E/M will ultimately be rewarded, and be stronger.

Certain R/E/M are incredibly weak compared to others, so it would give you guys a good chance to give certain weapons a fighting chance, and it may encourage certain weapons rarely made to get worked on.

I am going to hope and have faith in the team. I am happy with the new content, and don't have any complaints over it, I just hope my hard work put into obtaining my Relic was not a complete waste of my time. Peace.

[BahamutFURYZERO9999]

I'm gonna write a lot of words about FFXI! I've never posted here before and usually ignore community stuff but aw heck I'm gonna post my idea anyway.

I understand the need for new gear, and pushing stuff to skyrocketed damage tiers sounds like it could be super exciting, but my concern is that it basically will completely kill all old content. People will see no reason at all to do Relic, Mythic, or Empyrean quests, instead just opting for this delve system.

The reason I personally love REM weapons are for the quest, and the journey. Unlike a lot of people, I don't feel that new weapons will take those times away. Working toward that kind of gear was a great time, and I always encourage people in my LS to try it and go for it, even though some think it's too daunting.

So why not make it so there's a brand new weapon tier, but include REMs in that quest, that journey, to make them?

If you want to go with monstrous weapons, use these ones as a base, and let players trade in their REMs to power it up even more. I use a Mandau on my thief, so how about giving me the ability to 'merge', so to speak, my mandau into this new dagger to make it even MORE powerful. Heck give it a new design to, some sort of frankenstein mandau-new dagger hybrid.

Then let me do it with a Vajra and a Twashtar as well, if I wanted to. Merge all 3 into this new dagger to create the almighty-ultra-mega-boss-top-dagger, that has the aftermath of all 3 weapons in one. It would be ridiculously powerful, but hell that's what you get if you 99 a Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean dagger and combine them into one.

You can do these as new models even, and do them in stages so you can use them partway through.
Dagger+Relic
Dagger+Mythic
Dagger+Empyrean
Dagger+Relic/Mythic
Dagger+Relic/Empyrean
Dagger+Empyrean/Mythic
Dagger+Relic/Empyrean/Mythic

Add Delve/Skirmish/Reive/whatever trials you want, and this drives players into your new content and new gear, but also keeps players doing your OLD content. Keeping players in your old content prevents what happens to a lot of other MMOs, where it just becomes a weird ghost town in the old events.

This gets players into a whole new tier of weapons and gear, doesn't poison the players that made REM, opens up potential for trials and people doing content in the new expansion AS WELL AS the old expansion, and creates a brand new 'ultimate' tier of weapons that long-term players can get fired up about and work toward.

This sounds like a great idea! This idea could even be extended by doing the same thing but with the body armor. For example the player could combine the Phorcy's, Ares' +1, Enif, Ogier's, Hrafn/Huginn and the 2 new heavy armor sets from Reives and Delve into the "almighty-ultra-mega-boss-top-" heavy armor. They could also do the same thing with the new AF sets (if they decide to release new AF sets).

Now for the rant. This the first post I've ever made in these forums and that can either be a good thing or a bad thing. In case... it's a bad thing. I played FFXI for 3 years back when the hardest events were Odin I and HNMs but then quit due to my LS going dead. Relics/Mythics weren't accessible to a player like me back in the day because I wasn't good at making Gil and the fact that no one would help me. So I came back in August 2012 for a few main reasons. One of this reason being that I could solo my own Relic/Empyrean weapons and get a Mythic with only 3 people. I had planned to get 14 relics, 1 mythic, and 14 empyrean weapons. I currently have a level 80 Caladbolg with 18 or so lanterns left to go til the level 85 form and I have yet to start a Relic or Mythic. Along with getting R/M/E weapons, I wanted to do all of the cool (I thought they were cool) new content like Legion, Odin II, Arch Dynamis Lord, Arch-Omega/Ultmia, Voidwatch, Abyssea, Neo Nyzul Isle, and Neo Salvage. I have yet to do Arch Dynamis Lord, Arch Omega/Ultima, Legion, and Odin II. So when I saw these new insanely high damage weapons from Delve, I got worried. Then when I heard that they were going to boost the R/M/E weapons, I was happy because my ambitious goals didn't die after all, and then I see this... now i'm back to worrying. If they don't do something to make the R/M/E weapons relevant and highest damaging weapons again I'll probably end up quitting the game again, which I don't want to.

Please, I advise you to use Gaspode's idea and my idea Square Enix. This suggestion would basically solve the current problem and future problems by simply adding a trial to combine the 4 dagger combination with the next set of weapons you guys release. Not only would the players strive to obtain the best weapons/gear but it would also solve the inventory space problem too and get players back into doing the old content again. Having to only carry 1-3 sets of armor (1 for each type of armor) and 16 weapons instead of 52 weapons (16 for Relics/Empyreans and 20 for Mythics).

Not only would this solve the current rage out burst but this will more than likely keep players playing longer, which means more money in your pocket. If you were to implement this system that Gaspode and I have suggested it would be greatly beneficial to you. For example, a player that has the Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean daggers would decide to combined them with the new dagger to make the ultimate dagger, then they'll think "Hmm, I should probably make a 2nd dagger for my THF.." then they'll go back and build another Relic and Empyrean dagger (the reason I leave out the Mythic dagger is cause it's unlikely that someone will build another one just because of how long it takes to get a Mythic vs R/E weapons) and get another new dagger so they can combine it with the R/E daggers to make the best offhand dagger. It would also encourage more people to start building Mythics which take a lot longer than either a Relic or Empyrean to make, which means, once again, more money in your pocket.

[Malphius]

This sounds like a great idea! This idea could even be extended by doing the same thing but with the body armor. For example the player could combine the Phorcy's, Ares' +1, Enif, Ogier's, Hrafn/Huginn and the 2 new heavy armor sets from Reives and Delve into the "almighty-ultra-mega-boss-top-" heavy armor. They could also do the same thing with the new AF sets (if they decide to release new AF sets).

Now for the rant. This the first post I've ever made in these forums and that can either be a good thing or a bad thing. In case... it's a bad thing. I played FFXI for 3 years back when the hardest events were Odin I and HNMs but then quit due to my LS going dead. Relics/Mythics weren't accessible to a player like me back in the day because I wasn't good at making Gil and the fact that no one would help me. So I came back in August for a few main reasons. One of this reason being that I could solo my own Relic/Empyrean weapons and get a Mythic with only 3 people. I had planned to get 14 relics, 1 mythic, and 14 empyrean weapons. I currently have a level 80 Caladbolg with 18 or lanterns left to go til the level 85 form and I have yet to start a Relic or Mythic. Along with getting R/M/E weapons, I wanted to do all of the cool (I thought they were cool) new content like Legion, Odin II, ADL, and Arch-Omega/Ultmia. So when I saw these new insanely high damage weapons from Delve, I got worried. When I heard that they were going to boost the R/M/E weapons, I was happy because my ambitious goals weren't dead after all, and then I see this... now i'm back to worrying. If they don't do something to make the R/M/E weapons relevant and highest damaging weapons again I'll probably end up quitting the game again, which I don't want to.

Please, I advise you to use Gaspode's idea and my idea Square Enix. This suggestion would basically solve the current problem and future problems by simply adding a trial to combine the 4 dagger combination with the next set of weapons you guys release. Not only would the players strive to obtain the best weapons/gear but it would also solve the inventory space problem too and get players back into doing the old content again! Having to only carry 1-3 sets of armor (1 for each type of job) and 16 weapons instead of 52 weapons (16 for Relics/Empyreans and 20 for Mythics) would be great!

The reason it had to be done was because of "R/E/M Only" mentality. You leave out a large portion of the player base with the new expansion. Every time something new is released SE tries to catch up others who may have not had the time to progress to the point that others have. The biggest mistake SE made was making legendary weapons so "easy" to get. You only saw a hand full of them up until abyssea and neo dynamis. Now nobody will let you go with them if you don't have one. It sucks yeah but if you don't give a way for the rest of the community to keep up the player base will start to drop off.

I really doubt that SE will not be buffing R/E/M down the line.

[Zohno]

The reason it had to be done was because of "R/E/M Only" mentality. You leave out a large portion of the player base with the new expansion. Every time something new is released SE tries to catch up others who may have not had the time to progress to the point that others have. The biggest mistake SE made was making legendary weapons so "easy" to get. You only saw a hand full of them up until abyssea and neo dynamis. Now nobody will let you go with them if you don't have one. It sucks yeah but if you don't give a way for the rest of the community to keep up the player base will start to drop off.

I really doubt that SE will not be buffing R/E/M down the line.

i still don't get the problem about the REM only mentality. who decides this? the leader of the random pickup group? then why don't people organize their own event and pick anyone they want? maybe because even those people who don't own a REM will shout for REM only players?

please stop this victimism, crying at REM when the real problem are the players.

[Malphius]

i still don't get the problem about the REM only mentality. who decides this? the leader of the random pickup group? then why don't people organize their own event and pick anyone they want? maybe because even those people who don't own a REM will shout for REM only players?

please stop this victimism, crying at REM when the real problem are the players.

It's not the players. R/E/M have a very clear advantage and are needed for the hardest content. I'm not blaming the weapon or the players. It's just the way the game has evolved. After Abyssea and Neo Dynamis many had a legendary weapon and so they adjusted the content from there accordingly.

[Duelle]

I find it baffling that some people are so attached to weapons that are designed as long term projects, and while SE has made attempts to keep said weapons relevant, there will come a time where they will have to be phased out for better equipment. That's how progression works, and regardless of the millions of gil or hours spent putting it together it's for the good of the game to reset the playing field and allow people to aim for something new.

That being said, Matsui's proposed idea leaves a couple of questions. Firstly, whether the first step into Adoulin content will entirely be balanced around 99RMEC weapons.

Secondly, if in accordance to these weapons no longer being the best, will acquisition of the components see improvements and/or the amount of items/kills required to upgrade RMEC weapons be adjusted.

In some cases the WS are nothing special, while in others said WS have been on/off switches for viability (PLD with Atonement, DRG with Drakesbane, RDM with Chant du Signe), so being able to unlock them for general use would be a wash, IMO.

[Zohno]

i don't understand the people who say that rem gotta be phased out. what has to be fased out? the name? wanna call it differently? go ahead if makes you happier.
what we want, or better, i want since i don't wanna speak for the others, is for a new weapon, call it r, e, m or with any other letter you like to use, that requires one of the old weapons to be built, with new or improved stats based on the base one. want to have the best weapon? you'll have to go through the phases required to build one. want it the easy way? get those offered by delve.
as i already said in previous posts, the system has been already been built. the new equip requires plasma to rank up. the same system could be used to rank up the rem.
and a "we don't have enough man power" when, in the last years, the same amount of players (or more since the expansion came out) are still paying the same monthly fee that has been set 10 years ago, is not acceptable.

[Zumi]

i don't understand the people who say that rem gotta be phased out. what has to be fased out? the name? wanna call it differently? go ahead if makes you happier.
what we want, or better, i want since i don't wanna speak for the others, is for a new weapon, call it r, e, m or with any other letter you like to use, that requires one of the old weapons to be built, with new or improved stats based on the base one. want to have the best weapon? you'll have to go through the phases required to build one. want it the easy way? get those offered by delve.
as i already said in previous posts, the system has been already been built. the new equip requires plasma to rank up. the same system could be used to rank up the rem.
and a "we don't have enough man power" when, in the last years, the same amount of players (or more since the expansion came out) are still paying the same monthly fee that has been set 10 years ago, is not acceptable.

Most of the dev team went to work on 14. I know people joke about it but its true. SE wants to save the reputation most popular brand Final Fantasy and FFXIV did damage to their brand and they want to fix that.

[Karbuncle]

Oh... Oh god, I died laughing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=JRAlBFqCSrA

Just, Give it a watch, idc who you are its funny.

[Yandaime]

Not stepping into the current shit storm, but I must say...

Karbuncle, that is pretty damn funny xD

[Areayea]

agreed with Yandaime

[Detzu]

It's not the players. R/E/M have a very clear advantage and are needed for the hardest content. I'm not blaming the weapon or the players. It's just the way the game has evolved. After Abyssea and Neo Dynamis many had a legendary weapon and so they adjusted the content from there accordingly.

I don't see what is wrong with having REM for the hardest contents. You're supposed to have skilled and well equipped players to beat those contents, hence why you'd need the REM.
Of course, Qilin shouldn't be "REM only" since it's really not hard.

The fact is that today they give us weapons that destroy REM and render them completely useless. But those weapons should be used to beat the fracture delve's bosses which drop the strongest weapons. Some of those strongest weapons haven't been released yet : scythe and great sword are still missing.
The new content is enjoyable.
However, in the end I want legendary weapons to stay legendaries even if I'm not in a rush for this to happen since we still have new things to discover.

[Smush]

They could end all this by just raising the base damage on the R/M/E the rest of the weapon will take care of itself they should be the best weapons when you 99 them because it takes the most work.

In less then 3 days ppl who dont even have R/M/E have the weapons which are on par or better in some cases because they joined /sh groups who just pull the mob to a waypoint. have everyone set hp to Western Adoulin mog house, have 2 plds hold mob with whm support and have blms nuke it to death..... when they need to reset JA or need mp or die even just hp go into mog change subs and there you go waypoint right back to fight. Going way past the rage timer of 15 mins SE set on the mob i couldn't believe how easy the fight was it just took 2hrs is all.

Now all the ppl who did this easy fight just /sh farming runs and get there new weapon takes less then a week and your better then most 99 R/M/E which took so much time work and gil, its the most frustrating thing they ever done, i feel its ok to make weapons better then R/M/E but only if its also a legendary weapon.... not a weapon that anyone who can join a /sh can get you don't even need to beat a Naakual to join the /sh just the popper has to have beat one.

I think they should make a quest ONLY for 99 R/M/E to raise the base damage to equal or close to the new highest base damage weapons or just add them to the new delve augment system and let us upgrade them that way or something.

Also i think unlocking the ws for other weapons IF YOU HAVE A 99 R/E since mythic ws are already like that would be a great addition but first things first, fix the R/M/E 99s because the ppl who have them are the ppl who stay with the game or if they do leave they come right back and stay for long periods of time and have the drive to play and beat any challenge you put in there face who you should always reward for there loyalty to this game.

[Zumi]

Just got Rigor Baghnakhs, from joining a bunch of shout groups. Yea this thing blows the crap out of Verethragna. It was kinda fun getting a new weapon doing crazy damage. Was seeing like 850 crits ect on normal attacks.

Now that I replaced one of my empyreans, its actually kind of fun doing a ton more damage lol

Yea it only takes like 3 days of joining shout groups to get one of these, or 6 farm groups if they make 5k each which seems about average. Takes much less time to get these weapons then relics or empyreans ever did.

[Arkista]

If SE never made changes to Dyna and it was still a LS event how many people would own a Relic or more than one? Same with Salvage and Einherjar how many people own a Mythic? I would have to say not very many, Point is be thankful you even own one let alone a 99. If SE makes it so we can have our REMC WS's used by another weapon then take it you'll live w/o that Aftermath. Think of it this way if you own a 99 REMC and you have the WS useable on other weapons, Then +1 to you cause you have something other people wont have or will have a very hard time to get. So stop being Butt Hurt its a game move on and face the fact that SE may not make REM top dog anymore oh wait that already happened. If anything go buy all the coins you can and make your 99 Gimperyean and get the WS.

[Asymptotic]

If SE never made changes to Dyna and it was still a LS event how many people would own a Relic or more than one? Same with Salvage and Einherjar how many people own a Mythic? I would have to say not very many, Point is be thankful you even own one let alone a 99. If SE makes it so we can have our REMC WS's used by another weapon then take it you'll live w/o that Aftermath. Think of it this way if you own a 99 REMC and you have the WS useable on other weapons, Then +1 to you cause you have something other people wont have or will have a very hard time to get. So stop being Butt Hurt its a game move on and face the fact that SE may not make REM top dog anymore oh wait that already happened. If anything go buy all the coins you can and make your 99 Gimperyean and get the WS.

Mythics can already do this!

Sorry but the "consolation prize" for my 800m + 200 hours of event grind better be more than something I can already do by using a WS 250 times

[Arkista]

They could end all this by just raising the base damage on the R/M/E the rest of the weapon will take care of itself they should be the best weapons when you 99 them because it takes the most work.

In less then 3 days ppl who dont even have R/M/E have the weapons which are on par or better in some cases because they joined /sh groups who just pull the mob to a waypoint. have everyone set hp to Western Adoulin mog house, have 2 plds hold mob with whm support and have blms nuke it to death..... when they need to reset JA or need mp or die even just hp go into mog change subs and there you go waypoint right back to fight. Going way past the rage timer of 15 mins SE set on the mob i couldn't believe how easy the fight was it just took 2hrs is all.

Now all the ppl who did this easy fight just /sh farming runs and get there new weapon takes less then a week and your better then most 99 R/M/E which took so much time work and gil, its the most frustrating thing they ever done, i feel its ok to make weapons better then R/M/E but only if its also a legendary weapon.... not a weapon that anyone who can join a /sh can get you don't even need to beat a Naakual to join the /sh just the popper has to have beat one.

I think they should make a quest ONLY for 99 R/M/E to raise the base damage to equal or close to the new highest base damage weapons or just add them to the new delve augment system and let us upgrade them that way or something.

Also i think unlocking the ws for other weapons IF YOU HAVE A 99 R/E since mythic ws are already like that would be a great addition but first things first, fix the R/M/E 99s because the ppl who have them are the ppl who stay with the game or if they do leave they come right back and stay for long periods of time and have the drive to play and beat any challenge you put in there face who you should always reward for there loyalty to this game.

I think all this new content was made for the casual player hence why these weapons are so easy to obtain.SE will more than likely raise the base DMG on 99 REM to 10-40 points above its Delve counterpart.

[Arkista]

Mythics can already do this!

Oh ya I forgot about that but why would SE even say REM then if its just R/E/C.

[Asymptotic]

Oh ya I forgot about that but why would SE even say REM then if its just R/E/C.

Because they actually have no idea what they are going to do and the dev response "suggestion" was a panicked poorly thought out response to an outcry that they didn't expect because they're out of touch with the player base!

[Arkista]

I think if SE make it for the WS useable on other Weapons and people start getting these Delve weapons to LVL 15 they will be like WTF was I QQing about again.

[pretre]

they need to hurry up an save or ruin the game. this waitin to find out if imma quit or not starting to do my head in. come on SE post a final decision please.

[Smush]

I think if SE make it for the WS useable on other Weapons and people start getting these Delve weapons to LVL 15 they will be like WTF was I QQing about again.

Some of the weapon skills are never used and some need the +40% be better then the merit ws

[Cahlum]

I really don't think half the people in this thread understand.

People do not want their weapons to be nothing more than store able weapons for your mannequins.

REM must be the top tier weapons at 99 for the amount of work put in.

[Smush]

All the new gear is obtained the same way and easier then the weapons to get and most of it replaces the good pieces from before the update so what is there to set top players apart?
Having a legendary weapon be the best weapon and hard to obtain because most ppl dont have 99 R/E.

On my server most emps are 85-90 VERY few 99s

most relics are 95 others are 99

not a lot of mythics but they are all 99 over here.

[Cahlum]

I have no problem SE releasing new ultimate weapons that are extremely difficult to get (think old days mythics/relics) and have them be slightly better than REM.

What I will not stand for is weapons that are obtainable in a few hours have +100 dmg on REM.

[pretre]

hey we not just met u, our play times are crazy, if you want to keep us, respond to us maybe?

[Zagato65]

It's been awhile since I've bothered posting anything on this forum but I figured I would break that by posting on this. Anyway I agree that the new weapons pretty much crush other weapons but instead of boosting the damage of the REM why not just down grade the damage from the new weapons? Also as far as needing the new weapons for the new content that as easy as cutting the HP of mobs like they've done in the past. It would preserve the effort of the REMs but also bring the new weapons to a reasonable form of content. if they are trying to bring back old school HNMs and bring back the battle plans there are better ways to do that like higher def monsters or other content which could prevent zergs. I apologize if this idea sounds stupid but it was just a thought.

[RushLynx]

What I will not stand for is weapons that are obtainable in a few hours have +100 dmg on REM.

People seem to be forgetting that REMs have already been upgraded multiple times in the past... When you made your weapon, if it was really all that difficult for you, it was at 75 cap... And you were making a lvl 75 weapon... Everyone else had to let go of their 75 equipment a long time ago... It's time for you to get over the fact that you made a 75 weapon and you're not 75 anymore. New weapons, designed for 99, are better.

If you didn't make your Relic at 75, then I'm sorry, but it really wasn't all that hard for you. You have a few hours every day to mindlessly stand around in Dynamis and proc mobs... and you made a lot of gil selling choco blinkers and metal plates from VW... Good for you, congrats on your relic, but it's time to upgrade. (That's how MMOs work.)

If you made a Mythic (really unlikely, those are still pretty rare) I'm sorry, I really am, because that is still f***ing miserable... but again, it was designed to be a lvl 75 weapon.

Empys were designed with Abyssea content in mind, and if you had a NIN or MNK and could dual box a WHM then it was just a matter of time for you too. It's designed for easy mode.

[Smush]

People seem to be forgetting that REMs have already been upgraded multiple times in the past... When you made your weapon, if it was really all that difficult for you, it was at 75 cap... And you were making a lvl 75 weapon... Everyone else had to let go of their 75 equipment a long time ago... It's time for you to get over the fact that you made a 75 weapon and you're not 75 anymore. New weapons, designed for 99, are better.

If you didn't make your Relic at 75, then I'm sorry, but it really wasn't all that hard for you. You have a few hours every day to mindlessly stand around in Dynamis and proc mobs... and you made a lot of gil selling choco blinkers and metal plates from VW... Good for you, congrats on your relic, but it's time to upgrade. (That's how MMOs work.)

If you made a Mythic (really unlikely, those are still pretty rare) I'm sorry, I really am, because that is still f***ing miserable... but again, it was designed to be a lvl 75 weapon.

Empys were designed with Abyssea content in mind, and if you had a NIN or MNK and could dual box a WHM then it was just a matter of time for you too. It's designed for easy mode.

A nin and a whm are not getting you a 99 emp only 85-90, not everyone had a chance to sell blinkers not gonna lie wish i had but i was not playing @ that time. Making a emp 99 is harder then a relic not as hard as a emp and regardless if they are base 75 weapons...

What happen when the aruic dagger and vermail bhuj came out higher dmg base then the relic right? ofc it was it was a lvl 80 weapon and relics where still 75 so what did SE do? add them to ToM for 85 cap also add mythics to the list and emps got there ws and aftermath.

Then again at 90, at his point most of the Heavy DD emps outclassed the relics a lot of ppl with relics complained like we are now but why should they have? emps where new content so wth right?

But no SE buffed the relics with ws dmg and add proc on hidden damage on the 95 to 99 trial mythics got another attack phase for there lvl 3 aftermath

And emps got slowed down by no longer going up by 5 with there attribute but by 2 then 3 and no ws dmg or aftermath change but its new content right?

Sorry but that is not how it works from the way SE had things if they wanted the weapons to not be top dog anymore then soon as the 80 hit they should have stayed at 75 you but instead they made ppl put more work/money into relics and mythics and ppl had to start investing money into emps.

Its not like we are talking about a lvl 90 R/M/E or a 95 even we are talking about a 99 i bet you don't have one because if you did you would know how much work and gil it takes if you didn't have the chance to sell blinkers, i know how it is and for all that just to make a legendary weapon the best SE better fix this mess they made.

[RushLynx]

Let me simplify this...

You're mad because an item you spent time on in an MMO, software that's designed to occupy your time, became obsolete in an update and you don't want to spend more time getting something new. You're mad that others spent their time in the game doing something else instead, and now new content requires that those players, and yourself, have access to more powerful weapons... No one took the item you worked for and invested time in away, they simply replaced it with one more suited to the new content. If you feel that invalidates the reward you put effort towards, perhaps you should reassess how you spend your time in game... it's supposed to be an enjoyable experience, not a job.

Let's suppose they upgrade RMEs to be vastly more powerful than the new weapons, but they add a modifier that makes it so they don't deal damage to Delve monsters... would you still be mad? Why?

Does the fact that other people have access to a powerful weapon without a tremendous amount of effort bother you? Does it make you feel like your previous reward is less valuable? It's not like they're giving away RMEs here (but, by the way, they already do that from time to time...), they just created a different item... we all recognize that you spent time, and may I be the first to say: "good for you".

[Karbuncle]

Honestly to me its not so much the update anymore, Its this quasi-offensive, passive aggressive condescending Bullsh*t attitude most of the people praising this update seem to have, Sitting up on their high horse with the "Hey look, I sat on my ass and make excuses crying about how hard abyssea is long enough, now i dont have to get a RME! HAH ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO DID" mindset.

Personally I do see a few people here complaining just to complain, But what my argument boils down to is not replacing them, but the belief that people will actually bother with a gear-ladder system in FFXI, not one like they've implemented now.

Reives are all but dead on Asura, wildskeepers are rarely done, Skirmish is a f**king ghost town cause no ones going to pay 8mil for a shot at an item thats already useless. What they did when they released Delve is kill every reason to do old content, they don't understand their playerbase at all.

I've literally not met a single person so far who has done or said "Gee, I should go pay 8mil for skirmish weapons so i can try to get Delve weapons! Better do about 40 runs just to make sure i can get a +2 Stone for the best augments so i can immediately replace it after 4-5 Delve Battlefields!".

Basically, No ones climbing their Ladder, they've all jumped on the elevator to the top and are farming Delve, slowly, for the weapons. Its dumb, its not working, and pretty much the only thing to do now is Delve, while interesting and slow, will be outdated before most of you have all the Key Items...

This is what I am truly worried about, why bother trying to spend all this time and gil on this new equipment when its going to be 100% and fully outdated in about a month and i won't even have half of what there is to offer. Its not that equipment is being outdated, its the speed of which they expect to outdate it, While right now I've grown less GRR about it and am actually enjoying Delve (I even have the h2h), The fact of the matter is, I can't imagine excitement when .dat minning anymore, because its not going to be "Look for the handful of useful pieces", its going to be "Lets how exactly how useless my current gearsets going to be".

So if they continue with the "Gear ladder" mindset, which has already killed and burried many a MMO, it means that they're essentially killing any sense of longevity, outdating all the old content (cause no ones going to bother climbing their ladder), and making the game a "1 Event MMO" update after update.

Raise your hand if you paid a small fortune to enter skirmish since April 29th, anyone? no? Me either. its pointless. This is my biggest fear with their design direction.

[Altimaomega]

Let me simplify this...

You're mad because an item you spent time on in an MMO, software that's designed to occupy your time, became obsolete in an update and you don't want to spend more time getting something new. You're mad that others spent their time in the game doing something else instead, and now new content requires that those players, and yourself, have access to more powerful weapons... No one took the item you worked for and invested time in away, they simply replaced it with one more suited to the new content. If you feel that invalidates the reward you put effort towards, perhaps you should reassess how you spend your time in game... it's supposed to be an enjoyable experience, not a job.

Let's suppose they upgrade RMEs to be vastly more powerful than the new weapons, but they add a modifier that makes it so they don't deal damage to Delve monsters... would you still be mad? Why?

Does the fact that other people have access to a powerful weapon without a tremendous amount of effort bother you? Does it make you feel like your previous reward is less valuable? It's not like they're giving away RMEs here (but, by the way, they already do that from time to time...), they just created a different item... we all recognize that you spent time, and may I be the first to say: "good for you".

looks like SE is making the game for ppl like u, no R/E/M. Well congrats, have fun killing stuff with like minded individuals such as yourself. "good for you".

[RushLynx]

Honestly to me its not so much the update anymore, Its this quasi-offensive, passive aggressive condescending Bullsh*t attitude most of the people praising this update seem to have, Sitting up on their high horse with the "Hey look, I sat on my ass and make excuses crying about how hard abyssea is long enough, now i dont have to get a RME! HAH ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO DID" mindset.

You guys seem to forget that you needed help to upgrade those weapons to 99. Many people, such as myself, spent countless hours at LS events and what not helping people obtain their relics and empys, not getting a whole lot out of it ourselves, only to be ignored when we asked for help ourselves. So this idea that people like me sat on our asses is pure arrogance... not all of us think entirely of ourselves, some of us prefer to spend our time in game helping others instead of growing our e-peens... because we recognize that MMOs, FFXI especially, are all about team work and collective endurance, rather than all about you. If I wanted to think entirely of myself and no one else, I'd go play a single player game.

[Kojo]

Zones decaying, can't finish Coalition assignments. =(

[Duelle]

People do not want their weapons to be nothing more than store able weapons for your mannequins.Ok, so ask for appearance tabs/vanity slots/appearance enchants/transmogrification and you'll continue to get use out of the weapons (and older gear) without forcing the developers to keep them relevant stat-wise.

[crutan]

This proposition for a 'fix' is obviously stating they have no intent on actually fixing it. What I don't get is why not? Relic/Mythic/Empyrean weapons are the perfect storm of MMO time sinks... lol. While time sinks suck for us, they're good for the developers. More time spent, more money made. Why not keep going with that? Why replace them something that takes a week to get? It makes no sense.

Just to reiterate some of the other problems this causes. Pets are worthless. Mages are worthless. Dual wielders are half-worthless. And I'm also skeptical of the economic repercussions of this... I mean it seems like a lot of the economy currently revolves around the various currencies for these weapons. With them essentially crashing(and thus all the old content you worked so hard to remake[again makes no sense]), how will this effect the economy as a whole?

I'm assuming a higher power interfered and thus this shitstorm. New CEO: "MAEK IT TIERED LIEK WOW GAIZ! WE'LL MAEK ZILLIONS~ /derpface"

[Alpheus]

You guys seem to forget that you needed help to upgrade those weapons to 99. Many people, such as myself, spent countless hours at LS events and what not helping people obtain their relics and empys, not getting a whole lot out of it ourselves, only to be ignored when we asked for help ourselves. So this idea that people like me sat on our asses is pure arrogance... not all of us think entirely of ourselves, some of us prefer to spend our time in game helping others instead of growing our e-peens... because we recognize that MMOs, FFXI especially, are all about team work and collective endurance, rather than all about you. If I wanted to think entirely of myself and no one else, I'd go play a single player game.

I'm sorry you had to go through that but you seriously helped out a bunch of assholes. And even in that light your experiences don't invalidate what Karbuncle said.

[Karbuncle]

You guys seem to forget that you needed help to upgrade those weapons to 99. Many people, such as myself, spent countless hours at LS events and what not helping people obtain their relics and empys, not getting a whole lot out of it ourselves, only to be ignored when we asked for help ourselves. So this idea that people like me sat on our asses is pure arrogance... not all of us think entirely of ourselves, some of us prefer to spend our time in game helping others instead of growing our e-peens... because we recognize that MMOs, FFXI especially, are all about team work and collective endurance, rather than all about you. If I wanted to think entirely of myself and no one else, I'd go play a single player game.

I said most. Not all.


Definition:
Adjective
Greatest in amount or degree: "they've had the most success"; "they had the most to lose".
Adverb
To the greatest extent: "the things he most enjoyed".
Synonyms
very - greatly - extremely - passing - highly - much


You're also very hypocritical in this post. The hypocricy stems from the fact you became upset by a post or accusation not meant to be directed to you, and instead of actually understanding and reading the rest of my post, you then go on to yell about "MMO This" and "ALL ABOUT YOU", which i haven't even muttered a phrase of a single time anywhere in this entire thread so I'm vastly confused as the relevance of this. Considering, as i once again spell out below, I solo'd the majority of my relic.

So either you missed the point of my post or ignored it entirely, However I would recommend reading over it, because your post alone makes you seem foolish as you are completely off base.


spent countless hours at LS events and what not helping people obtain their relics and empys, not getting a whole lot out of it ourselves

This is a case of having sh*tty friends and in a sh*tty linkshell. Which sucks but I don't see how its our fault.

In my LS, I didn't get my Marrows and run, I helped at least 10 other people get multiple 99 Relics, so if we're going down the "BLAME EVERYONE FOR EVERYTHING" route, how about the hypocrisy of assuming relic owners leeched off the efforts of others? I solo'd 99% of my 95 Relic and the 75r currency, and only had help from a GF and my brother on rare occasions i got help.

Even when i did get my relic and my Brother Joined in helping me, In return, I farmed my brother an Excalibur, Gandiva, and Caladbolg... I'm may be the exception to the rule, but most if not all the people i know with relics got them by their own efforts, not leeching off others.

[crutan]

I'm sorry you had to go through that but you seriously helped out a bunch of assholes.

Really he just needed a friend w/ WHM and they could've gotten themselves at least 85 Empys. Better to do these type of things by yourself or a few friends really. LS always look out for their biggest ass kissers. :\

[RushLynx]

I said most. Not all.

You're also very hypocritical in this post. The hypocricy stems from the fact you became upset by a post or accusation not meant to be directed to you, and instead of actually understanding and reading the rest of my post, you then go on to yell about "MMO This" and "ALL ABOUT YOU", which i haven't even muttered a phrase of a single time anywhere in this entire thread so I'm vastly confused as the relevance of this. Considering, as i once again spell out below, I solo'd the majority of my relic.

It's not just me, and I'm not a minority here. When relics were in their original forms it was physically impossible for everyone to get one. They were extremely rare and took an entire LS years just to get one person a relic. The rest of us were rewarded with laughable payouts by today's standards (like less than 100k), and the relic armors, which of course aren't nearly as valuable today as relics still are. There are lots of us, at least those of us who didn't quit after the 75 cap broke, who were so sick of dynamis and relics and mythics by the time we could solo them that we had absolutely no desire to spend that kind of time on them... that doesn't make us lazy, by any means whatsoever. This idea that you guys spent so much time and effort on your relics that you demand upgrades, I've spent enough time over the years helping others with theirs that I should have like 20 relics by your standards, but I don't have any, and I'm okay with that... but I refuse to sit around and continue to watch the shouts in Jeuno refusing anyone who doesn't have an RME, and then come here to the forums to see you lot whining about your toys falling behind. These things shouldn't be required, they were never intended to be this common, and by no means should they be so common and so powerful that people feel the need to exclude anyone that doesn't have one.

Please note that empys ended up being the exact same way. Whole LSs farming items for one person's empy, the rest of us were rewarded with +2 items for our armors... Armors that are now quickly falling out of favor while you guys with the empys whine on the forums that your weapons don't feel as powerful as they use to.

Oh, but NNI armors are nice and only require 6 people to get too, easy stuff right? But wait, what's that? Oh yeah, you can't join a NNI static unless you have an RME... hmm....

[Cybermario]

You guys seem to forget that you needed help to upgrade those weapons to 99. Many people, such as myself, spent countless hours at LS events and what not helping people obtain their relics and empys, not getting a whole lot out of it ourselves, only to be ignored when we asked for help ourselves. So this idea that people like me sat on our asses is pure arrogance... not all of us think entirely of ourselves, some of us prefer to spend our time in game helping others instead of growing our e-peens... because we recognize that MMOs, FFXI especially, are all about team work and collective endurance, rather than all about you. If I wanted to think entirely of myself and no one else, I'd go play a single player game.Sadly that happens a lot, god knows a bunch of morons and arrogants in my LS got weapons before i did. Heck, they made me wait a year for my verethragna, i ended doing it way late with friends, like you many of us been in that awful position while others show their epeens sure, but is no reason to say every relic/empy mythic is an ass that gets one to brag.


but I refuse to sit around and continue to watch the shouts in Jeuno refusing anyone who doesn't have an RME.With all due respect you are a fool, you know why? just because these weapons will fall behind do not means people will stop shouting. Just the other day after out fight with Tchakka i warped back to Adoulin to watch a shout of someone asking relic/empy/skirmish/naakual ONLY weapons to join a Delve shout... so there you go, people will only take players with the new uber weapons, douchery dont go away because a weapon is obsolete and the newcomers w/o the uber weapons will suffer the same from elitists, sorry to burst your bubble.



As for reive and such, is truly absurd how they released delve this soon, maybe if they did introduce delve in 6 months (or maybe later) would make sense but right now nullified not just old content but Skirmish and fighting a naakual, aside of the KI is pointless when weapons from delve make naakual and skirmish loot obsolete.

[Karbuncle]

Honestly IDK if i agree or disagree with your post but this one thing stuck out.


Delve shout... so there you go, people will only take players with the new uber weapons, douchery dont go away because a weapon is obsolete and the newcomers w/o the uber weapons will suffer the same from elitists, sorry to burst your bubble.

This content was designed to be nearly or literally impossible without these weapons and adequate gear. Wanting to not fail a run or spend 8 hours zombie-killing an NM has nothing to do with Elitism or being a douchebag, nor does requesting the players you invite be of top grade gear level. Delve NMs are insanely hard, and unless you're a BLU, without RME or D/N/S weapons there is a significant stunt in your damage output. They were designed for best of the best players in their "Gear ladder".

If you get tired of seeing them shouts, shout yourself and invite whoever you want, and you can wipe/zombie it for 8 hours... Not trying to discourage you, but these new weapons you won't be able to access unless you're great geared, or you come as a support job like BRD or COR... not because you wont physically be invited, but because without proper gear you'll either fail miserably or you'll end up Zombie-ing in for ~8hours, which I'm sure they're in the process of nerfing/patching.

Plasm Farming you can do without a RME or D/N/S weapon, but the NMs require a certain level of gear... which I'm sad to say most players will not possess, hell most of my jobs don't possess it simply due to my lack of interest in them.

So despite them being easier to obtain than relics, You won't be able to get them reliably without top end gear/weapons anyway...

[RushLynx]

With all due respect you are a fool, you know why? just because these weapons will fall behind do not means people will stop shouting. Just the other day after out fight with Tchakka i warped back to Adoulin to watch a shout of someone asking relic/empy/skirmish/naakual ONLY weapons to join a Delve shout... so there you go, people will only take players with the new uber weapons, douchery dont go away because a weapon is obsolete and the newcomers w/o the uber weapons will suffer the same from elitists, sorry to burst your bubble.

These sorts of shouts weren't possible until RMEs were easy enough to obtain that like 30-40% of the player base had them and they continued to receive buffs. The fact of the matter is that RMEs should have stopped getting upgrades a long time ago when they became solo-able, and they should have been paralleled by things like pulse weapons. Continuing to upgrade them now will not fix this, it will only make it worse.

To that end had they not continued to upgrade RMEs maybe we wouldn't be in this awkward balance fiasco where new content seems impossible without them. People would accept that there's some other way to do the content that's not readily accessible, actually climb this gear ladder devs keep referring to, and stop trying to brute-force their way up the Delve tiers.

[crutan]

Was trying to be nice earlier, but you're basically confessing you're too lazy to equip yourself properly and expect the devs to cater to you so... Yeah. RME onry is a good thing as far as I'm concerned. Why should we do the work for you? :\

[Kojo]

To be honest, I'm not really sure why I play anymore, I log in, I stand around trying to think of something to do, and I log having thought of nothing. When I think about it, I wasn't sure why I played before, but I had friends to do things with, and it was fun. I see the game changing around me and I don't like it. I'm gonna stick around awhile longer just to see what happens.

EDIT: I suppose one idea is to level WHM and use that to gear my other jobs... Maybe?

[Cybermario]

@Karbuncle indeed, our LS is pretty organized and we all are well geared, this issue dont affect me but im able to empathize with the people that isnt fortunate to have a good LS or a lowman group for NNI. Mainly commentng there's people thinking certain attitude will go away with an outdated weapon, will not.

[tarubigboss]

Crutan and RushLynx I <3 you. Will you be my bff? tarutaru /lick

[FrankReynolds]

These sorts of shouts weren't possible until RMEs were easy enough to obtain that like 30-40% of the player base had them and they continued to receive buffs. The fact of the matter is that RMEs should have stopped getting upgrades a long time ago when they became solo-able, and they should have been paralleled by things like pulse weapons. Continuing to upgrade them now will not fix this, it will only make it worse.

To that end had they not continued to upgrade RMEs maybe we wouldn't be in this awkward balance fiasco where new content seems impossible without them. People would accept that there's some other way to do the content that's not readily accessible, actually climb this gear ladder devs keep referring to, and stop trying to brute-force their way up the Delve tiers.

There is absolutely no reason why the RME weapons can't be upgraded to an equal or slightly stronger form than the delve weapons themselves via drops from delve thus facilitating the ability for RME owners to keep their weapons while helping out people who just want delve weapons...

Other than you just wanting to see RME owners suffer.

Ideally, both weapons could have strengths and weaknesses. That would add to the popularity of delve or whatever comes after it. Stop acting like people want to just have their damage bonus for free.

[AldielQuetz]

Rush... Were you just too lazy to dedicate 50 hours a week to this game, forgoing sleep, farming endless tree cuttings, growing endless tree cuttings and saplings, harvesting dark ores.... Oh wait you probably didn't even play back then. So how could you possibly know where this "balance fiasco" came from let alone have a weapon you prize more than the game itself. The balance concept came from SE and the REMs are not the cause but they are effected by balance. Balance is what SE says when they don't have any other explanation or when they just want you to take what they are selling and kindly take a cup of shush and go have a seat.

But more seriously, it first came about when talk of certain jobs being over powered arose, IN TWO THOUSAND AND FOUR, when they nerfed RNG into the Stone Age. At first, since there was no forum, no ~dev team coordinators~ we just heard about balance in the update notes and basically had to suck it. But now it's just way over used.

Now, to be realistic, lets just take the average jump in base DMG of any REM from level 95 to 99, a five level difference, it's between 4 and 11 damage depending on what weapon. Lets take a look at the jump we just made, of between 70 and 120 base DMG from a 99 weapon that was the best of the best at the end of march and a 99 weapon near or at the top at the BEGINNING OF MAY OF THE SAME YEAR. That's a rediculous jump. If anything should have made that jump, it is REM. the time to make them is disproportionate entirely to their standing and SE promised that those weapons would remain at the top of their respective classes. But it's obvious with the sudden influx of TH+ items for pets that we can't keep REMs on top... Oh yeah, SE has lied to us before so let's stop arguing and bitching and just present a mature united front with a great number of good suggestions and not accept anything but our due.

What is our due... Well we have been paying that same dollar amount for 10 years for a game that's graphics are so outdated it looks like a Nintendo 64 game.... If we pay for this crap, then we deserve to have that 3 man dev team fix our damn REMs and maybe have one less smoke break because as it has been pointed out, it would take maybe an hour to add 70 base DMG across the board to all REMs, or 70 to 1handers and 100 to 2handers, so add an extra 20 mins on there, and TADA everyone is happy.

Thanks

[Alpheus]

To be honest, I'm not really sure why I play anymore, I log in, I stand around trying to think of something to do, and I log having thought of nothing. When I think about it, I wasn't sure why I played before, but I had friends to do things with, and it was fun. I see the game changing around me and I don't like it. I'm gonna stick around awhile longer just to see what happens.
EDIT: I suppose one idea is to level WHM and use that to gear my other jobs... Maybe?

It's definitely the path I took when I started playing 3 years ago and with a bit of luck of running into people I got along with, I'd like to think being willing to do things like have WHM, SCH, COR prepped to fill in those roles; presented me with quite a few opportunities to get where I'm at today in game. Find a niche, see if filling it would in turn leave you fulfilled with some sense of enjoyment and try to thrive in that niche. That's the approach I've taken with the game. Granted it was tempered with cold hard facts such as not thinking I can out DD a main DD on RDM or WHM melee on anything worthwhile.

[Kojo]

It's definitely the path I took when I started playing 3 years ago and with a bit of luck of running into people I got along with, I'd like to think being willing to do things like have WHM, SCH, COR prepped to fill in those roles; presented me with quite a few opportunities to get where I'm at today in game. Find a niche, see if filling it would in turn leave you fulfilled with some sense of enjoyment and try to thrive in that niche. That's the approach I've taken with the game. Granted it was tempered with cold hard facts such as not thinking I can out DD a main DD on RDM or WHM melee on anything worthwhile.

I'll only use WHM as a utility job, also I want to hit things with a hammer when not doing something important.

[Smush]

You guys seem to forget that you needed help to upgrade those weapons to 99. Many people, such as myself, spent countless hours at LS events and what not helping people obtain their relics and empys, not getting a whole lot out of it ourselves, only to be ignored when we asked for help ourselves. So this idea that people like me sat on our asses is pure arrogance... not all of us think entirely of ourselves, some of us prefer to spend our time in game helping others instead of growing our e-peens... because we recognize that MMOs, FFXI especially, are all about team work and collective endurance, rather than all about you. If I wanted to think entirely of myself and no one else, I'd go play a single player game.

I didn't do my with any ls i did mine with RL friends i have and we all have them so thats not always true, also i am working on delve stuff its not gonna stop me from getting better but i think the R/M/E should be upgraded if its 99.

ppl like you don't really play for the reason i play you guys don't really work to be the best so why should they let you have the best weapons now so easy? gear also since you get it the same way

[AldielQuetz]

Also... Rush, you just either had the worst luck or something is just wrong on your server. I would take people without REMs to NNI, it was 50% luck anyway with the lamps. Half the time if you won you had like 8 minutes left over because of lucky jumps.

Anyway and about way back when.... Are you crazy dude? You getting 100k and getting AFs for participating in dynamis was a gift... I was in shells before I made my own with the help of Cyronea that made you PAY for your part of the glass lol.... So before you discount the endless days upon days that someone else spent to be 1 of 2 people on their server with an Excalibur.... Please have the courtesy to have actually done it yourself or at least take that into account.

Are relics too common: No. Should people be excluded for not having one: No. Is the game still on easy mode: Yes.

What has everyone been screaming for: strategy. It's what we used to have to use to beat gods, jailers and kings.

SE fix the REMs, bring back the golden era of FFXI

[Kennx]

FFXI RIP. goodbye

[Kennx]

fix it now... or say goodbye to your job.

[RushLynx]

There is absolutely no reason why the RME weapons can't be upgraded to an equal or slightly stronger form than the delve weapons themselves via drops from delve thus facilitating the ability for RME owners to keep their weapons while helping out people who just want delve weapons...

No one is preventing RME owners from keeping their weapons. Even if they were nerfed to 1 dmg, still, no one is forcing anyone to toss their weapons. As it stands, though, the only people with access to the new weapons are those with the old weapons, at multiple angles of approach. Judging by people's track record with pretty much anything difficult in this game, I don't see very many people turning around after getting through the new content and saying "Hey guys, let me spend some time to help you through it too." No, they're going to immediately go to the next stuff and proceed with acting like douche-bags. 'Well, I could help you out now, but that sounds like a lot of work... and I need all this stuff for myself...'

There are a lot of people in here who seem appalled by the notion that people simply take and swindle their way to the top in this game. I've played this game for 10 years, and it's pretty much always been that way when it comes to end-game content. What magical land do you people live in, where selfishness and greed aren't predominant traits of humanity?

[RushLynx]

Oh wait you probably didn't even play back then.

I'm really tired of this fallacy wherein we attempt to discredit people by suggesting that they "didn't play back then..." So here, have a screen shot:

http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y48/Valflux/FFXI%20Screen%20Shots/Val03.jpg

There, now where's your proof of superiority? Go on, let's compare dick sizes while we're at it.

[Alerith]

No one is preventing RME owners from keeping their weapons. Even if they were nerfed to 1 dmg, still, no one is forcing anyone to toss their weapons. As it stands, though, the only people with access to the new weapons are those with the old weapons, at multiple angles of approach. Judging by people's track record with pretty much anything difficult in this game, I don't see very many people turning around after getting through the new content and saying "Hey guys, let me spend some time to help you through it too." No, they're going to immediately go to the next stuff and proceed with acting like douche-bags. 'Well, I could help you out now, but that sounds like a lot of work... and I need all this stuff for myself...'

There are a lot of people in here who seem appalled by the notion that people simply take and swindle their way to the top in this game. I've played this game for 10 years, and it's pretty much always been that way when it comes to end-game content. What magical land do you people live in, where selfishness and greed aren't predominant traits of humanity?

To summarize nearly all of RushLynx's posts to save some of you some time:

"Waaaah waaaah, the people I chose to hang around treated me like shit. Therefore, everyone else should suffer now because my past experiences have tainted any visions of civility in this game. Greed and selfishness! This is the way of the world! How can you not agree with me? Clearly I'm right! I've been wronged! All those who chose to spend their time with friends in the past must suffer now! There's evil afoot! EVIL!"

http://i.imgur.com/W4fP0Z8.jpg


There is an intelligent way to make this argument, and Rush is doing it wrong.

[RushLynx]

Therefore, everyone else should suffer now because my past experiences have tainted any visions of civility in this game.

Yeah, clearly I think you should suffer... and by suffer I mean your item should remain the exact same item it was when you earned it instead of constantly being remedied to compete in new content while the rest of us have to replace our gear.

Suggesting that you shouldn't automatically start every update with an unfair advantage over the rest of us is CLEARLY consistent with suggesting that you should suffer...

You know what, here's a solution to this that supersedes my fears. Make a new tier of magian trials for these weapons, but make the trials hundreds of kills on each new NM. That way the rest of us will have an opportunity to take part in the new content and get relevant weapons and gear while these guys continue upgrading their precious toys.

I suspect the prospect will be mute after a while anyways when they inevitably obtain the new weapons while doing the trials and opt for using those instead of continuing the upgrade in the first place. Meanwhile the damage on the new weapons will give the rest of us a place in the alliance because it will no longer seem necessary to require everyone to have an RME, there will be plenty of damage without.

(Incoming a hundred people whining that this would be too much and threatening to quit if they don't get their way. They're so hardcore, after all, and they're willing to put in so much more time and effort than the rest of us on what REALLY matters, themselves.)

[Alerith]

Yeah, clearly I think you should suffer... and by suffer I mean your item should remain the exact same item it was when you earned it instead of constantly being remedied to compete in new content while the rest of us have to replace our gear.

Suggesting that you shouldn't automatically start every update with an unfair advantage over the rest of us is CLEARLY consistent with suggesting that you should suffer...

Before I respond, I really and honestly need to know...

Are you serious?

[RushLynx]

Before I respond, I really and honestly need to know...

Are you serious?

Let me ask you something... How does leaving something you earned a while ago the exact same way it was then somehow equate to making you suffer? I'm gonna go get a cookie, it tastes better than your cookie that you went out of your way to spend $100 on, but you can have one of these at the same price I paid, $5. Are you suffering yet?

I believe that just because you felt your cookie was worth $100 doesn't mean that the bakery that sold it to you should have to go out of their way to make it better than the $5 cookie. I also believe that your $100 cookie should not be a prerequisite for people to buy the $5 cookie, and I resent the notion that your $100 cookie somehow makes you a better, more qualified, person than me... Currently that's what's happening, is this simple enough for you?

Might I add that your cookie was purchased weeks ago, while my cookie was made yesterday. Meanwhile, we both paid an entry fee, the same entry fee, to tour the new bakery, and you're mad when you see the display case with the $5 cookies...

[Kristal]

I'm really tired of this fallacy wherein we attempt to discredit people by suggesting that they "didn't play back then..." So here, have a screen shot:

There, now where's your proof of superiority? Go on, let's compare dick sizes while we're at it.

I remember when Stoneskin was nerfed. (It used to overwrite itself.) And when a pair of jokers pulled goblins to both sides of the zoneline near the popular Yhoater goblin exp camp. And when worker crawlers (and one soldier crawler) camped the entrance to crawler's nest, feeding on anyone foolish enough to enter. I remember.. hey, get off my lawn!

[Zohno]

Let me ask you something... How does leaving something you earned a while ago the exact same way it was then somehow equate to making you suffer? I'm gonna go get a cookie, it tastes better than your cookie that you went out of your way to spend $100 on, but you can have one of these at the same price I paid, $5. Are you suffering yet?
SE is not leaving the RME the way they are. They would be the same in a system whose parameters are unchanged.
The moment the system's parameters's max value have changed, they have been worsened, maybe indirectly, but they have been!
You talk about unfair advantage. Why's unfair? It's unfair because people have accomplished more stuff than you and can join those events earlier than you? What should they do? Stop playing and wait for you to reach their level?
People work hard to get the best equip to increase their desiderability. Why should their "status" get crumbled by a poorly thought update? Because the others are too lazy to dedicate theirseleves to something? (talking about strangers. if you helped someone, the least they can do is help you back, of course.)
Wanna call it e-peen? Do it if you want, but it's what this kind of games is based on or you would have seen pink nins and perle wars everywhere and this game wouldn't have lasted so long.

[RushLynx]

SE is not leaving the RME the way they are. They would be the same in a system whose parameters are unchanged.
The moment the system's parameters's max value have changed, they have been worsened, maybe indirectly, but they have been!
You talk about unfair advantage. Why's unfair? It's unfair because people have accomplished more stuff than you and can join those events earlier than you? What should they do? Stop playing and wait for you to reach their level?
People work hard to get the best equip to increase their desiderability. Why should their "status" get crumbled by a poorly thought update? Because the others are too lazy to dedicate theirseleves to something? (talking about strangers. if you helped someone, the least they can do is help you back, of course.)
Wanna call it e-peen? Do it if you want, but it's what this kind of games is based on or you would have seen pink nins and perle wars everywhere and this game wouldn't have lasted so long.

This is impossible. Let me try one last time.

Some of us have always felt that the effort/reward ratio for REMs was inadequate for us to chase after. We chose to spend our game time doing other things, like helping people and crafting... Filling other gear slots instead, or we preferred another weapon and worked towards obtaining that one. We still built up our characters, we have great armor that should be fine for new content, but there's a problem...

People feel that the new expansion requires REMs, leaving the rest of us on the sidelines, even though we have better gear than some people with REMs do. I see people in town every day with upgraded relics while the rest of their equipment is a joke. That's bad prioritizing in my opinion. I feel that this isn't the way that it should be, and that by giving in and upgrading them at this point, it would only perpetuate the idea that REMs are required for end-game content, they're not, and they shouldn't be... they never have been. I understand that some of you felt that the effort/reward ratio was adequate when you built your REM, but that's how these games work. Things get replaced. It has literally always been that way every time a new expansion was released.

Do I think those of you with REMs should suffer? No, I don't. But I see an overwhelming sense of false superiority in these forums from REM holders, constantly suggesting that those of us without REMs somehow don't deserve the opportunity to take part in new content just because we didn't spend our time upgrading the same slot or grinding through the same content as you did.

[CrAZYVIC]

To the devs this is not 2005 guys. Where the players played the shit you guys maked and nobody could complain or do something for stop it

Is 2013 now, everything has evolve, the players in the 2013 will no acept shit they dont like. In the 2013 we expect a expansion x1000 times better than treasures of aht urhgan.

At 2013 we dont will eat all the Silly ideas the dev team have.

If you guys can fix this issue with the R/M/E weapons. Dear Matsui ask Naoki Yoshida for a few ideas, take a coffe with him and talk about how you can handle FFXI, Naoki have a lot of exp in the MMRPG industry, he acepted, he played TERA, ,aion, Wow etc. Ask him a few ideas, because Tanaka and you lack of necesary knowedge how Run a MMRPG.

And please take only the good elements from that games, not the worst elements, like outdate the gear every 15 days.

For Support to the R/M/E Guys. Im canceling my Alt account is the acoount i use for farm Dynamis

[Zohno]

This is impossible. Let me try one last time.

Some of us have always felt that the effort/reward ratio for REMs was inadequate for us to chase after. We chose to spend our game time doing other things, like helping people and crafting... Filling other gear slots instead, or we preferred another weapon and worked towards obtaining that one. We still built up our characters, we have great armor that should be fine for new content, but there's a problem...

People feel that the new expansion requires REMs, leaving the rest of us on the sidelines, even though we have better gear than some people with REMs do. I see people in town every day with upgraded relics while the rest of their equipment is a joke. That's bad prioritizing in my opinion. I feel that this isn't the way that it should be, and that by giving in and upgrading them at this point, it would only perpetuate the idea that REMs are required for end-game content, they're not, and they shouldn't be... they never have been. I understand that some of you felt that the effort/reward ratio was adequate when you built your REM, but that's how these games work. Things get replaced. It has literally always been that way every time a new expansion was released.

Do I think those of you with REMs should suffer? No, I don't. But I see an overwhelming sense of false superiority in these forums from REM holders, constantly suggesting that those of us without REMs somehow don't deserve the opportunity to take part in new content just because we didn't spend our time upgrading the same slot or grinding through the same content as you did.

Then I make it simpler for you. Why don't you lead your own events and pick whoever you want, make something like a NO REM run?

[Zumi]

Delve weapons are the new r/m/e. Take a look around Adouin almost everyone has one now. Seems like its just gear progression.

[Duelle]

There is absolutely no reason why the RME weapons can't be upgraded to an equal or slightly stronger form than the delve weapons themselves via drops from delve thus facilitating the ability for RME owners to keep their weapons while helping out people who just want delve weapons.If the design intent is to level the playing field for real (not cave to cries of "my relic is not the best anymore se plz fix"), then there is no reason for RME to even be involved in Delve in any capacity.

And if you're referring to an old weapon that was implemented several years ago not being relevant to the current content as "suffering", I'm simply going to file that under melodrama. In a way I really wish Blizzard didn't purge the WoW forums every time they change formats. I'd love to paste some of the gems from the vanilla era that mimic the arguments here just using "tier 3/AQ40 gear/Thunderfury/Sulfuras" instead of "RME", and "hellfire peninsula quest greens" instead of "Delve weapons".

[Smokesalot]

I'd love to paste some of the gems from the vanilla era that mimic the arguments here just using "tier 3/AQ40 gear/Thunderfury/Sulfuras" instead of "RME", and "hellfire peninsula quest greens" instead of "Delve weapons".

But this isn't WoW. How about I post some whining from an ISPs forums? Equally relevant.

[RushLynx]

Then I make it simpler for you. Why don't you lead your own events and pick whoever you want, make something like a NO REM run?

Well that's a different thread, they shouldn't have released Delve at this point because it was obviously intended (and they've suggested such in their responses) that the entire server had progressed to a different point when they started this content. I.E. it's been largely speculated that Delve strength is inversely proportional to colonization rates, something that requires a collective effort from the server, which isn't going to happen when everyone's throwing themselves at NMs they can just barely kill sometimes. Instead we have people trying to brute force their way through it, and it's logical that they would attempt to find the best of the best in that case. Rather than actually finding some better way of judging player ability, though, they have resorted to simply adding "RME only" to their shouts, which is wrong. Having a RME in no way makes someone a more competent, skillful player. Many RME holders are lacking in literally every other slot because they spent so many resources on their weapons.

Let's see... should I spend several hours every day for months working on a single weapon... or spend the same amount of time filling every other slot instead, for multiple jobs, while I can spam VW and make some gil at the same time to obtain a pulse weapon of similar stature... (I will always choose the second option here, because that's my sense of priority, in my opinion it continues to be the logical choice for someone who only has a that limited amount of time to invest.) Meanwhile, the douche that has 10 relics, is still wearing AF, and has zero skill is the one that gets accepted to shouts while I get ignored, simply because I admit to not having an REM.

So everything else is dead. Even those of us who would rather wait until we can do the content as intended can't find enough people willing to go along with it. NNI groups won't settle for anything except a SCH and REM-melees because they have confused luck with skill. Oftentimes when I try to make a NNI run with my WHM/SCH it's hard to find people that will even try because I'm not a SCH. This sort of thing is something devs should be focusing on, rather than giving in to the demands of RME holders who are starting to realize that their investment might not be so sound after all and are beginning to panic.

[Zohno]

Well that's a different thread, they shouldn't have released Delve at this point because it was obviously intended (and they've suggested such in their responses) that the entire server had progressed to a different point when they started this content. I.E. it's been largely speculated that Delve strength is inversely proportional to colonization rates, something that requires a collective effort from the server, which isn't going to happen when everyone's throwing themselves at NMs they can just barely kill sometimes. Instead we have people trying to brute force their way through it, and it's logical that they would attempt to find the best of the best in that case. Rather than actually finding some better way of judging player ability, though, they have resorted to simply adding "RME only" to their shouts, which is wrong. Having a RME in no way makes someone a more competent, skillful player. Many RME holders are lacking in literally every other slot because they spent so many resources on their weapons.

Let's see... should I spend several hours every day for months working on a single weapon... or spend the same amount of time filling every other slot instead, for multiple jobs, while I can spam VW and make some gil at the same time to obtain a pulse weapon of similar stature... (I will always choose the second option here, because that's my sense of priority, in my opinion it continues to be the logical choice for someone who only has a that limited amount of time to invest.) Meanwhile, the douche that has 10 relics, is still wearing AF, and has zero skill is the one that gets accepted to shouts while I get ignored, simply because I admit to not having an REM.

So everything else is dead. Even those of us who would rather wait until we can do the content as intended can't find enough people willing to go along with it. NNI groups won't settle for anything except a SCH and REM-melees because they have confused luck with skill. Oftentimes when I try to make a NNI run with my WHM/SCH it's hard to find people that will even try because I'm not a SCH. This sort of thing is something devs should be focusing on, rather than giving in to the demands of RME holders who are starting to realize that their investment might not be so sound after all and are beginning to panic.

So you think that if the REM stay as they are, everything will be fixed? People will not drop their weapons so nothing will change. Instead, they are increasing. People are still completing REM on my server, maybe hoping for a future fix, maybe because they don't wanna see what they did until now be wasted. Maybe only the shouts will change, since you'll see REMD instead of REM only, but the players mentality will hardly change. They will always look for the most efficient way. If they can make a choice that will increase their winning chance by 10%, they will.
In the future it will be even worse. When there will be a good % of players with delve weapons those shouts will be replaced with D only, reducing even more the amount of players that will be able to join.

Instead of increasing the interest of REM holders in joining the new events so that they can upgrade their weapons, the devs are only killing past events.
REM holders may still be pushed to do the newer events to get the more powerful weapons but with less enjoyment and more frustration since they know that their REM will become a mannequin (if you have one) item after the drop.

[anjitwo]

so now that golden week is done (i think) are you gonna give us a non insulting fix or keep burying your collective heads? you silly silly ostriches

[AldielQuetz]

Ok Rush since you quoted me out of context I'll just put it plainly..... You are a troll and a worthless troll at that. Anyone can finish a relevant Empy for events in 3 weekends with 2-3 friends and the fact that YOU don't have one means YOU don't have a dog in this fight. My suggestion is that if you don't have anything invested just go on your way and quit your griping so that SE doesn't listen to your idiotic opinions and screw up REMs for good for the rest of us. You literally have no idea what you are talking about and for those of us that made an R, relic early on and invested years of our lives, you just sound petty and bitter.

Talk a walk Biquikboy.

[VoiceMemo]

I can't speak for how other linkshells are run by for my shell I try to treat everyone the same. Everyone is allowed the opportunity for 1 relic, emp, or mythic if they are willing to put the time into it and wait their turn. What they do with said item after it is their choice. If they just want to depend on the wep only so be it, but I would say those that get one of those weps also focus on the gear to complement the weps to make them stronger.

As for NNI, the issue is the time limit. Since you only have 30 minutes, it only makes sense to go with the highest damage possible/most efficient group possible. When I run NNI, I go with 4dd, brd, sch. Sch still is the best main heal mage for it becuase it has the highest regen. Regen allows DD to perform their job while not having a mage around. Thereby allowing the sch to remain at the lamp. Again this comes out to efficicency sake. If it wasn't for the time limit, the party setups could vary alot. Yes other mages can do /sch, for instance whm, but regen 5 is still better than regen 4. That's not to say with whm/sch it's not possible, but if you want efficiency, sch is greater than whm in this respect.

It comes down to personal wants. Some want the very best and will seak it out and obtain it. I've always said if something is important to you, you make the time. Others are fine with midrange to high lvl gear, which again that is their choice.

So neither choice is right or wrong it depends on ones personal preference. When you help it should be for the sake of helping. It is nice to get help back, but you should not require help when you do help, nor expect help back. Which then comes back to how people were raised.

I reiterate my situation is unique since I play brd and a brds job is total support to live vicariously though others. The game allows us to change to every job so I can understand why people go after multiple REM. I personally don't like REM not being used. It is my view that if you get a REM you should be that job as much as you can as to not let the item go to waste. IE for my Gjallarhorn, I try to be brd as much as I can, as not to let the efforts of those who helped me back at 75 to obtain it.

I know I'm probably in the minority but for my linkshell I prefer to focus on my members first before I get anything as shell leader. It just sounds like some of you have had leaders get things for themselves and their cronies, which I've been in shells like that. That is why when I took shell leader I refused to be that way.

[FrankReynolds]

No one is preventing RME owners from keeping their weapons. Even if they were nerfed to 1 dmg, still, no one is forcing anyone to toss their weapons. As it stands, though, the only people with access to the new weapons are those with the old weapons, at multiple angles of approach.

Thi sisn't true, but assuming it was... why would you care? You either don't have an RME. In which case this will not affect you one way or the other. Or, you do have an RME, in which case a bump would benefit you.

In reality, you don't need a 99 RME to get the delve weapons though, so you're whole premise is shot.


Judging by people's track record with pretty much anything difficult in this game, I don't see very many people turning around after getting through the new content and saying "Hey guys, let me spend some time to help you through it too." No, they're going to immediately go to the next stuff and proceed with acting like douche-bags. 'Well, I could help you out now, but that sounds like a lot of work... and I need all this stuff for myself...'

That is why you make delve part of the upgrade process. So that people have a reason to keep doing it. Just like they did with HMPs and riftdross etc. in VW. Hopefully they would do a better job of it this time though (not holding my breathe).


There are a lot of people in here who seem appalled by the notion that people simply take and swindle their way to the top in this game. I've played this game for 10 years, and it's pretty much always been that way when it comes to end-game content. What magical land do you people live in, where selfishness and greed aren't predominant traits of humanity?

They are. They always will be. That has nothing to do with you not having a RME though. That only takes 1-3 people. Even the loudest idiot racist shouting slurs and "Yo Momma" jokes in port jeuno has that many friends. Knock off the sad face crap. Nothing but legion has required an ls since like what? 2010?

You keep saying that the weapons haven't changed and are still exactly the same weapons that we worked so hard for. Okay. The $6/hr that I made washing dishes when I was 16 years old is still the same $6 too.. But if my boss tries giving me that now, I'll punch him so hard he'll wake up back in 1990.

I don't know who touched you in the naughty spot, but life really isn't that full of bad men. Get over it.

[Wystan]

REM are the worst most boring grind ever I'm glad they will be phased out they are still worth using kept most players happily grinding away for 3 years. I never done one of my own the grind was way to mind numbing for me but i did help a lot of people get theirs.

Now we get some weapons from new content that doesn't involve killing the same nm's 50 times everyone starts to cry well i'm gonna join you my AF weapon sucks waaaaa it was good once now it sucks SE i hate you make it better.

[Teraniku]

REM are the worst most boring grind ever I'm glad they will be phased out they are still worth using kept most players happily grinding away for 3 years. I never done one of my own the grind was way to mind numbing for me but i did help a lot of people get theirs.

Now we get some weapons from new content that doesn't involve killing the same nm's 50 times everyone starts to cry well i'm gonna join you my AF weapon sucks waaaaa it was good once now it sucks SE i hate you make it better.

Yes and every time an REM owner cries / whines / pleads for the devs to put their weapon back at the top of the food chain, I laugh my ass off. I only have three words to say to them.... Chains of Promathia.

[Zohno]

REM being compared to AF weapons or equip obtainable in few days.
Are you trolling or just showing off your lack of intellect? Because if after so many posts and feedbacks it's still so hard to understand, I'm really worried.

[Wystan]

Let old content be just that old how many ever finished a Empy weapon next to no one ever because that after glow just wasn't worth it obtaining a REM takes time but it's just doing the same stuff over and over again no fun no variety just go kill a nm wait 4 hours kill again wait 4 hours kill again wait 4 hours kill again go to moogle kill next nm x 4 goto moogle get next trial kill nm x4 goto moogle go kill vnm x how ever many it takes to get the abysite to change color then kill vnm x6 hope for no color change goto moogle hunt more vnm x6 goto moogle get upgrade go to abysea kill x3 nm's get ki kill 1 nm repeat x 50 no this is boring mind numbing junk put in to keep you going for 3 years and it worked.

Time to move on to the new fun content and look back on the fun times you had gaining the R/E/M weapon....Oh you didn't enjoy it at all? why did you do it then why should old content always be on top? Why not move on to the next thing or was it so painful to finish the Empy weapon that you now feel rage at the fact you wasted so much time? MMO's are nothing but a huge time sync.

My AF should be the best as it came out before E/M/R so why should they get a boost and not my even older weapons?

Make a thread about getting more storage community posts less than 2 pages of replies post up a weapon nerf and wow look at all the tears filling the pages in seconds...... This game just get worse and worse yeah lets keep all the old content the top tier and hope we never get anything new that's worth trying to get. Like WoE that's still really popular loads of people flocked to it to get the lesser armor sets and weapons so many people flocked to it that the congestion was such a huge problem yes let us hope SE only ever make content that has worse gear on offer than what we already have because people will love doing the content with nothing worth obtaining in it wont they?

Edit I guess my main point is that R/E/M are good enough to get the new weapons so what's the problem?

[Zohno]

Let old content be just that old how many ever finished a Empy weapon next to no one ever because that after glow just wasn't worth it obtaining a REM takes time but it's just doing the same stuff over and over again no fun no variety just go kill a nm wait 4 hours kill again wait 4 hours kill again wait 4 hours kill again go to moogle kill next nm x 4 goto moogle get next trial kill nm x4 goto moogle go kill vnm x how ever many it takes to get the abysite to change color then kill vnm x6 hope for no color change goto moogle hunt more vnm x6 goto moogle get upgrade go to abysea kill x3 nm's get ki kill 1 nm repeat x 50 no this is boring mind numbing junk put in to keep you going for 3 years and it worked.

Time to move on to the new fun content and look back on the fun times you had gaining the R/E/M weapon....Oh you didn't enjoy it at all? why did you do it then why should old content always be on top? Why not move on to the next thing or was it so painful to finish the Empy weapon that you now feel rage at the fact you wasted so much time? MMO's are nothing but a huge time sync.

My AF should be the best as it came out before E/M/R so why should they get a boost and not my even older weapons?

Make a thread about getting more storage community posts less than 2 pages of replies post up a weapon nerf and wow look at all the tears filling the pages in seconds...... This game just get worse and worse yeah lets keep all the old content the top tier and hope we never get anything new that's worth trying to get. Like WoE that's still really popular loads of people flocked to it to get the lesser armor sets and weapons so many people flocked to it that the congestion was such a huge problem yes let us hope SE only ever make content that has worse gear on offer than what we already have because people will love doing the content with nothing worth obtaining in it wont they?

you should start from page 1 and reread the whole thread, maybe you will get what we are talking about then.

[Wystan]

What has been done is completely unacceptable and nothing short of adjusting the damage on REM will do. Period. My accounts go inactive on May 18th and I won't be resubbing until an acceptable resolution to this terrible development direction has been established.

Yes let us never have anything better to work towards great such fun. Make all the new content have worse drops than what we already have yes sir that's what we want every new update to be worthless tripe.

[FrankReynolds]

Yes let us never have anything better to work towards great such fun. Make all the new content have worse drops than what we already have yes sir that's what we want every new update to be worthless tripe.

Read the thread dummy. No one is asking for that.

[Kojo]

Yes and every time an REM owner cries / whines / pleads for the devs to put their weapon back at the top of the food chain, I laugh my ass off. I only have three words to say to them.... Chains of Promathia.

Do they usually laugh at you or actually ask what your point is?

[Wystan]

That has got to be one of the poorest dev responses that I have ever seen written. Basically says sorry you feel that your time has been wasted, and we have no plan in place but are panicking trying to come up with one. Please stay tuned.

What's wrong with that it's a mmo or should they just never make any new content ever because it might make you feel you wasted your time I got a message for you if you are playing a mmo or any kind of game you are wasting your time.

all this crying is insane so all new players to the game should have to grind for over 9 months just to be able to play the new content that by then will be old content and forever trying to catch up yeah cool guys you keep on. Maybe you should be happy that the new weapons allow new players to join the game work to get to 99 max out their skills then start earning bayld then move onto getting delve.
Other than spend months grinding in abyssea with next to no help because everyone is doing the new fun content get bored and quit.

No you guys are so right the best thing to do is to force all new players to grind through E/M/R and then hope they stick around to do content that only offers worse gear than they just spent the last 9 month getting.
Yes let's never get better only worse gear in new updates. Yes lets keep the new players out of the loop give them no way to ever catch up because we are all so selfish that everyone should have to go through the same trash you went through yep delve should only be for old players who have E/M/R weapons never should it get any better never should a new player be able to get a weapon through doing reives to earn some bayld to then do more new content with everyone else no they should stay months behind forever and a day.

PATHETIC!!!!!

[Zohno]

What's wrong with that it's a mmo or should they just never make any new content ever because it might make you feel you wasted your time I got a message for you if you are playing a mmo or any kind of game you are wasting your time.

all this crying is insane so all new players to the game should have to grind for over 9 months just to be able to play the new content that by then will be old content and forever trying to catch up yeah cool guys you keep on. Maybe you should be happy that the new weapons allow new players to join the game work to get to 99 max out their skills then start earning bayld then move onto getting delve.
Other than spend months grinding in abyssea with next to no help because everyone is doing the new fun content get bored and quit.

No you guys are so right the best thing to do is to force all new players to grind through E/M/R and then hope they stick around to do content that only offers worse gear than they just spent the last 9 month getting.
Yes let's never get better only worse gear in new updates. Yes lets keep the new players out of the loop give them no way to ever catch up because we are all so selfish that everyone should have to go through the same trash you went through yep delve should only be for old players who have E/M/R weapons never should it get any better never should a new player be able to get a weapon through doing reives to earn some bayld to then do more new content with everyone else no they should stay months behind forever and a day.

PATHETIC!!!!!

After every expansion the previous events have been simplified, by lowering the difficulty or by lv cap remotion.
Every guy who starts an old MMO knows that he will have to catch up to older players, otherwise he shouldn't even start if doesn't have that kind of mindset.
And again none is asking to stop the implementation of new stuff. If you read some of the posts you would know it by now. But probably you are here just to troll and spit nonsense post after post, right?

[Wystan]

Read the thread dummy. No one is asking for that.

Asking for an extra 150 dmg on an empy no what are you asking for then that they stay the best forever?

We wana be able to upgrade our E/M/R......Why not upgrade to a whole new weapon or is it that the new weapons are just too easy for new people to get and you have nothing to extend your E-peen with anymore?

This game was good at 75 now it's just all about the gear not the NM's not the story just grinding gear to get more gear........

Why should this mmo exclude new players so harshly try getting a group of people that don't know you to go out and do vnm's yeah good luck....

How are those new people getting on finishing the starter city clears of dyna/VW?

If they allow people to upgrade Empy weapons without obtaining the after glow well that's just a shame. Why should a half finished weapon be able to upgrade to the next form when it isn't even finished because of the amount of tears shed by less than 10% of the players but you are the only 50 people that bother to post on the forums every day and it's all tears.

RDM needs a lot of work SMN needs a lot of work E/R/M need no adjustments at all but because of waaaa yeah lets get the two devs waste time on em because a few can't handle gear progression. XI has phased out sky gear ToAU gear everything and now it's abyssea's turn to be phased out and what do we have nothing but tears no yay we got new stuffs to get new nm's to kill no we want the devs to go back a waste time on R/M/E....

[Wystan]

After every expansion the previous events have been simplified, by lowering the difficulty or by lv cap remotion.
Every guy who starts an old MMO knows that he will have to catch up to older players, otherwise he shouldn't even start if doesn't have that kind of mindset.
And again none is asking to stop the implementation of new stuff. If you read some of the posts you would know it by now. But probably you are here just to troll and spit nonsense post after post, right?

So they should make E/M/R easier to obtain? Yeah lol you guys would scream even louder if that happened.

Why if the old E/M/R are good enough to get the new weapons are you so hurt by the new stuff? If you are not asking for improvements to R/M/E why does this thread exist?

I fail to see this thread as anything except my gear aint top tier anymore and it took me months to obtain why is this?

They are as good as they ever were why demand improvements when the new weapons are even better and obtainable?

[Kojo]

Idea:
Bereaver
Dmg: 175
Delve: Dmg: 209

Do that and raise R/M/Es to just above Skirmish weapons, and the game is more balanced and the rage would end.

Relics would still be on top outside of Delve, past content wouldn't be as pointless, new weapons could be dual wielded with the augments from Delve and Delve weapons retain usefulness when they are needed. Boom!

[Wystan]

Idea:
Bereaver
Dmg: 175
Delve: Dmg: 209

Do that and raise R/M/Es to just above Skirmish weapons, and the game is more balanced and the rage would end.

Or use R/M/E to get new weapons............Put R/M/E into storage and remember the fun you had obtaining them.

[Lotto]

Yes and every time an REM owner cries / whines / pleads for the devs to put their weapon back at the top of the food chain, I laugh my ass off. I only have three words to say to them.... Chains of Promathia.

Care to explain? Because I don't see the link with CoP...

[Byrth]

... even if the new weapons lack all the advantages that made you want to make the RME.

Aphotic Kukri is D91. That's fab, but it doesn't give me 3~4 Finishing Moves per Step like Terpsichore.

Rigor Baghnakhs are D+101. That's also nice, but they don't suppress overload and give a huge Martial Arts boost like Kenkonken.

They're also boring to use compared to aftermath weapons, even if they're easier to use.

[Kojo]

Care to explain? Because I see the link with CoP...

Me, either.

[Teraniku]

Do they usually laugh at you or actually ask what your point is?

The point is this ... Chains of Promathia was changed from it's original vision because everyone else bitched whined and moaned that it was too hard. The only reason a lot of them were bitching whining and moaning wasn't because they wanted to finish the storyline (because those of us who wanted to finish the storyline did so already) It was because they wanted the reward at the end. In effect this is similar to what is going on now with REM owners. They are complaining that the new gear makes their precious weapon obsolete and Demand SE bring their weapon up to top dog standards again.

[Kojo]

The point is this ... Chains of Promathia was changed from it's original vision because everyone else bitched whined and moaned that it was too hard. The only reason a lot of them were bitching whining and moaning wasn't because they wanted to finish the storyline (because those of us who wanted to finish the storyline did so already) It was because they wanted the reward at the end. In effect this is similar to what is going on now with REM owners. They are complaining that the new gear makes their precious weapon a has been and Demand SE bring their weapon up to top dog standards again.

CoP wasn't hard, it was just annoying. Your comparison makes no sense, either.

[Zohno]

The point is this ... Chains of Promathia was changed from it's original vision because everyone else bitched whined and moaned that it was too hard. The only reason a lot of them were bitching whining and moaning wasn't because they wanted to finish the storyline (because those of us who wanted to finish the storyline did so already) It was because they wanted the reward at the end. In effect this is similar to what is going on now with REM owners. They are complaining that the new gear makes their precious weapon a has been and Demand SE bring their weapon up to top dog standards again.

COP was changed because was a too old event and there weren't enough people around willing to join the capped areas and complete it.

[Wystan]

COP was changed because was a too old event and there weren't enough people around willing to join the capped areas and complete it.

So why condemn any new players to XI to the same problem in Abyssea?

[Teraniku]

CoP wasn't hard, it was just annoying. Your comparison makes no sense, either.

You mean the point of SE changing content (like a lot of REM owners are demanding?)

[Kojo]

You mean the point of SE changing content (like a lot of REM owners are demanding?)

CoP was changed because it was dated and people were less likely to help on level capped missions. It left alot of people unable to progress. The fact that some may have complained about it is must different than the current situation, it really, truly doesn't compare.

[FrankReynolds]

Asking for an extra 150 dmg on an empy no what are you asking for then that they stay the best forever?

Yes. That was the whole point of these weapons. They were to be the best weapons in the game period.

[/quote]We wana be able to upgrade our E/M/R......Why not upgrade to a whole new weapon or is it that the new weapons are just too easy for new people to get and you have nothing to extend your E-peen with anymore?[/quote]

WTF does epeen have to do with this? I could apply that stupid epeen argument to every piece of gear that you own. If you think that wanting good gear is a sign of some weird overly inflated ego, You might as well quit the game now. After all, you don't want people thinking that you are overly concerned with the size of your imaginary wiener every time you lot an item right? Better to stay at level 1 forever so that no one thinks you are trying to compensate for a lack of manliness.


This game was good at 75 now it's just all about the gear not the NM's not the story just grinding gear to get more gear........

And your solution to this is to get rid of old gear and replace it with more gear... What's it like to be schizophrenic? Is it super cool? or is it painful? Didn't you just say you wanted new gear to replace the old?


Why should this mmo exclude new players so harshly try getting a group of people that don't know you to go out and do vnm's yeah good luck....

That's pretty much the way that every VNM has been beaten since the inception of VNMs. Have you logged into the game since VNMs came out? There have been shouts for them all day every day pretty much ever since they were invented.


How are those new people getting on finishing the starter city clears of dyna/VW?

The same way they finished every other piece of content ever put in this game?


If they allow people to upgrade Empy weapons without obtaining the after glow well that's just a shame. Why should a half finished weapon be able to upgrade to the next form when it isn't even finished because of the amount of tears shed by less than 10% of the players but you are the only 50 people that bother to post on the forums every day and it's all tears.

This is what you are really all about. Stirring up crap. Do us a favor and at least post some entertaining memes and videos to accompany your trolling. Maybe step up your insults too. You can do better than this.


RDM needs a lot of work SMN needs a lot of work E/R/M need no adjustments at all but because of waaaa yeah lets get the two devs waste time on em because a few can't handle gear progression. XI has phased out sky gear ToAU gear everything and now it's abyssea's turn to be phased out and what do we have nothing but tears no yay we got new stuffs to get new nm's to kill no we want the devs to go back a waste time on R/M/E....

What does abyssea have to do with mythics and relics? Do you even play this game? You don't seem to even know what these weapons are.


I never played wow for more than the 2 week trial so your argument is that all old gear was worth using even after new gear was released.....?

Because that is total bs no one uses gear from pre 99 cap much at all ever most people only use gear from Abysea so should the devs go back and fix all the AF weapons ToAU weapons Sky weapons gear and don't forget all the gear from WotG or what about all the gear from AF quests yes all this gear is still well used by all..........No no it's not you are all just crying over wasting in your opinion so much time.

You're just not getting it guy and I doubt you ever will.

People are and still will be using gear from pre-level-cap for a long time. You're making things up now. They may not use all of it, but they do still use it. It's a terrible comparison anyways. You and everyone else here knows that the difference between a pair of B.Haidates and a 99 relic is monumental. None of the crap you just named ever held a candle to the difficulty of acquiring one of these weapons. What's more, none of that gear was ever promoted by the dev team as the end all be all of gear like these weapons were.

Try something like this. It makes trolling more entertaining:

http://i.qkme.me/3uabr6.jpg

[Wystan]

So when abyssea came out SE stated that never ever will they make any weapons better ever this is the same crap that hit the fan when Empy weapons first came out and yes i have quit XI and not because SE phased out R/E/M weapons but because this game is nothing but macro gear and bot's are everywhere and new blood quits as soon as the first month is up. You cherry picked the questions nicely. Keep on posting like you believe your comments are what the majority of people playing xi are thinking too.

Why should the already stretched Dev team waste time and money on old gear when they could be making new and better gear no yes lets all stay on the old content and never progress onto new content or gear sets.

Lets keep on smashing our heads against that RNG brick wall lets make every new player have to go through old content no one wants to do anymore and please SE keep on making content that makes us have to do the same thing 150 times because it takes skill to get an empy.
No it does not it takes time and nothing more why not make it so new players can get a good gear set and go out there and play along side their fellow players with E/M/R weapons and everyone has a shot at the new best gear with minimal time wasted on old content no one wants to do anymore?

[Zohno]

So when abyssea came out SE stated that never ever will they make any weapons better ever this is the same crap that hit the fan when Empy weapons first came out and yes i have quit XI and not because SE phased out R/E/M weapons but because this game is nothing but macro gear and windower whores bot's are everywhere and new blood quits as soon as the first month is up. You cherry picked the questions nicely. Keep on posting like you believe your comments are what the majority of people playing xi are thinking too.

Why should the already stretched Dev team waste time and money on old gear when they could be making new and better gear no yes lets all stay on the old content and never progress onto new content or gear sets.

Lets keep on smashing our heads against that RNG brick wall lets make every new player have to go through old content no one wants to do anymore and please SE keep on making content that makes us have to do the same thing 150 times because it takes skill to get an empy.
No it does not it takes time and nothing more why not make it so new players can get a good gear set and go out there and play along side their fellow players with E/M/R weapons and everyone has a shot at the new best gear with minimal time wasted on old content no one wants to do anymore?

Guess what? We are asking exactly what you are asking for, new weapons! with the only difference that they use our REM as starting point!
If REM are so easy and just require time, why don't you own one? Maybe because they aren't that easy to get, huh!?
And new players can join, get bayld gear and do weapon trials if they wanna play together with any other player out there. Optionally, if they wanna be even better, they will be able to get REM or Delve weapons and related equip, yes, because the new equip you are asking for is already out there if you didn't notice. But probably you stay in your mog house using FFXI as a skype alternative instead of going out there accomplishing something, right?

It's an MMO. It's supposed that players work to get better! If they wanna play for a couple of days and to feel accomplished, they are free to install angry birds and slide their thumbs to death.

[Alerith]

ITT:

People complaining about people complaining that their ultimate weapons, which are SUPPOSED to be the best, are no longer the best.

"You want R/M/E to be the best forever?"

...duh. That's what they were designed for.

[ReplicaX]

If they allow people to upgrade Empy weapons without obtaining the after glow well that's just a shame. Why should a half finished weapon be able to upgrade to the next form when it isn't even finished because of the amount of tears shed by less than 10% of the players but you are the only 50 people that bother to post on the forums every day and it's all tears.

What a complete joke, just like afterglow. No tears here.

I'd rather see 250 marrows goto 50 ppl finishing a 95 to 99 relic than some visual mark and trash hidden effect.

[Teraniku]

CoP was changed because it was dated and people were less likely to help on level capped missions. It left alot of people unable to progress. The fact that some may have complained about it is must different than the current situation, it really, truly doesn't compare.

Why does it not compare? All RME owners are asking for their weapon to be changed back to the best. You are asking for content (in this case, the weapon) to be changed so it's back to being the best. You feel that you don't want to do the new content because your weapon isn't the best anymore.

[Kojo]

Why does it not compare? All RME owners are asking for their weapon to be changed back to the best. You are asking for content (in this case, the weapon) to be changed so it's back to being the best. You feel that you don't want to do the new content because your weapon isn't the best anymore.

No, I want the weapons to be on top again, where we were assured they'd remain all these years. I think the new weapons should be nerfed because their over-the-top damage disrupts game balance. You totally missed my point, and yes, this is much different than them uncapping CoP missions and zones.

[Karbuncle]

Why does it not compare? All RME owners are asking for their weapon to be changed back to the best. You are asking for content (in this case, the weapon) to be changed so it's back to being the best. You feel that you don't want to do the new content because your weapon isn't the best anymore.

Hi, Relic owner here, I know its easier to sound smart when you take an entire population of players and smash them into one biased vacuum of accusations, but, I don't want my Mandau to be best again, I just want it to not be so laughably far behind that using it is about as effect as a 75 Player wielding a Windurstian Kukri.

I'd be happy with it being 2/3rd best, but still main-handable, cause I like Mercy, and i like its benefits. Considering the gil, time, and friends time I sunk into it, into a weapon designed to remain the best forever, is that so much to ask for?

P.S The amount of just unrivaled arrogance on the part of the "lolrme" side is getting to the point of hypocrisy, ya'll keep using "epeen" as an argument, when you don't realize the hypocrisy is you're now flailing yours around because of this update. You're no different than the imaginary people you're calling elitist/epeeners (hint: Projective issues), Its just you're too lazy for it to be warranted and thus could never do it.

[Areayea]

there is a version update tomorrow, that could be the OMG LET"S MAKE RMEs BEST AGAIN >< lol

[Kojo]

there is a version update tomorrow, that could be the OMG LET"S MAKE RMEs BEST AGAIN >< lol

It's a Delve adjustment, thought things could be hidden in it.

[Raksha]

I wonder what we'll regret wishing for tomorrow.

[Vivivivi]

Merge Weapons
Development team, please consider the following idea:

If a player has obtained both the Delve and an equivalent R/M/E/WoE weapon, why not introduce a quest to merge, or infuse the RMEC weapon with the power of the Delve weapon (not just for level 99 version either).

Example:
Let's say the player has a level 99 Excalibur.
The level 75 base damage is 49, and at 99 it is 73. For a total damage boost of 24.
Additionally there is a +20 attack bonus for upgrading to the 99 version, and of course Knights of the Round with Aftermath.

Why not allow the stats of the newly acquired Halachuinic Sword with base stats of DMG:104 Accuracy+16 Attack+15 to be "infused" into the excalibur, and add on the degree to which the player has completed magian trials.

In this case the players level 99 Excalibur would now have the stats of
DMG: 128, Acc +16, Attack + 35, Knights of the Round, and Aftermath.

I understand it would be complicated to implement, but I think it solves two important needs- maintaining the desire to obtain delve weapons, and keeping RMEC weapons in a class all to their own.

[Zumi]

At first I was like kind of mad I spent close to 400m on relics and empyreans. But now I kind of don't care too much that they are getting outclassed. R/M/E now have their role as a steping stone to Delve weapons. I am prefectly fine with gear progression, they do it in almost every other MMO. SoA is a new expansion and some things change.

However because people did spend a lot of time and gil getting R/M/E if they wanted to make people happy keep them playing. They could easily use the Airlixir up upgrade relics.

For example you can now upgrade a level 99 r/m/e with Airlixir 15 ranks.
1. + base damage
2. acc/attack
3. a stat

However make the total base damage gained lower then delve weapons due to these having aftermaths and exclusive WS.

[RushLynx]

No, I want the weapons to be on top again, where we were assured they'd remain all these years.

You might want to stop listening to the voices in your head, no one ever promised anything regarding RME's and their role in future content...

[Karbuncle]

Actually, they did. It was mentioned that Relics/Mythics (those specifically) would remain on top into the forseeable future. While i know they dont always hold to their promises, its not like they're far off bounds.

[Kojo]

Actually, they did. It was mentioned that Relics/Mythics (those specifically) would remain on top into the forseeable future. While i know they dont always hold to their promises, its not like they're far off bounds.

That guy's a troll, don't waste your time.

[RushLynx]

Actually, they did. It was mentioned that Relics/Mythics (those specifically) would remain on top into the forseeable future. While i know they dont always hold to their promises, its not like they're far off bounds.

I would be interested in knowing the circumstances under which this was stated... as careful as they always are about saying anything conclusive about things that aren't already in the final stages of development... Was this when they first started giving them magian trials?

[Xamot]

After reading these posts, clearly SE needs to do the following:

1. All new players, upon completion of registering a new account, are awarded a fully skilled and leveled 99 job of their choice.
2. Upon successful login, said player can check their delivery box for all of the latest and greatest weapons and armor.
3. New players have access to a "bank moogle" from which they will receive gil free of charge.

After all, we'd hate for any new player of a 10 YEAR OLD GAME, to be behind established players who have been playing this game for several years. I, for one, think it's awful for a player who's spent the time, effort and gil leveling up a craft to it's max to have amassed more of a fortune than a player who has been on for a week. And let's not get started on those RME weapons. Why should someone who has been playing for almost 10 years have an advantage over a new player? The travesty in such a thought is just... I can't continue, the thought saddens me. End sarcasm, now.

If SE wanted to reboot the game in regards to gear and weapons, they should have truly rebooted the game much like what WoW did with Cataclysm and SE is doing with XIV. Give us a "new game"; end PS2 support and put out for the PS3, upgrade the graphics, and do whatever else they'd like. SoA was not a reboot. It was an expansion, and never in this game have they made such a big jump in base damage on weapons. And please, spare me the "content is harder" comments. I have done some of this new content, and there was nothing hard about it. They just increased NM evasion, def and HP. The path they chose, by making these new weapons, is to basically make everything outside of Delve and Abyssea irrelevant. Why Aby? They are the zones of choice for level-burning. Unless you are a BRD or PLD, there is no reason to go do Dynamis and VW. Oh yes, Voidwatch, another group of people who got shafted in this update. I wonder how many people spent countless hours and gil attempting to acquire weapons that were comparable to RME? This game has always been about achievement. NM drops, such as Kirin's Osode have always been replaceable by their nature, so please, this comparison does not hold water. Relics used to take years to build, not months like they do now. SE made that change in order to encourage more people to get relics. Mythics, and much later Empyreans, were more end-game weapons added to compliment Relics, not replace. Then come the Voidwatch weapons, yet another choice for players seeking end-game weapons. At no point did any of these weapons make anything irrelevant, like what happened with this update. They just required an effort to obtain. Just because you chose not to take a path of many to acquire an end-game weapon, that is not the fault of those of us that did. Complacency should not be rewarded, it only delays progress.

[AldielQuetz]

I would be interested in knowing the circumstances under which this was stated... as careful as they always are about saying anything conclusive about things that aren't already in the final stages of development... Was this when they first started giving them magian trials?

Derp derp um pet:treasure hunter+1 THEY ALWAYS SAY THINGS OUT OF THEIR ASSES BEFORE THEY GET THEIR STORY STRAIGHT. The bottom line Bisquik is that they not only said they would keep REMs on top but they also promised that we wouldn't have anymore trials. Now those of us that made these are willing to forgive the promise to not have trials and do some more(God have mercy on us all) and still be able to keep weapons we spent hundreds of millions of Gil on.

The end dude

[RushLynx]

Derp derp um pet:treasure hunter+1 THEY ALWAYS SAY THINGS OUT OF THEIR ASSES BEFORE THEY GET THEIR STORY STRAIGHT.

Sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding... you do know that some pets really do have Treasure Hunter +1, right? Also, Bisquik was an LS leader of mine that quit eons ago...

You're the first person I've heard claim that SE promised them that they wouldn't make them do trials... Where exactly was all of this said, these forums? The old POL page? I'm assuming these statements still exist, archived, somewhere... I'd very much like to read them.

[Demon6324236]

Now those of us that made these are willing to forgive the promise to not have trials and do some more(God have mercy on us all) and still be able to keep weapons we spent hundreds of millions of Gil on.Screw trials, make a simple quest with the Inventors.

NPC:Ah, I see you have one of those super weapons we keep hearing about! We hear some Moogles from Jeuno were trying to unlock their true power, it seems they did a good job, but around here we have had to develop much more powerful weapons to deal with the monsters in the wilds. Have you heard of the Naakuals? Fierce beasts, some of the strongest things around, I hear some of you adventures have been taking them on.

Well heres the deal, they have crests which are imbued with really powerful magic, and with that magic I think we might be able to transform your weapons into even stronger weapons! Whats that? The Moogles said this is their most powerful form? Ha! Moogle magic is strong but the magic these creatures have stored in their crests is much more powerful. The catch is, we need some balance between them all, you see, these beasts have elements that go along with the magic stored, to much of any one element would be to hard to control and would break the weapon. Good thing for us is that there are 7 of them, 1 of each element would be enough to create a balance so we can infuse your weapon with those magics and create a real weapon, one which would make even the Naakuals themselves cower in fear! Now I understand asking you to bring down the 7 Naakuals seems like a lot of work, but I can assure you, their power when finished will be unrivaled except by those of their own caliber.

>Come back next game day<

Hmm~ I see you are back, but you do not yet have the 7 crests, well, let me make you a deal. Leave me one of your weapons to examine, it has to be at its final stage, anything sooner would be worthless for me to examine. I will look at it so I can gather more information on how exactly we will be infusing this with the Naakuals magic, once I finish, you can come back and retrieve it from me, I will use the data to get everything ready for you so as soon as you have the crests we can begin the process!

>Trade an R/M/E and wait till after the next JP Midnight<

Well well well, look who came back, I finished looking at your weapon, it seems infusing the magic to that thing will be a cake walk, there is only one thing. Originally we thought we would be able to simply infuse it with magic, well, we can, but to help you out with getting those crests we found we can actually take that special technique attached to it and allow you to use it with any weapon! Thats right, all that time you have been carrying around that weapon just for that ability, well, no longer, I can take any of those weapons you have me examine and learn their power, then I can basically copy that power and fuse it right into your body, so you can use it any time with any weapon you please. Using the 7 crests will still create an amazing weapon of course, but the ability itself is powerful as well, and I can understand if you only want that, after all, not many people are brave enough to take on those nasty Naakuals!

>Trade back the weapon<

Oh, you want the skill? Ok, comin right up!

>You see a flash, then a loud bang<

Well, the magic is a bit... explosive, but it gets the job done. There you are, the ability is all yours, it may not have the extra effects you would normally get with it, but its something right? Good luck out there!



For R & E you unlock just the WS, for Mythics you unlock the job altering power of the Mythic. In the case of DNC for instance you get +1 FM on your weapon, or for Yagrush you would get AoE-na spells and so on. This way everyone gains something!

[Teraniku]

Hi, Relic owner here, I know its easier to sound smart when you take an entire population of players and smash them into one biased vacuum of accusations, but, I don't want my Mandau to be best again, I just want it to not be so laughably far behind that using it is about as effect as a 75 Player wielding a Windurstian Kukri.

I'd be happy with it being 2/3rd best, but still main-handable, cause I like Mercy, and i like its benefits. Considering the gil, time, and friends time I sunk into it, into a weapon designed to remain the best forever, is that so much to ask for?

P.S The amount of just unrivaled arrogance on the part of the "lolrme" side is getting to the point of hypocrisy, ya'll keep using "epeen" as an argument, when you don't realize the hypocrisy is you're now flailing yours around because of this update. You're no different than the imaginary people you're calling elitist/epeeners (hint: Projective issues), Its just you're too lazy for it to be warranted and thus could never do it.

I'm sorry Karb, you are correct about the blanket statement and I apologize. I understand your frustration. It basically comes down to:

- Time effort Gil etc.
-New weapons have significantly higher base damage then RME
- Dev team not having a real plan on what to do with or an upgrade path for RME in place before putting all this new gear into the game.

Totally get it. No I don't have any of the new weapons yet.

[Zohno]

Sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding... you do know that some pets really do have Treasure Hunter +1, right? Also, Bisquik was an LS leader of mine that quit eons ago...

You're the first person I've heard claim that SE promised them that they wouldn't make them do trials... Where exactly was all of this said, these forums? The old POL page? I'm assuming these statements still exist, archived, somewhere... I'd very much like to read them.

here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/31485-New-weapons-with-higher-base-damage-then-relics?p=424630#post424630

"we will be implementing a system to build on R/M/E weapons"

how does that compare to "We are planning to unlock the special weapon skills"?

[Alpheus]

Sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding... you do know that some pets really do have Treasure Hunter +1, right?

Was THIII they nerfed it down to one, people complained and they said they would add equipment to bring it back up. The gear never came. Pretty sure that's what AldielQuetz's comment was referring to.

[anjitwo]

still see no hints as to an r/m/e fix se hurry it the f up

[RushLynx]

here: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/31485-New-weapons-with-higher-base-damage-then-relics?p=424630#post424630

"we will be implementing a system to build on R/M/E weapons"

how does that compare to "We are planning to unlock the special weapon skills"?

How is that the same as saying 'RMEs will always be on top and we're never going to make you do a trial to keep it there.'...?

[Zohno]

How is that the same as saying 'RMEs will always be on top and we're never going to make you do a trial to keep it there.'...?

If you wanna keep playing the devil's advocate, go ahead. I'll stop replying to the same questions over and over when it has been answered already in so many pages. Have fun.