Dragoon Endgame Lances

[Hawklaser]

Wanting to get a good endgame lance, and while knowing Ryo is the best, the pre-reqs to making one is going to take a while. Currently using Patientia Lance, and working on making a Magian lance. With my Magian lance nearing the point of differentiating between OaT and Empy, been wondering on which route to go while waiting on Kirata to play nice.

Lot of what I have been hearing is to steer away from making the Empy lance. But how does it compare to the lances after the OaT magian? Then there is also the question of how do the new SoA lances compare to the other top lances.

[Babekeke]

After Ryuinohige, Emp and Relic are still the next best thing, but for the amount of work put in, OAT is very good, and STR magian in some situations is about tied.

Patientia Lance falls behind others like Delphinius (though you will struggle to 5-hit Delph unless you have phorcy's), and also an extremely good substitute is Herja's Fork.

If you're doing a lot of Reives, the Bayld one isn't bad. As good as Patientia outside of reives, and much better in reives.

The new ones on AH are better than Patientia, however the price will be dropping so unless you want to lose money on it, it's not an ideal time to buy while waiting for your Ryu. Again with the AH ones, the NQ is better if you don't have Phorcy's, as you can make a 5-hit easier.

Edited post-noobery

[Demon6324236]

Patientia Lance falls behind others like Ephemeron (though you will struggle to 5-hit Eph unless you have phorcy's), and also an extremely good substitute is Herja's Fork.You can make a 5-hit with a sword?! O_O

No really though, you meant Delphinius (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Delphinius), the Polearm, not Ephemeron (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Ephemeron), the sword, but thats ok, the weapons never drop anyways so its not a big deal.

[Umichi]

Vougiers contus imho

[Hawklaser]

Ok, so then how do the Relic and Emp compare to each other? As looking at going Patientia -> OAT -> ??? -> Mythic for lances then. And the ??? Would be Relic or Emp, and maybe another step in there depending on SoA lances.

[Umichi]

I would put RME all in the same boat as a drg you have many paths to choose from and most of them stem from the primary sub you use. i personaly am shooting for gugnir. i mainly play /whm and the acc is unbeatable on almost any weapon known in the game. sdding to drgs already superb acc the relic makes for more fully connected hits. shock spikes is great for soloing. and also has a very high base damage. Mythic is the al around awsomest but i'd put relic and empy up there with it as it depends on how the drg is using each one.

[detlef]

Ryunohige is the best no matter what your situation is. RME may be in the same boat but R and E are shoveling coal below deck.

[Umichi]

We'll see how well they perform in the hands of people who are skillful with lances vs min/maxers....

[Umichi]

in this expansion that is

[Horadrim]

After Ryuinohige, Emp and Relic are still the next best thing, but for the amount of work put in they are generally considered not worth it, OAT is very good, and STR magian in some situations is about tied.

I felt like this was missing from your post?

Yeah, this line is more or less exactly what I've been told. It's basically make Ryuinohige and be happy, make Empyrean/Relic and be disappointed, or make OAT and be satisfied.

Most of it, I've been told, is linked to the nature of DRG's operation within the game. It is really disappointing that this is the case, but after getting to Chesma on Verethragna and being stuck on Bugbear Strongman for Arma (which honestly will likely end up being Mollfirth, because despite the fact I have no problem farming NMs, breaking 90 is a mess and a half and I'm having a hard time understanding the real difference between Arma 90 (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Armageddon_(Level_90)) and 99 Mollfirth (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Mollfrith) beyond the AGI. I've been told the aftermath is almost unnoticeable due to the way ranged attacks work. Plus I'm a MAB COR, so yeah....

[detlef]

We'll see how well they perform in the hands of people who are skillful with lances vs min/maxers....What does that even mean? Yet another one of your cryptic posts with no substance.

[Horadrim]

What does that even mean? Yet another one of your cryptic posts with no substance.

...?

"We'll see how their [potential new weapons] numbers fair when you compare them [to RME] in the hands of skillful players who number crunch."

I guess...? My only clue was that he added "in this expansion" suggesting the intended "they" was forecoming weapons like the skirmish lance, which actually falls along side the OAT by my estimation. Maybe closer to RE

[Hawklaser]

...?

"We'll see how their [potential new weapons] numbers fair when you compare them [to RME] in the hands of skillful players who number crunch."

I guess...? My only clue was that he added "in this expansion" suggesting the intended "they" was forecoming weapons like the skirmish lance, which actually falls along side the OAT by my estimation. Maybe closer to RE

Which is part of why I am curious as to how the new ones hold up, as going to want one to work towards after OAT while waiting on Mythic pre-reqs to get done. Same reason curious about the comparison between Relic and Emp.

[Horadrim]

Which is part of why I am curious as to how the new ones hold up, as going to want one to work towards after OAT while waiting on Mythic pre-reqs to get done. Same reason curious about the comparison between Relic and Emp.

I can't help you there, I'm completely new to DRG. I just know that, purportedly, Mythic (Relic/Empy) > OAT > Other is the current standard. Though personally, I think it is a bit arbitrary.

I'm sort of annoyed with the fact the game has been diluted into Magian trials or bust, and I frankly prefer people having different options for weapons. Seeing everyone running around with the same 3 weapons gets kind of old. I want more side grades, but apparently that's an unpopular opinion.

For the most part, I'm likely to stick to stuff that drops -- like Skirmish.

[detlef]

I can't speak for how good Gungnir and Rhongo are, but Ryuno is pretty amazing. AM3 is wonderful, and DRG is one of the few jobs that is able to build the necessary TP almost instantly.

For most players, I think skirmish and naakual weapons are very reasonable goals if you are serious about the job but not serious enough to make a mythic. I wouldn't say that these events are accessible to everybody right now, but when skirmish items become more common and Naakual bayld cost comes down, it should be reasonable for just about anybody to participate.

[Umichi]

What does that even mean? Yet another one of your cryptic posts with no substance. it means exactly what it meant. it says there are people who dedicate all their research into min/maxing for a job AKA can't get past the numbers this usualy means that there is only one best way to do things..... I myself do not min/max i have a fair knowledge about the inner workings of the games but i don't go into all the theoretical math people like to go into.. (eg. I know that 2str ~ 1 attack etc etc)

I also mainly sub /whm on my drg. now does the way i play mean that your guy's min/maxing numbers for one job and one sub or a few subs tells me i need to equip a ryunohige to be a good healer? I've heard of gugnir drgs parsing better in legion where fights take time vs zerg fights where jobs like war sam and drk reign king (by zerg i'm refering to really short fights usualy entailing massive amounts of damage being administered rapidly)

Now how will past stragetigies over the past year work out as SE unviels more of audolin, which they stated will be catered specifically to level 99's, alot of people complained alot about how tough the monsters were but they forgotten that they've had their arses augmented over the past 2 years and most of the content (outside of WotG and even then it was crafted for 75ish kinda...) is outdated...


so yeah will skill where a player needs to know what they are doing win over min/max statistics? I myself am already feeling like I'm a completely different player than most people when it comes to playing drg. and i read up on strategies used by other drgs who use the same subs as me... and i read up on all the discussions about how much haste maybe this type of drg should have, or the benifits from using a longer delay over a shorter delay... all im saying is there are two types of players who use the data given to them in the game to make completely different and equally powerful decisions.

which one will play out in the end. skill or numbers. and last i checked SE has sided with skill.

[detlef]

I also mainly sub /whm on my drg. now does the way i play mean that your guy's min/maxing numbers for one job and one sub or a few subs tells me i need to equip a ryunohige to be a good healer? I've heard of gugnir drgs parsing better in legion where fights take time vs zerg fights where jobs like war sam and drk reign king (by zerg i'm refering to really short fights usualy entailing massive amounts of damage being administered rapidly)In Legion you have to kill as many mobs as you can in 30 minutes, which makes kill speed even more important than in Voidwatch. Each fight goes by pretty quickly, and it's actually more of a zerg than Voidwatch is.


so yeah will skill where a player needs to know what they are doing win over min/max statistics? I myself am already feeling like I'm a completely different player than most people when it comes to playing drg. and i read up on strategies used by other drgs who use the same subs as me... and i read up on all the discussions about how much haste maybe this type of drg should have, or the benifits from using a longer delay over a shorter delay... all im saying is there are two types of players who use the data given to them in the game to make completely different and equally powerful decisions.It's good that you have an understanding of haste and delay. Honest question: As someone who does not not a min/max, how does this knowledge affect your play style?


which one will play out in the end. skill or numbers. and last i checked SE has sided with skill.Skill and good gear are not mutually exclusive. This whole discussion came from your claim that RME were all "in the same boat." I simply think that if you give someone a 99 version of all 3 weapons, Ryunohige will be universally better. Unless you are fighting an incredibly evasive monster that spams encumbrance every 5 seconds and is weak to shock spikes and tridents.

[Umichi]

i find alot of people are surprised when it comes to 6 man ptys that i can play very well because i know when to back off etc etc. on gear wise i find that when i make subtle changes to my gear i can spot if the move benifited me or not, when im choosing gear i choose whats going to keep the whole bubble of gear equivalent to what type of drg i wanna be. do i wanna be fast with high tp gain? well i could use gugnir cap out haste on gear and stack tp with str. just put it this way i treat it like any other ff game im presented with a choice and i gotta chose which one will help me or what am i giving up in order to gain this.


Forgive me i might be confusiong legion with bastion. which ever one does not involve abyssea.

[Babekeke]

So you gear your DRG to do slightly less damage than the tank, so you don't pull hate? An interesting choice. Might as well just take a party of PLDs or NINs. But hey, a choice is a choice.

[Umichi]

That's the whole point.... If you're playing high end content that's difficult you never want to pull more hate than the tank... In an even extreme example it helps against getting your ass handed to you when your paired up with an inexperienced tank... or perhaps someone not meant to tank but has better capabilities than you.

[Hawklaser]

So you gear your DRG to do slightly less damage than the tank, so you don't pull hate? An interesting choice. Might as well just take a party of PLDs or NINs. But hey, a choice is a choice.

It's not so much as doing less damage then the tank, but knowing how to keep from creating hate faster than the tank. Does no good doing extremely high damage if it starts getting you or others in your group killed. DRG actually can push the envelope on this more thanks to its built in hate shedding mechanics, too bad its hard to actually hit that point without some of the best gear as is.

But back to lances, curious now as to whats going to happen with weapons in general once the new delve patch weapons become more common, as at a quick glance they look to outstrip every weapon by a nice margin, as that large of damage jump is hard to make up in secondary effects alone.

[Umichi]

I'm going after the NQ polearm until i finish my Relic, Being on an average level of play obtaining the really high up lance might be hard for me doable but a work in progress

[Babekeke]

It's not so much as doing less damage then the tank, but knowing how to keep from creating hate faster than the tank. Does no good doing extremely high damage if it starts getting you or others in your group killed. DRG actually can push the envelope on this more thanks to its built in hate shedding mechanics, too bad its hard to actually hit that point without some of the best gear as is.

This isn't what he was saying at all though. He said he decides whether it's better to build for haste/store TP or whether it's better to gear to take less hate. DRG is great (the best job) at dealing a ton of damage in as short a space of time as possible, and then shedding either all of it (super Jump) or in desperate cases, half of it through high jump.

DRG also has access to a lot of -PDT gear and -MDT gear to help with damage mitigation. Seigan and third eye when outside VW or a perfect defense zerg, and can anticipate taking a large amount of damage and ready healing breath.

Only when all of these fail, or your mages run out of MP to cure, should you then thinking about stopping dealing damage at the fastest rate, and get completely out of AOE range. Hitting the mob more slowly is never the correct option.

[Hawklaser]

This isn't what he was saying at all though. He said he decides whether it's better to build for haste/store TP or whether it's better to gear to take less hate. DRG is great (the best job) at dealing a ton of damage in as short a space of time as possible, and then shedding either all of it (super Jump) or in desperate cases, half of it through high jump.

To me it looked like he was talking more about how he geared around the play style he enjoyed the best, or wanted to try out. I was commenting more about your comment of him gearing to do less damage than the tank.

But yeah, DRG has always been great at pushing that line of almost pulling hate, which is where a good DD player wants to be. Also Super Jump has more utility than just dumping hate, like avoiding high damage attacks moves that get telegraphed, though got to weigh the damage avoidance vs hate dump if things look like can go ugly. As usually better for a DD to go down instead of a healer if things go south.

And for some mobs, hitting them more slowly is indeed the best option at points. Just look at some of the NM's in Abyssea that will spam TP moves if you hit them at the wrong time. Also if have to put on defensive gear, you end up usually doing less damage too, which usually ends up with the same effect of the mob dying slower. This is more of just pointing out the "Hitting the mob more slowly is never the correct option" is wrong, mostly because of one word, never. As a good DD knows when they need to back off the mob either by equipping defensive options to help healers out, or just to avoid causing dangerous situations, and we have a great example of that in the chaos Spike Flail caused in certain fights.



Problem with lances having currently is more of how much to keep working for a R/M/E than saving up/farming for some of the new stuff. All really hinges on the future of R/M/E's really.

[Umichi]

This isn't what he was saying at all though. He said he decides whether it's better to build for haste/store TP or whether it's better to gear to take less hate. DRG is great (the best job) at dealing a ton of damage in as short a space of time as possible, and then shedding either all of it (super Jump) or in desperate cases, half of it through high jump.

DRG also has access to a lot of -PDT gear and -MDT gear to help with damage mitigation. Seigan and third eye when outside VW or a perfect defense zerg, and can anticipate taking a large amount of damage and ready healing breath.

Only when all of these fail, or your mages run out of MP to cure, should you then thinking about stopping dealing damage at the fastest rate, and get completely out of AOE range. Hitting the mob more slowly is never the correct option.

To clear up any confusion i was just giving an exaqmple of something i might think of it's not exactly how i play. And how is fighting until the monster turns on you a good idea in a scenario where (especially now with attack:def ratio adjustment) one solid mele hit could prolly connect and kill you.)

[detlef]

You better not make that Gungnir then, it'll probably make you do way too much damage and you will pull hate and die.

[Babekeke]

This is more of just pointing out the "Hitting the mob more slowly is never the correct option" is wrong, mostly because of one word, never.

OK, I take it back. Not never, just never unless you are tanking something that you really shouldn't be. A DD should never be hitting the mob slowly unless they are tanking and having to use full -DT gear. If there is someone else tanking, the DD should be either going all out, or be out of AOE range. For DRG in particular, this could mean run in, WS, soul jump, WS, spirit jump, WS get out of AOE range and wait for timers. But you should never be in AOE range unless you're doing as much damage as you can, or you're tanking


Problem with lances having currently is more of how much to keep working for a R/M/E than saving up/farming for some of the new stuff. All really hinges on the future of R/M/E's really.

Save gil now and decide when you have saved up enough to make a r/m/e whether you want to go through with it, or whether you want to buy a new crafted weapon.

[Umichi]

You better not make that Gungnir then, it'll probably make you do way too much damage and you will pull hate and die.

I'm pretty good at balancing out my damage and enmity, jumps help, and if all else fails I slow down to white hits and start aiming for high one hitters, which Gugnir is good at.

[Babekeke]

So, Back on topic of the title of the thread, what does everyone think about Ophidian Trident?

To me it seems kind of moot:

Though it has higher damage than any previously available polearm, it has considerably lower delay. Whilst this is nice for max DoT, it means less TP from Jumps, and therefore losing the ability to get 100% TP within the 3 seconds from the last WS with a single jump, or a jump and 1 swing to self-SC, or just to WS as fast.

Sure the jumps do more damage, the WS do more damage, the melee swings do more damage, but the additional stats on the polearm are worse than just about every other delve weapon. Maybe the acc for wyvern will become useful if they do eventually boost the wyvern's stats significantly so that it deals an amount of damage worth adding to the dragoon's for the sake of a parse.

Then there's the fact that without the absolute top gear, you're lumbered with a 7-hit.

Personally, I'm holding out for the fracture boss polearm.


Edit:
I just did some maths to see how often we can ws (under max haste) when jumps/meditate/sekkanoki are not up...

With a 492 delay weapon and 5-hit, 6.56 seconds. ((492/5)/60)*4. (R/M/E/FB)
With a 396 delay weapon and 6 hit, 6.6 seconds. ((396/5)/60)*5. (D)
With a 396 delay weapon and 7-hit, 7.92 seconds. ((396/5)/60)*6. (D)

To clarify the maths: Weapon Delay/5 gives 80% haste delay. /60 gives time in seconds per swing. *x gives the number of swings required between WS for total swinging time.

[Helldemon]

For people saying Relic = Empy. No, just no. Empy will never beat Relic. I would say the difference between the empy and the relic is even bigger then the difference between the mythic and the relic.

For one, the additional x2.5 proc on relic is always there at a 15% rate. The def down adding to every DD's damage. The 40 acc, if you need it. Geirskogul is a stronger single hit ws if you need it. You can't mention the aftermath on empy because Geirskogul is rarely used and that's far stronger then camlann's. All the empy is, is a high Damage polearm with no other effects.

[Umichi]

For people saying Relic = Empy. No, just no. Empy will never beat Relic. I would say the difference between the empy and the relic is even bigger then the difference between the mythic and the relic.

For one, the additional x2.5 proc on relic is always there at a 15% rate. The def down adding to every DD's damage. The 40 acc, if you need it. Geirskogul is a stronger single hit ws if you need it. You can't mention the aftermath on empy because Geirskogul is rarely used and that's far stronger then camlann's. All the empy is, is a high Damage polearm with no other effects.

hence the mentality all other weapons are useless compared to empy lance... but i disagree. I am building gugnir... It fits my build ^^

[Babekeke]

hence the mentality all other weapons are useless compared to empy lance... but i disagree. I am building gugnir... It fits my build ^^

Who has ever said that all weapons are useless compared to Empy Lance? Right now: Delve Boss weapon > Ryunohige > Delve Trident/Relic (not sure which would come out on top) > Empy, dead last. Heck, Herja's Fork probably beats Empy.

[Umichi]

Who has ever said that all weapons are useless compared to Empy Lance? Right now: Delve Boss weapon > Ryunohige > Delve Trident/Relic (not sure which would come out on top) > Empy, dead last. Heck, Herja's Fork probably beats Empy.

I'm still catching up with the times i came back right before audolins release, lol..., I was also slightly inebriated when i was typing this i meant mythic.

I think ophidian would win if fights went on longer, more hits equates to more damage, but ryu has some nice things like removing the 10% attack penalty on drakes and the jump augmentations are sweet

[Babekeke]

I think ophidian would win if fights went on longer, more hits equates to more damage, but ryu has some nice things like removing the 10% attack penalty on drakes and the jump augmentations are sweet

More hits = more damage is exactly why Ryu beats Ophidian lol. 300%TP aftermath is OA 2-3 times, meaning more swings overall, fewer attack rounds between WS, and more multiple hits on jumps for back-to-back WSing. Not to mention the higher delay = higher TP gain from jumps too with Ryu.

As for the jump augmentations, I'm not sure when I would ever use Jump over Spirit Jump, other than when under the effect of Spirit Surge, if it was timed to be just after Angon wore off.

[Umichi]

More hits = more damage is exactly why Ryu beats Ophidian lol. 300%TP aftermath is OA 2-3 times, meaning more swings overall, fewer attack rounds between WS, and more multiple hits on jumps for back-to-back WSing. Not to mention the higher delay = higher TP gain from jumps too with Ryu.

As for the jump augmentations, I'm not sure when I would ever use Jump over Spirit Jump, other than when under the effect of Spirit Surge, if it was timed to be just after Angon wore off.

there is gear out there that makes jump a powerful ability :)

[Umichi]

More hits = more damage is exactly why Ryu beats Ophidian lol. 300%TP aftermath is OA 2-3 times, meaning more swings overall, fewer attack rounds between WS, and more multiple hits on jumps for back-to-back WSing. Not to mention the higher delay = higher TP gain from jumps too with Ryu.

As for the jump augmentations, I'm not sure when I would ever use Jump over Spirit Jump, other than when under the effect of Spirit Surge, if it was timed to be just after Angon wore off.

but ophidian is faster and most drg's build on haste and DA already, not only that but ophidian hits for more damage and you can rank str, dex, and accuracy. Meaning higher base damages and crits with Drakesbane. IDK i haven't had much interaction with ryu drg's so idk how efficient damage output is.... However what you've stated is quite true, you sack the ranking up of the weapon in exchange you get OA 2-3 times is definately advantageous... however you still have to build up 300tp

[Hawklaser]

but ophidian is faster and most drg's build on haste and DA already, not only that but ophidian hits for more damage and you can rank str, dex, and accuracy. Meaning higher base damages and crits with Drakesbane. IDK i haven't had much interaction with ryu drg's so idk how efficient damage output is.... However what you've stated is quite true, you sack the ranking up of the weapon in exchange you get OA 2-3 times is definately advantageous... however you still have to build up 300tp

Though thanks to a combination of Spirit Link, Spirit Jump, and Soul Jump, DRG can build up TP very quickly, especially if things like DA decide to proc on a jump. And that is not even considering things like Regain sources or Meditate.

[Helldemon]

Ophidian is crap, would have been much much better off if they had given us a lance delay weapon with damage to match. Low ws damage, lower ws ratio and more tp feed to the monster. It only slightly edges out gungnir based on my experience which is quite sad and only on things like plasm farms. I believe anything you would need the extra acc from gungnir on would put it ahead.

[Babekeke]

however you still have to build up 300tp

Which is sooo easy to do on DRG, especially when /SAM. 20TP from previous WS; 60TP from Meditate; If you are paying attention, you build TP ready for just as Aftermath will wear off, so you still have aftermath active as you are building TP; Average (with decent DA/TA/QA gear and aftermath) 120TP from Soul Jump and 80 from Spirit Jump.

There's 280TP, needing just 1 regular swing to reach 300.

Remember that a QA proc on Soul Jump can give you 240 TP straight away lol.

[Babekeke]

Ophidian is crap, would have been much much better off if they had given us a lance delay weapon with damage to match. Low ws damage, lower ws ratio and more tp feed to the monster. It only slightly edges out gungnir based on my experience which is quite sad and only on things like plasm farms. I believe anything you would need the extra acc from gungnir on would put it ahead.

Just saw your bug report (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/35269-Ophidian-Trident). Great stuff!!!

Oh I did think of 1 way in which Ophidian IS (or at least will be) better than any RME... The proposed wyvern adjustments where the wyvern scales up with 'item level' of the weapon, as currently this will only apply to SoA weapons.

(though I haven't seen any further mention of it being implemented.) I take it back.

It just got implemented. Could be interesting as to what stats have been increased. If HP is 1 of the stats increased, and by any significant margin, using trident could end up better as a solo/low-man weapon for the extra HP cured from breaths. And another reason to get rid of Heavy Breathing merits.

[Helldemon]

The hp increase is about 100 or so. Might increase more with leveling the wyvern up. It just p*sses me off when I think about that weapon. I was fighting one of the new birds in Marjami Ravine and it was ping-ponging back and forth between me and my wyvern because this sh*tty spear couldn't even do enough damage, on a piercing weak mob no less!! What's more, war and drk get another GS and GA when they already have two great options lol and drg only has a weapon unobtainable by most.

Edit- Taken from someone on BG. This is with Upu though so 6 lvls higher then sh*t spear.

Ranth: 110~156 damage per hit for my wyvern on a Blanched Mandragora outside Adoulin. 1132 Flame Breath with deep breathing (and to my knowledge) all available breath damage/enhancing gear. 201~240 Critical Hits on the mandragora, it was only hit for about 30~35 damage from the mandragora and evaded a lot of its attacks. I don't think this is going to help enough in that it'll be a relevant source of damage anyways due to the breath damage reduction making wyvern breaths garbage anyways, but I guess it's better than nothing.

[Helldemon]

but ophidian is faster and most drg's build on haste and DA already, not only that but ophidian hits for more damage and you can rank str, dex, and accuracy. Meaning higher base damages and crits with Drakesbane. IDK i haven't had much interaction with ryu drg's so idk how efficient damage output is.... However what you've stated is quite true, you sack the ranking up of the weapon in exchange you get OA 2-3 times is definately advantageous... however you still have to build up 300tp

It's hard to hit the rank cap even on a weapon like gungnir, let alone things with higher base damage so the str rank point is moot. Yes haste and such is a focus of a drg but that is the same for all jobs. We also focus on x-hit which this spear ruins. A good drg /sam will have around a 60% ws damage to 40% normal hits/jumps damage. This spear also ruins our ws ratio and damage, along with jump damage.

[Ophannus]

Hope the craftable delve polearm isnt a spear.
(All weapons types will get a droppable mega weapon that's r/ex off a delve mega boss, and also a craftable weapon made with a delve boss synthesis material drop. So far the new delve bosses will probably drop a craftable for a high level polearm, a senbaak nagan/razor fury equivalent for polearm perhaps. The crazy thing is Senbaak Nagan and Razor Fury are already powerful in their own right and theyre not even the delve r/ex boss drops

[Helldemon]

Just love how they gave war and drk more weapons this update as if they needed them lol.

[Hawklaser]

Who has ever said that all weapons are useless compared to Empy Lance? Right now: Delve Boss weapon > Ryunohige > Delve Trident/Relic (not sure which would come out on top) > Empy, dead last. Heck, Herja's Fork probably beats Empy.

I find it rather interesting that Ryunohige ends up where it does, considering how most other RME fare against plasm weapons currently. I can see use for Emp in some situations though, but that is something that boils down more to Wheeling Thrust vs Camlann's Torment, and with the rumored possibility of having that weaponskill no longer needing the Emp Lance, that would likely be the last straw for Emp usefulness.

Yet to see what new weapons have shown up in this latest patch, anything of note for Drg?

[Umichi]

dude the new delve boss polearm totally whoops ryu.... the stats do not lie :)

[Babekeke]

dude the new delve boss polearm totally whoops ryu.... the stats do not lie :)

Who ever said it didn't?

[Umichi]

Who ever said it didn't?

aanother case of internets failing tone...... i agreed with you...

[Babekeke]

Lol ok, I thought you had maybe mis-read something I or another had written and were putting us right.

[Umichi]

Lol ok, I thought you had maybe mis-read something I or another had written and were putting us right.

It's understandable :) I apologize for the miscommunication :)