Player Notice: Naakual Loot System

[Prothscar]

Hello,

Just finished up the server first kill of Colkhab here on Valefor. Unfortunately, it's a bittersweet victory for myself and a few other people. Fight lasted about 4 hours from start to finish, it was pretty grueling, and near the end I just wanted it to be over with. Myself and my friend, both on heavy DDs with our own support via BRD and WHM, tended to stay on the NM while the PLDs tanked and whittled it down in between PD zergs (each ability reset would lead to a few PDs, at which time the remaining DDs charged into the fray).

Of course, this was pretty dangerous. From time to time we'd die, which was to be expected. I noticed that, each time we died, our contribution level reset to 0. Zilch. Nada. Despite the fact that we were contributing the entire time, every time we got killed by one of the NM's (overpowered) AoEs, we'd be right back at square one.

So we started waiting for PDs. The pace of the fight deteriorated, but it was safer for us. Eventually the NM was down to 30%, 20, 10. The final nail was about to be driven into the coffin. EXP and Bayld were flowing right into our pockets...

Then came the final push, one last offensive. We got PD, ran in, and ruined the bee's day. 5%, 4%, 3%, 2%... and finally, 1%. Things got messy here. Our last PD started to wear off, people started dying. Myself and my friend included. Before we could raise up and hit the bee again to reset our contribution counters... it was all over.

We got our crest and title, but we got no exp, bayld, or items. This was the same for everyone who died during that last push; anyone who remained alive received one piece of Naakual equipment and other miscellaneous loot, as well as exp and bayld as expected from any Reive. Those of us who died only got to watch as everyone else celebrated their new prizes. I'm obviously not sore at them over it, they certainly deserve them as much as anyone else, just recounting the experience.

So effectively, some of us wasted 100,000 bayld and the time it took to accrue it as well as about 4 hours of our evening to down the NM for nothing, simply because we died at the very end of the battle.

This system needs to be evaluated, Square Enix. By no means is it tolerable that your progress toward contributing to a fight like this should be wiped completely if you happen to die. Death against such powerful enemies is inevitable, especially when the fights last so long. I beseech you, look into a way for us to retain our progress and not be left out of getting our rewards just because we die right at the end of a four hour, high cost fight, and let this be a warning to anyone who wishes to attempt these fights in the future.

Thanks for reading.

[Zirael]

Wow.
I bet someone at SE thought it was a great idea to promote everyone doing a more "skillful play" instead of charge->zerg. :(
For the time being, I guess it's safer, and sloooowerrr, to put pets on the NM at 1-2% HP. Good old days of Puking Pandy come back.

[Kincard]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m22y1hHU7A1r8d2mio1_400.gif

please fix this se

[Calintzpso]

WTF


Fix this shit SE!

[Seha]

Bumpitybump.

[Jaall]

Even with proper strategy people will die. Just ridiculous that it resets but I doubt they'd put that in intentionally, just sort it out SE.

[Demon6324236]

Serious slightly offtopic question, does anyone have any idea why I have no like button for any posts? I want to like this thing but I have no button to press to like it... -_-

[Caketime]

Even with proper strategy people will die. Just ridiculous that it resets but I doubt they'd put that in intentionally, just sort it out SE.

You'd be wrong.

[Jaall]

You'd be wrong.

There's a lot SE would do but I dunno, this seems a bit too far. SE does seem to like killing off XI with bad choices though so I definitely wouldn't put it past them.

[Lemoncloak]

It really saddens me to hear that there is such an arbitrary flaw in the calculations for contribution during Reives.

Development team, PLEASE change this. Although I don't understand the complexity in calculation of reward systems in the game, I am leading a large group to fight this monster in the near future.

It's one thing to fear enemy attacks. It's one thing to fear dying and being unable to contribute to the fight.

HOWEVER, it's an entirely different feeling to fear that by dying, your contributions will be forgotten/discarded.

This oversight adds arbitrary complexity to what can already be a complex fight. Please find the time to ensure participants are able to get rewards regardless of death.

[Caketime]

There's a lot SE would do but I dunno, this seems a bit too far. SE does seem to like killing off XI with bad choices though so I definitely wouldn't put it past them.

Their idea of immersive gameplay is forcing players to repeat the same task ad nauseum, even for the most mundane things. I can understand the bottleneck philosophy for a massive undertaking like colonizing a wild land, but the artificial walls and systems of delay are layered thick through this entire expansion, what makes you think item loss during a boss encounter wasn't placed there on purpose? The fact that it's there guarantees mistakes will happen, and people will have to go all the way back to the start and work on another popset should they be the unlucky one to be floored at 1%.This will likely be called a mistake, but huge oversights like this are regularly occurring, which leads me to believe that it is intended.

[Cybermario]

even with skills and a very well planned run things can go wrong in a second, it is impossible not to die in a fight. The way this works is just lame and absurd and needs to be changed.

[hiko]

You'd be wrong.

nope, it's not dying that reset your reives evalution, it's raising:
when you die your evalution is stored,if you stay dead till reive you get your reward when raise, but if you raise before it end you reenter the reive = reset you eval and get nothing.

IMO people should post it in the bug report threads.

[Sleih]

"Working as intended."
Hopefully this isn't the case...

[Caketime]

nope, it's not dying that reset your reives evalution, it's raising:
when you die your evalution is stored,if you stay dead till reive you get your reward when raise, but if you raise before it end you reenter the reive = reset you eval and get nothing.

IMO people should post it in the bug report threads.

I'm pretty sure that having evaluations reset is intentional, the devs seem to be adjusting Reives based on complaints rather than their own data. Previously mages got nothing for support actions despite them being required in Reives, devs only changed that because of the huge amount of screaming in the first couple of days after release. This too will likely see adjustment but only after pages worth of hatemail is posted. You'd think the dev team would hire some game testers to make sure things are actually working instead of releasing broken/unfinished products and then dealing with the fallout in a half assed manner every time.

[Unctgtg]

SE's Response, this was working as intended, skilled players don't die. Please redo your strategy.

[Kintups]

Oh no! you can't zerg things down in 2 seconds anymore? THE HORROR! THE HORROR! WHATEVER SHALL WE DO?!

lol you idiot, you didnt even read the op did you?

[Alhanelem]

The only problems I saw with the OP is "PD." really? abilities reset and you can spam 1-hours? I thought they were trying to reduce this stuff? and "4 hours?" that's... too long.

[Jaall]

SE might have done it intentionally I never said they definitely didn't just saying it's kinda far for SE even being the way they are. The main problems they have are all because they haven't used their test server and just rushed the release to main servers without proper testing. So basically we all have really unfinished content and are acting as the testers. It's most of the reason I quit, I don't wanna play half a game and have to update and have things "fixed" every week until they finally solve everything which I don't see in the near future, it almost is like a job rather than a game. People get paid to do what every player is doing now but instead you're paying them for the privilege. If you ask me it's very cheeky of SE to do that.

[Asymptotic]

The only problems I saw with the OP is "PD." really? abilities reset and you can spam 1-hours? I thought they were trying to reduce this stuff? and "4 hours?" that's... too long.

It's been determined that the Naakuals take damage inversely proportional to the zone's colonization level, so they were fighting an enemy that took 25% of the damage they would normally have done to it.

But yeah, JAs randomly reset if you have the "Reive Unity" KI in any Reive.

[Kincard]

Guess it makes sense that the fight would take about an hour at maximum colonization I suppose, it sort-of fits with their philosophy that events should only take about 1-2 hours to do, even big endgame ones.

Of course, they also should've expected the gung-ho endgame players to say "screw it" to the whole thing and just power on through for 4 hours. Surprised the thing doesn't have a rage timer or something.

[Demon6324236]

It's been determined that the Naakuals take damage inversely proportional to the zone's colonization level, so they were fighting an enemy that took 25% of the damage they would normally have done to it.The main thing that disturbs me about this entire expansion is that it is playing out way to much like WotG, including the fact that it relies to much on players actively doing the content over a long period of time no matter what new is released, so if the content is ever not being done, like Campaign, then it will fall to far for a real recovery.

[Dew]

Yea this needs to be fixed. Doing all the work after buying the 100k KI and then dieing at the end and not getting anything sucks. Almost had this happen on the bee too. Died at 3% on whm mule and had to spam cures to get back enough points in the last 3% to get enough for drops.

[saevel]

Yes just SE and their usual c*ck blocking. They would rather everyone get jack squat for the next few months.

[Camiie]

Yes just SE and their usual c*ck blocking. They would rather everyone get jack squat for the next few months.

The basic stance of the devs for the majority of content since day one is now on a T-shirt:

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000251560/polls_tl_you_ll_get_nothing_and_like_it_shirt_1408_704009_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg

[Kojo]

The basic stance of the devs for the majority of content since day one is now on a T-shirt:

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000251560/polls_tl_you_ll_get_nothing_and_like_it_shirt_1408_704009_answer_2_xlarge.jpeg

Caddyshack reference, nice.

[Siiri]

Sounds like another reason to skip the new expansion for now. It's Saturday afternoon, 25 people in our social/event linkshell, and we got 1 person in the new areas. He is afk. LOL

[Asymptotic]

Maybe the system in place for this already is bugged or something

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32078748/ffxi_2013.04.13_17.17.10.png

This activated for me but it didn't activate for the other person in my party in a regular Reive

[Icefall]

I've received conflicting similar results from basic reives. Sometimes if I get up after it has ended, I get a reward still. Other times, I don't get anything. I've seen other players in my linkshell mention similar, so it seems there may be more to this problem. I'd post it on the bug forums, but I don't like reporting til I can get more repeatable results recorded.

[Obysuca]

so if the content is ever not being done, like Campaign, then it will fall to far for a real recovery.

That's how I'm seeing SoA going unless they add something to get people out of Jeuno :/ (See sig below) Eventually all the missions will come out, everyone will plow through them, get the gear they need from skirmish, then never touch it again, causing the colonization to drop and no one else being able to progress through it.


"4 hours?" that's... too long.

It probably wasn't 4 hours. You know how people exaggerate stuff lol It probably just felt that long

[Prothscar]

No, it was actually 4 hours. That's fast compared to some other servers

[Karbuncle]

Its designed as a Server-wide effort, Its basically what Pandemonium Warden was intended to be, except they've made it an instanced zone with individual rewards and not full retard with PW having only 1 drop pool.

(In regards to the time it takes to kill it)

[Asymptotic]

They probably didn't intend for people to kill it with 75% DT either.

[Luvbunny]

Its designed as a Server-wide effort, Its basically what Pandemonium Warden was intended to be, except they've made it an instanced zone with individual rewards and not full retard with PW having only 1 drop pool. (In regards to the time it takes to kill it)

Sweet - I can finally say goodbye to SoA, what a miserable expansion lol, sorry not being able to get to know you better, but between the craptacular Reives and these Pandemonium Warden V.2 - NO THANKS!! 4 hours battle, what the fck were they thinking.....

[Kojo]

Something tells me that Tohihroyu hasn't tried to and never will beat a Naakual, probably has a lv 90 Emp and thinks they are a hardcore gamer.

[Caketime]

What is hardcore anymore? Is basement dwelling still a requirement?

I liked the antagonistic post on the first page because it made me lol.

[Kojo]

I didn't 'like' it, I did lol but I was loling AT him, not WITH him.

[Caketime]

Same for me, it was from left field and had nothing to do with the OP subject at all. It's like picking a fight with your cat over a bouquet of flowers gifted to you in honor of your new apartment but you're pissed because you hate Petunias. The cat is the only one being abused here.

[Kojo]

It's like trying to make oatmeal cry.

[Kojo]

OP post still holds a point, though.

[Elphy]

I sometimes seriously wonder of anyone at the SE offices actually plays their own game.

With all the flaws this and other content seem to have that is easily noticable by anyone who plays for 5 minutes it would seem the devs are really thick for not seeing them too.

They need to get actual gamers on the dev team who actually give it a play through before they release it

[Caketime]

Indeed, OP is very relevant to my interests and is likely a large issue with most people right now. I wouldn't expect much serious discussion at this point since most things that needed to be stated have already been multiple times, but still, we're being rather awful at the moment.

[Kitkat]

It is interesting that SE adds a battle system that quantifies your efforts by rewarding how long you stay alive....yet gives the mob you have to fight extremely overpowered AOE (I thought they learned not to do this with VNM?) so that there is a higher probability of reaching the end and not getting diddley?

I would have to ask just how much bayld is accumilated over the course of this fight, weight in the overall reward rate (succession of fights where an individual lives entire time) to know drop rate, and then revisit if a reward reset system makes sense or not for these types of fights. It is already known that it is 100k bayld to even get in, but how much did participants regain over the 4~6 hours of the fight? Think over those things before you go completely rage-mode over it.

This doesn't mean I agree with it, but depending on overall drop rate with 100% life expectancy (or 50%+) over duration, this might actually make quite a bit of sense over all. I say at this point and time there is not enough player experience or data to accurately gauge this as good or bad. I mainly say this because a "zerg it all" mentality can negate difficulty..then again it is a 4-6 hour long fight (something I also thought SE learned not to do in the past).

[Kincard]

It doesn't matter what the drop rate is (It appears to be 100% chance to get one item from it as long as you are marked a participant). It's dumb to punish players that die because it encourages everyone to be timid about what kind of actions they take for fear of losing the chance at drops at the end of the fight. That isn't designing a monster well, that's just encouraging players to work against each other.

I've heard people getting about 20k Bayld over the course of the 4 hour fight, of course I doubt the intent was for people to fight these while they still had -75% DT.

[Kitkat]

Saying it doesn't matter is inaccurate as it goes into understanding the reason behind why the developers decided on the action. I don't see how this encourages players to work against each other either as it actually requires you to look into alternative options and strategy. Giving players a way to easily nullify difficulty is more detrimental to players working with one another than giving them a challenge to overcome.

I may not agree with a total reset, but having some form of impact on over all reward would go a long way to making players...I don't know...plan what they need to do? Not trying to be a troll, I'm putting legitimate thought into this. I do question taking extreme AoE damage (shouldn't have to worry about being 1 shot to the point of absurdity which happens often once a mob is under 30% HP), and I also question the length of the fight itself. Four to six hours to do a single fight seems extreme given the fact SE went out of their way years ago to make PW and AV down to two hour maximum length fights.

So there is a possiblity there might be a flaw in the system, or they set it up this way intentionally to see if players had the capacity to rethink their strategies for success. As I stated though, there is room for tweaks and changes as well considering how they have lead players to generally do fights over the last 6 years of development.

[Demon6324236]

Four to six hours to do a single fight seems extreme given the fact SE went out of their way years ago to make PW and AV down to two hour maximum length fights.Well if you look at it this way, according to what has been said in this thread it has a -DT effect equal to 100-ColRate, so when fighting it, it had roughly -75% DT. Now if it was at a 100%ColRate, it would have been taking 4 times the damage, meaning it would have taken 1 hour to kill roughly. If that is the case, we have a way to make these fights shorter, where as so far as I know PW and AV had no such thing, it was simply a bitch of a fight to kill them. Basically at 75% or higher ColRate we should be seeing around 2 hour fights, and that means it matches up with the old Superbosses of FFXI. Is the time taken still to long? I think so myself because this still depends on the server wide effort, which is a bad way to do it as shown by WotG, but if the rates are kept up well enough it could end up being ok.

[Doombringer]

concerning...

[Kincard]

I don't see how this encourages players to work against each other either as it actually requires you to look into alternative options and strategy.

Because making dying so impactive on your individual reward means that the only strategy everyone can agree on is one where nobody is in danger, which of course makes no sense.


I may not agree with a total reset, but having some form of impact on over all reward would go a long way to making players...I don't know...plan what they need to do?

I would rather have the monster actually be designed in a way so that these strategies are considered rather than them forcing it a certain way because of the way the reward system works. This isn't about making the game easy or hard, it's about the reward system being retarded.

It's the difference between:
A) Making a monster take -90% DT unless you magic burst and
B) Making a monster take -90% DT to pretty much everything but all BLMs get no reward if you don't constantly magic burst it

One is a monster designed in a way to encourage players to play a certain way. The other is just laziness.

If they want people to fight it at a certain pace and easy way to do it is do exactly what they did with Cerberus Seether and have it build up DT, except make it based on how rapidly it's taking damage and make the DT disperse over time. For bonus points make the higher DT give it STP+100 or whatever. That's a way to make people think, "okay, zerging is a really dumb idea".

[Nephilipitou]

I can imagine a combination where people have SMN, NIN and Bard and they zerg the heck out of it, keeping Migawari up and Sherzo at all times, keeping marches up maybe Minne if it would have a decent effect. Then again this is all hypothetical. Do not blame me if you run in with Hymnus, Sherzo, Migawari, March x2, rotate bards in for Mambo, Minne, or Minuet and NM 1 shots everyone twice. I have no idea how hard those AoE hit so just don't blame me if you take my advice as anything more than theoretical ramblings of a random Jack-of-All trades....master of... don't judge me.

[Kincard]

Well that's just the thing. Most of the people that were fighting these things WERE rotating earthen armor/scherzo, they ended up doing PD rotations because of how ridiculously easily they were dying even with both those things up.

Migawari would work if more than a single job had it, it didn't have such a long recast, and if Ninja was actually a useful job in any way.

[Asymptotic]

It's also possible they receive a boost to damage dealt when colonization level is low, and/or that they get stronger the more adds that are out or something (See: Grannus and its 500HP Regen and mega blaze spikes when all of the adds are out).

I haven't really talked to Prothescar about how the group was handling the fight. The reason I mention Grannus is because it seems like a lot of things in Meeble Burrows were sort of "beta tests" or appropriations of mechanics they were working on in Adoulin.

[Kitkat]

I would rather have the monster actually be designed in a way so that these strategies are considered rather than them forcing it a certain way because of the way the reward system works. This isn't about making the game easy or hard, it's about the reward system being retarded.

It's the difference between:
A) Making a monster take -90% DT unless you magic burst and
B) Making a monster take -90% DT to pretty much everything but all BLMs get no reward if you don't constantly magic burst it

One is a monster designed in a way to encourage players to play a certain way. The other is just laziness.

If they want people to fight it at a certain pace and easy way to do it is do exactly what they did with Cerberus Seether and have it build up DT, except make it based on how rapidly it's taking damage and make the DT disperse over time. For bonus points make the higher DT give it STP+100 or whatever. That's a way to make people think, "okay, zerging is a really dumb idea".

That is one way to make people think that way, yes, but as also stated prior this is a fight based on colonization efforts meaning it is a server wide effort to make the fight easier. Based on the fact that the content hasn't been out long enough to see how big of a difference there is with higher colonization rates can you fully appreciate the fight? Can you say that after 2 weeks there is enough information about a fight, that has only been done a handful of times with low colonization rates has been evaluated enough?

I don't see OP's warning as a significant flaw so much as a heads up to those who have yet to do it that you can't approach the fight with the wrong mind set. I also see the OP giving a good deal of information that prepares groups with enough know how that until either SE verifies this as working as intended, or is actually a flaw, that taking a steady pace is preferable to doing it with impatience. It is quite possible that stored evaluations aren't working properly in reives as I've seen even in the open world ones that it doesn't always activate.

It is interesting that so many will focus on the one detail so heavily rather than seek more information or see just how much of an impact over all various Ionis/Colonization efforts change the battle. Aside from this how much information is there about the fight? Types of attacks, effects of the attacks, resist rates of enfeeble or stuns? I've been looking for that information and I'm still not finding enough of it to get the full picture. I'm mainly just seeing people saying how stupid one thing is about it: the reward issuance....per the usual.

[Prothscar]

If you want more information then here you go:

-Resisted Paralyze/Slow/Elegy but landed after several attempts
-Did not resist stun from a BRD/BLM
-Possesses many AoE attacks, the ones that I remember the most were:

Vespine Hurricane: Conal AoE damage in the realm of 500~750.
Stinger Volley: Wide conal AoE that added a 50/tic poison on top of 500~750 damage to all who were hit by it.
Droning Whirlwind: Heavy AoE damage in the realm of 750~1250.
Mandibular Lashing: Conal AoE damage that significantly reduced maximum HP (down to 5%), reduced by PDT.

It had several regular melee attacks that were AoE as well, making its TP moves much more dangerous. With a few people on it, it spammed TP moves incessantly, as with any other monster. Effectively it's a slow and steady type of fight, but the risk is never completely alleviated. All it takes is one TP move followed by one of its melee attacks (some of which hit me for over 800 damage, and I was wearing a hybrid PDT set almost the entire time that I was engaged on the monster) to knock you out.

This what I assume to be glitch with the reward system needs to be looked at and people need to know about it, which is the entire point of my post. I don't want people wasting their Bayld and hours of their lives fighting these NMs only to not be rewarded due to a failure in the loot system. If you have a problem with that, by all means you're entitled to that opinion. Personally I find no issues with the pace or the balance of the fight itself, only the poor implementation of how rewards are distributed when you die, possibly due to a bug.

[Kitkat]

If you want more information then here you go:

.......

This what I assume to be glitch with the reward system needs to be looked at and people need to know about it, which is the entire point of my post. I don't want people wasting their Bayld and hours of their lives fighting these NMs only to not be rewarded due to a failure in the loot system. If you have a problem with that, by all means you're entitled to that opinion. Personally I find no issues with the pace or the balance of the fight itself, only the poor implementation of how rewards are distributed when you die, possibly due to a bug.

Yes, that does help considerably as I've been looking at various resources that haven't updated the mob or any info associated to it as of yet. To clarify I wasn't nullifying the possibility of it being a bug, more so to address the fact people are focusing too much on the drop reward (a reoccurring theme in any newer content as of late) rather than reasons why SE would do such a thing intentionally. Remember, these are the same people constantly on the "give and take away" theme all for the sake of "balance."

I wouldn't be surprised if a rep pops in and says that ever so aggravating phrase "Working as intended" or other nonsense that they didn't intend for the fights to be done often at low colonization rates. It has already been stated that the decrease in colonization rate beyond 25% has been found to be too high and is planned for adjustment. Given that the fight can be made easier as it goes up I am still skeptical and my glass will remain half empty until it is confirmed as a system bug. Seen too many flip-flops with how SE does things over the last decade to be anything but pessimistic and that this was done intentionally.

Edit: For sake of tag search reason I've updated tags for 'bug?' and 'wildskeeper reive'

[Horadrim]

Sounds more like people need to invest in coming up with some real strategies that don't involve pouring heavy DD's in and hoping for the best...

I don't think the solution to every problem is "change this completely to suit my liking!"

Sounds like they've realized that EXP loss isn't an acceptable punishment for Death anymore -- I think reducing your rewards based on your number of deaths makes sense, though I think resetting to 0 might be a bit harsh. (Reducing contributions to 50% upon death, maybe.)

The bigger problem sounds it comes from the way SE is balancing these fights. There's no reason a mob with AoE auto attacks should spam TP moves and frankly I'm tired of their answer to difficulty in a fight being "MAKE IT SPAM AOE, LULZ."

If they want people to use strategies other than zerg, they need to make monsters that are difficult by legitimate standards rather than abusing the aged, faultiness of the game's system (damage absorption/2hr activation tied to TP moves you barely have any warning or real ability to avoid triggering because of the system's slowness) and mass draining healer MP (TP spam and AoE whoring.)

Additionally, AoE's should not deal 100% damage to all targets. If a mob is going to spam AoE moves, they should deal maximum damage only to the primary target and all secondary targets should receive less damage (in the case of abilities, not spells.)

I'm not really liking the sound of this, but I think my displeasure has less to do with the punishment and more the fact that the game's system promotes and endorses the crime (semi-reckless zerg tactics) in question. Plus, it sounds like you guys were being decently cautious, so that annoys me more that they aren't even trying to reward people putting thought in.

EDIT:

Pardon if my post reads terrible. :/ Spent all weekend grinding gear (wtf at the 6 hours it took me to get COR feet... especially considering it took less time to get 8/8+6/6 for +2...) -- I basically went from camping to build my Empy weapon to driving to work with 0 sleep.

Basically i was trying to say:
1. I think the negative reward system is a good idea, but think it shouldn't be a constant reset. It either needs to be a reduction system (each death reduces by 25-50% contribution that you can regain) or it needs to be a Monster Hunter style "life" system and your reward is capped based on your number of deaths (100% for 0 deaths, 80% for 1 death, etc etc etc, until 15% minimum for 5-6 deaths or 0% for an excessive number.)

2. SE needs to re-evaluate how they promote strategic thought in fights. Monsters should not be designed to deal thousands of points (in excess of 3,000-4,000 damage across a party, or 6,000+ to an alliance) such that it forces the rapid spamming of cures in a fashion the game's system won't even allow. Difficulty should come from having to learn the nuances of a fight, not from twitch mechanics and spamming. TP Spam and AoE whoring are two "difficulty boosters" SE needs to move away from if they want to cull the Zerg climate.

3. A 3+ hour fight sounds good to me, but it should be something that's actually engaging, challenging in an interesting and honest way and doesn't needlessly punishing people for trial and error such that they end up walking away with absolutely nothing for their efforts.

I really do believe that the Monster TP system needs to be evaluated -- Subtle Blow seems like an absolutely useless stat, especially when they have changed the climate of the game's damage to focus so much on multi-hits.

[Kincard]

Last I checked, games were self-regulating in punishing you for sucking by virtue of the fact that if you lose, you don't get to fight it anymore. That is, if your party wipes, you get a game over and you have to start from your last save. What's happening here is basically the equivalent of you automatically getting a game over whenever you let Tellah die because his HP is awful and he dies to everything. Well okay, more like if you let Tellah die during the bosses' "not before I die asshole" attacks I guess?

If they want it to be punishing to people for playing poorly, just make your progress reset if it goes idle or whatever. Death of a few members is inevitable in big fights like this and it makes zero sense to limit player strategizing in a way like this.

Also, punishing individuals for dying just doesn't make sense, because certain jobs will be in danger more often than others, so death is a bad measurement by which to measure whether the group, as a whole, is doing well or not- there's been plenty of strategies in the past that involved people sacrificing themselves/kiting/etc. The way it currently works is that you could actually have a perfect run for 99% of the fight and then not get any drops because you got killed in the last rush of its HP. I find it hard to believe that this is anything other than a bug/oversight.

That isn't to say you can't punish people for dying/taking too long- after all, lots of other games do this through a ranking system (S/A/B...) that goes down whenever someone dies. The question is what should that affect? They did this to some extent in assault, like if you didn't save every hostage you wouldn't get full points and such. Nobody really complained about that.

[Karbuncle]

Sounds more like people need to invest in coming up with some real strategies that don't involve pouring heavy DD's in and hoping for the best...

I deeply agree, but, On a fight like this, as you mentioned in your post... Sh*ts AoE happy (Something i distinctly remember SE saying they "Toned down" on... nice), AoE's do redic damage, and they're still riding that "HNM Normal Hits = TP moves/Possible AoE/Added Effects" wagon that was introduced with Iron Giants...


The bigger problem sounds it comes from the way SE is balancing these fights. There's no reason a mob with AoE auto attacks should spam TP moves and frankly I'm tired of their answer to difficulty in a fight being "MAKE IT SPAM AOE, LULZ."

I really wish this would die TBH, now they've given normal enemies this effect... This is just heinously annoying... (I.E Matamata/Normal Mantis).


If they want people to use strategies other than zerg, they need to make monsters that are difficult by legitimate standards rather than abusing the aged, faultiness of the game's system (damage absorption/2hr activation tied to TP moves you barely have any warning or real ability to avoid triggering because of the system's slowness) and mass draining healer MP (TP spam and AoE whoring.)

I agree, its increasingly difficult to make truly challenging content though with the current out-dated mechanics of this game. I know they can have "Colision Damage", Ixion does it, They could make more enemies similar to Ixion... a Straight forward fight, Has its quirks, Difficult but possible to avoid damage, and less rediculous "2,000+ DMG AOE +800HP/tic BIO/Stun/Curse/ST20" that they're throwing on everything as "Challenge".

I like these NMs, and Reives, cause honestly, its making PLD more shiny and wanted... but when you design a NM to be a server-wide event, What do you expect... 1 Tank and 49 DD/healers/Support? Sh*t just doesn't work. These fights are a flaw in design mostly because you can't co-ordinate 40-50 People into a coherent pattern/strategy, especially with all the adds flying around.

I love the idea of the fight, Its just... SE may have overestimated peoples ability to listen, learn, and not be retarded lol.


Additionally, AoE's should not deal 100% damage to all targets. If a mob is going to spam AoE moves, they should deal maximum damage only to the primary target and all secondary targets should receive less damage (in the case of abilities, not spells.)

They supposedly did this around the time Botulus/Ig-Alima were introduced, Though I call BS cause I can't tell any difference, Mantis/etc Hit me for up to 400 damage a pop rather its direct or splash damage... Then again, this could have specifically applied to only those two (Bot/Ig)... I think Normal Attack "AoE" damage should be 100% on main, 30-40% On all others... TP moves are dangerous enough without it murdering everyone in range by using a normal attack.

I do really really really want this "ZERG ALL THE THINGS" mindset FFXI has to stfu and die, but SE doesn't realize the more they push 80,000 DMG AoEs down our throat, the more "ZERG" wins, because no ones going to sit and wait for this thing to spit out TP move after TP move after TP move with 1 PLD while 2-3 DD run in and SA WS or Chi Blast when they can just PD/Full Buff/Zerg it and likely still win.

Honestly, These are just some small suggestions i have for SE when it comes to challenging fights.

1) Make AoE's crippling, But not killing - Inflict Dispel/Amnesia/Slow/Paralyze/Terror, but limit the DMG by these to about 300-400. People might think this is annoying, and it will be if you're zerging it... But if SE wants to limit Zerg mindset, You need to inflict these abilities more and less "Game Over.button" AoEs.

2) Expand the "Super" effects. (Mute, Etc). Add "Stop", a Super slow thats uneraseable and inflicts a near-Weakened status slow effect. (Make a limit on its duration, ~30 seconds). This should not effect Magic recast timers (so it wont also super-nerf the PLD Tank, which is who you /want/ tanking). I would also suggest a "Cripple", a Super-Paralyze thats un-paralyna-able, Duration ~30sec same as the Stop... Make it near ~80% Paralyze. For this.
*Bonus to this. These effects could only effect enemies that are not the Current target, Inflicting the Current Target, instead, with a Normal Slow/Paralyze. I know the ability to distinguish between targets and non-targets is possible...

3) Add things like Odin's Zantes/Ultima's Countdown. If the NMs all had a "Super move" they could use, but people could avoid... it'd be more strategic than "ROLL THE DICE, 6? 4,000 DMG AND DOOM FOR EVERYONE STILL ALIVE!". Odin and Ultima had these super moves, but people could learn to avoid them... This is strategy, and it works. but spice it up. In FFXIV, you have things in the arena that can be used in battle... Fire on the ground, Garuda's Pillars, so on.

4) Add Things in the battle to weaken the boss. IDK if the Wildskeeper Reives do this, But Perhaps instead of just enemies, there could be targets around the enemy that will weaken them in different ways, Kinda like CoP-Dynamis Bosses. Think with Colkhaab...

There's 4 Nests around her, Destroying a Nest will reduce her power in some way.

Nest A = Lowered Attack + Terror on Colkhaab for ~8 sec
Nests B = Lowered Defense + Terror for ~8 sec
nest C = Lowered Magic Attack + Terror ~8 sec
Nest D = Lowered M.def + Terror ~8 sec

They can respawn every 3-5 minutes, each one nerfs the boss, and Terrors for a short duration (not super long and they arent' constantly up so it wont be a VW/Zerg situation). A 5 Second terror will give DD's enough time to run in SA > WS and get out, this could give a "Window" of damage for the DD, while the Tank keeps hate the rest of the fight, and the DD go back to defeating the Nests for their window of damage.

This would give a PLD a strong reason to be a main tank, they are fare less likely to get floored, and the DD Can all team up on a Nest, then run in WS the boss and go back to the nests, with the terror they dont have to be afraid of DMG, and you still need someone on the NM, this will make the fight easier, and a bit more involved, and lower the risk of death all around.

You could also make it so killing the enemies in the Arena will occasionally temporarily weaken the boss. For instance

5% Chance to Terror for ~5 Seconds.
10% Chance to Slow(50%) for ~1minute (Unique effect that Stacks with other forms)
10% Chance to Paralyze (25%~30%) for ~1minute.
10% Chance to Gravity (II potency) for ~1minute

This could be accompanied by a "The (monster) has been afflicted with (Ailment", This gives players a stronger reason to kill the adds rather than sleep them. The Enemies in the battlefield could also drop "Spirit Pyre", which could give each person in the battlefield a Temp item, like

Lucid Potion I~III
Lucid Ether I~III
Dragon Fruit Au Lait
Scroll of Instant Stoneskin/Reraise
Dusty Elixir
Lucid Elixir
Lucid Wings I
Dusty Wing
Stalwarts Tonic
Ascetic's Tonic
Champions Tonic
Braver's Drink
Fanatic's/fools Tonic (not drink)

Now, the Spirit Pyre would say, have a ~5-10% chance to spawn, and give everyone just 1 Random temp item, again, to prevent the more or less "ZERG IT" mindset of VW, which i think was still a good idea, and Temp Items are really helpful, but by not giving us a near unlimited supply, they retain a more tactical use rather than a "CHUG EM ALL" use they have in VW or Abyssea.

Lastely, I think in additional to adding more "Cripple but not kill" AoEs, ST20, Doom, and Death should be flat out removed from most/all TP Moves in the new zones. These aren't strategic and are just cheap/Kill-buttons.

ST20 Is just Bullsh*t as its pretty much instant-death for even a PLD if it lasts more than 10 seconds, Doom is annoying, but acceptable i suppose, Death can suck it >_>, Nothing is more cheap and uncreative than a "I win" button.

[Asymptotic]

Sounds more like people need to invest in coming up with some real strategies that don't involve pouring heavy DD's in and hoping for the best...

We did figure out an alternate strategy that's pretty easy albeit time consuming!

[Luvbunny]

A three hours battle should not be the trend for this game.... 30-60 mnts type of events are more than plenty and it should be the norm. Are they seriously asking for another negative coverage on this game - after that godawful fiasco that is Pandemonium Warden?

[Horadrim]

We did figure out an alternate strategy that's pretty easy albeit time consuming!

Yeah, and I don't think that's fair to you guys.

I think the game should be designed where good strategy is efficient at reducing difficulty and increasing speed without having to be all about spamming the highest damage possible. Procs were an interesting way of moving towards this, but SE's methodology behind it was cartoonish at best.

Al'tiaeu mobs are what I think of for clever, interesting methods of adding diverse, challenging and interesting mobs. (The mouth guys, forget their names.)

To me, a complex and interesting boss fight should incorporate all of what SE as had so far in game, here's an example of what I'd want a fight to be like.

Mob Type: Gigas (for the example, we'll call him Gigas Rex, 2x the size of the average Gigas)

HP: 1,000,000 / 100,000 x4 / 50,000 x2 (explained below)
Job: Warrior / Monk / Geomancer / Dragoon

The Fight starts off with Gigas Rex in full body armor (-70% PDT) and wielding two Great Axes. During this phase his auto attacks (Delay around 400, each arm swings independently) deal conal AoE damage (180 degrees, each arm being 90) and he can attack two different targets. Two Tanks are required to keep him from using "Gigas Boomerang" with which ever arm isn't being tanked (heavy AoE damage based on a target's distance = Farther is more damage.)

During this phase, your goal is to destroy his axes and eat away at his armor. Physical stuns (Weapon Bash, Shield Bash, DNC's stun, Shoulder Tackle, etc) and Crits have high chance to chip the weapon, each chip reduces the -PDT the weapons have and once you deal 10,000 to an arm he stops attacking with it for this phase. He can be damaged himself the entire fight but his armor gives him heavy -PDT. Ranged attacks, DRG jumps or NIN and THF auto attacks/ws from behind deal damage directly to his armor (goal is 50,000. AA's and WS can only deal damage to lower body armor, ranged and jumps deal damage to upper body armor.)

His TP moves are all on timers like JAs and begin counting down when you enter the fight:

3 minutes - King's Cleave (180 AoE damage based on the health of the Axes. Can do up towards 3,000 damage if the axes are unchipped, each chip greatly lowers damage and the move suffers specifically against Defense Bonus and Magic Defense Bonus traits.)
5 Min - Counter-Regicide (All targets beyond
8 Min - King's Guard Summon (Summons 4 Goblin Kingsmiths who begin repairing his armor. They do not attack unless their respective section of armor is 100% HP or they are attacked first.)
10 Min - Tyrannical Howl (Regens 100,000 HP over 30 seconds. Can be countered by Dia III, Bio III, or Helix effects.)

Once both axes are destroyed he switches to Monk mode. He focuses his attention on one target, but can still attack any target within range randomly. Hate only matters for his TP moves as he will swipe and punch at any target in melee range. He suffers from increased magic damage during this phase, but begins to cast GEO buffs and debuffs at 200% potency.

New TP moves:

5 Minutes: The Prince's Favorite Toy, summons a large Automaton that behaves similarly to Ob. Susceptible to additional damage from Pets, but PUP Maneuvers have specific DoT/Debuff effects. Only uses this once.
8 Min - King's Guard Summon (See above)
Triggered ability: If he receives heavy magic based damage and still has armor, he will use "Call to Arms" summoning 2 Gigas Marksmen and 2 Gigas Cavalry. These mobs will immediately begin targeting targets outside of the NM's melee range. Cavalry suffer additional damage from Ranged Attacks. Marksmen suffer additional damage from melee attacks.
Triggered ability: Snarling Grapple -- If the NM's enmity shifts too quickly between multiple targets he will use a free arm to pick up one of the last main enmity holder. While grappled the character cannot be targeted and suffers 30/tic dot and cannot attack actions. Characters can be freed if he NM receives heavy piercing damage from behind (if his lower body armor is broken), but otherwise will preform a follow up ability.
---------- King's Crush: Grappled target is slammed into the ground, reducing their health to critical and stunned for 1 minute. Character can be targeted by allies, but not the NM until the stun wears of. All gear is stripped off of the character. They are still susceptible to AoE attacks or GEO DoT if not healed quickly.

Final Form: When all body armor is destroy and all adds are defeated, the NM begins to rage. Increasing his attack speed and attack power. He becomes immune to damage during his attacks and begins using Dragoon Jump abilities (with regular player cool downs.) He can only take damage to his head -- which is achieved by Ranged attacks, DRG jumps, or by stunning him as he begins to ready a Jump -- it may take up to 3 physical stuns to achieve this. When properly stunned, he falls forward for 1 minute and takes regular damage.

During this mode he will recycle his Grapple and summon abilities in the same way as above. At 1% life he has a 10% chance to stop receiving damage and disengage if the primary enmity holder is a Paladin or Warrior. He will use "King's Final Challenge", forcing everyone to disengage and drawing a greatsword. If the challenged character engages the NM will fight normally -- only the challenged character can engage or the challenge is forfeited and the bonus drops potentially gained are lost (nothing else is lost, but there would be some kind of rare G.Sword or craft material or something.) If any other character casts on the Challenged character or the NM, or the challenged character dies, he plunges the sword into the ground and continues to fight as normal until he dies.


Yeah, kind of out there, but I feel like stuff like that is actually well within the capacity of the game's system. They are just super lazy about adding in stuff. Something like this, you could add bonus drops for having all of the right jobs and doing everything properly -- making it fun and interesting and something that anyone could come and do on any job.

[Horadrim]

A three hours battle should not be the trend for this game.... 30-60 mnts type of events are more than plenty and it should be the norm. Are they seriously asking for another negative coverage on this game - after that godawful fiasco that is Pandemonium Warden?

They are trying to move back to longer, harder fights because people weren't taking the shift to short ones very well.

[Asymptotic]

I think the game should be designed where good strategy is efficient at reducing difficulty and increasing speed without having to be all about spamming the highest damage possible.

I'm not talking about the Colkhab kill, trust me, Achuka did not go down by spamming high damage skills looool.

That aside, shenanigans should not be necessary after colonization rate is capable of going past 25%.

[Luvbunny]

They are trying to move back to longer, harder fights because people weren't taking the shift to short ones very well.

What are you talking about, people are busy with the short fight and clamoring for more. This is why it is so hard to get Voidwatch cities done because with all the running around and waiting, it can take 3-4 hours. Players detest the long activities where they have to commit more than 2 hours.

And this is why Abyssea is not dead, not even after the expansion, and you cannot get rid of people from Abyssea areas.... Do you see them doing Pandemonium Warden over and over? The trend is for more casual - small groups - solo type of content. I know a lot of my friends really enjoy Meeble Burrows for the short and fast pace activities.

But if they insist to bring back 4 hours battle with 100k bayld entrance - 6 hours whack logs over and over, it's fine by me - they won't see any cents of my money. And I don't think I am alone on this. Look, I know why they are doing this - FF14 is about to launch, and they need to move people to try that other game. Which sadly - I won't even bother anymore, not after this craptacular attitude from SE.

[Asymptotic]

I don't know why it keeps having to be repeated but that one particular fight took 4 hours with low Colonization rate meaning the NM took a small fraction of normal damage (and potentially dealt more damage but we won't find that out til the end of the month)

It's unlikely that SE intended for us to fight them with such low Colonization rate since they expected the rate to rise faster

[Demon6324236]

What are you talking about, people are busy with the short fight and clamoring for more. This is why it is so hard to get Voidwatch cities done because with all the running around and waiting, it can take 3-4 hours. Players detest the long activities where they have to commit more than 2 hours.This is the problem, the running around and waiting for hours. If people were in a battle for a hour or two and it was not because of BS tactics used by enemies that wipe you every 5 minutes, I doubt most people would have a problem, but when a battle is drawn out because of stupidly designed monsters or they spend more time moving than fighting, people are simply bored, annoyed, or pissed off by the game, and thus, the problem is created.

[Cybermario]

FF14 is about to launch, and they need to move people to try that other game. As i have been telling friends, Adoulin is XIV in a nutshell... waypoints are the shards from XIV, reives are a sort of retrofit fates (because XI architecture is old it works like mini campaigns). No matter how you look at it, Adoulin is not bringing anything new or attractive to the game, all devs did was taking ideas from XIV trying to make people like how that game works.

[Horadrim]

What are you talking about, people are busy with the short fight and clamoring for more. This is why it is so hard to get Voidwatch cities done because with all the running around and waiting, it can take 3-4 hours. Players detest the long activities where they have to commit more than 2 hours.

And this is why Abyssea is not dead, not even after the expansion, and you cannot get rid of people from Abyssea areas.... Do you see them doing Pandemonium Warden over and over? The trend is for more casual - small groups - solo type of content. I know a lot of my friends really enjoy Meeble Burrows for the short and fast pace activities.

But if they insist to bring back 4 hours battle with 100k bayld entrance - 6 hours whack logs over and over, it's fine by me - they won't see any cents of my money. And I don't think I am alone on this. Look, I know why they are doing this - FF14 is about to launch, and they need to move people to try that other game. Which sadly - I won't even bother anymore, not after this craptacular attitude from SE.

Adoulin is full of things that are a bit more involved and "difficult" than some of their more recent advancements were. In their attempt to counter Zerg tactics they are moving slightly backwards into older style of doing things, with a higher focus on cheapness.


As i have been telling friends, Adoulin is XIV in a nutshell... waypoints are the shards from XIV, reives are a sort of retrofit fates (because XI architecture is old it works like mini campaigns). No matter how you look at it, Adoulin is not bringing anything new or attractive to the game, all devs did was taking ideas from XIV trying to make people like how that game works.

I think it is a bit silly to try and say everything about Adoulin is them shoehorning in FFXIV ideas. I don't see any problem with them bringing over decent ideas from the new game, though.

[Asymptotic]

JPs seemed to take Achuka down today in about 2.5 hours at 20% colonization rate, so the fight should last less than an hour when it finally manages to cap and they're not just throwing Corsairs at it.

[Horadrim]

JPs seemed to take Achuka down today in about 2.5 hours at 20% colonization rate, so the fight should last less than an hour when it finally manages to cap and they're not just throwing Corsairs at it.

Read: Being less Japanese?

:P Silly jokes aside, that's not bad... So the mobs ARE boosted by low colonization rate?

[Asymptotic]

Read: Being less Japanese?

:P Silly jokes aside, that's not bad... So the mobs ARE boosted by low colonization rate?

We've essenially known that for a while, but they confirmed it in a JP dev post yesterday. I don't know if it was translated or not.

[Horadrim]

We've essenially known that for a while, but they confirmed it in a JP dev post yesterday. I don't know if it was translated or not.

Definitely good to know.

[Crusader81]

For the record SoA isn't like XIV, because XIV is fun and balanced.
SoA is either stupid easy or stupid hard with no middle ground. People hated Abyssea? At least it was fun, at least when I signed on my whole LS would be on playing, now it's a ghost town since a week after SoA, everyone I've talked to says its just not fun to play ATM either hard or boring

[Asymptotic]

I fail to see what aspect of SoA is hard

[Demon6324236]

I fail to see what aspect of SoA is hardPlaying with other people in an intelligent way.

[Fermion]

For the record SoA isn't like XIV, because XIV is fun and balanced.
SoA is either stupid easy or stupid hard with no middle ground. People hated Abyssea? At least it was fun, at least when I signed on my whole LS would be on playing, now it's a ghost town since a week after SoA, everyone I've talked to says its just not fun to play ATM either hard or boring

What do you think is so hard? You just need to adjust to the fact that it's not all about steamrolling EP mobs anymore. Isn't it a good thing that all this shiny gear we have actually serves a tactical purpose, instead of having insta-capped stats on damn near everything? Without challenging content to use it on, gear upgrades are pretty much pointless.

I think the difficulty is right where it needs to be at the moment. It's enough to be a shock to Abyssea only players (and hopefully make them rethink their strategies and gear choices, instead of throwing their hands up and quitting), but easily handled by any veteran player. I hope it gets progressively more and more difficult as upcoming content is released.

[Luvbunny]

You guys seems forgetting Wings of the Goddess, you know, the last expansion with similar ideas. The one where almost 95% of the areas are abandoned and beast men running wild controlling the majority of the areas and nothing can be done and progress stalled forever. Even Walk of Echoes is deader than a door nail... Stop defending SE, be critical, or this expansion will suffer the same fate as its older brethren and will be forgotten within a year or so. Right now it's pretty bad, boring, and just no fun. Grinding is the name of the game, but there is a fun grind (aka Abyssea) and there is Reives....

[Fermion]

WotG died because besides the moonshade earring, and rose strap (for some specific SAM builds), I can't think of any other significant gear it offered.

If Walk of Echoes suddenly had the chance to drop skirmish weapons, it would be spammed to death. Players follow gear. Which is the main reason I believe SE made the skirmish weapons so powerful. That along with the new gear sets, makes me believe we've just seen the tip of the iceberg.

I think the problem is that they've really backed themselves into a corner with gear and weapons. Lots of MMOs have gear and weapons that go up to +12 or so. The casual players usually get to around +3, semi to hardcore make up the bulk of the playerbase at around the +4 to +9 range. Only the best of the best will ever see the +10 and above levels (the epic glowing armor and wepons). I think ffxi could use a system similar (marrows was a fail attempt) when it comes to upgrades, instead of the "you have it or you don't" paradigm. The beauty is that by simply having different upgrades drop from different events is a way to keep all events alive.

But I do have to give SE credit. For a strictly PvE game, I am amazed that it's had such a long run. I can't put my finger on it, but they're doing something right. I've played and quit many MMOs in the last 10 years (and not looked back), but ffxi has been a mainstay over that time for some reason.

[Luvbunny]

Yes but WoTG died looooooong before abyssea came out. It was not fun, it was somewhat useless, and it was meaningless. Then they had to reboot the entire game, Abyssea was created. It's too big of a success to follow, and it's just to good of a game design to top. You can't kill the damn thing even if you want it too..... You would think that SoA would move everyone out of Abyssea. One good thing at least most of the bayld gears are sidegrades and nothing is screaming you must have it and it's game breaking. The only item that is worth your bayld is the Summoner staff lol.

[Fermion]

WotG died because there was little point to doing it, read: gear.

Why does Abyssea have to die? I'm glad it was and still is popular. With most jobs, there is much Abyssea gear that has no equal anywhere else. (NIN boots, SCH strat. enhancing gear, etc.). I think this is a good thing.

Bayld gears are pretty nice. Honestly, you're right, they're not game breaking, but I use lots of them for a much more subtle reason than their vanilla stats. Some pieces are nice macro place-holders that keep my hp/mp at a certain level when gear swapping (mage fast cast legs' +60mp :). I can't get that anywhere else. Of course, the average player probably won't care about such things, but to me, I absolutely love subtle gear tweaks like that.

[Umisame]

Hey, is it possible to enter in Wildskeeper Reive with more than 1 alliance? is there a limit of ppl?

[Yinnyth]

You guys seems forgetting Wings of the Goddess, you know, the last expansion with similar ideas. The one where almost 95% of the areas are abandoned and beast men running wild controlling the majority of the areas and nothing can be done and progress stalled forever. Even Walk of Echoes is deader than a door nail... Stop defending SE, be critical, or this expansion will suffer the same fate as its older brethren and will be forgotten within a year or so. Right now it's pretty bad, boring, and just no fun. Grinding is the name of the game, but there is a fun grind (aka Abyssea) and there is Reives....

Oh? And what good has being critical against SE done you so far? You think people didn't complain hard enough about walk of echoes and campaign, and that's why they suck?

There has never been a shortage of critics for anything. I can't think of a single thing in the game that whining has solved which intelligent discourse could not. I'm not saying you're whining, as long as you're not saying I'm defending SE.

But my point is it's a game, we (mostly) know its rules, and we've both agreed to play it. Let's adventuring together in Vana'diel.


Hey, is it possible to enter in Wildskeeper Reive with more than 1 alliance? is there a limit of ppl?
I have seen no reported cap on the number of people who can enter a wildskeeper reive together, and I would imagine they never bothered to program in a software cap on it. However, there is a hardware cap on everything, so I imagine if 5,000 people tried to join the reive, something bad would happen to at least 1 player. But it's probably subject to the same player limitations that Besieged posesses.

I could be completely wrong about this, however. I've been completely obsessed with leveling, meritting, skilling up, and gearing my rune fencer ever since the expansion came out, so I haven't been keeping current on other aspects of it. Good luck to you on finding a more reliable answer though, I'm quite curious myself~

[Ravenmore]

Old merit parties was the most boring thing I have ever done, those sure carried on for a long time. So what in a year people stop doing enough to keep the paths clear SE will adjust it just like they did the other day, or you know you can get a party together to clear the way to do missions. WoEs is still being done by the JPs just because the NAs don't do it doesn't mean it failed.

What pissed people off about WoTG was how long it took to finish the story line so people lost interest and seen campaign as just a a easy way to get some exp with out seeking when you didn't have time to or play using a different play style. When VW was at it's peak it was a easy way to get voiddust to spam more VW or sell to make a nice profit. As for taking zones there was no reason to really try to take the zones. The fight didn't even offer gear worth the effort to do the fight it self with it just being a slightly better side grade to AH gear.

So far this expansion is offering nice gear that is not just side grades but upgrades to many players. I think it is hard enough to keep me playing but not to hard to throw my hands up.

[Asymptotic]

No really - the main problem with WoTG is that there wasn't any gear (the dragging out of the missions was just an aggravation)

[Kincard]

If they had made all the allied notes sets as situationally useful as the Iron Ram set a lot more people probably would've done Campaign. Fourth and Cobra were both garbage sets.

Then there was like 2 good pieces per SCNM but the problem was that you have to farm like 12 NMs and then fight a BC with about 10 people every time you wanted a shot at it.

[Fredjan]

SE has taken notice, it seems. Incoming fix for reives all-around. Should address the problem.


We have confirmed the following issue as of Apr. 18, 2013. Investigation and recovery work is currently underway. We ask for your patience in this matter until the issue is addressed.

[Issue Details]
- An issue wherein a player’s reive evaluation is reset if they perform one of the following actions.
* Revive after being KO’d.
* Log back in to the game after being disconnected.

We apologize for any inconvenience this may cause and thank you for your understanding.

[hiko]

A three hours battle should not be the trend for this game.... 30-60 mnts type of events are more than plenty and it should be the norm. Are they seriously asking for another negative coverage on this game - after that godawful fiasco that is Pandemonium Warden?

itt "win in 3h" = "give up after 18h"


What are you talking about, people are busy with the short fight and clamoring for more. This is why it is so hard to get Voidwatch cities done because with all the running around and waiting, it can take 3-4 hours. Players detest the long activities where they have to commit more than 2 hours.


its hard to find VW city because very few people need it.
it's not a 3hrs fight its a bunch of 2min fights with 2h off runing/waiting

[Asymptotic]

SE has taken notice, it seems. Incoming fix for reives all-around. Should address the problem.

Fantastic!
And now Wildskeeper Reives are a perfect event!

[Camate]

We're very sorry that it took so long for us to get a response regarding this and apologize for the issue that occurred. We discussed this with the development team that this is a bug and we have confirmed that players should be receiving rewards when reviving after the reive is completed.

The bug you encountered is being addressed and we will be restarting the areas to reflect the fixes very soon. You can keep tabs on the status on PlayOnline News (http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/polnews/news22142.shtml).

Again, we apologize for the inconvenience.

[Karbuncle]

Thanks a bunch Camate, I know it sucks for those effected, But I'm thankful this was indeed a glitch and that its being fixed, and in the future, we can look forward to spoils even if we get unlucky at the last minute :)

[Prothscar]

We're very sorry that it took so long for us to get a response regarding this and apologize for the issue that occurred. We discussed this with the development team that this is a bug and we have confirmed that players should be receiving rewards when reviving after the reive is completed.

The bug you encountered is being addressed and we will be restarting the areas to reflect the fixes very soon. You can keep tabs on the status on PlayOnline News (http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/polnews/news22142.shtml).

Again, we apologize for the inconvenience.

Thank you for the reply, Camate. I'm glad the situation has been remedied!

[detlef]

Camate, you alright.

[Luvbunny]

Thanks for the update Camate, I am glad that at least the developer can acknowledge this issue and are working to rectify it.

[Horadrim]

Thanks a bunch Camate, I know it sucks for those effected, But I'm thankful this was indeed a glitch and that its being fixed, and in the future, we can look forward to spoils even if we get unlucky at the last minute :)

Why is there no private message system here...? How's a guy supposed to share (http://www.bg-wiki.com/images/3/3f/Ralacomposite.jpg) things with people?

Good to know this is a glitch, though.

[Camate]

Greetings everyone (and happy Friday!) :)

In case you haven't seen the news announcement (http://www.playonline.com/ff11us/polnews/news22149.shtml) yet, I just wanted to let you all know that the bug has been corrected during this morning's version update.

Again, I would like to apologize for this issue and for any inconveniences it may have caused.

Additionally, experience points and Bayld rewards when completing reives have been increased.

Make sure to continue your pioneering efforts to colonize Ulbuka throughout the weekend! I know I will be giving it my all :)

[Alhanelem]

Make sure to continue your pioneering efforts to colonize Ulbuka throughout the weekend! I know I will be giving it my all :)
Psssh! I know what you'll REALLY be doing :D

(p.s. You were awesome at PAX East! :) Especially your alt-tab skills were l33t!)

[Luvbunny]

Thank you again for this nice welcoming update, anything that is increasing risk - reward ratio is very welcome indeed. Hope to hear more good updates like this in the future and make SoA one of the best expansion to date, instead of the sorry state of it now. More good updates please!!

[Masamune11]

Can we be provided information on how the reduction to the bayld cost for the Naakual key items will work? We've been told there will be a reduction as a result of ranking up in coalitions, but can we get more specific information so we can work towards that goal in the meantime (is it better to rank up to contributor in one or two coalitions or better to rank up to probationer in all 6, etc.)?

[Zumi]

Did one of these didn't get a drop because the game thought I didn't have high enough evaluation. All I got was the KI. There was about 120 people doing it and mobs almost died as soon as they spawn only could get a couple hits in at most.

Seriously though 100k, well 95k with discount is still too much bayld, reives are just so boring.

[Buibird]

Hugs! Today went thru wildskeeper reive in foret! 4 hrs! 95k bayld! We won! I had room, did not D/C, got a hemlock, and no gear no weapon drop. Yes I have been there twice before so I have mask, and rng crossbow, but there are 3 pieces I do not have. Bst/whm so yes I spent time and money to get and help thru the 4 hrs, if it gave me the hemlock why did I not get a gear or weapon piece? Spoke with very nice GM bublex, and I spoke with several friends who do wilds more than me, and basically SE doesn't have the wilds fight set to where if you have the mask, and it wants to give you the mask, it should give you next thing you don't have or tell you even that you would have gotten a mask. We all work hard to earn our bayld for that one shot at 2 to however long it takes "7 hrs?" of wildskeeper NM fight. It's hard enough also for all of us to stay alive at end, not d/c, make room for item, to just come up with no gear/wpn drop, or msg about it, just the material item only. Hugs to you all, and yes, i'm earning bayld right now, so I can try again :)

[Zagen]

Hugs! Today went thru wildskeeper reive in foret! 4 hrs! 95k bayld! We won! I had room, did not D/C, got a hemlock, and no gear no weapon drop. Yes I have been there twice before so I have mask, and rng crossbow, but there are 3 pieces I do not have. Bst/whm so yes I spent time and money to get and help thru the 4 hrs, if it gave me the hemlock why did I not get a gear or weapon piece? Spoke with very nice GM bublex, and I spoke with several friends who do wilds more than me, and basically SE doesn't have the wilds fight set to where if you have the mask, and it wants to give you the mask, it should give you next thing you don't have or tell you even that you would have gotten a mask. We all work hard to earn our bayld for that one shot at 2 to however long it takes "7 hrs?" of wildskeeper NM fight. It's hard enough also for all of us to stay alive at end, not d/c, make room for item, to just come up with no gear/wpn drop, or msg about it, just the material item only. Hugs to you all, and yes, i'm earning bayld right now, so I can try again :)
I'm almost certain this is true for every drop in the game that has a Rare flag.

[Vizzer]

I'm dissapointed in the FFXI community for wanting this fixed, after seeing all the XI fanboys bashing XIV for not being "hardcore."

[OmnysValefor]

It's almost like there are different factions within the community.

And yeah, no, 4 hour fight to get nothing takes things to extremes. I realize this game has been beyond this point before, and famously so, but just because they've done worse doesn't mean this isn't pretty bad in itself.

[Anjou]

If there was a chance that this would happen to me, I'm sorry but I wouldn't even do it if all I do is waste 4 hours+ of my life for it to end up getting -nothing- at all.