Make it easier to make gils

[Brightshadow]

Currently in the game its way too rough for new and returning players to make gils, making it feel more like a job instead of a game I think that SE should evaluate the prices of all the things sold by npcs, and perhaps add easier ways to make gils here are some suggestions.

1.) Remove restriction from field and grounds of valor once per day tab and gil reward.
2.) Increase the gils earned by beastman by atleast triple the amount.
3.) Make crafting less complicated.
4.) Increase the drop rate of items.
5.) Lower the respawn time of NM around vana'diel.
6.) Reevaluate the amount of gils earned from quests and from items sold to npcs.

[Alhanelem]

(It's "gil", not "gils." Gil does not change when made plural)

First, you should understand that gil is supposed to come in slower when you're starting out- you also don't need as much, either. Everything you need is cheap from merchants in the first levels. Selling crystals on the AH is a good way to get some gil.

Most of the things you listed would likely cause RMT to start farming those things- especially beastmen- the amount they give goes up with the mob's level, so combine gilfinder with tripled gil values and it would be worthwhile to just run around places like upper delkfutt's tower killing all the beastmen there- too easy.

Gil from NPCing stuff needs to be balanced carefully- If it's too high, it sets a minimum price on the AH. If prices are higher on the AH, you need more gil, so changing this doesn't help things much.

However, I thoroughly agree with your comment about Fields of Valor- These rewards should be higher considering you can only get the gil and tabs once a day.

I'm not sure what you find complicated about crafting though. put a bunch of materials in a crystal and press OK. The crafting NPCs tell you many of the recipes, especially early on.

[Brightshadow]

The prices gradually go up, for example gear easily goes to 50k at level 20 from npc, and spells are expensive too making it very unfriendly for new players. Yes I can farm beehives and stuff like that but the effort is not worth it I would have to farm for hours to get enough gils to focus on leveling.

[Alhanelem]

You have to understand that if gil is easier to obtain, prices will go up- People have more gil, therefore sellers are able to charge more. More gil at low levels only helps with buying things from NPCs. The only prices that can be kept under control are the prices of items also sold by NPCs (as you can't sell stuff easily on the AH for much more than what the NPC charges in most cases).

Gil doesn't exist in a vaccum- it has to be destroyed as much as it is created. You can't just create more gil to solve this problem (Though, as I noted, I agree with you that the impact of FoV rewards is too small).

[Vivik]

Rabbit hides sell for 20k a stack on Cerb. Just sayin.

[Sfchakan]

Sell crystals you get on the AH, learn what else sells quickly, farm it; and other things everyone else did when they started playing this game. Eventually, gil will come very easy.

[Doombringer]

The prices gradually go up, for example gear easily goes to 50k at level 20 from npc, and spells are expensive too making it very unfriendly for new players. Yes I can farm beehives and stuff like that but the effort is not worth it I would have to farm for hours to get enough gils to focus on leveling.

see, THIS is the real problem. your first few levels of gear can indeed be purchased from an npc quite easily. but as you level up that gets really expensive really fast, and when you consider nobody crafts and sells mid level gear on the ah anymore, you can end up a little boned.

so i think the better solution here, is to lower the prices of, and dramatically increase the variety of, BASIC npc equipment.

[Hawklaser]

I would say the 1-30 NPC equipment costs need to be re-evaluated. Mostly for those that are using the 14 day free trial. Even a very new player would benefit, as it is likely they won't use the AH until after they get going for a bit as well.

While don't need as much gil in that level range compared to later, try keeping alright and close to your level of gear without use of the AH, or items/gil from other players. As those on the trial can't trade, use the delivery box, or use the AH.

[Sfchakan]

Completely agree that any NPC gear beyond level 10 is ridiculous overpriced.

[Luvbunny]

Completely agree that any NPC gear beyond level 10 is ridiculous overpriced.

There are plenty of cheap lower lvl stuffs in AH. I mean with the way things are now, you can easily get to lvl 60s in a matter of days if you are casual, and get your artifact gears. Then pretty much after you hit that sweet spot in Abyssea, you can farm your gears from NMs and gradually buy AH gears from Voidwatch, Legion, Meeble, etc...

But yeah - the game is not newbie friendly or easy to get into. You need a big amount of research to know what to do and where to do it.

[Kojo]

You mention in one post that gear is too high from Vendors, I know, but I think this was intended to make it easier on crafters to sell equipment and on newer players to buy it. Unfortunately, after Abyssea, most people get lv 30 and leech to 99 in Abyssea, so gear between lv 30 and 90~ is hard to come by because many people just didn't use it.

[Demon6324236]

Helping my friend out when he played the trial months ago I found it impossible to think this game could possibly be fun, because when playing it with him and helping him out I had to make him some money for gear. Because you can not trade players, or in any way get gil from one person to another, I took about 3 hours to farm items for him to turn in for quests and NPC in order to get him enough money for some armor from a NPC in Windy as well as a level 10 Claymore from Mhaura. If I did not show him the quests to do for more gil, it would have taken him even longer, that day we spent more time farming than he did leveling up, just so his gear would not be total crap. They really need to lower the NPC prices on gear, because now days you can not make enough money to keep up, not by a long shot, and unless you start the real game and are lucky enough to either know someone who will give you money or meet a kind stranger willing to donate some money, it is a complete pain to actually get yourself started.

[Demon6324236]

You mention in one post that gear is too high from Vendors, I know, but I think this was intended to make it easier on crafters to sell equipment and on newer players to buy it.There was a time when this was ok, but now with the leeching and all that which goes on, the main people effected by these prices are the people who are on the trial, and its impossible to really have fun on the trial when you are trying to feel out the game and at the same time can afford nothing without looking things up on the wiki for a few hours, not to mention the normally dead and abandoned zones you are running through. This is simply one of the things which help to deter players when playing the trial. Not saying your wrong, you actually make a very good point, but the fact is that it is doing more harm than good today, especially with the no AH/Trading rules of the trial version.

[Xantavia]

I never really found it that bad to gear up armor recently (even though I do have old odds and ends tossed in MH).
(low levels for melee oriented jobs)
lvl 1 event gear
lvl 7 leather armor (cheap from NPC's)
lvl 16 bone armor
lvl 21 beetle armor (these 2 are relatively low level synths, and bonecraft is pretty easy to level. 1 crystal, 1 item)
lvl 30ish RSE gear
lvl 50 Start getting AF
Past this, there should still be some key pieces available on the AH, like a scorpion harness or haubergeon.

I'll let you in on a secret too. Don't level through easy prey in GoV parties. Strike out on your own and slowly level up. Then take all those delicious Conquest Points to buy armor/weapons. Gear yourself up with it, or sell it on the AH. I picked up a few lvl 30 items from Bastok recently, wore it for a few levels then sold it off quick.

[Demon6324236]

In all honesty most of what you just said is based on the idea you have money before hand, which is fine, most do, but new players are unable to do much of what you said because they can not afford it, for instance the lv7 leather armor you mentioned, which is unaffordable even if you level just outside of your home country and NPC everything, which a new player is likely to do. This problem does not effect current players, but rather new players, and seeing as this game does need new players, it is quite the concern.

[Kincard]

Gil doesn't really need to be any easier to get but I do strongly agree they should adjust the price of armor from vendors for the sake of newer players. It's not like any of it has any real use. Occasionally someone might use them in craft skillups (like making chainmail into silver mail etc) but I doubt that's really such a big deal.

Alternatively people in the past have suggested allowing people to buy basic armor using tabs, which is also a good solution.

[Brightshadow]

Sorry it took me so long to respond.

1.) Since nobody crafts lower level gear anymore because leveling is much faster, it will be very unlikely for a new or returning player to buy gear from the AH unless its a rare piece of armor that will cost millions.

2.) I know that SE makes Gil hard to obtain because of RMT but in end they aren't really helping they are actually hurting the playerbase because a new player would have more limited options and newer players would be considered gimp.

3.) The prices from NPCs are way too high, starting off as a mage is very unwise because you would have to buy spells and armor while a damage dealer or tank would only need to buy gear and maybe a couple of spells.

4.) Buying gear from the NPCs is also a big lost to your Gil amount because unlike the AH you cannot regain a good amount of your Gil back and the prices are way too high for example the geomancer spells are around 8 million Gil so what my only alternate to playing a mage countless hours of farming or I would have to level something like a blue mage that doesn't buy it spells.

[Kojo]

In regards to GEO spells, I'd recommend having them randomly drop from reives, to let people undercut vendor NPCs.

[JouriStarz]

I honestly believe they made the Geomancer spells that ridiculous to help deflate the economy after the chocobo blinker craze.

[Xantavia]

In all honesty most of what you just said is based on the idea you have money before hand, which is fine, most do, but new players are unable to do much of what you said because they can not afford it, for instance the lv7 leather armor you mentioned, which is unaffordable even if you level just outside of your home country and NPC everything, which a new player is likely to do. This problem does not effect current players, but rather new players, and seeing as this game does need new players, it is quite the concern.
I have to disagree with this, since this is almost exactly what I did when I started a few years ago. I didn't know about the AH, never clicked on it, since I was thinking it would be like FF6 and 9 and i knew I didn't have a lot of gil to spend. Maybe I got lucky since I started in Windurst, but I farmed crawlers to make my money. 300 gil for turning in silk thread from crawlers. Got lucky every now and then with crawler calculus stones. The few times I ran into skeletons and got bone chips, turned them into bone hairpins (wind crystal + chip), then NPC'd them for like 120 gil.

Yes, my way was slow, but I wasn't in any real rush. It could be that I am more patient than a lot of players, that I do the tedious grind and don't really care about rushing into endgame. Methods are out there if you are looking to build a slow and steady income instead of waiting for that one big windfall.

[Demon6324236]

Yes, my way was slow, but I wasn't in any real rush. It could be that I am more patient than a lot of players, that I do the tedious grind and don't really care about rushing into endgame. Methods are out there if you are looking to build a slow and steady income instead of waiting for that one big windfall.How long did it take you to get to level 7? My friend went outside of Windy and hit level 7 in less than a hour during double XP, so normally you are looking at around a hour and a half. He was not rushing, but again, unless you run around the wiki for hours learning how to make money and what to do, you will end up to broke for things. I spent about 3 hours just farming up money for level 10 gear for his WAR and a Claymore, now hes on the real game and actually likes it cause I loaned him 100k to start him off, before he hated it.

[Xantavia]

I started a few months before WotG came out, so I can't say how long it took me to get to 7. But no field manuals and the old xp rates, along with xp loss, I can say it took more than a day. I didn't even know about the wiki at first (just Gamefaqs), but I talked to almost everybody in town and was able to figure out some quests that way.

[Luvbunny]

A lot of people were able to hit level 12-13 outside the starting zones in less than an hour during double xp weekend - and if you have the xp ring. Probably around 60-90 mnts top for newbies. Yes the game is so archaic when it comes to giving new players explanation on how to do things the right way. What is baffling is this, they can give brand new players a symbol next to their names but cannot give NPC Quest similar symbol to make sure people know who to ask.... This company and this game is indeed very backward and antiquated...

[Vagrua]

How long did it take you to get to level 7? My friend went outside of Windy and hit level 7 in less than a hour during double XP, so normally you are looking at around a hour and a half. He was not rushing, but again, unless you run around the wiki for hours learning how to make money and what to do, you will end up to broke for things. I spent about 3 hours just farming up money for level 10 gear for his WAR and a Claymore, now hes on the real game and actually likes it cause I loaned him 100k to start him off, before he hated it.

I was lucky enough to have someone loan me 20k when I first started to get me on my feet. Some moat carp fishing gave me most of my income when I first started the game. That small amount gil doesn't amount to much anymore considering end game gear is 1m+ for most useful items.

You have to take your chances with either Voidwatch getting plates/cells to sell from shout groups or farm Dynamis/Limbus these days. The only other choices I can think of are mercing or if you have a linkshell, to farm ADL/PW for gil splits.

[Demon6324236]

My point was with the leveling at the speed it is today people can not make that much money as fast, its why new players often end up either in gusgen at level 30+ with level 1 gear or they end up running around soloing things in much the same condition, but occasionally die and get a free warp back home, where they might find some level 7 gear they can buy one or two pieces of gear for before heading back out again.

[Mirage]

To the OP:

Why? If gil is made easier to gain, the relative value will sink. End result: Shit's just as expensive as before, just with an extra zero or two behind all values.

[Crusader81]

if they do what it looks like with R/E/M then it's actually going to become much much much harder to make any money in this game, to the point I don't even see how the average person will make any.

[Luvbunny]

if they do what it looks like with R/E/M then it's actually going to become much much much harder to make any money in this game, to the point I don't even see how the average person will make any.

Well SoA new weapons currently besting the R/M?E so (almost) every one (who is not too casual) could get one eventually (when you manage to farm your bayld). Unless it's not 100% drop, and you are forced to farm bayld the way you farm your dyna currency - by whacking more roots and rocks, till you are bored to death and just quit lol.

[Alhanelem]

To the OP:

Why? If gil is made easier to gain, the relative value will sink. End result: Shit's just as expensive as before, just with an extra zero or two behind all values.
on a semi-related topic, people made the same kind of loud noise over the plans to chop a digit off of gil in FFXIV- everyone's gil, all NPC prices, etc were all had a digit dropped from their values- so the relative value of gil vs price of goods stays the same but everyone screamed "YOU"RE TAKING MY GIL AWAY WAAAH!".

[Horadrim]

Economics 101

Pretty much.

[Luvbunny]

To the OP: Why? If gil is made easier to gain, the relative value will sink. End result: Shit's just as expensive as before, just with an extra zero or two behind all values.

Well to be honest, we did have a gill fountain for over two years!!! TWO WHOLE YEARS of free gills for everyone. And not a damn thing was made - then somebody decided that it's enough fun for everyone. Time to make FFXI become as unbearable as possible and slow everyone's progress to a crawl till all the casuals leave the game to FF14. I am not that dumb, we see how SE is trying to kill FFXI hoping we all would move to FF14. If this fail and FF14 bombs again, they will just release another Abyssea 2.0 to get more people coming back. And they will call it Dissidia and you get to fight all the major characters and bosses from all other FF games.

[RAIST]

gotta love how one of the more obvious solutions doesn't get much attention....and yes, I will bring it up again. Guess someone needs to play devil's advocate on this one. Flame if you want, but it is true.

No, crafting (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Crafts) is not complicated. Plenty of info/guides out there. It is all laid out in a very clever design if one just bothers to read up on it.

For instance, that leather vest set (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Leather_Vest_Set) are Amatuer rank leathercraft items....can make the bandana with 0 skill. If you want to skill up a bit for better chance of making the rest of the set, you can synth/desynth bandanas to get up to level 5 leather (all you need are wind and thunder crystals and sheep leather...which conveniently is a level 2 synth that can be made from sheepskins, which you may be getting as you are xp'ing anyway). Then you can make the rest of the set---skilling up some more so you can make more set with fewer breaks and then sell them for profit to those not willing to put a little effort into it. Then, you can move on to higher sets with lizard, dhalmel, etc. skins as you get higher skills to support higher character levels. The more enterprizing crafter can do crossover synths with bone/smithing items to level those skills as well along the way for more variety and more profits.

After all, that is how it all begain a decade ago.....

[Demon6324236]

I am not that dumb, we see how SE is trying to kill FFXI hoping we all would move to FF14.Why does that sentence look like it completely contradicts itself?

[Yenecol]

After all, that is how it all begain a decade ago.....

I thought it all began with a stone... or so the legend goes.

But yeah, I agree completely - you can craft lots of the starter gear yourself and that's part of the experience. I remember starting out being proud of the vagabond set I managed to make.

SE is not going to make getting gil easier. If anything, for years they keep doing the opposite. Every single time thief figures out a way to make gil, they nerf it!

[Annalise]

Low level crafting is pretty phenominal for making gil right now if you're starting off (and know or figure out how to do it).

It was mentioned about selling beehive chips on the auction house. On my server that would actually not be a good idea. Why? 5-6k a stack for beehive chips, or 30k a stack for beeswax? Even if you don't high quality any of the beeswax, you will still make more money making them into beeswax (which is skill level 5, so you can make those right from 0). 15-18k for selling those three stacks, vs. 30k for making a stack of beeswax.

If you level them up a bit, more opportunities open. Especially right now if you level leather a bit. Dhalmel leather is currently 11k/single or 100k/stack on my server because of Adoulin.

On my server:
Beeswax is 30k/stack
Sheep leather is 30k/stack
Copper Ingots are 25k/stack
Brass ingots are 40k/stack

Those are some examples. Not game breaking by any means, but it all adds up. Especially if you are buying the materials (e.g. sheep leather or copper ore) for damn near nothing at the npc. If you know a bit about crafting or take some time to look around, you can do pretty well low level.

One other thing is selling scrolls from NPCs on the AH:
Fire 2 - 16-19k in Selbina
AH is steadily selling them for 35K.

Again, not big gil but that all adds up too. Chances are listing things like Aero 2, Water 2, etc. will have someone buying them all as they're leveling. If you have ease of exploration on your server, you can instantly travel to Selbina to buy them and AH them.

I agree the game should tell you a bit more about things rather than having to figure out everything using fan made websites. And I also agree that the Auction House screws people over mid levels.

With things the way they are presently, that is about the only thing I can currently offer new people. I agree that it would be worthwhile to make some basic gear for affordable prices for much of the mid levels.

[Urthdigger]

I find making money isn't that difficult in-game. The important things to keep in mind are how to increase your profit, and decrease your costs.

First and foremost, take a look at what's selling. This can be the most daunting part to start with, although you can get a little hang of it by checking the AH for every item you snag while xping. If it sells multiple times a day, that's a good item to sell (Barring if the item is rather difficult to obtain, like brown casket equipment). If it sells probably once a month, you're likely better tossing it at an NPC. Something can be selling for 50k a pop, but if people aren't buying you're better off using that slot for 1k items that fly off the shelves. Moving your product is one of the most important aspects of making money on the AH.

On a related note, look to alternative ways to make money than the AH so that you can still make money when your seven slots are full. One common example is to check NPC selling prices. Many times, you can sell to an NPC for close to what you can sell it on the AH for... a small loss may make up for being able to use that AH slot for something else. Rarely, you can sell it to an NPC for more than the AH. Quests are another big example. On my server at least, both black tiger fangs and bat wings can earn you MORE money turning them in for the quest than selling them on the AH, so you can make a profit AND work on raising your fame for higher NPC selling prices and more quests.

Soloing is very good for getting money early on, and nowadays isn't that difficult. In addition to the free money from Grounds of Valor, you should use your prior research of what does and doesn't sell, and use that to decide where to go. Good targets are bats and tigers (for the aforementioned reasons, tigers moreso as the hides can sell on the AH), sheep (turn the skins into leather and sell stacks of it. Bring windurstian tea leaves, distilled water, and dark crystals so you can craft on the go), bees (Beehive chips, either sell as is or make honey or beeswax.), and beastmen (Straight up gil drops, beastcoins, and many of their unique drops are often bought for desynthesis). There are plenty of other things with decent drops as well, so keep an eye out.

Another possible money maker, although you may wish to get some gobbiebag upgrades first, is HELM (Harvesting, Excavating, Logging, Mining). If the place you're gonna solo at has points for these, go ahead and give it a shot. Just pull out your tool whenever you come by a spot and use it up. This works best if you have the carpentry/smithing skills to convert ores and logs into stackable lumber and ingots. On that note, fishing can be a decent money maker, although that's a little harder to justify doing in the middle of soloing, as you can fish a single spot until you hit fatigue for the day. Which brings me up to another point...

Check out daily/hourly/weekly/whatever activities. There's often a reason why certain repeatable quests and events have limits on how often they can be done. Things like fishing, chocobo racing, chocobo digging, gardening, repeatable quests, add-on scenario keys... anything that has a limit on how often you can do it over time is often good for money. Essentially, like most content it is balanced around getting a certain amount of stuff over a given period of time. Unlike killing mobs, which places that limit with a drop rate, time restrictions keep the same "loot over time" balance while requiring you to only spend a fraction of your time on that activity.

Finally, all this advice is primarily for lower level stuff, and I haven't even touched on all of that. Keep an eye out for anything that looks profitable and take a chance. Competition will be your biggest issue in making money, both in gathering the materials and on the AH. There are many hidden nuggets out there that nobody bothers to work with, but which can earn you a decent chunk of change. Especially if you're the sole provider.

--------

So, the secondary part. Not spending your money. First and foremost, consider how badly you need something. For example, if you're soloing the level differential will be in your favor, and you don't really need to spend several hundreds of thousands of gil on a massive +acc piece. Secondly, compare AH and vendor prices. You'd be surprised sometimes which one is the cheaper option. Third, keep small purchases in check. Things like chocobo rentals, outpost teleports, they can add up over time (Though, on that note, spending 10 minutes to walk someplace to save 500 gil is likely not worth it, as you can easily make that 500 gil in the 10 minutes saved. This is mostly a concern for shorter distances)

[RAIST]

One thing to keep in mind concerning a point made in Urthdigger's post:

If it sells probably once a month, you're likely better tossing it at an NPC. Something can be selling for 50k a pop, but if people aren't buying you're better off using that slot for 1k items that fly off the shelves.

Don't discount a high value item simply because it appears to have a slow sell rate. It may have a slow turnover rate simply because it isn't frequently placed on the AH--but when it IS listed, it goes fast and for a high price because of the rarity in which the item gets posted.

For instance, Army's Peon V sells for a rate of roughly once a week (.2 times per day)....for over 1.1M to 1.3M a pop. In comparison, Phalanx goes consistantly for 1.6-1.7M a pop 2-3 times a week (1.4 times a day). Phalanx routinely has a couple scrolls up, but that Peon scroll only goes up roughly once a week, and sells out within a day of posting.

So, if you have a high priced item that appears to have a slow turnover rate, it is often worth it to go ahead and post it at least once before turning it into NPC fodder (especiallly if it is currently out of stock).

[Rustic]

Currently in the game its way too rough for new and returning players to make gils, making it feel more like a job instead of a game I think that SE should evaluate the prices of all the things sold by npcs, and perhaps add easier ways to make gils here are some suggestions.


I can wander outside to a bunch of level 1 mobs, massacre them and make 30K/stack off their remains.

I can walk outside Windurst, butcher a bunch of newbie crawlers and make 90-100k stacks of silk cloth. Heck, I can walk into the Clothcraft guild and make 36 stacks of -velvet- cloth for the same amount.

That's at 51 Clothcraft. 42-52 is stacks of insect wings that go for 1K each on the AH. 32-42 is stacks of bird feathers. Same price. Everything below that is trivial to acquire.

Or, you can walk into Delfkutt's, massacre the incredibly common lightning elementals that have a 5 minute repop. 60K/stack for clusters. Walk into San d'Oria. Desynth leather belts (low level LC)for stacks of leather (26K) and iron (40K) for a profit off stacks of crystals you bought off the AH for a few thousand each. Go to Jeuno. Silver ingots from rings/earrings at the jewel shop in Lower Jeuno. Low level goldsmithing.

Take a bunch of fire crystals and melt down some incredibly cheap (8-9G) copper ore for 24K/stack at level 1 goldsmithing, or lightning crystal + Yagudo necklace for the same at the same GS level.

Gil isn't hard to make. People are merely utterly ignorant on it's methods and fail to ask for help. You can make a fortune on a character who doesn't even leave their starting city, much less one that actually farms. I've even seen people cheerfully throwing away money because they don't know what a quest turn-in is.

Every time you sell me a darksteel ore under 4K? I walk into the Metalworks and make money without visible effort. Stack of tiger fangs under 8K? Free money in San d'Oria. (for that matter, bat wings under 2K- my fame also thanks you for that)

We don't need easier Gil-making. We need players that actually have the brain cells to look at where the Gil is to make it.

[Rustic]

Well to be honest, we did have a gill fountain for over two years!!! TWO WHOLE YEARS of free gills for everyone.

Are you that ignorant of basic economics?

There is no such thing as "free gil". The more Gil pumped into the economy, the higher prices inflate. In effect, that kind of inflation actually ends up being more of a hardship as the "simple" economy of quests, vendor sales, etc. becomes less worth doing. And frankly, the new management realized that even as the prior one ignored it in favor of the burning failure that was FFXIV 1.0...because they didn't really give a darn about how FFXI was going. They broke the economy and the exp system in favor of letting what they thought was an MMO that would be dead and replaced inside of a year or two.

Well, as you can see- FFXI is not dead and FFXIV is in the throes of attempting to come back to life. If we want a viable game in the long-term, junk like the "fountain" of RMT-loved blinker gil needed to be cut out of the circuit. That prices on many AH items have dropped considerably (meaning the average player actually gets stuff more easily and with less market-rambling) is a GOOD thing.

[Rustic]

I agree the game should tell you a bit more about things rather than having to figure out everything using fan made websites. And I also agree that the Auction House screws people over mid levels.

Nowadays, that's due to a lack of demand. The exp system means people blaze through post-30 levels so fast that demand for gear is almost zero, and I lay that blame squarely on Abyssea and the whole 30-99 leechfest. It's another example of how trivializing part of the game had nasty side effects.

Conquest point gear is about as popular a choice in that range as I can suggest nowadays, since old-school stuff like Baron's gear is almost impossible to find due to crafters simply not having regular demand for making it.


With things the way they are presently, that is about the only thing I can currently offer new people. I agree that it would be worthwhile to make some basic gear for affordable prices for much of the mid levels.

As noted, though- there is no mid-level game anymore. It's 1-30, then it's one cycle of level-limit breaking to 99, then every other job is 1-30 -> 99 from Abyssea.

Behold the big swathe of the game broken by overdoing it on exp gain.

[Rustic]

How long did it take you to get to level 7? My friend went outside of Windy and hit level 7 in less than a hour during double XP, so normally you are looking at around a hour and a half. He was not rushing, but again, unless you run around the wiki for hours learning how to make money and what to do, you will end up to broke for things. I spent about 3 hours just farming up money for level 10 gear for his WAR and a Claymore, now hes on the real game and actually likes it cause I loaned him 100k to start him off, before he hated it.

Trial accounts are fundamentally non-functional for long periods of play at the same levels as a real one. Simple as that, or else we'd be sitting here with tons of RMT "trials" hosing everything in sight. I'm not surprised that his economic woes were there, if you wanted to have a character geared like a real one...handing him Gil the game system normally expects him to get via AH transactions was one of the few ways to do it.

I've always found the most important thing to teach a new player IS the importance of the AH in the game. Without it, getting geared up is a difficult task (barring outside assistance). If a player's going past level 10? He's gonna need to be able to tap into that if he wants to actually gear up, or be very careful on what they hunt. A gobbie-and-crawler hunting newbie ends up with a ton more money than the same newbie that got leveled up rapid-fire on whacking bumblebees, because the vendor-sales + gil drops add up better.

Unfortunately, if you gave trial players AH access, they'd just be turned by RMT into Gil-transfer mules. It's a catch-22.

[Nephilipitou]

No they don't need to make gil easier to get.

Learn to farm
Learn to craft
Learn to do something useful
Participate in the MMO community instead of just solo for easy gil

You're alternative is to fine some good cheese to go with your WHINE.

My wife barely started playing the game and she made millions in her first month. I came back with no ability to spam chocobo blinders and had no gil on me, so I had to go and farm, craft, and sell, and I just now got back to the point to where I can make a mil every other week or so.

If my brand new player wife who is far higher leveled in cooking than I was able to pay me back the gil I loaned her and make millions, then you can figure something out too. She has no character over 25, she farms, she sells, she cooks, she profits.

I loaned her like 400k. SE Is not going to make it to where you can create an alliance of people to go into the Boyhada tree and kill 6 mobs and get on average of like 1-2k PER PERSON completing the page, and thus make 18-36k every 6 mobs combined. In an hour that would probably be a few million and that would destroy the economy

Go farm something, pick up a craft, go get Abyssea pops do SOMETHING.

[SinisterJoint]

There are plenty of cheap lower lvl stuffs in AH. I mean with the way things are now, you can easily get to lvl 60s in a matter of days if you are casual, and get your artifact gears. Then pretty much after you hit that sweet spot in Abyssea, you can farm your gears from NMs and gradually buy AH gears from Voidwatch, Legion, Meeble, etc...

But yeah - the game is not newbie friendly or easy to get into. You need a big amount of research to know what to do and where to do it.

New players cant do this, think about the rate that they gain traverser stones... (being a returning player, this is the problem I am having) They need to adjust the traverser stone gain rate as well IMO

[Frankbrodie]

It's definitely just knowing what to do. And I'm sure that is the hardest part for anyone being dropped into such a huge, confusing world not knowing a thing.

I almost guarantee could start a new character on a different server to all my others, and with no input from other players be making 100k+ a day from it within 2-3 days of starting. (other than the fact other players would be purchasing my stuff from AH)

And I mean just playing for a sensible 5-6 hours a day. (That's sensible for me running 3 accounts all for 12-15 hours daily lol)
And not just farming. 50/50 earning gil and doing actual gameplay stuff.

[Nephilipitou]

Easy gil for lowbies

Wild Onions - many servers 20k+ a stack easiest to get in Windy, but obtainable if you can only access Sandy by going to

Ranperre's Tomb and just spamming gobbies.

Farm Crystals. 2-5k a stack. what's not to like. Obtained by talking to a gate guard participating in conquest and hitting stuff.

Kill Beastmen. Sometimes they drop stuff that you can sell and later levels you get stuff that NPCs for 3-5k. You know what else? THEY DROP FREE GEAR!

Open brown caskets. Stuff in there can be NPC'd for 200-300 later levels 10k to an NPC, and there's also Evoliths that are an easy 700 gil.

Fish Moat Carps. Price fluctuates but it's incredibly easy, if not tedious, make sure you've been playing for at least a couple weeks and are above level 20 but you'll do fine, and my friend would buy brand new gear every 5 levels with the money he made from moat carps.

Kill bees for Beehive Chips and Honey

Kill Hares for Hare Meat and maybe hide, but hides you trade into an NPC for reputation. Later when your reputation gets higher you can do Tiger Fangs instead, and later when you can kill Goobues you can farm Boyhada Moss for reputation or lots of gil at Auction Houses.

You can also do Smithing or Goldsmithing I forget which. Brass Ingots is incredibly easy to make, and you only have to spend a bit of crystals and a tiny bit of gill for ingots then you can make brass ingots and sell them 40k a stack.

Even if you pay 5k for a stack of crystals and pay 1k for a zinc ore (you can get them for cheaper if you're willing to put in effort) that's still only 17k our of your 40k Brass Ingots stack going to materials. The cost for copper ore is literally 10-30 gil each so less than 100 gil per craft so that's negligible at best. It's going to have some growing pains but once you get to about 7 or so in that craft you shouldn't break much anymore unless you're like crafting with a fire crystal on watersday? I think that's what messes you up on fire crystals.

These are things that are never going to get over flooded. The Beehive Chips are used for making Beeswax which is used for countless things in this game. Wild Onions are for skillup food which people probably won't ever stop paying high gil for. Boyhada moss is for Reputation to increase the size of your bags, and every player needs reputation so the ones with lots of gil for mules or second accounts just buy them on the AH at inflated prices, but you still make 600 gil for each on you turn in yourself so that's some gil right there.

Like I said farm gobbies for gear, NPCable items, etc.

There are lots of hides that you can NPC for a lot, and later on when you're high level and using uber inexpensive abyssea pearl, aurore, teal gear, you can farm those hides for nothing, or go to a worm party and get tons of zinc ore.

Plus zinc ore is used for Tenshodo reputation which is extremely important for summoners, ninja, possibly samurai, so once you can start farming those you can even make up to 1k or 2k a pop on those.

Later on if you do Abyssea Grauberg, Abyssea Ulegerand Range, or Abyssea Altepa for exp partying, you can get Dominion Ops notes and those can get you weapons that NPC for 7k but only cost 2k notes give or take from the NPC.

There are tons of ways to make gil. Figure one out.

[Alhanelem]

New players cant do this, think about the rate that they gain traverser stones... (being a returning player, this is the problem I am having) They need to adjust the traverser stone gain rate as well IMO
They dont' need to increase the stone gain rate. You can increase it yourself by accomplishing abyssea tasks. That being said, they could do something to make getting those boosts to stones easier to obtain, or allow people to buy their way in like with the airship pass / audolin teleport.

Once you've done those things, your stone supply is essentially limitless. I have over 2300 traverser stones, even though I visit abyssea on a regular basis.

[Nephilipitou]

the key is to start earning stones BEFORE you take your hiatus.

[SinisterJoint]

They dont' need to increase the stone gain rate. You can increase it yourself by accomplishing abyssea tasks. That being said, they could do something to make getting those boosts to stones easier to obtain, or allow people to buy their way in like with the airship pass / audolin teleport.

Once you've done those things, your stone supply is essentially limitless. I have over 2300 traverser stones, even though I visit abyssea on a regular basis.

even with all 3 abyssites, its still slow. 30minutes per stone is by far not a lot of time. Think about it from a new player/returning player standpoint.

New expac brings old players (who might not have had abyssea) and new players. They get in and start their stone timer. Even a week's worth wont get you far. Ever try farming boots from gold chests ? Seal farms don't exactly always drop what you need/want.

Its not allowing new/returning players to get in on the action, there is only so much outdated content someone can do before they get bored.


the key is to start earning stones BEFORE you take your hiatus.

Tell me about it, I wish I had.

[Alhanelem]

even with all 3 abyssites, its still slow. 30minutes per stone is by far not a lot of time. Think about it from a new player/returning player standpoint.with all relevant abyssites, its 45 minutes per stone, and you can carry 5 at a time, and they generate every 8 hours. Build time before you engage in other tasks and you'll almost never use another traverser stone again. You don't need a big party to build time.

[SinisterJoint]

with all relevant abyssites, its 45 minutes per stone, and you can carry 5 at a time, and they generate every 8 hours. Build time before you engage in other tasks and you'll almost never use another traverser stone again. You don't need a big party to build time.

Your still neglecting that new players WONT have those abyssites, farming/attaining those abyssites also takes time which new players...... you guessed it... wont have.

Turning a cheek doesn't mean a problem for new and returning players isn't there, it very much is.

The add-on's have been out long enough to warrant either bonus stones for new players (giving them a starting stock of 25-30 should be sufficient) or adding time per stone or lessen the time it takes to gain them.

Just because you have 2300 stones means nothing for these players.

[RAIST]

It's actually 48 minutes per stone. And some of those abyssites for reducing stone regeneration and extending time for stone are stupid easy to get. You can even "rent" a whisker from the AH for one abyssite (you get it back so you can sell it back on the AH when done). Go kill normal Tonberries for another. Kill forced pop NM's for others. Think one or two may have been quested...forget exactly, there's so many of them.

As for not having the stones.... ummm.... why would they need a lot of them? If they came up the generally accepted way these days, they were leeching in a party that was giving them time extensions. Spend one stone to get in, leech a while and leave with 120 minutes to come back later. If you do it right, you can pick up time to add to your saved time and stay in there for hours without even spending a stone....which means you are steadily accruing them because you aren't spending them.


Jeesh... how many times is this concept gonna be discussed before it finally sinks in?

Feel like we're beating the proverbial dead horse.

For those that can't/won't/or otherwise don't use a wiki:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Abyssite

Clerity abyssites:
Traverser stones replenish 4 hours sooner. Existing stock is increased retroactively

Azure -- Defeat Tonberry Bedeviler/Cryptonberry/Occultist -- Abyssea - Konschtat
Crimson -- Complete quest Whither the Whisker -- Abyssea - Vunkerl
(buy and resell whisker from AH)
Ivory -- Purchased from Cruor Prospector for 9000 cruor --- Heroes of Abyssea

Sojourn Abyssites:
Enhances the potency of a traverser stone, allowing the bearer to abide in Abyssea for extended durations. Extends amount of Visitant time provided by Traverser Stones by 10% (+3 minutes per stone).

Ivory -- Purchased from Cruor Prospector for 6000 cruor -- Vision areas
Jade -- Defeat Mielikki -- Abyssea - Attohwa
Sapphire -- Complete quest Destiny Odyssey -- Abyssea - Misareaux
Scarlet -- Defeat Ovni -- Abyssea - La Theine
Emerald -- Defeat Waugyl -- Abyssea - Altepa
Indigo -- Defeat Assailer Chariot -- Abyssea - Grauberg

Then there are ones that increase how many stones you can carry at once, which are fairly simple to get as well.

Note also that some of those NM's can be SOLOED (at worst low-manned or a party of 6).

[SinisterJoint]

It's actually 48 minutes per stone. And some of those abyssites for reducing stone regeneration and extending time for stone are stupid easy to get. You can even "rent" a whisker from the AH for one abyssite (you get it back so you can sell it back on the AH when done). Go kill normal Tonberries for another. Kill forced pop NM's for others. Think one or two may have been quested...forget exactly, there's so many of them.

As for not having the stones.... ummm.... why would they need a lot of them? If they came up the generally accepted way these days, they were leeching in a party that was giving them time extensions. Spend one stone to get in, leech a while and leave with 120 minutes to come back later. If you do it right, you can pick up time to add to your saved time and stay in there for hours without even spending a stone....which means you are steadily accruing them because you aren't spending them.


Jeesh... how many times is this concept gonna be discussed before it finally sinks in?

Feel like we're beating the proverbial dead horse.

For those that can't/won't/or otherwise don't use a wiki:
http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Abyssite

Clerity abyssites:
Traverser stones replenish 4 hours sooner. Existing stock is increased retroactively

Azure -- Defeat Tonberry Bedeviler/Cryptonberry/Occultist -- Abyssea - Konschtat
Crimson -- Complete quest Whither the Whisker -- Abyssea - Vunkerl
(buy and resell whisker from AH)
Ivory -- Purchased from Cruor Prospector for 9000 cruor --- Heroes of Abyssea

Sojourn Abyssites:
Enhances the potency of a traverser stone, allowing the bearer to abide in Abyssea for extended durations. Extends amount of Visitant time provided by Traverser Stones by 10% (+3 minutes per stone).

Ivory -- Purchased from Cruor Prospector for 6000 cruor -- Vision areas
Jade -- Defeat Mielikki -- Abyssea - Attohwa
Sapphire -- Complete quest Destiny Odyssey -- Abyssea - Misareaux
Scarlet -- Defeat Ovni -- Abyssea - La Theine
Emerald -- Defeat Waugyl -- Abyssea - Altepa
Indigo -- Defeat Assailer Chariot -- Abyssea - Grauberg

Then there are ones that increase how many stones you can carry at once, which are fairly simple to get as well.

Note also that some of those NM's can be SOLOED (at worst low-manned or a party of 6).

First bolded requires what exactly? (yep fame!) which requires what exactly? Time!! (or gil... but then we are delving into the whole buy for power argument so we will just leave that out of it)

Yes tonberry is easy now...

Ahh yes Solo'd by an AF+1 + GEARED PLAYER. I like this whole "I have plenty of stones so I don't need to worry about it thus you don't need to worry about I" mentality. Moronic at best.


Also, the sojourns.. Those NM's require what to spawn? pop items or some KI's yes? Guess what that takes... time.

You seem to think that someone that comes in with 1 stone to start is able to do all these things with ease, which to you I then say.... WAKE UP.


Increasing the amount you can carry means nothing imo as we are talking about time....

AF boots... where do you get them?

I mean there is a list longer than you will admit to get all these things, which you so generously left out. Regardless, the fact is returning players who didn't have aby or new players are at a DISTINCT DISADVANTAGE to even get their foot in the door of SoA. Even people with all +2's have trouble in SoA, its 99 content and im not bitching about that at all.

I do feel that the amount of stones given to new/returning players who DIDNT HAVE ABYSSEA before they left needs to be adjusted.. Starting with 1 worked when it first came out to control the pace at which players blew through the content. Years later its time to move upward... quit acting like its not a problem for those players because you have a mountain of stones you aren't using.

[Alhanelem]

Your still neglecting that new players WONT have those abyssites, farming/attaining those abyssites also takes time which new players...... you guessed it... wont have.New players aren't supposed to have gobs of abyssea time, don't you understand? Abyssea is intentionally very restricted at first, and it opens up as you play it. Abyssea is a mid-to-early-endgame system- Not a new player system.

Everybody will eventually get stones faster they could possibly use them. If you start people with "23-30" stones, they may as well not exist, but they exist because abyssea is a power playground and it isn't intended for you to stay there indefinitely unless you keep busy while you're there.

[Hawklaser]

As a returning player, I had no issues with stones for abyssea on a fresh character, though I also did not abyssea leech experience post 30. Getting the abyssite from the tonberries is really simple if a you make friend or two. Then there is the one you can buy with cruor, which is really easy to get. So long as they flag the stone creation at 30 they should be fine unless they hop right into abyssea immediately after flagging it.

Really the only part of gil that needs to be adjusted is costs of pre-30 items from vendors, and that is more for those on the free trial, for the simple fact they can not use the AH or trade with other players.

[RAIST]

First bolded requires what exactly? (yep fame!) which requires what exactly? Time!! (or gil... but then we are delving into the whole buy for power argument so we will just leave that out of it)

Yes tonberry is easy now...

Ahh yes Solo'd by an AF+1 + GEARED PLAYER. I like this whole "I have plenty of stones so I don't need to worry about it thus you don't need to worry about I" mentality. Moronic at best.


Also, the sojourns.. Those NM's require what to spawn? pop items or some KI's yes? Guess what that takes... time.

You seem to think that someone that comes in with 1 stone to start is able to do all these things with ease, which to you I then say.... WAKE UP.


Increasing the amount you can carry means nothing imo as we are talking about time....

AF boots... where do you get them?

I mean there is a list longer than you will admit to get all these things, which you so generously left out. Regardless, the fact is returning players who didn't have aby or new players are at a DISTINCT DISADVANTAGE to even get their foot in the door of SoA. Even people with all +2's have trouble in SoA, its 99 content and im not bitching about that at all.

I do feel that the amount of stones given to new/returning players who DIDNT HAVE ABYSSEA before they left needs to be adjusted.. Starting with 1 worked when it first came out to control the pace at which players blew through the content. Years later its time to move upward... quit acting like its not a problem for those players because you have a mountain of stones you aren't using.

O M G.... really? REALLY? Where do I even start....so much fail.

First off... level 3 Fame in Vunkerl. Arguing that as a road block is laughable at best. Go read the talk page for that quest if you don't understand why. You'd be surprised how quickly people hit level 2 fame in there without even knowing they've done anything to acquire fame. One can acquire level 3 fame with little more than 120 minutes of banked time from a decent xp party....if they are doing it sloppily.

Also, I guess you missed the additional statements about the NM's....soloable, or AT WORST LOW-MANNED OR 6-MAN PARTY. The new player doesn't necessarily have to be the one killing the mobs. Doink. I've routinely gone out and killed crap with my SMN or NIN for people. I solo and just have them sit there and watch.

That also brings me to another thought. Eventually...a new player will HAVE to avoid Aby content to focus on other things. There's level caps that will need to be done. There may be Fame building required. All sorts of things that can and will take them away from Abyssea. Or, as another posted, they may opt to not even go in at 30. They can log the quest to start stone generation, then go off and do other things for a bit before getting into abyssea. They will generate stones at roughly 8 or 9 per real life week even with no abyssites to enhance them (and when they get the abyssites to enhance regeneration, things get recalculated and they pick up free stones).

And (as already mentioned), when they do start doing abyssea, chances are they may not be going in there willy-nilly solo as gimped level 60's trying to kill level 80 mobs or something like that. They will likely be doing something like going with others to help them out in some fashion: leeching, going in there with a group for a generic xp party or other specific purpose like farming their needed abyssites, seals, feet, NM pops, Boss pops, boss fights, Caturae kills, etc. Such groups will be building lights if they want to get TE's and such. Basically, if they are DOING IT RIGHT....there will be no issue with stones.

Oh yeah, in case you missed it, many pops can be bought on AH (like the Great Root for the tree that grants a Sojourn--killed this thing countless times for people as a Duo using my NIN or SMN...just saying, it's not that hard to do a lot of this stuff if you've made friends). Those that can't be found on the AH can be acquired from chests along the way, or <gasp> farmed in advance with a group or someone else can do the legwork and help you out. Need to think a bit before you jump the shark with your arguments.

This whole conversation about Abyssea is just further evidence of what is wrong with this game.

More and more, it seems it is the PLAYER that needs to be fixed and NOT the game design.

Regardless of how much these simple issues have been flushed out not only with in-game dialogues, player assistance in game, partnership sites providing detailed writeups and guides, heck.. even SE has provided documentation for some issues with a complete site dedicated to tutorials.....people still, for some bizarre reason, are not grasping the concepts (or maybe refusing to because it involves some level of effort?). Brings to mind something that is often joked about in the service industry:


Poor planning on your part does not necessitate an emergency on our part

Seriously. Getting gil in this game is not such a ghastly task as some of you are making it out to be. You can NPC stacks of crab meat for upwards of 3k a stack. Crab shells can turn some nice pocket change too. If you craft a little, you can make even bigger scores. For instance, if you manage to get your hands on ice crystals, can cheaply convert ROCK SALT into a popular NIN tool and make profits npc'ing them (or AH it for more if you can use AH). Lots of items that give crummy NPC prices turn better rewards at the guilds instead. There are repeatable quests for common items like treant bulbs, tiger fangs, bat wings....all kinds of things you get just xp-ing or farting around. And yes, just like gil, most of what goes on in Abyssea is not such a chore either.

At this late stage of this game, more often than not, progress is actually quite simple and very streamlined if you do a little light research, or at least (heaven forbid) ask your in-game peeps for assistance.

[/rant]

[Jackstin]

I wouldn't agree with the term 'light research' as the biggest problem with this game is that it doesn't communicate enough. However I agree with the rest.

People are in such a rush to catch up with the people who have been playing years and years. If you run out of stones....do something else. There's a ridiculous amount of stuff to do in this game.

Abyssea is endgame, treat it as such.

[Nephilipitou]

New players here's what you do. Hit level 18 while you learn the game and find someone to help you with your sub job quest or just keep leveling up until you can solo it. If there's a Valkruum Dunes party all the easier.

Hit level 30-35 however you want Gusgen Mines or no Gusgen Mines. If you do Gusgen Mines take the time afterwards to kill a Fly Agaric till you hit about 80-100 in skill preferably closer to 100 in skill or go unlock a new job that might interest you more than the starter jobs.

Start the Abyssea expansion quest so your stones start ticking.

http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Joachim Do that quest line till you hit Dawn of Death.

Start over again with sub jobs you will need, leveling those up, or with advanced jobs that interest you greatly.

Then go level up further. Even if it means going to Crawler's Nest go do it. Kill those Crawlers and Bees until you can't. Do it until you hit 50, then go do your limit break, then 55 go do your limit break, 60 go do your limit break, 70 go do your big game limit break. If you can't beat it, then go level up Thief, WHM or any other job with an easier limit break.

Once you hit around the 60s though you can opt for Bostineaux Obliette if you desire a change of pace, but then again there are other options too but this is the basic stuff that a lot of people do so there's more of a chance to find people doing those. It really helps to do Bostineax Obliette for the last few levels to hit 70 because you get this thing from the Grounds Tomes called Prowess. This will increase your magic and combat skill ups which means you'll have a much quicker time getting skilled up for your limit break past the 70s so do them as long as you can, and get those skillups.

See how few times you've been to Abyssea? Sweet now here comes the real part. Ask your LS mates to keep an eye out for a Worms party, and go join Abyssea La Theine worms party. Get some merits, level up but most importantly get a couple hours of time to do stuff with your LS in La Theine and learn the ropes get some basics done.