Coalition Voting Suggestion

[Karbuncle]

This was suggest elsewhere, but i cannot find who suggested it or what thread. But I think it needs to be restated because now, several days since the last evaluation, the same problem exists.

I walk around to every Coalition, and the top suggestion is always winning "Not by much" (which in Adoulin Terms apparently means a couple thousand votes or something)... This is generally the Flag, or in cases of Flag already being owned, the Signboard.

I, as well as many others (talking ~50-100 people) have spent the "tags" we earned since Sunday spamming Peacekeeper's Coalition for A chance to chose Signboard, so far, its never budged an inch from Flag. I know 50~100 Is not a lot in terms of an entire server, But when you consider you actually getting that many people to conciously work on upgrading a coalition, and they cant even dent the outcome because of the countless Button-mashers who have no idea what their vote goes too simply spamming enter to collect their ~500~1800 Balyd... its a saddening revelation that the entirety of progression is going to be determined by whats on the top of the list.

With that said - The actually suggestion.

Default the top option to be "Abstain", Forfeiting your vote. With this, those who actually care what their votes go to and why its important to chose wisely can succeed in improving the Coalition... While those who don't care can throw away their vote like they always do, except this time its not going to impact the rest of us negatively.

Nothing is more depressing or pointless than spending the better half of 5 days working on the same coalition with dozens of players only to find out you aren't making any progress whatsoever.

Please, please, make the top/default option "abstain". Make it actually feel like those of us paying attention and working are making a difference.

As of now, there are apparently about 7 Upgrades, though only 3 currently available, and consider all Coalitions dont rank up simultaneously, without this option, it could be several weeks, worst case scenario months, before those working on improving a specific guild item see fruits of their labor, and will only see it once the option they want is the only one remaining or the top option.

This is not so much a "WE'LL NEVER GET IT" so much as an option i feel is needed, or we may as well do away with the voting system entirely because as it stands now, without the option, it may as well just be randomly selected on leveling up, cause our votes dont matter in this current system.

Sum it up: Nothing is more infuriating and depressing than to know your votes mean nothing to the ocean of Button mashers, and without a default "None" or "Abstain" option, voting is useless.

[Muras]

I was just thinking about this today. I was thinking maybe they should randomise the order the options appear for voting, but adding an Abstain option works too. Either way, I totally agree on this topic and something should be done.

[Limecat]

That would be a really good idea. I was baffled that lolcrystaldroprate was winning over increased synth skillups over at the inventor's coalition, then I realized people were probably just spamming the first option.

[Sparthos]

Please.

If you aren't paying attention enough to read what each vote does, you shouldn't be voting. I also suggest before voting the NPC says explicitly what the vote counts towards in pink colored text.

[Camiie]

Are you sure they're button mashers? They could be old folks from Florida. You know how they are with voting.

Seriously though I like your idea, Karb. They need to do something to prevent the inattentive and uninformed from affecting the vote, or as Sparth said, make it glaringly obvious what will be affected by the vote.

[sweetidealism]

The original thread can be found here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/31792-Coalition-Expansion-votes). :D

+1'd. Thanks for helping give the issue more publicity.

[Sfchakan]

http://imghumour.com/assets/Uploads/Seal-of-approval.jpg

It has been frustrating seeing that every dim or lazy person just tears down any progress towards what most educated players are working towards.

[Mirage]

Making the default selection "none" or "abstain" is a good idea. Make it happen, SE!

[Shadax]

While making "abstain" the default option would help with the immediate problem, I think they need to have an extra line of dialogue or two that explains what exactly a vote does and then have a yes/no confirmation afterward to solve this issue in the long run.

[Andreja]

Yeah I second this idea. I've been working my tail off with the peacekeepers doing lair reives, and now patrol, to put in votes for the signboard. God knows I wouldn't be doing those over and over again without that armor. It is definitely frustrating that people would just spam the enter button without even thinking what they're voting for, and pretty much gives us legitimate voters who care for the outcome the middle finger. If we were to put in a yes/no confirmation suggested by the above poster, make the default option no.

[Karbuncle]

Thank all of you for your support in this matter, i knew i couldnt be the only one bashing my head into a wall over this.

As for the "Tell them what the vote is for", This is a great idea... Like with Abstain, I wish it wasn't neccessary, But i think that would be good too. However, the default option should remain "Abstain" with no confirmation. if they want to scroll down and check what the votes do, they can get a rundown and an "Are you sure" with it. So in a way both could work.

I think from a time standpoint, the "none" or "Abstain" option would be significantly easier, an less redundant (Theres an NPC three feet to the right that tells you what the votes do... people are just too lazy). Not even in the least trying to discount your idea, I like it, in fact if they did that, I'd accept it as a good alternative, and while it wont stop all the ENTER ENTER ENTER going ENTER ENTER UPKEY ENTER, It'll help.

If they do go this option, default "Are you sure?" on "no" so spamming enter wont just be a matter of hitting "enter" one more time. so at the very least they'll have to put enough gas in their brains to figure out why spamming enter isnt working >_>

[Arkista]

We need to get more people on this cause ive been spamming tags all week and voting for Signboard with a lot of other people and Flag is still leading idk if that's cause it won last week or if its what people have voted for. Maybe they should put Signboard in slot number one and flag at bottom.

[SpankWustler]

Default the top option to be "Abstain", Forfeiting your vote. With this, those who actually care what their votes go to and why its important to chose wisely can succeed in improving the Coalition... While those who don't care can throw away their vote like they always do, except this time its not going to impact the rest of us negatively.


http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4010/4416673228_a2f3d48814.jpg


Also, as for explaining voting options, there's a Civil Register not ten yalms away from each NPC who handles voting. The Civil Registers are broken, lonely pencil-pushers who exist only to explain things about their respective coalitions and cry themselves to sleep at night.

I agree that it would have been better if the same NPC had simply explained each vote in a confirmation message during the voting process, however. If nothing else, it would add one final attempt to pile guilt onto each and every soul who votes for pickier pickaxes as hordes did last week.

[Luvbunny]

Can they just get rid of this voting crap completely. it does not work in WoTG, it will not work in SoA. SE need to SIMPLIFY things in the game and no need to over complicate every single things. We all know, our decision does not matter when it comes to FFXI. One thing does though, our wallet and our ability to either support or not supporting the game :)

[Ophannus]

While making "abstain" the default option would help with the immediate problem, I think they need to have an extra line of dialogue or two that explains what exactly a vote does and then have a yes/no confirmation afterward to solve this issue in the long run.

I really wish NPCs would do this instead of acting like a bad girlfriend and being upset about my choice no matter which one I pick.

[Alhanelem]

This was suggest elsewhere, but i cannot find who suggested it or what thread. But I think it needs to be restated because now, several days since the last evaluation, the same problem exists.

I walk around to every Coalition, and the top suggestion is always winning "Not by much" (which in Adoulin Terms apparently means a couple thousand votes or something)... This is generally the Flag, or in cases of Flag already being owned, the Signboard.

I, as well as many others (talking ~50-100 people) have spent the "tags" we earned since Sunday spamming Peacekeeper's Coalition for A chance to chose Signboard, so far, its never budged an inch from Flag. I know 50~100 Is not a lot in terms of an entire server, But when you consider you actually getting that many people to conciously work on upgrading a coalition, and they cant even dent the outcome because of the countless Button-mashers who have no idea what their vote goes too simply spamming enter to collect their ~500~1800 Balyd... its a saddening revelation that the entirety of progression is going to be determined by whats on the top of the list.

With that said - The actually suggestion.

Default the top option to be "Abstain", Forfeiting your vote. With this, those who actually care what their votes go to and why its important to chose wisely can succeed in improving the Coalition... While those who don't care can throw away their vote like they always do, except this time its not going to impact the rest of us negatively.

Nothing is more depressing or pointless than spending the better half of 5 days working on the same coalition with dozens of players only to find out you aren't making any progress whatsoever.

Please, please, make the top/default option "abstain". Make it actually feel like those of us paying attention and working are making a difference.

As of now, there are apparently about 7 Upgrades, though only 3 currently available, and consider all Coalitions dont rank up simultaneously, without this option, it could be several weeks, worst case scenario months, before those working on improving a specific guild item see fruits of their labor, and will only see it once the option they want is the only one remaining or the top option.

This is not so much a "WE'LL NEVER GET IT" so much as an option i feel is needed, or we may as well do away with the voting system entirely because as it stands now, without the option, it may as well just be randomly selected on leveling up, cause our votes dont matter in this current system.

Sum it up: Nothing is more infuriating and depressing than to know your votes mean nothing to the ocean of Button mashers, and without a default "None" or "Abstain" option, voting is useless.
I agree that your solution would weed out all the "press enter as fast as possible til NPC chat stops" people. :p

As an alternative to abstaining, they could also randomize the order of the items in the list each time. that way no votes are thrown away, there's no chance that nobody votes at all (unlikely I know but still), and actual opinions will still likely come through. Just throwing an idea in there, but your solution works just fine as well.

[Yinnyth]

Imagine for a second that everytime you change jobs and exit your mog house, the "Do you want to set your home point?" question randomized the position of "yes" and "no", so you had to actually read it instead of doing what we all instinctively do at this point in the game.

Randomization in option lists adds a layer of frustration to the game which has not yet been explored by SE, and I pray they never hear of because they might just do it. "Abstain" is the correct solution to this mess. Not only does it make it harder for you to accidentally place your vote wrong, but it also makes it so every person who actually cares what they vote for has a stronger vote.

(less junk votes chosen completely at random means a group of people making a conscious decision can more easily tip the scales).

[Sfchakan]

"Abstain" is the correct solution to this mess. Not only does it make it harder for you to accidentally place your vote wrong, but it also makes it so every person who actually cares what they vote for has a stronger vote.

This is the very strength of Karbuncle's suggestion.

[sweetidealism]

Is there a chance a community rep could merge this thread with the one I had created? (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/31792-Coalition-Expansion-votes)

I'm glad the issue is getting more attention now, but it's weird having the discussion be broken across two threads. Even though the original isn't really active anymore, there are still good suggestions in there!

On a side note-- my linkshell and I have been spamming peacekeepers' tasks all week. We even each ranked up to Probationers! Yet despite an entire week's worth of voting for the signboard, there was just no pushing it over the top. I guess, ultimately, it just means we have to wait an extra week to get our new body and headpieces, as soon Signboard will be on top of the list... but we wanted them now! :(

[Alhanelem]

Imagine for a second that everytime you change jobs and exit your mog house, the "Do you want to set your home point?" question randomized the position of "yes" and "no", so you had to actually read it instead of doing what we all instinctively do at this point in the game.

Randomization in option lists adds a layer of frustration to the game which has not yet been explored by SE, and I pray they never hear of because they might just do it. "Abstain" is the correct solution to this mess. Not only does it make it harder for you to accidentally place your vote wrong, but it also makes it so every person who actually cares what they vote for has a stronger vote.

(less junk votes chosen completely at random means a group of people making a conscious decision can more easily tip the scales).
Fair point.

About that last bit, I guess I would have to agree, though I'd also be slightly concerned about resting the decision on a small number of people (especially years down the road when fewer ppl are participating in the colonization).

[Raksha]

While I agree in principle, a few weeks from now everything will be unlocked and nobody will care any more.

Best option would just be to suck it up and try to figure out how to pop naakuals (or however its spelled) and find good sources of Simulacra parts.

[Alhanelem]

While I agree in principle, a few weeks from now everything will be unlocked and nobody will care any more.

Until the system falls into obscurity and everything re-locks. :p

(Look at WotG shadow lord battle, where a handful of hardcore players pushed to unlock the battle, they played the crap out of it the 1 week it was available, got what they wanted, then they stopped caring and it never became accessible again)

[Karbuncle]

While I agree in principle, a few weeks from now everything will be unlocked and nobody will care any more.

Best option would just be to suck it up and try to figure out how to pop naakuals (or however its spelled) and find good sources of Simulacra parts.

I did mentoin this in my OP, But, You severely underestimate how long its going to take. Each coalition has ~8 Upgrades as of now. There are 6 Coalitions. Now take into consideration 2 weeks in, on Asura, there's still 2 Coalitions at rank 0, and only 1 at rank 2. Not all Coalitions being able to level up, and most people too stupid to realize there are more coalitions than Pioneer's (Which explains its rank2)... It could take several months before the objects a person wants is available due to the overwhelming uneducated or uncaring masses. They need to introduce this sooner rather than later.


Fair point.

About that last bit, I guess I would have to agree, though I'd also be slightly concerned about resting the decision on a small number of people (especially years down the road when fewer ppl are participating in the colonization).

I agree with you in concept, but theres a flaw to the "Small control" aspect. Everyone has the option to use their vote, so nothing is being controlled by a "Small number of people", those people are only limited and expanded by the level of people who care about their vote.

Its not being controlled by a "Small number of people", These people are the ones who care what their vote goes for. It could be done by a "large number of people" if those people previously button mashing realized what the votes were good for and chose them wisely.

The only people giving the small group power are those who couldn't care less about their vote anyway :)

[Sargent]

You mean you guys don't want Coalition Weapons?!?!

Seriously, this is an excellent idea.

[Karbuncle]

On a serious note of mention, Tally just flew by, On Asura, 4 Guilds upgraded... Their upgrades?

All of them upgraded to the top option on their list. Despite effort from a lot of players.

This is the same for every server that I've heard from so far. Please help SE :(, as it stands you had a great idea, but due to the intelligence of your average player, voting plays no purpose in the game as the top option always wins -.-

[Mindi]

i am not even sure if the voting system even works... like 10 seconds after tally i talked to the NPC and it told me, signboard is winning.. however not by much. i HIGHLY doubt anyone completed a task in that short time (and all in the room were at the gear NPC's) and the message was instant that Signboard wins (after we got flag). So either something is wrong or the choises from last week stay.

[Sfchakan]

They could have waited until tally to turn in tasks and voted for Signboard on their way to the NPC.

[Alhanelem]

On a serious note of mention, Tally just flew by, On Asura, 4 Guilds upgraded... Their upgrades?

All of them upgraded to the top option on their list. Despite effort from a lot of players.

This is the same for every server that I've heard from so far. Please help SE :(, as it stands you had a great idea, but due to the intelligence of your average player, voting plays no purpose in the game as the top option always wins -.-
I wouldn't worry about it in the short term, at least. It's not like the first upgrade goes away when they level up again.

Still, this does need to be addressed- anybody could have predicted this outcome. :p

[Luvbunny]

Until the system falls into obscurity and everything re-locks. :p (Look at WotG shadow lord battle, where a handful of hardcore players pushed to unlock the battle, they played the crap out of it the 1 week it was available, got what they wanted, then they stopped caring and it never became accessible again)

We all know this will happen, give it a couple of months. The whole SoA will collapse into itself when the activities are abandoned. Whacking the roots are fun the first few times, not when that's all there is to it. People love action more than walking around, they should have more varieties in the "whacking" contents. Granted SoA has tons of good ideas, but the poor implementation is just beyond atrocious.

[Raksha]

Until the system falls into obscurity and everything re-locks. :p

(Look at WotG shadow lord battle, where a handful of hardcore players pushed to unlock the battle, they played the crap out of it the 1 week it was available, got what they wanted, then they stopped caring and it never became accessible again)


I'm guessing that you're joking since you added a smiley face tongue emoticon thing, but i'd just like to point out anyway that making abstain be the top option won't fix that problem.



I did mentoin this in my OP, But, You severely underestimate how long its going to take. Each coalition has ~8 Upgrades as of now. There are 6 Coalitions. Now take into consideration 2 weeks in, on Asura, there's still 2 Coalitions at rank 0, and only 1 at rank 2. Not all Coalitions being able to level up, and most people too stupid to realize there are more coalitions than Pioneer's (Which explains its rank2)... It could take several months before the objects a person wants is available due to the overwhelming uneducated or uncaring masses. They need to introduce this sooner rather than later.




Sure, like I said I agree with you in principle, but really this isnt that huge of a deal. I work retail so i have to deal with retards every day. You just kinda learn to live with it unfortunately.

[Alhanelem]

dear the three of you who dropped That's a tongue-stuck-out face, not so much an actual smiley face.

Yes, I realize I described a mostly separate issue.