Remove the knockback attacks in Rieves

[Alhanelem]

Seriously, this is just bullshiat. Get killed by a knockback attack, you still get knocked back and if you're pushed out of the area, you can't revive and get back in the reive area within 5 seconds. It's impossible, and you get kicked out of the reive and get banned for 10 minutes.

Remove the ban, remove the knockback, make the area bigger, do SOMETHING.:mad:

Sometimes you need to be near the edge of the battle area, because you were KOed and reraised, and you want to reduce your risk if dying again but you don't want to leave the battle.

[Fynlar]

You can clearly see what kind of mobs are in a reive before you join; if you know they have knockback moves then position yourself so that you won't get knocked out of range.

Fair, next

[Mifaco]

>position yourself so you don't get knocked back but still get hit by AOE attacks
>position yourself so you get hit by AOE attacks but don't get knocked back

BALANCE

[Demon6324236]

It is quite the problem.

[Bahamut]

lmao. I dont even have the expansion yet and checking forums looks like theres alot that needs fixing already.

[Luvbunny]

lmao. I dont even have the expansion yet and checking forums looks like theres alot that needs fixing already.

You have no idea how much it needs fixing.... It is seriously a craptacular spectacular updates, and a lot more people are going to get pissed off fairly soon if you are looking at other threads. Seriously we can't just pick and choose which Nest or Root we can whack, or progress will not be made and only "popular" spots will be "camped" and cleaned up rather fast leaving others with nothing to do for an hour, running around in circle finding a repop. Just be glad you don't have the expansion yet.

[Karah]

Wait wait wait wait... the guy who white knights EVERYTHING SE does, is upset about something SE designed... has the world flipped upside down? (he is right though, I never thought I would say that)

[Fynlar]

Wait wait wait wait... the guy who white knights EVERYTHING SE does, is upset about something SE designed... has the world flipped upside down?

I was hoping someone else besides me would catch on to that.

[Kojo]

lmao. I dont even have the expansion yet and checking forums looks like theres alot that needs fixing already.

It's unfinished, in progress. Look at it as Seekers of Adoulin beta at the moment.

[Luvbunny]

Cross your fingers that they will update this by the weekend. Seems like they are quite fast with adjustment - so hopefully all those pet enmity issue and mages getting more hate than usual will be fixed in a week or so at the very latest.

[Kojo]

Cross your fingers that they will update this by the weekend. Seems like they are quite fast with adjustment - so hopefully all those pet enmity issue and mages getting more hate than usual will be fixed in a week or so at the very latest.

I soloed a bit with jug pets just to see how bad it was and I learned two things; 1. The hate issue IS bad. 2. My BST's accuracy IS bad.

I hope they add new jug pets, like a Chapulli or Twythrem.

[Luvbunny]

Are you wearing accuracy gears? Is your axe skill capped and fully merited? Do you use accuracy food? SoA mobs are brutal for people who speed level their jobs in Abyssea. You won't be able to survive for long if you have skills around 150-275s. Those mobs will resist your ninjutsu or enfeeble fairly easy. They also strip your shadows very fast and render evasion gear somewhat moot. On a bright note, Defense is a big factor now - you get high defense, those mobs will hit you in the low 20-50s.

[Alhanelem]

>position yourself so you don't get knocked back but still get hit by AOE attacks
>position yourself so you get hit by AOE attacks but don't get knocked back

BALANCE
The problem is even if you position yourself for the mob you're fighting, other nearby mobs being fought by other people can still knock you back. Also if you're trying to get up, yes you can time it to be after a TP move, but again, you can't always predict how every single monster is going to act.

Knockback attacks and miniscule battle zones should not be paired up together.

Also being banned from rieves for 10 minutes for leaving the battle zone for 5 seconds is bullshiat too. Yes you can ditch the restriction by zoning but that still wastes time.

[Sfchakan]

I think the range, once under status, should be increased. There's no room for mages to safely involve themselves and there's no room to recover if KO'd.

[Kojo]

Are you wearing accuracy gears? Is your axe skill capped and fully merited? Do you use accuracy food? SoA mobs are brutal for people who speed level their jobs in Abyssea. You won't be able to survive for long if you have skills around 150-275s. Those mobs will resist your ninjutsu or enfeeble fairly easy. They also strip your shadows very fast and render evasion gear somewhat moot. On a bright note, Defense is a big factor now - you get high defense, those mobs will hit you in the low 20-50s.

Pearl except head and legs, no not capped, BST is a utility job for me, so I didn't merit axes.

[Mirage]

A thread by Alhanelem I can agree with? Well, color me surprised!

[Duzell]

...
Also being banned from rieves for 10 minutes for leaving the battle zone for 5 seconds is bullshiat too. Yes you can ditch the restriction by zoning but that still wastes time.

Don't mention we can do that, they'll "fix it".

[saevel]

So yeah ... all you people who ran around trumpeting how SoA would magically create a "new endgame" and radically alter everything we do.

Yeah it's broke as sh!t just like I said it would be. It'll take them three to six months to get it remotely correct, then another two years to finish it. Or did everyone miss WoTG.

[Luvbunny]

So yeah ... all you people who ran around trumpeting how SoA would magically create a "new endgame" and radically alter everything we do.Yeah it's broke as sh!t just like I said it would be. It'll take them three to six months to get it remotely correct, then another two years to finish it. Or did everyone miss WoTG.

I dunno man, I get tons of heat here in the forum for being critical and pointing out what is wrong with SoA and the fact we are paying for playing a beta version. The good thing is they are pretty quick with adjusting, so maybe it will be playable and fun in a month or two at least? At the end it is up to entire player base though, they abandoned WoTG rather fast and no progress is being made in that areas. Lots of BCNM are inaccessible in WoTG due to no one doing beastmen lair. And you can't really progress in SoA without the entire faction quests being taken and advanced.

[Alhanelem]

So yeah ... all you people who ran around trumpeting how SoA would magically create a "new endgame" and radically alter everything we do.

Yeah it's broke as sh!t just like I said it would be. It'll take them three to six months to get it remotely correct, then another two years to finish it. Or did everyone miss WoTG.
I wouldn't really call rieves "endgame." I think we've got some time to wait, never said we wouldn't.

You don't release all your content at once or people will grow bored too fast.

[Luvbunny]

I wouldn't really call rieves "endgame." I think we've got some time to wait, never said we wouldn't. You don't release all your content at once or people will grow bored too fast.

That early phase 1 endgame is out there:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/31416-Otherworldly-Skirmishes

Accessing it seems not yet known, need to whack more roots to find out. With the current reives still under testing, and enmity not yet adjusted, less players will venture out, which could mean locking this content out for awhile. Let's not forget WoTG, a couple of BCNMs are no longer accessible ever since no one is doing anything in the past.

[Horadrim]

Wait wait wait wait... the guy who white knights EVERYTHING SE does, is upset about something SE designed... has the world flipped upside down? (he is right though, I never thought I would say that)

...

http://s3.amazonaws.com/mfw-production/image_post/140/medium/143.jpg

Grow up.
Being reasonable and supportive against a historically hyper negative community doesn't make you a white knight. The only reason that's even a term is because FFXI players are so unreasonably negative about EVERYTHING that as soon as you try to present a logically passive or hopeful position you're suddenly trying to pretend you're SE-Man Savior of the Vanadielaverse.

Over the years I've seen him here and on KI, Alhanelem has been plenty judgmental and negative when there's justification to be -- he just also has the mental capacity to be passive and patient with the development of the game.. which you'd expect (but surprisingly don't get) of anyone who's been at it for as long as I assume he has (which is likely as long as I have.)

All of that is to say, cut the BS. It is bad enough that we have to deal with SE developing and releasing content blindly without even playing the game to understand what it needs -- we don't need everyone in the community shamelessly attacking each other like it benefits ANYONE at all. I know I'm guilty of it myself, but at least I'm willing to admit that it is stupid, adolescent behavior and aspire to get past it.

If you don't have a productive response (be it for or against what someone has to say), GTFO. We don't need more drama and BS, we've got 10 years of backlog we're trudging through already.

On Topic:

I've never really liked knockback as a mechanic at all... with FFXI's dated engine it has always felt a bit trite.

[Karah]

Sorry, but you look at the last 1000~ posts by him, every single one of them previous was blindly agreeing with and arguing against anything a player complained/posted about.

Regardless of what was said prior to that, that qualifies you as "white knight" and deserves every little bit of mockery that comes with it.

However, not related to the topic, so should not continue this, (no point anyway you're wrong).

Relevant:

Never been a fan of knockback moves, but it's a logical mechanic. It's an effective method of spell interruption and one of the only ways to interrupt mob bards (enemies cause their resist silence actually works....) etc, its the range of the battlefield that should be adjusted, not the logical mechanic.

[Horadrim]

Sorry, but you look at the last 1000~ posts by him, every single one of them previous was blindly agreeing with and arguing against anything a player complained/posted about.

Regardless of what was said prior to that, that qualifies you as "white knight" and deserves every little bit of mockery that comes with it.

However, not related to the topic, so should not continue this, (no point anyway you're wrong).

Relevant:

Never been a fan of knockback moves, but it's a logical mechanic. It's an effective method of spell interruption and one of the only ways to interrupt mob bards (enemies cause their resist silence actually works....) etc, its the range of the battlefield that should be adjusted, not the logical mechanic.

Yeah, because that's the whole point of what I said. You're a useful person and we need more of you in this world. Definitely.

If the justification for Knockback is the spell interruption component they could easily apply mostly the same animations and mechanics, but remove the actual movement and just call it "stagger." Same goal achieved minus the annoyance of getting flung in disorienting fashion on a game which always seemed to have in-battle movement operate as an after thought (there's something to be said about how oddly the game handles movement during combat even to this day.)

[Karah]

Don't know about you, but if something is trying to kill me, whatever it is, the logical thing to do is keep it at distance. (or try to kill it better than it can kill you lol)

That's what knockback is, the logical action of a foe. As I said, I can't stand knockback, I very much despise having to adjust my mule's distance when main gets knocked back, but I understand why it's there.

[Horadrim]

Don't know about you, but if something is trying to kill me, whatever it is, the logical thing to do is keep it at distance. (or try to kill it better than it can kill you lol)

That's what knockback is, the logical action of a foe. As I said, I can't stand knockback, I very much despise having to adjust my mule's distance when main gets knocked back, but I understand why it's there.

If you go at a tiger with a dagger, I have my distinct doubts it is going to try and push you away before it goes for your throat. Same with any wild animal -- maybe they'll try to run away if they are losing, but that's a different thing entirely.

Arguably, the "stagger" effect I outlined above fills the same purpose you proposed for knockback, but without the inconvenience of ruining your orientation the way the knock back currently does. I mean -- it is sort of a whatever most of the time, but when there's an invisible ring that can get you banned from an event like the way reives work, there's more reason to find an alternative to achieve the goal of disrupting ability and spell activation than there is in support of its use.

People can say "don't stand near the edge of the reive line" but it is pretty easy to run out of space if you're trying to avoid just standing directly on top of other people.

[Karah]

http://i48.tinypic.com/2w6tama.jpg

Knocking someone out of the assigned combat area is not a new thing, get over it.

Make the battlefield larger, not eliminate knock back /thread.

[Alhanelem]

...

http://s3.amazonaws.com/mfw-production/image_post/140/medium/143.jpg

Grow up.
Being reasonable and supportive against a historically hyper negative community doesn't make you a white knight. The only reason that's even a term is because FFXI players are so unreasonably negative about EVERYTHING that as soon as you try to present a logically passive or hopeful position you're suddenly trying to pretend you're SE-Man Savior of the Vanadielaverse.

Over the years I've seen him here and on KI, Alhanelem has been plenty judgmental and negative when there's justification to be -- he just also has the mental capacity to be passive and patient with the development of the game.. which you'd expect (but surprisingly don't get) of anyone who's been at it for as long as I assume he has (which is likely as long as I have.)

All of that is to say, cut the BS. It is bad enough that we have to deal with SE developing and releasing content blindly without even playing the game to understand what it needs -- we don't need everyone in the community shamelessly attacking each other like it benefits ANYONE at all. I know I'm guilty of it myself, but at least I'm willing to admit that it is stupid, adolescent behavior and aspire to get past it.

If you don't have a productive response (be it for or against what someone has to say), GTFO. We don't need more drama and BS, we've got 10 years of backlog we're trudging through already.

On Topic:

I've never really liked knockback as a mechanic at all... with FFXI's dated engine it has always felt a bit trite.
Thanks for being a voice of reason.


Sorry, but you look at the last 1000~ posts by him, every single one of them previous was blindly agreeing with and arguing against anything a player complained/posted about.This is completely untrue. Not regularly having the popular opinion doesn't make me a white knight. I've agreed and disagreed with all kinds of different things- and not just for the sake of doing so. I really feel like you just need someone to pick on.

I do not blindly defend anyone or anything. I have reasoning behind every post I make. I'm really tired of being bashed just because I post a lot. All of the comments and opinions I post are genuine. I'm not here to troll, I'm not here to argue for the sake of it, I'm here because I care about the things that are being discussed and have a genuine interest in the game and it's future. If you can't accept that, then you should block list me now instead of continuing to attack me.

Apparently to not be a white knight I have to blindly join in agreeing with every SE bash thread and agreeing with every suggestion everyone makes. To do otherwise makes one a white knight apparently.


Knocking someone out of the assigned combat area is not a new thing, get over it.This is not a tournament fighter arena. This is a battle to colonize the wilderness. In reality there would be no hard-line battle area boundry at all. the countdown and ban is there to punish people who bail out of a Rieve- not to allow the opponents to win a battle by a referee calling "RING OUT!"

(Now, I don't see why someone would argue against the premise of this thread personally, but you don't see me attacking them or calling them a white knight just because their opinion differs from mine- I respect the fact that different people will have different opinions on issues.)

[Karah]

(Now, I don't see why someone would argue against the premise of this thread personally)

I did agree with you, on page one, that a change indeed needs to be made, however, knockback is not the way to go about this.

FFXI has had knock back since day one in the form of Goblin Rush (as far as I can recall) they didn't just add it for Reives it's not going to change, hate to be the barer of bad news.


This is not a tournament fighter arena. This is a battle to colonize the wilderness. In reality there would be no hard-line battle area boundry at all. the countdown and ban is there to punish people who bail out of a Rieve- not to allow the opponents to win a battle by a referee calling "RING OUT!"

Basically every (non-zone-wide) event that has been added since WotG has had a boundary line. Dynamis NMs, FoV NMs, Voidwatch, Level sync even has a "range" within where it's affects work, Spheres upon gear, Aura's, even Geo itself has boundaries inherent to it's job. It's the way the game is played now, within "Arena's" that do have (Ring-outs).

It is -literally- a battle arena, the Epitome of one in fact. Where the enemies can in fact defeat you with a Ring-out.

If you are fighting on the edge of the arena, you're the moron getting support jobs killed when you die (not you specifically... but you, as part of a group apparently) and you deserve to lose credit for that Reive.

That's not to say that a strategic retreat is sometimes necessary.

[Alhanelem]

Basically every (non-zone-wide) event that has been added since WotG has had a boundary line.I understand this, but most of these battles give you plenty of room. Also, these battles are not intiated by a party and shouldn't be subject to such rules. Campaign battles worked fine without a radius you couldnt step out of. The only reason that's a problem here is because there are multiple seperate battles occuring potentially at the same time.

You of all people should understand that you can't always get everyone to cooperate with you, and you can end up getting pushed out/kicked out

But for me the main issue is when a knockback attack kills you- MOST of the time if you're just knocked back, you can run back inside just fine. the problem is mostly when you die- you can not raise up and get back in within 5 seconds.

Like I said, I can understand punishing people for abandoning a rieve, but 99% of the people getting slapped with 10 minute bans were not trying to flee the area.

I don't care much for the specific method of addressing the issue, as long as something is done to make it a little more forgiving. It would also help a lot if the battle area was actually clearly marked instead of having to feel around for the edge of it. A line needs to be drawn between players trying to abuse the system (thus deserving the ban) and those who accidentally leave/are pushed out of the area.

(10 seconds? 30 seconds? warning radius then a larger actual ban radius? Exempt KO'd players from the 5 second rule?)


It is -literally- a battle arena, the Epitome of one in fact. Where the enemies can in fact defeat you with a Ring-out.The thing is, while it is, it really shouldn't be. it doesn't make any sort of in-world logical lore or gameplay sense. So you could say I agree with you in terms of the way things technically are currently- just not how they should be, in my humble opinion. :)

[Fishyface]

Thanks for being a voice of reason.

This is completely untrue. Not regularly having the popular opinion doesn't make me a white knight. I've agreed and disagreed with all kinds of different things- and not just for the sake of doing so. I really feel like you just need someone to pick on.

I do not blindly defend anyone or anything. I have reasoning behind every post I make. I'm really tired of being bashed just because I post a lot. All of the comments and opinions I post are genuine. I'm not here to troll, I'm not here to argue for the sake of it, I'm here because I care about the things that are being discussed and have a genuine interest in the game and it's future. If you can't accept that, then you should block list me now instead of continuing to attack me.

Apparently to not be a white knight I have to blindly join in agreeing with every SE bash thread and agreeing with every suggestion everyone makes. To do otherwise makes one a white knight apparently.

This is not a tournament fighter arena. This is a battle to colonize the wilderness. In reality there would be no hard-line battle area boundry at all. the countdown and ban is there to punish people who bail out of a Rieve- not to allow the opponents to win a battle by a referee calling "RING OUT!"

(Now, I don't see why someone would argue against the premise of this thread personally, but you don't see me attacking them or calling them a white knight just because their opinion differs from mine- I respect the fact that different people will have different opinions on issues.)

Ok i don't really post on these forums but ive just got to say, yes you are white knight. You white knight ALL OVER THE PLACE. I dont usually mind that but there is one thing you say that you need to stop saying, and i will explain why. I will paraphrase it because it doesn't seem like you said it this time (which is good)

"Well, they don't have to fix it"

Yes you are right they dont have to do anything. BUT heres the thing, saying "well they don't have to fix it " in 2003 is alot different from 2013. In 2003 there was hardly any alternatives to this game. You have basically ultima online, everquest, lineage and that was about it. Meaning you can get away with mechanics that arn't fun to the populace and still have a game everyone wants to play.

That is no longer the case. There are hundreds of alternatives to FFXI now. Things like bugs, improperly implemented game mechanics, and horrifying grinds can actually make someone quit and never return.

So if SE would like to keep what little insignificant amount of the market they still have these days, they need to listen to the people griping the most and get their feedback. As they usually the people who are the most fed up with the game. And in the end SE will make changes, because they have to in order to keep people playing.

Just telling people "Well, they don't have to fix it" is a very ignorant way to look at things and makes you come off as being incredibly bias.

Ok i've said what i want to say. All i'm asking you to do is think about what your actually saying and compare it how things are now. Think about how the current mmo market is and how small mistakes such as implementing a different way of communicating with players can cause an IMMENSE backlash and lose hundreds of thousands of subs in other games.

FFXI isnt in its own bubble. It can and will be compared to standards in other mmos, you dont have to like it just stop acting like they dont have to fix anything.

Peace

[saevel]

I dunno man, I get tons of heat here in the forum for being critical and pointing out what is wrong with SoA and the fact we are paying for playing a beta version. The good thing is they are pretty quick with adjusting, so maybe it will be playable and fun in a month or two at least? At the end it is up to entire player base though, they abandoned WoTG rather fast and no progress is being made in that areas. Lots of BCNM are inaccessible in WoTG due to no one doing beastmen lair. And you can't really progress in SoA without the entire faction quests being taken and advanced.

Most people see everything from a players point of view, as we all know the developers don't really play and have a different PoV. They don't want people clearing content fast, the longer the content takes to be consumed the less it costs them to create it. So all these blocks are intentional, they want to slow the player base down with needlessly complicated / broken crap. It's a fine line they gotta walk, make it too bad and the product will sink, make it too good and everyone will complain for more after they've consumed it. What they do is run basic numbers "Player will do X event Y number of times for Z average reward". They then plan their drop rates / reward requirements around how long they want that "average" player to take. Some will be faster, others will be slower, but essentially their looking at how long it takes 50% of the player base to consume something. And that is why they always make things hard initially, they knew exactly what it would do, they just wanted to buy more time.

[saevel]

FFXI isnt in its own bubble. It can and will be compared to standards in other mmos, you dont have to like it just stop acting like they dont have to fix anything.

This is incredibly important. MMO's aren't traditional boxed games, their business model is more like a service. You want entertainment, they provide you entertainment for a price. If their entertainment is unsatisfactory then you (the customer) will seek out entertainment from another service provider. A MMO's success will always be about it's entertainment value.

[Spiritreaver]

Ok i don't really post on these forums but ive just got to say, yes you are white knight. You white knight ALL OVER THE PLACE. I dont usually mind that but there is one thing you say that you need to stop saying, and i will explain why. I will paraphrase it because it doesn't seem like you said it this time (which is good)

"Well, they don't have to fix it"

Yes you are right they dont have to do anything. BUT heres the thing, saying "well they don't have to fix it " in 2003 is alot different from 2013. In 2003 there was hardly any alternatives to this game. You have basically ultima online, everquest, lineage and that was about it. Meaning you can get away with mechanics that arn't fun to the populace and still have a game everyone wants to play.

That is no longer the case. There are hundreds of alternatives to FFXI now. Things like bugs, improperly implemented game mechanics, and horrifying grinds can actually make someone quit and never return.

So if SE would like to keep what little insignificant amount of the market they still have these days, they need to listen to the people griping the most and get their feedback. As they usually the people who are the most fed up with the game. And in the end SE will make changes, because they have to in order to keep people playing.

Just telling people "Well, they don't have to fix it" is a very ignorant way to look at things and makes you come off as being incredibly bias.

Ok i've said what i want to say. All i'm asking you to do is think about what your actually saying and compare it how things are now. Think about how the current mmo market is and how small mistakes such as implementing a different way of communicating with players can cause an IMMENSE backlash and lose hundreds of thousands of subs in other games.

FFXI isnt in its own bubble. It can and will be compared to standards in other mmos, you dont have to like it just stop acting like they dont have to fix anything.

Peace

Wish i could like this multiple times. Well said.
---------------------------------------

On-Topic:

Its been said elsewhere and here in this thread at least once that i saw, knockback isn't the real issue. The battlefields for Reives are just too confined across the board. They are like little double funnels of death.

Double the size of the battlefields(at least) and use the old boundary lines as a corral of sorts(think of the battlefield as a tennis court with the roots being the net. The singles out-of-bounds becomes the inner bound of the battlefield and the doubles OfB is pushed way back making the battlefield larger.) that Reive mobs can't cross unless they are actively engaged with a combatant(the inner bounds are one way. Players can pull mobs over the line, but mobs can not just wander over it). Throw in some auto-rr if the player has taken time to do quests for Reive KIs while your at it.

SE makes changes like these, and quickly, and the event can be saved IMO.

[Yenecol]

Just make the time to get back in longer than 5 seconds. I was once running around, a battlefield popped right on top of me, by the time I realized what was going on, I was out of the tiny area and 5 seconds were up. Great. I once ran to what I thought was the edge to rest. Turns out I was just outside the zone - 5 seconds doesn't even give you time to get up from a crouch to get back in.

Knockback isn't the problem - 5 seconds to get back in is.

[Sfchakan]

Knockback isn't the problem - 5 seconds to get back in is.

But if you get knocked back and KO'd out of the area, you lose status and your ability to gain rewards. That's fairly lame.

[Alhanelem]

Ok i don't really post on these forums but ive just got to say, yes you are white knight. You white knight ALL OVER THE PLACE.You don't know what a white knight is, apparently. White knighting is when you blindly defend something with no real reason or backing it up. I don't do that. White knighting would be if I went around to every single negative thing anyone had to say about anything and go "NUH UH! UR STOOPID, GAME IS PERFECT!"

Also, I don't know where you're pulling this "they don't' have to fix it" stuff from. Such comments are useless without context. The only thing remotely like this I ever say is when people complain about really small stuff when there's more important things that need doing. e.g. there's some major bugs in the game and I see people with these threads attempting to divert the dev's attention from larger issues. I realize that different things are important to different people, but the devs still have to set priorities.

Defending something with a reasonable argument and without a fanboi mentality is not white knighting. Also as demonstrated by this thread and many others, I have my fair share of complaints.


FFXI isnt in its own bubble. It can and will be compared to standards in other mmos, you dont have to like it just stop acting like they dont have to fix anything.I'm not sure where you got this from, but I don't do this at all. They do have to fix things. What do you think this thread is about? However, they have to set priorities, and we have to (okay, should be) realistic.

I shouldn't have to post something other than my actual opinion on an issue just for the sake of meeting some unknown quota of complaints or agreements with complaints in order to not be branded or labeled. These ad hominium attacks really need to stop.

As an aside: I'm tired of people acting like FFXI has to compete with WoW or the latest brand new MMO. Most of the people playing now are not that likely to be leaving this MMO for another. Most people I know of who quit an MMO they've played for many years don't play another one when they quit. your mileage may vary I suppose, but this is just what I've observed from people I've met over the years. Everquest 1 is still running. Ultima Online is still running. Runescape is still running. These games don't have huge playerbases anymore- but they don't need to have huge playerbases- as long as the game is running in the black, it will keep running. None of these games will take nor are they trying to take customers from newer games. FFXI is basically in this category now. This doesn't mean they have a license to do stupid things to upset the playerbase, of course- it's just some food for thought.

[Alhanelem]

But if you get knocked back and KO'd out of the area, you lose status and your ability to gain rewards. That's fairly lame.
This is the main issue for me, getting KO'd *by* a knockback is what really sucks. If nothing else, the time allowed to return to the battle zone needs to be extended, at least when you die, to at least 30 seconds or so.

I sort of understand why it's so short- the mobs have to stay in the battle area so they don't want to make it too easy to "leash" monsters out of the battle zone. That said, it doesn't make it any less frustrating.

(seperate post is to disconenct the other stuff from the real topic)

[Fishyface]

You don't know what a white knight is, apparently. White knighting is when you blindly defend something with no real reason or backing it up. I don't do that. White knighting would be if I went around to every single negative thing anyone had to say about anything and go "NUH UH! UR STOOPID, GAME IS PERFECT!"

Also, I don't know where you're pulling this "they don't' have to fix it" stuff from. Such comments are useless without context. The only thing remotely like this I ever say is when people complain about really small stuff when there's more important things that need doing. e.g. there's some major bugs in the game and I see people with these threads attempting to divert the dev's attention from larger issues. I realize that different things are important to different people, but the devs still have to set priorities.

Defending something with a reasonable argument and without a fanboi mentality is not white knighting. Also as demonstrated by this thread and many others, I have my fair share of complaints.

I'm not sure where you got this from, but I don't do this at all. They do have to fix things. What do you think this thread is about? However, they have to set priorities, and we have to (okay, should be) realistic.

I shouldn't have to post something other than my actual opinion on an issue just for the sake of meeting some unknown quota of complaints or agreements with complaints in order to not be branded or labeled. These ad hominium attacks really need to stop.

As an aside: I'm tired of people acting like FFXI has to compete with WoW or the latest brand new MMO. Most of the people playing now are not that likely to be leaving this MMO for another. Most people I know of who quit an MMO they've played for many years don't play another one when they quit. your mileage may vary I suppose, but this is just what I've observed from people I've met over the years. Everquest 1 is still running. Ultima Online is still running. Runescape is still running. These games don't have huge playerbases anymore- but they don't need to have huge playerbases- as long as the game is running in the black, it will keep running. None of these games will take nor are they trying to take customers from newer games. FFXI is basically in this category now. This doesn't mean they have a license to do stupid things to upset the playerbase, of course- it's just some food for thought.

The reason alot of people are fed up with how you post is you respond what it seems like every thread out there usually disagreeing with the position. This is what is getting you attacked.

Your allowed your freedom of speech but you need to realize you dont have to actually wade into the pool on nearly every issue and state your opinion. Keep that to the things that are most important to you.

Responding to each and every small change that someone wants with a "well they dont have to fix that" is what annoys people, and brands you as a white knight.

Stop doing that and respond to only major issues with a dissenting opinion and i bet alot of those attacks stop.

I honestly wouldnt have even bothered replying to this thread at all if you kept a lower profile and didnt draw so much criticism from alot of other people on the forum.

And your defintion of white knighting is taking to the extreme, people arnt an archetype and do not 100% act a certain way. The reason you are getting called a white knight is you seem to put your 2 cents into every single problem in the game. And a large percentage of the time you are disagreeing with the OP. When in reality you dont need to respond to every thread like that.

[Alhanelem]

The reason alot of people are fed up with how you post is you respond what it seems like every thread out there usually disagreeing with the position. This is what is getting you attacked. I don't "usually disagree." I disagree with things that i think are bad ideas or unnecessary. If someone posts a good idea or makes an intelligent comment I happily support it- and in such cases, usually with a 'Like' more than an actual comment.


And your defintion of white knighting is taking to the extreme,No, it's not taking to an extreme. That's what white knighting is. If you're not defending something, you can't be white knighting. That's what a white knight does, hence the meaning of the phrase.


Responding to each and every small change that someone wants with a "well they dont have to fix that" is what annoys people, and brands you as a white knight. Again you say this, but I don't actually do that.


Stop doing that and respond to only major issues with a dissenting opinion and i bet alot of those attacks stop.In other words, I have to either not comment, or blindly agree with everything I see in order to not be branded. Got it.

Blindly agreeing is just as bad as white knighting. *You* along with everyone else here needs to stop acting as if I disagree just to disagree- this is not the case, has never been the case, and will never be the case.

[Yenecol]

But if you get knocked back and KO'd out of the area, you lose status and your ability to gain rewards. That's fairly lame.So the time to get back in should be enough for a person with reraise to be able to get up and walk back in. I still think the problem is 5 seconds is too short.

[Yinnyth]

Time is probably the simplest fix for this problem, but I don't think it's the best. Removing knockback would be slightly more complicated, and I'm not exactly sure how I feel about it. The knockback plus entry/exit boundaries forces you to deal with the problem and come up with tactics you would not normally use. With the large number of enemies, their immediate repop speed, and no methods ingame to counteract knock-back (such as spells which make you heavier or give you resist-knockback), things can get out of control a lot more easily than in other reives.

Personally, I would like to see the exit boundaries for reives extended a little bit. The entry boundaries should remain the same, so you can still avoid the reives if you want to, but if the exit boundaries were extended 50%, it should allow for some better positioning. This would probably take a bit longer for them to program in, however, so meh.

[Sfchakan]

Yes, if you extend the time for status removal, then people can't escape the Reive if it's going south. Instead, they'll run away and have Reive mobs on them still, whittling down their HP and probably pushing their face into the dirt.

[Alhanelem]

Yes, if you extend the time for status removal, then people can't escape the Reive if it's going south. Instead, they'll run away and have Reive mobs on them still, whittling down their HP and probably pushing their face into the dirt.
Isn't the whole point of the small radius and 10 minute ban to *discourage* people fleeing a rieve?

Also, extending the time would not prevent what you say- the mobs won't(shouldn't) leave the reive area.


Personally, I would like to see the exit boundaries for reives extended a little bit. The entry boundaries should remain the same, so you can still avoid the reives if you want to, but if the exit boundaries were extended 50%, it should allow for some better positioning. This would probably take a bit longer for them to program in, however, so meh. I think this would work fine. Most of the rieves really need more breathing room, but passerby also deserve fair consideration.

[Sfchakan]

Mobs will chase you from a reive area until you lose status or max enmity on them. I'm not sure how far they go, as they deaggro once you lose Reive status.

there are some situations where it would be optimal to escape the current reive. I saw a terrible wipe of JP players the other night. I was on THF and amongst the last of the living and all the mobs came for me. I didn't make it out of the reive in time. Had to eat a HP and lose travel time, etc.

[Edyth]

Seriously, this is just bullshiat. Get killed by a knockback attack, you still get knocked back and if you're pushed out of the area, you can't revive and get back in the reive area within 5 seconds. It's impossible, and you get kicked out of the reive and get banned for 10 minutes.

Remove the ban, remove the knockback, make the area bigger, do SOMETHING.:mad:

Al, edit your post to include a note that the reason you're on the edge of the battle area is because you're weakened and would certainly be killed by AoEs if you were closer. Otherwise, they may simply say, "We suggest that you do not loiter on the edge of the battle area."

[Fishyface]

I don't "usually disagree." I disagree with things that i think are bad ideas or unnecessary. If someone posts a good idea or makes an intelligent comment I happily support it- and in such cases, usually with a 'Like' more than an actual comment.

No, it's not taking to an extreme. That's what white knighting is. If you're not defending something, you can't be white knighting. That's what a white knight does, hence the meaning of the phrase.

Again you say this, but I don't actually do that.

In other words, I have to either not comment, or blindly agree with everything I see in order to not be branded. Got it.

Blindly agreeing is just as bad as white knighting. *You* along with everyone else here needs to stop acting as if I disagree just to disagree- this is not the case, has never been the case, and will never be the case.

So you agree that there are alot of others on this board that dislike how you post. So then by that logic you would have to accept that you are doing something to garner all this negative attention. I'd be willing to go on a limb and say that your making people mad by doing something, and thus your getting negative criticism.. Whether its disagreeing to just disagree, responding to post you dislike etc is semantics at this point.

Its pretty obvious from many posts ive seen you seem to have answer for everything that is wrong or not wrong with this game. Whether your right or wrong in any of that doesnt matter.

Id say we can come to the conclusion that you are doing something that is getting you all this hate, something your saying, something your doing. No one is telling you to stop posting but i think this could be an accurate assumption. And if you really are tired of getting negatively criticized a valid option would be to just reduce your presence here.

And if you dont want to do that maybe just picking your battles (case in point is our correspondence thus far) a little better would help alot.

[Alhanelem]

So you agree that there are alot of others on this board that dislike how you post. So then by that logic you would have to accept that you are doing something to garner all this negative attention. I'd be willing to go on a limb and say that your making people mad by doing something, and thus your getting negative criticism.. Whether its disagreeing to just disagree, responding to post you dislike etc is semantics at this point.

Its pretty obvious from many posts ive seen you seem to have answer for everything that is wrong or not wrong with this game. Whether your right or wrong in any of that doesnt matter.

Id say we can come to the conclusion that you are doing something that is getting you all this hate, something your saying, something your doing. No one is telling you to stop posting but i think this could be an accurate assumption. And if you really are tired of getting negatively criticized a valid option would be to just reduce your presence here.

And if you dont want to do that maybe just picking your battles (case in point is our correspondence thus far) a little better would help alot.Following a little of your own advice would help a lot, as well.

There are plenty of people on this forum I don't care for- but I don't call them out and attack them for it. In the manner you reach out now, that may not have been your intention but that sure is how it came across.

I don't ask you or anyone else in particular to like me. I do however ask that if you don't, then just blacklist me and keep it to yourself. The result would be a lot less drama and a lot less derailed threads.

[Horadrim]

Its pretty obvious from many posts ive seen you seem to have answer for everything that is wrong or not wrong with this game. Whether your right or wrong in any of that doesnt matter.


I challenge you to find anyone on any game forum who posts their opinion or ideas who DOESN'T think they have answers to the problems they are discussing who isn't just called out for "QQ'ing." Anytime I've seen someone complaining about something but not voicing some kind of opinion on a solution for it, they've gotten just as much hate and gotten called out for whining.

So the options you are presenting people are to either agree with everything the overly vocal minority has to say, whine ignorantly and give no opinions so they can be called out for crying about something, or stop posting to avoid getting hate?

This place is hitting a lot of new lows...

[Sfchakan]

I think there needs to be heavier moderation for when all of these threads get derailed by morons.

[Luvbunny]

We just need to go back and focus on how they should fix this SoA contents. I mean, there are plenty of good little ideas on SoA, but they did really bad in implementing the bigger activities. Too many gated walls, and way too obvious little adjustment designed to slow down our progression to a crawl. The latest fix that was supposed to help mages to get more xp - did not help anyone at all, and pretty much ruined Reives activity. I really hope they are fixing these atrocious enmity issue, defense imbalance, and pretty much SoA contents. Right now this game is far from fun to play, there is almost no reasons to subscribe until they revised all of those silly adjustment.

[Horadrim]

We just need to go back and focus on how they should fix this SoA contents. I mean, there are plenty of good little ideas on SoA, but they did really bad in implementing the bigger activities. Too many gated walls, and way too obvious little adjustment designed to slow down our progression to a crawl. The latest fix that was supposed to help mages to get more xp - did not help anyone at all, and pretty much ruined Reives activity. I really hope they are fixing these atrocious enmity issue, defense imbalance, and pretty much SoA contents. Right now this game is far from fun to play, there is almost no reasons to subscribe until they revised all of those silly adjustment.

I think the system as a whole is in a live Beta period -- most of the time new content in FFXI works in that manner.

They just need to be 100% transparent about their plans.

[Alhanelem]

They're lowering the rieve ban to 5 minutes. This is somewhat acceptable, as if you were just KO'd you'd be able to recover in safety and then rejoin the fight after unweakening. That said I wouldn't call it a perfect solution.

[Kaisha]

Same problem with Reive that I had with Voidwatch. You're just magically supposed to know where the perimeter of the battlefield is.

We have those wards dotted about Abyssea, and we have giant lag-spheres around Geomancers. Is it that hard to just have a visual perimeter for these Reive fights so we can keep our distance?

[Alhanelem]

and we have giant lag-spheres around Geomancers.I think you probably answered your own question as to why not. :p

[Demon6324236]

Reives do not need super fancy animations, they just need to have a simple line, nothing more.

[Yinnyth]

As far as accidentally entering a reive, I think the most elegant solution would be to give people who enter a 1 minute grace period where enemies can't hurt them, won't target them, and you don't get penalized if you leave the reive. This grace period would be voided if you take any aggressive actions on enemies or supportive actions on people already taking part in the reive.