Severe pet enmity issues post-update... Please fix today.

[Edyth]

Pets can no longer generate significant enmity.

A Shock Squall from a newly summoned Ramuh in the midst of a solo battle isn't enough to distract the enemy from that Dia II I cast a while ago. For comparison, in a 15-minute battle against an NM, a new Ramuh's Shock Squall used to be able to take hate off me immediately. Now, in a 2-minute battle, my SMN has generated so much hate with Dia II that Ramuh can't take it off me with just Shock Squall.

A Predator Claws can't hold the Pinetorum's attention: it remembers the deep emotional scars my Dia II inflicted after a while, and runs to me.

While Shock Squall + Chaotic Strike or Thunderstorm seems to be sufficient for a Pinetorum, I wonder what things will be like if I go try to fight something that takes a long time. It seems like I can't count on avatars to hold hate. I'm sure other pet jobs are having this issue too.

So far I've only fought the Alluring Orobon NM and a Pinetorum as SMN post-update, and while it wasn't difficult, it was more troublesome than it should've been. However, I have a feeling that if I go fight something like Teekesselchen or Hedjedjet solo, things may not be so pretty.

Perhaps my fear is overblown, but this is the job I use for soloing. With decked-out summoning skill and years of experience, my BST isn't worth touching. Even so, people who depend on that job may be in trouble judging by pet enmity issues with SMN.

I'd rather just have my enemy's main concern be my avatar, rather than me.

More specific example:
Ifrit assaults unclaimed Pinetorium.
Ifrit uses Meteor Strike for 1922 damage.
Ifrit uses Infernal Howl. (Accidentally didn't use before claiming)
Edyth casts Dia II for 0 damage.
Ifrit attacks Pinetorium for approximately 55 blunt damage + 45 fire damage per hit for about 40 seconds.
Pinetorium starts running to me 45 seconds into the battle.
Ifrit uses Meteor Strike again for 2208 damage, and only then does he secure hate for the duration of the battle.
WHAT DID I EVER DO TO YOU? You have a demon throwing meteors at you for quadruple-digit damage, and all I did was cast one spell for 0 damage and give some barely noticeable orders to the demon.

EDIT: Developer response:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/30629-Enmity-System-Explanation-and-Planned-Adjustments?p=421689#post421689

"Blood Pacts, Retreat, and Release do not generate enmity, and as such were not included in the list [of enmity adjustments for the next version update]."

EDIT: Developer 2nd response:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/30629-Enmity-System-Explanation-and-Planned-Adjustments?p=422049#post422049

Camate comes bring hope and very good news, but the developers are timid because they feel there are situations where an avatar taking hate will dismantle our party battle strategies. If you don't feel that is the case, let them know.

EDIT AGAIN, MAY 2nd: NOT FIXED. A Velkk Marauder went ape**** on me for casting Dia II, Stoneskin, and Blink. I'll be transparent. I did recast Dia II when it wore. However, Ramuh's thousands of damage and several stuns could not distract him from my 4 white magic spells which supposedly had their enmity values halved. If that white magic enmity reduction is working, then avatar enmity appears to have gotten even WORSE.

[Luvbunny]

No, your fear is not overblown. The new enmity revision is totally whacked, and it goes the same to beastmaster, any mages and summoner as well. They did not bother to test all these adjustment, they were not even tested in the test server, which exist and pretty much somewhat abandoned now. I would suggest to just avoid SoA for now till 2-3 more updates. Unless your idea of fun is running around in the jungle finding the next root to whack lol, 4-5 location, one hour respawn. The game goes from fun to insanely craptacular in one update lol.

[Demon6324236]

No, your fear is not overblown. The new enmity revision is totally whacked, and it goes the same to beastmaster, any mages and summoner as well. They did not bother to test all these adjustment, they were not even tested in the test server, which exist and pretty much somewhat abandoned now.On topic.

I would suggest to just avoid SoA for now till 2-3 more updates. Unless your idea of fun is running around in the jungle finding the next root to whack lol, 4-5 location, one hour respawn. The game goes from fun to insanely craptacular in one update lol.Not on topic. These problems do not only effect SoA, so avoiding SoA will do nothing.

[Camiie]

I just posted in the "Enmity imbalance" thread, but I'll reiterate here since it's even more on topic. On BST in a Coalition Reive I can send my pet in to land a hit or two, then use Heel so I can get in on the action. The mob then proceeds to attack me based SOLELY on my use of Heel. Pet hate has always been a bit squirrely, but never like this.

[Horadrim]

No, your fear is not overblown. The new enmity revision is totally whacked, and it goes the same to beastmaster, any mages and summoner as well. They did not bother to test all these adjustment, they were not even tested in the test server, which exist and pretty much somewhat abandoned now. I would suggest to just avoid SoA for now till 2-3 more updates. Unless your idea of fun is running around in the jungle finding the next root to whack lol, 4-5 location, one hour respawn. The game goes from fun to insanely craptacular in one update lol.

Or maybe you guys are just starting to experience PUP hate problems? >_> PUP and Automatons have had weird, wonky hate relationships for as long as I can remember.


I just posted in the "Enmity imbalance" thread, but I'll reiterate here since it's even more on topic. On BST in a Coalition Reive I can send my pet in to land a hit or two, then use Heel so I can get in on the action. The mob then proceeds to attack me based SOLELY on my use of Heel. Pet hate has always been a bit squirrely, but never like this.

Has been like this for PUP for a while. I could literally have my automaton whacking at a mob for 50% life with Strobe activated and still pull hate with just a few rounds of auto attack.

EDIT:

Not saying nothing changed, but I will put it out there that maybe they changed enmity for SMN and BST to work more like the shared fashion PUP enmity seems to work. (Which would mean BSTs would need to use Snarl more and SMNs... well... not sure...)

Either way, I wish they'd give more detail on exactly how they change things -- and to not make people's lives harder without a heads up.

[Sasaraixx]

I would really like to hear something from one of the reps. This and healing enmity are issues that seriously affect game play and I would like to know whether a solution is being given the high priority it deserves.

[Vicious]

In absolutely every post made by the devs/reps concerning this, they have taken great pains to state that this enmity adjustment is the first of several. They've also stated that they are keeping a close eye on the situation. The expansion isn't even live a week and they have several things on their radar at the moment, and everyone thinks their particular problem is the Most Important Problem. Go check out any of the Rieve reward threads if you'd like this point illustrated.

If, however, you'd like to be part of the solution instead of the peanut gallery, I would highly suggest posting a detailed explanation of the situations in which you feel enmity is not being generated correctly in the proper thread (Hint: General Discussion = Not proper thread). Then again, the reps are asking for the same reports concerning Reive rewards, and the current ratio of posted reports to aimless, bitchy posts is somewhere in the 1 : 10^4 range, so...

[Demon6324236]

In absolutely every post made by the devs/reps concerning this, they have taken great pains to state that this enmity adjustment is the first of several.Yes, and yet the very first one was enough to break the game for a few different jobs, it seems like they should have at very least tested this rather than just throwing it in and screwing it up.

[Sasaraixx]

In absolutely every post made by the devs/reps concerning this, they have taken great pains to state that this enmity adjustment is the first of several. They've also stated that they are keeping a close eye on the situation. The expansion isn't even live a week and they have several things on their radar at the moment, and everyone thinks their particular problem is the Most Important Problem. Go check out any of the Rieve reward threads if you'd like this point illustrated.

If, however, you'd like to be part of the solution instead of the peanut gallery, I would highly suggest posting a detailed explanation of the situations in which you feel enmity is not being generated correctly in the proper thread (Hint: General Discussion = Not proper thread). Then again, the reps are asking for the same reports concerning Reive rewards, and the current ratio of posted reports to aimless, bitchy posts is somewhere in the 1 : 10^4 range, so...


First of all, the devs haven't made any posts about *this* issue. I'm not talking about enmity adjustments in general. I'm talking about two specific problems that others across the forums have pointed out. And yes, I do happen to think that multiple jobs not being able to perform fairly basic and central aspects of their job is a problem of the highest degree. Perhaps if you had actually read the multiple posts addressing this issue on the English and Japanese forums, as I have, you would not have felt the need to make a post that added absolutely no value whatsoever and showed how ignorant you are on the matter.

I am just as aware as you of all the dev team has on their plate. I did not ask for a detailed explanation of how the problem is going to be remedied, but just confirmation that the team is aware things are not working as intended. The response today regarding Rieve is an example.

The only aimless, bitchy post I've read today is yours, so ...

[Thundarian]

I would like to note that beyond all sorts of fun pet issues I'm having as summoner, I have yet to encounter a mob in the game that I can't pull off of anyone with an accession'd regen 2, which before the aggro change, I have NEVER pulled off someone with.

[Camiie]

Not saying nothing changed, but I will put it out there that maybe they changed enmity for SMN and BST to work more like the shared fashion PUP enmity seems to work. (Which would mean BSTs would need to use Snarl more and SMNs... well... not sure...)

If they want me to use Snarl more then they'll have to lower the timer. And SMN has no enmity dump


Either way, I wish they'd give more detail on exactly how they change things -- and to not make people's lives harder without a heads up.

This is why they should test things. Especially if they have no idea how various aspects of the game are going to be impacted.

[Pebe]

For the people talking about summoner enmity I have a few questions for you.

1. When you resummon are you in the enmity range of the mob
2. Do you reassault your avatar
3. Do you cure and buff yourself within the enmity range of the mob (30 yalms iirc)
4. This is more of a statement than a question - The action of using a blood pact, being it rage or ward, will give you some hate, the avatar itself only gets hate when the move executes after the charge up.

1 through 4 on my list are all sources of enmity the mob can have on you. It is not just your Dia II you have to worry about. You have to be out of the hate range of the mob when performing actions(Impossible for bloodpacts). You have to remember that there are two types of enmity. 1 that decays and 1 that doesn't. When you resummon your avatar, your decayable enmity is probably at 0, but your non-decayable enmity is not obviously. You avatar however starts with 0 of both. So if you have been building up your non-decayable enmity accidently because of the above 1-4 list, it may be harder for your avatar to grab hate from you. Before you avatar can maintain hate he must pass your non-decayable enmity value otherwise as his decayable enmity decays during the 45 seconds that you have to wait between bloodpacts, it will get low enough that hate switches to you because of your amassed non-decayable enmity. Also you have to remember that because of the enmity changes the amount of both decayable and non-decayable enmity is lowered from bloodpact damage and his melee damage. Thus the avatar's melee damage can not keep up with the rate of decay on the decayable enmity, nor build enough non-decayable enmity in time. In my opinion, more so than just the enmity system, avatars themselves should get a buff in their melee damage, it is kind of crappy atm. I shall end with a few suggestions to help with the current enmity situation:

1. Build a fast cast precast set to summon your avatars so you can ensure the mob doesn't get close enough to get bonus hate from you summoning
2. A continuation of #1: Make sure you are far enough away from the mob when you start resummong
3. A continuation of 1 and 2, mix in some enmity minus gear in your avatar midcast casting set just in case.
4. Every place that you do not have bloodpact enhancing gear, put in enmity- gear when performing bloodpacts. The spots that come to mind are the earring (novia - unless you have both gifted and legion earring(I forget name)) and the ammo slot. It is not much but every little bit helps.

Conclusion: I am not saying enmity isn't broken, I'm just pointing out other sources of hate that some people do not recognize. Hopefully these steps help to alleviate some of your issues until the hate system is adjusted.

[Luvbunny]

Is this just apply to the SoA areas or does it apply to all areas within the game? Because this will seriously hurt beast master and summoner in abyssea and dynamis, not to mention meeble events as well.

[Bahamut]

Ok I did some checking and it appears everything is working as intended, if you cannot keep up your pet from dying and die aftewards it seems you might have the wrong impression of being a mortal. Realisticly when your pet had died, it seen you as the only person resposible for the pet being there, and was smart enough to see you created another pet and decided it was time you were for lunch and not your pet. Balanced game once again, solo'rs are no longer able to solo those most powerful mobs all by themselfs.

We are very sorry to hear that this has happend to you, if you feel you would like the devs to look at this issue again I encourage you to use the square enix support page and submit a ticket. Was there any other questions you had? lol

[Luvbunny]

We are very sorry to hear that this has happend to you, if you feel you would like the devs to look at this issue again I encourage you to use the square enix support page and submit a ticket. Was there any other questions you had? lol

Meh, they probably won't bother - most just cancel their subscriptions, and all their dual triple box accounts. Suck to be SE. Assuming most will be back after a few months, but if this trend continue, they would end up loosing a lot more subscribers than gaining new ones.

[Sasaraixx]

Ok I did some checking and it appears everything is working as intended, if you cannot keep up your pet from dying and die aftewards it seems you might have the wrong impression of being a mortal. Realisticly when your pet had died, it seen you as the only person resposible for the pet being there, and was smart enough to see you created another pet and decided it was time you were for lunch and not your pet. Balanced game once again, solo'rs are no longer able to solo those most powerful mobs all by themselfs.

We are very sorry to hear that this has happend to you, if you feel you would like the devs to look at this issue again I encourage you to use the square enix support page and submit a ticket. Was there any other questions you had? lol

You aren't being serious right? It's impossible to tell in these threads.

Of course your avatars enmity is set at 0 when you resummon. That has always been the case. Any Summoner who has spent any time soloing knows this and knows to cast any spells or use JA outside of aggro range whenever possible. The problem is that with the enmity changes, avatars are no longer able to hold hate with their damage. And because avatars have no other ways of generating hate, this is a problem. It is startling because players are reporting hate problems simply from using BP commands. This would be understandable after a prolonged fight against a tough foe, but in the cases we're seeing here it is happening quickly. Previously, one BP Rage would be enough to firmly reestablish hate, but apparently that is not the case now. This obviously affects BST as well.

It really seems like the dev team was so focused on lowering enmity generated from damage to help tanks keep hate off of DD's that they failed to take into account pets and support magic other than cures. Or it could be that they no longer want pets to be able to hold hate, SMNs and BSTS to solo and want mages to full time -Enmity sets. If it's the latter, well I already have a bad cold. I don't need to feel even sicker. :(

[Luvbunny]

It really seems like the dev team was so focused on lowering enmity generated from damage to help tanks keep hate off of DD's that they failed to take into account pets and support magic other than cures. Or it could be that they no longer want pets to be able to hold hate, SMNs and BSTS to solo and want mages to full time -Enmity sets. If it's the latter, well I already have a bad cold. I don't need to feel even sicker. :(

It does affect BST a great huge deal, I can attest to this. And mages. Any good samaritan mages especially - if you are doing anything remotely helpful to strangers by casting Cure 4 on them, the mob will go after you hard. So yeah, if this is not being fixed today, get ready to feel even sicker, you and me both lol.

[Sarick]

Meh, they probably won't bother - most just cancel their subscriptions, and all their dual triple box accounts. Suck to be SE. Assuming most will be back after a few months, but if this trend continue, they would end up loosing a lot more subscribers than gaining new ones.

Sad but true. I have a question about your opinion. Do you think the accountants/management team will even notice this in time or will they just let things slip until they're forced shut down all the servers?

[Luvbunny]

Funny thing though. Do you think the accountants/management will even notice this in time or will they just let things slip until they're forced shut down all the servers?

They will do server merger first - I think there are a few left stills. Updates are being performed today though. If they are not changing this in a week or two, then a lot of pet jobs player will quit this game. It is one thing to apply it on SoA areas (which defeats the purpose of exploration solo on your own time and leisure) - but to apply it to all areas is a suicidal moves. Reports have surfaced on how easy prey is wreaking havoc to melee DD as well. Yes this show no proper testing was conducted and we are just beta testing this recent updates. I still hope they do a lot of emergency maintenance this week and revert back all these atrocious changes though. They are not that dumb hopefully.

NOPE - no fixes on the enmity issues... Say goodbye to your pet jobs now lol.

[Xtrasweettea]

I don't think it is the system as it is as much as the players when it comes with their issues with the "new system."

You can solo the mobs in SOA (at least the hunting grounds) as a pet job. I've solo'd tough grasshoppers, butterflies, bunnies, mandies, and those umbril things (not by choice) as PUP. I have not noticed any changes in my automaton's enmity when it comes to his spell casting or damage output. My automaton does not rip the mob from me when he cures me, nukes the mob, or buffs me. He will have higher hate than me IF he engages first, hits the mobs, and casts a spell on it until I can successfully grab the mob's attention... like I have experienced since I've solo'd the job up to 75 pre-abyssea era. I have no trouble taking down the mobs in the hunting grounds.

This is what I have seen around the hunting grounds that other pet jobs are doing wrong:

*BSTs, if you are using a Jug Pet, you are going to have a bad time. Jug Pets are weaker than their wild counterparts. They will not keep the damage output needed to keep the enemy facing the Jug Pet. The Jug Pet will lose enmity from their weaker hits and lose their enmity whenever they take damage. BSTs are going to have to do it old school to solo. That is: building a CHR+/Charm set and charm the SOA mobs in the area (they can be charmed), use -enmity gear while giving commands, learn pet rotation, and learn the affinity wheel. BSTs are going to have to practice and see which mobs can be engaged with both pet and master or just pet.

*SMNs soloing: Pebe above gave a great checklist for helping to keep yourself alive. It's going to take practice and patience to learn to solo these mobs. You may not be able to solo everything in the zones. SMNs should also learn about the terrain that would give them the advantage over the enemy's movement (cliffs, rocks, winding paths, etc.).

*PUPs: Your automaton does not tank the mobs, you do as the master. The automaton supports the master. Your automaton needs (MINIMAL) to have near capped magic (high enough for CureVI), the Mana Booster Attachment, and the Damage Gauge attachment. You will need to learn about positioning the automaton according to your enemy's actions (if they have AOE attacks, conal, knockbacks, etc.) in order to keep your automaton alive. For the master, it is your call when it comes to your gear. I would suggest an Evasion+ set of gear, though I rarely use it currently. For the mobs in the hunting grounds that I solo, I just fight in my TP set and zerg the mob down. Also, you will need to sub DNC. Just Healing Waltz alone saves my automaton from having to cast erase and him having to waste MP on a spell (Haste Samba is also nice).

I hate to sound like the mean guy in the room kicking people while they are down, but someone has to point out that part of the problem is the players. It is not 100% SE's fault. People forgot or never learned how to solo mobs or engage enemies where the players are not buffed or have high amounts of temps to keep them alive. Players will need to dig through those archives of the old "how too" guides for soloing on BST, SMN, PUP, RDM, BLU, etc. Those guides are still there, they just need to be updated for current content. The old lessons still hold true in current content.

Oh, and for those who keep saying "people will quit in large number" because of these "changes." No, the people who refuse to adapt to SoA content or the damage adjustments will quit. Those who will adapt and work within the limitations given to them will stick around.

[Sasaraixx]

NOPE - no fixes on the enmity issues... Say goodbye to your pet jobs now lol.


Well, it is a pretty vast issue so I did not expect a fix today. I would just like a confirmation that this is indeed not what they intended for pet jobs.

[Horadrim]

If they want me to use Snarl more then they'll have to lower the timer. And SMN has no enmity dump



This is why they should test things. Especially if they have no idea how various aspects of the game are going to be impacted.

I would agree with you.

[Tannlore]

I haven't noticed anything myself since the expac, but after reading this I decided to do some testing.

Now, I soloed smn via carby kiting method waaaayyy back before any of the expansions came outt to 75. I'm quite familiar with how enmity works with my avatar and how to keep it off me. Swinging a Hverglmir around post-aftermath all the time helps reinforce how enmity works between you and your avatar.

I tried some tests with a simple carby kite method today, no favor on either... and I found the mob returning to me a few times. It didn't happen all the time, but it did happen. I did not take any actions, I did nothing but stand there. Re-summons were done from a comfortable distance. Carby would hit the mob.. for a while... and suddenly the monster would come to say hello to me. 9 years of carby kiting, this is new to me! I have not tested it since the update today.

[Asymptotic]

What? I thought enmity was broken? People were so mad that tank jobs couldn't hold hate!? Now your pets can't hold hate and mages pull hate off of melees with Hastes ... reap what you sow player base!

[Tannlore]

What? I thought enmity was broken? People were so mad that tank jobs couldn't hold hate!? Now your pets can't hold hate and mages pull hate off of melees with Hastes ... reap what you sow player base!

You know what they say about stones and glass houses....

[Asymptotic]

At first I was annoyed by the update because my mule kept taking hate off of me at the start of fights, but now it's awesome because I can equip my WHM automaton with an -enmity attachment and never have to worry about it taking hate while I watch netflix or do homework while skilling it up.

[Tannlore]

At first I was annoyed by the update because my mule kept taking hate off of me at the start of fights, but now it's awesome because I can equip my WHM automaton with an -enmity attachment and never have to worry about it taking hate while I watch netflix or do homework while skilling it up.

Well this is a good example for pup it seems. But this isn't good for smn however, esp. since they don't have any enmity transfer abilities to speak of what so ever. Not to mention, they are pretty much walking tissue papers. We NEED our pets to hold hate, that's the whole point of them for us. I'm hoping today's update fixed some of this. Guess I'll find out when I fight Medusa here in a second lol

[Pentiki]

People posting about career summoners not understanding enmity need to double-check themselves.


*SMNs soloing: Pebe above gave a great checklist for helping to keep yourself alive. It's going to take practice and patience to learn to solo these mobs. You may not be able to solo everything in the zones. SMNs should also learn about the terrain that would give them the advantage over the enemy's movement (cliffs, rocks, winding paths, etc.).

Pebe's post, while attempting to be friendly, contains no information that anyone playing summoner solo for more than 30 minutes under level 70 doesn't know.
If summoners had any armor rating to speak of, this might not be the end of the world, but they don't. The whole concept of summoner is exceedingly weak player (lowest HP and vit of any job) and a fragment of a gods power, working together. There is not a lot of room for misjudging enmity as a summoner. We get to wear cloth. We are very squishy. We have, as a group, a very good understanding of what enmity means.
Additionally, using terrain (and consequently, mob pathing logic) to avoid taking damage is considered an exploit. Using it on the small scale you suggest is unlikely to get you into serious trouble, but it is still against ToS. It's also important to note that avatars follow the same pathing logic.

Any summoner who's leveled traditionally knows how enmity works, the first 50 levels are a brutal free-for-all of summoner death, due to low skill, low avatar output, and high enmity gain by other abilities (eating a cookie, for instance)

Granted with the advent of abyssea, old style leveling isn't typical behaviour for someone wanting to play summoner, but summoner's do not solo before level 70 with any audacity (easy prey below 70 can give a summoner a run for their money, depending on gear)

Here's a simple illustration of the current state of things.

Summoning magic skill capped + merits + gear. (471)
Using Vayuvata III Avatar perpetuation staff with capped staff skill + merits. (414 skill, 57 dmg, 474 attack)
Capped Enmity- merits, enmity -1 from Hedgehog Bomb

Using Predator Claws resulting in 1700 damage (nearly 1/3 it's health) only held an easy prey Ggoblin Healer (in dagruf wadi) against my melee attacks (40-60 dmg, vs avatar 85-125 dmg) for 8 combat rounds.

Avatars have always had low enmity gain from auto-attack. Based on Square's notes, some of this is due to low attack speed. Coupling this with the change that getting hit drains enmity faster, it's a serious problem. (see notes here, for those unfamiliar: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/30629-Enmity-System-Explanation-and-Planned-Adjustments)

I feel this situation might be exacerbated by how avatar hp is viewed by various code. (for example, Tonberry Throat Stab affects avatars as though it was calculated against the summoner's HP, rather than the avatar's HP). It seems that the enmity code for damage-volatile enmity might be calculated against the summoner's HP rather than the avatar's, causing enmity to be dumped quicker than it reasonably should.

If this remains the case summoners are going to need an armor upgrade, or worse, an ability to dump enmity like enmity douse. (not my preferred solution, personally.)

Now, for those decrying that we need to get used to it, if summoners were meant to stand in the back doing one ability every 45-60 seconds, this wouldn't indicate a problem. This is not only incredibly boring, however, but also leaves little use for a subjob. It also doesn't contribute to party play in a reasonably meaningful way (why get a summoner with upper mediocre damage, who's going to need a lot of help from tanks and healers alike, when you can have any other DD who can take a few hits?)

[Luvbunny]

Well, it is a pretty vast issue so I did not expect a fix today. I would just like a confirmation that this is indeed not what they intended for pet jobs.

They can simply revert back to pre-update. And put those sad-justment in the test server, like how they are suppose to do it in the first place, and do more testing before unleashing hell upon pet jobs players. It's quite simple really. Right now is chewing beastmaster and summoners - rendering the jobs somewhat unplayable. Not to mention - it's affecting those dual triple quadruple boxing, those nice little income SE been having by making the game easier to play. Once they start canceling their accounts, and all those so called casual corners (that most of the posters here lovingly loathe...) follow suits, we are not gonna be a happy campers.

[Asymptotic]

Using Predator Claws resulting in 1700 damage (nearly 1/3 it's health) only held an easy prey Ggoblin Healer (in dagruf wadi) against my melee attacks (40-60 dmg, vs avatar 85-125 dmg) for 8 combat rounds.

Avatars have always had low enmity gain from auto-attack. Based on Square's notes, some of this is due to low attack speed. Coupling this with the change that getting hit drains enmity faster, it's a serious problem. (see notes here, for those unfamiliar: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/30629-Enmity-System-Explanation-and-Planned-Adjustments)

I feel this situation might be exacerbated by how avatar hp is viewed by various code. (for example, Tonberry Throat Stab affects avatars as though it was calculated against the summoner's HP, rather than the avatar's HP). It seems that the enmity code for damage-volatile enmity might be calculated against the summoner's HP rather than the avatar's, causing enmity to be dumped quicker than it reasonably should.

If this remains the case summoners are going to need an armor upgrade, or worse, an ability to dump enmity like enmity douse. (not my preferred solution, personally.)

Now, for those decrying that we need to get used to it, if summoners were meant to stand in the back doing one ability every 45-60 seconds, this wouldn't indicate a problem. This is not only incredibly boring, however, but also leaves little use for a subjob. It also doesn't contribute to party play in a reasonably meaningful way (why get a summoner with upper mediocre damage, who's going to need a lot of help from tanks and healers alike, when you can have any other DD who can take a few hits?)

So wait, your issue is your avatar can't hold hate off your melee hits?

[Pentiki]

So wait, your issue is your avatar can't hold hate off your melee hits?

That is merely an example of the problem. The problem is, as the OP states, a general problem with enmity.

It's not merely that my avatar can't hold hate from my hits, it's that an in game entity which is, reasonably speaking, far more powerful in every respect than i am cannot hold hate from my melee hits, even after doing significant damage to a target.

It's like a black mage auto-attacking with a staff and getting enmity over a samurai with a great katana.

Edit:Added quote for clarity

[Luvbunny]

I seriously hope they are addressing this issue and do another emergency update to fix it. Since this is really affecting everyone who plays pet jobs, or mages in general. If this is only affecting SoA areas, it would not be such a huge deal since we can just avoid the expansion until further notice. As it is now, it renders the game unplayable for those who just want to explore and do a little farming, not to mention everyone else who like to just log and play with their pet jobs or those people with dual box account.

[Tannlore]

It's like a black mage auto-attacking with a staff and getting enmity over a samurai with a great katana.

This is a pretty good analogy here. And after doing some more tests tonight, the problems are still there and how. So this update didn't fix anything.

[Segasaturn]

My SMN 99 was having the same problem with hate i basically cant keep hate on any of my avatars.
2,000 DMG Wind blade and I whack the damn mob with 1 melee hit and i pull hate......and i better hope i dont cast cure IV or i'm DEAD.

[Winrie]

Welcome to not being able to pet burn, exactly how it should be.

[Zumi]

Maybe this is intended they got sick of people pet burning stuff like odins.

[Luvbunny]

Welcome to not being able to pet burn, exactly how it should be.

Trolling much? I am testing it now and so far I have no issue with Leviathan holding hate in Abyssea. I can cast all the self buffing spells all I want - after one nice Grandfall that drop a big chunk of mob HP, it is enough to show who is the boss. Used both whm subs and sch subs, spam helix and water, water 2. Burn pet burn!! Kill em all my avatar and minions!!

I also melee it, cast dia, paralyze, etc.. Maybe they did ninja fix today without mentioning it since that would admit there is a problem, now they just saved face. In case anyone wonder, saving face is a big deal in Asian country.

Btw, I am doing the magian trial for leviathan staff killing 150 lizard type creature - in Aby Ugly Range vs Adasaurus. So far not once hate is shifting once Grand Fall take a big chunk of mob hp.

[Winrie]

Maybe this is intended they got sick of people bet burning stuff like odins.

I honestly think this is the case. With pets at least.

[Aldersyde]

Maybe this is intended they got sick of people pet burning stuff like odins.

A bunch of level 99 pets shouldn't kick the bejesus out of a level 80-85 mob? Are you high?

Despite a whole lotta hate towards pet jobs, if I'm killing something with my pet, I should never get hate just by casting dia II on it. And that's what happened tonight. My pet was was hitting and doing damage to to an umbril, and that thing pursued me to the ends of the earth for one frigging spell. No matter how many times my pet hit it, it would break off and go for me.

That's broken...point blank.

Fix this already.

[Luvbunny]

Hate seems to be rather all over the place in SoA. Killed a couple of mobs there, even after Grandfall, after a short time, the mob will go after me. I fought twitterym mob, maybe they have hate reset? Did kill the big mantis with no hate issue at all, may have to kill several mobs to find out if it is indeed broken so bad. Killed a couple random mobs in SoA areas, hate is definitely broken here, need fix really bad!!

[Zumi]

A bunch of level 99 pets shouldn't kick the bejesus out of a level 80-85 mob? Are you high?

Despite a whole lotta hate towards pet jobs, if I'm killing something with my pet, I should never get hate just by casting dia II on it. And that's what happened tonight. My pet was was hitting and doing damage to to an umbril, and that thing pursued me to the ends of the earth for one frigging spell. No matter how many times my pet hit it, it would break off and go for me.

That's broken...point blank.

Fix this already.

Level 99 players can't do the same thing that are not pet without a lot of planning on odin, like aoe stoneskin, phalanx, scherzo. Due to the fact pets take much less damage then players or in the case of smn doesn't matter if it dies. With SMN doesn't matter if their pet dies resummon, bst is just spam items to regain its hp while taking much less damage then a player does.

I seen odin pet burns pre patch and there is no skill or anything involved with it. However if you use actual players you have to be really careful have certain buffs up to survive.

[Luvbunny]

Yeah you can say the same about WoE pet burns, and no one seems to mind about this either and rather preferred method for this. And if you think pet jobs are so OMG unfair!! - then you are high indeed lol. An alliance of normal jobs and melee DD can do a much better damage output, faster, and better than Summoners and Beastmasters can ever dream or hope for. There are a lot of reasons why most of the three pet based jobs currently sitting outside on most endgame events (or used because their one JA: Perfect Defense). As everyone has mentioned here, the HATE ISSUE is BROKEN, especially for pet jobs. Please SE fix this as soon as possible within the next week or so.

[Zumi]

Yeah you can say the same about WoE pet burns, and no one seems to mind about this either and rather preferred method for this. And if you think pet jobs are so OMG unfair!! - then you are high indeed lol. An alliance of normal jobs and melee DD can do a much better damage output, faster, and better than Summoners and Beastmasters can ever dream or hope for. There are a lot of reasons why most of the three pet based jobs currently sitting outside on most endgame events (or used because their one JA: Perfect Defense). As everyone has mentioned here, the HATE ISSUE is BROKEN, especially for pet jobs. Please SE fix this as soon as possible within the next week or so.

With a proper tank there is no issue. As in a what a normal group would have, players taking the damage. Not some throw a bunch of pets at a mob because it doesn't matter if they die or take major reduced damage.

If I am a lets say a drk, I can't solo well in the new expansion because well mobs hit me for a lot I don't have defensive abilities, shouldn't the same thing apply to pet jobs?

SE wanted to bring tanking back to the game. Want to do stuff get a tank like everyone else in the game.

[Sasaraixx]

Welcome to not being able to pet burn, exactly how it should be.

It's amazing to me how so many people cannot seem to grasp a concept that is so simple. I also don't know where the butt hurt is coming from against pet jobs. There are plenty of jobs capable of (more) impressive solos and there are far more effective set ups than pet burns. It also seems that most of the non-career SMNs have very little idea about how the job is played and has been played since it was introduced.

The enmity issue is effecting ALL mage jobs but is also causing problems for pets. If you think this is some nerf to pet jobs, then you must also think that SE wants SCHs tanking for casting enhancing magic. It just happens to be the case that pet jobs are hit even harder.

I do not know why they have not issued some kind of statement about an issue that is effecting a large portion of the player population. There have been so many posts about Rieve.

[Sasaraixx]

If I am a lets say a drk, I can't solo well in the new expansion because well mobs hit me for a lot I don't have defensive abilities, shouldn't the same thing apply to pet jobs?

SE wanted to bring tanking back to the game. Want to do stuff get a tank like everyone else in the game.

So you're saying that because DRK doesn't have much soloing capability then the jobs that do have the ability to solo should not be able to? If that's the case, then something should be done about DNC, NIN, BLU, RDM, SCH, etc. I hope you realize how ridiculous your statement is.

And let's put aside this belief you have that pet jobs are running around soloing all of the content in this game. These pet enmity issue are on easy prey mobs as well. If you don't think Garuda should be able to keep hate off of the SMN while fighting an EP goblin that she is decimating while the SMN stands there or heaven forbid melees with their oh so powerful magian perpetuation staff, then I really question your view of this game.

[Tannlore]

Level 99 players can't do the same thing that are not pet without a lot of planning on odin, like aoe stoneskin, phalanx, scherzo. Due to the fact pets take much less damage then players or in the case of smn doesn't matter if it dies. With SMN doesn't matter if their pet dies resummon, bst is just spam items to regain its hp while taking much less damage then a player does.

I seen odin pet burns pre patch and there is no skill or anything involved with it. However if you use actual players you have to be really careful have certain buffs up to survive.

My LS did old Odin last night and had no problems, sorry your "solution" in this case doesn't seem to work. We took odin down with smn/pups/bst just fine, despite the enmity issues.

When we did ultima that's where the problem arose. Why? We did a more traditional route with actual tanks and healers, and the enmity was so borked it was impossible. Our whm just couldn't cure our paladin to save her life without pulling hate.

So sorry, there is a problem and I personally thing it effects the non pet jobs more than us. Specifically it hurts that type of gaming style you seem to prefer. So before you go nanananing about pet burns getting their just deserts, realize this first.

Also, understand SMN. It NEEDS for the avatar to tank for it, period. If it doesn't, then it is broken. "fixing" a problem by breaking a job, no matter how much the problem needs to be fixed, is -not- a solution.... ever, period. They need to find a different solution.

[Sasaraixx]

Finally a post about Enmity on the Japanese forums. We got the same response of how they are implementing the adjustments bit by bit and this was the first step, etc. etc.

They do say that by the end of the month (huh?) they will be adjusting some of the job abilities and spells classified by fixed enmity increases. They plan on lowering the hate increase to about half of what it is now. That last sentence is in a separate paragraph from the previous so I'm not sure what that relates too. The English translation will be up soon I'm sure though.

There is no mention of pets or avatars specifically.

I ask again. Why wasn't all of this done on the test server? I'm really confused.

[Luvbunny]

They do say that by the end of the month (huh?) they will be adjusting some of the job abilities and spells classified by fixed enmity increases. They plan on lowering the hate increase to about half of what it is now. That last sentence is in a separate paragraph from the previous so I'm not sure what that relates too. The English translation will be up soon I'm sure though. I ask again. Why wasn't all of this done on the test server? I'm really confused.

Sadly that may be too late for some people. I foresee accounts cancelation already in progress. Most people won't wait months for this kind of respond. Time to take that long break again, and come back in a year lol.

[Himrik]

MOur whm just couldn't cure our paladin to save her life without pulling hate.

PLD enmity is not generating via DPS, and healing enmity was reduced (Except for Cure V, which wasn't changed), so the only way for a PLD to not keep hate over a WHM is...a bad PLD, sorry.

[Kokorololi]

The enmity issue is effecting ALL mage jobs but is also causing problems for pets. If you think this is some nerf to pet jobs, then you must also think that SE wants SCHs tanking for casting enhancing magic. It just happens to be the case that pet jobs are hit even harder.

Not seeing this happen at all. Someone is doing something wrong there. Even if you AoE enhance during a battle that's at most 1800 VE, the same as a provoke. That's not counting any enmity- on the SCH.

[Luvbunny]

They are apparently aware of the issue now. But no course of action will be taken until the end of the month, assuming there is no other major issue. Which means it can be fixed as soon as end of this month or a couple months from now lol.

[Tannlore]

PLD enmity is not generating via DPS, and healing enmity was reduced (Except for Cure V, which wasn't changed), so the only way for a PLD to not keep hate over a WHM is...a bad PLD, sorry.

Exactly how would our paladin keep hate then if you could explain? If it wasn't the two flashes, or the three provokes, or the 7 requisats, reprisals or the 6+ cure IVs, or the shield bashes, or the melee hits.... Explain to me how a Cure 3, a single... cure 3 pulls hate off all of that? A cure 3 with nothing else having been done at all. Then the white mage was killed after the paladin continued to flash, provoke, shield bash, WS, Cure IVed the whm.. and still the whm died.

It should -not-, it wasn't a bad paladin sorry, next time ask for details before assuming bad players, it's highly rude and will garner a rude response from me in turn.

edit: And as the JP forums now say, there IS in fact a problem as you can see. Thank you.

Edit 2: Here is the English post, nothing about pet enmity yet :(

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/30629-Enmity-System-Explanation-and-Planned-Adjustments?p=415502#post415502

[Sasaraixx]

Not seeing this happen at all. Someone is doing something wrong there. Even if you AoE enhance during a battle that's at most 1800 VE, the same as a provoke. That's not counting any enmity- on the SCH.

You seem to be in the minority as most of the other comments I've read point to the opposite.

[Luvbunny]

I have not yet encountering any problems in Abyssea as beast master, summoner or white mage. Everything working as normal. Thank goodness!! But these problems do happen in all areas outside abyssea especially in SoA areas. You can't really do any farming or exploration as Smn or Bst, your pet + avatar cannot hold hate, and mob always running back to you even if you only send them to attack and stand far away. Any JA will ensure the mob run to you 100% guaranteed.

[Himrik]

Exactly how would our paladin keep hate then if you could explain? If it wasn't the two flashes, or the three provokes, or the 7 requisats, reprisals or the 6+ cure IVs, or the shield bashes, or the melee hits.... Explain to me how a Cure 3, a single... cure 3 pulls hate off all of that? A cure 3 with nothing else having been done at all. Then the white mage was killed after the paladin continued to flash, provoke, shield bash, WS, Cure IVed the whm.. and still the whm died.


You see, I played all the afternoon as a PUP soloing monsters, and with a few Animated flourishes, my Automaton couldn't take the mob off me even with Cure V or Cure VI, so basically, I don't see any problem with Cure enmity when you do a simple tank job.
Maybe your server is bugged...

If I understood correctly, a WHM pulled hate with a Cure III but the PLD can't get the mob back with several Cure IV ?! If the curing enmity was flawed as you claim, the PLD should get massive hate from Cures.

[Segasaturn]

I think your wrong Xtrasweettea. I don't pretend to know every job, but i do know ALOT about Summoner. ive been playing Summoner since CoP and in the past it has had many problems But its not like someone like me forgets how to play a job just because the games been easy mode for awhile.

PUP is NOT the same thing as SMN

SMN has no choice the avatar MUST tank or the player dies we have no way of provking the mob and we are the 2nd squishiest job right next to BLM...

PUPs dont normally use the Tank frame of there automaton. so unless your using the tank frame and trying to hold hate on your pet its not even the same problem as SMN is having. and even if you did, PUP has so many flexiable options and Provokes that it will probbly not have the same problem.

AND most important I'm here posting about a Bug or a problem with the Update in regards to how they changed hate/Control/Enmity for a job they clearly did not test. Helping to support our loved game to support our Developers and to keep the game fun and rewarding to play. SE makes mistakes in programing it happens its always happend its just human.

[Bahamut]

It seems like petters are being given the same treatment as ps2 users were this time around, change... live with it?

[Luvbunny]

Enmity is a BIG MESSED UP issue now. Even using charmed T mob, hate is still ALL OVER THE PLACE for beast. A simple regen 2 will draw hate, aquaveil, blink, all draw massive hate, very fast. It does not matter if you have done nothing while your pet deal rather twice the amount of damage to the mob, your pet, jugs or not, CANNOT hold hate period. This apply to Avatar and Bst Pets, does not matter what how and where you stand, the mob will come after you shortly (more broken as summoner). You can't really explore safely as beast, even if you want to play it the old school charm and leave, the mechanic is so broken right now, it's not even worth playing as pet jobs.

[RAIST]

Had a similar experience today on SMN with the bees near Bivouac 2 (the ones you need to kill for the quest). Was chewing up my mp too fast on Garuda, so tried to revert to the old Carby Kite to recover some mp. Even popping it for 1k+, Carby could not keep it's attention. I ran a good clip away for my rebuffs/regen and it would come after me. I'm not tallking just past when the HP bar goes away or the battle music stops. This was like a full map square away. Carby had the bee in the clearing near their spawn points, and I was past the bivouac, and sort of around the corner from it.

It was also bad in a group last night--the Pioneer Fomor NM was bouncing all over the place with a PUP and SMN in the mix.

SE really needs to take a close look at pet jobs--NOW...not a month down the line.

[Tohihroyu]

Even using items like food will generate enmity...sersly... While my pet Chapuli was smacking an Umbril around the second I used yellow curry bun the Umbril turned right to me and started attacking me.

For jugpets Snarl is a joke, use it and it'll turn and hit the pet once or twice then turn back to me ._.

[Edyth]

This thread needs a bump. Here's the developers' response regarding summoners and enmity:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/30629-Enmity-System-Explanation-and-Planned-Adjustments?p=421689#post421689

For the love of God, raise hell, guys. What is said about SMN in this developer post is NOT true.

[Infidi]

Wonder if they are saying anything about this on the JP forums? XD

[Luvbunny]

Can we get a straight answer from the developer, do they even play this game as summoner???? The enmity on BP Rage or Ward is BROKEN!!! Please fix this, the decay rate of avatar's hate is extremely fast and Summoner are getting massive hate from doing NOTHING but standing there using BP Rage..... I mean, god, they want feed back - we are giving them feed back, but for christ sake..... it's one thing to be "thick" but this is plain ridiculous. They clearly do not care what we think, or our feedbacks - then they must not want our money....

[Zagen]

Has anyone submitted pulling hate as a bug? I mean if you're pulling hate from something they say doesn't generate hate that sounds like a bug to me.

[Pebe]

I was reading over the thread again and one or two people mention umbrils. Umbrils have weird hate mechanics to magic iirc. I'm not sure if its been confirmed how it works, but that mob top likes switching to magic users even if they have done basically nothing. So keep this in mind.

[Asymptotic]

It's a fundamental misunderstanding of how things work. Enmity is divided into two categories

VE (Volatile Enmity or Time Volatile Enmity) and CE (Cumulative Enmity or Non-Decaying Enmity)

VE decays rapidly but CE only decays when taking damage. When you are on the enemy's hate list, every action you perform generates at least 1CE. Avatars do not build enmity very well because they do pisspoor damage (since damage enmity got nerfed) and (I think) have some odd HP mechanic they use for calculating enmity loss when taking damage. As a result, avatars are generally sitting at very low enmity so using any job ability or spell will send the mob on a rampage toward the summoner. When they say "these abilities do not generate any enmity" they mean "they do not generate any enmity beyond the absolute minimum systematically possible."

Ultimately though, this is what we, as a player base whole whined and complained for them to do for quite a while. We asked them to make holding hate by auto-attack harder, and they gave it to us! So it's left to us to adapt our playstyles and figure out what we need to do to compensate. (Same goes for the defense update - when I find out who the f*** complained that defense actually needed to be an important stat...)

That aside, it's unlikely that SE cares because SMNs soloing alongside their avatars is probably not their vision of the job.

[Luvbunny]

Finally this issue is being acknowledged - and they are putting a detailed explanation. I sure hope the adjustment is sooner than later though. BUT I do welcome a good reason to take a break from the game and come back in a couple of months after they are fixing a lot of issues and put more good updates on SoA.

[Camiie]

That aside, it's unlikely that SE cares because SMNs soloing alongside their avatars is probably not their vision of the job.

This implies that SE even has a vision for SMN.

[Absinthe]

You see, I played all the afternoon as a PUP soloing monsters, and with a few Animated flourishes, my Automaton couldn't take the mob off me even with Cure V or Cure VI, so basically, I don't see any problem with Cure enmity when you do a simple tank job.
Maybe your server is bugged....

Maybe my server is bugged too, because my automaton is pulling hate off of me when he casts cure on me or slow on my monster. Something has definitely changed...

[Edyth]

Bumping after editing main post.... God help us.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Bumping after editing main post.... God help us.Dont' cast dia.

[Edyth]

Dont' cast dia.

Hello, troll.

I don't think it's reasonable to suggest that a spell that hits for 0 damage should generate enough enmity to distract from 1200 Chaotic Strikes and 1700 Thunderstorms on the Velkk I fought today. I cast Dia II because avatar Assault damage is so low, and Dia II's defense reduction and light damage over time are the only thing I can do to compensate at all.

Furthermore, Dia II was a complete non-issue enmity-wise before the enmity update.

Pre-update, Shock Squall was an indispensable enmity tool, even making it so I could cast and recast Flash to try to stagger NMs I soloed in Abyssea with no fear of retaliation.

Quadruple-digit spike damage was also effective enough to get an NM to forget about me until the avatar's death before the update. Now, that distraction often lasts less than 45 seconds against non-NMs.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Hello, troll.I like how this is your first defence against how you are playing. You realize that the person who accuses some one trolling is usualy the troll right?(Ah, the irony of that statement. lol)
I've solo'd on smn a lot and never bother to cast dia. You can kill things perfectly fine without it. It seems more like that you are failing to understand that your play style needs to change light of the update. What was it? "Fostering more skillful play?" If you're having a problem with hate, stop preforming actions that generate it. I.e. Don't cast dia.

[RAIST]

Have to support Tsukino on this one. All I can say is lesson learned (again), and wasn't even on SMN for this one. Was doing some reive testing on WHM, and really pissed off a bunny without thinking by starting my my usual list of buffs/debuffs. Thankfully, I hadn't fired off any DoT yet and was able to sleep it...but he still got me in the red pretty quick.

One thing that always amused me in this game....no matter how high you get, there's always a cute bunny from hell waiting to eat your face off.

[Rekin]

I'm actually concerned about how much enmity is generated for an almost unoticable spell.

[Infidi]

I like how this is your first defence against how you are playing. You realize that the person who accuses some one trolling is usualy the troll right?(Ah, the irony of that statement. lol)
I've solo'd on smn a lot and never bother to cast dia. You can kill things perfectly fine without it. It seems more like that you are failing to understand that your play style needs to change light of the update. What was it? "Fostering more skillful play?" If you're having a problem with hate, stop preforming actions that generate it. I.e. Don't cast dia.

Here's one of the big problems though: They need to further and specifically adjust how the avatars/pets lose hate when they are hit or adjust the BP/pet TP moves to generate more hate towards them. There shouldn't be any reason to get hate from simple doing a few buffs or one Dia2. I know they are adjusting the way SMN gets that first initial Emnity, so hopefully that'll help abit. Just to give an idea of how bad it is: I was BLM in a delve alliance and came upon a SMN in pt that was fighting a mob. I saw him do a BP and he was meleeing along side his avatar. I cast fresh on him and the mob immediately turned to me and hit me once. I started to walk away and it came after me twice before going back to the avatar. Was pretty funny just from one fresh.

I've def experienced the hate loss from dia2 and buff experiences myself, but never that. Maybe the new fix coming will help lol. Till then back to old school SMN.

[Olor]

I really hope SE shows that they are not completely abandoning pet jobs soon. It's been so long since there has been any good news for BST, SMN and PUP. Last thing they did with BST was nerf one of the only things it had going for it (TH3)

Now pet jobs don't even get the ONE AND ONLY benefit they ever had, which was safe, but slow damage.

[Babekeke]

Now pet jobs don't even get the ONE AND ONLY benefit they ever had, which was safe, but slow damage.

Actually, they still do. You just can't do it without someone holding the mob for you anymore.

[Caketime]

I have to disagree with the comment about BST, TH3 wasn't the only thing it had going for it. Really the heat it got for having TH3 was overblown, and came from butthurt jerks that just wanted less competition in Dyna. It's rather funny now, because that market's failing hard, it's basically just a huge cat litterbox.

After the recent adjustment and subsequent revision of enmity, it's not so much like playing Pong anymore, but it is still hilarious when I cast Haste and obtain all of the aggro.

[Edyth]

I like how this is your first defence against how you are playing. You realize that the person who accuses some one trolling is usualy the troll right?(Ah, the irony of that statement. lol)
I've solo'd on smn a lot and never bother to cast dia. You can kill things perfectly fine without it. It seems more like that you are failing to understand that your play style needs to change light of the update. What was it? "Fostering more skillful play?" If you're having a problem with hate, stop preforming actions that generate it. I.e. Don't cast dia.

It seems you mistook my greeting for part of an argument. However, since it is the nature of trolls to misrepresent arguments so that they are easier to attack, I forgive you, because it is difficult to fight against one's own nature.

Regarding my greeting, I have simply identified your species of Beastman based on your posts that I have seen around the forum; it was not because the strongest rebuttal to my complaint that you could muster was a single sentence more akin to sass than reason.

Regarding your never once having attempted to cast Dia while soloing, many MMO players value maximizing their damage potential. In fact, people are often ridiculed when they do not do so. While I am guilty of "pinking" it up on jobs that I do not care about, and I will freely admit that I do not care about those jobs or even attempt to be a presentable dancer for example, I do everything I can to maximize my summoner's damage potential.

I must concede, though, that I can indeed kill things perfectly fine without Dia. Once again, however, summoner is the job I care most about, and a drop in my DPS that the developers did not even intend is unacceptable, especially after they insinuated that they were going to address the issue, and after they directly stated that the enmity generated by Dia II has been cut in half.

Edit:
Tsukino_Kaji, to encourage you to use your critical thinking skills before responding, I ask you to disregard the condescension and the namecalling that exist in my post. Even after disregarding those underhanded argumentative strategies that I confess to have utilized, I believe you will find a logical main idea in my post.

[Glamdring]

ok, my take, it's a little from both sides here. I don't think SE needs to increase enmity from pet damage, I just think they need to turn it on. i.e. If a sam did 2k damage in 5 non-TP hits he would have the enmity that doing 2k damage brings, but if my hippo pet does 2k damage in 7-9 non-TP hits he's apparently getting no enmity, and that ain't right. I understand the sam should have the hate, he did more damage faster, ducking fuh! But by the same token, if we get rid of the sam and I wade in and do 800 damage in the same time my pet did 2k (I'm an elf, I have issues hitting the ground when I drop dead) as far as I and logic are concerned my pet should be 1200 damage-generated enmity ahead, he isn't. That's a screw-up.

If a pet is part of our job's actions output by design (and it is, we aren't called pet jobs for nothing), then all of our damage should count. Now, I understand enmity with spells, JA, or maliciously munching Doritos in a mobs view is all calculated differently, it should nonetheless scale. It doesn't. This is a screw-up.

What is happening right now seems basically just an homage to all those bandwagon pet players that have never learned how to play the jobs, who solely throw a pet at prey and then basically stand there and watch. Long-time players who have always known how to do some moderate DD beside their pets are being penalized by the entire play mechanic that has been in place for about 10 years being invalidated. Now, I'm all in favor of the occasional job tweak, but trashing the entire concept of the job itself down to the inception level? And given the time-lines on adjustments recently this will probably remain the play mechanic pet jobbers are stuck with for about 2 years, at which point it's 50/50% on whether they'll fix it or just say we're all used to it by now and do nothing.

I'm sorry, I didn't spend all those game hours getting this good at playing beast to be told that from this day forth it's better to just mail it in-forever. Considering the game freezing issues and the making jug use mandatory I had already pretty much stopped playing my bst unless I was feeling nostalgic and didn't care about winning (losing because I'll freeze, lose pet and come back after restart to find myself dead at random intervals of 26-90 minutes). Now even that is gone. And since beast is-and always has been-my main job and 1st love in the game I ain't happy.

So, I'd like a definitive statement from SE. ARE we supposed to just mail it in from this day forth? Or on what date and time will enmity be resolved so that pets count in the calculation? and on what date and time can we expect our refunds for content ID charges collected under false pretenses should those enmity adjustments fail to occur?

[Areayea]

Just looking at some of these, Okiput did confirm that developers are planning to adjust avatars; now regarding other pet jobs BST is going to probably just get flat damage increases, and SMN they are going to adjust (which my guess is they'll increase the awful damage that we're stuck with right now), NurseryNazuna is feeling a bit sheepish ; ; so YAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY Upgrade ^^

[Zumi]

I noticed the throw a bunch of smns at a mob strat being used in Wildskeeper Reive a lot. I see a PLD holdling the boss with whm and support jobs while people put their avatars and BP it. Everyone else seems to be just running around killing adds on other jobs.