Suggestions for Improving Reives. Post yours here.

[Karbuncle]

Hello, I've noticed a lot of beef and upset rants regarding how 'difficult' Reives are, or how unfair the balance between support/DD Bayid/etc Obtaining is, and so on, so forth, So i'd like to see if we can gather some recommendations to give to the Devs. For one, i'll start off with my Suggestions, Some i've seen, and some not. Here we go.

Suggestions for Entering/Exiting:
-----------------------------------------
*Give us a Warning when Entering a Reive. sometimes you just want to walk around to get to your friends group, Which is hard/impossible in some situations. give us ~10 Seconds of limbo before entering a Reive.

*Give us Longer time when being booted, I'd say 10-15 Seconds would be nice. Pretty please?

*Expand the battlefield a bit. Right now if you die, You're pretty SoL because nowhere is safe, and you're either going to die a lot or be forced to exit. This is especially difficult on mage jobs, and support jobs, who are far more squishy. I know theres some fair degree of strategy involved, a solid tank holding them all, etc. But its quite difficult to destroy Barriers and hold mobs, that respawn quickly, with any amount of people involved.

*if you can't do the above, Remove the "Alliance/Everyone Hate" aspect, so when we die, even if others are fighting, we can safely heal up.

*Reduce Reentry from 10 minutes to 5, So if we are forced to leave (Say after dying), its only the duration of weakness.


Some Ideas regarding Battle itself.
-----------------------------------------------
*Reduce the Weakened State, similar to Besieged. If possible, grant us auto-Reraise when the battle is won/If won.

*I like the Reive Unity key item. Thank you.

*Possibly make Final Sting suck less?

*Whoever thought it was a good idea to have 5-6 Mobs with Knockback and potential stun moves in an arena the size of my mog house with a 5 second boot timer should be fired.

*Can we tone down AoE damage a tad? I had Protect up, Defender, and Still was dropped like a ton of bricks when 3-4 Whirl Claws went off at once for ~600 DMG, That doesnt even begin to describe how BS The Reives in Moh Gate is. Turtles + Slimes? it was f**king raining Jelly on everyone while the Turtles AoE Attack'd the remainders. The area was so tiny our mages couldnt even avoid the damage. I mean is the entirety of strategy for these to be Sleep > Rape the wall? way to stave off the zerg mindset.

* PleaseRe-evaluate Support/Healing job Exp/Bayid reward distribution with the idea they will not be meleeing. I read the explination of "Your goal is to destroy this/Kill that, so people who do that will get more exp" - Bubkiss! Without Support, those things killing are going to die and no one wins. the Support are every bit important as the ones actually doing the damage.

Two sides of the same coin. Make it to where being on a Support job isn't drawing the short end of the stick. There simply is no reason as a support job you're receiving ~80~200 Bayid per evaluation doing cures around the clock and hasting/etc, while the Perle DD over there afk with his pet is getting 300-400.

---------------

Thats all I can think off of the top of my head. please give your suggestions, and I'll add them to the OP.

From the Thread Suggestions:

Suggestions from people in the thread. My commentary in Bold.

1. Temps - RR scroll, couple of potions, ethers, catholicon, etc. Basically the same kind of stuff you get for Besieged. - Pretty sure the Peacekeepers Coalition adds these... We just havent unlocked them. "Coalition Potion" and "Coalition Ether" Exist in the dats
7. The bonus for ending a reive needs to be increased to about double of the current value.

[Karah]

You got basically every beef except one that I can add:

LOCATION. We'd (really) like to know where active reives are... without having to run around blindly.

[dragmagi]

Give more rewards per kill and/or assistance of kills. Also better explaination of how system works to lessen the confusion.

[TLGrunt]

I 2nd Karbuncle on final sting.. for the love of all that's Holy II please adjust it.

[Fynlar]

Make it so there's actually a reason to fight the mobs in a reive, or lower their respawn rate. As it is now, they serve no purpose other than to kill you and they respawn too fast for killing them to be worthwhile, so they just get Ochained or slept.

[Karbuncle]

If i recall right, Killing then gives you Reive Bonuses from the "Reive Unity" Key item, so they serve some semblance of purpose. Though i would like if they went ahead and increased their respawn a little.

[Duzell]

Any AoE Spell that inflicts DoT should be disabled under Reive combat status. I have seen players purposely using diaga/poisonga to prevent serious players from using the sleepga and zerg strategy. Since this is a griefing tactic not specifically against the ToS and GMs will do nothing about it, such spells should be disabled to prevent it. Spells include but are not limited to:
Geo-Poison
Indi-Poison
Poisonga
Diaga

[HimuraKenshyn]

Add the mobs that AOE to things that should suckless whirl claw went off like crazy never seen that many dead bodies lol....

[DaBackpack]

My thoughts.

1.) It's a really cool idea and I like that, but it's also REALLY annoying when there's an obstruction and you are by yourself and can't complete the Reive. Sometimes areas of the map are completely closed in by Knotted Roots!

2.) On the other hand, finding Reives is a pain. Implement Besieged's system: "Troll Mercenaries are approaching!", maybe like "A Colonization Reive has appeared at (F-6)!" and refresh that message every five minutes or so if nobody's found it.

3.) Too easy to die, imo. The linking behavior ensures that when one mob finds you, you're basically screwed unless you run far away (but not TOO far or else you're ejected from the battlefield).

4.) About running too far. Waiting 10 minutes to do another Reive is bad, especially when you ACCIDENTALLY enter a Reive and are penalized for it. What if you're just prevented from re-entering that Reive?

Just some initial thoughts/concerns. Like I said, it's a cool system and does many things right, but I'd like to see some of these things corrected somehow.

[Karbuncle]

Added some new points to battle section. good ieas so far guys, nice feedback.


As far as removing DoT Damage, this will do more harm than good.... I know it sucks to have that one d*ck ruin it, But best you can do is stop sleeping and let them die, or hold as few of mobs as possible... Nothing sucks worse than dying due to some other idiot, but i see a lot of PLD's using Diaga to try and gather mobs for super tanking, you may be dying entirely by accident.

[Luvbunny]

Great list, hope they actually read this and implement some badly needed adjustment in a week or two.

[Demon6324236]

My main problem with Reives is party hate, it prevents people from actually partying up, because just like WoE people want to stay out of a party for it, get rid of this problem here and in WoE!

[Morier]

For the love of all that is holy please expand the range before you get kicked out, or give more of a warning.

[Kyrial]

The original post pretty much covered everything I wanted to say. Right now reives are almost making me want to abandon Adoulin; it's just ridiculous.

[Theniz]

You got basically every beef except one that I can add:

LOCATION. We'd (really) like to know where active reives are... without having to run around blindly.

I fully agree, a system similar to brenner would be nice, where theres a zonewide notice giving us some idea as to where Colonization/Lair Rieves are. On Shiva there just one spot where everyone stands and waits for 1 particular Colonization Rieve because nobody really knows where to go. If you see another one while wandering looking for them, you pretty much just have to hope some others are there to help.

[Kyrial]

I fully agree, a system similar to brenner would be nice, where theres a zonewide notice giving us some idea as to where Colonization/Lair Rieves are. On Shiva there just one spot where everyone stands and waits for 1 particular Colonization Rieve because nobody really knows where to go. If you see another one while wandering looking for them, you pretty much just have to hope some others are there to help.

I guess this is more a server thing, as on Quetz, you can go out to Ceizak and there's usually a group running around from Reive to Reive. A BST friend of mine said the roots can be seen on Wide Scan, too, so that helps. :P

[SpankWustler]

Increasing the usable area would fix so many issues at once, so that's what I want more than anything else. Having a larger space to fight the animals who inexplicably guard giant roots would make it possible to get away from the AoEs, and it would also be harder to be sent out of range just by the knock-back from a monster's TP move.

Increasing the bayld rewards for support magic is a very close second. I have to melee the roots to get any Bayld at all on White Mage.

[Segasaturn]

One of my biggest problems with Campaign was NOT being able to get skill ups... When you die you cant Lose EXP so it sort of makes sense.

When i first Starting doing Reives I got lots of skill ups on my PUP and BLM, And now it seems i cant get any. Why did this change? did anyone else notice? Would everyone else Like to get skill ups? Please post about this so that we can raise the issue and maybe get back skill ups.

[Okipuit]

You got basically every beef except one that I can add:

LOCATION. We'd (really) like to know where active reives are... without having to run around blindly.

We are currently looking into creating system messages to indicate where reives are being formed.

[SpankWustler]

We are currently looking into creating system messages to indicate where reives are being formed.

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


http://www.stickboydaily.com/images/2012/03/im-fat-lets-party.jpg


WOO! WOO!

[hideka]

add an evaluation for hp healed by pet

[Luvbunny]

We are currently looking into creating system messages to indicate where reives are being formed.

Thank you for taking the first few steps in improving the new activities. Hopefully more updates will follow soon and making it more fun and enjoyable for all players of any levels to participate regardless of gears and skills.

[HimuraKenshyn]

Doh lol melee reduced... >.>
Apr. 4, 2013 04:00 [PDT] From: FINAL FANTASY XI
FINAL FANTASY XI Version Update (Apr. 4)
At the following time, a version update was performed on FINAL FANTASY XI.
[Date & Time]
Apr. 4, 2013 at 3:30 (PDT)
[Affected Service]
- FINAL FANTASY XI
[Update Details]
The following adjustments have been made:
- Evaluation points have been adjusted for reives.
Evaluation points have increased for enhancement, healing, and magic attack spells. Evaluation points for melee attacks, which were easier to obtain, have been reduced.
?
- The message explaining that experience points and bayld were not gained due to the minimum value not being reached will no longer appear when an evaluation occurs.

They giveth and have to take away lol melee reduced >.>

[Lotto]

Allow us to get through them if we don't have the Reive mark or make them depop for a few minutes. While the system itself isn't bad, we shouldn't have to wait for hours for people to show up to a Reive just to be able to check a ??? on the other side for a quest.

[Horadrim]

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


http://www.stickboydaily.com/images/2012/03/im-fat-lets-party.jpg


WOO! WOO!

How about adding a marker to the compass that indicates where reives are if you're within 500 (maybe more?) yalms of one?

I feel like we don't use the compass enough.

EDIT:

Or maybe something like Clear Abyssite? Rest and it tells you the direction/distance to a reive.

[Miiyo]

Suggestion: Use test server.

I'm never buying a product at launch with ffxi again. I will have to see in game action live first before i buy it.

Let's play what if. What if Orvail, Pak, and Thurandaut were easily able to be obtained in the first week and lots of RELEVANT basic stats that surpassed all but Neo Salvage, Nyzul, etc? What would be the reaction of those who have not gotten the expansion yet and are in the older areas? Even further if they were told that there was even MORE and BETTER gear that isn't as easy to get. What if, in week 1, a pretty large amount of players already reaped VISIBLE benefits of purchasing Adoulin? What if Reive were ready at the start? What if players would've been able to catch that mages aren't fit to revie's current state and that they weren't getting ANY points at first by utilizing the test server? What if rewards were given to players on the test servers that test EVERY job in Reive and leave feedback on amount of exp and bayld gained and the play of said job?

We put up with the mindset of "let's throw this at them and see how they like it" all last year with the content revisions. FFXIV should've shown you can't pull that mentality when releasing something people pay for.

[Vivivivi]

Longer warning time before being removed from participation and/or shorter cooldown for being able to participate again.

[Karah]

I'm really, really, REALLY sick of getting killed for other peoples failures. Did I mention REALLY sick of it?

If you can't handle the enemies on whatever job you're on, stop F*CKING ATTACKING THEM. When you die, your mob attacks the next closest person without provocation, and probably links two more.

Now, this is usually a weakened person trying to hide on the edge of the MINISCULE battlefield, who has ZERO chance of survival, or a person trying to attack the tree with no defense gear on, resulting in being hit 1-3 times for FOUR HUNDRED DAMAGE PER ATTACK before they can even turn around and engage said monster. Resulting in their death, and the chain just goes on and on and on. Until it's a full scale wipe, and its -YOUR F*CKING FAULT-

Obviously, square has no intention of changing the way these work, (except for making it worse), so do EVERYONE a favor and come prepared to kill at least one mob when you attack it, or just don't participate, cause you're bring us all down as a whole.

[Godofgods]

When you do a coalition quest you get to vote at the end. But if you use 3 impentarus does that count as 3 votes? Or are you stuck doing them 1 by 1 and voting each time (to get max value)? Since you cant see the total votes, theres no real way to tell. Was hoping a rep would chime in'

ill repost that comment here. If you are stuck 1x1, maybe consider 3 impentaru things = 3 votes.

[Luvbunny]

I'm really, really, REALLY sick of getting killed for other peoples failures. Did I mention REALLY sick of it? Obviously, square has no intention of changing the way these work, (except for making it worse), so do EVERYONE a favor and come prepared to kill at least one mob when you attack it, or just don't participate, cause you're bring us all down as a whole.

You and me both... a bunch of melee with zerg mentality who just ignore your shouts and go zerg for roots or running around while being pecked to death (like that would help LMAO - no one is going to heal you since mages were non existent previously). Usually they would aggro the entire area and hoping that by bringing the whole link next to the sneak/invisible BST, we gonna hop along and help them lol.

[raps1355]

Lower the reentry time to 2 mins
Increase the time to get back in range to 15 secs.
Remove shared hate system so players biting off more than they can chew dont "pass it on"
Auto reraise after reive ends.
Removal of reive status if you have been dead for 5 mins.

Also see alot of people saying they dont know where to go, i find this odd as the reives repop in exactly the same spot every hour. Could use map markers to track them.

[bigdave]

we need some npc's that will raise and also need better information about position

[Shadax]

1. Temps - RR scroll, couple of potions, ethers, catholicon, etc. Basically the same kind of stuff you get for Besieged.
2. Increase boot warning by at least 10 more seconds.
3. Give us a entry warning notice of the same duration before reive status takes effect.
4. Reduce re-entry penalty to a maximum of 5 minutes.
5. Auto-reraise upon ending of reive.
6. Give us an incentive for killing the mobs. This would be a good way to replenish temps or make the knotted roots take more damage the less mobs are alive.
7. The bonus for ending a reive needs to be increased to about double of the current value.

[Karbuncle]

1. Temps - RR scroll, couple of potions, ethers, catholicon, etc. Basically the same kind of stuff you get for Besieged.

Peacekeepers Coalition I think might do this with Emblem. Increases "Frontline Provisions".


4. Reduce re-entry penalty to a maximum of 5 minutes.

Already planned i think.


6. Give us an incentive for killing the mobs. This would be a good way to replenish temps or make the knotted roots take more damage the less mobs are alive.

Killing enemies triggers Reive Unity Bonuses, which are very helpful. VERY Helpful. increased Attack, Accuracy, HP/MP, 300% TP, 2hour renewed, so on. Plus, Killing enemies elongates battles a fair amount and increase the Exp/Bayld received by everyone by a fair amount, not only due to elongated battles, but because more damage all around... If you're following people who dont think they should kill them, They're doing it wrong and you need to tell them how stupid they are.

I did add two of your suggestions to the OP however :) thanks for the contribution.

[Kojo]

Random thought; make "Campaign:" weapon skills activate in Reives. Odd idea, I know, but think of how Uriel Blade would do for PLD super-tank. Secondly, make them questable, not in the sense you have full time access, but only access during Campaign and Reives. Just a thought to throw out there.

[Caketime]

Also see alot of people saying they dont know where to go, i find this odd as the reives repop in exactly the same spot every hour. Could use map markers to track them.

I spent an entire afternoon doing exactly this in Ceizak and Yahse, and noticed that more and more Reives were popping up as colonization increased and Pioneers spread through the zones. At this point it's impossible to walk outside and run a track around the zone without running into at least 4 Reives, not counting Lairs.

[saevel]

Killing enemies triggers Reive Unity Bonuses, which are very helpful. VERY Helpful. increased Attack, Accuracy, HP/MP, 300% TP, 2hour renewed, so on. Plus, Killing enemies elongates battles a fair amount and increase the Exp/Bayld received by everyone by a fair amount, not only due to elongated battles, but because more damage all around... If you're following people who dont think they should kill them, They're doing it wrong and you need to tell them how stupid they are.

It's my understanding that killing mobs nets you zero credit for bayld, that you need to hit the root for damage to register. Is this correct or would someone who exclusively killed adds get bayld rewards? I say this because when I did revive I must of killed a ton of adds and never got any reward for it, eventually I just stopped messing around as it was clearly broke.

[Caketime]

It's my understanding that killing mobs nets you zero credit for bayld, that you need to hit the root for damage to register. Is this correct or would someone who exclusively killed adds get bayld rewards? I say this because when I did revive I must of killed a ton of adds and never got any reward for it, eventually I just stopped messing around as it was clearly broke.

You had the Logging skill quest already done, right?

[LCofPandy]

Go back to the way reives were giving good exp/bayld. I think if they did this people start doing them again. Lets face it, that's the best reward from doing these damn things.

[Karbuncle]

It's my understanding that killing mobs nets you zero credit for bayld, that you need to hit the root for damage to register. Is this correct or would someone who exclusively killed adds get bayld rewards? I say this because when I did revive I must of killed a ton of adds and never got any reward for it, eventually I just stopped messing around as it was clearly broke.

Depends on your job i guess. if I'm on PUP, tanking a mob/taking damage/pet cures, I get good Exp/Bayld.

I mean, I get way more punching the roots because its consistent flowing damage, and Cures/Enhancing seem to either still suck of Pets were excluded from the buffs... But I still got Exp/Bayld from killing mobs, Lots o' em.

[Luvbunny]

Why don't you....as a developer, figure out a way to make Reive EXCITING, WORTH WILE and ADDICTIVE. You see this old musty content, aka Abyssea..... why don't you learn a thing or three from it. Change it so that SoA is for lvl 75-99. Please be smart, lowering the entry level will means more people see A REASON to buy and play the new expansion. Stop with the retarded LVL 99 only....

Make it so that Reive is an alternative way to get xp and bayld from lvl 75-99. Learn from Campaign!!! The mob pop super fast, which is amazing. Make them easier to kill - and all get 200-400 xp per kill. Throw random golden glow mobs that will give you 1000 xp - 1k bayld if you kill them, make it a bit higher level as well, 103 or something.

This way people can get a level doing this, cap it so that xp is 40k ish with 6-8k bayld cap at 30 mnts per reive. And you must do something to be eligible. Grant auto reraise. And temp items random every 5 mnts, say 2 random temp items that stacks till you use them.

ADD a GOV/Dominion Page version in ALL those NPCs colonization in the jungle. This way people have REASONS to kill 5 mobs for auto repeat xp and bayld. And more people will see reasons to GROUP, Duo or Trio. New areas will actually be a good alternative to EXP outside Abyssea.

Let us skill ups FASTER, in the 0.3-0.5 digit when under ionis effect and doing reive. This way more people will do this. And for god sake, stop thinking we are dumb. We can see what you are trying to do. We gladly pay and play more if the content is actually fun and we are getting something worth wasting our time whacking more roots.

[Kristal]

Make it so that Reive is an alternative way to get xp and bayld from lvl 75-99. Learn from Campaign!!! The mob pop super fast, which is amazing. Make them easier to kill - and all get 200-400 xp per kill. Throw random golden glow mobs that will give you 1000 xp - 1k bayld if you kill them, make it a bit higher level as well, 103 or something.
I like the idea of NM reive mobs that rarely spawn in place of a killed regular mob, but instead of xp/bayld, have it add an additional item at the end of a reive. This item could be Seekers unique, or one of many upgrade items needed for magian trials. Everyone loves a surprise alexandrite, heavy metal plate or even some dynamis currency!


This way people can get a level doing this, cap it so that xp is 40k ish with 6-8k bayld cap at 30 mnts per reive. And you must do something to be eligible. Grant auto reraise. And temp items random every 5 mnts, say 2 random temp items that stacks till you use them.
Content is meant for lvl 99, so leveling isn't the prime concern. Merits are only 10k, and most people are capped on those as well. Reive Unity and coalition upgrades already give reive improvements, although additional temp items couldn't hurt.


ADD a GOV/Dominion Page version in ALL those NPCs colonization in the jungle. This way people have REASONS to kill 5 mobs for auto repeat xp and bayld. And more people will see reasons to GROUP, Duo or Trio. New areas will actually be a good alternative to EXP outside Abyssea.
There are Gather reives that require mob drops, and there is at least one quest that asks you to kill x mobs that seems to be repeatable. Unfortunately those mobs are bees, and you can't leave the zone or it'll reset, but it's there.


Let us skill ups FASTER, in the 0.3-0.5 digit when under ionis effect and doing reive. This way more people will do this. And for god sake, stop thinking we are dumb. We can see what you are trying to do. We gladly pay and play more if the content is actually fun and we are getting something worth wasting our time whacking more roots.
Go do Mummers' Coalition reives and vote on the Coalition Flag upgrade. This adds Minor Combat Skill Gain Rate and Minor Magic Skill Gain Rate to Ionis. Their Emblem seems to add Treasure Hunter effect to Ionis as well.

[Karbuncle]

I do severely love the idea that a "NM" Reive monster can spawn... Could, upon defeat, give everyone in the battle like, 500exp/Bayld and have a chance/Higher chance to distrobute a Skirmish Piece.

This would add a lot more fun to Baylds, and even a reason for people who don't understand how to maximize their Bayld to kill Enemies

[Monchat]

make the reives last shorter, reduce rock/root's HP. Palm tree are ok. In morimar where nobody goes it take 15~20minute (with 1 DD) whacking at a rock to progress through the zone, it is not fun at all.

[hiko]

It's my understanding that killing mobs nets you zero credit for bayld, that you need to hit the root for damage to register. Is this correct or would someone who exclusively killed adds get bayld rewards? I say this because when I did revive I must of killed a ton of adds and never got any reward for it, eventually I just stopped messing around as it was clearly broke.
was anybody else hiting the roots? (i bet no)

evalution cap is based on total damage dealt to the roots by anybody in reive
individual evalution is based on what you do and cap at the eva cap.

so if you do 10k on mobs but nobody hit the root you get an eva caped @0
if there is 100 people hiting the roots(for same dmg), eval cap is maxed but everybody get low reward because they only deal 1% dmg total

[Fynlar]

Attacking roots = you're guaranteed to get bayld
Attacking mobs = you might only get bayld if other people are attacking roots, otherwise you don't get jack

If they want to make people have a reason to go after reive mobs, this is something that needs to get addressed. Because as it stands, there's little to no *tactical* reason to do anything to the mobs other than Sleepga or Ochain tank them because of how quickly they respawn.

The reive unity bonuses thing isn't an incentive, because I've had plenty of reives where the mobs were just slept/Ochained and ignored and only the roots were being attacked, and we were still getting tons of bonuses.

[Karbuncle]

While there is no tactical bonus, theres a smart-person bonus.

Having only 3-4 DD Focus on the Roots while others kill Enemies (Sleepga / focus 1 on 1) elongates battles and maximizes overall Bayld for everyone involved, and is far more efficient than zerging the roots. Plus, we already know Colonization is broke cause they're looking to adjust it, so zerging roots for that reason isn't really sound or logical til thats fixed...

Though, I would like to say, I'm adding your idea to the OP, that being, Killing anything in the battlefield should yield Exp/bayld... I didnt get jumped on exp/notes because i was killing Normal-Quadav and not the big baddy >_>

[Concerned4FFxi]

I'd like to know about the balancing issue i'm having on PLD. I get no reward for super tanking while taking zero damage or close to zero because of good damage taken set + phalanx and ochain.

The rating system should take a look at total amount of damage midagated, as well, when determining rewards/xp/bayld. Include shield blocks activated, parries, attacks evaded, and counters proc's also.

[Kristal]

I'd like to know about the balancing issue i'm having on PLD. I get no reward for super tanking while taking zero damage or close to zero because of good damage taken set + phalanx and ochain.

The rating system should take a look at total amount of damage midagated, as well, when determining rewards/xp/bayld. Include shield blocks activated, parries, attacks evaded, and counters proc's also.

Maybe SE could add reive versions of the campaign weapons? Then you could Glory Slash/Uriel Blade for points, while staying safe in your impervious shieldwall.

[Karah]

It's entirely too difficult to target the obstacles, they're only target able from certain angles, buried within objectively pointless objects (lol)

Can you make the targets larger or place the attack point above the obstacle instead of (inside).

F8 does -not- target the root/rock, it targets the mobs on the other side...

(attempting) to tab through the 40 people attacking the obstacle is really obnoxious.

[Svens]

While my idea sounds technically difficult, may as well suggest it. This would apply to any event that involves evaluation such as Campaign, Besieged, Walk of Echoes, and Reives. It's been stated that SE is afraid of giving support/healing jobs too much credit for their actions as it would lead to cure cheating and song/buff spamming. To combat this, I propose that any healing/buffing done on another character that has earned a higher evaluation gets some of their evaluation transferred/copied over to the healer/supporter.

This way, simply cure cheating or spamming buffs in a corner repeatedly does nothing, but spamming buffs/cures on a DD/tank targeting the mobs/NM/objective will yield a decent amount of points, like it should. I've recently done all of these evaluation events as a DD and Sch pair and it's kinda sad that the sch keeping me alive gets significantly less points excelling at their job versus me auto attacking and wsing.

[hiko]

I'd like to know about the balancing issue i'm having on PLD. I get no reward for super tanking while taking zero damage or close to zero because of good damage taken set + phalanx and ochain.

The rating system should take a look at total amount of damage midagated, as well, when determining rewards/xp/bayld. Include shield blocks activated, parries, attacks evaded, and counters proc's also.

PLD/RDM(thf dnc or nin) equip a dagger and edge everything, or you could just adjust your pdt set so you take a little more dmg and cure yourself

[Kristal]

(attempting) to tab through the 40 people attacking the obstacle is really obnoxious.

It is, which is why it's smarter to /assist on a player attacking the reive target.

[Motenten]

It's my understanding that killing mobs nets you zero credit for bayld, that you need to hit the root for damage to register. Is this correct or would someone who exclusively killed adds get bayld rewards? I say this because when I did revive I must of killed a ton of adds and never got any reward for it, eventually I just stopped messing around as it was clearly broke.

Bit of a late response, but this is my understanding of the evaluation system:

1) You get XP commensurate with the actions you perform. Like Campaign, this includes damage done, damage taken, amount cured, statuses removed, etc. Each category has its own cap, so performing actions in all categories gains you the most total XP per evaluation.

2) You get Bayld proportionate to the amount of damage that has been done to the roots during the evaluation. The total Bayld amount cannot be higher than your XP evaluation value.

The simplest approach is having everyone attack the roots while the mobs are slept. However that's non-optimal for almost everyone involved.

The Bayld distribution is evenly split among all participants. So, say there's 20 players and 10,000 total Bayld paid out, giving each player 500 Bayld. You only get 500 Bayld if you did at least 500 XP-worth of damage during that period, which, vs the roots, is unlikely except for the strongest of DDs since the roots take reduced damage (severely limiting damage output relative to player strength, and thus reducing actual XP reward). Most players will not have done enough to get the full Bayld payout (ie: if your XP and Bayld are the same, you're in this situation).

The optimal gain for all players is when everyone gains more XP than is paid out in the Bayld split. In order to do that, you want only a few people on the roots, and most people on the mobs. The fast mob respawn rate means that there should generally always be some mobs out for players to beat on. Lots of AOE damage means lots of opportunities for curing, both of which gain you more XP as well. Get lots of XP, and that means you have sufficient buffer to gain all of the Bayld that is being generated by the people on the roots.

People on the roots should be those who can do lots of damage there -- the stronger DDs, or those using AOE weaponskills to compensate for lesser damage on the roots themselves (since the AOEs can do damage to surrounding mobs), along with some curing and such. Support and tank jobs should not be on the roots (unless there's nothing else to do) since they won't be able to do enough to maximize their XP meter each evaluation. They generally do better focusing on the mobs, and curing people (gathering up in a party so that you can curaga can also gain you quite a bit).

Note that if you constantly cycle through reives, you actually have about 15 minutes to complete each one (in Ceizak, anyway). That means you can be quite leisurely in your progress, and not worry about killing the roots ASAP, allowing everyone participating to build up sufficient XP each eval that they can get their full Bayld payout. Unfortunately people have more of a zerg mentality, finishing each reive in maybe 5 minutes, and probably having most people get only half of their total potential payout.



The best I've managed in a reive is a total of about 4000 Bayld (only hit that once). On dnc (a mix of damage and curing keeping XP high) I can usually get around 3000-3500. On rdm I could get 2500 in some reives, but under 1500 in others (butterflies in particular) due to having difficulty raising my XP score. Mnk was generally fairly solid around 2500, but limited because I couldn't do much aside from straight damage, so my XP was just hitting the category cap.

So based on my experience, I'd guess that the total payout of all the damage done to the roots is 4000 Bayld. The amount you actually get depends on how well you can keep ahead of the damage being done to the roots. The more people on the roots, the less likely that is.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Expand all reive fighting areas, it's way too small of an area to fight in.

Double duration of warning for out of bounds, add a <call> to the warning itself.

Address the lag, there's not even many 99GEO's yet in reive, I'd hate to see a few. . .

Shorten penality to five minutes if you exit a reive, make it so the penality for exiting a reive is only for that zone, I hate it if I pass thru a liar reive on my way thru a zone i can't start in the reive on the other side for ten minutes, just because a lair reive was up and it was in the way . . .

[Luvbunny]

The biggest problem is that explanation on how you do Reives and getting rewards are VAGUE at best. People do not really go out and seek information other than hopefully someone will tell me what to do, or I will just follow what others do. Right now the rewards are not evenly distributed, melee still gets more rewards than mages (even the mages who can do it all).

And worst of all, everyone is so dumb that they hit the roots over and over instead of FOCUS on the mobs and FARM bayld this way. They don't listen even if you try to explain how to do it the right way, most 80-90% of them will come as melee jobs because the lag is very horrible, it's easier to auto attack the roots and ignore everything else. The roots destroyed in 3-5 mnts, everyone gets 500-1000k bayld, then back to auto follow the crowd, or sitting AFK for 50 mnts till repop time. Fun, fun, fun indeed....

[detlef]

It's entirely too difficult to target the obstacles, they're only target able from certain angles, buried within objectively pointless objects (lol)

Can you make the targets larger or place the attack point above the obstacle instead of (inside).

F8 does -not- target the root/rock, it targets the mobs on the other side...

(attempting) to tab through the 40 people attacking the obstacle is really obnoxious.This. The root/rock is obscured except at exactly the right angle. You have to tab through players, tab through mobs on this side or the other side, all the while positioning yourself to be able to see the target.

To the poster who suggested assisting someone already attacking it, that's a decent workaround but does not address the problem at all. Sometimes the target you want to attack is not being meleed. Plus you lose valuable time not doing anything.

[Karbuncle]

I've tried the assist thing, While its helpful, sometimes its hard to even find names of people in the crowd when you got a lot of people fighting, you might turn down Players displayed or so forth... Its a good work around for a mild-severe inconvenience, but I do think a proper resolution for it would be nicer. Though IDK what they could do... I'll be adding a few more ideas to the OP, I really like them. Keep em coming :D

[Concerned4FFxi]

Somehow, someone has been able to make reive's even more annoying. WTF is up with Morimar Basalt Fields??? The mobs spam AOE, stun, AND knockback, turning your player around even! That, plus the enimty being still screwed up, makies the most annoyingly cheesy mobs in a long time. I don't mind difficult, I hater cheesy. give them 1000 attack, i don't care, just WTF is up with knockback in reive? It's bad enough of a grind as it is, but were the hell is the fun in this bullshit??? Get over there and play a reive in that place and tell me you'd want to pt there.

SE really knows how to annoy people.

Not only does the zone have crooked and difficult spots to tank but the mobs are so cheesy . . .

I wouldn't dream that the DEV will fix the moves of these mobs or rep them with a different, harder but less chessy one, after all I still only see 4 when I have 5 shadows up for utsusemi, so that kinda gives me the impression that once SE looks at something, if it dodn't get fixed at t5hat time it never will.

[Alpheus]

You wouldn't believe how fun it gets once a summoner or two decide to join in.

[Luvbunny]

You wouldn't believe how fun it gets once a summoner or two decide to join in.

LOL please do share what fun are you talking about. With the hate issue being wonky, summoner usually dead within seconds being pecked to death and swarmed by mobs. Avatar doesn't last that long, unless you are doing Shiva and Ramuh rotation. Even then you still have to deal with the "whack da root" and the mobs, or none will receive good amount of bayld. Let's just hope tomorrow updates will FIX many of the issues we have been having. If they don't fix it, you can just unsub for 6 months, usually that's the minimum amount they may do some tweaks. A year is the normal turn around time for them to adjust things. Heck we still have no news on Cait Sith, Atomos, and TH gears to enhance our pet.

[Alpheus]

I was doing Reives around JP time and the SMNs that were about were actually pretty useful, their heals hit everyone and as a DRK I could wreck the obstacle without having to worry about a thing. The fun part came w/ the lag, like..... severe lag (below 5 frames per second). Granted the comp I primarily play on is quite old but not that old. Anyways while frustrating I still trucked on cuz I was getting decent Bayld so frustration was worth it. If anything just makes me wonder why people don't ask SE to implement a ON/OFF switch for the glowy effect that are in use for a variety of in game models.

[Urthdigger]

I really wish they'd increase the range you could fight the mobs in. It can be rather difficult to pull a mob someplace where you won't get links/aggro from respawning monsters, so unless you're capable of supertanking a group of mobs or have an army of folks doing the reive, you're kinda boned.

[Kristal]

I really wish they'd increase the range you could fight the mobs in. It can be rather difficult to pull a mob someplace where you won't get links/aggro from respawning monsters, so unless you're capable of supertanking a group of mobs or have an army of folks doing the reive, you're kinda boned.

That problem varies between areas. Ceizak/Yahse is cramped because most of the reive space is unpassable terrain, and you only got a small road to fight on. Morimar on the other hand has the full area available, with only the chasm unpassable, and the mobs remain in the middle so you can pull them to the side. You can solo or lowman reives in Morimar with ranged attacks or pets, although even a PUP takes like 2 hours. (I've seen RNG and SMN try to do it, but their damage output is a fraction of a pet-geared PUP.)

[Landar]

maybe give all "active" participants equal bayld for the trouble? ...by "active" I mean doing stuff to the enemies/allies/objective, not standing like a log, leeching.

[Kristal]

The reive messages are nice, but Lair Reives suffer from a large number of false positives: people running through the area without engaging any targets. Also, some reives end so quickly, that by the time you get there, it's over...
So two more messages would be nice:
* The colonization reive at (G-9) was a success.
* All participants in the lair reive at (G-9) have fled.

[Allison]

I think two changes would drastically improve Reives, specially colonization ones:

*Increase the battlefield area, current ones are way too small and turn into a fuster cluck real fast, by doubling the sides you make it safer to pull and fight by not eating TP moves left and right at the same time weakened combatants can rest safely without being forced to exit.

*Decrease the spawn rate of enemy mobs, the way it is right now you are pretty much forced to super-tank because it's nigh impossible to keep up with respawn rates.