Imbalance when aquiring EXP/Bayld

[Raksha]

Thread Title:
Extremely difficult to earn EXP/Bayld when doing rieves

Platform:
PC

ISP/type of connection:
bellsouth fast access DSL

Internet Connection Speed: Not sure

Date & Time:
Wednesday,March 27th, ~11pm CDT


Frequency:
Always (or never, depending how you look at it)


Character Name:
Raksha

Race:
Hume F

World:
Lakshmi

Main Job:
SCH

Support Job:
RDM

Area and Coordinates:
Ciezak (spelling) battlegrounds? ~I-8 i think?

Party or Solo:
Party

NPC Name:
None

Monster Name:
Chapuli and root wall things


Steps:
Spent 20 minutes curing party members and buffing, etc during "Clear the Way" and never recieved any EXP or Bayld. The DD in my party would occasionally get exp or bayld, but i would always get a red message stating that I received none. Other people on BG have also reported the same thing, so i'm fairly sure it isnt just me.

This leads to a rather large imbalance between DD jobs and support jobs.

[Caketime]

Don't be surprised when the official response is "working as intended". It likely has something to do with the nature of the battleground system in place for those areas, to ensure that a mage type can't go in and get easy exp by spamming support magic. It's a wonder they don't just state "FU healers" in the explanation given by the NPC in town.

[Thundarian]

I appear to be getting no Bayld or Xp for anything my pets do as a summoner, be it damage to anything, healing, or buffing, so the only way I can get bayld / xp is bashing things with my staff...

[Snowlock]

Confirmed. During testing on 3/28, WHM effectively casting Curing, Enhancing, Enfeebling and Divine damage spells generates no participation credit, thus no EXP/Bayl rewards, for Reive events. When roots, for example, are vulnerable to damage, melee damage generates a negligible amount of participation credit.

Switching to a DD job and causing melee damage, I am unable to replicate this condition, and participation is measured normally.

In my experience, there is little reason apart from altruism to bring a caster to these events until this condition is corrected.

Edit: I've read some preliminary reports that it's necessary to attack the Knotted Root during Colonization Reives in order to get participation credit. If true, it's a hostile requirement, but that might explain some of the troubles we're seeing.

[Fiddler]

Same with bard. Lullabies, party buffs, requiems add up to 0 exp 0 bayld, thats with all the cures and what~nots thrown in from whm sub. Thought i was just missing a cs somewhere, but i see i'm not the only one having this problem

[Vivik]

All I have to say is how can this happen twice? This is the same crap that happened when campaign battles were released. You would think that SE would be better prepared for something like this but apparently not.

[Okipuit]

We've been seeing a lot of comments about reive evaluations and I wanted to give you all an update on the situation.


Healing is not being factored into evaluation
After taking a look into this, it was determined that there is a bug. We will be working to fix this along with enhancing magic and such so that they are properly factored into evaluation.


Difficulty being evaluated
By participating in reives, a score will be attributed to you character at certain points in time as your actions are evaluated. With this score, there is a cap set for how much experience points and bayld you can acquire.

For example, let’s say there is a rule where for melee attack evaluations for every 1000 damage you gain 10 points.


In the case of this rule:
5000 damage worth of melee attacks would result in 50 points.
900 damage worth of melee attacks would result in 0 points.


In other words, if you do not reach the minimum value you will not receive experience points and bayld when you are evaluated. Also, this value has been set separately for each action; however, because it has been set somewhat high, we will be making adjustments to the points given for this minimum value.

To give you an idea, we will change it so it is closer to 1 point for every 100 damage worth of melee attacks.


Post-adjustment:
5000 damage worth of melee attacks would result in 50 points. (no change from current)
900 damage worth of melee attacks would result in 9 points. (Points are gained)


To put it another way, we will be increasing the opportunities that you can receive experience points and bayld.

However, separate from this rule, evaluation will take place to estimate how much you accomplished the original goal.

Colonization reives’ main purpose is to clear the way of things that are obstructing colonization, so the goal would entail how much HP you cut off the obstacle. For lair reives, the goal entails how much HP you cut off the monster’s lair. Depending on how much HP you are able to damage these for, you will be able to receive a proportionate amount of experience points and bayld; however, if you are unable to damage their HP this will not be factored into your evaluation.


The aforementioned bug fix and adjustments are currently taking place, and will be reflected after the maintenance is over at 10:30am PDT. We apologize for the inconvenience.

[Calintzpso]

Found a great nest to nuke on from afar(game breaking I bet) to where the monsters didn't seem interested in me, except for the occasional lucky catch of sound on me, I'd sleep it and take care of it. I feel its justified because of the possible aggro for the long battle ahead of me, for to be allowed, don't go changing this please.

What I will say please change is your timing on those evaluation points. I'm sorry my fresh 99 Geo; which can out nuke a Full Teal Abby 3xAtma riddled BLM in dmg when I'm outside btw; isn't good enough for your standards in the point evaluations.

I made no points..SOLO, no baylds for MY SOLO attempt. I stayed from start to finish, getting constantly reminded every 2mins or so of no reward as I slowly ripped that nest down for the area. Only to have at the end of the Reive be told that I succeeded but was no eligible for any exp or points.

Complete. Bull. S***.

Fix this please. If I'm the only person killing the nest, why should I be subjected to this evaluation like that when its obvious that I'm doing ALL the work on it alone, no one else around! Not a soul! Get rid of the "You didn't make the cut" crud if you want this system to work. Instead put caps on things like enhancing and healing, and have them tied to time caps that expand the cap over time, and lastly cause i know just those two would break the system make it require moderate action on the objective at hand, either the Nest/Rock/Vine/etc. or a Local monster occasionally.

Basically you screwed up campaign at the start to the point people left it and never touch it, but you finally fixed it recently, 3 years to late. Get a jump on it. Look to whats happening right now, that works in campaign, and apply it to reives.

[Luvbunny]

Basically you screwed up campaign at the start to the point people left it and never touch it, but you finally fixed it recently, 3 years to late. Get a jump on it. Look to whats happening right now, that works in campaign, and apply it to reives.

Really hope they get to do the fixes ASAP within the next week or two - right now it is completely whacked. We also need auto reraise effect and a bunch of temp items distribute ASAP, more as you ranked up.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Please stop being dependent on temp items at 99...

[AinurBismarck]

I'm seeing a pretty big imbalance between going on DD and on mage/support/etc., which leads me to a question: How in the world does momentum work? I suppose it accounts for getting 500-700 exp/bayld on a melee job, but I seem to be stuck in the 0-150 range on any mage job no matter what I do, or how fast. I'm intrigued by reives; I think it's a good concept, fast-paced, lots to do, but it seems that there's a glaring difficulty when one aspect is both necessary and well-rewarded, while the other aspects are necessary and very poorly rewarded (if rewarded at all, which is typically my case on mage jobs). I can see Geomancer being very useful for reives, though.

As a result, as much as the system looks neat and has promise, I'll probably hold off on doing too many reives until something changes, or until more information is revealed about how momentum works. Even if the Thurandaut set looks nice.

[Louispv]

Really hope they get to do the fixes ASAP within the next week or two - right now it is completely whacked. We also need auto reraise effect and a bunch of temp items distribute ASAP, more as you ranked up.

Looks like Peacekeeper's coalition 3rd voting option gives temps. ( or lets you purchase them anyway) Too bad you people all choose the first option out of laziness.

[Plasticleg]

Yeah, SE really screwed up when implementing reives. Expecting a large amount of people to participate in these constantly, at this part of the game's life, is delusional.

[Nightide]

Tested 4 Reives in Yashe as BLM. After using manafont and other abilities and casting 2 full loads of spells, I only received 192 Balyd.

[Zohno]

My LS members are still not getting bayld or exp for support actions. Is it sure that this was fixed as said in the update?

[Karbuncle]

My LS Mates are getting a good chunk of Exp/Bayid, While its not on part with the heavy DD in the group, They're still getting it.

Personally though, I think they just design it with the idea the Support are going to melee as well, But thats super unlikely, Especially in the Cave ones i did with Slimes (Got hit with 700~800 Dmg per AoE from the slimes)... A Mage would just get raped.

I mean, From a design perspective the event is fun and fastpaced (for a decade old game), its just fresh out of the box, It needs some adjustments, Do something constructive and Make a list of Exact things you'd like changed, Why you want them changed, How it helps/Balances, and so forth. Make a new thread about it like countless people did for Campaign adjustments.

Make your voices heard, but do it coherently, without the bold letters, capslockcruisecontrol, and angry ranting, and starcade level angsty negativity.

[Caketime]

Make a list of Exact things you'd like changed, Why you want them changed, How it helps/Balances, and so forth. Make a new thread about it like countless people did for Campaign adjustments.

Make your voices heard, but do it coherently, without the bold letters, capslockcruisecontrol, and angry ranting, and starcade level angsty negativity.

No you. I'm too drunk to do it right now.

[bigdave]

so far i think that liar reives is a horrible concept nothing like getting one shotted on my mandu thf with about 600 evasion but i cant seem to dodge a bee. so much for the fun idea you guys suck

[bigdave]

what mage is gonna cast cures when they dont get any exp

[Pebe]

I get fine exp and bayld on my geo 99. I built a geo melee set and went on geo/dnc. I support my friends with my auras, the regen aura is really nice to keep up as well as the acc or refresh aura, then I hexa Strike/Realmrazer away. Its fun/easy and the points just rain in. Sure I probably don't get capped exp every evaluation but I get 500 bayld often during these evaluations. Also be warned, geo has almost 0 defense options as geo/dnc. Geo/dnc is best in a group to provide buffs / haste samba. That is all, have fun o/!

[Pebe]

Also, mage pdt- and mdt- sets are your friend!

[HimuraKenshyn]

However, separate from this rule, evaluation will take place to estimate how much you accomplished the original goal.

Colonization reives’ main purpose is to clear the way of things that are obstructing colonization, so the goal would entail how much HP you cut off the obstacle. For lair reives, the goal entails how much HP you cut off the monster’s lair. Depending on how much HP you are able to damage these for, you will be able to receive a proportionate amount of experience points and bayld; however, if you are unable to damage their HP this will not be factored into your evaluation.

Yeah the imbalance is crazy my support mages received half of the rewards of my heavy dd. Plus what sucks its that holding the mobs off the people killing the nest or knotted root helps as much as directly damaging the root. Since tanking multiple mobs allows people to kill the nest/root easily the people killing the mobs shouldn't be penalized its stupid if that is how it is working thank goodness for the pld super tanking when we didnt have enough peeps and was wiping like crazy....

[Stan64]

There are two coins to this issue.

The way it's set up now will benefit different groups and playstyles very very different. I see it as it's insanely hard to balance this. They wouldn't put up an equal reward system, people could just stand at the edge doing a dia at the root and wait for everyone else to to their job.

I think they will keep balancing this and look at it. But for now, find a way that works for you. Not much else to do.

One complaint I have is that if you partake a long time and die, and get up you somehow reset the end bonus and reive momentums. I can understand that, but it's a bit unfair. Especially when you aren't relieved of Reive status when you are dead so you can be raise from outside. BUT you lose it and get it back when you get up. That's a bit of a dick move, better have some momentums/bonus left as you get up.

[Babekeke]

There's a fairly simple fix to this: Make enfeebling magic give more exp/bayld, but only if it's not resisted, or has no effect. This prevents mages sleeping a mob and spamming spells on it, as eventually it will have all the buffs on it that it can have. Secondly, make curing spells offer more exp. Maybe not massively more, but at least some. If a lvl 50 whm comes out to spam cures on a super-tanking PLD so that they take no hate, let them get their 150 exp/bayld, they've still earned it.

[Miiyo]

I did a few short blm tests and here are 2. I basically went in from start to the first point tally. This is all just to show dmg to exp ratio. Focused on as much dmg as possible as quick as possible.

Blizzard V 2477; Fire V 2317; Thunder V 3082; Thundaja 2508, 2788
Total Dmg: 13172
689 mp remaining
Other Spells/JA used: Stoneskin, Manawell, Enmity douse, parsimony x2
369 exp 369 bayld
Beetles

Blizzard V 2560; Thunder V 2974; Blizajja 2174, 2174, 2174; Thundaja 3363
Total Dmg: 15419
153 mp remaining
Protection Spells/JA used: stoneskin, mana wall, parsimony x2, enmity douse
200exp 200 bayld
Bunnies

This one is from the first tally to the second tally
Fire III 723; Fire IV 1462; Blizzard III 1217; Blizzard IV 1869
Total Dmg: 5271
0exp 0 bayld
Spiders

Problems: Extremely low amount of points given. When a mage bottoms out on mp, having alot of mobs with aoe and some reive that just spawn numerous mobs, it's not very likely you'll get to rest back much mp. Some battles may be over by the time you do. You'd be depending on luck to hope for mp restoration buff. Fighting areas are too small to support mage play. You're going to be more towards the back as a mage. A good aoe attack can knock you out of the battle easily. The closer you are to the vines the higher your chances of dying in 2-3 attacks.

[Tiphareth]

If anyone has trouble with doing no damage on the tangled roots for evaluation at a colonization reive, then you need to do the quest to obtain "logging". You wont be able to do any damage at a reive on the roots until you do. Speak with the hume npc at the back of the tent at bivouac number one in Ceizak.