New weapons with higher base damage then relics

[Kojo]

I didn't read that they didn't have manpower in the post, what I got out of it was "We want to do this slowly, we always do things slowly, have patience", which isn't much better, but I do question who translated the "we may not have the manpower".

That was Camate, I believe.

[Nebo]

Ah, good old FFXI dev team. At least they are consistent with their failures.

They didn't even have a solid IDEA for a plan in place for RME before they developed and implemented this stuff?

BAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Nebo]

I didn't read that they didn't have manpower in the post, what I got out of it was "We want to do this slowly, we always do things slowly, have patience", which isn't much better, but I do question who translated the "we may not have the manpower".

He said it in his first post about this matter.

[Toioiz]

Anyone have a link? The one I found from this morning:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/33101-Lv99%E3%81%AE%E3%83%AC%E3%83%AA%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%80%81%E3%83%9F%E3%82%B7%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%80%81%E3%82%A8%E3%83%B3%E3%83%94%E3%83%AA%E3%82%A2%E3%83%B3%E3%81%8A%E3%82%88%E3%81%B3%E3%80%81%E3%82%B3%E3%82%A4%E3%83%B3%E6%AD%A6%E5%99%A8%E3%81%AB%E3%81%A4%E3%81%84%E3%81%A6

Doesn't mention it.

[Vivik]

Saying they don't have the manpower after just releasing an expansion is insulting. They need a better excuse.

[Nebo]

Anyone have a link? The one I found from this morning:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/33101-Lv99%E3%81%AE%E3%83%AC%E3%83%AA%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%80%81%E3%83%9F%E3%82%B7%E3%83%83%E3%82%AF%E3%80%81%E3%82%A8%E3%83%B3%E3%83%94%E3%83%AA%E3%82%A2%E3%83%B3%E3%81%8A%E3%82%88%E3%81%B3%E3%80%81%E3%82%B3%E3%82%A4%E3%83%B3%E6%AD%A6%E5%99%A8%E3%81%AB%E3%81%A4%E3%81%84%E3%81%A6

Doesn't mention it.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/31485-New-weapons-with-higher-base-damage-then-relics?p=424630&viewfull=1#post424630


In regards to this system, the outline has been finished; however, we have yet to test if what we have planned can be realized and if we can secure the proper amount of manpower to continue it. We are at a point in time right now where it's difficult to explain the details, so please allow us to discuss this another day.

[bryangelos]

My sister and I followed this game since before it was released in Japan. We played it the very day it was released in the US. My accounts remain active, and will be so into the unforseeable future.http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/ebb5f3b71633dcf51b73e66ddbc08fff.png
But this is not a contest, and my stance is not the only one that matters. Yours also matters. To an extent. The extent to which you're willing to make it matter. With your wallet. Thank you for your support thus far. It has been a large help, and I appreciate that it has gotten us this far and allowed us to see these changes to the world we love. Should you choose to rejoin us, I will gladly welcome you as my equal, nay, my friend.

Until then, you are actively aiding in the destruction of something I care for. I apologize, but it appears you and I must be enemies in this matter.

And by you supporting a company which is going against its roots i wish you to leave my game and never return for you are the true cancer and you are ruining MY game by supporting and paying for changes i disagree with!

I really don't understand why you think i should continue to pay se and not play the game. I don't want to do the our gear is outdated every update grind but i like the old model, so i WILL NOT PAY FOR THEM TO MOVE TO THIS MODEL. If i continue to pay them and don't play then they have no reason to listen. You are a complete fool if you think otherwise, you said you believe if you want something changed that you should help pay for it. Well i would if they have a update saying that this will not continue to be the trend, until that time happens i will not support them doing something i disagree with using MY MONEY! and i can give a **** about what you think about the game because i don't play it for you, i play it because i USE to enjoy it. You keep acting like your SE you pay them to play the game just like me, and if they ever do something you disagree with and it makes you quit. By all means i hope you quit and keep paying them money for a game your no longer playing because that makes lots of sense.

[Momokiri]

I almost wish he had just been more vague. The unlocking WS comment is flabbergasting. Now on top of unsure funding we're 100% sure they don't even understand why people are upset. Even ignoring that Mythic WSes are already unlocked, many of the Relic WSes are complete garbage (Spharai, Rag, etc.) and are the last reason anyone in their right mind would make the weapons.

[Ica]

I almost wish he had just been more vague. The unlocking WS comment is flabbergasting. Now on top of unsure funding we're 100% sure they don't even understand why people are upset. Even ignoring that Mythic WSes are already unlocked, many of the Relic WSes are complete garbage (Spharai, Rag, etc.) and are the last reason anyone in their right mind would make the weapons.

It's another perfect example of how out of touch they are with their playerbase.

[Sapphires]

I'm pretty sure the dev team have never made an R/M/E weapon in their life or can even full understand how many people are IN THE MIDDLE OF STILL MAKING ONE because they are a LONG TERM GOAL that takes 'A BIT OF EFFORT'.

If they understood that, they would have designed new weapons that were still desirable but didnt undermine all the past and present work people still put into RMEs.

I'd rather have them address RME to keep them relevant than add anymore adoulin content at this point.

Don't even get me started on how many mythic builders are getting the worst of it here, I hope you didnt turn in any alexandrites yet and were half done or anything...

[Asran]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/31485-New-weapons-with-higher-base-damage-then-relics?p=424630&viewfull=1#post424630

Those aren't the same thing. The one that Toioiz linked is talking about how people are upset about the scaling. (I can't translate it that well and Google translate doesn't help much.) It seems that many JP players are pretty livid about this too.

[Tannlore]

If I'm reading what Matsui posted there.. admittedly.. google translate is terribad....

We would get our WS and aftermath unlocked to use to any other weapon of our choosing of the same type? So these awesome new weapons, with the aftermath/WS of the R/E/M? You know what? I'm okay with that. Still get what I worked for, others still HAVE to build a R/E/M for it and I bet you.. still have to go to 99.

[Kojo]

If I'm reading what Matsui posted there.. admittedly.. google translate is terribad....

We would get our WS and aftermath unlocked to use to any other weapon of our choosing of the same type? So these awesome new weapons, with the aftermath/WS of the R/E/M? You know what? I'm okay with that. Still get what I worked for, others still HAVE to build a R/E/M for it and I bet you.. still have to go to 99.

Of R/M/E, you must be an E. Most people are angry about R, Relics. A relic WS and aftermath don't make two shits of difference, you don't build Relics or Mythics for the WS. Emps were all about WS and aftermath.

[ReplicaX]

So with the reorganization, SE is taking roughly 80-90% of XI's annual profit and funding console game development. The rest to maintain the game.

"Manpower issues with XI." aka the new "PS2 limitations"

Adjust the percentage then. Since Day One you've had monthly paying beta testers and a Game Engine that's never been completely overhauled.

[Doombringer]

i feel like occasionally attacking thrice, that can proc on subsequesnt WS's, and lasts 3 minutes... is a pretty big deal.


but it's all beside the point anyway. not all prestige weapons will be even close to equally affected by the rumored change, so it's not an ideal solution whether it's 1:3 or 2:3

[Kojo]

i feel like occasionally attacking thrice, that can proc on subsequesnt WS's, and lasts 3 minutes... is a pretty big deal.


but it's all beside the point anyway. not all prestige weapons will be even close to equally affected by the rumored change, so it's not an ideal solution whether it's 1:3 or 2:3

It's a big deal, but if I had Tizona, I wouldn't use Expiation over Vorpal Blade regularly, but if you take Death Penalty as an example, it's Quick Draw enhancements seem to give an extreme damage boost.

[Tannlore]

Of R/M/E, you must be an E. Most people are angry about R, Relics. A relic WS and aftermath don't make two shits of difference, you don't build Relics or Mythics for the WS. Emps were all about WS and aftermath.

Yeah, I'm an E. Though honestly, even without my aftermath, just taking Myrkr over to any other staff would be... absolutely amazing for me. Perp- or mab/phys staves and that.. just.. wow.

Thought I can see why Relic holders are upset, Apoc's Ws is cool and all, but without the haste.. why bother.... Then there's Gugnir...

Thought honestly (puts his flame suit on) having leveled these things and kept them "relevant" hurt the game in my opinion. It was time the game moved on finally. I just wished they picked a more... delicate way to move on that AH/Craftable weapons. >.<

[detlef]

Mythics are about the stats, not the WS or base dmg.What the heck? Mythics are ALL ABOUT THE AFTERMATH.

[detlef]

And Mythic owners have the most right to be upset. Not only can the WS be used by anybody, none of the WS are even worth using at this stage of the game unless you have the Mythic.

[Kojo]

And Mythic owners have the most right to be upset. Not only can the WS be used by anybody, none of the WS are even worth using at this stage of the game unless you have the Mythic.

A few are.

[detlef]

First be wrong about what makes Mythics good. Next pick on statement that a few mythic weapon skills may still be used today. Very well. That's fair. A few are still used today.

[Kojo]

First be wrong about what makes Mythics good. Next pick on statement that a few mythic weapon skills may still be used today. Very well. That's fair. A few are still used today.

Are you frustrated?

[Ica]

Are you frustrated?

That's a silly question. I think most people posting in this thread are pretty damn frustrated, wouldn't you say?

[detlef]

Are you frustrated?Yup. You were wrong about something. I corrected you. Instead of acknowledging that you don't know why people make Mythic weapons, you picked on the fact that some people do continue to use weapon skills like Drakesbane and Stringing Pummel. You're absolutely right about that, and I misspoke.

With that in mind, knowing that aftermath is the reason people make Mythics (specifically melee weapons) and that Mythic weapon skills can be unlocked by anybody, can you see why it might be frustrating if Matsui's "solution" is to transfer RME weapon skills to Delve weapons?

[Kojo]

That's a silly question. I think most people posting in this thread are pretty damn frustrated, wouldn't you say?

Indeed. I, too, am quite perturbed.

[Unctgtg]

I have been a relic owner since 2006 and SE has always come through by boosting our stats to make ours on top again (R/M/E). I have no doubt they will do it again, but be prepared to do some insane trials again. I remember the 9500 Kill shots we had to do before they nerfed them. I remember the months and months of endless killing solo. So just give them time.

[Zumi]

I have been a relic owner since 2006 and SE has always come through by boosting our stats to make ours on top again (R/M/E). I have no doubt they will do it again, but be prepared to do some insane trials again. I remember the 9500 Kill shots we had to do before they nerfed them. I remember the months and months of endless killing solo. So just give them time.

We getting unlocked WS
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/33112-Level-99-Relic-Mythic-Empyrean-and-WoE-Weapons?p=427149#post427149

Ok guess our weapons really are not going to be used anymore.

[Nebo]

some people do continue to use weapon skills like Drakesbane and Stringing Pummel.

I could see Mandalic Stab maybe making a comeback as well against super duper NMs? THF's Multi hit weapon skills aren't all that that hot against high level shtuff.

[Kojo]

I could see Mandalic Stab maybe making a comeback as well against super duper NMs? THF's Multi hit weapon skills aren't all that that hot against high level shtuff.

Mandalic Stab is pretty nice SA'd, TA'd, or SATA'd. Other than that... Nope.

[Nebo]

Mandalic Stab is pretty nice SA'd, TA'd, or SATA'd. Other than that... Nope.

That would be the point.

[Zhronne]

Really... I don't know what's in their heads.
You don't introduce such a big change in game (new weapons etc) without having a CLEAR PATH in your mind.
They acted in a superficial way, ignoring possible consequences, with an attitude that made them think "we'll think about solutions later, but only if people whine! If they don't we'll have it easy guys"

What is this, exactely? They're digging themselves a hole deeper and deeper and deeper with each new post over the last weeks, this is... unbelievable really.

[Camiie]

I'm gonna post this here as the original thread is probably doomed to deletion:


Okay, guys, do you happen to realize how many people in your game have spent months to freaking YEARS to obtain relics, mythics, empyreans? Yeah... A LOT OF US!!!

They know exactly how many people have them. Just refer to the Census.


Do you realize how much work it is to obtain these things? You must, you made them, after all. So, let me spell this out for you, since you're so fucking retarded that you obviously never realized it.

Matsui doesn't know because he's never tried to do it himself. If you've never built one or been part of the process then you don't know how painful it can be. They can't comprehend the emotional attachment. It's all just numbers on a screen. Heck, when you look at the process as a table on a web page it looks misleadingly easy. Then when you actually start to do it the reality of it hits you in the face. I don't know about other dev team members, but Matsui hasn't experienced that. It's no wonder he didn't fully understand what he was doing when he proposed or approved this.

[Demon6324236]

Matsui doesn't know because he's never tried to do it himself. If you've never built one or been part of the process then you don't know how painful it can be. They can't comprehend the emotional attachment. It's all just numbers on a screen. Heck, when you look at the process as a table on a web page it looks misleadingly easy. Then when you actually start to do it the reality of it hits you in the face. I don't know about other dev team members, but Matsui hasn't experienced that. It's no wonder he didn't fully understand what he was doing when he proposed or approved this.So very true. When originally looking at making a Mythic I thought it would take maybe a month at most, it was nothing, now... god... He came into the job saying he had not even beaten Maat yet, that set him up for so much... I am not sure how to put it, it was disappointing for me to see that the man in charge of the game is a man who has yet to pass level 70. The fact that he is messing with weapons far above a caliber than he has ever personally achieved is bad, and the fact he is doing it as much as he is, is terrible. I really wonder why this jump in DMG was ever allowed, or what sparked this idea in his mind. Nothing in the entire game will ever be the same if this goes through to the end because everything which was hard will become a ton easier, everything easy will become trash, everything worth getting will become a waste of time.

[Karbuncle]

Mandalic Stab is pretty nice SA'd, TA'd, or SATA'd. Other than that... Nope.

Mandalic Stab is still kinda terrible... Then again I have a 99 Mandau so Mercy spoiled me :\

But without a 99 Mythic dagger, I think you'd get better numbers from SA-Exent or TA-Exent... M.Stab is just really bad. Its essentially a 1-hit Shark bite with a ~1.60x Attack Mod, Which makes it great if the enemy has super DEF/EVA and you dont have Mercy (which is more often since 90% of content you'd be good on DEF/EVA was obsoleted Monday).

[Kojo]

Mandalic Stab is still kinda terrible... Then again I have a 99 Mandau so Mercy spoiled me :\

But without a 99 Mythic dagger, I think you'd get better numbers from SA-Exent or TA-Exent... M.Stab is just really bad. Its essentially a 1-hit Shark bite with a ~1.60x Attack Mod, Which makes it great if the enemy has super DEF/EVA and you dont have Mercy (which is more often since 90% of content you'd be good on DEF/EVA was obsoleted Monday).

I don't have Extent, THF isn't my main, might get it later on, now that they changed the WS mods about.

[Nebo]

Mandalic Stab is still kinda terrible... Then again I have a 99 Mandau so Mercy spoiled me :\

But without a 99 Mythic dagger, I think you'd get better numbers from SA-Exent or TA-Exent... M.Stab is just really bad. Its essentially a 1-hit Shark bite with a ~1.60x Attack Mod, Which makes it great if the enemy has super DEF/EVA and you dont have Mercy (which is more often since 90% of content you'd be good on DEF/EVA was obsoleted Monday).

On these new NMs, I have a hard time seeing THF being able to get enough Accuracy or Attack for Exenterator or Evisceration to outperform SA/TA Mandalic Stab with these new daggers.

But THF got royally boned in general this update. Our only real worthwhile endgame WS are were stacked RME WS. To use those, we'd have to use inferior weapons.

...and even using one of those super Delve daggers, THF (and one handers in general) just took an even bigger jump to the back of the DD line behind any 2 hander that doesn't have choose between dual wielding a drastically weaker weapon in their offhand or single wielding for better DPS.

Didn't they say they were trying to help out one handers? Because this update is one of the biggest setbacks we've had in a long time.

[Karbuncle]

Honestly, If not for a 99 Mandau, I'd be giving some thought to just using a Dagger/Shield until i can get two DMG~90+ Daggers >_>.

Still, IDK what I'm going to do with my Mandau when I get one of these DMG:90 daggers... Offhand it, /shield? I JUST DONT KNOW.

And yah, After experiencing Delve NMs, I'd have to say SA/TA MAND.STAB is probably tops. All REM WS work, but if you dont have a REM, Mand stab works... I SUPPOSE.

[Raksha]

Can anyone link me to the JP thread where people are flipping their lids over all of this?

Gonna go "thumbs up" posts over there since doing it in the EN forums isnt gonna do much.

[Camiie]

Didn't they say they were trying to help out one handers? Because this update is one of the biggest setbacks we've had in a long time.

Yeah, what's the deal with this? Did their changes to attack, defense, or whatever really do anything to improve 1-hander dmg? Maybe I don't completely understand what they were trying to do, but I'm certainly not seeing any great increases in dmg. Am I doing something horribly wrong? Did I miss something here?

[Rekin]

Yeah, what's the deal with this? Did their changes to attack, defense, or whatever really do anything to improve 1-hander dmg? Maybe I don't completely understand what they were trying to do, but I'm certainly not seeing any great increases in dmg. Am I doing something horribly wrong? Did I miss something here?

All they did is make it so that your ratio capped at 2.25 like 2handers. Nothing more, nothing less.

[Byrth]

And the "setback" he is referring to is the new weapon selection. Realistically, most dedicated players will only have access to the buyable Plasm weapons (like Aphotic Kukri) so 1H users have only one hand with new DPS. They're left either offhanding an old knife for the benefits of Dual Wield or single wielding, which represents a substantial DPS hit in either case. 2H users also only have access to buyable Plasm weapons, but they can use those weapons on 100% of their swings/WSs.

Thus, if the new Plasm weapons represent a 30% DPS increase, 1H users see something more like a 15% DPS increase while 2H users get the full 30%. This widens the gap between the two types of weapons even further.

[OmnysValefor]

Just ask any thief fulltiming TH knife...

[Manux]

Do something about Excalibur sword as well...make the Knight of the round do more damage and make it PLD ONLY WEP.

[Zumi]

Made a couple of pick up groups for delve fracture. Didn't gear check people or anything took whoever sent me a tell. Were able to kill NMs they took a long time but they still went down basically you can only target 1 nm per 45 min run in a pick up. Got several of the key items. Most likly people will be able to get those new 30k plasma weapons fairly easily if I can just throw together a random group of people and kill stuff.

Probably be awhile down the road before average random player can kill the final bosses though.

[Kojo]

Do something about Excalibur sword as well...make the Knight of the round do more damage and make it PLD ONLY WEP.

R u havin' a giggle, m8?

[SweetPeaPachui]

From reading the posts over the past 2 days. My point I have to make about the latest patch/upgrade to the game is this. I have been playing FFXI since the North American release on PC. Yes I have been on the game a lot of years. I have almost all jobs in game at lv99. I also have 2 accounts I play. I only have 2 EMP weapons ( Verethragna lv95 going to 99 and Almace lv85 going to 99 ).

I would not like to see all my effort gone to waste to make these to weapons as my hard hitting weapons go to dust in one update. I play mostly every day at least 3 hours after work or on weekends. I would hate to quit the game because I enjoy it a lot. To add I have not purchased the new expansion yet because of all the anger over the upgrades. I'm still enjoying the old content and have finally gotten my characters to the point where I feel they are strong with good gear.

1. The armor upgrades are fine so far. The new armor in the game is not a problem to me because the stats don't over shine most of the top gear you can get by much or any at all depending on what you have. I'm from the school of its the combinations of gear you put on that give you the most effectiveness for the situation your in.

2. The new weapons make an issue because of this. The new lv99 weapons over power the old RME weapons at lv99. I see some people trying to compare the new lv99 weapons with a weapon sub 99 level (lv75 - 95 RME). I would compare a lv99 weapon to a lv99 weapon. In the terms of RME weapons. These weapons should be made equal to or better then the base level weapons you get from Delve. Also the RME weapons at 99 should have additional quests made to update them further at least to a certain point. SE could make the RME weapons stop after a point of upgrade to be less then the Delve weapons if they want to gradually phase out the older RME weapons in later newer content of the franchise. Now with that said... once your RME weapon reaches its max and the newer Delve relics start to out pace the old RME weapons in power. SE could give the players a choice with a quest that would let them merge the older RME weapon with a Delve Relic up to a certain upgrade level to enhance the Delve Relic or just stop progress on the older RME weapon.

I can kind of see that SE wants to take the game to the next level by making new content and a more powerful relic weapon set. But the slap to the face is that they have not planned out how to keep the RME weapons relevant to the new content to let them phase out slowly. A good solid plan to phase out or continue the RME weapons would solve a lot of the grief and debate about the new update and help players get back to playing.

I hope this issue gets fixed fast because I still like to play FFXI. Best wishes to all players and keep having fun and adventure.

[Toast3000]

I've posted this idea in items discussion. I wanted to add some constructive ideas instead of complaints. I honestly think this could be a solution so I'm hoping people read it:

1) All R/M/E can be etched with 1 evolith spot

2) All new weapons obtained in SoA can be 'melted' down to a Rare/Ex evolith that will modify the inscribed weapon to the DMG: and Delay: values of the melted weapon. Stats, weapon skills, hidden effects, etc of the base R/M/E are maintained.

3) Since E 95 and 99 weapons are a lot of effort for only +3/2 more of the stat modifier either:
a) Add a +5/10% associated weapon skill modifier similar to R/M weapons at 95/99
or
b) Increase the aftermath by time or proc % for 95/99 weapons

It seems simple enough for me. Players have to continually play new content and obtain the new weapons to keep their R/M/E up to par. R/M/E do not go to waste, it may not be the best weapon, even upgraded this way, but it's never useless.

Twastar 85 is a great example: Izhiikoh -> Evolith (DMG:108 Delay:200) -> Twastar(85) yields
Twastar: DMG:108 Delay:200 Dex+10, "Rudras Storm" and aftermath
~vs~
Izhiikoh: DMG:108 Delay:200 DEX+15 Accuracy+29 Attack+25 "Triple Attack"+2%

It becomes clearly a choice for the player on how to use their weapon and for what. Evoliths uses an already programmed game mechanic, no new system required for producers. Gives credence to old content and effort while not forcing these weapons to be the end all. Casual players can now play alongside R/M/E holders and have fun with great new weapons. R/M/E become a stat variation is all. Please tell me if you think this idea is decent.

[Olor]

As someone who doesn't like collecting toenails/farming gil - is it wrong for me to be happy about this direction? I mean, people who have an aversion to doing really boring things have been boned by XI in terms of getting decent weapons for a long time. I don't mind something like voidwatch where I go in with a pick up and spam some hard mobs (even against a low drop rate)

All the super hardcore people will have these things before everyone else, so why you complaining? Should everyone be forced to collect 1000 dynamis lord toenails just cause you did it? Is it wrong to change it up a bit so those of us who would rather have fun vs. farming gil all day get a chance to play DD?

[Karbuncle]

I don't think we care about relics being slightly outclassed or on/par with these new weapons, but outclassing them by 30% is what most people are complaining about.

Roundabout, but the "WHY" Street is a two way road. Everyone keeps asking Relic owners "WHy should you..." This, and "Why do you..." That, but, I mean, with all the "RME ARE SO EASY" Flying around, why do you guys insist they're so hard, yet at the same time insist they're so easy so they should be replaced.

These are really just devils advocate questions, but I mean enough is enough, some of you keep ragging and laughing at Relic owners, and you keep dodging any questions as to why you think this is good instead of just dancing in a circle about how laziness finally paid off.

Why do you feel these laughably easy to obtain weapons should be 30% Stronger than a 99 Relic? Why do you feel relics should be outclassed when most if not all owners put in substantial time and effort? Why do you think Less Effort > More Effort in terms of rewards? Why should players who dont want to do the work get the best? Why can't you be happy with what you put forth the effort to obtain?


Edit: Bad placing BST Person, This isn't specifically to you, just got done readin a few pages, notice it seems like I'm pointing this at you.

[OmnysValefor]

As someone who doesn't like collecting toenails/farming gil - is it wrong for me to be happy about this direction? I mean, people who have an aversion to doing really boring things have been boned by XI in terms of getting decent weapons for a long time. I don't mind something like voidwatch where I go in with a pick up and spam some hard mobs (even against a low drop rate)

I'm not criticizing you at all, but there were plenty of decent weapons. Yeah, you'll never peak as high as an RME 99, but a few of the DA or OA2-4 weapons are good. 85 empies are even decent weapons and easy to obtain.

The dive into building a relic or empy, let alone a mythic, is a big one. It's one you decided not to take, but it's one other players took, and those that went for 99/99AG did it because they wanted to be the best.

You said it yourself--FFXI has been lacking decent weapons for people like you--except that it hasn't. Decency is all you're willing to invest time in. Decency is what you get.


All the super hardcore people will have these things before everyone else, so why you complaining? Should everyone be forced to collect 1000 dynamis lord toenails just cause you did it? Is it wrong to change it up a bit so those of us who would rather have fun vs. farming gil all day get a chance to play DD?

There are other games that follow the model you want better. The heart attack most players are experience is that FFXI was never intended to be one of those games.

[Demon6324236]

Do something about Excalibur sword as well...make the Knight of the round do more damage and make it PLD ONLY WEP.No... really... no...

[Krashport]

Why do you feel these laughably easy to obtain weapons should be 30% Stronger than a 99 Relic? Why do you feel relics should be outclassed when most if not all owners put in substantial time and effort? Why do you think Less Effort > More Effort in terms of rewards? Why should players who dont want to do the work get the best? Why can't you be happy with what you put forth the effort to obtain? .Because we all are Members of the same Online game, paying a monthly subscription. Why should those Members that play longer and invest more time out of their lives... get the better rewards is what we should be asking, last I checked we are all using Green Money. No matter which way we look at things, most if not all is a time-sink.

FINAL FANTASY XI is not the same game that it used to be anymore. Like it or not, but that is our answer! Hehe~

[Schrute]

Because we all are Members of the same Online game, paying a monthly subscription. Why should those Members that play longer and invest more time out of their lives... get the better rewards is what we should be asking, last I checked we are all using Green Money. No matter which way we look at things, most if not all is a time-sink.

FINAL FANTASY XI is not the same game that it used to be anymore. Like it or not, but that is our answer! Hehe~




Why should people who work harder and longer than me make more money than me. Why should someone with a degree get paid more money. We work at the same company and though they put in more time and effort into the company why should they make more than me... Guess I shouldn't go to college or try at my job because no matter what, I am going to make the same amount of money as the person who went to college and puts in more time. Clearly you know the difference between right and wrong and how the world works.

[Krashport]

Why should people who work harder and longer than me make more money than me. Why should someone with a degree get paid more money. We work at the same company and though they put in more time and effort into the company why should they make more than me... Guess I shouldn't go to college or try at my job because no matter what, I am going to make the same amount of money as the person who went to college and puts in more time. Clearly you know the difference between right and wrong and how the world works.


This is a Video Game that you play, this is not a Company you're working for! ^.^

[Vitus]

This is a Video Game that you play, this is not a Company you're working for! ^.^

There! Should help dispel those delusional achievements ppl have.

[Schrute]

This is a Video Game that you play, this is not a Company you're working for! ^.^

Oh good, I'm so glad you figured that out on your own, that is a video game. Your next big brain teaser is to understand what I was saying. I'll give you a hint, it starts with META and ends with PHOR. After that we can talk about Sarcasm, but let's take baby steps ^.^ ^.^

[Krashport]

Oh good, I'm so glad you figured that out on your own, that is a video game. Your next big brain teaser is to understand what I was saying. I'll give you a hint, it starts with META and ends with FORE. After that we can talk about Sarcasm, but let's take baby steps ^.^ ^.^

Sounds like someone got called out, more of a rant then Sarcasm.^.^ ^.^ ^.^

[Raksha]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=woosh


http://grammarist.com/usage/than-then/

[Demon6324236]

Game or not, I am sure I am not the only person who has played an adventure game and had their file corrupted or deleted somehow only to start all over after that hard work and time spent on it. That is somewhat how this feels to people, they spent tons of time working hard and long on this game making something that was powerful, to have that drop so harshly in value, it hurts. Its not like having your file deleted exactly, but its like having a backup file before you did a ton of level grinding and farming to make your next boss fight possible, and then your actual file got corrupted, so you had to start over at your backup, where all of that hard work is now meaningless and went to waste.

[Slaxx]

Why should those Members that play longer and invest more time out of their lives... get the better rewards is what we should be asking



Am I getting wooshed here? Do you read what you type before you click post? Or is this waht passes for thought in your head?

[Vitus]

They ran out of tricks now they resort to straw-man and red herring fallacies.

[Krashport]

Am I getting wooshed here? Do you read what you type before you click post? Or is this waht passes for thought in your head?

I think you just wooshed me bud, cause you're not making any sense that I can see with this quote...

[Maharo]

Here is the issue that led us to here.
A portion of the community is locked out of events because they don't have REM's. And honestly I have been annoyed many a time with shouts in Jeuno saying Relic or empy DD only. In my opinion that is just plain dumb. I am not going to build an Relic or Empy just so I can actually play the game. I am glad SE gave those people who became so obsessed with relic/ Empy a swift kick in the a@@. Does it suck for those people who spent all the time on their relic / empy yes it does. Should SE make the REM's a bit less underpowered now, sure. Should they go back to being the top weapons of the game, no.
Look main issue is Relics were made to be the end all be all weapons, then they added mythics. At 75 relics were rare and status symbols of achievement. Now at 99 they are relatively common not special weapons you now must have. I hate to break it to you all but the work and effort has already been belittled by the player base. Empy stand with Relics in term of status and if you play with a group that is working towards it you can get one fairly easy.
Also remember this game was never designed to pass 75 cap. 76-99 has caused a whole bunch of issues in the game mechanics. SE was nice and let you upgrade relics. Then the community turned around and punished people who either didn't want to or did not have the group to farm dynamis or honestly like in my case did not want to compete with the 40 bst in zone. Can I make a relic to join those groups sure spend the 6-12 months farming dynamis while dealing with bsts. Do I want to spend my free time being miserable and pay a company for it ....no. Should I be forced to so I can do events to get gear I want ... hell no. But that is what happened. I have been kicked from VW parties because I did not have super gear or 9/10 times a relic. VW the place where proccing and abyssite determine 90% of a fight. You think that is right and ok? I don't. Now we have crafted options that can at the moment overshadow relic empy and mythic in damage. So casual players can actually play this game and go to bigger events. I am sorry the time you spent of your choice feels wasted. But I feel worse for those people who have to log off in frustration since no group will take them due to not having a overvalued still only slightly better then easier gotten, weapon.
I know the REM holders will complain till SE makes them the top dogs again so the feel justified but hey sometimes things don't work out in the end no matter how much effort you put into it. Even if SE makes them on par with the new weapons they will still complain because they are not the "Best". I hope if SE makes R E M back into super weapons they make it so only a handful can actually do it. So we don't find ourselves in the same position as "R E M or go home".
Didn't a lot of people complain about the grind of events? Now we have events that is less grind and for some reason people are complaining again.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Here is the issue that led us to here....[etc]

I am sorry to hear that you were treated so roughly in such events, but that may be server specific as i myself have never been kicked from voidwatch for lacking a weapon in the RME ranks. In fact my only emps are 80 gandiva, 85 almace, and 85 kannagi, not one of which ive used in a voidwatch, an even that i did atleast 800+ pops on akvan and still failed to get a heka body. However there were more reasonable options presented, the WOE weapons, which i have 3 of, 2 99, and one 90, and ill be the first to say, and yes i may get flack for it, i created my maschu/hiradenotachi +2s and now their final forms in around 2 weeks work each, And there are times i outclass or give the 95/90 R/E users a run for their money because of the delay allowing higher volume of ws use. I also lack shoha so that says something.

I fully support there being more reasonable alternitives to the RME weapons, but i also have a few elemental path weapons, some WSDMG+10% and an OAT greatsword, and tpbonus+100 polearm. Now, i dont fear as muuch for my incomplete gandiva/almace/kannagi or my shamash or even gkt. What i do fear for is all those other very reasonable weapons are also wasted, me doing work to get to a point where i could keep up or compare with these RME users without hindering groups i join. I took great pride in getting my jobs to the place they were.

But now with what everyone thinks is weapons falling into their lap, all my hard work, and these magian trials that took a lot of time and effort, have become a memory, and not one i can relive because nobody will let me use my earned gear, because it isnt the newest, shiniest stuff. Atop that, the new content will ensure nobody wants to help me do the old content, because it is now less rewarding.

To top that off, with this steep incline, the only question is, where will the line be drawn? If we hush up, and next week theres weapons climbing to 350dmg, and the following week the weapons soaring to 500dmg, and beyond. And what if delve becomes RME only? Suddenly we are back at square one, and the constant gear tredmill we have been trotting on at speed 2 was just cranked up to 14, and before we can realize, too many players have fallen upon their chin, and slammed into the back wall.

I barely stated Salvage II, and then Reives came out, But thats okay, because the weapons from wildkeeper werent so outrageous as to render relics/mythics/empyreans obsolite totally, so i jumped into starting reives, and after getting my 3rd piece of gear, boom, update, all prior content diminished.

So while i do feel for you, i cant help but think either your, or my experiences are atypical of the common situation. But there already were weapons that could keep up with the old RME weaponry, and with coins becoming tradeable and bazaarable (i personally helped/gave 4 people the coins needed to make their own weapons) i dont see a need to flatten the playingfield and expect people to swallow that without a fight.

Id rather not see the damage on weapons keep skyrocketing out of control.

Edit: and not that it matters, but if anyone asks, i am fully willing to list the weapons i used for each of the 18 jobs i had leveled.

[OmnysValefor]

Oh come on.

People need to quit pretending there weren't other options besides REM. Again I know a few people with relics that went ahead and made magian OA2-4 weapons. Also, there were plenty of jobs noone cared what your weapon was. Every mage.

My blm is crap. Its skills are nearly capped (lol) and that's about all I can say for it. Never once did a group turn away my blm in his chatoyant staff.

REM only, for a lot of people, is just a way of saying they're not taking your pink dancer no matter how pretty you think she is when she does Haste Samba's dance. You could build quite the weapon with several (not several dozen, not several hundred, just several) hours time and a few million gil. You could also come whm,blm,sch,smn,brd,cor,blu and while yes, and geegollyhorn was desired, people will take a decent bard over nothing at all.

I know for a fact you can take blu because that's how I got into voidwatch. Turns out, if you say Blue Mage, 99% of the time, they won't turn you down. They didn't care that, at the time, I was dual-wielding isador and mageblade (spell-int-10% sword), and didn't care that his gear was comprised of ninja scraps that said blu on them.

Yes, some people are idiots, like the guy who turned down a mythic 99 drg because "we already have a drg"-it's a screenshot on ffxiah, but once you get past those, you meet pug leaders that actually aren't bad people, they just also don't want the blame for leading a bad run.

If there is any type of great cost associated with being the best at a job in this game, the people who wouldn't pursue relics and mythics and empies still aren't going to be the best. Dethroning REM isn't going to change that.

[Lotto]

Because we all are Members of the same Online game, paying a monthly subscription. Why should those Members that play longer and invest more time out of their lives... get the better rewards is what we should be asking, last I checked we are all using Green Money. No matter which way we look at things, most if not all is a time-sink.

FINAL FANTASY XI is not the same game that it used to be anymore. Like it or not, but that is our answer! Hehe~




You don't understand why someone who puts more effort than you in something should get better rewards? This is almost as stupid as SE releasing all these new weapons.
Why someone who spent hours and money to lvl a craft to 100+ should get more money than someone with no craft at all? Answer is clear : because he did work harder to get it.

[ThaiChi]

I don't know if this has even been discussed yet, because i'm not going to sift through the rest oft his ever growing thread, but the implementation of these new weapons has invalidated any magian weapon trial. Obviously we're thinking about the empyrean aspect but when trial of the magians was introduced it basically made it so you would never have to buy a weapon off the AH again to be up to par, which was nice from someone who struggled to buy a Hagun back at 75 cap. But these new weapons make it so ToM serves no purpose other than to upgrade RME to 99/Afterglow, Relic Armor and Job emotes.

I honestly liked trial of the magians a lot. I hope that whatever they have planned encompasses every weapon that goes through a magian trial at the very least.

[Afania]

Here is the issue that led us to here.
A portion of the community is locked out of events because they don't have REM's. And honestly I have been annoyed many a time with shouts in Jeuno saying Relic or empy DD only. In my opinion that is just plain dumb. I am not going to build an Relic or Empy just so I can actually play the game. I am glad SE gave those people who became so obsessed with relic/ Empy a swift kick in the a@@.

Maybe if you spend 1hr reading forums and do some research, you'd find out there are several other options available if you don't have R/E/M.

1. Play jobs that doesn't need R/E/M, or have decent alternatives. Only 3 DD jobs need a R/E/M to perform well, so you have other jobs to choose from.

2. If you think you have good performance, but still not accepted to the pt, make your own pt. I'm not sure why everyone and their mother complained about no invite without R/E/M, and still refuse to make their own.


VW the place where proccing and abyssite determine 90% of a fight. You think that is right and ok? I don't. Now we have crafted options that can at the moment overshadow relic empy and mythic in damage. So casual players can actually play this game and go to bigger events.

3. Actually, R/E/M being required in VW, it's not player's fault. Because VW isn't proccing/abyssite determine 90% of fight, it's dmg output determine 70% of fight. SE made the gap between R/E/M and regular job too big to begin with, and VW has high wipe rate T6+ if output is too low. Fights like T6+ or prov, you will see fail rate increase if fight dragged to over 3 min, and certain weaker PUG it last for 5+ min or even 10.

Thus it's completely reasonable for the pt to aim for higher output, to be able to win in 1~3 min. You can have nearly 100% win rate if the mob dies in 2 min, but if it goes higher it's easier to wipe.

If Ukon lv 85 still superior than other AH GA options at lv99, then safe to say the gap between R/E/M and AH weapon is too big, and once you let lv 85 empy obtainable by majority of dedicated players, the game balance went out of control.

4. If you think new AH weapons would "save" casual weapons, gl with that. By the end of next month it'd be delve weapon only instead of R/E/M only. And if you think you can just go to AH and buy a weapon and be happy, then you're not a casual player probably.......certain ingot required to craft new weapons already went over 10M each, and that's not counting NM drop needed. GL for casuals to be able to afford those new craftable weapons now that 1 reliable gil making method is gone.

[Richwood]

This is a quote from fillerbunny9 on ffxiah.com but not sure I could say it better.
with the relative ease that (Delve)drops occur, what is going to KEEP people playing? this isn't WoW where you have a massive, casual playerbase to live off of month to month while the harder core players complete the expansion like it's a race. if people are getting their "insert crazy aztec named weapon here" what's going to maintain their sub from month to month? we're done with levelling, even soloing RUN I took it to 74 and a half before ducking into Abyssea within a week. I see the new weapons already on their 2nd Augment in East/West Adoulin frequently enough that I wonder if once the people racing through this content are finished, if they don't just let their subs. lapse because oh hey, 99% of the content in the game has been rendered obsolete.

what are all the pet job players to do now that the weaponry FAR exceeds any balance with pets? Wyverns are now even more laughable than before, Avatars, Automatons, and BST Jugs are all a joke now. (well, Automatons are still useful as a WHM, but who's going to take PUP to the new content?) Black Mages spells are not hitting any harder from what I have seen, Scholars are just casting Cure spells with their White Mage brethren, and Red Mage.... what the ***'s a Red Mage? meanwhile SE alienates their base of melee by saying "any weapon you put a lot of work into is now a steaming turd compared to this stuff you can get pretty damn fast, now chase them down!" and they're supposed to smile while they're fed that ***sandwich.

it's no wonder Matsui feels like he is getting an ulcer, because the updates have shown just how little of a plan they actually have beyond inflating numbers while letting the rest of the game go to pot. the entire XI Dev Team has been caught with their pants down, and the best they can do is "get back to us" about solutions to breaking the game.

[Karbuncle]

Because we all are Members of the same Online game, paying a monthly subscription. Why should those Members that play longer and invest more time out of their lives... get the better rewards is what we should be asking, last I checked we are all using Green Money. No matter which way we look at things, most if not all is a time-sink.

FINAL FANTASY XI is not the same game that it used to be anymore. Like it or not, but that is our answer! Hehe~



I do want to thank you for being the only person for this Hyperdrivegeargrind XI update to take the time to answer my question. But as said, I would like to respond. (Edited in: Please understand, after about the first paragraph I am no longer addressing you directly, once you get to the point where my posts becomes gradually less "nice", you'll know I'm not addressing you anymore, and generally just the entire populace fapping to our 'tears')

The guy who used the company metaphor is spot on. By which reasoning do you think doing less effort means should be getting the same rewards as someone putting in double/triple/quadruple your work? If i worked for 20 hours a week, should i be outraged that i don't get paid the same amount as people who play 40 hours a week? I'm sorry but this is exactly what you're doing, rather it be a game or a job, Effort = Reward, in MMOs, and even in every offline game ever. Things aren't just handed to you because you feel entitled to them.

And one point in particular, you make it seem as If these people with RMEC had some unfair advantage in obtaining them. They don't. YOU, ALL OF YOU who sit there and Float on about how easy to obtain RMEC are, don't even own one, but the kicker is, you could get a Relic with less than 2hours a day, 2 hours even if you want to take full advantage of the zone time... You could make an Empyrean, over a longer period of time, with less than 2hours a day, Mythic is another story but it always has been, and while it would take a long time, you could also do it with less than 2 hours of effort a day.

All of these weapons you already have the EQUAL AND OPPORTUNE RIGHTS TO OBTAIN, its just a matter of how or how not lazy you are, Because every single event to obtain a RMEC can be done, casually, in 1 hour. That and some of you need to realize the difficulty and power of the NM's and delve itself means that the general type of people cheering these new weapons are likely never to see one within the first 2-3 months because no ones going to want a non RME DD or because no ones going to want to let you essentially Leech. Plus, the AH weapons you cheer about are likely going to cost you half/fourth the price of a relic for the first few months they're in the game.

So in all honesty, There's still a huge amount of effort you'll need to put into obtaining these. Unless you get lucky and someone lets you leech their run, you're just going to be sitting in town, like you did for 11 years when you could have been out doing dynamis for a relic, so the difference is moot, and to be frank, all of you are really just happy us evil elitists can't have our special satan weapons to hold over you sweet innocent saints.

Honestly, and I'm covering my bases with this, if you didn't get a RMEC because it wasn't "fun", then why do you care that other people did so much that it makes you get a Gameboner because these weapons are being outdated? You do and always have had the same chances and oppurtunities as current RMEC holders are, the only difference was motivation and drive. When i got my mandau, i was playing very casually, i worked for a Webhosting company full time, and I solo'd most of the dynamis runs during Stage III/IV, it took me months and months and months, But all i needed to do was dedicated 2hours a day, hell I didn't even go every day. I'm living proof incarnate that the argument or RL, Time constraints, "Special blah blah" is just a logical falacy and a scapegoat used to give your arguments more "umph" because when you ask yourself, "Why am i happy?" all you can think of is you have an unnatural hatred of RMEC owners because they work harder than you, and had better gear to show for it, and you can't stand that.

(Though, I will hit one for your side too, some of the RMEC i see are actually raging for the opposite reason, they feel special and now they're angry they can't be "Better" Than everyone, but this is like 5% of the RMEC population, almost every RME I've met got their 95-99 Version only because they loved the job and wanted to be better at it, not show it off and laugh at you folk).

[Elexia]

Why should people who work harder .

Sitting on your ass collecting hundreds to thousands of low drop rate items isn't hard work. It's a test of patience and how much you're willing to waste your time for something.

The ironic thing is, the people crying now were bitching at people who suggested making getting the items easier or adding them to other content when that would have been a 100x better solution than these new weapons, but hey, people hate seeing their "status" taken from them.

Also it's been about a week now, does your entire server have all of these weapons yet? Are the AH flooded with the "better buyable weapons" yet? Have people stopped working on VW/Dynamis/Mythic upgrading? Are people not buying out Alexandrites/Dross/Cinder/Plates/Merrow/etc?

I'm curious to know, because on my 2 servers (Asura and Odin) people are still going business as usual.

[Karbuncle]

Actually, I've noticed a dead drop/stall on most Currency sales. People might still make Ukkonvasara or Vereth simply cause of the WS, but honestly even MNKs are like "Fk it, Shijin Spiral time with the new h2h".

As for the server, One guy i did ones with has about 90k Points, he could own 3 of the weapons at any time, and already owns 2-3 pieces of armor, these things, despite how some people might be, are stupid easy to obtain, its irrelevant if someone has "all" of them, you can't get "all RME" in a week, let alone 1, but the fact is these are popping up everywhere.

IDK why I'm even arguing this? IDC how easy they are to obtain or how much they beat RME, personally I'm just upset at SE's lack of foresight in this and the fact my FFXI is driving down GenericGearGrinder Boulevard, which frightens me cause every MMO I played that did this has grow stale for me (and the other thousands of people who left it for dead) within weeks...

[OmnysValefor]

So few people seem to be enjoying the game anymore.

What is the opposite of expansion, because that's what Adoulin is.

[Camiie]

So few people seem to be enjoying the game anymore.

What is the opposite of expansion, because that's what Adoulin is.

The word you're looking for is Contraction.

[fernando]

I for one still <3 the game,with new areas and content,i am a happy camper except for some issues with "Critical chop" i,m good..As pld i got screwed when we were still at 75 cap,now i,m happy again to be paladin with some relevance!!

[fernando]

I also do not think SE Would make the work ppl have put into the R/M/E weapons,only because it would make those that put in that time have rage issues..........Just saying.

[Krashport]

I do want to thank you for being the only person for this Hyperdrivegeargrind XI update to take the time to answer my question. But as said, I would like to respond. (Edited in: Please understand, after about the first paragraph I am no longer addressing you directly, once you get to the point where my posts becomes gradually less "nice", you'll know I'm not addressing you anymore, and generally just the entire populace fapping to our 'tears')

The guy who used the company metaphor is spot on. By which reasoning do you think doing less effort means should be getting the same rewards as someone putting in double/triple/quadruple your work? If i worked for 20 hours a week, should i be outraged that i don't get paid the same amount as people who play 40 hours a week? I'm sorry but this is exactly what you're doing, rather it be a game or a job, Effort = Reward, in MMOs, and even in every offline game ever. Things aren't just handed to you because you feel entitled to them. There is so many metaphors, so much feeling, so much love that some are pouring into a video game. I mean with all that time and energy poured into a video game and not having or learning the ability to realize things will replace other things. I wouldn't call that time and energy well spent.




I'm not on any side to be honest. I just play and enjoy the game when I can with family and friends.





had their file corruptedMaybe that save file got corrupted because it wasn't replaced with a new and updated one. Maybe the Employee who is getting paid more, is sleeping with the manager. Maybe the person that is passing the grade, is working on some extra credits... ;) Come on say it with me, I play the game, the game does not play me!:rolleyes:

[Zumi]

Also it's been about a week now, does your entire server have all of these weapons yet? Are the AH flooded with the "better buyable weapons" yet? Have people stopped working on VW/Dynamis/Mythic upgrading? Are people not buying out Alexandrites/Dross/Cinder/Plates/Merrow/etc?


A lot of people have stopped upgrading old weapons, currency, plates, alex, ect have pretty much slowed and you don't see many voidwatch shouts now.

[OmnysValefor]

And the "setback" he is referring to is the new weapon selection. Realistically, most dedicated players will only have access to the buyable Plasm weapons (like Aphotic Kukri) so 1H users have only one hand with new DPS. They're left either offhanding an old knife for the benefits of Dual Wield or single wielding, which represents a substantial DPS hit in either case. 2H users also only have access to buyable Plasm weapons, but they can use those weapons on 100% of their swings/WSs.

Thus, if the new Plasm weapons represent a 30% DPS increase, 1H users see something more like a 15% DPS increase while 2H users get the full 30%. This widens the gap between the two types of weapons even further.

Further, a point very much worth consideration, is the accuracy difference, setting aside 2h dex calculations.

[Karbuncle]

There is so many metaphors, so much feeling, so much love that some are pouring into a video game. I mean with all that time and energy poured into a video game and not having or learning the ability to realize things will replace other things. I wouldn't call that time and energy well spent.

Time and Energy Well spent are relative/subjective so i can understand why you may see it differently, but at the end of the day, I'd say so long as you enjoy what you're do, the time you spend is well spent.

Rather its drinking your tears away at a bar, partying with friends, playing FOOZBALL, calling people idiots on a forum, or FFXI, Each task is equally irrelevant in the grand scheme of ones finite lifespan, so you can't really waste time, since you're given the option to spend it as you see fit :D.

Thats just a minor issue though. Horrific philosophicak crap out of the way, you mention it, and i wanted to make it a little clear, everyone who plays FFXI probably plays to have fun, its just fun is subjective, what you find fun they might not find fun, and vice versa. The view that this is good or this is bad are both equally wrong because there is no black and white when it comes to it. Saddly, as much as i hate the gear grind, It doesn't make it a bad choice, as much as those who think outdating relics think its "good" are equally wrong.

[Theytak]

You guys... Seriously... I've missed your psychotic ravings. <3

[Elexia]

A lot of people have stopped upgrading old weapons, currency, plates, alex, ect have pretty much slowed and you don't see many voidwatch shouts now.

Let's be real, you barely seen shit getting done on Phoenix prior to this outside of certain linkshells lol. The only time it was active was when Titan merged because it was the Titans who actually shouted for stuff.

[Jackstin]

If you have your ultimate relic/empy/mythic, and you don't want to play the new content to get a better weapon, then leave.

This isn't supposed to be a snarky comment. You've reached your ultimate goal, and you don't consider the new content to be an advancement. You're done!

I left today, and I don't feel resentful. This game has given me years of fun, and now I'm ready to move on to something else. Sounds like that's true for a number of you.

[MarkovChain]

Because we all are Members of the same Online game, paying a monthly subscription. Why should those Members that play longer and invest more time out of their lives... get the better rewards is what we should be asking, last I checked we are all using Green Money. No matter which way we look at things, most if not all is a time-sink.

FINAL FANTASY XI is not the same game that it used to be anymore. Like it or not, but that is our answer! Hehe~




With every VU you see gimps claiming this, with every expansion you see gimps cry after a while. This happened for abyssea, remember ? Even BG gimps couldn't 90 their empy and still can't 99 their RME these days let alone afterglow them. For game balance (aka keeping people playing) you need to add difficulty at one point (which effectively means impossibility in your case). You are seeing the point weapons as the omfgdrop from the expansion when the real drop is the one from the endbosses. Guess who will get the "drops" in the end ?

I'm just hoping for new relics weapons which those weapons are not ( unless they are a 1% droprate which sounds retarded seeing what they've done so far).

I still don't understand what they had in mind with skirmish. The idea sounded cool but now it's shit. Here is some advice SE : allow to enter skirmish with imprimaturs. As you may have noticed nobody is doing imprimatures anymore because you completely destroyed the point of doing them (the main point was getting the CS for wildkeeper reives (for wpns) which you only need if you care about entering a fracture as leader). Oh but wait the weapons are now garbage. SE just trashed content released 3 weeks ago. I wonder what we will get in 3 weeks...

[svengalis]

i know it can take more time to get a E/M/R but if you do do them did you not get what you wanted from doing the quest/missions etc? i would say 90% of the gear in this game has become obsolete over the years with each new expansion so i expected nothing less when they announced a new one.

i can kinda understand why people are mad about this but at the same time what did you expect from a new expansion if not better gear and weapons that were easier to obtain? i would have thought most would have liked this after the ridiculous requirements to max out E/M/R.

[Jackstin]

i know it can take more time to get a E/M/R but if you do do them did you not get what you wanted from doing the quest/missions etc? i would say 90% of the gear in this game has become obsolete over the years with each new expansion so i expected nothing less when they announced a new one.

i can kinda understand why people are mad about this but at the same time what did you expect from a new expansion if not better gear and weapons that were easier to obtain? i would have thought most would have liked this after the ridiculous requirements to max out E/M/R.

R/E/Ms weren't just a piece of gear with ridiculous requirements. They're the ultimate weapons with perfectly reasonable requirements, but expected to be achieved over a long period of time.

The requirements for Relics and Empyreans (okay mythics are outrageous) look daunting, but they can be got in a matter of a few months. Sure that's a long time, but when you're at the end of the game and you've finished everything, that's the end goal.

So they have every right to be pissed off, assuming this will never get fixed. Except of course it will get fixed, so I don't know what the issue is.

[zataz]

It's still just a video game. Name another MMORPG that keeps ONE SET OF WEAPON OR ARMOR as the top and must need to do any content. I'm very curious because most MMOs, especially in 2013, has an actual gear progression.

You say it's not a smart decision, it's understandable being butthurt and crying if you completed a relic and mythic in 2007 for example, but for fucks sake, it takes only a month-2 months tops to complete a relic these days and mere days to complete an empyrean if you're dedicated.

It only takes awhile to complete a Mythic because of, as I stated, artificial difficulty. These new weapons actually has an entry barrier that'll make them actually something to work for (sounds familiar?)

The sad part about all of this bitching, the ones bitching are out there working towards getting these weapons. :\ The other funny thing about this, it was likely the same people who bitched when Abyssea released..oh, you don't remember the years and years we spent grinding content like Sky, Sea, Ground Kings and Einherjar only for Abyssea and VW to come out and negate all that work and everyone moved on their with lives just fine?

You say you can't use other MMORPGs as an example, but why is it that everyone is content in said other MMOs with gear progression..? Probably because almost every other MMO is designed this way and not keep things relevant for years on end rather than making something better to work for. Serious question Afania, did you join post Abyssea? Or did you quit after Abyssea released? I'm going to guess you joined post Abyssea.

<,< pso i dont think omega gene flow was ever replaced or black ring or even crazy tunes

[Fynlar]

So they have every right to be pissed off, assuming this will never get fixed. Except of course it will get fixed, so I don't know what the issue is.

Don't count your chocobos before they hatch, pal.

[Raksha]

REM + ghastly stone+2 = ~+50 base damage.

that + Airlixir+2 = ~+50 more base damage.

BAM! fixes everything. keeps dynamis/salvage/voidwatch relevant. makes Skirmish relevant again, and also gives REM holders another reason to do Delve.

So obvious I dont know how they didnt see it to begin with.

[Karbuncle]

To make skirmish relevant again all they'd really have to do is significantly reduce the entry requirements. If they did that, the average player could probably burn through Skirmish so long as they're smart and own at least Emp+2/Reive gear and use macros.

I'd bother doing Skirmish for a few of the weapons as hold-overs if it wasn't so stupid easy to do Delve and so stupid hard to enter Skirmish.

[Alerith]

Don't count your chocobos before they hatch, pal.

This.

They said they MIGHT do something IF they have manpower.

[Jackstin]

Don't count your chocobos before they hatch, pal.

I get what you mean. They've said they'll fix R/E/M they could do something rubbish like make the WSs better...

But....I mean. Is it worth getting this angry over something which we know is going to be addressed?

[Alerith]

I get what you mean. They've said they'll fix R/E/M they could do something rubbish like make the WSs better...

But....I mean. Is it worth getting this angry over something which we know is going to be addressed?

Again...they said they might fix them. It's a coin toss right now.

[Zagen]

Again...they said they might fix them. It's a coin toss right now.

Where was the impression this was only a "might be fixed" given because everything I've read since SoA came out was that they would remain relevant and the only indecision on the development's team was how.

[Raksha]

Hello,

Matsui here.

We've been receiving some questions in regards to what we will be doing with relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons moving forward, so I would like to address what I can at the moment.

We are not planning to enhance relic, mythic, or empyrean weapons via Trial of the Magians or through other methods.

However, in regards to these weapons that you have enhanced up to level 99, we are formulating plans so that they do not go to waste. (Including the weapons that do not yet have their afterglows.)

In regards to the shields and instruments, even in light of the growth that will take place for characters with Adoulin equipment, these in particular are still at the highest caliber and will not be addressed in the plans mentioned above.

While I'm unable to talk about the specifics at this point in time, as soon as the time comes where I can, I will be sure to let you all know.



I'd like to deeply apologize for mentioning "Don’t throw away your relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons" during an interview. Relic, mythic, and empyrean (below R/M/E weapons) take a great deal of time and difficulty to obtain, and this expression was extremely lacking in consideration for all of the players who tried so hard to complete them.

What I wished to convey was that we will be implementing a system to build on R/M/E weapons, so please have them in your possession, and there was no other meaning intended.

In regards to this system, the outline has been finished; however, we have yet to test if what we have planned can be realized and if we can secure the proper amount of manpower to continue it. We are at a point in time right now where it's difficult to explain the details, so please allow us to discuss this another day.

For the Adoulin end-game content aimed at the top players, where they can obtain high level equipment as well, we will gradually make adjustments to difficulty so that once new end-game content is released you'll be able to obtain these items if you put in a bit of effort.

Also, we will similarly be adjusting content in existing areas, though it may take some time and be a limited time event.



Matsui here.

I have some follow-up information regarding how we plan to build on relic, mythic, empyrean, and Walk of Echoes ("coin") weapons (I'll refer to them as RMEC below. Apologies that I left out coin weapons in my last post).

There are many who feel upset and uneasy regarding the recently introduced weapons, as well as the information that has been conveyed until now. So while this information is still not finalized, I would like to give a bit more insight into our plans.

We are planning to unlock the special weapon skills that are granted from RMEC weapons when you have upgraded them to their level 99 form (this includes non-afterglow weapons, and shield/instruments will not be included in this). However, we plan on adding some conditions that fall in line with the jobs that can equip the respective RMEC weapons.

As we have yet to finish all the testing as to whether or not we can do this, please let me again reiterate that this is not yet finalized.

Due to the nature of this topic, we definitely need to proceed carefully, so despite the fact that I'm only mentioning this at the idea level, I understand that the level of disappointment will be quite great if I say that it is too difficult to accomplish this after all, and I was thinking it would be best to let you all know once it took a bit more shape.

You're probably thinking "if that’s the case, then don’t announce anything," but because I thought it wouldn't be good to not let you know anything until plans were finalized I decided to make this post. (I've been under so much stress I feel like I'm going to get an ulcer >< But I know I shouldn't be complaining.)

While the memories you made and the stats on your equipment cannot always be proportionate, we are trying our best to see if we can keep all of the effort spent on earning these weapons intact.

We plan to do all that we can, but please give us some time for this.


Pretty sure this is all the relevant dev info that we've been given.
Emphasis mine.

[svengalis]

I get what you mean. They've said they'll fix R/E/M they could do something rubbish like make the WSs better...

But....I mean. Is it worth getting this angry over something which we know is going to be addressed?

Now that I had time to think about this I think it is. You can make the adoulin weapons 10x(30x if your talking mythics) faster then you can get a R/E/M to 99. They also don't cost you a thing. How many people actually have fully upgraded R/E/M?

[Manux]

if you ask me they are not going to remap due to the fact it will take alot of time the currency's have gone down to 5k each now in Asura server. If you want your own relic nows the time lol

[Satonaka]

I'm all for the WS being transferred to the new delve/boss drop weapons via a 99 REMC

So the weapon loses it's shiny coat and it's unique look. It's no different than a car losing it's shine over the years. It doesn't negate the hard work and maintenance you put into the car to keep it running good this long, but sometimes you just gotta upgrade to the better model because nothing lasts forever.

[Zumi]

Well using the Swords in terms of DPS
Almace > Excalibur > Burtgang > Buramenk'ah > Halachuinic Sword

On other weapons the order of relic mythic empyrean will change, but you will see a similar result with them being top again for now until the next content. Relics damage procs, and odd on empyrean will beat out the boss delve sword. But is this what people really wanted though? What will happen next content update when stronger stuff is released they won't be the best anymore but probably still useable. With how few people are even killing Delve Bosses to get the key items I can see people going for relics for a weapon that is better then delve boss weapons, but doesn't that make the bosses kind of pointless, well you could get rich selling crafting mats but then still.

Excalibur
DMG: 121 Delay: 233 Attack+60 Accuracy+20 "Knights of Round" Additional effect: Damage varies with HP

Burtgang
DMG: 131 Delay: 264 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 Enmity+18 Physical damage taken -18% Reduces Enmity decrease when taking damage. "Atonement" Aftermath: Increases Acc./Atk./Occ. Attacks twice or thrice

Almace
DMG: 114 Delay: 224 Attack+20 Accuracy+20 DEX+20 "Chant du Cygne" Aftermath: Occ. deals double damage

Halachuinic Sword
DMG:104 Delay:228 Accuracy+16 Attack+15
Aguments: +15 attack +10 acc +10 str

Buramenk'ah
DMG:130 Delay:240 STR+13 Accuracy+25 Attack+25 "Double Attack"+3%

[Metaking]

well when using the boss weapons as an example in this line up for swords, there going to be the best off handed weapon, tho almace excal and burt/tazonia/cant remember rdms sword, are going to depend on venerables for which is best, that 40 attack difference is a big deal but moving on.

The delve boss weapons will be nice jewels for those sometimes jobs like for me mnk, i will never take the time to make relic knuckles i just dont care about it enough tho i use it some times so the delve weapon would be perfect for me(assuming people start killing them regularly) i can buy it with plasma if i ever beat the trex tho probably take me a week to farm the 200k plasma (really not that much different from a magin trail there in time) and be pretty styling tho, i dont think i should be up to that mnk that made a 99 relic that took 2-3 months tho.

[Unctgtg]

Can we get an update on these Developers? Been a while since anyone has posted anything.

[Olor]

I don't think we care about relics being slightly outclassed or on/par with these new weapons, but outclassing them by 30% is what most people are complaining about.

Welp, a lot of RMEs been outclassing alternatives by similar percentages for a long time. I didn't see RME folks complaining when they could lord their shinies over the peasants and make it so that a person couldn't dream of being a DD in anything but lol content unless they had an army to farm for them, or a lot of spare time and no aversion to utter boredom.


Roundabout, but the "WHY" Street is a two way road. Everyone keeps asking Relic owners "WHy should you..." This, and "Why do you..." That, but, I mean, with all the "RME ARE SO EASY" Flying around, why do you guys insist they're so hard, yet at the same time insist they're so easy so they should be replaced.

I've never said they are easy. That said, I do believe the only skills it takes to obtain one is patience and no aversion to boredom. Crikes, I find plasm farming dull too but at least I don't have to solo it, or try to convince some mooks it is in their best interest to spend hours farming for MY weapon.

Why? Because the game was getting to the point where to play a DD (which most jobs are) in current content you had to have REM. If anyone is to blame it's the folks (all with REM) who limited invites for DD to every relevant event to people with REM.

The people who got their panties in a knot telling me how terrible I was for not planning to make an almace for my blue mage - they brought this content on. SE probably came to the conclusion that requiring people to solo for a year to be able to play most jobs in group content was killing the game (be honest, how many newbies have you helped get an REM for? How about just people who weren't around when you were in major Emp farming mode?)

It wasn't sustainable. Delve, while horribly boring, at least rewards people pretty equally, unlike every other major weapon class out there. That means, instead of the stupid disincentive to help other people build weapons (which is REM) - the content rewards you for helping other people reach their goals. They made the weapons better so that people who have REM would participate in the content. They got your attention, didn't they?


These are really just devils advocate questions, but I mean enough is enough, some of you keep ragging and laughing at Relic owners, and you keep dodging any questions as to why you think this is good instead of just dancing in a circle about how laziness finally paid off.

I think it is good because for once a super weapon class doesn't require either soloing or exploitation to get done. That's why. No one invited me to a "relic farming LS" or "empy weapon LS" before - why? Cause they didn't need me, and having me around just meant more work for them to get what they wanted. I'm in a delve LS now and it s great. The content ENCOURAGES teamwork and LSes and FRIENDSHIP since it is no longer a zero sum game (I get weapon, you can have some +2 items that you probably don't need anymore since we've farmed 3 million carabosses)


Why do you feel these laughably easy to obtain weapons should be 30% Stronger than a 99 Relic? Why do you feel relics should be outclassed when most if not all owners put in substantial time and effort? Why do you think Less Effort > More Effort in terms of rewards? Why should players who dont want to do the work get the best? Why can't you be happy with what you put forth the effort to obtain?

Because the game needed a reset. Because a game where someone starting out is expected to solo a year doing incredibly boring things to be allowed to not be laughed out of content is a game that is going down the tube. Because making people do OLD OLD content to be relevant in new content is asinine. Because I pay the same monthly fee as you, and while I don't expect to have as good gear as someone who plays more, I do expect to be able to play current, relevant content on my own schedule, and to be able to improve my character in meaningful ways. I also don't think being immune to boredom/masochistic should be a requirement for anyone wanting to be a DD.

[Olor]

Basically you, with your patience/playtime/skill/dedication/gil/masochism etc whatever you want to call it, are still going to have a better weapon than me (more airlixirs, boss weapons,more gear, more weapons) - it just won't be the massive gap it was before. I don't see what the hairy deal is with SE wanting to break down the inpentrable wall that was blocking people from playing the jobs they wanted to play. It just makes it so casuals are not utterly useless as DD. people with good gear swaps/better sets/boss weapons will still be better, don't fear... But sorry I mean think of the RDMs who played for years waiting on their turn for a dchap (i know people who never ever got one even) - now they drop to the floor... It's not a big deal, so the shiny you made before is less useful... Welp so is my toci's harness, deal with it.

[Tamoa]

Olor, I get what you're saying but I'd like to repeat something that others (including Karbuncle) have said before:

It's not the fact that good, easy-to-obtain weapons have been added to the game that's upsetting R/E/M holders. It's the fact that these weapons absolutely CRUSH their 99 R/E/M counterparts that's making people angry. Take me for example - I finished 99-ing my Masamune less than 2 weeks before this update, after having spent countless hours making gil to buy plates and cinders (I don't have a fishbot mule army and I most certainly don't buy gil). It actually felt like an accomplishment finishing it - how do you think I felt when 2 weeks later, Delve was introduced? It would have been absolutely fine if the Delve GK was on par with my Masamune. But the fact that my Masamune is now irrelevant and collecting dust in my MH - together with my Amanomurakumo - makes me sad, and I feel utterly cheated by SE.

I don't need my R/Es (I don't have a mythic) to be the best of the best of the best, I don't mind if there are other, more easily obtained weapons that are comparable. As far as I know, the skirmish GK was a good alternative, but SE went and made that event pointless to do a month after it was released. However, I do mind that my time and effort have been for nothing.

Edit: I wholeheartedly believe this all could have been avoided if SE had already planned out how to improve 99 R/E/Ms beforehand, and released that info at the same time Delve was introduced. The fact that it apparently never occurred to them the kind of s**tstorm the release of Delve weapons would cause, is nothing short of amazing - a bad kind of amazing.

[Zumi]

Can we get an update on these Developers? Been a while since anyone has posted anything.

Its probably like 2 updates at least out, because they said it wasn't going to be in the next update.

[Demon6324236]

This is June though, our supposed large update from what I know, so maybe it will be, after all we have skipped a month, perhaps they delayed the entire update to just fuse it with this one?

[Taint2]

Its probably like 2 updates at least out, because they said it wasn't going to be in the next update.



^ This, my guess is the Sept update.

[Raksha]

Basically you, with your patience/playtime/skill/dedication/gil/masochism etc whatever you want to call it, are still going to have a better weapon than me (more airlixirs, boss weapons,more gear, more weapons) - it just won't be the massive gap it was before. I don't see what the hairy deal is with SE wanting to break down the inpentrable wall that was blocking people from playing the jobs they wanted to play. It just makes it so casuals are not utterly useless as DD. people with good gear swaps/better sets/boss weapons will still be better, don't fear... But sorry I mean think of the RDMs who played for years waiting on their turn for a dchap (i know people who never ever got one even) - now they drop to the floor... It's not a big deal, so the shiny you made before is less useful... Welp so is my toci's harness, deal with it.


Call me when your Toci's harness cost 600m gil and months worth of nyzul/assaults/einherjar.

[Unctgtg]

Just like we are suppose to get two new smns that was said 2 years ago.

[Zumi]

Just like we are suppose to get two new smns that was said 2 years ago.

Yea and 2nd, 2 hour ability lol

[Babygyrl]

Can we get an update on these Developers? Been a while since anyone has posted anything.

i Would like an update on the current trials.. i know we know a trial will not be needed for the new r/e/m boost.. but the trials as they are now are still unfair and unbalanced compared to the new delve weapons.. its a fact that these delve weapons are overall easier to obtain and upgrade then their predecessors.. If you are going to make the game easy street lets make it a bit more equal for everyone

[pretre]

update on r/e/m yes please, also put war on the plasma axe, makes no sense warrior can use plasma dagger sword and club but not the axe

[Olor]

It actually felt like an accomplishment finishing it - how do you think I felt when 2 weeks later, Delve was introduced? It would have been absolutely fine if the Delve GK was on par with my Masamune. But the fact that my Masamune is now irrelevant and collecting dust in my MH - together with my Amanomurakumo - makes me sad, and I feel utterly cheated by SE.

Edit: I wholeheartedly believe this all could have been avoided if SE had already planned out how to improve 99 R/E/Ms beforehand, and released that info at the same time Delve was introduced. The fact that it apparently never occurred to them the kind of s**tstorm the release of Delve weapons would cause, is nothing short of amazing - a bad kind of amazing.

I get what you are saying, I feel you on this aspect.

I don't know. I agree they messed up with the implentation, not just their evasive "don't throw your epic weapons away!" Remark but by putting a 20 minute timer on the nms after the fact instead of right at the beginning.

I also hear a lot of REM holders not just saying "I want my weapon to be competitive" but saying "I deserve to be the best forever because I did this." I don't agree with that. I think it healthy for the game to refresh every once in awhile.

I also think if they do boost RME it shouldn't just be level 99 weapons, it should be 90 and above (less boost for lower levels)

[Zumi]

Since we got the new +188 skill weapons which assume drop from new wildskeepers with the other half of the weapons coming in August. Whenever they decide to do the relic update won't that just make them still bad compared to these new +188 skill weapons.

Example
Tamaxchi Club - DMG:88 Delay:216 INT+5 MND+5 Magic Accuracy+90 "Magic Atk. Bonus"+12 Magic Damage+99 Club skill +188 Parrying skill +188 Healing magic skill+15 "Cure" potency+22%

Xbalanque Scythe - DMG:256 Delay:528 STR+12 DEX+12 Scythe skill +188 Parrying skill +188 "Double Attack"+3%

Ixtab Great Axe - DMG:245 Delay:504 STR+12 VIT+12 Element: Earth+20 Great axe skill +188 Parrying skill +188 "Store TP"+8

[Tamoa]

I cancelled my subscription today and I can safely say I do not regret it after reading the update notes and seeing the new gear.

[Daemon]

I cancelled my subscription today and I can safely say I do not regret it after reading the update notes and seeing the new gear.

I'm heading in the same direction as you. This game has become pointless. Goals such has REM has become valueless. Delve weapons are the best in damage, but it's damage is one thing, it's damage strong enough to make special stats on every single weapon before it worth ignoring is another.

Did over 13K damage on Megamaw Mikey. As a Scholar >.> while its fun, it's pointless. SCH is not DD, not like I gain any benefit from doing this anywhere else. In a way it's like having false power. Mikey is only 1 NM that this can be done on and nothing else really.

Each time I login I wonder what else should I do? Then I think about salvage, NNI... My inventory is shot with too many gear sets for delve. I don't have room for anything else. No matter how many times I drop merit and put it on something else? It's just out of boredom really. So yeah, I'm heading in the same direction. Pack up a hiking bag and heading out the door soon.

[Richwood]

I cancelled my subscription today and I can safely say I do not regret it after reading the update notes and seeing the new gear.

About in the same boat.

[Richwood]

What I really do not understand is why SE is not even keeping us updated on what they are planning, secondly why it is not being implemented asap!

[Zagen]

What I really do not understand is why SE is not even keeping us updated on what they are planning, secondly why it is not being implemented asap!

Too much going wrong, desire to add new stuff over adjusting old issues, and likely highly understaffed. In short it's fairly obvious SE is either completely clueless on how to keep 11 going or they have no desire to keep it going and are letting it die off while still making it look like they're trying to keep it alive.

[svengalis]

What I really do not understand is why SE is not even keeping us updated on what they are planning, secondly why it is not being implemented asap!

Because people complain when they don't add what they say they are going to add when they said when they were going to add it.

[Zagen]

Because people complain when they don't add what they say they are going to add when they said when they were going to add it.

Not like projecting timelines with padding to account for "surprises" is a skill worth having as developer.

[nyheen]

I cancelled my subscription today and I can safely say I do not regret it after reading the update notes and seeing the new gear.

ya!. how dare SE keep making new gear/weapons. i want my 7year old R/E/M weapon to still be better!

[Tamoa]

ya!. how dare SE keep making new gear/weapons. i want my 7year old R/E/M weapon to still be better!

Did I say that? No, I did not. You can search any FFXI forum you like and you will never find a post by me where I say I want R/E/Ms to be better. I want them to stay RELEVANT. And I'm most certainly not the only one. Besides, the R/E/M issue isn't the only reason I cancelled my content IDs.

[Alpheus]

Well probably me reading too much into it but the way they almost pointlessly said that revamped RME will have Item levels above 100 implies that when revamped RMEs will have the Skill + attributes added to them, since they mentioned only atk+ or acc+ on weapons in general (and from their POV) are detrimental to DW jobs since its more of a choice than with 2handed weapon classes. So maybe that's why there's a ton of Skill+ on all weapons (they are retroactively adding this trait to all post Adoulin weaponry) since Skill affects both attack and Acc and they can add it to weapons in a single term.

Admittedly though this doesn't explain why it's taking them so long other than stuff was already in production and planned when the first uproar came about and it won't be till after August where anything planned is done and they can then focus on Player wants. Granted that explanation doesn't do much to assuage players who are turned off by their new direction.

[Richwood]

ya!. how dare SE keep making new gear/weapons. i want my 7year old R/E/M weapon to still be better!

I guess the first question here is to ask Mr.Nyheen if he has ever even bothered putting the effort into making an REM or into any long term goal in the game before commenting on some thing he "may" be clueless on? Have you? just interested to know as a 10 year player myself. I think it is great SE has decided to offer content to the casual player base while leaving some niche high end content for players seeking a larger challenge. I am not against others having nice shiny things at all. I am just more in the same boat as Tamoa and would like to see long term achievements stay relevant.

[Lotto]

I cancelled my subscription today and I can safely say I do not regret it after reading the update notes and seeing the new gear.

Same here, my CC is expiring and there's no way i'll put a new one when I see how ridiculous and over powered all that new gear is.

Funny thing: when I went to sleep last night, only 650 people were in game, I guess it shows how much people lost faith in the devs.

[Direct]

ya!. how dare SE keep making new gear/weapons. i want my 7year old R/E/M weapon to still be better!

What a bellend you are! R/E/M 99 Versions are nowere near 7 years old, heck empyreans themselves are much younger than the other two you listed overall.

Se should never have allowed R/M to goto 99 if they didn't want to continue the trend on.

[nyheen]

let see. i help over 7+ people with relic, before the dynamis update. you know the time when it was over 40+ members in your pt farming there. done 1 emp for me 50% solo/duo, help 4+ for g/f. duoing. and help 1 on Mythic. yes the whole thing and iam not doing that anymore>.>

since that stuff was in the past. them weapons are nothing more then a trophy, but now it time for some new stuff. they not going to want to keep updating the same R/E/M if they keep throwing other stronger and better weapons at us. got all my +2 emp AF and the new gear out class most of it. times is changing and it going fast. this is more of a very easy casual player game, nothing like like how it was in the past. i saw the changes started to slowly happen once abyssea came out. you know the traditional challenging pts diying because of it? but i wont get into that since i will be flamed.

but anyways now it looking like most AH weapons out class some delve ones. this is the path most casual players want. so i just stop caring and just go with the flow. RIP old school XI

[Karbuncle]

but anyways now it looking like most AH weapons out class some delve ones. this is the path most casual players want. so i just stop caring and just go with the flow. RIP XI

Fixed that for you, and I understand your go-with-the-flow mindset... quite mellow.

But, Most(MOST!!) Casuals are a fleeting skid-mark on MMOs, and rather they enjoy it or not they'll move on to the next shiny-game in a matter of months... And this game ain't attracting new players lol, especially with FFXIV so close to done, so any FF fanboys who may have jumped on XI will probably hit the new MMO first.

Still, FFXI is no more, The game is essentially boiling down to WoWClone Online like every other MMO created after WoW, Which honestly I don't hate WoW, its a solid, very popular game with well made content that really attracts people to it, but its gameplay, what works for WoW was not what worked for FFXI. they had separate plans and events and so forth, this new director is trying to blend them but its failing because WoW was designed with this gear ladder in mind, FFXI Was not. I didn't pick up FFXI to play a WoW clone, Hell i enjoyed FFXI because it was so different, yet still managed to be fun despite it flaws.

I know its hard to accept but if you /sea all and you're honest with yourself, You'll notice the dwindling population. My a** was so addicted to FFXI I've been playing since NA Beta, and I've finally hit the point where I've said f**k it and quit, Tamoa is on the same boat as me, playing forrreevveerrr... Seriously I'm the type who used to always say "I'm going to play to the servers close!", I used to have dreams about playing XI IRL, I sometimes woke up in the morning trying to Change jobs or equip clothes for work, yah, half-awake gooo...

And they drove me away, Others like me will follow and I'm not delusional enough to think this will immediately kill XI, while I'm sure FFXI will live on for at least another year or more, if people wanted WoW they'd play WoW, this "New design" smell will wear off and even those people who enjoy it will get sick of it in a year or two when they realize nothing they work for matters anymore and most of the players who could carry them through events have tossed in the towel.

And if the game doesn't almost completely phase into obscurity and they have to merge servers again, I'll be shocked, especially with FFXIV Being released soon... But if they do stay alive I won't throw a fit, in fact I'll be proud of how the game survived... Even if I'm not on the boat anymore, doesn't mean i want it to sink.

[svengalis]

I'm heading in the same direction as you. This game has become pointless. Goals such has REM has become valueless. Delve weapons are the best in damage, but it's damage is one thing, it's damage strong enough to make special stats on every single weapon before it worth ignoring is another.

Did over 13K damage on Megamaw Mikey. As a Scholar >.> while its fun, it's pointless. SCH is not DD, not like I gain any benefit from doing this anywhere else. In a way it's like having false power. Mikey is only 1 NM that this can be done on and nothing else really.

Each time I login I wonder what else should I do? Then I think about salvage, NNI... My inventory is shot with too many gear sets for delve. I don't have room for anything else. No matter how many times I drop merit and put it on something else? It's just out of boredom really. So yeah, I'm heading in the same direction. Pack up a hiking bag and heading out the door soon.

Dele weapons were not meant to take on add Abyssea content it was meant to take on aldoulin content.

[Peepiopi]

No. Relics should not be the best items in the game. The best items should 100% be from the Adoulin content. At least that's my opinion.

The devs have said that they are going for two forms of progression: lateral, and vertical. Basically, they are letting people who are still fixated on their R/M/E weapons to still be able to use them, but they are also providing more effective gear that is obtainable through their new expansion content that doesn't require the completion of older content and doesn't require the same time sink.

This is what everyone wants! It caters to both crowds. So I don't know anyone can really be upset about this. But there are people who will be... as always.

So if you're really quitting over these changes, then so long. A few less elitists to deal with in the game.

[Spectreman]

Did I say that? No, I did not. You can search any FFXI forum you like and you will never find a post by me where I say I want R/E/Ms to be better. I want them to stay RELEVANT. And I'm most certainly not the only one. Besides, the R/E/M issue isn't the only reason I cancelled my content IDs.


If they made Delve weapons to be as good as R/M/E you would be crying you took a long time having 17 suckers to farm for you and that took all your skills to accomplish for people to have the same stuff you got. Just quit the game if you can't live without useless sidegrades.

[Peepiopi]

If they made Delve weapons to be as good as R/M/E you would be crying you took a long time having 17 suckers to farm for you and that took all your skills to accomplish for people to have the same stuff you got. Just quit the game if you can't live without useless sidegrades.

I kind of have to agree. It's one of those "uphill both ways, through the snow" situations. Some people reject the idea of gear being better and easier to get than their own gear, which took more of a time commitment to obtain. In my opinion, it's their loss if they can't accept that better, more up-to-date gear is coming out. Let them grumble and moan, while I get my delve gear. Relics will always be cool, just like Thunderfury or Shadowmourne is still cool, but they had their time and the game is moving on.

[Byrth]

In my opinion, it's their loss if they can't accept that better, more up-to-date gear is coming out. Let them grumble and moan, while I get my delve gear.

I got the Delve gear in a week. What should I do for the next 3 months, now that SE had outdated RMEs? AFK in Western Adoulin?

[Almantia]

Didn't an SE rep say 'don't throw away your RME'? Crikey, Adoulin is only a couple of months old. It wouldn't be a surprise if a few patches down the line (when SE STOP SCREWING UP THE NEW ONES AND MAKE THEM WORK FIRST TIME /soapbox) that those same weapons will get NMs and quests to make them again the best ones in the game. Just cos they aren't atm doesn't mean they're obsolete!

[Karah]

I got the Delve gear in a week. What should I do for the next 3 months, now that SE had outdated RMEs? AFK in Western Adoulin?

AFK in Port J, obviously~

[Lotto]

No. Relics should not be the best items in the game. The best items should 100% be from the Adoulin content. At least that's my opinion.

The devs have said that they are going for two forms of progression: lateral, and vertical. Basically, they are letting people who are still fixated on their R/M/E weapons to still be able to use them, but they are also providing more effective gear that is obtainable through their new expansion content that doesn't require the completion of older content and doesn't require the same time sink.

This is what everyone wants! It caters to both crowds. So I don't know anyone can really be upset about this. But there are people who will be... as always.

So if you're really quitting over these changes, then so long. A few less elitists to deal with in the game.

You just don't get it. The problem with REMs is the time it takes to make them. We spent months and used millions to make them just to realize that they became useless in 1 single update. If they want to make replacements to REMs then they should have made the requirements as hard as the REMs trials.
Do you think it's normal to be able to get a way better weapon in 45mins than one that cost 200-400M to make? And i'm not even talking about the time it takes.

Also I love the famous "elitists" argument, just because we made more efforts in our jobs than you did doesn't make us elitist.

[Almantia]

I hate the word elitist; 'dedicated' is better. A dedicated player spends the time, resources, and just plain grrr must have mentality to obtain an RME. 'Casual' is pretty accurate, I define myself as a casual, but because I'm casual about not spendng the time, resources, and just plain grrr to get one of those items. Do I give a brown wet smelly thing about not having one? No, because it's not something that important to me. If it is to you, and you have the t/r/grr to do it, good luck and congrats on getting it.

Don't judge me on not having one though.

[Peepiopi]

You just don't get it. The problem with REMs is the time it takes to make them. We spent months and used millions to make them just to realize that they became useless in 1 single update. If they want to make replacements to REMs then they should have made the requirements as hard as the REMs trials.
Do you think it's normal to be able to get a way better weapon in 45mins than one that cost 200-400M to make? And i'm not even talking about the time it takes.

Also I love the famous "elitists" argument, just because we made more efforts in our jobs than you did doesn't make us elitist.

You're absolutely right. Putting effort into earning something doesn't make you elitist. However, there are some people who would prevent other players progression by not inviting them to delve farms even though they have viable gear, only because they didn't get the same items as the they themselves got. I would call those people elitist. Whether you feel that you're in that category, then that's up to you.

What you are really complaining about is that either you don't like the fact that your RMEs are now replaceable, or you don't like that others can get comparable gear an easier way. My point is... that's not a problem. Not in the least.


I got the Delve gear in a week. What should I do for the next 3 months, now that SE had outdated RMEs? AFK in Western Adoulin?

Go kill stuff. That's why you got the gear, is it not?

[Lotto]

What you are really complaining about is that either you don't like the fact that your RMEs are now replaceable, or you don't like that others can get comparable gear an easier way. My point is... that's not a problem. Not in the least.


It's not a problem for you, don't make a generalization and assume everyone thinks the same. I don't mind that REMs are replaceable, I just don't like the fact that something you worked so hard for is now destroyed by weapons so easy to get that it doesn't even take a day to make them.
How would you feel if you spent months to obtain one of the best possible weapon for your job and 2 weeks later, it's replaced by something better that you could get in a 30mins fight? Feel free to make a REM and you'll understand.

[Peepiopi]

It's not a problem for you, don't make a generalization and assume everyone thinks the same. I don't mind that REMs are replaceable, I just don't like the fact that something you worked so hard for is now destroyed by weapons so easy to get that it doesn't even take a day to make them.
How would you feel if you spent months to obtain one of the best possible weapon for your job and 2 weeks later, it's replaced by something better that you could get in a 30mins fight? Feel free to make a REM and you'll understand.

It's my opinion. Take it with a grain of salt. And I have farmed ridiculous gear before in other games only for them to be obsolete with the next expansion. So I fully understand your sentiments, but it doesn't diminish the the accomplishment at all. They're still cool items and YOU put in the effort into earning that cool gear. Good job! But the game is moving on with better gear and newer content. It means is there is better gear out there that you can get, but not devote the huge time sink into getting. Instead of complaining about it, you could be getting that better gear, and just keep your Relic for personal pride. You can get over it, or you can quit.

I'm not going to put the time into getting RMEs because I don't need to as you never HAD to farm it in the first place. As a player coming back to the game after a long hiatus, the Adoulin gear is far more appealing. If that bothers you, then so be it.

[Almantia]

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/37939/matsui-dont-throw-away-your-rme-weapons-yet

That is all.

[Daemon]

http://www.ffxiah.com/forum/topic/37939/matsui-dont-throw-away-your-rme-weapons-yet

That is all.

One of my biggest arguments in several threads was that I tried to tell people that REM is not worthless and that upgrades were spoken of. So many people in town telling others not to even bother with them.

I too saw this post. And tried to encourage people to do it. Only reason is that if SE implements new upgrades and the basic requirement is to already have existing ones at 99 first. How sad it will be when players who thought or believed others telling them not to do it find out they cannot participate in the new upgrade when the day arrives.

Even though it may not look like it will surpass the super delve items that are crafted. The trade off is all about the Weaponskills. People also think SE won't go through with it based on previous announcements made and have yet to see the day of light.

In my opinion, the situation is not the same. You didn't have almost the entire community disappointed over anything as high as this. Some rage quitting, threatening to quit, huge out pour not just from NA stand point but also Japanese players expressing concern. But the again we will just have to wait and see.

.

[svengalis]

I got the Delve gear in a week. What should I do for the next 3 months, now that SE had outdated RMEs? AFK in Western Adoulin?

You are telling me you have all the Delve gear + boss weapons and it's all leveled to 15... I find that hard to believe. I guess you also missed the update Tuesday where they added new wildskeeper.

[svengalis]

You just don't get it. The problem with REMs is the time it takes to make them. We spent months and used millions to make them just to realize that they became useless in 1 single update. If they want to make replacements to REMs then they should have made the requirements as hard as the REMs trials.
Do you think it's normal to be able to get a way better weapon in 45mins than one that cost 200-400M to make? And i'm not even talking about the time it takes.

Also I love the famous "elitists" argument, just because we made more efforts in our jobs than you did doesn't make us elitist.

REM's aren't useless, they just are not designed for aldoulin content. You guys asked for harder content then SE gave us aldoulin. A new expansion with new gear. Who would have thunk it SE designed a expansion around the new gear upgrades. There was only so far they could go with harder content with REM's.

[Byrth]

I have the KIs and something like 700k Plasm after buying all that I care to buy. I'm obviously capable of clearing the hardest current content and SE's new "outdate everything before the body gets cold" strategy leaves me unexcited about min/maxing jobs that I don't use, so I'd say I'm done.

[Tamoa]

If they made Delve weapons to be as good as R/M/E you would be crying you took a long time having 17 suckers to farm for you and that took all your skills to accomplish for people to have the same stuff you got. Just quit the game if you can't live without useless sidegrades.

Why are you talking like you know me? Because you don't - and let me set this straight; I never had any problems with SE releasing easy-to-obtain weapons that are comparable to R/E/Ms. But in case you missed it, that's NOT what happened here. SE released extremely easy-to-obtain weapons that totally crush R/E/Ms and made them worthless. Big difference.



No. Relics should not be the best items in the game. The best items should 100% be from the Adoulin content. At least that's my opinion.

The devs have said that they are going for two forms of progression: lateral, and vertical. Basically, they are letting people who are still fixated on their R/M/E weapons to still be able to use them, but they are also providing more effective gear that is obtainable through their new expansion content that doesn't require the completion of older content and doesn't require the same time sink.

This is what everyone wants! It caters to both crowds. So I don't know anyone can really be upset about this. But there are people who will be... as always.

So if you're really quitting over these changes, then so long. A few less elitists to deal with in the game.

Every R/E/M owner is still able to use their weapons. SE didn't make them disappear, I can still equip my 99 Masamune or my 99 Ragnarok. But for what though? Delve? They're pretty gimp in there, damage wise. And they're not good enough for Delve bosses. Of course I could use my R/E/Ms for older content that nobody does anymore because it's no longer relevant. Yeaok.

Yes, they've said they'll let us upgrade our R/E/Ms - but they don't seem to know how they'll go about implementing that, much less when. The fact that they didn't realize the kind of s**tstorm the introduction of Delve weapons would create, is nothing short of mindboggling to me. It would have been an entirely different story if they'd already had the plans drawn up as to how and when we'd be able to upgrade those R/E/Ms. But they didn't - instead they said "here, have these new weapons that make all your previous efforts be for nothing" and when they realized the amount of very angry customers they suddenly had on their hands, they're all "um.. ok, we'll fix your R/E/Ms but we don't really know how and much less when that'll happen." And that's just not good enough for me.

And if this is what everybody wants, why have so many quit already? Why are there one thread after another on so many forums, where people are expressing their deep dissatisfaction about the direction the game's going? You're delusional if you think this won't make a huge dent in the FFXI population, even moreso after FFXIV is released. I personally know several people who're only playing FFXI these days to pass the time till FFXIV comes out. And while that might not affect SE, it will certainly affect the remaining FFXI players.

Oh and for the record, I have quit. You two go ahead and enjoy the dwindling player population and doing Delve, Delve, Delve and even more Delve. And then some more Delve after that. I'm sure that'll keep you playing for years to come, just like old content kept me playing for 7+ years.

[Peepiopi]

Every R/E/M owner is still able to use their weapons. SE didn't make them disappear, I can still equip my 99 Masamune or my 99 Ragnarok. But for what though? Delve? They're pretty gimp in there, damage wise. And they're not good enough for Delve bosses. Of course I could use my R/E/Ms for older content that nobody does anymore because it's no longer relevant. Yeaok.

That's the idea. Delve weapons are supposed to be the focus. New game content is supposed to be incentivised. That's what makes successful MMOs. Why don't you understand this?


Yes, they've said they'll let us upgrade our R/E/Ms - but they don't seem to know how they'll go about implementing that, much less when. The fact that they didn't realize the kind of s**tstorm the introduction of Delve weapons would create, is nothing short of mindboggling to me. It would have been an entirely different story if they'd already had the plans drawn up as to how and when we'd be able to upgrade those R/E/Ms. But they didn't - instead they said "here, have these new weapons that make all your previous efforts be for nothing" and when they realized the amount of very angry customers they suddenly had on their hands, they're all "um.. ok, we'll fix your R/E/Ms but we don't really know how and much less when that'll happen." And that's just not good enough for me.

The "S**tstorm" is all in your head, and in the heads of a very small vocal crowd here. Most of the players I've encountered in the game are still having fun, and don't care about RMEs being a little weaker than Delve weapons.


And if this is what everybody wants, why have so many quit already? Why are there one thread after another on so many forums, where people are expressing their deep dissatisfaction about the direction the game's going? You're delusional if you think this won't make a huge dent in the FFXI population, even moreso after FFXIV is released. I personally know several people who're only playing FFXI these days to pass the time till FFXIV comes out. And while that might not affect SE, it will certainly affect the remaining FFXI players.

You're overestimating the number of people who you think that would quit the game over something like this, and you're underestimating the profit value of making end game and story content more accessible to a greater number of people. I'd venture to say that any one who quits over something as silly as this will easily be replaced, even if it's an older game. Believe it or not, there are still plenty of people just starting the game. My LS has a recruited a bunch of them.


Oh and for the record, I have quit. You two go ahead and enjoy the dwindling player population and doing Delve, Delve, Delve and even more Delve.

So long!

[nyheen]

fun fact.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/relic
Something that has survived the passage of time, especially an object or custom whose original culture has disappeared.
an artifact surviving from the past.
something kept as a remembrance or treasured for its past associations; keepsake.
old items from another time.

no comment...

[Tamoa]

That's the idea. Delve weapons are supposed to be the focus. New game content is supposed to be incentivised. That's what makes successful MMOs. Why don't you understand this?

Where's the incentive when gear's going to be replaced every few months? That's not how this game has been working for eleven years, why fix something that's not broken? There are no long term goals anymore, the majority of older events are now pointless to do - so you do Delve to get Delve gear and weapons, to do what? More Delve? Or just stand around looking pretty until the next update hits and you need to go through all that again?





The "S**tstorm" is all in your head, and in the heads of a very small vocal crowd here. Most of the players I've encountered in the game are still having fun, and don't care about RMEs being a little weaker than Delve weapons.

I take it you don't really frequent any other FFXI forums then. And I'm willing to bet the majority of those that don't care about R/M/Es being outclassed, never owned one in the first place (talking 99 versions here). Some R/M/E owners still play, yes - while waiting for SE to fix their weapons. Some have fun too (for now). Some don't care. But the majority do care.




You're overestimating the number of people who you think that would quit the game over something like this, and you're underestimating the profit value of making end game and story content more accessible to a greater number of people. I'd venture to say that any one who quits over something as silly as this will easily be replaced, even if it's an older game. Believe it or not, there are still plenty of people just starting the game. My LS has a recruited a bunch of them.

Actually no, I'm not overestimating anything. And those "plenty of people" you're talking about that just started the game will be outnumbered by the amount of people that have quit or will quit within the very near future. Not only that, but I'm willing to bet most of these newcomers will have quit themselves within less than a year. As for end game content accessible to a greater number of people, I'm all for that and always have been. But right now, Delve is the ONLY damn end game content worth doing.

What's pretty clear to me is that you never had the same kind of dedication to this game as I, and many with me, had. And you're not even willing to TRY looking at it from a different point of view, it's all "it doesn't affect me personally therefore noone else have the right to be upset about it either".

Let me ask you something: Wouldn't it have benefitted the game if SE already had clear plans outlined on how to upgrade R/E/Ms when they introduced Delve weapons? Then they would have made everybody happy by keeping R/E/Ms relevant while ALSO adding easy and good options for those that have no wish to make a R/E/M. How could it have possibly hurt the game if they'd done this instead of what they actually did do?

[Afania]

let see. i help over 7+ people with relic, before the dynamis update. you know the time when it was over 40+ members in your pt farming there. done 1 emp for me 50% solo/duo, help 4+ for g/f. duoing. and help 1 on Mythic. yes the whole thing and iam not doing that anymore>.>


Wow that's a pretty bad comparsion. Spent 600 hours of your time helping a friend building their REM, is different from spending 600 hours building YOUR REM. I don't even know if you really spend 600 hour or not....you can only spend 60hr helping friends and come telling everyone "I helped 10 REM", but let's assume you spent 600hr helping friends.

The time you spend on helping your friend building their REM, it's spent on THEM, to do your friend a favor. If SE make their REM shit, the time you spend on them, the favor you did still exist. If you helped a friend getting an item, you planned to invest your time on your friend(not REM) to begin with, thus whether REM is good or bad makes 0 difference. You helped your friend to do them a favor, now that their weapons are shit, do you think they'd suddenly pretend your never help them?

You spent time on your friends, knowing the result and outcome before you spend your time, and you made your choice based on the result and outcome. You may be helping friend because they've helped you, or you expected them to help you. Basically doing them a favor. Or maybe you just help them because you feel happy to help friends and see them happy, in that case you still get what you expected to get.

Ppl spending 150M 200M 600M on REM, they did not know the result and outcome before they spend their time. They thought it's gonna be the best for years or even until server shut down, based on how SE deal with REM back in the past. Suddenly SE changed the policy and all the REM owners were tricked. That's the real issue and the main difference. I bet 90% of REM owners won't spend 150M 200M 600M on REM if they knew SoA weapons would destory it.

If you spend 600hr of time on a friend, and he promised to help you 600hr after you're done(and for some reason you believed it), then he depop and pretend not knowing you after he got his help, call me if you don't feel being cheated and angry about it.

[Peepiopi]

fun fact.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/relic
Something that has survived the passage of time, especially an object or custom whose original culture has disappeared.
an artifact surviving from the past.
something kept as a remembrance or treasured for its past associations; keepsake.
old items from another time.

no comment...

Lol. So much truth.. A.K.A "Trophies". There is nothing wrong with trophies.


Where's the incentive when gear's going to be replaced every few months? That's not how this game has been working for eleven years, why fix something that's not broken? There are no long term goals anymore, the majority of older events are now pointless to do - so you do Delve to get Delve gear and weapons, to do what? More Delve? Or just stand around looking pretty until the next update hits and you need to go through all that again?

Perhaps that the lack of change over the last 11 years is what has made FFXI fall so far behind other popular MMOs. The new Director is trying to make more effort to improve the the game with quality of life changes, emphasize fresh game content, while making older content more accessible but not required for progression. If you don't like the direction the game is going, then quit! It's very simple.

I promise you that any GOOD game director will pursue new subscribership rather than focus on catering to a stubborn few. Figuratively assuming that new players "probably would" feel the same way as you if only they dredged through the snow uphill both ways just like you did just makes you seem stubborn and set in your ways.

Also. There is PLENTY of stuff to do in this game. If you feel that you have already done everything there is to do in the game, and you do not have any interest in waiting for upcoming patches, then perhaps it really is time for you to take a break indefinitely.

[Afania]

You're overestimating the number of people who you think that would quit the game over something like this, and you're underestimating the profit value of making end game and story content more accessible to a greater number of people. I'd venture to say that any one who quits over something as silly as this will easily be replaced, even if it's an older game. Believe it or not, there are still plenty of people just starting the game. My LS has a recruited a bunch of them.


My LS recruited a bunch of new/returning player too, for years. And I've seen them come and go after playing for a few weeks/months without 2nd thought for years too, the reason why they leave, is never because they don't own a REM(why would not owning an REM bother you if you don't even hit lv 99). Do you honestly think that's good profit to please those ppl, by sacrificing players that would play for years and log in everyday just to build a REM?



The "S**tstorm" is all in your head, and in the heads of a very small vocal crowd here. Most of the players I've encountered in the game are still having fun, and don't care about RMEs being a little weaker than Delve weapons.



That's not a very accurate observation, it's biased. From what I've seen, there are different reaction toward this issue, and it's probably something like this:

1. I don't care, I can't get an REM, I don't have one, and I'm happy that I don't need one anyways.

Those ppl are majority, I agree. But they're either gonna keep playing even if REM still relevant, or feel streessed that after 2 months they realized only 4 song BRD or Oatixur MNK gets delve boss + NM run pt invite. And if they don't do delve boss+NM run, they're farming 5~7k plasm a run when boss+NM pt farming 80k plasm a run.

The gap still exist, and it always exist. Stop pretending killing REM save the world.

2. I don't care, because I shit out a Mythic in 2 weeks and I make gil 20x faster than avg.

Those ppl either are extremely elite/hardcore(thus even lower population than REM owner that needs 3 months to 3 years to get one), or fishbot/buys gil.

3. I own a REM, and I'm pissed. But I'm still playing, because it's getting an update later. But I'll be careful before I invest time on hard to obtain gears. I feel unmotivated to do any new content, what's the point to do it, if everytime I get an item and it's garbage after 3 months?

This is the real majority middle class players that would pay money more than group 1 ppl. They used to own multiple account, and do events when they can, and try hard to have good performance. Now that they feel unmotivated, even if they still pay and play, doesn't mean they'll be as involved as it used to be. They'll just become another batch of come and go players after getting face slapped.

4. I'm not happy and I quit.


If you ask me, I'd say group 3 and 4 add together> group 2, and there are 100 ways to please group 1 players without killing REM.

[nyheen]

ya um btw i do have my own? and i never ask or care about getting help. i done it because i was bored and wanted something to do? not everyone does the, "i helped you so now you need to help me back" i got my fun out of it.

there people still butthurt about windows 98 being outclass by windows 7.
vcr outclass by blu ray.
my 400$ ps1 being outclass by a ps3.
now delve weapons/AH taking over, get with the times grandpa!

[Afania]

Perhaps that the lack of change over the last 11 years is what has made FFXI fall so far behind other popular MMOs. The new Director is trying to make more effort to improve the the game with quality of life changes, emphasize fresh game content, while making older content more accessible but not required for progression. If you don't like the direction the game is going, then quit! It's very simple.

I promise you that any GOOD game director will pursue new subscribership rather than focus on catering to a stubborn few. Figuratively assuming that new players "probably would" feel the same way as you if only they dredged through the snow uphill both ways just like you did just makes you seem stubborn and set in your ways.


Lol, you have no idea about MMO industry and how it works. A GOOD game director keep sub as large as possible, instead of killing it.

One fact about MMO, unless FFXI gets a relaunch, something like FFXI 2.0, with brand new graphic, marketing, game mechanics, new UI and everything, you're not gonna get new players. Killing REM and make all gears shit every 3 months will never get new players. New players doesn't even give a shit how endgame gear works in a 11 year old MMO. They're going to play new MMOs on the market, not a 11 year old MMO.

[Tamoa]

Perhaps that the lack of change over the last 11 years is what has made FFXI fall so far behind other popular MMOs. The new Director is trying to make more effort to improve the the game with quality of life changes, emphasize fresh game content, while making older content more accessible but not required for progression. If you don't like the direction the game is going, then quit! It's very simple.

I promise you that any GOOD game director will pursue new subscribership rather than focus on catering to a stubborn few. Figuratively assuming that new players "probably would" feel the same way as you if only they dredged through the snow uphill both ways just like you did just makes you seem stubborn and set in your ways.


Please enlighten me to which other MMOs are out there, that have been going for 11 years, with a comparable number of players who're actually willing to PAY to be able to play.

"If you don't like it, then quit." - Don't you see that while the reason people are quitting, doesn't affect you personally, the fact that people are quitting WILL eventually affect you. Less players = less people to do things with. Less subscriptions = less money for SE = less work put into FFXI. That shouldn't be so hard to grasp, I reckon.

I'll guarantee you that more people will quit over SoA than there will be new players joining because of SoA.

By the way you never answered the question I added in my previous post.

[Afania]

ya um btw i do have my own? and i never ask or care about getting help. i done it because i was bored and wanted something to do? not everyone does the, "i helped you so now you need to help me back" i got my fun out of it.

there people still butthurt about windows 98 being outclass by windows 7.
vcr outclass by blu ray.
my 400$ ps1 being outclass by a ps3.
now delve weapons/AH taking over, get with the times grandpa!



Or maybe you just help them because you feel happy to help friends and see them happy, in that case you still get what you expected to get.

I already said you may help just because you feel happy? You helped your friends for fun, expected to have fun, and you already got fun you were looking for. So why compare you help friend with ppl build REM?

Some ppl invest time on REM, not because it's fun to build REM. They build REM to use it, now they can't use it. Do you honestly think that's the same case as you?

If you invest your money on a company, then company bankrupted because producers made bad decisions and now you invest your money on nothing, aren't you feeling pissed?

Also, I invested money on PS1 to play PS1 game(and knowing PS2 and 3 gonna come out after 10 years), PS3 can't play PS1 game, just like how blue ray can't play VCR, they aren't even the same issue.

Invest money on PS1 for PS1 game, knowing PS1 would get replaced 5 years later, is different from invest money on a weapon because SE planned to make it relevant until server shut down. You knew PS1 would be dead, but you didn't know REM would. And PS3 isn't replacing PS2 and 1 anyways, new models can't read PS2 game if I remember correctly.

[Afania]

Please enlighten me to which other MMOs are out there, that have been going for 11 years, with a comparable number of players who're actually willing to PAY to be able to play.

"If you don't like it, then quit." - Don't you see that while the reason people are quitting, doesn't affect you personally, the fact that people are quitting WILL eventually affect you. Less players = less people to do things with. Less subscriptions = less money for SE = less work put into FFXI. That shouldn't be so hard to grasp, I reckon.

I'll guarantee you that more people will quit over SoA than there will be new players joining because of SoA.

By the way you never answered the question I added in my previous post.


Honestly I'm tired of seeing ppl saying "Game's better this way, because WoW's like that too, and WoW is No.1 MMO!"

Maybe those ppl should go work on a MMO, maybe they'll make a bunch of money selling their games!

Honestly, if making MMO is this easy, we won't see MMOs going F2P or shut down every year. Those ppl just wanted the game they want, without thinking about the consequences. Killing REM has way more negative impact on FFXI than REM owners getting face slapped. And you can already see why subs are dropping. I've got friends who still play, but just refuse to do any long term grind event because they don't want to get face slapped again. In XI if you don't have a long term grind goal, it's way too easy to quit when new games are out or rl gets busy.

[Demon6324236]

I love how people come here & say they like how the game is changing, to be like every single other MMO, rather than staying special and unique, the way people liked it for the last decade, and the reason we stayed all this time. Now that things are changing, people are leaving, will players who like other MMOs stay? Well lets see, there are only 5 new ones every year right? Almost all of them go free to play some months after because WoW is the only one that has worked on that system it seems, and yet, they want this game to be ruined as well. Thank you people for coming to this game and being happy with how its changing, rather than going to one of the other 15 games like this is becoming, so our unique game is crippled.

[Karbuncle]

Lol. So much truth.. A.K.A "Trophies". There is nothing wrong with trophies.

I have plenty of trophy items, Ascalon, Bano Del Sol, Rain Hat, Spelunker's Hat... All of them taking some level of difficulty to obtain due to their rarity, I got them full well knowing they were useless Trophy Items. There's a difference between obtaining the single most difficult item in the game to obtain by time or gil (R/M preupdate) and the Rather time/Gil consuming but obtainable items (REM after update) and a "Trophy Item". One is Obtained knowing its uselessness but rarity, the other is obtained with the idea it will remain best in slot as it has been for 11 years prior to this expansion.

Tamoa hit the nail on the head when she said you're so caught up in your own narrow vision you can't even begin to sorta comprehend the type of points we're trying to make here. In your head, Its fine cause you're not effected, right? I could likely dig up threads since SoA Started and find more than hundreds of "I Quit" responses/threads, or "I'm moving to FFXIV" threads/responses... and We all know Forum users don't make up the entire population, so while we can assume a large number of people are okay with this, we also have to assume a large number of folk are going to quit/did quit because of it as well.

The "Vocal Minority" argument has never really held water i mean, that excuse sure worked fo Jay Wilson and Diablo 3 right? What happened to him? Oh, He was fired from the position. Point is just because you aren't effected doesn't mean that the reality is the population at times is dipping well into the triple digit range, something I've never seen in my 11years in this game. When you can /sea all and see 600~ people online, Somethings wrong, when before SoA i would still see 1k+.


Perhaps that the lack of change over the last 11 years is what has made FFXI fall so far behind other popular MMOs. The new Director is trying to make more effort to improve the the game with quality of life changes, emphasize fresh game content, while making older content more accessible but not required for progression.

What "Popular MMOs"? Srsly. Every MMO i've seen released in the last decade short of WoW has become a dead ghost town in less than a Month, any of them that were Pay to play quickly went FTP and now have at best a small hardcore crowd... Not dissimilar to FFXI. But its clear if people want WoW, they'd play WoW, which is why all these WoW-killer clones fail.


I promise you that any GOOD game director will pursue new subscribership rather than focus on catering to a stubborn few.

Normally, you could be right, But FFXI is an 11 year old game and Square Enix is about to launch a new MMO, do you honestly think they're going to try and bring people to FFXI rather than FFXIV? Sure they my want you on both as an ideal situation but i guaranf**kintee you they want people on FFXIV so they can repair their reputation on the flop... This director is trying to keep us entertained in the short term in hopes the majority jump to FFXIV, and the remaining incompetent population struggle to beat the content so they can slow down on pumping it out... Why do you think it was so hard to everyone but an elite few when they know the game has been low-man/casual for years now? promise you.


Figuratively assuming that new players "probably would" feel the same way as you if only they dredged through the snow uphill both ways just like you did just makes you seem stubborn and set in your ways.

Sure, lets get those new players excited to hit level 99 through leech burning or non-existant exp parties so they can do nothing but Delve over and over again in an ever dwindling population where their Delve armor is going to be replaced before they have time to fully level all their subjobs.... Cause I know I can barely contain my excitement for that. Meaningless easily replaced victories and only 1 event of real importance to do over and over and over and over!

I mean, thats so much better than them being able to look at armor/weapons, plan long term goals, look at well over 8 Different Endgame events of varying difficulty that can be done to obtain respectable and powerful armor than has longevity and meaning to it that isn't immediately replaced.

The point I'm trying to make is are you playing the devils advocate? Cause theres no way SOA made FFXI a better game, all it did was kill he need to do every other event in FFXI outside of Delve, when before Delve you at least had Skirmish, Reives, Salvage II, Nyzul II, Dynamis, Einherjar (1 and 2 for Abjuration!), Meeble Burrows Bat/Saur, Voidwatch, Legion, and some I can't recall... But the point is clear, Even with SOA pre-delve, the game was a better place.


Also. There is PLENTY of stuff to do in this game

Bull. Farking. sh*t. I named 10 events above that were all relevant endgame events that offered a variety of content difficulty and rewards. Can you name the 10 events that replaced them when Delve came out? I can't. I can give you a headstart though, Nyzul 2 is still useful for 1piece a set at best, Salvage II offers 1-2 pieces a set at best, but outside of those... its almost entirely dead. Some of the old events remain a shred of relevance due to 1 item, maybe, but thats not really long term goal, that "I'll devote 1 day to it and then move on to delve". Some Nakuul drops are good until you get their delve versions...

I'm all for new game design choices, thinking outside the box to improve the game, but alienating and sh*tting on the on long term constant and reliable upgrade for 11 years simply to bring in some item-level sh*t was not the way to do it. Sure release new and awesome weapons, maybe make them 1% better/worse, a point thats so small it wouldnt matter which you have, but the REM community makes up a decent portion of us, and while many will move on, many will not, and many will quit.

Do you not see this is bad for the population as a whole? Yes, FFXI will continue to live on for at least another year, but the population dropping no matter how slowly is not good, and adding chunks of quitting by crap like this isn't helping. This MMO does not advertise at all, and FFXIV is blown up everywhere. I'm telling you 99% of new players are just old returning players starting new. This game is getting almost no real new players, so your argument falls straight through all the cracks already in it.

[Afania]

I love how people come here & say they like how the game is changing, to be like every single other MMO, rather than staying special and unique, the way people liked it for the last decade, and the reason we stayed all this time. Now that things are changing, people are leaving, will players who like other MMOs stay? Well lets see, there are only 5 new ones every year right? Almost all of them go free to play some months after because WoW is the only one that has worked on that system it seems, and yet, they want this game to be ruined as well. Thank you people for coming to this game and being happy with how its changing, rather than going to one of the other 15 games like this is becoming, so our unique game is crippled.

5 new ones a year? I'm surprised that it's not 50 MMO a year. If you count the titles made in China/Korea or Mobile platform MMOs,(Chinese/Koreans just love MMO and they make a bunch every year, some titles goes to US/EU) it's way more than 5 a year.

[Demon6324236]

I only see 5, then again, I never look, and I never care, because 99% of them suck and almost all of them are Free to Play in no time, which makes the game pointless to me. Point was, games keep coming, same format, flop, go F2P, FFXI has survived for a long time because its different, if it were like every other game why would we stay for a decade when we could just jump to a more modern game? Simple, its different, its unique by compare to everything else now days, so we stay for it, that, and the players & friends we have made for years. By SE changing it, they are killing their player base who has been around so long, and the people who support this change are not likely to stay anyways, so they are killing the game we know and love by supporting this change when chances are they will be gone soon anyways. It seems like they will not kill off the game we have played so long, but they will not even be around in the end to experience the changes to this game they supported.

[svengalis]

Where's the incentive when gear's going to be replaced every few months? That's not how this game has been working for eleven years, why fix something that's not broken? There are no long term goals anymore, the majority of older events are now pointless to do - so you do Delve to get Delve gear and weapons, to do what? More Delve? Or just stand around looking pretty until the next update hits and you need to go through all that again?






I take it you don't really frequent any other FFXI forums then. And I'm willing to bet the majority of those that don't care about R/M/Es being outclassed, never owned one in the first place (talking 99 versions here). Some R/M/E owners still play, yes - while waiting for SE to fix their weapons. Some have fun too (for now). Some don't care. But the majority do care.





Actually no, I'm not overestimating anything. And those "plenty of people" you're talking about that just started the game will be outnumbered by the amount of people that have quit or will quit within the very near future. Not only that, but I'm willing to bet most of these newcomers will have quit themselves within less than a year. As for end game content accessible to a greater number of people, I'm all for that and always have been. But right now, Delve is the ONLY damn end game content worth doing.

What's pretty clear to me is that you never had the same kind of dedication to this game as I, and many with me, had. And you're not even willing to TRY looking at it from a different point of view, it's all "it doesn't affect me personally therefore noone else have the right to be upset about it either".

Let me ask you something: Wouldn't it have benefitted the game if SE already had clear plans outlined on how to upgrade R/E/Ms when they introduced Delve weapons? Then they would have made everybody happy by keeping R/E/Ms relevant while ALSO adding easy and good options for those that have no wish to make a R/E/M. How could it have possibly hurt the game if they'd done this instead of what they actually did do?

I think you are overreacting. Every expansion that comes out the gear in the previous expansion becomes irrelevant. Thus time they did it with weapons to. I own 4 empyrean weapons but I'm not making a big deal about this. The only thing that concerns me is what to do with these weapons now because they are taking up inventory space. I'm actually glad they made easier to make end game weapons. Now I won't feel so bad about tossing them when new ones come out.

[svengalis]

Lol, you have no idea about MMO industry and how it works. A GOOD game director keep sub as large as possible, instead of killing it.

One fact about MMO, unless FFXI gets a relaunch, something like FFXI 2.0, with brand new graphic, marketing, game mechanics, new UI and everything, you're not gonna get new players. Killing REM and make all gears shit every 3 months will never get new players. New players doesn't even give a shit how endgame gear works in a 11 year old MMO. They're going to play new MMOs on the market, not a 11 year old MMO.

What gears were released and three months later they become shit ? Skirmish was done for people who wanted low man options for end game gear. Delve was made for people who wanted to do large groups and obtain end game gear. Don't you think you should get better gear if more people are required to do said content to get that gear?

[Tamoa]

Every expansion that comes out the gear in the previous expansion becomes irrelevant.

This is flat out wrong.


I own 4 empire answer but I'm not making a big deal about this.

Going to assume you mean you own 4 empyrean weapons. Are any of them level 99?

[Stompa]

I still use my magian 99's and am still working on my Mythic. The point some people here are missing about delve weaps, when they say "every new expansion makes old gear irrelevant" (wrong) is that previous expansions the new basic armor/weaps were maybe +5% to +10% more powerful than basic old armor/weaps. Delve dmg is at least +125% higher than Magian 99's ( the Abyssea era "democratised weapon class" that any casual player could obtain with no gil and using solo effort, yielding a powerful weapon with some really nice augments on.) Its a complete change from the stratified game progression of the last 11 years.
When Mythics are patched they will be > delve because of the job-specific bonuses. Imo they already are >delve because of that reason, despite the delve dmg +125% spike that was like a deranged crackpipe dream.
The other point is that dmg >230 weaps from Delve are of no purpose outside Delve. You can defeat anything in Vanadiel without Delve gear, it just takes old weapons, strat and game skills. Delve weaps obviously speed up some of the tougher old game content, but they are not necessary for it. I see a lot of Delve weap ppl fighting Altepa[a] sandsweepers all day, the basic problem is the mobs that were designed for magian weapons & the occasional REM,. delve weaps 3-shot the mobs. This means normal players can not enjoy their battles, or get skillups, you see the mob just go from 100%-0%hp right infront of you and you spend the whole time running around looking for a new mob which then gets two-shotted as well. Its also harder to azure mobs when they die in 2 seconds too. It also encourages leeching, since the damage output is so high its all you can do to run from the book to the martello before your new page is 5/5.
Its not what FFXI was about. FFXI was about party dynamics, being a good player. If you had a REM it often meant you had worked hard to build it, and you were rightfully proud to own it, but you could also be a great party member with your magian99 or w/e if you played your job well and were a friendly humble kind of person. Delve is like WOW on roids, its about Power Playing not Role Playing.
SOA missions/quests are cool, some of the areas are nice, but delve was a catastrophic error by SE. Example, forget RM's for a moment, they were from many years ago, look at Meeble Burrows which even got revamped this year and is still in its infancy - but completely sabotaged by Delve. The MB gear became obsolete even before most people figured out how to get it. Thats developer seppuku like nothing I've seen, sabotaging their own projects overnight. I wanted the meeble red gaxe but nobody does MB no more coz of delve.

[svengalis]

You can one shot mobs with in Abyssea with empyreans, nothing new there.

[Afania]

I think you are overreacting. Every expansion that comes out the gear in the previous expansion becomes irrelevant. Thus time they did it with weapons to. I own 4 empyrean weapons but I'm not making a big deal about this. The only thing that concerns me is what to do with these weapons now because they are taking up inventory space. I'm actually glad they made easier to make end game weapons. Now I won't feel so bad about tossing them when new ones come out.

Do you spend 4 years building ONE of your empyrean weapon then? Also when REM was released, they were meant to stay on top, or at least relevant until server shut down. That's why they can be upgrade to lv 99. If SE wasn't planning to have them stay on top, why allow players to upgrade it? Nobody would spend 3 years building something like Mythic if they know an expansion in 2013 would trash it completely, that's the real issue there. This isn't an issue of "My gears are shit in new expansion", this is the issue of "I spent 3 years building my Mythic, I thought it's gonna be the best, but it's not anymore. If I knew it beforehand I wouldn't make such dumb choice", aka face slapped their most royal customers.

If you have a customer willing to pay multiple account, log on everyday to build their hardest to obtain item, you should please them, not face slap them.

A customer plays 20 hr a week, v.s someone play 5hr a week, obviously someone playing 20hr a week is more valuable as they're less likely to quit and often own double account.

[Demon6324236]

Every expansion that comes out the gear in the previous expansion becomes irrelevant.I think most people put weapons in a different class than gear. Relics have never been outdated till Abyssea, before Abyssea Relics were high end and took a long time, they were always at the top of the latter besides Mythics, and some specific weapons for jobs with bad relics, like BLM. What I mean to say by all of this is, while normal gear like bodies and such are outdated most of the time, Relics never were till Abyssea, Mythics never were till Abyssea, and guess what? They updated them too so we could keep them & continue to use them as we progressed. They have never outdated RM weapons and left them for dead, why should they do anything different now? RME weapons should be updated for the fact they have never been outdated before, no expansion has done it till now and gotten away with it, I highly doubt this would could get away with it, and since they already announced they will be updating them, it seems we get them updated yet again as per request.

Long story short, they do not out date RME level weapons every expansion.

[Tamoa]

When CoP was released, king abjuration gear wasn't outdated. When ToAU was released, sea torques/capes and Rajas Ring weren't outdated. When WotG was released, salvage gear wasn't outdated. When abyssea was released, the majority of the old gear was outdated, but let's face it; the level cap was being increased and anyone thinking all of their old 75 gear would stay relevant were only kidding themselves.

SE also introduced synergy augments to further keep certain older gearpieces relevant, to the point where some became best-in-slot.

So no, every expansion did NOT render old gear irrelevant.

[Dazusu]

God forbid you actually have to participate in NEW content to keep your character relevant. Why play an MMO if there's no forward progression?

[Demon6324236]

God forbid you actually have to participate in NEW content to keep your character relevant. Why play an MMO if there's no forward progression?There is forward progression through armor, and weapons are upgraded too, even if they are in the end basically the same weapon with better stats, that was fine with me, and many others, for many years now.

[Dragoy]

They have never outdated RM weapons and left them for dead, why should they do anything different now?

Well... I don't know why, really, but I'm sure you remember this...


However, RME weapons have been considered the ultimate weapons up until this point in time, but I feel that this needs to change a bit.

Sure, that doesn't exactly say they'd leave them dead, but I do think that is exactly what they had first planned on doing. =/

[Demon6324236]

Matsui came in and wanted to change the design of the game we are so used to, I know that, I am hoping from our backlash that he understands the problem with that line of thinking when it comes to this community. People who support it however, have given no good points as to why they should progress this way except 'but all of the other MMOs do it' to which I have to say, perhaps the reason this game still has people playing it after 10 years is because its not every other MMO...

[Karbuncle]

I think he had a lot of good ideas for an MMO, But he thoroughly misunderstands that most of the FFXI population plays FFXI because items have a sense of accomplishment and longevity to them. You do not get that in any other MMO, because in a months time, in other MMOs, said item is now garbage and replaced. There are players who can stand behind an MMO design like that, I personally can not.

In my opinion, FFXI had a good formula going. They'd release gear that was better, they'd release sidegrades, they acknowledged peoples efforts and tried to keep old content relevant... Adding some Best-in-slot Augments to Abjuration and Sky gear kept things like Odin, Sky, and even some ground kings still semi-relevant... Dynamis for Relics, Abyssea had Emp Armor/Weapons, Salvage for Alex... Even though these events were old they still held relevance in some way, save maybe Limbus2.0 which they kinda just dropped the ball on.

There was always a large variety of events, old and new... As opposed to now where its basically DELVE DELVE DELVE DELVE WILDSKEEPER DELVE.

FFXI had a nice blend of "Gear to chase" and "Gear thats got a long lifespan" that made me happy. I can safely tell you I've never been at a point in FFXI where i had no gear to obtain, on gear to look forward to getting... The only job that came close was my THF and even it still had gear to get. The game was fine as it was, and I promise you there would be significantly less B**ching about SoA If weapon power stopped at or slightly above Skirmish-Levels (Which were very close to 95-99 REM), and the Armor continued to upgrade exponentially as it is.

Sure there would still be some complaining but you'd not of alienated nearly all of the 99 RME crowd... But the point is, IDK why some of you joined FFXI, But i joined it because gear had longevity, gear have value, it meant something, and in the midst of the ever changing and upgrading/sidegrading gear options, RME Stood on top as a strong, permanent, Solid investment that would always provide you with the best in slot for your DD options. Sure among them one may be better than the other (Myhic POle > Relic >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Emp Pole), But the Super Weapons were always the best investment you could make in FFXI.

Yes, Endgame pretty much became REM Only, but thats mostly SE's fault for releasing content so difficult that It requires near perfect co-ordination and Gear, leaving 0 room for error, and in some cases still boiled down to f**king luck (Looking at you Legion/NNI). If SE would have released NNI in old Nyzul fashion, Climb to 100, Disc resets at 100 and you get 1 piece of armor, I promise you there would be a lot less of a "RME only" shouts for it, as you'd only need a certain level of competency, like old Nyzul, which was very casual friendly..

TL;DR I didn't keep playing FFXI because I hoped one day it would become a WoW/Koreangrinder clone, and not the good kind... So this change was unwelcome to me, especially in the weapons department. I mean, If you like it you like it, i'm simply trying to show you people theres two sides of the coin here, and just cause you can't comprehend the grand-f**king-canyon sized difference between outdating armor, and outdating REM99 weapons, doesn't mean that to a lot of us this isn't a giant c*ckslap to the face.

I see why you guys find it appealing, I personally just don't. And I've already talked with my money and Quit. That lovely Hume face you see to the left is my brothers account which will expire in some period of time... IDK when.

[detlef]

God forbid you actually have to participate in NEW content to keep your character relevant. Why play an MMO if there's no forward progression?For better or worse, FFXI was all about long and often tedious quests to build the very best weapons which you could justify if the weapons were going to stay on top forever. New gear was introduced as slight improvements or sidegrades, often being situational but optimal for that particular situation. This is what FFXI was through 4 expansions and 11 years of content. The people who liked this kind of game were loyal and continued to play.

There is nothing wrong with forward progression. We're accustomed to things being left behind here and there. But generally we have come to expect weapons to be left alone. The playerbase was taken completely by surprise when Skirmish weapons came out, but I think most people were okay with them. And then Delve. What people are upset about is the by how much the previous gold standard was left behind. You simply can't be prepared for something like that after 11 years of the game being a certain way. You'll have to forgive people for reacting negatively after being blindsided by that one.

[Peepiopi]

For better or worse, FFXI was all about long and often tedious quests to build the very best weapons which you could justify if the weapons were going to stay on top forever. New gear was introduced as slight improvements or sidegrades, often being situational but optimal for that particular situation. This is what FFXI was through 4 expansions and 11 years of content. The people who liked this kind of game were loyal and continued to play.

There is nothing wrong with forward progression. We're accustomed to things being left behind here and there. But generally we have come to expect weapons to be left alone. The playerbase was taken completely by surprise when Skirmish weapons came out, but I think most people were okay with them. And then Delve. What people are upset about is the by how much the previous gold standard was left behind. You simply can't be prepared for something like that after 11 years of the game being a certain way. You'll have to forgive people for reacting negatively after being blindsided by that one.

http://agilesutra.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/psychological-reaction-to-change.jpg

Stubborn, angry, insecurities, blame... Sounds like a lot of people here lol. Don't worry. Smart people say that you'll feel better in the future :)

[Raksha]

You'll note that stubborness anger and resistance correlate to a high level of competence.

[Karbuncle]

And moving on relates to low level of competence.

I think he accidentally just insulted himself but didn't quite catch on to that.

[Peepiopi]

You'll note that stubborness anger and resistance correlate to a high level of competence.


And moving on relates to low level of competence.

I think he accidentally just insulted himself but didn't quite catch on to that.

I think those stages in the diagram mean stubbornness and anger lead to declining competence, and acceptance leads to improving competence. In my line of work we call the diagram "The pit of dispair" lol.

The way I see it in regards to this thread is you can "let go" one of two ways. Either you can accept the changes to the game, roll with it, and learn to enjoy it, OR you could just go do something else, and commit to that instead.

Sitting and complaining, or "AFKing in Jueno until more stuff comes out" isn't exactly exhibiting competence. So agree with the diagram or not, if you're doing these things, then you're in the pit. Things will only get better once you accept things and move on.

[Demon6324236]

The way I see it in regards to this thread is you can "let go" one of two ways. Either you can accept the changes to the game, roll with it, and learn to enjoy it, OR you could just go do something else, and commit to that instead.The way I see it in regards to this game is you can "let go" one of two ways. Either you can accept the player base here does not want these kind of changes to the game, roll with it, and learn to enjoy it how it was before, OR you could just go play one of the hundred MMOs this is starting to become like, and commit to that instead.

[Peepiopi]

Either you can accept the player base here does not want these kind of changes to the game...

Maybe some players don't like things to change, but I'm not one of them. It's hardly accurate to make a general statement like "the player base here does not want..." because you don't speak for everyone. I'm having fun with the game, I'm enjoying the new expansion, and I don't mind the changes. Haven't met a single person in-game that has any complaints either :) So speak for yourself.

By the way, you missed my point. I'm not the one trying to cope with the changes, but it seems like you are. How's life in the pit?

[Demon6324236]

By the way, you missed my point.You missed mine as well it would seem.

If you want the kind of game this is becoming why the hell are you playing this? Its 11 years old, its specifically not like the MMOs coming out now days, and now they are taking that away, changing it in a massive way that you seem not to mind. If you don't mind it, cool, please, go play 1 of the other games just like that which come out every year. I play this because its not every other MMO, its different.

This is the only game I have actually found which I enjoyed playing for more than a couple of weeks or a couple of months besides Phantasy Star Universe, which is now gone, and PSO2 has not been released in NA yet. So guess what that means for me, if this game changes, adapts things like all of those other MMOs, I am left without a MMO, I not only lose the game I know and love, but I have no new home to go to. So please, tell me, why exactly should I simply sit back and accept this? Why should I allow others to reshape the game I know and love when the part being changes is the exact reason I have been enjoying this game so long? I fail to understand why I should do this, why people would want this game to change in the way it is and why if people want a game like this is becoming they have not just moved to another game which is already like this game is turning out to be. The only change this game has ever needed is SE listening to players more on some specific issues while making certain things more fair, fun, and balanced, such as NMs which have to be stun locked or tediously drawn out things, impossible drop rates like VW, and so on. If these things were fixed the game would be perfect for many people, but that is part of the problem, they don't, and now they are changing the game in such a radical way I really am finding myself hoping this game dies now. At least if it dies soon, I will have memories intact of how it once was, if it takes to long to die and they do not revert it, my memories of this game will forever be tainted with how this game has fallen from what it once was, a unique game I enjoyed.

To me, there is nothing I need to accept, accepting a problem does not make it any less of a problem in some cases, this is one of those. This is not a good change, it needs to be reversed, and if you like how its becoming, there is a ton of games around with this ideal and design which they are trying to implement, while the one they are moving away from is not common, and needs to be kept so the game is unique!

[Peepiopi]

You missed mine as well it would seem.

(edit)tl;dr: boo hoo, bunch of whining... change is bad.

No I got your point. You didn't really have one except to try to think of some [not so]witty way to say I'm the weird one for not complaining like you are, and that I should be just as pouty as you about game changes, or I should just go away. The difference between you and me is that if I'm not having fun playing a game any more, then I'll just stop playing it and do something else. You on the other hand seem to just... complain.. Then you seek validation by trying join like-minded people in a little vocal majority so you can all just... complain to each other together.

If you have any experience with other MMOs, then you'll realize that whining on the forums rarely get anywhere. If you really don't like the direction the game is going, then vote with your pocketbook, then move on! I promise you that there are other things to do than waste time with a game that you can only complain about.

On the other hand, maybe you just enjoy complaining, and ignoring reason. In which case, be my guest :) Complain until you can't do it any more, or find something better to do. Your behavior is typical. (http://agilesutra.files.wordpress.com/2011/11/psychological-reaction-to-change.jpg)

[Demon6324236]

My behavior is typical of people who complain about change, yes, but as I said, I have played other MMOs, I like none of them, I play this one because I like how it was, I would gladly quit this game today except I have friends here I rather not leave and besides that, I have no other MMO to go to because none are like this that I have ever seen or played. I can not play PSU, I can not play PSO2, I can not play FFXIV, that eliminates my choices of games I like quite a bit. There are a hundred games out there with the same kind of things they are trying to implement now, why are you not playing them instead of this one, why must this one become like one of the games I hate? Your failing to explain why this game should become like every other MMO when its going to lose the exact reason its unique in the process and end up becoming nothing more than another generic game. I have nothing against change, I have something against what kind of change we are seeing. If they made changes I did not already know I do not like, that would be one thing, but they are not making those kind of changes, I know I don't like these, because these changes are the same exact reason I hate every other MMO!

[Peepiopi]

My behavior is typical of people who complain about change, yes, but as I said, I have played other MMOs, I like none of them, I play this one because I like how it was, I would gladly quit this game today except I have friends here I rather not leave and besides that, I have no other MMO to go to because none are like this that I have ever seen or played. I can not play PSU, I can not play PSO2, I can not play FFXIV, that eliminates my choices of games I like quite a bit. There are a hundred games out there with the same kind of things they are trying to implement now, why are you not playing them instead of this one, why must this one become like one of the games I hate? Your failing to explain why this game should become like every other MMO when its going to lose the exact reason its unique in the process and end up becoming nothing more than another generic game. I have nothing against change, I have something against what kind of change we are seeing. If they made changes I did not already know I do not like, that would be one thing, but they are not making those kind of changes, I know I don't like these, because these changes are the same exact reason I hate every other MMO!

Do you know why other MMOs have certain similar elements? Money. It is a business after all. There are some game elements that are popular among gamers; and developers want to integrate those, because they attract subscribers. More subscribers means more development, and better maintenance. For example, whether you like (or even played) the game or not, WoW is the most successful MMO in history because Brack recognized that, and the today's version of WOW has improved drastically from it's debut in 2004.

Very little has changed for FFXI, even though it's practically the same age as wow, and it fell way behind because it didn't change. It has an endearing environment and great story, but it's still pretty much a graphical mud with insane grinds. That isn't that popular any more in today's gaming community, hence why they're changing.

Unlike you, I would love to see FFXI stick around for many more years, but to do that, they need to find new subscribers. You will be hardpressed to convince a developer to keep the game the way you like it, if it meant losing potential funding and profit.

[Demon6324236]

Do you know why other MMOs have certain similar elements? Money. It is a business after all. There are some game elements that are popular among gamers; and developers want to integrate those, because they attract subscribers. More subscribers means more development, and better maintenance. For example, whether you like (or even played) the game or not, WoW is the most successful MMO in history because Brack recognized that, and the today's version of WOW has improved drastically from it's debut in 2004.I know they copy WoW, but would you care to tell me, just how many of those games flop? Last I knew, almost all of the MMOs that come out today do poorly, why? Because most people see they are nothing but WoW clones, if you like WoW and its kind of content chances are you will play WoW, the reason why is because its the original, and it does it damn well, so why would you go play a game which only attempts to copy it? As you said, in your second paragraph, this game came out in the same period of time as WoW did, and while it does not have the same level of income or player amount, it has a different style of play than most, which allows it to keep its own player base who enjoy the kind of entertainment it provides, while most other games including WoW fail to provide just that.


Unlike you, I would love to see FFXI stick around for many more yearsMake no mistake, I have no wish to see FFXI get shutdown, but I also have no wish to see it continue to go bad as it is now. If they changed the game to how it was, long term goals, feeling like my work is worth it, having fun with a ton of friends, low-man content I can do with a couple friends, as well as some of their old promises and some more flexibility and listening to players a bit more, I would love this game again. For now, I just do not care about it anymore, and its death at this point would seem a blessing because then its at least done, over, and out of its misery, rather than them trying to reform it into something its not, and was never meant to be.


to do that, they need to find new subscribers.This game is eleven years old, the graphics look like a PS2 game, because it is a PS2 game. They refuse to drop support to the console which leaves many features in ruin because its impossible to upgrade it without screwing over PS2 users by not giving them the same benefits while at the same time, as well as removing the ability to play on PS2 once activating these features on your account with a Xbox 360 or PC. They also have shown no attempt at advertising this game at all in years, anywhere I have ever looked, the closest was a single add I saw for Adoulin, 1 time, ever. Tell me, how are they going to find new subscribers when they do nothing to get this game really out there for people to play while its age, graphics, and trial make the game look horrible beyond compare?


You will be hardpressed to convince a developer to keep the game the way you like it, if it meant losing potential funding and profit.They are already making FFXIV, which sounds as though it follows much the design concept of more modern MMOs while adding its own flavor to it. In which case, I would think they are losing potential profit by killing off a more unique MMO that people might play at the same time as FFXIV, or might play instead of FFXIV because FFXIV is not their style of game. If FFXIV is like how FFXI is turning out to be I may very well not like it or play it, but I would play FFXI if it were how it used to be, in which case, profit. If I like FFXIV though, why would I play FFXI? Its eleven years older, its dev team is miniscule by compare I am sure, it has many problems, and more, so if the concept for how the game works is roughly the same, why play FFXI at all? Everyone would simply upgrade to FFXIV, and this game would die. If it didn't die, they are simply creating one game, and changing another, so that they both line up in a similar format, thus giving us two games with similar designs made by the same company more than a decade apart. To me, that sounds stupid, correct me if I am wrong.

You made me think of something though in that line of thinking. The only way I could see this idea from SE being at all a good idea marketing wise is if they honestly thought by changing FFXI's style to match more with how they want FFXIV to be that it would let FFXI players ease into that so when FFXIV comes around, they want to play that too. Like I said though, they would basically be killing off one game for the success of another, when you could keep both around and unique from one another, catering to two types of players at the same time, making more money, and having happier customers.

[Duelle]

I know they copy WoW, but would you care to tell me, just how many of those games flop? Last I knew, almost all of the MMOs that come out today do poorly, why? Because most people see they are nothing but WoW clones, if you like WoW and its kind of content chances are you will play WoW, the reason why is because its the original, and it does it damn well, so why would you go play a game which only attempts to copy it? As you said, in your second paragraph, this game came out in the same period of time as WoW did, and while it does not have the same level of income or player amount, it has a different style of play than most, which allows it to keep its own player base who enjoy the kind of entertainment it provides, while most other games including WoW fail to provide just that.Erm...no. The reason the other modern MMOs failed was more due to them releasing subpar or incomplete games with broken/unbalanced/poorly-designed systems under the impression we're still in 1997 where players will stick to the game despite its flaws until the kinks are worked out (a design model that doesn't work anymore with so many MMORPGs out there on the market).

I'll spare you the litany of modern MMORPGs from the last 5 years that flopped for stupid reasons that could have been avoided if the developers had not subscribed to the above-mentioned model.


This game is eleven years old, the graphics look like a PS2 game, because it is a PS2 game. They refuse to drop support to the console which leaves many features in ruin because its impossible to upgrade it without screwing over PS2 users by not giving them the same benefits while at the same time, as well as removing the ability to play on PS2 once activating these features on your account with a Xbox 360 or PC.Even if they entirely dropped the PS2, fixing the core engine of the game would be a colossal task in itself. That's not mentioning the ton of crap that also needs to be fixed in this game.

[Demon6324236]

Erm...no. The reason the other modern MMOs failed was more due to them releasing subpar or incomplete games with broken/unbalanced/poorly-designed systems under the impression we're still in 1997 where players will stick to the game despite its flaws until the kinks are worked out (a design model that doesn't work anymore with so many MMORPGs out there on the market).

I'll spare you the litany of modern MMORPGs from the last 5 years that flopped for stupid reasons that could have been avoided if the developers had not subscribed to the above-mentioned model.More contributing factors, yes, but if a game copies off other games without bringing nothing new to the table either, it will get no where, many games seem to do just that, copy other games gameplay while messing some things up, failing to make any unique qualities which would make it different, and leave it boring.


Even if they entirely dropped the PS2, fixing the core engine of the game would be a colossal task in itself. That's not mentioning the ton of crap that also needs to be fixed in this game.Yes, but certain things are specifically limited by PS2 I would think, such as the inventory only being able to go to 80. It would take work to work around if they removed PS2, but it would be doable, instead we seem to be stuck with getting more side-inventories with 80 space rather than our real inventory going up to 100, 150, 200, and so on.

[Zumi]

The difference between WoW and FFXI is that they change WoW a lot. The game systems change a lot in between expansions. Each expansion is pretty much a sequel to the game. They adapt a lot of things put in a lot of new features the game has evolved greatly since it was first released. They adopt features that are seen in other games to improve their own game. They have over 8m subs still, thus have the money. But its on PC so it can take advantage of what newer hardware can do.

FFXI being a PS2 game, the PC version is trying to emulate the PS2 game there can not be too much advancement with the game. They will always be limited on what they can do with FFXI because at its heart it is a PS2 game and it has to work within those restraints.

I don't think there is anything wrong with FFXI in the way the item system works. My only beef with the game is the dwindling player base and the difficulty of finding people to do stuff with. This problem was solved since almost every modern MMO has adopted a dungeon/raid finder system. This was first invited by Blizzard but later copied in many games because people want to get in be able to find players easy and play the game. FFXIV has a duty finder matchmaking system where you can queue up and do whatever dungeon or raid you want. Something like that in FFXI would require such an overhaul that SE probably won't bother with it. More likely they would want you to move to FFXIV.

I know stuff like adding a dungeon finder in FFXI is pretty far off the realm of possibility due to the amount of programming it would take. However even some recruitment forums would help with find people. You can /yell for a linkshell, but then you most likely get harassed by people for spamming the /yell channel. Latly I seen people having dumb arguments and fights in /yell. Trying to find a linkshell in public game chat channels will most likly end in getting told how fail or bad at the game you are, or to shut or something similar.

[Tamoa]

Do you know why other MMOs have certain similar elements? Money. It is a business after all. There are some game elements that are popular among gamers; and developers want to integrate those, because they attract subscribers. More subscribers means more development, and better maintenance. For example, whether you like (or even played) the game or not, WoW is the most successful MMO in history because Brack recognized that, and the today's version of WOW has improved drastically from it's debut in 2004.

Very little has changed for FFXI, even though it's practically the same age as wow, and it fell way behind because it didn't change. It has an endearing environment and great story, but it's still pretty much a graphical mud with insane grinds. That isn't that popular any more in today's gaming community, hence why they're changing.

Unlike you, I would love to see FFXI stick around for many more years, but to do that, they need to find new subscribers. You will be hardpressed to convince a developer to keep the game the way you like it, if it meant losing potential funding and profit.


You know what Blizzard did different from SE? They advertised their game. Even here, in my country with barely 5 million inhabitants in total, there were ads for WoW on the tv. I can go to any store here that sells pc/console games and the employees all know of WoW, but nobody's heard of FFXI.

If you really believe the current changes to FFXI will bring in new players in any significant number, then I don't know what to tell you. But I would suggest you dedicate a day or two to reading threads (in more than one section) on this forum and also on Ffxiah, and unless you're lying to yourself you will see the number of people unhappy about the current changes greatly outnumbers the people that are happy about them. Of course, not everybody reads forums, or post on them. But I personally know several players, on different servers, that have quit (or they're still playing only to pass the time till XIV's released) because of the current state of the game. And guess what - some of them don't own a single R/E/M.

I've played this game for 7 years. I have never taken a break, the longest I've gone without playing was after the earthquake in Japan when all servers were shut down. I've frequented FFXI forums on a daily basis (mainly Ffxiah, BG, and this forum after it was created) for 6 of those years. And I can assure you that nothing SE's done before in those 6 years has had a remotely similar impact on the players.

By the way, you still haven't answered my question so I'll ask again, rewording it a little:

Would it have hurt for SE to have set plans on how to upgrade R/E/Ms to still keep them relevant, in addition to implementing Delve and Delve weapons? You talk about keeping customers happy - wouldn't that have made everybody happy - both R/E/M owners and those that never had any intentions of making one? If they'd done that, people would still be doing both versions of salvage. People would still farm currency. People would still do ADL. People would still do VWNM. People would still do all of that, and not idle in Jeuno or Adoulin, waiting for the next plasm farm shout or 5 NM+Tojil shout. How could that possibly be a bad thing?

[Duelle]

More contributing factors, yes, but if a game copies off other games without bringing nothing new to the table either, it will get no where, many games seem to do just that, copy other games gameplay while messing some things up, failing to make any unique qualities which would make it different, and leave it boring.Then you get into gritty stuff like what constitutes "new" and examples of stupidity like "calling anything with quested leveling a WoW clone".

I'm the odd man out, but I look for stuff that works, is balanced, is well thought-out and has room for growth where applicable. "Unique" is more like salad dressing: nice to have but not mandatory by any stretch of the imagination. You can slap enfeebling on a poorly-designed magic fencer and call the job "unique"; doesn't make it useful, good or workable.

People who support it however, have given no good points as to why they should progress this way except 'but all of the other MMOs do it' to which I have to say, perhaps the reason this game still has people playing it after 10 years is because its not every other MMO...The reason people stick around is because deep down the crazy amount of time wasted on this game prevents them from leaving.

I can give you a couple of reasons behind the change in design. First was to level the playing field with the new expansion, as is the case in a modern MMO. Yes, this involves obsoleting your l337 gear for the sake of keeping a leash on character progression while also creating a metric with which to balance encounters and content. This is notably the case with stuff that has procs and (in the case of FFXI) aftermaths and sphere effects.

As I mentioned, leveling the playing field means that you remove extra variables that would mess with either class/job balance or let people do/kill things in ways not intended. If you want a modern example of why you do this, Thunderfury in WoW had a damage proc that affected multiple targets; this made the weapon ideal for tanking lv60 content since the proc was affected by the hate modifiers that were native to tanks. There were cases of lv70 tanks that were still using Thunderfury instead of weapons relevant to TBC because the proc was that damn good. This forced Blizz to nerf the proc on Thunderfury because their design at the time focused on tanking niches (like paladin tanks tanking groups of mobs while warriors were more single-target tanks), and a weapon like Thunderfury rendered that design moot.

---------------------------

This being said, I'll admit the mistake was releasing Delve weapons early, though the whole design is faulty not because it's "bad" or because I don't like it. FFXI simply does not have the type of content to validate tier-based progression. You don't have multiple dungeons you can run to gear yourself up and obsolete the old expansion's gear. You don't have raids with even more powerful gear to repeat every week until you're decked out in epics. Instead you have fights with crappy RNG augments that are there solely for the sake of forcing repetition (Skirmish), a misreleased set of boss fights on a time limit (Delve) and a bunch of buyable gear with really poor job distributions (Bayld gear).

I don't know if going back to "here's a goal that'll take you two years to do if you play hardcore" is the answer.

[Peepiopi]

I don't think there is anything wrong with FFXI in the way the item system works. My only beef with the game is the dwindling player base and the difficulty of finding people to do stuff with. This problem was solved since almost every modern MMO has adopted a dungeon/raid finder system. This was first invited by Blizzard but later copied in many games because people want to get in be able to find players easy and play the game. FFXIV has a duty finder matchmaking system where you can queue up and do whatever dungeon or raid you want. Something like that in FFXI would require such an overhaul that SE probably won't bother with it. More likely they would want you to move to FFXIV.

I agree, LFG would be awesome for the game! But, I wouldn't say it's impossible for it to happen. If you remember back in Wrath of the Lich King, WoW had pretty much the same system as FFXI for group finding before it implemented LFG. SE is currently working on overhauling the entire UI for FFXI to optimize keyboard/mouse gameplay, which is a much bigger project. I could see some kind of LFG system going into FFXI. But like you said.. probably won't be for a loooong time.

@Demon.. I don't think that SE is resigning to let FFXI die out and let FFXIV be their only MMO cashcow. If that was the case, then they would not have announced the roadmap, and they wouldn't be putting the efforts into changing the game into a faster-paced and simpler "vertical" progression now. They're making efforts to get the game back into relevancy in today's MMO market, even though I think we all know that's going to be a huge uphill climb... To do that, there will need to be drastic changes. However, I can guarantee you that if they leave the game the way it has been for the last decade, the subscribership will continue to fall.

So just to reiterate, SE is going to do what is best for the company to make more money. That means they may pursue changes to appeal to the greater MMO community (including gamers new to FFXI), not just to you.

[Peepiopi]

By the way, you still haven't answered my question so I'll ask again, rewording it a little:

Would it have hurt for SE to have set plans on how to upgrade R/E/Ms to still keep them relevant, in addition to implementing Delve and Delve weapons? You talk about keeping customers happy - wouldn't that have made everybody happy - both R/E/M owners and those that never had any intentions of making one? If they'd done that, people would still be doing both versions of salvage. People would still farm currency. People would still do ADL. People would still do VWNM. People would still do all of that, and not idle in Jeuno or Adoulin, waiting for the next plasm farm shout or 5 NM+Tojil shout. How could that possibly be a bad thing?

I think SE will do what they're going to do, and I'm just going to play the game as long as I'm having fun. From a business perspective, I don't think that the "lateral" progression system was all that beneficial to the growth of the game in retrospect. Historically, the best items in the game had you going back and doing old game events like Dynamis and Salvage, when they could have focused more effort into making expansions and new game content more appealing. The unfortunate side effect is that players like you have gotten a little too attached to RME progression.

I think Tanaka had a backwards plan for the last decade, and Matsui is trying some new things to keep the game forward focused. So in short, yes. If you want my broader opinion, I think they shouldn't have raised the level cap from 90-99 until after Adoulin released, and they should have just left RMEs behind at that point. That way, more people would be focused in the new zones. That's just my 2 cents. I know you obviously feel differently.

There is an age old saying that says "You can't make everyone happy all the time". Whatever they do with the game, there will inevitably be someone here ranting just like some of the people in this thread.

[Demon6324236]

However, I can guarantee you that if they leave the game the way it has been for the last decade, the subscribership will continue to fall.Look at the rate people left in the past, then look at the rate people are leaving now, the number grew quite a bit due to these changes.


SE is going to do what is best for the company to make more money. That means they may pursue changes to appeal to the greater MMO community (including gamers new to FFXI), not just to you.Yes I understand, you are saying they are abandoning the formula that the current player base is used to, thus alienating a great deal of its player base. They are doing all of this in hopes of increasing income by making an 11 year old game that gets no advertisements and is heard of by next to no one, more appealing to the majority of gamers who play MMOs. The only problem is, almost no one knows about this game anymore except those of us who play it, or know someone who plays it. Its for this reason that changing the game will do nothing to draw in players, especially when the trial is as horrid as it is, and turns people away more than it invites them in.



I comprehend what you are saying, I just also have the misfortune of seeing how stupid it sounds at the same time. I fail to see how you think this makes sense for any rational company, to me it sounds like they are changing the game up while losing people in droves. The rate of people joining is most likely lower, since the great majority of new players to FFXI join via recommendations, something people who are leaving will not be giving out.

The chances of this game growing a new player base out of thin air is so stupidly low its not worth the time to even consider it. Maybe if they advertised, had some reason for new players to come, did something to help people catch up, not just limited time Double XP or free Atma to help people start out, but real constant things people need in order to catch up easier, things might be different. But unless they really put effort into things like this, new players will not be popping up as fast as people are leaving, so money will be lost instead!

Now sure, not everyone is mad or quitting, but a great deal of people are. How many people used to do things before that now just afk because they cant get motivated enough to go out and do some content for gear because next update or 2, it will be trash again? How many people have made RME90~99s just to watch them go to waste after recent events, after spending months on them, not for a trophy, but for the best weapon? Like I said, not everyone is mad, but if this is seriously an attempt to get more money, they are doing an absolutely horrid job at it, and their line of thinking seems severely flawed.

[Karbuncle]

However, I can guarantee you that if they leave the game the way it has been for the last decade, the subscribership will continue to fall.

Of course players would still continue to dwindle because eventually every gets bored, and there aren't many new players cause FFXI isn't advertised at all. Hell i nearly sh*t myself when i saw I think it was a CoP or ToAU Commercial some odd years ago because its the first I'd ever seen since FFXI Was released. You think the campaign would drive itself as its one of, or THE, only MMO on the market that can be played on Consoles. But no, on advertisements at all.

So yes, the population would continue to fall, But right now, Its falling faster, or at least just lost a good chunk of its remaining players. I actually suspect a world merge may happen again in the near future. The game isn't going to just die cause of RME people leaving, or even those without RME going, none of us are naive enough to believe that. But what we do see is what all MMOs become, a sinking ship. FFXI Could sink for years after this, but the point is the population is dwindling, and increasing the rate of decay is not something they want to do.

P*ssing off a sizeable portion of their playerbase because of the RME99 obsoleting? Not a good direction. People who made 90-95 RME probably are the type who did it because its good enough and they like big numbers, they'll probably be able to adapt to these changes easier, people who made 99's did it because it was the best and they could feel proud of that. Afterglows are retarded no matter how you look at em.

Regardless, unlike some folk, some of us don't need a google search and a chart to understand the psychological and sometimes physical responses to a perceived negative change. But luckily for those of us who don't rely on Google as the word of god, we can comprehend that there are several different types of change and each should be evaluated separately and not all should be taken as acceptable. There are many changes both historically and happening right now that warrant more than a "Okay, I roll over and accept" approach. While FFXI doesn't quite reach the level of IRL/Historical changes on simple grounds its a game, I think my point is clear enough for most folk... Change isn't a flat, vacuum situation that can be approached the exact same way every single time with the exact same outcome.

When a Change is bad, it would be stupid to roll-over and accept it. If you do not fight against negative change, if you don't fight for something you enjoy, thats far worse in my eyes than following a line graph that doesn't apply to every situation.

So, After this much debate I have to wander if you're arguing for the sake of arguing or if you truly simply cannot understand how not all change should be taken bent over with cupped hands and open mouth like you're accustomed(Metaphorically speaking)... But not every change should be taken with the same attitude. Some changes you can just go "F**k it" to, like we have... Like say, Twilight Scythe changes... Others, like his drastic design direction change, should not.

-------Lost half my post due to a breaker flip, trying to repost it sucks. But the point I'm trying to make I hope is clear. Change isn't something you can address the same way every time, and sometimes a negative reaction to change is the right course of action.. and also no one thinks FFXI isn't going to dwindle, but if the game is going to die, it should go out the same way it came in, a unique MMO that offered a great niche experience for loyal customers the last 11 years... not an attempt at a grinderclone.

[Tamoa]

Would it have hurt for SE to have set plans on how to upgrade R/E/Ms to still keep them relevant, in addition to implementing Delve and Delve weapons?




in short, yes.

Really? No, I mean - really??



If you want my broader opinion, I think they shouldn't have raised the level cap from 90-99 until after Adoulin released, and they should have just left RMEs behind at that point. That way, more people would be focused in the new zones.

That's the whole point though - they didn't do that, they kept R/E/Ms relevant via magian trials all the way to level 99.



There is an age old saying that says "You can't make everyone happy all the time".

But keeping R/E/Ms relevant while still adding Delve gear would have made both "sides" in this discussion happy. Why would anyone that doesn't own a R/E/M be upset that those weapons were kept relevant when they can easily get a Delve weapon? It wouldn't affect them anyway.

[Richwood]

We know many of you have been waiting with bated breath for the announcement of-which NPC was voted the most popular-NOPE! We want to know your plan for REM's and why you are not announcing anything new or having them in recent updates.

[Daemon]

We know many of you have been waiting with bated breath for the announcement of-which NPC was voted the most popular-NOPE! We want to know your plan for REM's and why you are not announcing anything new or having them in recent updates.

I would assume they are busy trying to fix SoA and make it a success first. Announcing anything without a sure answer would only cause conflicts. We know Skirmish updates is around the corner so hopefully after that DEV Team will have time to revise REM. that's my opinion.

[FaeQueenCory]

I would assume they are busy trying to fix SoA and make it a success first. Announcing anything without a sure answer would only cause conflicts. We know Skirmish updates is around the corner so hopefully after that DEV Team will have time to revise REM. that's my opinion.
I also think that they are using the adoulin gear to test the waters to see what exactly they need to add/adjust on the REMs. (specifically the massive overhaul where some things got their potency doubled and pretty much every >99 gear got massive stat boosts along every stat... and now pretty much every >99 weapon has those fake skill levels on them... so I believe that these items are all the alpha-testing for changing the REMs to fit the new content: ie make them relevant.
"measure twice, cut once" and all that.)

[saevel]

Just be happy SE hasn't updated RME's yet. You want to wait until after the nest wave of Delve content so that RME's will be on par with that rather then them being left behind.

Tanaka had one vision of this game and it was a rather static one, hence the years of horizontal upgrades. It involved pouring untold hours into a system that involved heavy RNG rewards as a way to keep you paying sub fee's. That worked back when there wasn't much competition on the MMO market. Now the market is flooded with games and companies are constantly working out new ways to attract and keep player attention. It means SE needs to alter it's experience in order to attract new players and keep the current ones from jumping ship. This is what Matsui is in the process of doing. It's a giant reset button being pushed and it's going to be really hard.

SE needs to advertise FFXI now and create a system while "new" players start at level 75~90 with all the old "prerequisite" missions completed. Stuff like Sky / Sea access and all that. Currently a new player has entirely too much "old crap" they need to wade through to play with everyone else, this makes them get bored and severely limits your new subscriptions.

[pretre]

ahh well GTA V soon if no R/E/M by then atleast I have new time drain

[Daemon]

Just be happy SE hasn't updated RME's yet. You want to wait until after the nest wave of Delve content so that RME's will be on par with that rather then them being left behind.

Tanaka had one vision of this game and it was a rather static one, hence the years of horizontal upgrades. It involved pouring untold hours into a system that involved heavy RNG rewards as a way to keep you paying sub fee's. That worked back when there wasn't much competition on the MMO market. Now the market is flooded with games and companies are constantly working out new ways to attract and keep player attention. It means SE needs to alter it's experience in order to attract new players and keep the current ones from jumping ship. This is what Matsui is in the process of doing. It's a giant reset button being pushed and it's going to be really hard.

SE needs to advertise FFXI now and create a system while "new" players start at level 75~90 with all the old "prerequisite" missions completed. Stuff like Sky / Sea access and all that. Currently a new player has entirely too much "old crap" they need to wade through to play with everyone else, this makes them get bored and severely limits your new subscriptions.

If you look at it from a negative point of view then yeah. However the way I see it, Tanaka implemented a system that allow players who are ready for REM to set a pace and accomplish earning these items.

Unlike Delve where everyone can hop on the cookie train before it crumbles, REM separated the non casuals, casuals from the serious players. Or those who were at the moment in the game able to dedicate time to such a task.

Because of that everyone focused attention based on the peogession level of the player.

Rather than make all other content irrelevant or direct everyone's attention to 1 event, you had a choice.

VW and Delve takes that away and directs everyone's attention to that and speed progressing this content is unavoidable than REM.

By the way gaming industry is losing business to smartphones, rather than buy new consoles and pay $10-$100 per game. $99 cents for a quickie is what more adults are leaning to.

I've seen kids walking on the street with iPhones as if these are toys... Sad really..

[Umichi]

Just be happy SE hasn't updated RME's yet. You want to wait until after the nest wave of Delve content so that RME's will be on par with that rather then them being left behind.

Tanaka had one vision of this game and it was a rather static one, hence the years of horizontal upgrades. It involved pouring untold hours into a system that involved heavy RNG rewards as a way to keep you paying sub fee's. That worked back when there wasn't much competition on the MMO market. Now the market is flooded with games and companies are constantly working out new ways to attract and keep player attention. It means SE needs to alter it's experience in order to attract new players and keep the current ones from jumping ship. This is what Matsui is in the process of doing. It's a giant reset button being pushed and it's going to be really hard.

SE needs to advertise FFXI now and create a system while "new" players start at level 75~90 with all the old "prerequisite" missions completed. Stuff like Sky / Sea access and all that. Currently a new player has entirely too much "old crap" they need to wade through to play with everyone else, this makes them get bored and severely limits your new subscriptions.

I disagree.. the old system is just as hard to progress on your own and with people when you dont circumvent the game by using player created tactics.. The old part of the game is still apart of the game... lack of players is probably why this older content feels like it's a hassle to do..but in all reality.. It's not and it all still involves finding other people to do the content with in order to recieve rewards.. which is what this game is about..

[Demon6324236]

circumvent the game by using player created tacticsFirstly, what other kind of tactics are there?



Secondly, what kind of tactics are you talking about even? Stun locking? The simple truth of things like that, which are the only thing I can think of you would call 'circumventing the game', is that SE made TP moves which are to overpowered to be allowed, I mean, the person who thought a TP move with Doom, Weakness, and high DMG was a good idea really needs to quit their job if they think its a fair attack. The thing is, we see more of them every time a new race exists too, I mean even now, Tojil and Muyingwa both use a move which causes Weakness, Dakuwaqa uses 2 moves which cause instant death, and Muyingwa even has a move which gives Zombie Curse. Its safe to say, all of these things are fairly overpowered, I mean, so far as I know Weakness was made to make death matter more, not to be some super enfeeble, instant Death in both conal and AoE forms are highly deadly, as death would suggest, making it impossible to survive the attack if it gets off, and making it impossible to heal someone even thought the same attack that causes the status deals a nice bit of damage, are all very overpowered. So if this is the kind of thing your talking about when people 'circumvent the game' then I wonder, how would you take on these attacks in an event you also have to kill 5 other high powered NMs and then take these down all within 45 minutes?



Also, so far as why old content seems like a hassle, its often also because the rewards, which you admit are what the game is all about, are fairly lackluster in most cases, which leaves people feeling as though its not worth the time. This is especially a problem in some areas where travel is particularly annoying or there are 10 cut-scenes before an actually involving part of what your doing.

[Demon6324236]

By the way gaming industry is losing business to smartphones, rather than buy new consoles and pay $10-$100 per game. $99 cents for a quickie is what more adults are leaning to.That's not the only reason why. Its also how long games last, few games will last you longer alone than $60s worth of smaller games will. If you buy 60 $1 games which you spend 3 hours playing in total on average, it means you would have to spend a total of 180 hours on a $60 game to get your monies worth. Some games, like CoD, Halo, or Battlefield, fill this time more than others due to multiplayer, as do MMOs, other games like Skyrim can do the same. But then you come to games like Final Fantasy XIII which you play through 1 time for 30 hours or less and beat it, never to come back, in those cases the game was literally worth $10 for the time you played it, not a worthy investment if you go by the ratio of time entertained vs money paid.

At the end of the day phone games work well because they do not use all the money to make it look shiny and pretty with super duper graphics, they make it a game, make it fun, and make money from it for a cheap price. They also can work with much smaller teams of people, and take less time to make their games, after all, its a phone game, not a full blown 3D super graphic spectacle where it costs them so much to make the game they have to charge $60 a copy to make profit rather than lose money. Its not just because people want a small game they can beat in 10 minutes, but also because most of the time those games actually give you more for your money. I mean on Xbox Live I ended up buying a few different Indie games for only $1 a piece, Breath of Death VII for instance is an old style RPG, looks basic, but is very fun, has a short story of sorts, funny characters, references to many other RPGs like FFX and such, but all in all, I would buy 60 games of its quality before I would buy 1 $60 RPG sold in stores simply because even though it does not look as good, doesn't have as good a story, or anything like that, it will entertain me more than 1/60th of a RPG sold in stores.