New weapons with higher base damage then relics

[Kojo]

These weapons we're all pissed about, they'll be useless next month.

[Hayward]

It's so fun to see people get their egos crushed when they're posed with the idea of not being the top dogs anymore. Of course, S-E will once again cater to these folks by making sure Delve yields as few rewards as possible--not to mention being as inaccessible to as many jobs as possible--to make sure these new weapons are as unattainable as these insecure folks' precious level 99 weapons are now.

How high a wall do you want S-E to erect, guys, until you're happy?

[Kojo]

It's so fun to see people get their egos crushed when they're posed with the idea of not being the top dogs anymore. Of course, S-E will once again cater to these folks by making sure Delve yields as few rewards as possible--not to mention being as inaccessible to as many jobs as possible--to make sure these new weapons are as unattainable as these insecure folks' precious level 99 weapons are now.

How high a wall do you want S-E to erect, guys, until you're happy?

Cool story, troll.

[Yinnyth]

It's so fun to see people get their egos crushed when they're posed with the idea of not being the top dogs anymore. Of course, S-E will once again cater to these folks by making sure Delve yields as few rewards as possible--not to mention being as inaccessible to as many jobs as possible--to make sure these new weapons are as unattainable as these insecure folks' precious level 99 weapons are now.

How high a wall do you want S-E to erect, guys, until you're happy?

The wall obviously isn't high enough if trolls are still getting in.

[Hayward]

You can take that attitude somewhere else. I'd have asked you for your online gil receipts if I wanted to wind you guys up. I'm just hoping some of realize that this game cannot always be about "R/M/E only" jobs getting into endgame content.

If you were looking for sympathy over your not being king of the endgamers anymore, you're in the wrong forum. Most of us are too busy trying to improve our own characters and gain some enjoyment in the process.

[Camiie]

It's not just the uber high-end people. Every weapon from AH fodder to fire-based magian has been rendered instantly obsolete. Whether it's something that fell in your lap or you slaved over for months, it's essentially crap now without warning or good reason.

[OmnysValefor]

It's not just the uber high-end people. Every weapon from AH fodder to fire-based magian has been rendered instantly obsolete. Whether it's something that fell in your lap or you slaved over for months, it's essentially crap now without warning or good reason.

This too, while there's salvation for the people who 99'd their R/M/E, it's a giant middle finger to all the AH gear and all the other quested gear. The only RME stuff safe from this, so far, is Shields, Horns, and tanking weapons. DT -11% weapons (pet astolfos, katanas/swords--for supertanking, because you won't be holding hate with that).

As someone else pointed out... this further gimps pets.

[Kojo]

What are the chances this was a massive oversight though? Look at how the armor DEF is a slight increase from what we already have. Maybe the ridiculous damage is a mistake?

[Yinnyth]

It's not just the uber high-end people. Every weapon from AH fodder to fire-based magian has been rendered instantly obsolete. Whether it's something that fell in your lap or you slaved over for months, it's essentially crap now without warning or good reason.

They did sorta the same thing with Abyssea. It outmoded a lot of stuff in the game. Because they kept adding new trials for relics/mythics and kept their power balanced with their empyrean cousins, those weapons didn't get completely replaced. And they intend to boost RMEs now so... pretty much the same thing as happened in Abyssea, just on a larger scale.

[Asymptotic]

They did sorta the same thing with Abyssea. It outmoded a lot of stuff in the game. Because they kept adding new trials for relics/mythics and kept their power balanced with their empyrean cousins, those weapons didn't get completely replaced. And they intend to boost RMEs now so... pretty much the same thing as happened in Abyssea, just on a larger scale.


Thing is it was more expected with Abyssea because we were going from 75-80-90-95-99


It would have been silly for level 90 to be a sidegrade to level 75

[Camiie]

They did sorta the same thing with Abyssea. It outmoded a lot of stuff in the game. Because they kept adding new trials for relics/mythics and kept their power balanced with their empyrean cousins, those weapons didn't get completely replaced. And they intend to boost RMEs now so... pretty much the same thing as happened in Abyssea, just on a larger scale.


Just seems like they've gone completely off the rails on this latest gear reset. This is no mere incremental increase. At least the magian stuff was somewhat gradual. All of this new stuff is completely out of left field and I'm not sure it was/is really necessary to go as far as they have. I guess they'll come up with content to prove me wrong, but that's going to have to be some crazy ass shit as someone somewhere might say.

[Yinnyth]

Thing is it was more expected with Abyssea because we were going from 75-80-90-95-99


It would have been silly for level 90 to be a sidegrade to level 75

They've mentioned they wanted this sort of thing where there is an endgame gear ladder though. They want to steer away from the older format of sidegrades for years.

If anything is coming out of left field, it's the seemingly endless disapproval from the English-speaking players of this new game direction. I'm beginning to worry that I might have to learn Japanese if I want to keep playing this game into the forseeable future because there's been a marked increase in the number of English players complaining about changes well before they're even fully realized.

[Kojo]

They've mentioned they wanted this sort of thing where there is an endgame gear ladder though. They want to steer away from the older format of sidegrades for years.

If anything is coming out of left field, it's the seemingly endless disapproval from the English-speaking players of this new game direction. I'm beginning to worry that I might have to learn Japanese if I want to keep playing this game into the forseeable future because there's been a marked increase in the number of English players complaining about changes well before they're even fully realized.

If this is a ladder, it's missing several steps.

[Metaking]

personally i think this as the same thing they did with the NNI gear what was mined in the dats at first was way crazier than what we got aka i think there just place holders atm >.>

[Kojo]

personally i think this as the same thing they did with the NNI gear what was mined in the dats at first was way crazier than what we got aka i think there just place holders atm >.>

What do you mean?

[Keyln]

It's called gear progression, people. Cry a river, build a bridge, and get over it.

[Zumi]

They did sorta the same thing with Abyssea. It outmoded a lot of stuff in the game. Because they kept adding new trials for relics/mythics and kept their power balanced with their empyrean cousins, those weapons didn't get completely replaced. And they intend to boost RMEs now so... pretty much the same thing as happened in Abyssea, just on a larger scale.

There is a big difference. Back in the abyssea era relics were upgraded at the same time empyreans came out. Empyreans got to 85, relics/mythics got to 85 in the same patch, empyreans got to lv90 relics/mythics were 90 in the same patch and so on.

Now all we got is new weapons come out with 100+ base damage over 99 r/m/e and SE says, we have an outline of something we might do to boost up lv99 R/E/M but we don't know if we have the man power to implement it or not.

[Zumi]

It's called gear progression, people. Cry a river, build a bridge, and get over it.

99 R/M/E take a large amount of real life hours to make or farm the gil needed. FFXI is unlike other MMOs like WoW, Starwars or something similar where you replace your weaopns all the time. There is a huge grind and time sink with each weapon.

SE pissing off the majority of their playerbase is not good for their company if they lose a lot of subs over it.

[Kojo]

There is a big difference. Back in the abyssea era relics were upgraded at the same time empyreans came out. Empyreans got to 85, relics/mythics got to 85 in the same patch, empyreans got to lv90 relics/mythics were 90 in the same patch and so on.

Now all we got is new weapons come out with 100+ base damage over 99 r/m/e and SE says, we have an outline of something we might do to boost up lv99 R/E/M but we don't know if we have the man power to implement it or not.

One thing wrong; Emps got 99 implemented while Relics were on hold for a few weeks.

[Yinnyth]

There is a big difference. Back in the abyssea era relics were upgraded at the same time empyreans came out. Empyreans got to 85, relics/mythics got to 85 in the same patch, empyreans got to lv90 relics/mythics were 90 in the same patch and so on.

Now all we got is new weapons come out with 100+ base damage over 99 r/m/e and SE says, we have an outline of something we might do to boost up lv99 R/E/M but we don't know if we have the man power to implement it or not.

Relics were left fairly weak in comparison to empies for a while, and still harder to obtain. It wasn't until voidwatch that they started evening out the playing field by giving empies less gain from 90-99 while being more difficult to obtain those upgrades and doing the exact opposite thing to relics and mythics (easier to obtain than empy 90-99, and bigger gains). If I'm not mistaken, Dynamis wasn't turned neo-mode until after heroes of abyssea.

That is when the playing field evened out, not during the abyssea releases. So again, the same thing is happening here: RMEs look unappealing because they require a lot of work, and that work would be better spent getting a delve weapon. Given time, SE will attempt to rework the RMEs so they still compete with these newer weapons.

[Kayvindra]

There is a big difference. Back in the abyssea era relics were upgraded at the same time empyreans came out. Empyreans got to 85, relics/mythics got to 85 in the same patch, empyreans got to lv90 relics/mythics were 90 in the same patch and so on.

Now all we got is new weapons come out with 100+ base damage over 99 r/m/e and SE says, we have an outline of something we might do to boost up lv99 R/E/M but we don't know if we have the man power to implement it or not.

My thoughts EXACTLY. "We don't know IF we can do the upgrades the way we want them and IF we'll have enough manpower to do so." This doesn't make me too hopeful.

[Asymptotic]

They've mentioned they wanted this sort of thing where there is an endgame gear ladder though. They want to steer away from the older format of sidegrades for years.

If anything is coming out of left field, it's the seemingly endless disapproval from the English-speaking players of this new game direction. I'm beginning to worry that I might have to learn Japanese if I want to keep playing this game into the forseeable future because there's been a marked increase in the number of English players complaining about changes well before they're even fully realized.

Dude - JPs complain just as much if not more than English players do

Just because you can't read it doesn't mean it doesn't happen

I spend most of my time on the OFs browsing the JP forums because the things they complain about are absolutely hilarious

[Kojo]

Dude - JPs complain just as much if not more than English players do

Just because you can't read it doesn't mean it doesn't happen

Anyone able to translate their thoughts on this? JPs will be the ones they listen to.

[Asymptotic]

If you want to know what JPs complain about in the OFs - just add a healthy dose of PS2 4ever and extreme EN-3PT-phobia to everything we complain about

For every posted opinion in the NA forums regarding content there is almost sure to be almost an exact equivalent in the JP forums (but the reverse is not true)

As I've mentioned before - they also complain regularly about the unresponsiveness of the developers so it's not unique to us

[Kojo]

If you want to know what JPs complain about in the OFs - just add a healthy dose of PS2 4ever and extreme EN-3PT-phobia to everything we complain about

For every posted opinion in the NA forums regarding content there is almost sure to be almost an exact equivalent in the JP forums (but the reverse is not true)

As I've mentioned before - they also complain regularly about the unresponsiveness of the developers so it's not unique to us

So JP are just as displeased with today's update as we are?

[Asymptotic]

So JP are just as displeased with today's update as we are?

JPs get angry with people who DAT mine

[Asymptotic]

(but the posts that mention it haven't been super enthusiastic)

[Yinnyth]

Dude - JPs complain just as much if not more than English players do

Just because you can't read it doesn't mean it doesn't happen

I spend most of my time on the OFs browsing the JP forums because the things they complain about are absolutely hilarious

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that Japanese players don't complain. I was trying to say I should learn Japanese because I'm worried about the possibility of all the English players quitting the game and then I'd have no one to play it with.

[Asymptotic]

Sorry, I did not mean to imply that Japanese players don't complain. I was trying to say I should learn Japanese because I'm worried about the possibility of all the English players quitting the game and then I'd have no one to play it with.

OH REALLY!



本当にやってくれたですね、私は今日からやめます。

"They've finally done it - as for me I quit today"

[Kojo]

JPs get angry with people who DAT mine

Yet they find out how to do stuff just as quick as we do, unless Devs announce details about things they benefit from dat miners.

[Kojo]

OH REALLY!



"They've finally done it - as for me I quit today"

Are there very many of those types of posts?

[Metaking]

What do you mean?

NNi gear was in the dats before we could get it originally mind you what we got was different than what they put in the dats at first, same could hold true for these weapons i mean as is, has anyone seen a recipe for the new ah ones if not, none of these weapons might be accessible yet, or even in there finished form for that matter

[Yinnyth]

OH REALLY!



"They've finally done it - as for me I quit today"

Guess I'll just have to invent my own language then and 18-box FFXI when everyone quits.

[Asymptotic]

This guy is classic




FFXIは終了ですね

いままで自分はなにをやってたのがわからない

オアティフール Ｄ+146 隔+96 命中+35 攻+25 ガードスキル+4 被物理ダメージ-3% Lv99～ モか

最後でこういう冗談をしてくれる開発さんに誠に感謝したいんです。

俺に引退する決意を与えた

ありがとうございます、この１０年は楽しかったです

FFXI is at its end

I didn't know what they were up to until now!

(description of hand to hand weapon)

I would like to thank the development team - who can end things with a joke like this!

I have decided to retire

Thank you for the 10 years

It was fun

[Kojo]

NNi gear was in the dats before we could get it originally mind you what we got was different than what they put in the dats at first, same could hold true for these weapons i mean as is, has anyone seen a recipe for the new ah ones if not, none of these weapons might be accessible yet, or even in there finished form for that matter

Yes, BG has recipes.

[Asymptotic]

Are there very many of those types of posts?

They are interspersed as they are here but largely the JP forum is dazed and confused as we are

[Kojo]

This guy is classic



FFXI is at its end

I didn't know what they were up to until now!

(description of hand to hand weapon)

I would like to thank the development team - who can end things with a joke like this!

I have decided to retire

Thank you for the 10 years

It was fun

Ok, I'm glad NA/EU and JP are on the same page, but that post seemed a tad tinfoil hat-ish to me.

[Kojo]

NNi gear was in the dats before we could get it originally mind you what we got was different than what they put in the dats at first, same could hold true for these weapons i mean as is, has anyone seen a recipe for the new ah ones if not, none of these weapons might be accessible yet, or even in there finished form for that matter

Was NNI gear's stats completely broken before you could access them like these are?

[Asymptotic]

Sort of - they were better than pretty much everything we had ever seen - but it was also our first full group of 99 gear sets

[Metaking]

Yes, BG has recipes.
damn you are correct wow 117 syths tho.... good luck not breaking that

[Asymptotic]

At 110 craft skill you effectively have 120 craft skill

[Vivik]

I just did what everyone else should do that's not happy with the changes being made. I voted with my wallet and cancelled my recurring payment on my account. Not what I want to do because I love this game but I feel like I am at a point where I have to.

[Alerith]

Does this mean... Ochain and Aegis have just become the two greatest Relic/Empyreans out of all the weapons in every category...?

I'm looking at the shields released in the update and...nothing I'd really give them up for...


EDIT: I know they're technically armor, but they still fall into R/E categories. If you're going to build a worthwhile Relic or Empyrean... is it now these two? >_>

[Ica]

You forgot about horn and harp.

[Alerith]

You forgot about horn and harp.

That I did.

To adjust my question, are the two instruments and two shields now the best options for R/E seekers?

[Ica]

Unless they announce what they plan on doing with existing weapons (and implement it soon), I wouldn't risk doing anything other than the shields or instruments. That's just me though.

[Alerith]

Unless they announce what they plan on doing with existing weapons (and implement it soon), I wouldn't risk doing anything other than the shields or instruments. That's just me though.

I have to agree.

Looking at the items released in the update, the shields and instruments are the only ones that hold any sort of weight. Mandau and Ragnarok took a plunge and they were already the top tier you could get in that DPS department.

As it stands, the functions of the instruments and shields (High -MDT%, ~100% block rate, +Songs, etc.) are still the best you can ask for in regards to that slot/job. Weapons on the other hand... What's going to do more?

Chant du Cygne with Almace 99?
or
Vorpal Blade with DMG:130, STR+13, Accuracy+25, Attack+25, and "Double Attack"+3%?

And single-handed sword has been lucky with crit hit WS's. What about Greatsword? Ragnarok 99 with Resolution used to make me sploosh myself. Now there's one with DMG:247, STR+8, Accuracy+41, and Attack+31?

(And let's be honest...you don't make a Ragnarok for the Critical Hit V...)

What the actual hell?

[Zumi]

Seems to have been a shift in game philosophy. They use to keep armor and weapons relevant for long periods of time. Now its just everything now before delve is pretty irrelevant.

They just released skirmish not more then a month ago. Now with these delve weapons who's going to even bother with skermish. Not many people are going to go back and do the old stuff when the new stuff has 100 more base damage then it.

[DaBackpack]

We still know next-to-nothing about how difficult these new weapons will be to obtain, the requisite quests, and any further circumstances involving the use of these weapons. It's a stretch to say that all R/M/E besides shield/instrument are useless, especially since SE explicitly told us that they would be receiving enhancements in the (hopefully near) future.

Who knows, maybe the new weapons will take as long as Relics? And maybe Relics will be given comparable damage ratings? Nobody knows.

EDIT: That said... every other weapon in the game is screwed, not to mention the majority of the in-game economy is forever changed...

[Raksha]

They want you to get Skirmish weapons to start doing Delve. In their eyes skirmish gear isnt obsolete, it's just a stepping stone.

The high prices for simulacra parts are just players being players.

[Zumi]

Skirmish gear is pretty much on par with the relics and empyrean everyone already has, if you look around FFXI you be hard to anyone who doesn't have some type of relic or empyrean.

[Sparthos]

They want you to get Skirmish weapons to start doing Delve. In their eyes skirmish gear isnt obsolete, it's just a stepping stone.

The high prices for simulacra parts are just players being players.

High prices are dictated by the stupidly low % on getting parts. Soul Pyres are beyond stupid and encourage 3rd pt tools more than gold boxes in Abyssea did. Pyre wants you to open from inside a wall for a Skirmish part? OH WELL.

[Keyln]

99 R/M/E take a large amount of real life hours to make or farm the gil needed. FFXI is unlike other MMOs like WoW, Starwars or something similar where you replace your weaopns all the time. There is a huge grind and time sink with each weapon.

SE pissing off the majority of their playerbase is not good for their company if they lose a lot of subs over it.

It's not just other MMO's. It's the natural way of things in a progressive game. No matter how powerful your armor and/or weapon, in a game that's progressing online or not, there will always be something more powerful. This is especially true in an online context.

As I said before, the best thing that other players can do is cry a river, build a bridge, and get over it.

[Vivik]

We still know next-to-nothing about how difficult these new weapons will be to obtain, the requisite quests, and any further circumstances involving the use of these weapons. It's a stretch to say that all R/M/E besides shield/instrument are useless, especially since SE explicitly told us that they would be receiving enhancements in the (hopefully near) future.

Who knows, maybe the new weapons will take as long as Relics? And maybe Relics will be given comparable damage ratings? Nobody knows.

EDIT: That said... every other weapon in the game is screwed, not to mention the majority of the in-game economy is forever changed...

But we do know where they come from. Half of the new weapons are craftable and recipes already known. The NQs alone rape every other weapon previously in the game.

[Alerith]

It's not just other MMO's. It's the natural way of things in a progressive game. No matter how powerful your armor and/or weapon, in a game that's progressing online or not, there will always be something more powerful. This is especially true in an online context.

As I said before, the best thing that other players can do is cry a river, build a bridge, and get over it.

Except Relic/Mythic/Empyrean weapons are exceptions to the rule. Trials have made it so that the best weapons in the game, that take time and effort, can stay the best weapons in the game. Ultimate weapons that can be properly upgraded to keep up with the flow of the game's progression nullifies "the natural way of things" in respect to those categories.

SE has already implemented a system to make sure those hard-earned weapons stay at the top. Now, all of a sudden they release crafted weapons that destroy every other weapon of it's type in the game? That seems a bit silly.

I'm also curious where this "R/M/E can't be on top forever" mentality comes from. Why shouldn't they be? Are they not the ultimate weapons of their type? Just because they came out years ago means they must become crap? Sounds like a lot of butthurt to me.

[JiltedValkyrie]

If these new 'ultimate' weapons require a relic to finish for some reason, then clearly getting a relic wasn't a waste. :P

I, as a Mandau owner, do not care... so long as I can get my hands on that shiney new 108 DMG dagger.

[bryangelos]

Well i just canceled my account and if they continue to go down this path, i will not return.

And FYI SE

I have been playing since 2005 and have a 99 aegis, 99 masa, 90 ochain, 90 almace, 85 kannagi, 85 twashtar and i have two accounts. So you lost a long term player paying for 2 accounts.

[Tamoa]

I'm sad because I have lost the drive to continue playing this game. With one brushstroke (figuratively speaking) SE has made pretty much every event but Delve 100% irrelevant, they've made the time and effort my friends and I put into our own and each other's R/E/M weapons a complete waste, and they've quite possibly completely f**ked up the economy.

I haven't cancelled my account though - yet.

[Ica]

It's not just other MMO's. It's the natural way of things in a progressive game. No matter how powerful your armor and/or weapon, in a game that's progressing online or not, there will always be something more powerful. This is especially true in an online context.

The problem is that SE doesn't usually do it this way. They've never really had a "next update destroys all the gear you have now" type attitude. Now all of a sudden they are shitting all over the weapons that people have had for years, weapons they spent a lot of gil on and put their hard work into.

[JiltedValkyrie]

To be fair... there's really no reason to get all tight just yet, as we have no idea how these weapons are truly obtained. They were found illegitimately by DAT mining, and everybody is upset. There could be any number of reasons for the information on the weapons, including they only work in Delve.

[Demon6324236]

To be fair... there's really no reason to get all tight just yet, as we have no idea how these weapons are truly obtained. They were found illegitimately by DAT mining, and everybody is upset. There could be any number of reasons for the information on the weapons, including they only work in Delve.Except the crafted ones, like the GS which trumps all other GSs and is crafted.

[SpankWustler]

The catch for these new weapons is pretty simple:

The monsters fought to obtain them or the materials to make them are the hardest things in the universe. They rage after roughly 20 minutes and they have too much HP to easily kill or almost kill before 20 minutes has passed.

Although, people have gotten results from enfeebling the Scorpion and using certain types of damage on the Matamata at certain times that indicate each fight may have a unique gimmick. The Jagil's 2000+ damage en-spells are currently so ridiculously ridiculous that there's probably some trick there as well.

[Elexia]

Well i just canceled my account and if they continue to go down this path, i will not return.

And FYI SE

I have been playing since 2005 and have a 99 aegis, 99 masa, 90 ochain, 90 almace, 85 kannagi, 85 twashtar and i have two accounts. So you lost a long term player paying for 2 accounts.

That is quite unfortunate that you've spent so much time on pointless grinds. In SE's eyes, it's time to start moving people to bigger and better things. Relics were kings for well over 6 years of XI's life, then come Mythics then eventually Empyreans. No other MMO keeps 1 set of weapons or armor the top tier for numerous years.

And no, you can't convince me that collecting 1500 metal plates for example was supposed to be a challenge or collecting riftdross/cinder was etc etc, none of the weapons excluding Mythics were actually "hard work". So in reality, the barrier of entry for this content is actually much more harder than gaining a relic/empyrean is.

Not gonna lie, the ragequit is pretty funny, but then again I've played more MMOs than just FFXI so maybe I just understand this is the natural order of things. It sucks your hours upon hours of wasted time on nothing is outdone, but tell me, do you see everyone and their mother with it? Why not just...get one yourself and not cry about it? You chose to get a R/E/M to be "the best" did you not? Why not continue that trend?

I mean, let's be real here:

Empyrean Step 1:
Slaughter endless amount of NMs usually 3-8 times, with said NMs having the possibility of spawning between 1-24+ hours.
-Why is this necessary? Shouldn't 1 kill be enough? Why NMs that can lotto pop between 1 hour to up to 3 days?

Empyrean Step 2:
Slaughter VNMs.
-This is NP, but why if your crystal upgrade? Then you need to farm another tier 2 crystal which can take days if you're unlucky.

Empyrean Step 3:
Fetch time, bitches!
-Why do I need to collect 50 helmets? Nevermind the fact this monster can drop 2 helmets when he's clearly only wearing one, but why do I need 50 of them? Then I need to collect 75 fangs of a giant sandworm, why is it, despite the 20 or teeth clearly present in its mouth that it only drops 1-2? Let's not get into the fact that these things are somehow reviving endlessly to begin with.

Empyrean Stage 4:
Fetch time, deux bitches!
-Why do I need to collect 1500 metal plates? Or any other silly item needed? Why couldn't I do something akin to FFXIV where I'd have to slaughter something challenging (even if its just at first.)

Now, if we look at just the first bit of empyrean, what part of that is challenging or hard work? We're not even going to touch on Relics because Relics is nothing but money farming for 99% of it, something that isn't hard at all.

I hate to say it, I really really do hate to say it, but FFXIV's relic quest was much more challenging than getting a relic or empyrean in this game. The only hard weapon line is Mythic, and that was at 75 cap. What do these weapons have in common?

1. Item Fetching that's pointless.
2. Artificial difficulty in terms of lockout timers and low drop rates.
3. Busy work.

It's time to move on and SE sees this.

[Afania]

I hate to say it, I really really do hate to say it, but FFXIV's relic quest was much more challenging than getting a relic or empyrean in this game. The only hard weapon line is Mythic, and that was at 75 cap. What do these weapons have in common?

1. Item Fetching that's pointless.
2. Artificial difficulty in terms of lockout timers and low drop rates.
3. Busy work.

It's time to move on and SE sees this.

What's the point to compare FFXIV's relic with FFXI R/E/M rage? FFXIV's relic was still the best when server shuted down, so your effort wasn't wasted yet if you get one.

And even if FFXIV release new legendary weapon in the future, considering how many ppl has 7/7 relic in 14 and only spent a few weeks to get it, it's not worth crying over either.

Avg player (2.5 a day of playtime everyday, no mules nor high lv craft)need 3+ months to finish a lv 95 relic, longer if you don't play everyday or if you 99 it. A player only play on the weekend needs nearly 1 year to finish a lv 95 relic. Mythic/lv 99 empy takes even longer than that.

So basically, you sacrifice a lot of life quality to get it, unlike FFXIV or other MMORPG, you probably don't have human emotion/sympathy anymore if you don't feel butt hurt after years of grinding for a weapon only to see it got ass kicked by another AH weapon in new expansion. Crying over a weapon takes weeks or 1~2 months to get, is different from crying over a weapon takes YEARS to get.


I think it's completely legit for lv 85 or 90 empy to be beaten by AH/new content weapons. But I fail to see why you wouldn't butthurt if 99 R/E/M got outdated, unless you have all the time/money in the world and shit out 99 R/E/M with little to no effort.

[SpankWustler]

1. Item Fetching that's pointless.
2. Artificial difficulty in terms of lockout timers and low drop rates.
3. Busy work.

Based on the drop pools of everything killed so far, we're looking at low drop rates considering these are 18 man fights. As a result, we're looking at a lot of item-fetching and busy work to accrue the points needed to just buy potential drops.

Which really just means that we're still playing an MMORPG, I guess.

[Asymptotic]

The Jagil's 2000+ damage en-spells are currently so ridiculously ridiculous that there's probably some trick there as well.

They seem to increase over time perhaps faster when it absorbs elemental magic
Just keep the mob on your Aegis PLD!

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also defeating one of the field NMs in the zone gives you access to buying the items dropped buy all the field NMs in that zone from the NPC for plasm

They range from 8k-20k plasm and we got 1500 plasm or so running around like derps kiling NQ mobs inside of Delve while kiting a NM that tried to kill us (NQ mobs respawn REALLY FAST and drop 50 plasm)

You can also get plasm for trading shards that you get from NQ mobs in the field or Reive rewards

[MarkovChain]

Delve looks like shit so far. Everything points towards 18 man setups which shows that they didn't even bother reading their own census on the subject. The augmentable gear from delve is pure garbage. The augments seem to be acc, att or evasion. They cannot beat most of the abyssea/nyzul/salvage gearsets that have double attack or job specific stats.

Generally speaking the expansion is utter failure :


Doing imprimature is useless (who needs exp ?)
Doing reives us useless ( skirmish weapons are better than the WK reives loot)
Skirmish entry items are excessingly hard [read : time consuming or costly] to obtain, you don't control anything and if you want the weapon you need to spend well over the price of a relic to get it.
Delve system requires too many people to kill the NMs under 20 min, it's completely retarded, not willing to do VW bullshit again. The augmentable gear are garbage as expected.


The only interesting part are the upgraded WK reives weapons, but from the look on ghasty stones+2 in delve, I expect them to be retarded to obtain. Some weapons are craftable I hear. Probably level 1120 +, tier I ? Okay... For people not used to crafting I'll explain the problem a bit :

- 105+ skillup carfting recipes use mats that come from VW or Legion that noone does anymore for months.
- they just did a pathetic move by allowing augments on NQ abjurations, but it will not change the fact the abj gear is mostly gimp, that people will not bother farming 1% drop rate abjuration in 18 man alliance VW fights because, well, VW is over.
- so basically fail.

[MarkovChain]

They range from 8k-20k plasm and we got 1500 plasm or so running around like derps kiling NQ mobs inside of Delve while kiting a NM that tried to kill us (NQ mobs respawn REALLY FAST and drop 50 plasm)


You suggestion is about as retarded as farming ghasty stones +2 through obsidian fragments farming as skirmish mobs drop 1 to 5 fragment while you need 10k to be not gimp. So you need to kill 2000 mobs in an ally. I see.

[Demon6324236]

You suggestion is about as retarded as farming ghasty stones +2 through obsidian fragments farming as skirmish mobs drop 1 to 5 fragment while you need 10k to be not gimp. So you need to kill 2000 mobs in an ally. I see.Actually if its 50 Plasm per kill thats 160 kills for 8,000 Plasm, and 400 kills for 20,000 Plasm, so if those are the cheapest and most expensive, then its not really all that bad, even the people who can not kill the NMs can get stuff if they can hold the NM long enough for people to kill the small fry, just have to do it enough times. It sounds boring but with how a lot of the gear is... I have to say, I would definitely go for it, even if it took a while to get the sword trumps my Excalibur in every way possible, so I can not say I would not do it. I am sure the same goes for most other jobs, including MNK, where your H2H is insane, nearly triple the DMG of the Relic without much loss for other stats.

[Kojo]

The Jagil's 2000+ damage en-spells are currently so ridiculously ridiculous that there's probably some trick there as well.

1800 dmg if you're a fully buffed RUN. :D

[Asymptotic]

You only need to kill 160 random mobs inside of Delve to get the base items from Delve - obviously this is not a reasonable way to farm the bosses but it does give people an option to get something from delve who probably won'y be killing the mega-bosses anyway

We got 1500 or so in ~15minutes of being inside and the low tier NMs drop 500 apparently

2-4k points per delve when it can be spammed ad infinitum where items cost 8k-20k to buy isn't out of reach

I'm honestly not even to the point of worrying about +2 auments on Delve stuff - you need to calm down and pull your head out of your colon

[MarkovChain]

It's almost as if you think you'll get the high damage weapons this way ? Nah, the plasm are used for buying the gear (which mostly sucks). I can take the bet with you right now that the high D weapons are not yet in the game and will come from the final bosses which will be only killage though PD zergs awsome strtegies.

I'd like to point out that SE promised to reduced the damage from AOE tp moves from mobs. Look what they did with the lower tier delve mobs lol and more importantly look at what they did with WK reives NMs.

[Luvbunny]

Well, I guess instead of boiling with rage after seeing this update... you can all do the following:
1. Ignore it, you can't access it so easily anyway, go back doing what you usually do, grinding as usual.
2. Try the new contents, nerd rage, go at it again, and nerd rage again, proceed to next step
3. Complaint at the forum, being ignored as usual, nerd rage and finally unsub
4. Come back in a few months after a few more updates.
5. Move on to other things, and get out of your dungeon and meet real people.

:P

[Asymptotic]

Actually if its 50 Plasm per kill thats 160 kills for 8,000 Plasm, and 400 kills for 20,000 Plasm, so if those are the cheapest and most expensive, then its not really all that bad, even the people who can not kill the NMs can get stuff if they can hold the NM long enough for people to kill the small fry, just have to do it enough times. It sounds boring but with how a lot of the gear is... I have to say, I would definitely go for it, even if it took a while to get the sword trumps my Excalibur in every way possible, so I can not say I would not do it. I am sure the same goes for most other jobs, including MNK, where your H2H is insane, nearly triple the DMG of the Relic without much loss for other stats.

He's talking about the +2 augment items which are 100k
There's a lot of nice stuff available in the 8-20k range but pchan doesn't have them yet so they suck and/or don't exist

[Asymptotic]

It's almost as if you think you'll get the high damage weapons this way ? Nah, the plasm are used for buying the gear (which mostly sucks). I can take the bet with you right now that the high D weapons are not yet in the game and will come from the final bosses which will be only killage though PD zergs awsome strtegies.

I'd like to point out that SE promised to reduced the damage from AOE tp moves from mobs. Look what they did with the lower tier delve mobs lol and more importantly look at what they did with WK reives NMs.

I never said anything about the high D weapons but I know better than to think you'll argue with what people actually say

[MarkovChain]

Nah they suck. Please have a WAR or a DRK show me a TP set or a WS set that they would use with the new high damage weapons (and consequently not with relic or empy WS) consisting of the new augmentable gear. I can tell you already that the augmentable monk gear is crap, because the augments can only be acc, att or eva (apparently). Those type of gear systematically exlude TP gear due to the lack of multi attack rates, so they can only be considered for a WS use. So for monk it's shijin, and as far a dex goes all those gear are inferior to existing options. This totally reminds me of VW gear. WHat people need on WS gear is the stats from their 100% stat mod, not attack or acc. I mean, they put MND and INT in monk head gear ><.

[Asymptotic]

I'm sorry I forgot WAR and DRK were the only jobs in the game

[Kojo]

Let me make a point here, if this was... Say the November or December update, I'd be looking at Senbaak Nagan as I'm reaching sor my jar of Coalition Grease....if you know what I mean. But the fact that this is an update a month or less after normal, easy mode weapons were released that are a threat to Relics and now THEY are obsolete, I don't have much motivation at the moment.

Why get a Senbaak when it'll most likely be outdated at the end of May?

[Aequis]

I'm sad because I have lost the drive to continue playing this game. With one brushstroke (figuratively speaking) SE has made pretty much every event but Delve 100% irrelevant, they've made the time and effort my friends and I put into our own and each other's R/E/M weapons a complete waste, and they've quite possibly completely f**ked up the economy.

This is the real issue for me. Partner and I logged on after maintenance last night and we just asked each other, "So what do we do now?" We were working on my Ryunohige and he was about to start another relic, but those options seem somewhat pointless now. Granted the polearm doesn't have a crafted version (why is this?) but to expend all that effort...I don't have it in me nor do I expect the same from him.

Yesterday's update has completely shifted the goalposts, so to speak. All previous gear targets have been rendered uneconomical for most people looking to do their best in their chosen jobs. Dynamis has been dealt a colossal blow in one single day and I'm not sure it will recover. Sure, it was the go-to route for easy money and we could have guessed it'd be challenged at some point, but not like this. I've seen currency prices fall overnight and I've had trouble selling it this past week anyway. Looks like it won't shift at all now.

Salvage is looking pretty unprofitable right now. A lot of the +1 pieces are sidegrades anyway and now some of them just aren't worth the effort. Alexandrite supply will dry up and possibly collapse, so there goes progress for anyone currently working on a Mythic, unless we want to farm the 30,000 pieces ourselves (it's not happening). Good time to start reducing the alexandrite requirement, SE? Sure, you'll annoy current Mythic holders but you can't honestly expect people to commit to such an undertaking when they can buy something better than a Mythic on the auction house.

I have a few guesses as to why they have done such sweeping and drastic changes, but it still points at a complete lack of understanding of their game to me. I've felt this to be the case for several years now and they've done nothing to assuage my doubts.

The one reason that stands out is that they want to eliminate the heavy leaning on money in the game right now. People just have too much gil and that cashflow isn't to SE's liking, so they're forcibly shifting us over to a return to the "golden years". Rare/ex, low percentage drop rate, alliance and linkshell-based content that more suits their vision of their FFXI. Sadly, that doesn't exist and we as players are stuck in the middle; left to deal with their ideallistic goal whilst we struggle against Voidwatch drop rates, increasingly useless relics/Mythics/Empyrians, content that is left untouched, empty zones and the deadening torpor of "random luck = reward" with no place for skill or dedication.

Vana'diel is looking dire right now. What's more, there's nothing we can do about it. Talk about shooting themselves in the foot as a company. Good work, Square Enix. Good work.

[hiko]

The Jagil's 2000+ damage en-spells are currently so ridiculously ridiculous that there's probably some trick there as well.

people asked mob that deal magic melee dmg for RUN to have some use, here is SE answer!!

people are worried because craftable weapon destroy everything? don't worry about anybody getting it, main synth math only drop from fracture BOSS, need some other rare synth (like meeble boss drop)


I think the step is too big, totally destroy dmg balance (/goodbye caster/pet), make the enmity fix useless (mele with new weapons will cap as fast as before change) and it come too soon (most people haven't got a chance to enter skirmish yet )

[Demon6324236]

I mean, they put MND and INT in monk head gear ><.CHI BLAST BUILDS GO!!!!!


No really though, I think its to early to speak for sure if the gear is worthless, some pieces are sure to be good for some jobs if nothing else, if we can only have a single augment then it will suck from that standpoint, but I thought it looked like you could get multiple upgrades on it past a single path. Then again, I admit, due to the fact I have not done either of the Pre-Reqs(because the swords were not better than Excalibur, and I didn't care much about the other gear) I never paid attention really, so if I'm wrong, feel free to correct me. On the other hand, I do think they look kinda bleh to start with, then again, I mainly looked at RDM's gear like normal and hated almost every bit of it.

[Kojo]

people asked mob that deal magic melee dmg for RUN to have some use, here is SE answer!!

people are worried because craftable weapon destroy everything? don't worry about anybody getting it, main synth math only drop from fracture BOSS, need some other rare synth (like meeble boss drop)


I think the step is too big, totally destroy dmg balance (/goodbye caster/pet), make the enmity fix useless (mele with new weapons will cap as fast as before change) and it come too soon (most people haven't got a chance to enter skirmish yet )

RUN has no use on that, even with yesturday's buff (and Liement nerf), RUN still can't take moderate physical nor moderate to heavy magic damage. I'm more depressed about RUN than I am the weapons.

[Asymptotic]

We had a RUN when we killed the Jagil but I think my Automaton was more useful

[Kojo]

We had a RUN when we killed the Jagil but I think my Automaton was more useful

With 3x Sulpor and Barwater up, I get 249 Water resist, Qoofim's added effect was still doing 50~ damage. If all that didn't completely negate the added effect, RUN is not yet ready to tank.

[Asymptotic]

The Jagil constantly switches elements - It wouldn't be easy for a RUN to keep up with it

Aegis 4eva

[MarkovChain]

I don't think enspells are effected by magic evasion. Anyway, I forgot to add the failures of GEO and RUN into the expansion. But I think everyone forgot about those 1 day after the VU ?

[Kojo]

The Jagil constantly switches elements - It wouldn't be easy for a RUN to keep up with it

Aegis 4eva

Then that would require several different runes which only give 54 resist. Not good enough.

[Afania]

This is the real issue for me. Partner and I logged on after maintenance last night and we just asked each other, "So what do we do now?" We were working on my Ryunohige and he was about to start another relic, but those options seem somewhat pointless now. Granted the polearm doesn't have a crafted version (why is this?) but to expend all that effort...I don't have it in me nor do I expect the same from him.

Yesterday's update has completely shifted the goalposts, so to speak. All previous gear targets have been rendered uneconomical for most people looking to do their best in their chosen jobs. Dynamis has been dealt a colossal blow in one single day and I'm not sure it will recover. Sure, it was the go-to route for easy money and we could have guessed it'd be challenged at some point, but not like this. I've seen currency prices fall overnight and I've had trouble selling it this past week anyway. Looks like it won't shift at all now.

Salvage is looking pretty unprofitable right now. A lot of the +1 pieces are sidegrades anyway and now some of them just aren't worth the effort. Alexandrite supply will dry up and possibly collapse, so there goes progress for anyone currently working on a Mythic, unless we want to farm the 30,000 pieces ourselves (it's not happening). Good time to start reducing the alexandrite requirement, SE? Sure, you'll annoy current Mythic holders but you can't honestly expect people to commit to such an undertaking when they can buy something better than a Mythic on the auction house.


Seriously, that's one major butt hurt reason that you just can't get over with "Ohh, just go farm new weapon in new content, and get over it". Even if players do go farm new weapon anyways, most probably won't get over it.

I've been working for a Mythic(starting from scratch) since 2009, and planned to finish in 5 years. I farm dynamis about 3 times a week because that's the most I can spent in FFXI per week. I'm hoping after it's done it's going to be the best weapon in game that only have a few ppl across the server has, because that's how the game was when I started the project in 2009...ppl spent 4 years on relic to get the best weapon. And that's the real reason why I'm willing to spend that many years+majority of my free time on FFXI. If Mythic is completely useless, I wouldn't bother to invest YEARS of time that I could be spent on other games/rl job to get a pixel item.

I wouldn't give a shit about R/E/M being replaced if Mythic is obtainable in 1 month by avg players. In fact I don't give a shit if my lv 85 empy is replaced. But if you want players to spend years on getting a pixel item in video game, you better make it worthwhile.

I think the last thing SE shouldn't do, is to lower the difficulty to obtain them. If R/E/M is shit, then the only value is the rare-ness of it. If they're going to make it easy to obtain, then it lost the only remaining value in this game. However, I do believe they should make alex farmable solo, it just takes longer. Maybe make alex drop rate 1/3 but soloable? At least whoever want to finish Mythic still has a mean to finish it with dedication.

And tbh, if SE make Mythic another 1 month grind replaceable weapon after update, I probably won't stay in FFXI this long to begin with, like every other MMO I've played. A super rare awesome weapon that takes years to build, and only a few person have one across all servers, is what makes this game interesting, IMO.

[Asymptotic]

Then that would require several different runes which only give 54 resist. Not good enough.


It does switch in a predictable order at least

[SpankWustler]

We had a RUN when we killed the Jagil but I think my Automaton was more useful

To the automaton's credit...

Nutcracker had trained for years to crush the crotch and/or obliterate the ovaries of each and every monster in Vana'diel. Not even some weird thing that fish have called a "cloaca" could stem his robotic rage towards reproductive bits.

[Kojo]

I was looking forward to yesterday's update in hopes I'd had RUN emp or AF or something to farm up, maybe RUN merits, maybe even a RUN mythic WS, instead, all we got was rage, annoyance, and a deep depression. My pants are on, SE, you are seriosly not tickling my fancy at this point.

Jimmies Status
[ ] - Unrustled
[x] - Rustled

[Asymptotic]

I was looking forward to yesterday's update in hopes I'd had RUN emp or AF or something to farm up, maybe RUN merits, maybe even a RUN mythic WS, instead, all we got was rage, annoyance, and a deep depression. My pants are on, SE, you are seriosly not tickling my fancy at this point.

Jimmies Status
[ ] - Unrustled
[x] - Rustled

That was a pretty silly thing to expect

[Kojo]

That was a pretty silly thing to expect

Well, I also expected to be able to use a /sillywalk emote.

[Asymptotic]

Well, I also expected to be able to use a /sillywalk emote.

Was more likely to happen than GEO + RUN AF this update

[Kojo]

Was more likely to happen than GEO + RUN AF this update

I can dream.

[SNK]

I'm sorry I forgot MNK was the only job in the game

~Fixed that for you.

[Sparthos]

Seriously, that's one major butt hurt reason that you just can't get over with "Ohh, just go farm new weapon in new content, and get over it". Even if players do go farm new weapon anyways, most probably won't get over it.

I've been working for a Mythic(starting from scratch) since 2009, and planned to finish in 5 years. I farm dynamis about 3 times a week because that's the most I can spent in FFXI per week. I'm hoping after it's done it's going to be the best weapon in game that only have a few ppl across the server has, because that's how the game was when I started the project in 2009...ppl spent 4 years on relic to get the best weapon. And that's the real reason why I'm willing to spend that many years+majority of my free time on FFXI. If Mythic is completely useless, I wouldn't bother to invest YEARS of time that I could be spent on other games/rl job to get a pixel item.

I wouldn't give a shit about R/E/M being replaced if Mythic is obtainable in 1 month by avg players. In fact I don't give a shit if my lv 85 empy is replaced. But if you want players to spend years on getting a pixel item in video game, you better make it worthwhile.

I think the last thing SE shouldn't do, is to lower the difficulty to obtain them. If R/E/M is shit, then the only value is the rare-ness of it. If they're going to make it easy to obtain, then it lost the only remaining value in this game. However, I do believe they should make alex farmable solo, it just takes longer. Maybe make alex drop rate 1/3 but soloable? At least whoever want to finish Mythic still has a mean to finish it with dedication.

And tbh, if SE make Mythic another 1 month grind replaceable weapon after update, I probably won't stay in FFXI this long to begin with, like every other MMO I've played. A super rare awesome weapon that takes years to build, and only a few person have one across all servers, is what makes this game interesting, IMO.

You realize this entire "reset" is designed to move away from Tanakas 3 year grindhouse, yes?

Fact is, the game needed a reset button because when you NEED an R/M/E to compete at the content then something isn't right. SoA puts everyone on an even footing for the inevitable R/M/E buff but as per the usual people are too busy complaining a la Abyssea about how my EBODY IS RUINZORED.

Seriously people, since Abyssea the games paradigm has shifted. Quit worrying about being immortalized through ultimate weapons and enjoy the content.

[Oakrest]

no soner or later people with relics need to realis they cant always have the best weapon in the game

This is the saddest most ironic message I've ever read on these forums. Any body who hit the like button on your post is ignorant and/or jealous. Don't you think if anybody in FFXI is going to get the new weapons, it's people who obtained a Relic/M/E? These are the players who always obtained the best-of-the-best, why would that change now?

The reason R/M/E holders aren't as much disappointed that their weapon is replaced, but that they have to do the work to obtain them and disband a legacy carried on for 10 years.

What a sad post.

[Kojo]

This is the saddest most ironic message I've ever read on these forums. Any body who hit the like button on your post is ignorant and/or jealous. Don't you think if anybody in FFXI is going to get the new weapons, it's people who obtained a Relic/M/E? These are the players who always obtained the best-of-the-best, why would that change now?

The reason R/M/E holders aren't as much disappointed that their weapon is replaced, but that they have to do the work to obtain them and disband a legacy carried on for 10 years.

What a sad post.

There's that post that makes me lol again!! Tee-hee-hee.

Honestly, I think less people would be table flipping and rage quitting if upgraded R/M/E were in the dats, even if unobtainable. Gives us something solid to look forward to, like "my relic may be obsolete for now, but I see and am happy with what it can one day be."

[Soidisant]

The Jagil's 2000+ damage en-spells are currently so ridiculously ridiculous that there's probably some trick there as well.

Blink tank it and make sure you don't get hit!

[Teraniku]

*sigh* I just love the drama here. The wailing and Gnashing of teeth.

Anyway here's some advice:

Improvise, Adapt, overcome, or quit.

[Aequis]

Fact is, the game needed a reset button because when you NEED an R/M/E to compete at the content then something isn't right. SoA puts everyone on an even footing for the inevitable R/M/E buff but as per the usual people are too busy complaining a la Abyssea about how my EBODY IS RUINZORED.

Except now, the focus has shifted to the new weapons. You can't simply add something that's got almost double the damage rating of a previously top-tier weapon and expect attitudes to change. Be it down to future content SE implement or the humanity of the playerbase demanding these weapons in order to invite you, it'll stay the same.

Are we going to see battles that you simply can't win efficiently because you'll need one of the higher damage weapons? If so, where does the process end? People have already tried to counter-argue with the fact that SoA is progressional content. You need to do reive in order to do wildkeeper reives, which in turn you need to do Delve etc. etc.

Progression needs value in order to make it a worthwhile time investment. To wipe out a decade of previous content is a bold move, but does it really go towards fixing the problems currently in the game? I don't think it does.

[Afania]

You realize this entire "reset" is designed to move away from Tanakas 3 year grindhouse, yes?

Fact is, the game needed a reset button because when you NEED an R/M/E to compete at the content then something isn't right. SoA puts everyone on an even footing for the inevitable R/M/E buff but as per the usual people are too busy complaining a la Abyssea about how my EBODY IS RUINZORED.

Seriously people, since Abyssea the games paradigm has shifted. Quit worrying about being immortalized through ultimate weapons and enjoy the content.

Lol no. Because this isn't how FFXI works.

The content isn't nearly as enjoyable if you know there would be gear reset this big every year. It's only enjoyable if the accomplishment stays, and that's how FFXI, this MMORPG works, in past 10 years. Ppl do content not because it's fun, but to be the best, and result>journey in this game. And this update just tells players that enjoyed FFXI in the past "go play other MMO or quit now"

The reason why me, or majority of 99R/E/M owners went through all that 3 year grind house BS is to obtain best weapons that was expected to stay on top after update via trials.

If you know your gear will be resetted every update, would you still be motivated in go to Adoulin area hitting tree root for 2hr a day? Or organize 2 ally to kill an NM for 3hours? Personally I won't. And if I do, I'd rather go to other MMO that resets gear for better/more fun content that doesn't involve spending 2hr on making pt/hitting tree root/mind numbing grind for 2hrs or spam ok button to lv up a craft/fish/digging to make gil for it.

The pace and general game mechanics of this game, just won't be very enjoyable if there's small gear reset every 3 months and big gear reset every half~1 years. Unless they changed the game mechanics and economy completely, which I highly doubt they can considering this game has way less resources than it used to be.

Abysea changed how this game worked, but it was not as bad as this reset. Abyssea introduced new set of legendary weapons that would probably stay on top for another 3 years to come(and it did), on top of new lv cap is coming so everyone knows things would be different at 99 anyways. And SE announced lv 99 cap way before hand that players was prepared for gear reset anyways.

And even then, ppl DID quitted when Abyssea hit, Abyssea era did suffered from playerbase shrink and it's fact.

This reset, not only they changed everything, but they also failed to communicate(bolded for importance) with the playerbase by providing more details about what they're planning to. All they said was they'd fix R/E/M once they have the resource to(yay inc R/E/M adjustment 5 years later, let's quit and see what happen after 5 years) and gear progression would be bigger and in tiers.

And the result is, nobody is certain about the future, and ppl lost motivation.(bolded for importance once again)

If you're going to invest large amount of time in a MMO or on a pixel item(or any rl investment really), most important thing is that you will make sure your investment worthwhile and you can get what you invest/sacrificed for. For example, you don't want to spend 10000 hours of your life in a game that looks like it will shut down soon. You don't want to pay 50M for a gear 1 week before major update. You don't want to invest in an industry irl that may crash soon.....and the list goes on.

At the current stage of FFXI, the fact is, the ones who invested 5 months of their life for R/E, or the one with R/E/M 95% done, pretty much lived in an uncerstain stage, that they don't know whether they can continue(Mythic looks like nearly impossible to complete atm, unless you have a high lv craft or 2 mules to farm your own), they'd lost motivation and may quit. Then whoever haven't invest in R/E/M also lived in uncertain stage, because with smaller player base(trust me, some ppl WILL rage quit for this, it's human nature), they don't know if invest in time to get new SoA gears would be worthwhile or not if the game playerbase is getting smaller.

Having an unstable future, IMO, it's a taboo in any rl industry, and in any MMO. Because you'd lost motivation if the future isn't secured, and that's the single most important thing to keep ppl going forward. And if anyone thinks other MMO is successful with gear reset so FFXI can do it too and would be just as successful, then I'd say you're too naive about MMO industry. A MMO this old, the last thing they should do is to change the way it work completely, it's not like it'd gain new playerbase by changing the game mechanics, and you'd just pissed off old/dedicated players that was expecting/wanted the game to work the old way. Because player's emotion, how they feel and human nature had a major factor in MMO management. Certain decision may make sense in terms of logic and theory, but in reality it's hard to execute. FFXIV failed hard because of it. Lack of communication and bad gear reset execution like this, is a taboo for MMORPG.

Imagine you invested a lot of money in a rl company, with a small group of dedicated customer base, one day the company suddenly decided to change the direction by ditching current existing customer base(and hoping the existing customer base would adapt the change, lol get real), while hoping to attract new customer base that is unlikely/very hard to get. Then I tell all the investors/customers "deal with it, get over it, because that's how every other company do" How would you feel?

The fact is, the way MMO works, you just aren't going to get new player base that easy, and the best you can do is to keep current customer base. The ones playing current-gen MMO probably won't come to FFXI with new direction, and lack of communication just pissed off existing playerbase who stayed for current FFXI.

Even if FFXI become successful with new direction, it'd take years to get the faith from the playerbase back. By that time they'd already lost considerable amount of playerbase.

The only right way to deal with R/E/M issue, is to make your 3 year boring grind worthwhile by being the best of the best, so players would play for 3 years to get it and still has motivation. The reason why you need R/E/M to compete, is either because certain job(DRG to be specific) is too weak, or they hand out too many R/E/M that they have to balance the difficulty based on the amount of population that has R/E/M.....if 1% of playerbase has R/E/M, the content would be effectively beatable without it. If 80% of playerbase has R/E/M, it'd become a requirement to keep up with the difficulty.

They made a mistake by handing out R/E/M to more playerbase and had to make game content efficiently beatable with one, they tried to fix the mistake by making R/E/M sidegrade so ppl can compete without one and created a bigger mistake, so now they decided to make R/E/M worthless anyways, by destorying FFXI and it's most hardcore playerbase, then hope one day, maybe(small chance :) ) 3 years later we can have a brand new FFXI, with a much smaller playerbase. So you created a hole on the road and fixed it by digging more holes, lol.

No matter how you can use other MMORPG as example, and tell everyone to get over it, I only see inevitable playerbase shrink, like what happened in Abyssea era, except this time is even worse. Blindly copying other MMO without factoring other factors that doesn't exist in other MMO, just isn't very good way to manage MMO IMO.

tl; dr:

Whether you like it or not, or how you tell ppl to deal with it and get over it because game needs reset, this update just isn't a very smart decision.

[Elexia]

It's still just a video game. Name another MMORPG that keeps ONE SET OF WEAPON OR ARMOR as the top and must need to do any content. I'm very curious because most MMOs, especially in 2013, has an actual gear progression.

You say it's not a smart decision, it's understandable being butthurt and crying if you completed a relic and mythic in 2007 for example, but for fucks sake, it takes only a month-2 months tops to complete a relic these days and mere days to complete an empyrean if you're dedicated.

It only takes awhile to complete a Mythic because of, as I stated, artificial difficulty. These new weapons actually has an entry barrier that'll make them actually something to work for (sounds familiar?)

The sad part about all of this bitching, the ones bitching are out there working towards getting these weapons. :\ The other funny thing about this, it was likely the same people who bitched when Abyssea released..oh, you don't remember the years and years we spent grinding content like Sky, Sea, Ground Kings and Einherjar only for Abyssea and VW to come out and negate all that work and everyone moved on their with lives just fine?

You say you can't use other MMORPGs as an example, but why is it that everyone is content in said other MMOs with gear progression..? Probably because almost every other MMO is designed this way and not keep things relevant for years on end rather than making something better to work for. Serious question Afania, did you join post Abyssea? Or did you quit after Abyssea released? I'm going to guess you joined post Abyssea.

[Hayward]

I'm going to say it like this and end my contribution here: If your only reason for quitting this game is because S-E upset your position at the top of your server (or so you'll have us believe), then I can say for myself that you will not be missed. Status hounds don't mean a thing in my world if they're doing nothing but showing themselves off 23 out of 24 hours. You can point at my signature all you want in some vain attempt at calling me out. As proud as I am of what I did for those pieces of armor (with help at times from good people), don't for one minute think I ever lorded that over anyone's head. It is what it is.

I haven't much interest in acquiring these weapons unless one of them improves my SMN job manyfold from where the job stands presently. However, I have no intention of quitting just because my Empyrean Armor and the various Magian weapons I've built are supplanted by stronger items.

[Karbuncle]

*sigh* I just love the drama here. The wailing and Gnashing of teeth.

Anyway here's some advice:

Improvise, Adapt, overcome, or quit.

Quit or suspend-and-see is the best option for me at this crossroad. IDK About you, But I'm not so ADHD that my only interest is grabbing the next shiny carrot they dangle infront of me seconds after I've nibbled on the other carrot I've finally got my hands on. In fact this is the very reason I chose FFXI.

I chose FFXI as my MMO entirely because gear had some term of longevity, pieces would be replaced, but it wouldn't be like other MMOs where every update you can expect 99% of your gear to be worthless. FFXI didn't have that, and thats what attracted me to it.

I don't want this bland generic MMO design sh*t with gear ladders they're throwing down our throat, Its not why i chose this game. If you like it? F**king good for you, there's about 1000 other MMOs on the market with this sh*tty design and you can play them for the 3 months their servers are active before they go FTP/Eshop with 10k people max.

FFXI was a niche MMO to me, it catered to the part of me who likes upgrading, but also like that sense of longevity some items have or had. Everyone who plays know eventually most if not all of your armor will become out of date, but going in a design direction where everything you have is worthless in 2 months just competely kills my, and very many others like me, will to play.

We get sh*t gets replaced, we just hate that its getting replaced so rapidly and so absolutely and by such insane bounds. Thats not why we love FFXI, Its not why i've been playing since NA Beta, thats not the FFXI i know, and its not what I want.

There's already an over saturation of poorly designed geargrind "WoW Killers" on the market, and none of them have a Decade old combat/skill system, FFXI doesn't need to become one of them. This game is still alive 11 years later, so obviously what its been doing the last 10 years was good enough, why the sudden idea that if they didn't do this, the game wouldn't be fun or be played? Every single update, (besides maybe legion...) they've released some armor that was top, some sidegrade, and some that makes you scratch your head... but we still worked for it, and we still played.

For 10 years this game has played the "Some Upgrade, some sidegrade, some "wat"" game with updates, and for 10 years its still active. It lost players over the course of time, but most if not all MMO's do, rather it be people who out-grow it, people who just decide to jump ship for a newer shinier MMO, or what have you... but FFXI still stands even with all this huff and puff over how the game would be dead if not for this new "gear ladder, replace it all" mindset.

Long story short, We don't need every single piece of our equipment to become sh*t each update to remain interested. Make the content fun and the rewards good, but we don't need what ... this whole thing... is doing. Its causing way more uproar than praising. Should note, I understand my views are all opinions, But I haven't spoken to a single person who likes this design pattern that doesn't give the reason "CAUSE SUCK IT UP". (Case at point, thanks below me).

Edit: And like 3 posts up someone's said pretty much the same thing i have <3

[Falseliberty]

For the love of god can we at least see what plans devs have in store for r/e/m before brandishing pitchforks?
The fact that this thread has more posts than the others mean people are not concerned with communicating ideas on how to make events more fun but rather that there e-peen is not best anymore, All this crap about "hard work" in a video game...really? And then you have the asshats who talk about how things suck now but how things was so dam great during "kings"

[Karbuncle]

If you think its about Epeen you have read so very little, and I fear you simply do not care to understand even the slightest why any of us are upset. Speaking for me personally, It has f**k all to do with Epeen, and more with the game i love and chose for over a decade is turning the car around and driving down "WoW Killer" Bland MMO Gear ladder Boulevard, and thats not the car I hopped into.

[Elexia]

For the love of god can we at least see what plans devs have in store for r/e/m before brandishing pitchforks?
The fact that this thread has more posts than the others mean people are not concerned with communicating ideas on how to make events more fun but rather that there e-peen is not best anymore, All this crap about "hard work" in a video game...really? And then you have the asshats who talk about how things suck now but how things was so dam great during "kings"

The irony is...none of the R/E/M is hard work. It's just 99% fetch quests. Mythics are stupidly designed and there were a huge topic recently calling for SE to fix it..oh, yeah people forgot about that huh?

Mythic has a portion you need to do Assaults and Salvage, ok that's cool..except you can only do 4-5 assaults a day and you need a constantly supply of assault points in order to do Salvage up to 2 times a day..that's such hard work. Then you need to collect 30,000 alexandrites.

Why? Like..seriously, why? Not even the "story" explains why they need 30,000. People are just exaggerating the "hard work" needed for an REM these days because if it was such hard work why is it that you're spamming easy content or wasting so much gil buying frivolous items when they could actually make content for progressing the weapons that would actually be hard work?

Sorry to say but spamming VW or buying out of bazaars is the least acceptable definition of hard work. Especially when most of the update path requires kill shots on hundreds of monsters (why hundreds of thousands? you already did your "hard work" obtaining the weapon.)

As much as I love FFXI, some people honestly can't see past their own noses.


If you think its about Epeen you have read so very little

"My weapon I worked "so hard for" is outdone by a stronger weapon and I refuse to go and get the better option."

That's definitely not Epeen, that's just whining.

[Karbuncle]

The irony is...none of the R/E/M is hard work. It's just 99% fetch quests. Mythics are stupidly designed and there were a huge topic recently calling for SE to fix it..oh, yeah people forgot about that huh?

Mythic has a portion you need to do Assaults and Salvage, ok that's cool..except you can only do 4-5 assaults a day and you need a constantly supply of assault points in order to do Salvage up to 2 times a day..that's such hard work. Then you need to collect 30,000 alexandrites.

Why? Like..seriously, why? Not even the "story" explains why they need 30,000. People are just exaggerating the "hard work" needed for an REM these days because if it was such hard work why is it that you're spamming easy content or wasting so much gil buying frivolous items when they could actually make content for progressing the weapons that would actually be hard work?

Sorry to say but spamming VW or buying out of bazaars is the least acceptable definition of hard work. Especially when most of the update path requires kill shots on hundreds of monsters (why hundreds of thousands? you already did your "hard work" obtaining the weapon.)

As much as I love FFXI, some people honestly can't see past their own noses.



"My weapon I worked "so hard for" is outdone by a stronger weapon and I refuse to go and get the better option."

That's definitely not Epeen, that's just whining.

None of the R/M/E Are hard work
>Doesn't own any 99 Versions.

If its so easy, Why aren't you swimming in 99 RME? Oh, cause your talking out of your ass. Yes, Getting a 75/80 R or E is stupid easy, Getting it to 90/95 from there is also quite easy, Getting them to 95/99 (E and R respectively), Not easy. Getting an Afterglow? Downright insaniac level.

Mythics are a whole other ballpark. They're stupid no matter how you look at it. But the downright point is, sh*ts no cake walk, and while yes, there is some level of ease in getting them these days, Getting them to 99 is a real chore for all 3. ADL is annoying at best and downright stupid at worst, 1,500 Metal plates is no easy task, rather you farm the gil for it or do VW yourself... Both are a long drawn out task, Gil doesn't just appear in your inventory... Just, downright, the point is, R/M/E Are not at all easy to get to 99, rather you buy it all or not, Its expensive and you have to earn the gil somewhere, or its time consuming and its not so easy to collect 1,500 Plates or 5 Marrows if all you have if yourself.

You guys trivialize the efforts of others all in the name of "hurt epeen" bashing, when in essence, all you're doing is getting a power high off some false sense of accomplishment because you think every RME holder is some elitist epeener who wants nothing more than to dump on those without them, which is flat out Bullsh*t. I didn't get my Relic to 99 because i was wanting t0 sh*t on Parses, I got a Mandau for crying out loud, I got it cause I loved THF, not to show anyone up, and I don't think I'm better than anyone else for it.

But, seriously though, I have to reiterate, for me, Its not even about RME anymore, That is a drop in the bucket compared to the bigger problem, which I've explained in my previous post. And the only thing bashing everyone and trivializing their work is doing is showing how terrible of a person you really are, you are no different than the hypothetical elitists you are bashing... the second you feel an ounce of power in your belly you go on a high horse spree laughing at the misfortune of others, judging them all by the same standard.

[Stan64]

Whatever I say it will add fuel to the fire. But I love this move.

The game have grown stagnant. People grew reluctant to do new events because they had good gear, the new stuff were sidegrades. No one wanted to actual challenge new content. What good are updates to a MMO when 99.9% of the player base don't like new content?

Now there is a new, fresh event with amazing gear. You can farm it low man slowly, even SOLO. Or bring an alliance and get the very best gear after learning theorycrafting strategies and gearing. It's an awesome challenging event with cool gear.

Nope. Then people rather quit.

If you are good at FFXI. You just adapt. Go after the new content, challenge it. And when the new RME adjustments are released you challenge that content. If you sit in a corner with everyone else you will be left behind. That's an MMO for you.


On another note:
I've seen comments that WoW isn't challenging. That their game design sucks. And it's sad to see people so misinformed and hating on another concept that truly works. But that's that and this is this. (For those people who read this comment as "FFXI should be WoW", what is wrong with you?)

[Tamoa]

You say it's not a smart decision, it's understandable being butthurt and crying if you completed a relic and mythic in 2007 for example, but for fucks sake, it takes only a month-2 months tops to complete a relic these days and mere days to complete an empyrean if you're dedicated.



It takes "mere days" to complete an empyrean? Really? Completing an empyrean means doing ALL the trials and making it into the level 99 version (if you want to nitpick it needs afterglow too, to be truly complete) and unless you are sitting on millions and millions of gil there is no way you can complete that empyrean in "mere days". That is assuming the heavy metal plates and riftdross/cinders are plentiful in bazaars too, obviously.

It sure as hell took me a LOT more than "mere days" to complete my 2 level 99 empyrean weapons. It took hours and hours of doing VWNM (especially for the first one, when heavy metal plates were over twice the price they are currently), hoping I'd get heavy metal pouches, and hours and hours of dynamis currency farming etc. to make gil to buy heavy metal plates and riftdross/cinders.

Same goes for relics - a relic weapon is only complete once it's level 99. Again, you need millions of gil for those 5 marrows for the last trial, unless you're lucky enough to have a linkshell or a group of friends to help you with ADL.

And no, I never bitched when Abyssea was released. I never bitched when my 28mil Dusk Gloves +1 were reduced to being worth less than 300k. I never bitched when my 16mil Ares's Cuirass was made worthless by ingot price dropping to a tenth of what I paid. Why? Because level cap kept being raised and I don't think any of us expected every single piece of gear to stay relevant. However, I did expect R/E/Ms to stay relevant at level 99. And by the looks and sounds of it, I'm not alone there.

Also, I don't get why people insist on comparing FFXI to other MMOs. FFXI was never like other MMOs.

[Byrth]

The irony is...none of the R/E/M is hard work. It's just 99% fetch quests. Mythics are stupidly designed and there were a huge topic recently calling for SE to fix it..oh, yeah people forgot about that huh?

Mythic has a portion you need to do Assaults and Salvage, ok that's cool..except you can only do 4-5 assaults a day and you need a constantly supply of assault points in order to do Salvage up to 2 times a day..that's such hard work. Then you need to collect 30,000 alexandrites.

Why? Like..seriously, why? Not even the "story" explains why they need 30,000. People are just exaggerating the "hard work" needed for an REM these days because if it was such hard work why is it that you're spamming easy content or wasting so much gil buying frivolous items when they could actually make content for progressing the weapons that would actually be hard work?

Sorry to say but spamming VW or buying out of bazaars is the least acceptable definition of hard work. Especially when most of the update path requires kill shots on hundreds of monsters (why hundreds of thousands? you already did your "hard work" obtaining the weapon.)

As much as I love FFXI, some people honestly can't see past their own noses.

I guess what you've failed to do is explain how this new system is in any way superior to the old system.

I'd also like to hear your thoughts on why radically changing the game reward design is a good idea when subscribers were apparently comfortable enough with the old system to stay subscribed for 11 years. Specifically, we've moved from a fairly unique "any gear you make will be useful for years" reward system to a Warcraft-esque "new dungeon came out. Time to ditch all your old gear and get the new stuff" system. How is this alternative superior in a game that does not really have the potential to attract new subscribers but was very good at retaining old ones?

[CrystalWeapon]

Watch they piss off more people by making the fix to the r/m/e situation random synergy augments.

[Karbuncle]

That's an MMO for you.

I Agree, That may be what most crap MMO's do, but that's never what FFXI was, and is why the core of these people are upset. I honestly don't know who's been arguing in this thread, if they're crying cause their gear is outdated and their epeen is broke, well sucks to be them. But for the reasnoable lot of us, Its about this design not being the FFXI we've all liked.

I don't think a single event outside of Legion introduced a horde of "Mediocre sidegrades", VW, Meebles, NNI, they introduced some top peices, even Neo_salvage introduced a good chunk of "best" set items, for THF i know for sure, and Reive armor offered amazing easy to obtain upgrades.

But Reives are not fun, and they're 90% of the content right now. Skirmish? I really had fun with Skirmish actually, it was exciting and quick, and I even got a Scythe out of it... But that's cool. I worked on that gear because I liked the idea of having a good weapon for my jobs I don't want RME for... Its just i mean is no one seeing the absurdity of D:108 Daggers? I mean downright BONKERS.

I like some of these events, I like some of the ideas they're throwing out, Its not that I completely hate it, I just don't think this is the FFXI I grow to love in 10 years. Its got nothing to do with "being good and you will adapt", no, If you like laying back and taking whatever they shove up your a**, i mean, all to you, kinda kinky, but its not me. I liked FFXI, not World Of GrearGrinder: Rift Wars XI.


Watch they piss off more people by making the fix to the r/m/e situation random synergy augments.

Gilfinder +1 On Mandau, HQ Augment will be Treasure Hunter +1.


I'd also like to hear your thoughts on why radically changing the game reward design is a good idea when subscribers were apparently comfortable enough with the old system to stay subscribed for 11 years. Specifically, we've moved from a fairly unique "any gear you make will be useful for years" reward system to a Warcraft-esque "new dungeon came out. Time to ditch all your old gear and get the new stuff" system. How is this alternative superior in a game that does not really have the potential to attract new subscribers but was very good at retaining old ones?

And can someone answer this for me? Seriously, Honest request. I want someone to explain to me why this is a good design choice for FFXI, and please provide answers to each one of Byrth's points. Hell, if you have a few for us, We'd be happy to answer them, me specifically. :)

[Byrth]

Beyond that, bruised egos isn't even the problem here. The problem is that melees, which have long been the most efficient damage source, just received a 20-50% DPS boost depending on the job and access to the HQ Delve weapons. The NQ R/Ex Delve weapons can be purchased with plasma, the Delve equivalent of Cruor/etc., so they're not an unknown. They will be obtained by everyone that wants them.

These "NQ" Delve weaponsweapons are: http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/April_2013_Version_Update_Changes#Weapons

*Rigor Baghnakhs (H2H) - DMG:+101 Delay:+60 Accuracy+15 Automaton: Accuracy+20 Ranged Accuracy+20 Magic Accuracy+20 - (Spharai D+52 Delay+86)
* Aphotic Kukri (Dagger) - DMG:91 Delay:200 STR+6 Accuracy+18 Evasion+10 - (Mandau D55/176)
* Halachuinic Sword (Sword) - DMG:104 Delay:228 Accuracy+16 Attack+15
* Bereaver (GS) - DMG:209 Delay:456 Accuracy+18 Attack+18
* Brethren Axe (Axe) - DMG:132 Delay:288 Accuracy+16 Enmity-4 Pet: Accuracy+20
* Bloodbath Axe (GA) - DMG:231 Delay:504 Accuracy+18 "Double Attack"+2%
* Dimmet Scythe (Scythe) - DMG:242 Delay:528 Accuracy+13 Attack+20
* Ophidian Trident (Polearm) - DMG:181 Delay:396 DEX+8 VIT+8 Accuracy+8 Wyvern: Increases accuracy
* Kiji (Katana) - DMG:87 Delay:190 Accuracy+16 Evasion+13 - (Kikoku D64/210)
* Uguisumaru (GKT) - DMG:192 Delay:420 STR+7 Accuracy+17
* Soothsayer Staff (Staff) - DMG:145 Delay:366 MP+50 INT+10 Magic Accuracy+15 "Magic Atk. Bonus"+52
* Yaskomo's Pole (Staff) - DMG:150 Delay:402 MP+100 Avatar: Magic Accuracy+18 "Magic Atk. Bonus"+42
* Mondaha's Cudgel (Staff) - DMG:130 Delay:340 MP+30 MND+10 Accuracy+17
* Speleogen Bow (Bow) - DMG:221 Delay:600 Ranged Accuracy+18 Ranged Attack+15
* Surefire Arquebus (Gun) - DMG:96 Delay:600 Ranged Accuracy+18 Ranged Attack+10 Enmity-4

Italicized ones have not been confirmed, but probably drop off/are given access to by killing the low Tier NMs. These are the worst weapons added in this patch and they still utterly crush the 99 R/M/E alternatives across the board.


Now, on to the real issue. If everyone has these weapons (and anyone that wants to will) then they will become the new DD standard. Other sources of damage (like Magic, Ranged, or Pet) were already not competitive with a buffed melee, and now they're not going to be competitive with an unbuffed melee. If you examine the above weapons, you'll notice that mages got kind of stiffed on the easy-version. The nuking staff isn't as good as a ToM/Skirmish staff and the Avatar MAB staff is worse than the Skirmish staff. The Ranged weapons are okay but lack access to Coronach/Namas Arrow/Wildfire which means that they're strategically crappy.

Melee jobs were buffed hard and other sources of damage didn't improve much. This is not moving us towards being able to use different types of damage strategically as the situation calls for them. This is reinforcing the dominant strategy of meleeing everything to death.

Edit: Additionally, SE screwed 1H jobs by making one incredibly-high DPS weapon that's easily obtainable for each weapon type. 2H jobs will obviously use that weapon and gain the full effects of its DPS boost, but 1H jobs will probably still have to Dual Wield and thus will be using one lower DPS weapon, which decreases their overall DPS. SE took a lot of steps backwards along the path that they seemed to be traversing with this update. Maybe it's necessary to go where they want to be, but I used to think that I could see where we were headed and now I don't know.

[Lotto]

Any feedbacks from the JP community? I'm curious how they react to those new weapons.

[Byrth]

Any feedbacks from the JP community? I'm curious how they react to those new weapons.

They're threatening to quit en masse / making "goodbye" posts and the mods are working overtime deleting their posts.

[Stan64]

I Agree, That may be what most crap MMO's do
Good work quoting me out of context and missing the point.

To clarify. Challenge new content. That's an MMO for you.

And yes. You, me and the other 1% of the players actually challenge the new content.

And to your second question. There are very very few players left that played for straight 11 years and is content with the game. This whole decision probably came from higher up in SE. "Make FFXI better so new players actually stays in the game and play as the user base is dwindling already."

[Lotto]

"My weapon I worked "so hard for" is outdone by a stronger weapon and I refuse to go and get the better option."

That's definitely not Epeen, that's just whining.

You don't seem to understand why R/E/Ms are complaining. I don't mind that some weapons are close or a bit higher than my R/E/Ms 99 but when a weapon that you can buy at the AH just destroy a weapon I needed months to build, there's a problem. Another thing is they don't even offer a solution right now, the "we'll look into it" isn't acceptable. Right now I feel cheated, this is just an insult from SE to every R/E/Ms 99 holders.

When I check the stats on all those new weapons I only see the message from SE to some his players : ┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐

[Kojo]

They're threatening to quit en masse / making "goodbye" posts and the mods are working overtime deleting their posts.

Pretty much, the one Asym translated last night sounded like they've lost all hope, lol. Idk, but I saw one person has already gotten the 170~ dmg rare/ex club, so... So much for nerfing before anyone can get them.

[Zagen]

You don't seem to understand why R/E/Ms are complaining. I don't mind that some weapons are close or a bit higher than my R/E/Ms 99 but when a weapon that you can buy at the AH just destroy a weapon I needed months to build, there's a problem. Another thing is they don't even offer a solution right now, the "we'll look into it" isn't acceptable. Right now I feel cheated, this is just an insult from SE to every R/E/Ms 99 holders.

When I check the stats on all those new weapons I only see the message from SE to some his players : ┌∩┐(◣_◢)┌∩┐

If you feel that way then do so like many others and unsubscribe. If you honestly think whining on here is going to get R/E/M updates out any faster you're well crazier than the devs that came up with the new weapons.

I'm more than likely in the same or similar boat as Elexia, my weapons have been out classed now it's time to replace them.

If all of you canceled instead of crying, one of two things happens:

1) R/E/M get pushed to the top of the priority list.
2) You kill off the profit of FFXI and it dies.

In either case you "win" and your voice is heard.

[Kojo]

For me, it's not so much the lack of relic upgrades, I don't think weapons should have that much damage, not now, not ever. It's too big a jump, unhealthy growth. Just my opinion.

[Nebo]

When are they going to realize that consistently designing content that requires large groups in a game that does not help you form or join large groups in any way is a serious fundamental flaw?

A lot of people have bad feelings about FFXIV, but Naoki Yoshida understands this concept very well. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ks6XrCUOIqY) I have a lot of respect for this man and I think FFXIV: ARR is going to be a wonderful game with him at the helm.

If FFXI inherited even one tenth of his design and communication philosophy, it would be a much much better (and profitable) experience

Say what you want about Abyssea. At its core, I do not believe it was popular just because it put most players into god mode. I believe it was popular because it was very accessible on an individual level. People liked it because when they logged in, there was ALWAYS something they could do, whether they were alone or with just a couple of friends.

I've been playing on and off for a couple years now. I do not have a large linkshell. I don't even know 17 other people. I have Nebo, my girlfriend's character and one other player that I do things with every day. (I would bet serious gil that this is representative of a large segment of subscribers)

And honestly, I find all of this new alliance content off-putting. I have whacked all of the roots I can stomach. I haven't been to a wildskeeper reive yet and I can't check to see if people are in the area doing them. I'm sure its reasonable to assume that people are doing them after this update but what if I go in there and no one is there? 100K Bayld well spent? (I'm contributor in 2 coalitions no and they are still 100k?)

These new delve NMs seem to require alliances...again, I'm not interested in spamming the shout channel for hours to do attempt this new alliance content. Not my idea of fun.

Don;t get me wrong, it's not the idea of playing with groups and cooperating with other people that I mind. I quite enjoy large group events. I love playing with other people. I even enjoy dying repeatedly when trying different strategies on content to findwhat works and doesn't work.

What I HATE is that the only way to form groups is through the shout channel and speaking to/inviting every individual peosonally...except I cannot invite anyone to a party that is not in the same area, and only people in certain areas can see my shout.

The problem for me is simple: Not only does FFXI NOT help me form groups, it also puts up several hurdles in my way. Trying to form pickup groups with this system is often not worth the hours of playtime it costs me. So more often than not, I do not do content that requires these large groups.

Sooner or later I'll run out of interesting things to do (seeing as how everything before SoA just got wiped off the map) and end up quitting most likely.

[Umichi]

last i checked R/M/E's have more going for them than higher base damage. Also last time i checked they are going to allow you to augment your R/M/E's via skirmishes, i recalled somewhere someone mentioning a 10% ws damage increase among other things im sure.

[Nebo]

last i checked R/M/E's have more going for them than higher base damage. Also last time i checked they are going to allow you to augment your R/M/E's via skirmishes, i recalled somewhere someone mentioning a 10% ws damage increase among other things im sure.

You should check again, your recollections are off.

[Ica]

last i checked R/M/E's have more going for them than higher base damage. Also last time i checked they are going to allow you to augment your R/M/E's via skirmishes, i recalled somewhere someone mentioning a 10% ws damage increase among other things im sure.

Where did you hear this?

[Byrth]

last i checked R/M/E's have more going for them than higher base damage.

Technically true, but the gap in DPS is much larger than this would account for.


Also last time i checked they are going to allow you to augment your R/M/E's via skirmishes, i recalled somewhere someone mentioning a 10% ws damage increase among other things im sure.

False.

[Prothscar]

when you're working with weapons that have double the base damage of relics/mythics/emps as well as relic-sized stat bonuses, r/m/e's "other bonuses" are effectively rendered moot.

[Tamoa]

last i checked R/M/E's have more going for them than higher base damage.

This is true, however a GK which has over 100 base damage more than the 99 R/E/M GKs is going to absolutely crush all 3 of them damage wise despite their aftermaths/hidden effects.



Also last time i checked they are going to allow you to augment your R/M/E's via skirmishes, i recalled somewhere someone mentioning a 10% ws damage increase among other things im sure.

SE has never said this. In fact, SE hasn't given us as much as a hint how the upgrades to R/M/Es will be done (because they themselves don't know yet), all they have said is that it will eventually (probably) be possible for us to upgrade them. Key word: eventually.

[Nebo]

SE has never said this.

What they did say was that they weren't sure if they had the resources or manpower to implement the RME upgrade system they imagined.

So it's not even a certainty that it will happen. And even if it does, it's not out of the concept phase.

Hold your breath for it.

[Mittenz]

The irony is...none of the R/E/M is hard work. It's just 99% fetch quests. Mythics are stupidly designed and there were a huge topic recently calling for SE to fix it..oh, yeah people forgot about that huh?

Mythic has a portion you need to do Assaults and Salvage, ok that's cool..except you can only do 4-5 assaults a day and you need a constantly supply of assault points in order to do Salvage up to 2 times a day..that's such hard work. Then you need to collect 30,000 alexandrites.

Why? Like..seriously, why? Not even the "story" explains why they need 30,000. People are just exaggerating the "hard work" needed for an REM these days because if it was such hard work why is it that you're spamming easy content or wasting so much gil buying frivolous items when they could actually make content for progressing the weapons that would actually be hard work?


Actually the story does explain why you need 30k Alex and the rest of the tasks maybe you should complete it before making these statements (I have twice)

[Umichi]

when you're working with weapons that have double the base damage of relics/mythics/emps as well as relic-sized stat bonuses, r/m/e's "other bonuses" are effectively rendered moot.

solo lvl 3 skillchains disagree as a dragoon you can spam those for quite some time..., looking at the drg polearm I also see it lacks +40 acc, or anything that augments jumps or makes drakesbane 30% stronger, or deals double damage occasionally. do you also notice how low the delay is on it? 392 that means it takes ~10 hits to even do a ws with that thing. which means bye bye 5 hit set-up or 5-6 depending on the player, if anything after store tp and haste your going to be hitting around 6-7 hits to get a ws off, the only difference is it might be a little bit faster or just about the same or less (depending on the player) as a 492 delay weapon..

outside of mythic which i havent talked to many drgs with it please tell me how a higher base damage is going to out do any of Drg's RME?

Edit: it has come to my attention that Drg's lances may be more balanced than others which is why the stats on this weapon made me compare them as almost equals on the field of battle.

Edit: And to the comment augmenting rMEs I apoligize as I stated i had heard not confirmed.

this is also the first time weapons have actually been allowed higher gear levels and be accesible by everyone compared to armour which was caught up ages ago

[Byrth]

Well:
* Gungnir and Rhongo are not good weapons (both are worse than Ryunohige even if it doesn't have AM3 up), so lets not discuss them because they are irrelevant.
* Ryunohige enhances Jump and High Jump by making them Crit. It also gives Jump +35% Attack at level 99. People use Spirit/Soul Jump for the extra TP, so those enhancements are useless.
* Ryunohige is D151/492 delay. The new (NQ) polearm is D181/396 delay. Assuming constant, free AM3 on Ryunohige, it would have approximately equivalent DPS to the new (NQ) polearm. AM3 isn't constant or free, so the DPS is actually lower.
* Assuming constant, free AM3 on Ryunohige, it has higher TP gain than the new polearm. However, AM3 isn't constant or free and you sacrifice 300TP to activate it. Whether or not it actually WSs more will depend on the event.
* Drakesbane with Damage+30% is better than Stardiver with 30 more base damage against content that doesn't resist critical hits (like Morta, Bismarck, or Legion's Mul wave 2-3 monsters). So that's an advantage for Ryunohige 99.

So congrats, Level 99 Ryunohige with free AM3 is probably a better weapon than the 30k plasma Polearm some of the time. Of course, this is kind of an issue:
http://wiki.bluegartr.com/images/8/87/Upukirex_description.png

[Vitus]

This is the saddest most ironic message I've ever read on these forums. Any body who hit the like button on your post is ignorant and/or jealous. Don't you think if anybody in FFXI is going to get the new weapons, it's people who obtained a Relic/M/E? These are the players who always obtained the best-of-the-best, why would that change now?

The reason R/M/E holders aren't as much disappointed that their weapon is replaced, but that they have to do the work to obtain them and disband a legacy carried on for 10 years.

What a sad post.
Contradiction much? The reason you build a bad*ss weapon is to smash notorious baddies harder, more efficiently. Now SE gives you better, badder toys to smash things even harder. What's there to complain about? Just relax, embrace the change. You should go out see the real world sometimes. It is beautiful and constantly changing. 10yrs is a very very long time, even in real word standard, my friend. In 10yrs, Europe will melt, China will rule the world, Yellow will become the new White, supremacy will be spelled backward. That's how long 10yrs is.

[Umichi]

forgive me but im not well versed in all the weapons from this... also from the perspective of a min/maxer gugnir and rhongo hold no light to ryu. so they are still relavent to a mass of players who don't min/max

as far as the polearm you listed that looks like it's going to require alot of time and effort to build do you have any info in regards to how it's built? if anything i can see this being in the realms of RME (aka well be adding another letter Than RME and then this lance.... if that sentence made ay sense eg RMEU ehrtr U is this weapons first letter) after adjustments (if they do indeed execute them) if they don't then yes this weapon is indeed OP and most people who own a RME drg wise will indeed kinda be dissappointed.. but think of this how long have they owned their RME? isn't it about time we introduce a whole new tier (that is if they don't plan on upgrading RME) or find a way to recycle older high end weapons into different evolved weapons? I think my last sentence would make a big splash so instead of losing your old weapon you worked hard for it evolves into a better weapon.

[Karbuncle]

Good work quoting me out of context and missing the point.

To clarify. Challenge new content. That's an MMO for you.

And yes. You, me and the other 1% of the players actually challenge the new content.

And to your second question. There are very very few players left that played for straight 11 years and is content with the game. This whole decision probably came from higher up in SE. "Make FFXI better so new players actually stays in the game and play as the user base is dwindling already."

nonono, I understood your context quite clearly, don't need the big boy pants on >:0

I used your post, which btw was pretty well minded, and used it as a example to explain the argument that its an "MMO" is really just not applicable to FFXI, a 11 year old MMO with a different design idea and structure than most pumped out MMO money schemes we see today

Beyond that, honestly, I like some of the new content as its fun, Skirmish i thoroughly enjoyed it was fast, rewarding, and really nice, I just hate the direction they're taking the "power" boosts, I mean, Byrth's post explain it so perfectly. Its taking the game off the rail, hell we're not even on a train anymore.

[Umichi]

nonono, I understood your context quite clearly, don't need the big boy pants on >:0

I used your post, which btw was pretty well minded, and used it as a example to explain the argument that its an "MMO" is really just not applicable to FFXI, a 11 year old MMO with a different design idea and structure than most pumped out MMO money schemes we see today

Beyond that, honestly, I like some of the new content as its fun, Skirmish i thoroughly enjoyed it was fast, rewarding, and really nice, I just hate the direction they're taking the "power" boosts, I mean, Byrth's post explain it so perfectly. Its taking the game off the rail, hell we're not even on a train anymore.

isn't that how most great adventures start? by flying off the rails?

[Karbuncle]

Yes. Sometimes, but If they disappoint enough people it'll cause a cascade effect. I know if my friends stopped logging on, I'd have 0 reason to continue playing :\, They're my group, my static, my team!

[Stan64]

nonono, I understood your context quite clearly, don't need the big boy pants on >:0
Then it was I that misunderstood. ^^ I agree with your posts as well. Just different views on the matter.

[Umichi]

Yes. Sometimes, but If they disappoint enough people it'll cause a cascade effect. I know if my friends stopped logging on, I'd have 0 reason to continue playing :\, They're my group, my static, my team!

sad face.... I recently got kicked for the first time from an LS filled with people I've played with for 5 years.. apparently no one told me i sounded like an arrogant d#@& when i discuss things.


I am saddened as most of them ignore me now..... but I continue playing.... lol it hurt alot cause I thought I could trust these guys as i was very loyal and didn't think something like the way i spoke would get me kicked lol.....

I can see why you would want to stop playing, however I feel I have a deeper bond (not saying you don't and im not competing) with this game and when i play it i treat it just like i would in RL

lol I know it's stupid but I cried cause I felt betrayed....

In regards to the NQ polearm looks like a nice inbetween for Drg's like me who are Building an RME and need an upgrade. I use vougiers contus.. I wish i could find a piece of gear that would give me the conserve tp off of it.

[Karbuncle]

also, with weapons like these, Pets and pet based damage is going to begin to fall even significantly further behind. BST and SMN alone are absolutely worthless as DD's with these weapons... Adding ~5 more MAB over the Skirmish Staff for SMN isn't going to make up for the damage difference in DD right now.

So, There's just way too much wrong with this, Unless they plan on bumping up pet base DMG by ~80 or so and doubling their attack =.=


I can see why you would want to stop playing, however I feel I have a deeper bond (not saying you don't and im not competing) with this game and when i play it i treat it just like i would in RL

And i kinda feel the same way, I've played this game for 10~11 Years... Its the reason I haven't quit til now mostly... Lost a lot of old friends, made some new... but I don't think I feel up to rebuilding my group again if another chunk of friends up and quit... and that point I don't really have much left :(

[Afania]

It's still just a video game. Name another MMORPG that keeps ONE SET OF WEAPON OR ARMOR as the top and must need to do any content. I'm very curious because most MMOs, especially in 2013, has an actual gear progression.

You say it's not a smart decision, it's understandable being butthurt and crying if you completed a relic and mythic in 2007 for example, but for fucks sake, it takes only a month-2 months tops to complete a relic these days and mere days to complete an empyrean if you're dedicated.

It only takes awhile to complete a Mythic because of, as I stated, artificial difficulty. These new weapons actually has an entry barrier that'll make them actually something to work for (sounds familiar?)

The sad part about all of this bitching, the ones bitching are out there working towards getting these weapons. :\ The other funny thing about this, it was likely the same people who bitched when Abyssea released..oh, you don't remember the years and years we spent grinding content like Sky, Sea, Ground Kings and Einherjar only for Abyssea and VW to come out and negate all that work and everyone moved on their with lives just fine?

You say you can't use other MMORPGs as an example, but why is it that everyone is content in said other MMOs with gear progression..? Probably because almost every other MMO is designed this way and not keep things relevant for years on end rather than making something better to work for. Serious question Afania, did you join post Abyssea? Or did you quit after Abyssea released? I'm going to guess you joined post Abyssea.

I love the fact that you completely ignored all the point I made, then made a point and forced me to repeat what I said.

I joined before Abyssea, when CoP still has a cap and ppl gather at WG. I didn't quit when Abyssea released(although a lot of friend did, and never came back). I wasn't exactly happy with Abyssea, but I didn't complain, the reason why I didn't complain is because Abyssea gear reset was done in a better way in terms of communication. SE already said lv cap would be lv 99, and there would be new legendary weapon. And we knew that Abyssea would be over, so nothing is finalized. So that's still a reachable, secured future even at that time.

And even then, during abyssea playerbase DID get smaller and it's fact, we had 2 server merge during Abyssea era, and the fact is, gear reset/direction change during Abyssea era never really save FFXI.

This gear reset execution is shit. Running and managing a MMO isn't about how everyone else do, and it isn't about it'd work in theory. It's about execution and communication between player base, and it's as simple as that.

If players are happy, it lives longer. If players aren't happy and want to rage quit, player base shrinks faster(shrinking is inevitable, but you can slow down the process if more ppl are happy). It's just that simple. Of course you can't make everyone happy, but at least you want to avoid making majority of players unhappy.

Yes, there would be ppl that moved on their lives and deal with it, and there would be ppl that quit. But with better execution, the players that quit would be lower number, and shitty execution like this, the player base gets smaller FASTER. And it speeds up the process of game dying. And even if you're casual and not affected with gear reset, you still suffers from smaller base regardless. And the result hurts everyone.

It's very easy to keep one set of weapon on the top and must need to do new content. If SE wants to.

Make trials to buff weapon in new content is 1 way, keep R/E/M on top and new armors in new content is another. I'm pretty sure nobody would rage that much if current armor is replaced, besides hex-1 gear, most aren't that time consuming. R/E/M lv 99 however, it has emotional attachment, and if you make a MMORPG or any company/store etc, the last thing you want to do is to cut that emotional attachment off and only use theory to convince ppl, because that's simply not gonna work. And my experience is, if you force it by telling everyone how it'd work better in theory, you'd fail.

FFXIV failed that way, dev had a concept in mind, but that's not what player wanted, so it failed.

I mean, it's not even about how other MMORPG do gear reset every once a while, because there are no emotional attachment to legendary weapons in those MMO to begin with. Why do you keep bringing it up?
Also I'm not sure where is that "relic is only 2 months of work, no big deal to get replaced" came from. Can you show me the math? Avg player with no mule, no ADL static, 2.5hr of playtime a day, and no craft need about 3 months from my calculation/experience with no break. And 2.5 hours of playtime a day is a reachable amount of time for avg players with a job but no family that can reasonably spent on this game without sacrificing life quality, assuming you get home at 7, finished dinner at 8 and log off at 10:30, take a bath and go to bed at 11~12:00.

If you have family, or have overtime and can only play on weekends, it takes about 50 weeks to finish it. The fact is that ppl do take a break sometimes, so unless you have other source of income or play longer than 2.5hr(which I don't see how it's possible with a job unless you sacrifice life quality by sleep less, spend less time on other stuff or eat faster), or have mule/craft/ADL static/fish bot, 1~2 months to finish a lv 95 relic IS NOT REACHABLE for the majority. I've been closely observing my friends who are working on a relic, and I've been calculating my gil/hr v.s my playtime ever week. Those who finished relic in 2 months or less plays way higher than 2hr a day, often has an ADL static, which isn't a reachable goal for ppl with a 9~6 job+overtime or family.

Keep R/E/M the best, at least keeping the best weapon obtainable for avg players that can't finish relic in 2 months is a way to keep players motivated. If I can only play on weekend, and it takes 50 weeks to finish a 95 relic, at least I know that after 50 weeks of playing FFXI I can own the best weapon in this game.

If you make gear reset every 3 months, all I'd know that new gear would release after I sacrifice my remaining free time on weekend to do an event that's not enjoyable until I get it. Then before I can get it gear reset comes again. I'd ended up always doing new events that's not enjoyable, for a goal that I'd never accomplish.

And fun fact, when Abyssea came and old relic got outdated, some relic owner I know of DID quit after years of sacrifices. Except those are the minority, on top of they often slave their LS to get relic, so nobody gives a damn and very little sympathy.

This gear reset affects WAY more players, especially those who spent more than 2 months to get it, which is majority of avg players. So technically it pissed off even more players than Abyssea era.

You keep saying R/E/M is easy, no big deal, and? We all admit it's a boring grind, we all admit it's just time consuming but not hard, and that's the main reason why it's pissing ppl off. We just want a reachable goal, best weapon that's obtainable, and yet not being THAT obtainable by just anyone in 30 hours and replaced in 6 months, to have sense of accomplishment in this game. If the gear doesn't take long to obtain and gets replaced easy, there won't be much sense of accomplishment. If the gear is weak, then it's not worth the effort. It's really just that easy, nothing more and nothing less.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't get it. I don't want to grind weapon for 30 hour, get it and be kind of happy, wait until next gear reset then grind another 30 hour for new gear, be kind of happy again. That's not what I've play FFXI for, if I want that I'd go to WoW at least the process is more fun.

I want to grind a god tier weapon that takes years to get, and once I get it I'm VERY, VERY, VERY happy because it's just that epic in terms of rare-ness and performance. And I know that my accomplishment stays until the server shuts down. If SE want me to do new content, put armor pieces in new content, why is it so hard to understand? I'd pay for a MMO that can make me VERY, VERY, VERY happy, but not MMO that make me kind of happy, that's just the way it goes, and completely irrelevant to how other MMO do things, simply because I pay to play THIS MMO.

I'm not sure what's the point to "get over and deal with it". Even if I did get over and deal with it, I know that I wouldn't be very happy, I'd be less involved in this game, feel less motivated and such. And I paid to be happy. And I believe that's how ppl spent months on a relic wanted too.

[Rustic]

You don't seem to understand why R/E/Ms are complaining. I don't mind that some weapons are close or a bit higher than my R/E/Ms 99 but when a weapon that you can buy at the AH just destroy a weapon I needed months to build, there's a problem. Another thing is they don't even offer a solution right now, the "we'll look into it" isn't acceptable. Right now I feel cheated, this is just an insult from SE to every R/E/Ms 99 holders.

You thought the best was "forever".

It's not. Welcome to Adoulin and the forseeable future, but expect they'll put in an R/M/E upgrade path sometime down the line. For now, this means everyone heads for the new expansion, which is what they want- players not stuck doing the same repeated content for years.

[Metaking]

my bigest issue is, is se up to doing everything else there going to have to balance to match these weapons, all pets almost all magic (elemental divine bluemagic[physical and elemental] and elemental weapon skills possibly even runs lundge and cors ele shots) and I am sure there are other misc things like holy bolts that im forgetting atm

[Byrth]

forgive me but im not well versed in all the weapons from this... also from the perspective of a min/maxer gugnir and rhongo hold no light to ryu. so they are still relavent to a mass of players who don't min/max

as far as the polearm you listed that looks like it's going to require alot of time and effort to build do you have any info in regards to how it's built? if anything i can see this being in the realms of RME (aka well be adding another letter Than RME and then this lance.... if that sentence made ay sense eg RMEU ehrtr U is this weapons first letter) after adjustments (if they do indeed execute them) if they don't then yes this weapon is indeed OP and most people who own a RME drg wise will indeed kinda be dissappointed.. but think of this how long have they owned their RME? isn't it about time we introduce a whole new tier (that is if they don't plan on upgrading RME) or find a way to recycle older high end weapons into different evolved weapons? I think my last sentence would make a big splash so instead of losing your old weapon you worked hard for it evolves into a better weapon.

There is a 99% chance the new HQ rare ex weapons come from the three big delve bosses. It is unclear whether you will be able to buy them with plasma and I cannot guess what the drop rate will be. So no. It will be a luck based loot from a difficult alliance fight. Owning one will indicate that you are capable of lotting high, rather than that you planned for and worked for the weapon because you like the job. Additionally, these hq weapons are so strong that obtaining one will make the corresponding job your best DD almost certainly.

[Umichi]

There really is no need for balancing outside of pets all of our JA and spells are bassed off of stats. so in reality the only balancing they really need to do is create a better monster.

[Karbuncle]

You thought the best was "forever".

It's not. Welcome to Adoulin and the forseeable future, but expect they'll put in an R/M/E upgrade path sometime down the line. For now, this means everyone heads for the new expansion, which is what they want- players not stuck doing the same repeated content for years.

I'd wager a guess not everyone is heading for the expansion, Since I know a good chunk of people who are not renewing their subscriptions, myself included... I've quit off and on a few times over the years, never for very long, but still occasionally something would come up. Lack of motivation, friends quitting... something.

I don't mind doing Old content if its enjoyable. some of its gotten less enjoyable. I still enjoy doing Salvage II, and NNI Was fun, while NNI isn't out-dated entirely, Salvage I/II Just became a lot less attractive. Plus, Before i could even get to a Wildskeeper, they've completely crapped on them. I haven't even gotten to beat Rala Skirmish, and its already pointless to do so.

But as it stands, this MMO design usually sinks MMO's pretty quick. Almost every new MMO with this market is dead or dying, FTP+Eshop, or something... The only one to survive on it is WoW because well, they came first, and people are generally far more addicted to their first MMO than many others. It Works for WoW cause its the status quot, most people who play FFXI did so because they liked the longevity, turning it into a repeatedly outdating gear ladder is very risky, and I don't think they have the time or resources to manage to pull out the content in the way its required if they're taking this path.

[Umichi]

There is a 99% chance the new HQ rare ex weapons come from the three big delve bosses. It is unclear whether you will be able to buy them with plasma and I cannot guess what the drop rate will be. So no. It will be a luck based loot from a difficult alliance fight. Owning one will indicate that you are capable of lotting high, rather than that you planned for and worked for the weapon because you like the job. Additionally, these hq weapons are so strong that obtaining one will make the corresponding job your best DD almost certainly.


most high end linkshells have a waiting list or points you have to spend to aquire high end pieces or to wait in line to get yours built so, essentially it won't require luck per se (that's not to say someone could get lucky)

you yourself just said that
1) don't know if it's buyable with plasma
2) 1% chance that it doesn't drop from bosses (lets not forget percentages are constants so even with a 99% chance there is still a 1% chance that it doesn't drop from bosses implying you don't know if it drops from bosses or not)
3) you do not know the drop rate if it even drops at all

so without knowing all the facts how can you definitively state that this will even be luck based?

"So no. It will be a luck based loot from a difficult alliance fight."

also last i checked RME weapons rely on luck based loot drops to aquire them. regardless that you just bought from a bazaar someone had to hunt for it(and thats for the buyable pieces).

Edit: on that note finding and obtaining gil is luck based even lol...

[Areayea]

Greetings everyone,

I'd like to share a post from Producer Akihiko Matsui in regards to a comment that was picked up from an interview relating to the future of relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons.
Originally Posted by Akihiko_Matsui
I'd like to deeply apologize for mentioning "Don’t throw away your relic, mythic, and empyrean weapons" during an interview. Relic, mythic, and empyrean (below R/M/E weapons) take a great deal of time and difficulty to obtain, and this expression was extremely lacking in consideration for all of the players who tried so hard to complete them.

What I wished to convey was that we will be implementing a system to build on R/M/E weapons, so please have them in your possession, and there was no other meaning intended.

In regards to this system, the outline has been finished; however, we have yet to test if what we have planned can be realized and if we can secure the proper amount of manpower to continue it. We are at a point in time right now where it's difficult to explain the details, so please allow us to discuss this another day.

For the Adoulin end-game content aimed at the top players, where they can obtain high level equipment as well, we will gradually make adjustments to difficulty so that once new end-game content is released you'll be able to obtain these items if you put in a bit of effort.

Also, we will similarly be adjusting content in existing areas, though it may take some time and be a limited time event.

nowwww I get it, we throw them away now :D

[Umichi]

I'd wager a guess not everyone is heading for the expansion, Since I know a good chunk of people who are not renewing their subscriptions, myself included... I've quit off and on a few times over the years, never for very long, but still occasionally something would come up. Lack of motivation, friends quitting... something.

I don't mind doing Old content if its enjoyable. some of its gotten less enjoyable. I still enjoy doing Salvage II, and NNI Was fun, while NNI isn't out-dated entirely, Salvage I/II Just became a lot less attractive. Plus, Before i could even get to a Wildskeeper, they've completely crapped on them. I haven't even gotten to beat Rala Skirmish, and its already pointless to do so.


there will always be people who want to bash the content as fast as possible either to be firsters or just to beat the shit out of it cause there is no other challenge... so don't feel to bad about people beating it before you. that is if thats what you meant.

If it makes you feel any better outside of a little bit of sky and a little bit of old school nyzule and some assault and alot of WoE i really havent even touched much of the endgame content in this game. I'm starting to do dynamis for the sake of my relic which i still plan on completing.

[Afania]

I'd wager a guess not everyone is heading for the expansion, Since I know a good chunk of people who are not renewing their subscriptions, myself included... I've quit off and on a few times over the years, never for very long, but still occasionally something would come up. Lack of motivation, friends quitting... something.

I don't mind doing Old content if its enjoyable. some of its gotten less enjoyable. I still enjoy doing Salvage II, and NNI Was fun, while NNI isn't out-dated entirely, Salvage I/II Just became a lot less attractive. Plus, Before i could even get to a Wildskeeper, they've completely crapped on them. I haven't even gotten to beat Rala Skirmish, and its already pointless to do so.

Honestly I'd be fine with new weapons as long as SE clearly shows when and how R/E/M gets buffed so effort isn't wasted, and tells everyone how they're going to keep salvage2/NNI etc relevant so Mythic still obtainable. But they don't, and don't have a plan atm. They just dragged players to new content in worst possible way I can think of, by completely changed current economy and job/weapon hierarchy, with little to no communication.

[Tamoa]

Honestly I'd be fine with new weapons as long as SE clearly shows when and how R/E/M gets buffed so effort isn't wasted, and tells everyone how they're going to keep salvage2/NNI etc relevant so Mythic still obtainable. But they don't, and don't have a plan atm. They just dragged players to new content in worst possible way I can think of, by completely changed current economy and job/weapon hierarchy.

This, so much. Would like it a thousand times over if I could.

[Karbuncle]

there will always be people who want to bash the content as fast as possible either to be firsters or just to beat the shit out of it cause there is no other challenge... so don't feel to bad about people beating it before you. that is if thats what you meant.

If it makes you feel any better outside of a little bit of sky and a little bit of old school nyzule and some assault and alot of WoE i really havent even touched much of the endgame content in this game. I'm starting to do dynamis for the sake of my relic which i still plan on completing.

I don't mind people beating content before me, I do however fail to understand outdating items that 80-90% of the playerbase hasn't touched yet. I've participated in 2 Skirmishes, this was with buying 3 pieces myself, and actively hunting them when I coult. Failed one, Won the other, got a Scythe out of it, but the problem remains... I haven't even seen a Wildskeeper Reive yet, and already there's no reason to do it :\.

I'm just, Mixed feelings TBH, I like they're pumping out new content, but honestly I just wish this new content would have been "OMGWTF" armor to match the "OMGWTF Weapons" we just got, instead of "OMGWTFEVERYTHING" that it is. Is... that weird?

[Lotto]

You thought the best was "forever".

It's not. Welcome to Adoulin and the forseeable future, but expect they'll put in an R/M/E upgrade path sometime down the line. For now, this means everyone heads for the new expansion, which is what they want- players not stuck doing the same repeated content for years.

You still don't get it. When the mythics were released SE clearly stated that those weapons wouldn't have been as powerful as relics (and they failed). When the empyreans came out, they managed to balance them to make empys close or even to relics. However now, they just added new weapons with ridiculous base damage without even thinking 30s about balancing with R/E/Ms and yet they even admitted that currently they still don't know how they'll upgrade R/E/Ms.

At this point there are only 2 possibilities : They're either trying to kill the game before the release of FFXIV or the devs are just a bunch of retards who don't know anything about their own games.

[Metaking]

There really is no need for balancing outside of pets all of our JA and spells are bassed off of stats. so in reality the only balancing they really need to do is create a better monster. yes but thats like telling someone with a 30 dmg weapon to not worry about someone with a 300 dmg weapon because your weapon skill is based on a stat. For black mages and white mages there spells Have a base V that pritty much determines the max potential a nuke can have (yes capping dint is impossible on the higher tier of nukes but it also has a kinda nasty soft cap) and on most elemental weaponskills there is a Dstat (dint dagi ext) that generally is caped but even the uncaped ones will suffer unless se increases the Dstat, lets take sanguine blade dint 2.0 for it to match the D of the new weapons you need somthing like 65 int over your target mind you magical weapon skills only hit once have lower ftp and other issues, but yea.... most blu magical spells also follow the magical formula but have caps on Dvalues. cor shots you got me, im not sure how those work

[Karbuncle]

COR shots DMG is based of MAB and Gun/Bullet Damage IIRC... Pretty sure its based on Gun/bullet DMG.

AGI is for Accuracy IIRC (and Macc works too)

[Metaking]

lucky Star Onion Brigaders theirs(cor) should scale well then thx for info Karbuncle

[Gwynplaine]

At this point there are only 2 possibilities : They're either trying to kill the game before the release of FFXIV or the devs are just a bunch of retards who don't know anything about their own games.

I have the exact opposite opinion. I felt like all the recycled endgame content they made up during the time they were focusing on FFXIV was awful and that it was an attempt to get players going to FFXIV. I hated it so much I unsubscribed for a year. Content that is actually new and rewarding gives the game an actual future beyond playing the same endgame there has been since 2006.

[Byrth]

most high end linkshells have a waiting list or points you have to spend to aquire high end pieces or to wait in line to get yours built so, essentially it won't require luck per se (that's not to say someone could get lucky)

You obviously haven't been in a high end LS recently.


you yourself just said that
1) don't know if it's buyable with plasma
2) 1% chance that it doesn't drop from bosses (lets not forget percentages are constants so even with a 99% chance there is still a 1% chance that it doesn't drop from bosses implying you don't know if it drops from bosses or not)
3) you do not know the drop rate if it even drops at all

1) Airlixir +2s cost something like 100k Plasma and they're used to augment armors. Even if they can be bought with Plasma, will they actually be buyable that way? I don't know, but it wouldn't impact any of the issues I raised if they were.
2) They're the same models as the weapons that drop from the new Bee, Shark, and T-rex on the overworld Wildskeeper Reives. The Delve bosses are a Bee, Shark, and T-rex. It's a fact that's just awaiting confirmation at this point.
3) That's true. Still, how would the drop rate being higher negate what I said?


so without knowing all the facts how can you definitively state that this will even be luck based?
Yes. I can. Even if the drop rate is fairly high, it's still going to be luck-based whether or not it drops to your alliance and whether or not you win the lot. The content is almost certainly going to be difficult because even the NQ NMs on the overworld are pretty hard right now.


also last i checked RME weapons rely on luck based loot drops to aquire them. regardless that you just bought from a bazaar someone had to hunt for it(and thats for the buyable pieces).

Edit: on that note finding and obtaining gil is luck based even lol...

Not nearly to the same degree. At all. You're talking about farming 17,000 items that drops ~2.5/kill (Relic), 30,000 items that give ~100/run (Mythic), or ~175 items that drop ~1.5/kill (Empyrean). Those are just a matter of preparedness and directing all your resources towards the goal for the job you like. The new system is just a matter of going in with your alliance, and if it drops then maybe you lot it and gear your dragoon. Why would you do that? Well, because if you get that polearm then Dragoon can easily become your best DD job.

[Horadrim]

COR shots DMG is based of MAB and Gun/Bullet Damage IIRC... Pretty sure its based on Gun/bullet DMG.

AGI is for Accuracy IIRC (and Macc works too)

Quick Draw damage is based on a combination of MAB, Gun DAM (lol, Gundam), and Bullet DAM. AGI gets converted into M.ACC (not really, but basically) and M.ACC helps.

You're exactly right.


(2 * (Gun base DMG + bullet base DMG + Corsair's Tricorne bonus)) * (1 + (MAB / 100)) * (Elemental Staff bonus) * (Day/Weather Bonus)

If we want to get technical.

Either way... I'm past tired of this game and I've sort of moved on... I'm just hoping to hear something soon that'll keep me from just cancelling my subscription and *gasp* figuring out a way to ensure I never come back.

[Zumi]

One of the other things in game design that kinda upsets me is that the game went from small group content 6 people, and voidwatch which was easily pugable because it wasn't that hard. To this mega extreme you will die unless you have 18 really hardcore people.

New content might be fun if Abyssea didn't kill off large linkshells, and I still knew 18+ people that wanted to do stuff. I know maybe 6-8 people who play the game still, and some of those people aren't up for doing hardcore endgame. So yea bascially can't even do the new stuff they adding because it went from small groups, puggable 18 man content to content that only well organized groups can do, similar to legion.

There may be a couple of groups on the server capable of doing this but they don't really recruit anyone, and joining another group would basically mean ditching all your old friends that you played with for a long time.

When I can't do new content thats when I stop subbing to a game.

[Crimson_Slasher]

People are foaming at the mouth, in an uproar, ripping up their creditcards, breaking windows, lighting torches, and equipping pitchfork +1's. The community is paniced, the playerbase is left in a state of bewilderment and terror, with no comfort zone to recess into. And like the mighty evil corporations that rule the future, they sit atop their thrones, watching their riches dwindle, and their subjects are preparing to march to the castle, and burn it down.

In game, a large number of players, myself includes, just... dont feel like trying anymore. I logged in yesterday to just...sit there for 4 hours, before a friend offered to let me mooch a few zeruhn pages, to try to cheer me up. That went on until the details of the update, and these horrible WMDs sunk in, and they too lost urge to do anything for a while. There is no desire to work on any armor or weapons because of this, and many players, again, including myself, are left feeling hollow and empty inside. I think part of their thought is they feel secure in the fact that many players stuck on ps2 cant play other MMos with their hardware.

Now outside of game, we are facing incidents worldwide. North Korea's declaration of war, the events in sandy hook, the plant explosion and the boston marathon bombings. Place economic woes atop this, and climbing unemployment, legislation being crammed down the throats of Americans despite unpopularity and whatever else may be happening in personal life or different countries, and you paint a pretty bleak picture.

People retreat to games like these to be social, and to grind their troubles away at a pace they are comfortable with. And for some, they need that feeling of accomplishing something. The fact is with the trouble people put in, they are having fun still, on some level. But with this, people are assailed by uncertanty, and with all the other pressures in life, this may drive a large number of players to boarderline suicidal depression. Yes thats largely an exageration, I mean it figuratively, we already see players killing their characters off, leaping off the figurative ledge, with nothing to live for.

I myself, and at least 8 others i know, (3 playing, 5 considering return) are now staring down at that ledge myself. Im still trying to decide if it is worth it.

The only thing i can say at this time... If this new content and update were rolled back, or these new, horrifying weapons, that signify a vulgar display of power, were halved in damage, maybe, just maybe i would feel differently. But at this moment, many players feel cheated. With the Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapon debate, even if a weaponskill surpasses another, the players were gifted with merit weaponskills, which help level out the playingfield. This, is spitting on all established, and wrestling a game from a playerbase who asks for tweaks, not changes that treaten to violate and alienate the feelings of their international playerbase.

Yes I exagerated a lot, and theres worse things that could happen, but lots of people are already in fragile existences and states of mind. Ill be honest, sometimes, I feel I dont need any more bad news, yet here we are again. On the bright side, the extra $13 a month, can be pushed into something else, or be spent on new hardwear. Though im not sure id even bother with XIV (not that i had considered it much before) if this is what can be expected of that. Perhaps ill bide my time for MSGO, PSO2, and give Sega and Namco-Bandai my support.

Because even though hope is in the word hopeless, I have none of it at this moment.

On a more humorous and unrelated note, the same letters to spell hopeless, can be used to spell peeslosh.

[Yinnyth]

It's good that people make the biggest decisions in their life while they're emotionally fueled from 48 hours worth of news that things have changed instead of giving it some time to sink in, inspect the changes closely, and make a decision based on reason.

[Kojo]

It's not that I have no motivation to do anything anymore, it's just how fast new things became obsolete after a month, WAY before many people ever even got a chance to try for the new stuff. No one I know has ever tried Skirmish, now Skirmish is obsolete. The best course of action seems to be to just wait till SoA is complete and get the good gear then. I have no motivation...AT ALL...to try Wildskeeper Reives, Skirmish, or Delve, because Wildskeeper Reives and Skirmish are obsolete, Delve will most likely be obsolete at the end of May or in June. What's the point?

[detlef]

Honestly I'd be fine with new weapons as long as SE clearly shows when and how R/E/M gets buffed so effort isn't wasted, and tells everyone how they're going to keep salvage2/NNI etc relevant so Mythic still obtainable. But they don't, and don't have a plan atm. They just dragged players to new content in worst possible way I can think of, by completely changed current economy and job/weapon hierarchy, with little to no communication.Pretty much agree completely. I know they’re probably going to buff up RMEs, but will they bring them up to this level? And when? If SE’s plan is “well, we sorta have an idea but we’re actually not sure how or if we can implement it” then people will lose hope. I’ve already talked to a few people who said it feels like starting over.

Not to mention the other huge issues created that others mentioned:
-VW/Dynamis/Salvage content almost not worth doing
-Melee damage leaving all other forms of damage in the dust

[Gaspee]

This is all very disappointing, and people are quite upset.

I hope Square Enix listens to the player's reactions and takes appropriate action. Regardless of where you stand on the issues presented here, I find it odd that we are now on 67 pages of ranting and haven't heard from the community team much at all.

Edit: Camate did post something way back.

[Kojo]

This is all very disappointing, and people are quite upset.

I hope Square Enix listens to the player's reactions and takes appropriate action. Regardless of where you stand on the issues presented here, I find it odd that we are now on 67 pages of ranting and haven't heard from the community team at all.

I'm not surprised, Camate pretty much tells us what the Devs are saying, since this is Golden Week I doubt they are saying much of anything.

[Areayea]

you know, the more I read, and watch, the more I feel maybe it's time for R/E/Ms to become useless... it seems like they are trying to derail ffxi to be what it was when it started... a kick ass story that you happened to see alongside some buddys. Not this OMG LOOKIE I HAZ 15 RELICS. Back then there were alternatives to R/E/Ms, and most people just did storyline things, that were capped anyway. That all being said, it is kind of true that R/E/Ms aren't really kick ass things anymore since about at least 75% of FFXI population has at least one of those three now... way back when dyna was a 36 man thing only about 15~30% had a relic.

They did say that they were going to be big on the SoA storyline, maybe this is the start... as for most of the people whining about the bodies thrown at game... DID YOU HAVE AN END GAME PRE-ABBY????

if you don't happen to remember; remember camping faffy for days, and when you finally got him you had to contend with RMT cure spamming, and getting darters off your back (about 30 people needed), Wanting to literally go to the person who CFHed KB's house and shoot them with a real gun, going to Vrtra KNOWING you were going to lose with like 24~30 people, Going to sky and having to deal with all that cheating and drama and stuff. This game is like everyone can be anything by themselves now, this could be changing it back to it's roots which was a good story that required a lot of BIG groups for awesome things... not this gloatey uber bs that it's become now.

[Yamisam]

Honestly,my first reaction to the new weapons was "So,what exactly are they gonna have us killing with weapons that strong?". Knowing that they ARE planning on upgrading our R/M/E, I'm not too worried about the debut of these weapons. Not to say I'm not going to work on getting one. As a player who started at NA launch, I'm very excited to see what's in store.

As for the players who are quitting solely because of this update, have fun on WoW or where ever you end up. Karbuncle, I can relate to how you feel about having your friends come and go after all these years. It can be discouraging, but new doors open every single day in this game. Don't give up on FFXI just yet. I was in the same boat about a year ago. My best friend came back to the game and gave me a reason to keep going just before I was about to throw in the towel. We hooked up with a couple of other friends and eventually I ended up starting up a linkshell for the first time since my days on Seraph.

[Sparthos]

So how many of you have beaten a Delve Naakual to be making judgment calls that the superweaps are easily acquired?

[Kojo]

So how many of you have beaten a Delve Naakual to be making judgment calls that the superweaps are easily acquired?

Again, point missed. Many of us just don't feel motivated to do anything right now, in fear that it will be obsolete soon, after all the hard work we put into new gear.

[Yamisam]

I'm just glad that the Adoulin era content isn't just another zerg fest. Something that requires a thought process and some strategy is a VERY welcomed change.

[Sparthos]

Again, point missed. Many of us just don't feel motivated to do anything right now, in fear that it will be obsolete soon, after all the hard work we put into new gear.

So basically you dont want to play the game? The idea that everything is obsolete gearwise is just wrong, everyone now has something to chase, REMs will be scaled later, challenging battles have presented themselves and by your own logic if the gear goes bust soon who cares? You put a week or two into it anyway.

How about enjoying the content that few of you have done before crying the endtimes cometh?Its about tine something moderately difficult comes to town. Salvage 2 and Meebles werea joke.

[Karbuncle]

It isn't really. Its the same story, only thing thats changed the mindset is the DEF formula update and Enmity Changes. Without those it would all still be zerg content. Unfortunately...

Outside of that, the new NMs they released (the Tier I~V for the Delve) are actually making people throw back to Old School tanking, Though some have mentioned zerging might still be the best strategy since they might/seem to have a rage timer... Which honestly, rage timers contradict "smart tanking" and encourage zergs.

[Karbuncle]

So basically you dont want to play the game? The idea that everything is obsolete gearwise is just wrong, everyone now has something to chase, REMs will be scaled later, challenging battles have presented themselves and by your own logic if the gear goes bust soon who cares? You put a week or two into it anyway.

How about enjoying the content that few of you have done before crying the endtimes cometh?Its about tine something moderately difficult comes to town. Salvage 2 and Meebles werea joke.

For you its the status quot for MMOs, despite the fact it wasn't for FFXI. I won't bore repeating myself 100 times, But if you actually care and aren't just trying to raise your post count by poking fun and astonishingly missing the point entirely on levels that baffling, go reread some of the posts by Byrth and I, along with a few others here, who actually word it quite well. I recommend Byrth first, as he's usually the most collected.

And for what it matters, the "Obtain it in 2-weeks then replace it" is exactly whats upsetting people. This design just isn't what we played FFXI for. There's already a thousand nameless short lived MMO's shoving that design down our throat, FFXI was different, a Niche MMO, its why i enjoyed it... If this new path is what its going down, I mean, I'll give it a shot but I imagine I'll probably get bored of it in 1-2 weeks like i did with Rift, TERA, GW2, and the like which i all tried and grew bored of because I'm just not that in to grinding another carrot before I can even enjoy the one i got.

[Kojo]

I'm just glad that the Adoulin era content isn't just another zerg fest. Something that requires a thought process and some strategy is a VERY welcomed change.

THAT is welcomed, hell yes. But we've never seen an update completely render past end-game obsolete, Even with Abyssea, Sky and Sea stuff still had their places.

[SpankWustler]

I'm just glad that the Adoulin era content isn't just another zerg fest. Something that requires a thought process and some strategy is a VERY welcomed change.

Give folks a month or two to obtain sufficient weapons and maybe some new melee equipment from the new system. There will still be accuracy issues, but a majority of the new weapons are also loaded down with accuracy.

[Yamisam]

I agree totally. But the new feeling is nice while it lasts.

[Sparthos]

For you its the status quot for MMOs, despite the fact it wasn't for FFXI. I won't bore repeating myself 100 times, But if you actually care and aren't just trying to raise your post count by poking fun and astonishingly missing the point entirely on levels that baffling, go reread some of the posts by Byrth and I, along with a few others here, who actually word it quite well. I recommend Byrth first, as he's usually the most collected.


And for what it matters, the "Obtain it in 2-weeks then replace it" is exactly whats upsetting people. This design just isn't what we played FFXI for. There's already a thousand nameless short lived MMO's shoving that design down our throat, FFXI was different, a Niche MMO, its why i enjoyed it... If this new path is what its going down, I mean, I'll give it a shot but I imagine I'll probably get bored of it in 1-2 weeks like i did with Rift, TERA, GW2, and the like which i all tried and grew bored of because I'm just not that in to grinding another carrot before I can even enjoy the one i got.

I already understand what you're saying and to that I respond: The ignorance of the past is astounding. We've been here before with Abyssea when most of the solid pieces in XI went belly up and it happened virtually overnight. Horizontal progresion has been good and its been bad but mostly what its been is frustrating. You get a few good pieces in an event like Meebles and therest is garbage carted off to the side. Great, thats the diversity we want? 90% of content gear junked because itsa sidegrade of a sidegrade? Gotcha.

Legion failed. It failed because it demanded top tier skills for again...marginal upgrades. The few clear winners were chock behing barriers of HQ and Honors and the event became something for pros. Delve is an improvement as it is more welcoming to not quite as skilled folks but hit the main motivator... loot. Good loot.

So why exactly did everyone complain about Salvage 2 sidegrades again? Or better yet, why did we salivate over NNI gear? Oh right, upgrades. Clear. Freaking. Upgrades.

REMs willbe improved and perhaps they'll bring the bad ones into 2013 but for now weve got content few have done and sentiments over gear that has had its time requirements knocked down significantly. Lets not even get into the fact that relics arent rare and requiring people to have one to roll content with was beginning to seep into everything. Bastok Vw, REM dd only!

Everyones gota shot for epic loot now and if you did your event homework you are at a significant advantage. Im all about the journey when it comes to these events now.

[MarkovChain]

most high end linkshells have a waiting list or points you have to spend to aquire high end pieces
All gimp LS do that. High end LS don't exist anymore. The point system has never worked in FFXI and never will. That's it. The best and fairest way to get those weapons, at this point in the game, is too build a shout alliance with everything free lot.

Point systems don't work, trust me.

[Zumi]

All gimp LS do that. High end LS don't exist anymore. The point system has never worked in FFXI and never will. That's it. The best and fairest way to get those weapons, at this point in the game, is too build a shout alliance with everything free lot.

Point systems don't work, trust me.

I would have to agree point systems don't work, they are used so that leaders and the people at the top get everything, someone who just joined gets nothing for a very long time while helping leaders click of people get all the gear. You complain about getting nothing they call you greedy and kick you from the LS.

[Areayea]

All gimp LS do that. High end LS don't exist anymore. The point system has never worked in FFXI and never will. That's it. The best and fairest way to get those weapons, at this point in the game, is too build a shout alliance with everything free lot.

Point systems don't work, trust me.

they had their place, especially back in 36x people dynamis... if you don't know what I'm talking about, you probably weren't there.


Edit: Also sky linkshells, pretty much any real content pre ToAU and somewhat ToAU/WotG (If you remember Ixion farming...)

[Karbuncle]

I already understand what you're saying and to that I respond: The ignorance of the past is astounding. We've been here before with Abyssea when most of the solid pieces in XI went belly up and it happened virtually overnight.

Can you truly not see the difference between a Level cap increase from 75 to 99 completely replacing armor, and whats going on now?

Lets put this out of the way. I do get your point, But Its not that we want sidegrades, Its that we want our armor to actually be something, our weapons to mean something. With this design direction, there is 0 attachment to your weapons. IDK About you, But I've invested years into my character, and I've come to cherish some of its possessions. I still have my Carbuncle's Pole cause of its sentimental value, though i never expected it to remain tops... i mean, each and every armor i work hard for I work that hard knowing that its going to mean something for me for some time.

I hate tossing armor, and while i know its going to happen eventually in an MMO, FFXI always had that sense of Longevity that i enjoyed about it, its why i kept coming back to this game. If i took a break for 2-3 Months, when I come back, how far back am i going to be? am i going to have to grind 5-6 Events to get the armor to participate in the event they're outdating next week? Will i have to leech?

While i appreciate and in the past even asked for more upgrades, I didn't want the "Evil Genie" to turn this into a gear-ladder geargrinding Generic MMO.

Moving on, Lets try not to neglect the other 8-9 Years previous to Abyssea where Armor not getting outdated was still pretty status Quot. Armada Hauberk and Byakko's Haidate were still the best things in the world at 75 cap even post Salvage, and Salvage introduced arguably the best gear since Kings. I'm not saying I <3 Kings or anything, But I'm saying I and many like me chose this game, or grew used to the design idea of gear having solid longevity, even if it was a year, or two, you grew pretty comfortable your achievement meant something.

Now whats your achievement? a stepping stone to an event thats already been replaced by another event two weeks ago. Its not that armor is getting outdated, its the speed in which they're out-dating it, it does not fit FFXI, and never has. Even during Abyssea, Empyrean+1~+2 Armor held strongly as the best stuff even well into 99.


You get a few good pieces in an event like Meebles and therest is garbage carted off to the side. Great, thats the diversity we want? 90% of content gear junked because itsa sidegrade of a sidegrade? Gotcha.

The more you distort and misunderstand our views the more foolish your argument becomes.

Edit: Oh, and... Satan's going ice-skating.


All gimp LS do that. High end LS don't exist anymore. The point system has never worked in FFXI and never will. That's it. The best and fairest way to get those weapons, at this point in the game, is too build a shout alliance with everything free lot.

Point systems don't work, trust me.

I agree. While some high-End LS's do exist (I don't judge Hi-End by the amount of hair on ones neck), Point systems simply do not work out for anyone except sack holders, LS leaders, and people who server hop after getting what they want >_>.

[bryangelos]

That is quite unfortunate that you've spent so much time on pointless grinds. In SE's eyes, it's time to start moving people to bigger and better things. Relics were kings for well over 6 years of XI's life, then come Mythics then eventually Empyreans. No other MMO keeps 1 set of weapons or armor the top tier for numerous years.

And no, you can't convince me that collecting 1500 metal plates for example was supposed to be a challenge or collecting riftdross/cinder was etc etc, none of the weapons excluding Mythics were actually "hard work". So in reality, the barrier of entry for this content is actually much more harder than gaining a relic/empyrean is.

Not gonna lie, the ragequit is pretty funny, but then again I've played more MMOs than just FFXI so maybe I just understand this is the natural order of things. It sucks your hours upon hours of wasted time on nothing is outdone, but tell me, do you see everyone and their mother with it? Why not just...get one yourself and not cry about it? You chose to get a R/E/M to be "the best" did you not? Why not continue that trend?

I mean, let's be real here:

Empyrean Step 1:
Slaughter endless amount of NMs usually 3-8 times, with said NMs having the possibility of spawning between 1-24+ hours.
-Why is this necessary? Shouldn't 1 kill be enough? Why NMs that can lotto pop between 1 hour to up to 3 days?

Empyrean Step 2:
Slaughter VNMs.
-This is NP, but why if your crystal upgrade? Then you need to farm another tier 2 crystal which can take days if you're unlucky.

Empyrean Step 3:
Fetch time, bitches!
-Why do I need to collect 50 helmets? Nevermind the fact this monster can drop 2 helmets when he's clearly only wearing one, but why do I need 50 of them? Then I need to collect 75 fangs of a giant sandworm, why is it, despite the 20 or teeth clearly present in its mouth that it only drops 1-2? Let's not get into the fact that these things are somehow reviving endlessly to begin with.

Empyrean Stage 4:
Fetch time, deux bitches!
-Why do I need to collect 1500 metal plates? Or any other silly item needed? Why couldn't I do something akin to FFXIV where I'd have to slaughter something challenging (even if its just at first.)

Now, if we look at just the first bit of empyrean, what part of that is challenging or hard work? We're not even going to touch on Relics because Relics is nothing but money farming for 99% of it, something that isn't hard at all.

I hate to say it, I really really do hate to say it, but FFXIV's relic quest was much more challenging than getting a relic or empyrean in this game. The only hard weapon line is Mythic, and that was at 75 cap. What do these weapons have in common?

1. Item Fetching that's pointless.
2. Artificial difficulty in terms of lockout timers and low drop rates.
3. Busy work.

It's time to move on and SE sees this.

The reason i will not get the new items is because i don't know if they will be outdated in a month. I got the weapons i did thinking they would be the best or at least very close to the best. If you read my quote i said if they continue down this path. The path i'm referring to is making all old content obsolete and just new content is worth doing.

I know you might say well i can still do old content, but i didn't do dynamis everyday because i enjoyed it, i did it to get the best weapons. At this time the only content i see worth doing is delve and that is not enough to keep me playing, and like most like to point out, "if you don't like it quit, every MMO outdates all gear" well i thought ff11 had 1 slot they wouldn't and since i was wrong i'm taking the advice of others. I'm quitting.

[Hayward]

Edit: Oh, and... Satan's going ice-skating.

Come on, that guy's been skating in Buffalo forever for the Sabres.

Oh, not that Satan?

(had to get that in to loosen things up)

[Yinnyth]

The reason i will not get the new items is because i don't know if they will be outdated in a month.

And how do you intend to get the newer, better weapons without the delve weapons? Your effort will not have been wasted. It's like saying "I'm afraid of getting to level 99 because they're probably just going to raise the level cap again soon."

[Alpheus]

They probably implemented this huge spike in firepower as an alternative to raising the level cap actually. Except that prob wasn't going to do it on it's own so they decided to scrap the lvl cap part and just implemented a bunch of powerful weapons and armor (DEF rating wise)

That being said I dislike how they are going about this but I do agree with what they are trying to achieve. It's the degree with which they are handling this that has me unsettled.

[Asymptotic]

So why exactly did everyone complain about Salvage 2 sidegrades again?
.

Most of the people who complained about Salvage 2 were people with no mathematical grasp on FFXI (or Blue Mages)


And how do you intend to get the newer, better weapons without the delve weapons? Your effort will not have been wasted. It's like saying "I'm afraid of getting to level 99 because they're probably just going to raise the level cap again soon."

The people who are complaining do not want this - they do not want to do X event in order to do Y event in order to do Z event

They want to be able to freely choose which content they participate in based on their current needs and enjoyment level from the content

The gear treadmill model employed by other MMOs will not work in FFXI - it's not what the majority of the players want


AND AGAIN - no one intelligent is complaining about new strong gear - but when you release weapons with double the strength of weapons that people took hundreds of real hours of manpower to build in the course of a one-month period you can expect that people are going to short circuit

[Damane]

Can you truly not see the difference between a Level cap increase from 75 to 99 completely replacing armor, and whats going on now?

Lets put this out of the way. I do get your point, But Its not that we want sidegrades, Its that we want our armor to actually be something, our weapons to mean something. With this design direction, there is 0 attachment to your weapons. IDK About you, But I've invested years into my character, and I've come to cherish some of its possessions. I still have my Carbuncle's Pole cause of its sentimental value, though i never expected it to remain tops... i mean, each and every armor i work hard for I work that hard knowing that its going to mean something for me for some time.

I hate tossing armor, and while i know its going to happen eventually in an MMO, FFXI always had that sense of Longevity that i enjoyed about it, its why i kept coming back to this game. If i took a break for 2-3 Months, when I come back, how far back am i going to be? am i going to have to grind 5-6 Events to get the armor to participate in the event they're outdating next week? Will i have to leech?

While i appreciate and in the past even asked for more upgrades, I didn't want the "Evil Genie" to turn this into a gear-ladder geargrinding Generic MMO.

Moving on, Lets try not to neglect the other 8-9 Years previous to Abyssea where Armor not getting outdated was still pretty status Quot. Armada Hauberk and Byakko's Haidate were still the best things in the world at 75 cap even post Salvage, and Salvage introduced arguably the best gear since Kings. I'm not saying I <3 Kings or anything, But I'm saying I and many like me chose this game, or grew used to the design idea of gear having solid longevity, even if it was a year, or two, you grew pretty comfortable your achievement meant something.

Now whats your achievement? a stepping stone to an event thats already been replaced by another event two weeks ago. Its not that armor is getting outdated, its the speed in which they're out-dating it, it does not fit FFXI, and never has. Even during Abyssea, Empyrean+1~+2 Armor held strongly as the best stuff even well into 99.



The more you distort and misunderstand our views the more foolish your argument becomes.

Edit: Oh, and... Satan's going ice-skating.



I agree. While some high-End LS's do exist (I don't judge Hi-End by the amount of hair on ones neck), Point systems simply do not work out for anyone except sack holders, LS leaders, and people who server hop after getting what they want >_>.

I actually prefer the oposite, Sidegrades at 75 were becomeing stale and abyssea made a cut and fresh start by makeign everything else obsolete. I liked it alot, even tough alot of my old gear got trashed and my relic weapon too (until the 95 and 99 upgrade boosts were introduced). It was somethign new something fresh and everyon could participate.

I dont mind the new cut in adoulin. Infact I find it refreshing VW is now what almost 2 years old and legion 1.5 years? I dont mind haveing now newer or better gear after 2 years, besides not everything got wasted. It would be tough a bit too much if they would do it every 3 months, but I think delve introduced a nice way where weaposn and gear go and I think what will follow now for ~2 years is sidegrades of delve armor/weapons.

[Splinters]

As it stands, the functions of the instruments and shields (High -MDT%, ~100% block rate, +Songs, etc.) are still the best you can ask for in regards to that slot/job. Weapons on the other hand... What's going to do more?

Chant du Cygne with Almace 99?
or
Vorpal Blade with DMG:130, STR+13, Accuracy+25, Attack+25, and "Double Attack"+3%?



As long as I can off-hand this sword and main-hand my Almace I will still smile at my CDC damage. I agree that 2h'ers got a little screwed with the upgrades and don't get me started on the biggest nerf in game history if you are on a pet job.

[Asymptotic]

I dont mind the new cut in adoulin. Infact I find it refreshing VW is now what almost 2 years old and legion 1.5 years? I dont mind haveing now newer or better gear after 2 years, besides not everything got wasted. It would be tough a bit too much if they would do it every 3 months, but I think delve introduced a nice way where weaposn and gear go and I think what will follow now for ~2 years is sidegrades of delve armor/weapons.

Actually what they said is they'd inevitably adjust the content for the players who follow the top players in the new content (because when you're releasing 243 dmg great katanas you have to release new content that people with 243 damage great katanas will be challenged by - the next "content level")

Delve is the "next content level" above Skirmish|Salvage2|NNI etc

In one content level we jump from D55 daggers to D108 '~'

[Byrth]

As long as I can off-hand this sword and main-hand my Almace I will still smile at my CDC damage. I agree that 2h'ers got a little screwed with the upgrades and don't get me started on the biggest nerf in game history if you are on a pet job.

This isn't right for a few reasons:

1) The described Sword is so much better than a 99 Almace that you would do more damage single-wielding it than Dual Wielding it with a pre-patch sword.

2) There exists a similar club that's D130 as well, and BLU can use it. This opens up the possibility of doing Club/Sword and using Realmrazer. Let that sink in for a sec. It's entirely possible that BLU's best easy-to-obtain combination is Club/Sword.

3) 2H users didn't get screwed. The easiest weapons to obtain come from collecting 30k Plasm and crush most/all RME. When 2H jobs obtain one of these weapons, it applies to 100% of their damage. 1H users have to sacrifice Dual Wield as described above or try to Dual Wield two new weapons (which either requires 60k Plasm for two weapon types or 30k plasm and a much harder to obtain/more expensive drop). The average 1H users is going to take a DPS hit relative to 2 handers compared to the pre-patch balance. Monk is an exception, because their 1H weapon is on both hands.

[SpankWustler]

AND AGAIN - no one intelligent is complaining about new strong gear - but when you release weapons with double the strength of weapons that people took hundreds of real hours of manpower to build in the course of a one-month period you can expect that people are going to short circuit

This sums up the main thrust behind a lot of the doubts really well. It's not that the new equipment is strong, or stronger than current options, it's that the new weapons in particular are ridiculously strong compared to anything and everything.

Outmatching current super-weapons is just the tip of the iceberg. The new weapons are ridiculously strong to the point that one-handed melee should consider single-wielding whatever new weapon they get or off-handing something weird in order to use two of the new weapons. The new weapons are strong enough that pet damage and magic damage will soon be even more marginalized.

This is a really bold move and I want to see what the Development Bros are building, but with the new weapons being so crazy-retarded-super-duper and no other significant change being made...right now the construct feels like a half-finished staircase that we can climb just to sit at the top and look down into the abyss.

[bryangelos]

And how do you intend to get the newer, better weapons without the delve weapons? Your effort will not have been wasted. It's like saying "I'm afraid of getting to level 99 because they're probably just going to raise the level cap again soon."

If you actually read my post you will see i don't intend to do new content. I don't know any other way of putting it except i don't like the "your gear is outdated every update model". And to use your example if every update they raised the level cap and we were around lvl 1k right now, i most likely would of quit because that sounds boring.

To add to why i don't like the model its because it makes doing all old content pointless except doing it for the sake of doing it. Like many others have pointed out its not about my gear being the best, if this is there new model in 3 months of me not playing i wouldn't even have gear good enough to do new events. Current 99 weapons compared to delve weapons is like comparing a level 10 gtk to a 99 masa...

[Vinedrai]

they have really crossed the line this time. abyssea gear was a big jump too but not as steep, not even close. some of the new armors are reasonable upgrades while others are sidegrades or maybe even worse but those weapons... ugh... i only have a 90 empy and no relic or mythic but even i feel trolled by the devs with this ridiculously vertical weapon progression. until today we were still talking about how powerful the naakul weapons were and look at them now. they are already outshined in two months and most people didn't even get to fight them seriously at all.

please, if you still have some faith in your own game, keep FFXI as FFXI. we loved the game for its mostly unique item and character progression mechanics. we haven't been around for years to see the game being seemingly broken one day overnight. when abyssea was announced there was a similar rage and SE did lose many subs but at least those equipments lasted several years and are still pretty strong for the most part and were much easier to keep up for the new direction for the game of being more casual friendly.

those weapons didnt even last 3 months this time and even worse, the new armors dont even come close to the item level of the new weapons, not to mention there are only a few exciting pieces for the mages. so there is not even any balance in this update itself. if you don't wanna turn this into a crappy ftp korean mmo, lean back and think again... please.

[Umichi]

You obviously haven't been in a high end LS recently.



1) Airlixir +2s cost something like 100k Plasma and they're used to augment armors. Even if they can be bought with Plasma, will they actually be buyable that way? I don't know, but it wouldn't impact any of the issues I raised if they were.
2) They're the same models as the weapons that drop from the new Bee, Shark, and T-rex on the overworld Wildskeeper Reives. The Delve bosses are a Bee, Shark, and T-rex. It's a fact that's just awaiting confirmation at this point.
3) That's true. Still, how would the drop rate being higher negate what I said?


Yes. I can. Even if the drop rate is fairly high, it's still going to be luck-based whether or not it drops to your alliance and whether or not you win the lot. The content is almost certainly going to be difficult because even the NQ NMs on the overworld are pretty hard right now.



Not nearly to the same degree. At all. You're talking about farming 17,000 items that drops ~2.5/kill (Relic), 30,000 items that give ~100/run (Mythic), or ~175 items that drop ~1.5/kill (Empyrean). Those are just a matter of preparedness and directing all your resources towards the goal for the job you like. The new system is just a matter of going in with your alliance, and if it drops then maybe you lot it and gear your dragoon. Why would you do that? Well, because if you get that polearm then Dragoon can easily become your best DD job.

Drg is my best DD job whm is my second job thats ever even reach 90's

[MarkovChain]

they had their place, especially back in 36x people dynamis... if you don't know what I'm talking about, you probably weren't there.


Edit: Also sky linkshells, pretty much any real content pre ToAU and somewhat ToAU/WotG (If you remember Ixion farming...)
I was there and that's why I say they don't work. Most of those shells where an army of gimps with 3-4 ppl knowing wtf to do and the other were leeching. I remember a group 6-manning everything in sky and that's how it should be done - instead you had point systems LSs that got destroyed everytime a dedicated player got his byakko. Point systems in dynamis didn't work because you always had an idiot willing to farm their gimp windy AF instead of xarc or beaucedine. Limbus was the worst thing to do with points. I've had like 4 of them and didn't get what I wanted... because only like one piece of nashira didn't suck ?

Trust me the best of all system is everything free lot with small limits on the kind of thing you can lot etc. Point system destroy LSs, they make people leave once they get stuff, they make other ragequit for another LS etc. The simple idea of points implies that it going to fail because it implicitely assumes that dedication will vary a lot which shouldn't be happening for your "LS" to work. Guess why almost all players with top notch gear have one or several accounts ?

[MarkovChain]

3) 2H users didn't get screwed. The easiest weapons to obtain come from collecting 30k Plasm and crush most/all RME. When 2H jobs obtain one of these weapons, it applies to 100% of their damage. 1H users have to sacrifice Dual Wield as described above or try to Dual Wield two new weapons (which either requires 60k Plasm for two weapon types or 30k plasm and a much harder to obtain/more expensive drop). The average 1H users is going to take a DPS hit relative to 2 handers compared to the pre-patch balance. Monk is an exception, because their 1H weapon is on both hands.

I didn't crunch numbers but I'm under the impression that increasing the weapon's damage has a minor effect on all 100% mod WS (what else would you use anyway ?) while they greatly affect melee hits. Going to guess post patch DDs are going to be mainly DOT including SAMs and DRKS or WARs. I don't think x hit build make sense still.

[Yinnyth]

To add to why i don't like the model its because it makes doing all old content pointless except doing it for the sake of doing it.

Actually, that's the point I was specifically trying to address. Sorry if I did it clumsily. I'm trying to say that old content is not worthless because it's the previous step. You're not going to go into delve with perle gear and a level 75 weapon. In their current state, level 99 relics are still not worthless. You can use them to get yourself a naakual or skirmish weapon, then you can use those to get a delve weapon.

Old events are not pointless, they're a pre-amble.

And apologies again for saying "you". I know "you" in the singular sense of the word will not be doing any of this. I mean "you" as in "anyone reading this".

[Demon6324236]

Actually, that's the point I was specifically trying to address. Sorry if I did it clumsily. I'm trying to say that old content is not worthless because it's the previous step. You're not going to go into delve with perle gear and a level 75 weapon. In their current state, level 99 relics are still not worthless. You can use them to get yourself a naakual or skirmish weapon, then you can use those to get a delve weapon.True to a point, the crafted ones can be picked up with or without doing Delve personally, which means if I want to out DD a Rag99 DRK, I need a few mil to go buy myself the new GS, and I will thrash them in DPS. That exact same reason is why Relics are falling in general, look at the buyable weapons, there is a GA and a GS, both of which are the best of their class and can be picked up without touching Delve personally, so you can completely skip some steps if you have the money.

[Yinnyth]

True to a point, the crafted ones can be picked up with or without doing Delve personally, which means if I want to out DD a Rag99 DRK, I need a few mil to go buy myself the new GS, and I will thrash them in DPS. That exact same reason is why Relics are falling in general, look at the buyable weapons, there is a GA and a GS, both of which are the best of their class and can be picked up without touching Delve personally, so you can completely skip some steps if you have the money.

Current Rag99 DRK, yes. Once they add upgrades for relics, who knows?

[Zumi]

Current Rag99 DRK, yes. Once they add upgrades for relics, who knows?

It's a big "if" at this point. They might not have enough manpower.

Here is hoping they come out with some more concrete plan.

[Mahoro]

Limbus was the worst thing to do with points. I've had like 4 of them and didn't get what I wanted... because only like one piece of nashira didn't suck ?

Trust me the best of all system is everything free lot with small limits on the kind of thing you can lot etc. Point system destroy LSs, they make people leave once they get stuff, they make other ragequit for another LS etc. The simple idea of points implies that it going to fail because it implicitely assumes that dedication will vary a lot which shouldn't be happening for your "LS" to work. Guess why almost all players with top notch gear have one or several accounts ?

How is "everything free lot" better than points systems in something like Limbus which, as you posted, only has one piece that doesn't suck? Everyone will /seacom that one piece. This is what I see when people form Prov groups or Legion groups or Odin v2 groups. Once people cap out on the common stuff like Plenitas Virgas or Ngen Seraweels, the majority of people will /seacom 1-2 pieces in each, and eventually there is freelotting congestion. In addition, "people leaving once they get stuff" is pretty endemic to /seacom groups as well, in fact quite more so. Why stay in a freelotting group once you have everything? It's not like you're gaining points for future unreleased items.

If each Delve Boss NM only drops a few superweapons and takes a full alliance, get ready for more homogenized /seacoms. If you go with a /shout alliance, as you proposed a few pages ago, you will be continually refreshing your pool of competition anew each night while not increasing your odds to a significant degree. This isn't necessarily a bad thing, mind you. I hope the content has a long and healthy /shout life. I like meeting new people when I join /shout groups. But it isn't the only way to accomplish your goals.

Some LS's use point systems just fine. The ones that I've seen work limit bids in some fashion so that one person sitting on a mass of points can't outlot everyone. Points are tracked across multiple events instead of per event, so that spending in one event affects lotting in other events, which makes people prioritize and reduces congestion.

[Yinnyth]

A quick look back on the last expansion series which caused a "similar" uproar.

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/17773-Newest-interview-(abyssea-was-a-mistake-)

[Crimson_Slasher]

There is always people who dislike content in ffxi. Unlike abuseia, this change is very very very drastic. To the point of insanity and teeth grinding frustration. We enjoy incrimental upgrades, however the incriment suddently changing so rapidly, well it seems to have the vocal minority (or perhaps majority in this instance?) suffering from system-shock and some of us are starting to understand what sort of dehibilitating effect PTSD has on someone.

Now for those whom claim that abyssea did this to us, lets compare 5 weapons shall we?

Bravura 75 (dmg: 99)

Vermeil Bhuj (dmg: 104, net gain of 5, introduced at nose end of abyssea, after a 5 level incriment)

Widowmaker (dmg: 124, net gain of 20, after 10 level incriment at the tail end of abyssea)

Bravura 99 (dmg: 158, 9 level incriment from widowmaker, net gain of 34 dmg but on one of the ultimate weapons, king of the hill for base great-axe damage.)

RazorFury NQ (dmg: 259, no level increase, net gain of 101 damage, which is a bit less than 2/3rds the damage of the prior ultimate weapon, from a crafted source, HQ variant also availible.)

So the incriments comparing a relic, and some availible weapons went: 5 > 20 > 34 > 101. Thats a rather steep incline in you ask me, even if we pull up all the top damage weapons by each update, and older level ranges, and made a chart, i bet this last upgrade would be well off the paper, putting a hole in the roof. This in my opinion is a travesty and a mistake.

[bryangelos]

Actually, that's the point I was specifically trying to address. Sorry if I did it clumsily. I'm trying to say that old content is not worthless because it's the previous step. You're not going to go into delve with perle gear and a level 75 weapon. In their current state, level 99 relics are still not worthless. You can use them to get yourself a naakual or skirmish weapon, then you can use those to get a delve weapon.

Old events are not pointless, they're a pre-amble.

And apologies again for saying "you". I know "you" in the singular sense of the word will not be doing any of this. I mean "you" as in "anyone reading this".

I understand in theory, but lets be real if i'm a new player started today are you going to tell me to go make a 99 weapon to do delve with? or are you gonna tell me to buy a ah weapon which already beats a 99 R/E/M? my guess is to farm money buy the ah one over spending months making a inferior weapon. The only content you are suggesting is worth doing is SOA making ALL old content not worth doing. If this is the new trend that SE is going to follow in 6 months delve could not be worth doing, and a ah item could be better then the delve equipment. The problem i have with this model is it punishes you for doing old content by giving you shitty rewards, and the only content worth doing is the newest content.

To go off of what you said your right you wouldn't use pearl gear and a 75 weapon, but take a look at ah gear and the new SOA equipment you can get with balyd. Not to bad of gear, and for a weapon lets get ourselves a Tomonari +1 and bam, i have a job fairly well geared with a good weapon without steping foot into old content. (assuming i have gil or friends to help me buy it) Then i take my shiny new gear and weapons into delve.

[Asymptotic]

Actually, that's the point I was specifically trying to address. Sorry if I did it clumsily. I'm trying to say that old content is not worthless because it's the previous step. You're not going to go into delve with perle gear and a level 75 weapon. In their current state, level 99 relics are still not worthless. You can use them to get yourself a naakual or skirmish weapon, then you can use those to get a delve weapon.

Old events are not pointless, they're a pre-amble.

And apologies again for saying "you". I know "you" in the singular sense of the word will not be doing any of this. I mean "you" as in "anyone reading this".


Alternatively you can skip the whole process spend an hour kiting a Delve NM around with BLMs SMNs and CORs


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32078748/Pioneers/ffxi_2013.05.01_02.06.58.png
"2004 called - it wants its turtle back"





until it drops dead of exhaustion and not spend the 200m for RME99 and then gain access to weapons that outclass 99 RME for 4-5hours worth of content


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32078748/Pioneers/ffxi_2013.05.01_02.16.19.png
231 damage great axe sup I am 1/10 of the way from buying you and I have done your event twice

Which is what people will do in reality land

Seriously - I know you really want the whole "stepping stone" thing the devs have fed you to work out but it's not going to work out (look at the lukewarm reception for Meebles - that was designed to be a "Stepping Stone" event) and continuing to defend it just makes you sound naive and moronic

Sorry bro - it's just not how the world works

tldr

http://memecrunch.com/meme/DLJJ/stop-trying-to-make-fetch-happen/image.png

Put it this way - "Skirmish" is now a training wheels event
Before the update JPs on my server shouted constantly for Skirmish
Since the update - all silent on the Skirmish front

Because seriously - why would anyone bother with 10+m entry fees on Skirmish for "training weapons"

[Crusader81]

http://i40.tinypic.com/5aq4g2.jpg

http://i42.tinypic.com/n2mutx.jpg

http://i44.tinypic.com/34ni5ab.jpg

Funny thing is while all the new weapons blew everything else into the trash the new armor is barely an upgrade

[Yinnyth]

The problem i have with this model is it punishes you for doing old content by giving you shitty rewards, and the only content worth doing is the newest content.

Do you bemoan the fact that AF1 weapons are no longer worthwhile ways to spend your time? Does the fact that Joyeuse doesn't hold as much sway as it used to upset you? These are once useful items consumed by the unending flow of time. The game is heading a new direction. I'm sorry you won't be here to see it. Change is frightening, but one does not jump out a 10th-story window when someone claims that one of the fire alarms has triggered on the ground level.

And any true person who loves this game will continue to pay. If you don't pay, there will be no change, there will be only death. So thank you for hastening that demise by ceasing to fund this project, then lingering around as long as you can on these forums letting the rest of us know to abandon ship. I apologize. I am being unfair. Good luck to you in your future endeavors. Please leave me and everyone else who still enjoys and funds this game in peace.

[Yinnyth]

Alternatively you can skip the whole process spend an hour kiting a Delve NM around with BLMs SMNs and CORs


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32078748/Pioneers/ffxi_2013.05.01_02.06.58.png
"2004 called - it wants its turtle back"





until it drops dead of exhaustion and not spend the 200m for RME99 and then gain access to weapons that outclass 99 RME for 4-5hours worth of content


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32078748/Pioneers/ffxi_2013.05.01_02.16.19.png
231 damage great axe sup I am 1/10 of the way from buying you and I have done your event twice

Which is what people will do in reality land

Seriously - I know you really want the whole "stepping stone" thing the devs have fed you to work out but it's not going to work out (look at the lukewarm reception for Meebles - that was designed to be a "Stepping Stone" event) and continuing to defend it just makes you sound naive and moronic

Sorry bro - it's just not how the world works

tldr

http://memecrunch.com/meme/DLJJ/stop-trying-to-make-fetch-happen/image.png

Put it this way - "Skirmish" is now a training wheels event
Before the update JPs on my server shouted constantly for Skirmish
Since the update - all silent on the Skirmish front

Because seriously - why would anyone bother with 10+m entry fees on Skirmish for "training weapons"

Oh, how hard was it to get your delve weapons? Please go on.

I just finished getting my last one last night, and now I'm done with delve and I won the game.

edit: that's sarcasm, I'm sorry again. What I'm trying to say is you're judgining a book by its cover. You have yet to immerse yourself in it, yet you judge it. To be fair, I am no better. I am also judging it. But there are several people here who say they will no longer fund the project I love because they're scared of the direction it's taking without fully comprehending it. Rubbish.

[bryangelos]

Do you bemoan the fact that AF1 weapons are no longer worthwhile ways to spend your time? Does the fact that Joyeuse doesn't hold as much sway as it used to upset you? These are once useful items consumed by the unending flow of time. The game is heading a new direction. I'm sorry you won't be here to see it. Change is frightening, but one does not jump out a 10th-story window when someone claims that one of the fire alarms has triggered on the ground level.

And any true person who loves this game will continue to pay. If you don't pay, there will be no change, there will be only death. So thank you for hastening that demise by ceasing to fund this project, then lingering around as long as you can on these forums letting the rest of us know to abandon ship. I apologize. I am being unfair. Good luck to you in your future endeavors. Please leave me and everyone else who still enjoys and funds this game in peace.

You still fail to see the point, enjoy delve because doing anything else is a waste of time. The event is easy, kill 1 NM farm items and bam you have your new super gear. You can stop pretending like old content is a stepping stone, and yes you bring up childish arguments like joytoy, but prior to SOA was there only 1 event worth doing? i myself was doing dynamis/legion/limbus/ein/ADL/sky farming for money/salv v1/v2.

And doesn't it upset you that delve weapons are the ONLY weapons worth getting almost? prior to delve you still had people getting lots of other weapons. I mean sure joytoy was replaced with magian weapons, but lets take a look at that time era. My joytoy isn't as good so i can do magian, i can make a emp/relic/mythic, i can do abyssea for other rare/ex weapons off nms, i can go to the ah and buy a weapon which would be better as well. Jump to 2013 right now and hmmm outside of delve weapons i'm hard pressed to think of where i can go to get weapons that keep up with them any ideas for me?

[Triffle]

Oh, how hard was it to get your delve weapons? Please go on.

I just finished getting my last one last night, and now I'm done with delve and I won the game.

edit: that's sarcasm, I'm sorry agian. What I'm trying to say is you're judgining a book by its cover. You have yet to immerse yourself in it, yet you judge it. To be fair, I am no better. I am also judging it. But there are several people here who say they will no longer fund the project I love because they're scared of the direction it's taking without fully comprehending it. Rubbish.

It's not hard to get the content, the only thing that you'll want to go further in Delve is for augments and maybe crafting mats for the AH weapons.

[Yinnyth]

You can stop pretending like old content is a stepping stone, and yes you bring up childish arguments like joytoy

Sir, what have I done to offend you so? Why do you dismiss my arguments as childish? What do you think of a person who compares your intelligence to that of a child?

You have already made your decision and there is nothing I can do about it besides berate you because I wish for people to still see the good in this game I enjoy. You linger like a cancer. Not content to die off and leave its host body yourself, you wish to kill off other subscribers.

Can you not see why I would be so defensive against persons like yourself? Think of something you've enjoyed for the past 8 years. Now imagine that I've also enjoyed it for the past 8 years. Now imagine I no longer enjoy it even though you still do. Now imagine I'm talking smack about that thing you still enjoy, yet I no longer take part in.

[Richwood]

Alternatively you can skip the whole process spend an hour kiting a Delve NM around with BLMs SMNs and CORs


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32078748/Pioneers/ffxi_2013.05.01_02.06.58.png
"2004 called - it wants its turtle back"





until it drops dead of exhaustion and not spend the 200m for RME99 and then gain access to weapons that outclass 99 RME for 4-5hours worth of content


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/32078748/Pioneers/ffxi_2013.05.01_02.16.19.png
231 damage great axe sup I am 1/10 of the way from buying you and I have done your event twice

Which is what people will do in reality land

Seriously - I know you really want the whole "stepping stone" thing the devs have fed you to work out but it's not going to work out (look at the lukewarm reception for Meebles - that was designed to be a "Stepping Stone" event) and continuing to defend it just makes you sound naive and moronic

Sorry bro - it's just not how the world works

tldr

http://memecrunch.com/meme/DLJJ/stop-trying-to-make-fetch-happen/image.png

Put it this way - "Skirmish" is now a training wheels event
Before the update JPs on my server shouted constantly for Skirmish
Since the update - all silent on the Skirmish front

Because seriously - why would anyone bother with 10+m entry fees on Skirmish for "training weapons"

Good to see Sylow from Fenrir is not just an butt-nugget on ffxiah forums but here as well. yes the old content is a semi stepping stone. as in order for people to get the wins in higher content they wont do it in crap gear for most part. But all I see happening is a bunch of players (nubs) who do not want to waste that time and effort in older content paying mercs to take them and and get the titles. The game is just becoming turn and burn content, there is no way around it. even if they do update REMs which I hope they do soon, what is the point? Once gear starts to become way above and beyond any current content in the game, example in some Cor kiting a damn turtle around for 3 hours. Unless Se plans to revamp all that we know with this new expansion I just do not see where it is going.

[bryangelos]

Sir, what have I done to offend you so? Why do you dismiss my arguments as childish? What do you think of a person who compares your intelligence to that of a child?

You have already made your decision and there is nothing I can do about it besides berate you because I wish for people to still see the good in this game I enjoy. You linger like a cancer. Not content to die off and leave its host body yourself, you wish to kill off other subscribers.

Can you not see why I would be so defensive against persons like yourself? Think of something you've enjoyed for the past 8 years. Now imagine that I've also enjoyed it for the past 8 years. Now imagine I no longer enjoy it even though you still do. Now imagine I'm talking smack about that thing you still enjoy, yet I no longer take part in.

So what your saying is your happiness is more important then mine? If you go back and re read my posts you will see i said i canceled my account and will not return if they continue to go down this path. I enjoyed the fact i had lots of content to do and that kept me busy and happy, i'm not happy with how the game is doing now.

I'm sorry if i'm not thinking of how this effects you and the game YOU enjoy. Also last i checked this was the only place i could tell the dev team how i feel about the direction the game is going.

[Yinnyth]

Good to see Sylow from Fenrir is not just an butt-nugget on ffxiah forums but here as well. yes the old content is a semi stepping stone.

These personal attacks do very little to further a good cause. Although I agree with your overall message, I must state my displeasure with your personal attack on my behalf (though I doubt that's what drove you to it, I still feel responsible.)

[Yinnyth]

So what your saying is your happiness is more important then mine? If you go back and re read my posts you will see i said i canceled my account and will not return if they continue to go down this path. I enjoyed the fact i had lots of content to do and that kept me busy and happy, i'm not happy with how the game is doing now.

I'm sorry if i'm not thinking of how this effects you and the game YOU enjoy.

Like I said: You've made your decision, and there is nothing I can do to change it. But do you tableflip a Monopoly game, then stick around to harass the people who are still trying to play it? Let us have our fun. You've already left.

Edit: But I'll give you a $500 bill and my deed to Park Place if you want back in and agree to behave yourself.

[Richwood]

These personal attacks do very little to further a good cause. Although I agree with your overall message, I must state my displeasure with your personal attack on my behalf (though I doubt that's what drove you to it, I still feel responsible.)

I apologize and admire your attitude. For myself I am just a little rough around the edges and do not mind kicking and biting, lo. (*^.^*)

[Yinnyth]

I apologize and admire your attitude. For myself I am just a little rough around the edges and do not mind kicking and biting, lo. (*^.^*)

I must admit, I find it hard to maintain a demeanor such as this, but for FFXI's sake, I do my best. I am always glad to have others on the same side of the argument as myself though.

[bryangelos]

Like I said: You've made your decision, and there is nothing I can do to change it. But do you tableflip a Monopoly game, then stick around to harass the people who are still trying to play it? Let us have our fun. You've already left.

Edit: But I'll give you a $500 bill and my deed to Park Place if you want back in and agree to behave yourself.

READ WHAT I SAID. I will continue to keep playing this game IF se changes back to the model they have kept for the past 10 years, that is why i linger. I say what i do so se can see my displeasure and choose to listen or choose to ignore me, however i'm not going to pip down and keep quite because it displeases you.

[Yinnyth]

READ WHAT I SAID. I will continue to keep playing this game IF se changes back to the model they have kept for the past 10 years, that is why i linger. I say what i do so se can see my displeasure and choose to listen or choose to ignore me, however i'm not going to pip down and keep quite because it displeases you.


I'm quitting.

Sorry, did I miss something?

[bryangelos]

Well i just canceled my account and if they continue to go down this path, i will not return.

And FYI SE

I have been playing since 2005 and have a 99 aegis, 99 masa, 90 ochain, 90 almace, 85 kannagi, 85 twashtar and i have two accounts. So you lost a long term player paying for 2 accounts.

yes you did

[Yinnyth]

So you've quit, and you won't return. No, I haven't missed anything.

Edit: You've stopped paying SE. This is the biggest thing I'm taking offense to: You no longer pay them, yet I still do, and you think your word should be worth as much- nay, HALF as much as mine is? I'm still paying them despite the fact they've overlooked every suggestion I've ever given. You stopped paying them and expect them to make expensive changes on your behalf. Logical.

No, you're complaining and expect them to use my money to make changes you want. You're no longer willing to fund the project. Stop telling other people to do the same.

[MarkovChain]

You're not going to go into delve with perle gear and a level 75 weapon. .
Why that ? Did you try delve a little ? I did some NM with top notch gear and a party of 6 and it raged at 80% (very easy to tank on monk, just too much HP and damage taken -). An army of perle DD would do as good because once it rages you can't do anything. The only reason people are killing mobs right now is that PLDs can hold them easily (DD can't because they can't deal dmg) while all the other DDs in the team so SA ws. It's not skill and doesn't resuire excellent gear by any mean. A player that returns today should farm bayld gear, get a nakkual weapon and go into delve.

[bryangelos]

So you've quit, and you won't return. No, I haven't missed anything.

so you know for a fact that se will continue down this path? (the every update old gear is completely replaced)

I only ask this because if you don't know this for a fact your reading comprehension is low.

edited my spelling error just for you yinnyth

[Yinnyth]

so you know for a fact that se will continue down this path? (the every update old gear is completely replaced)

I only ask this because if you don't know this for a fact your reading compression is low.

Then I should find a reading compressor.

Edit: sorry, I'm being unfair again. That was a low blow from me. I want you to know that I HAVE read every letter of every word you've posted in this thread, and I still disagree with your stance.

[bryangelos]

So you've quit, and you won't return. No, I haven't missed anything.

Edit: You've stopped paying SE. This is the biggest thing I'm taking offense to: You no longer pay them, yet I still do, and you think your word should be worth as much- nay, HALF as much as mine is? I'm still paying them despite the fact they've overlooked every suggestion I've ever given. You stopped paying them and expect them to make expensive changes on your behalf. Logical.

No, you're complaining and expect them to use my money to make changes you want. You're no longer willing to fund the project. Stop telling other people to do the same.

since you did a ninja edit after i replied, it is logical. If i continue to pay them and don't play why would they listen to me? they are still getting what they want MY MONEY. This is a company after all i mean the CEO is stepping down because they are losing profits so if i stop giving them my money and others do as well, it forces them to listen to what we want.

[Yinnyth]

since you did a ninja edit after i replied, it is logical. If i continue to pay them and don't play why would they listen to me? they are still getting what they want MY MONEY. This is a company after all i mean the CEO is stepping down because they are losing profits so if i stop giving them my money and others do as well, it forces them to listen to what we want.

Oh? I apologize, it appears I did misunderstand you after all. I took:


I'm quitting.

As meaning that you were cancelling your account(s). This is my mistake, I apologize for all my previous posts.

[bryangelos]

Then I should find a reading compressor.

Edit: sorry, I'm being unfair again. That was a low blow from me. I want you to know that I HAVE read every letter of every word you've posted in this thread, and I still disagree with your stance.

Its fine for you to disagree with my stance, however you seem to have a problem with my stance saying my opinion isn't as valued as yours.

[bryangelos]

Oh? I apologize, it appears I did misunderstand you after all. I took:



As meaning that you were cancelling your account(s). This is my mistake, I apologize for all my previous posts.

i did cancel my accounts after the update in protest of the new direction, and the quote you keep using saying i'm quitting was in response to someone responding to my initial post about my displeasure on the new direction, and out of context as i never just posted "I'm quitting"

[Yinnyth]

Its fine for you to disagree with my stance, however you seem to have a problem with my stance saying my opinion isn't as valued as yours.

Yes, yes, this was my mistake, and I am sorry for it. I read too much into the words you typed and assumed you had cancelled your FFXI account(s), and I was offended that a person who no longer pays for FFXI would suggest changes to it. It is my belief that if you want something to change, the least you can do is help fund those changes. It seems I got a little too hot-headed there, and I am embarassed for my actions, yet glad that you still have (an) active account(s).

Edit: Thank you for the above clarification as to the status of your accounts. Good day, sir.

Edit edit:


The reason i will not get the new items is because i don't know if they will be outdated in a month. I got the weapons i did thinking they would be the best or at least very close to the best. If you read my quote i said if they continue down this path. The path i'm referring to is making all old content obsolete and just new content is worth doing.

I know you might say well i can still do old content, but i didn't do dynamis everyday because i enjoyed it, i did it to get the best weapons. At this time the only content i see worth doing is delve and that is not enough to keep me playing, and like most like to point out, "if you don't like it quit, every MMO outdates all gear" well i thought ff11 had 1 slot they wouldn't and since i was wrong i'm taking the advice of others. I'm quitting.

You are correct, you did not just make one post which said nothing but "I'm quitting." This does not alter the fact that you have pulled all of your support from our cause yet still have the audacity to tell us how to spend our money.

[Tamoa]

I'd say take it to PMs, but unfortunately there's no PM function on this forum.

[Yinnyth]

I'd say take it to PMs, but unfortunately there's no PM function on this forum.

I would have done so long ago because no one in their right mind would read that exchange between the two of us. I really do wish these forums had that function.

[bryangelos]

Yes, yes, this was my mistake, and I am sorry for it. I read too much into the words you typed and assumed you had cancelled your FFXI account(s), and I was offended that a person who no longer pays for FFXI would suggest changes to it. It is my belief that if you want something to change, the least you can do is help fund those changes. It seems I got a little too hot-headed there, and I am embarassed for my actions, yet glad that you still have (an) active account(s).

Edit: Thank you for the above clarification as to the status of your accounts. Good day, sir.

Edit edit:



You are correct, you did not just make one post which said nothing but "I'm quitting." This does not alter the fact that you have pulled all of your support from our cause yet still have the audacity to tell us how to spend our money.

I played this game since 2005 and have an active account for 20+ more days, get outta here with your all mighty stance of only yours matters. I have just as much of a right to say i don't like the direction of the game as you do to say you like the direction of the game. Also give me a break with this our cause and how to spend our money bs unless you work for se.

I'm not going to pay them to do something i disagree with and the only way i know how to show them i don't like it is to post here and cancel my accounts.

[Byrth]

Why that ? Did you try delve a little ? I did some NM with top notch gear and a party of 6 and it raged at 80% (very easy to tank on monk, just too much HP and damage taken -). An army of perle DD would do as good because once it rages you can't do anything. The only reason people are killing mobs right now is that PLDs can hold them easily (DD can't because they can't deal dmg) while all the other DDs in the team so SA ws. It's not skill and doesn't resuire excellent gear by any mean. A player that returns today should farm bayld gear, get a nakkual weapon and go into delve.

This is pretty much true.

[Yinnyth]

I played this game since 2005 and have an active account for 20+ more days, get outta here with your all mighty stance of only yours matters.
My sister and I followed this game since before it was released in Japan. We played it the very day it was released in the US. My accounts remain active, and will be so into the unforseeable future.http://images.bluegartr.com/bucket/gallery/ebb5f3b71633dcf51b73e66ddbc08fff.png
But this is not a contest, and my stance is not the only one that matters. Yours also matters. To an extent. The extent to which you're willing to make it matter. With your wallet. Thank you for your support thus far. It has been a large help, and I appreciate that it has gotten us this far and allowed us to see these changes to the world we love. Should you choose to rejoin us, I will gladly welcome you as my equal, nay, my friend.

Until then, you are actively aiding in the destruction of something I care for. I apologize, but it appears you and I must be enemies in this matter.

[Fredjan]

Seems there's a post from Matsui about this today. I'll wait for the official translation, but I can say this much:

The fact these weapons have such higher base damage is absolutely disgusting. I would've been far more ok with progression on these that actually made sense. DMG jumps that are pretty much doubled for some and increased by over 100 for others isn't progression, it's setting a new bar. The armor is great. The weapons are gamebreaking. I'm fine with gear progression, as long as SE considers what people go through to get things. These new Naakual and crafted weapons (and even the lesser rare/ex weapons) don't consider any of that at all.

The only acceptable RME adjustments is a very significant increase in base damage. Make it require stuff from Delve for all we care. Adjusting the WS's will NOT address it, nor will adjusting the other stats. Only base damage. Just make us feel like we didn't waste all our man-hours, gil, etc. put into these weapons (I personally spent around 250 million on Apocalypse 99 and Ragnarok 99, ~100M in marrows alone). As far as I'm concerned, this update is a slap to everyone who did these, and if they DON'T fix these properly, an even bigger outrage will happen. The only reason we haven't gone that far is because we've been promised an adjustment that "might happen." I'm not even faithful that it'll be done right after what I've seen.

At this point, I have to 'force' myself to log on and the only reason I am is that I enjoy doing things with some people and they're still around. I want to believe the new weapons are fake, I really do, but they are actually implemented in the game with those damage ratings, so at this point, it's not a matter of "believing", as the stats on the rare/ex weapons are accurate. It's a matter of SE addressing the outrage they've caused and addressing it properly.

However, unless I read promises of increasing base damage on all of the weapons across the board, they won't be addressing it properly. Period. No matter what you do to let's say Spharai for example, it's never going to be used over a damage+146 H2H without having a very significant DMG increase.

[hiko]

There's that post that makes me lol again!! Tee-hee-hee.

Honestly, I think less people would be table flipping and rage quitting if upgraded R/M/E were in the dats, even if unobtainable. Gives us something solid to look forward to, like "my relic may be obsolete for now, but I see and am happy with what it can one day be."
QFT but less people would rage quiting if nobody datamined the new weapon (until people start getting the new weapon)


One of the other things in game design that kinda upsets me is that the game went from small group content 6 people, and voidwatch which was easily pugable because it wasn't that hard. To this mega extreme you will die unless you have 18 really hardcore people.

and that exactly the opposite that upseted me with abyssea release, going from LS event to lowman/pug


Again, point missed. Many of us just don't feel motivated to do anything right now, in fear that it will be obsolete soon, after all the hard work we put into new gear.

agree IMO some vertical progression is nice but we get it to fast, most haven't tried WK or skirmish and we already get next step, AND the step are TOO big

I don't mind RME not staying TOP weapon until end of time in their curent state, but they should get an upgrade coming soon after every weapon step up (update n=new best weapon, update n+1 =RME upgrade) while we just got two set of new best weapon + "we might upgrade RME sometime "

[Kojo]

Apparently, Matsui is considering letting people unlock Relic and Empy WSs. So basically... Nothing.

[Mefuki]

The power creep here would be understandable if these new weapons were a little better the REM's followed by REM's getting an update to make THEM a little better again. These weapons are just absurdly powerful. This is power spike not power creep.

I mean, why should I even bother continuing to tediously grind out the gil I need for my Almace for another 4 months (1024 HMP, 10 Cinders so far) when it's just not going to matter? If SE thinks it's a good idea to make REM merely a rung on the gear ladder, with all the months of work you have to put into it, then I don't know what to say.

[Alpheus]

Apparently, Matsui is considering letting people unlock Relic and Empy WSs. So basically... Nothing.

trollolo


Serious: gotta laugh to keep from crying~

[Kojo]

trollolo


Serious: gotta laugh to keep from crying~

People been translating what he said on the JP side for an hour or two now, from the looks of it, they have no idea what they are doing. The "we may not have the manpower" comment is flat out insulting after their switching focus to FFXIV.

[Alpheus]

Or maybe they thought they had resources that for one reason or another they don't anymore. They did lose Phone support due to corporate restructuring. Maybe they had dev team members moved around. At the end of the day tho it is somewhat disheartening that that's their answer so far but I'm aware that maybe it's the only one they can give.

[Kojo]

Honestly, they should've put Delve off and focused on having R/M/E upgrades lined up. They should lock Delve and make this stuff inaccessible till they fix it, and by that, I mean reducing dmg and adjusting Delve to work out with that, as well as boosting R/M/E.

[Alpheus]

I'm more surprised they didn't release more Naakuls first since as another thread put it, Delve makes maintaining Colonization Rates kinda low on the priority list as far as activities to do to further develop your character.

[Toioiz]

Again, I think their logic is that R/M/E can wait, and new content is more important. What they don't understand, is a lot of people think the opposite is true.

Although, if they adjusted R/M/E yesterday, to say, 15 DMG higher, we would all be really super excited, without knowing what they had plans for new content. Now, we at least have a gauge as to what to expect, so when we get our new/better/changed R/M/E weapons, it isn't a OMFGWTF moment for the rest of the player base.

Personally, I would still like them to do slowly incremental upgrades to R/M/E as they introduce new weapons like this, and scale them appropriately, so it isn't "R/M/E first" or "R/M/E last"

[Kojo]

Again, I think their logic is that R/M/E can wait, and new content is more important. What they don't understand, is a lot of people think the opposite is true.

Although, if they adjusted R/M/E yesterday, to say, 15 DMG higher, we would all be really super excited, without knowing what they had plans for new content. Now, we at least have a gauge as to what to expect, so when we get our new/better/changed R/M/E weapons, it isn't a OMFGWTF moment for the rest of the player base.

Personally, I would still like them to do slowly incremental upgrades to R/M/E as they introduce new weapons like this, and scale them appropriately, so it isn't "R/M/E first" or "R/M/E last"

If upgraded relics were in the dats, there'd be less anger, if the Producer HIMSELF didn't doubtfully state that they "may not have the manpower" to boost Relics, there'd be less anger.

[Vivik]

That post just proves that they have no idea what they are doing. How this guy keeps his job as director is beyond me. Hell, I would even take Tanaka back after the shit sandwich we are being fed.

Who comes up with these ideas and why don't they play FFXI? If they did they would realize that most RME holders did not only do the weapons for the WS they also did it to have the highest base damage weapon for their class.

Now I'm not saying they WS are not good because there are quite a few that are. I'm saying that nobody would waste their time obtaining a 99 Relic or Empy for the WS alone and Mythics are completely screwed seeing we have access to the WS already.

Why did they not have a plan in place already for RMEs? Did they forget? I cannot imagine the conversation that took place when this new content was being developed. How did they not include the most dedicated niche of players in the game? It makes me sick just thinking about it.

[Toioiz]

If upgraded relics were in the dats, there'd be less anger, if the Producer HIMSELF didn't doubtfully state that they "may not have the manpower" to boost Relics, there'd be less anger.

I didn't read that they didn't have manpower in the post, what I got out of it was "We want to do this slowly, we always do things slowly, have patience", which isn't much better, but I do question who translated the "we may not have the manpower".