This is a Mythic thread.

[Kojo]

I know everyone has said the same, but Mythics were intended to be the casual player's Relic, yet they've been harder to get since day 1. The Devs will, hopefully, be tweaking with Mythics to add RUN's and GEO's in, so why not fix them and make the base 75 Mythic easier to get while tweaking? Leave the ToTM trials for them as is, but make getting the base easier and make them truly a casual player's Relic.

inb4 comments about me whining or something

[Zumi]

They never said Mythics were a casual players relic. They always been harder then relics to get.

[Demon6324236]

When they were originally announced or released, forgot which, they were supposed to be the casual relic. In all honesty, while I want Mythics to be easier especially because they are right now unreasonably annoying to get and most are not worth the effort for more than a trophy, Emps already filled their spot as the casual relic. I think their effort should at least be on par with a Relic, or a little harder. The price of their "currency" is roughly 4 times as high overall, so when you add on everything else the difficulty is probably 5 to 8 times higher, which to me is far to high...

[Kojo]

They never said Mythics were a casual players relic. They always been harder then relics to get.

They have always been harder to get, true, but IIRC they WERE intended to be a casual player's relic, I believe Sage Sundi said it in an interview somewhere.

[Camiie]

They never said Mythics were a casual players relic.

They did actually.


They always been harder then relics to get.

Yes they have.

[detlef]

Relic and Empyrean weapons are the casual players' relic.

[Taint2]

If Mythics were free (no Alex requirement) they'd still be a pain in the butt to make.

[Zumi]

They did actually.



Do you have a source on that because it seems like something the players thought up themselves.

[Afin]

I thought they said a while back that the 2 new jobs wouldn't be getting relic / emp / mythic, but rather gear that matches that sort of stuff through adoulin? i could be wrong though

[Kojo]

I think it'd be VERY awkward to change to some other process for 2 jobs.

[Trumpy]

I have searched for this statement previously but was unable to find it in all the internet. BUT i remember this quote and in fact it had me very excited about Mythics and i remember reading how you make them when it was finally released thinking how in the fuck hell is that casual, basically beating all of aht urgan at nauseum. and the fact u had to do all the assaults to get captain to even start and they had to do it all again when it was super annoying trying to get help back then to do them at all the first time.
but just because we cant find said quote doesnt mean it wasnt said in an interview or in a vana fest, and then reported on the internet as "They talked about the upcoming mythics." with no details as often happens. I believe one quote i could find tho was them sayin it being about as much effort as a relic, which even then it is way over the top, even counting back then people used whole LSes to make relics, where as today we can solo them.

[Kari]

They've already made Mythics much easier to obtain. Neo Salvage spews out Alex whether or not you're aiming to farm it. As someone who's currently making a Mythic, I see no reason to lower anything or make anything easier. Plenty of Alex in the markets, very easy to farm Salvage for Alex.

[Trumpy]

they said because they balanced empys and relics before the new jobs they would not be added. (this is why blu and on arent on relics) although i dont see how a excalibur in the hands of a blu or a mandau in the hands of a dnc would be at all overpowered or need much balancing at all. BUT they did say that these jobs could get mythics as they would be balanced for the only job that can equip them.

I believe they said they would have artifact relic and empy armor too, but i bet if anything at launch we might have artifact in game (maybe even statless as i think happened for some jobs after blu was added until they know what kind of things to add due to player style with said job.) and after they see how we use them add the higher level gears.

[Kojo]

they said because they balanced empys and relics before the new jobs they would not be added. (this is why blu and on arent on relics) although i dont see how a excalibur in the hands of a blu or a mandau in the hands of a dnc would be at all overpowered or need much balancing at all. BUT they did say that these jobs could get mythics as they would be balanced for the only job that can equip them.

I believe they said they would have artifact relic and empy armor too, but i bet if anything at launch we might have artifact in game (maybe even statless as i think happened for some jobs after blu was added until they know what kind of things to add due to player style with said job.) and after they see how we use them add the higher level gears.

I truly believe the only real reason newer jobs can't use Relics is stubbornness. I see no reason NOT to add them.

As for AF, no, a statless version, to my memory, was never released in game. PUP, BLU, and COR simply didn't receive AF for about a month, SCH and DNC AF was released the day the jobs were, if memory serves.

For Mythics, what they should do is cut the crap with Captain, Assaults, Beastmen kings, etc. and open Salvage up to soloers. This will make building a Mythic much more feasible, but still be a time waster.

[Yinnyth]

Personally, I'd rather they just beef up mythics instead of making them easier to obtain. Though I wouldn't complain much if they made them easier either.

[Kincard]

Mythics have already been made easier (by nearly 50% of the gilcost on some servers) with the large increase of Alexandrite from Salvage II. I can't believe people are still complaining about this. If you want a "casual's relic", go make an Empyrean.

That aside, they have never, ever said that Mythics were meant as the "casual's relic" or whatever. When Mythics were first introduced at the fanfest they appeared, one of the community sites asked a question along the lines of "will it be easier to get than relics?" and they responded with something that boiled down to "Hmm...we think so." That is not a guarantee that it was meant to be a "casual's" relic, it was just SE being bad at estimating the difficulty of the item like they do almost all the damn time. And frankly, gil-wise the price wasn't much higher- I think it was even lower for a while- during the 75 era, it's just that mythics were mostly garbage at the 75 cap so few ever bothered making them.

It's so surreal seeing rumors/hearsay/quote mining like this form in front of your eyes, just serves as reminder how people will take anything out of context in order to serve their beliefs if that's what's convenient for them, and then it passes onto other people who don't know any better and the entire argument is based on malice or bad reading comprehension. Not saying they arn't partly at fault for being so out of touch with the community, but I wish people would go back and actually read the damn interview before once again pulling stuff out of their ass.

[Demon6324236]

Mythics have already been made easier (by nearly 50% of the gilcost on some servers) with the large increase of Alexandrite from Salvage II. I can't believe people are still complaining about this.Simply look at the requirements between the three types of weapons, see the difference between the amount of work, look at the amount of Mythics which are top tier weapons, explain why they should take so much more work. DRG and PUP are the most effected by such weapons, they put up no where near the damage that any other job can with a Relic or Emp, people who like those jobs are screwed into having to make something harder than the other two combined because that is their only weapon that puts them near the same level as the others. A WAR can make a Rag and an Ukon both to level 99 on the same budget as a DRG would have to spend on just the Alex and TI for their Mythic, not counting the other countless hours of work they have to put in doing Assaults, Kings, ZNMs, Salvage Wins, and so on.

Simply put, the effort needed for the weapons does not match the reward by far, and a few jobs get screwed over because of it. Go down the list of weapons that are best for each job, only a few have Mythics that are the best in many situations, Emps and Relics are often the best, yet the effort for one is the other way around, where Emps and Relics are easy by compare to Mythics which are much harder, or at least, much more time taking.

[Kincard]

DRGs and PUPs should be asking SE to fix their horribly designed jobs (Alongside a few other ones like NIN, SMN, etc) instead of asking them to fix single weapons that are supposed to be difficult to get that happen to be band aids. A job shouldn't need to have a specific weapon to be viable for use. My WAR can do just fine with a Dies Irae (In fact I wouldn't be surprised if I wasn't doing much worse than a DRG using OAT or Gungnir), so they should fix the jobs themselves.

DRG gets the shortest stick in all this (They should fix Gungnir and Rhongomiant) but Verethragna is just fine for PUPs.

[Demon6324236]

So far as I know these are the best damage options for each job, counting only self damage, not extra damage from pets and only melee.

WAR - Emp/Mythic(MS Only)
MNK - Relic
WHM - Relic
BLM - Prov Staff
RDM - Relic
THF - Relic
PLD - Relic GS
DRK - Relic GS
BST - Mythic
BRD - Relic
RNG - Relic Gun
SAM - Mythic
NIN - Relic
DRG - Mythic
SMN - Prov Staff
BLU - Emp
COR - Emp
PUP - Mythic
DNC - Emp
SCH - Prov Staff

If you get a bit more specific to the job and its uses, I think it looks more like...

WAR - Emp/Mythic(MS Only)
MNK - Relic
WHM - Cure Pot Staff
BLM - Trial Staves
RDM - Relic
THF - Relic
PLD - Relic/Emp Shield
DRK - Relic GS
BST - Mythic
BRD - Mythic
RNG - Relic Gun
SAM - Mythic
NIN - Relic
DRG - Mythic
SMN - Mythic
BLU - Emp
COR - Emp
PUP - Mythic
DNC - Emp
SCH - Trial Staves

The second list totals at 7 Relics, 4 Emps, 7 Mythics, and 3 Trial weapons. If my numbers are a bit off please forgive me but my point is, Mythics do not deserve the difficulty they have by compare to the others. Even if you are correct and prices on Alex are half of what they used to be (which they are not on Phoenix) then it would still be double the price of a Relic, while Relics have very simple requirements outside of Ancient Currency, Mythics have much more than simply Alexandrites. So explain to me, what exact reason besides having them as a trophy item, should Mythics be so difficult by compare to their fellow high tier 'super' weapons?

[Kincard]

So basically, you're saying Mythics arn't as good as relics and empyreans when you discount the entire point of their design (adding/augmenting the job's native abilities)?

[Demon6324236]

No, the second post factored in that very thing, but the thing is that most people do not want or need most of what they have to offer anyways, for instance, NIN. Mythics that are used for those traits are either the best of their group, or very situational, in the case of what is probably the most common Mythic of all, Yagrush, the WHM Mythic, it is situational. It lets you AoE your status removal spells 100% of the time, this is awesome, but also, this is not the perfect item, it is used for a single line of spells in situations you have AoE debuffs put on your party, nothing more. This is a single use, can one really say its worth all of the work it takes to make it? In my opinion, not nearly, is the RDM Mythic worth it for a piece of gear that Enhances Convert? Again, I think not. Some of them are great others are near worthless, in either case they should not be at very least four times the amount of effort as their counterparts. Twice the effort would be stretching it.

[Kincard]

Personally I think instead of making Mythics easier to get, they should just make them stronger (And fix the stupid ones like you mentioned, NIN/RDM/SCH/etc). I (And many other players) rather like the idea of having trophy items in the game and Mythics are almost the only thing left in the game that qualify aside from Afterglows, which has a grand total of like, 5 owners (I can think of 3)? Maybe if Afterglows wern't so absurdly difficult to obtain it wouldn't be such a big deal.

For the record, Mythic is the best weapon for DNC, and given PLD's actual function currently in high-end stuff usually the best weapon for them. In certain situations its the best for MNK and absorbing 60 AGI/VIT off a monster with Liberator is something nothing else can do.

Ultimately complaints about the difficulty of mythics usually is actually just "I want mythics to be easier so I can play PUP/DRG/SMN more often" when the problem has always been with the design of those jobs themselves. If they made these jobs not be totally useless unless they had a Ryunohige/whatever this wouldn't be such a big deal and you know it.

[Demon6324236]

Personally I think instead of making Mythics easier to get, they should just make them stronger (And fix the stupid ones like you mentioned, NIN/RDM/SCH/etc). I (And many other players) rather like the idea of having trophy items in the game and Mythics are almost the only thing left in the game that qualify aside from Afterglows, which has a grand total of like, 5 owners (I can think of 3)? Maybe if Afterglows wern't so absurdly difficult to obtain it wouldn't be such a big deal.Perhaps they should alter the requirements of Afterglows then so they are more appropriate trophy items that are easier to obtain, so that Mythics can be made easier without people wanting trophies to have to condemn Mythics? Afterglows are worthless as they are and serve as nothing more than trophies anyways, so to keep Mythics that way seems a bit wrong, if you want a trophy you know where the real challenge is, you even said you like that type of thing yourself, so you should be all over an afterglow for your Kannagi or Relic Katana.


For the record, Mythic is the best weapon for DNC, and given PLD's actual function currently in high-end stuff usually the best weapon for them. In certain situations its the best for MNK and absorbing 60 AGI/VIT off a monster with Liberator is something nothing else can do.DNC I did not know for sure but I was fairly sure that Twashtar was better for it. PLD I admit Burtgang is the best sword in optimum gear. I could have sworn the MNK one was worse than both Relic and Emp H2H in nearly all cases, and Liberator only has that single use, another piece like Yagrush, in this cases where you would put it on at the start of a fight, wipe your TP, throw out a spell, and then change back to Rag for the actual fight. But ok, more Mythics are actually good or the best for the job.


Ultimately complaints about the difficulty of mythics usually is actually just "I want mythics to be easier so I can play PUP/DRG/SMN more often" when the problem has always been with the design of those jobs themselves. If they made these jobs not be totally useless unless they had a Ryunohige/whatever this wouldn't be such a big deal and you know it.Well that depends on the point of view of the poster. I admit my reasons are because I want a Burtgang for my PLD character, my GF bugs me to no end to make her a Nirvana even though she is a SMN who does not use any gear swaps and refuses to under any circumstances, and the fact I want a RDM Mythic for my main character because I want to be the best RDM there is. Burtgang is actually somewhat worth my time right now, the weapon is actually good as you said, so it makes sense to make it. Nirvana in the hands of my GF is worthless because she does not play the game in a way that she can make real use of it, and she will not leave me alone about it when we are on the game, so I would rather waste less of my time on this weapon than I will need to right now. My RDM Mythic is worthless, I know it is worthless, it has two uses in the entire game for me, which is Convert and Enfeebling, neither of which are worth the investment. Do I want these for trophies? No, the only one that could be compared to that is my RDM Mythic due to its limited practical use, the others are for real use, I want these weapons to use them, but thanks to these high requirements I will likely never have them because they are simply not worth the effort compared to their counterparts.



Ill be perfectly honest, I give up arguing my ideals on Mythics, its a waste of my time. Everyone who wants them to be trophy items are already set on what they think they should be and will not change their minds. No matter the difference between them and the other weapons. You said your amazed people still complain after all of this, I'm surprised people can not see the problem still. When Mythics require only 5000 Alex, and the total price is only 70Mil, maybe it will be acceptable, because the work outside of the cost will be fair. Till a time the work is similar between the two I think they are unbalanced and should be changed on their requirements to bring them more in line with the others of their level.

[hiko]

SE never said mythic where casual relic, they said it was a quest oriented relic instead of gil one.
they failed at it with alex requirment

[Taint2]

For the record, Mythic is the best weapon for DNC, and given PLD's actual function currently in high-end stuff usually the best weapon for them. In certain situations its the best for MNK and absorbing 60 AGI/VIT off a monster with Liberator is something nothing else can do.




I agree with most of your post, but I always hate the Liberator absorb arguement. Absorbing 60 (Lib) instead of 40 (any DRK) is not going to be a game changer on anything. Even on tier3+ Mul mobs that 20agi/vit etc isn't doing anything.

[Kincard]

It's actually good enough to help your group autocap crit rate without changes like using Boost-DEX instead of Boost-STR and some other things on those harder enemies and significantly raise fSTR. I agree that Liberator certainly needs some improvements but the extra +20 stat is actually pretty significant.

I'd say the +20 is most significant on the AGI just because of the way dDEX works.

[Taint2]

It's actually good enough to help your group autocap crit rate without changes like using Boost-DEX instead of Boost-STR and some other things on those harder enemies and significantly raise fSTR. I agree that Liberator certainly needs some improvements but the extra +20 stat is actually pretty significant.

I'd say the +20 is most significant on the AGI just because of the way dDEX works.


Wat.

Any mob that is that high of lvl is already getting Impacted. Most mobs that lvl you aren't even considering dDex since they have huge crit penalties. Between BRD songs, Boost STR and non lib absVIT, fSTR shouldn't be a concern either. The uses for Liberators Abs bonus are next to none. Liberator is a toy like lots of Mythics and yes I have played with Liberators in my alliance.

[ManaKing]

Mythics are for Pet jobs, TP mongers, and for job utility. It's what they have been designed for since 75. If anything, it's a bonus if your best weapon isn't a Mythic because then you don't have to spend as much money on making your character cracked out.

Hmmm make a Tizona which has a terrible WS associated with it or get ODD on BLU spells with an Almace that I can make next week by myself if I start now? It's a hard choice, I know.


If you are a 2H job, you can only use 1 weapon. It's not like you are going to make 2 weapons that are both DPS dynamos unless they both have inherent strengths for different situations because you are just wasting money you could be using elsewhere.

In the case of dual wield jobs you have limited options. Relics shouldn't be offhanded because they only give you DPS stats of the DMG and delay and absolutely nothing else. Mythics can't benefit from their AMs in your offhand, even if you use the mythic WS. Empyreans are about the only good offhand for dual wield because at least then they drop stats on you as well as DPS equivalents of Relics. Aymur/Farsha BST is gross, but most dual wield combinations of prestige weapons are underwhelming. It basically matters what your Empy is and what it will do for a relic or mythic.

So my point, is why care about something that is overpriced and doesn't play well with others?

I'd love to Murgleis/Excalibur for DB + Req numbers but then I would be off-handing a longsword while main-handing a rapier..........

[Cair]

For reference, Mythics were not introduced as an "easier to get version" of relic weapons - they were introduced as weapons that would cost less but take more time to get. The result was that these were not as strong of weapons, but a reasonable alternative for someone who wished to put in the work. Consider than when Mythics were released, currency was more than three times as expensive as it is now, and Alexandrite was effectively three times cheaper.

At the time, outside of utility purposes and perhaps PUP and DRG (and those without relics), Mythic weapons would never surpass other alternatives in terms of damage. It just wouldn't happen. The price of Alexandrite and currency has shifted dramatically since their initial inception, but so has their functionality. While there are changes that could be made to Mythic weapons themselves to increase their usability without overpowering them drastically to make the difficulty more reasonable, easing the requirements would make them almost laughable to obtain.

You're going to have to do better than a reasoning that amounts to "this wasn't what is was like before!" Guess what, neither are the weapons.

[Myo]

Who cares what they were originally intended to be anyway? Rumor has it SAM was supposed to be a tank and NIN was only supposed to be a fancy pulling job. Look what happened once players got hold of that content. I don't see people clamoring for SAM's tanking ability to be boosted and NIN to be given more ranged weapons.
Mythics are only in high demand because they are hard to get right now. Know what happens when every person in Port Jeuno has one? No one is going to care about them. Because relics and emps are usually better for most jobs anyway. :P

[Horadrim]

I know everyone has said the same, but Mythics were intended to be the casual player's Relic, yet they've been harder to get since day 1. The Devs will, hopefully, be tweaking with Mythics to add RUN's and GEO's in, so why not fix them and make the base 75 Mythic easier to get while tweaking? Leave the ToTM trials for them as is, but make getting the base easier and make them truly a casual player's Relic.

inb4 comments about me whining or something

Mythics aren't hard to go, they just take a lot of effort. If you list out all of the requirements and step, the only thing really bad is the Alexandrite.

Odin can be killed by a good 6 man party, nothing else on the list of tasks is really so daunting, boils down to:

Complete ToAU storyline
Win each Salvage area
Complete and log each Assault
Defeat each ToAU megaboss (farm 3 keys for each)
30000 Alexandrite
Complete a Runic Disc (beat Floor 100 of Nyzul)
Defeat Pandamonium Warden (or was it just have the win items from the 3 bosses before him?)
Buy two ichor items (farm poitns from Einherjar)

What did I miss?

None of that is hard anymore -- remember all of it was level 75 content and we're level 99 now. You just have to build a good static and work on it consistently.

[Kojo]

Mythics aren't hard to go, they just take a lot of effort. If you list out all of the requirements and step, the only thing really bad is the Alexandrite.

Odin can be killed by a good 6 man party, nothing else on the list of tasks is really so daunting, boils down to:

Complete ToAU storyline
Win each Salvage area
Complete and log each Assault
Defeat each ToAU megaboss (farm 3 keys for each)
30000 Alexandrite
Complete a Runic Disc (beat Floor 100 of Nyzul)
Defeat Pandamonium Warden (or was it just have the win items from the 3 bosses before him?)
Buy two ichor items (farm poitns from Einherjar)

What did I miss?

None of that is hard anymore -- remember all of it was level 75 content and we're level 99 now. You just have to build a good static and work on it consistently.

You don't have to beat Panda Warden, you have to beat the 3 Beastman Kings who, depending on certain server-wide conditions may not/do not spawn.

[Zumi]

Mythics aren't hard to go, they just take a lot of effort. If you list out all of the requirements and step, the only thing really bad is the Alexandrite.

Odin can be killed by a good 6 man party, nothing else on the list of tasks is really so daunting, boils down to:

Complete ToAU storyline
Win each Salvage area
Complete and log each Assault
Defeat each ToAU megaboss (farm 3 keys for each)
30000 Alexandrite
Complete a Runic Disc (beat Floor 100 of Nyzul)
Defeat Pandamonium Warden (or was it just have the win items from the 3 bosses before him?)
Buy two ichor items (farm poitns from Einherjar)

What did I miss?

None of that is hard anymore -- remember all of it was level 75 content and we're level 99 now. You just have to build a good static and work on it consistently.

Beat ToAU missions
Get Captain 50 assaults
Beat all 4 Salvage bosses
Beat each ToAU beast man king all 3 (this can take weeks or more of camping because people kill them so much in besieged making them not spawn in their stronghold)
Finish a disc in old nyzul to 100.
Get an Eye patch 100k points from Einherjar
Redo assaults all 50 trade a log to the rune of release.
150000 nyzul tokens to buy an item
ZNM items from each of the 3 Tier 4 ZNMs.

[Monchat]

I know everyone has said the same, but Mythics were intended to be the casual player's Relic, yet they've been harder to get since day 1. The Devs will, hopefully, be tweaking with Mythics to add RUN's and GEO's in, so why not fix them and make the base 75 Mythic easier to get while tweaking? Leave the ToTM trials for them as is, but make getting the base easier and make them truly a casual player's Relic.

inb4 comments about me whining or something

Mythic quests are clearly the hardest quests in the game. There is nothing more hardcore than maing a mythic. the 30,000 alexandrite are not the reason (supply is good since salvage II). The difficulty were the same at level 75. so not sure where you think they are for casual lol.

Clearing assaults again is minimum 50days and 150k tokens in nyzul is 30 days (assuming 15 floots per run). Add to that getting captain (50 days too), you're looking at a minimum of 130 days. 130 days is 4 months, and you still need a party of 6 people to do einherjar, 3 to do assaults/nyzul. A party of 6 people just needs ~3month to make a glowing relic, playing just 2 hours of dynamis a day, so yes, mythic is even harder than glowing weapons lol.

[hiko]

Clearing assaults again is minimum 50days and 150k tokens in nyzul is 30 days (assuming 15 floots per run). Add to that getting captain (50 days too), you're looking at a minimum of 130 days. 130 days is 4 months, and you still need a party of 6 people to do einherjar, 3 to do assaults/nyzul. A party of 6 people just needs ~3month to make a glowing relic, playing just 2 hours of dynamis a day, so yes, mythic is even harder than glowing weapons lol.
Yes but in a party of 6 doing assault/NI/einehrjar the 6 people get the progress on their mythic so you're saying that doing 6 mythic is harder than doing 1 afterglow relic (using leveled, uptodate mules loging in/out for buff....)
and assault+salvage doesnt take more time per day than dyna

[Demon6324236]

Mythic quests are clearly the hardest quests in the game.There is a difference between hard, and time taking. Legion is hard for most people. Making a Mythic is time taking for most people. Some people can do them easier or faster than others, but they are the current extremes of the categories. Mythics are not really the hardest quests, that would probably be Provenance Watcher's (only because not everyone can get a good group to go with, I have been with plenty of fail groups) where as all of the Mythic stuff is easy, it all just takes months of work to muddle through.

As for the reasoning why he thinks they are for casual players, its because thats basically what SE said when they were talked about, and yet, they were most definitely not that. It would be like if they announced Legion as the new Abyssea, where everyone could go and enjoy it, and it was a mainly casual event, where as the final result was the most difficult thing there is. In all fairness though, SE probably did their math wrong and though that casual players would be ok with doing 3 hours of work every day on a game after getting home from their jobs over the course of half of a year so they could enjoy a weapon that depending on the job was going to be terrible in almost all cases in only 2~3 years anyways. I know not all of that info was there at the time on either side, but really, they made a mistake about the time it requires. Mythics should take 1~2 months at most if you work on them everyday, not 4~5 months.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

All of mythic is easy to obtain, the only problem therein, is that you need at least 3 people to accomplish most of it. Needing extra people just as an entry requirement takes the casual out of it.



If you get a bit more specific to the job and its uses, I think it looks more like...

WHM - Cure Pot StaffClub and shield are better btw.

[Yinnyth]

Mythics aren't hard to go, they just take a lot of effort.

Six-pack abs aren't hard to get, they just take a lot of effort. That's why most people don't have six-pack abs.

[Kari]

The Mythic requirements are fine.
If anything, most of the requirements are there to sidetrack you during the 30,000 Alexandrite ride.
I'm almost finished with every requirement otherwise, and I only have ~10,000 Alex from buying and farming Neo Salvage every day.

I do agree they should let people enter Salvage with one person. There's absolutely no reason not to. Some people already do it solo, but they have to drag 2 people there to d/c or warp.


DNC - Emp

You're a funny guy if you think DNC Mythic doesn't put out more than their Emp.

[Mittenz]

I am on the side that mythics are fine as far as requirements go, if you want something that's good and can be done in a week get an empyrean if you just want to buy something get a relic. Mythics are not really hard just long to obtain (as such I have 2 and am working on my 3rd ATM)

They could do with a bit of a boost on some but overall because of how they are it's not that bad some may be situational but overall there is still a use for each and every one of them.

As the owner of a PUP mythic though (as well as the dnc one and yes Terpsichore crushes twashtar) your comment about drg and pup needing mythics to participate I would like to point out even with a mythic the player base won't welcome them with open arms. The player base will use the most effective means to ensure victory and ATM because of damage formulas in the highest teir of end game (namely legion for now) nothing can keep up with a 2h or more specifically war and drk where a mnk and pup or other 1h (mythic or otherwise) will only put out 60-80% of the damage simply because of how damage works. The jobs need fixing not mythics.

As far as prices go though Alex has gone from 20k to 11k on my server and is still dropping so it's not nearly as bad as it used to be and with NNI and salvage V2 there is always Alex for sale (doing salvage 5 days a week with 3 I walk away with 200-300 a week but that could easily be 500+ a week if I wanted to farm for myself)

But for the other requirements you are not just doing it for 1 person you are doing it for 3-6 people and it's not really hard.

[Zhronne]

As for AF, no, a statless version, to my memory, was never released in game. PUP, BLU, and COR simply didn't receive AF for about a month
Might be wrong here but I think they didn't add AF for way longer than just one month. Was it 2-3?

I'm curious what they'll do about Relic (dynamis I suppose?) and Empyrean. Will it still be related to Abyssea?

[Horadrim]

Beat ToAU missions
Get Captain 50 assaults
Beat all 4 Salvage bosses
Beat each ToAU beast man king all 3 (this can take weeks or more of camping because people kill them so much in besieged making them not spawn in their stronghold)
Finish a disc in old nyzul to 100.
Get an Eye patch 100k points from Einherjar
Redo assaults all 50 trade a log to the rune of release.
150000 nyzul tokens to buy an item
ZNM items from each of the 3 Tier 4 ZNMs.

All of which actually isn't that overbearing of a task. Do you really have to beat Assaults twice?

Either way, its about 3 months for what ends up being at least the second most powerful weapon for any class in the game. Doesn't seem too bad to me.

Definitely better than AFK'ing for the first half of building an Empy weapon, in my opinion.

[Kojo]

Yes, beat once for captain rank, second time to log the victories for the quest.

[Byrth]

I liked doing the Mythic quest the first time because I enjoyed ToAU content. If I was going to list one reason why the quest shouldn't be nerfed, it's because the entirety of the quest is so varied and enjoyable. Basically:
* Making a relic is a grind because it's 99.5% just farming currency/gil and 0.5% walking to a goblin.
* Making an empyrean is a grind because it's 20% farming R/Ex items and 80% farming plates/rift items/gil.
* Making a mythic is fun because it's 50% doing quests, Einherjar, etc. and 50% farming Alexandrite/gil.

Mythics are monumentally more effort, but if you find doing quests, Einherjar, etc. fun then it feels less like "work" and more like you're playing an enjoyable game. Of the 4 level 99 weapons I own, my mythic was by far the most fun to make and felt like the largest accomplishment when it was done. That said, I have plenty of gil and no desire to make a second.

[Vyvian]

All of which actually isn't that overbearing of a task. Do you really have to beat Assaults twice?

Either way, its about 3 months for what ends up being at least the second most powerful weapon for any class in the game. Doesn't seem too bad to me.

Definitely better than AFK'ing for the first half of building an Empy weapon, in my opinion.

Being captain is a requirement to even start the quest for a Mythic. After that, you get given 5 assault books and told to go back and record memories (essentially win the missions).

Repeating the mythic quest is kind of amusing, you get something of a "here we go again" and "you should know what to expect this time." But they coded the quest to restart the initial requirements even though they're all tracked by titles. So it's like go kill odin, the beastmen bosses and the salvage bosses. CS Ends.. click Naja again, good job you're done. Now go to Nashmau and see Paparoon.

On your repeat, since you are already captain, you get a new set of 5 assault books to repeat with. So its getting captain to start, and then 1 set of 50 assaults per mythic.

[Horadrim]

Being captain is a requirement to even start the quest for a Mythic. After that, you get given 5 assault books and told to go back and record memories (essentially win the missions).

Repeating the mythic quest is kind of amusing, you get something of a "here we go again" and "you should know what to expect this time." But they coded the quest to restart the initial requirements even though they're all tracked by titles. So it's like go kill odin, the beastmen bosses and the salvage bosses. CS Ends.. click Naja again, good job you're done. Now go to Nashmau and see Paparoon.

On your repeat, since you are already captain, you get a new set of 5 assault books to repeat with. So its getting captain to start, and then 1 set of 50 assaults per mythic.

See, but I don't mind that. Personally I wish they scripted it like "Well, before we put this in your hands -- we need to see you do some training. You've done these before, so it should be a good exercise, right?"

Still, I think the only thing they need to do to make that ok is set it so that once you acquire a mythic, they let you store unlimited Assault tags. Then you still have to redo them, but you can burn them down in a day if you so choose.

Meanwhile -- its no different than if I decide I want to make na Almace or Empy Lance after I finish my Verethragna -- I still have to recamp NMs for what seems like an eternity.

[Keyln]

The big problem with getting mythics really is the party requirements. You NEED to be in a party of three to start any assault. You NEED to be in a party of three to climb Nyzul Isle. You NEED to be in a party of 3 to go into Salvage.

If SE wants to make mythics easier to get (and they should, judging by the number of mythics out there), they should drop the party requirements for Nyzul Isle, Assaults, and Salvage. Most of these things can be done solo by most players.

[Raksha]

Mythics are monumentally more effort, but if you find doing quests, Einherjar, etc. fun then it feels less like "work" and more like you're playing an enjoyable game.

And if you don't enjoy those things, or you enjoyed them the first million times you did them, but don't look forward to the second million, then you'd rather be punched in the nuts than make a mythic.

[Yinnyth]

Edit: I mostly agree with the points Keyln raised regarding 3-person entry requirements, not because I think Mythics are the only weapon which requires a group to complete, but because assaults and nyzul can be solo'd by most jobs now, if not for their entry requirement.

[detlef]

And if you don't enjoy those things, or you enjoyed them the first million times you did them, but don't look forward to the second million, then you'd rather be punched in the nuts than make a mythic.If you have done Nyzul or Einherjar a million times already, shouldn't you have all the ampoules/tokens you need or at least be well in to the requirement?

[Demon6324236]

If you have done Nyzul or Einherjar a million times already, shouldn't you have all the ampoules/tokens you need or at least be well in to the requirement?Let me sum something up about that real quick. If I did nothing but T3 Einherjar for 1920 Ichor a run, I would have to do it 53 times to get enough for a single Mythic. Myself, I do not like old Einherjar, its rather dull and boring because there is no challenge. So for me to get this, it is not fun, rather it is more than 50 dull runs of the same thing over and over again that I do not actually like doing. No one will or could have possibly done Einherjar 1,000,000 times, no one could have done it even 10,000 times if you did it every time possible since it was released. It was an obvious inflation of numbers. I think the point was that once you do all of that annoying side work, you may not want to do it again, and if you did not enjoy it the first time, who can blame you for not wanting to do another round of it. I myself agree, if I make a Mythic like I want to I will be doing all of the prereqs together with my GF and my second character at the same time, we will all get the points and wins together so that we can each get our Mythic and never have to do any of the prereqs again except for the Alexandrites.

Shot Form:It was a number exaggeration, if you do all of the stuff for a Mythic once, chances are you are not going to wanna do it all again.

[Zhronne]

Wait wat? I thought the second time you do a Mythic you didn't have to re-do the following steps:
1) Getting titles from Salvage bosses, Odin and 3 ToAU megabosses
2) Getting Captain

But you only had to re-do the rest. So the Einherjar R/E, the NI R/E, the 5 Assault Books and the 30k Alex.
Are you sure you need to re-do even those 2 steps I linked above? Sounds really stupid.

[Byrth]

No, you don't have to re-do any of the first quest (beyond turning in the weapon).

[Raksha]

If you have done Nyzul or Einherjar a million times already, shouldn't you have all the ampoules/tokens you need or at least be well in to the requirement?

I have the ichor, but since i despise nyzul I got my shit and got out as quickly as possible. never did assaults or salvage because most of the gear was trash, or my jobs at the time (SCH and DNC mostly) couldnt use them.

Now i'm in the position where I can dual box but dont like having to find a 3rd person to drag in with me. Thats even assuming that I wanted to waste all that time farming alexandrite. After doing a shitload of dynamis for my relic the last thing i want to do at this point is grind more currency.

[detlef]

Despite the "spam t3 Einherjar over and over" example above, many people who didn't blow all their ampoules on rubber harnesses already have finished or are close to finishing the ampoules requirement. Odin was 2880 ampoules, after all. People have had years to do Einherjar. As for Nyzul, unless you lost a lot (and broke even on tokens), you should have a good start. Maybe a good start is only 20k tokens or maybe it's 50k. 5k tokens per run is very reasonable with even 1 other person and a mule.

Regarding assault, that content is actually varied. Many are quick kills at 99, while others offer content with unique mechanics that you can't experience anywhere else in the game. I don't think the repetitive content statement holds up for these. A lot of the PSC and PFC assaults were pretty bad though, you're right about that, so if you got in and got out really quickly you only experienced the annoying ones.

As for Salvage? Sorry but you're stuck with that. If you aren't willing to grind alexandrite, why should you get a mythic? You're not even complaining about the amount, you're just complaining that you have to do it. Also, look how far we've come from the old days of linkshells farming relics when we complain that mythics are annoying because they require another person.

Are we complaining that new players who missed out on all the ToAU content have to jump through too many hoops? Or are we just complaining about the amount of alexandrite needed? The alexandrite gripe is legitimate, but the requirement is easier than ever due to neo-salvage. However, after seeing some of the SoA armor stats, I'd worry about the long term future of the event.

[Mittenz]

Let me sum something up about that real quick. If I did nothing but T3 Einherjar for 1920 Ichor a run, I would have to do it 53 times to get enough for a single Mythic. Myself, I do not like old Einherjar, its rather dull and boring because there is no challenge. So for me to get this, it is not fun, rather it is more than 50 dull runs of the same thing over and over again that I do not actually like doing. No one will or could have possibly done Einherjar 1,000,000 times, no one could have done it even 10,000 times if you did it every time possible since it was released. It was an obvious inflation of numbers. I think the point was that once you do all of that annoying side work, you may not want to do it again, and if you did not enjoy it the first time, who can blame you for not wanting to do another round of it. I myself agree, if I make a Mythic like I want to I will be doing all of the prereqs together with my GF and my second character at the same time, we will all get the points and wins together so that we can each get our Mythic and never have to do any of the prereqs again except for the Alexandrites.

Shot Form:It was a number exaggeration, if you do all of the stuff for a Mythic once, chances are you are not going to wanna do it all again.

I wouldn't say it's really bad I am on mythic 3 (assaults round 4 gooooo) less annoyance than sitting waiting for weather for 3hrs then have it last 10s and it's better than watching yells in jueno.

[Raksha]

Despite the "spam t3 Einherjar over and over" example above, many people who didn't blow all their ampoules on rubber harnesses already have finished or are close to finishing the ampoules requirement. Odin was 2880 ampoules, after all. People have had years to do Einherjar. As for Nyzul, unless you lost a lot (and broke even on tokens), you should have a good start. Maybe a good start is only 20k tokens or maybe it's 50k. 5k tokens per run is very reasonable with even 1 other person and a mule.

Regarding assault, that content is actually varied. Many are quick kills at 99, while others offer content with unique mechanics that you can't experience anywhere else in the game. I don't think the repetitive content statement holds up for these. A lot of the PSC and PFC assaults were pretty bad though, you're right about that, so if you got in and got out really quickly you only experienced the annoying ones.

As for Salvage? Sorry but you're stuck with that. If you aren't willing to grind alexandrite, why should you get a mythic? You're not even complaining about the amount, you're just complaining that you have to do it. Also, look how far we've come from the old days of linkshells farming relics when we complain that mythics are annoying because they require another person.

Are we complaining that new players who missed out on all the ToAU content have to jump through too many hoops? Or are we just complaining about the amount of alexandrite needed? The alexandrite gripe is legitimate, but the requirement is easier than ever due to neo-salvage. However, after seeing some of the SoA armor stats, I'd worry about the long term future of the event.

The only job I would want a mythic for anyway is SCH, and Tupsimati is shit. So I'm not crying over it. I dont mind farming alexandrite on principle if I could do it dual box like I did dynamis.

Nyzul is kind of a deal breaker for me personally. I really hate it.

[detlef]

The only job I would want a mythic for anyway is SCH, and Tupsimati is shit. So I'm not crying over it. I dont mind farming alexandrite on principle if I could do it dual box like I did dynamis.

Nyzul is kind of a deal breaker for me personally. I really hate it.Okay I hear ya, sorry your mythic is so bad. Dunno what SE was thinking there.

[Fynlar]

They've already made Mythics much easier to obtain. Neo Salvage spews out Alex whether or not you're aiming to farm it.

You must have a vastly different definition of "spews out" than the rest of us. Yes, it is higher on average than NQ Salvage, but not really by a whole lot.

The supply on alex is getting better because HQ Salvage is actually a reasonable event in which people can make marked progress toward the gear they want on each run (in the form of plans) and therefore people are actually bothering to do it. Despite that though, the supply per run is still not anything I would call extraordinary.

[Obysuca]

The supply on alex is getting better because HQ Salvage is actually a reasonable event in which people can make marked progress toward the gear they want on each run (in the form of plans) and therefore people are actually bothering to do it. Despite that though, the supply per run is still not anything I would call extraordinary.

Until SoA completely obsoletes the gear with purchasable ones.

[Demon6324236]

Until SoA completely obsoletes the gear with purchasable ones.Thats the biggest thing of all, Alex supply is up right now because of the gear. Starting tomorrow I highly expect that VW and Salvage will become much less common, and as a result Alex will return to its old short supply and this time Heavy Metal Plates, Cinder, Dross, Sand, and Mirrors will be joining it.

[Obysuca]

Thats the biggest thing of all, Alex supply is up right now because of the gear. Starting tomorrow I highly expect that VW and Salvage will become much less common, and as a result Alex will return to its old short supply and this time Heavy Metal Plates, Cinder, Dross, Sand, and Mirrors will be joining it.

Because of that, I'd say I'm going to hold off on my mythic, but come on, SE won't give pup anything better >.> I'm betting they put it on mage gear again in SoA -.- Or those new h2h on the SoA site are mnk only.

Only problem with mythic is the alex, a combination of needing two others (doesn't drop enough to get a decent amount after splitting :/) and the amount. There's a pretty big supply of it now, seen multiple bazaars with 12-15 stacks of it, yet the price is still anywhere from 12k-16k a piece >< Oh and assaults(not as bad but yeah), can't forget that lol No one wants to spend their tags to do outdated stuff that doesn't give them anything. 8 years of XI taught me that, people couldn't give a crap about anyone else unless they get something out of it lol

Considering only a very few jobs get a use of their mythic, you would assume the price would be lower, than let's say, a relic, which more jobs can get more uses out of. >.> Because for some reason, people think better(relic) = cheaper, not so great(mythic, for most jobs) = more expensive.

[Monchat]

get 2 mules and save your self troubles. People shout on my server for 200k to help you enter solo as well, not so expensive considering you'rr guarranted 1million gils worth of alex . If I farm alexandrites I do SSRII for a quick alex income for 30 minutes of my time (75 on average from boss). That's what you got from old SSR for the full clear, so its 3times better (faster). You'll still need 6 for einherjar but peronally I had 200k ichor ready lol.

[Demon6324236]

Because of that, I'd say I'm going to hold off on my mythic, but come on, SE won't give pup anything better >.> I'm betting they put it on mage gear again in SoA -.- Or those new h2h on the SoA site are mnk only.Really you should go the other way about it. Since Alex will dry up its best to buy up what you can now, seeing as supply will probably shrink and the cost will grow.


Only problem with mythic is the alex, a combination of needing two others (doesn't drop enough to get a decent amount after splitting :/) and the amount. There's a pretty big supply of it now, seen multiple bazaars with 12-15 stacks of it, yet the price is still anywhere from 12k-16k a piece >< Oh and assaults(not as bad but yeah), can't forget that lol No one wants to spend their tags to do outdated stuff that doesn't give them anything. 8 years of XI taught me that, people couldn't give a crap about anyone else unless they get something out of it lolAs far as farming Alex, they made it really dumb, old Salvage would take probably more than 10 months to get all 30k if you did it every day and everyone donated it to a single person, let alone the original 50k which was needed, the cost is much to high or if you shared/split. Even with the current speed, if you average 200 a run, it would end up being 150 days, thats 5 months, if you give all Alex to a single person, and you kill the NQ and HQ every run. As for the Assault problem, more people doing Salvage helps that a bit, but the problem is most people do Assault with their Salvage static so they all get points together, so unless you have a Salvage static you probably wont have much luck with an Assault static, also if you have a Salvage static it might be hard for you to get them to move forward with Assault missions rather than spamming easy ones for points, as a failure would slow you down.


Considering only a very few jobs get a use of their mythic, you would assume the price would be lower, than let's say, a relic, which more jobs can get more uses out of. >.> Because for some reason, people think better(relic) = cheaper, not so great(mythic, for most jobs) = more expensive.That is partially correct. The price would be lower if all were equal, however, it is not. Aht in my opinion takes more work to get done, where as Nations can be spammed easily and quickly, so access to Dyna vs Salvage puts Salvage on the harder side. Salvage requires three people to enter, Dyna can be entered solo, as well as finished Solo, where as Salvage is harder to solo generally due to starting out with very little at the beginning of a run. Thanks to how Salvage is designed, it is also impossible to have a temporary team up, in Dynamis people often team up for TEs, and split up after so they can each profit from their own separate runs, where as in Salvage you require these extra people, and there is no splitting up and going your own way upon entrance, rather you have to share the run. Due to this, all profits must be shared as well. So rather than being like Dynamis, where one can enter alone, choose to team up, and then make their own money alone after, Salvage requires you to enter with extras, and prevents you from splitting up to make your own money after. Thanks to this, the price is risen, also, Alex drop rates are lower than currency. People often do Dynamis and exit with 150~200 AC on your average run, with the occasional run that goes much higher, to 250 or even higher. Salvage, does not allow for such a thing, at best Salvage I probably awards about 150 Alex, if you get a Purse from every possible NM as well as the boss, and farm all Gears for their Alex as well. Salvage II allows for a much greater income, but also involves more people, at best you could probably make around 300 a run from Salvage II.

Basically, it takes more work to get access to and into Salvage than Dyna, it takes more work and planing to get through Salvage than Dyna, and it takes more people, to get into Salvage than Dyna. On top of that the amount you get is lower in Salvage, and the luck factor is also much greater because purse drops on NMs are not all 100%, especially the boss at the end which is where a ton of your Alex come from. Less people do Salvage, and there is a high demand, along with everything else this causes the high prices we experience.