[dev1000] Dynamis Reborn! [Archive] - FINAL FANTASY XI Forum

Yopop

03-08-2011, 05:14 PM

Remember the days Gil Farms would not buy expansions because they were too expensive. Now they can buy expansions and abyssea for 10-20 bucks for the lot.
now they can create level 90 jobs in just a day.

I have a feeling that they will come back in force with this update and farm Dynamis to the point where they will control the currency market as they did with the crafting markets for a few years.

I understand that FFXI is taking a more "WoW" approach to appeal to the teens with A.D.D who need everything quickly and with ease, but being able to not hit that lump like paying 500k per dynamis will allow Gil Farms to jump on a bandwagon and ease on in.

I'm on a server now where you can see new players buying gil left and right. People who you know just registered in the game and already buying items that are in the hundreds of thousands. It's nice that the game has cut the throat of a lot of gil farms and made gil pretty useless at some point, but i just have a bad feeling about taking the speed bump out of Dynamis events.

just an opinion, :)

added community rep response on 03/09/2011

found at Click here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/311-dev1000-Dynamis-Reborn!?p=7763&viewfull=1#post7763)

Hey everyone,

I wanted to shed some light on a correction we made to the original post:

Monster claim and item drops will work the same way as in regular fields and dungeons.

Sorry for the earlier confusion and I hope this clears things up!

[dev1000] Dynamis Reborn!

Adjustments:

Reservations will no longer be required to enter the above areas.
New key items will replace the "Timeless Hourglass" and "Perpetual Hourglass" items needed for entry.

The key items need only be obtained once.
It will be made available at an affordable price via the Goblin NPCs presently dealing in hourglasses.

Time restriction for entry will be changed to once per Earth day.
Trigger items will be introduced as a new spawn condition for certain notorious monsters (NMs).
Monster distribution will receive drastic revisions.
Monsters will yield experience points (excluding certain NMs).

Corres

03-08-2011, 05:45 PM

it will either lower the currency cost extremely or skyrocket them.
"everyburrdy gets a relic"

Eric

03-08-2011, 05:45 PM

I respectfully disagree with your opinion.

RMT don't really care enough about this game anymore to cause the damage you've described.

Starcade

03-08-2011, 05:51 PM

I respectfully disagree with your opinion.

RMT don't really care enough about this game anymore to cause the damage you've described.

Considering the present state of both of Square-Enix' MMO's, are you particularly surprised at this development?

As for the adjustments, I get the feeling that this is really going to screw up Dynamis for legitimate players.

Specie

03-08-2011, 05:55 PM

I have invested many years into dynamis and value my time spend with my ls and to find out that anyone can just walk in now and lot anything? Has all my time been for nothing?

Aangeliceus

03-08-2011, 06:01 PM

I have invested many years into dynamis and value my time spend with my ls and to find out that anyone can just walk in now and lot anything? Has all my time been for nothing?

If you think about, it's more of the 'first kid on the block to have the new toy...' -- Rank 10 used to mean something back when the game first came out. Some philosophy.

Starcade

03-08-2011, 06:03 PM

I have invested many years into dynamis and value my time spend with my ls and to find out that anyone can just walk in now and lot anything? Has all my time been for nothing?

Please tell me, upon rereading, that this is not going to go like what I am beginning to fear it will. We might as well just make the mobs soloable and let the players run roughshod like it were Abyssea.

Please it let not be this way.

Specie

03-08-2011, 06:03 PM

If you think about, it's more of the 'first kid on the block to have the new toy...' -- Rank 10 used to mean something back when the game first came out. Some philosophy.

I still have things to get from dynamis and much upgrading to do with -1's are all dynamis ls going to be broken now?

Aangeliceus

03-08-2011, 06:07 PM

I still have things to get from dynamis and much upgrading to do with -1's are all dynamis ls going to be broken now?

Me too actually. The cost and time change will actually help me greatly since my playtime is really limited and I actually still enjoy logging in and getting something done from time to time. I actually hope I can find another linkshell that runs on my hours, to get Dynamis stuff done with.

Corres

03-08-2011, 06:11 PM

Trangnai

03-08-2011, 06:15 PM

I just hope it doesn't destroy Dynamis as we know it, I can personally say I enjoy the way Dynamis works at the moment, quick kills with a decent drop rate but still enough of a challenge to require a semi-decent amount of people. If it becomes just a normal zone with a time limit and re-entry time when you time out it may may it hard to obtain dynamis gear/currency. Hopefully they will make it so each party entering has there own instance of the zone allowing them to kill mobs and get wins at there own pace, while not having to camp NMs and farm pop items for zone bosses and such. The new key items will make Dynamis much more affordable and rewarding, not spending money on a glass everytime you want to enter will make things alot easier. And exp on normal mobs in the zone will make it so that thfs or other sack pulling jobs don't end up with as much of a loss due to needing to preform such a task.

Raiko

03-08-2011, 06:20 PM

The parts that strikes me as odd follow as "New key items will replace the "Timeless Hourglass" and "Perpetual Hourglass" items needed for entry." as well as the"The key items need only be obtained once. It will be made available at an affordable price via the Goblin NPCs presently dealing in hourglasses." Why this strikes me as odd is because I wonder how this new dynamis will work. If this is instanced (similar to bcnm) how will these "key items" control who can enter? For instance, group of 19 friends want to enter, how can they be sure those 19 friends can enter the same instanced. Or will the new dynamis be capped at 18 ppl per instance similar to KSNM99. If this will not be instanced will more than 1 group be allowed to enter the same zone? A lot of the info provided "Monster distribution will receive drastic revisions." and "Trigger items will be introduced as a new spawn condition for certain notorious monsters (NMs)" make me think SE will either make dynamis instanced while giving us less mobs, or give us a boat load more mobs allowing more groups to enter the same zone at the same time. I'm just curious/concerned about the future of relics and dynamis is all. So enlightenment can I have it? --- On a much more biased side note, I agree with Yopop on the note of not taking the speed bump out of dynamis. Some may say my reasoning is elitist or w/e, but I spent a lot of time and gil (can honestly say I never bought any) to get my relic. I had lots of support and friends help me get mine, but all in all I felt like I made a major accomplishment. I felt kind of shot down when SE brought out these over powered E.weps, but I have moved on and even started to make one of those. Just seeing more ppl get an easy ride to something that was so stressful to obtain is sad to see. So hopefully the degree of difficulty needed to obtain these items will be maintained even if they follow through with these adjustments. Simple logic follows the fact that If something is easy to beat you will only replay it so many times before it looses its hold. If you make the game too easy people will find less and less reason to continue paying for something that gives less and less return (value wise).

hiko

03-08-2011, 06:21 PM

Corres

03-08-2011, 06:24 PM

Lorddraco

03-08-2011, 06:27 PM

Yopop

03-08-2011, 07:07 PM

Yeah I found out the hard way about that. I returned after 22 months and made a party and started snagging people with proper rank. Boy was I wrong, the people were clueless and never been to the zones I was taken them to level.

I disbanded and ran away crying :)

If you think about, it's more of the 'first kid on the block to have the new toy...' -- Rank 10 used to mean something back when the game first came out. Some philosophy.

*~*~*~

Another side note onto this.

I was reading another post and if any old joe can jump into dynamis while a group is in there they can sit back ( ie a BST ) and pick off mobs and basically steal mobs from that alliance.

All it takes is a quick finger for a BST to take a NM in there because @ 90 a BST can solo the NM there. I farm in there as is solo as BST.

Chew

03-08-2011, 07:16 PM

Can enter once per Earth Day. Certain NMs will need trigger items to pop. EXP. Adjustment of drop rates?!.
I'm hoping Dynamis V2.0 is better then V1.0

Is excited.

Dais

03-08-2011, 09:24 PM

I have not stepped into dynamis in over a year. I hope there are more incentives to go than just exp, currency, and old af2.

Tezz

03-08-2011, 09:26 PM

This is exciting news! I agree, there NEED to be good incentives for this. Dynamis is still tedious and boring, i hope they don't add to that with tedious Magian Trials (/sigh).

Vivik

03-08-2011, 09:49 PM

only bad thing i can think about yet:
some linkshells making profit of mercing certain nm's for relic's items of whatever.

They already do. My shell has been mercing drops from Dynamis for years.

Kimiko

03-08-2011, 09:58 PM

Incoming currency price crash, {Do you need it?}

Gadanae

03-08-2011, 10:26 PM

I know I will take fire for this but I don't care.

It's about time that SE woke up and smelled the WOW coffee. There's a reason why Blizzard makes billions on it's games and SE doesn't. It's called "playability".

Look at SE's player base shrinking, shrinking, melting OH what a world. And there's one BIG reason for it. The time it takes to do anything worthwhile in the game. I have been playing this game for 8 years, and frankly I'm applauding SE in it's latest efforts (even though it is quite literally a day late and millions of dollars short).... to make this game more time effective and easier to play, so that good ol' welcome message we recieve when we log in (you know the one, don't forget about your friends family or work).... actually isn't the great SE lie for once. Relics being done in record time! YAY. Currency prices dropping through the floor! YAY. It's about time.

I do agree with some things that have been posted here though. Please SE, make Dynamis instanced, like BCNM's. Do not make it a free-for-all. At least keep SOME of the difficulty in this game so I don't have to deal with 10 year mentality players monopolizing areas of Dynamis. Keep it enjoyable among friends but by all means, make it more accessible. Please don't make me feel that when I walk into Dynamis I just walked into a Kindergarten class.

I guess that's all I have to say about it. Fire at will at me folks.

Tyh

03-08-2011, 10:45 PM

Maybe they are making it instanced, i cannot see 2 Dyna shells sucessfully co operating in dynamis to be honest

lllen

03-09-2011, 01:01 AM

I think this is the end of dyna as we know it. There is a lot on conjecture on what they mean in the dev post, I would hate to see it go the way of Abyssea, and Walk of Echos, (I forgot that area existed, went once that was enough). Changes to the area would be nice, but sounds like they are opening it up to everyone, anytime and if this is true diena will not really exist.

My LS still does it, and its more for the friendly get together, the currency for the leaders relics and the ls bank.

kaht

03-09-2011, 01:26 AM

the currency for the leaders relics

If this is the end of Dynamis, I'll be glad for this reason alone. Never was an event so monopolized to make 1 individual rich on the backs of everyone else's work. Shame on me for doing that event as long as I did....

Ilax

03-09-2011, 01:39 AM

Ilax

03-09-2011, 01:47 AM

I am hoping that SE will finally allow multiple/infinite instances as opposed to just 1 open to all instance how this will work if you plan on entering with more than 1 alliance (not that you need more than 1!) i am not sure, but i like dynamis now with low man groups, no lag, bigger payouts etc, the limit was 64 people iirc so i cannot see how they can just have 1 open instance but you never know with SE!

That day might never happen, if you think about dynamis zone is over 1,000+ monster, asking SE to instance it, is like asking them to buy more server for our need. Doubt that ever happen. Is kinda like asking them instance 'East Ronfaure' and even in that zone there not 1k mob =/ BCNM is generally only couple mob 1~16, and even then they are still limited =/

kaht

03-09-2011, 01:47 AM

only bad thing i can think about yet:
some linkshells making profit of mercing certain nm's for relic's items of whatever.

So, basically how it already is?

Ilax

03-09-2011, 01:49 AM

lucky Dreamlands not affected can still farm AFs/currency without dealing with noob/leech.

"trigger items..." : mean we can pop a same NM several time in a run, or ??? wont repop ? (one run per magian trial)

Can you imagine? LS are already fighting for all zone atm, imagine if all LS now fight for dream zone (lol i can see the chaos inc.)

kaht

03-09-2011, 01:51 AM

Can you imagine? LS are already fighting for all zone atm, imagine if all LS now fight for dream zone (lol i can see the chaos inc.)

Dream zones weren't listed on the list of affected areas.

Ilax

03-09-2011, 01:59 AM

If this is the end of Dynamis, I'll be glad for this reason alone. Never was an event so monopolized to make 1 individual rich on the backs of everyone else's work. Shame on me for doing that event as long as I did....

That the thing, maybe you been in wrong ls idk, in our ls out of 5yr long, none of the sponsor was able to lot on any AF because they was sponsoring, it always been fair enough for who did enter in my dynamis ls and won they AFv2 (free) while sponsor spended 2m / week and 1m/week after SE drop glass to 500k. We all don't know how Dynamis V2 gonna look like, and i am sure the same player will find a way to exploit everyone as usual. You can already see this happening in abyssea, and is reason why so many major linkshell break now, because everyone just got tire putting effort into something they never get anything out of it. They prefer play with friend only, and i thanks SE to have introduce abyssea, but for dynamis i really don't understand.

Ilax

03-09-2011, 02:03 AM

Dream zones weren't listed on the list of affected areas.

I know is my worry too, is obviously like dream still going to be available for 500k glass for who like to play dynamis in the old style. But that just 4 zone left for 8 dynamis ls on my server (fenrir) that run from 8pm est time., can't you see the war begin? Even worse after server merge.

ffxkenshin

03-09-2011, 02:03 AM

just incase:
mobs will yield exp. everytime mobs yield exp you have a group or alliance loot that noone outside your grourp/alliance can access.

only bad thing i can think about yet:
some linkshells making profit of mercing certain nm's for relic's items of whatever.

Even without this change, wasn't there linkshell mercing for anything/everything in FFXI anyway?

We have to wait and see how SE going to do drops, but i doubt it's universal drop pool, and hope it is not.

But I would enjoy the lessened drop restiction from 3days to 1day.

Consider probably only 1% of the gear form dynamis is actually useful in today's lvl cap/gear, and even the relic weapon isn't best anymore, is there really that big of an issue?

Regarding Solo: even now, @ lvl 90 cap, blm can already solo in dynamis as with a few other jobs too, so what's the different?

Ceviilla

03-09-2011, 02:06 AM

I wouldn't mind seeing a change to the Dream zones also! Killing 3 flies in 10 mins with no subjob (iirc) just isn't low-man-able. Maybe it is... I haven't actually tried it because it seems like I'll die. :D Any suggestions?

I know on the other hand everything shouldn't be low-man-able but I want my dnc cape!

Nathos

03-09-2011, 02:09 AM

I actually like Walk of Echoes concept, but sadly it don't work that well. You need strategy and people are too greed to share the looting with others that participate and do their job right, ironic because it's a co-op game/event. I really don't care at all with this change to Dynamis, Relic Armor are old and a lot of people already have most of then. Every Dynamis there are a lot of pieces going for people who will level the job eventually in months or even years from now. Most Relic Armor aren't desired, so I don't see a problem with this at all.

The only Issue will be how Dynamis Lord will work, if it will be a timed pop or "???" pop. It might be overcamped/peple will use bots to claim and we will go back to the HNM drama. The other NMs for Relic Weapons upgrades can be an Issue if a lot of people keep doing then too. But in general, I don't see a problem with it being like WoE or Abyssea at all. Sure the Linkshells that live from coin market will have to find other ways to make money.

To the people doing Relic Weapons, I dunno if it can be any good or not. It will be good because prices can drop and maybe they can just go solo/farm coins without spend gil to enter, but if too much people at same time can be hard. But Dynamis been a lot less popular since Abyssea came. Before it we would have a lot of competition and stress to get a zone after Server Merge on prime time.

Corydor

03-09-2011, 02:13 AM

It could be a good thing as long as 1) they don't introduce atma's into dynamis (super player no thanks) and same goes for brews and 2) if they allowing more than one alliance in the same area they have the mobs respawn so that you can fight as many as you want of the normal mobs if you want just coins or AF and leaves the NM mobs for major groups etc etc maybe dynamis may turn out ok but we will see

Ilax

03-09-2011, 02:13 AM

Even without this change, wasn't there linkshell mercing for anything/everything in FFXI anyway?

We have to wait and see how SE going to do drops, but i doubt it's universal drop pool, and hope it is not.

But I would enjoy the lessened drop restiction from 3days to 1day.

Consider probably only 1% of the gear form dynamis is actually useful in today's lvl cap/gear, and even the relic weapon isn't best anymore, is there really that big of an issue?

Regarding Solo: even now, @ lvl 90 cap, blm can already solo in dynamis as with a few other jobs too, so what's the different?

We all worry it come like WoE or let say campaign at the cost of killing the remaining LS that been doing this event for 2~8yr long.

Sotek

03-09-2011, 02:16 AM

Ilax

03-09-2011, 02:36 AM

I hope they're making Mythic weapons just as easy to obtain now that the cost of Dynamis currency is going to plummet. Really, aside from a few Mythic weapons are completely worthless compared to Relics and Empyreans, or even elemental Trial weapons if you want to compare staves. Yet a Mythic will take you around a year just to collect all the stupid points and redo every assault. I wont even touch on the bad drop rate of ZNM trophies.
If I can buy one hourglass and have it last until the servers shut down, I'd quite like one Assault tag to last me equally as long. Or at least a reduction to the amount of Nyzul tokens/Alexandrite/Ichor needed, or increase to the amount gained from events.

At this point why not just put a new button, and when you press on it, you defeated all NM in the game, get all the drop in the game, all job get Lv99, and a GM pop and say {Congratulations}

i don't like the idea to make everything more easy just because..... It was very nice of SE give us Abyssea to make everyone happy, but i don't think everyone will like the entire game converted into a 'WoW' concept. I already hear people complaining the lack of challenge since abyssea is out... Why don't they let people do they E.Wep and leave Dynamis Relic weapon the top one, even if is by lol-1dmg, still enough to make me feel i did not wasted my time effort into it for 7yr long.

Whitewing

03-09-2011, 03:17 AM

Zebra

03-09-2011, 03:31 AM

ok i freely admit im lazy and cant be bothered to read all these pages but i just have a question which i hope SE will answer....

If you no longer require reservations for dynamis does this mean anyone can just jump in see if some af/currency is in the pot and lot it????

If so why? thats the most stupidest idea ever... I've spent 5 yrs earning dkp points so I can lot gear now they totally worthless as someone from another ls or from no ls at all can swoop in and lot gear earned by others.

please for the love of god SE say you have thought about this and it isnt just lets make dynamis like WoE/Campaign

you saved up DKP? good job digging your own grave, SE didnt make you save up all those DKP, you did, you joined a linkshell with a DKP system. there is a few, if any usefull pieces still in dynamis

THF hands
RDM head

thats it, actually, even the rdm head is useless, you barely resist enfeeble magic unless the mob is immune, and the auto-refresh can be gained from wivre hairpins in abyssea - konch, so congratulations, you wasted 5 years on one piece of gear (which isnt gamebreaking anyhow).

Ilax

03-09-2011, 03:31 AM

They should make E.body drop from Wild Rabbit while they at all this change, why not Twilight gear from the Orc in the same zone.

i feel sorry for you Whitewing, no worry, you not alone feeling that way. Just hope more will post they negative feed back about it.

GERM

03-09-2011, 03:34 AM

My concern about this is if you only need a key item and your still doing static groups can just anyone enter and start lotting on stuff? I find that unfair for some and it will ROYAL tick people off that have done this for years just to get to this point and now just any joe blow can enter and lot on anything since everything fell to anyone in the zone.. Just saying
Also I don't think RMT's are going to flood the market with this if anything anyone can enter after the initial key item purchase and multiple times a week if anything this will drop the price of currency which I will be happy about since I can't afford paying 300M for a relic

Pofo

03-09-2011, 03:38 AM

ok i freely admit im lazy and cant be bothered to read all these pages but i just have a question which i hope SE will answer....

If you no longer require reservations for dynamis does this mean anyone can just jump in see if some af/currency is in the pot and lot it????

If so why? thats the most stupidest idea ever... I've spent 5 yrs earning dkp points so I can lot gear now they totally worthless as someone from another ls or from no ls at all can swoop in and lot gear earned by others.

please for the love of god SE say you have thought about this and it isnt just lets make dynamis like WoE/Campaign

That's how it sounds but SE has done some poor translations of their japanese updates in the past. If that becomes the case, my only suggestion is to make it so the alliance that killed are the only ones who lot. However, the big issue with that, is cases like dynamis xarcabard, say you're in a group after Assassin's Armlets, but then a group of 6 comes in right after you that wants them too, then what? Compete to claim Count Raum? Not saying you can't get them off regular mobs, but the point being, specific mobs like that; that have a higher drop rate at specific AF have a risk of being camped against you.

Tummie

03-09-2011, 03:38 AM

please for the love of god SE say you have thought about this and it isnt just lets make dynamis like WoE/Campaign

I do not believe that this will be the case, but instead, drops will no longer be area wide (People inside and outside can lot loot) and will be party/alliance based. That way if your party or alliance kills, they are the only ones that can lot on the loot and not someone who just jumps into the fray.

DuoMaxwell007

03-09-2011, 03:39 AM

"Reservations will no longer be required to enter the above areas."

umm when did we have to make reservations for dynamis?

Ilax

03-09-2011, 03:42 AM

you saved up DKP? good job digging your own grave, SE didnt make you save up all those DKP, you did, you joined a linkshell with a DKP system. there is a few, if any usefull pieces still in dynamis

THF hands
RDM head

thats it, actually, even the rdm head is useless, you barely resist enfeeble magic unless the mob is immune, and the auto-refresh can be gained from wivre hairpins in abyssea - konch, so congratulations, you wasted 5 years on one piece of gear (which isnt gamebreaking anyhow).

Oh wow great logic... Thank you for making me feel horrible that i spended many yr in FFXI working on my gear. Very smart, so what are you saying here is let get everything now or play another game?

I bet you kind of these player that joined my dynamis LS, took rdm or thf hand then left right always. I wonder how would you have feel after the leader of your LS tell you: Sorry Zebra i got my stuff, sorry good job digging your own grave see you later.

I just pass on your stupid comment about RDM hat.

Ilax

03-09-2011, 03:43 AM

"Reservations will no longer be required to enter the above areas."

umm when did we have to make reservations for dynamis?

Break glass = Reservations 1h from base + time extension.

*Edit* Mean no one except the player in possession of this glass can enter in the zone for 1h + TE.

Siviard

03-09-2011, 03:49 AM

I disagree with some of the above statements saying this new "Dynamis v.2" should be like Walk of Echoes. I have had nightmare-ish experiences in Walk of Echoes, the last (and final nail in the coffin) was an "AFK" Japanese player lotting on any coin that dropped after I finished soloing a monster. That player did nothing but stand there, but had absolutely no problems with lotting coin drops and let me do all the hard work.

Instead, I very much hope that this new Dynamis will be like Abyssea, where you can enter with a party of 6, go to a certain area of the zone, kill monsters, and any currency/AF drops will drop into the party treasure pool and not a zone-wide treasure pool (like Walk of Echoes)

Also, what would help this be more like Abyssea is a fast respawn of normal monsters/statues (5 minute respawn?) and new ways of extending your time within Dynamis, because I am sure there will be groups camping the known Time Extension statue monsters and killing them as soon as they spawn.

Caria

03-09-2011, 03:54 AM

I have invested many years into dynamis and value my time spend with my ls and to find out that anyone can just walk in now and lot anything? Has all my time been for nothing?

I have the same feeling about it, even thinking to quit the game now, same for many of my friend. I loved the challenge SE gave to us, and really thanks them for it. Just wish SE review that update.

Ilax, you are not alone. Dynamis and working toward my relic with a group of faithful friends with whom I have been working for years on end is one of the sole reasons I still log into this game. I have been appalled by many of the changes in the game since the advent of Abyssea and the new level caps. I am a particularly goal driven person. I don't enjoy very many video games because they tend to be very focused on the short-term goals. I fell in love with FFXI when I found out how hard a game it really was, when I realized I could have goals that extended several years out and be successfully working toward those goals. I joined a dynamis group a number of years ago and made a lot of friends that way. The dynamis system was challenging if a little repetitive, but I felt things were balanced very well. I particularly liked the fact that it allowed a system for needing many people working together to empower each other, one at a time, to get their relic weapons, the best weapons in the game (at the time). I never took issue with the fact that others were getting their relic before me. We were all enjoying ourselves and taking on the challenge of clearing these zones, or even just getting wins. It took hard work on the part of everyone there.

In the recent updates, this has largely changed. While there is a key core of my group that has come together, we are small, because the rewards of dynamis have largely been outdated and the new level caps have largely taken the challenge out of these areas. Our core group still works together, and we manage to recruit new people often, though they don't stay long because the experience of working together is so much less rewarding when the challenge is gone. To a large extent the damage has already been done. I have been hoping for a revamping of Dynamis, but not to make it easier and more accessible, but harder and more challenging with the same currency rewards and hopefully a new way to make the relic armor more competitive.

I am very concerned about the future of Dynamis now after reading this new information. Removing the need for reservation sounds like making it like the WoE, which at least on my server, has been a very failed system. While many people have been discouraged by the fact that traditional Dynamis shells worked by getting one person in the shell the relic before the next stepped up, I found this to be an exceptionally well designed system when it worked among loyal friends. I have been working for a number of months now on my relic with the help of my group, and there are people still waiting in line. It concerns me that these people may never get their chance, if this new system makes the system open to all and we have to compete for currency.

I am glad to see from the posts here that I am not the only person worried about these changes. I understand the need to make the game accessible to new people to keep it alive and profitable. But this does not mean that everything has to be made easy. Give the new people competitive gear, but don't have it be equal to the gear that people have worked years to obtain. SE, you gave the new people Abyssea, WoE, Campaign, etc. Do you really have to give them Dynamis and the relics too? Please, don't make this a free for all. Let the shells that have been functioning for many years continue.

Momohko

03-09-2011, 05:33 AM

I just hope SE wake up and realize there are people who still play this game who DO NOT enjoy WoW. I for one enjoy the challenges in FFXI I have been playing since NA release and I love this game very deeply. Many people say the game is to easy now and I wish to dissagree with that, sure there are some things that are easy(many people with afv3+1 or random afv3+2, but people with full set afv3+2 is kinda rare. also people with e wep lvl 90... ) I enjoy die-ina-mess even tho at times it can be kind of lasting long, but I do enjoy that we all work together to help our friend obtain their relic. Our dyna shell is probably rare in the fact that many of us are close friend so it is nothing like someone is leeching to get their relic weapon, they work their toosh to make the gil to sponsor every week also they don't get to lot af. SE please for the love of Altana if you have any ... I thank you for making the game more enjoyable with small group of friends but please do not devalue this game, I mean I LOVE love love love the challenges in game it makes it worthwhile to play, it makes the feeling of accomplishment really great. If something is easy to obtain the feeling of accomplishment at the end of completion doesn't feel that great T.T. I hope this is a mistranslation in some way. I wouldn't mind if multiple shells could enter at the same time sort of like a bcnm but not be together in the zone seeing each other, I do have faith although for SE tho to make this game more progressive I have hope for the people leading ffxi.

Nosdda

03-09-2011, 05:53 AM

Where as I enjoy the one day re-entry time, I still think SE is going to ruin this if they turn this into another WOE. If they KI the zones, how are you limit the people you want to go in with, I surely don't want to sit around and compete with anyone that can zone in. I do dyna as low man with my ls and it keeps it simple and fun. If they turn it into an Abyssea like zone, I don't see how it would really work; zones like Sandy and Bastok are way to small to hold large amounts of people. Even then if anyone can just go, we -know- people will hold mobs and monopolize zones. On top of that, if they did make it able for groups to go in by themselves, if they don't somehow instant the zones, no one will be able to enter with fighting for it. I also won't be surprised if SE doesn't sneak in what they did with Campaign and up the mobs level caps to make them harder for low man shells to even do well in the zones.

Wojo

03-09-2011, 05:54 AM

Wenceslao

03-09-2011, 05:55 AM

i hate WoW....

Wenceslao

03-09-2011, 05:56 AM

I don't care if Relic sets are obsolette, the simply joy of having one, makes dynamis worth the while...

Starcade

03-09-2011, 05:59 AM

Yinnyth

03-09-2011, 06:00 AM

First some background information on me. For almost 6 years now, I have had the privelige of leading one of the most successful and longest-lived Dynamis linkshells in the game, Trutle. Before me, it was led by 2 other people who took me in as a member and taught me everything they knew about Dynamis. Our linkshell has 2 gjallarhorns, 2 aegis', 1 apocalypse, 1 bravura, 1 amanomurakumo, and 1 mandau, all of which are currently at their level 90 form, and all of which are actively used by members in our linkshell. There are more than a half-dozen more relics our linkshell has had sponsors complete over the years, but those members are no longer with us.

I love Dynamis in it's current form, because it is the epitome of what I love about FFXI itself: "knowlege is power". I have played other MMORPGs, but all of them pale in comparison to FFXI because I have never seen any MMO in which knowlege is such a powerful tool, and nowhere in the game is this so evident as Dynamis. If you had random other players take control of all my linkshell's characters, they would not have half the success in Dynamis that we have, because they would know jack about its intricacies. I know how to pull the stones in sandy at the east and west ronfaure gates without linking. I know how to pull the Yagudo stones 1 at a time at Yoran-Oran's manor. I know how to use 3 blms to split the pull of 6 vanguard eyes before the Vanguard Dragon in half without sacrificing anyone. I know that Diabolos Diamond doesn't melee, but he does cast spells, use weapon skills when he gets TP, and every 2 minutes he'll use nightmare (20' AoE around his current target) and then follow it up with 1-6 Daydreams (single target charm, 1 minute duration) which you can outrun provided you stay out of range of nightmare when his 2 minute cycle is up, thus reducing the number of people he can charm to 1. I could fill books with the things I know about Dynamis which no one else bothers to learn or remember, and THAT is why my linkshell is so successful. If you take that away:

•Monster distribution will receive drastic revisions.
then we have nothing. Every other newbie who doesn't know the difference between an Avatar Icon and Manifest Icon will be able to do just as well us.

Combined with other factors, this update will be the Mercy Stroke for our linkshell. Trutle is made up of members from several different linkshells. They come to us because our knowlege and skill brings us success. They come to us because we have sponsors who pay for the hourglass. They come to us because we're an established linkshell with a reliable schedule and grizzled veterans who know what they're doing. And perhaps most importantly, they keep coming back because we know how to make Dynamis fun.

Dynamis does have it's problems. I've sent various feedback slips through the system and talked to a few GMs over the years, though none of my concerns or suggestions ever really got through which gives me little hope that I will be heard here either. The problems with Dynamis boil down to one basic problem: too much difficulty, not enough reward. The fix I wanted to see was to make Dynamis more rewarding, not make it easier and more accessible. Come to think of it, I want Dynamis to be harder if anything. But throughout the years, SE has constantly been applying the wrong fixes to Dynamis. They've increased the relic armor drop rate twice now, and it's gotten to the point where my linkshell frequently has 9 pieces of relic armor in the loot pool which causes all other drops to sort instantly without giving them a chance to get lotted. We don't need easier to obtain AF2- most of us are already maxed out on the stuff. We need better stats on AF2, a way to upgrade it more than just +1, and some new challenges.

If all of this is implemented exactly as it has been stated in [dev1000], I don't think I will have what it takes to hold my linkshell together any longer, and I will be losing my favorite event in the entire game. So please, think this over a little more.

Birdkiller

03-09-2011, 06:17 AM

I have run into a problem with my own Dynamis LS I help run. Lately we have been having to do the same 2 city zones due to a couple of lowman groups, and the fact that Dynamis Beaucidine will always be taken because of relic weapon upgrades. Even starting as early as possible, people on the east coast will always be there before we even start getting ready. Changing days isn't an option for us either :< since our current ones allow for everyone to make it twice a week. I wish there was a way to actually reserve a zone ahead of time, or at the very least be able to have two instances of the same zone running so we can move a couple of people that need the Beaucidine Clear through it.

Ilax

03-09-2011, 06:17 AM

I am allergic to Dynamis 1.0.

5 hours twice a week helping someone get an all powerful relic with the hopes I can have a chance to get a now obsolete piece of gear?.... Hah, I never liked that event and I never will. Everyone that attends Dynamis immediately logs out afterwards because its so draining. Currently having a dynamis relic is the biggest trophy you can have. The big name shells in the game all monopolize their member's time and create mandatory attendance for Dynamis so their leaders can have these big name items.

If the dev team changes this racket, I for one welcome the change. Those shells rely on currency as a way to become super rich. Its going to be an interesting change for sure. Yah, I'm not going to lie, theres one or two pieces of armor that I wouldn't mind having. But theres no way i'm going to put the hundreds of hours climbing the point ladder in a given linkshell to be able to get it.

If dynamis 2.0 makes it fun and brings back a little more diversity to the game, I for one welcome the changes.

Must be very long time you did a dynamis run :( Our ls only have 12~14 member max, they all end to win 1 to 3 AF per run, most of us not doing it anymore for AF (that been a while we not looking at it) Over 5yr i can tell you, our ls been a social event more then anything else on Wed/Sun where everyone hope on skype, make joke, pop youtube video, talk about everything.

One of us got Shadow Ring last night with only 42 point, member are getting ~10 point /week, is by far not horrible as it was back before abyssea where everyone was deleveling and crying for R3, ppl actually yell to get R1 because who care about exp lost now? I don't even know who in my ls need RDM hat or THF hand >< at last news someone had it in his comment for his mule, and only because no one else needed....

Kitkat

03-09-2011, 06:20 AM

My biggest issue with this announcement is that it will interfere with LS that do dynamis for the sake of upgrading relics specifically. Everyone has worked their butts off to obtain the necessary requirements and now we find out that the Dev team is planning to change restrictions/requirements to entering? I'm sorry, I don't find this announcement as useful at all to anyone, it just turns everything into a free-for-all lot fest against people that otherwise can't work with a group. I'm speaking from an LS point of view, not a low man group. I still have a LS with 20~30 active members still showing up, now we are going to have to worry about people randomly jumping in to ruin a set system that has worked for the past 4 years without a hitch.

The selling of currency has never really disturbed the economic structure of the game, nor has it been outright abused. If it isn't broke, why fix it? I don't want "Walk of Dynamis" in the least.

sandman

03-09-2011, 06:58 AM

I completely disagree with Yopop. I think the dynamis refinement are a great idea, its too bad its taken so long for SE to implement it.

GERM

03-09-2011, 07:05 AM

My biggest issue with this announcement is that it will interfere with LS that do dynamis for the sake of upgrading relics specifically

I agree with this now SqEnix decides to make everyone happy and just let the random person in with no care for preset rules of LS's that have done this for years, you get random people in there (especially at first due to the currency prices) who are going to lot EVERYTHING they want and it throws off the balance of people who have been working their buts off for the last year or two upgrading and now you have to share with someone who is in it just for the gil.. Not to mention most LS who do this have set rules of lotting relics what do you thinks going to happen when you get just anyone in on a run in xarcabard? everyone and their brother are lotting on THF hands or RDM and BLM head.. what about the participation effect? Is it going to be like it is now you enter you can lot anything in the pool or is it going to be set to drop to an alliance? Dynamis is going to get stupid if you have a single person sitting at the entrance just lotting everything and not participating... I mean if SqEnix is going to set time limits like abyssea and drop everything killed by an alliance to an alliance then I can see this working but if the rules stay the same this is going to become a terrible idea.. Is it going to be unlimited amount of time and you can log in and out of it whenever you want, once your out you have 24 hours to re-enter? I think there is more going on then we are aware of since all the details haven't been released yet but I am kinda concerned about this at the same time if the drops change to a alliance system like everywhere else then it wont be so bad to go in and kill mobs in an alliance on a daily basis it will greatly improve the speed of upgrading a relic.. on the other hand if its going to be unorganized chaos then like i said its going to be worthless to do

Yinnyth

03-09-2011, 07:15 AM

I'm fairly certain the lotting on items will be changed, it is pointless to complain about loot distribution. They could go abyssea mode with it where your claim = your loot, or they could go campaign/WoE mode where your "effort" = your loot. The big problem will be that there will be competition inside the run for the stuff you want. Competition that you can't accurately gauge until you enter and take a look. If you enter to take a look, you're stuck. You can't decide "Oh, crowd looks rough in Windy today, let's head for Xarc, guys."

Momohko

03-09-2011, 07:19 AM

Do you realize how much many of the elite players spit at your concepts?

Most of the players who consider themselves elite want to dictate what value this game has (to them AND to you) by devaluing aspects of the game (as you define it).

We need to fight this, tooth and nail...

I know they spit at my concepts, they spit at anything that does not let them monopolize people in their ls full of "numbers"(they have many people in their ls but their ratio of who gets rewards and items is well quite unbalance, this may be due to many things.) Many "elite players" try to dictate what has value and what does not, but personally I think everything has a different value to different people. This for example a piece of gear might be highly valuable to one player but another play might say something like oh well its just Freya's feet. Just because something isn't highly valuable to one, doesn't mean someone else might have been trying to get it for a long time it might be highly valuable to them and yes I fully agree we need to fight this tooth and nail. I think something unique to FFXI is the feeling upon completion of a goal in game, I have played many many other MMO and this game is unique in the fact that I feel rly great upon completing my goals where as in other games it feels as such some menial task @.@;;

Mojo

03-09-2011, 07:29 AM

Given that they said NMs will be popped by trigger items, I think it's pretty safe to assume that loot is going to be exclusive to parties/alliances.

I'm not going to shed a single tear for old Dynamis, it's always been flawed. Relic weaopns were too difficult to obtain and 90% of those who obtained them did it by either exploiting others or piggybacking on the hard work of their friends (something I'd never ask my friends to do, honestly.) AF2 was mostly useless, although with the recent announcements, it's pretty clear that you'll probably be able to augment them somehow to bring them up to par.

Dynamis can currently be done with very few people anyways. I six manned Xarc the other week. I welcome the new adjustments. It will be nice to casually do dynamis with pick up groups. There's no reason your linkshell cannot still continue to function. With the amount of people you have who still go there's no reason why you couldn't do events. I'm sure your core players will still enjoy going together. Maybe I'll come along too?

Ilax

03-09-2011, 11:25 AM

Diamoness

03-09-2011, 01:32 PM

Please allow us to use maps within Dynamis also. There is no reason not to be able to use the map if you have the area's map. Granted most people know their way that have been playing for a while, but being able to access your map is useful in situations.

Alhanelem

03-09-2011, 01:39 PM

If you no longer require reservations for dynamis does this mean anyone can just jump in see if some af/currency is in the pot and lot it????No. They're totally revamping dynamis. Do you really think they're going to keep the global treasure pool when they allow multiple different groups and people to enter at the same time? They're not turning it into a walk of echoes battle, they're turning it into an open area, with the NMs/bosses being popped instead of just up.

ZeDingo

03-09-2011, 02:01 PM

Alhanelem

03-09-2011, 02:18 PM

If SE is going to keep Dynamis going and keep merging servers, they better get their act together and make Dyna an instance like in WoW. Trying to coordinate runs with several thousand other people is kind of a serious pain, especially since we don't all speak the same language. Did you read the news post at all? They're already changing dynamis so you don't need to schedule runs anymore...

It's not going to be instanced. It's going to be an open area with the bosses being popped NMs.

Yinnyth

03-09-2011, 02:28 PM

If Dynamis winds up dumbed down to become a casual event where any average Joe can get a relic weapon, my big question becomes: "Where in Vana'diel is there any challenge left?"

Granted, Dynamis has been gradually been getting easier and easier as time goes by and level caps are raised, but it really was the biggest challenge the game had ever seen. With Dynamis going casual, there is no longer any endgame. It's just nonstop midgame, which has never been what FFXI was about. There's always been something that would beat you toothless if you made a single slip up or didn't quite have the strategy down quite right, and striving to conquer those things are what made the game fun to me.

ZeDingo

03-09-2011, 02:33 PM

Did you read the news post at all? They're already changing dynamis so you don't need to schedule runs anymore...

It's not going to be instanced. It's going to be an open area with the bosses being popped NMs.

Yeah, because we haven't had problems with crowding at pop bosses in Abyssea/everywhere else.

Starcade

03-09-2011, 02:36 PM

Did you read the news post at all? They're already changing dynamis so you don't need to schedule runs anymore...

It's not going to be instanced. It's going to be an open area with the bosses being popped NMs.

By my read, it sounds like it's going to be an open area with NMs being cockblocked by jackalopes who demand 500K or you'll never see a meaningful NM.

Yeah, Square-Enix, nice improvement.

Tazz

03-09-2011, 02:39 PM

I still help run a strong Dynamis LS, and these changes are both scary and exciting. We have worked hard over the years to create and run our LS. It would be really terrible if some random person could just enter your dynamis zone and lot your hard earned gear like they do in Walk of Echoes. The lower re-entry time would be very nice. I just hope it will be fair to the sponsor's and their need/want for all the required coins for their relic weapon. Please allow our LS to still only run as a LS completely separate of people we don't want in our zone. You all know the types, the ninja lotters the players who lot a level 75 piece and that job is only level 5 or not even unlocked... I trust SE to fix it however I do not really believe it is broken to begin with... Why fix what isn't broken? (let the flames begin but I only wanted to speak my mind) (yes the drop rates could be better esp for those 'elusive' drops but it is what it is)

ZeDingo

03-09-2011, 02:40 PM

By my read, it sounds like it's going to be an open area with NMs being cockblocked by jackalopes who demand 500K or you'll never see a meaningful NM.

Yeah, Square-Enix, nice improvement.

So instead of relics involving a lot of work, it'll be like trying to claim Faf/Nid and some other overcamped botted world bosses. Or like sky back in the day.

Not going back to Dyna, that's for sure.

Burmecia

03-09-2011, 02:53 PM

By my read, it sounds like it's going to be an open area with NMs being cockblocked by jackalopes who demand 500K or you'll never see a meaningful NM.

Yeah, Square-Enix, nice improvement.

But isn't dynamis drops available to everyone in zone even outside of party/alliance? Not that it would make the situation any better, since any regular Joe can lot on anything they want (even if it's meaningless to them and they did nothing to help etcetc).

But, I'm still remaining hopeful that this isn't going to be like WoE, and more-so instanced like Salvage or something. Really hope. D:

Mojo

03-09-2011, 02:54 PM

SE already gave E.Wep as alternative, why trying to kill Dynamis relic weapon now? There a limit to transform everything in the game, as i said many time, dynamis was just something that not many loved or able to manage, never been something not accessible. What SE is about to do is just mess up the last even in the game that require devotion from multi player.

If you admit that not many people liked it, then what's wrong with them changing it? It was an awfully boring and flawed event. A three hour marathon that was exciting at first but that quickly became a highly mundane labour in which only one or two people reaped the rewards of the hard work of several others isn't exactly my idea of fun or good. Changes like this should have come years ago, to be honest.

Dynamis is no exception as to what requires fewer people these days. A party of six strong players could clear every town zone at 75 cap. I'm sure that just a duo of a RDM + MNK could do it too at 90. Relic weapons are the same as always were. They require an unnecessary amount of coin grinding to complete and the end result is quite mediocre in most cases.

I don't think this patch will "kill" relic weapons by any means. Dynamis was previously on the outs because the gear was obsolete and nobody liked the event. People are actually considering doing it now and AF2 might actually become useful pieces of gear. That's perhaps the most that anybody who liked Dynamis could ever hope for. I think instead of cradling their relics like a wounded child while berating the announced changes, relic holders should embrace what is to come and be hopeful. What I would like to see is the difficulty of obtaining relic weapons be mitigated while also adjusting the strength of their weaponskills and perhaps increasing the frequency of the triple damage procs. Honestly, relic weapons were mediocre before Abyssea, it just took a while for people to catch on.

Starcade

03-09-2011, 02:57 PM

But isn't dynamis drops available to everyone in zone even outside of party/alliance? Not that it would make the situation any better, since any regular Joe can lot on anything they want (even if it's meaningless to them and they did nothing to help etcetc).

But, I'm still remaining hopeful that this isn't going to be like WoE, and more-so instanced like Salvage or something. Really hope. D:

Except for one thing: You knew, for the most part, who you were going in with, because you reserved the zone and you paid 500,000 gil for it.

Taking that away is going to make Dynamis into a bot-filled piece of... excrement run by bot-filled pieces of... excrement.

Mojo

03-09-2011, 03:01 PM

By my read, it sounds like it's going to be an open area with NMs being cockblocked by jackalopes who demand 500K or you'll never see a meaningful NM.

Yeah, Square-Enix, nice improvement.

This is perhaps the most unlikely situation to occur if the NMs are popped by triggers. It demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge or experience in other facets of the game.

For instance, almost every NM in Abyssea is popped by a trigger. Nobody can block you out of them. They might be able to pop one before you if they spam the ???. It's just luck really. But you're stopping them just as much as they're stopping you and with 1 minute ??? repops it's not even a big deal. The only thing that they can do is perhaps try and hold an NM so that the ??? can repop. If this is the case, you can simply GM them (it is against the ToS.)

ZeDingo

03-09-2011, 03:10 PM

This is perhaps the most unlikely situation to occur if the NMs are popped by triggers. It demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge or experience in other facets of the game.

For instance, almost every NM in Abyssea is popped by a trigger. Nobody can block you out of them. They might be able to pop one before you if they spam the ???. It's just luck really. But you're stopping them just as much as they're stopping you and with 1 minute ??? repops it's not even a big deal. The only thing that they can do is perhaps try and hold an NM so that the ??? can repop. If this is the case, you can simply GM them (it is against the ToS.)

"It demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge or experience in other facets of the game."

??? mark repops 1 minute after NM dies, not 1 minute after you pop it.

Starcade

03-09-2011, 03:12 PM

This is perhaps the most unlikely situation to occur if the NMs are popped by triggers. It demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge or experience in other facets of the game.

For instance, almost every NM in Abyssea is popped by a trigger. Nobody can block you out of them. They might be able to pop one before you if they spam the ???. It's just luck really. But you're stopping them just as much as they're stopping you and with 1 minute ??? repops it's not even a big deal. The only thing that they can do is perhaps try and hold an NM so that the ??? can repop. If this is the case, you can simply GM them (it is against the ToS.)

... presuming the GMs will actually do something about it.

Spend some time in Abyssea, and you will see the cockblockers out in full force at prime times.

I once was ordered to pay somebody not to block us from getting a Heqet.

I told him to kiss my entire rotund behind.

I was also then expelled from my alliance.

ZeDingo

03-09-2011, 03:14 PM

... presuming the GMs will actually do something about it.

And if you would've reported them for it, you would have gotten a form letter response from a GM telling you to go to the site and report them to the STFU. Average wait time for retribution: 5-7 days.

Starcade

03-09-2011, 03:26 PM

And if you would've reported them for it, you would have gotten a form letter response from a GM telling you to go to the site and report them to the STFU. Average wait time for retribution: 5-7 days.

If they even cared to do so.

This quote from a law website sums up my feelings about the GM's and Square-Enix' desire to enforce the rules:

"Fraud is generally defined in the law as an intentional misrepresentation of material existing fact made by one person to another with knowledge of its falsity and for the purpose of inducing the other person to act, and upon which the other person relies with resulting injury or damage. Fraud may also be made by an omission or purposeful failure to state material facts, which nondisclosure makes other statements misleading."

Mojo

03-09-2011, 04:50 PM

... presuming the GMs will actually do something about it.

Spend some time in Abyssea, and you will see the cockblockers out in full force at prime times.

I once was ordered to pay somebody not to block us from getting a Heqet.

I told him to kiss my entire rotund behind.

I was also then expelled from my alliance.

Nice try with the veteran card attempt there, but with four full sets AF3+2, a completed Verethragna, a nearly completed Kannagi and a nearly 80 Ukonsvarasa I'm certain I've easily experienced more Abyssea than you. Certainly enough to say that your complaints are a bunch of nonsense. Competition there is really not that bad. Turn back the clock a little and perhaps compare it to other elements of the game. The disruption that RMT could cause in sky due to the non trigger nature of the NMs there, for instance, heavily exceeded any sort of disruption that I've ever encountered in Abyssea.

"It demonstrates a complete lack of knowledge or experience in other facets of the game."

??? mark repops 1 minute after NM dies, not 1 minute after you pop it.

Perhaps you missed the part where I covered this by bringing up the GM? If you don't think they respond, maybe try calling them when you have a legitimate issue. I've seen an SGM pop up for this exact purpose within about 15 minutes of being called.

Alhanelem

03-09-2011, 05:53 PM

Yeah, because we haven't had problems with crowding at pop bosses in Abyssea/everywhere else.
You don't need to kill the bosses that often, since they don't drop stuff anyway (I suppose, they might after this change, but I somewhat doubt that.)

"Where in Vana'diel is there any challenge left?"Relics are hardly the ultimate challenge in the game, even without these dynamis changes. Mythics are harder and more time consuming in every way, and empyreans are harder, though probably less time consuming, as the NMs are enough of a challenge that you need some help, whereas any dynamis group that can plow through Dynamis, which hasn't been a challenge for a while, can kill the couple NMs you need to advance stages. PW and AV are still hard challenges, even though they are quite beatable now.

By my read, it sounds like it's going to be an open area with NMs being cockblocked by jackalopes who demand 500K or you'll never see a meaningful NM.I've never met a group that demanded gil to let you have a turn at a pop NM. I've never seen such a major backlog that this could even possibly happen in abyssea. Once in a while you get a moron who is trying and failing at soloing something just for the sake of doing so, but this doesn't happen that often. I also call BS on the story where your ally leader asked you to pay someone else to not cause trouble. That is just so preposterous that it just can't be believed. Even if I were to accept the story as true, the reason why the *leader* of the group shouldn't be the one making the bribe is... why?

Yeah, Square-Enix, nice improvement. You're right. It is a nice improvement. Yes, I know you were being sarcastic, but I'm not.

Ilax

03-09-2011, 07:52 PM

ringthree

03-09-2011, 10:44 PM

This is a rough Google translation about the changes to Dynamis by a Dev this morning EST.

Thanks for posting!

Dynamis design changes are quite so high-impact story
I think we are more anxious.

Check the specification has been believed to be particularly necessary in the progression of this thread.
Since assuming the current specification only, that there may be changes
Please confirm the assumption.

----------

* The exclusive right of monsters and loot
Will be treated the same as normal field.
I think you'll conspicuous imagine the same format as it captures Abisea.

* The loot drop rate
For costumes and Relic is not expected to change.
For the money, so more opportunities to try to reduce the number of times I tried to get one,
Tuned to a slight increase in circulation throughout the world.

azjazo

03-10-2011, 01:34 AM

Well, i am waiting to see how all this going, if is another 'too easy' implementation of SE to obtain relic weapon, even after what they made already [E.Wep], then i guess ill invest my 20$ into something that bring me a better challenge. SE is a company and i can understand they wan the mass instead of quality, so be it. I just hope they know what they are doing.

I for sure /welcome alternative from SE (like they did for E.Wep and AFV3) but not to the point crash all what they made just because mr. lazy is unhappy to not be on top of everything, to me is lack of respect for they hardcore player.

I roll my eyes every time I see someone pointing the "easy" way the game is becoming and its starting to hurt my eyes.

And making relics easy to get is not making "mr lazy" on the top, cuz the top has just been raised, and it will further be reaised once we get to 99, so the "mr masochist" can still grind the hell out of the new fancy e-peen enhanching gear it will be abalible or if they love their relics so much, SE is going to (and already has) provide ways to upgrade said gear to the point it will rival the newer sets, let people lazy their way to the "NQ relic" and you can work for the HQ instead...

katoplepa

03-10-2011, 02:18 AM

I think SE saw the successfull of Abyssea-system and now try to apply the same method on Dynamis :

you can take your KI (like traverser stone), enter Dynamis, search for Time Extension (like in Abyssea), find your spot to exp and kill monster, get your treasure pool with your currency (only you and your party can lot on it), force pop your Count Raum and take your Assassin's Armlets, and so on...

no worryes guys, it will be great...

and maybe SE will introduce some new items to drop...

anyway, dunno about DL how can it be... maybe it will be like some Abyssea-boss : force pop after some KI

kaht

03-10-2011, 02:31 AM

That the thing, maybe you been in wrong ls idk, in our ls out of 5yr long, none of the sponsor was able to lot on any AF because they was sponsoring, it always been fair enough for who did enter in my dynamis ls and won they AFv2 (free) while sponsor spended 2m / week and 1m/week after SE drop glass to 500k. We all don't know how Dynamis V2 gonna look like, and i am sure the same player will find a way to exploit everyone as usual. You can already see this happening in abyssea, and is reason why so many major linkshell break now, because everyone just got tire putting effort into something they never get anything out of it. They prefer play with friend only, and i thanks SE to have introduce abyssea, but for dynamis i really don't understand.

A whole day late on my reply... Anyway - most relic armor has always been sorta meh... Some of it is downright terrible (SAM). There's a few key pieces that are highly desirable (THF hands, RDM hat). I can't think of any other pieces that are going to make or break you if you don't have them. So, your ls leaders didn't get to lot on any relic armor? Big deal... So the ls leaders spent 1-2m a week to pay for entry glasses. Big deal... When you're making AT LEAST double that in currency drops, that 1-2m a week seems like a pretty insubstantial cost. When all those leaders have to do is purchase a glass and show up 2 times a week, they are getting rich on the backs of everyone else.

It's like going to a carnival and dishing out 20 dollars for tickets to win cheap stuffed animals and plastic spider rings. Most relic armor are just trinkets.

Any dynamis ls that doesn't give payouts or split the currency drops with members (minus the cost of the glass) is just using it's members to get rich. If your dynamis leaders keep all the currency for themselves, you're getting scammed. You've been getting scammed for 5 years. Sorry.

GERM

03-10-2011, 03:10 AM

If this is the end of Dynamis, I'll be glad for this reason alone. Never was an event so monopolized to make 1 individual rich on the backs of everyone else's work. Shame on me for doing that event as long as I did....

spending 500k (was 1m) per run and making gil off this was not a monopoly if you wanted to upgrade relics this was a must and now its a reduced entry time and hopefully a increased currency output for quicker upgrades. I will one day have to achieve this and I hope my shell keeps doing it despite what is to come, problem is if they reduce drops to alliance/party then a lot of people are going to get screwed in the long run from shells since there are still a limited amount of people that can be in an alliance and sometimes memebers participation exceeds 18 people..

kaht

03-10-2011, 03:36 AM

spending 500k (was 1m) per run and making gil off this was not a monopoly

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/monopoly

exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market

Although a ls leader keeping all the currency for themselves could be loosely defined as an "exclusive control of a commodity in a particular market", I'll agree with you that it's probably not strictly defined as a monopoly. It's still a BS system and a complete scam over all the other members of a ls that are doing equal parts work for little, to no reward for their effort.

As I stated above, most relic armor drops are near useless so what incentive does a linkshell member have to show up and farm a person his relic weapon for him?

I'll assume you're of legal age to hold a job. Would you go to work every day to make your company lots of money if they paid you with peanuts?

And regarding your comment that hosting linkshell runs to keep all the currency for yourself is the only way to build a relic weapon - there are plenty of people over the years that have built relic weapons by simply making money doing non-dynamis related content, and purchasing all the coins. There are linkshells out there that split the currency with their members to sell, and coins that drop in union pools - somebody is out there buying these coins.

Ilax

03-10-2011, 03:56 AM

I roll my eyes every time I see someone pointing the "easy" way the game is becoming and its starting to hurt my eyes.

And making relics easy to get is not making "mr lazy" on the top, cuz the top has just been raised, and it will further be reaised once we get to 99, so the "mr masochist" can still grind the hell out of the new fancy e-peen enhanching gear it will be abalible or if they love their relics so much, SE is going to (and already has) provide ways to upgrade said gear to the point it will rival the newer sets, let people lazy their way to the "NQ relic" and you can work for the HQ instead...

You amusing me when you calling hardcore player 'masochist', seriously if we not happy we just going to look for something else, it call a challenge my friend, obviously you have no clue what that word mean, that explain how you end to use the word 'e-peen' again me. I never cared about my mandau, if you would know me better, my search comment in FFXI for last 2 YR say: MANDAU IS A DA$N GA$BAG$. So ya before thinking it just make me feel better then anyone else, do more research. You mix up everything, also when you say:

if they love their relics so much, SE is going to (and already has) provide ways to upgrade said gear to the point it will rival the newer sets

Having an option to upgrade relic weapon, and having SE turn what took us 2yr to accomplish now possible to finish in 2 month is huh... different story.... Destroying an even that still have people loving to do even after 7yr just because mr.lazy was not loving the even from base is again .... Like i said, is not like SE did not gave alternative to dynamis gear/relic, And before reborn dynamis, why not reborn Sky, Sea, Campaign and so much more where clearly no one care anymore? No one even love that much WoE, why not issue that first instead?

And just a reminder for your love of the 'too easy' game mode, back in the time when people was looking at someone with maat cap, they was amaze about the work, everyone now can get a maat cap, even the noobest player in FFXI that freshly joined FFXI can do it in 1 month. So ya, don't expect same respect because now is nothing exceptional anymore.

Is same story as Real Life, you can have a 150,000$ house or a 1,500,000$ house, that change zip nothing outside be proud of your success, again there always hater to say how you cheated everyone to get what you have, that parts never going to change (In game or in RL).

Hint, as far i know, most are scared by the communist and strongly think capitalist is the best system in the world, but these same people are crying of the injustice about how some have more then other, choose your side, and stop complaining. (Not arguing about what system is the best, capitalist or communist imo are both the same, just different way to work around, none are perfect and of course can be handle the wrong way, so please don't derail with this part, not opening a door of discussion for political/doctrine issue.) Was just pointing how in general everyone like to complain about everything to have the best world for they self, and careless about other.

On side note, i never looked at anyone gear, that part never made me care, same as in RL i never look if the the grass of my neighbor is more green then mine. Anyone that know me on fenrir know i never look at they gear, ive been leader for 6yr long, and anyone can tell you they had to ask me: Ilax /check me, look what i got. Because i never look at them, not even to my friend, the only one i like to check in game is* Ext, but that another story line...

The only part that always frustrated me is when i see stupid thing like a RDM with Duelist's chapeau doing his enf. magic with Vermillion Cloak or a BLM trying to sleep monster with his super MAB setup and i can point more... Outside that, i really don't care, i saw way too many skilled player with poor gear doing 100x better. Of course, who have the best gear can mean they have lots of experience and they know how to play they job, but hey, that was not even close to be true for 8yr long, and for sure you can expect that be even more false now.

Is SE choice to do what they want and is my choice to play the game or not, so yes, am just waiting to see how it is, like i said this sound scary idea to me (to not say real bad idea).

Anyway, think there enough said here.

kaht

03-10-2011, 04:10 AM

Here is some additional info!

* Monster claim and item drops will work as usual.

Kinda makes it sound like drops will go into a universal pool. Yay WoE2

Alhanelem

03-10-2011, 04:12 AM

But, I'm still remaining hopeful that this isn't going to be like WoE, and more-so instanced like Salvage or something. Really hope. D: It's not going to be instanced. But given that SE is revamping WoE, I extremely doubt they would be keeping the global loot pool. Why is everyone assuming this is going to turn into walk of echoes, especially when walk of echoes itself is also being revamped?

But, I'm still remaining hopeful that this isn't going to be like WoE, and more-so instanced like Salvage or something. Really hope. D: It's not a scam. everyone else is getting a pile of free equipment for their trouble. What it IS, is the only way to complete a relic in a reasonable time frame.The only reason anoyne see this as a scam is because of the price currency goes for (which IS a scam because it's way higher than it should be, and WAY WAY higher than it will hopefully be when dynamis cost is reduced even further and made more accessible). However, with the Mythic and Empyrean weapons, which mostly only cost time (no one sells alexandrite anymore), Relics cost lots of time plus gil. Any attempt to defray that cost should not be seen as a scam, especially because the relics aren't even superior to weapons that are cheap as free.

Kinda makes it sound like drops will go into a universal pool. Yay WoE2
No, it's not WoE2:

* The exclusive right of monsters and loot
Will be treated the same as normal field.
I think you'll conspicuous imagine the same format as it captures Abisea.
"The same as normal field" meaning normal field areas e.g. any regular area of the game and the second line basically says "similar to abyssea."

Whitewing

03-10-2011, 04:14 AM

Here is some additional info!

* Monster claim and item drops will work as usual.

Treasure:

* There are no plans to change the drop rate of Relic equipment.
* Along with the reduction of the entry time restriction, the amount of Ancient Currency earned per session will be lowered. Overall, this change should increase the Ancient Currency distributed across the World.

so either this confirms the drop pool will stay the same or it will be the same as non dynamis areas really thing SE need to make this clearer.

this also now forces LS's to either do more dynamis for the same currency rate or take longer to get a relic personally i think this change is gonna kill dynamis off.

Ilax

03-10-2011, 04:15 AM

As I stated above, most relic armor drops are near useless so what incentive does a linkshell member have to show up and farm a person his relic weapon for him?

How about some do it just for the fun to help a friend? Some in the game are more respected then other, and there multi reason about it, i personally still help in dynamis (even if that make 3yr i don't need anything including relic weapon) Why you think? just because i have nothing anymore to win i should turn my back to everyone that supported me in that LS, no way... I also don't do it because i feel forced to do it, but more because we have fun and our linkshell are close friend for several yr now.

That the problem of everyone, they only help if they win something. (Can't blame the logic of this, but this don't apply anymore if you find the right LS)

Alhanelem

03-10-2011, 04:21 AM

People usually only do dynamis in small groups now. It's not a ridiculous notion to have a group of friends that are willing to help make a relic.

Dubberrucky

03-10-2011, 04:27 AM

Maybe i missed it somewhere in the posts but is SE implying that you can just enter Dyna randomly with other random people? If so this is going to just be a disaster we will have a bunch of random people just standing at the entrance to lot other peoples work.

Also they did not seem to mention dream zones whats the rumor mill on those will they be the same?

Ilax

03-10-2011, 04:35 AM

Big deal... When you're making AT LEAST double that in currency drops, that 1-2m a week seems like a pretty insubstantial cost. When all those leaders have to do is purchase a glass and show up 2 times a week, they are getting rich on the backs of everyone else.

That just wrong, none of our sponsor are allowed to SELL currency to get richer. I don't support that kinda of activity, is why we always been super selective on who sponsor, of course we not selecting Mr. bob, just because he rich, you get the whole thing wrong. No one will ever sponsor our dynamis with less then 1yr exp with us, they also loose all point they had accumulated, they have to show us a minimum of 26M, and they have to be respected in the LS and they can't already have in possession a relic weapon.

It amuse me when people say how sponsor enrich they self with dynamis, tbh SE should do an update in dynamis and make currency not possible to sell/trade, so in the end only legit LS like our would stay alive, and all the Mr. Money maker LS would vanish, and no more player buying GIL from RMT to buy currency from Mr. Money maker.

Icestein

03-10-2011, 04:37 AM

I know from the translation it sounds like it'll remain the same as it currently is, however, I think this is just a case of bad translation. The Japanese version makes it sound as if it will be party loot, which would make sense considering the force popping of NMs.

"Normal" might just refer to outside mechanics. We can hope.

Dubberrucky

03-10-2011, 04:40 AM

The ls i run with lots all the currency and sells it back to the upgraders in the shell for the cost of the run so those of us who are not upgrading do not pay for runs. It would ruin good honorable shells like mine to make them nontradeable. BTW yes big groups still exist for Dyna sadly if things are how they sound we are the ones who will get the shaft.

Dubberrucky

03-10-2011, 04:41 AM

Yeah the word "normal" scares me. Dyna had a different "normal" than anywhere else for loot.

Icestein

03-10-2011, 04:44 AM

The Japanese text translates as follows:

* The exclusive right of monsters and loot
Will be treated the same as normal field.
I think you'll conspicuous imagine the same format as it captures Abisea.

If it is Walk of the Echoes style, not only will Square enix have failed to make old content relevant, but will have proven that these forums are merely superficial. The last sentence referencing abyssea makes me think it won't be, though.

Dubberrucky

03-10-2011, 04:48 AM

Thanks that was more clear. Still sucks though because large LSs like the one I belong to will be screwed over but the daily change may shrink our numbers anyway so we will see how it goes.

kaht

03-10-2011, 05:05 AM

It's not a scam. everyone else is getting a pile of free equipment for their trouble.

Getting a pile of garbage equipment for 7 hours a week while leaders get millions of gil worth of currency. Enjoy your pile.

What it IS, is the only way to complete a relic in a reasonable time frame.

I'm pretty sure a person sitting on a pile of gil could buy all the currency faster than he could get a linkshell to farm it up for him.

That just wrong, none of our sponsor are allowed to SELL currency to get richer.

That's not the point. Whether you're selling the currency or keeping it for yourself, your net worth is going up by the same amount. Based on prices of currency, what's the average cost of a relic these days? 150mil-ish? Whether the person sells the currency or makes the 150mil weapon himself, he's still 150mil richer.

Let's look at it a different way, let's say you farm 5mil worth of currency off a run and the leader drops it all. That's 5mil currency that's not going into everyone else's pockets.

So whether they keep it, sell it, drop it, it doesn't matter. It's capital that the leader keeps for themselves, when they are only contributing a small amount of the work required to obtain it. You can argue about this till you're blue in the face, but the simple fact is that it's just not fair.

azjazo

03-10-2011, 05:15 AM

Lots of stuff...

Well, sorry, english is not my native language, so my vocabulary is lacking but the idea is there.

Why hating on other peoples having the things you have easier than how you got them? its not like they are taking the stuff away from you... and you can still get more stuff with your hard dedication and skill

And yeah, I concur that is very sad to see people not being able to do their job properly, but I dont think that noobish plage will last much when the game hits balance again after all these updates...

Take it like, you, an expert on the job or something are like the first wave of japanese players back when FF launched, when it hitted US, all the US were noobs, and what? do the Japanese hate you all for being noobs?? well maybe dunno, some one probably opened a forum with a topic like "US players ruining the gamezor!!11!!" but it eventually hitted a balance and the good elite players remaining being good and a bunch of noobs became great players or changed jobs, or leave the game etc... The level cap and the adjustments and the gear is changing, the way to play de game too, so, sit back and go do other suff if you cant stand seeing people like the examples you put, I dont botter, cuz I know taht not averyone is going to be good "as soon as they hit 90"

I completly understand the feeling of time wasted as I was in a Dyna LS myself and till i left I even didnt finished a set of relic, spending hours to end but I dont complain, I ENJOYED those hours, if it were "work" and "tedious" for you, then you were doing something wrong not having fun in the ride. Well of course I didnt wasted years in the LS I was busy enoug trying to reack 75 on SMN back when there wasnt even distinction between bloodpact rage/ward

Focusing... Sh1t happens, and its a shame those hours on end were "wasted", but as I said its not time wasted if you enjoyed the ride, and if you didnt... well I really used the word Masochist wrong, and clearly it was just work for you.

Maybe the word is.... elitist? egoist? or just plain cranky and bitter with everyone getting your same pair of shoes on sale now that they are an old model and you still got them when they cost half your monthly income... go get a new set then, its on sale!!!

Ilax

03-10-2011, 05:23 AM

It might sound not fair just because you see it as money maker when is obviously not, as i stated that could be 500k glass to collect rare/ex currency. If you look how not fair it is because someone spend gil to get currency while other collect AF for free then again you missed the point, I agree now the gear is garbage, but there still people doing dynamis just for the fun of helping a friend for his relic weapon (and is still 500k cost).

I can see what you involve into you idea, every member should have a share of the currency and Mr. I Buy Gil (or let say BOB) should buy it from your LS member for 6x the real cost right? 500k Glass = 350 currency average, 500k/350 = 1.5k each... how much Ordel sell again? ~12k (just 10x the price nto too bad.... orz) You guy derailed with dynamis...

Ilax

03-10-2011, 05:29 AM

Maybe the word is.... elitist? egoist? or just plain cranky and bitter with everyone getting your same pair of shoes on sale now that they are an old model and you still got them when they cost half your monthly income... go get a new set then, its on sale!!!

... again you derail. But you funny none the less.

Mojo

03-10-2011, 05:32 AM

It isn't fair. Buttering it up by talking about how your linkshell does things and how all your friends do it to help eachother (which, btw, I have trouble believing because I do not sincerely believe you represent the thoughts of everybody in your linkshell) does not change the fact that there exists a monumental difference in rewards between the players who are obtaining currency and the players are not. You probably would view things differently if you weren't ever one of those people. I think you might take it well to think over something you said earlier in the thread.

Was just pointing how in general everyone like to complain about everything to have the best world for they self, and careless about other.

You're voicing complaints over the changing of a system that is absurdly unfair and that most people didn't like anyways simply because you like it. Sounds like you don't care about what the majority of players think.

kaht

03-10-2011, 05:38 AM

It might sound not fair just because you see it as money maker when is obviously not, as i stated that could be 500k glass to collect rare/ex currency.

It certainly is for the fair linkshells that split currency and/or give payouts to their members.

If you look how not fair it is because someone spend gil to get currency while other collect AF for free then again you missed the point, I agree now the gear is garbage, but there still people doing dynamis just for the fun of helping a friend for his relic weapon (and is still 500k cost).

Would you go to abyssea and help 1 individual get all the +2 upgrade components, empyrean weapon upgrade components, and sellable drops (heed ring, artemis necklace, etc) while he let you ONLY have the seals? How is that different than letting 1 person keep all the currency in dynamis? (other than the fact that the +1 gear you can make with those seals is substantially better than garbage relic armor drops, matter of fact - this example is a lot more fair than dynamis, but I doubt anybody would fall for a scam like this - so why do we let it perpetuate in dynamis?)

I can see what you involve into you idea, every member should have a share of the currency and Mr. I Buy Gil (or let say BOB) should buy it from your LS member for 6x the real cost right? 500k Glass = 350 currency average, 500k/350 = 1.5k each... how much Ordel sell again? ~12k (just 10x the price nto too bad.... orz) You guy derailed with dynamis...

wut?

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but yes - I think dynamis currency drops should be split among members, minus the cost of the glass - 12k per ordelle's means the leader keeps the first 42 pieces of currency to pay for his out of pocket cost. After that, even splits among members since they're all doing the same amount of work.

Any other system than that will benefit 1 individual more than the rest.

Ilax

03-10-2011, 05:42 AM

It isn't fair. Buttering it up by talking about how your linkshell does things and how all your friends do it to help eachother (which, btw, I have trouble believing because I do not sincerely believe you represent the thoughts of everybody in your linkshell) does not change the fact that there exists a monumental difference in rewards between the players who are obtaining currency and the players are not. You probably would view things differently if you weren't ever one of those people. I think you might take it well to think over something you said earlier in the thread.

You're voicing complaints over the changing of a system that is absurdly unfair and that most people didn't like anyways simply because you like it. Sounds like you don't care about what the majority of players think.

If SE change it is clearly not because no one do dynamis anymore (On fenrir dynamis always been very active, and with abyssea content that did not change anything) Kinda funny how you turn the first cry baby complaining about it on me. very ironic, but try harder. Also as i stated, instead SE make change on what people clearly LOVE (even if is only 10%) they should fix what 99.9% people find really useless [Sky, sea, Garison, WoE, Campaign, all zone in general.... etc] I am sure everyone would /welcome change on it without complaining.

Randwolf

03-10-2011, 05:52 AM

The mechanics seem a little vague to me.

Does it mean everyone has an individual hour glass that begins counting down when they enter?
Does an individual/group claim a mob as on a regular battlefield complete with drops only falling to the individual/group?
Will the zone have a max number of people who can be in it at the same time?

I have more questions but the other questions involve the answers to the above. Depending on how it's implemented, it could be a real cluster. But, please make it nothing like WoE.

Lost1anguage

03-10-2011, 05:53 AM

Getting a pile of garbage equipment for 7 hours a week while leaders get millions of gil worth of currency. Enjoy your pile.

I'm pretty sure a person sitting on a pile of gil could buy all the currency faster than he could get a linkshell to farm it up for him.

That's not the point. Whether you're selling the currency or keeping it for yourself, your net worth is going up by the same amount. Based on prices of currency, what's the average cost of a relic these days? 150mil-ish? Whether the person sells the currency or makes the 150mil weapon himself, he's still 150mil richer.

Let's look at it a different way, let's say you farm 5mil worth of currency off a run and the leader drops it all. That's 5mil currency that's not going into everyone else's pockets.

So whether they keep it, sell it, drop it, it doesn't matter. It's capital that the leader keeps for themselves, when they are only contributing a small amount of the work required to obtain it. You can argue about this till you're blue in the face, but the simple fact is that it's just not fair.

Wow Q_Q some more. Leaders and the ones that buy the glass take all the risk. As small as that risk is these days its still their risk, and because of it, they should call the shots as to how the loot should be distributed. If you don't like running that way because you don't think its fair, then run your own raid however you like.

kaht

03-10-2011, 06:00 AM

Wow Q_Q some more. Leaders and the ones that buy the glass take all the risk. As small as that risk is these days its still their risk, and because of it, they should call the shots as to how the loot should be distributed. If you don't like running that way because you don't think its fair, then run your own raid however you like.

Risk? lolwut?

Lemme guess, you're a leader of a dynamis ls that keeps all the currency. I know saying this stuff out loud on a public forum has the potential to undermine your dynamis pyramid scheme if all the people under you catch wind of how stupid they are for supporting your relic for no reward. But using "risk" as a way to validate keeping the currency is a stretch at best. Nice try, but you still fail.

Ilax

03-10-2011, 06:00 AM

I'm not sure what you're trying to say, but yes - I think dynamis currency drops should be split among members, minus the cost of the glass - 12k per ordelle's means the leader keeps the first 42 pieces of currency to pay for his out of pocket cost. After that, even splits among members since they're all doing the same amount of work.

Any other system than that will benefit 1 individual more than the rest.

That just another way to do it too, i mean if your ls have 16 member, then is just going to take 16yr to finish all them, the game going to be dead before any of you get relic weapon.

Of course one of your member 'Mr. Bob' might get relic by buying everyone currency at 6x the price (bc you know how everyone are greedy) so don't really expect Mr. Bob to stay after he done. Or you can be in a miracle LS where everyone as ME give they currency for totally free (is what i do in salvage) But GL on that.

Fact is, no matter how people got they relic, is either 4 way, they had friend, They abused of everyone, they buy gil, they ruined they life farming 10x the real price of currency. End of story. And trust me i thanks SE for having that kind of event to make difference from Mr. A/B/C/D in the game. And i am sure some name can pop in your head (probably mine as i abused of my LS, should ask them if i really did, you be surprise)

But no matter my way or your way, we still derail about the subject, making 'open zone' wont help any of us.

Camate

03-10-2011, 06:00 AM

Icestein

03-10-2011, 06:04 AM

Camate, FFXI Dev team. I love you.

Ilax

03-10-2011, 06:07 AM

ringthree

03-10-2011, 06:10 AM

Considering the present state of both of Square-Enix' MMO's, are you particularly surprised at this development?

As for the adjustments, I get the feeling that this is really going to screw up Dynamis for legitimate players.

Legitimate players? You mean anyone that plays the game exactly as you dictate it should be played?

The fact is that Dynamis was dying because the content became irrelevant. SE is now changing it so that it might be relevant to more players again.

Ilax

03-10-2011, 06:10 AM

So i guess who claim get drop in they PT/Aliance, still don't like the idea of this. Specially if is 'open zone for everyone'

The good news is that not the WoE system.

kaht

03-10-2011, 06:12 AM

Hey everyone,

I wanted to shed some light on a correction we made to the original post:

Monster claim and item drops will work the same way as in regular fields and dungeons.

Sorry for the earlier confusion and I hope this clears things up!

Thanks for clearing that up.

That means officially any dynamis ls that runs with more than 18 people (if such ls exist anymore) will be limited to 18 onry, w/o a lot of party swapping.

Dubberrucky

03-10-2011, 06:13 AM

Well at least they cleared that up. Now the real question is are they making the rest of it like any other zone where the mobs in the zone will pop more than twice with the added groups inside competing for them?

Ilax

03-10-2011, 06:15 AM

kinda, abyssea is limited at 18 too and is still possible to run with 36 member, but ya i see what you mean anyway ^^

Dubberrucky

03-10-2011, 06:16 AM

Thanks for clearing that up.

That means officially any dynamis ls that runs with more than 18 people (if such ls exist anymore) will be limited to 18 onry, w/o a lot of party swapping.

^ This does still exist and thankfully I am not an officer in the Dyna group I run with this will make things rough on us for a while til it gets sorted out.

Icestein

03-10-2011, 06:20 AM

They haven't divulged any information, but logically I only see it being possible if Mobs repop. I'm guessing they'll have camps of different mobs, enough to facilitate a few groups.

azjazo

03-10-2011, 06:24 AM

@Ilax (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/members/4654-Ilax)
Sorry I deralied, these things change topic and its hard to keep track, so whats the problem here then???

and thanks on the funny compliment, I try to post as I try to play, to have a little fun away from RL stress (jost got very upset about the car agency cheated on the recipe taxes so now I cant deduce my car on tax recovery... frigging lot of money lost...)

GlobalVariable

03-10-2011, 06:24 AM

Hey everyone,

I wanted to shed some light on a correction we made to the original post:

Monster claim and item drops will work the same way as in regular fields and dungeons.

Sorry for the earlier confusion and I hope this clears things up!
So competition for "???" targets and MPK attempts at Dynamis Lord (bad) but no zone wide loot pool (good). Re-entry changes to 1 earth day but is there still a time limit for how long you can be inside the zone?

Cett

03-10-2011, 06:31 AM

Time to camp the ??? for Dynamis Lord... 100% 100 currency gogo!

azjazo

03-10-2011, 06:33 AM

Hm... probably the spawn of ??? NMs like Dyna Lord will be with pop items like the ones in Abyssea... so one member of a pt need to have all 3 (was it 3? I dont remember) to pop DL.

Ilax

03-10-2011, 06:39 AM

Dubberrucky

03-10-2011, 06:42 AM

Hmm wonder if they will do NMs like Dyna Lord like they do KI pop NMs for abyssea maybe?

varistor

03-10-2011, 06:43 AM

spending 500k (was 1m) per run and making gil off this was not a monopoly if you wanted to upgrade relics this was a must and now its a reduced entry time and hopefully a increased currency output for quicker upgrades. I will one day have to achieve this and I hope my shell keeps doing it despite what is to come, problem is if they reduce drops to alliance/party then a lot of people are going to get screwed in the long run from shells since there are still a limited amount of people that can be in an alliance and sometimes members participation exceeds 18 people..

Bingo. you win the prize. that is it right there. that is the only problem i see with it. It's like going to Dynamis-tav and the first 18 get to go, sorry rest of you have to sit out. Our LS still has 18+ members go to dynamis when they all show up.

Icestein

03-10-2011, 06:50 AM

Couldn't you just split up and drop and reinvite people as necessary? It really doesn't seem like that much of a dilemma.

Dubberrucky

03-10-2011, 06:59 AM

to be honest it would actually be more efficient solution to kick underperformers from the shell to limit to 18 but as I said before thankfully not my decision to make, but definitely an obstacle to deal with for the larger shells that still exist.

Alhanelem

03-10-2011, 07:00 AM

Bingo. you win the prize. that is it right there. that is the only problem i see with it. It's like going to Dynamis-tav and the first 18 get to go, sorry rest of you have to sit out. Our LS still has 18+ members go to dynamis when they all show up. So split into two groups, and when one group gets something someone in the other needs, that person drops and joins the other group to lot on the item.

It's not that hard.

(and really- I can't remember the last time I had dynamis with more than 18 people)

Redaske

03-10-2011, 07:40 AM

Considering the shear amount of effort I've put into the dynamis shell I've run for many years now... and finally being SO close to completing my first relic... I'm very not happy with what they are going to do to dynamis. It's taken me this long to get close... and now that I'm ALMOST there... they are going to change it again... and make it harder for me to complete it. It wouldn't be bad if they made it an INSTANCE zone but if it's an Open zone... all it's going to do is create: Have's and Have Not's. AKA "I HAVE GIL!" and "I WISH I had the gil" This isn't solving problems... it's making MORE. If it ain't broke don't fix it.

Gwynplaine

03-10-2011, 07:53 AM

If you want to finish up your relic the old way just go do CoP dynamis then.

Ilax

03-10-2011, 10:05 AM

If you want to finish up your relic the old way just go do CoP dynamis then.

Itt: because everyone know CoP zone always been the best for currency...

Mojo

03-10-2011, 10:12 AM

Bingo. you win the prize. that is it right there. that is the only problem i see with it. It's like going to Dynamis-tav and the first 18 get to go, sorry rest of you have to sit out. Our LS still has 18+ members go to dynamis when they all show up.

Already been pointed out, but that's like saying Abyssea doesn't support linkshells because the maximum number of people in an alliance is 18. It doesn't even make any sense. Any good linkshell is capable of multitasking. The only events that would ever suffer from size limitations are things like Limbus and, drumroll, old dynamis.

rog

03-10-2011, 10:16 AM

Itt: because everyone know CoP zone always been the best for currency...
I didn't even know cop zones dropped currency.

Kagato

03-10-2011, 10:30 AM

Who's to say they can't adjust that?

Original Dynamis zones: New system
CoP Dynamis Zones: Original system with drop adjustments.

Everyone's happy.

Burmecia

03-10-2011, 10:45 AM

Who's to say they can't adjust that?

Original Dynamis zones: New system
CoP Dynamis Zones: Original system with drop adjustments.

Everyone's happy.

Yeah that would be nice. /nod

AtrixWolfe

03-10-2011, 11:25 AM

Ilax, you are not alone. Dynamis and working toward my relic with a group of faithful friends with whom I have been working for years on end is one of the sole reasons I still log into this game. I have been appalled by many of the changes in the game since the advent of Abyssea and the new level caps. I am a particularly goal driven person. I don't enjoy very many video games because they tend to be very focused on the short-term goals. I fell in love with FFXI when I found out how hard a game it really was, when I realized I could have goals that extended several years out and be successfully working toward those goals. I joined a dynamis group a number of years ago and made a lot of friends that way. The dynamis system was challenging if a little repetitive, but I felt things were balanced very well. I particularly liked the fact that it allowed a system for needing many people working together to empower each other, one at a time, to get their relic weapons, the best weapons in the game (at the time). I never took issue with the fact that others were getting their relic before me. We were all enjoying ourselves and taking on the challenge of clearing these zones, or even just getting wins. It took hard work on the part of everyone there.

In the recent updates, this has largely changed. While there is a key core of my group that has come together, we are small, because the rewards of dynamis have largely been outdated and the new level caps have largely taken the challenge out of these areas. Our core group still works together, and we manage to recruit new people often, though they don't stay long because the experience of working together is so much less rewarding when the challenge is gone. To a large extent the damage has already been done. I have been hoping for a revamping of Dynamis, but not to make it easier and more accessible, but harder and more challenging with the same currency rewards and hopefully a new way to make the relic armor more competitive.

I am very concerned about the future of Dynamis now after reading this new information. Removing the need for reservation sounds like making it like the WoE, which at least on my server, has been a very failed system. While many people have been discouraged by the fact that traditional Dynamis shells worked by getting one person in the shell the relic before the next stepped up, I found this to be an exceptionally well designed system when it worked among loyal friends. I have been working for a number of months now on my relic with the help of my group, and there are people still waiting in line. It concerns me that these people may never get their chance, if this new system makes the system open to all and we have to compete for currency.

I am glad to see from the posts here that I am not the only person worried about these changes. I understand the need to make the game accessible to new people to keep it alive and profitable. But this does not mean that everything has to be made easy. Give the new people competitive gear, but don't have it be equal to the gear that people have worked years to obtain. SE, you gave the new people Abyssea, WoE, Campaign, etc. Do you really have to give them Dynamis and the relics too? Please, don't make this a free for all. Let the shells that have been functioning for many years continue.

I don't have the time to invest to read more but I do agree with this post a lot. People stay in FFXI because it is one of the few major mmo's out there today that remain difficult. Making everything easy mode, if anything, will lose dedicated subscribers and not be enough oomph to attract replacement subscribers. In short destroying what is monetarily for SE, and will destroy the experience for those who love it for what it is. While I applaud the recent changes as they will allow some people to actually get through everything the game has to offer, removing any and all challenge from the game will devalue the worth of accomplishments to a point where like many mmo's today, it doesn't feel worth doing.

Alhanelem

03-10-2011, 12:35 PM

I didn't even know cop zones dropped currency.
...
I hope that was sarcastic.

Ilax

03-10-2011, 01:59 PM

Yeah that would be nice. /nod

Yes i agree, that would be nice they keep CoP old style and adjust the drop. Just still bad if no one buy the new idea and everyone end to fight for the only 4 zone left =(

VoiceMemo

03-10-2011, 02:47 PM

I would like to share the way my dynamis shell does dynamis and the way we handle currency. Our shell has been around for some 6+ years in 1 form or another, we have completed 4 relics and our 5th is almost completed.

Currently, 1 person pays for the glass and collects all the currency for relic upgrade. The rest of the people that are there are either there to help the funder, or there to lot af2. The funder is one that has been in the group for a while and has put in the work with the shell and has the ability to fund constantly.

Based on my 5+ years with the shell and my data on my own relic here are some thoughts. For my relic, gjallarhorn it took 1 year 7 months to complete with funding, at the time funding was split 3 ways. I did a combination funding/buying, totaling 134 funding runs and 49 million gil spent.I can say that without funding, I would never have finished relic without have spending over 100 mil at the currency rates at the time. 57% of the 14400 was funded and 43% was purchased.

From this data, I have concerns about any change to dynamis. If each of us has to buy a key item from npc, this would eliminate the sole funder, as I would think everyone would want a cut of the currency since they paid for their key item. A solution for this would be the funder to pay for a members key item, but I don't really feel this is fair either unless all members are static. Even if you had 18 static members, if they all wanted to work on a relic, it would increase the total time needed to fund by a factor of 6. Now I know some of you will say but what about you can now enter every real day. I don't know about you, but those of us who have done dynamis for years, I doubt could survive doing it every single day. Doesn't this contradict the agreement that we accept when we enter ffxi, SE by making it able to enter everyday yes it would be possible to complete a relic in 52 days at that rate, but at what cost? There would definitely be a real life cost.

Not everything has to be like abyssea to succeed. I for one liked the challenge of relic, SE for years has said relic would not be for everyone, that it takes dedication to achieve it. In my opinion to lessen it would cheapen the accomplishment of all those who have completed relics.

So to recap, my points I would like to bring up are these:

1) Think of how it would affect the current way of funding. I know SE in the past wanted 64 people to share the cost of glass, but this is not the way the playerbase decided to do it. The playerbase has mostly used the few funders get all the currency to speed up the completion of relic.

2) Think of the reasoning the players have used for the funding. If 1 person buys the hourglass for entry, they should get all the currency from the zone as without the hourglass none of us could enter. If everyone has to get a key item that is only obtained once, this affects how the current way that currency is handled. To equally split currency among all that participate it would take 936 days(2.56 years) to complete all 18 relics, if we use the 52 days to complete a relic(52 * 18 = 936). That is 936 days of constant dynamis, which I highly doubt all 18 would do.

GlobalVariable

03-10-2011, 04:04 PM

I really don't want to see people fighting over mobs. They can add more spawns and make boss's force popped, but just looks at bastok mines - its only so large. Dyna bastok is a copy+paste of it with darker lighting. There isn't a lot of room to add more mobs in. When we had full dyna groups in they they were all from the same ls...Can you imagine that many people trying to claim a mob or a "???" target? Just the competition will be bad enough, but if they leave in a clock ticking to kick you out after so many minutes it'll be even worse trying to get anything done.

You know what they should be doing this to? Limbus zones. Get dynamis money from exchange of ancient beastcoin. As long as they left ultima/omega as a bcnm battle they could do whatever to the normal apollyon and temenos zones since a boss clear boots you from zone and you can't jump right back in to monopolize. Hey there is an idea. Kill dynamis NM, everyone on its hate list gets kicked out for 1 earth day.

...Basically all I'm saying they darn better make sure the selfish people in this game don't have a way to screw it up for the rest of us before they release this change. That is something they've not been so good with in the past (lookin at you bot-claimed land kings back when kings mattered).

Edit:
the sponsoring issue is a good point, but if you can afford to buy the glass now in theory you should be able to just buy your currency with the new supposedly more plentiful amounts post update.

Laverda

03-10-2011, 04:56 PM

We already have Abyssea. Why make Dynamis into Abyssea? That's not saving Dynamis, it's using the name "Dynamis" to refer to something that isn't Dynamis anymore.

The whole thing that has made Dynamis my favorite event in the game is that you go in with a group of friends, and together as a team you take on an entire zone. Everyone has to work together, following a strategy, in a spirit of companionship and friendship. That is the true essence of Vana'diel.

Now that's going away. It's going to be just another zone with random people getting in the way of this great cooperative effort. You're taking what made Dynamis special, and throwing it away to make it just like Abyssea. Sure, Abyssea is very well done, exceptionally good in fact. But we already have Abyssea, we don't need another one called "Dynamis."

What distinguished FFXI from other MMORPGs was the need for cooperation, a rich storyline and in-game culture, and difficult challenges. There was no Easy Button, and I liked that. That's why I picked FFXI over the others, even having never played another Final Fantasy game before.

You see, Dynamis for me has never been about the drops. It's the fun, the challenge, the teamwork, the concept and storyline, that's what has been important to me. It's the immersion in the world, the culture and history of Vana'diel, and the friends I make along the way. You're keeping only the part that's least important to me -- the drops -- and wrecking everything else.

Why not just leave Dynamis as it is? No-one revamped Garrison (another great event) when people stopped doing that. If people want to move on, just let them move on.

Lushipur

03-10-2011, 04:58 PM

...If each of us has to buy a key item from npc, this would eliminate the sole funder, as I would think everyone would want a cut of the currency since they paid for their key item. A solution for this would be the funder to pay for a members key item, but I don't really feel this is fair either unless all members are static. ...

Key item is one time buy only. Probably the goblin will check if u have requisite (liv65+ rank6) and let you buy it.
Then u need nothing else and can enter freely dynamis every 24 hours.

Ayasha

03-10-2011, 05:31 PM

Lots of good points in this thread. I agree that the double-edged sword of this change S-E is proposing will potentially cripple the efficiency of current Dynamis groups, but most of this is all speculation at this point. I've been doing Dynamis off and on for the past 4-5 years and the old system worked quite well. However, it seems to be more of a chore to me than the rewards (or in my case, complete LACK of rewards due to miserable luck ::shakes fists at Duke Berith:: ) promise to pay off. Granted, Dynamis currency isn't impossibly expensive to purchase, or rare enough to make farming it daunting (relatively, at least), it IS grossly inflated relative to the cost and effort necessary to obtain it. I'm actually interested in the changes coming up as well as the promise of a more casual approach at this content.

I would like to propose a 'Have Cake / Eat Cake' solution to the situation. Whether it's viable or not is irrelevant to me at this time because I don't claim to know or care about SE's server situation.

They can make Dynamis both instanced AND open to all. Keep the current form of the event intact, and as is, but with the new additions and modifications except keeping a 3 day cool down to avoid server monopolization. Employ a reservation system similar to the reservations required for Ballista or Brenner (I know that time is volatile in Dynamis, but not discussing in-depth mechanics here) requiring participants to have a copy of the reservation to enter. This will keep Dynamis linkshells able to operate as before without impacting efficiency. On top of this, have a SEPARATE instance of the zone with the 'open to all' framework in place. In order to encourage team play and to avoid the lazy factor, make the drops in the free-for-all zones moderately more infrequent and difficult to obtain than the dedicated zones. This will allow for more casual players to enjoy Dynamis at their leisure, but not invalidate the efforts of the more dedicated player bases.

Also, in order to allow both player bases the same opportunities, allow the players on dedicated zones to play in the open zones 24 hours from their previous entry regardless the instance of the prior event.

Just my suggestion. I figure that would make things enjoyable for all. Sorry for the length.

Alhanelem

03-10-2011, 05:42 PM

The whole thing that has made Dynamis my favorite event in the game is that you go in with a group of friendsIt wasn't really the design of the event that made the event popular, it was the good rewards for doing it. That's not to say that Dynamis was bad, but it had some issues, like scheduling problems, that often caused conflict between groups, which is the main reason for these changes. Making the Relic armor more accessible so that it can be a go-between between artifact and empyrean may have also played a role.

Now, I did like the fixed nature of Dynamis, where it took learning and planning to master it that went above and beyond small battlefields with a couple monsters. I will somewhat miss that, but at the same time, Many of us have beaten the crap out of the fixed Dynamis setups and I do think it will be an interesting change to have things all moved around. As others have said, doing the same 4 hour event over and over eventually became more of a chore than fun, even with the promise of a reward (though fun moments still occurred now in then with massive links and spectacular wipes :p )

Antonioklaus

03-10-2011, 05:54 PM

I like the idea of being able to go every 24 hours. I don't think I like the idea of it being like Walk of Echos. I hate that anyone can enter WoE. Totally messed up our run the other day. Not to mention if we are farming the -10 cure cast time neck for our whms, then anyone can come in and get it. Right now it's like 1.7m on our server. Kinda stinks that way. This will kill getting currency for relics (if you do that). Anyone can come in and lot whatever they want. That stinks.

Ragmar

03-10-2011, 08:55 PM

So the fair version of dynamis was where one person or a small group of people within a shell reap far greater rewards than others for the same amount of time/effort invested? The faulty system is the one where all have an equal oppertunity to reap the same rewards? Don't get me wrong WoE style would have been fail but as I read the changes to be made, only NM monopolization is even a concern. Not that you didn't have zone monopolization before.

varistor

03-10-2011, 10:56 PM

Schultz

03-10-2011, 11:38 PM

Haven't read the whole thread, but has anyone said anything about what will happen if you have a glass at the time of the update? Should I use the glass that I have, or will I be able to trade it for key items etc ?

kaht

03-10-2011, 11:57 PM

Ilax

03-11-2011, 12:37 AM

# Along with the reduction of the entry time restriction, the amount of Ancient Currency earned per session will be lowered. Overall, this change should increase the Ancient Currency distributed across the World.

I don't really know if everyone realize that after update:
# You will need to invest more time to get relic weapon.
# You have to deal with competition more then ever for relic weapon.
# The charge going to be once per day for every player that attend dynamis run (like limbus).
# Every linkshell (Example on fenrir for Wed/Sun 8pm est, is 4 linkshell before merge) that will need to fight for the 4 zone left [CoP].

You can for sure expect currency to jump skyrocket, because:
# Everyone going to feel 'Hey i worked hard for what i got' and it cost me something.
# Everyone going to dream again they can obtain relic. Making the Demand >> Offer.

Idk why ppl seem to forget they experience with ffxi in general, Limbus have same system for the cost, but is still close zone, now add competition into it and you obtain dynamis V2. I can already see a tons of people ready to join this new event, not because they really wan the LOL-GEAR from dynamis (i think that been say just too many time in this thread) But more to try get a gil reward out of it. For who that actually making a relic with the OLD system, trust me they all not happy about this change.

The change from base is 1x per day instead 1x per 3 day, is 3x more, but do not forget the fact that SE said: 'the amount of Ancient Currency earned per session will be lowered'. Can be sure at the moment 10,000+ player are back dreaming they will get relic, but i have a bad news, the offers still not that high to get that many relic, so yes, you can see the price skyrocket for sure, or we might see everyone just say: F@c# that $h*t when they see the dream still remain not possible after tasting the bot claiming (HNM Ref), the major LS monopolizing every best camp (like we see in abyssea). And in the end who really going to be happy about all this? Trust me, not Mr. everyone, still going to be the most organized LS including RMT.

# Obviously, keep in mind been long time enough that HNM ls or RMT have multi-Mule / Character, be ready to see them fully monopolize this. Also keep in mind for those kind of LS, is just too easy with abyssea to create a MULE every day to lv90, making them able to just rotate they mule and stay inside dynamis Day long. So what about everyone again? oh yes, another false dream.

Another point of view, is not much possible for normal human to stay awake 24/24 7/7, but for RMT with organization is fully possible to be there 24/24, so that might of course reward them a tons of currency. Everyone get your paypal ready, might be soon possible to buy relic for only 1,000$ instead 3,000$. Seriously i hope SE drop this idea, i can't really see anything positive into it.

Do the math yourself if you think i am wrong, once per 72h for 4h event mean 72h/4 = 18 mule x 12 player (216 lv90) but 24h/4 = 6 * 12 = 72 lv90 needed to fully monopolize the new system. Its an open event so be ready to accept them into it.

Starcade

03-11-2011, 07:25 AM

But no matter my way or your way, we still derail about the subject, making 'open zone' wont help any of us.

There are times I openly question the motives of Square-Enix regarding player conduct and all.

They can say what they want, but this whole "relic" situation (and I finally am looking in, with some seriousness, to working toward that direction, should Square-Enix' MMO division last that long!) sounds ugly.

I remember, before Campaign actually added currency to the situation, currency being 5/10 (5K for Bynes, 10K for the other two). Now, I'm lucky if it's not 7/14. Given what some of these idiots are going to do, what are we looking at? 10/20? WORSE??? (Especially because the Devs have now said that the amount of currency per run is going to drop)

And as for Camate's stating that monster claim and item drops will work the same as regular areas, that's nice -- problem is you're going to have a gazillion people running around trying to outclaim each other -- that's bot city, in case you people who haven't nearly dealt with this problem on an organizational level at Square-Enix don't get it...

Catmato

03-11-2011, 08:05 AM

problem is you're going to have a gazillion people running around trying to outclaim each other -- that's bot city

Just like Abyssea is bot city right now.

Oh wait...

Starcade

03-11-2011, 08:30 AM

Just like Abyssea is bot city right now.

Oh wait...

In some respects, it is. There is some alleviation with the forced pops, but there are some preferred pops (*cough*Heqet*cough*) that can get real questionable over the course of time.

Wenceslao

03-11-2011, 09:44 AM

Starcade

03-11-2011, 09:49 AM

I just wanna say something: I like dynamis the way it is right now SE!!!!!!!!!!!!!, and i don't even completed the first ones, i don't want a real cool zone gimped, i want a challenge no another abyssea like zone

Which comes down to the question as to whether FFXI == (equals and is defined as) Abyssea.

Wenceslao

03-11-2011, 09:52 AM

Really guys, Dymanis is enjoyable and hard as it is, why not make abyss harder? instead of gimp dynamis, lol

Sama

03-11-2011, 11:20 AM

I don't know why I worked so hard on my relic weapons before...

SE you spitted on me...

Savannah

03-11-2011, 12:16 PM

Hey everyone,

I wanted to shed some light on a correction we made to the original post:

Monster claim and item drops will work the same way as in regular fields and dungeons.

Sorry for the earlier confusion and I hope this clears things up!

I do not approve of this...I hate this....Dyna is just fine...doing this is just messing it up.

Sukasaroth

03-11-2011, 12:30 PM

Instanced Dyna = win, Dyna freeforall = gtfo

Zahak

03-11-2011, 01:11 PM

if they increase mob lv inside dyna it will be harder than it is now and you cantt compare it to abysea your not gettin +50 stat +hp mp or atmass

Babygyrl

03-11-2011, 02:01 PM

dynmias inst hard anymore that's the point.. you can do it easily with 6 people.. whats been wrong with dynamis from the beginning is its Costly and "reserving the zone" when its not instanced prevented alot of people from being able t odo it.. now it will be accessible to everyone! they did not say they were going to gimp the mobs or anything.. its just going to be more accessible.

Alhanelem

03-11-2011, 03:28 PM

Don't understand why anyone would not like this, especially since you can go daily, there's no global loot pool which should have made people happy (e.g. its not like walk of echoes) and you're basically free to do it when you want.

To the "oh noes its freeforall nothx" people: You afraid of crowds or something? I can guarantee you it's not going to be that bad. Everyone's in abyssea.

There is no way for them to "instance" dynamis. Even the areas people call "instanced" are not really instanced- they have a limited capacity and you can be blocked from entering if just a few groups are inside those areas. The "instancing" is achieved through the areas having several copies of the terrain stacked outside of shouting distance of eachother. It's not like in WoW where everyone is in their own little world in a dungeon. So, considering instancing is not possible (good luck cramming more than one Beaucadine or Xarcabard terrain map within the game engine's world space), making it an open area is really the next best option.

Ilax

03-11-2011, 08:13 PM

I think you guy kinda missing the point of dynamis, it been for several year an hostile zone where any random action could make the run a total waste, where everyone actually have to pay 100% attention to they action. The strategy was the ultimate way to success, making this event in my opinion the best ever event SE did.

If you look at WoE is pretty much close to dynamis, the only 2 difference is:
* Open zone
* Lottery

Making this event hard to love, the strategy is not anymore how to play the event but more about anticipate the bad action from random member that will enter in your event. The LOOT system was not bad itself, but since is an open event there some people that found a work around to just screw up everyone.

I really can't see where people base they opinion when they say is going to be awesome. The only real way SE could set all these issue is for sure by turning Dynamis in easy mode. No way these zone will remain the same. (NM trigger, Mass link of death). It would be so chaos, so in the end what SE is about to do is to change dynamis at the point where only the name will remain the same.

They said CoP will stay the same, i guess that the only part that kinda make me happy.. Well assuming everyone love the change they about to do, because if all this end up to be like campaign, and everyone lost they interest of dynamis V2 after 6 month, then is just another waste...

Tsukino_Kaji

03-11-2011, 08:15 PM

An update to dynamis would require an update to ALL items aquired from it to equal or surpass abyssea.
Just because the area and gear is out of date doesn't mean it has to be updated. If it's nessissary to go back and change one, you'll have to go back and change them all.

Zyrs

03-11-2011, 08:33 PM

I'm funding a relic by buying the currency from the linkshell, we sell it at the going rate and split the proceeds minus enough to pay for the glass.

The concerns I have are not about relics/coins, they are about logistics. Currently, you need the key items from the four city wins to enter Beaucedine. You need the key item from Beaucedine to enter Xarcabard. And you need to beat the Dynamis Lord to win Xarcabard. There are still a lot of players that have not reached level 65/been in a Dynamis yet.

To win in each zone, you need to kill certain NMs to spawn the Zone boss. In Xarcabard, the zone boss can drop a couple of nice items along with currency. I'm betting this will make him a farming target if he is a popped boss.

How are the changes going to balance the needs of the people who need city/beaucedine/xarcabard wins against those of the people just wanting to farm nms? Is there going to be one ??? for every nm people need to pop for a win that doesn't have anything farmable and one ??? pop for people who are farming? Or is it going to be free for all where people going for the win or farming can each be frustrated in their efforts by a group that is going for the other endeavor?

Or are you going to remove the 4 city wins to Beaucedine to Xarcabard path completely and just allow anyone to enter any Dynamis they want?

Ilax

03-11-2011, 08:41 PM

DEV are not talking much about the direction all this is going, and i am surprise some jump on conclusion that will be such of amazing upgrade. But yes, there so many thing they have to change to make this possible. I kinda hope we can finish the 4th relic before this update come out, so i am not forced to join something that i probably will hate.

R.I.P. Dynamis.

Tsukino_Kaji

03-11-2011, 08:48 PM

Dynamis dose not need to be updated. This is simply a case of complainers being as vocal as ever.
If you need an update to gear and weapons, go after the new ones. Just because you have something already, doesnt' mean that you have to use it forever. If you update one set of gear, then why shouldn't you update all of it? Since dynamis needs to be stronger/better, why shouldn't level 1 gear have larger bonusses? Why shouldn't Fields of Valor pages be more challenging? Why not re-cap COP too?

Ilax

03-11-2011, 09:39 PM

As far as i know, is the same jealous player complaining how they did not success in this event, asking none stop to SE to change it just to give them a chance.

In reality we all know what about to happen, my LS might die from this update, but another will find the way to monopolizing the event. In the end the same player will be mad + my ls might be dead. [very great idea]

Ive been doing dynamis long enough to have face multi LS that did not survive more then 6 month, and reason are multiple. Just take me for reference, i was in dynamis for 3 yr before doing mine, ive been facing enough unfair issue with leader of my linkshell, i was also doing most of his duty job... I ended to conclusion i was just wasting my time with them, and instead i did my own linkshell that turned in the first week more successful then the one i was in. Also just sad how his linkshell died the next 2~3 week.

The true story about dynamis and QQ, are the same as for every event in the game, everyone are ready to join a linkshell, take advantage of knowledge from all the leader and take every drop over everyone just because they feel is right. People are good at QQ for everything, but give them the leader status and they are PETRIFIED about what to do. Leading for me been more then abuse of my power, i had to deal with many issue that most of 'general' player will never face, i don't think i have explain any. In the end all i can say is how i success to keep a group tight and together.

As much as it can sound unfair for some about leader decision, like who sponsor, who take item, the option to do your own dynamis always been open, and you all could have done the same as i did when i was in total disagree with my leader. Leading a group is a challenge too, is not easy to make everyone happy, and trust me leader have way more to considerate then the general cry baby.

Maybe it sound unfair to you if i refuse you to sponsor in my LS, but trust me to me is even more unfair if i would tell one of my member that support us for 4yr, sorry Mr.Bob with zillion more gil then you will take your spot. Is reason my LS as many other dynamis LS are still alive, they found they way and they support, and this update is about to just erase that synergy. In the end like i said, someone else will take our place, be ready to deal with something that might be different but not necessary better as it is atm.

Zidian

03-11-2011, 10:50 PM

You dont need to change the system to change dynamis. tbh there was nothing wrong with the system, it was functioning perfectly for years prior to abyssea. The reason the player base for dyna is dying is, as you said, because there is almost nothing worth getting from there for the masses of FFXI (sure every couple of people are gonna go after the relic weapons, but only so many!). In MY OPINION what SE should have done was make the rewards higher, perhaps introduce new gear and relic +2. Changing the system, in this case, is just lowering the standard: something i find unnecessary since people in FFXI are trying to get away from the over "simplified /easy post-Abyssea" world FFXI is turning into.

xiozen

03-11-2011, 11:30 PM

Honestly... i'm inclined to agree that the reason dynamis has died is because people have what they wanted from it...those that still play and that have been playing for years... (including those that got what they wanted, then quit the game and are now back)... so in retrospect this should be a welcome change to old content---now if it's done right...well, it'll be an ENHANCEMENT to the system, not a detriment. My suggestion: Wait and see what's released... i'm sure the SE Devs have gotten more than enough of a whiff of the direction the player base wishes to see this game going and are making adjustments they deem are necessary to fit that new mold.

Volkai

03-12-2011, 12:44 AM

Large Dynamis linkshells as they currently exist will no longer work. THey will have to adapt to the new system. That's not impossible to do.

Having a single person pay for a run's hourglass will no longer work, as it will now be a one-time purchase. However, these 'run sponsors' can instead put their gil towards purchasing more currency, as at least some players will be entering dynamis on a daily basis to farm currency for profit. (Chances are RMTs will try to do this, so keep an eye out for them to report them to the GMs.)

This is not the end of Dynamis. As it is, even 12 players of level 90 can clean out a zone with the right mix of jobs; and it is reasonable, I feel, to assume that the new Key Item system for NM pops will make zone bosses (including the Dynamis Lord) feasible to take on.

The questions I have are if it will be possible for an alliance to take out the dynamis weapons quickly enough, and if Yin and Yang will still need to be slain simultaneously or not.

lllen

03-12-2011, 01:18 AM

I am in a Dyna shell, we usually run with 12-13ish players, granted there are times we have a complete wipe, but then again it fun. We have 2 people doing relic, so, we have their runs (we have 2 runs a week) and bank runs . Lol, i love the small group, sometimes we have less people and you have to really concentrate on what you do and what others need etc... The nice point of a small group is that we have a good income derived from bank runs at the end of the month and we had fun.

I'm very confused as to what will actually happen with the updates to Dyna, but I can't imagine them making it wide open for all to play at the same time as some have suggested. I am of the opinion that they will make it like Nyzul, many groups in there own little world at any given time. I want to see changes in Dyna, but I think SE need to be a little more forth coming on what they actually thinking of doing, save on forum space.

Lost1anguage

03-12-2011, 01:34 AM

The logistics of the currency are puzzling to me, if i understand them correctly, SE wants to let me run Dynamis MORE frequently for LESS currency.

Currently I spend 7 hours a week in Dynamis and in those 2 runs my shell can make probably a little more than 6 million gil. After these changes if I'm understanding things correctly I will now need to spend even MORE time in Dynamis to obtain the same amount of currency? I don't understand how this motivates MORE people to enter and run Dynamis. Can someone at SE please enlighten me as to how this is a positive change for the people that habitually run Dynamis currently? It seems like SE is saying we're gonna have to work harder for the same level of loot...

Ilax

03-12-2011, 01:38 AM

I want to see changes in Dyna, but I think SE need to be a little more forth coming on what they actually thinking of doing, save on forum space.

Maybe they have no clue yet, they just tossed 'reborn dynamis' with vague info just to see everyone reaction? Or maybe they completely know where they actually going and just wan to anticipate general reaction.

For sure i would like someone from DEV to come in and release a bit more info, specially after 180 post, 13,000+ view.

Kirth

03-12-2011, 04:39 AM

This new Dynamis sounds amazing. The older I get, and the more involved developing my career and personal life, the less time I have to sink into the old FFXI style of gameplay. Any way SE can make the game more accessible and not such a GIGANTIC time sink, I'm all for it. I'd love to be able to log in, get a six man party and go run around in some Dynamis. I can't understand how folks here can defend an aging battlefield that holds little incentive aside from Relic currency, and can last up to three hours. If this indeed makes Relics easier to obtain, flipping AMAZING. After you do manage to acquire one, you still have to do trials to get it up to lv.90.

Starcade

03-12-2011, 05:13 AM

Please remember one of my main precepts of this game to understand why this appears to be a VERY bad idea:

Many players get their enjoyment of the game by denying other players that same enjoyment. They win once by getting advancement, and a second time by denying yours.

Unless some constraint is put into all of this, I see "link of death" being a very common occurrence in new-Dyna.

Crossarius

03-12-2011, 05:17 AM

I don't care about Dynamis (anymore) so I won't go into the discussion if this change is a good thing as I never liked Dynamis but at least I got through it. It always was way too tedious and repetitive but that is just my personal opinion.

However, there is something else that I find very questionable.
Is this just the first step into "new" semi-endgame by rehashing the old one and change how it works?
We do not know if they will toss into new equipment, which I hope that they won't do that!
In the end I just don't want to see only rehashed stuff!

Francisco

03-12-2011, 05:27 AM

I envision it working somewhat like abyssea in a sense, where it can support multiple groups of 3-6.

Xarcabard and Beaucedine are easier to predict, since they have the room to support large camps of demons/gigas/orcs/etc... If a group wants to fight Prince Seere for Cleric's Mitts, they farm a pop item, spawn and kill it - and it'll be free for another attempt or the next group after a few minutes.

Shadow Lord perhaps will be spawned by collecting a Key Item from each of the major NMs.

It's tough to predict what they'll do with the city zones... and I can't see them having stuff like the Death House in Windurst anymore - as any idiot can gank the zone at any time in that case.

From the sounds of it - Dynamis will be "always open" like Abyssea - without the zone needing to "reset" like WoE... For example, if we're given 100 minutes in the new dynamis - we get that full 100 minutes despite anyone who entered the zone prior to us.

Also - it may be possible Kindred Crests and High Kindred Crests will be used as pop items for NMs in these zones.

Questions for the Devs:

- Many people are "done" with Dynamis. Will new gear be obtained from Dynamis along with these changes?

- Will there be an increase in enemy difficulty?

Alhanelem

03-12-2011, 05:31 AM

Unless some constraint is put into all of this, I see "link of death" being a very common occurrence in new-Dyna. You highly overestimate the number of destructive players in the game. This doesn't happen that much in Abyssea, and since dynamis is sitll going to be far less played than abyssea, it's not going to happen much there either.

Redaske

03-12-2011, 06:21 AM

Here is something that I don't think a lot of people realize. NOT ALL but a fair portion of the in game Economy IS Affected by Dynamis. Like it or not people by currency because they like relics. And the prices of currency vary due to the: Supply and Demand. However you won't have the Demand if you don't have crafters/campers/farmers/etc. The Demand won't be there if the GIL isn't there. So what happens when you make something that DOES have a fair amount of affect MORE available to people.... One of two things will happen. Prices will freefall because the supply is Vastly superior.... or then will skyrocket because EVERYONE will be trying to do a relic. As I said in my post earlier:

IF IT ISN'T BROKEN DON'T TRY TO FIX IT!

If you think about it now that Dynamis is easier due to the level cap increase and the new gear.... More currency drops due to TH increases, etc. My Linkshell alone noticed a rough 30-35% increase in currency. Our LS ALSO only runs with an average of 18-24 people. We are fair in the decisions of who sponsors and who doesn't. At this current time we have only 2 sponsors. Myself and one other who is just starting. The only reason we only have 2 and not more is because I'm so close to being done we are mainly focusing on finishing mine. Once mine is completed we have 3 other people lined up to step in and sponsor based on the current Currency needs for the Relic they are trying to complete. So coupled with the already higher drop rates we could literally have a Relic for each member within a couple years.

Now let's say we take and open up the dynamis zones so ANYONE can be in a area. Groups will fight over mobs and ??? spawns. Everyone will be lotting currency some people will sell it and some will keep it. But what happens when the balance of sell/keep shifts one way or the other. THE ENTIRE economy would be affected.

MORE SELL: Supply is massive and the price falls through the floor.
MORE KEEP: The Supply becomes limited and prices skyrocket. So crafters/campers/farmers/etc. will begin charging more for the items they are selling to make up for the increased prices and the lack of supply.

Now SE if you are listening... DON'T BREAK WHAT AIN'T BROKEN

Ilax

03-12-2011, 06:38 AM

so ITT: is all logical to destroy the old system of an event that still support over 1,000 player, just because everyone don't like it. Good analogy lol

What i am saying is... there still 1,000+ enjoying and playing dynamis, even if the gear is worthless and E.Wep is an alternative. In the change there no plan for new AF gear, only new pop system that is related to abyssea. I think is fair enough to say they could have done this to Sky where obviously is way more dead then dynamis. And even if Sky still have player loving it, adding new pop would not disturb they event since is already open area, but have more chance to actually revive it by creating a new reason to do Sky.

[1,000 is my personal estimation, just my linkshell is 30 member total, 14 member average at every event. And there 5 linkshell running at same time then us, that make a minimum of 150 player just for 1 server for 2 day/week out of 7day/week] Is probably even more then 1,000 over all server.... but let just say 1,000...

Hazen

03-12-2011, 06:55 AM

I can see how much these updates can make relic upgrade trials (for attestation NM and whatever's next) easier or at least quicker to complete, but all the same, for the love of moogles do not make me have to kill Animated Longsword umpteen times (the next thematically appropriate step) or worse, get however-many Holy Fragments. In fact, I don't want to have to step foot in dynamis for anymore relic trials, give me my 2000 killshot trials back.

I liked being able to solo my relic trials, no matter the time it took. I didn't like having to try and organize runs for an event no one wanted to do, hours of others' people time for little gain besides a tally mark off a few people's trials. And all the waiting, worrying about when/if I'll get the next run. I was lucky and after a few weeks managed to get into a group doing dynamis runs for killing the attestation NMs, but it dissolved before I was finished and getting the rest was a monumental headache.

Again, I see how much this new update could help out with regards to completing trials that require something in dynamis (eliminating a lot of the waiting, potentially making it so that you get pop item >> walk to ??? >> pop it and kill in something less than a couple hours once a day for however many days), but all the same, I'd much rather solo something no matter how grindy rather than have more dynamis stuff to do and having to cross my fingers and hope the update dice roll in my favor.

P.S. I'm sure some Mythic owners want killshot trials back too!

Invader

03-12-2011, 07:08 AM

Dynamis as we know it will be gone; if it's like Abyssea, that could be awesome as long as the zones can support multiple farming groups.

On the flip side, the storyline type "epic battle versus the trapped Beastman Confederate hordes!" feeling will probably be gone; I do not see a way to "lay siege" to the nightmare zones when the whole zone isn't reserved for your group.

So, instead of having one epic battle of your side versus theirs, you will take part in a much larger battle that constantly rages between the trapped Beastman forces and many groups of adventurers; a perpetual battle which never ends, similar to Abyssea. That can work too, and will likely be just as fun.

With Key Item pop progression, you can even force the same order of kills for certain events (most notably killing the Demonic Nobility to pop Dynamis Lord, or the Vanguard Eye that pops Attestation NMs). While the pulling will obviously be different, and paths through the zones taken by groups to complete the "original goals" (which in this case would require a succession of Key Item pops) will be revised, it is possible (though difficult) to maintain the same challenge as before. This, along with an increase in level for the mobs, will provide a refreshing change to an old event which has needed a makeover for years.

If all of that comes to pass in that way, it will be a great update.

Bleu_Lakshmi

03-12-2011, 07:14 AM

Can someone at SE please enlighten me as to how this is a positive change for the people that habitually run Dynamis currently?

I doubt their goal is to create positive change for the people who habitually run Dynamis - because practically nobody does that. Yes, you will probably get less currency per run, but you will be able to enter with more flexibility. There will be more currency spread among the population, which will be an overall net benefit to the economy.

Bleu_Lakshmi

03-12-2011, 07:15 AM

I am going to miss "old dynamis" (although Dreamlands aren't changing), but I'm happy to see that SE are willing to be bold and make changes like this.

Bigmomma

03-12-2011, 09:05 AM

Honestly I am afraid that SE just really messed up big time. Dynamis is fun, but doing it everyday will make it a chore. I'm sorry SE but you screwed the pooch on this move. Making the zones instance yes please, but where everyone is in one zone? how is this going to work on Relic AF drops? some shells have 2 Alliances and we can lot in both, but if 300 people are in one zone how is this going to work?

Redaske

03-12-2011, 09:09 AM

Bleu_Lakshmi Dude... GO READ my post. Seriously. Do you not understand that it will NOT be good for the economy?

Alhanelem

03-12-2011, 09:29 AM

Here is something that I don't think a lot of people realize. NOT ALL but a fair portion of the in game Economy IS Affected by Dynamis.Dynamis doen't greatly affect the economy anymore. You can just as easily get gil from gold boxes in abyssea (34k to NPC augmented dark rings anyone?), and because it's not done that often anymore, Dynamis is no longer the major gil sink it was at its inception.

As far as not broken dont fix- Just because it was a popular event, doesn't mean it wasn't broken or didn't need fixing. Everyone hated the scheduling and conflicts and getting "jumped" by enother LS that wasn't willing to negotiate. I for one got real tired of not being able to do the runs we wanted to do. This greatly solves the dynamis problem by letting people more or less go when they want, with however many people they want, and not get locked out because someone else wanted to do the same thing as them.

Do you not understand that it will NOT be good for the economy? Any actual effect on the economy that you're implying will be slight at best, for reasons I've stated above. Abyssea easily takes its place for gil generation (as abyssea actually generates gil unlike dynamis which takes some out and redistributes the rest) and dynamis already lacks it's gil sink capacity because it is not often played anymore.

Bigmomma

03-12-2011, 09:46 AM

Umm your not on Asura are you? on Asura we have a few shells that delight in zone jacking and yes even in Taking claimed NMs in Abyssea. So yes I see this becoming a big problem and one more thing what about Time Extentions in Dynamis how is that going to work? IF its mobs that repop, some shells will camp them and other shells will get booted for lack of time. Is it going to be a set time or time in chests?

Redaske

03-12-2011, 09:47 AM

Randwolf

03-12-2011, 10:02 AM

I doubt their goal is to create positive change for the people who habitually run Dynamis - because practically nobody does that. Yes, you will probably get less currency per run, but you will be able to enter with more flexibility. There will be more currency spread among the population, which will be an overall net benefit to the economy.
Currently, Dynamis favors people who sponsor runs. The sponsor pays for the glass, the price of which is minuscule compared to the current market value of the currency. You pay those who do the run with either relic armor drops or a promise that you will be doing their relic in the future. Both of which cost the sponsor no Gil. And, often we see people at the bottom of the chain get the shaft when those who got their relic suddenly move on or the Dynamis shell breaks. It doesn't always happen that way. But it happens a lot.

In the new system, currency drops at an unknown lower rate. But the frequency of entry increases 3 fold. Also, the change in Dynamis may make more people do it, fewer people do it, or the same number of people. And people may do it 1 - 7 times a week. I believe the amount of time people can be in the zone has not been announced nor has it been determined if a large number of people in a zone means people would be idle waiting for mobs to pop. Just these factors alone, and there will be others, make for a formula that has so many variables that it would be impossible to determine what the overall impact to currency 'in play' would be.

Now, take the fact that the currency has been dispersed to a wider population who may act with that currency in different ways. Some will sell at market price, some will undercut, some will buy and resell at a profit, as well as the fact that more people may decide to embark upon a relic.

So with a possible wide variance in currency availability, odds are the price of currency will be affected. But how, no one knows. But, whatever the change in currency value, unless it completely tanks, people who used the sponsored runs method will probably find it more costly to complete a relic.

The bottom line is that no one who was completing their relic through sponsored runs wants to see the system changed. Personally, I hate the sponsored run system because it relied on the masses working for gear that was provided by S/E or promises that often went unfulfilled in exchange for allowing someone to have all the dropped currency. Thus, you will see a large number of people who are using sponsored runs to get their gear argue vehemently against changing the system. And most will attempt to use arguments that cannot be substantiated prior to the change versus the argument that will most likely be true, "my relic will cost me more."

Alhanelem

03-12-2011, 10:04 AM

Your desire to be insulting and use offense discredits anything you're saying. Sorry, and no offense intended here. And I've been playing since the NA release. Your behavior, which demonstrates both immaturity and a lack of understanding of economics, should signal to others to take your posts with a very large grain of salt. Being hateful and USING LOTS OF CAPS does not enhance your argument.

Abyssea has NO NONE ZIP ZERO effect on the economy. Why? BECAUSE IT IS FREE TO ENTER.You're blind, no offense, if you don't see the impact abyssea has on the economy. Producing tons and tons of items that people can NPC for gil adds gil into the economy, whilst none is taken out. The only reason prices haven't skyrocketed is because there isn't that much worth buying these days. Producing gil has just as much effect on the economy as taking it out. It's not about who or where the gil goes to, it's about how much is produced and how much is removed.

I fully understand the big picture. It is you who does not.

The bottom line is that no one who was completing their relic through sponsored runs wants to see the system changed.I'm really not sure why. You most likely won't need a whole LS full of people to help you anymore, because you can go more often with a small team of friends and still make progress just fine, and on top of that, you don't have to pay out 500k a run anymore. I don't see how this hurts anyone who was doing sponsored runs.

Naturebeckles

03-12-2011, 10:10 AM

Alhanelem

You seriously don't understand the economy? How long have you been playing the game?? 4-5years at the most? I have been playing this game since it was in BETA. Abyssea has NO NONE ZIP ZERO effect on the economy. Why? BECAUSE IT IS FREE TO ENTER. Seriously have you ever taken an Economics course in High schoool or College? Granted Gil generation became easier due to Abyssea. HOWEVER CONSUMABLES VIA CRAFTING Still have the HIGHEST affect on the economy. GUESS WHAT! Most of the crafters WANT EVERYTHING. AKA Relics/Mythics/Empyrean. What they can't get by crafting THEY BUY WITH GIL. Where do they get there gil? Crafting Consumables/Buying it from RMT/etc.

All offense intended... YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE BIG PICTURE.

*Laughs for a long time and then coughs*

Um, obviously Redaske you didn't understand your economics class in high school. My Commander's Cape - which cost me 300k on Sylph LESS THAN A YEAR AGO is now worth 20k thanks to Abyssea and the new gear it brought. So, Abyssea has a LARGE effect on the overall economy of the game. Thank you. Class dismissed.

Alhanelem

03-12-2011, 10:14 AM

^
I was waiting for someone to say that. :p

Naturebeckles

03-12-2011, 10:18 AM

^
I was waiting for someone to say that. :p

*giggles* ;)

Randwolf

03-12-2011, 10:18 AM

I'm really not sure why. You most likely won't need a whole LS full of people to help you anymore, because you can go more often with a small team of friends and still make progress just fine, and on top of that, you don't have to pay out 500k a run anymore. I don't see how this hurts anyone who was doing sponsored runs.
Yes, if they complete their relic with a small team, it would most likely cost much less. It will also involve considerably more hours in Dynamis and take a longer time to complete. The big part of the equation that is left out is the free labor. So, what it means is the person getting their relic will most likely do more work, spend more time in Dynamis, and/or pay more Gil to get the currency they need.

p.s. - and in my opinion that is a good thing.

Naturebeckles

03-12-2011, 10:27 AM

Yes, if they complete their relic with a small team, it would most likely cost much less. It will also involve considerably more hours in Dynamis and take a longer time to complete. The big part of the equation that is left out is the free labor. So, what it means is the person getting their relic will most likely do more work, spend more time in Dynamis, and/or pay more Gil to get the currency they need.

p.s. - and in my opinion that is a good thing.

I agree also. Right now, our Dyna LS is trying to figure out how these changes will affect our runs. We're not a typical LS... nobody in our LS is building a relic right now (to my knowledge) and we all have most of the gear we want. we basically do Dynamis for fun and for making the gil off the currency we sell. There are some elements of the changes I'm absolutely excited about (like getting exp off of the mobs). but other aspects are vague and don't share enough detail about just how it's going to work... is it going to be like Nyzul Isle as far as reservations not having to be made? Does that mean zone limits will be a full alliance for all zones? Or does that mean we share the zone with a bunch of other groups doing it at the same time? This is something SE could possibly royally screw up. We don't even know what parts of our rules we'll need to change and how yet. It's kind of scary and exciting at the same time. It'll definitely take a while for us to adjust to the changes... I just hope the changes are truly for the best.

Randwolf

03-12-2011, 10:30 AM

I agree also. Right now, our Dyna LS is trying to figure out how these changes will affect our runs. We're not a typical LS... nobody in our LS is building a relic right now (to my knowledge) and we all have most of the gear we want. we basically do Dynamis for fun and for making the gil off the currency we sell. There are some elements of the changes I'm absolutely excited about (like getting exp off of the mobs). but other aspects are vague and don't share enough detail about just how it's going to work... is it going to be like Nyzul Isle as far as reservations not having to be made? Does that mean zone limits will be a full alliance for all zones? Or does that mean we share the zone with a bunch of other groups doing it at the same time? This is something SE could possibly royally screw up. We don't even know what parts of our rules we'll need to change and how yet. It's kind of scary and exciting at the same time. It'll definitely take a while for us to adjust to the changes... I just hope the changes are truly for the best.
I'm completely burned out on Dynamis. So, hopefully, these changes will make it interesting again. Maybe I'll even continue on that relic weapon I began.

Alhanelem

03-12-2011, 10:33 AM

The big part of the equation that is left out is the free labor. It's a bit extreme to refer to it as "free labor." It's not like there wasn't all this relic armor dropping that people wanted.

Randwolf

03-12-2011, 10:46 AM

It's a bit extreme to refer to it as "free labor." It's not like there wasn't all this relic armor dropping that people wanted.
Bwahaha. Provided by S/E. Just as I said in my post. S/E providing the armor is certainly something that helps the sponsor of runs get people to go. It's also why so many people who aren't pursuing relic weapons vanish not long after completing their armor sets, if that was their main enticement.

p.s. - if I hire you for a job and pay you with someone else's money, what is my net cost for your labor?

Alhanelem

03-12-2011, 10:48 AM

Naturebeckles

03-12-2011, 10:49 AM

It's a bit extreme to refer to it as "free labor." It's not like there wasn't all this relic armor dropping that people wanted.

I think "free labor" is a good label for some instances. Let's not forget the mostly selfish motives of some people who play. They form or join a group that can directly help them get what they want and then after they're done "using" those people, they're gone... off to find something else to get. That linkshell or group of people just became "free labor".

Alhanelem

03-12-2011, 10:53 AM

Randwolf

03-12-2011, 10:55 AM

True, but in my case, it was people I know that I wanted to see finish their weapons, combined with the fact that the one thing left that I needed to be "done": with dynamis... just never ever dropped. :p I now have the empyrean piece and still dont have the corresponding relic piece. :(

There are many friends I would help attain their relics for nothing in return. But, as NB said, their are a lot of selfish people who don't care if you get your armor or not. Just as long as they get you in the zone to farm currency.

Naturebeckles

03-12-2011, 10:57 AM

No one was holding a gun to anyone's head and telling them they had to go. If they *wanted* to go, it's not really "labor" if they wanted to be there.

Regardless, I find these changes very interesting and look forward to it having a good impact.

Uh yes... but some people in the game are very good at making you think they care about you until it's too late and THEN it's obvious they never cared about you in the first place. Very easy for people to accomplish this with so many elements of communication left out of the MMO world such as body language, eye contact and voice tones. Just sayin'...

Alhanelem

03-12-2011, 11:16 AM

Just FYI I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here. :p

Redaske

03-12-2011, 11:17 AM

Randwolf

03-12-2011, 11:21 AM

Just FYI I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here. :p
My issue is we will see some one-sided posters who's only thought is the cost of their relic and they will argue as though changing Dynamis will bring about the Apocalypse. However, I can immediately think of a genuine concern and that is the relic gear. With drop rates unchanged and being in a small party, the odds go down that the relic someone in your pt needs will go into your pool. There are ways around it. But, it definitely takes more coordination.

Naturebeckles

03-12-2011, 11:22 AM

Okay Problem number 1!: Small team yes will cost less. HOWEVER! With DECREASED currency drops and INCREASED number of people doing it = LESS STUFF FOR EVERYONE. = TAKES LONGER for a relic to be completed.

Seriously do you people think that Dynamis has no affect on the Economy? Reality Check do you need it?

Redaske... do you ALWAYS sound this stupid? Or do you do this on purpose? Nobody is claiming that Dynamis has no effect on the economy (you used the wrong "affect" there). Yes there will less currency and probably more people doing it... but now they can do it every day instead of once every three days. SE's thinking on this is that there will end up being MORE currency as a result. Brain cells, do you need them?

Bigmomma

03-12-2011, 11:29 AM

Naturebeckles

03-12-2011, 11:29 AM

Just FYI I'm mostly playing devil's advocate here. :p

lol... I hear ya. ;)

Alhanelem

03-12-2011, 11:30 AM

SE said that overall, they expect more currency to be produced. Since people don't have to shell out 500k for a shot at currency, prices of currency will drop. This is a Good Thing, not a bad thing.

OMG has this become a put down Redaske Forum or about the Game... #1 you have been playing what 3 years? he has been playing 7 or 8 and has seen alot more than you. Redaske is the one who was putting others down first. "All offense intended" to someone who said nothing insulting? And I've been playing for as long as the game has been out in the US. Red is just declaring that anyone who disagrees with him doesn't know what they're talking about. That's a lot more than 3 years. Not that any of this has any relevance to the topic.

Naturebeckles

03-12-2011, 11:37 AM

OMG has this become a put down Redaske Forum or about the Game... #1 you have been playing what 3 years? he has been playing 7 or 8 and has seen alot more than you. I have been on 6 years and have seen alot more than you and honestly, I really believe SE has really screwed people with this move.

Look, I don't need to be playing for 8 years to have input on intelligent conversation. If you had been reading more of the thread, he started throwing insults first and also made himself sound completely stupid about economics during his little trolling spree. If you're going to use time played as an indicator on how valid a person's conversation is, then kindly leave yourself out of this one.

Bleu_Lakshmi

03-12-2011, 12:44 PM

Alhanelem

You seriously don't understand the economy? How long have you been playing the game?? 4-5years at the most? I have been playing this game since it was in BETA. Abyssea has NO NONE ZIP ZERO effect on the economy. Why? BECAUSE IT IS FREE TO ENTER. Seriously have you ever taken an Economics course in High schoool or College? Granted Gil generation became easier due to Abyssea. HOWEVER CONSUMABLES VIA CRAFTING Still have the HIGHEST affect on the economy. GUESS WHAT! Most of the crafters WANT EVERYTHING. AKA Relics/Mythics/Empyrean. What they can't get by crafting THEY BUY WITH GIL. Where do they get there gil? Crafting Consumables/Buying it from RMT/etc.

All offense intended... YOU DO NOT UNDERSTAND THE BIG PICTURE.

You're right. You're the only one smart enough to understand the economy. My bad.

Skyrant_Kangaroomouse

03-12-2011, 03:24 PM

If this is the end of Dynamis, I'll be glad for this reason alone. Never was an event so monopolized to make 1 individual rich on the backs of everyone else's work. Shame on me for doing that event as long as I did....

There is much wisdom in your words my friend! +1

I have been sending SE mails every few months telling them to get rid of their stupid 72h timers (any of their cooldown timers) or the limitation of Assault tags and price of Salvage entry. FINALLY they listened after 8 years!

Alhanelem

03-12-2011, 03:34 PM

Never was an event so monopolized to make 1 individual rich on the backs of everyone else's work.I don't know anyone who "got rich" off dynamis. It was the players who sold coins who put a value on them. The people who sponsored runs did not make money, thay paid out millions.

There were some people who claimed to be going for a relic but then sold the currency, and I'd agree that those people sucked. But pushing a relic is (or maybe was) the only way to complete a relic in a reasonable amount of time (e.g. less than a year). Even if you had 999,999,999 gil, it would have taken forever to buy the currency from bazaars.

This change is for the better- mostly eliminating the cost of dynamis and making it an open area will both make relics easier to get and making the currency cheaper and eliminate all the hate, but stop labeling run sponsors as horrible people. For the most part, they're not.

If you feel you're being exploited, you have the right and ability to get out at any time. If you're honestly interested in helping someone get a relic, you have every right and ability to stay. All I know is the leaders of my shell were good people and did not walk all over everyone or behave in ways the group didn't approve. And they continued to run dynamis after relics were completed.

No matter who you are, as far as I can tell, everyone wins with these changes. I just don't like seeing people be unfairly hated on.

Randwolf

03-12-2011, 04:20 PM

I don't know anyone who "got rich" off dynamis. It was the players who sold coins who put a value on them. The people who sponsored runs did not make money, thay paid out millions.

There were some people who claimed to be going for a relic but then sold the currency, and I'd agree that those people sucked. But pushing a relic is (or maybe was) the only way to complete a relic in a reasonable amount of time (e.g. less than a year). Even if you had 999,999,999 gil, it would have taken forever to buy the currency from bazaars.

This change is for the better- mostly eliminating the cost of dynamis and making it an open area will both make relics easier to get and making the currency cheaper and eliminate all the hate, but stop labeling run sponsors as horrible people. For the most part, they're not.

If you feel you're being exploited, you have the right and ability to get out at any time. If you're honestly interested in helping someone get a relic, you have every right and ability to stay. All I know is the leaders of my shell were good people and did not walk all over everyone or behave in ways the group didn't approve. And they continued to run dynamis after relics were completed.

No matter who you are, as far as I can tell, everyone wins with these changes. I just don't like seeing people be unfairly hated on.
I think a lot of people have had bad experiences around the getting other people relics thing. It doesn't mean it always bad. But, I know that some of the following have occurred and probably really soured people on the sponsor thing:

1) Your point about those who actually sold the currency they were getting
2) Who was allowed to sponsor runs was based not on fairness but who the leaders liked
3) Dynamis Schedule was dictated by what one individual needed, even if a lot of people wanted gear from a different zone
4) Dynamis was a mandatory event so there wasn't a choice if you wanted to stay in the shell
5) In some shells, the sponsor couldn't lot relic gear. But some do allow the sponsor to lot gear
6) Most shells, especially before the cap was raised, required people to provide food, meds, and RR (so it wasn't cost free)
7) People got their relic and suddenly 'vanished'
8) When it came their turn to get to sponsor, so many people had left, the shell broke

There are shells out there are totally fair and the people getting to sponsor are good people. But, I think a lot of people have had experience with shells that did do things which might be considered unfair. This is probably why you don't see a lot of sympathy from the player base on how the changes affect people who sponsor runs. Again, in fairness, it isn't every shell that has sponsors that gives sponsor runs a bad name. But, there are enough of them that people have had an opportunity to experience the negative.

Alhanelem

03-12-2011, 04:26 PM

If this is instanced It's not instanced. It's an open area, like an abyssea area. FFXI does not have instancing (Assault is not "instanced." it has multiple copies of each little area out of shout range of eachother and one party can occupy each.)

Ilax

03-12-2011, 05:43 PM

1) Your point about those who actually sold the currency they were getting
That part just opened a door to RMT to sell gil to player that wanted to buy currency to get relic.

No matter the SOURCE of the story is the same to me, if is an HNM LS that sell ridill for 100m to GIL buyer, and that HNM buy relic with that GIL, then to me is from same source: RMT.

If you think Mr. Anybody buy currency by farming on they own (260m overpriced currency) then i am sorry but you really off track... back in the time was same story as it is today: 1 relic = 6~8month. So let say 52~68 run, so the real cost always been 52~68m until SE reduce glass to 500k, so 26m to 34m. Who the hell would pay 260m when real cost is 34m max????

2) Who was allowed to sponsor runs was based not on fairness but who the leaders liked
I leaded dynamis long time enough to know the real story about that

I can't talk for every linkshell, but i can state easy the reality of it, is not because you joining an linkshell that they have to work for you, and take a ticked and hope they choose you. Causing drama, show only 1/10, lot again everyone on AFv2 just because you love collect trophy, just piss off everyone in general just because you think you better then anyone, RESULT = No Thanks to Sponsor. Then if you pass all these test and been very present, then hope you lucky enough to be next on sponsor because there probably 10 other member like you. You don't like it? Make your own LS, but for god shake don't complain and claim 'IS UNFAIR'.

Dynamis Schedule was dictated by what one individual needed, even if a lot of people wanted gear from a different zone

Same as #2...

4) Dynamis was a mandatory event so there wasn't a choice if you wanted to stay in the shell
Of course, how you would like no one show when is the zone you need AF? Once again is selfish thinking, these kind of rule is to keep the group tight and make them able to success an event.

5) In some shells, the sponsor couldn't lot relic gear. But some do allow the sponsor to lot gear

In mine, sponsor never been allowed to lot on AF/Shadow gear/Accessory, even more rude then that, they had to be 1 yr minimum in the LS and they loose all they point as soon they sponsor 1 run. And trust me if i would see someone spend all they point on AF pre-sponsor, he would loose his chance. Chose your camp, you in for AF or for currency, because trust me i will take the member who did not rush to spend his point pre decision on next sponsor. Some might think leader are retarded and enough blind to not see it, trust me we not that dumb.

6) Most shells, especially before the cap was raised, required people to provide food, meds, and RR (so it wasn't cost free)

I never asked any of my member to bring such of item, for CoP zone, Xar, etc where you need poison pot or special medic, our sponsor always take care of the cost and ppl could buy it from they bazaar for 1 gil... For re-raise item we always got the same rule since day 1 of our dynamis. We offer random raise on wipe, if that is not enough for you then bring your RR2 pin, if you really wan R3, no problem we charging you point for it. [Not like there no alternative, and no we never been there to do babysitting] I was loosing 20~30k experience every Xarcabar just sac pulling everything to avoid too many of our member die (Of course that could have been avoid with skilled RDM.....) What can i say, you deal with what you have, ask anyone how many time my THF de-leveled to 74... NONE.... So ask me if i care for the player that die 1x and cry like a little baby: R3 onry! Even more funny when that one ask you for sponsor...

7) People got their relic and suddenly 'vanished'
That what happen when your leader accept anyone and have weak rule. Never happen once in my dynamis ls, and trust me that might never happen. There always a true risk, but as i stated we been enough selective to figure it out right.

8) When it came their turn to get to sponsor, so many people had left, the shell broke
This is why is the VERY IMPORTANT that who is about to sponsor is respected by everyone in the LS, once again if your leader put an a$$-h#le as sponsor, don't question yourself why everyone left.[/quote]

There are shells out there are totally fair and the people getting to sponsor are good people. But, I think a lot of people have had experience with shells that did do things which might be considered unfair. This is probably why you don't see a lot of sympathy from the player base on how the changes affect people who sponsor runs. Again, in fairness, it isn't every shell that has sponsors that gives sponsor runs a bad name. But, there are enough of them that people have had an opportunity to experience the negative.

I agree on that, i was myself in a unfair linkshell, i got shafted many time.... At the end i was doing all the duty job for the LS, as promise i would be able to sponsor... Guess what, when that time come he decided to take his friend instead of me to sponsor.... Guess what more insulting? His friend was a 1 week old member, versus me with him since start (2yr long). My reaction been simple, i left and created my own LS that ended to be more successful in 1 week as i stated in my other post. (our LS on 4th relic completion in last 2yr).

Dynamis is such of hardcore event, is more then only bashing on mob for Af/Relic... well... used to be... I guess new option for relic is buy currency from everyone after this update. Dream on if you think you can get one for 34m after this update.

Atomic_Skull

03-12-2011, 08:19 PM

SE said that overall, they expect more currency to be produced. Since people don't have to shell out 500k for a shot at currency, prices of currency will drop. This is a Good Thing, not a bad thing.

Actually they did not. What they said was that they expect greater currency DISTRIBUTION across the servers, not that more currency will enter the server.

It's apparent that SE doesn't want relics to become easier to upgrade, they just want to eliminate exploitation.

Also, if they are going to the bother of completely remaking Dynamis and NOT making relics easier to obtain I expect there will be additional "new and worse" Relic upgrade stages added as well.

I wouldn't be surprised if they crank up the difficulty to be a challenge to lvl 90+ players either.

However if they make it so that relics are actually worth the time to upgrade vs empyreans I'm fine with it. But if relics remain second best behind weapons that take a week or two to upgrade it'll just be a bad joke.

Naturebeckles

03-12-2011, 09:26 PM

Actually they did not. What they said was that they expect greater currency DISTRIBUTION across the servers, not that more currency will enter the server.

.

Quoted from the original development post:

"Treasure:
There are no plans to change the drop rate of Relic equipment.
Along with the reduction of the entry time restriction, the amount of Ancient Currency earned per session will be lowered. Overall, this change should increase the Ancient Currency distributed across the World."

But really? you're going to mince words with somebody just so you sound smarter than them? The way I read this, SE DOES indeed expect more currency in the servers because of the fact you will be able to do Dynamis every day instead of once every three days even with the decrease in currency drops. Don't sit there and correct people just because they word the same concept differently than you.

Ilax

03-12-2011, 10:22 PM

As much i love dynamis, who say i wan do it more then 2x/week? [8h total] Now just imagine who hated it...

They better find something that interest everyone for sure. It always been open everyday. For who was fighting to enter on wed/sun, that also wont change anything for them, oh ya except is 'an open zone'. The only real result i can see about all this is how the currency going to be spread out around server, and as i stated don't even think to be able do a relic for 34m anymore, be ready to pay 200m+ for it. Hello Gil buyer, because i don't know anyone that can spend that much....

Now for who is again super positive about it and saying i am so wrong with my argument, let see again... you need ~17,500 currency, at 2k each = 35m... Average drop per run as it is atm is 300 currency, 300 * 2k = 600k total will drop from every run but spread to how many, 32~64 player? Let see what we obtain:

600k / 32 member = 18.75k each for doing dynamis 4h long not bad right? A good 4.6875k profit per hours.
600k / 64 member = 9.375k each for doing dynamis 4h long not bad right? A good 2.34375k profit per hours.

Now let say you REALLY LUCKY and only 16 player are in the zone.

600k / 16 member = 37.5k each for doing dynamis 4h long not bad right? A good 9.375k profit per hours.

I mean are you really going to do that????? Seriously that bullshit, no way anyone would spend 1 hours of they time for 9.3k, a damn ring in gold box from abyssea sell to NPC for 34k, give me a break...

See the Real REALITY OF THIS IS: Everyone wan a good reward out of what they are doing, and can be sure they wan at least do a good 25k/hours right? We not a bunch of slave... So let reform all the math with a decent number (25k x4h = 100k)

16 player wan 100k each = 1,600,000 gil, expect currency to be at minimum 1,600,000/300 = 5.3k per currency
32 player wan 100k each = 3,200,000 gil, expect currency to be at minimum 3,200,000/300 = 10.6k per currency
64 player wan 100k each = 6,400,000 gil, expect currency to be at minimum 6,400,000/300 = 21k per currency

Don't some see the market here???? 32 player average, hello demand/offer??!?!? So let continue with all this, we said you need 17,500 currency, so let just ignore 16 member and 64, let go with average 32, 17,500 * 10.6k = 185,500,000 Gil.

Did i forget something? Oh yes i did, SE tell us the number of currency per run will be reduced, WHAT? So expect my current math to be wrong, and is actually going to be even more expensive to do a relic. So please people stop dreaming, and pay more attention how game mechanic/economy really work.

The real question is how much you think you should get for 1h out of this event? 185m relic = ppl expect to get 25k per hours, again who still dream about relic?....

Oh for GIL buyer, lmao they going to be ALL HAPPY, IRL price wont change much for them and the availability of currency going to be all up for them....

so who win out of all this? Wake up people.

REFUSE THIS UPDATE

Alhanelem

03-13-2011, 02:27 AM

Oh yes i did, SE tell us the number of currency per run will be reduced, WHAT?Only to the extent to keep the currency situation from being totally flooded because you can now go SEVEN DAYS A WEEK INSTEAD OF 2 DAYS MAX.

In other words, you can go 3 times more often, but the currency rate will probably only be adjusted slightly. Therefore more currency goes out over all, it's just in the hands of a larger number of people.

ACCEPT THIS UPDATE

Ilax

03-13-2011, 05:19 AM

Oh wow.. you obviously read nothing of my post, thanks you Alhanelem to post blindly.

I have 3 question now for you, i hope you can answer 1 of them, just 1, because, if no then you just doing it on purpose to troll me. Also your comment is impersonating me, take more time to read forum policy & rule.

#1 How much you would be ready to pay for your relic? (Gil of course)
#2 How much gil per hours you think is a good reward for you?
#3 How many hours you think is acceptable to finish a relic?

And please elaborate how this update is so awesome, it is because you can now enter 7 day in a row instead 2day a week, are you really telling me you or anyone left dynamis because they could only spend 8 hours a week? I leaded dynamis for way too long, 95% already hated the time sink dynamis was.

** Edit **

[GIL buyer]
ACCEPT THIS UPDATE
[/GIL buyer]

*impersonating you as you do calling me immature my friend with my own content.

Alhanelem

03-13-2011, 05:47 AM

Oh wow.. you obviously read nothing of my post, thanks you Alhanelem to post blindly.I didn't post blindly, and I did read your post. God, I'm really sick of that cop out. Address the response instead of attacking the person. It's also ridiculous to suggest that I'm "impersonating" you. I've never claimed to be you, fool people into thinking i'm you, or done anything that even remotely resembles impersonating. sarcastically imitating a silly remark you made is not impersonating.

I'm not answering your questions because they're not relevant. My opinions about how long a relic should take or how much it should cost have nothing to do with whether these dynamis changes are good or not.

are you really telling me you or anyone left dynamis because they could only spend 8 hours a week?No... where would you get that idea? There are a few key problems with the current system.

1) Only one group can do a particular run. Since you can only run every three days (usually twice a week rather than literally every 3 days), you usually plan it in advance. Inevitiably, given that th ere are many dynamis groups that run in the same time periods and a limited number of areas to go to, people will want to do the same area at the same time. Rarely do people cooperate and work some deal out. usually it results in one group rushing to get in before the other one, thus leaving the other group pissed and forced to do something different from what they had planned weeks ago.
2)Dynamis is (usually) over 4 hours long. Many people play for a while every day but don't have time for a 4+ hour event, or won't be able to do anything else that day. By allowing people to go in every day for a shorter time period, it becomes more accessible to people with less time and also becomes more enjoyable (in my opinion) because it doesn't drag on for so long.
3)The 72 hour cooldown makes it difficult to schedule the event at the most convenient times for you and your group. Hence the change to 24 hours.
4)It wasn't a big deal for me, but some more hardcore people probably DID not like the maximum amount of time they could farm in a week. SE hasn't given us what the new time limits will be, but given that X and BCD are too big areas to traverse and kill much stuff in an hour, as well as most people who go are not going to want to do it absolutely every day, I'm sure it will be more than a 1 hour max, and the hardcore people will probably be able to get more than 8 hours in dynamis in a week if that's what they really want.

I leaded dynamis for way too long, 95% already hated the time sink dynamis was. All the more reason this update is a good idea. A few hours here and there when you feel like doing it > locked into a twice a week, excessively long period of time to be running.

I don't see how this update is bad for anyone but the most stubborn purists who can't stand anything they're used to being changed in any way, regardless of whether the changes are good or not.

Rezeak

03-13-2011, 05:49 AM

I have few questions for you Ilax
how can u draw up how much gil per hour or w/e from content not released?
Why does 16,32 and 64 member make the same amount of gil ?

All i'll say is Dyna as it is atm is really dead i know a few linkshells still go but it's largely inaccessible or not worth doing by 90% of FFXI. My linkshell stopped going cause we don't need gil and the relic gear is meh compared to af3+1/2.

Least after this a group of 6 could prolly go and finally get af2 gear for there jobs.

Basically SE can do w/e they want to do to dyna and if it messes it up guess what it's still useless like it was before but least it's more accessable

Ilax

03-13-2011, 06:10 AM

I have few questions for you Ilax
how can u draw up how much gil per hour or w/e from content not released?
Why does 16,32 and 64 member make the same amount of gil ?

My post was pointing 'average' gil wise, nothing avoid you to take the same math and reverse it to see how long you will need to do a relic in such of new system. 300 currency / 32 player average = 9.375 currency per 4 hours event, you will need 17,500/9.375 = 1866x 4 hours event, 5.11 year, or if you prefer 7464 hours investment. or you put a price on currency saying everyone wan at least 100k to put 4h of they time into event, then is 100k/9.375 = 10.6k value per currency, 185,000,000 gil cost. Again the old system, all you need is 34m, couple friend (12 in our case) and 6~8 month. New system will cost you nothing, but you have to do it for 5.11 year long.

So in the end, the only way you be able to finish a relic as it was possible before this update (in 6~8 month) You will need 12~16 friend helping you and giving you they currency. Don't all this is already what people do by joining a linkshell that have a sponsor?

And please do not tell me people will come back just for AF... Or SE better give a way to upgrade it, that would be awesome of course, but SE is not talking about that, not at all.

All i'll say is Dyna as it is atm is really dead i know a few linkshells still go but it's largely inaccessible or not worth doing by 90% of FFXI.

Elaborate dead, is less popular then abyssea, i agree. Dead? is 250+ player that still do dynamis only on fenrir considered dead event? How many do campaign, sky, salvage, to make the list short: all outside abyssea. And are you really thinking dynamis had a huge need to be updated before other event?

My linkshell stopped going cause we don't need gil and the relic gear is meh compared to af3+1/2.

How this update will change these statement?

Least after this a group of 6 could prolly go and finally get af2 gear for there jobs.

Basically SE can do w/e they want to do to dyna and if it messes it up guess what it's still useless like it was before but least it's more accessable

That about the only positive part of the update, but again why do people wan to do dynamis again? Not for af, but more about relic weapon...

Alhanelem

03-13-2011, 06:19 AM

How this update will change these statement?If you never wanted to do a relic, and you don't need to scam people for gil with overpriced currency, and you don't need any relic armors, then it doesn't. That's not what these changes are for. They're for the people who DO have a reason to do dynamis.

Ilax

03-13-2011, 06:22 AM

I'm not answering your questions because they're not relevant.

Of course, because we all know everyone wan come back in dynamis just for the AF or why not while we at this, for the fun of wasting they time. Of course SE adding up NM that drop Abyssea stuff, but i mean seriously...

Alhanelem

03-13-2011, 06:31 AM

(i hope you know what that mena, i feel sorry for you if you all alone in your world of FFXI)Stop it with the personal attacks, k thanks. I have my share of friends. Also, your comments keep contradicting eachother. Earlier, you said you were sick of running dynamis. Now suddenly you're motivated again.

Secondly, what in this update will make you have a reason to do it, I started a relic and never finished it. Because the cost will be mostly eliminated, and because I can just call on a few friends to help instead of needing a big group or dump all my gil into buying from bazaars, I feel like I might be able to get it finished. I also have a few relic armor pieces that have evaded me to this day.

Ilax

03-13-2011, 06:43 AM

Earlier, you said you were sick of running dynamis. Now suddenly you're motivated again.
Never said i am sick of dynamis, i said ITT people complain they sick about it, please don't put me in the same boat.

I started a relic and never finished it. Because the cost will be mostly eliminated, and because I can just call on a few friends to help instead of needing a big group or dump all my gil into buying from bazaars, I feel like I might be able to get it finished. I also have a few relic armor pieces that have evaded me to this day.

But the same can be done in existing system, asking your friend to give you they currency(new system) or asking them to form a linkshell (in current system) is the same, outside in this current system you have to deal with the challenge of link, and of course 4h long event, i mean i see where you coming from... There a reason a relic is a prestigious weapon in the game... Mythic weapon are even more hardcore then dynamis relic weapon, should SE turn these into easy mode too?

You might think is right to destroy an even that i love just to accommodate you way, but no is not. Is not for me as is not for everyoen that still love to do dynamis.