Elements to be Implemented in the March 27th Version Update

[Camate]

Greetings everyone!

Please take a moment to read over the following post by Producer Akihiko Matsui regarding adjustments that will be taking place in the upcoming version update.

---
Hello,

Matsui here.

I've been quite busy preparing for the release of Seekers of Adoulin and I'm sorry that my posting frequency has gone down a bit.

I'd like to make a separate post in regards to content related to Seekers of Adoulin, but I've been writing and erasing text, so for now I'd like to inform you all about the adjustments mentioned previously that will be implemented in the March 27th Version Update.


Enmity Adjustments
In regards to enmity, we will be performing the first stage of the content that was discussed previously (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/30629-Enmity-System-Explanation-and-Planned-Adjustments?p=402769&viewfull=1#post402769). To start out, we will be making adjustments so that if the target is level 51 or above, the enmity generated in proportion to the damage dealt, and the enmity incurred in relation to the amount of HP cured, will be reduced. In the case that the target is above level 99, the amount of enmity generated will be reduced to 30% compared to before adjustment (the current level). We are also making adjustments at the same time so that the enmity gains from Cure V are reduced.

While this isn't limited to enmity adjustments, we understand this is an element that we need to continuously follow and address, and I wanted to remind you that this would be the first step.


Attack/Defense Ratio Adjustments
This is in regards to the post I made previously about future battle system adjustments (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29831-Overall-Battle-System-Adjustments-for-the-Future?p=392863&viewfull=1#post392863).
We will be making adjustments based on the content described under the "Regarding Defense" header. After the adjustment, in the case that a player's defense is significantly lower compared to a monster’s attack power, the amount of damage received will be higher than what it is currently.

Example:

For the below values:
Monster attack damage value = 100
Monster attack power = 1000
Your defense = 250

The damage received will be as follows:
Pre-adjustment amount of damage received = 200
Post-adjustment amount of damage received = 400
*This is just a simple calculation to make it easy to illustrate the change.

To go along with the above, the below two adjustments will also be made:

The maximum value for damage dealt from the attack defense ratio will be adjusted so they are identical for both single-handed weapons and two-handed weapons.
The defense reduction penalty for "Counterstance" will be reduced.



Embrava and Perfect Defense Adjustments
This is regarding Embrava and Perfect Defense adjustments that were described previously (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/28187-Adjustments-to-Embrava-and-Perfect-Defense?p=370978&viewfull=1#post370978).
There have been no changes made to the aspects outlined previously, but I'd like to go over the adjustments once again. Along with these changes we will be making adjustments to various battle content, so I will be going over each of the adjustments planned breaking it down by content.


Embrava
<table width="600" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" class="ta01"><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"><td width="15%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7"></td><td width="35%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Before</td><td width="10%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7"></td><td width="40%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">After</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Effect Duration</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">5 min</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">→</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">90 sec</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Haste</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">+1% per 15 enhancing magic skill</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">→</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">+1% per 20 enhancing magic skill</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Regain</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Regain</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">→</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Refresh</td></tr></table>

Perfect Defense
<table width="600" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" class="ta01"><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"><td width="15%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7"></td><td width="25%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Before</td><td width="10%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7"></td><td width="30%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">After</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Effect Duration</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">90 sec</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">→</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">30 sec (+1 sec per 20 summoning magic skill)</td></tr></table>



For adjustments related to various battle content, we will be performing the adjustments outlined in my previous post (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29831-Overall-Battle-System-Adjustments-for-the-Future?p=392863#post392863) and the follow-up made by Camate (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29831-Overall-Battle-System-Adjustments-for-the-Future?p=394568&viewfull=1#post394568).


Adjustments to Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey
Adjustments will be made to the levels of monsters.
<table width="400" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="1" class="ta01"><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="th01"><td width="45%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Floor</td><td width="45%" align="center" class="th01" bgcolor="#a8d0d7">Level</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Floors 1-19</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Reduced by 10 levels</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Floors 20-39</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Reduced by 7 levels</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Floors 40-59</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Reduced by 4 levels</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Floors 60-79</td><td bgcolor="#f5fafb">Reduced by 2 levels</td></tr><tr valign="middle" align="center" class="td01"><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">Floors 80-100</td><td bgcolor="#eaf2f3">No change</td></tr></table>

*These changes will also be applied to notorious monsters.
Adjustments will be made to the stats of a portion of notorious monsters that only spawn in Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey. We will be making adjustments so that damage dealt will be higher than the current values when utilizing a mode of attack that exploits a monster's weakness, such as blunt attacks, piercing attacks, magic attacks, etc.


Adjustments to Legion
Special characteristics will be attributed to the monsters that spawn.
In addition to the reduction of stats such as HP, attack power, and defense, we will also be setting special monster weaknesses. While some monsters stats will see increases at the same time as the reductions, it will be possible to defeat them much easier than before the adjustment when attacking their weakness.


Adjustments to Einherjar
Stats such as HP, attack power, and defense for Odin will be reduced for Odin's Chamber II.


Adjustments to Voidwatch
The range of use for Void clusters will be expanded to Provenance.


Adjustments to Walk of Echoes
Monster levels will be reduced, the "EX" status will be removed from each type of coin and sack, and sacks will be added that dispense multiple Devious Die and Liminal Residue.


Adjustments to Salvage
The drop rates for level 35 equipment will be revamped, and changes will be made so that monsters other than the NMs that spawn from ramparts in Bhaflau Remnants drop the same equipment.


Adjustments to Twilight Scythe
As was mentioned in a previous post (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29831-Overall-Battle-System-Adjustments-for-the-Future?p=398443&viewfull=1#post398443), we will be changing the weapon so that the regular attacks are slashing damage and by using an enchantment they can become non-elemental.

The enchantment can be used 10 seconds after equipping the weapon and will be set as below:
Effect duration: 60 seconds
Recast time: 10 minutes
Charges: Unlimited



Finally, here are some other adjustments that will be made.

Expansion of the /yell Feature
As outlined by Camate (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29952-yell-Expansion?p=400165&viewfull=1#post400165), we will be expanding the range of /yell in the below manner; however, the addition of this feature to the Chocobo Circuit will not take place at this time until other features have been added to that area:

Ru'Lude Gardens / Upper Jeuno / Lower Jeuno / Port Jeuno
↓
Ru'Lude Gardens / Upper Jeuno / Lower Jeuno / Port Jeuno / Aht Urhgan Whitegate / East Adoulin / West Adoulin


Changes to Mog Tablet Rewards
As was mentioned by Camate (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26649-Mog-Tablet-Prizes?p=402757&viewfull=1#post402757), we will be keeping the Nomad Moogle statute and Talaria as prizes, but will be switching out other rewards. To keep it a surprise, we won't reveal which rewards have been switched, but keep in mind it's still a bonus type of item.


Auto-translate
Since it would not be possible to add new terms related to Seekers of Adoulin without deleting words that are not used frequently, we will be eliminating words to add new ones. Moving forward we plan to switch out words in the dictionary as well.



As I mentioned at the beginning of this post, I will be doing my best to make a post next week about the addition of Seekers of Adoulin content.

Also, we've been working extremely hard on other adjustments besides the ones described above, and once we are at the stage where we can share information I will be sure to make a post on the forums.

Thank you all very much.
---

[Economizer]

Greetings everyone!

Please take a moment to read over the following post by Producer Akihiko Matsui regarding adjustments that will be taking place in the upcoming version update.

I'd like to make a separate post in regards to content related to Seekers of Adoulin, but I've been writing and erasing text, so for now I'd like to inform you all about the adjustments mentioned previously that will be implemented in the March 27th Version Update.

Demon Wall of Text!~

http://i.imgur.com/kyuA1ZH.png


We are also making adjustments at the same time so that the enmity gains from Cure V are reduced.

You are including the nearly useless Cure VI in the enmity reduction right? Right? (For the MP cost I almost expect Cure VI to reduce enmity...)

Is it your intent to have White Mages have to tradeoff between less efficient Cure V/VI with less enmity or bigger enmity Cure III/IV but more MP efficiency?


While this isn't limited to enmity adjustments, we understand this is an element that we need to continuously follow and address, and I wanted to remind you that this would be the first step.

Will spells be included in the enmity adjustments, or will we see magic damage draw more enmity now?


Attack/Defense Ratio Adjustments

Should mages be stocking up on Tavnazian Tacos now, or will there be actual mage food implemented that provides a valid tradeoff compared to stacking defense?


As outlined by Camate (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29952-yell-Expansion?p=400165&viewfull=1#post400165), we will be expanding the range of /yell in the below manner; however, the addition of this feature to the Chocobo Circuit will not take place at this time until other features have been added to that area:

This sucks, I was hoping the Chocobo Circuit would be a convenient gathering place for building parties.


Auto-translate
Since it would not be possible to add new terms related to Seekers of Adoulin without deleting words that are not used frequently, we will be eliminated words to add new ones. Moving forward we plan to switch out words in the dictionary as well.

Is this purely a PS2 limitation or server side as well? Do you track usage frequency of auto-translate phrases used?

[Helel]

1-handed adjustments are cool, though I thought he mentioned something about increasing accuracy for 1-handed, and attack for 2-handed, instead of just increasing the pDIF cap. Either way, I can't complain.

I hope the "other adjustments" are RNG recycle adjustments.

Furthermore, something more needs to be done with provenance. It's an annoying, time consuming event with horrible drop rates. The problem is NOT killing provenance watcher or the caturaes (void cluster adjustment is unnecessary). The problem is you have to kill 6 NMs before you can even face the one you're really there for. All that needs to be done is to simply reduce the cruor cost of the key items.

[HimuraKenshyn]

Adjustments to Twilight Scythe
As was mentioned in a previous post, we will be changing the weapon so that the regular attacks are slashing damage and by using an enchantment they can become non-elemental.

The enchantment can be used 10 seconds after equipping the weapon and will be set as below:
Effect duration: 60 seconds
Recast time: 10 minutes
Charges: Unlimited


Will Ws be affected during this time? Talk about a waste of inventory space if it is not. At least leave it some use before I toss it ><;;

[Kaisha]

30% emnity drop on what I assume is all forms of damage, doesn't really seem like it'd change up much in the grand scheme of things, unless monsters start hitting for 1,000 damage normally that would necessitate a proper tank, vs. damage dealers in -DamageTaken setups.

[Kalilla]

Hello Camate :)

There is a debate currently going on at the other forums, and I'd like to see if you could clear this up for us.

Original japanese text:


対象のレベルが99以上の場合で、調整前（＝現状）の3割程度に軽減されます。

Translated earlier today by Slycer on BG:


If the level of the target is higher than 99, it will be reduced to about 30% of the amount before the adjustment.

Translated by you:


If the level of the target is higher than 99, it will be reduced by about 30% of the amount before the adjustment

Of course saying it's reduced by is completely different than being reduced to, so you can see where the confusion is coming from.

For example:
100% - 30% = 70% <<< Example of reducing it BY 30%
100% - 70% = 30% <<< Example of reducing it TO 30%

If you could please clear this up for us and double check it would be a great help :)


If he used "o/wo" instead of "ni" as his particle then Camate's would have been correct, but as it stands, I'm pretty sure mine's correct. Maybe someone with more technical knowledge of JP grammar can help clarify.

[Camate]

Sorry for the confusion. I didn't actually consider the difference in how it sounded with "by," but I can see the problem now. It will be reduced to 30% of the current value. I made edits to the original post as well.

[Pebe]

This is nice start with the enmity. Now give PLD a subbable job trat(like lvl 49) that increases the enmity gained per damaging action back to its original value. That way RUN/PLD would be very viable, as long as RUN gets its own provoke type action.

[Kalilla]

Sorry for the confusion. I didn't actually consider the difference in how it sounded with "by," but I can see the problem now. It will be reduced to 30% of the current value. I made edits to the original post as well.
Thank you so much for the quick response Camate :)

[Evilkairi]

Will we see the New Sp's (1hrs, 2hrs whatever you wanna call em) implemented whit the update or are we waiting 2-4 more months to maybe get all that content wich been promised so long now?

[MarkovChain]

Ok girls someone explain me why every endgame content gets ajusted except ADL ? Can we at least nerf ADL's HP ? Even legion got nerf to ridiculness. Not that it matters because noone does legion so even less will do it after the nerf, but still, ADL provides the means to get the best weapons in the game >< so people will need it ad infinitum. In other words marrows are becoming ~ 2x harder to gather.

[Prothscar]

hahahahaha



ok then now to respond to the adjustments:

actually looks really good, im impressed that SE's finally addressing these issues and actually succeeding in making changes that will have some feasible impact on gameplay. tanking for a few minutes instead of a few seconds should now be possible as the damage required to cap CE has effectively tripled

[Rorrick]

Camate, can we get clarification on whether or not the attack ratio adjustments for one-handed weapons will apply to Hand-to-hand or not?

[MarkovChain]

Oviously it will, it makes makes monk the best DD +12.5%.

[Prothscar]

hahahahahahahahahahaha

[Ryx]

Adjustments to Voidwatch
The range of use for Void clusters will be expanded to Provenance.


First off: /vote no. Voidwatch is already farrrr too easy thanks to the overwhelming amount of skill-killing temporary items. Provenance is the one place in Voidwatch that you CAN'T take an alliance of freshly-leveled abyssea noobs wearing perle and aurore gear and beat it simply by using 5 Void clusters all at one time, please do NOT take this away.


Adjustments to Legion
Special characteristics will be attributed to the monsters that spawn.
In addition to the reduction of stats such as HP, attack power, and defense, we will also be setting special monster weaknesses. While some monsters stats will see increases at the same time as the reductions, it will be possible to defeat them much easier than before the adjustment when attacking their weakness.

NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, NO, and again HELL NO. Just hearing the words "special monster weaknesses" calls to mind visions of abyssea and voidwatch where setup is determined by proc jobs, and mobs are frozen for open, mindless zerg-fest. Legion is FUN because it is one of the only events that is actually CHALLENGING in this game, do NOT take this away from us.

This requires a much more detailed explanation as to how this is WON'T be a repeat of the proc-based disasters of prior events. Without such an explanation, this sounds like a terrible, terrible idea. PROC SYSTEMS ARE TERRIBLE!!! Now if it's more akin to disabling a certain TP move or ability...that's one thing, but the history with exploiting weaknesses is one of terrorizing the mob for mindless face-raping. I'm sure I'm far from alone in wishing for Legion NOT to suffer such a cruel fate.

Other than that, I have nothing but cheer (or tolerance) for the rest of what Matsui said. I'm in favor of Perfect Defense and Embrava getting nerfed globally, and for the enmity adjustments, and Dark Knights getting face-raped twice as hard.

Updating the auto-translate dictionary is fine...just do a study on what people actually USE in auto-translate...I.e: Don't get rid of such things as [Are you alone?] or [I don't know how answer that question.]

That's my two gil on the matter...cheer at most of it, but utter revolt at the proposed adjustments to Legion and Provenance. I realize these are both heavily Embrava-reliant events at this time, but I would rather see them made unbeatable for a time by the masses than made too easy in fear that the Embrava nerf will prove too severe for those situations.

[saevel]

Attack/Defense Ratio Adjustments
This is in regards to the post I made previously about future battle system adjustments.
We will be making adjustments based on the content described under the "Regarding Defense" header. After the adjustment, in the case that a player's defense is significantly lower compared to a monster’s attack power, the amount of damage received will be higher than what it is currently.

Example:

For the below values:
Monster attack damage value = 100
Monster attack power = 1000
Your defense = 250

The damage received will be as follows:
Pre-adjustment amount of damage received = 200
Post-adjustment amount of damage received = 400
*This is just a simple calculation to make it easy to illustrate the change.

To go along with the above, the below two adjustments will also be made:

The maximum value for damage dealt from the attack defense ratio will be adjusted so they are identical for both single-handed weapons and two-handed weapons.
The defense reduction penalty for "Counterstance" will be reduced.


Camate .... very big & important question. The other thread you mentioned raising the monster attack cap from 2.0 to 3.0, the above example is assuming a 4.0 cap. Monsters are already hitting people for 400+ a hit, does SE expect us to take 800+ in damage per hit? Also the other thread mentioned removing the monsters level based attack bonus, is this still being removed along with the raising of the monster attack ratio cap?

I mentioned these because if the level based attack bonus is not removed ... high level monsters will be dealing 1000~2000+ damage per melee hit on anyone who isn't an Paladin with Burtang. I know SE is wanting to make defense more important, yet 4.0 as a cap is extremely excessive if the monster is allowed to keep it's level bonus.

-=Edit=-

Another thing that came up. Camate will the developers be doing anything about the rampant use of defense down by every NM they've created? Currently all the harder NM's use some form of aoe defense down move that renders our defense useless. Even someone with Defender + Cocoon + Protect V + Taco will have no defense if something like Aegis Schism, Bilgestorm, Tourbillion, Yaksha: Damnation, Shadow Wreck, Dark Star or Flank Opening hits them. There are too many -defense moves to name and they all make defense pretty useless of a state to use.

[Monchat]

First off: /vote no. Voidwatch is already farrrr too easy thanks to the overwhelming amount of skill-killing temporary items. Provenance is the one place in Voidwatch that you CAN'T take an alliance of freshly-leveled abyssea noobs wearing perle and aurore gear and beat it simply by using 5 Void clusters all at one time, please do NOT take this away.

Are you trying to explain us you win provenance without procs and temps or something? Those fights are equally retarded as any other VW fights, clusters are good news if you dont have to gatehr 18 peopel to win. bringing 18 people =/= skill.

[Fermion]

Where is the Elemental Magic update?

[Luvbunny]

This is very good news, finally most endgame contents are adjusted to be more accessible and easier to complete. Amazing news for Voidwatch, now you can even do it with much more ease. Great thinking overall, looking forward for the expansion, hopefully they make one that will be able to beat Abyssea as the most amazing add ons ever created. It's about time we are getting a real add ons that is well done and accessible for all players. Hoping the contents are not limited for 4 years before you get to see most of them.

[ShadedOnyx]

I want to know why these were changed. What was so broken about the twilight scythe?

Why is embrava getting the reduction? Because people are using it the way it was designed?

I really don't understand why all these things are being brought down. And i'd really like an answer. Not because I am ranting. But because it seems like these changes get made regardless of player opinion. I mean seriously. Why are you doubling the damage we take by mobs for having low defense?

Just some explainations as to why would be "VERY" appreciated.

[Demon6324236]

I like all of this except for one thing, please make Embrava at very least 150 seconds rather than 90 seconds. The duration as it is currently going to be set to is simply much to low for it to really be effective. I understand the idea of weakening it, and its a good call, but the duration its currently getting will make it much weaker than I believe you are aiming for, to the point few will care to use it rather than more reliable buffs.

[Landsoul]

I am honestly more concerned about the adjustment towards monster's attack, let's say TP move use to do significant amount of damage 1k+ would this mean that after this update the damage would only increase further if you have melee using Berserk or DRKs in this case using Last Resort. I think this could be a rather problematic adjustment if not executed right making it for melee impossible to Berserk or Last Resort without taking to much damage which resulting being oneshotted by TP moves. If a TP move did about 1-2k before and if it only would increase further it would be impossible for melee DD to use propper buffs. Guess we'll just have to see how it turns out.

I just hope the developement team will take it into consideration not going overboard with the attack adjustments on NMs/Monsters making it impossible for melee using Berserk or Last resort without taking to much damage. If this only counts for melee hits while still being capped on TP moves I wouldn't see this as a to big of a deal. If this also significantly boosts the damage of TP moves, when it comes to hard fights or even future content it could pose an issue unless you think fighting something with multiple deaths is a good idea.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Where is the Elemental Magic update?

Right after the Collect Underpants Subligar update.

[Infidi]

Poor Cait Sith. No one loves you. :(

[Trumpy]

Ryx, i am pretty sure the weakness system they speak of is exactly the same as what they described immediately above it. its not a proc. its a weakness. like how many mobs are more weak to peircing or slashin or blunt. aka skeletons are weak to blunt (hence KRT mnk parties back in the day.) colibri are weak to piercing. they want to make these weaknesses mean something again by makin it show more difference then a couple points of dmg.

ShadedOnyx i understand ur disappointment, i am as well but they ve explained these changes a lot already thru out the year. We might not understand them however. Im sad by the embrava nerf but honestly i couldnt believe what it did when it was added to the game. thot it was probably too powerful. problem is that they started designin stuff that was very difficult to beat without embrava. I dont see many people usign embrava at all after this. (i cant think of a time recently where mages didnt have enuf refresh somehow or another or using that much to need another form of it) but in changin it at least they are changin the things we felt we needed to use embrava for. Will it be enuf i dunno but im hopin.

Ive not done legion yet nor have i done alot of the other stuff (i have gottena brief taste tho). but i have seen a video of some guys killin at least 16 of the nms in legion in a run. which is more than i imagined from what i heard about it. So it must be possible.

[Kincard]

It baffles me somewhat that people don't understand why most of these nerfs are needed when they've explained multiple times over the past couple months why these nerfs are coming.

Attack/Defense Ratio: "We can't just mindlessly ride berserk every time the timer is up now"- that's the point. There's no strategy involved if what the players are facing is "Our defense is so low berserk has no downsides anyway". If they make it so that defense matters again, you need to actually pay attention when to use berserk, when to not use berserk, and when to cancel berserk if its already up. I will agree though, that the only worry I have is stuff like Enraged Hydra that can already do over 1500 damage with Trembling even without berserk up. If the ratio is raised to a 4.0 cap for monsters that means Trembling is going to be doing 3000 damage which is obviously impossible to prevent. You'd need to wear 50% PDT, put up defender and such and you'd still take way more damage than is reasonable.

Embrava/PD: Don't think it needs to be explained further, these abilities broke the game into "buff, embrava/PD, zerg". There seems to be this misconception running around that they "designed" events around embrava and PD simply because the playerbase using them for eventse. If the playerbase comes up with strategies that involve nothing but embrava, that isn't the designers saying "this event is made with embrava in mind", that's called the playerbase using an overpowered tool that should've never been added in the first place.

The task is to chop down a tree. They give you an axe, a saw, and a laser cannon. That isn't them designing the tree only to be cut down by the laser beam, its them giving you a tool that completely outclasses the other ones when chopping down the tree was meant to be a task to help you build character. (In b4 someone takes this metaphor too seriously like most people on the internet)

Still, I agree that the duration should probably be just a bit higher than what it currently is. In the planned state it's hard to take full use of an ability that's meant to be most effective over time. If they just want to make it an "oh shit button" 90 seconds probably is still too short. Most battles last longer than 90 seconds. I think 150 or even 180 seconds would work better.

Twilight Scythe: Ouch, I understand why this nerf had to be done, but I think it went way too far. The scythe is basically useless now unless you're an entry-level DRK in need of a decent weapon. Probably would get Wroth Scythe before this thing, though.

The enmity changes are a good start, but all it'll do is allow for maybe 2 minutes before people hit hate cap instead of 45 seconds or whatever. Gonna need something a lot more drastic, and probably also going to need new hate spiking moves for the tank jobs.

[NDSI]

Well with the changes to Embrava... get your Neo-Nyzul Isle gear asap (if you don't have it already), cause the level changes that are gonna be made on the monsters are neglectable, and are not gonna make it any easier with the many crappy floor jumps...

[Dazusu]

I'm concerned that easy content just got nerfed. There's other ways around the Embrava nerf. March & Tacticians Roll for exmaple; not as amazing and can be dispelled - but nonetheless, a healthy substitute. The few remaining tidbids of end-game don't need nerfing; that is unless you are prepared to offer end-game straight out of the gate with Adoulin (which I doubt)

[NDSI]

I'm concerned that easy content just got nerfed. There's other ways around the Embrava nerf. March & Tacticians Roll for exmaple; not as amazing and can be dispelled - but nonetheless, a healthy substitute.

It requires 2 jobs to the the job of 1, seeing as the 4DD + 2 SCH, that makes 1 SCH, that might be changed to RDM or WHM, a BRD for march, a COR for tactician roll, that leaves room for 3DD, a COR can do some damage but personally not impressed by it, due to gun being a slow weapon, with embrava people can spread out and find and kill: all, single, Leader, Family, floors but with the nerf people gonna have to stick together, due to short regen, no regain, which making it slower floors gonna take longer then 3 minutes, where you have about 2 min per floor to get a win out of it really, so unless they add extra time to Neo-Nyzul, or make it possible to start at floor 51 there is only a real slim chance to even make it to floor 80.

I am all about making the game more balanced and people experiment with NNI to broaden the job choices for it, but atm i just don't think it will be possible.

[SpankWustler]

I really hope the "special weaknesses" in Legion are things like the Naraka being made weaker to blunt damage rather than some sort of proc system. Not really a matter of easier or harder, I just like how Legion is a very straightforward combat event where success depends on mechanics universal to the whole of FFXI rather than a mechanic specific to Legion.


Attack/Defense Ratio Adjustments
This is in regards to the post I made previously about future battle system adjustments.
We will be making adjustments based on the content described under the "Regarding Defense" header. After the adjustment, in the case that a player's defense is significantly lower compared to a monster’s attack power, the amount of damage received will be higher than what it is currently.

Example:

For the below values:
Monster attack damage value = 100
Monster attack power = 1000
Your defense = 250

The damage received will be as follows:
Pre-adjustment amount of damage received = 200
Post-adjustment amount of damage received = 400
*This is just a simple calculation to make it easy to illustrate the change.

To go along with the above, the below two adjustments will also be made:

The maximum value for damage dealt from the attack defense ratio will be adjusted so they are identical for both single-handed weapons and two-handed weapons.
The defense reduction penalty for "Counterstance" will be reduced.


I notice that no changes to Monster-Vs-Player level correction are mentioned here. Is something like that incoming and just not announced yet? Have plans changed in regard to it? Is a change to level correction coming later after seeing how things work with the new attack/defense calculations?

With just the change to attack/defense coming to pass and level correction left as-is, I worry that physical TP moves from high-level high-attack monsters are going to hit like the moon dropping from orbit onto my tenderest of bits.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Attack/Defense Ratio: "We can't just mindlessly ride berserk every time the timer is up now"- that's the point. There's no strategy involved if what the players are facing is "Our defense is so low berserk has no downsides anyway".

If there needed to be a down side, there'd still be a down side to Restraint.

[Detzu]

Time to /toss Twilight Scythe, inv +1 and good job Square Enix for making it useless.

[Kincard]

If there needed to be a down side, there'd still be a down side to Restraint.

It does have a downside- the movement speed down. I know you're going to argue that the movement speed down doesn't matter in application but the point is that you actually get the debuff and its noticeable enough so that it's less useful in events where you need to move around a lot more (NNI for instance). Berserk was always supposed to have a downside of making you take more damage but the fact is that in application you never actually notice it because players have such low defense as a standard. Making it so that the defense actually matters will make it more than just you going "oh no the number in my equipment window went down".

[Crimson_Slasher]

Count me among the list of people disapointed with the twilight scythe chance, and the embrava and perfect defense reductions. The system as it is now (With certain events offering a tag onto these abilities weakening them) was fine, but now embrava is placed into the category of inability. It took an ability which could be used to great effect, and destroyed any possibility of using it. The pace of fights has shortened a lot, its not something to ignore.

However no longer can the ability even be used in casual capacity, say an abyssea exp party where someone would want to enjoy themselves or test out its capability. We will adapt to the hurdles presented, but twilight scythe had little to no utility, and embrava was a tool used to fight a random number generator that didnt want players to succeed.

In short, twilight scythe was a flash in the pan, that has now become a no-longer desired item, and more than before, people will be discarding it unless it recieves some other utility granted to it. However the changes to embrava and perfect defense are excessive, and this is nothing short of an injustice and a mockery to the playerbase in my personal opinion. This is akin to teaching a child to ride a horse, then outlawing the ownership, sale, and purchase of horses.

If you do want to change the effects, reward those whom put effort into the abilities, make them skill related, or strongly examine, and self-test the events which they are utilized, and see if you developers, under optimal, and more realistic situations, can be completed, even semi-reliably. I strongly urge you to reconsider these changes, or again, simply tag events (similar to Salvage II) with the weaker effect abilities where you do not want them abused.

As for twilight scythe, it has become a cheap toy, a show piece, and something players will use as a hold over weapon, so as much as i had enjoyed mine, i sadly will be cramming it into the deepest corners of my storage, as the change does not warrant its use any longer.

[Demon6324236]

If there needed to be a down side, there'd still be a down side to Restraint.It does have a downside- the movement speed down. I know you're going to argue that the movement speed down doesn't matter in application but the point is that you actually get the debuff and its noticeable enough so that it's less useful in events where you need to move around a lot more (NNI for instance). Berserk was always supposed to have a downside of making you take more damage but the fact is that in application you never actually notice it because players have such low defense as a standard. Making it so that the defense actually matters will make it more than just you going "oh no the number in my equipment window went down".
Restraint (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Restraint), Enhances your weapon skill power with each normal attack you land.

Retaliation (http://www.bg-wiki.com/bg/Retaliation), Allows you to counterattack but reduces movement speed.

[Kincard]

Whoops, my bad, that's what happens when you only browse stuff.

I'm still not seeing the logic of "if this JA has no downside no JAs should have downsides". Berserk was obviously designed with you sacrificing defense for attack in mind, and now that they made it so that it actually matters people are moving to goalpost to "It should not penalize you at all"?

There are buffs that give increases with no downside (Focus, Dodge, Boost, Divine Seal, Restraint etc) and ones that penalize you in exchange for something (Yonin, Innin, Defender, Last Resort, Counterstance). If you want to argue that Berserk shouldn't actually have a penalty have some sort of reasoning behind it rather than just stating a random JA that happens to not have a downside, because that's not an argument when there's multiple JAs of both sorts.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

The thing is, Restraint originally did have a down side: a critical hit rate reduction. They deliberately removed that penalty, to the point where the ability's name doesn't even make sense any more.

If "BALANCE!!111!!" were as important to the game as you claim, they'd have at least found a new penalty to restrain Warriors by now.

And yes, there are /ja's with no down side, but note that none of the ones you listed are for WAR (except Restraint). It's clear that the original design intent for WAR was to play with trade-offs (Berserk, Defender, Aggressor), but that has apparently been abandoned.

[Demon6324236]

I am all about making the game more balanced and people experiment with NNI to broaden the job choices for it, but atm i just don't think it will be possible.DD+DD+DD+DD+BRD+SCH

BRD stays at lamp and has to know the timer on their songs, keeping track of when they will go down. The BRD must also have as much +duration gear as possible as well as 5/5 on Troubadour and Nightingale and preferably with the Emp harp as well. BRD uses double marches, if they have an Emp harp they use it for move speed songs on leader floors or spec enemy floors while DDs use Sneak/Invis, it wears when you are hit but till you engage the NM it works to speed you up.

SCH moves out and cures like in current NNI. Using Regen as it goes down keeping it on DDs, without Embrava you can use Regen V to mimic the effects but you have to keep an eye on it. SCH should also try to keep Adlo and Haste on all DDs if possible to speed up killing, as well as possibly Phalanx since it works so well in combo with PDT especially if your DDs have PDT sets for running, and a Hybrid for DDing. Embrava may not be as powerful in raw DD power as it is now, but you can still use it if you make it to 80 or 100 to zerg the boss down faster and easier.

To me it does not sound to implausible to do it that way, people just have to be more careful and pay more attention. Mainly with buff timers, the BRD most importantly must make sure they watch their songs duration so they know when Marches will go down and cast them again before they do. The SCH also has to keep an eye on MP since they will be doing more casting than before, and watching timers for their buffs as well, when the BRD buffs at the start of a floor there is a delay where everyone will be together, SCHs need to abuse that delay for their buffs as well. Overall, I think it could be done, but it will take more skill & luck to pull through, I believe floor 80 will easily become the new target for 90% of people doing it, if not everyone who does it legitimately.

[Kincard]

The thing is, Restraint originally did have a down side: a critical hit rate reduction. They deliberately removed that penalty, to the point where the ability's name doesn't even make sense any more.

If "BALANCE!!111!!" were as important to the game as you claim, they'd have at least found a new penalty to restrain Warriors by now.

And yes, there are /ja's with no down side, but note that none of the ones you listed are for WAR (except Restraint). It's clear that the original design intent for WAR was to play with trade-offs (Berserk, Defender, Aggressor), but that has apparently been abandoned.

Restraint was a pretty poorly designed ability when it was first created. The crit decrease and overall pretty small WSD+ made it so that it was basically never worth using. I guess the idea was to decrease your white damage and increase your WSD for a tradeoff between the two, but of course everyone was obsessed with Ukko's Fury so increasing WSD while lowering crit rate probably hurt it more than it helped. Personally I think it probably would've made more sense to do something like decrease attack speed, greatly increase STP and WSD.

There are other JAs for WAR with no real downsides (Warcry, Blood Rage). I guess I'm still trying to understand how you're going from "Restraint has no downsides" to "Berserk should have no downsides". Personally I think making the defense down on Berserk an actual consideration (And by extension possibly even giving Defender some use even though it's never had any use, like, ever) will be interesting for more dynamic combat. I dunno.

[ShadedOnyx]

Sorry for ranting. It's been awhile since I fully read for forums. I think that zerging mobs only as a way of winning the game has always been something that SE has tried to avoid. And that's respectable. I erked me the most was changing the twilight scythe. It just seemed kinda strange. Embrava's nerf is to be expected. But personally I don't think making mobs hit low defense players for twice as much damage is a way to make people be smart players. If you want people to use strategy in everything that they do from leveling to end game. You need to make it more feasible then speed. Burning wins out every time. It's why people did SMN burns and FC burns and RNG burns and TP burns. I loved the old exp parties. and SC's were a whole lot of fun. They are a forgotten art form because of setup time. So personally if you want people to use strategy i feel you need to make some adjustments to things like Skillchains. I mean simply put. What would happen if drop rates were increased via number of landed skillchains vs mobs?

Not substantially but like to a maximum of an additional 10%?

[saevel]

/sigh

The defense adjustment wont' change zerging, it'll only make SCH/BLM stunning a requirement at everything.

People really don't understand the reasons we use various strategies. So I'll make it clear.

#1 Rule of MMO boss's
The stronger it's attacks are, the faster you want need it dead.

The entire reason we "zerg zerg zerg" is that since Abyssea SE has created ever more ridiculous boss monsters for us to fight. They've turned the difficulty up to 11 which in turn makes us immediately use the only strategy that works against those monsters.

I'm concerned about moving forward with low man / small group friendly content that doesn't require the DD's to be packing R/M/E and blinged out builds. We don't use PLD's (and soon RNF)s to "tank" because they absolutely refuse to put out damage and get away from their 2007 era mentality. The purpose of a tank is NOT to reduce damage to themselves, it's to keep hate off the back line folks. Front line melee's are expected to be capable of taking a few hits every now and then, tanks were never supposed to keep the NM off the DDs 25/7.

[Byrth]

A few questions:
1) Will the change to Last Resort be implemented this update?

2) When you say "The maximum value for damage dealt from the attack defense ratio will be adjusted so they are identical for both single-handed weapons and two-handed weapons." are you referring to both hands?

3) Will the new SP2 abilities be implemented this update?

[Teiei]

Originally the plan was as follows:


Regarding Defense

This is a topic that we have received feedback on asking to increase the boons of defense. Due to the attack/defense ratio, the meaning behind adding defense past a certain value starts to become pointless, and we would like to make it have meaning.

As a merit, for example, the more you increase your defense, the lower the damage taken will be and the boons for Defender would become large.
On the other hand, while under the effects of abilities that decrease defense such as Berserk or Last Resort, the damage you take would become higher than what it is currently.

Now the plan is:


This is in regards to the post I made previously about future battle system adjustments.
We will be making adjustments based on the content described under the "Regarding Defense" header. After the adjustment, in the case that a player's defense is significantly lower compared to a monster’s attack power, the amount of damage received will be higher than what it is currently.

Example:

For the below values:
Monster attack damage value = 100
Monster attack power = 1000
Your defense = 250

The damage received will be as follows:
Pre-adjustment amount of damage received = 200
Post-adjustment amount of damage received = 400
*This is just a simple calculation to make it easy to illustrate the change.

To go along with the above, the below two adjustments will also be made:

The maximum value for damage dealt from the attack defense ratio will be adjusted so they are identical for both single-handed weapons and two-handed weapons.
The defense reduction penalty for "Counterstance" will be reduced.


Which means you're doing nothing but PUNISHING US for even daring to use abilities that sacrifice defense for attack while doing NOTHING to allow us to reduce our damage taken by increasing our defense. Furthermore from the looks of things you expect us to be fine and dandy with taking vastly increased damage from anything remotely higher level. :mad:

To me at least, Seekers of Adoulin was last big chance for the dev team to actually fix SOME of the myriad problems that have accumulated (and virtually been completely ignored) since the level cap was raised to 99. It seems they continue to intend upon punishing us for winning at any sort of content.

Unless we get some clarification about this insanity, you won't be seeing me shelling out for this abusive game anymore.

[Landsoul]

Break out the tavnazian tacos.

[Monchat]

or rabbit pies.

[Oddwaffle]

My question is "Will I die instantly using counterstance on Monk (or pretty much every /Mnk)?" Monk is currently a very effective tank in low man events using counterstance. It's not optimum and you can't really have any other healer but Whm. Still it gives variety to the monotony of Ninja and Paladin Tanks or just DD spamming WS.

Counterstance penalty is HUGE and it ignores several of your defense buffs like Protect. Currently with counterstance, you will take around 400-800 damage per hit from a boss monster, going up to 1-1.5k on TP attacks. The damage taken is moderate on normal monsters (x3 or x4 normal damage) are offset by the countering rate but longer fights or boss fights the only cures that would be effective on Monks are Cure IV/V spamming. Any job with less than 2k HP will have a good chance of getting killed using counterstance with the current Def/Atk vs Bosses. A single critical hit or strong TP attack will most likely put the Monk into red HP. If the Whm is busy casting something else then the Monk will have a chance of getting killed right after. If this adjustment still let counterstance get a defense penalty of anywhere near 50% (and ignores buffs like Protects, food buffs) then it will be a very useless ability that can not be used in any situation because you will either take too much damage to be cured or just get one-shotted.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Ever notice the community reps always drop stuff like this on the players on a Friday afternoon? Or is it just me?

[MarkovChain]

My question is "Will I die instantly using counterstance on Monk (or pretty much every /Mnk)?" Monk is currently a very effective tank in low man events using counterstance. It's not optimum and you can't really have any other healer but Whm. Still it gives variety to the monotony of Ninja and Paladin Tanks or just DD spamming WS.

Counterstance penalty is HUGE and it ignores several of your defense buffs like Protect. Currently with counterstance, you will take around 400-800 damage per hit from a boss monster, going up to 1-1.5k on TP attacks. The damage taken is moderate on normal monsters (x3 or x4 normal damage) are offset by the countering rate but longer fights or boss fights the only cures that would be effective on Monks are Cure IV/V spamming. Any job with less than 2k HP will have a good chance of getting killed using counterstance with the current Def/Atk vs Bosses. A single critical hit or strong TP attack will most likely put the Monk into red HP. If the Whm is busy casting something else then the Monk will have a chance of getting killed right after. If this adjustment still let counterstance get a defense penalty of anywhere near 50% (and ignores buffs like Protects, food buffs) then it will be a very useless ability that can not be used in any situation because you will either take too much damage to be cured or just get one-shotted.

I hope they make the ajustement so that you take as much damage as currenty. However it's impossible to do so because you can't have an ability that adapts to the oponent's attack. In the end I suspect that they make it a berserk style defense down, maybe more severe. On the other hand if it gets transformed into a defense penaly it's not too bad because protect/defender/food will help it.

We cannot really comment yet but they seem to know what they are doing, and they said they'll reduce the def penalty so we can only hope it will do something. As such, you can expect at least 400+ defense otherwise in their exemple you will still take double damage.

If we assume that CC will get you the same damage taken as currently with their exemple though, they should give it 500 def... Maybe they have ways to cap ratio at 2 for CC. But if that's the case it would make CC+berserk game breaking.

Anyway, this little change to ratio is going to change our way of playing, so instead of dia2 and berserk, players might choose to go for rabbit pies and bio 2. This change could make monk tanking with defender and pdt more efficient than other tank especially with capped counter gear.

[Prophett]

Personally for me I take the "if it's not broke, don't fix it standpoint." Twilight Scythe not broke leave it be, 2hd vs. 1hd Not broke leave it be, Embrava not broke leave it be, PD not broke leave it be. What is the point in changing everything around now after 10 years, SE designed these as they are now, players use these in the way they were originally designed, simply put leave it alone.

I think SE needs to work on COSTS and DROP Rates over stats, abilities, weapons etc.... Make things less time consuming for a BUSY world where there are a lot less extreme player and a whole lot more casual players. Make gear that will last not get phased out every update.

And please fix the damn Inventory issue <---- this should be #1 on the list lol :P

[Oddwaffle]

I'm not too sure about defender and PDT becoming more popular in low man content.

Firstly, war is actually better at PDT and defender tanking. Pretty much any jobs subbing war can do that. If the change is made so that pld tanking would be effective again. Will we have to wait and seek out the one and only high defense tanking job for events? Warrior is closest to pld in tanking defensively but they are even close to pld with a shield.

Secondly, if damage taken is becoming a problem, people will more likely move to ninja sub before they will consider lowering monster attack or beef up their defence. Unless ninja sub is crippled, it seems more beneficial to simply use shadow and increase damage rather moderate it. Perhaps this will open up some Sam/war seogan tanking but I highly doubt it will be any better than it is now.

This also leads to the third point, the modifications to def/atk will make abilities that increases attack like berserk, critical damage (high atk), cor and brd buffs more potent. So unless some sort of adjustment s are made to monsters also, we will see a shift to higher attack buffs rather defence.

[MarkovChain]

Sam/war "seigan" ing is fail tanking. Not only the job is bad damage, but the shadows are too random. I hope they don't want us to go back to camping the new HnMs with an alliance of BLMs and PLD tank (cos you know, they already explained RUN would suck compared to PLD).

[saevel]

I'm not too sure about defender and PDT becoming more popular in low man content.

Firstly, war is actually better at PDT and defender tanking. Pretty much any jobs subbing war can do that. If the change is made so that pld tanking would be effective again. Will we have to wait and seek out the one and only high defense tanking job for events? Warrior is closest to pld in tanking defensively but they are even close to pld with a shield.

Secondly, if damage taken is becoming a problem, people will more likely move to ninja sub before they will consider lowering monster attack or beef up their defence. Unless ninja sub is crippled, it seems more beneficial to simply use shadow and increase damage rather moderate it. Perhaps this will open up some Sam/war seogan tanking but I highly doubt it will be any better than it is now.

This also leads to the third point, the modifications to def/atk will make abilities that increases attack like berserk, critical damage (high atk), cor and brd buffs more potent. So unless some sort of adjustment s are made to monsters also, we will see a shift to higher attack buffs rather defence.

One job answers all those questions.

Blue Mage

Not only does it have a +50% defense buff, that buff doesn't reduce your attack and can be maintained permanently.
But it doesn't stop there. Blue Mage also has a +100% defense buff that it can apply once ever 5 min and lasts 90s.
And if you thought that was insane, they also have a blink buff that gives 8~10 shadows.

So instead of being forced to use defender for +25% defense and a crippling -25% attack, people will instead use /BLU for cocoon's +50% defense without any attack penalty. That is of course assuming that a defense buff is absolutely needed for a fight, if we're capable of healing through it then it's just a zerg.

[Metaking]

dont forget the roars +15% attack on one, and -10 or 15% attack for the target on the other(tho its duration is crap)

[Demon6324236]

Personally for me I take the "if it's not broke, don't fix it standpoint." Twilight Scythe not broke leave it be, 2hd vs. 1hd Not broke leave it be, Embrava not broke leave it be, PD not broke leave it be. What is the point in changing everything around now after 10 years, SE designed these as they are now, players use these in the way they were originally designed, simply put leave it alone.The game changed during those 10 years, and none of those things you said have been around 10 years. One handed and two handed DDs had a balance change before during these 10 years, even though it has been around a while it is not 10 years, and is not ok how it is. If it were ok, you would not see WAR, DRK, and SAM as the best primary DDs in most content, with MNK coming in on any content where it being counted as a one handed job does not screw it. Twilight Scythe I agree, was not and is not broken, what they are doing will make the weapon 100% worthless, taking away one of the few moderatly decent situational weapons that are not a pain to get.

PD and Embrava not broken though? Thats funny, because Embrava alone is the best buff in the game for offense by far, there is no comparison, its double marches from a BRD and an 11 on tactics roll in one with a nice Regen V on top. PD makes you god, immune to everything and take next to no damage so you can do whatever you want to throw out as much damage as fast as possible. Together they are very overpowered and a nerf is needed, one can argue they are going to far in their nerfing as they often do, I argue that myself, but to say they are fine as they are is a long shot.


I think SE needs to work on COSTS and DROP Rates over stats, abilities, weapons etc.... Make things less time consuming for a BUSY world where there are a lot less extreme player and a whole lot more casual players. Make gear that will last not get phased out every update.

And please fix the damn Inventory issue <---- this should be #1 on the list lol :PCosts are effected by the player market unless you are referring to the NPC prices in which case they have been higher recently due to the high inflation caused by Cruor-->Gil trades via Chocobo Blinkers. If the prices were lower then it could cause some problems, for instance if it were 10k for a Voidcluster, no one would care to throw 50k at a NM who they need to kill for a piece of gear, they would solo it or do it with as many as 6 people to cover some procs. That would create problems in a few ways, potentially fewer VW parties to name the most important. So far as drop rates go I whole heartedly agree, drops are so one sided its not funny, some drops are nearly dropped every fight while others are one in a thousand, which needs drastically changed.

Making gear that is not phased out every update has already been done, people use a lot of gear from Abyssea still, people use a lot of gear from VW still, people use a lot of gear from NNI, Salvage II, Odin II, Meeble Burrows, and even Neo-Limbus for some jobs. Is all of the gear still used? No, there are better pieces with each update as there should be, to give interest to the hardcore players, were there no better pieces of gear than there would be no reason to do the content for the hardcore players and as such there would be complaints, just look at Salvage, it didn't beat all of the NNI gear or most of it, there was a lot of complaints after its release.

I agree inventory should be high priority, highest on the list? Maybe, maybe not, it is quite a problem for many people and stop people from doing more events due to inventory constraints however more content should be the highest priority to a point. If there is no content to do then people get bored and quit, if there is no inventory space then people do not do the events because they have no room for the rewards they get from the content. So really they need to balance the two, it does need to be high priority though, and if necessary, they need to make a work around for the PS2, I myself would gladly cut off my ability to ever play the game on that console if it made my characters tied to my account gain +120 inventory space in all areas, totaling at 1200.

[Kincard]

Which means you're doing nothing but PUNISHING US for even daring to use abilities that sacrifice defense for attack while doing NOTHING to allow us to reduce our damage taken by increasing our defense. Furthermore from the looks of things you expect us to be fine and dandy with taking vastly increased damage from anything remotely higher level.

What? No. Them increasing the ratio cap means that increasing our defense is still going to have an effect, the problem before was that our defense typically got so low that it didn't matter if we used defense buffs or not.

EX: Enemy has 1000 attack
Ratio cap of 2.0: Enemies cap their attack on you at 500 defense. Since most DDs have sub-500 defense without any buffs, people just decided to put up attack buffs whenever they wanted. Defensive buffs don't push you far enough above 500 for it to be worth using.
Ratio cap of 4.0: Enemies cap thier attack on you at 250 defense. If you have, say, 400 defense, then berserking would actually pose a danger, and every point defense from, say, Defender would actually have an effect.





The defense adjustment wont' change zerging, it'll only make SCH/BLM stunning a requirement at everything.

There remains more to be done to fix tanking, of course, but if the change forces people to actually think twice about berserking then it has done its job. Ultimately with just these changes people who are playing smartly will still do offensive buff zergs for themselves out the wazoo, but that's sort of the point? "Smartly" is the operative word here.


Ever notice the community reps always drop stuff like this on the players on a Friday afternoon? Or is it just me?

They like to save bigger announcements for the end of the week, as far as I can tell. Give it time to be discussed over the weekend? Dunno.

[Raksha]

Ever notice the community reps always drop stuff like this on the players on a Friday afternoon? Or is it just me?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Take_out_the_Trash_Day
http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/washington/2009-12-01-white-house-trash-day-announcements_N.htm

[Scuro]

I laugh cuz everybody that is supporting this 2hr adjustment for SCH is like "Ermahgerd over powered Embravas!" and now they think that they're going to get into these parties with shit jobs and get to 100 Fl and get uber items. Ya.... no... it's even more so now enforced "Cookie Cutter" jobs and now it's made FL 100 damn near impossible. "We're going to adjust the mob levels for most level ranges of Nyzul" ya thats great!.... If nyzul didn't have f*cking lamp floors or other things that take time. The problem isn't the killing of mobs on Kill all Floors, the problem is completing a floor and getting anywhere from 1-10 floors when the range needs to be adjusted more so to enforce a higher rate of climb per floor. If you're not at the top by the first few floors, you're not going to win, doesn't matter. Thanks SE for making 100 impossible, thanks for making Thaumus gear and Phorcys unobtainable, and thanks for being over all ignorant about a game system that was flawless. If you're going to make us have to climb the damn floors, make it so you can save at 60, or save every 30 floors, or be only able to save once, grab another tag and pick up at that point and if you don't get to 100 you lose that "saved game". Make it so the content is challenging, not impossible...

[Demon6324236]

I laugh cuz everybody that is supporting this 2hr adjustment for SCH is like "Ermahgerd over powered Embravas!" and now they think that they're going to get into these parties with shit jobs and get to 100 Fl and get uber items. Ya.... no... it's even more so now enforced "Cookie Cutter" jobs and now it's made FL 100 damn near impossible. "We're going to adjust the mob levels for most level ranges of Nyzul" ya thats great!.... If nyzul didn't have f*cking lamp floors or other things that take time. The problem isn't the killing of mobs on Kill all Floors, the problem is completing a floor and getting anywhere from 1-10 floors when the range needs to be adjusted more so to enforce a higher rate of climb per floor. If you're not at the top by the first few floors, you're not going to win, doesn't matter. Thanks SE for making 100 impossible, thanks for making Thaumus gear and Phorcys unobtainable, and thanks for being over all ignorant about a game system that was flawless. If you're going to make us have to climb the damn floors, make it so you can save at 60, or save every 30 floors, or be only able to save once, grab another tag and pick up at that point and if you don't get to 100 you lose that "saved game". Make it so the content is challenging, not impossible...Wow, if a single event is the only time that the ability is not broken, then perhaps the ability is broken, and the event is as well. In NNI's case, thats what is going on, NNI is broken, and so is Embrava, a single event does not make it balanced by any means. People are not ignorant and think that NNI will be easily winnable, no one said that at all, rather people think its an improvement overall. You know whats awesome about it though? People never stop to think about if no one could win NNI at all. If no one could win NNI, it would probably be adjusted, but people do win, people have always won, and for that reason SE never really needed to change it because it was actually beatable. Legion is the same, people actually do beat it, if people never beat it, perhaps they would have looked into it a bit more.

Content which is unwinable gets much more attention than content that is being completed by players, maybe once this change goes through and people can not complete these events hardly at all if ever, then SE will adjust them more, enough to actually be winnable at a fair rate without relying on cheats, exploits, overpowered abilities, or pure luck.

As for your flawless comment, that is funny enough it made me genuinely laugh, which is rare, thank you for that. However, I have to say it is misguided and incorrect on many levels. While people may take my words the wrong way, I believe Embrava and PD were somewhat bottlenecking SE into making mobs that were overpowered because without making mobs so strong we had to have Embrava/PD to win, it would have been much to easy with them, however if we have to have them to win, its always hard, and in some cases nearly impossible.

[Concerned4FFxi]

I am honestly more concerned about the adjustment towards monster's attack, let's say TP move use to do significant amount of damage 1k+ would this mean that after this update the damage would only increase further if you have melee using Berserk or DRKs in this case using Last Resort. I think this could be a rather problematic adjustment if not executed right making it for melee impossible to Berserk or Last Resort without taking to much damage which resulting being oneshotted by TP moves. If a TP move did about 1-2k before and if it only would increase further it would be impossible for melee DD to use propper buffs. Guess we'll just have to see how it turns out.

it's working just as intended...to bring sam out on top again, and again, and again. Because, they don't trade shit to be uber.

[Camiie]

Some of these changes are pretty drastic. Shouldn't they be tested on the test server before being implemented in the live worlds? Do they have to come with Adoulin or can they be put off until we're relatively sure they won't do more harm than good? I'm all for making irrelevant jobs relevant, but I wouldn't want that to come at the expense of everything or anything else.

[Cair]

Not everything has to be run through the test server (I mean, we didn't even have the test server for the longest time). The changes are pretty much entirely based on (or otherwise inline with) suggestions from the community, and Adoulin content was designed with these changes in mind. That aside, they have stated that they're unable to push out new versions within a certain time before release (I don't understand this, WOTG had two preparatory updates to make lives easier, both 3 weeks and 1 week before), and I imagine that applies to the test server as well. These changes have been in development for quite some time, so I imagine they're pretty eager to actually push them out.

[Landsoul]

it's working just as intended...to bring sam out on top again, and again, and again. Because, they don't trade shit to be uber.
Are you trying to say SAM is currently a bad DD? I don't know where you have been these past years, but SAM is currently one of the best DDs with Koga or even with Empy/Relic SAM is fairly good and can imagine being even better with Last Resort update.

[Demon6324236]

Its not that SAM is bad, its that SAM is not the best, which this will probably change since they have native defensive options for themselves as well as no defense penalties for their offensive abilities I believe.

[Teiei]

Enmity Adjustments
In regards to enmity, we will be performing the first stage of the content that was discussed previously. To start out, we will be making adjustments so that if the target is level 51 or above, the enmity generated in proportion to the damage dealt, and the enmity incurred in relation to the amount of HP cured, will be reduced. In the case that the target is above level 99, the amount of enmity generated will be reduced to 30% compared to before adjustment (the current level). We are also making adjustments at the same time so that the enmity gains from Cure V are reduced.

While this isn't limited to enmity adjustments, we understand this is an element that we need to continuously follow and address, and I wanted to remind you that this would be the first step.

I think I understand what they're attempting to accomplish with this adjustment.

However, in order to truly be effective I can see at least two additional things that need to be changed.

First, they need to increase the enmity lost by players when taking damage. And second, they need to adjust the abilities and spells tanks use to gain enmity.

The idea is that since tanks should be taking less damage from monsters than everyone else, they should be able to quickly grab and maintain (less damage = less enmity loss) high enmity levels throughout the fight. However, this idea has failed in that damage dealers gain enmity far faster and maintain it easier than the tanks. Reducing the enmity gain from damage is a good start, but if they were to also increase the amount of enmity lost when players take damage then it would be far more effective in keeping the tank the target of the enemy for most of the battle.

Picture a tank and damage dealer; the tank should ideally be capable of using various abilities and spells to immediately garner a large amount of enmity. However, the damage dealer will also gain enmity while attacking and at some point surpass the tank. The monster would then turn to attack the damage dealer and, as a result of being hit, the damage dealer loses enmity and drops below the levels of the tank. Once safely below the tank's enmity the damage dealer can continue to attack and slowly rebuild enmity till the cycle repeats.

Increasing enmity loss from taking damage would help immensely in making this idea work out.

Finally tanks need a way to gain that initial enmity spike that is greater than a damage dealer's attacks. If they made enmity gain abilities scaled with level then it could be a nice solution to this problem.

I also know that Trick Attack might be an alternative to the tank's initial problem with spike enmity. However, if they're reducing enmity gain through damage then Trick Attack's enmity will also be lowered.

[Camiie]

Not everything has to be run through the test server (I mean, we didn't even have the test server for the longest time).

True, but these aren't just any changes. These are ones they (and we) need to be sure they're implementing properly. If anything should be tested thoroughly it should be these.


The changes are pretty much entirely based on (or otherwise inline with) suggestions from the community

But not necessarily carried out in ways we asked for or expected.


and Adoulin content was designed with these changes in mind. That aside, they have stated that they're unable to push out new versions within a certain time before release (I don't understand this, WOTG had two preparatory updates to make lives easier, both 3 weeks and 1 week before), and I imagine that applies to the test server as well. These changes have been in development for quite some time, so I imagine they're pretty eager to actually push them out.

No developer can or will test things the way their users can. I think SE has proven this as much or more than anyone. They've often shown a lack of understanding of how we do things and why we do them the way we do. Sorry if I seem insulting, but I just don't trust them not to screw it up.

[Yinnyth]

I think I understand what they're attempting to accomplish with this adjustment.

However, in order to truly be effective I can see at least two additional things that need to be changed.

First, they need to increase the enmity lost by players when taking damage. And second, they need to adjust the abilities and spells tanks use to gain enmity.

The idea is that since tanks should be taking less damage from monsters than everyone else, they should be able to quickly grab and maintain (less damage = less enmity loss) high enmity levels throughout the fight.

Tanks should be the guys who are at the greatest risk of taking damage. It's their entire job to do whatever it takes to make sure everyone else in the group doesn't take damage, and they usually achieve that by taking the damage themselves. I think this change would be better achieved through more accessable equipment and abilities which increase enmity decay, not a complete increase across the board.

Also, these enmity adjustments are just a first step. They intend to make other changes as well. Probably not the changes anyone is specifically suggesting, but their overall goal is the same as ours.

[saevel]

Its not that SAM is bad, its that SAM is not the best, which this will probably change since they have native defensive options for themselves as well as no defense penalties for their offensive abilities I believe.

SE has been incredibly careful with SAM lately. Whatever buff they give them they can never take away. Samurai, as a job, is kind of fan service from SE to their Japanese player base. Nerfing it or otherwise taking something from it would be met with an extremely hostile reaction from the JP community. Many of the complains over there are about WAR's and DRK's being chose as DD jobs over SAMs which is a big no-no for them.

[Demon6324236]

Sorry if I seem insulting, but I just don't trust them not to screw it up.After their history, you have every reason to be cautious.

[Scuro]

Wow, if a single event is the only time that the ability is not broken, then perhaps the ability is broken, and the event is as well. In NNI's case, thats what is going on, NNI is broken, and so is Embrava, a single event does not make it balanced by any means. People are not ignorant and think that NNI will be easily winnable, no one said that at all, rather people think its an improvement overall. You know whats awesome about it though? People never stop to think about if no one could win NNI at all. If no one could win NNI, it would probably be adjusted, but people do win, people have always won, and for that reason SE never really needed to change it because it was actually beatable. Legion is the same, people actually do beat it, if people never beat it, perhaps they would have looked into it a bit more.

Content which is unwinable gets much more attention than content that is being completed by players, maybe once this change goes through and people can not complete these events hardly at all if ever, then SE will adjust them more, enough to actually be winnable at a fair rate without relying on cheats, exploits, overpowered abilities, or pure luck.

As for your flawless comment, that is funny enough it made me genuinely laugh, which is rare, thank you for that. However, I have to say it is misguided and incorrect on many levels. While people may take my words the wrong way, I believe Embrava and PD were somewhat bottlenecking SE into making mobs that were overpowered because without making mobs so strong we had to have Embrava/PD to win, it would have been much to easy with them, however if we have to have them to win, its always hard, and in some cases nearly impossible.

For starters when I stated a "Flawless game type" i was not refering to NNI, I'm talking about Nyzul its self, the old school event. That's where it was at, yes the game type was hard and yes it needed adjustments so that you could get to 100 which they did. Yet they made it challening enough for everyone to want to do it, yet not so damn hard you couldn't win. Thats what makes a good game, making it challenging enough to where you dont' just blow through the event, you get there through hard work and perseverence. Not some band wagon shmuck SAM going in there and wasting it, but that it actually takes your head to win it. NNI in its current form does not take skill to win, that I will agree with, it takes luck. Which is mostly what my rant is about, by removing embrava you've eliminated the slight edge players have of winning. I can tell you right now Embrava doesn't break NNI in the player's favor, you can still just as easily get f*cked by lamp floors or by having consistent 2-5 floor climbs that will ruin a run. What I'm saying is if you're going to take our edge to winning this game type, then you need to adjust the game in its self. Give players a time extension of maybe 40-50 (Over all time) minutes instead of just the 30 if you want us to climb all 100 floors. With the adjustments now, you are going to have most groups just hoping to get to 80 and only dreaming of 100 floor.

[Demon6324236]

While that may be how you meant your post, the way it came across was that you were saying Embrava is perfectly fine and balanced as it is. The entire basis of my post was based on the idea that you were saying they should not adjust Embrava, and instead should leave it as it is. I am sorry if I misunderstood, but your post seemed fairly misleading.

[Horadrim]

This is nice start with the enmity. Now give PLD a subbable job trat(like lvl 49) that increases the enmity gained per damaging action back to its original value. That way RUN/PLD would be very viable, as long as RUN gets its own provoke type action.

I want RUN/PLD and PLD/RUN to be the new tank standards.

So:

RUN needs Provoke ability for Lv. 30, and to have all Spikes by level 49 (Blaze 10, Ice 20, Shock 30, and Drain 40) -- additionally they should get a trait that increases the damage of Spikes (same levels as below)
PLD needs Enmity Bonus for lv 10 (+5% enmity), 30 (%+15), 50 (+25%), 70(+35%), and 90(+45%). (then an "Enhances" piece from Adoulin that adds +5% for 50% cap)

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I want RUN/PLD and PLD/RUN to be the new tank standards.

Heresy. Clearly the new tank standard must be RUN/DNC (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Run%E2%80%93D.M.C.)

[Fredjan]

I also don't understand why Twilight Scythe's getting an adjustment that major when there's hardly anything overpowered about it to justify such a drastic change. Thanks for making it useless, SE, mine will be tossed the instant I log in the game post-version update. No one is going to ever touch it to use an enchantment. It is now the laughing stock drop from Shinryu, easily; it's literally useless. Alas, that's what happens when the JP players complain about it. I can definitely say Murasamemaru will never be touched, cause SAM & Samurai Fantasy XI, this has always been the case and always will be. Even if it were a very common weapon, I doubt it'd ever be changed.

Could've easily changed it from:



To:



And it'd still be more useful than using a weapon for an enchantment. Death is not worth using up an inventory slot for that effect to begin with - what made me carry Twilight Scythe despite having a DMG:167 scythe was the special non-elemental damage effect, and even then, it was only handy for certain things.

As a SCH, I agree Embrava's overpowered as it is, but I don't agree with the massive nerf of the duration OR the Regain changed to Refresh, and I say that as a career mage. People are going to continue using scholars, but in events where Stun is almost mandatory, that's all they're going to be used for. Nobody honestly cares about Scholar's ability to check enmity at least for now, just to abuse Stuns and heal in certain events with nuking as a side goal regardless (ie: Uncharted, Salvage). I can definitely rest easy knowing I don't have to worry about 500 enhancing skill anymore though. I never reached it, but I did waste several million gil on genbu scraps all to no avail, but alas, that's the R.N.G. system at its finest. That's not an attempt to complain, that's just the nature of the system.

The only enhancing spell worth even building that for on Scholar was Embrava, and with that essentially gone (everyone I've talked to doesn't feel it's worth using with such a massively nerfed duration, not even past 4 minutes with Perpetuance; but I could see people using it for certain enemies), 500+ enhancing is only really useful to White Mages and Red Mages, both which can obtain 500+ without that (plus WHM has Beneficus).

As far as the adjustments to attack/defense go, it'll be interesting to see how it plays out. If anything, it'll encourage me to use my Apocalypse more than my Ragnarok since Resolution is incredibly attack hungry. In my point of view, Berserk/Last Resort should have a risk to them and it'll be interesting to see how it plays out in reality. I honestly view it as an indirect Resolution nerf, but that's just me, given how much attack it has to have.

Other than all of that, I do approve of the changes incoming, because it does have potential. That's my two gil on the matter.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Greetings everyone!....
Attack/Defense Ratio Adjustments
This is in regards to the post I made previously about future battle system adjustments (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29831-Overall-Battle-System-Adjustments-for-the-Future?p=392863&viewfull=1#post392863).
We will be making adjustments based on the content described under the "Regarding Defense" header. After the adjustment, in the case that a player's defense is significantly lower compared to a monster’s attack power, the amount of damage received will be higher than what it is currently.

Example:

For the below values:
Monster attack damage value = 100
Monster attack power = 1000
Your defense = 250

The damage received will be as follows:
Pre-adjustment amount of damage received = 200
Post-adjustment amount of damage received = 400
---
Dam... I mean, I understand the idea, I'm not opposed to it. But, 100% increase, nobody plays this game and if changes like this keep rolling in nobody's gonna play.

Berserker is 25% increase attack, decrease defense. That's one of warrior's top job ability. When I use berserker I notice the damage taken difference.

To have a 100% increase in damage is absolutely overkill! Change this to 25-50%, max. My goodness, you are incredible Devs...

Conclusion: 25% is very noticeable. If you play game, you too, would understand. 100%, is utterly stupid, shows no understanding of game play. With just 25% increase in damage taken, people will care about their defense. At 100%, there just won't be any kind of game play to care about.

[Concerned4FFxi]

I would have prefered 3tic regain/3 refresh. Cor roll can get 3tic regain, so I don't see the problem there. Also, i understood that smn and sch at the time had uber 2hrs, but instead of watering down the two best 2hrs and giving everyone a 1hr, i would have prefered an increase to less sparkly other 2hrs and keep the 2hrs as 2hrs.

After all, I rather a 2hr that is useful, than 2 one hour job abilities that are meh.

[ManaKing]

The change to enmity is probably the most important, broad scale adjustment that they have done in a long time. I'm looking forward to it and the rest of this update. People complained enough that the game was stagnant and boring and that things were obviously over powered. At least they listened to suggestions for once.

If nothing else, it will probably shake things up. It's just funny to see how much some of you are kicking and screaming at the possibility of change.

[Washburn]

Will the attack / defense ratio work the same way that monsters do damage to players also?

How will this affect Ranged Attack damage since a ranger's actual attack value reads low, and ranged attack is not shown?

[Demon6324236]

I would have prefered 3tic regain/3 refresh. Cor roll can get 3tic regain, so I don't see the problem there. Also, i understood that smn and sch at the time had uber 2hrs, but instead of watering down the two best 2hrs and giving everyone a 1hr, i would have prefered an increase to less sparkly other 2hrs and keep the 2hrs as 2hrs.

After all, I rather a 2hr that is useful, than 2 one hour job abilities that are meh.Two hours are not two hours anyways. Two hours are really just "once an event" abilities, we have many different ways to reset them prematurely that we never really wait the two hours if we actually need it again before hand. Take for example, parties for NNI, they use CORs for their 2hour via either shouts or DDs changing jobs, if thats not available, they use MMM or Revits from Besieged or Abyssea. People in Dyna doing ADL use CORs, people in Prov use CORs in the event of a wipe. These are things people do to avoid that problem and circumvent it.

[Kincard]

SE has been incredibly careful with SAM lately. Whatever buff they give them they can never take away. Samurai, as a job, is kind of fan service from SE to their Japanese player base. Nerfing it or otherwise taking something from it would be met with an extremely hostile reaction from the JP community. Many of the complains over there are about WAR's and DRK's being chose as DD jobs over SAMs which is a big no-no for them.

Do you actually have a source for this or are you just making some sort of wild assumption, because Ninja being a utterly crap-tier job would contradict the only conceivable reason I can see to believe this is the case.

The playerbase has aways exaggerated how powerful SAM is and that hasn't changed in years. I don't see anything here that's going to push SAM far beyond the other jobs that are DPSing just fine.


To have a 100% increase in damage is absolutely overkill! Change this to 25-50%, max. My goodness, you are incredible Devs...
...
100%, is utterly stupid, shows no understanding of game play. With just 25% increase in damage taken, people will care about their defense. At 100%, there just won't be any kind of game play to care about.

Accusations of them not knowing how the game works isn't going to be treated with any credibility if you post in a way that makes it seem like you don't understand how ratio works. This isn't a "you will always take 100% more damage from here on" adjustment.

[Camate]

Greetings everyone!

I’d like to follow-up on a couple of questions in regards to the adjustments that are scheduled to take place during the March 27th version update.



I notice that no changes to Monster-Vs-Player level correction are mentioned here. Is something like that incoming and just not announced yet? Have plans changed in regard to it? Is a change to level correction coming later after seeing how things work with the new attack/defense calculations?


In case there was any question or confusion, we will be performing the level correction adjustments we mentioned previously (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29831-Overall-Battle-System-Adjustments-for-the-Future?p=395968&viewfull=1#post395968). And going forward, enemies that appear in Seekers of Adoulin will not have level correction effects placed on them.



Camate, can we get clarification on whether or not the attack ratio adjustments for one-handed weapons will apply to Hand-to-hand or not?

Previously we mentioned that we felt it would be best to adjust hand-to-hand weapons as a separate category, but this was specifically in relation to stat modifiers, and not for adjustments to the attack/defense ratio. For the attack/defense ratio maximum damage value, hand-to-hand weapons will receive the same adjustments as other single-handed weapons. With this, the amount of damage dealt via single-handed weapons and hand-to-hand weapons will see an increase.



Where is the Elemental Magic update?


In regards to the magic adjustments that were mentioned previously, once Seekers of Adoulin has been released and some time has passed we will be announcing the specifics on this. In the future we will be putting this data onto the Test Server for you all to try out and give feedback.




You are including the nearly useless Cure VI in the enmity reduction right? Right? (For the MP cost I almost expect Cure VI to reduce enmity...)


There will be no changes to Cure VI. With the upcoming enmity adjustments, the use of Cure V would become somewhat poor, so we will only be making adjustments to Cure V, and would like to keep the amount of HP recovered and enmity generated for Cure VI as it is currently.

[Babekeke]

We are also making adjustments at the same time so that the enmity gains from Cure V are reduced.


There will be no changes to Cure VI. With the upcoming enmity adjustments, the use of Cure V would become somewhat poor, so we will only be making adjustments to Cure V, and would like to keep the amount of HP recovered and enmity generated for Cure VI as it is currently.

Could you please double-clarify this point... upon initially reading your first statement I understood 'enmity gains' to be gains in enmity, so with that being reduced, even less enmity would be attained through using cure V; however, your second response doesn't make sense from that so are we to understand that by 'enmity gains' you meant the enmity benefits that cure V has. Therefore the adjustment will mean that Cure V will generate more enmity?

[SpankWustler]

Generally:
http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_libtgoAspu1qbcu5qo1_400.jpg


In case there was any question or confusion, we will be performing the level correction adjustments we mentioned previously (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29831-Overall-Battle-System-Adjustments-for-the-Future?p=395968&viewfull=1#post395968). And going forward, enemies that appear in Seekers of Adoulin will not have level correction effects placed on them.

Hopefully people will stop being terrified of the defense changes after reading this, since it's confirmed that the benefits for high defense will be increased along with the penalties for low defense.


There will be no changes to Cure VI. With the upcoming enmity adjustments, the use of Cure V would become somewhat poor, so we will only be making adjustments to Cure V, and would like to keep the amount of HP recovered and enmity generated for Cure VI as it is currently.

Learning that Cure VI will remain awful is a lot like somebody puking on the mountain of poop I'm saving for a special occasion; it's off-putting but I find it hard to be surprised or bothered by such a turn of events.

[Demon6324236]

So, it sounds like we will not be destroyed so easily by high level mobs, now can we see some balancing changes to the overwhelming amount of status ailments we are plagued by due to newer mobs like Gallu who inflict many various and deadly ones within a small amount of time, or with a single attack?

[FrankReynolds]

So, it sounds like we will not be destroyed so easily by high level mobs, now can we see some balancing changes to the overwhelming amount of status ailments we are plagued by due to newer mobs like Gallu who inflict many various and deadly ones within a small amount of time, or with a single attack?


I predict all new monsters who's regular attacks are all considered magic damage in order to facilitate the use of the newly released jobs. These monsters will of course spam AOE death and amnesia when they aren't raping you with aoe magic and magic based normal attacks.

[saevel]

So, it sounds like we will not be destroyed so easily by high level mobs, now can we see some balancing changes to the overwhelming amount of status ailments we are plagued by due to newer mobs like Gallu who inflict many various and deadly ones within a small amount of time, or with a single attack?

I don't think so. Look very carefully how they phrased it.


And going forward, enemies that appear in Seekers of Adoulin will not have level correction effects placed on them.

The LCF removal looks to only effect SoA not current content. This means all current high NM's will just destroy everyone. NOT GOOD.

[Kincard]

I hope the dev team reconsiders adjusting Cure VI. Even before the patch it was already not a particularly useful spell outside Abyssea (Bad MP efficiency, HP usually doesn't drop that low). With the enmity staying the same it'll lose one of the only reasons to use it (Cure V still on cooldown and need a big cure).

[Demon6324236]

I don't think so. Look very carefully how they phrased it.



The LCF removal looks to only effect SoA not current content. This means all current high NM's will just destroy everyone. NOT GOOD.We disagree, the way I read it is that they are going through with the change, and it will also effect SoA, so people do not think it may be exempt since it is new content, and may be left with LCF for 'balance' or 'challange' reasons until a later date where they choose to 'dumb it down'.

[Babekeke]

I don't think so. Look very carefully how they phrased it.



The LCF removal looks to only effect SoA not current content. This means all current high NM's will just destroy everyone. NOT GOOD.

For current mobs, LCF is removed for their att only, it is still applied to their def. For SOA mobs, LCF is completely removed and they have obviously factored in some other means of making them harder.

[hideka]

Greetings everyone!

I’d like to follow-up on a couple of questions in regards to the adjustments that are scheduled to take place during the March 27th version update.



In case there was any question or confusion, we will be performing the level correction adjustments we mentioned previously (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29831-Overall-Battle-System-Adjustments-for-the-Future?p=395968&viewfull=1#post395968). And going forward, enemies that appear in Seekers of Adoulin will not have level correction effects placed on them.



Previously we mentioned that we felt it would be best to adjust hand-to-hand weapons as a separate category, but this was specifically in relation to stat modifiers, and not for adjustments to the attack/defense ratio. For the attack/defense ratio maximum damage value, hand-to-hand weapons will receive the same adjustments as other single-handed weapons. With this, the amount of damage dealt via single-handed weapons and hand-to-hand weapons will see an increase.



In regards to the magic adjustments that were mentioned previously, once Seekers of Adoulin has been released and some time has passed we will be announcing the specifics on this. In the future we will be putting this data onto the Test Server for you all to try out and give feedback.




There will be no changes to Cure VI. With the upcoming enmity adjustments, the use of Cure V would become somewhat poor, so we will only be making adjustments to Cure V, and would like to keep the amount of HP recovered and enmity generated for Cure VI as it is currently.

i hate to be that guy.... but it has been two years since we were promised new summons...... can we get some information on this?

[Sarick]

Ok girls someone explain me why every endgame content gets ajusted except ADL ? Can we at least nerf ADL's HP ? Even legion got nerf to ridiculness. Not that it matters because noone does legion so even less will do it after the nerf, but still, ADL provides the means to get the best weapons in the game >< so people will need it ad infinitum. In other words marrows are becoming ~ 2x harder to gather.

Wasn't you the one boosting about trioing ADL and how the embrava + smn two hour was over powered? Seriously you dug your own grave don't complain.

[Sarick]

We cannot really comment yet but they seem to know what they are doing, and they said they'll reduce the def penalty so we can only hope it will do something. As such, you can expect at least 400+ defense otherwise in their exemple you will still take double damage.

If we assume that CC will get you the same damage taken as currently with their exemple though, they should give it 500 def... Maybe they have ways to cap ratio at 2 for CC. But if that's the case it would make CC+berserk game breaking.

These DEVS damage changes will probably break counterstance even if they reduced the drop in armor rating. The point of counterstance was to increase offensive output capabilities after being directly targeted from physical damage while decreasing defensive capabilities as an equal trade off. If it's as broken as I think it will be then when you put up counterstance you won't gain the benefit of enhanced offense because you'll be dead or receive to much damage from using it.

What could've been done instead:


What this might also effect are players who solo /dnc and don't upgrade their defense. Basically the effect of your dancer cures might no longer be enough to sustain you without separate backup healing if your fighting any enemy remotely higher level then you. It may push players back into the days when we needed a full party to effectively fight even match or higher level mobs.

So for players comfortable with easy mode soloing or low manning NMs they should expect to get a rude awakening when enemies become progressively stronger and require more skill then we're used to. We'll obviously need full time tanks now not monks. I tried to explain this to people inside my linkshell before this announcement but was brushed off like it'd never happen now it's already in progress.

From an optimistic standpoint at least H2H is receiving the one handed adjustments. Did they increase the output of 1 handed weapons or decrease the caps on 2 handed to equalize them? I hope it's not the latter then H2H might take a hit damage wise vs the 12.5% increase you mentioned. If that happens start seeing duel wielding warriors instead of great axes again. :confused:

[Sarick]

Picture a tank and damage dealer; the tank should ideally be capable of using various abilities and spells to immediately garner a large amount of enmity. However, the damage dealer will also gain enmity while attacking and at some point surpass the tank. The monster would then turn to attack the damage dealer and, as a result of being hit, the damage dealer loses enmity and drops below the levels of the tank. Once safely below the tank's enmity the damage dealer can continue to attack and slowly rebuild enmity till the cycle repeats.

You're forgetting that there are always more DD's then tanks. If you have a 5 to one ratio of DD vs tank. The attention of the enemy will be reduced by 1/5th or the number of active DDs. This would influence the tanks actual effectiveness.

The DD's would be cycling through the hate list before the tank had a chance to effectively tank. You see by the time the 5th dd loses hate or dies if, the 1st one was still alive they would've already gained enough hate back to get the enemies attention before the tank can take it back.

As a result the real tank wouldn't be effective and would be better replaced by another DD because the monsters attention would always cycle through everyone almost equally.

I think this sums up way the enmity system would still be broken as there are similar existent broken issues already in the game. The only true way to mitigate damage in these cases is to create an ability or modify existing abilities/spell such as "cover" or in a ninjas case AOE shadows to protect the players they're defending despite the enemies attention.

This update seems to simply delay or reduce the bouncing by at least 30%. I doubt it will be extremely effective in large groups. It might even cause issues with back line jobs taking quick hate or more bouncing hate. Eventually the back line jobs are going to cap out as well and the only effective ways to lose that hate is die, de-zone, take severe damage or do nothing as hate degrades. There are other alternatives like hate shifting/stealing but those take more detail to explain and actual skill to master.

[Sarick]

Originally the plan was as follows:




Now the plan is:





Which means you're doing nothing but PUNISHING US for even daring to use abilities that sacrifice defense for attack while doing NOTHING to allow us to reduce our damage taken by increasing our defense. Furthermore from the looks of things you expect us to be fine and dandy with taking vastly increased damage from anything remotely higher level. :mad:

To me at least, Seekers of Adoulin was last big chance for the dev team to actually fix SOME of the myriad problems that have accumulated (and virtually been completely ignored) since the level cap was raised to 99. It seems they continue to intend upon punishing us for winning at any sort of content.

Unless we get some clarification about this insanity, you won't be seeing me shelling out for this abusive game anymore.

Seems like you might have caught some flip flopping here. At first it was a promoted as a double sided edge now it's only one directional at the players disadvantage. Good catch! I see how you're comparing the first explanation with the second one.

The first announcement explained how it would improve the toughness of characters when defense was higher while maintaining an opposite balance if their defense was lower. It gave little to no explanation of what the defense penalties would be just that the effect from using them would be greater.

The second announcement just implies that the NEW defense modifications are one sided. They effect you severely if your defense is low or lowered. This means that players who utilize attack bonus abilities that reduce defense or cause defense down will take a serious beating. Likewise the improvements in defense won't create the same positive effect for them as was originally stated. There is no mention of defense bonuses in the second announcement.

In this second rendition the defense cap continues to remain the same. It allows defensive players to remain defensive with normal damage without equal opposing bonuses, while the defense penalty for offensive players becomes severe.

That was a horrible catch in the wording. I would say more but a faux-pas cease and desist letter implicates things. /sarcasim

[Monchat]

The point of counterstance was to increase offensive output capabilities after being directly targeted from physical damage while decreasing defensive capabilities as an equal trade off.

the point of counterstance is to trade a useless defense option (DEF) by a usefull one (counter). you defensive power is greatly increased and you offense hardly changes, unless say your are solo and completly naked (savage 1F).

[Sarick]

the point of counterstance is to trade a useless defense option (DEF) by a usefull one (counter). you defensive power is greatly increased and you offense hardly changes, unless say your are solo and completly naked (savage 1F).

After the update it won't be useless anymore. Evasion is nice but if your going for full offense it'd be the area to hit to increase the effectiveness. Couterstance doesn't improve defense unless your directly targeted. It does improve offense because the counters also cause damage.

Counterstances effectiveness is moot both offensively and defensively unless your face to face at close range being directly targeted. With the proposed changes the defense might be extreme. Consider the fact that the defense down effect (penalty) exist regardless of the attack being direct or not. So if the enemy is attacking you directly face to face then you can benefit from counterstance under the current setup. On the other hand if it's attacking a tank or another target you only have the defense down penlites without the benefits of counter.

With the changes listed the defense penalty won't be the same. We don't know what the change will be but considering it only gives vit bonuses now I can assume it's at least 3/4 defense reduction and severe enough to make it extremely dangerous to use. Maybe not even worth the risk. This would break it enough to the point of worthlessness in most situations. Simply put the balance of lowering a useless trait changes and this single change could break it's effectiveness.

[Oakrest]

Sam/war "seigan" ing is fail tanking. Not only the job is bad damage, but the shadows are too random. I hope they don't want us to go back to camping the new HnMs with an alliance of BLMs and PLD tank (cos you know, they already explained RUN would suck compared to PLD).

What sam/war's are you hanging around with 'bad damage'. There's also nothing random about a static timer.

[Demon6324236]

What sam/war's are you hanging around with 'bad damage'. There's also nothing random about a static timer.Its Pchan, MNK is the only good job, everything else is terrible and gimp.

[Guppie]

RUN

I think you've touched on something important here. I believe a key factor in these changes is the introduction of the upcoming expansion, including Rune Fencer and Geomancer; the two news jobs will likely possess major defensive abilities, and the changes are intended to make them more appealing.

I think we should wait and see how the new jobs (and /subjobs) work out. And in addition to the new jobs, SoA will of course also introduce new equipment, and it is possible a major theme of the new gear will be improved defense.

[Okipuit]

The other thread you mentioned raising the monster attack cap from 2.0 to 3.0, the above example is assuming a 4.0 cap.

We have always planned to raise the monster attack cap from 2.0 to 4.0.


I mentioned these because if the level based attack bonus is not removed ... high level monsters will be dealing 1000~2000+ damage per melee hit on anyone who isn't an Paladin with Burtang. I know SE is wanting to make defense more important, yet 4.0 as a cap is extremely excessive if the monster is allowed to keep it's level bonus.

Monsters that are added with Seekers of Adoulin will not have level correction applied so the damage will not be as high as you may be anticipating.

In the cases where level correction will take place in existing areas, you may see damage increases from monsters, but it will not amount to the numbers suggested. Regardless of whether there is level correction or not, we are adjusting enemies' levels and stats, so don't be afraid to attack and see that difference for yourself. Last thing, players will need to adjust their strategy and especially focus on defense. It will be important to consider decisions such as food, magic, songs, rolls, and equipment.


Camate will the developers be doing anything about the rampant use of defense down by every NM they've created? Currently all the harder NM's use some form of aoe defense down move that renders our defense useless. Even someone with Defender + Cocoon + Protect V + Taco will have no defense if something like Aegis Schism, Bilgestorm, Tourbillion, Yaksha: Damnation, Shadow Wreck, Dark Star or Flank Opening hits them. There are too many -defense moves to name and they all make defense pretty useless of a state to use.

Same as the above and I'm sure you guys are aware of the following: More focus will be required to remove applicable status ailments and also temporarily disengage the enemy to reduce the risk of potent attacks.

[Vivik]

Disengage mob, mob goes yellow, someone else claims. Good plan!

[Demon6324236]

Same as the above and I'm sure you guys are aware of the following: More focus will be required to remove applicable status ailments and also temporarily disengage the enemy to reduce the risk of potent attacks.Would it be possible to tone down the status ailments we receive right now from current enemies? I do not mean simply defense related, but some attacks are extremely unbalanced, some are more easily avoided because it involves an event like Voidwatch where we have drinks that allow us to completely evade the attack, others are not so nice.

An example of some of these attacks, Typhoean Rage, an attack used by Harpy mobs, Heavy AoE damage, silence, amnesia, encumbrance, and muddle for 60 seconds. This attack basically rips away all forms of action, no gear so you can not attack, no abilities so you can not act, no items so you may not recover, and no spells so you may not cast, on top of this it is a conal AoE which can hit multiple people in a very long range, it is capable of removing half of a party from the battle in a single move.

Another attack, Oblivion's Mantle, deals strong damage, weakness, and 10-count doom. If you were not in a panic enough about removing doom from all of the effected people who were in range of this widespread AoE attack, you are also hit with a ton of damage as well as weakness which is sure to lower your HP to a level where a single attack from one of these Gallu is enough to defeat you. Were these ailments single target they would still be highly effective, if conal, they would be even worse, but it is an AoE attack that hits everyone within 20 yalms, and because there is no way to remove weakness besides waiting it out, even if you manage to remove everyones Doom the weakness is likely to end up giving you the same result in the end.

The point I am trying to make with this post is that there are some attacks which throw so many debuffs at us that we can not hope to counteract them effectively no matter our efforts. Some completely lock you down, others flat out kill you, and unless these types of attacks are changed we will still have little defense. People currently rely on Perfect Defense for many fights, the reason is due to the high damage, this much is true, but even if we had the enemy doing only 200s rather than 1000s it would make little difference when with a single special attack a monster can turn a party into a graveyard because of overwhelming ailments that sap their life away in a matter of seconds. I completely understand the idea of holding back and not flat out fully attacking a monster, but when attacks like these are around it is hard to put up a real defense without stopping literally all offense, and with time limits places on some events like Meeble Burrows it seems as though an all out assault is sometimes the only option in order to win in time.

[Demon6324236]

Disengage mob, mob goes yellow, someone else calims. Good plan!Perhaps have a PLD actually tanking a mob, where everyone could disengage except the tank so the mob stays claimed and everyone but a single member can stay at a safe distance, just a crazy idea.

[saevel]

Thanks for your reply Okipuit. As a longtime player it's been my experience that when faced with an opponent that can do large amounts of damage and use debilitating aoe moves at machine gun speed, they will resort to simply killing it faster. The less time the opponent is alive the less time it has to kill everyone present with overpowered aoe moves. I believe Matsui mentioned that they were a little overzealous when they created many of the opponents / content we face now.

I say this because I feel the changes present won't actually result in any different strategy's. Rather just more of us enhancing a handful of melee's with songs / rolls / spells and sending them at the opponent while having a White Mage case Curaga III / IV and a SCH/BLM or two cycling stun's.

The rule of thumb is, the harder a monster hits or the more aoe moves it has, the faster we must kill it. If left alive too long they simply start killing everyone and the whole fight falls apart.

[Vivik]

Perhaps have a PLD actually tanking a mob, where everyone could disengage except the tank so the mob stays claimed and everyone but a single member can stay at a safe distance, just a crazy idea.

So we revert the game back to 2006 style of playing? Let us solo and low man shit for 3 years and then you're gonna go back to the old school style of play? Thanks but no thanks. I love to reminisce about the old days but that does not mean I want to go back to it.

Thiefs get your SATA ready!....

[Cair]

temporarily disengage the enemy


http://www.kiddnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/sweetb.jpg

[HimuraKenshyn]

Ain't Nobody got Time for That...................................................

[Demon6324236]

So we revert the game back to 2006 style of playing? Let us solo and low man shit for 3 years and then you're gonna go back to the old school style of play. Thanks but no thanks. I love to reminisce about the old days but that does not mean I want to go back to it.There is a difference between what you said and what I am saying. I am not saying go back to how the game was 5 years ago, I am saying change your strategy to where its not just a never ending zerg against enemies. Right now no one can dispute the fact that 90% of content relates to killing whatever it is you are fighting in the least amount of time, because of this there is little real strategy involved, no tanking, and no coordinated teamwork. If this update changes things as much as it sounds like it might, then this will flip, we will not be mindlessly zerging things, they will stomp us down, we will need more defensive measures, for instance, a PLD tanking the mob, defense on gear not being pointless, more PDT/MDT/Haste Hybrid sets. Right now we are to offensive centric in how we play this game, everything is more damage, thats all people gear for, its all people want to do, this sounds as though it will make defense actually part of the game again, which is in my opinion a good thing. If you cant stand the idea of actually backing off of the mob once in a while, then I don't know what to tell you, Final Fantasy has always involved a level of strategy, which this game had more than any other at a time, and now lacks massively, this sounds as though it may bring some of that back.

[NDSI]

Perhaps have a PLD actually tanking a mob, where everyone could disengage except the tank so the mob stays claimed and everyone but a single member can stay at a safe distance, just a crazy idea.

and then there are the people who try to disengage and call for help by accident~

[Vivik]

There is a difference between what you said and what I am saying. I am not saying go back to how the game was 5 years ago, I am saying change your strategy to where its not just a never ending zerg against enemies. Right now no one can dispute the fact that 90% of content relates to killing whatever it is you are fighting in the least amount of time, because of this there is little real strategy involved, no tanking, and no coordinated teamwork. If this update changes things as much as it sounds like it might, then this will flip, we will not be mindlessly zerging things, they will stomp us down, we will need more defensive measures, for instance, a PLD tanking the mob, defense on gear not being pointless, more PDT/MDT/Haste Hybrid sets. Right now we are to offensive centric in how we play this game, everything is more damage, thats all people gear for, its all people want to do, this sounds as though it will make defense actually part of the game again, which is in my opinion a good thing. If you cant stand the idea of actually backing off of the mob once in a while, then I don't know what to tell you, Final Fantasy has always involved a level of strategy, which this game had more than any other at a time, and now lacks massively, this sounds as though it may bring some of that back.

Actually PLD was my first job to 75. I know exactly what it takes to manage hate in a large fight. I'm just saying and are willing to bet that 90% of the people still playing today are not gonna go for it. I can see it now "Yeah guys I know you have Ukons and Rags but just turn so the tank can get hate back, ok?" Riiiiiight, not gonna happen.

Kind of pointless to debate about it though. We will see...

[Demon6324236]

Actually PLD was my first job to 75. I know exactly what it takes to manage hate in a large fight. I'm just saying and are willing to bet that 90% of the people still playing today are not gonna go for it. I can see it now "Yeah guys I know you have Ukons and Rags but just turn so the tank can get hate back, ok?" Riiiiiight, not gonna happen.

Kind of pointless to debate about it though. We will see...True, and I know the kind of people you mean, they are the same kind who wipe in Legion to the behemoth because they get cursed by spikes then hit by AoE spells that kill them in one shot. Hopefully this will just be a bit more widespread and forced of a learning experience for people.

[Sapphires]

Disengage mob, mob goes yellow, someone else claims. Good plan!

Because DD+tanks unlocking from the enemy and turning away from it while staying engaged + wont turn yellow is hard!
/eyeroll

[Vivik]

Because DD+tanks unlocking from the enemy and turning away from it while staying engaged + wont turn yellow is hard!
/eyeroll


and also temporarily disengage the enemy to reduce the risk of potent attacks.

Reading comprehension is hard yo.

[Karbuncle]

I know nobody likes the idea of going back to having a tank... But, yah, the game was designed with a tank in mind... from like, square one, you all knew what you were getting into >:I. Still, You have 2 choices when it comes to DEF down.

Unsuck your lazy ass mages and teach them the power of Erase.

or use an actual tank and follow Okipuit's Advice.

You dont need a PLD, a WAR Tank can tank just as well, Focus Erase on the main tank, rather it be WAR, MNK, or DRK... then the lesser DD can pull back until its removed. "ZERGRUSH" was a strategy we adapted as a community, and the reason is because its pretty fool-proof and requires the least amount of brainwork from anyone involved... long story short, its a strategy for idiots that happens to be the quickest route when the group is good.

So, this is not to say everyone uses ZERG is dumb, But its a strategy intentionally designed to "Kill it before anyone needs to use their brain" (I.E Cures/Erase/etc)... which is also why Perfect Defense plays a part... even less brain power involved. So, now, We may have to actually begin to readapt the strategies they intended us to use, or at the very least, (POINT ONE) - UnSuck our terrible mages who have grown dumb over the years due to dulled strategies.

If our mages can learn their jobs again, this whole update is a none-issue. Assign a "Main" Tank to be kept alive, PLD, WAR, etc... then teach the mages to focus on certain debuffs. Might actually have to rework party structures a bit, RDM might be thrown back in for assisting in -Na/Haste/Refresh Cycles so the WHM/SCHs can focus on Healing/-Na spells.... instead of one inept WHM trying to do it all and "WIPE AND TRY AGAIN" when Perfect Defense wears off.

Okay, If i sound a little jaded, i might be... Basically, I don't see this update changing anything for good parties, good teams, and smart people... We'll adapt, make a better strategy, and maybe become a little less Zombie-mode. Sure, it won't completely remedy Zerging, but at least it'll make some people rethink the best party set ups for mobs to include contingencies like needing Erase, a designated "oh sh*t" tank, so on, so forth.

Its not the end of the world. We will adapt, and I think it'll serve to make, at the very least, Mage jobs far less mind numbing and involved.

[Dantedmc]

Same as the above and I'm sure you guys are aware of the following: More focus will be required to remove applicable status ailments and also temporarily disengage the enemy to reduce the risk of potent attacks.

If more focus is required for removing status ailments then nas must be adjusted.

By the time a healer is finished removing a status ailment from the entire party, the ailment is already back up most of the time or the ailment can't be removed at all. Additionally many nms afflict multiple statuses effects at a huge distance to multiple targets. Mages need a better way to handle this.

- Erase needs to be made to remove at a minimum 5 stats a time,possible based on enhancing magic

- AoE NAs and Erase needs to be added to whm.

- Esuna needs to be changed, its often extremely dangerous to head into melee range, when you're likely to be killed / debilitated by some other AoE effect. Allow Esuna to remove more ailments, at least three and make it centered around a party member, not the caster and remove the requirement that the whm must also be debilitated. Allow misery to further increase the amount of ailments and variety such as encumbrance and charm. Current Misery in general, while nice in theory does not work often because it is too dangerous to step into melee range.

- Give a single target version of esuna to sch.

- Add cleanse(ga) that removes muddle, encumbrance and amnesia.

- In order to not upset those who have obtained yagrush, give it grants "divine caress effect" and enhances "divine caress" effect, so that Caress will be active full time with yagrush and it will able to block multiple ailments simultaneously as opposed to one caress overwriting another.

[Calamity]

I'm not in favor of zerging everything, but I tell you, I'm just as much not in favor of things going back to how they were in sky with a pld and a bunch of sam/thf's. I always thought the idea of a tank that can't keep it's own hate was a flawed idea to begin with. This is not to say the mages and DD's should just go all out and hope the tank can keep up. You gotta play smart. But the idea of a tank that needs the help of thinks like SATA, and other such enmity manipulating options is just... silly. I really hope that options have changed enough since those days to have a real genuine self sufficient tank... but I have my doubts.

[Zeargi]

Mind you I'm not a fan of only going to events as a SMN, but PD/Embrava require the 1hr abilities to be active... Even BLM's Meteor spell only requires Elemental Seal to use. And let's be honest, out of the two "God Abilities" - Zantetsuken blows horribly. Perfect Defense is scores better, and one of the highest in usefulness. Earthen Ward still isn't where it needs to be, Earthen Armor's duration is appalling, Hastega needs to be looked, Pavor Nocturnus is really useless unless you have another SMN with you to use Nightmare. So far the most useful have been Soothing Ruby, Shock Squall, and Fleet Wing. And if this whole thing is based on skill to increase the time, how about you give Summoner that A+ to Summoning Magic Skill that it rightfully should have.

[FrankReynolds]

Perhaps have a PLD actually tanking a mob, where everyone could disengage except the tank so the mob stays claimed and everyone but a single member can stay at a safe distance, just a crazy idea.

The real problem is that most of the hard mobs in the game ATM are in timed events. Disengaging so that you can recover is just going to mean that you fail the event in good health.

[Quetzacoatl]

What SE really should be doing to make up for the Embrava nerf is to somehow make Adloquium's Regain effect Tier Up, based on Enhancing Magic, to a maximum of 3 or 4 TP/tic. I wouldn't be bothered by this at all.

1 TP from Adloquium just seems like it's not getting the potential Adloquium deserves, and quite frankly, a buff for that spell would have SCHs dancing with joy, with the thought to be able to have a job again at this point of the game. Hopefully this changes with SoA.

[saevel]

There is a difference between what you said and what I am saying. I am not saying go back to how the game was 5 years ago, I am saying change your strategy to where its not just a never ending zerg against enemies. Right now no one can dispute the fact that 90% of content relates to killing whatever it is you are fighting in the least amount of time, because of this there is little real strategy involved, no tanking, and no coordinated teamwork. If this update changes things as much as it sounds like it might, then this will flip, we will not be mindlessly zerging things, they will stomp us down, we will need more defensive measures, for instance, a PLD tanking the mob, defense on gear not being pointless, more PDT/MDT/Haste Hybrid sets. Right now we are to offensive centric in how we play this game, everything is more damage, thats all people gear for, its all people want to do, this sounds as though it will make defense actually part of the game again, which is in my opinion a good thing. If you cant stand the idea of actually backing off of the mob once in a while, then I don't know what to tell you, Final Fantasy has always involved a level of strategy, which this game had more than any other at a time, and now lacks massively, this sounds as though it may bring some of that back.


Won't work at all, ever.

See we need to actually kill the monster, not just stare at it for two to three hours. These monsters tend to have 100,000+ HP. A PLD turtled up has no where near the damage output to kill it in anything less then an hour, probably two. So you need melee DD's to go in and bring it's HP down. Now as damage is, by an order of magnitude, the #1 best way of building hate those DD's will then become the tanks in short order. Disengaging isn't an option as the NM will just follow the melee's back to the mages and kill them all with the aoe's I mentioned above.

Now does the whole reason for using melee's to tank make sense? We use them because they will be the "tanks" reguardless of what they do. Winning the fight necessitates killing the enemy. Killing the enemy necessitates using DD's. Using DD's always results in them "tanking". Thus winning the fight inevitably results in DD's holding hate. The PLD brick-wall tank is only useful from the moment you pop / claim / engage the NM until the moment you start killing it, typically 30s or less. Now as DD's take more damage then the brick-wall PLD, and in order to win we must use DD's, we're faced with a problem.

Only on DPS spreedsheets and theory crafting does the enemy sit there doing absolutely nothing. In actual game play this NM will be doing it's damnedest to ensure you fail in your mission to kill it. It will deploy a whole host of cheap moves, some VERY cheap. Your DD's now must face those cheap moves in their quest to bring you ultimate victory. Since the chance of the monster succeeding in it's mission to make you fail increase's with the length of time it's alive it becomes in our best interests to reduce the length of it's existence to the shortest possible.

Using reason and logic we can conclude then that it's in our best interests to keep our DD's alive an kill the enemy NM as fast as possible so as to maximize our chance of success. Towards this goal we then deploy and abuse various mechanics to not only enhance our DD's killing capacity (aka buffing) but also to minimize the enemy monsters capacity to employ cheap tactics (stunning / fanatics spam / ect..).

That is the whole reason we "zerg zerg zerg", not because we're lazy or unimaginative but because when faced with insanely overpowered NM's it becomes the only strategy that works. There simply IS NO OTHER WAY TO DO IT. So until SE fix's the enemy NM's overpowered capability's we will continue using zerg tactics. This defense update is a direct buff to the enemy's offensive capacity, thus already overpowered NM's because even more overpowered and thus force us to kill them even faster and stun them even more then we already do. This update will not encourage "more strategic play", it encourages more zerging as you have an even shorter time to kill the enemy before it wipes you with 1000~2000 damage aoe moves.

Now there are a few methods to go about actually fixing this. The biggest & best thing they could do also ends up being the simplest. Monsters are overpowered because their offensive ability has grown much faster then our ability to soak up the damage. Giving an across the board 60~100% HP increase for anyone 90+ will prevent much of the problem. If the average heavy DD had approx 3000 HP at 99 then they could soak up the 1000+ damage aoe attacks and would reduce the requirement to immediately kill it right f*cking now. Stupid crazy aoe status debuff spam is still an issue, and stupid cheap unavoidable weakness / encumbrance / doom / death moves are definitely a problem, those need to be dealt with.

[Umichi]

Would it be possible to tone down the status ailments we receive right now from current enemies? I do not mean simply defense related, but some attacks are extremely unbalanced, some are more easily avoided because it involves an event like Voidwatch where we have drinks that allow us to completely evade the attack, others are not so nice.

An example of some of these attacks, Typhoean Rage, an attack used by Harpy mobs, Heavy AoE damage, silence, amnesia, encumbrance, and muddle for 60 seconds. This attack basically rips away all forms of action, no gear so you can not attack, no abilities so you can not act, no items so you may not recover, and no spells so you may not cast, on top of this it is a conal AoE which can hit multiple people in a very long range, it is capable of removing half of a party from the battle in a single move.

Another attack, Oblivion's Mantle, deals strong damage, weakness, and 10-count doom. If you were not in a panic enough about removing doom from all of the effected people who were in range of this widespread AoE attack, you are also hit with a ton of damage as well as weakness which is sure to lower your HP to a level where a single attack from one of these Gallu is enough to defeat you. Were these ailments single target they would still be highly effective, if conal, they would be even worse, but it is an AoE attack that hits everyone within 20 yalms, and because there is no way to remove weakness besides waiting it out, even if you manage to remove everyones Doom the weakness is likely to end up giving you the same result in the end.

The point I am trying to make with this post is that there are some attacks which throw so many debuffs at us that we can not hope to counteract them effectively no matter our efforts. Some completely lock you down, others flat out kill you, and unless these types of attacks are changed we will still have little defense. People currently rely on Perfect Defense for many fights, the reason is due to the high damage, this much is true, but even if we had the enemy doing only 200s rather than 1000s it would make little difference when with a single special attack a monster can turn a party into a graveyard because of overwhelming ailments that sap their life away in a matter of seconds. I completely understand the idea of holding back and not flat out fully attacking a monster, but when attacks like these are around it is hard to put up a real defense without stopping literally all offense, and with time limits places on some events like Meeble Burrows it seems as though an all out assault is sometimes the only option in order to win in time.

Hi just wanted to say.. everything you described are all based on strategies involving full on attack.... this game isn't all about full on attacks... hence why these mobs use those attacks... they are meant as deterrents... Remember when this content first came out? it was fairly difficult cause no one had anywhere near the amount of bonuses most people have acquired playing VW all the time.... Now they have access to things such as items that make you immune to magic and damage, so you can usually always muscle your way through a match because by the time you're done using your items you just proceed to the next new set of items!

All I'm saying is this... Why would they nerf their monsters because it's going up against multiple powerful foes? you wanna throw down?! Well okay this monster can throw down too... at least that's the mentality they want to match for their playerbase recently.. you know the people who pay their salaries. After all we created this kind of zerg esque atmosphere in the game, SE had a different approach. So you only have yourself to blame really...SE is trying to revision what was once a great battle system in this game so again why would they nerf their mobs?

[saevel]

This should stand as a shining example to everyone why you shouldn't do drugs in school. There is so much wrong with this post that to correct it all would be a monumental task. So I'll just be short, the NM will use those attacks regardless of the number of people surrounding it. You need the NM to die to win the fight and thus acquire your reward. To do that you need melees to hit the NM and thus the NM will use it's alliance wiping wave motion cannon. Your only hope of success is to overwhelm it's AI and kill it as fast as possible.

[Camate]

Greetings everyone. :)

The version update is right around the corner, and I have a couple more points to follow-up on.



With the level correction adjustments for the monsters that are added in Seekers of Adoulin, I believe Flashy Shot will lose its meaning completely…

We do believe that revamping Flashy Shot is necessary, and we will be making adjustments so that there is a good effect in line with the level correction adjustment; however, we will not be able to address it in the upcoming version update. We apologize, but please give us a bit of time for this.



Whatever happened to the planned revamp to Recycle? Are you ever going to make adjustments so that ranged attacks?


Shortly after the release of Seekers of Adoulin we plan to make Recycle a job trait. With this, we will be making it so the effect of Recycle is stronger than what it is currently.

In addition to this, we also plan on changing the effect of Scavenge. Specifically, we will be making it and ability where you can recover ammo that has been consumed.

We feel that with the above two adjustments the costs associated with ammo will be reduced.



I’m thinking it would have been a good idea to make the elemental magic adjustments at the same time Geomancer is introduced to the game, so I would really like to see these changes implemented as soon as possible.

Also, are any adjustments going to be made for cumulative magic resistance? With the current job balance I feel this is not necessary.


We understand that this is being said in comparison to the current front-line job situation. However, the battles in Seeker of Adoulin will be quite different and the merits for being able to attack from long distance will be greater. While it’s true that the damage for elemental magic spells will be lower when they are resisted, one large benefit is that they do not miss due to evasion like melee attacks. With the elemental magic adjustments that will be made from here on out, as well as through the addition of new equipment, these variations and other things will be reduced, so we’d like to start out by doing this.

Eliminating the cumulative magic resistance right away would only cause melee to be unnecessary, and would work against everything we are doing with the restructuring of the battles. With that said, we’d like to perform the adjustments we are working on first and then plan our next move based on the results. There is a possibility for adjustments to cumulative magic resistance if we determine that it is necessary.



Please make sure that you make adjustments so that using a Cure V doesn’t make enemies instantly head for the white mage.


While balancing content such as Skirmish, we noticed that when white mages used Cure V the frequency of enemies targeting them was high, so we are currently making adjustments.



With the attack/defense ratio adjustments I’m worried that my automaton is going to become extremely weak.


If no care is given to use earth maneuvers for boosting defense, then there is a possibility that the damage taken by the automaton will increase.

With that said though, as stronger monsters are introduced, players will have to obtain stronger equipment to bridge the level gap, whereas pets do not have this option (since they cannot equip gear), so we feel that adjustments are necessary moving forward.

[Gaspee]

Greetings everyone. :)

Sortly after the release of Seekers of Adoulin we plan to make Recycle a job trait. With this, we will be making it so the effect of Recycle is stronger than what it is currently.

In addition to this, we also plan on changing the effect of Scavenge. Specifically, we will be making it and ability where you can recover ammo that has been consumed.

We feel that with the above two adjustments the costs associated with ammo will be reduced.


This totally made my day <3

[Tennotsukai]

Well, that's disappointing about our pets receiving more damage due to this adjustment. Camate, any word on newer blu spells, if they are to come in the near future?

[Asymptotic]

I don't understand. Why would Flashy Shot need revamping? I thought level correction (player-->monster) was not being removed, only level correction (monster-->player).

[Dekar]

I don't understand. Why would Flashy Shot need revamping? I thought level correction (player-->monster) was not being removed, only level correction (monster-->player).

Wasn't there also two attachments for PUP that addressed this? Attuner and something else. One was for attack and another for accuracy.

[Oddwaffle]

Wouldn't reducing the demand for ammo turn craftsmen away from making ammo form sale and just increase the price anyway? I think its better to lower the requirements for making ammo

[Cowardlybabooon]

Wouldn't reducing the demand for ammo turn craftsmen away from making ammo form sale and just increase the price anyway? I think its better to lower the requirements for making ammo

Initially, that would seem correct, but the reality is that there are tons of crafters that can make the ammo. Availability and price of ingredients would be a much more important factor, and if people are using less ammo, then more ingredients will sit on the AH longer, and the price of them will drop. This would imply the possibility that ammo could get so cheap that nobody wants to make it and it's just hard to find, but it's unlikely that it would get expensive because there will always be undercutters when the ingredients are cheap.

[Kojo]

Hey, Camate. I'm curious, will a zone in Adoulin completely replace Port Jeuno as everyone's hangout? We saw in the live feed it'll have Jeuno linked Auction Houses and Waypoints, but will it have Abyssea NPCs and VW content? Secondly, will the 3 starting nations and Aht Urghan Whitegate ever get Waypoints of their own?

[Economizer]

While balancing content such as Skirmish, we noticed that when white mages used Cure V the frequency of enemies targeting them was high, so we are currently making adjustments.

An alternative translation of similar comments made by Mocchi yields something like this:


Since there aren't many situations in which you need to cast Cure VI, if you just cast Cure VI as a replacement to Cure V, you will gain more enmity. Cure VI is really just intended as a last resort emergency cure.

I think it was from this post here:




Can you confirm this officially? I think it would provide some much needed insight into future discussions on healing magic to have the official sign off that this is in fact the dev team's official position on Cure VI, particularly when discussing cures with other players on these forums.

[Raksha]

Eliminating the cumulative magic resistance right away would only cause melee to be unnecessary

Toss your relics boys and grab them magian staves.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Two hours are not two hours anyways. Two hours are really just "once an event" abilities, we have many different ways to reset them prematurely that we never really wait the two hours if we actually need it again before hand. Take for example, parties for NNI, they use CORs for their 2hour via either shouts or DDs changing jobs, if thats not available, they use MMM or Revits from Besieged or Abyssea. People in Dyna doing ADL use CORs, people in Prov use CORs in the event of a wipe. These are things people do to avoid that problem and circumvent it.

Instead of derailing, stay on topic. The reason i stated i prefered two hour abilities to one hour is exactly that. A two hour ability is better, the reason for the embrava nerf and perfect defense nerfs, are because they are already powerful two hour abilities and when the DEV decidied to change all two hours to one hour recast they said those two abilites will have to be nerfed because they would be even more overpowered as 1 hour abilites. Conclusion, if the recast time for an ability were longer than the ability itself can be greater, I.E. balance.

Instead, you chose to lecture about obvious stuff, like cor in adl fights, lmao, no shit.

[Concerned4FFxi]

...
Accusations of them not knowing how the game works isn't going to be treated with any credibility if you post in a way that makes it seem like you don't understand how ratio works. This isn't a "you will always take 100% more damage from here on" adjustment.

1. Do you not read the DEV posts, I won't point out names, but one of the top programmers/leaders for 11 has stated he didn't beat maat and doesn't have a character at max level... I'd say that qualifies as not playing the game, don't you? (especially today were returning players can be at cap in a week or less)

2. I never said you will always take 100% more damage from here out, I said I noticed 25% increase/decrease from berserker/defender, and how insane an increase to 100% will be. And lets face it, if you noticed 25% your gonna feel 100% five rows back. like when someone you don't know gets kicked in the junk, and you feel it...

It's real simple, but you took my words, and twisted them. All I said was 100% is too much. I gave, what i thought was simple, a reference about how I notice the damage increase from berserker, as well as the damage taken increase. Based on this, I feel increasing ANY DAMAGE TAKEN to 100% it's current value, under ANY CONDITION, is too extreme and shows a lack of judgement on the DEV. My belief, as based upon their responses and personal statements made about thier own game play experiences lead me to believe this.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Lastly, here we are minutes/hours before the update takes full effect, I'm curious as to what long term effect changing the attack/defense will do to the current balances:

STR Based WS are currently the most powerful (non-abyssea) weaponskill. Will this attack nerf further the gap between Str based modifying WS and other stat based WS.

Example, CDC is 60% Dex mod, well, I always tried to stack attack and accuracy on hnm, rather then trying to hit cap dex, now with the nerf is it even worth it to use stat modifiers in ws like the empyrean ones, were the modifiers are high, but not as high as a merited ws? I'm sure some dex will be required, but if you can get more bang for your buck by loading up attack....

I'll be the first to admit I'm not savy with numbers, but this is a concern I've illustrated it enough so that my point can be clearly made.

I don't see real application by the DEV here, I just see a modist reworking, so they can focus on "more important issues"

[Tennotsukai]

So with the update, anyone know if there was a fix to certain blu spells/other ws's additional effects that do not function properly?

ex: barbed crescent.

[Demon6324236]

A two hour ability is better, the reason for the embrava nerf and perfect defense nerfs, are because they are already powerful two hour abilities and when the DEV decidied to change all two hours to one hour recast they said those two abilites will have to be nerfed because they would be even more overpowered as 1 hour abilites. Conclusion, if the recast time for an ability were longer than the ability itself can be greater, I.E. balance.Yeah, no shit, the point in lowering their power at the same time as lowering their recast is because as a 1-hour recast you would be able to use to powerful of abilities to quickly in succession, but wait, we already do that with CORs and such anyways, so really its a balancing tactic as well. If you can not understand that then its your problem not mine, but I can assure you SE never intended us to do events relying on two jobs SP abilities while we bring 5 CORs to reset them when needed, that was all the player bases idea, and part of why it does need balanced. Basically your saying you prefer them leave them as they were because you get stronger abilities with no penalty at all because even though they set the higher timer, no one actually gives a damn about that timer when you can reset it anyways.

[Bloodrain]

Adjustments to Twilight Scythe
As was mentioned in a previous post (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29831-Overall-Battle-System-Adjustments-for-the-Future?p=398443&viewfull=1#post398443), we will be changing the weapon so that it is useless. So, by all means, just drop it now to clear some room in your inventory.

That sounds about right.

[FrankReynolds]

I can assure you SE never intended us to do events relying on two jobs SP abilities while we bring 5 CORs to reset them when needed

No, What they actually intended was for us to use a paladin to tank everything and for fights to last like 30 minutes. They never wanted us to Zerg anything. They come from a culture or mode of thinking where teaming up and fighting a nasty nm with a bunch of friends is the highlight of the game. They intended us to still be miles behind where we are now because they think we should be enjoying the game for the game play. Not the gear. Unfortunately for them, I want my shinies now. Not later.

[Demon6324236]

No, What they actually intended was for us to use a paladin to tank everything and for fights to last like 30 minutes. They never wanted us to Zerg anything. They come from a culture or mode of thinking where teaming up and fighting a nasty nm with a bunch of friends is the highlight of the game. They intended us to still be miles behind where we are now because they think we should be enjoying the game for the game play. Not the gear. Unfortunately for them, I want my shinies now. Not later.
Basically your saying you prefer them leave them as they were because you get stronger abilities with no penalty at all because even though they set the higher timer, no one actually gives a damn about that timer when you can reset it anyways.Lets just ask SE to make Tabula Rasa have a 6 hour recast, that way they can buff Embrava a ton so that it lasts like 20 minutes, then when we use Perpetuance and AF3+2 Gloves we can have Embrava for 50 minutes instead! Its not like we will be effected by the timer anyways since we just reset it after we use it.

No, the entire point in a recast is that you can not use the ability for a certain amount of time, in the case of SPs they are very powerful, and thus, a very long recast. Recast times are meant to be a penalty for the high powered ability, really we don't even go by 1-hour recasts as it is, the fact we spam them the way we do by reseting them is why they should have been nerfed anyways. When we can not reset them any more, then we can have back their old potency, because it will be balanced, till then, no.

[Concerned4FFxi]

Yeah, no shit, the point in lowering their power at the same time as lowering their recast is because as a 1-hour recast you would be able to use to powerful of abilities to quickly in succession, but wait, we already do that with CORs and such anyways, so really its a balancing tactic as well. If you can not understand that then its your problem not mine, but I can assure you SE never intended us to do events relying on two jobs SP abilities while we bring 5 CORs to reset them when needed, that was all the player bases idea, and part of why it does need balanced. Basically your saying you prefer them leave them as they were because you get stronger abilities with no penalty at all because even though they set the higher timer, no one actually gives a damn about that timer when you can reset it anyways.

We are saying the same thing, again and again. You keep talking about COR and all that shit has nothing to do with what I'm saying. All your doing is saying the obvious about events and reusing our two hour. That has nothing to do with what I'm saying, please stop. Here it is one more time:

I prefer two hour abilities to stay as two hour abilities. I'd be happy if they made them 24hour abilities. The logic is simple, and can't be agrued. The longer the ability recast, the more that ability can offer due to balancing it's recast timer. There is no agrueing this, the DEV has said it about balance, and we all read the embrava nerf info, your not breathing any light into this.

Also note, I stated that smn and sch two hours were overpowered compared to the other job abilites, and i stated that I would have prefered keeping two hours as two hours (because if it's a two hour then the effect of the ability can last longer, they said they shorted the duration of embrava and pd because it's no longer a two hour ability AND was overpowered) and increasing the other 20 jobs two hours so that their could have been balance.

Not you, nor I, have said anything that the DEV didn't already post. All your doing is trying to come out on top in an arguement, that isn't even an arguement... It's you going off topic about resetting a job ability while hating on me, meantime I'm asking for a one/two/24 hour job ability that's worth using.

Summary: I prefer two hour abilities that are worth using, over watered down 1hour. I prefer improving the other 20 job's two hours, so they can be balanced with the old pd and embrava. That's it. It's not a discussion about tactics or resetting abilities.

[Karbuncle]

The idea is to balance away from everything being PD/Embrava > Zerg, not "Buff the other 2hours so its even easier to PD/Embrava > Zerg everything".

I know and understand the reasoning for their nerfs. Because if they didn't, every enemy in the game would need to be balanced around the idea of PD/Embrava... Likely meaning good old Deathga. They said this when the nerf was brought up, if they kept the abilities as is, the entirety of the new expansion would need to have Enemies balanced around PD/Embrava so they weren't just easy zerg fests, I.E boring.

I like the new direction, It likely won't completely stop zerging, But at least it'll be a bit less mindless. I know the name of the game is doing everything fast and instant gratification (yayhumanity), but I like that they're trying to make the game more than 3 R/E/M DD and a Slew of Support buffers.

[Demon6324236]

I prefer two hour abilities to stay as two hour abilities. I'd be happy if they made them 24hour abilities. The logic is simple, and can't be agrued. The longer the ability recast, the more that ability can offer due to balancing it's recast timer. There is no agrueing this, the DEV has said it about balance, and we all read the embrava nerf info, your not breathing any light into this.Your right, there is no arguing this, you are asking for something stupidly. You are saying they should have longer timers so they are stronger abilities even though the player base will not be effected by the timer anyways. You are gaining all of the benefits of having the longer recast without any of the flaws of having a longer recast, is it really so hard to understand why that is wrong?

[Kincard]

they said they shorted the duration of embrava and pd because it's no longer a two hour ability

When have they ever, ever said this? The only reason embrava and PD were ever nerfed were because they were ridiculously powerful. You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. The abilities are balanced based around the idea that you can only use them once (and twice if you're really stretching) per event, barring using special abilities and revitalizers that come from that event itself. The timer was shortened because of they way they are now designing their events (With the intension that you won't play them long enough to get more than one use out of the SP ability), it has nothing to do with an ability's timer affecting it's potency or whatever the hell it is you are trying to make up.

If they wanted to implement "I win" buttons on a 24 hours timer they would've done that.

[Concerned4FFxi]

When have they ever, ever said this?

In the very orginal posting about the nerf, the director went to great lengths to explain why it was done. In it he cited these reasons for the nerf:

1. the abilities were already better than most other two hrs, the player base was abusing it to clear content and become dependant on it instead of coming up with alternative play styles, so it warranted change to the formula themselves, e.i. refresh and not regain for embrava.

2. all 2hrs were gonna be one hour, so the duration of PD and embrava were adjusted because of this

I think you guys need to understand there was two seperate reason for the nerf, and each reason contributed differently to said nerf. the length of the abilities themselves were reduced because they were now a 1 hour ability. The effects of the abilities were changed because they were overpowered.

I am asking that the length of all 1hour abilies be returned to two hours and increase the duration (in the case of PD and embrava) and other two hours get some sort of balanced boost, instead of taking the easy way out which is what SE did and will continue to do, and insteaad of buffing 20 1/2hr abiliies they just gimped these two, so that the other 20 jobs can live.

As for embrava, it's like the defense/attack ratio change. i support change, I just don't support using a missile to kill a sniper!

[Concerned4FFxi]

Your right, there is no arguing this, you are asking for something stupidly. You are saying they should have longer timers so they are stronger abilities even though the player base will not be effected by the timer anyways. You are gaining all of the benefits of having the longer recast without any of the flaws of having a longer recast, is it really so hard to understand why that is wrong?


One Job's 1hour has nothing to do with the rest of the 21 job's 1hour. Saying the game can't get this, or that, because COR can reset the ability is just stupid. In case you didn't realise, if sch and smn get lengthened recast timers in exchange for buffing the ability, so would cor. So, it's balanced. It will still take a cor 2hr to reset there own 2hour.

In your post above, you state that you don't believe it would happen. And because of this, you state the way I went about asking for an improvement is stupid. At no time, did you say you would or would not welcome the increase, if it was done in the manor i asked for it (buff all 1hours and make them longer recasts). That makes you a troll, instead of saying thats a good or bad idea and here's why, you went into attacking me because you insist that it won't happen because of cor resetting these uber, lengthly abilities. You are an Ass.

[Demon6324236]

One Job's 1hour has nothing to do with the rest of the 21 job's 1hour. Saying the game can't get this, or that, because COR can reset the ability is just stupid. In case you didn't realise, if sch and smn get lengthened recast timers in exchange for buffing the ability, so would cor. So, it's balanced. It will still take a cor 2hr to reset there own 2hour.

In your post above, you state that you don't believe it would happen. And because of this, you state the way I went about asking for an improvement is stupid. At no time, did you say you would or would not welcome the increase, if it was done in the manor i asked for it (buff all 1hours and make them longer recasts). That makes you a troll, instead of saying thats a good or bad idea and here's why, you went into attacking me because you insist that it won't happen because of cor resetting these uber, lengthly abilities. You are an Ass.Ok then, I am an ass, and I'm still right. You want the benefit of a longer recast without the penalties of having to follow through on that recast, games are not supposed to work like that, its a simple truth. Your saying you can only have CORs reset once, well right now thats basically what we do anyways, we only reset once. I rather it stay as it is, it seems more balanced. As for not "One Job's 1hour has nothing to do with the rest of the 21 job's 1hour." the entire adjustment to Embrava and PD were just as you said in your other post, effected by the fact us players abused them, as such, they changed them. We abuse COR 2-hours as well, why should they not take this into account when looking at your idea? I am not attacking you, I am attacking your idea by saying it sounds dumb for a few reasons I am trying to explain to you, but rather than listen you contend that I am now a troll, an ass, explaining the obvious, and have come off insulting yourself. Please rethink your position on this before you bother replying to this post.

[Kincard]

2. all 2hrs were gonna be one hour, so the duration of PD and embrava were adjusted because of this

You may want to consider the next time you paraphrase something someone said that you make sure that it's something they actually said, otherwise you just destroy your credibility on any kind of sensible point you might have had buried somewhere deep inside your posts.

[Economizer]

http://i.imgur.com/QeLMSox.png