NNI D/C Breaks Lamp Floor

[Triffle]

Don't know if anyone has had this problem before but my group managed to get unlucky with it during a run. We just hit a Lamp Code floor and right as we hit it one of our members started to disconnect.

We went and hit the lamp when he was gone and it wouldn't let us go up. There really needs to be a fix that if someone disconnects they don't count as one of the people that needs to hit the lamp. It was basically a waste of a good 5 minutes before the guy could connect again and ruined the run completely.

[Fynlar]

That's just asking for potential abuse. One person finds the lamp -> everyone else logs out and comes back.

Sometimes d/cs will ruin your day, kinda unavoidable fact of MMOs.

[Triffle]

That's actually an extremely stupid reason. To log out and log back in takes longer than just hitting the code lamp. This is a broken aspect of the game not one that can be abused.

[Fynlar]

That's actually an extremely stupid reason. To log out and log back in takes longer than just hitting the code lamp.

No, not always.

Again, there are plenty of instances in both this game and many other MMOs where one person d/cing can screw you; that does not make it a "broken" aspect of the game, that's just tough luck.

[Demon6324236]

When someone DCs they should not count any more as a player who needs to hit the lamp.

[Triffle]

No, not always.

Again, there are plenty of instances in both this game and many other MMOs where one person d/cing can screw you; that does not make it a "broken" aspect of the game, that's just tough luck.

Basically you are saying that just because other games have broken content that can screw you over, they shouldn't fix the broken content in here. Seems legit. A member of the party should not be counted as if he is in the area if he is not online, the same way it works for other battle content.

If someone D/Cs in an Odin run and your left with 5/6, it doesn't count you as 6/6. The same thing should happen in NNI. This is glitched, broken content.

[Oddwaffle]

Because everyone is the same therefore you should not try to be better? That's the recipe for failure of making a product. If a feature that occurs because of some random chance is prevent people from playing the game then you probably should try to fix it. If it can't be fixed then it's better to do some work-around rather than telling people "Tough luck buddy".

Maybe they should make it so that you will lose all battles if one or more members of your party gets connection lost. I mean they should be consistent if NNI is like that right? Then just throw the 'Tough luck' comment when people ask about it.

[Fynlar]

If someone D/Cs in an Odin run and your left with 5/6, it doesn't count you as 6/6. The same thing should happen in NNI. This is glitched, broken content.

You don't understand what the definition of a glitch is, do you?


If a feature that occurs because of some random chance is prevent people from playing the game then you probably should try to fix it. If it can't be fixed then it's better to do some work-around rather than telling people "Tough luck buddy".

Again, there is no "workaround" that cannot be potentially abused, aside from the game just taking pity on you and giving you the floor for free after like 5 minutes or so. That is why nothing will be done about this.

Make it so that people who aren't logged on don't need to hit lamp, and you will have people logging out on purpose to be able to "activate" their lamp, which is something I'm sure SE wants to avoid. It's the same reason why it takes 30 seconds of resting time or 60 seconds of red-dot time in order to logout outside your MH, they don't want people abusing the system and easily escaping a potentially deadly situation.

If you're gonna complain about how awful lamp floors in Nyzul are, go right ahead, but there is nothing "broken" about code lamps, they function exactly as intended; and again, a run potentially being ruined by one d/c is just how a MMO can work. Unless it's the actual game servers screwing up your connection, go complain to your ISPs, not to SE.

[Demon6324236]

Again, there is no "workaround" that cannot be potentially abused, aside from the game just taking pity on you and giving you the floor for free after like 5 minutes or so. That is why nothing will be done about this.
When someone DCs they should not count any more as a player who needs to hit the lamp.This has no real flaw, it takes way to long to log back in for it to be an acceptable idea for people to simply DC themselves in order to not count for the lamps.

[Triffle]

You don't understand what the definition of a glitch is, do you?



Again, there is no "workaround" that cannot be potentially abused, aside from the game just taking pity on you and giving you the floor for free after like 5 minutes or so. That is why nothing will be done about this.

Make it so that people who aren't logged on don't need to hit lamp, and you will have people logging out on purpose to be able to "activate" their lamp, which is something I'm sure SE wants to avoid. It's the same reason why it takes 30 seconds of resting time or 60 seconds of red-dot time in order to logout outside your MH, they don't want people abusing the system and easily escaping a potentially deadly situation.

If you're gonna complain about how awful lamp floors in Nyzul are, go right ahead, but there is nothing "broken" about code lamps, they function exactly as intended; and again, a run potentially being ruined by one d/c is just how a MMO can work. Unless it's the actual game servers screwing up your connection, go complain to your ISPs, not to SE.

IT CANNOT BE ABUSED. IT TAKES TOO LONG FOR EVERYONE TO LOG OUT AND LOG BACK IT. THIS MAKES IT NOT VIABLE TO ABUSE AND IT IS ONLY A HINDRANCE TO PEOPLE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND BETTER WITH THE CAPS LOCK? I don't know how many more times I can explain it. I'm fairly sure you're trolling, but you might genuinely be an idiot. If so I'm sorry for your loss of cognitive function and please try to restrain yourself from ever posting again.

[Yinnyth]

Also, if 2 people lose connection from the run, order lamps become even more of a run-ender if there's 5 of them. NNI should detect that 2 people have lost connection and remove one of the lamps from the order.

[Triffle]

Lamp order isn't as much of an issue as code. Lamp order one person can still possibly hit 2 lamps by themselves, but for code the floor completely breaks and you cannot go up until the person rejoins.

[Yinnyth]

But what if 5 people lose connection and the lamps are "hit at the same time"?

[Demon6324236]

Also, if 2 people lose connection from the run, order lamps become even more of a run-ender if there's 5 of them. NNI should detect that 2 people have lost connection and remove one of the lamps from the order.Question becomes, which one? Can the game tell which will take the longest to get to and deactivate it? Take out the last in the order? How would that work? Also there would have to be a way to tell which is deactivated, it would suck if the first to be found was deactivated and the person did not know till it was their turn in the order, then they have to find another lamp quickly. Just saying, that one may be a bit more tricky than Code where it can just remove the need for the DCed character to touch it.


But what if 5 people lose connection and the lamps are "hit at the same time"?If 5 people DC then the run is over anyways, they all lost Embrava and a single DD with Embrava is not going to go very far, unless recasting it is coming up soon and they all make it back in less than 2 minutes, even then... But lets say only 1 person DCs, it would not matter so much, because it is possible for lamps to be close enough for a single person to hit two of them. Even if they are quite far, powder boots allow players to do this as well.



Incase people are not seeing the difference here. Order and Same Time can be competed even if a player DCs, this means even in the event of a disconnection it is actually possible for the party to continue. Code however does not allow you to continue, in the event someone disconnects the entire party is stuck, and must wait for the person to return and touch the lamp before they can continue moving forward. This difference is why it should be changed. Order lamp floors are terrible, they are easily the worst part of Nyzul, the second is Kill All, but Code is worse than either of them if someone DCs, because it can stop the run completely if the person does not return, you can not even leave for your tokens, let alone win.

[Yinnyth]

You cannot complete "same time" lamps if you're down 5 members unless you <pos> hack. Should that one remaining player not be capable of making progress just because his 5 other members lost connection, but are most likely on their way back?

[Demon6324236]

You cannot complete "same time" lamps if you're down 5 members unless you <pos> hack. Should that one remaining player not be capable of making progress just because his 5 other members lost connection, but are most likely on their way back?If you are down 5 members you have only 1 left, if you have only 1 member left it means everyones Embrava is wiped, and everyone but that one member will be unable to return most likely for roughly 1 & a half to 2 minutes at very least if it were an actual DC, rather than a logout. If that were the case, the run is already lost regardless of completing that floor because the next floor would be far to slow with only a single person, and on top of that, unless the half time mark was near perfectly timed, the people will not have Embrava upon returning, so that would screw them as well.

I covered everything above in my other post though...
If 5 people DC then the run is over anyways, they all lost Embrava and a single DD with Embrava is not going to go very far, unless recasting it is coming up soon and they all make it back in less than 2 minutes, even then... But lets say only 1 person DCs, it would not matter so much, because it is possible for lamps to be close enough for a single person to hit two of them. Even if they are quite far, powder boots allow players to do this as well.

I even explained the solution at the end where Same Time floors can be completed with a player MIA. As I said at the end of my post...
Incase people are not seeing the difference here. Order and Same Time can be competed even if a player DCs, this means even in the event of a disconnection it is actually possible for the party to continue. Code however does not allow you to continue, in the event someone disconnects the entire party is stuck, and must wait for the person to return and touch the lamp before they can continue moving forward. This difference is why it should be changed. Order lamp floors are terrible, they are easily the worst part of Nyzul, the second is Kill All, but Code is worse than either of them if someone DCs, because it can stop the run completely if the person does not return, you can not even leave for your tokens, let alone win.

[Demon6324236]

You cannot complete "same time" lamps if you're down 5 members unless you <pos> hack. Should that one remaining player not be capable of making progress just because his 5 other members lost connection, but are most likely on their way back?Say I read this in another light (which is why this is a different post) as though you were saying they should all have the equal chance at advancing. It is technically (but not physically within game laws/boundaries) possible for a single person to activate all lamps at the same time, it is also just as possible (but legally) for a single player to activate all lamps in the correct order. It is not however in any way, shape, or form, possible for a single player to activate the lamp on a code floor (with or without going beyond the rules of the game) which is different than the others.

[Rubeus]

the relative odds of 5 people losing connection on a lamp floor are probably pretty slim unless that person is penta-boxing. Also as stated previously, "that 1 person out of 6" isn't going to finish nyzul by himself regardless, so tokens are really the only option. For what it's worth I vote yes, that 1 person SHOULD not make progress. If nyzul was supposed to have an entry requirement of 1 person, it would already, instead of requiring 3. short answer, yes, that one remaining player should not be capable of making progress. Specifically because his 5 other members lost connection.

Scenario: I get a code lamp floor, everybody touches it, then 5 people d/c. I can still go up because we've accomplished that, so I do. "to make progress." the other 5 log back in, and are now stuck on the lamp floor they've already beaten, because I'm no longer there to "reactivate it." and the game reset their data. Either way all you're accomplishing at this point is whining about how unfair nyzul is, because it sounds an awful lot like "nyzul should be a 1 man requirement and lamp floors shouldn't even exist."

But I do agree that code floors are broken in the d/c aspect.

[Demon6324236]

Either way all you're accomplishing at this point is whining about how unfair nyzul is, because it sounds an awful lot like "nyzul should be a 1 man requirement and lamp floors shouldn't even exist."If you are referring to Yin's post then I believe one of us is taking it the wrong way, so far as I can tell he is making an argument against being able to do it with less people because of DCing because DCing is part of the nature of MMOs themselves, thus not an actual problem with NNI. He is making the point that if everyone should be able to progress in any possible situation where people DC, then shouldn't that one person still be able to continue? Rather than arguing that you should be able to solo it, and they should make it possible. The difference between his remark and what the complaint is about is that the complaint is about a somewhat likely event, where as the chances that 5 people in a party all DC at the same floor, and it happens to be code, are so slim its not worth mentioning, yet, it was mentioned.

If I am mistaken however I do apologies to you both for my mistake.

[NDSI]

Correct, one can get unlucky on a code floor, order is not a problem, neither is same time as you have 20 seconds to light all lamps, also you cannot glitch by having everyone log out on it cause if you have less then 3 members you get ejected from Nyzul just like any other event that requires a minimum number of players.

[Aeonk]

I could see this happening maybe once in a great while, but if this is happening fairly frequently to the point where it becomes a serious hindrance to the group's success... that's not SE's responsibility to create a work around, it's yours to figure out what's going on with your connection.

[Mittenz]

I dont really care either way what becomes of this suggestion (it will likely be ignored anyway) but a couple of facts;

To whomever said it removes you from the area with less than 3 that is correct but I would point out they give you 3mins before you are ejected and that if it takes you longer than 45s to log out and back in then you are probably playing on something below the minimum requirements for this game (we used to use this a long time ago for the first floor salvage frog in ZR took 1min for 5/6 people to log out then back in and have the party fully reformed).

For the one who says it can not be abused because it takes longer to log out than to run, I would assume you have never had the large code floors where half your group is 90s one way and the other is 90s the other way and group 1 finds the lamp it would be quite a bit faster to have 2-3 log out then in losing 45s so they dont have to run 3mins to touch the lamp.

Pretty sure the person saying 5 people d/cing is a troll but if not as long as its only 3 same time lamps it is quite possible for 1 person to hit them, under realistic circumstances 1-2 people dcing in a run wont cause any other lamp floors to create any sort of game stopping issue like it would a code floor.

This is also not really a glitch its "working as intended" as SE would state because not all party members that actively entered the area touched the lamp where a glitch would be something that where all requirements were fulfilled but the expected result did not take place.

Regardless either way this will likely be ignored and is a waste of most peoples time in both reading and posting (only doing it myself cause I am rather bored and trying to waste a bit of time)

[Triffle]

I don't see what it is people are really against. I don't see laziness as a good reason to fix something that is obviously broken. Code floors work fine if a person disconnects in a floor previous to it. We've had once or twice a member of our group disconnect for a while and we were able to progress perfectly fine without him, even getting a code floor that we all could hit and go up. It only breaks when the person disconnects on the actual floor and still counts him as a member of the party. I don't see why it would be so game breaking to fix it. Probably same excuse as to why it took them years to fix disconnect issues in Besieged for Xbox players.

[Yinnyth]

If SE had unlimited resources, sure I'd say fix it. But they don't have unlimited resources to fix one very rare problem in one event which, if you have a good group, can be 100% completed in a month or two, for a total time investment of 15(number of wins to cap out on gear)*0.5(half hour)/0.3(success rate) = 25 hours. Bad things happen. SE can't afford to fix every inconvenient thing. Don't worry though, you'll be done with Nyzul before you know it. Once you find your groove, the wins just start pouring in.

Besides, they're already getting bashed for not living up to their road map, and not having every last bit of SoA implemented at time of launch. Their plate is a little full right now, I think.

Edit: Heck, I'd be happy to help you if you're ever on my server. I kinda like the event overall, and I have over 20 floor 100 wins under my belt (before they made it easier).

[Triffle]

Nothing was said about needing help with NNI or anything. What I have been saying is that there is a bug that needs to be fixed. The idea of the forums is to point these problems out to them. Whether they fix it or not is up to them, but if they keep bringing in badly coded content the problems will keep piling up. They have plenty of resources for bug fixes, there are bugs fixed every update.

[Fynlar]

IT CANNOT BE ABUSED. IT TAKES TOO LONG FOR EVERYONE TO LOG OUT AND LOG BACK IT.

Don't know why it takes you that long; logging out takes 30 seconds, logging back in maybe takes another 30 seconds. Not long at all. I have seen several expansive floors where it would take longer than that to reach the lamp, especially if you're someone that went looking for it in the completely opposite direction.


THIS MAKES IT NOT VIABLE TO ABUSE AND IT IS ONLY A HINDRANCE TO PEOPLE.

No kidding, d/cs are a hindrance. Guess what, it's been like that for everything in the game since the beginning.

They also (usually) aren't SE's problem.


DO YOU UNDERSTAND BETTER WITH THE CAPS LOCK?

No, but it sure makes you look more foolish.

[Demon6324236]

Don't know why it takes you that long; logging out takes 30 seconds, logging back in maybe takes another 30 seconds. Not long at all. I have seen several expansive floors where it would take longer than that to reach the lamp, especially if you're someone that went looking for it in the completely opposite direction.Which also wipes your buffs, most importantly pre-nerf Embrava, post nerf, don't know if it wipes songs from BRD. In either case its not a viable choice of how to do the event, where as it is a viable fix.

[Fynlar]

Which also wipes your buffs, most importantly pre-nerf Embrava, post nerf, don't know if it wipes songs from BRD. In either case its not a viable choice of how to do the event, where as it is a viable fix.

Embrava is worthless now anyway and songs can be easily reapplied if they are that necessary.

[Demon6324236]

Embrava is worthless now anyway and songs can be easily reapplied if they are that necessary.Its worthless for NNI now, but was not when the thread was started, and songs being redone eats up more of your time. The point is that logging out for a code lamp floor is not viable, where as unlike any other type of floor you can continue even if someone DCs, albeit slower than normal, and you can still make progress. This thread is asking for that to be changed so that people can still make progress if a player DCs, just like any other floor. People can not prevent DCs, why is it so terrible to try taking an extra precaution against it effecting a players experience on the game?

[Fynlar]

The point is that logging out for a code lamp floor is not viable,

See, that's the thing, I don't agree with that. It would seem perfectly viable to me, especially now that Embrava is worthless. Bear in mind that the group doesn't necessarily have to wait for the people that log out to come back. It would not take nearly as long to get the run moving again as people seem to think.


People can not prevent DCs, why is it so terrible to try taking an extra precaution against it effecting a players experience on the game?

Again, I think people just need to accept that sometimes a d/c will ruin an event. It doesn't mean you're going to get a refund on your pop item or your BCNM orb or whatever when it happens though, so I don't know why people are expecting anything different to happen with Nyzul.

And as was pointed out earlier, if you have people d/cing often enough in Nyzul for this to be a real issue, your group likely has little chance of winning anyway.

[Triffle]

I'm expecting it to change because it doesn't work like it should. Why should you be able to move up on a code floor if a member D/Cs on the floor previous to that one, but if he D/Cs on the actual code floor you are done? Either make it so you can never go up if someone D/Cs anywhere or make it so you can always go up. One way or the other there needs to be some consistency.

I also still stand on saying it is not viable for everyone except the person near the code lamp to log out. People who say otherwise do not take in all the factors. It takes 30 seconds to log back in. Another give or take 30 seconds for person who hit it to run back to the lamp. Another 30 seconds for everyone to log in AFTER the person has jumped. If anyone logs in before the screw up this supposed "cheat". After that they have to reapply all lost buffs and get their bearings after everyone is back in.

I have yet so see a code lamp floor take longer than a minute for everyone to hit and go up. If you think that is a viable cheat then I'm sorry, you're clearly just in here to troll.