Can we have a secondary weapon? Something we can dual wield?

[Horadrim]

Bare with me here, I feel like most PUPs will go "ugh... wtf?" in response to this but I think we need an alternative, dual-wieldable weapon.

Frankly, I think it should be daggers, but I'm open to anything (if bells are weapons, why not those?)

The reason I think this is because of Magian Trails -- as a PUP you can make a single +Pet H2H weapon, but the caps aren't any higher than the axes a Beastmaster can make. Some might argue "oh, PUP's have access to tons more types of damage than BST" -- but what good does that do us? We get invited to less events and, as a result, have to solo significantly more.

I'd like to be able to equip two weapons with +Pet effects to boost my Automaton for soloing seals -- or anything else. This job needs some major help, its my favorite and it feels useless/depressing to change to it most of the time, and I'd very much like to see ANYTHING changed to it at this point.

Being able to make myself a few sets of dual-wieldable +Pet weapons would be a welcome project, and something I could actually do while ON the job...

[Zagen]

I'll trade my BST's off hand pet axes (when I actually use them) for the ability to swap HP and TP with abilities...

Not that I wouldn't mind some extra Attack/Ranged Attack/Magic Attack for those few instances where I'm not doing any damage I just don't see the major appeal beyond that very small niche.

I'd rather they just buffed those h2h to double potency instead of making new weapons out right. I mean look at the atk/ratk you're asking to collect/buy another 110 flame geodes, maybe you're rolling in the gil but to me that's just a waste of gil not even counting the 55 from the h2h you've likely made by now.

[Horadrim]

I'll trade my BST's off hand pet axes (when I actually use them) for the ability to swap HP and TP with abilities...

Not that I wouldn't mind some extra Attack/Ranged Attack/Magic Attack for those few instances where I'm not doing any damage I just don't see the major appeal beyond that very small niche.

I'd rather they just buffed those h2h to double potency instead of making new weapons out right. I mean look at the atk/ratk you're asking to collect/buy another 110 flame geodes, maybe you're rolling in the gil but to me that's just a waste of gil not even counting the 55 from the h2h you've likely made by now.

I'd really just like to be able to go and do anything on this freaking job. :/

[Zagen]

I'd really just like to be able to go and do anything on this freaking job. :/
Like what?

Salvage (I just soloed Bhalfau with a boss clear even after screwing up the gears)?
Do Dynamis with almost 0 competition ever allowing you to avoid ja overcrowding?
Solo Abyssea NMs?


PUP can do all that already on par with BST and SMN and in some cases much better. Don't get me wrong I believe the job needs a boost however I don't see how slightly increasing the puppet's damage potential at the cost of the master's damage potential would be a step in the right direction.

[Demon6324236]

The simple way to solve this problem would be ToM Animators which give half the stats of their weapon counterparts. This would allow for animators which make up the difference between PUP and other jobs that can swap out ammos because the animator would provide that stat bonus and the advantage is they would still be your basic H2H job but with animators able to provide additional things like Pet PDT which BST gets more of from their DW Axes.

[Horadrim]

Like what?

Salvage (I just soloed Bhalfau with a boss clear even after screwing up the gears)?
Do Dynamis with almost 0 competition ever allowing you to avoid ja overcrowding?
Solo Abyssea NMs?


PUP can do all that already on par with BST and SMN and in some cases much better. Don't get me wrong I believe the job needs a boost however I don't see how slightly increasing the puppet's damage potential at the cost of the master's damage potential would be a step in the right direction.

I meant I'd like to not have to dump all of my gear out of my inventory to go to an event -- PUP feels like a novelty hat you put on when you're bored at a bar with no one one to talk to, but that you have to take off as soon as anyone looks at you. It's really annoying considering I invested tons of time and effort into not only getting all of the attachments, but keeping my automaton properly skilled and trying to keep up with gear trends (until I quit.)

Frankly, it is one of the most involved jobs to play -- it deserves to be a lot better than it is.

[Horadrim]

The simple way to solve this problem would be ToM Animators which give half the stats of their weapon counterparts. This would allow for animators which make up the difference between PUP and other jobs that can swap out ammos because the animator would provide that stat bonus and the advantage is they would still be your basic H2H job but with animators able to provide additional things like Pet PDT which BST gets more of from their DW Axes.

I'd take that.

I'd take anything at this point... I'd just like my favorite job to be one I actually felt like I had a reason to play... My gimp, FC'd Samurai gets more action than my PUP who I invested years of time and effort into pre-Abyssea...

[Nezha]

Frankly, it is one of the most involved jobs to play...

This is exactly why I love it. It is overall the best job in the game because it can do absolutely everything: DD, Tank, Nuke, Heal, and most importantly it can solo, making it better than the majority of melee classes for me.

But don't give up, keep playing it, becoming better, improving gear (make tons of gear sets!) and pet switching techniques... It took me a long time and attempted solo of Pandemonium Warden to finally get recognition, but it is what I am known for on Fenrir, and i come PUP to any and every event and in fact by request! So hang in there! I wish you the best of luck because Puppetmaster is awesome! In all honesty, I think SE purposely makes this job difficult to gear, because when geared properly it is best job in the game! Also, a lot of mage gear is actually really good for /RDM and /SCH which our imo are really good solo subjobs, depending on the situation!

[Demon6324236]

This is exactly why I love it. It is overall the best job in the game because it can do absolutely everything: DD, Tank, Nuke, Heal, and most importantly it can solo, making it better than the majority of melee classes for me.I wouldn't go so far as to say it is the best job in the game, RDM can do all of that as well, and in some cases, better, so I would say it is great, but not necessary the best, I think no job is really the best.

[Zagen]

I do like the animator idea as it leaves weapons unaffected for times when I want my puppet to do more without hurting my damage.


PUP feels like a novelty hat you put on when you're bored at a bar with no one one to talk to, but that you have to take off as soon as anyone looks at you.
I wear my jester's cap proud at the bar even when talking to the ladies, it's a nice ice breaker.


It's really annoying considering I invested tons of time and effort into not only getting all of the attachments, but keeping my automaton properly skilled and trying to keep up with gear trends (until I quit.)

Frankly, it is one of the most involved jobs to play -- it deserves to be a lot better than it is.
I agree it deserves better. I'm with Nezha I love the fact it's so involved.

[Nezha]

I wouldn't go so far as to say it is the best job in the game, RDM can do all of that as well, and in some cases, better, so I would say it is great, but not necessary the best, I think no job is really the best.

I did try to make it clear that it was my opinion just in case that was missed. RDM is great, but it is one where PUP is two so this circumvents spell interuption when solo tanking, DDing, nuking, healing... Futhermore it is versitile but not as much as PUP can be for this reason, and it doesn't get tier V+ cures and nukes, the amount of PDT and shield block rate possible with Valoredge or the DD capabilty of ranger, let alone combined with the master. So technically it is subpar in all these regards respectly until you factor in that Automaton's AI isn't perfect where as a RDM player can react instantly to a situation.... But thats where skill comes in... So on paper PUP, again in my opinion, is the best job in the game... In practice that depends on skill, experience, and armor.

RDM was actually my favorite job before PUP was introduced, but the main thing it excels in and had going for it: Enfeebling Magic, was made obsolete on difficult mobs relevent for furthering ones self in-game. Immunobreaks was a step in the right direction, but RDM are far from what they used to be in the time of Avesta.

[Nezha]

Also I think when comparing the all around ability of a job the best measure is how well it is able to solo, because you will have to employ everything against a difficult mob. For that reason when it comes to best all-arounder many status quo DDs and mages get nixed from the competition. But in practice for a specific role, PUP is definitely not the best DD, best healer, best nuker, or best tank, because it isn't intrinsically given the job traits and abilities to do so, so we make up for it with armor, subjob cominations, skill, and our automatons. But I can say with certainty that no other job can do all the things previously mentioned quite the way we can.

[Horadrim]

Update:

So I spent the last 4 Days GRINDING the hell out of PUP to get my authentically leveled PUP75 (which has been PUP90 up until earlier last week) on par with my perfectionism.

I can definitely feel the improvements that were made to the job that I wasn't aware of, but I have to say -- I'm also starting to realize a major problem I have with Puppetmaster's focus on Hand-to-Hand.

First things first -- I grabbed two +4 Damage, +4 Stun Resist, +5 Crit Damage Yataghans using Dominion Notes and started skilling up my dagger skill so I could solo farm my AF Feet (which I have 8 seals for). I have to wonder, why the hell does Puppetmaster not get Evisceration and Exenterator when BEASTMASTER does? Puppetmaster, outside of dagger skill and club, has no access to elemental weapon skills and I have to solo farm my Empy feet -- I understand those weapon skills maybe not fall within the realm of what I need, but I can't help but wonder why we are screwed out of so many of the WS's for our ONLY secondary weapon type. I'm not sure why PUP isn't included as a sub class of dagger yet BST is when they already have 2 other weapons they can yield pretty effectively. (BST A- / B- / C+ vs. PUP B+ / C-)

Additionally, that idea of a magian animator is really ringing in my head. That second +20 EVA / +Pet stat piece of gear would be damn nice.

[Dreamin]

If you can't solo farm the simple AF feet, you're completely doing something wrong...extremely wrong.

[Horadrim]

If you can't solo farm the simple AF feet, you're completely doing something wrong...extremely wrong.

I didn't say I /can't/ do it... Thanks for trying to hype yourself up though, I'm sure you needed the ego boost.

EDIT:

FYI, I was basically AFK'ing while skilling up yesterday -- I've no problem with farming them, I'm just trying to get my dagger skill up to the point where its faster. My ability to solo them isn't in question, I was commenting on the weirdness of the fact tat PUP barely has a secondary weapon type.

[Zagen]

FYI, I was basically AFK'ing while skilling up yesterday -- I've no problem with farming them, I'm just trying to get my dagger skill up to the point where its faster. My ability to solo them isn't in question, I was commenting on the weirdness of the fact tat PUP barely has a secondary weapon type.

How is it weird? Heck the only jobs I can think of that gain significantly from using a 2nd rate weapon (in terms of skill) are WAR, DRK, and SAM (not counting relic bow). All because of a merit WS and only in certain situations.

Also an alternative to Aeolian Edge is Flash Nova which PUP/WAR would have at 92 with capped club skill. You can't boost it's damage as high as you can with A.Edge but it is an alternative.

Something to note that there is a "Catch 22" with farming base feet: The higher your Amber the more gold chests you get but that also means the more possible things can load in the chests.

[Dreamin]

I didn't say I /can't/ do it... Thanks for trying to hype yourself up though, I'm sure you needed the ego boost.

EDIT:

FYI, I was basically AFK'ing while skilling up yesterday -- I've no problem with farming them, I'm just trying to get my dagger skill up to the point where its faster. My ability to solo them isn't in question, I was commenting on the weirdness of the fact tat PUP barely has a secondary weapon type.

I dont understands at all why would you want to use daggers instead of H2H. Please dont say for lights...

[Horadrim]

How is it weird? Heck the only jobs I can think of that gain significantly from using a 2nd rate weapon (in terms of skill) are WAR, DRK, and SAM (not counting relic bow). All because of a merit WS and only in certain situations.

Also an alternative to Aeolian Edge is Flash Nova which PUP/WAR would have at 92 with capped club skill. You can't boost it's damage as high as you can with A.Edge but it is an alternative.

Something to note that there is a "Catch 22" with farming base feet: The higher your Amber the more gold chests you get but that also means the more possible things can load in the chests.

So what's the optimal numbers for farming feet? Amber 120 is what someone told me? Amber 120 and capped pearl.

I understand that most jobs don't have effective secondary weapons, and that's fine, I just meant that I don't understand why BST has C+ and gets largely unique WS's where PUP doesn't. I don't know a single BST who actively uses Dagger for anything, except maybe Twilight for TP gain. Just seems weird when you consider H2H and Dagger are our only real skills (again, we get club, but meh).

I mean, it doesn't matter in the long run, it just kind of made me raise a brow. I wouldn't want PUP to be DNC, THF tier, but I don't see why we couldn't at least get a on a few of the other WSs. Just for variety's sake.


Meanwhile -- I don't understand why more jobs don't have alternative weapon types to begin with, but that's a whole other conversation.

[Zagen]

So what's the optimal numbers for farming feet? Amber 120 is what someone told me? Amber 120 and capped pearl.
The "real" answer is 0. The reason that's the real answer is base feet are an option at the beginning meaning you could get them without farming amber. If you're fine with burning stones then this actually might be a viable option.

That said you won't get more gold boxes over others if you go that route, all you're doing is ensuring the ones you do get have the best odds of having feet in them. The "perfect" numbers depends on the Abyssite you have (I'd mention zone too but that's irrelevant in this case).

For me when soloing the best numbers to be: Pearl capped, Azure 128, Amber 100 (as mentioned might vary based on Abyssite). This would give me enough Azure to have max potency to get TEs to stay in zone, and Amber was high enough to see a decent amount of gold boxes but not high enough to get KI or strongest temps (revits/megalixir/etc) from the chests.

[Marada]

Here's an idea for SE to make at least one H2H elemental WS as a sort of fun thing for people to remember G Gundam......

WS fire based: "Burning Fingers" and have the macro /sh "Take my love, my anger, and all of my sorrow." Just before it.

[Horadrim]

I dont understands at all why would you want to use daggers instead of H2H. Please dont say for lights...

I like options.

Better?


The "real" answer is 0. The reason that's the real answer is base feet are an option at the beginning meaning you could get them without farming amber. If you're fine with burning stones then this actually might be a viable option.

That said you won't get more gold boxes over others if you go that route, all you're doing is ensuring the ones you do get have the best odds of having feet in them. The "perfect" numbers depends on the Abyssite you have (I'd mention zone too but that's irrelevant in this case).

For me when soloing the best numbers to be: Pearl capped, Azure 128, Amber 100 (as mentioned might vary based on Abyssite). This would give me enough Azure to have max potency to get TEs to stay in zone, and Amber was high enough to see a decent amount of gold boxes but not high enough to get KI or strongest temps (revits/megalixir/etc) from the chests.

You know what's funny?

Still haven't gotten these -- but kind of focusing on RUN right now so I barely care... Hopefully I manage to pick them (like I did SCH, SAM, BLU, and DRG >_>) while skilling up.