Can I get a higher tier Cure?

[Rocl]

Pleeeeeeease. I hate having to level WHM to play a healer! I guess, if the focus moves outside Abyssea it might change, but man, c'mon. ;;

[Fievel]

No, you may not.

That would just make white mage obsolete again.

[Septimus]

No, you may not.

That would just make white mage obsolete again.

Because Regen IV, Cure VI, Raise III, Cureskin, capped Cure potency, quick and easy removal of status effects, top-tier bar-spells, Sacrifice, and Repose don't exist.

It is no contest between WHM, RDM, and SCH when it comes to top-tier healing abilities, as someone who has all three of them at 90, I think that WHM could spare Cure V and still be fairly awesome.

[Eric]

I agree. Cure V wouldn't kill WHMs! Make it only usable under addendum: white if you have to!

[Volkaru]

With the increased need for enmity control these days cure IV isn't cutting it for any of the jobs that play healer a lot.
Please at least give SCH a cure V. It is something everyone has been wanting and needing since Abyssea came out.

[Jullias]

OMG please please give us a higher tier cure, i feel like sch atm is a little lost in the middle D:

[Agarak]

Yeah! It´s not fun to throw in a cure after almost each enamy attack landed. After 2-3 cure IV I get hate and when the tank can´t get it back in time everyone have to run for his life. Of course WHM should still be the non-plus-ultra healing-wise but giving SCH and RDM Cure V wont break it. There are so many other things where WHM exceeds.

[Draylo]

Because Regen IV, Cure VI, Raise III, Cureskin, capped Cure potency, quick and easy removal of status effects, top-tier bar-spells, Sacrifice, and Repose don't exist.

It is no contest between WHM, RDM, and SCH when it comes to top-tier healing abilities, as someone who has all three of them at 90, I think that WHM could spare Cure V and still be fairly awesome.

Regen IV > Useless when you can spam heals with no regards to MP.

Raise III > Useless when exp's value is at a record low. Who cares when you can regain that in 20 seconds?

Capped Cure Potency > RDM and SCH can already reach very high levels, around 35% (Magian staff 22%, serp set 5%, shantotto legs 5%, moogle exp hat 3%) I am sure more items will be added as well. Difference of 15% cure potency, not too huge of a gap.

Sacrifice > Rarely ever used... especially due to speed of stat removals

Status removal> SCH can do this already and rdm can too if sub whm.

Repose > Fairly useless, not many mobs resist dark based sleep that you will always fight.

I personally think giving SCH cure5 is fine, but RDM would overshadow WHM again pretty easily. Capped fast cast/recast timer on a Cure5 from a RDM ontop of its utility with Slow/para/dia3 would shadow WHM again.

[Ninian]

Enmity generation should really be the least of your concerns. SCH has access to a plethora of -Enmity gear if it so chooses. The only reason SCH should gain access to Cure V is to have a more potent cure that they can alternate with IV.



Sacrifice > Rarely ever used... especially due to speed of stat removals

It's still the only ability that removes Zombie/ST-20.

[Draylo]

How many mobs in the game even have that status affliction? It isn't terribly useful was my point.

[Ninian]

How many mobs in the game even have that status affliction? It isn't terribly useful was my point.

Two off the top of my head that can actually have the status removed. Not incredibly useful unless more mobs in the future have that ability~ It was still an oversight.

[Yukichibi]

Cure V is not really needed in abyssea, at least to bomb cure 1 Tank (usually a mnk or thf), you can do it without it as a sch but you need skill (statagems, sch specifics spells) and stuff (korin obi + aurorastorm, cure potency, enmity -) where whm just need his cure spells.
IMO, the thing that makes the real difference is cureskin and whm capacity to heal more than 1 people without tanking a lot enmity (cure V + VI).

[Tezz]

I don't care too much for higher Cure. Maybe a higher Cure tier that also add's regen on cure (to be unique).
SE, please just take us outside abyssea once again and all should be fine.

[Radio]

Scholar has the means to make their Cure IV's extremely potent as it is and we're also able to mess around with the enmity it gives so I think a giving us Cure V could in some ways over shadow White Mage. Perhaps if it is accessible through Addendum: White and only able to be used with Penury and Alacrity (not Rapture or Accession D: as it is currently) maybe it would be presented to our spell list without unbalancing what seems to be the white mages' healing niche.

[Hiroshiko]

I'm a bit on the fence about giving SCH (and probably RDM) a higher tier Cure. I play both WHM and SCH, so personally I can attest to the fact that inside Abyssea Cure IV is usually not enough for larger NMs. However, outside Abyssea (there are things to do outside :P) Cure VI is overkill. There would need to be a way to balance Cures so that jobs are not overshadowed inside and outside. Cure V plays a happy medium since it's very low enmity and the MP cost isn't ridiculous, but would it tip the balance if SCH and RDM had access to it? Personally, I think the Cure formula needs to be revamped so that Healing Magic skill has more of an effect than it does now, in addition to making skill ups easier.

[Sotek]

SCH with Cure V would be somewhat overpowered (iirc with correct gear/etc SCH Cure V would beat WHM Cure VI), considering it gains less enmity than Cure IV.
Just change Cure V and VI to having regular enmity gain (as in more than Cure VIs) and slap a Job Trait on WHM that reduces Cure Enmity gain and I'd have no problems with SCH (and even RDM) getting Cure V.

[Kegsay]

Well, hate for Cure V in particular differently than other cures, giving 400CE and 700VE static, regardless of how much you cure for.

For 'game balance', you could easily remove this static amount so Cure V for SCH works on a normal basis. Cure calcs on a target of Lv75 were:

CE = 40/55 * HP Cured
VE = 240/55 * HP Cured

So assuming Cure V does roughly 900 HP, that would be CE=654 VE=3927, which is an enormous amount, but would definitely promote the use of Enmity- gear.

[Kasandaro]

Scholar has the means to make their Cure IV's extremely potent as it is and we're also able to mess around with the enmity it gives so I think a giving us Cure V could in some ways over shadow White Mage. Perhaps if it is accessible through Addendum: White and only able to be used with Penury and Alacrity (not Rapture or Accession D: as it is currently) maybe it would be presented to our spell list without unbalancing what seems to be the white mages' healing niche.

Some thoughts. Going by what I use in Abyssea, my Cure IVs will do 614 (once I finish Surya's +2). Every 48s, I can push that to 982 with Rapture (once I finish the Hat +2). But I don't have a spell to alternate with, if I'm needing to bomb, especially after an AoE.

My WHM can shellac out Cure Vs for 1000+ every 6s. And can alternate that with Cure IV and Cure VI*, as well as Cura II, Curaga II, III, and IV.

And it's not even enmity that's the issue to me. WHM Curespam is ridic low on enmity, because of the way V and VI work and the stupid amount of -enm WHM gets (on top of MM). But they will still eventually get to the top of the hate list. SCH, if they're bending their curve with Augeo, Minuo, and -enm gear, doesn't take notably faster to get there. Abyssea fights are either over so fast, enmity's not an issue, or they're so long that everyone's going to have capped CE.

I think that's what bothers me - the lack of an "ohsh" button. There's many times in Abyssea (exp parties, farming) that SCH is fine, is enough. But there are so many mobs that are capable of dropping ridiculous amounts of damage that SCH really can't keep up with normal HP, let alone on a tank with 4000+ HP. We're still fine outside of Abyssea, but inside, we really don't have an panic button, while WHM has, what, six?

(We're still better off than RDM, though.)

Maybe give us an ability like Addendum (called Apocrypha?) that adds more spells to the Grimoire, but it's only active for a single cast (or more, with high merits).

*wasteful spell - hp/mp is worse than Cure II at this point, and I haven't heard of anyone finding a hard cap yet.

[Raksha]

Some thoughts. Going by what I use in Abyssea, my Cure IVs will do 614 (once I finish Surya's +2). Every 48s, I can push that to 982 with Rapture (once I finish the Hat +2). But I don't have a spell to alternate with, if I'm needing to bomb, especially after an AoE.

My WHM can shellac out Cure Vs for 1000+ every 6s. And can alternate that with Cure IV and Cure VI*, as well as Cura II, Curaga II, III, and IV.

And it's not even enmity that's the issue to me. WHM Curespam is ridic low on enmity, because of the way V and VI work and the stupid amount of -enm WHM gets (on top of MM). But they will still eventually get to the top of the hate list. SCH, if they're bending their curve with Augeo, Minuo, and -enm gear, doesn't take notably faster to get there. Abyssea fights are either over so fast, enmity's not an issue, or they're so long that everyone's going to have capped CE.

I think that's what bothers me - the lack of an "ohsh" button. There's many times in Abyssea (exp parties, farming) that SCH is fine, is enough. But there are so many mobs that are capable of dropping ridiculous amounts of damage that SCH really can't keep up with normal HP, let alone on a tank with 4000+ HP. We're still fine outside of Abyssea, but inside, we really don't have an panic button, while WHM has, what, six?

(We're still better off than RDM, though.)

Maybe give us an ability like Addendum (called Apocrypha?) that adds more spells to the Grimoire, but it's only active for a single cast (or more, with high merits).

*wasteful spell - hp/mp is worse than Cure II at this point, and I haven't heard of anyone finding a hard cap yet.


Even outside abyssea in events like dynamis i can feel the utility of cure4 waning, inside abyssea it's no contest: you need a decent 2nd cure to alternate spam. even with buttloads of fastcast atma i can't do back-to-back cure4s (and dont get me started on cure3)

[Myew]

I think the main point to consider is that even a DNC is a better healer than a SCH or RDM right now. SCH needs the overage of HP return to be useful against most end-game NMs. As is, we are only passable to do xp party cures.

[Tezz]

I want a new Cure spell (similar to Cure V) that is also a HOT(healing over time) spell. Also with each tick it could reduce or increase enmity if the player has Minuo or Augeo cast on them.

[Kasandaro]

Okay, had a thought. Yes, a HoT would be interesting, something helix-like - it's called Regen. Regen III is awesome, but usually if I'm having to curebomb, it doesn't work fast enough. (And I'm tired of whiny dd complaining that they're in yellow.) Maybe make Regen's potency sensitive to Enhancing skill (all three jobs with it natively benefit) - leave the base value the same, but give potency for skill over 300?

Also, maybe a spell (and I'm ripping straight out of Guild Wars here: Dwayna's Kiss (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Dwayna%27s_Kiss)) that heals more based on the number of buffs on the target character, since when we're in Light Arts, we really are all about the protections.

(If it were the hols, I'd want something like Reversal of Fortune (http://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Reversal_of_fortune), which inverts the next damage taken...but I'm not holding my breath.)

[Sasaraixx]

If the end game content for the duration of the game is going to be in Abyssea or Abyssea-like situations, then yes I do believe both SCH and RDM need a higher tier healing spell.

I play all 3 jobs (SCH WHM RDM) and while I want WHM to remain the indisputable best healer, I don't like the fact that SCH and RDM are completely crippled on most difficult mobs in Abyssea.

I believe the easiest way to achieve this is simply to introduce a new spell. Call it Curasa. It should heal for an amount somewhere between Cure IV and Cure V. Let's say about 800-850 with a good cure potency set. It would not have the unique enmity calculation that Cure V. The devs could get very creative and give it a Solace like short duration buff like Phalanx or MDB (which would stack with the normal buffs). WHM would of course also have access to the spell.

With all of SCH and RDMs stratagems, enfeebles and defensive buffs the addition of this spell would make main healing a single tank on difficult NM's doable. They would just have to work harder for it than a WHM and might need the support of a SMN, BLU, DNC, BLM or PUP. WHM would still be much better healer over all.

[Vermail]

SCH can already easily outnuke a BLM and solo a SC on top of that. If SCH is going to out cure a WHM and out nuke a BLM, would be the point of leveling any other mage (except RDM)? Also, when this abyssea era is over, I think Cure VI will not be as useful as it is in abyssea. It's nearly double the MP cost of Cure V and only cures 500 more HP.

[Sasaraixx]

SCH can already easily outnuke a BLM and solo a SC on top of that.

It is not nearly that simple. Not since Abyssea came out. SCH's main advantage over BLM was MP efficiency. Refresh Atmas, /RDM and Cruor buffs allow BLMs to keep up now. If the mob is aspirable it is even closer. Atma of the Beyond also gives BLM an edge. BLM has access to a lot more Blizzard spells than SCH has. BLM's can also ga-farm, which is something SCH cannot do. BLM brings a lot more to the table than you are giving it credit for. SCH can no longer 'easily outnuke' a BLM. Even RDM is giving SCH competition in the nuking department now because SCH has not learned Blizzard V yet. Immanence is a nice addition, but you have to think about how often you are going to get off un-interrupted SC's and how many stratagems you're using. . . And this doesn't even take into consideration triggering yellow weaknesses, which is an area BLM has the clear advantage.


If SCH is going to out cure a WHM and out nuke a BLM, would be the point of leveling any other mage

Who said anything about SCH out-curing a WHM? You are being over dramatic. The plain and simple fact is that neither SCH nor RDM can main heal most of the HNMs in Abyssea. Some of us would like to be a passable healer in some circumstances. Now it's not even an option. No one wants to heal as well as a WHM. Like I said, if content is going to move away from Abyssea and 4000 HP tanks, then the additional cure spell won't be necessary.

[Siiri]

So you don't want a scholar to out cure a white mage, but it is ok to out nuke a black mage? What is the difference? The mere fact that you have to even mention atmas to show a black mage "keeping up" is evidence scholar needs to have its dark arts nerfed, not added onto. Black mage exist to nuke, scholar is a strategist with several functions. Scholar's job isn't to out damage the specialist in elemental damage. The developers have said they are going to try to balance the jobs, not further over power a job like Scholar when its in dark arts.

[Rambus]

So you don't want a scholar to out cure a white mage, but it is ok to out nuke a black mage? What is the difference? The mere fact that you have to even mention atmas to show a black mage "keeping up" is evidence scholar needs to have its dark arts nerfed, not added onto. Black mage exist to nuke, scholar is a strategist with several functions. Scholar's job isn't to out damage the specialist in elemental damage. The developers have said they are going to try to balance the jobs, not further over power a job like Scholar when its in dark arts.

who said anything about a SCH outnuking a BLM? he said:

RDM is giving SCH competition in the nuking department now because SCH has not learned Blizzard V yet

He said that because RDM has blizzard IV and they can cast blizzard IV freely.

point is cure IV is pointless when people have 3-4k hp cure IV is also pointless as a main mage when anything can sub cure IV, thats not progress, saying that PLD RDM SCH should not get cure V or a higher level cure means your mind is still stuck at 75.

anther way around it is let healing magic mean something so a main job using cure IV puts sub cure IV to shame

[Tsukino_Kaji]

SCH needs to be nerfed anyway, it's supposed to be rdm powered and all around, not do everything as well as a WHM and BLM.

point is cure IV is pointless when people have 3-4k hp cure IV is also pointless as a main mage when anything can sub cure IV, thats not progress, saying that PLD RDM SCH should not get cure V or a higher level cure means your mind is still stuck at 75.SCH is not a whm, if you want a healer, get a WHM.
Or a SCH that's better at his job. lol

[Kasandaro]

SCH needs to be nerfed anyway, it's supposed to be rdm powered and all around, not do everything as well as a WHM and BLM.

It doesn't, anymore, especially in Abyssea. It always had more nuking ability than RDM - but it has much less melee power, to balance.


SCH is not a whm, if you want a healer, get a WHM.
Or a SCH that's better at his job. lol

The problem being is that the extreme HP pools have eliminated the effectiveness of SCH, RDM, and DNC - all of which have significant access to healing effects - against a notable range of NMs. Depending on the tank, a SCH does not have the tools to keep up with the DoT on a PC that has 4000+ HP, let alone 5 or more of such PCs. This is regardless of how good s/he is at the job. That's what many people are objecting to, that we're back in the situation where there aren't four healing classes to choose from for endgame situations - there's only one.

[Miiyo]

SCH is perfect as it is as of the last update. I think it's one of the most balanced jobs in the game.

[Rambus]

The problem being is that the extreme HP pools have eliminated the effectiveness of SCH, RDM, and DNC - all of which have significant access to healing effects - against a notable range of NMs. Depending on the tank, a SCH does not have the tools to keep up with the DoT on a PC that has 4000+ HP, let alone 5 or more of such PCs. This is regardless of how good s/he is at the job. That's what many people are objecting to, that we're back in the situation where there aren't four healing classes to choose from for endgame situations - there's only one.

This, if your healing as a rdm or SCH it is a backup or help to get a cure IV while the whm is cure VI and cure V.

cure IV does not cut it with the HP amount in abyssea.

then you have to consider any /whm or /rdm at 99 gets the same cure we do as a main, that isnt balance ether. you can't have a sub = main for anything, and that was NEVER the case at 75.

now at 90 you have job triats and such that can be stronger off subs like DW for thf and BLU. ever since game past 75 it was getting more and more out of balance.

[hideka]

No, you may not.

That would just make white mage obsolete again.

no. no it would not.
Level1 : cure
Level11: cure II
level21: cure III
level 41: cure VI
level 61: Cure V
leve80: Cure VI
level 99: will more then likely give you cure 7, or the most MP/enmity effecient heal in the game.
SE learned its lesson from the past 7 years of not giving whm adequate power, they will properly balance it. giving SCH C5, and RDM C5 will NOT hurt whm AT ALL. Whms bonuses to healing far outweigh anything that SCH and RDM could do. i mean LITTERALY i can get on drk/WHM, load up healer gear and atmas, and heal on par with SCH and RDM.

[Sotek]

Cure V with proper enmity gain would be perfectly balanced. White Mage would still be able to main heal indefinitely, while Scholar (and Red Mage) would have a powerful enough cure to bring them back up to standard that they can't just spam as White Mage does. There's a pretty large difference between healing for 1k+ constantly with no enmity worries and casting 4 Cure Vs and getting raped by the mob. If anything it would reinforce Scholars role as enmity controller as well, which it's in dire need of since Libra and Animus come across more as jokes at the moment. I might ever put merits in Tranquility since it would actually have a viable purpose with a high enmity high cure (without rapture) spell.

I'm not going to pretend Scholar needs Cure V though. I've main healed fine with just Cure IV (on +2 item dropping NMs before you ask) plenty of times, it's hardly as impossible as some people are making it out to be. Enmity was even a worry for me then with just Cure IVs enmity, though. Cure V would be nothing more than a safety net. If I'm damn near close to pulling hate main healing with Cure IV, there's no way in hell I'd spam a cure with higher enmity gain like White Mage does with Cure V. It would be nothing more than a slight boost to our healing power which would never replace White Mages ability to spam Cure V/VI constantly without worrying about hate.

[hideka]

yea, i think your forgetting divine benison. whm as at all times -50% enmity when under the effects of minikin monstrosity and allure. if enmity- doesnt cap at 50%, you can reach as high as -90% enmity through gear and benison.

[Mirukuu]

I think it was said by a few but really, if you want access to excellent healing spells, you need to use WHM. If not for the differences between jobs, they would all be the same job - there needs to be difference. The idea of the scholar (in game) is that they are a tactician that applies magic in strategic ways to gain advantage and not so much they can pull off the most impressive spells from the different schools of magic.

[Michae]

I would love Cure V for sch, I have been main heal for alot and if it werent for some crafty macros to boost cures I would have not been able to do my job well enough. I think the lack of high tier cures is what give sch a bad rep

[Kasandaro]

yea, i think your forgetting divine benison. whm as at all times -50% enmity when under the effects of minikin monstrosity and allure. if enmity- doesnt cap at 50%, you can reach as high as -90% enmity through gear and benison.

Off-topic, but where's the testing that Benison is a flat emnity down on all spells, not just status-removals? The cast time reduction doesn't affect cures, I can tell you that for certain.

[Sonshou]

Having a higher tier cure does not necessary mean having cure 5. but I do agree a higher tier heal is most desired as level cap is pushing up.

I think it is easier for SE to create a new spell which is cure 5 equivalent, without the enmity adjustment. And allow both WHM RDM PLD and SCH access to it. No one will say WHM shouldn't have two cure 5 equivalent spell, it is their characteristic and specialty. At the same time satisfly need for SCH RDM PLD to have a higher tier Cure spell.

[Sotek]

Having a higher tier cure does not necessary mean having cure 5. but I do agree a higher tier heal is most desired as level cap is pushing up.

I think it is easier for SE to create a new spell which is cure 5 equivalent, without the enmity adjustment. And allow both WHM RDM PLD and SCH access to it. No one will say WHM shouldn't have two cure 5 equivalent spell, it is their characteristic and specialty. At the same time satisfly need for SCH RDM PLD to have a higher tier Cure spell.

What would they call it? >_>
Seems like a much more logical idea to just remove the enmity effect from Cure V and VI and just toss a Job Trait on White Mage that does the equivalent, if they can't just have it so Red Mage and Scholar just have access to Cure V without the enmity effect altogether (I'm sure they've done something similar in the past).

[Sasaraixx]

who said anything about a SCH outnuking a BLM? he said:


He said that because RDM has blizzard IV and they can cast blizzard IV freely.

point is cure IV is pointless when people have 3-4k hp cure IV is also pointless as a main mage when anything can sub cure IV, thats not progress, saying that PLD RDM SCH should not get cure V or a higher level cure means your mind is still stuck at 75.

anther way around it is let healing magic mean something so a main job using cure IV puts sub cure IV to shame

I just wanted to say thank you. Some people don't actually read others' posts.

And I completely agree with you. I think that because of the current HP pool of tanks in Abyssea as well as the ease with with other jobs can cure via subjob, that something should be done to boost the healing capability of SCH RDM and even PLD. There are 2 ways to do this in my opinion.

The first would require the most drastic changes. SE could remove the enmity bonuses from Cure V and VI and allow the other healing magic jobs in the game to learn them as they level to 99. To compensate for this, WHM should get a Job Trait that reduces enmity on all healing spells. The trait should be more potent for the higher tier cures in order to put WHM right back where they were before the change. I do believe Cure VI should remain WHM only, but I can see RDM learning cure V at lv 80 and SCH and PLD learning it at lv87.

The other solution is to just create a new cure spell as I suggested in my other post. Call it Curasa. The dev team can balance the spell as the see fit.

But as I said before, if the remainder of new content is not going to allow us to have Abyssea like stats then this change probably won't be necessary.

[Babygyrl]

i would like to see rdms get cure V as well.. i never get to play rdm now.. always whm..