New Beliefs toward Job Roles for Adoulin society: Elite Job Factions

[kingfury]

I'm of course excited about Adoulin like everyone else, but the recent religion topic sparked a thought. Not thoughts necessarily about religion, but rather about passionate groups within FFXI. When Aht Urhgan came out years ago, there was tons of new content available to experience and explore but there was an aspect that stood out to me; Blue Mages had their own special club called "the Immortals (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Immortal_Lions)". Even cooler than that, when unlocking the Blue mage job, they slid in a subtle challenge that if you worked hard enough at being a blue mage, you may be worthy enough to join it's ranks (though the challenge is not an actual one since you really can't "join" the Immortals). While the job itself is awesome to play, this made me wonder why no other job classes had elite factions apart from the standard class that had their own passionate beliefs that either supported their founding roles or opposed them.

Now while this example is perfect for setting the tone for this topic, this thread still poses a question to the DEV team; Can we FFXI players join elite job factions in game?

Using the Immortals as a template, there would be in-game npc's that would be the quest givers for us in order to prove our worth. A series of quests (and some tough notorious monster bosses) later, we would gain membership into the beginner ranks of the elite group. As a means of incentive we would have to continue to work our way up the groups' rank ladder to gain unique job specific benefits, weapons and armor only offered through membership and high rankings of that elite group. Upon being accepted into the ranks of any job specific faction, a Signet-like icon would appear at the top of the players screen to confirm the faction benefits are active. As long as the appropriate Main job is active, the faction benefits would remain active. Perhaps offering the player the ability to toggle the effects on and off would be helpful should they wish to do so.

I suppose this would be similar to how the current Nation rank system function but tweaking it for job specific benefits. Earning gil by completing quests given by these factions would also be a big plus(this could finally offer a "Day Job" system for players to earn daily income from actual job faction leaders). For more job specific examples:

Imagine if there was a White Mage elite faction that specialize in forging fighting white mages. Below are some possible gear available to high ranking members(club included):
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http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/WHMBattleArmor-WEB_zpsdef8288d.jpg

(View Larger (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/WHMBattleArmor-WEB_zpsdef8288d.jpg))
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Elite Faction name: Searing Hammers
Faction home base: Adoulin City
Faction belief: To create the perfect blend of melee, healing magic, and destructive divine magic. Wants to change the belief that WHM's are frail paper dolls.
Some possible job specific benefits from aligning with this elite faction could be: enhanced STR, DEF, Attack, -Physical Damage taken, and increases in Divine Magic damage.
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Another example could be a Dark Knight elite faction that specialized in being noble, protecting weaker folks daily. Possible gear examples below:
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http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/DRKArmor-White-WEB_zpsb8a14c54.jpg

(View Larger (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/DRKArmor-White-WEB_zpsb8a14c54.jpg))
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Elite Faction name: Shadowing Lights
Faction home base: Adoulin City
Faction belief: Dark Knights that want to shed their "Dark" persona's and walk in the warm affections of society. They wear white instead of black to visually convey their change of alignment and consume themselves with seeking out those in need of protection and saving.
Some possible job specific benefits from aligning with this elite faction could be:
enhanced DEF, -Physical Damage taken, enhanced parrying, enhanced effects on drain spells that involve defensive stats
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My examples are of elite factions that are opposed to their founding job visions but there of course could be factions that are overly in line with them. This could be another deeper level of game immersion and new and unique source for job pride to FFXI. I suppose at the very least, there could be two factions for each job; One faction that is very passionate about furthering their training towards their founding job skills, while the other could be pushing to be something different from their founding job skills.

Adoulin could be the home of such new content since it would be the perfect place to start such new radical beliefs :)

*NOTE* :Please feel free to suggest ideas about how your jobs' elite faction would be composed conceptually as I would love to add them to the original post. The more info the better (similar to the above examples) since I would be open to helping visualize the gear if you have details on how it could look. Y'know how the Devs like clear examples/details and such ;)

Player concepts from within the thread:

[Caketime]

Bonuses to strength and Attack, and armored buttflaps? Sign me up.

[Camiie]

As long as it's not limited to one "elite faction" job per character then hey why not?

[Prothscar]

You never actually get to join the Immortals, despite the fact that rather than being an Elite offshoot of Blue Mages, becoming an Immortal is a required prerequisite to becoming a Blue Mage for non-player BLUs. It's not an exclusive offshoot of the group as much as every Blue Mage is supposed to be a part of the Immortals.

[kingfury]

As long as it's not limited to one "elite faction" job per character then hey why not?
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Good point!
I would hope for a system that only requires the appropriate Main job to be dawned to receive the faction benefits. Perhaps upon gaining access into the faction's ranks, you would receive a permanent Key Item that is active whenever the player changes to the Main job aligned to that faction.

[kingfury]

You never actually get to join the Immortals, despite the fact that rather than being an Elite offshoot of Blue Mages, becoming an Immortal is a required prerequisite to becoming a Blue Mage for non-player BLUs. It's not an exclusive offshoot of the group as much as every Blue Mage is supposed to be a part of the Immortals.
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True indeed, but that's just my point; why can't we as players join the Immortals in-game?

Here's the line from the "An Empty Vessel" job quest:
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"Raubahn: Congratulations, (Player).
Welcome to the ranks of the blue mages(base job class).
Raubahn: However, at this moment you are but an empty vessel--a base creature, weaker than the most ordinary mortal.
Raubahn: A blue mage must wrest her strength and vitality from her enemies.
Raubahn: Show me your hunger for unrivaled power!
Raubahn: This is the only guidance I shall give you.
Wathdeeh: If you prove your worth, you may one day find a place among the Immortals.(group of elite blue mages)"

It teases us by alluding to the idea that a player could one day be worthy enough to join the Immortals. I say, why tease us?

[Teraniku]

As long as it's not limited to one "elite faction" job per character then hey why not?

I can agree with this, but soon instead of getting R/M/E only shouts, we'll start getting (Insert NM name Here) Elite jobs only!

[kingfury]

I can agree with this, but soon instead of getting R/M/E only shouts, we'll start getting (Insert NM name Here) Elite jobs only!
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If the rewards from gaining high ranks within these job specific factions are worth the trouble of obtaining them, then this would be no different than any other highly sought after achievement in FFXI I'm afraid.

If I had a say so in the matter, I would prefer it be a rank climb that was possible solo 90% of the way, while only maybe needing assistance with the top tier ranks which would offer some of the most valuable enhancements, gear and weapons. It's unfortunately an unavoidable factor in MMORPG's that folks want to enlist accomplished players when attempting risky battles.

[Horadrim]

snip

Did you draw that stuff...?

[kingfury]

Did you draw that stuff...?
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Yes indeedy /

[Hayward]

This seems like a decent idea along the lines of the Shining Force promotion system. I wouldn't mind working toward a High Summoner faction that makes the following improvements:

*Improved Avatar performance overall (Haste or a series of Martial Arts JT levels, Accuracy/Attack Bonuses, Absorb-Element traits, etc.)

*Accuracy/Attack Bonuses for the Summoner plus WS damage bonuses for using the appropriate Avatar (Earth Crusher+Titan, for example).

*Giving level 70 Rage BPs Level 3 Skillchain properties or granting avatars a Final Rage BP that has said Skillchain properties.

[Merton9999]

Excellent work again, Kingfury. I really look forward to your threads, especially the illustrations.

I like this idea by the way. Class evolution has been a favorite FF inclusion for me since the very first class change in Final Fantasy 1. From Cecil's maturation into a Paladin to the Tactics requirement of multiple jobs needed to unlock advanced jobs, I like how the concept has developed over the years.

A while ago there was a thread on the forum about a new merit system that would allow you to max all the new merit options, but divided them into job "specializations" that you could switch in MH, like setting your subjob. For example, a Time Mage option for Red Mage that focused on the enhancing and buffing role, or switch to a Mythic Knight to focus on melee, with a unique gear set for each specialization.

Although I like that customization/option aspect better, I'll take any class evolution of sorts. In a way the relic and empyrean gear did this by a providing a new name and look to the gear set, as well as different buffs, but that didn't go as far as you've suggested. I also like that you've included a quest line and story requirement for each job, things that were sadly missing from the relic and empyrean upgrades. Your idea of factions is a lot more interesting than just spending merit points as well.

Of course if SE were to implement a system like this it would naturally become required to be accepted in parties, but that's really the way of everything new and worthwhile. If they made the faction quests fit for duo play on the level of current seal and +2 upgrades, that would be about right for me.

[Moppet]

I always love your concept work Kingfury, and I think the idea is cool. Reminds me of prestige classes from D&D and pathfinder.

[Doombringer]

i don't think they'll have time to implement this for adoulin.


but it would be an interesting way to implement "AF4"

something about attaching it to a community is a little more interesting than just happening to find it in dyna/aby, or somehow obtaining the billionth copy of that one famous (insert job) npcs armor.

[kingfury]

Thanks much for the feedback guys /

Great suggestions Hayward on possible SMN stats. This would fit nicely with the job faction that was aligned with the job's founding visions. I've known some good friends that played SMN very well, but the only opposing role that I've heard about for SMN's was a melee SMN.

Thanks for the luv on the art Moppet m(_ _)m

Great points Merton, and I agree in regards to giving us some story over mindless grind for merits.
After all the years of loving everything about being a Warrior in FFXI, I would be among the 1st to enlist in an elite WAR faction in a heartbeat. Just envisioning the awesome WAR specific cut scenes is enough to pick up my Great Axe in anticipation for proving my metal for the world to see. Dawning faction specific gear or weapons would be a great since of pride for all players that hold passion for their jobs.

[kingfury]

i don't think they'll have time to implement this for adoulin.


but it would be an interesting way to implement "AF4"

something about attaching it to a community is a little more interesting than just happening to find it in dyna/aby, or somehow obtaining the billionth copy of that one famous (insert job) npcs armor.
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It would indeed take some deep planning and good o'l fashion story production for each job specific faction quest line. I wouldn't want to rush something like that though when it could very well be the most pertinent handful of story lines created since the Chains of Promethia epic.

[Pebe]

I think you idea is interesting however there are some loopholes. For instance SCH and DNC, moreso SCH. There is a reason you see no SCH npcs in the present. That is because (SPOILER) they were all hunted and killed when the three nations banned the grimoire iirc. The only one remaining is your mentorish guy for the lvl 70ish cap fight because he is immortal. Currently he is just chilling and pondering over the choices of the world, playing chess with the events of the world with his demon rival Bifrons. Technically once you beat him, you graduated from his "school" as his only remaining pupil. So you are pretty much the head honcho already when it comes to being a SCH. I guess you could have this organization located in the past, but that my conflict the interests of the already finished storyline. Although, before he says that you are probably his last living pupil, and the last living person to carry on the grimoire, he says that some of his comrades may have fled overseas during the sch huntings. So you might be able to jump through some loopholes but it is sketchy because it ruins your notion of being the last SCh alive.

[Demon6324236]

because it ruins your notion of being the last SCh alive.The last SCH alive, if you exclude the other hundreds of players who are the 'last SCH alive' too. Really not to cool to be the last SCH alive when you see 10 other SCHs running around every 10 minutes.

[Pebe]

We all know that when we think of story elements we exclude the other players 95% of the time Demon. What you said is like thinking, well how could I have beaten Promathia if 874578383728037082178041 players also beat him before me.

If I had to make a Elite Faction for sch it would be as such:
Name - Keepers of Antiquity
Location - Adoulin City
Lore- Survivors of "insert name of massacre event here" took refuge in the sacred city of Adoulin, unbeknownst to the Great Nations of "insert name of main continent that I forget".With support from "insert name of geomancer faction" the refuge scholars have managed to secure a foundation for research in their newly created faction, the Keepers of Antiquity. Unlike their predecessors, whose goals were the pursuit of new knowledge, the Keepers of Antiquity have dedicated themselves to recovering the lost wisdom of their slayed brothers at the end of the crystal war.
Quote from the head of the Keepers of Antiquity: "In our existence, a myriad of possible futures exist for each and everyone of us. By analyzing the mistakes of our past, the path to the most prosperous future shall be laid bare."

Edit: I'm not sure how joining this faction would change the job at all though >.>

[Demon6324236]

I was just saying that if you are saying it would ruin the feeling we are the last SCH, its not really accurate, because due to other players I never feel like I am the last SCH. As you said there is a plausible story explanation as to why some SCHs could still be around, they simply fled the mainlands. So there should be little problem with it happening. I took what you were saying as that it would ruin a players feel of being the last SCH if we found out there were more just an ocean away, I just wanted to say I could never personally feel that way because of other players.

[kingfury]

This seems like a decent idea along the lines of the Shining Force promotion system. I wouldn't mind working toward a High Summoner faction that makes the following improvements:

*Improved Avatar performance overall (Haste or a series of Martial Arts JT levels, Accuracy/Attack Bonuses, Absorb-Element traits, etc.)

*Accuracy/Attack Bonuses for the Summoner plus WS damage bonuses for using the appropriate Avatar (Earth Crusher+Titan, for example).

*Giving level 70 Rage BPs Level 3 Skillchain properties or granting avatars a Final Rage BP that has said Skillchain properties.



If I had to make a Elite Faction for sch it would be as such:
Name - Keepers of Antiquity
Location - Adoulin City
Lore- Survivors of "insert name of massacre event here" took refuge in the sacred city of Adoulin, unbeknownst to the Great Nations of "insert name of main continent that I forget".With support from "insert name of geomancer faction" the refuge scholars have managed to secure a foundation for research in their newly created faction, the Keepers of Antiquity. Unlike their predecessors, whose goals were the pursuit of new knowledge, the Keepers of Antiquity have dedicated themselves to recovering the lost wisdom of their slayed brothers at the end of the crystal war.
Quote from the head of the Keepers of Antiquity: "In our existence, a myriad of possible futures exist for each and everyone of us. By analyzing the mistakes of our past, the path to the most prosperous future shall be laid bare."

Edit: I'm not sure how joining this faction would change the job at all though >.>
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Very cool suggestions Pebe / I really dig the concept and lore (awesome spoiler, I had no clue that was the case with SCH history since I don't play the job lol).
Would either of you mind if I added these to the Original post? Also did you have any ideas as to how these faction gear sets would look? If not I could fiddle around with some concepts.

[Dohati]

***********SPOILER ALERT************
i kinda lost any desire to join to immortals when they were going to kill me because my blue magic was too powerful...
************END SPOILER*************
that said, this is a really cool way to implement an af4. i don't know about having a buff or anything just for being that job, but getting gear from plot-related quests like af1 again sounds rly fun.

EDIT: dear god please no coffers/crafted AF4... quest onry.

[Pebe]

You can add it, I don't mind. After further thought and reviewing the lvl 60 af hat quest, (SPOILER) the Keepers of Antiquity storyline will probably revolve around never letting the Blood Grimoire be summoned/used again (If you didn't know, reading the blood grimoire pretty much seals your soul inside of it. And in order to summon/use it, the countless death of others are required. The only person that actually successfully uses it is your mentor which you fight in the lvl 70 quest because well he is immortal and understands how to control it). Perhaps trying to find a way to create or more powerful Grimoire than the Blood Grimoire.

As for gear sets.... Well lets look at older sch gear sets first:
AF1 and AF2 = graduation cap and gown. So it like you graduated from high school with af1 and college with af2.
AF3 = lab coat = doing research/field work.

I really can't think of any other types of armor a scholar would wear. IMO, it would probably be a reskinned empyrean set with a few changes. Although, I'm ok with that because that set looks amazing.

[kingfury]

You can add it, I don't mind. After further thought and reviewing the lvl 60 af hat quest, (SPOILER) the Keepers of Antiquity storyline will probably revolve around never letting the Blood Grimoire be summoned/used again (If you didn't know, reading the blood grimoire pretty much seals your soul inside of it. And in order to summon/use it, the countless death of others are required. The only person that actually successfully uses it is your mentor which you fight in the lvl 70 quest because well he is immortal and understands how to control it). Perhaps trying to find a way to create or more powerful Grimoire than the Blood Grimoire.

As for gear sets.... Well lets look at older sch gear sets first:
AF1 and AF2 = graduation cap and gown. So it like you graduated from high school with af1 and college with af2.
AF3 = lab coat = doing research/field work.

I really can't think of any other types of armor a scholar would wear. IMO, it would probably be a reskinned empyrean set with a few changes. Although, I'm ok with that because that set looks amazing.
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Awesome, thanks friend/

I'll give some thought to the rest of the gear set concept beyond what you've added.

[Sparthos]

Why would we join the Immortals when as far as the lore is concerned we've superseded their power within Aht Urhgan? We're the trusted mercenary of the Empress and her personal bodyguard which at least puts us at equal standing to Captain Raubahn if you did your Assault missions.

The Immortals are presented as the super special elite fighting force of Aht Urhgan but from what we've seen much of what they do doesn't exactly square with the player which is different from say... the Mythril Musketeers, Royal Guard or War Warlocks.

The Blue Mages within the organization are all at clearly different states of mental decay ranging from the Galka in the COR AF3 who has clearly lost it right down to Amnaf who turns into a Soulflayer and gets mercy killed by Raubahn. Some of the other more "stable" Immortals are also pretty troubled and Raubahn himself seems to be trying to contain himself.

Not exactly an organization you want to be affiliated with.

[Merton9999]

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Very cool suggestions Pebe / I really dig the concept and lore (awesome spoiler, I had no clue that was the case with SCH history since I don't play the job lol).
Would either of you mind if I added these to the Original post? Also did you have any ideas as to how these faction gear sets would look? If not I could fiddle around with some concepts.

I am super excited about this. Your WHM and DRK ones were great, I can't wait for a SCH one :)

I agree with Pebe - it will be very tough to beat the labcoat. Imo, that was the first piece of gear that beat the pimp hat!

As far as the SCH lore as it pertains to factions, it probably doesn't have to be any more complex than "The emperor killed all the Jedi... oops, except these couple!"

[kingfury]

Why would we join the Immortals when as far as the lore is concerned we've superseded their power within Aht Urhgan? We're the trusted mercenary of the Empress and her personal bodyguard which at least puts us at equal standing to Captain Raubahn if you did your Assault missions.

The Immortals are presented as the super special elite fighting force of Aht Urhgan but from what we've seen much of what they do doesn't exactly square with the player which is different from say... the Mythril Musketeers, Royal Guard or War Warlocks.

The Blue Mages within the organization are all at clearly different states of mental decay ranging from the Galka in the COR AF3 who has clearly lost it right down to Amnaf who turns into a Soulflayer and gets mercy killed by Raubahn. Some of the other more "stable" Immortals are also pretty troubled and Raubahn himself seems to be trying to contain himself.

Not exactly an organization you want to be affiliated with.
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Well you know that feeling us heroes get when we're revered as the "long awaited, legendary messiah" the ancients foretold would one day come to change everything lol.

Yeah, the Immortals sound like a mess from what you say, but hey, us adventurers are a sturdy lot and may be what's missing from that perfect Blue mage recipe mix. A crafty story teller on the Dev team could craft a wonderful tale of why adventurers are able to surpass the BLUs of old I'm sure. :)
Perhaps adventurers could hold the key that unlocks a new outcome for Blue mages as a whole, which could lead to all sorts of wonderfully complex plot twist and interesting battles. Ultimately, if done correctly, the quests involved could follow a tale where the player is directly involved with unlocking a new renaissance for the Immortals as an elite faction.

[kingfury]

You can add it, I don't mind. After further thought and reviewing the lvl 60 af hat quest, (SPOILER) the Keepers of Antiquity storyline will probably revolve around never letting the Blood Grimoire be summoned/used again (If you didn't know, reading the blood grimoire pretty much seals your soul inside of it. And in order to summon/use it, the countless death of others are required. The only person that actually successfully uses it is your mentor which you fight in the lvl 70 quest because well he is immortal and understands how to control it). Perhaps trying to find a way to create or more powerful Grimoire than the Blood Grimoire.

As for gear sets.... Well lets look at older sch gear sets first:
AF1 and AF2 = graduation cap and gown. So it like you graduated from high school with af1 and college with af2.
AF3 = lab coat = doing research/field work.

I really can't think of any other types of armor a scholar would wear. IMO, it would probably be a reskinned empyrean set with a few changes. Although, I'm ok with that because that set looks amazing.
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Just a start, but thought it could be a nice base to build on.

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/SCHGear-WEB_zps62ae684a.jpg

(View Larger (http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/SCHGear-WEB_zps62ae684a.jpg))

[Metaking]

hmmm or how about a from the brink type story... aka your loseing containment, the ... prestige group in question would tell you there is a way to save yourself a few missions down the line you get a dream scape like fight against yourself that's almost mutated into i dont know a flayer i guess. the armor could probly have a more mage like look of the robes the flayers wear or maybe something that looks like mixed effigy of Cerberus hydra and khimara


-------extra added on-------

you know, and not to diject from it, that picture looks more like an admirals out fit than a sch, kinda giving me more the fill of a ligament seafarer(cor). you know also looks alot like the captin from treasure planet >.>;

[Teraniku]

My turn for an Elite job Faction:

Knights of the Sacred Radiance

Nation: San D'Oria
Main NPCs: Curilia, Rughadjeen

Background: The Knights of the sacred radiance is a secret sect created by Curilia to act in Defense of the people in times of great crisis. To that end she has gathered together the most powerful Paladin's in the world to further the abilities and tactics of Paladin's everywhere to stand as the last line of defense against evil.

Paladin unlocks the Elite faction by being on Paladin in Southern San D'Oria (S) you get a cutscene where basically you save Curilia as a child and you interact with the Royal family which causes her to become a ward of the Royal Family. (Keeping in line with her back story)

Go to Castle D'Oraguille and talk to Curilia in the present where she will induct you into the knights by doing some sort of trial, complete and you are in.

-There are 2 routes and Paladins can do both routes if desired.
Curilia's rank missions will give you gear and abilities that protect allies and deal with Sword and Board armor and weapons.
Rughadjeen's rank missions will deal with Paladins who use Great swords in Battle and would deal with Protecting people by keeping a mobs attention fixed on to them.

[kingfury]

My turn for an Elite job Faction:

Knights of the Sacred Radiance
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Very cool / great background story :)

I can see some awesome images with two of these types of PLDs

[Reaper]

order of the archmages?
nation windurst
main npcs shantotto/ajido-marijido

extends blm

archmages research new ways to unleash raw magical energy and refine it?
two paths would be unleashing it(doing max damage on each nuke?) and more refined usage(conserve mp/magic acc?)

dunno sounds kind of cheesy when i think about it lol

[Pebe]

oh very interesting sch concept art. Although I can't visualize myself wearing it obviously because I'm a guy XD. But I like where you are going with it. Do more field research can play hand in hand with unlocking the mysteries of Adoulin's unexplored land. Not to mention that there are sources of energy in the land, I forget what they are called, that could play hand in hand with creating a new Grimoire + mixing in some elements from WotG.

Moving unto blm. I like where you are going with you concept reaper. However, I feel that the most revered BLM elite faction in the game is being part of the Heads of the Windustrian Ministries. I know they all are not black mages, IE Karuha-Baruha was a smn, but it would be cool becoming a head of one of the ministries imo.

Speaking of which, this could work for smn as well, perhaps more so. Now that Karuha-Baruha is dead, their is no longer a head of his ministry and it was sealed as well iirc. You could become the new High Summoner and takes his place, receiving missions and quests directly from the Star Sibyl(SPOILER:............................................... his beloved...) and as well as the avatars themselves. A trial from each of the Terrestrial Avatars sounds like a fun way to get your AF4. (5 Terrestrials, 5 armor slots). Carbuncle, Fenrir, Diabolos, and Bahamut are easy to get to, but implementing a trial from Phoenix might throw some plot twists. I guess Shel'teus can give it you(I forget his name). SPOILER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He did absorb Phoenix anyway, so i guess it could work.

[kingfury]

order of the archmages?
nation windurst
main npcs shantotto/ajido-marijido

extends blm

archmages research new ways to unleash raw magical energy and refine it?
two paths would be unleashing it(doing max damage on each nuke?) and more refined usage(conserve mp/magic acc?)

dunno sounds kind of cheesy when i think about it lol
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Thanks for BLM addition to the lineup /

I don't see it as "cheesy" at all, especially if the gear and traits are really powerful/useful. If the gear/stats/weapons are not worth the trouble then it wouldn't be useful in any case so I definitely see these opposing factions being relevant based on the situation at hand.

[kingfury]

oh very interesting sch concept art. Although I can't visualize myself wearing it obviously because I'm a guy XD.
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Yep the male version is coming lol

[Merton9999]

Oooooo I like the SCH one! It almost has a cybernetic feel. Who else but SCHs to take a leap toward technology with their gear.

[Hayward]

For SMN, I'd say a gauntlet run through the 6 Celestial Avatars and the 3 Terrestrial Avatars (Carbuncle, Fenrir, and Diabolos) would be a decent trial to gain access to High Summoner status. One-on-one, no Elementals, Temp items supplied between each fight to avoid MP trouble, etc. All avatars will be level 90~95.

[Yinnyth]

I like the passion you've put into the idea, but the suggested changes you've outlined I must disagree with. Making healers into melees with no downside? Making suicidal DDs into tanks with no penalty?

As much as I'd like my bard to be able to join a faction where they teach him how to sing a song that rips the moon from orbit and drops it squarely on the groin of my opponent, that's not what bard is supposed to be. I get on black mage if I want to do that. If enough of these factions pop up so any job can fill any role, then the only real difference in which job you choose to play would be purely cosmetic.

[dragmagi]

How about Weapon Masters for war? Gain full access to all currently known ws/ weapon types or go with the classic beserker bit with ga?

[kingfury]

I like the passion you've put into the idea, but the suggested changes you've outlined I must disagree with. Making healers into melees with no downside? Making suicidal DDs into tanks with no penalty?

As much as I'd like my bard to be able to join a faction where they teach him how to sing a song that rips the moon from orbit and drops it squarely on the groin of my opponent, that's not what bard is supposed to be. I get on black mage if I want to do that. If enough of these factions pop up so any job can fill any role, then the only real difference in which job you choose to play would be purely cosmetic.
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I would definitely say skill would still have to be used by the player even if the stats were powerful. The best gear and weapons won't guarantee success for battle in FFXI (even the God mode Brew in Abyssea). So I wouldn't say that there's no downside or penalty, but rather access to very valuable stats to enable certain jobs to perform at an acceptable level beyond what has been available up to this point. The design is not to grant "brew-like" capabilities at all so battle strategy would still be apart of the equation.

[kingfury]

How about Weapon Masters for war? Gain full access to all currently known ws/ weapon types or go with the classic beserker bit with ga?
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lol ahhh memories /sulk
If only you knew how much grief I got for that idea lol.

[Yinnyth]

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I would definitely say skill would still have to be used by the player even if the stats were powerful. The best gear and weapons won't guarantee success for battle in FFXI (even the God mode Brew in Abyssea). So I wouldn't say that there's no downside or penalty, but rather access to very valuable stats to enable certain jobs to perform at an acceptable level beyond what has been available up to this point. The design is not to grant "brew-like" capabilities at all so battle strategy would still be apart of the equation.

I'm not suggesting the game would become too easy should these changes occur. I'm also not saying that it would decrease the amount of skill involved in playing the game. I'm just pointing out that this would decrease the need for certain jobs.

If whm melee is comparable to DDs, why have a drk who can't cast arise? Because that drk would also be boosted so he can tank? Then why have a pld when plds can't DD worth a crap? Because that pld would be given the ability to nuke? Then why bring a blm when pld can nuke and take a hit? Because that blm would be given the ability to give powerful buffs? Then why bring a brd when a brd can't nuke? Because brd would be given the ability to cast high-tier cures?

Don't get me wrong, I like jobs to have a bit of diversity in what they can do, but not to the point where it starts to step on the toes of other jobs. Taking that too far makes it so it does not matter which job you pick because every job does the same stuff as every other job.

[kingfury]

Understandable, but you have to think about it for a sec; the moment FFXI introduced multiple DDs to the game past War and Mnk that "toe stepping" issue became a never ending reality. In essence, every single job that came after the base jobs (War, Mnk, Whm, Blm, Rdm, and Thf) was either a hybrid of those base job roles or simply another option to perform a similar task.

Namely, DD, Support, Tanking, and tossing Magic of some sort is all we can do in terms of being effective towards any enemy within FFXI based on a party set up, so 14(soon to be 16) jobs later on top of the base 6 options is bound to cause that very same toe stepping regardless of any type of enabling the Devs offer us through gear or other means. Frankly, the two new jobs alone will step on toes and endanger future party invites for multiple jobs that do similar things (Rdm, Brd, Cor, Drk, Dnc, Sch, Nin, and Smn).

I suppose my point is that enabling current jobs to do something a different way may be the best option for getting most bench bound jobs back in the party. I wouldn't ask for a WHM to out damage a DRK, but simply empower them to be more efficient at something they rarely get to do(even though if done properly they can be decent as is).

[Rustic]

I was just saying that if you are saying it would ruin the feeling we are the last SCH, its not really accurate, because due to other players I never feel like I am the last SCH. As you said there is a plausible story explanation as to why some SCHs could still be around, they simply fled the mainlands. So there should be little problem with it happening. I took what you were saying as that it would ruin a players feel of being the last SCH if we found out there were more just an ocean away, I just wanted to say I could never personally feel that way because of other players.

It wouldn't be the first case where a job survived elsewhere. Adoulin had it's own branch of Dragoons, separate from the San d'Orian line. Also, it could be reasonably posited that a "true" scholar is one that has mastered the grimorie (that is, finished up with the SCH storyline)- thus, you being the "first" to do so also means you are the "last" of the scholars.

It'd be a nice show that at somepoint, there's an official "revival" of the job in the three nations/Jeuno, as it's pretty flippin' obvious that after the events with the Maws, the Scholar is definitely past being "extinct".

[Yinnyth]

Understandable, but you have to think about it for a sec; the moment FFXI introduced multiple DDs to the game past War and Mnk that "toe stepping" issue became a never ending reality. In essence, every single job that came after the base jobs (War, Mnk, Whm, Blm, Rdm, and Thf) was either a hybrid of those base job roles or simply another option to perform a similar task.

Even the massive number of DDs available in the game are supposed to have slightly varying roles so that each excels in a different environment. Drgs are low enmity melees who specialize against dragons. Drks are high enmity melees who sacrifice their own safety for more damage and specialize against arcana. Sams build and spend TP more efficiently than any other job and specialize against demons. Rng does physical damage from a safe distance and gets more acc than any other job. Rune fencer will be able to safely deal damage in situations with even the most extreme amounts of magic damage.

All that being said, you are correct. Jobs already overshadow other jobs. Some jobs get left completely behind, and which jobs those are change over time (except pup... pup has always been behind). But I would rather see us working towards a class system that gives each job their own distinctive niche instead of working away from it.

We could still have a faction system certainly, but my suggestion would be more about specializing and focusing jobs towards the tasks they're already designed to do.

So don't boost whm's DD abilities. Instead, make their cursna more accurate, give them a spell to remove amnesia, muddle, and charm, give them silena II to have a chance to remove mute, make their barstatus effects more effective, and give them erase II which removes 2 erasable effects. Turn whm into the undisputed king of removing and preventing status effects.

Don't boost drk's tanking abilities, instead make them even more suicidal and fix their nukes so they're worth casting. Give them a JA like souleater for their nukes. Give them some MAB as a base trait. Give them a tiny bit of elemental alacrity and a ton of dark alacrity.

[Merton9999]

Sorry but I like KingFury's approach more. In fact, I'd be happiest if you could duo everything in the game with any two jobs of your choice. That's far from his proposal, and certainly unpopular, but I would like it more. So what's the point of having a job system if they are all so similar functionally? For me the allure of a job system is more about lore, fashion and nomenclature than it is about function. But that's just me.

Also, his original proposal suggested two paths - one to enhance the current function, one to branch off. You could have your Amnesna and potent Cursna for WHM in one specialization, maybe required for the toughest of fights, then switch to another faction in your MH (like you choose your subjob) for those times you want to add the melee prowess variety for a more casual or low-man event.

[Yinnyth]

And you are completely welcome to your belief of what you think would make the game better. Heck, after it got implemented, I might even learn to like it.

But one of the big draws this game has always had for me... one of the things that has kept me playing as long as I have has always been the dynamics each job has, and how those dynamics play with each other. How we can combine these jobs to maximize our efficiency. If any job can fill any role, that aspect of the game is out the window. Defenestrated

[kingfury]

Even the massive number of DDs available in the game are supposed to have slightly varying roles so that each excels in a different environment. Drgs are low enmity melees who specialize against dragons. Drks are high enmity melees who sacrifice their own safety for more damage and specialize against arcana. Sams build and spend TP more efficiently than any other job and specialize against demons. Rng does physical damage from a safe distance and gets more acc than any other job. Rune fencer will be able to safely deal damage in situations with even the most extreme amounts of magic damage.

All that being said, you are correct. Jobs already overshadow other jobs. Some jobs get left completely behind, and which jobs those are change over time (except pup... pup has always been behind). But I would rather see us working towards a class system that gives each job their own distinctive niche instead of working away from it.

We could still have a faction system certainly, but my suggestion would be more about specializing and focusing jobs towards the tasks they're already designed to do.

So don't boost whm's DD abilities. Instead, make their cursna more accurate, give them a spell to remove amnesia, muddle, and charm, give them silena II to have a chance to remove mute, make their barstatus effects more effective, and give them erase II which removes 2 erasable effects. Turn whm into the undisputed king of removing and preventing status effects.

Don't boost drk's tanking abilities, instead make them even more suicidal and fix their nukes so they're worth casting. Give them a JA like souleater for their nukes. Give them some MAB as a base trait. Give them a tiny bit of elemental alacrity and a ton of dark alacrity.
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True indeed /
There would definitely be an elite faction for each job that would promote making native job roles more potent. Stats, gear , and weapons very much like your examples. There would also be the opposing elite factions for each job that would promote pushing their mediocre stats to higher more effective levels(nothing game breaking, but effective).

The examples I used in the OP (the melee WHM and Defensive DRK) would be in no danger of fully replacing either a career DD or Tank in terms of a party invites, but could perhaps enjoy certain types of content they couldn't before on their preferred jobs.

[kingfury]

Also, his original proposal suggested two paths - one to enhance the current function, one to branch off. You could have your Amnesna and potent Cursna for WHM in one specialization, maybe required for the toughest of fights, then switch to another faction in your MH (like you choose your subjob) for those times you want to do add the melee prowess variety for a more casual or low-man event.
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Yepper, this was the approach. Thinking about it after reading your post, I would love to switch between factions similar to how we can switch from Merit points to Experience points in our Status menu to be honest. If there was only two faction options per job, it would simply be three options from the faction selection list:

Faction 1
Faction 2
Turn off Faction(s)

[Tsukino_Kaji]

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/WHMBattleArmor-WEB_zpsdef8288d.jpgYou forgot the add the nut shot.

But on a more serious note, as sweet as this looks, I have to dissagree with it. Whm battle gear needs to involve plate.

[kingfury]

You forgot the add the nut shot.

But on a more serious note, as sweet as this looks, I have to dissagree with it. Whm battle gear needs to involve plate.
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lol @ the money shot XD

Well I tried that route remember? Here's a refresher:

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/Hardlight-Cropped-WEB_zps8f38f6fe.jpg
But technically, this suggested new set would combine metal(or some gold'ish type) trim adorning the cloth, so you would have some weight to be proud of :)

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b167/soulchld4/WHMBattleArmor-Trim_zps90152b67.jpg

[Myo]

Kingfury, do you work for SquareEnix? If not, you really should... Your ideas are awesome! Not to mention you obviously listen to the feedback of other players almost 100%.

[Merton9999]

I've loved the look of that Hardlight set since you first posted it. I see myself being a lot more excited to play as WHM if I were wearing that.

Although, if the faction you've proposed as the "alternate" involved more melee prowess at the expense of more potent healing, a less-white, more-red armor might feel more appropriate.

That's why I like the idea of multiple faction choices for each job. Not only customized abilities by faction, but also different looks. I wouldn't even mind of they did a cheapo color swap of the same gear when you switched factions, and had gear like this:

New RDM body:
Time Mage Faction (Green): Enfeebling magic ignores all immunities (hahahaha...)
Mystic Knight Faction (Black): bonuses to melee stuff

It might be weird for two opposing (?) factions to use the same set of armor, but they could handle it by the faction leaders blessing or enchanting a base piece instead of giving it to you.

[kingfury]

Kingfury, do you work for SquareEnix? If not, you really should... Your ideas are awesome! Not to mention you obviously listen to the feedback of other players almost 100%.
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/Sigh
Only in my most wonderful dreams unfortunately. Thank you kindly for the great compliment /bow

[kingfury]

I've loved the look of that Hardlight set since you first posted it. I see myself being a lot more excited to play as WHM if I were wearing that.

Although, if the faction you've proposed as the "alternate" involved more melee prowess at the expense of more potent healing, a less-white, more-red armor might feel more appropriate.

That's why I like the idea of multiple faction choices for each job. Not only customized abilities by faction, but also different looks. I wouldn't even mind of they did a cheapo color swap of the same gear when you switched factions, and had gear like this:

New RDM body:
Time Mage Faction (Green): Enfeebling magic ignores all immunities (hahahaha...)
Mystic Knight Faction (Black): bonuses to melee stuff

It might be weird for two opposing (?) factions to use the same set of armor, but they could handle it by the faction leaders blessing or enchanting a base piece instead of giving it to you.
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Yeah, the heavier plate armor would be a wonderful set to play with on WHM and just fun to see imo :)

I think RDM in all black would be absolutely brilliant to see for their melee side of things and I cannot resist that challenge. A green set would be intriguing to see as well. Didn't they have that green pointy hat gear from Voidwatch?

I could definitely see the base job specific gear starting out as the same looking low powered gear, similar to how the Trial of the Magians works. It could be sort of a "rookie" type of gear to reflect your accepted status in a given faction of sorts. After a certain point in one's rank climb, the gear would eventually evolve to look like the finalized faction gear. I thought it was an interesting approach that the Devs let us wear Empyrean with extremely low stats and then walk around in the gear for every step of the upgrades. It was rewarding to see the base gear I suppose, but you could never tell who had finished upgrading just by passing them in town.

[Camiie]

Kingfury, do you work for SquareEnix? If not, you really should... Your ideas are awesome!

Sadly awesome ideas are no longer allowed at SquareEnix.


Not to mention you obviously listen to the feedback of other players almost 100%.

Nor is this.

In all seriousness, I do hope kingfury gets to work somewhere that will appreciate his talents and his good nature. The gaming industry sorely needs people like him.

[Kjara]

If you were an Immortal, you wouldn't even be allowed to leave Aht Urhgan (the only Immortal NPC you can find out of the city borders, in fact, is a guy who has been fired for some reason).

To allow players to join this kind of ranks, say Templar Knights for PLD and such, would break all the game lore.

[Demon6324236]

If you were an Immortal, you wouldn't even be allowed to leave Aht Urhgan (the only Immortal NPC you can find out of the city borders, in fact, is a guy who has been fired for some reason).I thought people at the staging points and at the entrances to the ruins were Immortals, true they are on duty, but we are the personal mercenary of the Queen of Aht Urhgan, I am sure with that being the case we could be allowed Immortal training without being bound to the country and its surrounding areas.

[Kjara]

I thought people at the staging points and at the entrances to the ruins were Immortals, true they are on duty, but we are the personal mercenary of the Queen of Aht Urhgan, I am sure with that being the case we could be allowed Immortal training without being bound to the country and its surrounding areas.

My pardons, I mistyped and meant "country borders", not city borders. Still, as far as I know the Immortals are the personal guard of the Empress, as well as a sort of secret agents that are only sent in small units (usually solo or duo at most) in very top secret missions within the country of Aht Urhgan. This goes against the concept of the mercenary work adventurers do, that requires freedom and the ability to go anywhere you are needed.

Also, the mercenaries are not "owned" by the Empress. The Salaheem's Sentinels are a large mercenary agency that yes, is sponsored by the Empire. But that's another kind of relationship.

Also, last but not least, all the BLU cutscenes imply that being an Immortal pretty much implies selling your soul to the cause. This wouldn't even allow us to like, change job. (In fact, by just unlocking BLU you get a Mark of Zahak, which is a permanent key item). By lore, to be an Immortal BLU is equal to obtain an immeasurable amount of power at the cost of your own freedom and life as an individual. Of course I'm not saying all the job factions would be as such; some of us have seen the guilds in XIV. I'd be more prone to that kind of feature, rather than making Immortal a rank actually accessible to adventurers.

[Demon6324236]

Also, the mercenaries are not "owned" by the Empress. The Salaheem's Sentinels are a large mercenary agency that yes, is sponsored by the Empire. But that's another kind of relationship.Well the main thing I was referring to is that in the story the majority of your work comes from the Empress or branches off from her work she gave you before. Also besides that she often refers to you as 'her' mercenary, which is why I made the comment, we are basically the only mercenary she seems to trust with matters she needs handled, and I am sure with all of the things that happen in that story line it would be possible to at least get the training of an Immortal, even if you do not officially become one. Basically a loophole while would let us learn and access anything special that being an Immortal would entail without actually becoming one so we are not bound by their rules and such.

Though I am fine with any way they would or could go about it, I just thought it would be an interesting point to bring up on the subject.

[Caketime]

If you were an Immortal, you wouldn't even be allowed to leave Aht Urhgan (the only Immortal NPC you can find out of the city borders, in fact, is a guy who has been fired for some reason).

To allow players to join this kind of ranks, say Templar Knights for PLD and such, would break all the game lore.

Why do you hate fun?

[Kjara]

Why do you hate fun?

I'm a roleplayer and have been part of a FFXI Roleplaying Linkshell for years now. I do not hate fun, I just like to do things within lore boundaries.

[Caketime]

So fun is only OK as long as it's pre-approved and doesn't break the already hilariously retconned lore?

[Oddwaffle]

I'm not too sure about this. Perhaps in a story line sense it might work somehow but from a functional sense I do not see how it would work well.

1st, how is this different than the merit system (particularly the WS)? With merit, you can only increases certain things to bring out the best of the job you like and you have to give up on others. For example, you can have your warrior with awesome Upheaval, Resolution and maybe Ruinator - making you a very powerful warrior who can wield both his 2H weapons and 1H. However, you will have to give up on other WS and so you can't have Tachi: Shoha or Shijin Spiral and that would make your Samurai and Monk less 'elite' than others.

2nd, why would people invite a Blue Mage to an event when there is already the Immortal, who is better than a Blue Mage? FFXI population tends to go with the better choice before taking the less common choice. A Bst can tank but people usually prefer a Pld or Ninja. A Pup can be a pure damage dealer but people will usually pick Drk, Drg, Sam, War or Mnk over a Pup. A Rdm can cure a party but people prefers getting a Whm on healing duty...etc. We already got a lot of favorites in certain situations. If we have an 'elite' job that is better than the normal one in every way then people will usually not invite the lesser job.

If you just give up the one-job-per-character-only then you get something like a relic/empy/mythic item. A Blue Mage with mythic will be much better than an average blue mage with only AH swords. A Monk running around with lv99 Vere and best gears will probably do better than the pink Monk totting a pair of Furor Cesti without Shijin Spiral.

If you also give up on the enhancements for 'elite' jobs then all you get will be the storyline features. 'Congrats, you're now one of the elite Blue Mage. You're the same as before and everyone will tread you like everyone else but you know you are one of the Immortals now.'