adieu FFXIV people

[Areayea]

I now bid adieu to all you ffxiv players that are leaving to go beta test, how does everyone think that's going to impact the FFXI community?

[Arcon]

Judging by the initial reports, the beta seems worse than the alpha. At this rate it won't be long until they're back, where they'll get disappointed as well, because SE will take even more personnel away to work on A Realm Reloaded.

[Helel]

Uh, why would anyone leave for a BETA test? It's possible to play two games. Shocking, I know.

I think ultimately FFXIV, when it's actually released, will benefit FFXI in the long run, once it fails and people start migrating back to FFXI, including people who have never played it before.

[Areayea]

that'd be awesome, lol but IDK some people might just go to 14 and forget about 11 cuz they wanna lose themselves in the new one. IDK but ya I hope that's what happens I've played xi for too long X.X to want to switch

[Meyi]

Square Enix, what are you doing? Square Enix, STAHP!

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Uh, why would anyone leave for a BETA test?They're all already gone.

[Dazusu]

Some people seem to think the beta is an 'early access' code for FFXIV.

It's not. It's buggy; they are going to keep rolling back, deleting characters and performing maintenance. Sure, there might be the small window of opportunity to try a few quests - but anyone "leaving" to play FFXIV is going to be sorely disappointed; and likely the type of person who will proclaim the game is crap based on their experience in the beta.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

It's possible to play two games.

Not really. Not when both are heavily involved MMO's.


Some people seem to think the beta is an 'early access' code for FFXIV.

That's how beta testers are paid, instead of with actual money.

Though I find it funny this is coming from someone who has access to the XI test servers.


likely the type of person who will proclaim the game is crap based on their experience in the beta.

I dunno, the XIV beta testers saying that were eerily prescient...

[Dazusu]

The difference there is, XI has a 'test server' for new 'features'. That's a million miles from an unreleased game in 'beta' testing its core foundation.

Plus, let's be honest, you don't need access to the test server to know what direction this game is heading in :-P

[Alhanelem]

not a whole lot. personally while I intend to play the FFXIV, I also still intend to play the new expansion and its new jobs.

[Monchat]

not sure why people think ff14 will impact ff11 population a lot. On 1.0 launch there was a little enquiry on ff14 and only ~10% had played ff11. Both games willl exist, and personally fromn what ive seen, they make a HD wow clone. cool story bro, im not very intrested... But i know that's the kind of game american like.

[Jaall]

Loving the FFXIV hate here. Personally I hope it does very well and I couldn't care less about the population of FFXI. If it gets too low SE will just merge servers again so don't worry FFXI is not gonna die. But I'm excited about something new using the same mobs etc as final fantasy. Anyone else from FFXI like the idea of FFXIV or all haters?

[Eri]

Been playing both... so like meh i don't hate any of em...
Both like to disappiont me so w/e XD

[Winrie]

Playing both, and to be honest ARR has great potential, that those choice crybabies like to try to cut down but yeah. If XIs new expansion doesnt sink me back in, ill be going to ARR to have a new FF experience.

[Sarick]

Playing both, and to be honest ARR has great potential, that those choice crybabies like to try to cut down but yeah. If XIs new expansion doesnt sink me back in, ill be going to ARR to have a new FF experience.

That's shallow, If you're that bored with FFXI it's not like there aren't other FISH in the sea of MMOs you could choose from. It seems like from your logic only two MMO's exist to choose from.

So why did I make this comment to you? It's because you called players who don't like FFXIV choice crybabies. If someone doesn't like something and they complain it's their right just as much as it is yours to like it. Promotion and damage control has some impact but headliners that are negative can have the reverse effect. Don't forget that the "Final Fantasy" and "Square Enix" brands are no longer the trending names they once where. It's obvious this was caused by bad choices along the way and the result was people complaining/quitting from them.

The players who leave for bata aren't going to impact FFXI much. The players on the game now are mostly very long standing subscribers. Some players have jumped through hoops in places so high there is no longer a breathable atmosphere. Sure you have a few that strayed away and decided to come back after hearing about a new expansion but still, these types of players don't leave for trivial things easily. If they did FFXI would have already been dead several years ago.

[Jaall]

It just seems to me that everyone on here is crying because FFXIV is not a modern FFXI remake so, like children, they throw their toys out the pram and say they don't like it. Nobody technically has a right to say because ARR hasn't been released yet and the beta is absolutely not the final product and a lot can and will change. People saying that FFXIV sucks now are obviously just those children crying because FFXIV is not a remade FFXI and their beloved FFXI is being left by the dev team for a newer game. It's life and nobody is forcing you to move on, this games still alive and I'm glad it is, but you're acting childish. Times change, and that applies to literally everything. No matter what, time will change everything, whether that's a good thing or not is up to the user/player but just remember it then becomes opinion and to every opinion there's an opposite view. The most shallow thing I think, is saying FFXIV sucks when they haven't even tried ARR (which is everyone except the team working on it, as the beta is not a complete game and was never intended to be complete).

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

It just seems to me that everyone on here is crying because FFXIV is not a modern FFXI remake so, like children, they throw their toys out the pram and say they don't like it.

The Latin phrase of today is "ad hominem!" Be sure to scream real loud whenever you see an example of it, kids!


Nobody technically has a right to say because ARR hasn't been released yet and the beta is absolutely not the final product and a lot can and will change.

The same was said back in 2010.


People saying that FFXIV sucks now are obviously just those children crying because FFXIV is not a remade FFXI and their beloved FFXI is being left by the dev team for a newer game.

As has been mentioned quite loudly in these forums in the past, it's not that the dev team has left that has us bent out of shape, but that we're still paying them for the privilege.


It's life and nobody is forcing you to move on,

On the other hand, anybody choosing to stay in spite of the dwindling rate-of-return on their entertainment dollars is a fool.


this games still alive

For certain definitions of "alive."


The most shallow thing I think, is saying FFXIV sucks when they haven't even tried ARR

Maybe, but keep in mind that S-E spent nearly two full years saying "It doesn't suck any more, really!" You can't expect the playerbase to continue to give S-E the benefit of the doubt after the umpteenth time they've called "Wolf!"


(which is everyone except the team working on it, as the beta is not a complete game and was never intended to be complete).

You also can't say that game betas bear no relation to the final game.

[Jaall]

If people pay for FFXI then they should be happy enough with how FFXI is atm and not care about how good/bad FFXIV is doing because at the end of the day they are 2 separate games. If they are unhappy and stay playing a game that isn't good then there's no helping them. I realise it's people's nature to complain about everything and nature for some people to go off crying when they don't like something but I and most other people would consider that childish.

FFXI isn't as alive as it was but the way I meant was still running. You all complain now, as SE lowers their support on this game, but just wait till the day it really dies. I'm not saying that's now but it will inevitably happen, so all I can say is <<Good Luck!>>.

FFXIV beta is in its first stages and many games have had noticeable changes after betas because that's the whole point of them. Community testing does a lot for a game because it irons out most of its creases. When FFXIV was first released yea it wasn't fantastic but it wasn't completely un playable. The reason it was such a flop is because there are better MMO's out there such as WoW and GW, and it didn't live up to FFXI standards. Now it has changed dramatically and from what people have said even the beta is a remarkable change since the first release. I never said people should give SE benefit of the doubt BUT it is still shallow because until the full version is released you are basing the full version off of an incomplete "demo" designed only to iron out all the bugs. Like people have said many a time, beta's aren't early access to a game, they are there for solving problems only, that is why you are asked tester based questions when you sign up, like "how often do you play" and "on what console do you play".

[Elphy]

No point of defending ffxiv to this crowd.

Haters gonna hate no matter how good ffxiv ends up being.

And btw I love how ppl complain about ffxiv being a clone of wow or any other game, ffxi itself is an eq clone and like all clones doesnt measure up to the original, even if it is still good on its own

[Zumi]

not sure why people think ff14 will impact ff11 population a lot. On 1.0 launch there was a little enquiry on ff14 and only ~10% had played ff11. Both games willl exist, and personally fromn what ive seen, they make a HD wow clone. cool story bro, im not very intrested... But i know that's the kind of game american like.

Every single person I ever talked to when FFXIV was up played FFXI. I would always ask them what server they played on and they would always have an answer.

[Ravenmore]

So people that are defending 14, what do you think will happen to a game that failed the first time after what SE did 11 and it was making them money. That is what will keep people away from 14, SE doesn't learn from their mistakes and keeps making the same ones over and over. So in a couple of years SE will get it in their heads again to make another MMO and pay for it off the backs of which ever player base is left. So if 14 does take off it's just telling SE they can do it and get away with it.

[Zumi]

So people that are defending 14, what do you think will happen to a game that failed the first time after what SE did 11 and it was making them money. That is what will keep people away from 14, SE doesn't learn from their mistakes and keeps making the same ones over and over. So in a couple of years SE will get it in their heads again to make another MMO and pay for it off the backs of which ever player base is left. So if 14 does take off it's just telling SE they can do it and get away with it.

SE did learn from their mistakes. They had apologized for their mistakes that were made on FF!4, replaced a lot of the lead positions including producer Tanaka. They got a new producer Yoshi-P who seems really enthusiastic about making it the best game he can and works crazy hours as well. If you watched any of the FF14 videos they released they have made a lot of progress on the game and its sharpening up to be a really good game and its up to the standard of the modern MMO.

[Jaall]

So if 14 does take off it's just telling SE they can do it and get away with it.

Exactly what Zumi said, also even if FFXIV doesn't take off SE will try again because that's what game designers do! If every game developer gave up with a failed release we would have a LOT less games than there are now. I know that you will then fire back at me "FFXIV isn't the first fail game" and that is your opinion. Now look at FFXIII. FFXIII-2 was a great game despite the bad publicity with FFXIII which shows SE do learn from mistakes and improve on them as much as they can. FFXIII-2 wasn't fantastic but like I've said, times change, games change, everyone seems to be stuck in the past and can't take change. It's not like FFXI has gone anywhere, you can still play it. Deal with the fact that you can't have everything you want and that every game developer, not just SE, makes mistakes and bad games. Nobodies forcing you to play anything so why should you care?

[Mirage]

Leaving for a beta? What a dumb thing to suggest.

Maybe when the game is released.

[Demon6324236]

I think the topic was made more or less because people will choose to leave FFXI for FFXIV based on the beta most likely. If the beta does not live up to their expectations, they may very well call it quits on FFXIV and just keep going with FFXI, on the other hand if the beta is amazing, they will likely plan to say goodbye to FFXI when the release for FFXIV approaches. I doubt people would actually leave the game for a beta, as it has been said in this thread a few times, however if the beta is good, I can easily see people getting ready to pack their virtual bags in preparation for FFXIV once they see how good the beta is.

[Ravenmore]

Exactly what Zumi said, also even if FFXIV doesn't take off SE will try again because that's what game designers do! If every game developer gave up with a failed release we would have a LOT less games than there are now. I know that you will then fire back at me "FFXIV isn't the first fail game" and that is your opinion. Now look at FFXIII. FFXIII-2 was a great game despite the bad publicity with FFXIII which shows SE do learn from mistakes and improve on them as much as they can. FFXIII-2 wasn't fantastic but like I've said, times change, games change, everyone seems to be stuck in the past and can't take change. It's not like FFXI has gone anywhere, you can still play it. Deal with the fact that you can't have everything you want and that every game developer, not just SE, makes mistakes and bad games. Nobodies forcing you to play anything so why should you care?

You seem to have misunderstood what I was saying. If 14 takes off and becomes a profitable game instead they will pull the same crap again. Things like taking 3 years to finish a expansion while diverting funds to a game that failed the first time is seen as acceptable. That is what will keep people away from 14 and will be brought up the most.

[Jaall]

I dont think anything will change how SE does things. They've always taken years to create expansions and diverted resources to places where there really is no need. I mean they announced FF versus XIII so many years ago I cant remember and still not even a 2nd vid on the game. It took them years to create CoP and ToAU. I don't see why FFXIV would change how SE has been running their games for the past 15 years?

Also it's kinda a win win situation if that's what you're saying. If FFXIV ARR is released and is good, it shows that the money has been used effectively and the time taken to fix it has worked. If it doesn't work then they have a chance to learn, even though i highly doubt they would learn. They have a lot of money and are one of the biggest game developers, moving into other areas such as Tomb Raider, this is only one of their departments. SE will probably always stick by it's business plan because no matter how much of it's audience complains about them, it still seems to be working right?

[Demon6324236]

They have a lot of money and are one of the biggest game developers, moving into other areas such as Tomb Raider, this is only one of their departments.That is true, but you have to admit, Final Fantasy is Square Enix's flagship game, everything else may be out there with their name on it, but when you think Square Enix, you probably think Final Fantasy. At least, everyone I know does. The point of this being that if their flagship game falters, it can lead to people losing faith in SE, for instance, when FFXIII came out, some people were heavily disappointed, as such it kinda became a black mark on not only the franchise but the company as well, the same way FFXIV did.

Really when you look at it though, it seems as though Square's flagship game is going down hill, all recent installments have been sub-par in todays gaming world, the story just isn't the same magic it once was. Some people, myself included, are starting to think that SE is perhaps losing their touch, no game has matched up to the story of FFX for me, which is my favorite, and it seems as though the direction they have started to head with stories leaves me often confused or at least feeling out of place by compare to before.

I think SE makes great games sometimes, but other times they simply fail to deliver, and they often ignore feedback on how to improve, sometimes they listen though. It seems as though newer games are getting teams of newer people, FFXIII-2 for instance seemed to learn from much of the feedback from the original, and while the game was not perfect, it was a massive improvement, and I feel the same will be said of FFXIV in the end. The game will probably be good, but not perfect, and will still lag behind the bigger players in the MMO market, while keeping a group of fans all to itself, if for nothing more than the Final Fantasy title being slapped on it. I mean in all honesty, this game would probably have been dead by now except its called Final Fantasy, which got it a lot of players to start, and has most likely kept it going over the years.

[Merton9999]

That is true, but you have to admit, Final Fantasy is Square Enix's flagship game, everything else may be out there with their name on it, but when you think Square Enix, you probably think Final Fantasy. At least, everyone I know does. The point of this being that if their flagship game falters, it can lead to people losing faith in SE, for instance, when FFXIII came out, some people were heavily disappointed, as such it kinda became a black mark on not only the franchise but the company as well, the same way FFXIV did.

Really when you look at it though, it seems as though Square's flagship game is going down hill, all recent installments have been sub-par in todays gaming world, the story just isn't the same magic it once was. Some people, myself included, are starting to think that SE is perhaps losing their touch, no game has matched up to the story of FFX for me, which is my favorite, and it seems as though the direction they have started to head with stories leaves me often confused or at least feeling out of place by compare to before.

I think SE makes great games sometimes, but other times they simply fail to deliver, and they often ignore feedback on how to improve, sometimes they listen though. It seems as though newer games are getting teams of newer people, FFXIII-2 for instance seemed to learn from much of the feedback from the original, and while the game was not perfect, it was a massive improvement, and I feel the same will be said of FFXIV in the end. The game will probably be good, but not perfect, and will still lag behind the bigger players in the MMO market, while keeping a group of fans all to itself, if for nothing more than the Final Fantasy title being slapped on it. I mean in all honesty, this game would probably have been dead by now except its called Final Fantasy, which got it a lot of players to start, and has most likely kept it going over the years.

I agree with your sentiment in general, except that the concept of "losing their touch" is nothing new for SE. I think it's simply that they take a lot of risks and like to change things up. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't. Often it works for a new set of people and alienates others. You can always look at overall sales or some other objective measure, but everyone's story is different.

I bought FF1 in 1990 because it had a crystal ball and swords on the cover. My friends and I soon became obsessed, and were nuts about US 2 and 3 for SNES. Then came VII and I was the only one in my group of 5 RPG fan friends who liked it. The rest proclaimed Final Fantasy "dead" because old faithful Square sold out and made a movie instead of a game to appeal to a larger audience.

My time came with X. It remains the only Final Fantasy game I didn't like and wish I never played. Many others loved it, but it was polarizing, and a shift again for lots of fans.

My point is, they've been doing the up-down, audience-shifting stuff from the beginning. For me the XIV development story is interesting. For the first time they get to redo the failure and see what happens. I'll try it out, but have no intention of leaving XI until I like XIV enough to spend my free time there. It will also depend on whether the people I play XI with will play/switch to XIV as well.

[Mirage]

Merton knows where it's at.

[SpankWustler]

My time came with X. It remains the only Final Fantasy game I didn't like and wish I never played.


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(http://www.listenonrepeat.com/watch/?v=-lfiTebewnc)http://gifninja.com/animatedgifs/255016/tidus-laugh.gif
AH HA HA HA! (http://www.listenonrepeat.com/watch/?v=-lfiTebewnc) AH HA HA HA! (http://www.listenonrepeat.com/watch/?v=-lfiTebewnc) AH HA HA HA! (http://www.listenonrepeat.com/watch/?v=-lfiTebewnc)

[Demon6324236]

That makes me sad, 10 is my favorite... ;;

[Areayea]

I <3 X, I can't wait for the HD remaster to come out :O I'ma buy it right away lol, like that my post got so much attention O.O but uh... hi pplz and stuffz :P otherwise uh... after reading everything, and seeing how the first couple of phases of XIV is running it seems like they are actually trying again, which since I'm prolly not gonna be too serious (I will play for you hide <3) about XIV, but... in actuality since this new directer seems like he cares and is enthusiastic I can't wait to see how SoA is gonna do, the music so far is kinda ok, but usually the preview music isn't the actual music that makes it in (I REALLY wish they brought in Ode to Heroes Fallen somewhere in WotG...) but otherwise ya this will be very interesting to see what is going to happen... but yes... I <3 X as well, X-2 sucked tho I'll agree with that, but X had some of the best quotes I've taken from a video game (in a sales job I use them >.>)

[wildsprite]

some of you are wondering about FFXIV:ARR at this point defending/hating it would be pointless as it isn't finished however if they dont fix one of the main issues that 1.0 had which was the system requirements too high for most of the players who initially tried it(it made most of the systems choke), it will fail just as 1.0 did

the comment about making most of the systems choke was the majority of the players who were excited about 1.0

[Demon6324236]

some of you are wondering about FFXIV:ARR at this point defending/hating it would be pointless as it isn't finished however if they dont fix one of the main issues that 1.0 had which was the system requirements too high for most of the players who initially tried it(it made most of the systems choke), it will fail just as 1.0 did

the comment about making most of the systems choke was the majority of the players who were excited about 1.0Going by screenshots that flooded AH.com when the system check thing was released, it seems much better than it was.

[Arcon]

some of you are wondering about FFXIV:ARR at this point defending/hating it would be pointless as it isn't finished [..]

Hating it isn't pointless, because it does not depend on how good it is. I don't hate bad games, I just don't play them. FFXIV I hate, because of SE's attitude and its adverse effects on FFXI. It's entirely unrelated to the game itself. It could be the earthly manifestation of Christ, I still wouldn't be playing it and I'd hate it for what it did.

[Jaall]

Hating it isn't pointless, because it does not depend on how good it is. I don't hate bad games, I just don't play them. FFXIV I hate, because of SE's attitude and its adverse effects on FFXI. It's entirely unrelated to the game itself. It could be the earthly manifestation of Christ, I still wouldn't be playing it and I'd hate it for what it did.

There's no pleasing people like you. SE's attitude has been the same for FFXIV as it has been for every other game only difference is they've made it public because of FFXIV's first failure. The main gripe you have with FFXIV is that it has had a bad effect on FFXI but tbh it hasn't made a blind difference it's just how you perceive it. FFXI will always have gone the way it has, with the existence of FFXIV or not, either way it would have been replaced by another final fantasy because they have to move with the times to survive. Try running a business or making a game and you will understand.

[Arcon]

There's no pleasing people like you.

Very untrue, I'm quite easily pleased. Why else would I be playing XI in its current state?


The main gripe you have with FFXIV is that it has had a bad effect on FFXI but tbh it hasn't made a blind difference it's just how you perceive it. FFXI will always have gone the way it has, with the existence of FFXIV or not, either way it would have been replaced by another final fantasy because they have to move with the times to survive. Try running a business or making a game and you will understand.

So I assume you understand them better than me, because you have made a game and are running a business?

They admitted themselves FFXI is running on a low crew right now, they frequently use it as an excuse not to implement very simple features. Assuming they aren't lying to us, what kind of company lets its most profitable venture in their entire history run on a skeleton crew, while increasing the developers on a game that brought them nothing but disgrace in the eyes of the public and was a huge financial flop?

In case you can't guess, it's the kind of company who would sacrifice both their profits and their loyal customers to erase a black mark on their record. They're trying to save face. And it's not really helping their outside appearance either, because people will not forget that XIV existed because of this. It hurt their image, no matter what XIV will turn out to be now. Many people will not even try it because of their opinion of the original. In a market with such a growth and new MMORPGs popping up in every direction, some of them even free, others with massive fan bases (such as The Elder Scrolls Online, which will actually coincide with the XIV release), how many do you think will go with "the remake of a horribly screwed up game" compared to any of the alternatives?

Trying to rescue XIV was a bad move in almost every logical way, yet they went on with it. Don't give me that "they're a big company, they know better than you" bullshit. If they knew better they wouldn't have lost assloads of money on that game. Even big companies can go broke, that's no argument for anything. Either tell me why I'm wrong or stop defending them.

[Jaall]

You're wrong because very few people had even heard of FFXI and FFXIV in comparison to other MMO's and so the image is very easily rebuilt. Secondly they haven't cut any of the profits from FFXI, because guess what, you're still paying them. They realise that no matter how little they care for FFXI they can get away with it, so they have confidence in FFXI. I would bet that if everyone quit FFXI tomorrow they would go straight back to FFXI and put equal effort into both, but why should they if FFXI is stable? The best business plan would be to divert resources to the potential best product for as long as FFXI is making a steady income, which it is. You have just stated that no matter how FFXIV is, you will never leave FFXI, so you're playing into their hands. So in fact you are actually fuelling what you hate. Oh and by the way... I have run a company so I know exactly what it's like, and also done a master degree course in 3D animation which is very closely related to games design, in fact I actually worked along side game coders in a lot of my assignments.

[Elphy]

Don't forget SE one and ONLY game is ffxi, and they have absolutely no right to work on other games. They have no right to take the money they make from one game and put it into another.

They have NO right to work on repairing their image that ffxiv v1 soiled. They have NO right to do ANYTHING outside of ffxi EVER

ffxi money should go to NOTHING but ffxi, tomb raider money should go to NOTHING but tomb raider, etc etc. If they want to rebuild ffxiv they should find the money elsewhere and NEVER take a DIME from our precious ffxi. All other games and the reputation of the company be damned.

I will NEVER EVER look at ANY other ff title, esp FFXIV because it TOOK ALL OUR MONEY AND RESOURCES FOR A FAIL GAME.

---

Like I said before, no need to defend any other game to these ppl, they cant see past ffxi and they will hate a game they have never played just because they are butt hurt that after 10 yrs ffxi isnt getting se's full attn

[Jaall]

Like I said before, no need to defend any other game to these ppl, they cant see past ffxi and they will hate a game they have never played just because they are butt hurt that after 10 yrs ffxi isnt getting se's full attn

Couldn't have put it better myself! I've defended FFXIV enough, obviously some people are so narrow minded that they can't see past 1 game, as unhealthy as that may be.

[Merton9999]

The point keeps being raised that the only thing SE is doing by trying to revive FFXIV is saving face. That's narrow to me. It might be part of the reason, but I also know they're people who like games, like newness, like change, like progression and like cutting edge. It's obvious from the history of the series.

If I were a developer at SE instead of software development manager at another business, I would dread being stuck on FFXI. As a person in the computer industry, the thought of spending my career on a ten year old title that looks like garbage and is doing nothing new for the industry would feel like a prison sentence, or at least a grunt job left for interns.

As a developer, I would push XIV regardless of XI profits and corporate image because it's exciting, new and different. There are good business reasons for doing so with the right balance. At the company I manage, I could get away with just maintaining current working systems for years, as long as all the people I employ were happy to continue doing that. The problem is they aren't. If I wasn't offering them ways to grow and contribute to a quickly evolving industry, many of the best would quit and go somewhere that did. I don't know how that attitude translates in Japan but it's a big issue in the companies I've hired for in the US.

It's also incredibly difficult to hire the best and brightest newcomers if all I focus on in the interview is maintaining legacy systems. I can't imagine how much new programmer blood SE would be able to attract if the only MMO developer position they could offer was for FFXI. Could they pour it all into XI and make that new and exciting? Somewhat, but that would never be as enticing as creating a whole new world.

So why not scrap XIV and just offer the promise to their staff of working on XV or anything else new? I'm sure that's where the saving face comes in. It would also be incredibly attractive to me as a developer to rescue a failure because it would show I was better than the people who made it suck. There's probably also the fact that a lot of the design was already there, even if the systems had to change.

My point is that SE has more to think about than immediate corporate image and FFXI fans. I have no idea how many people will like FFXIV, or if I will. But I know that SE has a history of providing new RPG experiences, not just repeating the same formula, and that to employ people to continue that they probably can't keep XI as their only MMO forever.

[Arcon]

You're wrong because very few people had even heard of FFXI and FFXIV in comparison to other MMO's and so the image is very easily rebuilt.

Assumption. Regardless of how many people know the FF franchise (and you know as well as I do it's a lot), there was a lot of bad press about XIV when it was released. Even people not interested in FF but interested in MMORPGs will know that from various news sites they visit, magazines they read or people they talk to. The same will not be true for the success of the game, unless it's truly groundbreaking. Of course there's a chance of that, but what chance do you give it? My estimate is rather low, judging by what I've seen so far.


Secondly they haven't cut any of the profits from FFXI, because guess what, you're still paying them.

I am not their profits. The thousands of people who have quit out of boredom because no relevant content was released in two years, they are not paying SE anymore, and they were their profits. You call it stable, despite two server merges and still less than half of the average online numbers than it was before? The online numbers are now lower than when they were when the servers were merged, meaning the game has lost over half its playerbase since then. Of course that's just approximations and we don't have the exact numbers, but it's bad enough that it's even in that area.

How can you possibly justify that? Do you think it was just coincidence it maintained a somewhat constant playerbase for ten years and the decline had nothing to do with the lack of updates for about two years?


The best business plan would be to divert resources to the potential best product for as long as FFXI is making a steady income, which it is.

Even if that was the case, FFXI is still their best potential income. You attribute repairing FFXIV the same value as keeping FFXI intact, and again, that's pure assumption on your part. Neither of us can prove it entirely, but at least I have arguments supporting my claim, which I explained above. What do you have to support yours? Why do you think FFXIV is their best potential income? Do you think everyone quitting XI is going to XIV?


You have just stated that no matter how FFXIV is, you will never leave FFXI, so you're playing into their hands.

Wrong, I did not say that. I said I will never play it, it doesn't mean that I will not leave FFXI, as many others have done before me. I actually plan to do that if The Elder Scrolls Online is as good as it sounds at this point and SoA doesn't live up to the hype. However, unlike you, I will actually wait until the game is released to pass judgment, and not declare it the best thing since sliced bread upon release of the beta.


Oh and by the way... I have run a company so I know exactly what it's like, and also done a master degree course in 3D animation which is very closely related to games design, in fact I actually worked along side game coders in a lot of my assignments.

Disregarding that I don't believe you, I just said that doesn't matter at all:

So I assume you understand them better than me, because you have made a game and are running a business?

This time without the sarcasm: your experience means shit. I don't believe a tobacco salesman what he says about tobacco, regardless of how rich his company is. Unless he actually presents evidence and brings a good argument, his words mean very little to me. Similarily, your words of wisdom will carry very little weight with me, unless, you know, there is actual wisdom in them. So far, all I've seen is fandom.

(Also, 3D animation is related game design like watching porn is to having sex.)


They have NO right to work on repairing their image that ffxiv v1 soiled. They have NO right to do ANYTHING outside of ffxi EVER

They have the right, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a stupid decision. I'm not saying they couldn't have done it. I'm saying they shouldn't have done it.


Like I said before, no need to defend any other game to these ppl, they cant see past ffxi and they will hate a game they have never played just because they are butt hurt that after 10 yrs ffxi isnt getting se's full attn

I have actually played it, I've participated actively in the alpha, beta and still hung on to it until after it was released. I was actually looking forward to it, because I don't cling to the past because I'm too afraid to move on, and I did see its potential. It had a depth that was typical of a FF game, but very little content to explore it, and a bad interface to present it.

SE were the ones who crushed my hopes in the first place, and made me go back to XI. Unlike them, I was able to accept that defeat and did move on, which was back to XI. And when I saw that they were prepared to let their good game rot to save the freakshow they created, it naturally made me hate the game for it.


I've defended FFXIV enough, obviously some people are so narrow minded that they can't see past 1 game, as unhealthy as that may be.

As if to make my point, you say that you've defended a game that's not even released yet, barely out of the alpha (and some people say too soon). How can you possibly justify that, aside from fandom?

And stop projecting, will you. Just because I don't like the same game you do, it doesn't mean I'm only interested only in FFXI. I can give you list of games I've played in the last two months alone that are all better than every single impression XIV has ever left on me.


The point keeps being raised that the only thing SE is doing by trying to revive FFXIV is saving face. That's narrow to me. It might be part of the reason, but I also know they're people who like games, like newness, like change, like progression and like cutting edge. It's obvious from the history of the series.

While I agree with pretty much everything of your post, this I find arguable. I would have agreed with you just a few years ago, but their latest releases (not just XIV) have made me wonder. It seems they like their image more than their games themselves. For example, they always wanna do something new. Sounds good on paper. The problem is, not always is new better than old, like the omission of an auction house from XIV. They adjusted it later to offer searchable wards, which was a great idea, but it was late and seemed to be an experiment on the expense of the player, rather than them. As a developer myself, I could never justify that. And there have been many similar examples from previous FF games as well.

Anyway, my response to the rest of your post is basically encapsulated in it as well:

So why not scrap XIV and just offer the promise to their staff of working on XV or anything else new? I'm sure that's where the saving face comes in.

That is most certainly the case. And I think that's what they should have done. You mentioned that some of the systems were already there, but I'm not sure how well that applies, seeing how the game was basically remade from scratch. From the graphical engines and core combat mechanics to the landscape and character design. I'm not sure if they really had much to build on. Of course that's speculation, but even if there was, there are advantages to a new game as well, namely it would relieve a big part of the burden that comes with the name of FFXIV, which was irreparably stained.

And speaking of their "only MMO", they are also releasing Dragon Quest X soon, and I'm quite certain that won't be their last either. Progress is not bad, but FFXIV is hardly progress, and what of it is, could have been handled better.

[Merton9999]

Anyway, my response to the rest of your post is basically encapsulated in it as well:


That is most certainly the case. And I think that's what they should have done. You mentioned that some of the systems were already there, but I'm not sure how well that applies, seeing how the game was basically remade from scratch. From the graphical engines and core combat mechanics to the landscape and character design. I'm not sure if they really had much to build on. Of course that's speculation, but even if there was, there are advantages to a new game as well, namely it would relieve a big part of the burden that comes with the name of FFXIV, which was irreparably stained.

And speaking of their "only MMO", they are also releasing Dragon Quest X soon, and I'm quite certain that won't be their last either. Progress is not bad, but FFXIV is hardly progress, and what of it is, could have been handled better.

I get what you're saying - go ahead and make a spanking new MMO to progress the genre, just don't slap the XIV name on it because of its image. That's what I think is kind of interesting though. If they can pull off a turnaround, that less safe road will be a more memorable trip to me than a great FFXVI online. It may not end up being the best business decision, but I don't think that's what I've always liked about Square stuff.

Ten years from now I'll have fonder memories while I play a great game titled XIV that inspired so much heated commentary before it finally took off than I would be playing one called XVI and thinking "remember that XIV one that sucked."

[Jaall]

I can't even be bothered to read your mammoth of a post, I've made my point that some people will just be stubborn and won't regard anything as good because its not a remake of your beloved FFXI. Nobodies wrong in opinion I guess but I do feel very very sorry for you because one day whether you like it or not FFXI will die, and your hopes at the moment are that FFXIV dies before it (which as we all know is fairly unlikely). Who are you to tell SE how to run their business? They are successful no matter how you dress it up to be bad. Like all developers they produce bad games, happens. They have tried their hardest to improve it and if you can't accept that then there's no helping you. I've said my bit, there's no pleasing you, you're just determined to put down everything because your 10+ year old game has lost some (not all) support which would have happened anyway. I wish you the best... You'll need it.

[Demon6324236]

Don't forget SE one and ONLY game is ffxi, and they have absolutely no right to work on other games. They have no right to take the money they make from one game and put it into another.Its not so much that they can not take the money made from FFXI and put into other games, more that we should get better service than we do. Its a game in beta they are remaking because they screwed up the original, and it gets more resources by far than the game which has been going for years with players still coming and going. The game is not dead, its active, its out, it should be getting more resources thrown at it so the game is better, instead most of what we see is redone content, variations on old content, and excuses about how our updates are pushed back because of having to few people to work on it. I don't think anyone here is saying to let FFXIV die since they put the work they have into it right now, but if anything we should have more people working on this game, it is not right or fair in any way to take the money they make from this game and throw 90% of it at a different game while we suffer from worse service thanks to it.

[Arcon]

I get what you're saying - go ahead and make a spanking new MMO to progress the genre, just don't slap the XIV name on it because of its image. That's what I think is kind of interesting though. If they can pull off a turnaround, that less safe road will be a more memorable trip to me than a great FFXVI online. It may not end up being the best business decision, but I don't think tat's what I've always liked about Square stuff.

Up until recently I never even knew much about their business decisions, because there didn't seem to be any. Almost everything they've released until a few years ago was received with high or even near universal critical acclaim. When everything is going well, you generally do not need to worry about the business, you just keep on making good games. But when things get bad, that's when you need to stop and reflect. Business decisions do not only affect the company. Bad business, after all, means the customers were not satisfied.

If you enjoy a changing game more than a new one, I can't really argue with that, but I don't feel the same way. I don't feel that close to SE to make their journey my own, I prefer to restrict my journey to within one game, rather than tie it to the game's conception and creation. (And regardless, that does not excuse what they did to this game in the process. They should never have neglected XI the way they did, but because they kept actively working and maintaining XIV, while remaking it completely, almost equals working on two different games.)


Ten years from now I'll have fonder memories while I play a great game titled XIV that inspired so much heated commentary before it finally took off than I would be playing one called XVI and thinking "remember that XIV one that sucked."

But see, that's the thing, I'll still remember how XIV sucked. I also still remember what sucked about XI at first, it's not like they can erase the past with what they do. Sure, you may be able to look past it and think about how much it improved since then, but I'd be just as pleased with a new journey presented to me, without having bad memories attached.


I can't even be bothered to read your mammoth of a post, I've made my point that some people will just be stubborn and won't regard anything as good because its not a remake of your beloved FFXI.

Then why are you still talking to me? If you just don't wanna read my reply, but keep insulting me, you're that kid who puts their fingers in their ears and sings aloud, pretending not to hear any criticism. Shows just how seriously one should take your opinion.

Everything you said is bullshit, and I already said why. I do not cling to FFXI, I've mentioned that I'd welcome a better alternative. Neither have I ever said that FFXIV will not be good, I said specifically that I do not care how good it is and that its quality is not the reason why I hate it. Before you want to reply in the future, read what's being said, and if you are unable to do that, just stay out of the discussion.

[Mulch]

Playing both at the moment it is possible to play both at the same time lol

[Mulch]

I think the topic was made more or less because people will choose to leave FFXI for FFXIV based on the beta most likely. If the beta does not live up to their expectations, they may very well call it quits on FFXIV and just keep going with FFXI, on the other hand if the beta is amazing, they will likely plan to say goodbye to FFXI when the release for FFXIV approaches. I doubt people would actually leave the game for a beta, as it has been said in this thread a few times, however if the beta is good, I can easily see people getting ready to pack their virtual bags in preparation for FFXIV once they see how good the beta is.

Ahh indeed well then as far as that goes the beta is quite enjoyable and only getting better but if population decreases they will just do a server merge :D

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Playing both at the moment it is possible to play both at the same time lol

If you call AFK'ing in a book burn "playing," then sure. Otherwise, Dynamis currency won't farm itself.

[Jaall]

Lol I don't think they meant literally! You can play FFXI for an hour and FFXIV for an hour, both games seem to have activities that are suitable for the casual player, and of course if you have more time then win-win really! you shouldn't ever be limited to only one game and if you are it's kinda your own doing.