New Jobs info released

[Alhanelem]

Edit: topic title was fixed, thanks mods :)

Apparently when they had the FFXIV media tour, some FFXI news came along with it- Weirdly enough, as part of their FFXIV tour coverage, Massively also posted an article about the new jobs in FFXI:

http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/02/21/massively-exclusive-an-in-depth-look-at-final-fantasy-xis-new/

Enjoy. Some specific details including magic learned by both jobs (yes both jobs) is included.

for the people saying geomancer is going to suck because the luopans take aoe damage, It sounds as though they've thought of this and give you ways to protect them:


For example, if you need to change your luopan effect before the item ticks down, you can use Full Circle to wipe it away. Or you can use Lasting Emanation to keep it in place longer. Ecliptic gives your next cast a shorter duration but a larger effect, while Life Cycle allows you to sacrifice your own health and heal your luopan proportionally. Dematerialize lets you briefly shield your luopan from any damage, and Concentric Pulse lets you detonate the luopan for an AoE damage effect while giving you the chance to put down a replacement.The rest I'll let you all read yourselves.

[Zhronne]

Pretty nice article, altough a part left me kinda wondering:


FFXI has two tank classes in the game at the moment: the Paladin, which shines against targets that hit quickly and weakly, and the Ninja, which shines against big slow hits. (Then you have classes like Warrior and Dancer, which shine at tanking when you need a tank and you have no other options.) The Rune Fencer is meant to complete the trifecta by bringing something new to the table. Rather than focusing on physical damage, the Rune Fencer is at its best against magical attacks, stopping casters dead and slicing through elemental strengths and weaknesses like butter.

This seems to be describing the FFXI situation as it SHOULD BE maybe, because it's totally not how it is and with how common relics have become as of late, an Aegis PLD will laugh in the face of a Runefencer able to only absorb one element per time.
Unless they're gonna nerf Aegis but... that would cause major drama.

[Alhanelem]

This seems to be describing the FFXI situation as it SHOULD BE maybe, because it's totally not how it is and with how common relics have become as of late, an Aegis PLD will laugh in the face of a Runefencer able to only absorb one element per time.i don't know about that- there are a lot of NMs that focus entirely or mostly on one element. It also seems like RNF will probably be a bit stronger as a melee than PLD.

I had figured the job wouldn't use magic at all itself but I guess I was wrong.

[Zhronne]

It's cool, depending on the level RNF gets all those spells it could also become a nice option as a sub for other jobs?


Anyway, getting back IT to what I was saying yes Alha u're right, but "some mobs" or even "many mobs" ain't "all mobs".
Magic damage taken -50% all of the time, no matter what, against any kind of magic damage, without you having to spend resources (runes) or MP or cast time or having to swap between different resistances.
Actually we're talking about being at 87,5% reduction practically all of the time. That's insane.
Even with mobs that permadispel your Shell V I'm sure a PLD with 99 Aegis could still sit close to 80% reduction without any particularly big compromises in gear. To all of this add that PLD would be taking a lot less physical damage as well, with all the mitigation coming from the shield itself, the blocks etc.

Now RNF has a Shell V that becomes sorta useless if you're using the right rune, but gives you 100% immunity toward that element.
~13% difference, with a lot of effort and a single element per time (what about non-elemental magic?). Also with the cranky mechanic of enspell.
What if an enemy gets healed by lightning damage and casts water damage? You'd be healing it with your melee hits while attempting to shield yourself from the Water Damage.


I'm not trying to dig RNF down, if anything I'm saying that SE did a mistake making Aegis so strong that it's gonna be really hard creating another job focusing on reducing magic damage and make it noticeably better than an Aegis PLD in the same situations.
I really hope SE will be able to surprise me, but atm I'm really skeptic.

[Alhanelem]

I understand what you're saying but not everyone can achieve that level of MDT-.

I don't expect RNF to be a "better" tank than PLD, but to be better for specific fights. IMO that's fine- Odds are a number of specific fights will be made drastically easier by RNF, while others it wont be much help. If only the jobs I play now had specific fights where they were actually wanted...

[Yinnyth]

I'm a little bit confused about what the author of that article is saying geomancers get when he says they get elemental spells up to tier IV and the -ra line of spells. Does he mean -ga or -ja perhaps? Because the only spells with the -ra suffix in the game are whm's barspells.... and maybe kaustra...

[Yinnyth]

I understand what you're saying but not everyone can achieve that level of MDT-.

I don't expect RNF to be a "better" tank than PLD, but to be better for specific fights. IMO that's fine- Odds are a number of specific fights will be made drastically easier by RNF, while others it wont be much help. If only the jobs I play now had specific fights where they were actually wanted...

It also sounds like RNF will be better at supporting other players than PLD. Since they can give elemental absorb to a player (though I can't imagine this would actually be a 100% proc rate thing... would it?), they could keep one VIP immune to... let's say citadel buster. It really sounds like RNF gets a better cover mechanic, though I'd really like to see it expanded upon.

I'm also very curious how high their elemental resists will go. It's possible that the appeal of RNF might not be in how little damage they take, but their ability to laugh off status effects. If an enemy spams a stunga WS, RNF would be a better DD than anyone who can't resist the stun.

[Demon6324236]

I'm a little bit confused about what the author of that article is saying geomancers get when he says they get elemental spells up to tier IV and the -ra line of spells. Does he mean -ga or -ja perhaps? Because the only spells with the -ra suffix in the game are whm's barspells.... and maybe kaustra...Probably, it wouldn't be the only error...
Rune Fencers do not have a shield skill; Great Swords are their primary weapons. They learn several white magic spells, including Stoneskin, Aquaveil, and Shell up to V (compared to their highest Protect spell at Protect IV). They also gain access to the various black magic spikes as well as Flash, Phalanx, Regen, Refresh, and Blink.

[Rwolf]

I don't see that as an error in terms of incorrect information, it's just written poorly in description. The author stated "black magic spikes" as one category instead of listing out Blaze, Ice, Shock and possibly Dread. And instead of categorizing the same with white magic buffs, the author listed them out, possibly to focus on the odd fact that they have Divine Magic's Flash and regenerative spells, Regen and Refresh.

-ra line isn't an error. They stated they were adding a new line of elemental magic back when Geomancer was announced. (i.e. Fira, Blizzara, Thundara). No idea if they are Geomancer specific or any other details.

[Alhanelem]

I tried to get the topic title changed to be a little more clear but my request was apparently misunderstood by the moderator. :p

Anyway, Rwolf is right, they did mention a new line of ele magic for Geomancer.

The article pointed out that geomancer has a reputation for sucking in the series. Is that really accurate? It was good in Tactics (the article mentions this as a sole exception) and it was also good in Tactics A2. I don't really know about any other games though.

[Pebe]

It was said that Geomancer would be getting its own line of spells named -ra a while back. If you look at the seekers of adulin website at the cardinal cast section I think we see one being cast. Perhaps Thundra.

[Merton9999]

Wow, nice new info. Thanks for the link Alhanelem.

I'm liking GEO even more now. My favorite aspect of SCH is that I don't just cast spells. Every cast is accompanied by a trade-off customization process. I feared with GEO that it would just be cyclical buffs and debuffs with position thrown in. Adding all these job abilities in the mix that affect luopans is promising for the overall thought process of the job.

I agree about the -ra not being a typo. It was mentioned and speculated upon during Vanafest. Some people thought it would be a new nuking line (Blizzara, etc.), some mentioned existing AOE bar spells. My personal hope is that it's both. After the first 40 levels of SCH consisting mainly of watching spells I already knew show up in the magic list as I leveled up, I hope GEO nuking spells will be new, even if not unique to them. I also hope GEO will finally be the job that gets the dual element bar spells that have been in the dats forever.

[Demon6324236]

I don't see that as an error in terms of incorrect information, it's just written poorly in description. The author stated "black magic spikes" as one category instead of listing out Blaze, Ice, Shock and possibly Dread. And instead of categorizing the same with white magic buffs, the author listed them out, possibly to focus on the odd fact that they have Divine Magic's Flash and regenerative spells, Regen and Refresh.Sorry that was a reading error on my part, thought it said Black Magic spells. In either case its fairly weird that they put white magic then a single set of black magic spells then more white magic. In either case, I have to admit this job seems more and more annoying to RDM as a replacement... I mean, enspells, refresh, phalanx, magic defense tanking(RDMs old job before Aegis PLD was common)...

[Merton9999]

I tried to get the topic title changed to be a little more clear but my request was apparently misunderstood by the moderator. :p

Anyway, Rwolf is right, they did mention a new line of ele magic for Geomancer.

The article pointed out that geomancer has a reputation for sucking in the series. Is that really accurate? It was good in Tactics (the article mentions this as a sole exception) and it was also good in Tactics A2. I don't really know about any other games though.

I love Geomancer in Tactics. That game is the reason I always wanted the job added to XI. V's implementation was comical, imo. It was an interesting concept but in practice I never found much use for it. You can probably count mog in VI as a geomancer as well. Some of his dances were powerful but the random aspect made me hate using him.

If there's anything I'm relieved about in this implementation of GEO it's the lack of random effects and effects based on terrain. I'd much rather position be used - it still fits the theme of location but it's something I can control. I wouldn't mind spell acquisition based on travel/terrain though.

[Tennotsukai]

I don't see that as an error in terms of incorrect information, it's just written poorly in description. The author stated "black magic spikes" as one category instead of listing out Blaze, Ice, Shock and possibly Dread. And instead of categorizing the same with white magic buffs, the author listed them out, possibly to focus on the odd fact that they have Divine Magic's Flash and regenerative spells, Regen and Refresh.

-ra line isn't an error. They stated they were adding a new line of elemental magic back when Geomancer was announced. (i.e. Fira, Blizzara, Thundara). No idea if they are Geomancer specific or any other details.

Good info, I really hope Dread Spikes will be given to RNF. Just one spell to benefit them against physical attacks.

[Seyomeyo]

I'm a little bit confused about what the author of that article is saying geomancers get when he says they get elemental spells up to tier IV and the -ra line of spells. Does he mean -ga or -ja perhaps? Because the only spells with the -ra suffix in the game are whm's barspells.... and maybe kaustra...

It's been stated already that GEO will get its own line of -ra elemental magic

[wildsprite]

thanks Alhanelemthat was a good article, I'm really looking forward to GEO and RNF is looking interesting enough to make me curious about it

[SpankWustler]

The two new jobs sound like a lot of fun. In particular, I'm excited about Rune Fencer's ability to shield others from elemental damage and Geomancer's job abilities that fine-tune the performance of Luopans and even blow them up for damage.

I notice a couple of things that sound really uncomfortable for them, though. Well, other than current absence of difficult monsters that attack with only one magical element and the current presence of Area of Effect Everything when fighting a difficult monster. Those are more FFXI-wide than job-specific.

Anyways, time to complain like somebody's great-uncle with a fear of the future and a full colostomy bag!


Rune Enchantment has a five-second cooldown and can stack several times, which gives the class some of the flavor of the Dancer when you consider that you can consume your stacked runes for an overall effect.

Job-ability delay, which the Development Bros have never even acknowledged thus far, is going to be a big problem for Rune Fencer. Between using Runes and casting, Rune Fencer has the potential to spend half its existence slogging through delay periods.

I worry that because of this delay Rune Fencer will turn out much like Dancer, which performs best in groups when played as an Anointed Monk of the Order of the Poking Dagger. Rather than being played like a Rune Fencer with a heap of unique abilities, job ability delay may force Rune Fencer to be played much like a Warrior with only the very strongest abilities being used when necessary.


Indicolure spells give the character a buff that extends out around the player, affecting all enemies or allies within the area of effect.

With the initial information from Vanafest, it sounded like these buffs could be centered on any player but there hasn't been any mention of that recently. If these can only be stuck on the Geomancer, that's going to make Indicolure melee buffs and Indicolure enfeebling effects really annoying to maintain.

Mages in FFXI are oddly more durable than melee overall, and may become even tougher if the defense update makes defense food relevant and no powerful mage food is added. Still, there's the matter of casting interruption and status ailments if a mage has to idle amongst the melee. Oh, oh, the status ailments Geomancer will know!

Enfeebling through Indicolure, in particular, seems suspect. You want to use an Indicolure effect to paralyze a monster? It will show you the true meaning of paralysis as all your Geomancer job abilities are lost to the void of "...is paralyzed." The monster might even put up an Amnesia or Silence aura if you don't get the message right away!

[Zhronne]

I'm also very curious how high their elemental resists will go.
I assumed it would just grant them immunity to spells of that element, which means debuffs too.
You can stack it several times, maybe it's complete immunity (like Fool's drink) when you have the max amount of stacks?

Potentially too powerful, depends on how easy/fast it is to swap the elemental thing and keep it up.

[Merton9999]

If these can only be stuck on the Geomancer, that's going to make Indocolure melee buffs and Indocolure enfeebling effects really annoying to maintain.

I've been concerned with this since Vanafest, but I'm a little more hopeful now. We'll have both Indicolure and Geocolure to choose from, with Geocolure based on Luopans that can be put anywhere. If auras and mass AOEs continue to be a problem, I assume it's the Geocolure spells we'll use for buffing the front line or enfeebling the mob, while we hang in the back with Indicolure around us. The article says one of each can be maintained.

That may mean that certain enfeebles and enhancements will be impossible for battles with the more smelly NMs, depending on what is put into each category. Hopefully what we're left with will still be worth it and not limit the job to the exact same two effects for every such battle. I really don't want another two-song-only situation.

I'm hoping the article is right though, and that SE will be changing the game in more ways than one. The whole front-line + back-line organization is getting old ... well ... got old years ago. I'd love to see battle mechanics changed to allow mages closer to the mob. I hope GEO and RUN allow this instead of descending further down the path that has only gotten much worse lately.

[Yinnyth]

Thanks to everyone who pointed out the -ra magic for geomancers- I had completely forgotten that they would be getting their own unique line of spells in addition to normal nukes and auras.


Job-ability delay, which the Development Bros have never even acknowledged just far, is going to be a big problem for Rune Fencer. Between using Runes and casting, Rune Fencer has the potential to spend half its existence slogging through delay periods.

Nitpicking here, but there actually was one situation where the devs tweaked JA delay a few years back. They decreased how long Quick Draw leaves you locked in movement. I've never seen any tests done though, so it most likely still locks you out of swinging a melee weapon just as long as any other JA, so your concerns are still completely valid.


I'm hoping the article is right though, and that SE will be changing the game in more ways than one. The whole front-line + back-line organization is getting old ... well ... got old years ago. I'd love to see battle mechanics changed to allow mages closer to the mob. I hope GEO and RUN allow this instead of descending further down the path that has only gotten much worse lately.

Many battles you can stand close. ADL, it's practically mandatory so he doesn't throw you off his porch like a grumpy, old Superman. It's just your bard will hate you for standing in the fray if the battle lasts longer than 6 minutes.

[SpankWustler]

Nitpicking here, but there actually was one situation where the devs tweaked JA delay a few years back. They decreased how long Quick Draw leaves you locked in movement. I've never seen any tests done though, so it most likely still locks you out of swinging a melee weapon just as long as any other JA, so your concerns are still completely valid.

I've always thought that the stop in movement is just related to an animation rather than the actual ability usage, given that it's very possible to *WINK WINK* *NUDGE NUDGE* "do stuff about that" client-side in regards to being stopped by animations. There's no known high or low road around that pause in melee combat.

Then again, my skill with anything technical is about one level above that of a teething child chewing on a keyboard. I probably rank about the same as a monkey with a typewriter who is beaten every time he makes a four-page dong out of letters and numbers instead of writing some tiny part of a masterpiece.

[Trumpy]

i didnt read the whole post but when i read GEO gettin a aura spell around themselves to apply weight to mobs. i was imagining GEO kiting along with a mob and how annoying that would be to maintain especially when mobs cheat and run up cliffs we cant or 2 inch ledges we cant seem to climb.

I believe THFs used to be able to change armor when they fleed and could keep running when using it. but for DNC there was a stop to movement put in on purpose. i think it forces you to not blink until the JA animation is done or something.

[Yinnyth]

i didnt read the whole post but when i read GEO gettin a aura spell around themselves to apply weight to mobs. i was imagining GEO kiting along with a mob and how annoying that would be to maintain especially when mobs cheat and run up cliffs we cant or 2 inch ledges we cant seem to climb.

I believe THFs used to be able to change armor when they fleed and could keep running when using it. but for DNC there was a stop to movement put in on purpose. i think it forces you to not blink until the JA animation is done or something.

You can make a macro to change into AF shoes before using flee, then flee, than change out of those shoes, but there is no legal way around animation delay.

[Demon6324236]

Some JAs and WSs force the animation, others do not it seems. For instance I use Composure on the move quite often during a gear swap and am never forced to stop moving. The same goes with spell animations when cast on yourself or others, if the spell goes off while the swap is in action then there is no pause, you are free to move as soon as it finishes, or in reality, about 1 second early. Some other ones such as Jigs require the animation be done, no matter how many swaps you do, the animation WILL go off at some point.

In your example I assume the delay you are talking about is moving, not attacking, the attacking delay is unavoidable.

[Horadrim]

Probably, it wouldn't be the only error...

? I don't understand the error in what you highlighted...

[Horadrim]

Thanks to everyone who pointed out the -ra magic for geomancers- I had completely forgotten that they would be getting their own unique line of spells in addition to normal nukes and auras.



Nitpicking here, but there actually was one situation where the devs tweaked JA delay a few years back. They decreased how long Quick Draw leaves you locked in movement. I've never seen any tests done though, so it most likely still locks you out of swinging a melee weapon just as long as any other JA, so your concerns are still completely valid.



Many battles you can stand close. ADL, it's practically mandatory so he doesn't throw you off his porch like a grumpy, old Superman. It's just your bard will hate you for standing in the fray if the battle lasts longer than 6 minutes.

JA's have always taken a disgusting amount of time -- that's one of PUP's big problems too, having to adjust maneuvers eats into their DPS hard.

I'd like to see them do something aobut tihs -- I don't see RNF being able to keep upping their buffs AND doing DPS.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

eats into their DPS hard.

Imagine a game where DPS wasn't the only stat that mattered...

I know I know, crazy talk.

[Zhronne]

If they fix the enmity thing for good and give RNF reliable and powerful means to gain and keep enmity other than damage, then RNF's DPS will start to matter much less.
Until then, it's hard to pretend it doesn't matter and to point the finger at people who say it does, judging them elitists or sheeps.

[Horadrim]

Imagine a game where DPS wasn't the only stat that mattered...

I know I know, crazy talk.

I wish FFXI was one of those games. I've always done the tihng that seemed the most fun and interesting -- I leveled PUP because I liked the concept of the job and ended up with 1,000,000+ EXP on a job I never get to use for anything at all. :/'

Mind you, my PUP was 75 and largely merited before Abyssea was even a think.

[Demon6324236]

? I don't understand the error in what you highlighted...I misread, I thought it said...


black magic SPELLS as well as Flash, Phalanx, Regen, Refresh, and Blink.

Instead it says...


black magic SPIKES as well as Flash, Phalanx, Regen, Refresh, and Blink.

The way they worded it messed with me since they were talking about white magic right before it, I assumed everything after "black magic" would be, ya know, black magic related.

[Alhanelem]

The way they worded it messed with me since they were talking about white magic right before it, I assumed everything after "black magic" would be, ya know, black magic related. , even the way you read it, there's nothing wrong with what was written, because of the key words "As well as..." making it read as "black magic spells in addition to also having <list of white magic>"

[Demon6324236]

It just seems kinda weird to say 5~6 white spells, then 1 detail about black spells, then a bunch more white spells, you have to admit its a bit weird to word it that way. Or at least it seems that way to me.

[hideka]

I tried to get the topic title changed to be a little more clear but my request was apparently misunderstood by the moderator. :p

Anyway, Rwolf is right, they did mention a new line of ele magic for Geomancer.

The article pointed out that geomancer has a reputation for sucking in the series. Is that really accurate? It was good in Tactics (the article mentions this as a sole exception) and it was also good in Tactics A2. I don't really know about any other games though.

from the time you get geomance in the ff3 remake untill the time you kill cloud of darkness, geomancer can dish out absolutely insane damage. it only falls to the wayside due to there being zero decent endgame cloth/leather pieces in 3. Geomancer was great in Tactics and Tactics A2. Geomancer was absoultely worthless in FF5 with the exception of like one dungeon. it was Stupid good in FF6, specially cause a moogle was using it.... i cant think of more "bad" geomancer experiences over good ones.

[Yinnyth]

, even the way you read it, there's nothing wrong with what was written, because of the key words "As well as..." making it read as "black magic spells in addition to also having <list of white magic>"

I'll be honest, the first time I read through that portion, I got a little bit confused as well. It took me about 4 reads before I understood what the author of that article was trying to convey when he was listing the spells that rune fencer gets. I think my problem is that I've never heard them referred to as "black magic spikes" before, so my mind got stuck on that part trying to rationalize it.

At one point my mind even convinced me the author meant "spikes" as in "large, rapid increase in damage", which I then converted into "black magic nukes" thinking the author was stupid for putting it that way. Then I finally understood it and still thought it was a weird way to structure the sentence.

[Alhanelem]

"black magic spikes" means blaze spikes, lightning spikes, and ice spikes.

[saevel]

It just seems kinda weird to say 5~6 white spells, then 1 detail about black spells, then a bunch more white spells, you have to admit its a bit weird to word it that way. Or at least it seems that way to me.

Their all enhancing magic. My guess is the job will have both white and black magic enhancing spells that it casts on itself. Knowing SE they'll give them a ~A rank enhancing with Temper and the Gain-Stat spells.

[Demon6324236]

Their all enhancing magic. My guess is the job will have both white and black magic enhancing spells that it casts on itself. Knowing SE they'll give them a ~A rank enhancing with Temper and the Gain-Stat spells.At this point I wouldn't doubt it, Rune seems to have stolen everything RDM had left before 90 was broken that was not already stolen before that. Enspells, Phalanx, Magic Defense Tanking, Refresh, I mean really they get spells of their own too I'm sure, not just old ones, so for all we know RUN may have more unique spells for itself than RDM has, after all, we already know it will have more JAs, not as if thats saying much though seeing as RDM gets a massive 5.

[Tennotsukai]

RNF may not hurt Rdm like a lot think. They may give haste 2 and other new spells to rdm as well since they were talking about it.

[Demon6324236]

See though, we have no reason to believe they will. They have given no info on new spells for RDM. Everything in the last couple years that is not a self-only buff has been shared with other jobs not long after release. Its highly likely that if they give RDM new spells, something will get it too. Rune is simply taking the last of what we really have to offer right now, so I think if we get something new that is not simply a self-buff, something else will get it as well. If, or when, SE choses to specifically address the fact RDM has went to hell, and they say they will add things, I will accept that perhaps in a few months we will be ok, until they stop updating us about it, and it never actually happens.

I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but if you look at the RDM forums, you can see just how little hope there is, we have had no real dev posts that give RDM any hope at returning to a level of real use. The most beneficial things we hear about, are blanket adjustments, such as the Healing magic adjustment, or the currently proposed Elemental magic adjustment. Adjustments like Enfeebling magic were also blanketed, and that one failed to help RDM as SE said it would because it made RDM even less needed for hard enfeebles to stick. Immunobreak was meant to help RDM land their Enfeebling magic more easily on resistant mobs, instead, now every job can land them easier, calling for RDM to be used even less for that job.

[Tennotsukai]

They did state they are looking into haste 2 for rdm and more enfeebles; however, I understand your point completely. SE has been very persistent in neglecting a job that used to shine.

[Ramaza]

They did state they are looking into haste 2 for rdm and more enfeebles; however, I understand your point completely. SE has been very persistent in neglecting a job that used to shine.

With RNF getting En-spells and Refresh we have no reason to believe that they won't take away our merit spells and give them to other jobs at this point. I'm trying to believe the glass is half full at this point, but its becoming real hard when the only sign of any RDM additions we'll be getting is an Elemental Seal+1 that no one wants. I'd just like to sit it in on a design team meeting once just to get an idea of how they think jobs are playing out versus what the community already knows/is seeing.

[Ramaza]

The biggest thing that worries me right now is the defense of the Luopans that a player puts up around a players who are engaged. With the developers fandom for god shattering AoE's I don't think they'd survive very long in events like VW and Legion. I wish they'd release some vids of the jobs in action soon. It's almost time they did as a matter of fact. It's getting close to the release of the expansion and we've not heard much.