unbalanced?

[Clou777]

not sure why sch has access to tier V nukes at lv99 yet only up to tier IV cures

[Zagen]

Because SCH isn't meant to replace WHM in content where a WHM is needed. Just like how having Tier V nukes doesn't make them able to replace BLM where a BLM is needed.

[Demon6324236]

Also... a SCH can cure with a Cure IV as well as a WHM can cure with Cure V already, if SCH had Cure V then it could cure for more with V and a WHM does with VI, which would be completely overpowered.

[Economizer]

Because SCH isn't meant to replace WHM in content where a WHM is needed.

Ha!

(Okay the second part I don't quote is a good point, but in the majority of situations where procs aren't involved a SCH can replace a White Mage.)


not sure why sch has access to tier V nukes at lv99 yet only up to tier IV cures

As experienced healers will tell you, in the majority of situations a White Mage never casts Cure V. Cure III and IV are the main things to cast.

Given that Cure III and IV cure roughly 450 and 850 HP a piece even in only decently geared White Mages, they heal enough to do it all, and they're more MP efficient then Cure V by a fairly wide margin.

I'm sure you could get a Red Mage to complain to you that they only heal roughly 430 and 810 HP with their Cure III/IVs, and they don't get Afflatus Solace (the more terrible ones will complain about said White Mages being able to use Convert without realizing they're all WHM/SCH).

But these Red Mages aren't Scholars. They don't get Light Arts Regen buffs, they don't get Regen III let along Regen V, and they don't get Aurorastorm (you know who also doesn't get Regen V, Light Arts Regen buffs and Aurorastorm? White Mages).

Let's first focus on that light weather buff. Aurorastorm with your obi and your Twilight Cape should give you a 15% multiplicative boost to cures. This means your Cure III and Cure IV will be doing roughly 510 and 950 HP with just your cure potency set and capped Healing Magic skill - stack more Healing Magic skill and you can be curing over 1000 HP with a Cure IV.

As if that wasn't enough (and note that Cure III and IV with just Afflatus Solace are often enough for White Mages), you also get Regen spells that are actually worth using.

A White Mage will cast a Regen IV (their highest tier, but not Scholar's) for about 30HP/tic. With gear they can improve this to an extra 10HP/tic and net an extra 5 tics, although most White Mages only carry the AF3 gloves with provide the extra 5 tics. They can also merit it to provide an extra 5HP/tic, although they'd have to sacrifice better merit choices for it (basically, only a dumb White Mage would do this). So at best 45HP/tic Regen IV lasts 75 seconds or 25 tics and wastes valuable merits and a slot of inventory space. And on top of all this, it isn't MP efficient compared to cures!

A Scholar on the other hand walks in with a Regen V that they can Accession, Perpetuance, get Light Arts buffs on, and even get an even bigger boost under Tabula Rasa. With just a standard cast it cures 69HP/tic while using Light Arts and the correct gear, and lasts 36 tics. Run the strats on it and you're taking a single cast for the whole party and the spell lasts 90 tics (about four and a half minutes). Thus stratagems will make this spell will even wipe the floor with White Mage's single target cures under ideal conditions in terms of MP efficiency, and the tics do cure enough to lighten healing load.

I'd also like to take this opportunity to remind players that Cure VI sucked before the cure formula changes, sucks more now because they actually nerfed it despite it sucking then, and now Cure V sucks by comparison to Cure III/IV for White Mages.

[Zagen]

Ha!

(Okay the second part I don't quote is a good point, but in the majority of situations where procs aren't involved a SCH can replace a White Mage.)
It's funny you found my BLM statement to have merit when the only thing BLM has over SCH that is relevant to events a BLM would be brought to is procs.

[Demon6324236]

Let's first focus on that light weather buff. Aurorastorm with your obi and your Twilight Cape should give you a 15% multiplicative boost to cures. This means your Cure III and Cure IV will be doing roughly 510 and 950 HP with just your cure potency set and capped Healing Magic skill - stack more Healing Magic skill and you can be curing over 1000 HP with a Cure IV.I just want to point out that in the optimum set its actually higher, because you can use Chatoyant instead of Arka which will net you another 10% weather bonus, meaning if you are keeping up weather like a good SCH and you use Obi+Cape+Chat you get a nice 25% bonus on your cures from that, not to mention your 50% from other gear, which puts Cure IV even higher, and above a normal 50% Cure Potency WHM's Cure V I believe.

[Economizer]

I just want to point out that in the optimum set its actually higher, because you can use Chatoyant instead of Arka which will net you another 10% weather bonus, meaning if you are keeping up weather like a good SCH and you use Obi+Cape+Chat you get a nice 25% bonus on your cures from that, not to mention your 50% from other gear, which puts Cure IV even higher, and above a normal 50% Cure Potency WHM's Cure V I believe.

I was actually aiming for a set that was easier to achieve then that, although I should have listed the Chatoyant Staff cure potency numbers for a maximum - admittedly it slipped my mind and I had forgot about the possibility.

If I am calculating correctly, with a perfect set the 25% weather bonus is better then the 35% cureskin bonus White Mage can get by a small amount.


It's funny you found my BLM statement to have merit when the only thing BLM has over SCH that is relevant to events a BLM would be brought to is procs.

I think there was some sort of overarching and clever point I had thought of involving that when I was typing my original comment, but it is slipping my mind. All I can remember right now is that while I wanted to highlight the gap between White Mage and Scholar to be roughly null, I found your comment somehow insightful.

I'm sure I'll be able to remember when White Mage can remove Amnesia.

[Cabalabob]

I find it funny that sch can out cure whm with a lower tier of cure but it can't out nuke blm with the same tier, I think sch should get more sch specific weather bonus gear like the twilight cape, it would stop all the complaining about how everyone gets storm spells cause sch would be able to make theirs stronger, and it would give sch a way to buff it's nukes/cures outside of MaB an cure potency to help it reach the numbers that blm can pull off with nukes.

[Demon6324236]

SCH can out nuke a BLM/RDM or BLM/SCH with Thunder V but the cast speed is much slower due to BLM having Elemental Celerity. SCH can not out nuke a BLM/SCH because they have access to Hailstorm, and can end up accessing the weather bonus for their spell. SCH can easily out nuke a BLM in pure numbers in any situation I believe, they simply require Ebullience to do it, between the Emp+2 Head and Ebullience you are getting +30% damage, between weather, obi, Twilight Cape, Klimaform, Loafers, possibly Chatoyant, you are getting 25~35% damage.

The problem with SCH nuking is that eventually you run out of strats and then become much weaker and slower. Till you are out of strats you can use Alacrity to make up for Elemental Celerity and use Ebullience to boost numbers enough to easily out do BLM with pure damage. Just without those 2 SCH falls behind in overall DPS. In all honesty I think SCH is perfectly balanced like that. Its enough to make it a good nuking job, but not enough to completely crush BLM.

So far as SCH getting more gear for weather bonus, really they should just add Tier II storms that give the effect of double weather, that way its only for SCH and the bonus still exists for SCH. Adding more gear for it simply leads to it being out dated after time. For instance look at the Savant Loafers +2, they used to be the god of feet for SCH with the right weather up because it gives +10% damage to the element of weather you are effected by while you have Klimaform up. However with the Neo-Salvage gear it has been said that Morrigan's +1 Feet are just slightly behind them, only a bit more INT or MAB and the Loafers will be out done. This is one of those unique weather bonus pieces, that will no longer be of use. Thats why its preferable to use a new spell for the bonus instead, you can out date gear with better gear, same with spells, and if you add a new set of spells at 99, the final level cap(for now at very least), then its not going to be outdated till they break that cap and make another tier.

[Arcon]

I find it funny that sch can out cure whm with a lower tier of cure but it can't out nuke blm with the same tier [..]

BLM can out nuke BLM with ease. Not with a single nuke (unless you use Ebullience, in which case BLM can't even get close), but over time.

[Demon6324236]

BLM can out nuke BLM with ease. Not with a single nuke (unless you use Ebullience, in which case BLM can't even get close), but over time.Umm~ BLM can out nuke BLM?

In either case its time which kills SCH. BLM has no JAs it must rely on for speed or power, SCH needs Alacrity or Ebullience to put it above BLM because BLM has the ability to cap Cast Time Reduction where as SCH can not, in the best possible SCH Fast Cast set you get around 60% now I think, where as BLM has a native 50% and can use gear to easily cap. Once strats run out SCH loses some speed, BLM ends up casting almost twice as fast which puts its DPS a lot higher. This comes back on BLM though when they run out of MP, so without a stable way to keep their MP up they eventually lose out again.

BLM's real advantage over SCH is sadly AoE spells, kinda like how WHM has their Curaga spells over SCH, but WHM has more than just that going for them while BLM really doesn't.

[Arcon]

Umm~ BLM can out nuke BLM?

My bad, was obviously supposed to be "SCH can out nuke BLM".


In either case its time which kills SCH.

Judging by the rest of your post, you mean BLM with this?

[Demon6324236]

SCH starts out with the ability to cast faster than BLM, and/or much harder than BLM. As they consume strats they lose that ability, where BLM is still hitting cast time reduction cap, SCH is slower, and only nuking for slightly more. Until the BLM's MP runs out, once the SCH has no strats the BLM pulls far ahead in DPS because they cast casting at nearly twice the speed of the SCH. Thats why I said time kills SCH, because originally, it starts more powerful than BLM, but if you wait 3~7 nukes then the SCH runs out of strats, and after that point is when BLM starts pulling ahead. In a short fight, SCH will not likely run out of strats quickly enough for it to lose to BLM, but in a long fight, if the BLM can keep their MP up then the BLM will end up being the more powerful of the 2 because it is a constant and sustained power rather than 1 which relies on JAs to fuel it.

[Arcon]

Ah, that's how you meant it. It doesn't really compare, though, because the BLM will always run out of MP before the SCH runs out of Stratagems. And when that happens, the BLM is entirely screwed. "Keeping MP up" is not possible. Nukes cost about 250 MP per cast on BLM (assuming Thunder V at 40% Conserve MP rate), and can be cast with mere seconds in between (on both BLM and SCH). A 1.5k MP pool would be depleted in less than two minutes. And up until that point, the BLM is winning. However, that's when the tides turn, because SCH can get an insane amount of Refresh and 2.5 times as many Stratagems, which they can use to further reduce MP cost.

I never even considered using Alacrity for casts, because cast time hardly makes a difference in that short of a time span. Unless you're fighting a mob you can actually kill in a few nukes, that wouldn't be a good strategy (or if you're fighting a mob deserving of Tabula Rasa, in which case BLM doesn't even stand a remote chance). And if that's the case, you can use Ebullience to get on par with the BLM for damage over time. On the other hand, if you're in for the long run, Parsimony will be your friend, and a very dear friend at that. Coupled with Sublimation and a respectable idle Refresh set, SCH will get a MP recovery rate unlike any other mage (not counting BRD). 11 MP/tick from Sublimation coupled with 5 MP/tick Auto Refresh means essentially 16MP/tick on your own, on top of Stratagems.

So once BLM blew their ammunition (MP), SCH will start pulling ahead, unless they knew from the start it was a short battle, in which case the SCH could play differently to still beat the BLM in the same time period.

[Merton9999]

I would have joined the Cure V train years ago, not expecting the people who developed the bag of lemons that was the 76-99 spells/abilities to pull off anything more creative to bump up light arts tasks. I was wrong though. With Regen V, faster regen casting, LA bonus to regen potency, new gear that boost cure potency and reduces casting time, and overall healing magic changes, I'm perfectly happy with SCH curing now in every event I bring it to.

Playing both BLM and SCH as well, I agree with Arcon. While my SCH is running out of strats my BLM is running out of MP, which is worse. I wouldn't have said this as much in Abyssea, but outside it matters a lot. I bring BLM when I want procs and AOE nukes.

[Siiri]

I agree its unbalanced. Time to take T5 nukes away from scholar.

[Economizer]

I would have joined the Cure V train years ago, not expecting the people who developed the bag of lemons that was the 76-99 spells/abilities to pull off anything more creative to bump up light arts tasks.

I remember a few years ago when everyone at the time was begging for Cure V, and the main justification was Cure VI. At the time you'd notice that with every level cap increase and every moment less spend inside Abyssea just how horrible Cure VI was if you spent any amount of time actually playing White Mage (I remember spamming between Cure IV/V being more then adequate to main heal almost anything shortly before the changes with cure recasts being the only constraint that held this back), so it really puzzled me about the justification when it was really obvious that the problem had more to do with the cure formula, and how it desperately needed changes to scale a little better.

I'd like to take a moment for thanking everyone who supported the changes over giving out Cure V as a change, although I wish SE had either increased the amount Cure V/VI could heal or lowered their MP costs so they'd be more MP efficient then III/IV are when they did the changes. I guess it isn't bad having them as emergency cures, but essentially the spells could cease to exist and it wouldn't affect me in a major way.


With Regen V, faster regen casting, LA bonus to regen potency, new gear that boost cure potency and reduces casting time, and overall healing magic changes, I'm perfectly happy with SCH curing now in every event I bring it to.

Personally I'm still a little bitter they stopped where they did for Regen. Light Arts Regen buffs don't affect /SCH at all (there is absolutely no reason it shouldn't, it would be at half level strength), Red Mage doesn't have access to higher tiers of Regen (they should have at least III, and probably IV by now), and White Mage Regen merits are even more of a joke then they were before.

I'd much rather they focused on increasing Red Mage's access to the spell first.

I suppose if they were to boost Light Arts from /SCH to give out the 12HP/tic and take the most obvious route to buff White Mage Regen merits (scaling the merit effect with spell tier) then there would be a danger that Regen IV by a well geared White Mage could outcure Regen V from a Scholar tic by tic, which isn't the goal of continued adjustments by a longshot... so any buff to White Mage Regen Merits will probably be duration related (considering White Mage doesn't get Composure, or Perpetuance, and how Regen used to be the most MP efficient way to cure, there is a wide amount of room for improvement, and it is the most natural change without upsetting balance).

One way this could be done would be to add 10 tics, or 30 seconds per merit. Together with Light Arts and gear, this would equate to 83 tics (249 seconds, or 4 minutes, 9 seconds, just short of Scholar's 4 minute 30 second Regen spells with gear and strat). This would get White Mage a spell that has 64HP/MP efficiency (more while Accessioned, but still less effective then Scholar's Regen V), which while an improvement over the 34HP/MP that a Cure IV can pull off, is nowhere near the cure potential of an AoE cure. Overall, I wouldn't expect a single White Mage to merit it, but the merit choice would be significantly less insulting.

So I would say Regen should be adjusted to be a little more friendly for non-SCH to cast it:


Give Red Mage Regen III, Regen IV.
Make /SCH Light Arts give out the Regen buffs.
Essentially, /SCH would give out 12HP/tic and 8 extra tics. This will mostly help Red Mages who are subbing Scholar since White Mages will still find cures more MP efficient in most cases.
In addition to the current affect, have White Mage Regen merits increase duration.
This would be mostly symbolic, since other choices would still be better to merit.

I'd still be somewhat ify on even considering the last change, since it would be symbolic, pretty unnecessary, and essentially close the possibility of a Composure/Perpetuance lookalike effect for White Mage. However the first two changes are ones I would push for, especially since they're mostly for the benefit of Red Mage.

[saevel]

White Mages are the top healers for two reasons.

Emp +2 pants
Curaga III /IV

Anyone who says differently isn't being honest. WHM/SCH with those pants can pump out stupidly cheap cures and if it's three or more people needing healed then absolutely nothings beats Curaga III /IV. One Curaga IV is faster and cheaper then three Cure IV / V's and Curaga III is just stupidly efficient for both it's MP cost and casting time.

About the only times where a SCH can heal anywhere near as good as WHM is when you have a single DD on something and the SCH's only job is to cycle Cure III / IVs with a good Regen effect.

[saevel]

Econ,

SE's "regen buff" was straight off the RDM forums. During the various debates over how to make RDM a better "support" with Cure IV becoming nearly useless it was brought up to give RDM a super powerful healing over time spell. Something on the order of 40~60HP/tick instead of handing out Cure V. Personally I liked this idea as it allowed a RDM to assist a WHM without over curing. SE's answer was to implement it as a buff to LA, which I could get behind until they made it SCH onry. SE should of made it work from sub but limited to the SCH's level, so +12hp/tick as /SCH.

But it's SE, they really didn't want to see SCH "fail" and buffed the sh!t out of that job. Then finally gave it a super powered 2hr that we ended up basing entire mega boss strategies on.

[Zagen]

White Mages are the top healers for two reasons.

Emp +2 pants
Curaga III /IV

Anyone who says differently isn't being honest. WHM/SCH with those pants can pump out stupidly cheap cures and if it's three or more people needing healed then absolutely nothings beats Curaga III /IV. One Curaga IV is faster and cheaper then three Cure IV / V's and Curaga III is just stupidly efficient for both it's MP cost and casting time.

About the only times where a SCH can heal anywhere near as good as WHM is when you have a single DD on something and the SCH's only job is to cycle Cure III / IVs with a good Regen effect.
If you would have argued that a WHM can keep from pulling hate due to Cure Vs fixed hate I would have seen the argument. Curaga III/IV being able to cost 0 MP is great but they aren't hate free so unless you plan on tanking you aren't spamming them. Outside of being able to keep from hitting hate cap as fast as SCH (assuming the fight is even long enough for that) or procs I honestly don't see in what situation a WHM > SCH in the current game.

[Demon6324236]

About the only times where a SCH can heal anywhere near as good as WHM is when you have a single DD on something and the SCH's only job is to cycle Cure III / IVs with a good Regen effect.SCH also is better in events like Salvage & Meebles where you are fighting many small mobs with a party. Regen keeps the parties HP up almost effortlessly which allows the SCH a ton of freedom with MP to either change arts and nuke, buff, or just heal someone who is super tanking. An example of which is when doing Salvage, on the first floor with gears we end up pulling the whole room most of the time, they party beats on 1 thing, the rest is on the puller. The SCH simply cures the puller when need be while regen keeps everyone else alive. These smaller events are where I think SCH excels over WHM, but against things that are 'bosses' WHM is obviously better, with the cureskin, cast time, and -aga spells WHM can keep up peoples HP much better than SCH & Regen can because of how hard the mobs hit.

[Economizer]

WHM/SCH with those pants can pump out stupidly cheap cures and if it's three or more people needing healed then absolutely nothings beats Curaga III /IV.

Absolutely correct, although I'd say that the MP cost is fair. Curaga simply is the best tool in a White Mage's arsenal. Shoot, if the tiers weren't so nicely numbered (maybe lame argument with Curaga I), or we had actually gotten 100/50 for level caps (which Red Mages argued against) I think I'd would be arguing for Curaga III to perhaps be made subjob usable at 50, but dropping it down to 49 just doesn't look right and goes too far. If Red Mage had AoE spells outside of the joke that is Diaga (they should), I'd maybe suggest that maybe at higher level they could get tiers of Curaga (something like 46/61/81 or 40/83/96), since White Mage wears the pants in this relationship, and RDM wouldn't get IV/V.

As a bit of a counter to Curaga spells being all powerful, good luck getting the moon and the stars to align so that you're in the "tank" party and they actually are close enough together to actually all get hit by a Curaga, and they don't move (even with some cast time reduction, they will move in time to screw up a cure, or the guy you decided to target freaked out about their HP and moved away from the mob).

Only very elite setups will have the luck, communication, and organization to consistently pull off Curagas on any content that matters in such a way that the alternatives wouldn't have been better. Curaga's radius (despite being very forgiving for organized groups) is simply "too small" to simply spam and forget when you have 18 people, 2/3 of which aren't in your party, running around crazily with the notion that they have their own personal pocket mage. And so help you if there is a party without a healer in your alliance, because in addition to feeling depressed about Curagas not solving everything like they should, you now have to spam <stal> cure macros as much as you can on another party too in combination with another healer, and you don't know if they will be busy at the moment someone in the limbo party needs a cure or if you'll be overcuring.


SE's "regen buff" was straight off the RDM forums.

The Reflect suggestion that hasn't gone anywhere yet was from a WHM forum (in JP) for the record, but that didn't stop players from wanting it for "RDM only" (I think it should be shared between the two, but somehow I suspect it will end up going to RUN).

Again, RDM should get Regen III without any argument from SE, and should probably get Regen IV because there is no good reason not to.


Something on the order of 40~60HP/tick instead of handing out Cure V. Personally I liked this idea as it allowed a RDM to assist a WHM without over curing.

Short of getting higher tiers of Regen then White Mage this simply isn't possible outside of a different type of spell. Had SE given White Mage their rightful pants ages ago before merits were bolted down, Red Mage would have probably been the masters of Regen and White Mage would have probably never had merits in it or so much special gear for it.

Red Mage's problem is the same as always, what concept do they go with that hasn't already had some other job lay claim? If you can't do Regen, I'd imagine some party castable enspell that heals the player on hit... oh wait. If you can't do that then I'd imagine some spell that makes players heal for a stronger amount... and again, already taken. At best I could imagine Red Mage getting a spell that doubles the damage/cure of the next weapon skill or spell from a different player in some idea of "double cast" but how long until Mimes are added to FFXI just to block that idea?


SE's answer was to implement it as a buff to LA, which I could get behind until they made it SCH onry. SE should of made it work from sub but limited to the SCH's level, so +12hp/tick as /SCH.

I even remember SCH mains complaining on this one. I don't even understand the logic sometimes.


If you would have argued that a WHM can keep from pulling hate due to Cure Vs fixed hate I would have seen the argument. Curaga III/IV being able to cost 0 MP is great but they aren't hate free so unless you plan on tanking you aren't spamming them. Outside of being able to keep from hitting hate cap as fast as SCH (assuming the fight is even long enough for that) or procs I honestly don't see in what situation a WHM > SCH in the current game.

With the current enmity environment, so long as your damage dealers are doing enough damage they should be keeping at cap as well despite taking massive amounts of damage, so whichever one of them hit the mob last should be keeping hate.

When they change this we could see a bit of a snap downwards in terms of how much White Mages can cure due to enmity, particularly on physical damage heavy mobs that a White Mage can't take hits from. Curaga spells might still be useful on mobs that are primarily magic damage based however, since a White Mage is second only to Aegis Paladins for tanking constant magic damage.

On this idea, Curaga V has some weird enmity properties like Cure V/VI has, but it tends to overcure (pointless for an AoE cure) and cost a ton of MP.


SCH also is better in events like Salvage & Meebles where you are fighting many small mobs with a party. Regen keeps the parties HP up almost effortlessly which allows the SCH a ton of freedom with MP to either change arts and nuke, buff, or just heal someone who is super tanking. An example of which is when doing Salvage, on the first floor with gears we end up pulling the whole room most of the time, they party beats on 1 thing, the rest is on the puller. The SCH simply cures the puller when need be while regen keeps everyone else alive. These smaller events are where I think SCH excels over WHM, but against things that are 'bosses' WHM is obviously better, with the cureskin, cast time, and -aga spells WHM can keep up peoples HP much better than SCH & Regen can because of how hard the mobs hit.

Essentially true. Part of this is a result of Regen, part of this is the constraints of Curaga spells, and part of this is White Mage's lack of damage ability. And that doesn't even cover Red Mage's plight in this.

Scholar has a PR problem rivaling Red Mage's. It can often match and even outdo White Mage even without Embrava, yet all it is known for currently is the 2hour 1hour ability.

[Demon6324236]

Thats not SCHs fault though, thats the players fault for refusing to look past the norm for anything. SCH is a great job for many events, yet people think without the current Embrava the job is worthless. People also think that Embrava will become worthless once it is 'nerfed', even though it has quite a bit of use, it simply needs a longer duration then what SE is trying to give us.

[Zagen]

Thats not SCHs fault though, thats the players fault for refusing to look past the norm for anything. SCH is a great job for many events, yet people think without the current Embrava the job is worthless. People also think that Embrava will become worthless once it is 'nerfed', even though it has quite a bit of use, it simply needs a longer duration then what SE is trying to give us.

I'd rather the player base not learn how awesome SCH is because that will lead to cries for more nerfs.

As to embrava becoming useless in the current "nerfed" state it's still used because it isn't useless it just requires different approaches.

[saevel]

As a bit of a counter to Curaga spells being all powerful, good luck getting the moon and the stars to align so that you're in the "tank" party and they actually are close enough together to actually all get hit by a Curaga, and they don't move (even with some cast time reduction, they will move in time to screw up a cure, or the guy you decided to target freaked out about their HP and moved away from the mob).


I'm in the "tank" party on everything I do, and by tank I mean a collection of melee's actually contributing to the fight. All you need is three melee's fighting the NM to make curaga IV your best friend. NM does stupid move, WHM responds with Curaga IV and all is well. There is even an argument for two melees though it's more time efficient then MP efficient then. Otherwise light sprinkling of Cure III / IV is best. Cure V spam is for when you have on melee beating on something and you need to ensure your always under their hate level even after they get hit with a heavy attack.

The point I'm trying to make is that not only does WHM blow away everyone else in boss fights their more then good enough to handle all the running around. The only thing that SCH has on WHM is Embrava and aoe enspells / phalanx.

[saevel]

Thats not SCHs fault though, thats the players fault for refusing to look past the norm for anything. SCH is a great job for many events, yet people think without the current Embrava the job is worthless. People also think that Embrava will become worthless once it is 'nerfed', even though it has quite a bit of use, it simply needs a longer duration then what SE is trying to give us.

SCH is suffering from the same situation RDM did at 75. It's "good enough" to do many things but there are other jobs better then it is at those things. There is never a situation where you need healing / support and magic damage at the same time. If you need healing / support you go WHM or BRD (COR gets a mention), if you need magic damage then you go BLM. Because of this SCH is only demanded in a situation were it's unique abilities are needed, namely Embrava. This is the same as RDM and CSS back at 75.

[Damane]

SCH is suffering from the same situation RDM did at 75. It's "good enough" to do many things but there are other jobs better then it is at those things. There is never a situation where you need healing / support and magic damage at the same time. If you need healing / support you go WHM or BRD (COR gets a mention), if you need magic damage then you go BLM. Because of this SCH is only demanded in a situation were it's unique abilities are needed, namely Embrava. This is the same as RDM and CSS back at 75.

I like to differ. In events like Salvage, Meebles, Nyzul etc. basicly lowman events, SCH shines with its capability to adjust itself best to the appropriate situation as a nuker, crowd controler, healer, debuffer. Not to mention that SCH/BLM is the best stunner in the game atm and its nukeing is not so far behind BLM. It is well rounded and just lacks usefull unique spells that matter. Buffing adloqium so you can get 5 TP/tic regain with 500 enhancing magic and makeing animus schemas worthwile would give SCH unique tools.