Final Fantasy XXIV Online (Not a Typo)

[Chocobits]

Sub-title for thread is "How to not mess up your next MMO"

Just going to throw out a few seemingly common sense items for consideration to implement in the next MMO version of Final Fantasy, whatever that version's number happens to be.

-Stop making overly complicated MMO designs that target multiple platforms. It is the accepted standard that if you are going to MMO, you are doing it on a PC. And you have proven twice now that you do not know how to or are not capable of properly coding software to be compatible with multiple platforms. Final Fantasy MMOs should be PC-only. Not because we wouldn't like to play them on consoles, but that actually doing it is a novelty and we already know you won't do it right and we will be stuck with spaghetti code for a decade+

-Auto-Translate is an awesome feature. Expand on that.

-Improved member and party search features and social networking features that are ready from the git-go. It might seem weird to understand, but most people that play MMOs tend to associate with those type of people IRL as well as online. Thus, we are going to have friends, coworkers and family right there on our server with us at launch time. We are gonna wanna coordinate and chat, share achievements, blog, create fan sites, fanvids, faqs and video tutorials, etc etc. Give us tools to coordinate all of this into 1 or 2 places instead of being flung helter skelter across Al Gore's intrawebz.

-NO MANDATORY FULL SCREEN THAT CRASHES ON ALT+TAB, CTRL+ESC, WINDOWS KEY, OR JAVA UPDATE POPUPS LOL! WE DON'T USE OUR PC'S AS A SANDBOX FOR 1 APPLICATION! LEARN2CODE!

Now I know you're saying, "But Choco.. you said this exact same stuff 4 years ago when project Rapture was publicly announced.."

Yes, I did. How many millions of USD (so as to not confuse this with Yen) and how much faith in your company name would you have saved listening to me then SE? :):):)

I'm giving away a free formula on how not to suck. This is the third or fourth time I've literally handed you victory, and you reached down and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory. I want you guys to succeed, I really do. But you don't know how when it comes to MMOs.

So, 4 years later~ish, I'm here saying the same things again. Please understand SE, I kick a lot of ass. Not as much as I used to, which was all the more reason to listen to me back then. Now, I have toned it down to a dull roar. But I can still design and produce a better MMO than you. I'll leave you to what you do best - storyboarding and music. You let me handle UI design, AI behavior, battle planning, city and landscape design............, social networking, client interface and marketing. Deal? Let's work together to make a product that spit shines your company image and makes us all a lot of money.

I'd write up a resume for you to consider me, but all it would have had on it would be "I told you so".

[Crusader81]

Actually Yoshi has already done these things for ARR

[Chocobits]

Actually Yoshi has already done these things for ARR

No he hasn't lol. The ability to alt+tab is coming. None of the rest is.

No enhanced autotranslate.

Can't say I've kept my ear to the ground on the social networking aspect but I don't see SE taking the bull by the horn and creating/making solid use of existing social networking platforms.

Game is still going to be released on PS3, probably coded with it as its least common denominator, to the future detriment of the game, because SE doesn't know how to create a multi platform game that takes full advantage of PC hardware.

So, actually no, Yoshi hasn't done most of those things already. What he's done is created what we hope and assume will be the acceptable version of the game that should have been released in the first place.

Now we wait and see how the game runs on production after its go-live. If I can alt+tab, not have 1-2 full seconds of server lag per action, not see the same tree/hill every 10 feet, not have annoying electronic noise being passed off as BGM/UI sound effects, not see every every aggressive enemy in the game use ranged attacks/draw ins that disallow running away, and not see the same 3 reskinned mobs throughout the game (even FFXI wasn't that bad), and a functional search menu, and a UI I can actually use, then I'll call it a success.

The rest, with the social networking, improved autotrans (even tho the JPs hate us and want their own servers), fully functional auction house, more consistent crafting results, balanced quest/grind rewards, CONTENT, and improved storage and housing are things that can be hammered out. As long as the framework is solid.

I know most of that wasn't included in my original post, and I know the game with Yoshi-P at the helm as the figurehead leader is in better shape than it's ever been.

The point I was making in the OP was that, I called it, and that I could have (and on paper did) designed a better MMO BEFORE this nightmare happened in the first place and said on a number of forums "OK SE, here is your recipe for success. Follow these tenets and you will be successful and I'll have a new MMO to play with!" But that Square Enix was not a cool guy. He killed MMOs and wouldn't listen to anything.

[Cabalabob]

Two main things I liked about ffxi that they didn't carry over to xiv which I think are big contributors to ffxi's life span are.

The menu system: this is something really different in MMO's, all the other big MMO's use the exact same system, that stupid little bar at the bottom where you stuff all your abilities and spells and everything. Granted in ffxi we mainly opt for the use of macros which are a similar system. But the menu system also offered an alternative which helped new players get on their feet and even some advanced players could use it to have spells or abilities ready to use that aren't in their macros. But the main point here is that the menu system gave ffxi a very unique feel compared to other MMO's. it felt more like a classic ff style game. All the big ff games use a menu system, is it a coincidence that the one game that didn't use it was such a massive failure it had to be remade?

The chat box: all other MMO's I've seen have that irritatingly small chat box in the bottom left corner that you have to squint and crane your neck to read. Ffxi had a massive chat box with huge font that took up the entire bottom of your screen! For me this was a great thing, it meant I could play on my tv (unlike other MMO's where this makes that tiny chat box look even smaller) and it made the game a lot more social, back when people actually still played ffxi I know I sometimes came on just to talk to people, It was like having a mini social network and it really made ffxi stand out for me. Sadly for xiv they went for the standard MMO tiny chat box... How they planned to make that work with ps3 is beyond me.

Basically the menu system and the chat box gave ffxi a really unique feel amoungst it's main competitors (WoW, LoTRO, KoTOR online etc.) but for xiv they took out these unique features that worked and followed the usual MMO style and for some absurd reason tried to be unique by taking out the auction house and any form of decent search engine, which clearly did not work. Ffxiv ARR, although looking better than what it was, is starting to look kind of like WoW HD, and I think for the future they should stick with menu's and a good sized chat box.

[luso1988]

the purpose of multiple platforms is too reach a broader range of cunsumers , i for one am a Xbox only player but i have a PC too
whereas my brother is a PS3 guy but has a ps2 with FFXI , and refuses to play xbox , so yeah.... dont be mad .. get glad...were

[Alhanelem]

Sub-title for thread is "How to not mess up your next MMO"How do you do that? release the game on a single, upgradable platform (or a disposable platform like mobile where you can often get a better one for little or no cost to play on when your current one becomes dated).

[Karbuncle]

Some things work well on Multiple Platforms. MMO's do not.

PC's get more powerful each year, A Single (360, PS3)Platform, to an extent(!), do not. If the game is going to live more then 3-4 Years, Eventually said Platform its on is going to be obsolete, and therefor, they have the option to Drop it, Or Limit the game to accommodate the Old system its on.

Even though PS3/Xbox get updates in ram and so forth, When the 720/4 Come out, They're eventually going to stop/slow updating PS3/Xbox360 (Microsoft/Sony, not SE)... Still, even though i know what it can spell for an MMO, I'll support it, Just hope its the right choice, Or when it comes down to it, In the future, if needed, They migrate to PS4 instead of nerfing PS3 updates as its getting now.

[Rezeak]

I pretty much have a sure fire way to make a MMO succeed in the bloated MMO market and that's to support voice chat in game. If FFXIV had that i'd be sold.

[Meyi]

Two main things I liked about ffxi that they didn't carry over to xiv which I think are big contributors to ffxi's life span are.

The menu system: this is something really different in MMO's, all the other big MMO's use the exact same system, that stupid little bar at the bottom where you stuff all your abilities and spells and everything. Granted in ffxi we mainly opt for the use of macros which are a similar system. But the menu system also offered an alternative which helped new players get on their feet and even some advanced players could use it to have spells or abilities ready to use that aren't in their macros. But the main point here is that the menu system gave ffxi a very unique feel compared to other MMO's. it felt more like a classic ff style game. All the big ff games use a menu system, is it a coincidence that the one game that didn't use it was such a massive failure it had to be remade?

The chat box: all other MMO's I've seen have that irritatingly small chat box in the bottom left corner that you have to squint and crane your neck to read. Ffxi had a massive chat box with huge font that took up the entire bottom of your screen! For me this was a great thing, it meant I could play on my tv (unlike other MMO's where this makes that tiny chat box look even smaller) and it made the game a lot more social, back when people actually still played ffxi I know I sometimes came on just to talk to people, It was like having a mini social network and it really made ffxi stand out for me. Sadly for xiv they went for the standard MMO tiny chat box... How they planned to make that work with ps3 is beyond me.

Basically the menu system and the chat box gave ffxi a really unique feel amoungst it's main competitors (WoW, LoTRO, KoTOR online etc.) but for xiv they took out these unique features that worked and followed the usual MMO style and for some absurd reason tried to be unique by taking out the auction house and any form of decent search engine, which clearly did not work. Ffxiv ARR, although looking better than what it was, is starting to look kind of like WoW HD, and I think for the future they should stick with menu's and a good sized chat box.

I agree with all of this. I hate the WoW UI. I always liked XI's UI.

[svengalis]

I doubt SE will make another MMO after XIV fails... again.

[Notackan]

I agree with the last 3 parts. I don't agree with the first part. Not everyone plays FFXI on PC. If you say that then you are naive. I know about 70% do in the states, but a lot of people play on Xbox and a few people even still play on PS2 (like my linkshell leader and half of Japan). I actually love playing on my Xbox, because I prefer console games to PC games even though I do play PC games (The variety of PC only games have dwindles in the last few years and I really tired of not being able to just install the game to play seems like every game you have to sign up for some steam clone or it's online only).

Tell you the truth, I was thinking of a way to boost sales for FFXIV and to talk people into getting Playstation Plus. Reduce the monthly price for FFXIV if you have it registered on your PS3 and have a running Playstation Plus account. I bet you could get a lot of extra Playstation Plus accounts if you do that and make it where you can buy months for account. Of course the game would have to be good for that to even work, and I think your other ideas would come in help a lot here.

If you think MMOs are only successful on PC then you obviously haven't been watching some of the recent MMOs that had to go F2P cause of poor sales... FFXI sure was a failure though, most profitable square game and still sucking money out of people. Just cause it didn't have sales like WoW and subscribers like WoW doesn't make it a failure. Mortal Kombat II didn't sell as many arcade units and games than Street Fighter II but they both were successful games >.>

[Tickmeoff]

-Auto-Translate is an awesome feature. Expand on that.

I'd rather they give us separate servers for each region. Auto translate is useless, 98% of the Japanese playerbase refuse to do anything at all with players from any other region. The only people using auto translate are English speaking players, and only to save time when shouting or write out funny phrases.

Rather than having this pointless divide in the community on every single server, just give each region their own servers.

[Kari]

I'd rather they give us separate servers for each region. Auto translate is useless, 98% of the Japanese playerbase refuse to do anything at all with players from any other region. The only people using auto translate are English speaking players, and only to save time when shouting or write out funny phrases.

Rather than having this pointless divide in the community on every single server, just give each region their own servers.

I'd only support this because it could possibly mean having local servers. NA players have pretty high ping in FFXI because of the distance from the server. It only affects a few things, and most don't notice it, but it's there.

On the other hand, I don't see a reason to restrict servers by region. Having NA and JP players in FFXI means there's never a dead time. Every other MMO I've played generally has much less people online at graveyard hours. At least on FFXI I can hop into a party of JP players doing an activity and get something done.

I'd also love to see cross-server matchmaking and such.

[Demon6324236]

On the other hand, I don't see a reason to restrict servers by region. Having NA and JP players in FFXI means there's never a dead time. Every other MMO I've played generally has much less people online at graveyard hours. At least on FFXI I can hop into a party of JP players doing an activity and get something done.Creates more discrimination, I am sure we have all come across our fair share of people who are either from our country who hate JP players, or JP players who are rude and disrespectful to us. I know I have met quite a few, is it enough for me to say we should have different servers? No, not really, but I can easily see why some people may want it that way, because I have met quite a few distasteful players in my time on this game, many of which from other countries, and can understand why anyone would want them gone.

Also, not everyone can play with JP players well, for instance I speak no Japanese and at the same time I also can not always get my point across to others using auto trans. Doing events like VW seems nearly impossible for such things, so the language barrier prevents me from doing many events with those who do not speak English. As I said, I do not want separate servers, however I can see why some might want it.

[Yinnyth]

Now I know you're saying, "But Choco.. you said this exact same stuff 4 years ago when project Rapture was publicly announced.."

Yes, I did. How many millions of USD (so as to not confuse this with Yen) and how much faith in your company name would you have saved listening to me then SE? :):):)

I'm giving away a free formula on how not to suck. This is the third or fourth time I've literally handed you victory, and you reached down and snatched defeat from the jaws of victory.

So, 4 years later~ish, I'm here saying the same things again. Please understand SE, I kick a lot of ass. Not as much as I used to, which was all the more reason to listen to me back then. Now, I have toned it down to a dull roar. But I can still design and produce a better MMO than you.

I thought about making a humility joke. I considered mentioning off-handed that if you know exactly how to make the perfect MMO, then you should have made it 4 years ago and cashed in on your own brilliance instead of handing it off to an already successful company. I briefly contemplated mentioning that 4 years ago was 2009, and your join date on these forums is 2011, so there is no way we would be saying anything about "But Choco.. you said this exact same stuff 4 years ago when project Rapture was publicly announced.." because we had never heard about you by then.

In the end, I decided to do all of those things.

[Hexadecimal]

I'd rather they give us separate servers for each region. Auto translate is useless, 98% of the Japanese playerbase refuse to do anything at all with players from any other region. The only people using auto translate are English speaking players, and only to save time when shouting or write out funny phrases.

Rather than having this pointless divide in the community on every single server, just give each region their own servers.

While I can't say I've never experienced this, in my experience, it's been few and far between, and I've been playing on Asura since shortly after CoP launched. YMMV, since I can read and write some Japanese, and make the effort to look up what I don't understand.

Like anything else, some people get territorial, and some are willing to reach out. I would go one step further than auto-translate, and make sure that IME (input method emulator), which is used to type Asian languages on a keyboard, be fully supported. In my brief time playing FF14 1.0, I noticed that this seemed to be supported, and I hope that this continues in the future.

[hideka]

I doubt SE will make another MMO after XIV fails.
dude... the only reason FFXIV2.0 will fail is because of ignorant people who are too hung up over 1.0's shortcomings to allow it the chance to be good. i played 14 at launch and just before shutdown, and i have to say, launch was disgusting. just before shutdown however, was one of the most beautiful, captivating and fun MMO's I've played in a long long time. it still lacks a TON of features and content, but they are on track to stomp the crap out of the big 3 right now (11 WOW & EQ). once they start expaning the Armoury system, expecially the DOM portion, and releasing the 2nd jobs for each class, the game will truly start to shine.

getting my White Ravens with only one day left before the final save was the most satisfying feeling i have ever had in an MMO.

[Morier]

Some things work well on Multiple Platforms. MMO's do not.

PC's get more powerful each year, A Single (360, PS3)Platform, to an extent(!), do not. If the game is going to live more then 3-4 Years, Eventually said Platform its on is going to be obsolete, and therefor, they have the option to Drop it, Or Limit the game to accommodate the Old system its on.

Even though PS3/Xbox get updates in ram and so forth, When the 720/4 Come out, They're eventually going to stop/slow updating PS3/Xbox360 (Microsoft/Sony, not SE)... Still, even though i know what it can spell for an MMO, I'll support it, Just hope its the right choice, Or when it comes down to it, In the future, if needed, They migrate to PS4 instead of nerfing PS3 updates as its getting now.

10th year going on 11th. I would say it is working.