Release SoA on Xbox 360 Games on Demand

[Shenul]

There are reasons for games to be distributed on disc and on Games on Demand. But what benefit is there for the playerbase in terms of disc vs. Games on Demand?

Disc:
- Discs can be lost or damaged, which leads to not being able to play the game anymore.
- Slower read speed than HDD, but can be installed to HDD.
- Even when installed, the disc is still required for DRM purposes.
- License stored on disc, which can easilly be used by multiple people and gamer profiles.
- Subject to availability. (Just try getting a FFXI game disc for the 360 anymore without paying over $100)
- Comes with printed manuals that can hold product keys.

Games on Demand:
- No physical media.
- Uses the Xbox LIVE system for DRM.
- Licenses game purchase to a single Xbox LIVE gamer profile and Xbox 360 console.
- Unlimited stock. (Games on Demand are rarely removed from the Xbox LIVE Marketplace)
- Not sure about this one, but unless Xbox LIVE sends you a message, there's no system in place to hand out Product Keys

What am I getting at here? Well, if there was a way to distribute product keys via the Xbox LIVE marketplace purchase of a Games on Demand title, then Games on Demand is the way to go for future releases of FFXI on the Xbox 360.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I can just about guarantee that Microsoft won't go for it. Remember that they nixed the ability to "install" PlayOnline to the HDD. Microsoft hates that POL/FFXI pierces the walled garden that is Live and will do absolutely nothing more than the bare minimum to assist in the game's continued existence on the 360.

Hell, I note that the 360 won't automatically launch the POL Viewer when the system is turned on no matter what the console settings are.

[Shenul]

Except that Microsoft has already let them do it. As far as Microsoft is concerned, Games on Demand are the same thing as a disc, just delivered in a different package.

[Mirage]

SE could probably easily support a non-disc version of SoA for 360 if they really wanted. They have servers to deliver content with.

They are allowed to store FF11 game files on the X360 HDD. The game FF11 is allowed to download data to the X360 HDD and save it there permanently.

If they did things right, they could distribute SoA exactly the same way as they distributed Abyssea and the three mini-addons to X360. The only real difference is the total download size. It is only a question of capacity on their distribution servers.

I don't think they have the best system for delivering updates efficiently, so it is possible that they don't want 80% of all users to get it digitally on the same day, but what they could do is to only release it in disc format to begin with, and then some months later offer it as a downloadable expansion instead of keep printing retail discs for it.

Other than that, I feel pretty confident that whenever they make a "complete edition" like they did with abyssea and stuff, the edition that is currently available on Steam will be replaced with an edition that contains SoA as well. Of course, this doesn't help X360 users.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Microsoft will not pay for the bandwidth to deliver a game that works outside of Live. Additionally, Games on Demand are available for much longer than discs on store shelves (when was the last time you saw Ultimate Collection?), and Microsoft does not want increased availability of a game that works outside of Live.

Microsoft hates FFXI on its console and wants to drown it in a bathtub. What little Xbox players get is probably based on the terms of some contract written late 2005 or so, and Microsoft will give not an inch more unless S-E agrees to Xbox-only servers.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

They are allowed to store FF11 game files on the X360 HDD.

What I meant is this: Xbox 360 players can install select games to and play them directly from the hard drive, with no DVD in the tray. PS2 players can play FFXI with no DVD in the tray. But (save for a brief week or two after NXE was introduced) Xbox 360 players cannot play FFXI without a DVD in the tray.

[Mirage]

Ok./tooshort

[Afin]

i would agree with putting this on games on demand. As trying to find this game in shops and 2nd hand shops /ebay, these days, is either ridiculously overpriced, or very rare. Its as if both microsoft and SE dont want players on the 360 anymore, as from what i can see, theirs hardly any support at all. From issues of getting the game itself, to having constant freeze issues due to its capability. And tbh, can't be that hard to do it, as it'd just be like another online download like most player get theirs through pol or steam etc. I play on p.c. now as the 360 just had too many issues to play with. Its sad in a way, as i enjoyed playing on the 360

[Shenul]

Xbox 360 players can install select games to and play them directly from the hard drive, with no DVD in the tray.

Wait, what? That's blatantly wrong. Most any disc-based title can be installed to the Xbox 360 HDD, but that does NOT mean you can play it without a disc in the machine. Installing the game is only to decrease load times due to reading from the HDD and not the disc drive. The game disc must still be in the machine to launch the game, as that is where the DRM is located. If this check was not included, you could rent a game (or borrow one from your friends), install the game on your HDD, and then continue to play the game after you took the disc back.


Microsoft will not pay for the bandwidth to deliver a game that works outside of Live.

Part of the cost of Games on Demand games goes to funding bandwidth, just like how part of the cost of a disc-based title goes to funding the manufacturing and printing. Most all digital download platforms have no cost to put it up on their service, but will take a percentage fee of each sale in order to maintain their own servers and bandwidth. Microsoft is an exception in that being a console, they have other things that they need to pay for, and as such there is a fee associated with placing a game up on the servers. The same thing happens with disc-based games. If you don't believe me, go read up on the life cycle of console games and what all is involved.


Additionally, Games on Demand are available for much longer than discs on store shelves (when was the last time you saw Ultimate Collection?)

I believe I already made that point. In fact, it's a major reason to attempt for Games on Demand. But I'm glad to see you're reading and not just jumping aboard the negativity express.


and Microsoft does not want increased availability of a game that works outside of Live.

Truth be told, the game only sorta works outside of LIVE. It works as much outside of LIVE as any EA game works outside of LIVE. Go pop any EA Sports game into your console that has a year under 2010 (or even 2011, depending). Oh look, servers are down. Any large publisher has the choice of how to implement their servers. FFXI ties accounts to Xbox LIVE enabled gamer profiles. That lets them track achievements on LIVE.

If Microsoft had as big of a problem as you say they have with the game on the console, you wouldn't even see a disc version coming out. They'd snuff it as fast as they could in as many ways as they could.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Wait, what? That's blatantly wrong. Most any disc-based title can be installed to the Xbox 360 HDD, but that does NOT mean you can play it without a disc in the machine. Installing the game is only to decrease load times due to reading from the HDD and not the disc drive.

My mistake, then. But the fact remains that the PlayOnline Viewer is still specifically excepted from this time-saving (and potentially lag-saving) feature, on a title where DRM shouldn't be much of an issue at all (again: PS2 players play with an empty disc tray).


I believe I already made that point. In fact, it's a major reason to attempt for Games on Demand. But I'm glad to see you're reading and not just jumping aboard the negativity express.

We agree about the issue, but the difference is that you don't feel it's deliberate. You feel that S-E is pushing the game through Steam and Amazon and "just happens" to be neglecting Xbox.


Any large publisher has the choice of how to implement their servers.

Final Fantasy XI allows Xbox 360 players to play on the same servers with others who are on different platforms, all without paying for a Gold Membership. How many other 360 titles do that?


If Microsoft had as big of a problem as you say they have with the game on the console, you wouldn't even see a disc version coming out. They'd snuff it as fast as they could in as many ways as they could.

Odds are there's a contract somewhere that not even Microsoft's lawyers can find a way out of; what we're seeing reeks of bare-minimum compliance.

After all, there won't be a disc version of XIV for the 360 any time soon.

[Demon6324236]

Final Fantasy XI allows Xbox 360 players to play on the same servers with others who are on different platforms, all without paying for a Gold Membership. How many other 360 titles do that?Not only that but it allows access to any and all gold membership only privileges so long as you are on FFXI at the time. For instance, XBL parties are fully available to any and all Silver Membership players while on FFXI, where as normally they are only accessible via Gold Membership.

[wildsprite]

After all, there won't be a disc version of XIV for the 360 any time soon.

this is irrelevant to FFXI being in games on demand on live,
we do not know why the xb360 version of FFXIV was delayed indefinitely no details were put out about it except that SE felt that MS were being impossible about their compliance demands for it, nothing else was ever mentioned

[Shenul]

For instance, XBL parties are fully available to any and all Silver Membership players while on FFXI, where as normally they are only accessible via Gold Membership.

That's... really funny, actually.

[Wolfe]

Phantasy Star Universe allows users to play online without having a Gold Membership. It is because you have to pay for a separate subscription, it was presented that it is unfair to make users have to pay for XBL & Said service in order to enjoy the game online. Hence why they won't allow any more games like that to come out. WoW will never see the light of a 360, nor will Monster Hunter in the US because they require paying for a separate service. Never mind the fact that people may want it (or the fact that the 360 would never be able to handle WoW).

Microsoft wants money. That is the bottom line here. They get a portion of money when FFXI is sold for the 360. That is why they allow the disks to be sold. Aside from that, Microsoft doesn't care what the users want. It would be great to be able to fire up FFXI on my system, without the need of popping in a disk all the time. FFXI is my MOST used disk and I have had to buy every single copy that has ever come out, because my disks take that much damage. I have 4 copies for the 360 and I will buy these other two that are coming out as well because I know I will have a need for them both at some point in time.

FFXI: w/3 expansions (scratched disk)
FFXI WotG (scratched disk)
FFXI Vana'diel Collection (broke disk)
FFXI Ultimate Collection (Current disk, pretty scratched up)

I could use any of the disks to play FFXI, but if I had to reinstall it, I needed anything BUT the WotG disk. So, I'll say it again, it would be GREAT if SE would release a XBLA version of FFXI for 360. But it will never happen because the two companies just can't play nice.

[Mirage]

Maybe you need to take better care of your discs!

Although, maybe it is the 360 scratching them up while they are in use.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I'm sure he's as careful as he can be as he puts the needle on the disc...