Free to play plans?

[Castanica]

FFXI is old now and honestly the level and quality of the updates we get no longer mean it's worth the subscription fee, the game has also lost a lot of players.

Does Square have any plans to let FFXI go free to play with a cash shop anytime soon?

[Zhronne]

If you think it's not worth anymore then you should cancel your subscription.
Make many other people follow your lead and then, just then, SE maybe will think about moving FFXI into FTP.
Until people continue to play regularly why should they bother?

[Elphy]

In before someone starts mistakingly ranting about f2p meaning a game has failed.

---

Maybe if the game gets more new player friendly they could add a first 20-30 lvls with only the basic game free option. That would be a good business move. I know I am waaaay more apt to try a game out when I can give it a test run. But with as horribly unfriendly as this game is to new and returning players right now they need to just keep charging us as long as we will pay.

[Economizer]

Maybe if the game gets more new player friendly they could add a first 20-30 lvls with only the basic game free option. That would be a good business move. I know I am waaaay more apt to try a game out when I can give it a test run. But with as horribly unfriendly as this game is to new and returning players right now they need to just keep charging us as long as we will pay.

14 Day Free Trial.

Honestly the free trial is so limited that SE might as well make it not be time limited to be honest, you can't have any of the expansions, which means beating the Shadow Lord somehow at level 30 is the only real thing you can do, and only on a budget of 100k that you can't have gotten from other players or the Auction House.

That said, if I had to give one suggestion to improving the current free trial system, it would be a method to trade a Linkshell to them one way. Easiest way to get free trial players hooked in my opinion.

I highly doubt FFXI is going to a free-to-play/freemium model anytime soon, nor could I really even see having an item similar to EVE Online's PLEX (basically allowing players with lots of in-game resources to pay another player to cover their subscription costs, a variant of RMT). SE's stances on the economic impacts of possible changes and their current profits vs. the investment of a changeover just don't necessarily match up at this time with the idea.

[Castanica]

I already have canceled my sub months ago as has everyone I knew, this is why I'm asking.

FFXI is still a great game, it's just not worth the money they are asking anymore. With free to play the population will be boosted again and they can make money from optionals.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

FFXI is old now and honestly the level and quality of the updates we get no longer mean it's worth the subscription fee, the game has also lost a lot of players.

Ehh... that was more true this time last year than today. Today we (finally) have a new expansion pack to look forward to. Even if the updates nowadays do feel underwhelming, there appears to be a light at the end of the tunnel.

Also, the new update schedule might be contributing to the ennui; monthly updates can't be as big an exciting as the old quarterly updates were, since there are only so many man-hours in a month and generally don't have weeks to hype an upcoming release.


Does Square have any plans to let FFXI go free to play with a cash shop anytime soon?

FFXI is still profitable enough to pay for both itself and for fixing XIV. Don't expect them to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs any time soon.

[nyheen]

I already have canceled my sub months ago as has everyone I knew, this is why I'm asking.

FFXI is still a great game, it's just not worth the money they are asking anymore. With free to play the population will be boosted again and they can make money from optionals.

$12:95 a month is not really alot. SE is not going ftp anytime soon and i dont see how ftp in FFXI would work. i dont wanna be playing for a stack a meat for $1 in AH. or any others gear etc o.o.

some games it work well because it was build for that but just changing it on the fly would mess up lot of things because iam sure 90% of the gear/weapons/events gonna have to keep spamming real money and not gils anymore and it gonna be more then the $12 we paying every month or just be gimp as hell with the free gear.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

14 Day Free Trial.

Honestly the free trial is so limited that SE might as well make it not be time limited to be honest, you can't have any of the expansions, which means beating the Shadow Lord somehow at level 30 is the only real thing you can do, and only on a budget of 100k that you can't have gotten from other players or the Auction House.

That said, if I had to give one suggestion to improving the current free trial system, it would be a method to trade a Linkshell to them one way. Easiest way to get free trial players hooked in my opinion.

This I could go for. The more opportunity for linkshells to sink their claws into free trial players and coax them into something more, the better.

Beyond that, I'm not sure S-E is doing enough to publicize the program, even among existing players. Hardly anybody seems to know what that green-and-yellow icon means.

Hell, the lack of linkshells for them means there's hardly anybody around to explain the overly complicated process of becoming a paying player to them to begin with...

Would the anti-RMT measures still be broken if free trial players are able to trade everything but gil?

EDIT: ZOMG, players on an unlimited free trial, with the AH/Bazaar restrictions, would be the perfect pool of players to supply the guild salesrooms with non-restocked items! Now there's a mechanic that's been dead and abandoned since forever...

[WolfMoonstrike]

While I have no problem with a freemium based access for new players. You know stuff like basic areas only, access to the first 6 jobs, lvl 30 cap, and possibly a few trade-able items (like a linkshell, honestly this is a must).

I hope that FFXI never goes FTP with a cash shop. Not because I see it as a fail of a game but because I can't stand that sort of business model and avoid the majority of games that use it. And the ones I do play, I play for a month at most before I decide its not worth it.

One of the things that keep me coming back to FFXI (even after vowing not to many times now lol) is that I don't feel like I'm far behind those with RL money to burn and that I have just as much of a chance to earn what other players have, if I put the time and effort in. Of course a few exceptions to this like the tidal talisman.

[Laraul]

$12:95 a month is not really alot. SE is not going ftp anytime soon and i dont see how ftp in FFXI would work. i dont wanna be playing for a stack a meat for $1 in AH. or any others gear etc o.o.

some games it work well because it was build for that but just changing it on the fly would mess up lot of things because iam sure 90% of the gear/weapons/events gonna have to keep spamming real money and not gils anymore and it gonna be more then the $12 we paying every month or just be gimp as hell with the free gear.

Well, if you want more gear/weapons/events, it should only be fair you pay more, right?

Truth of the matter is I stopped caring about having the best gear a long time ago because I knew if I obsessed to much over having the best gear, I would likely turn to RMT. I think everyone would. Everyone else obsessed about gear. But many did not turn to RMT and played the honest way. And still others did turn to RMT to improve at least a few times. I know how tempting it can be to turn to RMT.

So, F2P wouldn't change THAT much. People will always buy game cash. You can't stop that. They want to win and will do what they feel necessary to do it. And no, they won't get caught till it's too late. I mean, look at what Lance Armstrong did to a different game? And he fooled everyone for years.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

So, F2P wouldn't change THAT much. People will always buy game cash.

More players will buy gil if it becomes legit, but many players will not. Many will even be driven away from the game outright.

If nothing else, there is no guarantee of a net increase in either income for S-E or players to interact with.

S-E has both dabbled with running a subscription-based game into the ground (TetraMaster) as well as f2p (Fantasy Earth Zero). They likely have more data to base any decisions on than any of us do.

[Arcon]

With free to play the population will be boosted again and they can make money from optionals.

Fuck no. Horrible idea, for any game, ever. Whoever thought of these things first deserves to be hung.

That aside, the price they asking is a lot. It's still one of the most expensive pay-to-play games I know, despite being as terrible as it is. They should reduce the fee substantially imo, I know that would bring back some people who don't consider the current fee acceptable, without having to result to such awful ideas like cashing in on optionals.

[Jaall]

FFXI doesn't cost a lot to play at all, and I and a lot of other players play the game at least once a day, 4-7 days a week so that to me would be worth the small amount they ask for. The amount I pay for FFXI is 1/4 of the amount I pay for my mobile phone bill every month, so hardly breaking the bank. Also SE needs, or really wants the money (I doubt they really need any money considering how large the FF franchise is) to maintain the servers so there is a very little chance they'll make the game ftp. The only chance is if maybe they get outside funding for the servers, the servers become free to maintain, and on top of either of them SE loses a significant majority of players and they need to reel them back in. So basically no chance!

[Daniel]

good thing the massive servers that run ffxi don't require any power, also good thing that MMOs are pretty much free to maintain and update... oh wait

[Fermion]

good thing the massive servers that run ffxi don't require any power, also good thing that MMOs are pretty much free to maintain and update... oh wait

Not that I agree with the f2p model, but I think the bolded part is what a lot of people take exception to, since we are paying. I know a lot of players that don't feel like they're getting their money's worth.

Personally, I believe that FFXIV is siphoning off a lot of FFXI revenue, which I feel is a sleazy way to treat your customers.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

FFXI is still profitable enough to pay for both itself and for fixing XIV. Don't expect them to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs any time soon.Realy FFXI is the major factor keeping SE afloat. Yes, they are expanding their market off of gaming only, but FFXIV would have been another "Spirits Within."

[Twiglet]

Honestly the free trial is so limited that SE might as well make it not be time limited to be honest, you can't have any of the expansions, which means beating the Shadow Lord somehow at level 30 is the only real thing you can do, and only on a budget of 100k that you can't have gotten from other players or the Auction House.

That said, if I had to give one suggestion to improving the current free trial system, it would be a method to trade a Linkshell to them one way. Easiest way to get free trial players hooked in my opinion.

I got suckered in by the trial, and dragged a pal and the boyfriend along with me. It needs to be altered so that trial users can form parties. We spent hours running around trying to find randoms to party us up.


More players will buy gil if it becomes legit, but many players will not. Many will even be driven away from the game outright.

I'd ragequit.

[nyheen]

ok think of it like this. netflix (ffxi fee) vs video stores (ftp).

video stores got no monthly fee. i can walk in and talk to my friends etc but if i wanna do stuff or buy anything (rent movie) it cost like $3+. new events out? $2, stack of sushi 1$ buy merit WS $2 new bst pet $1-2. iam sure mostly or all the stuff will turn into pay and it will cost lot, but hey if i wanna be gimp, talk to friends at the video store but dont buy anything while iam there sure. but if everyone did that there video stores wont make money and will do less and less update or die off.

netflix got a monthly fee like $8 to hang out with people but i get to spam lots and lots of movies all day on the website . sometime i watch up to 50 movies in 3 weeks or less. that would of cost like $150 if they was about $3 each. great updates (exp packs SoA etc) happening.

iam not saying ftp games are bad but most of them seems rushed and cheap since they not making lot of money. i seen over 1000 of ftp and it feel like all of them is the same way to me.
i honestly think if FFxi was a Ftp it would of never came out with all the good exp packs and update since they wont have the money to make it that good. it would be rushed like all the other ftp games.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Honestly the free trial is so limited that SE might as well make it not be time limited to be honest, you can't have any of the expansions, which means beating the Shadow Lord somehow at level 30 is the only real thing you can do, and only on a budget of 100k that you can't have gotten from other players or the Auction House.

That said, if I had to give one suggestion to improving the current free trial system, it would be a method to trade a Linkshell to them one way. Easiest way to get free trial players hooked in my opinion.

I can't stop thinking about this and how good an idea this is because, if nothing else, this would revitalize old and abandoned content.

First off, as I mentioned before, are the guild salesrooms. Paying subscribers only sell to them when they can't find room to list a particular item on the Auction House, but they are the best option for these free trial players to unload unwanted gear and make gil. This would breathe new life into the salesrooms and allow them to return to their original intent: functioning as price controls for the Auction House. This will help keep the price of low-level gear low enough for actual new (and paying) players, rather than being priced for players who already have a level 99 job to fund things with.

Further, because their only way to obtain gear is from monsters, NPCs and treasure boxes, they'll be more inclined to strive for the hard-to-obtain gear of events like Garrison and Cloudy and Sky Orb battles than are paying players, who will just rocket on past those levels to 50+ regardless. The minority of paying players who are interested in that old content will be much more likely to find help from these free players, while the free players get a form of "free endgame" that (for better or for worse) gives them a taste of what to expect when they do subscribe.

More generally, without access to /shout and /yell, they're forced to use the more passive party-building tools of /seacom and /invite. The more time these players are forced to use these tools as free players, the more likely they are to continue using these tools after they become paying players.

(Aside: does /autogroup work for free players?)

The only real shortcoming is their inability to be brought into linkshells; it seems the best you can do with a trial player is to /befriend them. But I think it's long past time to overhaul FFXI's linkshell system regardless. Rather than relying on "inventory -1," FFXI linkshells should more resemble how linkshells were managed in FFXIV 1.x. This could be kludged easily enough by tightly integrating the concept of a "linkshell" in FFXI with the Group Friend List functionality of PlayOnline (which currently isn't even accessible from within FFXI). This would allow for linkshell holders to manage the group without certain players having to be online to do so, and would likely also allow for integration with XIV's social lists in the future.

And, of course, it would allow the inclusion of free players into the wider FFXI community without having to circumvent the anti-RMT measure of not allowing them to trade with other players.

(And it may even encourage S-E to do something meaningful with the Linkshell Community website for the first time since before the Gates of Paradise were sealed... >.> )

[detlef]

Truth of the matter is I stopped caring about having the best gear a long time ago because I knew if I obsessed to much over having the best gear, I would likely turn to RMT. I think everyone would. Everyone else obsessed about gear. But many did not turn to RMT and played the honest way. And still others did turn to RMT to improve at least a few times. I know how tempting it can be to turn to RMT.The reality is that to be the best you'd have to invest thousands of dollars into RMT, which is just plain crazy. Realistically I think the people who actually RMT are extremely casual people who just want to get by and make the most what little time they have online without having to worry about gil.

[sweetidealism]

Free to play doesn't necessarily mean pay to win. In The Secret World, everything in the shop is either purely cosmetic, a temporary bonus to exp or movement speed, or new content unlocks.

I know a LOT of people that invested tons of gil in their mog house; who wore gear not for effect but for its look; and perhaps more than anything else, who groaned about running all over the world to do Rise of the Zilart missions.

I think that, if Square Enix were to offer a free to play option in which all the shop's items were either cosmetic, convenient, or content, but would NOT alter chances for success in battle (and maybe crafting) content, then I think it would be very successful.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

You can already get cosmetic swag and furnishings as bonuses for buying things like soundtrack CD pre-orders.

I would think that they'd find more excuses to sell such things already if it were a viable income option for FFXI.

[sweetidealism]

You can already get cosmetic swag and furnishings as bonuses for buying things like soundtrack CD pre-orders.

I would think that they'd find more excuses to sell such things already if it were a viable income option for FFXI.

This is true, but I think the reason it hasn't been viable is because they were poorly advertised. If these things were offered directly through the game, then more people would be aware of them and, therefore, more likely to buy them.

[Edyth]

FFXI is still profitable enough to pay for both itself and for fixing XIV. Don't expect them to kill the goose that lays the golden eggs any time soon.

Realy FFXI is the major factor keeping SE afloat. Yes, they are expanding their market off of gaming only, but FFXIV would have been another "Spirits Within."

Those are the facts, and anyone who objects to that statement and continues to argue that this game should be free-to-play has less business sense than a 4-year-old at a lemonade stand. Don't give out free lemonade (FFXI) and make people pay for ice (bonus content). They'll take all the lemonade they want, with little to no ice at all. SE wouldn't just be shooting themselves in the foot; they'd be stabbing themselves in the financial heart. FFXI makes a few million dollars for them every month; think about how many packaged games would have to sell to meet that number. Think of how much DLC/extra content they would have to sell PER MONTH to meet that number. Then please, shut up. <<<Directed at the people who say this game should be free to play.

[Winrie]

FFXI ftp is the worst idea anyone can come up with for this games advancement. I wouldnt pay a dime more than my subscription fee and cost of expansion to play a game this old and im quite sure many others would follow the train of leaving if we had to pay for every damn thing at a cost of no subscription. Screw that. If you dont like paying a measly 12 bucks a month then leave, instead of making boneheaded suggestions that are retarded in relation to today's XI.

[WolfMoonstrike]

FFXI ftp is the worst idea anyone can come up with for this games advancement. I wouldnt pay a dime more than my subscription fee and cost of expansion to play a game this old and im quite sure many others would follow the train of leaving if we had to pay for every damn thing at a cost of no subscription. Screw that. If you dont like paying a measly 12 bucks a month then leave, instead of making boneheaded suggestions that are retarded in relation to today's XI.

I agree with this in its entirety. I would absolutely leave if they decided to go FTP with a cash shop. Subscription games usually have more quality than FTP and I'm not into spending 100 or more a month to keep up with the "Hardcore" crowd.

[ManaKing]

The game makes money. If you're too cheap to pay a subscription, like the rest of us that still think it's worth playing, then I'm glad that SE filters you out of the game I play. Sorry supporting a company that makes things I like costs money. I can either pay for it, or watch what I like go away and get left with garbage like EA.

Funny thing about FFXIV, it might actually be worth play some day. I've never played a ftp game for more than a month. Why? You run out of things to do.

Pay for nice things, or don't have them.

[Alhanelem]

FFXI is old now and honestly the level and quality of the updates we get no longer mean it's worth the subscription fee, the game has also lost a lot of players.

Does Square have any plans to let FFXI go free to play with a cash shop anytime soon?
No and I would never play it again if they did.


Why? You run out of things to do.Either that, or you end up paying more than a subscription would have cost to do the same amount of stuff. Free to play is a bad deal for anyone who might play a game more than a week or a month- which is about how long most free players last before they either stop because of what they would have to pay for or they just lose interest.

[Zumi]

I have seen some F2P games that have higher quality updates then what we been getting on FFXI. I think its just they have what few people they have working on the game doing the expansion, and the rest of them are working on the FFXIV reboot.

I would just unsub if you have little interest in playing, we all got to quit sometime.

[xbobx]

Is this game worth the 12.95, of course not. Look at what we got before compared to now. what we use to get in one update before is equivalent to a year or two of updates we get now. Anyone that thinks that 12.95 is still good value is just plain wrong. No one in their right mind would think so. But people will continue to play and considering Square Enix is one of if not the greediest game companies out there, I don't see it. SE is the one that charges $15-$20 for iOS and Android games when everything else is $5.

For those that say that the manpower is not there, well not our problem, if that is the case, drop the price accordingly. The expansion is being paid for by our monthly sub fees, it shouldn't be, that money is supposed to be for connection and regularly updates. The expansion should be paid for by the price of the actually expansion. Which of course they have overpriced.

[Caketime]

The amount of tears this thread has generated at the very idea of F2P gaming is hilarious. My favorites so far are the posts outlining what will happen in painstaking detail if this hypothetical situation occurs. Next time I need the future divined for me I'm asking you dudes.

[Mirage]

Not free to play indefinitely, but having like the first 40 levels free, regardless of how much time you spend getting there, would prbably be good.

[Umichi]

Well, if you want more gear/weapons/events, it should only be fair you pay more, right?

Truth of the matter is I stopped caring about having the best gear a long time ago because I knew if I obsessed to much over having the best gear, I would likely turn to RMT. I think everyone would. Everyone else obsessed about gear. But many did not turn to RMT and played the honest way. And still others did turn to RMT to improve at least a few times. I know how tempting it can be to turn to RMT.

So, F2P wouldn't change THAT much. People will always buy game cash. You can't stop that. They want to win and will do what they feel necessary to do it. And no, they won't get caught till it's too late. I mean, look at what Lance Armstrong did to a different game? And he fooled everyone for years.

and look where that got him, he's pretty much shunned from the cycling community now, he's no longer a hero to people and he lost all of his awards.... cheating ingame by going to rmt si just the same so don't user that sort of logic...

[Umichi]

Fuck no. Horrible idea, for any game, ever. Whoever thought of these things first deserves to be hung.

That aside, the price they asking is a lot. It's still one of the most expensive pay-to-play games I know, despite being as terrible as it is. They should reduce the fee substantially imo, I know that would bring back some people who don't consider the current fee acceptable, without having to result to such awful ideas like cashing in on optionals.

most mmo's cost around 15 dollars ffxi still hasn't changed ther subscription fee i think and it's been 12 for a long time...

[Zarchery]

I'm confused here. FFXI sucks, so it should be free?

Square-Enix is still a business, not a public service.

[nyheen]

LoL i cant believe you guys complaining about the price. it not even that much. lot of others great MMO got monthly fees like WoW and they doing fine. are you guys seriously trying to turn it into a free to play MMO? if this was free it would not be wasting time putting out them exp packs like SoA and any of the old ones. if they did it would be rushed with little to nothing on it.

honestly to me most of them Ftp games are kinda rush, cheesy and almost all made the same. some look nice but i guess that just me. or maybe i played just the sucky one?o.o

[xbobx]

I'm confused here. FFXI sucks, so it should be free?

Square-Enix is still a business, not a public service.

You do know that many mmos have actually made more money switching to FTP than they did with subs right?

[Umichi]

LoL i cant believe you guys complaining about the price. it not even that much. lot of others great MMO got monthly fees like WoW and they doing fine. are you guys seriously trying to turn it into a free to play MMO? if this was free it would not be wasting time putting out them exp packs like SoA and any of the old ones. if they did it would be rushed with little to nothing on it.

honestly to me most of them Ftp games are kinda rush, cheesy and almost all made the same. some look nice but i guess that just me. or maybe i played just the sucky one?o.o

wow is not a good example as they have a free to play option up to lvl 30.

[Dragoy]

I as well think FINAL FANTASY XI to be (too) high on the price. It will obviously be even more so when playing with more than one account at the same time. Of course, that is up to the player to choose to do, but the game itself can in my opinion be blamed quite a bit for that just as well (inventory/storage\crafting woes to name a few, not to mention how much it can be of help with the events like Abyssea).


FFXI doesn't cost a lot to play at all, and I and a lot of other players play the game at least once a day, 4-7 days a week so that to me would be worth the small amount they ask for. The amount I pay for FFXI is 1/4 of the amount I pay for my mobile phone bill every month, so hardly breaking the bank

To me, FFXI costs about 16 times as much as my phone bill does (actually 32 times since I have two accounts (both with 4 characters)). ^^;


Would I want it to be free-to-play?

Very likely not, because it would require some silly changes. There are games that have 'premium' areas, abilities, spells, housing and such, but it's possible to play for absolutely free, and do a lot from which one big thing is to keep in touch with friends.

So as many have more or less already said, I'd say the current 14-day trial should be improved upon. Could probably drop the time restriction, and definitely make them able to party together, and talk to people. It's difficult to help, when they can't even ask for it.

As it is now, the trial probably does discourage more people than encourage.

I think enough has been said about that. I don't think there is any reason not to be able to let there be 'free areas'. Don't think there's need to restrict level even (especially if you have already attained it before). Free/Premium choice, I would welcome. Yes.


The very least I think they should do, is reduce the monthly fee. I'd say at least half of the current fee would perhaps be enough, but I guess one can only dream about that. Perhaps they'll make another 'pay for XIV and XI at the same time, and get a wee bit of a discount, yo!'


Blubb.

[Arcon]

most mmo's cost around 15 dollars ffxi still hasn't changed ther subscription fee i think and it's been 12 for a long time...

It's 13, and that's "around 15" as well. Also, I don't know about the US situation, but that's not true in Germany and Europe, and from what I could find on Google after a 1min search it's not very true in the US either. WoW is the only one I could find that costs 15/month, and all of them, including WoW, have plans that can get you a cheaper total than FFXI (such as buying several months in advance). And that's still not counting additional characters, which many other games offer for free.


I'm confused here. FFXI sucks, so it should be free?

Square-Enix is still a business, not a public service.

It sucks, so it should be cheaper. Charging 50 bucks for a bag of poo is not good business. Profit = monthly fee * subscribers. If the monthly fee is lowered, the number of subscribers will be higher. Too low, and the number of subscribers won't change much, so you're cutting profits again. It's all about finding the sweet spot.

Free to play is a horrible idea though, for this game more so than for most others.


You do know that many mmos have actually made more money switching to FTP than they did with subs right?

Which? Do you have actual numbers or just heard someone say something at some point?

[oliveira]

There is one single reason why Trial people can't trade, send tells or form parties:


R.M.T.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

There still needs to be a way to get them into a linkshell, though.

And I still don't know if /autogroup works with a free trial account. Tempted to try finding out myself...

[Arcon]

There is one single reason why Trial people can't trade, send tells or form parties:


R.M.T.

No, the one single reason for that is SE's paranoia about RMT.

[Mirage]

Additionally, more than what? More than -5000000 dollars per month? If a game isn't making money at all, then it might start making money with F2P, but that certainly doesn't mean that a game that is already pretty profitable (FF11 is) would become even more profitable with F2P.

Y'all jumping to conclusions.

[xbobx]

"Which? Do you have actual numbers or just heard someone say something at some point?"

Dungeons and Dragons had their revenue go up by 5 times and Lord of the rings online went up by triple.

See, people don't look at the big picture. When people think a mmo goes ftp that their sub base stays teh same. The idea is that you increase your players dramatically so that the real money purchases end up more then the current subscriptions.

FFXI is perfectly setup for FTP because of its incredible time sinks. Want a new Weaponskill, well you can do the nyzul path, get to 100 then do quest, or pay $10. Want an emp weapon, well here is 50 chloris buds for $20.

People would buy that stuff. The people that didn't could do it the old way.

I think, this game would make more money on ftp model, or do some combo, if you pay for ff14 you get FF11 for free, and still put in the real money trade items.

[Rustic]

No, the one single reason for that is SE's paranoia about RMT.

It's not paranoia if it actually has those level of effects on a game.

And yeah, at one point it did before S-E went on the stompfest that continues today. Even Blizzard knows enough that if you don't keep your thumb on RMT, it'll start to wreck the game.

[Mirage]

Up 5x from what? 20 dollars a month to 100?

And no, everyone that didn't want to pay for it wouldn't keep grinding the old way, they would cancel their subscriptions and go somewhere else with their money.

[Dragoy]

Want a new Weaponskill, well you can do the nyzul path, get to 100 then do quest, or pay $10. Want an emp weapon, well here is 50 chloris buds for $20.

People would buy that stuff. The people that didn't could do it the old way.

Sure, people would buy them. Heck, they buy them now, even if not so directly (pay people to do Nyzul II for example). If it was made even easier, that makes me immediately think of that those people would run out of things to do quite soon since the game is based on them time-sinks and random. There really isn't much other things to do, is there?

I tend to do old, weird things with friends, which is the only thing keeping me in the game; I never really played it for the game itself, I guess. It's only fun for me with the great friends I have had, and lost.

I have always been against the huge time-sinks and random that is what FFXI is, but if you could just buy your way out so easily, what is the point in the game at that point?

Goes for any game, really.

[xbobx]

Up 5x from what? 20 dollars a month to 100?

And no, everyone that didn't want to pay for it wouldn't keep grinding the old way, they would cancel their subscriptions and go somewhere else with their money.


You are wrong, people would do it the old way and not quit, some would but they are babies that think they are special and entitled. Many people would play the old way, and many people new to the game would pay for some of that content.

Not sure if you know this, but a lot of people bought gil with real money, and the majority of people didn't quit because so many people were buying gil, in fact, many of them bought gil and lied about it.

Also, no, they are making 5 times more profit now that they switched to a ftp model over subscription model.

[xbobx]

Sure, people would buy them. Heck, they buy them now, even if not so directly (pay people to do Nyzul II for example). If it was made even easier, that makes me immediately think of that those people would run out of things to do quite soon since the game is based on them time-sinks and random. There really isn't much other things to do, is there?

I tend to do old, weird things with friends, which is the only thing keeping me in the game; I never really played it for the game itself, I guess. It's only fun for me with the great friends I have had, and lost.

I have always been against the huge time-sinks and random that is what FFXI is, but if you could just buy your way out so easily, what is the point in the game at that point?

Goes for any game, really.

yet millions of people do it. All that SE cares is they make more money. If they had research to show they woudl make more money going ftp with little effort on their part, they would do it in a flash.

[robotman5]

I rather it not go F2P it's fine the way it is IMO.

[Bizniztyme]

Stop being cheap, you don't want to play, cancel and move on. I'd rather ffxi be a small niche game then having a bunch of FTP players running around. The community will totally go down the drain.

[Zarchery]

Hmm. I think I understand the theory behind a player who would be attracted to the free to play model.

1) Buy gil to save time making it yourself.
2) Buy into leech parties to save time levelling on your own.
3) Use the /yell channel to try and find people who will sell you lotting rights to Rare/Ex items.
4) Complain that there's nothing to do.

[Zarchery]

You do know that many mmos have actually made more money switching to FTP than they did with subs right?

You're telling me that businesses made more money giving their product away than they do charging money for them? Post some proof or go home.

[xbobx]

Stop being cheap, you don't want to play, cancel and move on. I'd rather ffxi be a small niche game then having a bunch of FTP players running around. The community will totally go down the drain.

You do realize that if more and more people feel that the game is not worth 12.95 they will do exactly what you suggested. Problem is, you may not have a game to play then.

One thing people may not realize, is the expansion may actually end up killing the game. If the expansion comes out 20% done like other expansions have, with half promises and all that and the content continues to be leaked out, people could be more inclined to quit because its not worht 12.95, also many people that already subscribe but play very infrequently may not think it is worth it paying $30 for an expansion they don't play often, and considering they are locked out of content to do with their friends, they may just cancel all together.

This expansion needs to be fleshed out.

[xbobx]

You're telling me that businesses made more money giving their product away than they do charging money for them? Post some proof or go home.

or you could stop being lazy and google it yourself.

"http://www.gamesradar.com/lord-of-the-rings-online-revenues-double-after-free-to-play-transition/"

Here is one link to get your started in case you don't know how to use google.

[Bizniztyme]

If they are not willing to pay 12.95 right now they are not going to pay anything when it goes FTP, they will just be leaching off of the people that are willing to pay more. Good riddance.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

You are wrong, people would do it the old way and not quit, some would but they are babies that think they are special and entitled.

Maybe they are, or maybe they're not. Either way, a paying customer is a paying customer. You don't blithely drive away customers like that and expect to be in business for very long.

[Umichi]

or you could stop being lazy and google it yourself.

"http://www.gamesradar.com/lord-of-the-rings-online-revenues-double-after-free-to-play-transition/"

Here is one link to get your started in case you don't know how to use google.

yeah but the reason they went to FTP was because there wasn't enough people to sustain the game. they werent making any money lol..... i remember when LotR went f2p

[nyheen]

If they are not willing to pay 12.95 right now they are not going to pay anything when it goes FTP, they will just be leaching off of the people that are willing to pay more. Good riddance.

this is so true.

[Umichi]

No, the one single reason for that is SE's paranoia about RMT.



there was no paranoia... RMT's were abusing 14day trials back during the great inflation to quickly farm cheap items to npc them to make gil to sell to other players on almost a daily basis i would get /tells from at least 13 or so RMT's peddling their inflated cash. RMT's were also manipulating the prices of the AH so things would be exuberantly cheap when they wanted to buy something out. then they'd drive the price back up... learn your ff history plox

[Umichi]

as a matter of fact free trials is RMT 101: abuse them

[Arcon]

Dungeons and Dragons had their revenue go up by 5 times and Lord of the rings online went up by triple.

Have a source on that? Other than the one you posted, which contradicts what you said here and is from 2010?


See, people don't look at the big picture. When people think a mmo goes ftp that their sub base stays teh same. The idea is that you increase your players dramatically so that the real money purchases end up more then the current subscriptions.

FFXI is perfectly setup for FTP because of its incredible time sinks. Want a new Weaponskill, well you can do the nyzul path, get to 100 then do quest, or pay $10. Want an emp weapon, well here is 50 chloris buds for $20.

People would buy that stuff. The people that didn't could do it the old way.


You don't look at the big picture. What works for one game may not work for another. FFXI already had a lot of players leaving because they didn't wanna spend 15 bucks a month for the fee, due to content release slowing down. How much do you think the remaining people or the people coming back would spend on things they can already do or get as they are now? For that scheme to work, first you need lots of content, something this game is massively lacking right now, and second a player base that isn't as set in their ways as this one. This may work on a newer game where people are used to this from the start. Right now, if you made an empyrean buyable all the people who invested months in it would feel betrayed and angered about a bunch of rich kids buying them because they can just afford them. These are people who invested years in building their characters. And the few rich kids who would actually do that would not be enough to make up for the lost market.

To make this a viable business idea you'd need new content tailored to precisely this business scheme. And seeing how SE goes about updating content, it would not work out with any kind of profit for anyone involved, least of all the players.

Finally, you have one thing going for newer games that also doesn't apply to FFXI: advertising. When a MMORPG goes free to play, new players try it out which gives a boost in subscriptions. That way they get to see the game and can decide to invest money into it if they want to. But who would try out FFXI if it goes free to play when there are several games over a decade younger that are also free to play? Why choose a game that resorts to a free to play scheme to stave off its own death due to lack of content over any of the other alternatives?

Right now FFXI is still shitting out money for SE, because it provides just enough attraction to keep a core group of players interested, and even many of those are just there because of the break from XIV before the final ARR release and the promise of SoA looming on the horizon. But who would actually buy things for this game if they don't intend to play it for long or just wanna check the waters? New players certainly wouldn't. That would be something catered almost exclusively to older players, but they are the ones that least of all need it.


It's not paranoia if it actually has those level of effects on a game.

There are and always have been better ways to deal with RMT, just like there are better ways to deal with cheating and botting, but SE has demonstrated that they like to punish everyone just to make it slightly harder for the bad guys to operate freely. Not that it's really having any effect.


You are wrong, people would do it the old way and not quit, some would but they are babies that think they are special and entitled. Many people would play the old way, and many people new to the game would pay for some of that content.

You have no way of knowing that, just like I can't know for sure that you're absolutely wrong, although I'd be willing to bet you good money on it. I know how I feel and I know how all of my friends feel, and we can barely stay interested in the game as it is. If they let us buy everything we currently have to play the game for, most of us would quit, and statistics say we won't be the only ones.


Not sure if you know this, but a lot of people bought gil with real money, and the majority of people didn't quit because so many people were buying gil, in fact, many of them bought gil and lied about it.

You really like to just say stuff without any proof or evidence if you feel like it'll support your argument.

Guess what? I heard DDO shut down because Turbine, Inc. is completely broke, and the producers of LotR say their free to play scheme gave them cancer. Also, it reportedly causes abortions.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

People have listed examples of successful free-to-play MMO's (for varying degrees of "successful"), but how many FFXI players play those games currently, let alone have spent money in one?

It seems to me that if the playerbase would love a free-to-play system, they'd be doing so already in another game. FFXI is only ten years old, after all...

(And I'm still in favor of an unlimited free trial.)

[Edyth]

Is this game worth the 12.95, of course not. Look at what we got before compared to now. what we use to get in one update before is equivalent to a year or two of updates we get now. Anyone that thinks that 12.95 is still good value is just plain wrong. No one in their right mind would think so. But people will continue to play and considering Square Enix is one of if not the greediest game companies out there, I don't see it. SE is the one that charges $15-$20 for iOS and Android games when everything else is $5.

For those that say that the manpower is not there, well not our problem, if that is the case, drop the price accordingly. The expansion is being paid for by our monthly sub fees, it shouldn't be, that money is supposed to be for connection and regularly updates. The expansion should be paid for by the price of the actually expansion. Which of course they have overpriced.

In other words, what you're trying to say is:
"DUR DUR DUR I hate dis product an its to expnsive but ima buy it neway n complain DUR DUR DUR."

You are obviously very intelligent when it comes to money, and SE should listen to you for financial advice.

[Solonuke]

If you calculate in inflation, for me the game has become a lot cheaper to play over the years (depends on where you live of course). Other games that do use subscription models today have a subscription fee of 15 dollars.

[Zarchery]

The monthly fees I spend on this game save me money that I would otherwise spend on other video games or other forms of entertainment. It's cheap if you ask me.

I've had times when I didn't think the game offered me anything to do and wasn't worth the money. What did I do? I suspended my content IDs and stopped playing. I didn't say "this game is not worth the money, make it free!" I said "this game is not worth the money, I choose not to pay and choose not to play".

[xbobx]

Well considering I run the finance department for a national company, I actually know what I am doing.

Archon.

seriously, what wrong with you? It doesn't matter if the article is from 2010, he wanted to know which mmos made more money going ftp.

Google if you want. Look up D&D and LOTR, find out I am right, and shut your mouth.

why is it so hard for people to believe a ftp model can make money, and more money than a sub plan. You think these people making the decisions don't know what they are doing? They make 7 figure salaries and did a ton of research on comparing the two different models. You think they sat down and said, hey, I don't feel like making money anymore, lets be kind and go ftp. But I guess some people here seem to think they obviously know more than those people, and have no education or experience to back it up. I make comments, because, I have 25 years of experience in business.

[xbobx]

In other words, what you're trying to say is:
"DUR DUR DUR I hate dis product an its to expnsive but ima buy it neway n complain DUR DUR DUR."

You are obviously very intelligent when it comes to money, and SE should listen to you for financial advice.

If you took the first 4 years of content and compared it to the current couple years of content. Give it to people that are not into games (because most feel blessed to take anything a company gives them) and ask them if the price should be the same for both levels of content. I bet you won't find one person that says they should be equal.
You think there isn't an issue, and many here, because you are ability to think properly is clouded by your level for SE. But, just because you think it is fine, doesn't make it so.

So stop crying because someone may say something negative about this game. I have been here since the beginning, I know the value of money. I know how budgets work, how costs are allocated. The reason game companies, like SE do things like this, and do not update prices because the majority of gamers are idiots, well, the majority of the younger generation are I guess. They have this warped idea that we own the corporations and we should be proud to buy their products. But, that is not how the real world works, they have to work for our money, and the greed kicks in when they know they can get away with it. They know when they can get away with it, when they realize their customer base is complacent.

[nyheen]

If you took the first 4 years of content and compared it to the current couple years of content. Give it to people that are not into games (because most feel blessed to take anything a company gives them) and ask them if the price should be the same for both levels of content. I bet you won't find one person that says they should be equal.
You think there isn't an issue, and many here, because you are ability to think properly is clouded by your level for SE. But, just because you think it is fine, doesn't make it so.

So stop crying because someone may say something negative about this game. I have been here since the beginning, I know the value of money. I know how budgets work, how costs are allocated. The reason game companies, like SE do things like this, and do not update prices because the majority of gamers are idiots, well, the majority of the younger generation are I guess. They have this warped idea that we own the corporations and we should be proud to buy their products. But, that is not how the real world works, they have to work for our money, and the greed kicks in when they know they can get away with it. They know when they can get away with it, when they realize their customer base is complacent.

if you dont like the price of something then dont buy it. the price been the same since day 1. SE want the price to be $12 95 a month then that them. you dont move into a $900 a month house with papers signed etc then 5 month later complaining about the rent to high but nothing changed. move out if it over priced lol

[Rezeak]

While some people don't feel $12.95 is alot, i feel it's that the content released is not worth the cost. Before ya say it, i have shifted into paying for once every 2-4+ months for this game cause it's not worth it.

Example...

I spent about $13 on Steam and got Dead space 1 and 2 and Bioshock 1 and 2 (steam sale \o/)

When i spent $39~ on FFXI i got meeble burrow (which i was only allowed to play for 10 mins a day) and redone Limbus/odin.

Really as value for you money goes FFXI atm is terrible it may be better when we get SoA but ofc you'll be paying +$30-40 as well.

That said, if you do get 30 hour+ enjoyment of FFXI a month via exsisting/new content then it's worth but for alot of people like my self money can be better spent.

The biggest thing with me is that it feel that SE knows it's puts small amount of content and slap in a ton of time sinks which kinda ruins the fun (at least in my opinion) which i wish it didn't cause i'd love to spend a month w/ Meebles and be at the stage were i can just be social and help others out with things like nyzle but it just feels i'm stuck in time sink after time sink.

As for f2p, i really think SE need to listen to the commuity before they changed anything that major cause they'd prolly just hit us with more time sinks which you could skip for cash /shrug

[Bizniztyme]

Well considering I run the finance department for a national company, I actually know what I am doing.

Archon.

seriously, what wrong with you? It doesn't matter if the article is from 2010, he wanted to know which mmos made more money going ftp.

Google if you want. Look up D&D and LOTR, find out I am right, and shut your mouth.

why is it so hard for people to believe a ftp model can make money, and more money than a sub plan. You think these people making the decisions don't know what they are doing? They make 7 figure salaries and did a ton of research on comparing the two different models. You think they sat down and said, hey, I don't feel like making money anymore, lets be kind and go ftp. But I guess some people here seem to think they obviously know more than those people, and have no education or experience to back it up. I make comments, because, I have 25 years of experience in business.

lol funny shit....LMAO...please.....keep on going

[Bizniztyme]

While some people don't feel $12.95 is alot, i feel it's that the content released is not worth the cost. Before ya say it, i have shifted into paying for once every 2-4+ months for this game cause it's not worth it.

Example...

I spent about $13 on Steam and got Dead space 1 and 2 and Bioshock 1 and 2 (steam sale \o/)

When i spent $39~ on FFXI i got meeble burrow (which i was only allowed to play for 10 mins a day) and redone Limbus/odin.

Really as value for you money goes FFXI atm is terrible it may be better when we get SoA but ofc you'll be paying +$30-40 as well.

That said, if you do get 30 hour+ enjoyment of FFXI a month via exsisting/new content then it's worth but for alot of people like my self money can be better spent.

The biggest thing with me is that it feel that SE knows it's puts small amount of content and slap in a ton of time sinks which kinda ruins the fun (at least in my opinion) which i wish it didn't cause i'd love to spend a month w/ Meebles and be at the stage were i can just be social and help others out with things like nyzle but it just feels i'm stuck in time sink after time sink.

As for f2p, i really think SE need to listen to the commuity before they changed anything that major cause they'd prolly just hit us with more time sinks which you could skip for cash /shrug

Really? then why are you paying and playing? do yourself a favor and just cancel and never look back because you're too cheap to pay...good riddance....

[Rezeak]

Really? then why are you paying and playing? do yourself a favor and just cancel and never look back because you're too cheap to pay...good riddance....

Biz i feel ya need a little <3, getting angry cause someone has an opinion /cuddle :)

Like i said, i pay on average once every three month to try new content, do some dyna and catch up with some friends.

The only reason i don't pay it every month (cause i used to even if i didn't play) is because i feel that the dev team is just ignoring alot of the player base atm.

Unless you calling me cheap for not paying for a game i don't play? then /shrug

[Aldersyde]

That said, if you do get 30 hour+ enjoyment of FFXI a month via exsisting/new content then it's worth but for alot of people like my self money can be better spent.

30 hours to make the fee worthwhile? You pay more partaking of one evening in a movie theater, which comes out to 2 hours of entertainment if you're lucky. A night at the club or a pub is way more expensive. 4 cups of Starbucks coffee costs nearly the same amount as a month's sub to ffxi. A sub to most MMOs is a better deal than anything else you're going to pay for a month's entertainment. For value, only Netflix even comes remotely close.

God people say stupid shit on these forums. Please, elaborate on how your money can be better spent.

[Arcon]

Well considering I run the finance department for a national company, I actually know what I am doing.

I'm reasonably certain you can't run a bath.


Archon.

seriously, what wrong with you? It doesn't matter if the article is from 2010, he wanted to know which mmos made more money going ftp.

It does matter. It's a huge difference if a three year old released MMORPG goes free to play like LotR or if it's a ten year old one like this, and I explained the difference before. It also matters when the playerbase for the one is restricted to the game only, whereas the playerbase for the other is essentially the fan base of a book that's been massively popular for decades. Many LotR fans may not be interested in a game at all, but when they hear it's free to play, they figure it can't hurt. That's not the case for FFXI. FFXI caters to gamers, and if gamers wanted to play it, they already would have, even more so because there's hardly any new FF fans coming in due to the series' latest games being subpar.


Google if you want. Look up D&D and LOTR, find out I am right, and shut your mouth.

I did, I found nothing for D&D and I found only the one article for LotRO that you posted as well, and guess what, that article disagrees with you. You said their profits tripled, when the article said it doubled, which only supports my argument that you like to exaggerate your statements. No one is denying that they can be profitable, the question you refuse to ask yourself is whether that applies to FFXI as well:

why is it so hard for people to believe a ftp model can make money, and more money than a sub plan.

They can, no one is arguing that. But what works for one game may not work for another, and I've given you a list of reasons why. If you wanna keep arguing your point, attack my arguments, don't just point at LotRO and say "it worked for them". Because if you do, I'll do this: "Subscription fees work for WoW a lot better than free to play works for LotRO, so shut up."


God people say stupid shit on these forums. Please, elaborate on how your money can be better spent.

No need, you already did it for me:

A sub to most MMOs is a better deal than anything else you're going to pay for a month's entertainment.

Money is better spent on most MMOGs than on FFXI. Simple as that.

No one is arguing whether 13 bucks is a lot or not. People are arguing that 13 bucks is a lot compared to the alternatives we're given in today's market. This is not my personal opinion, this is from a strictly business perspective (personally I currently pay about 75 bucks monthly on FFXI related things, two own accounts, an account of a friend who otherwise also wouldn't be playing anymore and a server strictly for FFXI related things).

You people can say "quit if you don't wanna pay" all you like, but what you're too dumb to realize is that people are quitting because they don't wanna pay. And, in case you missed that part, that is not a good thing. I know many people who either quit completely or only resubscribe for a couple of months every now and then, because they don't feel their money is well enough spent. Now you can pat yourselves on the back and say "all is well then!" but that's a load of crap, because that's the reason why the playerbase is declining and why everyone is screaming and crying about the game dying.

It can be a smart business move to reduce the cost. Everyone who has ever tried to sell anything to anyone will confirm that. Just because you don't feel that it applies to you, others may feel differently, and I can confirm that they do. Reducing cost by a certain amount may make people resubscribe again.

Alternatively, offer deals like other MMOGs do, with reduced cost for longer subscription periods. SE are so rigid, both in their game design philosophy as well as in their business model that they essentially haven't budged an inch since 2002. And then they're surprised when things don't work out anymore. Not only the market but MMOGs in general have changed a lot, and you have to keep up if you wanna stay competitive. Since SE can't compete content-wise, the smart move would be to compete financially.

[Bizniztyme]

Biz i feel ya need a little <3, getting angry cause someone has an opinion /cuddle :)

Like i said, i pay on average once every three month to try new content, do some dyna and catch up with some friends.

The only reason i don't pay it every month (cause i used to even if i didn't play) is because i feel that the dev team is just ignoring alot of the player base atm.

Unless you calling me cheap for not paying for a game i don't play? then /shrug

You can honestly say that you have done everything there is to this game? If i list out all the things you can do in this game, you probably didn't even realized that the content even existed. And yes, you are cheap for complaining about 12.95 a month. I pay that for one dinner meal and all i get is a full stomach for a few hours. Value for your money is hell of well spent.

Nothing is wrong with having an opinion but when that opinion have no substance it's just comes out whinny and that's exactly what you're doing and that's why i'm calling you out.

[Rezeak]

God people say stupid shit on these forums. Please, elaborate on how your money can be better spent.

So if i don't play FFXI all month buying anything else is stupid. o...k... i'm stupid.

[Bizniztyme]

Money is better spent on most MMOGs than on FFXI. Simple as that.

No one is arguing whether 13 bucks is a lot or not. People are arguing that 13 bucks is a lot compared to the alternatives we're given in today's market. This is not my personal opinion, this is from a strictly business perspective (personally I currently pay about 75 bucks monthly on FFXI related things, two own accounts, an account of a friend who otherwise also wouldn't be playing anymore and a server strictly for FFXI related things).

You people can say "quit if you don't wanna pay" all you like, but what you're too dumb to realize is that people are quitting because they don't wanna pay. And, in case you missed that part, that is not a good thing. I know many people who either quit completely or only resubscribe for a couple of months every now and then, because they don't feel their money is well enough spent. Now you can pat yourselves on the back and say "all is well then!" but that's a load of crap, because that's the reason why the playerbase is declining and why everyone is screaming and crying about the game dying.

.

Dude it's still your personal opinion, how can you say that's a fact? I can say ffxi is worth more then what they charge, it doesnt make it a fact. It's just my opinion and what you're saying sir is still your opinion. I'll ask again, if you don't feel like it's worth that much, then why are you paying? You can make up any excuse you want, you're still paying so that means it's worthed because if it wasn't you wouldnt pay and that's a fact.

And right!!, you know more about business then a multi million dollar business. Come on man!!! Do you think they're too dumb to have not analyzed every single option to make more money? They're not a multi billion dollar company for nothing yo. Like you told the other guy "I'm reasonably certain you can't run a bath with your backseat CEO self :)

[Bizniztyme]

So if i don't play FFXI all month buying anything else is stupid. o...k... i'm stupid.

Complaining about paying 12.95 for a month of entertain is stupid.

[Arcon]

You can honestly say that you have done everything there is to this game?

I have, and that's still a stupid argument. Even before I did Garrison for the first time I knew I wouldn't like it. Do I have to try everything out before I get to complain about a lack of content? Does me not having every relic or mythic mean I can't ask for content I actually like?


And yes, you are cheap for complaining about 12.95 a month. I pay that for one dinner meal and all i get is a full stomach for a few hours. Value for your money is hell of well spent.

That's also completely misleading, like I said in previous post. These things have to be looked at in a competitive way. Food doesn't compete with FFXI. Food competes with other food, which is similarly priced. FFXI competes with other MMOGs, which are similarly priced, and among those it has one of the worst value/cost ratios.

[Arcon]

Dude it's still your personal opinion, how can you say that's a fact? I can say ffxi is worth more then what they charge, it doesnt make it a fact. It's just my opinion and what you're saying sir is still your opinion. I'll ask again, if you don't feel like it's worth that much, then why are you paying?

Because, like I said, it's not my opinion. To me, it's worth the money, that's why I pay. But it's certainly not because the game is objectively good. The entire structure is falling apart at every end, the game is buggy as hell and has been for over a decade, customer interaction is non-existent, content is repetitive and the release schedule is slow. That is not an opinion, that is fact. I enjoy what little there is atm, and I enjoy playing with my linkshell and helping newbies figure out how to play this wreck of a game and I enjoy doing certain related stuff outside of the game.


And right!!, you know more about business then a multi million dollar business. Come on man!!! Do you think they're too dumb to have not analyzed every single option to make more money? They're not a multi billion dollar company for nothing yo. Like you told the other guy "I'm reasonably certain you can't run a bath with your backseat CEO self :)

Multimillion dollar businesses go broke too. Do you think that's part of their ingenious plan that my unrich mind cannot comprehend?

SE got rich because they made games that were popular, not because they were great at business plans. If a game company stops making great games, they go broke. And FFXI is losing players. So yes, multimillion dollar companies do not always know what's best for them. They did not get rich because they have a clue. They got rich because they had fanboys. Right now they're losing fanboys. What does your genius mind say will happen next? Or will you leave the thinking to them, because they're obviously so good at it?

[Rezeak]

Complaining about paying 12.95 for a month of entertain is stupid.

Missed the point, all i said is for me 2/3 of the time my 12.95 is better spent. Like i said before when i don't play for a month there is no point in paying for FFXI. This in my opinion is common sense.

The reason i don't play isn't because i think I NEED $13 for steam. It's because FFXI lacks content for me and the dev team seems to be focusing more on making us jump through time sinks rather than let us just enjoy the new content.

Like i said it make me feel like i spent $30 on a game that tells me "You can only play this 10 mins a day" and all i can say is yea ... wtf.

Lastly, no i haven't completed everything in FFXI but why do things that i don't enjoy. Though i can say i have completed everything that to me is fun enough to keep my interest and for me is enough ^^ it's not like at the end of the day i'm gonna be like "My only regret in my life is that i didn't make a 3rd relic and complete the PUP storyline quests", it's just not that important to me.

Either way, value for time wise i wasted too much on something that'll prolly be read by noone that cares so keep well ^^.

[Caketime]

$13 will get you a case of decent beer, or dragons and goblins and headaches for a month. Seems like an easy choice to me.

[Mirage]

The obvious choice is a case of decent beer consumed while dragoning and goblining.

[Caketime]

Nothing goes better with goblins than beer. :3

[Bizniztyme]

I have, and that's still a stupid argument. Even before I did Garrison for the first time I knew I wouldn't like it. Do I have to try everything out before I get to complain about a lack of content? Does me not having every relic or mythic mean I can't ask for content I actually like?

Oh....so just because you don't like it it's not content....other people can't like it and enjoy it? GTFO... In that case, i'll say it again, don't like it don't pay....move on....

That's also completely misleading, like I said in previous post. These things have to be looked at in a competitive way. Food doesn't compete with FFXI. Food competes with other food, which is similarly priced. FFXI competes with other MMOGs, which are similarly priced, and among those it has one of the worst value/cost ratios.

OK...so your opinion is ffxi cannot compete with other mmos of today? I say they certainly are being up for 10 years and still making a profit....Just because you don't think it's value/cost ratio is not good doesnt mean other people don't think so...your opinion is not fact like you always seem to state.

[Bizniztyme]

Because, like I said, it's not my opinion. To me, it's worth the money, that's why I pay. But it's certainly not because the game is objectively good. The entire structure is falling apart at every end, the game is buggy as hell and has been for over a decade, customer interaction is non-existent, content is repetitive and the release schedule is slow. That is not an opinion, that is fact. I enjoy what little there is atm, and I enjoy playing with my linkshell and helping newbies figure out how to play this wreck of a game and I enjoy doing certain related stuff outside of the game.

Again, throwing your opinion out there like it's a fact. Try again. Just because you feel that way doesnt mean other people feel the same. I feel customer interaction is there, content is not repetitive but plentiful, and release schedule is just fine the way l like it. So just by that, doesnt make your opinion a fact.

Multimillion dollar businesses go broke too. Do you think that's part of their ingenious plan that my unrich mind cannot comprehend?

Sure, who would i trust more to know something? A muti billion dollar business or a backseat CEO that can't even run a bath?

SE got rich because they made games that were popular, not because they were great at business plans. If a game company stops making great games, they go broke. And FFXI is losing players. So yes, multimillion dollar companies do not always know what's best for them. They did not get rich because they have a clue. They got rich because they had fanboys. Right now they're losing fanboys. What does your genius mind say will happen next? Or will you leave the thinking to them, because they're obviously so good at it?

I'm no genius, again, i just know that i would rather trust a multi billion dollar business then a forum poster that thinks he knows how to run a business but really he can't even run a bath(your words)

[Bizniztyme]

Missed the point, all i said is for me 2/3 of the time my 12.95 is better spent. Like i said before when i don't play for a month there is no point in paying for FFXI. This in my opinion is common sense.

The reason i don't play isn't because i think I NEED $13 for steam. It's because FFXI lacks content for me and the dev team seems to be focusing more on making us jump through time sinks rather than let us just enjoy the new content.

Like i said it make me feel like i spent $30 on a game that tells me "You can only play this 10 mins a day" and all i can say is yea ... wtf.

Lastly, no i haven't completed everything in FFXI but why do things that i don't enjoy. Though i can say i have completed everything that to me is fun enough to keep my interest and for me is enough ^^ it's not like at the end of the day i'm gonna be like "My only regret in my life is that i didn't make a 3rd relic and complete the PUP storyline quests", it's just not that important to me.

Either way, value for time wise i wasted too much on something that'll prolly be read by noone that cares so keep well ^^.

Ok, i'll say it again, if you don't enjoy it, don't play. It's that simple and that's common sense. Don't be complaining that it cost too much when all it comes out to is about 50 cents a day.

[Bizniztyme]

SE got rich because they made games that were popular, not because they were great at business plans. If a game company stops making great games, they go broke. And FFXI is losing players. So yes, multimillion dollar companies do not always know what's best for them. They did not get rich because they have a clue. They got rich because they had fanboys. Right now they're losing fanboys. What does your genius mind say will happen next? Or will you leave the thinking to them, because they're obviously so good at it?

LOL they got rich because they had fanboys? How do you think they got fanboys in the first place? By having a business plan to make games to garner these fanboys. You sir are the one with no clue.

[Bizniztyme]

Nothing goes better with goblins than beer. :3

Definitely a great choice :)

[Arcon]

Bizniztyme, learn to quote. I can't even quote you properly, because you write your replies within my quotes.


Oh....so just because you don't like it it's not content....other people can't like it and enjoy it? GTFO... In that case, i'll say it again, don't like it don't pay....move on....

You were the one who shrugged Rezeak's opinion off because he didn't play all the content, as if that's somehow relevant. I just told you why that's bullshit. It had nothing at all to do with me. You essentially told him he's an idiot for not liking the same content as other people.


OK...so your opinion is ffxi cannot compete with other mmos of today? I say they certainly are being up for 10 years and still making a profit....

If I make a browser game that 10 of my friends and family (and possibly pets) play and each pay 1 buck a month, I'm making a profit. Does that mean I can compete with WoW?


Just because you don't think it's value/cost ratio is not good doesnt mean other people don't think so...your opinion is not fact like you always seem to state.

What I stated wasn't my opinion at all. I also stated my opinion in the same post, including why I consider the game good enough to play for three accounts, although you seem to have skipped that part. That comes with selective reading.


I'm no genius, again, i just know that i would rather trust a multi billion dollar business then a forum poster that thinks he knows how to run a business but really he can't even run a bath(your words)

Then don't trust me? Like I am a random forum poster to you, you're a random forum poster to me, I couldn't care less about what you think. I offered proper arguments so those with a brain can work with them and respond. If you'd rather stick your fingers in your ears and say "go away, you don't have a million dollars, you know nothing" then that's fine too.


LOL they got rich because they had fanboys? How do you think they got fanboys in the first place? By having a business plan to make games to garner these fanboys.

No, by making good games. Shitty games don't sell, no matter what the business plan. If you make a good product, people will want it. They will actually try to get it. FFXI hasn't been that product in a long time. Almost all "new" people in the last year were people who came back to see if anything new was on or people taking a forced break from FFXIV.

[fernando]

I have been playing from release,so it's safe to say i,m on the hook...lol.

[Bizniztyme]

Bizniztyme, learn to quote. I can't even quote you properly, because you write your replies within my quotes.

I dont know how to quote. Sue me.


You were the one who shrugged Rezeak's opinion off because he didn't play all the content, as if that's somehow relevant. I just told you why that's bullshit. It had nothing at all to do with me. You essentially told him he's an idiot for not liking the same content as other people.


How is it not relevant, he says the content is not to his taste and he doesn't enjoy it, it doesn't mean it's not content. I'll say it again, don't enjoy it, don't play it.


If I make a browser game that 10 of my friends and family (and possibly pets) play and each pay 1 buck a month, I'm making a profit. Does that mean I can compete with WoW?

Of course you're competing. You may not make as much money as them but you're competing no matter how small of a competitor you are, you're competing.



What I stated wasn't my opinion at all. I also stated my opinion in the same post, including why I consider the game good enough to play for three accounts, although you seem to have skipped that part. That comes with selective reading.

I quote you:


But it's certainly not because the game is objectively good. The entire structure is falling apart at every end, the game is buggy as hell and has been for over a decade, customer interaction is non-existent, content is repetitive and the release schedule is slow. That is not an opinion, that is fact. I enjoy what little there is atm, and I enjoy playing with my linkshell and helping newbies figure out how to play this wreck of a game and I enjoy doing certain related stuff outside of the game.

Entirely your OPINION. Nothing factual about it.


Then don't trust me? Like I am a random forum poster to you, you're a random forum poster to me, I couldn't care less about what you think. I offered proper arguments so those with a brain can work with them and respond. If you'd rather stick your fingers in your ears and say "go away, you don't have a million dollars, you know nothing" then that's fine too.

Are you implying i don't have a brain because I don't agree with your OPINIONS? Nice passive aggressive technique there, and yes, i would rather cover my ears and go shoo with the nonsense that you spit out about paying 75 dollars for a game you feel is not a good game.


No, by making good games. Shitty games don't sell, no matter what the business plan. If you make a good product, people will want it. They will actually try to get it. FFXI hasn't been that product in a long time. Almost all "new" people in the last year were people who came back to see if anything new was on or people taking a forced break from FFXIV.

Just because you don't think they are good games doesn't mean others don't think so. I think GW2 and WOW are shitty games, but they seem to still be selling well.

Are you sure the people who recently came back are just people coming back to see new content or from FFXIV? I see many brand new players that have never even played before. Now, is that a fact again or just your OPINION.

So stop spinning your opinions as fact and you will not hear from me again. :)

[Waldrich]

no Fee = End of the World (Vanadiel)

[Tsukino_Kaji]

No, the one single reason for that is SE's paranoia about RMT.It's not paranoia when it actualy happens all day every day.

[Mookies75]

FFXI is old now and honestly the level and quality of the updates we get no longer mean it's worth the subscription fee, the game has also lost a lot of players.

Does Square have any plans to let FFXI go free to play with a cash shop anytime soon?

Go play your wow clones baddie. There is tons to do in this game.

[Mirage]

Entirely your OPINION. Nothing factual about it.
Not really. It's pretty factual that a bug exists. Either the bug is there, or it is not. The only subjective part of this is how significant you consider each of those bugs to be.

[Arcon]

How is it not relevant, he says the content is not to his taste and he doesn't enjoy it, it doesn't mean it's not content. I'll say it again, don't enjoy it, don't play it.

If he doesn't enjoy it, why should he play it? Just because content he doesn't like is there he's not to blame for canceling his account for a while if he feels he won't enjoy playing it.


Of course you're competing. You may not make as much money as them but you're competing no matter how small of a competitor you are, you're competing.

That's not competing, that's losing. It doesn't mean you know how to run a business either because you make a profit. How good of a business man you are is judged by comparing to the competition, not judging by whether or not you make profit at all. If I sell my pen to my neighbor I made a profit, it doesn't mean I know anything about businesses.



Because, like I said, it's not my opinion. To me, it's worth the money, that's why I pay. But it's certainly not because the game is objectively good. The entire structure is falling apart at every end, the game is buggy as hell and has been for over a decade, customer interaction is non-existent, content is repetitive and the release schedule is slow. That is not an opinion, that is fact. I enjoy what little there is atm, and I enjoy playing with my linkshell and helping newbies figure out how to play this wreck of a game and I enjoy doing certain related stuff outside of the game.

Entirely your OPINION. Nothing factual about it.

Everything in there is factual. And unlike you, I can support what I say with evidence: the game has many bugs that have been around for years (effects not working properly like WS effects not scaling with TP, incorrect item descriptions, etc.), it's cumbersome (cannot Alt+Tab out of the game, chat log loss on zoning, senseless inviting restrictions, etc.), content is repetitive (10k currency, 30k Alexandrite, 1500 plates of heavy metal, etc.), customer interactions don't exist (SE denying everything users suggest (with lies, if necessary), holding votes then ignoring them, not replying to important suggestions, etc.) and releases are slow as hell (WotG released over a course of three years bit by bit, a few Voidwatch battles released over the course of one year path by path, announced roadmap releases constantly pushed back, etc.).

All of that is horrible for an MMOG trying to compete in today's market. Are you telling me I imagined all of these? How is any of that my opinion?


Are you implying i don't have a brain because I don't agree with your OPINIONS?

I'm implying you don't have a brain because instead of arguing against my statements and trying to get your point across with evidence and proper arguments all you say is "that's just, like, your opinion man" and then try to belittle my intelligence apparently thinking that will make you sound more believable.


Just because you don't think they are good games doesn't mean others don't think so. I think GW2 and WOW are shitty games, but they seem to still be selling well.

You confuse good games with games you enjoy. BioShock was a good game. I know so because all the signs were there, good dialogue, good graphics, smooth controls, diverse weapons, etc., but I just didn't enjoy it. FFXI on the other hand has many factual problems that make it less than good (the ones I mentioned above, among many others). That doesn't mean there can't be aspects that I enjoy about it, sometimes even enough to make up for its flaws. That is the case for me. That doesn't mean I consider it good. I couldn't recommend it to any of my friends because I feel I'd be wasting their time and I don't wanna do that to them. But I know what I like, and despite its quirks I'm stuck playing it and have no intention of stopping for now.


Are you sure the people who recently came back are just people coming back to see new content or from FFXIV? I see many brand new players that have never even played before. Now, is that a fact again or just your OPINION.

It's a statistical argument, not my opinion. I can't speak for the entire population, but I took in about 30 players in the last two months (most from these forums, you can look them up yourself), which are a majority of the people who asked for help on here. Of those, only one was completely new (and sadly, I haven't seen them around for a few days now). That's a comparably large sample, enough to say with significant certainty that most new subscriptions recently are not actually new players. If you now say you see many brand new players, that leaves me two options: accept your proposition of a very unlikely scenario based on my own observations and add your samples to mine, or not risk contaminating my sample pool with your made up scenario. I'm open to either, because neither invalidates my point, but currently I'm leaning towards the latter based on my opinion of you and your hostile stance towards me and your tendencies to exaggerate and not present evidence for your arguments.


It's not paranoia when it actualy happens all day every day.

Fear can be reasonable. Paranoia makes people act irrational. SE's measures to deal with RMT are irrational and hurting the general population more than the RMT. Fear of RMT is good, paranoia is bad. Fear means acknowledging them as a threat and devising strategies to fight them. Paranoia means imposing a 1M limit on sending money. One is good, the other is senseless.

[Caketime]

Get a hotel room already, gentlemen. But before you go, take this taco with you.

http://imgur.com/fiNDRAy.gif

[Kari]

tl;dr entire thread, but my opinion on the topic:

Do what TERA did, sell subscriptions [or Crysta] as an in-game item and let people trade it.
It somewhat counters RMT and allows people to play for free if they can make Gil.

That or go F2P and find a good model that works. F2P models done right are largely more profitable than P2P, just because of how many people are playing. P2P really only works for WoW these days, due it's insane popularity.
In comparison to other P2P MMOs, FFXI is the only one I've mentioned to people where they would respond "That game still exists?" or "Wasn't that the one with Vaan?"

Either way, SE needs to do some better advertising. The last time I saw any public interest in the game was when FFXI started having steam sales. We're 2 months from Adoulin and there's no advertisement being done at all.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Either way, SE needs to do some better advertising. The last time I saw any public interest in the game was when FFXI started having steam sales. We're 2 months from Adoulin and there's no advertisement being done at all.

Quoted for great justice.

[Preed]

Does FFXI need to be Free to Play? No.
Does it need to get itself out there and advertise more to get more new players? Yes.
Could it have a purely-cosmetic RTM store? Possible.
If they made a service that changed your Race/Face/Gender, they would be swimming in money (and it wouldn't be broken or anything because race is so superfluous now-a-days, what with all the equipment that evens everything out).

[Bizniztyme]

If he doesn't enjoy it, why should he play it? Just because content he doesn't like is there he's not to blame for canceling his account for a while if he feels he won't enjoy playing it.

Isnt that exactly what i'm saying?...Don't enjoy it don't play it, don't go complaining a fee that is almost non-existent.


That's not competing, that's losing. It doesn't mean you know how to run a business either because you make a profit. How good of a business man you are is judged by comparing to the competition, not judging by whether or not you make profit at all. If I sell my pen to my neighbor I made a profit, it doesn't mean I know anything about businesses.

You asked a question i answered, did i say that you know anything about business? I said you are competing, no matter how big you are as a competition, you are competing.


Everything in there is factual. And unlike you, I can support what I say with evidence: the game has many bugs that have been around for years (effects not working properly like WS effects not scaling with TP, incorrect item descriptions, etc.), it's cumbersome (cannot Alt+Tab out of the game, chat log loss on zoning, senseless inviting restrictions, etc.), content is repetitive (10k currency, 30k Alexandrite, 1500 plates of heavy metal, etc.), customer interactions don't exist (SE denying everything users suggest (with lies, if necessary), holding votes then ignoring them, not replying to important suggestions, etc.) and releases are slow as hell (WotG released over a course of three years bit by bit, a few Voidwatch battles released over the course of one year path by path, announced roadmap releases constantly pushed back, etc.).

You said the entire structural is falling apart? Yes that's your opinion. The game runs just fine. I don't see anything structural falling apart. Of course the game has bugs, every single game in existence have bugs but the game is not falling apart like you seem to state.

Game being cumbersome? You name a few things wrong and you call a game cumbersome? Yes, entirely true for everyone that plays..sure....if you say so...

Name me an MMO without repetitive content? I bet you can't even name one.

Customer interaction doesn't exist? Maybe i'm seeing things but i see SE forum representatives reply to to threads every day, if that is non-existent I don't know what to say.

So you mad because SE is not replying to suggestions that are important to you? Maybe, just maybe, it's just not that important?

Releases are slow by what standard? Your standard? Then yes, i'm sure it's slow to you. It's perfectly fine for me. I haven't even done half of what's in this game, and i've been playing since NA release.


All of that is horrible for an MMOG trying to compete in today's market. Are you telling me I imagined all of these? How is any of that my opinion?

Yes, alot of that is still your opinion and i've reponded. All i'm saying is just because you feel that way doesn't mean other people feel the same way no matter how you slice it.


I'm implying you don't have a brain because instead of arguing against my statements and trying to get your point across with evidence and proper arguments all you say is "that's just, like, your opinion man" and then try to belittle my intelligence apparently thinking that will make you sound more believable.

The reason i'm arguing with you is because you keep on spinning your opinions as fact and nothing more. The evidence is there, i'm just letting you know you're not the only person in this world. There are other people that don't necessarily have the same opinions as you. If i'm belittling you, i apologize, that is not my intent.


You confuse good games with games you enjoy. BioShock was a good game. I know so because all the signs were there, good dialogue, good graphics, smooth controls, diverse weapons, etc., but I just didn't enjoy it. FFXI on the other hand has many factual problems that make it less than good (the ones I mentioned above, among many others). That doesn't mean there can't be aspects that I enjoy about it, sometimes even enough to make up for its flaws. That is the case for me. That doesn't mean I consider it good. I couldn't recommend it to any of my friends because I feel I'd be wasting their time and I don't wanna do that to them. But I know what I like, and despite its quirks I'm stuck playing it and have no intention of stopping for now.


Isn't good or bad games all subjective? You think Bioshock is a good game because of those reasons. I think ffxi is a great game because of the story lines. The great people that i meet in game. The battle mechanics, i know it's slow but that's what i enjoy. There are many other things. If i enjoy a game that means it's a GOOD FREAKING game to ME. Period. There are no good or bad games, it's just what people perceive them to be. One mans treasure could be another man's trash and vice versa. You can list a million things that make up a good game but in the end it's still subjective and still your OPINION. I think you're the one that is confused. Not everything is black and white.



It's a statistical argument, not my opinion. I can't speak for the entire population, but I took in about 30 players in the last two months (most from these forums, you can look them up yourself), which are a majority of the people who asked for help on here. Of those, only one was completely new (and sadly, I haven't seen them around for a few days now). That's a comparably large sample, enough to say with significant certainty that most new subscriptions recently are not actually new players. If you now say you see many brand new players, that leaves me two options: accept your proposition of a very unlikely scenario based on my own observations and add your samples to mine, or not risk contaminating my sample pool with your made up scenario. I'm open to either, because neither invalidates my point, but currently I'm leaning towards the latter based on my opinion of you and your hostile stance towards me and your tendencies to exaggerate and not present evidence for your arguments.

You already invalidated your point by saying there was one person that was brand new. If you would've said previously that it was a statistical argument, you would've had no argument from me.

Whatever man, i'm done here. The only reason i'm arguing with you is that you like to take your opinions as fact. You make some very good points but doesn't mean you're right. There are other people that play this game that doesn't feel the same as you and I'm one of them. That's all i'm trying to say.

[svengalis]

With a new expansion on the rise I doubt they have any plans for the free to play model.

[Arcon]

Isnt that exactly what i'm saying?...Don't enjoy it don't play it, don't go complaining a fee that is almost non-existent.

No, that's not what you were saying. You told him that he probably didn't even realize half the content existed, so essentially made the argument that he has to play everything to complain about content.


You asked a question i answered, did i say that you know anything about business? I said you are competing, no matter how big you are as a competition, you are competing.

I see, so you disregarded the context of the statement and the entire argument to harp on semantics.


You said the entire structural is falling apart? Yes that's your opinion. The game runs just fine. I don't see anything structural falling apart. Of course the game has bugs, every single game in existence have bugs but the game is not falling apart like you seem to state.

I'm not talking about bugs here. Bugs are oversights during programming you find and erase once someone points them out. I'm talking about cures doing record damage after an update entirely unrelated to cures. I'm talking about people losing daily trigs for two weeks after an update because SE can't find what's wrong with their code. I'm talking about SE admitting openly to not being able to fix things that third party programmers have fixed almost a decade ago. Unless you want me to assume that they're totally incompetent, that's due to their internal code being a mess.


Game being cumbersome? You name a few things wrong and you call a game cumbersome?

How many do I have to name? Because I can go on for hours. When does it stop being an opinion?


Yes, entirely true for everyone that plays..sure....if you say so...

Yes, it is. It is cumbersome for everyone. You have no idea what an opinion is. An opinion is how you interpret the facts in your personal context, but it doesn't change the facts themselves.

Not being able to skip CSs is cumbersome. Whether you mind that or not is your opinion. Not being able to escape out of conversations is cumbersome. Whether you're fine with it or not is your opinion. Having to wait one second between every single piece of gear you wanna move between inventories every time you change a job is cumbersome. Whether or not you enjoy that is your own thing.

It's the same in your reply to my BioShock comment. There are objective ways to judge a game. It will not determine whether or not you'll like it, but they are facts, not opinions. And they are an indication of how the masses will perceive a game. Sure, there may be individuals that will enjoy even the most objectively bad games, but going by these people is not a good way to run a business.


Name me an MMO without repetitive content? I bet you can't even name one.

I can't, and why should I? MMOGs live on repetitive content. Not having it would be entirely stupid by the developers, because it's cheap and saves time. But there are various degrees to it. Doing one simple event for a year with two other people who both only contribute to you (otherwise looking at three years) only to fulfill one requirement of several with varying degrees of absurdity for a weapon that isn't worth it in most of the possible cases? That is not the good kind of repetitive. That is the kind that will not keep people playing but rather alienate them (which is demonstrated by how many people have a mythic, and that number is still far off because most of the people who have it are just rich and bought most of it from people getting the materials from unrelated Salvage/Nyzul runs).


Customer interaction doesn't exist? Maybe i'm seeing things but i see SE forum representatives reply to to threads every day, if that is non-existent I don't know what to say.

Name one. And by one I mean one that wasn't "we can't/won't do this" or an announcement, that's not customer interaction. Interaction goes both ways, but SE go one way. They only tell us what they'll do and what they won't. The few times they do ask for our input, they don't seem to care about it in the end (see the BST pet poll or the Lv99 vs. Lv100 poll). The countless times people ask for improvement of game features (see macros, blinking, gear swaps, etc.), they cite shoddy game design as the main reason for why they can't add that feature at this point. When people submit bugs they make them jump through horrible hoops just to get to submit an error report.


Releases are slow by what standard? Your standard? Then yes, i'm sure it's slow to you. It's perfectly fine for me. I haven't even done half of what's in this game, and i've been playing since NA release.

The standard of the game industry. The standard set by competing companies. The standard set by players' expectations, which is why people complain about it all the time (yes, not just me, just look around these forums to get a small impression of what the general mood on that subject is).


You already invalidated your point by saying there was one person that was brand new. If you would've said previously that it was a statistical argument, you would've had no argument from me.

Again, semantics. It's still not just an opinion. You cannot have opinions on factual matters, only on their interpretation. If it's statistical, it can't be an opinion. Just because it doesn't make it a fact (and only because there isn't enough evidence to classify it as such), it's still an objective interpretation of such, not my subjective take on it. And that applies to pretty much everything I said. And as I mentioned, that is what makes or breaks a game.

FFXI had the benefit of being released relatively early on, with little competition in the MMORPG spectrum. Those days are over, competition is overflowing the market, so much so that players are changing how they play and not only what. Back then starting a MMORPG was a big project. These days most people only play shallowly for a bit, a year is already a long commitment to one game, and they expect to be treated to one year's worth of content in that time. And that goes not only to newer players, but also older players who have experienced the competition's market. While newer players may still have lots to explore in FFXI, older players who were in the endgame scene at 75 already and kept up with content releases are likely to have gone through similar phases such as Rezeak described. That is to check back every now and again for new content and be done with it again quickly.

[Caketime]

Aww, lovebirds. You two are so cute.

[detlef]

Aww, lovebirds. You two are so cute.If you have nothing to contribute, why post? If you think it's completely off-topic or offensive then report it and see if SE agrees with you.

[Xerius]

If a game isn't created from the ground-up being built around being free to play then the results of going free to play are almost always detrimental. Micro-transactions/PLEX systems could uproot the entire in-game economy virtually over night. If it doesn't do that it'll tend to hurt the developers more because RMTs tend to run rampant in free to play games. When creating an account is free anyone can make an infinite number of accounts. Plus, true F2P games tend to get fewer content updates than P2P and end up just going into micro-transaction store updates since that's where the producers make their money. Lastly, if Star Wars: The Old Republic has any lesson to teach it's that just because a game is free to play doesn't mean more people will play the game or that the game will be better. FFXI has some root problems that make it difficult for newer players to access such as the age of the game, no advertising for the game and the fact that a large number of the players are 5+ years old and have very little interest in helping newer players. </rant>

[Caketime]

If you have nothing to contribute, why post? If you think it's completely off-topic or offensive then report it and see if SE agrees with you.

Answering a shitpost with a shitpost does not a good post make. There's no real way to contribute anything more to the thread now, it's been dominated by a huge retard argument, and to be honest there wasn't much point to contribute in the first place. F2P isn't a model SE will embrace overnight, and going by the huge amount of whining right here around us at the very idea, one could say this entire thread is one giant shitpost made solely to create a "debate" wherein two or more posters add to their post counts for no reason other than to toss out some cheap insults or post images containing tacos, or something equally lame.

Way to contibute, by the way. Golf clap for you.

[Alerith]

If you're upset about the quality of the game and updates, and your conclusion is to make the game free to play, then you clearly aren't concerned about the game compared to your wallet. You just want a handout on one of the games you play.

If you were genuinely concerned about the game, you should be complaining about, and asking for, better and higher quality updates, not what payment model the game runs off of.

[Bizniztyme]

No, that's not what you were saying. You told him that he probably didn't even realize half the content existed, so essentially made the argument that he has to play everything to complain about content.



I see, so you disregarded the context of the statement and the entire argument to harp on semantics.



I'm not talking about bugs here. Bugs are oversights during programming you find and erase once someone points them out. I'm talking about cures doing record damage after an update entirely unrelated to cures. I'm talking about people losing daily trigs for two weeks after an update because SE can't find what's wrong with their code. I'm talking about SE admitting openly to not being able to fix things that third party programmers have fixed almost a decade ago. Unless you want me to assume that they're totally incompetent, that's due to their internal code being a mess.



How many do I have to name? Because I can go on for hours. When does it stop being an opinion?



Yes, it is. It is cumbersome for everyone. You have no idea what an opinion is. An opinion is how you interpret the facts in your personal context, but it doesn't change the facts themselves.

Not being able to skip CSs is cumbersome. Whether you mind that or not is your opinion. Not being able to escape out of conversations is cumbersome. Whether you're fine with it or not is your opinion. Having to wait one second between every single piece of gear you wanna move between inventories every time you change a job is cumbersome. Whether or not you enjoy that is your own thing.

It's the same in your reply to my BioShock comment. There are objective ways to judge a game. It will not determine whether or not you'll like it, but they are facts, not opinions. And they are an indication of how the masses will perceive a game. Sure, there may be individuals that will enjoy even the most objectively bad games, but going by these people is not a good way to run a business.



I can't, and why should I? MMOGs live on repetitive content. Not having it would be entirely stupid by the developers, because it's cheap and saves time. But there are various degrees to it. Doing one simple event for a year with two other people who both only contribute to you (otherwise looking at three years) only to fulfill one requirement of several with varying degrees of absurdity for a weapon that isn't worth it in most of the possible cases? That is not the good kind of repetitive. That is the kind that will not keep people playing but rather alienate them (which is demonstrated by how many people have a mythic, and that number is still far off because most of the people who have it are just rich and bought most of it from people getting the materials from unrelated Salvage/Nyzul runs).



Name one. And by one I mean one that wasn't "we can't/won't do this" or an announcement, that's not customer interaction. Interaction goes both ways, but SE go one way. They only tell us what they'll do and what they won't. The few times they do ask for our input, they don't seem to care about it in the end (see the BST pet poll or the Lv99 vs. Lv100 poll). The countless times people ask for improvement of game features (see macros, blinking, gear swaps, etc.), they cite shoddy game design as the main reason for why they can't add that feature at this point. When people submit bugs they make them jump through horrible hoops just to get to submit an error report.



The standard of the game industry. The standard set by competing companies. The standard set by players' expectations, which is why people complain about it all the time (yes, not just me, just look around these forums to get a small impression of what the general mood on that subject is).



Again, semantics. It's still not just an opinion. You cannot have opinions on factual matters, only on their interpretation. If it's statistical, it can't be an opinion. Just because it doesn't make it a fact (and only because there isn't enough evidence to classify it as such), it's still an objective interpretation of such, not my subjective take on it. And that applies to pretty much everything I said. And as I mentioned, that is what makes or breaks a game.

FFXI had the benefit of being released relatively early on, with little competition in the MMORPG spectrum. Those days are over, competition is overflowing the market, so much so that players are changing how they play and not only what. Back then starting a MMORPG was a big project. These days most people only play shallowly for a bit, a year is already a long commitment to one game, and they expect to be treated to one year's worth of content in that time. And that goes not only to newer players, but also older players who have experienced the competition's market. While newer players may still have lots to explore in FFXI, older players who were in the endgame scene at 75 already and kept up with content releases are likely to have gone through similar phases such as Rezeak described. That is to check back every now and again for new content and be done with it again quickly.

Dude, we have totally different meanings of what an opionion is so just let it go. Stop wasting other peoples time with a senseless argument. To whoever is reading, i would like to apologize for this garbage argument.

[hiko]

Complaining about paying 12.95 for a month of entertain is stupid.
do you pay your monthly fee for WoW, AND Rift AND Ryzom and everysingle paying MMO?


complaining about paying 12.95 for a month of nothing isnt

[Toadie-Odie]

The only real shortcoming is their inability to be brought into linkshells; it seems the best you can do with a trial player is to /befriend them. But I think it's long past time to overhaul FFXI's linkshell system regardless. Rather than relying on "inventory -1," FFXI linkshells should more resemble how linkshells were managed in FFXIV 1.x. This could be kludged easily enough by tightly integrating the concept of a "linkshell" in FFXI with the Group Friend List functionality of PlayOnline (which currently isn't even accessible from within FFXI). This would allow for linkshell holders to manage the group without certain players having to be online to do so, and would likely also allow for integration with XIV's social lists in the future.

And, of course, it would allow the inclusion of free players into the wider FFXI community without having to circumvent the anti-RMT measure of not allowing them to trade with other players.

(And it may even encourage S-E to do something meaningful with the Linkshell Community website for the first time since before the Gates of Paradise were sealed... >.> )

I can't agree with this enough. This game was designed to center around the player base community. I think it's a crime that free-trial players are excluded from the in-game community system and miss out on the heart of the game because of it.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

Just happened upon this:

http://dl.square-enix.co.jp/ff11us/vc2008/FFXI_TRIAL_MANUAL.pdf

It has instructions for all the things that a free trial account can't do. Hell, it doesn't even mention any of the limitations.

Of course, this is far from the first time that S-E's official documentation has failed to reflect reality or be properly compiled.

This is not how to welcome new players.

[Toadie-Odie]

The monthly fees I spend on this game save me money that I would otherwise spend on other video games or other forms of entertainment. It's cheap if you ask me.

I've had times when I didn't think the game offered me anything to do and wasn't worth the money. What did I do? I suspended my content IDs and stopped playing. I didn't say "this game is not worth the money, make it free!" I said "this game is not worth the money, I choose not to pay and choose not to play".

Yeah, as a mother of three children I gladly dropped my pool hall playing days to play this game instead as my entertainment. I don't need a babysitter just to play the game and it costs me a crap ton less a month then what I was shelling out weekly at the pool hall, because of course you don't just pay for the table. You go there and you end up buying drinks, snacks, mess with the jukebox, etc. I still love a good game of 9-ball even if I stink at it, but I love feeding my kids more.

I don't mind paying a monthly fee for this game. I believe in supporting companies I wish to see continue to operate and produce the products I want. This is how you vote with your dollar. Granted sometimes they do things to the game I don't agree with or don't fully understand but so far they haven't ruined my overall enjoyment factor. If they had I would have gone somewhere else already.

[Toadie-Odie]

$13 will get you a case of decent beer, or dragons and goblins and headaches for a month. Seems like an easy choice to me.

Yeah but since when does a case of beer last a full month? ;p

[Toadie-Odie]

Nothing goes better with goblins than beer. :3

Well... I could I argue for spiked coffee with my goblins?

[Destrover]

on the topic Discussion, i dont think S/E will go F2P anytime soon, espetially when the Older players that have been around since day 1 and few after, now have <and holding while paying generously> for 3 to 4 accounts just so they can have that multi player level completed but solo in terms lol, but they consider it QUITE fun indeed so they dont mind payin, what else they got todo right? lol

thats just more money to be made still.

There would also be so many more security risk factors in going f2p aswell i think. there wouldnt be "paid" Gm's for this game anymore, so it would get sloppy.

[Toadie-Odie]

Server maintanence could potentially go down the drain too if the pay-out doesn't turn out to be at least as high as what they are getting right now. I really don't want to see routine server outages.

[xbobx]

Server maintanence could potentially go down the drain too if the pay-out doesn't turn out to be at least as high as what they are getting right now. I really don't want to see routine server outages.

they would only do it if their research points at getting more money on a ftp model. You have ftp and a premium plan. Like swtor you limit areas like dynamis etc.

but either way, SE will do it if it will make more money, they won't do it if they will lose. All arguments don't matter. All that matters is what will make them more profit.
And if you think they care what you think, they don't.

[Toadie-Odie]

Oh I understand that the bottom line has the ultimate say in something like this.

Still doesn't change my current opinion of my money being well spent in this game though. I still enjoy the game and I'm happy with it. If they went to F2P I would have to wait and see what changes it made to the game before deciding if my enjoyment factor was altered in either direction.

Edit: I'm just concerned the game would take a turn for the worse from switching to F2P in the long run is all.

[Caketime]

Yeah but since when does a case of beer last a full month? ;p

The average life expectancy of a case of beer in my house is about 4 hours, less if it's a case of Leinie's Summer Shandy, that stuff tastes like candy. I advocate spiked beverages as well, but personally I have trouble controlling my intake after I get a good buzz going, and whiskey and vodka turns me into an angry kitty so I tend to favor beer over other forms of drank. It's good for an evening of being main heal during events that are designed to be as boring as possible from a support perspective, like Abyss NM spamming or VW in general, basically anything with an aura or alternate forms of status effects that can't be cured by normal means.

I realize that none of what I just typed has anything to do with F2P outside of being able to buy more cases of beer by way of free gaming, so here's a thing or two. With what we already know about who would make such a decision for the game and the possibly massive effects it could have on the entire community, and also going by the levels of Sadism expressed by SE's designs, this game could change drastically overnight in the worst ways possible. Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean it absolutely would happen but the potential is there.

Can you imagine hordes of people running around in hot pink cash shop items, spamming the chatlog with cash shop emotes, and referring to anyone wearing regular gear as "freebies"? It's called Hell, I once spent a summer there as part of an exchange program.

[Bizniztyme]

do you pay your monthly fee for WoW, AND Rift AND Ryzom and everysingle paying MMO?


complaining about paying 12.95 for a month of nothing isnt

HUH? I've read this at least 20 times and still can't make out what you're trying to say. If you're trying to say you pay and play all those games as well, that's your choice. You complain about a measely 12.95 because you endulge yourself in all those pay to play games as well? Who's fault is that?

If you're saying you're getting nothing out of paying 12.95 for a month of ffxi, then don't pay and play? It's that easy. Don't be complaining about the fee because yes, it's stupid.

If i'm wrong about what you're trying to say i'm sorry because like i said, whatever you typed there is very hard to get a coherent meaning out of it.

[xbobx]

Oh I understand that the bottom line has the ultimate say in something like this.

Still doesn't change my current opinion of my money being well spent in this game though. I still enjoy the game and I'm happy with it. If they went to F2P I would have to wait and see what changes it made to the game before deciding if my enjoyment factor was altered in either direction.

Edit: I'm just concerned the game would take a turn for the worse from switching to F2P in the long run is all.

It could. SWTOR was a disaster when they switched because they limited it so much that all they did was frustrate new customers. I understand what you are saying about the cost. But there is a difference to what you are willing to pay and what is acceptable. You really have to step away from the game and take an unbiased stance when looking at it. I could not see anyone seeing the value now compared to before. Look at this last patch, nothing really there. I am still waiting for the very simple to implement recycle traits they said they were going to do six months ago.
I use to enjoy the days of patch note announcements. There use to be so much content. Now you can predict what you will get, an update to their flavour of the month content.

Notice no changes to magian coins, and drops. People been waiting a long time to complete their weapons but can't because the content is completely dead on many servers.

[Toadie-Odie]

@ xbobx: Fair enough. I guess even after all these years of playing, I'm technically just a casual player. I log in nearly every day and simply fart around with whatever personal project I've got going on - even if it's just rearranging my Mog House furniture yet again. I never minded things taking awhile since I log in mostly just to chill. I find the price acceptable for my needs and I'm willing to pay that price to continue to enjoy what I do. This isn't to say my way is the right way. I know my slow but steady approach to things can/will/does drive people bonkers. So when it comes to my stuff, I take it at my pace but when I'm helping others with their stuff I take it as seriously as they do.

As for the promised updates that have yet to come... all I can say is if they don't cut that out it won't matter whether it's a sub or F2P model or not. You make no money at all if your player base is gone.

~~~ /tosses Caketime a beer: "hot pink hell"... hmmm lol I don't know but I think I get enough of that random weirdness with my boys at home. If the game goes that route and I chose to stay with the game I think I'll be content being labeled a "freebie loser".

[Helyos]

Camate can you please come in here and tell these people FFXI has no plans on becoming Wizards 101? That'd be great thanks.

[Mirage]

If they ever wanted to add F2P (P2W), it should be on separate servers. Do not mix subscription based players and F2P players.

[Rustic]

Either way, SE needs to do some better advertising. The last time I saw any public interest in the game was when FFXI started having steam sales. We're 2 months from Adoulin and there's no advertisement being done at all.

People forget that FFXI is chronologically about as old as Everquest.

EQ still puts out an expansion every year, roughly. They don't advertise them much at all. The PR machine for a game this old is very small, considering even the minimal effective investment in advertising wouldn't really bring enough of a response to merit spending it.

[Caketime]

If they ever wanted to add F2P (P2W), it should be on separate servers. Do not mix subscription based players and F2P players.

You just made a bad idea even worse with minimal effort. Quick, send in a resume to SE and showcase your talent for development! :3

[wildsprite]

I think honestly if they were going to make FFXI a F2P game they would have to do a lot of preparation and testing before implementing it, otherwise it would fail miserably.

somehow though I don't see anything like FFXI F2P becoming a reality unless FFXIV:ARR is a big hit, lets face it with all of the competition they have that isn't likely even if it does do better than 1.0 did


If they ever wanted to add F2P (P2W), it should be on separate servers. Do not mix subscription based players and F2P players.You just made a bad idea even worse with minimal effort. Quick, send in a resume to SE and showcase your talent for development! :3

and I agree, separating players is just a bad idea all around, Sony tried that with Ultima Online and it didn't work, somehow I dont see it working for FFXI either

[Mirage]

I never said I wanted either options, but if they were dead set on adding F2P i wouldn't want to be on the same servers as them.

[Brievel]

Doubt it will go free to play. The servers might as well be shut down indefinitely, rather than SE losing the profit from one of their best games. One of the main reasons that Final Fantasy XI has in fact survived this long is because of the money coming in from the amount of subscriptions to it.

[Arcon]

I never said I wanted either options, but if they were dead set on adding F2P i wouldn't want to be on the same servers as them.

I actually wouldn't. If they ever added this, I'd want people who buy ingame options for real life money as far away from me as possible.

[wildsprite]

the likely hood XI will ever go F2P is null, that part is a fact, SE is not going to partially change it, it will stay Pay to Play, likely till the life from it is gone, if you really want F2P options look around the net, there are plenty of them, you might even find one you like

now if they did decide to do F2P it is my opinion it should be all or nothing, because to have subscription and free together doesn't work well, it often screws up game dynamics and it often makes pay players leave, or the free players just give up, either way not healthy

but since we know it isn't going to happen I think people should lighten up on the whole idea

[Castanica]

Free to play month.

Seems someone is testing the water.

[Dragoy]

Free to play month.

Seems someone is testing the water.

Heh, well it isn't working too well, at least not fer me who had an account deactivated during this 'test'.

They say I had to pay off the bills for the previous 30 days, but I'm pretty sure that's not how the billing works nowadays.

>.>;

[Kincard]

I don't think you understand how free to play games work. They don't just open the servers and money magically appears, if they wanted to "test the waters" they would've done something like offer buying plasm for money or something (maybe not that obvious, but they have zilch instead). It's more likely it's just a "look how much new stuff there is in the game" period to encourage old players to resubscribe. Easy to get someone hooked again by just making them play a few hours.

[Anjou]

I don't think you understand how free to play games work. They don't just open the servers and money magically appears, if they wanted to "test the waters" they would've done something like offer buying plasm for money or something (maybe not that obvious, but they have zilch instead). It's more likely it's just a "look how much new stuff there is in the game" period to encourage old players to resubscribe. Easy to get someone hooked again by just making them play a few hours.

The fact of the matter is, is that FFXI still has a good bit of life left in it, because with the new stuff they implemented, I am definitely subscribed for a good long while. This was to just let old players come back to see what's changed, and while it wasn't executed like it SHOULD HAVE BEEN, hey I've been seeing an influx of players lately. I'd rather it stay P2P, just for the sole fact that it doesn't accelerate the death of the game (Because look at TOR, they went F2P for the first 20 levels, and all it did was piss everyone off. Why? Because too much content and races got locked up if you don't wanna fork up money.) Then comes the fact that employees will lose pay because a game isn't coughing up as much, people will get frustrated, complain, leave. That's only going to make the playerbase upset.


I say P2P, it's lasted so long and has continued to be a successful game for 11 years, I think if they care deeply for XI, they can produce content to keep it going for a good while. If their back is to the wall, yes F2P but only limited, but other than that if you make it F2P, the real problem is the influx of people coming in.


This is the Runescape effect. Every little prepubescent child will come onto this game, their bad mouthing behavior because they think they are cool cussing up a storm, and making everything miserable. It's the kind of little kids you find on CoD, always yelling "OMG CHEATER!" and trust me, they'll find a way to call foul play on someone who's put their time in on this game. Then there's the moochers, asking for handouts. This game was about earning your stuff, while RoE does indeed do that with weapons, you still gotta find your armor. If new players who are part of the F2P surge, things will only be worse...

[Castanica]

The fact of the matter is, is that FFXI still has a good bit of life left in it, because with the new stuff they implemented, I am definitely subscribed for a good long while. This was to just let old players come back to see what's changed, and while it wasn't executed like it SHOULD HAVE BEEN, hey I've been seeing an influx of players lately. I'd rather it stay P2P, just for the sole fact that it doesn't accelerate the death of the game (Because look at TOR, they went F2P for the first 20 levels, and all it did was piss everyone off. Why? Because too much content and races got locked up if you don't wanna fork up money.) Then comes the fact that employees will lose pay because a game isn't coughing up as much, people will get frustrated, complain, leave. That's only going to make the playerbase upset.


I say P2P, it's lasted so long and has continued to be a successful game for 11 years, I think if they care deeply for XI, they can produce content to keep it going for a good while. If their back is to the wall, yes F2P but only limited, but other than that if you make it F2P, the real problem is the influx of people coming in.


This is the Runescape effect. Every little prepubescent child will come onto this game, their bad mouthing behavior because they think they are cool cussing up a storm, and making everything miserable. It's the kind of little kids you find on CoD, always yelling "OMG CHEATER!" and trust me, they'll find a way to call foul play on someone who's put their time in on this game. Then there's the moochers, asking for handouts. This game was about earning your stuff, while RoE does indeed do that with weapons, you still gotta find your armor. If new players who are part of the F2P surge, things will only be worse...

This is silly.

I played FFXIV for a while and the community there is worse than any I've seen anywhere, that's p2p.

[Kincard]

The XIV community is pretty awful but it's not much different than XI's early days, before people realized that being a server-renowned moron would have consequences. That has gone down a bit for XI because of the ease of catching up but that's never going away in XIV as long as the DF exists.

Also worth noting the free-to-play period is a week, not a month. That barely gives them any sort of useful data for if they wanted to go F2P (how many players would we have after a month of F2P, how does that translate over to $$$ and does that make it worth it etc). I'm not saying XI will never go FTP but I think it's unlikely and what they're doing right now certainly doesn't give them any sort of useful information.

I find it worth noting for TOR though, that if you actually paid attention to how the game did they made a lot more money off the game once it went FTP, the fact that a bunch of vocal disgruntled people decided to spam hate about the game and its FTP system isn't indicative of how well its doing (And TOR is notably one of those games that got infamously targeted by groups on the internet because they think they're a bunch of rebels "sticking it to the man")

[Anjou]

This is silly.

I played FFXIV for a while and the community there is worse than any I've seen anywhere, that's p2p.

You want to know what's -really- silly?

F2P FFXI. Hardly anyone likes the idea.

[Castanica]

You want to know what's -really- silly?

F2P FFXI. Hardly anyone likes the idea.

Servers are dead, very much like these forums.

Something drastic needs to happen, Square knows this which is why I'm on the server and typing here without paying anything. Unless you can suggest another reason for 2 weeks f2p? They never did it before yet here it is, if there was no value in it why would they be doing it?

More players that used to play have left than are left here arguing for p2p. These forums used to be pretty busy, now you're lucky to get 4-5 posts a day.