What to do with EXP now..?

[Venat]

Everyone in my LS has everything lv99 and has all merits capped. I'm sure many of you have this done also. This is due to abyssea & voidwatch. Question is what can we use for exp now...?

How about new shop that requires you to trade in number merits for type of new currency.

Something like

30 merits=1 Experienced Token. Can spend the tokens on new/old relic or something completely different.

Requirement: lv99 & Have 5 merit categories fully completed. Any Job with all merits capped or Hp/Mp, Attributes, magic skill,combat skill, other, weaponskill all merits capped.

Moogle Shop
5 Experienced Tokens 2.5mil exp
Large Heavy Metal Pouch (10~50)
Large Alexanderite Pouch (10-~99)
Some new gear

Moogle Shop
50 Experienced Tokens 150mil exp
Any fourth stage Relic Weapon

Moogle Shop
500 1500mil exp
New SoA Relic Weapons

[Jalonis]

I'm not going to go ahead and shoot the idea down straight off, but whatever the rewards would be, they either need to be completely different or slower to accomplish the goal than the actual content by a large amount. If it took (numbers from arse) 300 hours in game to complete a relic, then it should take at least 600-1000 hours to merit for one. Since any idiot can kill worms all day every day.

[Zhronne]

I do not miss the old lv 75 xp/hr, but they kinda overdid it with Abyssea and Voidwatch.
I'm all for making the situation better than it was, but between that extreme and the current one there were a whole lot shades of grey.

It's a bit too late to turn things back now, after so many people capped everything and after so long.
Since they're so adamant on not removing cap on Merit upgrades (it wouldn't solve the issue anyway, just delay it further away) making so you can convert Merits into "something", whatever it is, could be a cool idea.
Would be kinda hard to balance it with certain rewards but sure, I'm all for it.

[Caketime]

I'm not going to go ahead and shoot the idea down straight off, but whatever the rewards would be, they either need to be completely different or slower to accomplish the goal than the actual content by a large amount. If it took (numbers from arse) 300 hours in game to complete a relic, then it should take at least 600-1000 hours to merit for one. Since any idiot can kill worms all day every day.

Any idiot can farm currency as well, why reward one form of derp and not another?

[Jaall]

I agree you should get something from exp and its a good idea, but the reward shouldn't be relics imo. The idea of relics doesn't go hand in hand with exp. Even emps wouldn't really be suitable, but maybe if they gave people the chance to buy voiddust with exp and not just conquest points etc? That would mean more VW shouts for more varied VWNM, and increase in EXP parties. Also it would increase the amount of times you could try for the infamous glowing weapons. I think this idea was attempted with making voiddust available from conquest points and the like but hardly anyone parties outside abyssea anymore, especially 75+, so I think this would be a more welcome use for exp.

[Mayoyama]

They have implied in several places that new things to merit will be added to the game (such as possible merit for increasing 1 handed weapon dmg).

Even if xp/merits were converted into items... I agree that should not at all be for R/M/E.. Making a relic at least generally requires some kind of effort .... leeching afk in a worm pt for 80+hrs does not

[Zhronne]

They have implied in several places that new things to merit will be added to the game (such as possible merit for increasing 1 handed weapon dmg).
Yes but on the long run this thing, just like removing merit caps (Originally Byth's idea which I wholeheartedly supported) doesn't solve the issue, it just delays it.
You can get XP so fast these days not even something appearently expensive like a 10>15>20>25>30 series of upgrades is gonna require a lot of time to get completed.

I'm not saying they should go back to lv75 FFXI model (it would be impossible even if they wanted to anyway), but they have to be thinking about a long term solution to make so XP is still interesting for players.
Being able to convert surplus XP into IS, Cruor, AN, CN or just plain items could be a cool long term idea, in addition with the merit categories expansion.



leeching afk in a worm pt for 80+hrs does not
If we were talking about 80hrs, yes I would agree. But what if you make that 16000 hours? Sounds like a big "effort" even if you're just afking lol
My only concern with giving "cool" items with XP points is that people with several accounts (and RMTs) would clearly abuse of that.
But if you use it as a way to enhance availability on the market of certain items (to slightly lower the price) or to give r/e stuff sure, why not.
They just need to make so the amount of XP required will be really high, and we'd be set.

[Mirage]

Let us feed merit points to the mystery box goblins!

[Rustic]

Everything at level 99?

Let people -that have capped all their jobs at 99- start converting exp into untradeable versions of endgame currency like Dynamis/alexandrites/etc. Doesn't have to be a great exchange rate, but at least that way there's progress.

[Avina]

Pretty sure this would just exaggerate the problem. Especially if endgame relic/mythic/etc currency got involved.

All linkshells would do would get a WAR to go into Abyssea and cleave for their alliance all day and night, and members would alternate taking turns. Meanwhile, everyone else in the group is racking up tons and tons of experience points which they would then turn around and spend on tons of currency.

Even if the currency gained was something slower than you would have by doing the event itself (someone mentioned 300 vs. 600 hours to get a relic), people would still opt for the easier method because it is easier. Plus with exping nowadays, you can just idle. Double the hours isn't going to matter if I can just idle in Abyssea and have it work for me.

Pretty sure it would just exaggerate the problem. Only way I could see it working really is if they gave you novelty items only, like nomad moogle cap or stuff like that.

[detlef]

XP has always been a way to improve your character outside of gear. Any improvement or expansion should be consistent with this.

[Dreamin]

So easy mode isn't enough already? We now want something for easy mode? I would much rather the dev spend their resources on fixing all the things that are broken as well as fullfilling all the promises that were made over a year ago. SMN still has 2 Avatars MIA, RDM still completely useless, etc, etc.

If you have trouble wasting xp, easy way is to just lower some merits and then raise them back up if it'll make you feel better that you're not wasting xp.

[Fynlar]

If you have trouble wasting xp, easy way is to just lower some merits and then raise them back up if it'll make you feel better that you're not wasting xp.Yeah, uhh...

SPOILER:

[WolfMoonstrike]

Some things I think it would be nice to spend that wasted exp points on are things like CP, IS, and AN. As well as possibly things to increase how many times you can do certain end game events. For example maybe with 30 merits you can spend an extra two hours in Dynamis, or buy I.D. Tags to do assault and Nyzul more often than currently allowed. Maybe even allow you to buy BCNM orbs.

This way its not a straight conversion of EXP -> currency and other endgame items but a way to earn them more often.

[Sotek]

Some things I think it would be nice to spend that wasted exp points on are things like CP, IS, and AN. As well as possibly things to increase how many times you can do certain end game events. For example maybe with 30 merits you can spend an extra two hours in Dynamis, or buy I.D. Tags to do assault and Nyzul more often than currently allowed. Maybe even allow you to buy BCNM orbs.

This way its not a straight conversion of EXP -> currency and other endgame items but a way to earn them more often.

This, along with Rank 15 (and CP gear for 99 cap) and ISNM/ANNM for 99 cap with new materials (Ethereal Squama, etc) and crappy NQ Lv.99 gear augments, not to mention whatever points SoA bring in (assuming it does).

Grinding for reduced timers is a great idea too, far better than just getting a Relic for grinding. Apparently nobody figured that eventually players would get all Relics/etc (certainly the ones they want) and once again have no use for EXP, reducing event timers should always be useful though. The only way that would ever cease being useful is if the developers stop adding new events, in which case "wasting EXP" is the least of your worries.

[Elphy]

maybe just stop joining exp pts if your capped at 99 and merits on everything, that would be the logical solution to this problem. :D

[Mirage]

Except the game throws exp at you for just looking at a mob the wrong way.

But really, 1 merit = daily tally for mystery box gobs. There is actually a very slight chance of getting 100 piece currency there. If we are to believe the goblins themselves.

[Catmato]

But really, 1 merit = daily tally for mystery box gobs.I support this.

[Ezikiel]

i like OP idea

[Alhanelem]

What to do with EXP now..?

Couple choices:

Don't EXP (the best choice)

Farm IS/CP, you still get this whether you're gaining EXP or not.

Or, keep your merit tank capped, and use them to change your merits around.

Also, some people have maxed everything and maxed all merits but lots of people havent, and lots of people choose not to.

(The extra daily tally points isn't a bad idea though).


Yes but on the long run this thing, just like removing merit caps (Originally Byth's idea which I wholeheartedly supported) doesn't solve the issue, it just delays it.But why do these people need a reason to exp in the first place? I'd personally be happy I don't have to do it anymore.

[svengalis]

Any idiot can farm currency as well, why reward one form of derp and not another?

I think the whole point of his post was that it is too easy to get exp for the rewards TC is asking. You don't even have to be at the keyboard to get exp.

[Zhronne]

But why do these people need a reason to exp in the first place?
The other people? No clue.
I can talk about me. I'd love XP to keep going, at least to a minimum degree, for three main reasons:

1) Because I like it! It's fun! What I hated at lv75 about xp is mostly it took too much time to get a pt and often it sucked, not too count it took way too much grinding to get what you wanted and I didn't have that sort of patience/time
2) Because other people still need it, and the less people look for xp, the harder it is for those who still do to find/assemble a pt. Giving people more reasons to keep doing xp (which is different from FORCING THEM to do it, which I wouldn't want) keeps the cycle going.
3) Because XP was one of the core elements around which old FFXI was based. Game changed and it's ok, but it would be cool if XP could keep a guaranteed spot in nowadays's game balance, even if much smaller than the one it used to have.

That's it.

[Zhronne]

I think the whole point of his post was that it is too easy to get exp for the rewards TC is asking. You don't even have to be at the keyboard to get exp.
You don't have to be at the keyboard to fish Hakuryus in beaucedine and then sell them to buy currency, either.

Altough I agree that while AFK xping was fun at the beginning, it became kinda retarded. Wish they "fixed" it when they still could.
What kills XP pts in my own view is the lack of variety.
It's doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over that kills the fun.
Back then it was weapon chains in sky, then stuff in lufaise, then colibri pts etc. Now it's all about semi-afk alliances in Abyssea, which was fun at the beginning because it was something completely new and never seen before, but it's boring now, by my standards.
If people still had a choice and could REALISTICALLY* swap between all these options and keep XP fun, doing at their own pace.



*in THEORY you still have this choice, an XP outside of Abyssea it's not too bad. A good PT can get more XP than an ugly abyssea alliance (been in some of those...). But that's THEORY, when we talk about REALITY then nobody does that, which means you can't do it either even if you have the choice. The few times I've seen people shout for old style pts (or the times I did myself) only nabs answer, and the final thing becomes frustrating instead than entertaining.

One could argue "if you have fun doing it, then keep doing it even if you get no reward for it" and no, sorry, it doesn't work like that.
It's both thins at the same time, it's fun ALSO because I get something out of it and I feel my character growing. Doing it without any purpose at all, no thanks. But that goes for almost anything else in this game, for me. It's not the same for everybody I suppose, but it's how things work for me.

[Caketime]

I think the whole point of his post was that it is too easy to get exp for the rewards TC is asking. You don't even have to be at the keyboard to get exp.

My point is that both methods are incredibly easy, where one method involves sitting in an FC alliance and the other involves spamming JA to make the coins pop out of the beasties' corpses. In Dyna you barely have to pay attention, just press buttons and watch for the color flash, then pull something else when the target dies. The only real difference between the two is that one requires you to at least press some buttons, higher brain functions aren't required and there's no player skill involved for either.

[Thegreatmonkey]

While I do like this idea, I think it should be something that we can get BC,KC,HKC,etc seals, or turn get more IS, CP, etc. If there are items to be gotten, it should be something that we can pick what stats we want to put on it and or enhance them.

[scaevola]

Man, forget a merit point shop. Give me the Vampire Black Market from Wild Arms V where you buy stuff with straight-up experience levels.

Two rules:

1) You cannot "bank" levels. Anything you buy will be extracted from your current job's levels at the moment of purchase.

2) You can buy up to as many things as you have levels for at that moment (e.g. 9 10-level items, 3 30-level items, 1 98-level super item, etc.) but you must be on a level 99 job to initiate the transaction, to avoid gaming it with low-level jobs.

There are a TON of things you could do with this.

[WolfMoonstrike]

The other people? No clue.
I can talk about me. I'd love XP to keep going, at least to a minimum degree, for three main reasons:

1) Because I like it! It's fun! What I hated at lv75 about xp is mostly it took too much time to get a pt and often it sucked, not too count it took way too much grinding to get what you wanted and I didn't have that sort of patience/time
2) Because other people still need it, and the less people look for xp, the harder it is for those who still do to find/assemble a pt. Giving people more reasons to keep doing xp (which is different from FORCING THEM to do it, which I wouldn't want) keeps the cycle going.
3) Because XP was one of the core elements around which old FFXI was based. Game changed and it's ok, but it would be cool if XP could keep a guaranteed spot in nowadays's game balance, even if much smaller than the one it used to have.

That's it.

This is actually a pretty good argument for why it's a good idea to have something to spend exp on. I would hate for exp parties to go the way of CoP(before level cap removal) and other events no one plays because they already have the rewards.

While the majority of the player-base doesn't have max merits on every job, it is only inevitable that more people everyday will. At some point (possibly years down the road, possibly sooner) most people will have max merits on all jobs and stop exping, leaving the people who haven't to be SoL.

[Alhanelem]

3) Because XP was one of the core elements around which old FFXI was based. That's only because old FFXI had nothing else to do but level up and do the missions. There was no real endgame when the game was new other than dynamis, which drained a lot of most ppl's exp so they always needed more.

There is so many options for what to do now that I don't EXP unless I really want to because it just means less opportunities to get into groups for other content.

[Zhronne]

That's only because old FFXI had nothing else to do but level up and do the missions.
If you ask me I think that's quite a wrong statement.
You talk about dynamis but before they finished adding all Dyna areas there were many other things to do other than XP. Ground kings, many other NMs, Sky nms, gathering, crafting, Expeditionary Force, Garrison, Ballista, BC battles etc etc.
Now we could argue the utility of some of these content, but nonetheless you had a lot of stuff to do other than XP.
Any way that's not the whole point of the issue, let's leave this aside for a moment.

People weren't doing XP because it was the only thing they could do, people were doing XP for other reasons:
Game was still new, very few people had capped levels and subjobs, majority of people had only one job at 75, also when they added merits that put another big chunk of xp to gather for all players. XP was slow and it took a lot to level up. Basically people kept doing XP because they *needed* it.
People died, and dying back then mattered, and sometimes you really died a lot and also if I recall the penalties were bigger and you recovered less XP with Raise 1. People used to delevel to 74 all the time
Can already guess from the earlier point, but one of the big reasons of why people kept XP, it's because SE designed a game where they imagined XP as a constant and never ending cycle. You capped a job? Ok no problem, you will want to xp another job. A patch changing something with lv 1-37 abilities and spells will make you want to level a new subjob, and so on. Why? It's simple. Back then to make XP you *needed* a party, to make so people could always assemble pts, they arranged game balance so that people would always want to keep doing xp. As long as people have reasons to keep doing XP there will be people looking for pt. As long as there is people looking for a pt, there will be people who won't get frustrated and will be able to do xp. It was an "endless cycle" of new jobs, new subjobs and new/returning players. It worked for quite a few years, of course with time it started to slow down, and Abyssea's >300k/hr afk XP alliances destroyed it all of course


These are the main reasons.
I'm not fool enough to ask for the current situation to go back to how it was @75 lol, I'd be crazy.
But at the same time I don't want to see XP completely gone from the game. Make it have a smaller place, make it so people will have less reasons to do it, but please give us a reason!
If they don't want to remove merit caps, then adding something to convert excess merits/XP could give people who still want to do xp from time to time a small motivation to keep doin it, while also keeping the "legacy" of FFXI alive at the same time.

Doesn't seem too bad to me, and doesn't seem a "small" thing like some of those suggested in this thread would make everybody else (those who don't want to XP ever ever ever again) feel "forced" to do XP.

[Umichi]

Let us feed merit points to the mystery box goblins!



your idea is gold

[Umichi]

might i also add SE reinstitues the death xp penalty from the past but make it more modern like only when you hit 99 on your first job?

[Limecat]

They could give NIN or THF an ability like gil toss, except you use experience points as ammo.

[Rustic]

You don't have to be at the keyboard to fish Hakuryus in beaucedine and then sell them to buy currency, either.

Yes, but doing that is botting. Hello, banstick. (and nothin' like banning an account that fished up to those skill levels to say "screw you".)


Altough I agree that while AFK xping was fun at the beginning, it became kinda retarded. Wish they "fixed" it when they still could.
What kills XP pts in my own view is the lack of variety.
It's doing the same thing over and over and over and over and over that kills the fun.
Back then it was weapon chains in sky, then stuff in lufaise, then colibri pts etc. Now it's all about semi-afk alliances in Abyssea, which was fun at the beginning because it was something completely new and never seen before, but it's boring now, by my standards.
If people still had a choice and could REALISTICALLY* swap between all these options and keep XP fun, doing at their own pace.

If Abyssea's xp-o-tron didn't exist, the number of page camps that exist to replace it are huge. Honestly, it was the most damaging decision S-E made, as it utterly rendered to trip from 1-99 actually a quick PL to 30 followed by leech mode.


*in THEORY you still have this choice, an XP outside of Abyssea it's not too bad. A good PT can get more XP than an ugly abyssea alliance (been in some of those...). But that's THEORY, when we talk about REALITY then nobody does that, which means you can't do it either even if you have the choice. The few times I've seen people shout for old style pts (or the times I did myself) only nabs answer, and the final thing becomes frustrating instead than entertaining.

One could argue "if you have fun doing it, then keep doing it even if you get no reward for it" and no, sorry, it doesn't work like that.
It's both thins at the same time, it's fun ALSO because I get something out of it and I feel my character growing. Doing it without any purpose at all, no thanks. But that goes for almost anything else in this game, for me. It's not the same for everybody I suppose, but it's how things work for me.

I don't think anyone would pitch a fit at the rate people level in book parties. The path of least resistance is the one taken, however- which is why most FoV/GoV goes un-used save for people trying to farm caskets or the like.

[Umichi]

personally i thought FoV and GoV helped redefine where people went to go level for xp but unfortunately that dream wasn't realized as people as we all know prefer the easy route. there are places i didn't even know was possible for me to solo at for decent xp and the change to mob xp just nmade it all the more better

[Umichi]

and also remember SE stated that aby was for higher levels to xp and merit in and gear up in... it was truly intended to be the penultimatel of trying to find high level merit and xp pty's.

[Rustic]

and also remember SE stated that aby was for higher levels to xp and merit in and gear up in... it was truly intended to be the penultimatel of trying to find high level merit and xp pty's.

...and it turned into something that you could do a "bring your lowbie to work day" and eliminate the process almost entirely for everyone all and sundry.

Seriously, if it wasn't for Abyssea you could park yourself someplace where the mobs are 10+ levels lower than you, wreak bloody havoc and still pick up exp at a respectable rate thanks to pages.

[Venat]

Yeah this be bad idea.... forgot about Cleaving. will refine this idea.

[Elphy]

Frankly easy exp-mode made we wanna exp less. I used to love exp pts but now I have jobs I'd like to lvl but the thought of book burning with 17 in lvl 1 event gear, 8 of which are afk leeching or keying for hrs, followed by weeks of the manditory seal/+2/empy grinding is unappealing. Yes its TONS easier and faster than going from 1-75 before but for some reason that just made it all the harder to get the initiative to do.

[Demon6324236]

Yes its TONS easier and faster than going from 1-75 before but for some reason that just made it all the harder to get the initiative to do.I think there are a few reasons why. Before, you used to join a party, start a convo, make a few friends, bitch about how slow leveling was. Also, you took a while to get a party, especially if you played one of the rejected jobs, so when you got one you were really excited.

Now days when you join a party most people are a bunch of zombies. People are afk or silent, and at least for me, it feels kinda dead. I used to enjoy the talking, the conversation, it kept your mind off of the fact your just standing around hitting things for hours on end, and kept you entertained. Now that its hard to find a party like that, I myself feel like its just me, which makes it practically feel like soloing, which is not the feel I want when I do a party, otherwise I would not have joined it. Now it feels more like I am dragging myself through it because I no longer have that conversation or something to keep me occupied.

[Alhanelem]

If Abyssea's xp-o-tron didn't exist, the number of page camps that exist to replace it are huge. Honestly, it was the most damaging decision S-E made, as it utterly rendered to trip from 1-99 actually a quick PL to 30 followed by leech mode.Whether or not it was "damaging" depends on how much you actually enjoyed the level-up process. Those that want more of a challenge to come from their leveling are totally welcome to find like-minded individuals to grind with. Competent players can still get really good EXP outside of abyssea, and you have a wide variety of locations to choose from.

[Kari]

I support the idea of turning merits into some sort of currency, as long as it's nothing amazing.
I strongly agree that exp is too easily gained, but I also don't want to "waste" it.
When I finish leveling and meriting everything, it's going to feel kinda bad when I get tons of exp thrown in my face and can't do anything with it.

IMO, revamp the daily tally system and have merits count for that. Maybe even limit the merit > tally ratio per day. I'd like to see daily tally suck a bit less as well but...we'll see. The potential for that system is much higher than it's current.

Turning exp into currency is something tons of other MMOs have been doing. See GW2 for example, where exp is thrown at you no matter what you're doing, and skill points can be spent on legendary weapons and other cool things.

In short though, make exp/merits worth -something- without a limitation. Not something worth grinding for, but something worth throwing merits at when you end up with a ton of them.

[Areayea]

going with that stuff, not to say anythin about soa, but we don't even know what kinda "tone" it's gonna be... like with RoZ there was the YAY I"M SAVING THE WORLD while exploring cool areas. CoP was a OMG THIS CONTENT IS IMPOSSIBLE (not the case anymore, now it is kinda like a awww cool storyline about creation of the world). ToAU was a very mercenary feel (I mean you either go big there or go home... we've all experienced this in ToAU, if not you prolly never explored). WoTG had a very VERY sad feeling along with it (I LOVED IT). and all this add on stuff isn't that great but they do give a glimpse of a feeling. That being said, we don't know if it has that "get experience points" type of feel, who knows, they may do something drastic with the merits to the point where they council out abyssea and do something new. No idea what's going on in their heads. anyway for reasons like this tho I still say they need to alleviate merit caps. You can actually establish a main job that way as well. But saying that stuff here is like telling your lunch. all that's gonna happen is it's all gonna end up shit anyway :P.

[Byrth]

This:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/24269-byr1001-Uncapping-the-Merit-Point-Categories?p=325745&viewfull=1#post325745

[Rustic]

Whether or not it was "damaging" depends on how much you actually enjoyed the level-up process. Those that want more of a challenge to come from their leveling are totally welcome to find like-minded individuals to grind with. Competent players can still get really good EXP outside of abyssea, and you have a wide variety of locations to choose from.

The only reason I see anyone of any significant level in those zones these days is 1) Casket farming 2) Leeching a mule/alt. Seriously, people will inevitably go to where the population is, and even if that population is half folks in their newbie gear AFKing.

Abyssea's exp system was a critical error, now unfixable. You put the endgame grind mixed in with the best level-up machine and steady loot/gil besides...and expecting the average player to avoid that is...well, derpy at best. The monkey will push the button over and over again for his rewards, and exping outside of Abyssea at most significant levels is dead.

It's one of the few cases where S-E made it TOO good for people as a mistake, rather than not good enough.

[Alerith]

All 99 jobs and merits are capped. That's nice and all but....

No one set of merit configurations is best for ALL jobs. Merits can be decreased and changed around. If you're constantly sitting on 30 merit points for some reason, why not adjust your chosen merits based on which job you're playing? Your merits are not locked after all.

[Chocobits]

Get rid of pointless currency systems like Dominion Notes and just give us repeatable whack-a-mole quests that reward gil, like every other MMO does?

It's basically the same as converting exp into things like Dynamis Currency, except it isn't.. because gil =/= being locked into any specific thing, but allows for the purchase of many things..

Still don't understand why the cruor nerf needed to be implemented.. people complained on the forums about Cleave shouts or something or other.. RMT MIGHT have been involved, and nostrils were flared. The idea never occurred to anyone that if gil flows easily, who is going to buy it?

At this point in the game, really, just put gil on easy mode like xp. All the old schoolers worked and slaved over their accomplishments etc etc. It really won't effect anything except to devalue trophy purchases like upgrade currency.

Not quite what has been suggested by OP and others, but with the same effect: Reward for your work.

[Rustic]

Get rid of pointless currency systems like Dominion Notes and just give us repeatable whack-a-mole quests that reward gil, like every other MMO does?

There's a fair number of them out there already, not counting the Gil reward from pages. At times, it's almost funny that people forget some of them exist- I made something like 20K on a level 1 mule just buying quest items well below the reward levels and turning them in around town. He's now level 4 fame without having killed so much as a bunny and occasionally gets hit up for a loan by my main. :)