Storing Attachments

[solodragon1984]

Storing Attachments on set so don't have to keep switching attachments every time you want to change the head/frame. which sometimes can take people awhile to cycle through the attachment lists.
Cause it is long overdue for pup for attachment sets for a set type of frame/head without having to spend minutes switching attachments to change the jobs.

Thank you for letting me rant on something that I feel is REALLY needed for puppetmaster

[Annalise]

Be nice if you could at least do one setup per head. Or just have a few palettes you could customize.

But alas I don't think they will ever do it. Just like they will never do it for Blue Mage spells either. They don't want you to be able to change frames and attachments quickly (even though BST [provided call beast is up] and SMN can change pets quickly) because they say it is unbalanced. Though they don't fully understand their balance claims anyways (SE said [via Camate] BST jugs cannot zone like PUP and DRG because of their longer timers, and how shorter timers on SMN and BST mean they cannot zone, even though SMN CAN zone and BST is the only job that cannot. That's an invalid official balance statement.)

So yeah... would be nice, but based on their past comments, not likely.

[Helyos]

Like the above said, PUP is like BLU in that it has a very wide array of functions available to it. Being able to access it all at an instant, is definitely overpowered.

[Toadie-Odie]

They did finally give and change DRG's Call Wyvern out of being a 2-hour ability (which I thought was horrible and I'm glad they gave DRG a new 2-hour, okay 1-hour now lol) so don't give up on them just yet.

Personally my thought is we are given many parts for the automaton: heads and frames. I think once you have collected all the frames and heads you have a total of four frames and six heads? In any case, we are talking about a magical machine in a world that allows us to have a neckpiece that works as a synergy furnance.

Please let us build one frame/head combination, with the attachments placed, and save that to an animator. This way you could only save as many builds as you have animators for and the automaton you activate is based upon the animator you have equipped at the time.

As it stands now the game has a total of four animators a PUP can get. (See the wiki for the list. (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Category:Animators)) For the players that desire to collect all of them, they could then pre-build and save up to a max of four automaton builds. Those that don't wish to collect them all, the old system of changing the automaton will still be available.

I think this could be do-able without damaging the balance too much. What are your thoughts on this?

[solodragon1984]

I Agree to you ,Toadie, they wont be overpowered cause it just makes pup an easier job to play and faster so you wont die cause it took a long time switching attachments just would have to push a button(Macro) and a whmhead,rdm body set and rdy to cure to save the puppetmaster

[Annalise]

They did finally give and change DRG's Call Wyvern out of being a 2-hour ability (which I thought was horrible and I'm glad they gave DRG a new 2-hour, okay 1-hour now lol) so don't give up on them just yet.

That would be where Deus Ex Automata comes in.

[Toadie-Odie]

That would be where Deus Ex Automata comes in.

I know, I just meant that SE had left the DRG's special ability as Call Wyvern for a very long time before changing it - meaning that if we continue to come up with ideas we're bound to hit upon something the developers will find workable.

[Helyos]

they wont be overpowered cause it just makes pup an easier job to play and faster so you wont die cause it took a long time switching attachments just would have to push a button(Macro) and a whmhead,rdm body set and rdy to cure to save the puppetmaster

if this ever happens then you chose the wrong frame to begin with.

[Toadie-Odie]

if this ever happens then you chose the wrong frame to begin with.

That's a point I can't argue with. However, I would like to see some increase in flexibility of Activating different frames - even if it means a new job ability (possibily merited) to control it.

Edit: I mean a new job ability that allows Activating saved frame builds.

[Helyos]

If you're really looking to get a quick switch, practice knowing exactly where the absolutely necessary pieces of what you're trying to do are at.

One instance I can recall was doing Silver Sea Remnants with some people and using blm head. THF pulled hate and got charmed and killed the bst, and was soon coming after me. I recognized that the one thing I need the puppet to do was buy me time. Nothing else was important. Putting on hermes' and getting to a straight hallway, all I did was take off all previous attachments, put on valor head/frame and activated. Maybe it wasnt the best the puppet it could be, but it served its purpose at the time.


they wont be overpowered cause it just makes pup an easier job to play and faster so you wont die cause it took a long time switching attachments just would have to push a button(Macro) and a whmhead,rdm body set and rdy to cure to save the puppetmaster
Going back to this scenario, if you really wanted to, you could have recognized you were in danger, deactivated, attached whm head and body, damage gauge, and activated.

But seriously, the proposed idea probably wouldnt even work as you think it will. You still have deactivate on a minute timer, so even if you did call out a new looking puppet you're stuck with it for that time period. Not to mention the puppet has to be kept at 100% hp the entire time, so I hope you get it out of range of any AoEs before its too late or you're burning a repair. So yeah, complicated.

If what you're doing doesn't allow down time to switch out a puppet, stick with the one that best fits the situation. If you're not doing this you're making it alot harder than it has to be.

[Toadie-Odie]

If you're really looking to get a quick switch, practice knowing exactly where the absolutely necessary pieces of what you're trying to do are at.

[...]

If what you're doing doesn't allow down time to switch out a puppet, stick with the one that best fits the situation. If you're not doing this you're making it alot harder than it has to be.

All valid points that I won't argue with - I agree with you. As BST I craft/buy the jugs I need for the task at hand in advance. I approach PUP in a similar fashion and try to prepare the automaton in advance for what I think I need.

My intent here is to brainstorm the idea presented in this thread. I see it being potentially useful to both the experienced and newbie PUP player alike since I consider myself somewhere inbetween. There is nothing wrong with exploring the concept of any idea. I like the idea of increasing flexibilty of the job and its pet.

I also believe the points you have brought up to address the issue using the already existing mechanics is valuable information. Some of which I hadn't considered, like bringing out just a head and frame build in a crisis.

If these forums are intended to give feedback, generate ideas, provide suggestions and even share information to the devs and players alike, then we accomplish that just by discussing the plausiblity of ideas such as this one. Even if the idea isn't implemented in the end the thread isn't a waste: just participating here has caused me to look at and consider the job differently. The next time I play the job I will remember what has been said in these forums - not just this thread - and experiment with suggestions that my fellow players have made. This is how I learn to become a better player.

Therefore I try not to treat any idea presented as "stupid" but instead try to look at what the issue the idea is trying to address and run with it. How can you fix it as a player with what already exists? How might SE adjust it in future update? If it was adjusted how might this effect the way we play? What can we do as a community to make it more enjoyable as a whole?

All of this is valuable discussion - not just for the devs but for us as the player base.


But seriously, the proposed idea probably wouldnt even work as you think it will. You still have deactivate on a minute timer, so even if you did call out a new looking puppet you're stuck with it for that time period. Not to mention the puppet has to be kept at 100% hp the entire time, so I hope you get it out of range of any AoEs before its too late or you're burning a repair. So yeah, complicated.

BST has a base recast timer of 5 minutes. Whether you use Leave or the pet dies, you are still dependent on this timer before you can call another pet. A one minute recast with an instantly ready Activate if you can keep the pet's HP at 100% is far more flexible YET there are players that feel that PUP isn't as flexible as BST. Why? I think perhaps it's due to the trade off with the time it takes to rebuild the attachments if you are changing the frame and head. Therefore it's very likely that SE won't make any changes to this feature to PUP.

SMN on the other hand has even greater flexibilty in swapping of pets on demand. I don't know the full details of the job since my SMN is only lv30 so I can't go into that. The pet job with the least amount of flexibilty is DRG from what I've seen since its behavior is largely dependent upon the subjob you chose.

I get the impression that the OP would like to see PUP's pet mechanics to be somewhere closer to the flexibility of SMN. If I'm wrong please let me know.

[Cabalabob]

I get the impression that the OP would like to see PUP's pet mechanics to be somewhere closer to the flexibility of SMN. If I'm wrong please let me know.

SMN isn't that flexible, we get short pet recasts but we get 1min-45second recasts on one buff and one DD move then we do nothing cause our pets lack the strength to DD without just being a tp feed, and we cant afford to buff our pet dd abilities out side of blood pacts cause we need all our gear slots on perpetuation gear. On top of that all our pets are blm's except one who is a whm and sucks so never gets used, the only reasons to switch is to use a similar nuke of a different element which is hardly versatility if fighting the same monster, to use a buff which is not a helpful versatility seeing as PUP's get all their buffs in one place(whm frame) and to use different physical blood pacts, but we only have 2-3 good ones so not much versatility there.

In many ways pup is far more versatile than SMN, it may not be able to switch with the same ease but it gets far more benefits from doing so.

On to the point of saving attatchments, I'm fine with the idea, but there would need to be a cooldown period to stop it being overpowered, same way BLU has a 1 min cooldown period on resetting spells. But having this cooldown would defeat the point of having saved sets for each frame. I mean it would be nice if you're just the forgetful sort who doesn't remember how you set up your pup the last time or just don't like swapping every time you switch puppet. But from a battle stand point it would need to be balanced to the point where it's a useless change.

[Toadie-Odie]

Well that's good to know about SMN.

I do agree that if a save build option was implemented there would need to be a balance of some kind. Maybe like a seperate job ability that could activate a saved build with a fixed timer seperate from the Activation timer would work.

[Gwodien]

On to the point of saving attatchments, I'm fine with the idea, but there would need to be a cooldown period to stop it being overpowered, same way BLU has a 1 min cooldown period on resetting spells.But having this cooldown would defeat the point of having saved sets for each frame. I mean it would be nice if you're just the forgetful sort who doesn't remember how you set up your pup the last time or just don't like swapping every time you switch puppet. But from a battle stand point it would need to be balanced to the point where it's a useless change.

Nailed it. copy it exactly as blu has it and make it almost purely utility, a non-combat ability maybe?
or if activate/dues ex is ready for use, and you used a saved attachment layout, it sets both to a 1 min cool down, or ads an overload like debuff that prevents the pet from acting for 1 min while it re calibrates itself and rewrites its programming to handle the sudden changes to its attachments/frames?

[Toadie-Odie]

The recalibration idea sounds like a workable feature I could deal with.

[Zagen]

Nailed it. copy it exactly as blu has it and make it almost purely utility, a non-combat ability maybe?
It already works like BLU... When you call your puppet it is setup exactly as you left it last time, just like how a BLU's spells are stored when they change back to BLU. Not only does it work like BLU's spell sets our current functionality under certain conditions (Activate/Dues timers and your speed at switching attachments/frames) can be faster than BLU.

Essentially making this change would lead to the recalibration idea which then further gimps PUP not helps it.

[Gwodien]

Essentially making this change would lead to the recalibration idea which then further gimps PUP not helps it.

pup doesnt need more help. it needs limitations. blu cant Freely change spells in field without a set back, and that far from gimps that job. why not just get rid of the activate cooldown entirely? its basically gimping the job.

yes, im being a little troll. but come on, think about what your asking for. why not give every job a free full heal every 1 min. because that is basically what your asking for here. it takes time and effort to switch the attachments and frames, making it hard to instantly deactivate the pet, change parts and activate it to heal you, yes, it can be done now as it is. but not without risk of not being able to pull it off fast enough in emergency situations.

[Zagen]

pup doesnt need more help. it needs limitations. blu cant Freely change spells in field without a set back, and that far from gimps that job. why not just get rid of the activate cooldown entirely? its basically gimping the job.

yes, im being a little troll. but come on, think about what your asking for. why not give every job a free full heal every 1 min. because that is basically what your asking for here. it takes time and effort to switch the attachments and frames, making it hard to instantly deactivate the pet, change parts and activate it to heal you, yes, it can be done now as it is. but not without risk of not being able to pull it off fast enough in emergency situations.
Maybe you should read what I said and not what you interpreted.

I never said I wanted anything, I actually stated that a change such as the OP's suggestion would lead to a restriction similar to the idea you presented (recalibration), and that would actually weaken PUP.

Honestly I don't want this change or any change to how attachments/frames work because it will mean a gimp of some sort. I'm quite happy with how setting up attachments/frames currently work.

You talk about BLU not having a setback have you actually played BLU? The moment you change a spell you can't cast any BLU spells for 1 minute.

[Absinthe]

Anything devs...?

[Horadrim]

They should just give us a second Automaton and divide Activate into two abilities: Activate I and Activate II.

The abilities would share a cooldown, and Deus Ex Automata would only revive the last Auto used. Then we can have two load outs preset up and switch between them easier. Or have one, and a have a second we can equip while the main automaton is fighting.

[Alhanelem]

This will happen around the same time BLU ever gets to save spell sets. .... which is probably never, but god dammit, both jobs need it bad.

(It seems to me like blu spell-setting and attachment equipping probably share some of the same behind-the-scenes coding, so adding this for one job would hopefully mean adding it to the other too.)

[Horadrim]

This will happen around the same time BLU ever gets to save spell sets. .... which is probably never, but god dammit, both jobs need it bad.

(It seems to me like blu spell-setting and attachment equipping probably share some of the same behind-the-scenes coding, so adding this for one job would hopefully mean adding it to the other too.)

Pretty much, and it kind of sucks.

Macro commands for setting spells/attachments would be a nice alternative.