Geo/RFN Details? Can has plz?

[hideka]

I am feeling a bit worried about the sheer lack of information regarding these jobs given that the expansion is nearly here. will we be given an opportunity to "test" these jobs on the test server prior to the expansion launching? i mainly ask this, because what SE thinks the player base wants, and what the player base actually wants, 9/10, are two completely different things... im not too worried about RFN right now, you can only mess up a DPS so badly. I'm Primarily worried about Geomancer... i have the horrible feeling that SE is going to pull a massive cop-out and basically make Geomancer into BLM V1.5 (kind of like how scholar was RDM 2.0).

Geomancer has a strong history of being a NON-MP Based class, Using Hand axes/1Handed swords, and Instant cast Low-Medium Elemental damage that carried an enfeeble, and wearing cloth/leather/light armors.

Geomancer has been an age old favorite class of mine ever since i played FF Tactics on the PSX, and it has been time and time again my number one wish for an expansion job in FF11. I wholeheartedly wish that the GEO that is coming out will live up to my expectations.

Would anyone from the community team mind taking a moment to comment on this thread to abate my fears a bit?

[Alhanelem]

what are you worried about? Is the fact that we haven't been flooded with news supposed to mean that these jobs are going to automatically suck?

You can't really use the "history' of any job to predict how it will work in FFXI, as many FFXI jobs differ quite a lot from previous games e.g. WHM and RDM getting certain spells normally associated with time mage.

Geomancers used MP in Tactics Advance 2, anyway, so to say they historically aren't MP mages isn't entirely accurate. Since they cast spells and aren't ninjas, odds are they'll use MP here as well.

[Antanias]

I wouldn't mind a video showcasing those two jobs in action tbh.

[Alhanelem]

I wouldn't mind a video showcasing those two jobs in action tbh.
Aye. So would I, I'm just not "worried."

[Sotek]

I've said it before, but the test server seems like it was made for expansions. Sad to see that they've not bothered at all, guess seeing the work going into ARRs launch got my hopes up. Seeing the jobs on the test server last year would have been great, even if they were a flawed mess like SCH originally was, at least they wouldn't be like that at launch and there might be something worth buying in March, maybe there still will be but I'll believe it when I see it.

[Sp1cyryan]

The expansion is about 76 days out. Have to wait until at least 69 days. :P


I've said it before, but the test server seems like it was made for expansions. Sad to see that they've not bothered at all, guess seeing the work going into ARRs launch got my hopes up. Seeing the jobs on the test server last year would have been great, even if they were a flawed mess like SCH originally was, at least they wouldn't be like that at launch and there might be something worth buying in March, maybe there still will be but I'll believe it when I see it.

There is an element of suspense any company maintains as to keep hype and initial sales up for their product. The test server will do its job after Adoulin is released.

ARR will never match up to the legacy of XI. Despite the widespread optimism about the game (not saying there shouldn't be) if 14 doesn't see success despite this it will go down as one of the biggest laughing stocks in gaming right next to Duke Nukem Forever. It already will always be known for its poor launch.

[hideka]

what are you worried about? Is the fact that we haven't been flooded with news supposed to mean that these jobs are going to automatically suck?

You can't really use the "history' of any job to predict how it will work in FFXI, as many FFXI jobs differ quite a lot from previous games e.g. WHM and RDM getting certain spells normally associated with time mage.

Geomancers used MP in Tactics Advance 2, anyway, so to say they historically aren't MP mages isn't entirely accurate. Since they cast spells and aren't ninjas, odds are they'll use MP here as well.

i don't weight any class judgement on FFTA2. it was a fun game, but it tried too hard to be different IMO.... " lets not call the kimono wearing katana wielding unit a samurai this time, even tho its abilities are practically cut and pasted from FFT.... lets call it a Parivir!" oh and dont even get me started on "green mage" trying WAYYYYYY too hard there.

i didnt say that they were going to suck either, just that i was worried that SE was going to muck it up or pull a BLM Clone Cop-out.

spells native to time mage?
History of Haste (in order of apperance):
FF1 - BLM
FF2 - BLM
FF3 - WHM
FF4 - WHM (AKA Fast if you played SNES)
FF5 - Time Mage
FF6 - No mage, learned through espers
FF7 - No Mage, learned through materia
FFT - Time Mage
FF8 - No mage - Learned via draw
FF9 - WHM/SMN
FF10 - White magic spell on tituses grid
FFTA - Time mage - Templar
FF11 - WHM RDM

Slow
FF1 - BLM
FF2 - WHM
FF3 - N/A
FF4 - WHM
FF5 - Time Mage
FF6 - No mage, learned through espers
FF7 - No Mage, learned through materia
FFT - Time Mage
FF8 - No mage - Learned via draw
FF9 - BLM
FF10 - White magic spell on tituses grid
FFTA - Time mage - Templar
FF11 - WHM RDM

as you can see, time mage has never really held dominion over anything other than i think Demi, Quartr, and Xzone....

[nyheen]

would be more fun and better if we just wait for the exp pack to find that out on our own. we already got some info with geo/rfn before. having it on the test server would kinda kill the fun. it would be like giving out too much info on a new movie/game before it even come out. also since almost everyone able to jump on the test server. if we was able to test jobs now or exp pack most people may not buy it on release day.

[Alhanelem]

I've said it before, but the test server seems like it was made for expansions. Sad to see that they've not bothered at all, guess seeing the work going into ARRs launch got my hopes up. Seeing the jobs on the test server last year would have been great, even if they were a flawed mess like SCH originally was, at least they wouldn't be like that at launch and there might be something worth buying in March, maybe there still will be but I'll believe it when I see it.
Well, mister negativity, there is still a ways to go before launch. Give it a few more weeks before we go all rage mode on SE mmk?


as you can see, time mage has never really held dominion over anything other than i think Demi, Quartr, and Xzone.... every game which had time mage, had these spells on time mage (but the fact that every game that has not had time mage and has a job system has these spells on whige mage, as does XI, it really annoys me when people ask for time mage, because other mages already have spells that time mage would/should get)

saying "FFTA2 tried to hard to be different" doesn't invalidate its existence either. It "counts" just as much as every other FF sidegame.

[Sotek]

There is an element of suspense any company maintains as to keep hype and initial sales up for their product. The test server will do its job after Adoulin is released.

I'm fairly certain they can put the jobs on the test server without destroying any suspense for the expansion, in fact it would probably boost the suspense. If they show how much work they're putting into the jobs it would only raise expectations for the expansion as a whole. If the jobs aren't half bad pre-launch, maybe they've finally figured out how to release expansions.

Instead I'm left expecting another hollow shell of an expansion which they'll fill in over the next two years with another two jobs which they aim to finish designing several months after launch. I'll gladly be wrong and SoA can be the damned most amazing expansion ever, but so far I'm not seeing any hype beyond "Oh my God, new zones I wont use because Abyssea is a thing". Granted, this is all just my opinion, but I'm pretty sure SE should give more of a damn about my opinion than that of the hardcore XI addicts out there. I'm a potential customer after all, not someone who bought the expansion at the Vanafest.


Well, mister negativity, there is still a ways to go before launch. Give it a few more weeks before we go all rage mode on SE mmk?

Interesting definition of the word rage.

Granted, this is the NA forums so nothing said here means squat to the developers, but if I'm complaining that at launch, there isn't enough content and jobs aren't finished to a reasonable standard, then it's better to complain sooner rather than later, so you know, they can fix it. Putting the jobs on the test server is by far the best way they can make them successful at launch, I'm not going to wait until March to start complaining about the substandard level SoA is launched at, because come March I simply wont give a flying fuck about XI anymore, unless they manage to absolutely amaze me. Now, I'd really like them to amaze me here, but in their ten year venture into the MMO market, I don't think SE has ever managed to release something in a particularly good fashion. Abyssea is the one exception to that, but that was a mistake, apparently.

Honestly, I don't understand why anybody is against GEO/RNF being beta'd on the test server. I know SCHEmbrava is nice and all now, but at launch it was an abysmal waste of space which took months for them to bring up to a worthwhile standard. If GEO/RNF have any chance of being released in that state (I'm sure a pure magic tank will do fine though), I cannot understand why anyone wouldn't want them to start the process of fixing them sooner rather than later.

[Sp1cyryan]

I'm fairly certain they can put the jobs on the test server without destroying any suspense for the expansion, in fact it would probably boost the suspense. If they show how much work they're putting into the jobs it would only raise expectations for the expansion as a whole. If the jobs aren't half bad pre-launch, maybe they've finally figured out how to release expansions.

Instead I'm left expecting another hollow shell of an expansion which they'll fill in over the next two years with another two jobs which they aim to finish designing several months after launch. I'll gladly be wrong and SoA can be the damned most amazing expansion ever, but so far I'm not seeing any hype beyond "Oh my God, new zones I wont use because Abyssea is a thing". Granted, this is all just my opinion, but I'm pretty sure SE should give more of a damn about my opinion than that of the hardcore XI addicts out there. I'm a potential customer after all, not someone who bought the expansion at the Vanafest.

Yes, in all honesty your WotG pessimism is what we all shout expect. Based on the manpower working there and SE's track record we should not have any expectations.

It is entirely possible they have not even finished the jobs yet to be able to actually put on the test server. Considering they still have three months and assuming the launch date does not get pushed back. Unless SE learned how2launch based on 14s rushed failure.

Just because people use abyssea for gear and leveling does not mean any zones will not be used. Abyssea will always be for leveling and that does not make all the other zones useless.

They will end up developing the jobs after they are released regardless as well since they have tweaked the other twenty jobs over and over again. It is not a bad thing, but yes I would not expect the story line to be done.

Most of us are excited, but we all just have to wait.

[Flyinghippress]

What most people tend to forget is that even though a job is released with a certain vision of use by the devs, most of the time the players change the use of the job. SE then fiddles around with the job over the course of a year or more to give the job abilities/traits that will be useful for how the jobs are being played.

This is why the AF/Relic took SO LONG for ToAU jobs. People were playing the jobs in a multitude of ways and thus the gear took longer to make. Some people used BLU for soloing/main heal/dps/support, PUP for main heal/dps (phys and mag)/soloing/focus on auto/focus on self.

So personally I think it's best if we don't turn the jobs into something else in our minds prior to release by seeing what they show us. This goes double for them though, they shouldn't have a set-in-stone role for the jobs until they see how we're playing them.


With that said: I totally think GEO is going to have a small amount of MP, have STR/DEX for a luopon modifier and be an up close DPS with bell shaped clubs and RNF is going to have a lot of MP and have it's runes deal elemental damage where INT is a major factor :D combined/reversed roles n stuff ftw!

[Phogg]

I hope they do NOT put the jobs on test servers before hand. Not everyone wants to bother with the test server and giving people a leg up on a new job, especially in a game with a playerbase that loves to say "this or GTFO" about playstyles after jumping to conclusions early would be stupid.

Would be nice is there was anything remotely close to some form of surprise in this game.

[SpankWustler]

Honestly, I don't understand why anybody is against GEO/RNF being beta'd on the test server. I know SCHEmbrava is nice and all now, but at launch it was an abysmal waste of space which took months for them to bring up to a worthwhile standard. If GEO/RNF have any chance of being released in that state (I'm sure a pure magic tank will do fine though), I cannot understand why anyone wouldn't want them to start the process of fixing them sooner rather than later.

In an ideal world, I'd want every single element of Seekers of Adoulin to be a surprise: the new areas, the new jobs, the new everything. So, I definitely understand why somebody with a different set of priorities than myself wouldn't want the new jobs on the test server. Some people are just okay with playing something new, even if that job's performance is more terrible than dead-grandmother-flavored frozen yogurt.

As for me, though, I remember how disappointing some of the new jobs added from Treasures of Aht Urghan onward felt for months. I'd be more than willing to give up some of the feeling of surprise if player-testing the new jobs could help the new jobs suck less vehemently.

All of the new jobs required some degree of adjustment, which is to be expected, but Puppetmaster and Scholar were barely even functional on day zero of their existences. I could have counted the sets of equipment Puppetmaster had that provided melee bonuses on one hand. Scholar was so anemic that, even though it had been touted as an excellent sub-job before release, it was barely appealing for that purpose until Sublimation and other elements were added to the job. The jobs were in such terrible shape that they felt incomplete and not yet ready for release, like an aborted fetus poorly pretending to be a toddler while desperately clinging to life.

Even Blue Mage, which was in pretty good shape on release, required some pretty major changes to the MP costs of its magical spells and other adjustments. Dancer remained usable but very mediocre until it gained native Dual Wield. Even new jobs that can be played with the intent to actually kill monsters with some modicum of efficiency don't pop out of the ether fully formed. I wouldn't mind a month's head-start on feed-back and adjustments even if the new jobs aren't a Scholar-level nightmare.

Although, I think it's also possible that the new jobs that were so bad as to feel not ready to be played literally were not ready by an expansion's. If that's the case, I guess it's not really a matter of testing and more a matter of waiting. Waiting while the new jobs are vehemently sucking.

[Yrusama]

Green Mage wasn't an act of non-conformity. It was an act of fan service. They added "Green Magic" to lump all buffs and debuffs into one category for FFXII, then decided fans might be interested in what a Green Mage would look like.

I agree about GEO, though. It's more traditionally a non-MP mage. It either can't hit very hard, or its spells are randomly selected. Neither of these traits make it good for an MMO, and it would quickly go the way of the RDM. Personally I'm excited to see how it turns out. I will laugh if SE plants another oversight job ability in there that players end up exploiting like crazy.

[Trumpy]

What is ARR mean? As much as Id like to see some expansion stuff on the test server, I kinda like the suspence of waiting til release day really. plus other than the 2 new jobs they barely have all that many features of the expansion out on release date other than zones and a few systems. Hoping it doesnt go WotG path and take 3 years to finish though.

Tho it would be nice to test the new jobs and tell SE if it is player approved tho as usually i doubt it would mean they would change anything bout the jobs after we tested them.

Oh and i feel like GEO will be more support with the aura (WoW shaman style) things with slight nuking power. Least in this ffxi version. I remember most the GEOs i played had some hard hitting spells in previous games though. Some not all spells.

[Hashmalum]

With major aspects of the game either up for change, or desperately needing change, we need to have some idea of how the new jobs work before we can reasonably discuss what needs to be done. I don't want to have to wait for months to see the "new magic tank job" before we can even START to discuss the problems with the enmity system.

[hideka]

What is ARR mean? As much as Id like to see some expansion stuff on the test server, I kinda like the suspence of waiting til release day really. plus other than the 2 new jobs they barely have all that many features of the expansion out on release date other than zones and a few systems. Hoping it doesnt go WotG path and take 3 years to finish though.

Tho it would be nice to test the new jobs and tell SE if it is player approved tho as usually i doubt it would mean they would change anything bout the jobs after we tested them.

Oh and i feel like GEO will be more support with the aura (WoW shaman style) things with slight nuking power. Least in this ffxi version. I remember most the GEOs i played had some hard hitting spells in previous games though. Some not all spells.

ARR is the upcoming Re-release of the updated FFXIV. they went back and overhauled the game for every single possible aspect.the game is actually playable, and extremely enjoyable now

BTW for anyone who doesnt know this is how they ended FF14 V1.0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h542YbZuwkQhttp://

[hideka]

you will have to forgive the crappy youtube quality. watching this video in HD from the origonal source is highly recommended.

[Mayoyama]

I also would prefer to just wait and have the excitement of racing to be one of the first to unlock the job and see what it is... knowing beforehand just spoils the excitement.... theres plenty of time after the expansion to complain (if required)

[Rustic]

I've got no problem at all with gear at this point- there's so much "generic" gear that if you just give Geomancers and Rune Fencers decent access to it that we'll figure out what works.

Cause trust me. If they don't test-server the jobs, that's the only way it'll work. That's the price to holding off until general release...nobody's going to be doing the mass play that's needed to actually get these jobs properly tuned. And even afterwards, we're guaranteed to see some drips who L99 the job a day after they unlock it complaining.

They WILL seem relatively hollow at first. They have to, if they're even a bit unique.

[Metaking]

Green Mage wasn't an act of non-conformity. It was an act of fan service. They added "Green Magic" to lump all buffs and debuffs into one category for FFXII, then decided fans might be interested in what a Green Mage would look like.

I agree about GEO, though. It's more traditionally a non-MP mage. It either can't hit very hard, or its spells are randomly selected. Neither of these traits make it good for an MMO, and it would quickly go the way of the RDM. Personally I'm excited to see how it turns out. I will laugh if SE plants another oversight job ability in there that players end up exploiting like crazy.
well they could have made its spells use use consumables maybe using a job ability to convert a crystal to x number of geo crystals(of the same element as the crystal used) used for there spells, could probly use the ablity without a crystal if the zone is experiencing weather.
i am kinda disappointed by geos look tho, its af looks more like a mystic/oracle (tao's mnk look) over geos normally native american/druid look

[Trumpy]

i was expecting a blue colored AF with a hood (with white furry trimmings) for GEO. I dont mind the new look for GEO though. but I want effing pants not hot pants and knee pads for females. I seem to remember kind of a longer coat on that pictures of it and i am not a fan of long coats short pants combination.

[Elexia]

what are you worried about? Is the fact that we haven't been flooded with news supposed to mean that these jobs are going to automatically suck?

We know this much:

1. Jobs will release half finished.
2. AF will release months later after everyone is long capped and thus have no use for it.
3. Relic will release even later and have no use for it
4. Empyrean will release even more later if at all.
5. Revisions a year later to completely change it.


i was expecting a blue colored AF with a hood (with white furry trimmings) for GEO. I dont mind the new look for GEO though. but I want effing pants not hot pants and knee pads for females. I seem to remember kind of a longer coat on that pictures of it and i am not a fan of long coats short pants combination.

Shouldn't have picked a Mithra then lol.

[Alhanelem]

We know this much:We don't know that much, actually. Those are just assumptions based on the previous expansion. The speed of leveling was slower at that time as well. AF/relic will most likely be delayed at most to the first update after. The timing of the AF and such was on purpose, just as releasing the missions a few at a time was on purpose. However, the pace of the game is faster now than it used to be, and unless they're REALLY morons, they'll be factoring that in.

Every new job/character/etc released in a game is going to have its share of issues initially. That doesn't mean it's "half finished," but when you release something into the wild, issues come up that you could not have predicted.


4. Empyrean will release even more later if at all.Every existing job got all 3 main JSE sets. There's no reason to expect any different this time around.

[Demon6324236]

Every existing job got all 3 main JSE sets. There's no reason to expect any different this time around.While we already know the jobs will be getting the 3 JSE sets (yes, this was confirmed months ago), we can not use that as a reference. Upon ToAU coming out every existing job was on Relics, yet ToAU and WotG job are not. Also, GEO and Rune will not be getting Emp weapons, of which every current job has one. So Saying that "Every existing job got this" is not really a good reason to think it will be the case this time. However, the 'what we know' area of what was said is very incorrect, as we have been given more info than that. At the same time, it is not enough to tell if these jobs really have a place in the current game, and if the jobs only are useful in new content if anything at all then we will have problems with them anyways as that excludes 90% of the game.

[Alhanelem]

It's really a bit presumptuous to assume that these jobs are just going to be useless.

[Demon6324236]

I both agree and disagree. While it is stupid to think the jobs will be worthless out of the box just because they are new, the info we do have makes it sound as though the jobs may be useless because of their design.

We are getting Rune, a job made to be a magic tank, and a melee fighter in one. We live in a best or gtfo game, meaning that if you do not have top tier power, you can be sure you will be talked down upon for it. For this very reason, Rune can not be counted on to be an accepted DD, even if it uses Great Sword, as it has already been said it will not be getting Caladbolg or Ragnarok, meaning it will likely be stuck with a limited supply of decent~good Great Swords anyways. The other side to this job is a magic tank, tanking as it is right now is broken on a few levels, but if that were not enough it has PLD to contend with, a job which can currently hit -87.5% Magic Damage taken with more than 10% chance to absorb it and 13% chance to nullify it with only the use of 7 pieces of gear and a spell. The job is set to fail currently if that is its only real uses because the way the community and the game itself are right now, and things will have to change quite a bit before Rune could really fill a role like they want it to.

Geo is an offensive and support mage, much like RDM or BRD, but with some unique features to its magic such as the directional placement around the mob or the 'sphere effect' like spells. Directional placement is ok, however again, enmity makes mobs practically spin non-stop, meaning unless it is NSEW* based rather than FBLR* based it is worthless for now because it will be impossible to place yourself correctly on a mob spinning like a top. Sphere effects we know little about in my opinion, however so far as I know there are two types of them. The first is placed on the Geomancer, anyone near the Geomancer will get the buff just like a Sphere Effect would work however anyone not near by gets nothing. Currently mobs spam a ton of AoE attacks, both in the form of TPs and in the form of normal attacks, which leads to a massive problem for them to buff people if they have to stand in death range. The second type is able to be placed on the ground, these can be destroyed however. This has the same problem for the most part, however depending on the HP these have, they may be more useful. In the end this job sounds as though it is a BRD but with Sphere Effects rather than normal buffs, which may end up leaving it out of the loop because it has gimmicks attached to what another job can do more easily.

Mind you everything I have said is based off what I remember about the jobs back when Vanafest announced them, so some info may be off. However so far as I remember this is the basics for the jobs, and going by them I can understand the want for them to be on the test server. Also as the past has shown, many other times jobs have been released with poor results, so expecting the same now is not completely unwarranted. I myself believe the jobs are setup to be problematic in the current game, however the talk of making defense more important by the devs makes it sound as though Rune may have more of a place in a DD spot due to being a tank and DD in one job, but the loss of 2 of the most powerful and accessible weapons in its area of expertise worries me it will not fare well. Also on top of that, both Geo and Rune look as though they are more jobs which fill in spots that push RDM farther back, this is a slightly bias opinion, however Geo is taking nuking, enfeebling, and buffing powers at very least, while Rune is a magic tank and uses elemental damage on normal attacks, both things that RDM once was in charge of.



NSEW = North-South-East-West
FBLR = Front-Back-Left-Right
Small note about the Geo section, because I used these abbreviations and did not want people to be confused or ask about them.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

When all is said and done, Geomancer needs an ability to find all the various ??? points around it, or at least the #%&ing gathering points...

Wide Scan, radar, don't care; Geomancer (and the players) need this. Spamming tab key for such long stretches is so ten years ago...