Gravity's Evasion Down Effect

[Carth]

For those that don't know, Gravity and Gravity II possesses a potent Evasion down effect. Gravity I gives approximately -10 Evasion, and Gravity II gives -40 Evasion.

The Eva down on Gravity I seems helpful but forgettable. However the -40 on Gravity II would be a huge boon on any evasive mob. However since Gravity is resisted on just about anything that matters in the entire game, RDM never gets to see this in action.

So my request is rather simple. Remove the effect of evasion down from Gravity, and make a new spell for it. Call it Immobilize, make it Earth element black magic, and make it a high level spell (75-99).

[Demon6324236]

That or separate the effects, so that even if the weight does not land, the EVA down can.

[Tamarsamar]

I'd be all for making the Evasion Down unresistable! :D

[xbobx]

Its amazing how many people don't know this, most think its just weight so people don't cast it as an enfeeble.

[tyrantsyn]

This has been discussed before and I say now what I said than. We shouldn't have to take a nerf to a spell for it to work properly. If the Dev team would take there time and create content around spell's like this in order to claim a win. Than they wouldn't have to create clever stun's threw the use of ws, magic and JA in order to make content engaging.

[Demon6324236]

Well the sad thing about the spell is that even if you know its got the evasion down properties, any time you would really want access to that kind of enfeeble it is impossible to land. For example the NM in Neo-Temenos basement who spams flash all the time. It would be awesome to gravity it but its immune. Now when fighting the level 101 worm in Gustav who checks as Tough and I cap accuracy against, I can land gravity, but the effect of lowering its evasion is non-existent.

In reality I wonder how many people know, it could be small, or it could be many, part of the problem though is that few people who don't know would care to because it does not change the worth of the spell in the end. I know it lowers evasion, and anything I have ever said "hey, I should gravity this so I can hit it better" against, has been immune, so these days I often just don't bother with it anyways.

[Mirage]

I agree. Split Gravity's effect so that you inflict two separate status effects with the same spell, where each effect's accuracy is calculated independently of the other, and monsters can be immune to one of them without being immune to the other.

Immobilize is an all right idea, but doesn't absorb-agi do about the same thing, even if it might not be as potent as a separate eva down spell would be?

[Mageoholic]

Ive been saying for years they need to make the effects on this spell exclusive to each other. Then again in todays game with nearly every mob having move speed+ the weight effect is largely redundant anyhow. Id almost go as far as saying remove it completely at this point +5% Hit rate, and +20% hit rate is a pretty nice boost to our melee friends. So nice in fact that 20% increase would likely get nerfed if it was able to land.

[ManaKing]

Some is still better than none and none is what RDM has a lot of some days.

[Tamarsamar]

So nice in fact that 20% increase would likely get nerfed if it was able to land.

They haven't nerfed Shield Break yet.

Just saying.

[Carth]

That or separate the effects, so that even if the weight does not land, the EVA down can.

I'd go with this idea, but I'm not sure if this is even possible. Has any spell worked like this?

[Sunrider]

I'd go with this idea, but I'm not sure if this is even possible. Has any spell worked like this?
First time for everything.

[Calatilla]

I once knew a guy who considered himself the best RDM on Asura, when I mentioned the -eva on gravity he called me an idiot.

[Mirage]

I once knew a guy who considered himself the best RDM on Asura, when I mentioned the -eva on gravity he called me an idiot.
Good for him!


I'd go with this idea, but I'm not sure if this is even possible. Has any spell worked like this?

I don't see how this would be difficult to implement. It is certainly possible to make one TP move inflict several status effects at the same time, as you can see monsters do this pretty often. Doing the same with a spell, and giving player characters access to it is probably not very hard.

[Rustic]

I once knew a guy who considered himself the best RDM on Asura, when I mentioned the -eva on gravity he called me an idiot.

I used to open by slapping Gravity on mobs as they came into exp parties. New people would always joke I was afraid they'd run away when they saw us until I had them check the evasion before and after I'd do it. Was nice for keeping a mob from jumping too fast on a party member that overdid aggro, too, since they could literally outrun the mob at need.

[Llana_Virren]

I'd go with this idea, but I'm not sure if this is even possible. Has any spell worked like this?

Dia/Bio. Both have a DoT effect AND a status down effect, combined into a single icon/status.

[Tanama]

You know what's going to happen right? The development team is going to take this awesome idea (and the others posted on the RDM forum) and apply them to SCH, BLM, WHM and soon GEO + RNF.

[ManaKing]

Duh, that's what they do. Essentially RDM will be fixed when another job that uses Gravity realizes that it isn't favorable. Then they can do a blanket fix like healing, enfeebles, and soon to be elemental magic and 1h weapons.

I'm not really joking about this, also I'm pretty happy that broad strokes are how the game is being fixed because it all seems to be applicable to RDM in some way. They are just taking the long way to do it.

I would love Evasion down on gravity to stick, regardless of the weight. It really would do a lot for me personally. Go try fighting Goldwing with a RDM. It's really sad. Other jobs aren't really a lot better without a 2h Relic.

[Carth]

Dia/Bio. Both have a DoT effect AND a status down effect, combined into a single icon/status.

Dia/Bio can't be resisted either.

[Tamarsamar]

Technically Dia and Bio are resisted all the time, but what gets resisted is the initial damage of the spell. (Of course, this isn't taking into account Magic Shield, either.)

[Carth]

Technically Dia and Bio are resisted all the time, but what gets resisted is the initial damage of the spell. (Of course, this isn't taking into account Magic Shield, either.)

And that is irrelevant to my point.

[Tamarsamar]

Your point being? You said simply that Dia and Bio can't be resisted. I just pointed out that that's technically inaccurate.

[Demon6324236]

Actually it is relevant, the spells in a way have 2 parts to them, much like Gravity, however the initial damage and the effects on Dia/Bio are separate, where as the weight and EVA down on Gravity are the same. Were Gravity's effects separated it would be possible to make one part non-resistible, like the defense down part on Dia, while the other is resistible, like the damage on Dia. This is how I interpret it anyways, if I'm wrong please correct me.

[Carth]

Your point being? You said simply that Dia and Bio can't be resisted. I just pointed out that that's technically inaccurate.

Because damage and debuffs are categorically different. It's like saying Tier IV nukes are resisted all the time. It's an inaccurate response to my question when I simply asked has there been two status debuffs to a spell that had different resist rates. Dia/Bio were mentioned, which cannot have their debuffs resisted.


Actually it is relevant, the spells in a way have 2 parts to them, much like Gravity, however the initial damage and the effects on Dia/Bio are separate, where as the weight and EVA down on Gravity are the same. Were Gravity's effects separated it would be possible to make one part non-resistible, like the defense down part on Dia, while the other is resistible, like the damage on Dia. This is how I interpret it anyways, if I'm wrong please correct me.

As said before, Damage and landing effects are calculated differently. For one thing, status effects are not affected by MDB and MDT while taking damage is. Debuffs are not affected by MAB. Damage is not a status effect.

Anyway, I sought out my own answer to end this tangent. A far better comparison would be the Blue Magic spell, Bad Breath (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Bad_Breath), which has many debuffs but all have varying degrees of resist rates. So if we go by that, then yes, Gravity can have two different resist rates. The issue here would be how SE would communicate if the -Eva effect landed but the -Movement Speed is not, or even vise versa.

[ManaKing]

You make the evasion down always land....and when it wears of you say 'X's Evasion down effect wore off' or you clarify it as weight and since people hopefully can use their eyes. They can see if a mob is running at them or if they are crawling, since weight is extremely noticeable.

The only reason you would even care about this is if the evasion down from gravity was it's own unique status effect or if it was one of many evasion downs that override each other. On that subject, I only say that if we have the best evasion down, I don't want it overwritten by anything else. See Gungir + Angon for why this pisses people off.

[Ophannus]

Make gravity inflict movement speed down and evasion down with both effects getting their own resistance check. This would be similar to Auroral Drape which inflicts Blind and Silence. Either can land or resist separately and independently.

[Mirage]

Your point being? You said simply that Dia and Bio can't be resisted. I just pointed out that that's technically inaccurate.
And everyone (everyone else, at least) in the thread extracts Carth's specific meaning by looking at the context of the thread, so really, your sidetracking of the thread is pretty pointless and nonconstructive. If there was any doubt about what Carth meant by "can't be resisted", your input might have been important. However, that is not the case.