User Interface Update?

[Fusionx]

Any word on the new User Interface?

Back at Vanafest we were shown a tiny sample of what was currently in development and that they hoped it would be ready for Seekers of Adoulin.
http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/files/2012/06/ui1.jpg

Is it looking like the UI will make SoA launch? An update on this would be nice, maybe a few new images too /nudgenudgewinkwink

[odericko]

Is it looking like the UI will make SoA launch?

I hope so.

[Alhanelem]

There hasn't been any news on it, but supposedly it will be on the test server sometime before that.

[Limecat]

I'm going to guess "no" on principle. It's such a huge change I can't imagine they wouldn't have said something recently if it were getting close to completion. Also, if I'm not completely remembering wrong they had originally given a very rough guesstimate of closer to next November for SoA. Take that for what you will in wondering about whether the new UI will be ready to go or not.

[Zhronne]

I wonder if the new UI will be just for aesthetics or if it's gonna have functionalities too.
They mentioned being able to have two separate Chatboxes, but what else?


1) Will there be more accurate/detailed chat filters?
2) Will you be able to see additional information about your character? (Accuracy, Ranged Accuracy, Ranged Attack, Magic Defense, Evasion, etc)
3) Will you be able to change the font SIZE inside the chat box? Would be useful being able to reduce it a bit.
4) Will there be additional information concerning your buff/debuff? Like an accurate timer that displays how much time it's left before it wears off?

[Alhanelem]

I wonder if the new UI will be just for aesthetics or if it's gonna have functionalities too.
They mentioned being able to have two separate Chatboxes, but what else?


1) Will there be more accurate/detailed chat filters?
2) Will you be able to see additional information about your character? (Accuracy, Ranged Accuracy, Ranged Attack, Magic Defense, Evasion, etc)
3) Will you be able to change the font SIZE inside the chat box? Would be useful being able to reduce it a bit.
4) Will there be additional information concerning your buff/debuff? Like an accurate timer that displays how much time it's left before it wears off?Chat filters dont depend on the new UI- they could change them without it.

The UI isn't going to give any new information, it's just going to mean better configurability of the UI with the draggable windows and such- also mouse input is supposedly going to be better (e.g. not useless).

It can't give us new info (e.g. show us stats that aren't shown now) because it wouldn't be fair to xbox/ps2 who cant use the new UI.

[Zhronne]

The UI isn't going to give any new information
Actually they already mentioned there will be new stuff.
The double split chat box that I mentioned, but also PT/Alliance TP/MP data (that you can already see if you use Windower or similar tools).
Going by these lines, I was just wondering if there will be more or not.



It can't give us new info (e.g. show us stats that aren't shown now) because it wouldn't be fair to xbox/ps2 who cant use the new UI.
This is the way they wanted us to believe for the past 10 years, but it's a way of reasoning that has serious flaws, and they're the first who started to acknowledge that by starting to work on a new UI.

Being able to play at 1920x1080 instead of 540xXXX (PS2) is already an "unfair" difference if you want to see things that way.
If you consider these things unfair, then there are many already, some of which are way bigger than being able to see your Ranged attack would be.
Because seriously, how really "unfair" would that be? How big of an advantage would it create compared to PS2 users?

This just isn't the correct way to see things, because the next step would be to consider unfair the fact that some PC users can load zones faster thanks to SSD hard disks, better cable connections etc.
Let's just make everyone play at 800x600 with bad textures because otherwise that would be unfair towards people who still play with a 2004 PC with Windows 98 installed on it.


The "unfair" thing was just an excuse, plain and simple.

[Alhanelem]

Actually they already mentioned there will be new stuff.
The double split chat box that I mentioned, but also PT/Alliance TP/MP data (that you can already see if you use Windower or similar tools).
Going by these lines, I was just wondering if there will be more or not.You'll have to source this. Never heard anything of the sort. I don't think they'd ever give us alliance TP/MP because it's not fair to the console players.



Being able to play at 1920x1080 instead of 540xXXX (PS2) is already an "unfair" difference if you want to see things that way.A higher resolution isn't really an imbalance because it's purely asthetic. 16:9 FoV is available on all platforms as far as I know, so there is no advantage in field of vision.


because the next step would be to consider unfair the fact that some PC users can load zones faster thanks to SSD hard disks,FFXI isn't installed on my SSD (I have one) because I don't think it will benefit. zones already load so fast that the performance gain doesn't matter.

The only thing here that would truly be unfair is revealing alliance TP/MP and hidden stats, because those are things even legitimate PC players don't have, let alone the console versions. As I said, you'll have to source this information for me to believe it. i would agree with your "its just an excuse sentiment," but it is a legitimate concern, so you can't just go out and say that. I think everyone is just expecting it to do that becaues widower lets us do it.

[odericko]

You'll have to source this. Never heard anything of the sort. I don't think they'd ever give us alliance TP/MP because it's not fair to the console players.

I can't find a source on it either, though they did come out and say they're gonna allow users to make there own scripts for it. It's not clear what this means, but I'm thinking it's gonna be like UI mods/plugins for other games that official support them. Since the TP info and such is already in the game (just not shown) I'm pretty sure there's gonna be a script to use with the new UI to see that data. We got to wait and see I guess.

[Ziyyigo-Tipyigo]

I wonder if the new UI will be just for aesthetics or if it's gonna have functionalities too.


If I remember correctly, they mentioned changes up to and including an exposed API for legitimate Windower-style plug-ins.

[Alhanelem]

If I remember correctly, they mentioned changes up to and including an exposed API for legitimate Windower-style plug-ins.
Are you sure you're not confusing FFXI and FFXIV news?

[Corey]

if they can't implement a new UI with a new expansion at the same time, then wtf is happening?

doesn't it make sense to unfurl a new UI at the same time that you hope to be getting new subscribers!?

[Fusionx]

GE- It’s been mentioned that plug-ins might be supported with the new PC user interface. Can you tell us more about what tools will be made available to the community, what type of plug-ins will be allowed or forbidden, and if there will be some type of approval process?

SE- Using a tool we’re internally calling “Schemer,” we will be making it possible to freely customize and arrange existing functions with the graphics of your liking. We are currently looking into the overall approval process.
http://gamerescape.com/2012/07/25/gamer-escape-interview-post-vanafest-2012/#more-3967

You can pretty much skin and arrange the UI, so it all depends on what information they make available.

[Phogg]

The only formally announced change to displayed items IIRC was recast timers on the upcoming additional macro panel. I think everyone jumped to conclusions about other possibilities like party TP based on this:

"User Customization Features
The window scheme and GUI scripts for FFXI will be released so users can design their own interface features."

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/22877-New-Windows-Version-User-Interface

I thought there may have been some mention of party TP/ally MP etc in one of the letter style posts but I'm not totally sure.

[Zhronne]

You'll have to source this.
About what? The chat box? Look for Tanaka posts about it when he was talking a bout the new UI.
And about new data displayed? There was a survay done by... Camate I think, or another community rep, where he told us which other data can be displayed on screen in addition to the ones already available, and asked us to voice our opinion concerning that list.
It's different from saying "we are definitely going to do that", but it's pretty clear that they are thinking/working to do something along those lines.



A higher resolution isn't really an imbalance because it's purely asthetic. 16:9 FoV is available on all platforms as far as I know, so there is no advantage in field of vision.
Tell that to people who need to heal alliance members, or to those who need to have a clear and better idea on what's going on in the battleground.
Have you ever played on an PS2? Have you ever played in 1080p? You'd clearly know what I'm talking of.
And I mean playing, not just touching the pad for a few minutes.
There's a lot of things you notice (and apreciate) only when you play extensively in both ways.



FFXI isn't installed on my SSD (I have one) because I don't think it will benefit. zones already load so fast that the performance gain doesn't matter.
It does, the difference it's not huge but it's there.
Worth putting on an SSD? Wouldn't say that, unless you have a big one.
But even so, what's the point you're taking? I'm a bit lost here.
Nobody said you should install it on your SSD, you're free to do whatever you want of course.
I was just saying it does offer an advantage to people who do.
It's the same if you have a high quality swedish cable line compared to a low quality DSL or a PSTN line.
It's the same if you're japanese and live close to the server.
Those are all aspects that create clear advantage to some players instead of others.

We did a Chocobo LS race some time ago.
The swedish guy with cable connection (who also happen to have the game on SSD) was appearing on the other side of the loading zones much faster than the rest of us. After a couple of zones he was way far ahead than everybody else.
Just an example of the fact there already are a fuckton of differences, you're just lying to yourself so that you won't have to go through the effort to change your opinion, barricading yourself underneath it.

SE couldn't care less about fairness and all that, they just wanted an excuse to avoid doing some things, just like they've been lying for years about not being able to do something, just to do it a few years after because they wanted to. ><
[/rant mode off]

But seriously, it's time they stop with the stupid and anachronistic excuse of being fair toward everyone, it's never been like that anyway, it was just a silly (and unfair!) excuse.

[Alhanelem]

http://gamerescape.com/2012/07/25/gamer-escape-interview-post-vanafest-2012/#more-3967

You can pretty much skin and arrange the UI, so it all depends on what information they make available.
existing functions means you cant make it do something it doesn't already do, just make it look how you want it to look.


But even so, what's the point you're taking?the point is you're trying to argue various advantages PC users have and I'm arguing they aren't really noticeable advantages. Me playing with the game on an SSD isn't unfair to people playing on the PS2. doing something like using windower to get MP and TP info is, because they don't have any way to display that information even though it's technically available to their client.


And about new data displayed? There was a survay done by... Camate I think, or another community rep, where he told us which other data can be displayed on screen in addition to the ones already available, and asked us to voice our opinion concerning that list.Again, you need to source it. you're just talking out your behind until you provide a source (like an actual link, not a "he said she said").


The swedish guy with cable connection (who also happen to have the game on SSD) was appearing on the other side of the loading zones much faster than the rest of us. After a couple of zones he was way far ahead than everybody else.
Just an example of the fact there already are a fuckton of differences, you're just lying to yourself so that you won't have to go through the effort to change your opinion, barricading yourself underneath it.What does this have to do with anything? Some swedish guy's internet connection is not within SE's control. Parameters of the game and the UI ARE within SE's control. you're comparing apples and oranges. It's SE's job to keep the game balanced across the people able to play it. Once that's done, everything else is up to the player. Sorry Mr.Sweden's connection is bad, but that's not SE's responsibility.

All the other major differences you've already cided are not imbalances. Resolution doesn't give an advantage, it's all about asthetics. Aspect rato settings are available on all platforms, so there's no difference in field of vision across them. Graphics settings are just that- graphics settings. They don't directly impact gameplay.

[Zhronne]

Me playing with the game on an SSD isn't unfair to people playing on the PS2.
Trust me, you playin on PC on an SSD with a very fast connection is a BIG advantage compared to people playing on a PS2 with a PSTN connection.


Again, you need to source it. you're just talking out your behind until you provide a source (like an actual link, not a "he said she said").
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/22877-New-Windows-Version-User-Interface?p=309013#post309013
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/21514-Request-More-Information-in-the-Equipment-Window?p=294870&viewfull=1#post294870
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/21514-Request-More-Information-in-the-Equipment-Window?p=295241&viewfull=1#post295241

Again this is no official confirmation that these changes are going to happen, since it's work in progress and they can of course change their minds.
But I think it's pretty much to say they are at least seriously considering to do that.



What does this have to do with anything?
It's just an example to show the "being fair to everybody" is just a big fat lie.
The game has never been and it cannot be, they need to accept that a certain degree (within certain acceptable limits, of course) is unavoidable, and address things that way instead of always using the excuse "can't do it it's not fair" or "PS2 limitations".
Luckily they seem to have understood that, even if it took them 10 years...

[Dazusu]

Also, if I'm not completely remembering wrong

You are remembering wrong. They made no such estimate.


You'll have to source this. Never heard anything of the sort. I don't think they'd ever give us alliance TP/MP because it's not fair to the console players.

They have said several times that they are looking into doing this with the new UI. Start weeping console players.

Not like PC users can't already do it...


Trust me, you playin on PC on an SSD with a very fast connection is a BIG advantage

Not in this game it isn't. Zoning is no faster on SSD than it is on a regular mechanical SATA drive. That's what happens when you use shitty low quality textures. Remember these zones were made to load mainly into what small DRAM/RAM a PS2 has available. If your PC can't pull those textures from a mechanical drive in a hot second, you've got bigger things to worry about.

[Zhronne]

Zoning is no faster on SSD
It is? Test it with a low-end 5400 RPM UDMA33 hdd like the PS2 one and then an SSD and you'll clearly notice the difference.
Altough of course it's small, tbh it's barely noticeable (I have FFXI on my SSD and on my Caviar Black as well), but it's there.
There's a bigger difference with connection speed, the quality of your connection. You can easily test it by connecting with a low-end GPRS/EDGE/PSTN connection and then comparing it to a high quality cable line like those available in some countries.
There's also another difference in the overall latency if you play FFXI at your place or in Japan.
Have you ever been in Sekigahara? There are bars there where you can play FFXI for free. Have you ever noticed the huge difference there is when you use a JA and when the JA really goes off in the screen? When you interact with an NPC and the options are loaded up, when you zone and the time it takes for the items in your inventory to load up, the time it takes to sell/buy items from an npc, the time it takes to move an item from your inventory to your mog house.
There's a very noticeable difference and if you've been there and tested it you would know what I'm talking of.

Of course I'm not saying there is something exagerated like, say, 5 seconds difference lol, it's very small! But at the same time it's also clearly noticeable and I think it has a big impact when you play this game 4+hrs a day.

[Zhronne]

So Alhanelem you asked for the source, I gave you the source. Took me quite a bit of time to go through all the FFXI forums to look for those threads again. What's even more ironic is that you made posts in some of those threads as well, I have no clue how you forgot about them.

In before you write: "those are no confirmation at all, you're wrong, I'm right, those are no source blahblah"
I'm aware they can change their mind whenever they want, but I'd say from the amount of information we have in our hands atm we can say it's safe enough to believe they have pretty serious intentions about that all, to say the least.

[Alhanelem]

So Alhanelem you asked for the source, I gave you the source.You did. Did I complain? No, I didn't. I mean, is it wrong of me to ask people to back up their statements?

And yes, people can forget about things. We're only humans, or at least I am one. I'm not sure why you felt compelled to make a post to basically just say NUH UH! SO THERE!

Why are people so resistant to providing sources for their claims?

[Zhronne]

Why are people so resistant to providing sources for their claims?
Dunno about others, but for me it's because it's boring and requires you a lot of time trying to remember the right keyword to find the right thread.
Lost lot of time to find the right threads >_____>

[Trumpy]

I dont think they are so resistant to providing sources but it did seem like you had a POIDH attitude toward what he was sayin he "thought" he remembered, which felt like a NUH UH! from you. When he posted what he remembered, i also remembered seeing the same thing (and didnt feel i needed proof lol).

I for one cant wait for these changes, and really hope to see them soon. in his first link there the dev/community rep mentioned showin the map at all times i hope that is a updating map which shows our current location as we move as oppose to set autorun and check the map and the cursor of my location stays put even though i have trekked across the entire map blindly

[Yrusama]

Looks awesome, but it had better be keyboard-friendly. I don't use the mouse at all when I play.

[Alhanelem]

I dont think they are so resistant to providing sources but it did seem like you had a POIDH attitude toward what he was sayin he "thought" he remembered, which felt like a NUH UH! from you. When he posted what he remembered, i also remembered seeing the same thing (and didnt feel i needed proof lol).

I for one cant wait for these changes, and really hope to see them soon. in his first link there the dev/community rep mentioned showin the map at all times i hope that is a updating map which shows our current location as we move as oppose to set autorun and check the map and the cursor of my location stays put even though i have trekked across the entire map blindly
well I totally agree, I can't wait for the new UI, I guess I'm just overly cynical about what will actually come out of it. it's not hard to be a cynic around here these days. ;p


Looks awesome, but it had better be keyboard-friendly. I don't use the mouse at all when I play. Well, nobody uses the mouse, because the mouse input is so convoluted and bad in this game. If it was actually designed well, it would be useful. That's what I'm hoping for here.

A new UI doesn't change the game controls. Your keyboard will do all the same things it did before- but you'll probably need to use the mouse at least once to set up the windows the way you'd like.

[Trumpy]

it kinda sounds like this gui will be similiar to how wow works. ive played wow recently and one thing that really annoyed me was having to use the mouse to select a target then move down to the macro line and back up again sometimes. or to select a menu, i gradually started to learn how the keyboard is set up for things in that game (i mostly never hit the action bar with a mouse except to open a menu cause u can use keys 1 thru =) and it wasnt as much of a problem. so i hope they do fix the mouse use but i am somewhat scared they will make it have alot of moving cursors across the whole screen to do things. I would be very happy if we could use the 3 bar system they spoke of and still use a controller, but we will see.

[Lokithor]

FFXI's user interface features have been very poor since the day it launched. Windower filled that gap quite nicely. If the new UI changes break windower, then that may be the end for many players. Seriously, I wish SE would incorporate windower support in future testing - so much of the player base uses it.

[Alhanelem]

FFXI's user interface features have been very poor since the day it launched. Windower filled that gap quite nicely. If the new UI changes break windower, then that may be the end for many players. Seriously, I wish SE would incorporate windower support in future testing - so much of the player base uses it.
They probably wont break windower (and if they do, probably not for long)- and the old UI will still be available if the new one causes issues for you.

SE is never going to incorporate any kind of 3rd party program into their development- it is just never going to happen, especially considering the hacky nature of windower which hooks into and reads FFXI memory- That won't be useful to SE adding on to or modifying the actual UI.

[Elexia]

You'll have to source this. Never heard anything of the sort. I don't think they'd ever give us alliance TP/MP because it's not fair to the console players.

It's data already fed to the client...for all systems.

[Camiie]

I thought they mentioned that the new UI was going to be more mouse-friendly.

[Alhanelem]

It's data already fed to the client...for all systems.
Dude, that discussion was resolved already. Besides that, I'm well aware the client gets this information. But it's not displayed in the game currently, and I had doubts that they would actually let it be displayed legitimately.


I thought they mentioned that the new UI was going to be more mouse-friendly. Yes, but it will still be keyboard friendly too.

[wildsprite]

they stated they intend to release the scripting language information for the FFXI client so people could make interface mods, somehow I think we will see a whole new slew of interface mods showing all kinds of information when(if) they do

[Alhanelem]

they stated they intend to release the scripting language information for the FFXI client so people could make interface mods, somehow I think we will see a whole new slew of interface mods showing all kinds of information when(if) they do
We won't be able to show information that doesn't exist. Camate kindly provided a list of information the client has and can readily be displayed on the UI if they so choose. This also applies to any interface modes.

[wildsprite]

I'm not referring to information that doesnt exist, I mean for instance your pets HP and TP, you can echo that back to you or show it in a message, I think that should be right there the whole time, it is reported to the client, if your pet has and uses MP that should be shown as well, simple little things like that, I'm not talking about things like widescan for jobs that don't have it, but if its reported to the client you should have the option to see it if you want to

[Alhanelem]

I mean for instance your pets HP and TP, you can echo that back to you or show it in a messageOnly as a percentage. The actual value for HP and MP is only sent to you when you check the automaton's status screen if you are PUP. BST and DRG can not obtain the exact HP/MP values of their pets.

[wildsprite]

that was what I meant, the percentage, SMN doesn't have exact HP/MP values either, but knowing the TP percentage helps quite a lot in the merited bloodpacts and having to constantly echo back the value with a command is a pain