Mythic Weaponskill Skillchain Properties

[Asymptotic]

Mythics are widely regarded as the hardest-to-obtain "ultimate weapons" in FFXI, and yet they boast a glaring weakness when compared to the other "ultimate weapons," largely due to the design of the Mythic Weapon Skills.

While a lot of these weapon skills are weaker than their alternatives, they also fail to have "level 3" skillchain properties similar to Relic and Empyrean weapon skills.

While understandable in the general sense, since all players have access to the Mythic Weapon Skills regardless of weapon, but if it were possible would it be possible to add level 3 skillchain properties to Mythic Weapon Skills when used by someone wielding a Mythic Weapon?

[Kincard]

At this point I would really love any further info on REM adjustments in general. When Lv99/AG was added, they implied they planned on adding further stats/properties onto some (all) of the REM weapons. Whether that is in planning or just completely scrapped, I would really love to know.

[Byrth]

I would also love the proposed adjustment.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Mythics are widely regarded as the hardest-to-obtain "ultimate weapons" in FFXIOnly since teh change to dynamis and mythincs themselves haven't changed at all. It's simply a lack of market, not a dificulty to obtain.

[Byrth]

Only since teh change to dynamis and mythincs themselves haven't changed at all. It's simply a lack of market, not a dificulty to obtain.

This is an interesting claim, so lets examine it:

* Relics cost ~200mil and require Dynamis - Bastok/Sandy/Windy/Jeuno/Beaucedine clears and level 65.

* Mythics cost ~500mil and additionally require that you've obtained level 65, done every assault twice, killed 3 24~??? hour NMs, cleared 4 Salvage zones, collected 150,000 Nyzul Isle tokens, collected 100,000 Ampuoles, beaten Odin, and collected three Tier 4 ZNM trophies.

It appears that the facts indicate mythics are more difficult to obtain than relics, unless getting 5 Dynamis clears is somehow harder than doing all of that ToAU content and is worth an additional 300mil.

[Ophannus]

They probably decided to NOT do this since Mythics in general are already stronger than Relics/Empyreans so this was the 'balance'. If they could continue Lv3 it would make KKK,Ryunohige,Kogarasumaru go from overpowered to ludicrous.

[Kincard]

They probably decided to NOT do this since Mythics in general are already stronger than Relics/Empyreans so this was the 'balance'. If they could continue Lv3 it would make KKK,Ryunohige,Kogarasumaru go from overpowered to ludicrous.

It's all over the place, really. It's actually kinda ridiculous how big the gap the strength between the weapons are. I think Ryunohige is probably the strongest weapon in the game by a really, really large margin. (Stat-wise and how the stats synergize with each other etc) Then you have stuff like Tupsimati and Murgleis that don't seem to serve any real purpose other than look (really frickin') cool. I realize that lots of people argue that Claustrum and such are crappy relics, but they actually serve their purpose in some fashion still (Claustrum still is the the highest D staff despite any arguments to its practicality of use, etc).


Only since teh change to dynamis and mythincs themselves haven't changed at all. It's simply a lack of market, not a dificulty to obtain.

Even back when Alexandrites were priced at 5k or so (So total cost was about equal to relics), Mythics were considered far more difficult because of how much endgame content you had to spam. Beastmen Kings, Odin, Nyzul Isle, 50 assaults, Einherjar, 3 ZNM Kings...definately a lot more to do than a fragment, necropsyche and animated weapon.

[detlef]

An argument can be made that the beastman kings are significantly more difficult to defeat nowadays, for what that's worth.

But yes, I would really appreciate if Drakesbane would have better skillchain properties (while you're down there, remove that pesky attack penalty please).

[ManaKing]

Everyone has at least a Relic or Empy if they have played for any significant amount of time and actually wanted to take the time to make one. Very few, and fewer still since people quit, have Mythics. They are clearly the most time consuming and are the only one of the prestige weapons to require multiple people working together to build, regardless of level (if you aren't paying for multiple accounts or cheating). Furthermore, Mythics make up less than 5% of the total amount of prestige weapons in the game in last year's census. Don't sugar coat Mythics. They are hard to get and more take time compared to almost anything else in the game.

These should be custom tailored weapons that should be balanced around the individual jobs that can use them. They should be the best weapons in the game for every job, especially since they take the most time invested to acquire. There is no reason you shouldn't make each Mythic outlandishly good for each job, since only 1 job can use it. Not necessarily in the form of total damage (even though AM3 generally accomplishes that), but SOMETHING that every job should go, 'well damn, I really want that' See Yagrush for valid example. Some Mythics are kinda close, but others really could use a lot of work considering how much the game has changed.

That being said, their SC properties are fine. Pretty much all Mythics have lvl 2 SC properties that make dark or light if you combine them with the appropriate other lvl 2 SC property. (Not so much on Yagrush, oh noes not the Melee-WHM, SC makes them broken powerful...said no one ever.) At the end of the day Lvl 3 means you have a 50% chance of making a SC on accident and Lvl 2 SC properties drop it to 25% (unless it is double lvl 2 like RDM and BRD mythic WSs). SCs don't really work against a lot of mobs anymore because of higher tier mobs ridiculous magic evasion, -MDT, MDB, or something else that makes SC damage increasingly unreliable. Against most things that you would fight with a small party you can still probably SC things dead, much like I do, and enjoy it. The issue really isn't the Mythic WSs SC properties, and is actually SCs in general becoming more and more antiquated.

The other advantage to lvl 3 SC props is that you just spam the same WS back to back and get SCs. IMHO that is a mildly lazy approach to SCing. You can generally have access to Trial, Mythic, Merit, and a Prestige WS all at the same time. It's just not that hard for most jobs to make Dark and/or Light anymore.

[ManaKing]

It's all over the place, really. It's actually kinda ridiculous how big the gap the strength between the weapons are. I think Ryunohige is probably the strongest weapon in the game by a really, really large margin. (Stat-wise and how the stats synergize with each other etc) Then you have stuff like Tupsimati and Murgleis that don't seem to serve any real purpose other than look (really frickin') cool. I realize that lots of people argue that Claustrum and such are crappy relics, but they actually serve their purpose in some fashion still (Claustrum still is the the highest D staff despite any arguments to its practicality of use, etc).


Claustrum can still Dispel 2Hs so in the right scenerio, it actually is really cool. BUT it's a big stick. And not any kind of exceptional big stick. Just a stick. Is disappointed. I would want something else for either a BLM or a SMN, so I would agree that it's not a very good thing to spend that much time and money on.

Murgleis' Convert Augmentation is very weak compared to something like Yagrush's Augments. The only redeeming quality of Murgleis is that it is the highest DPS 1h Mythic and that Death Blossom is actually a good WS. Not an amazing WS, but a good one. I doubt I would ever be able to pick a mythic over it because I'm a crazy RDM, but I really wish they would put something better on it besides a gorgeously designed sword to make it a higher priority.

[Demon6324236]

Murgleis' Convert Augmentation is very weak compared to something like Yagrush's Augments. The only redeeming quality of Murgleis is that it is the highest DPS 1h Mythic and that Death Blossom is actually a good WS. Not an amazing WS, but a good one. I doubt I would ever be able to pick a mythic over it because I'm a crazy RDM, but I really wish they would put something better on it besides a gorgeously designed sword to make it a higher priority.Well also @99 it has the highest Magic Acc in the game, but thats not saying much right now. Just pointing out it is another advantage to the weapon, dual wielding it with a Magic Acc sword will get you +62 Magic Accuracy.

[Kincard]

If I'm not mistaken Murgleis + Dark Sword would only be 46 macc. Murgleis 99 has 30 macc, unless you want to count the macc AM. That's kind of pathetic when you consider a magian accuracy staff has +35 affinity accuracy.


Death Blossom is actually a good WS. Not an amazing WS, but a good one.

Death Blossom is mediocre. It has a total fTP of 3.125 and 30%STR/50%MND. It's a lot weaker than Requiescat and definately way weaker than CDC. Even Mercy Stroke would probably be better. It's biggest advantage is that it looks really stylish. =P

From a design standpoint the add effect on Death Blossom just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. If you seriously wanted to lower a monster's meva it's probably something really high level, except a RDM isn't meleeing in that situation.

[Demon6324236]

I could have sworn it was 40, eh, oh well, still ends up better than staffs. I thought Mythic was 40 and Magian was 24, shit memory comes to haunt me once again!
Death Blossom is mediocre. It has a total fTP of 3.125 and 30%STR/50%MND. It's a lot weaker than Requiescat and definately way weaker than CDC. Even Mercy Stroke would probably be better.Forgot Knights of Round.

[Asymptotic]

Everyone has at least a Relic or Empy if they have played for any significant amount of time and actually wanted to take the time to make one. Very few, and fewer still since people quit, have Mythics. They are clearly the most time consuming and are the only one of the prestige weapons to require multiple people working together to build, regardless of level (if you aren't paying for multiple accounts or cheating). Furthermore, Mythics make up less than 5% of the total amount of prestige weapons in the game in last year's census. Don't sugar coat Mythics. They are hard to get and more take time compared to almost anything else in the game.

These should be custom tailored weapons that should be balanced around the individual jobs that can use them. They should be the best weapons in the game for every job, especially since they take the most time invested to acquire. There is no reason you shouldn't make each Mythic outlandishly good for each job, since only 1 job can use it. Not necessarily in the form of total damage (even though AM3 generally accomplishes that), but SOMETHING that every job should go, 'well damn, I really want that' See Yagrush for valid example. Some Mythics are kinda close, but others really could use a lot of work considering how much the game has changed.

That being said, their SC properties are fine. Pretty much all Mythics have lvl 2 SC properties that make dark or light if you combine them with the appropriate other lvl 2 SC property. (Not so much on Yagrush, oh noes not the Melee-WHM, SC makes them broken powerful...said no one ever.) At the end of the day Lvl 3 means you have a 50% chance of making a SC on accident and Lvl 2 SC properties drop it to 25% (unless it is double lvl 2 like RDM and BRD mythic WSs). SCs don't really work against a lot of mobs anymore because of higher tier mobs ridiculous magic evasion, -MDT, MDB, or something else that makes SC damage increasingly unreliable. Against most things that you would fight with a small party you can still probably SC things dead, much like I do, and enjoy it. The issue really isn't the Mythic WSs SC properties, and is actually SCs in general becoming more and more antiquated.

The other advantage to lvl 3 SC props is that you just spam the same WS back to back and get SCs. IMHO that is a mildly lazy approach to SCing. You can generally have access to Trial, Mythic, Merit, and a Prestige WS all at the same time. It's just not that hard for most jobs to make Dark and/or Light anymore.


This isn't much of an argument. "They don't need level 3 skillchain properties because you have other ways of making skilchains?" Main-handing a mythic weapon makes it impossible to chain off of someone else's Light or Darkness skillchain, something Empyreans and Relics are both able to do if they so choose (Whether you'd want to because of the strength of the WS is issue for another thread).

Other ultimate weapons have WS attached to LV3 skillchain properties. Level 3 skillchain properties are the only wayto activate Double Light or Double Darkness. If you're wielding a Mythic weapon, you have no way of activating "LV4."

I think after 30,000 Alexandrite and months of ToAU content for a single weapon, access to double skillchains like the other ultimate weapons is a pretty reasonable request.

The relative usefulness of skillchaining is also not relevant to the scope of this thread.

[ManaKing]

Then lets look at everything in a vacuum and all cry when the game gets worse. If you're not going to account for how the game is actually played, then why are you even posting? I'm being honest here,


The relative usefulness of skillchaining is also not relevant to the scope of this thread.

When the title of the thread is, 'Mythic Weaponskill Skillchain Properties' I would think we would care about skillchaining being relevant or else we wouldn't be talking about it.

If you actually have a Mythic, then I really don't have a problem with adding lvl 3 SC properties because then you've done more than enough to say, 'I have nice things and it was worth making them.' And I think that is what everyone wants to be able to say if they put together something like a Mythic. I do think that is a reasonable request. But it's not more important to me than making all of the Mythics actually worth acquiring for all jobs.

That's the issue that should still be the highest priority.

[ManaKing]

Death Blossom is mediocre. It has a total fTP of 3.125 and 30%STR/50%MND. It's a lot weaker than Requiescat and definately way weaker than CDC. Even Mercy Stroke would probably be better. It's biggest advantage is that it looks really stylish. =P


BUT it's a mythic WS. And with a physical mythic WS you can benefit from AM3 multi-hit. Stacked with Temper, your consistency for hitting additional attacks is very high. Don't get me wrong, I would still take buffs to it if I could. But at least it's usable, which isn't always the case for Mythics and Mythic WSs.

[Edyth]

Mythics cost ~500mil and additionally require that you've obtained level 65, done every assault twice, killed 3 24~??? hour NMs, cleared 4 Salvage zones, collected 150,000 Nyzul Isle tokens, collected 100,000 Ampuoles, beaten Odin, and collected three Tier 4 ZNM trophies.


You forgot:
Mythic requires you to be level 75 because you need to unlock your WS by wielding the basic version of the weapon
Beat all 48 Aht Urhgan story missions
Beat all 11 asinine assault rank quests
Beat all 100 floors of Nyzul Isle
Acquire 250+ WS points to unlock mythic WS
Beat the final boss using that weapon skill

[Byrth]

You don't have to unlock the weaponskill to get the mythic, but you do have to get to floor 100, do the assault rank quests, and finish the ToAU storyline.

[Kincard]

You don't have to unlock the weaponskill to get the mythic

I'm guessing even if you could flag the quest without the WS, you probably wouldn't be able to finish because you wouldn't be able to beat Balrahn without the WS.

That'd be one hell of a procrastination job, though.

[Byrth]

You are given access to the WS in the BC regardless whether or not you've unlocked it. Similarly, once you have the weapon you automatically have access to it even if you have never unlocked it.

SE intended for mythic WSs to be tied to mythic weapons like Relic/Empyrean WSs are, but they recognized that:
1) People weren't doing Nyzul Isle as much as they wanted
2) It would be very unpopular to release another set of exclusive WSs when no new WSs had been released in several years

So they decided against it and gave mythic weapons to all the jobs. This is very obvious if you look at Pyrrhic Kleos (three lines per swing, one for each of PK's blades).