PS2 - Real info request.

[Rezeak]

I know there are a million threads saying about ps2 so i'm just wondering if there is any real info PS2 Limitations the only things that have been confirmed by SE as far as i know;

Auto translate limitations.
80 item slot limitations.

: Multiples of 80. With the limits of PS2 memory, and the need for the entire storage list to be in memory at once, we are stuck at the initially planned limit, 80 slots. We think there could be a kind of switch and you could replace slots in the list from outside, but how it would work or be implemented is still in the planning stages.

http://jpbutton.bluegartr.com/?p=1374#more-1374

There is a possibility of Harddrive space but from what i heard is that it was just an error made by SE.

Of course i don't really want to hear about ps2 limiting a retexturing/remodeling of the entire game because of the simple reason SE wouldn't invest that much into such an old game.

What i am interested in is the possibility of new expansions or zones

Either way if anyone has some REAL info on the problems on the PS2 please post with detailed info or a link please.

otherwise do not post there is a million topics just talking about this

Dear dev team if you could shed any light on the current situation that would be great too <3
best info so far

Also another request for pple only to post real info there are topics for and against the PS2 already please use them

[Alkalinehoe]

They should drop PS2 support.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

PS2 Limitations.

Aside from that, I have requested said information from from DEVs and forum MODs alike to no avail sadly. I too would like to know the truth.

[Gwynplaine]

There's a thread I posted about it here:
http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/898-PS2-Limitations-What-are-Rumors-What-is-Truth?highlight=ps2+rumor

[Smoothdome]

They should drop PS2 support.

^^ This. ^^

[Krashport]

I know there are a million threads saying about ps2 so i'm just wondering if there is any real info PS2 Limitations the only things that have been confirmed by SE as far as i know;

Auto translate limitations.
80 item slot limitations.

My opinion, I think SE should give the PC XBOX 360 and PS3 members 1,500+ items slots.
and make everything able to be Auto translated.

This will encourage PS2 members to upgrade no? After all their the one who bought it and still playing on it. Which isn't wrong, If they like their PS2 thats fine.

I still have my old PS2 its packed away somewhere though.

[Lilbitz]

Couldn't have said that any better. Heres a cookie from me ^^ . You ps2 holders can have one to as soon as you throw out that dust collector thats holding us all back :)

[RAIST]

mini-map in corner was shot-down due to ps2 limitations, only other one coming to mind off-hand

likely some requests for the higher resolutions were too (think the PS2 panel only lets you go up to 1024/1024 background or something...

[Coldbrand]

Sorry SE can't reply to this thread due to PS2 limitations.

[Zyeriis]

mini-map in corner was shot-down due to ps2 limitations, only other one coming to mind off-hand

likely some requests for the higher resolutions were too (think the PS2 panel only lets you go up to 1024/1024 background or something...

On this matter, regarding the mini map, I thought it was clarified that it was a coding issue not a ps2 limitation issue. Though I'm sure if it wasn't for the coding issue, it would in fact be ps2 limitations.

[Kaych]

Sorry SE can't reply to this thread due to PS2 limitations.

Lol, yeah SE seems to be evading this threadXD

[Francisco]

I think the first case of PS2 limitations was when people started requesting more character models way back in like 2004.

Currently there are 8 race/gender combinations and 16 faces per race/gender... so 128 different character models.

I'm really not sure if they could go to say... 256 or not... or if they can go to 256, but something like NPCs or Monsters share the same memory line (or w/e it'd be called) with PCs...

[Laraul]

I know there are a million threads saying about ps2 so i'm just wondering if there is any real info PS2 Limitations the only things that have been confirmed by SE as far as i know;

Auto translate limitations.
80 item slot limitations.

Neither of these are limited by the PS2 (despite what SE seems to say...) The auto-translator can hold up to 65336 phrases. It's just the auto translator was "hacked" on. There are 255 categories, and each category holds up to 255 phrases. The problem has more to do with the 255 limit per category issue, which has existed. They've tried using multiple catagories like "Game Terms" and "Game Terms 2." But it's just clunky.

There is no limit on the number of inventory slots.


What i am interested in is the possibility of new expansions or zones

Yes it's possible. But no, it's not going to happen. There are nearly 256 independent areas already. The Abyssea areas do *NOT* share data from existing areas. They are completely independent areas.

The problem is not the PS2. Or the PC. It's the fact that the game is winding down. You can not simply add new areas to bring new people to the game. Also, the development team is down to less than five or six people. They do not have the time nor resources to build huge new areas from scratch. People don't want more itty bitty expansions. It's been only a few months since the last one... what do you want an expansion each week? C'mon...

[Tsukino_Kaji]

The problem is not the PS2. Or the PC. It's the fact that the game is winding down.This is also because they tried to drop FFXI support for FFXIV, And failed of course.

[Laraul]

This is also because they tried to drop FFXI support for FFXIV, And failed of course.

FFXIV is not complete yet... and it's far from being a failure...

[Tsukino_Kaji]

FFXIV is not complete yet... and it's far from being a failure...True, just the crafting mini game they tried to implement and the 6 inch cliffs you can step down off of. But. Since the game is free to play now, there is no to little income to adjust it.

[Coldbrand]

People have to buy retail copies to play what is free to play. They also save money by having it be free to play by having limitless free beta testers.

[Cerelyn]

There is no subscribtion fee so yes its free to play, not to obtain though.

[Satyr]

IMO they should drop PS2 support. Sure they would lose a small number of customers, but come on...some times you just have to accept the fact that it is time to move on and it is a proven fact that the PS2 is holding this game back. In all honesty, if they dropped PS2 support and improved the game to be a game that is meant to run on PC, 360, and possibly even PS3, we would not only have a better game, but SE could possibly attract enough new players to make up for those that they lost from canning the PS2.

Edit: If they discontinued PS2 support they could allow PS2 players to download the game and any expansions that they had active on their account for free so that if they still wanted to play they would not have to buy the game again to play on PC, or 360, or maybe PS3 if they ever added it.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

IMO they should drop PS2 support. Sure they would lose a small number of customers, but come on...some times you just have to accept the fact that it is time to move on and it is a proven fact that the PS2 is holding this game back. In all honesty, if they dropped PS2 support and improved the game to be a game that is meant to run on PC, 360, and possibly even PS3, we would not only have a better game, but SE could possibly attract enough new players to make up for those that they lost from canning the PS2.The new content in all likelyhood would also atract the displaced PS2 players who, after all, will not lose anything ingame in the transition.

[Coldbrand]

This is the true story... of eight strange developers... picked to live in a design studio...work together and have their lives blogged... to find out what happens... when people stop being polite... and start getting real (systems that aren't 11 years old and have more memory than most modern cellphones)...The Real PS2 Thread.

[Neofire]

The new content in all likelyhood would also atract the displaced PS2 players who, after all, will not lose anything ingame in the transition.Can i borrow that time machine so i see what you claim to know will happen? lol


All i see is the same set of cry babies on this forum posting the same topic over and over again.

[Gwynplaine]

Say something new or don't say anything at all.

[Legomike]

im pretty sure the game will not instantly improve and thousands of new customers will join just by dropping PS2

[Zyeriis]

im pretty sure the game will not instantly improve and thousands of new customers will join just by dropping PS2
Instantaneously? Probability: none. It still wouldn't take 11 years, the amount of time the game has been held back.

[Odintius]

I want to hear it from the horse's mouth specifics on ps2 limiation not rumors :P

[Alhanelem]

The PS2 has one simple main limitation: Memory. The PS2 has very, very little memory compared to even PCs around at the time of its release.

The PS2 doesn't need to have lots of support software running, so normally it doesn't need all that much memory. A console is designed with just enough of the resources they think the developers of games will need during its lifetime. Unfortunately, some people end up needing more than that and thus have to find more difficult and complicated ways to work around problems.

The second limitaiton is disk space. SE was mostly prepared for this, that is why so many newer areas are clones of older ones.

This is not a rumor. This is a simple fact of the extremely old hardware.

[Gwynplaine]

The second limitaiton is disk space. SE was mostly prepared for this, that is why so many newer areas are clones of older ones.


Reskins of old graphics do not work that way. Reskinning old content does not save disc space. It saves the staff time in creating something brand new. That's all.

[Byrth]

Well, so, PS2 has 32MB of RAM for the main CPU and 4MB of video RAM. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PlayStation_2

Still, the recent memory issues SE has had are related to harddrive space though. Currently FFXI only uses up (I think?) either 4 or 8GB of space on the hard drive.

[Vyvian]

Wasn't the PS2 hard drive a 20 or a 40? What are they doing with the rest of the space?

[Mirage]

The amount of HDD space they can use is allocated by Sony. Considering how good friends SE and Sony are, they could probably get the storage limit increased.

The amount of available RAM is the limitation what's showing the most.

While this would be speculation, I also think that the PS2 limitations also consume a fai amount of man hours during the development process. I can't imagine it being as easy to add new features to a console with 99.999% of its RAM already used up, as it would be to add new features to a system that has several hundred MB free RAM (Practically every PC running the game, as well as the XB360).

[JagerForrester]

Can i borrow that time machine so i see what you claim to know what will happen? lol
It's a guess. I said the same thing to you in another thread. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/679-For-those-of-us-who-still-support-the-PS2-version-of-FFXI?p=31123&viewfull=1#post31123)

SE would gain money by selling an expansion to the customers and a little extra money from those players willing to switch platforms and still play FFXI. This would be incentive enough to drop the PS2 if this plan went into motion.

But there was one thing you did not fight me on, and I found out this is good argument against dropping the PS2. How much do you think it will actually cost to change the programming and erasing all the data to remove any kind of support for the PS2? My friend pointed out that it would be "very" costly. He gave me rough numbers, but it was a strong point why SE didn't decide to drop the PS2 for FFXI but instead go with a new MMO. To be blunt, they would not make a profit in a year's time.

[Alhanelem]

Reskins of old graphics do not work that way. Reskinning old content does not save disc space.Absolutely 100% wrong.

Reusing (important: reusing, not reskinning- most duplicate areas are not "reskinned, not entirely anyway) old content DOES save disk space. It's not about laziness. The same textures can be used more than once, thus you don't need as much additional texture data taking up disk space. The Dynamis areas use almost no new textures at all on the areas (Only the skybox is different, and the addition of the objects blocking the zone exits) The WotG areas recycle a lot of the textures from the original area, even though there are some significant changes in some places. This does require less disk space than if the areas were totally new.

As for how much disk space FFXI and POL are allocated, in Japan there is more software that uses the PS2 hard drive. Thus the amount of disk space allocated is limited so that there is enough space for everything.

It's possible SE might be able to change the allocation of space, but that would require every PS2 and Xbox user to reinstall the game, most likely. And that is a potential serious problem for some PS2 users who have PS2s that cant read discs.

[Zyeriis]

It's a guess. I said the same thing to you in another thread. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/679-For-those-of-us-who-still-support-the-PS2-version-of-FFXI?p=31123&viewfull=1#post31123)

SE would gain money by selling an expansion to the customers and a little extra money from those players willing to switch platforms and still play FFXI. This would be incentive enough to drop the PS2 if this plan went into motion.

But there was one thing you did not fight me on, and I found out this is good argument against dropping the PS2. How much do you think it will actually cost to change the programming and erasing all the data to remove any kind of support for the PS2? My friend pointed out that it would be "very" costly. He gave me rough numbers, but it was a strong point why SE didn't decide to drop the PS2 for FFXI but instead go with a new MMO. To be blunt, they would not make a profit in a year's time.

Well considering how that other MMO is going, they probably should've just dropped ps2 support for this.

[JagerForrester]

Well considering how that other MMO is going, they probably should've just dropped ps2 support for this.

It would still cost the money. I think that's why the easy button has been hit for FFXI. All this new recent content has sped up leveling, and it attracted new players. I think that is SE's plan to make up for lost profits. They'll use this money to keep their employees working on fixing FFXIV. Then if they are willing and FFXI still has a profitable gain to it, they will get rid of the limitations.

[Detoxy]

I know there are a million threads saying about ps2 so i'm just wondering if there is any real info PS2 Limitations the only things that have been confirmed by SE as far as i know;

Auto translate limitations.
80 item slot limitations.


http://jpbutton.bluegartr.com/?p=1374#more-1374

There is a possibility of Harddrive space but from what i heard is that it was just an error made by SE.

Of course i don't really want to hear about ps2 limiting a retexturing/remodeling of the entire game because of the simple reason SE wouldn't invest that much into such an old game.

What i am interested in is the possibility of new expansions or zones

Either way if anyone has some REAL info on the problems on the PS2 please post with detailed info or a link please.

otherwise do not post there is a million topics just talking about this

Dear dev team if you could shed any light on the current situation that would be great too <3
best info so far

Also another request for pple only to post real info there are topics for and against the PS2 already please use them
Ps2 support needs to go away so FF11 can get a RLLY GOOD UPDATE

[Nattack]

The amount of HDD space they can use is allocated by Sony. Considering how good friends SE and Sony are, they could probably get the storage limit increased.
highly unlikely, its most likely a hardware limitation with the ps2 itself. perhaps on account of the file system it uses, which while i dont know what that is exactly, it doesnt appear to be any usual file system, windows and im pretty sure *nix cannot read ps2 formatted hdds. though id love to get ahold of that ps2 linux distro and fiddle about with it.

so, while it is possible for the ps2 to read more, most likely, it is unlikelt the update would ever reach the ps2 users, how many ps2 users still have their networj install or hdd install cd?

[Joslyn]

I still have mine from when I bought the hdd, I also still have the network cd from both the old style adapter and a friend gave me a newer version.... Ok so i hold on to stuff for a while...I still have the older version Resident evil, ya know the one in the BIG ass box that sony released when it first came out

[Nattack]

sony released resident evil? here i thought it was capcom

[Odintius]

I just like to no the yea/nay on this subject I can respect all the different points of view's on ps2 but I'd like to know this simple question. Would you support the idea to discontinue the ps2 to make room for improvement and adjustment? Leave all bias remarks aside including my own yes or no?

/yes

[Nattack]

if microsoft can cut support from two of their most successful operating systems... you can get one for free! seriously, there are cd keys on any oem computer, pick one. buy a walmart shovelledcomputer. play games that were made past 1999. web browsers need more cpu than ffxi these days.

[JagerForrester]

Would you support the idea to discontinue the ps2 to make room for improvement and adjustment? Leave all bias remarks aside including my own yes or no?

/yes, I support the "idea"
But the actual "motion" to the discontinuation? It's going to be expensive, and I feel the money they make when PS2 players switch is not enough to cover the costs.

[Odintius]

/yes, I support the "idea"
But the actual "motion" to the discontinuation? It's going to be expensive, and I feel the money they make when PS2 players switch is not enough to cover the costs.

Thank you an honest point at least you answer yes or no ^^

[Legomike]

yes if they made a PS3 version

[Laraul]

*sigh* PC users grow up... stop using the PS2 as a scape goat. FFXI is a PS2 game... ported to the PC and 360. It still is a PS2 game. That's always going to be the way it is. People have been using the "PS2 limitations" argument since at least 2006.

I'd be very interested to know what major things the PS2 version lacks that the PC version has...

[Legomike]

cant turn off weather effects idk if id call it major though

[Nattack]

*sigh* PC users grow up... stop using the PS2 as a scape goat. FFXI is a PS2 game... ported to the PC and 360. It still is a PS2 game. That's always going to be the way it is. People have been using the "PS2 limitations" argument since at least 2006.

I'd be very interested to know what major things the PS2 version lacks that the PC version has...

ram, disk space, cpu, adjustable resolution, a kampfy chair, alt tab ffxiclpedia, copyable userdata, model modding, that very useful program whch shall not be named.

emphasis on disk space, if you werent around in the last few months.

[Nattack]

also a large portion of ps2s are set to die, i in paricular had to buy a new one to install toau when it came out, in retrospect i could have bought a new computer

[Odintius]

*sigh* PC users grow up... stop using the PS2 as a scape goat. FFXI is a PS2 game... ported to the PC and 360. It still is a PS2 game. That's always going to be the way it is. People have been using the "PS2 limitations" argument since at least 2006.

I'd be very interested to know what major things the PS2 version lacks that the PC version has...

I'll be as nice as possible so it won't be to harsh it's not what ps2 lacks v/s pc it what ps2 is in the way of progression as an mmo to evolve. It's not even this game you will hear it from game designer's what ps3 offer them what they could do v/s something that they couldn't on ps2.

[Nattack]

im going to add that i recall editing macros on ps2 was beyond annoying, it was also slow to switch macro sets, if thingsgot busy. that would be a nono on my blm which is always switching.

[Joslyn]

sony released resident evil? here i thought it was capcom

lol,they may not have made the game but I'm pretty sure they designed those boxes

[JagerForrester]

Tosses bread.
Okay, I'll feed you this time. But just this once.

I was a PS2 player. "I" grew up and moved to the PC. The PS2 limitation argument made me do it. The "PS2 version of FFXI" lacks nothing. It's the same as the other versions. It's the PS2 itself that lacks the space to expand the game as a whole. I guess because for that, a lot of players react out in frustration/anger towards PS2 supporters.

[Nattack]

Sony did the box art for a Capcom game?

[Tsukino_Kaji]

im pretty sure the game will not instantly improve and thousands of new customers will join just by dropping PS2Like how people talk like dropping the PS2 means losing every single person that play on it when in fact a large portion of them would simply convert at that time. With more following later. Nothing is instant by all means, it will take time, there will be troubles. Very few of this minority would quit all together and it would benefit the community as a whole in the long run. We shouldn't leave ourselves chained to the past.

[Joslyn]

lol, no they just came up with the idea of the boxes being that size instead of just doing cd cases like music cd's

[Nattack]

what in the world is a music CD...

[Alhanelem]

*sigh* PC users grow up... stop using the PS2 as a scape goat.we aren't using it as a scapegoat. It's a simple fact that the PS2's hardware limits the game's ability to expand, grow and change. That doesn't mean the PS2 is or was bad, it's just a fact of life. Computers have gotten better while the PS2 has stayed the same. The PS2 is not upgradable, and that puts a limit on the life of an evolving game like FFXI on that platform.

[Odintius]

Tosses bread.
Okay, I'll feed you this time. But just this once.

I was a PS2 player. "I" grew up and moved to the PC. The PS2 limitation argument made me do it. The "PS2 version of FFXI" lacks nothing. It's the same as the other versions. It's the PS2 itself that lacks the space to expand the game as a whole. I guess because for that, a lot of players react out in anger towards PS2 supporters.

Wouldn't say angry more frustrated that people don't seem to get it! :P

[Cupofnoodles]

it be nice if we could change the hard drives out with a bigger hard drive

[Tsukino_Kaji]

it be nice if we could change the hard drives out with a bigger hard driveYou can. But you would need one of those ever allusive fomat disks.

[CrystalWeapon]

it be nice if we could change the hard drives out with a bigger hard drive

It's more than just the HDD, the ram on the ps2 is laughable by today's standards.

[Cupofnoodles]

wow i thought it was just a ROM issue that the ps2 owners were having

[Nattack]

you dont, acshully, there is another way. but you dont even need it.

unless you wanna be awesome. it let me play mgs3.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

It's more than just the HDD, the ram on the ps2 is laughable by today's standards.It was laughable to it's day's standards too.

[Cupofnoodles]

PS2 Specs from wiki

Manufacturer Sony Computer Entertainment
Product family PlayStation
Type Video game console
Generation Sixth generation
Retail availability
Availability by region[show]
Units sold 150 million (as of January 31, 2011)[1][2]
Media DVD, CD
CPU 64-bit[3][4] "Emotion Engine" clocked at 294.912 MHz (launch), 299 MHz (newer models)
Storage capacity
PlayStation 2 memory card (8 MB officially supported)
PlayStation memory card (1 MB)
40 GB Hard Drive (add-on)
Graphics "Graphics Synthesizer" clocked at 147.456 MHz
Controller input DualShock 2
Connectivity 100 Mbit Ethernet/modem (requires adapter on SCPH-10000-50000 models), 2 × USB 1.1, 1 × IEEE 1394 interface

[bungiefan]

It's possible SE might be able to change the allocation of space, but that would require every PS2 and Xbox user to reinstall the game, most likely. And that is a potential serious problem for some PS2 users who have PS2s that cant read discs.

Reinstallation wasn't required when they expanded the FFXI partition from 5 GB to 8 GB when Zilart was released in Japan. When you ran the Zilart disc, the partition was expanded after the install completed.

[Cupofnoodles]

whats funny is im looking at ps3's specs and it says 256 mb video memory and 256 mb of ram WTF why can we have a console with today's standards....

[bungiefan]

You can. But you would need one of those ever allusive fomat disks.

HDD Utility Disc and PSBBN won't format a non-Sony HDD. They scan for Sony's custom HDD firmware, and any drive that doesn't have it is not detected by the HDD support. Only the 40 GB hard drives from Sony have the required firmware. No other size is available.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

HDD Utility Disc and PSBBN won't format a non-Sony HDD. They scan for Sony's custom HDD firmware, and any drive that doesn't have it is not detected by the HDD support. Only the 40 GB hard drives from Sony have the required firmware. No other size is available.I know someone who has a PS2 with a 120g HDD. It's the ugliest thing you'll ever look at. lol

[Cupofnoodles]

HDD Utility Disc and PSBBN won't format a non-Sony HDD. They scan for Sony's custom HDD firmware, and any drive that doesn't have it is not detected by the HDD support. Only the 40 GB hard drives from Sony have the required firmware. No other size is available.

Im pretty sure if you dig enough into the internet you could find the firmware, i just looked for it about 2 minutes and found traces of it, if i find anything i'll post it.

[annewandering]

Truth is ps2 did update. Its called a ps3.
I am not sure why new material not usable by ps2 would mean changing all the basic codes of the game. It is obvious that some of the new material in the game is already not easily, if at all, usable by ps2. Well its obvious if you play on ps2 or play with people who do.
There are things and areas that they just cant do. It wouldnt be much of a stretch to not make new material available to ps2 and not even pretend it is. They can still play the game but its time to start budgeting for new game device. (very hard to say since my best friend on game plays on ps2)

[Joslyn]

Wouldn't say angry more frustrated that people don't seem to get it! :P

I'm reserving my verdict till SE actually says they are coming out with a said new expansion, It would also be real easy for them to convert the code over to ps3.. Look at some of the other companies that have made ps2 games available to download, this whole thing saying they can't is a load it's really them wanting everyone jumping to the new MMO without thinking about the back lash it'll do to the players that have been playing for the last 8 years, If they would have allowed players to transfer there characters or atleast give something to those that are transferring from one game to another then It would have been worth it but since FFXIV still feels like they just wanted to make a game to compete with WoW( which since Cataclysm was been released alot of the more Hardcore players have left) it has left a very bad taste in alot of dedicated FF fans, me being one of them.

Would I love to see a ps3 version of FFXI? yes. Will it happen? Probably never

[InfamousDS]

Word of Interest:

I made a VM with better specs then a PS2. I now have a computer inside my 4 yr old Vista (no hardware upgrades) with XP on it that runs FF better than my Vista. VMWare isn't new, it isn't hard to use, no need to buy a Windows 7 CPU except as a host unit for the VM. And you can get perfectly acceptable ones for the same price of most consoles.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I'm reserving my verdict till SE actually says they are coming out with a said new expansion, It would also be real easy for them to convert the code over to ps3.. It would be easier for sony to release a fimwear update.

[Cupofnoodles]

I'm reserving my verdict till SE actually says they are coming out with a said new expansion, It would also be real easy for them to convert the code over to ps3.. Look at some of the other companies that have made ps2 games available to download, this whole thing saying they can't is a load it's really them wanting everyone jumping to the new MMO without thinking about the back lash it'll do to the players that have been playing for the last 8 years, If they would have allowed players to transfer there characters or atleast give something to those that are transferring from one game to another then It would have been worth it but since FFXIV still feels like they just wanted to make a game to compete with WoW( which since Cataclysm was been released alot of the more Hardcore players have left) it has left a very bad taste in alot of dedicated FF fans, me being one of them.

Would I love to see a ps3 version of FFXI? yes. Will it happen? Probably never

i suggested some days ago that they put it on the Playstation Store and slap a 5 to 7 dollar price tag on it.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

i suggested some days ago that they put it on the Playstation Store and slap a 5 to 7 dollar price tag on it.It would be the $10 ultimate collection price.

[Mirage]

But again, the problem is that it cannot run natively on a PS3. It would need some work done to it for that to work

[Tsukino_Kaji]

But again, the problem is that it cannot run natively on a PS3. It would need some work done to it for that to workIt's because SE and Sony wont kiss and make up.

[Alhanelem]

Truth is ps2 did update. Its called a ps3. That's not an upgrade or update. That's a new device.

And current model PS3s are not backwards compatable (The backwards compatability was done by literally building the ps2 into it- the Ps2 processor and such- it's not emulated or performed by the PS3 hardware; They eliminated the PS2 hardware to cut costs and lower the price of the PS3)

[Byrth]

When people talk about dropping PS2 support, typically people cite figures that JPs have a lot more PS2-onry players than we do. However, after the update a few times ago that messed up a bunch of PS2 installs (and considering that many big box PS2s no longer read disks), I wonder how many PS2 users are really left subscribing.

I have to imagine that the software is currently optimized for the PS2, which is why it's such a horrendous CPU hog on PCs. If we lost PS2 support, perhaps its PC load would be more what we'd expect from a game that's approaching a decade old.

Cost/benefit, I know, but I really wonder if it's worth it for SE to continue dumping money into the failure that is FFXIV when they could just drop PS2 support and massively upgrade FFXI.

[Nattack]

sony's cryptofail and jacking linux support means they deserve every little bad thing that happens to them.

[Joslyn]

When people talk about dropping PS2 support, typically people cite figures that JPs have a lot more PS2-onry players than we do. However, after the update a few times ago that messed up a bunch of PS2 installs (and considering that many big box PS2s no longer read disks), I wonder how many PS2 users are really left subscribing.

I have to imagine that the software is currently optimized for the PS2, which is why it's such a horrendous CPU hog on PCs. If we lost PS2 support, perhaps its PC load would be more what we'd expect from a game that's approaching a decade old.

Cost/benefit, I know, but I really wonder if it's worth it for SE to continue dumping money into the failure that is FFXIV when they could just drop PS2 support and massively upgrade FFXI.


I have a better Idea just give everyone what they want and Make FFXIV into FFXI-2, give the jobs back, the quests and missions are like they should be, open up the AH, remove the lvling limitation, make it so I can just pay like I am for FFXI no stupid monthly time buying...And while there at it let those that still play FFXI be able to transfer there account info over so I dont have to start a new one

[Mirage]

Backwards compatibility with PS2 wouldn't help anyway, because the PS2 would be emulating the PS2 version of the game, with the same limitations as the game has got on PS2.

[JagerForrester]

Cost/benefit, I know, but I really wonder if it's worth it for SE to continue dumping money into the failure that is FFXIV when they could just drop PS2 support and massively upgrade FFXI.

FFXIV was their original plan to answer FFXI's growing PS2 problem. I remember reading that they didn't expect FFXI to live this long. So maybe they still believe FFXI isn't going to last even if they drop PS2 support. Or maybe their sole focus is to get FFXIV running successfully and let FFXI kill itself slowly... that didn't sound right.

[Nattack]

and then ff14... hurhur, oh how the tables turn.

[InfamousDS]

Backwards compatibility with PS2 wouldn't help anyway, because the PS2 would be emulating the PS2 version of the game, with the same limitations as the game has got on PS2.

VMs (Virtual Machines) use a host system to emulate an OS. They bear all the specs of host specifically tailored by the user to meet their demands and the demands of the OS. Therefore, an emulated system is bound by the host and not restricted by itself. As a result, PS3 could have a VM (or Cloud for you Microsoft Fans) that replicates the OS of the PS2, allowing all PS2 compatibility using the physical hardware of the PS3. I do it all the time to play old PC games, and run FF through my XP VM because it runs smoother.

[Satyr]

*sigh* PC users grow up... stop using the PS2 as a scape goat. FFXI is a PS2 game... ported to the PC and 360. It still is a PS2 game. That's always going to be the way it is. People have been using the "PS2 limitations" argument since at least 2006.

I'd be very interested to know what major things the PS2 version lacks that the PC version has...

...oh how about the fact that FFXI looks absolutely gorgeous when you crank up the graphics on PC. Have you ever seen FFXI on full graphics on a large widescreen monitor? It is amazing how good it can look compared to what is considered "current" mmos. FFXI always looks terrible on PS2, whether you are running it through a 13in kitchen TV or a 55in 1080p LDC HDTV.

With that said if you look at FFXI said by side with other MMOs, the others will look significantly better. I doubt that anyone would argue that FFXI looks better than the current incarnation(lol their next expansion is called incarna) of EVE online. But lets look at EVE online for example, and to a lesser extent WOW. If you compare screenshots from EVE when it was launched to screenshots taken now, it has had some massive graphics upgrades. So much so that EVE now would be very difficult to run on a computer that could have ran it when it was released. Wow is another example to a lesser extent. While it does not look like it to someone who has never played WOW, the system requirements and the load on the graphics card has increased significantly between vanilla WOW and it's current expansion, even if you run the game on it's lowest settings.

When I used to play WOW, the computer that I had when the game launched had no problems running the game. But by the time the second expansion rolled around (WotLK), I had trouble running it even on the lowest graphics settings. I remedied this by saving up for a bit and dropping 600 bucks at newegg to get the parts to build my own PC. In the end I was able to run 3 instances of WOW at the same time, all on ultra graphics settings with no noticeable graphics lag at all.

The point here is that I wanted to play WOW enough so that I was willing to adapt, and I did, and it was one of the best things I have ever spent money on because now i have a PC that is 2 years old that still has no problems running current games on the highest graphics settings and if the issue ever arises where I cannot do so I can just get a new graphics card and I am set, no need to buy a completely new machine. And believe it or not, when you aren't playing FFXI....*whispers* a computer is still useful...unlike a PS2 (360 has netflix lol). And in the case of the players from the other games...neither EVE nor WOW lost customers despite basically forcing people to upgrade. In fact both companies gained customers overall.

[Mirage]

VMs (Virtual Machines) use a host system to emulate an OS. They bear all the specs of host specifically tailored by the user to meet their demands and the demands of the OS. Therefore, an emulated system is bound by the host and not restricted by itself. As a result, PS3 could have a VM (or Cloud for you Microsoft Fans) that replicates the OS of the PS2, allowing all PS2 compatibility using the physical hardware of the PS3. I do it all the time to play old PC games, and run FF through my XP VM because it runs smoother.

I don't think Sony is able to make a VM that can run PS2 games on PS3 anyway. They used PS2 hardware in the PS3s earlier to make it work, and dropped support completely when they stopped using those.

Anyway, my point is that it's not something S-E can do alone without porting the game to run on PS3 natively, like they did with the xb360 version.

[Satyr]

Another thing...people are talking about how this game is so old and that SE should be focusing on newer things and that it is not worth it for them drop PS2 support because it is so old. EVE is older than FFXI and it still continues to get new players and is in no danger of going away any time soon. It is in SE's best interest to update the game for modern times. This game is dying not because of how old it is, but because it is stuck in 2003 (mostly due to the PS2).

[Nattack]

indeed, i was hoping - although realistically knew otherwise - that rapture was going to be a revamped ffxi engine.

[CrystalWeapon]

FFXIV was their original plan to answer FFXI's growing PS2 problem. I remember reading that they didn't expect FFXI to live this long. So maybe they still believe FFXI isn't going to last even if they drop PS2 support. Or maybe their sole focus is to get FFXIV running successfully and let FFXI kill itself slowly... that didn't sound right.

I don't think it's in their plans to let xi die if they can help it. When XIV is well enough to stand on it's own it's monthly fee will be very similar to XI, unless of course they change the amount it was originally set at. ($12.99) For a basic single account with one character. $3.00 per mule.
http://lodestone.finalfantasyxiv.com/pl/envi/envi04.html

XI's being at $12.95. $1.00 per mule.
http://www.playonline.com/ff11eu/envi/charge.html

It would be kinda foolish to try to kill off XI or even force a move to XIV since you would risk losing players for hardly any gain per month in subscription fees between the two. I think what they really want to do is to get players on both games if they can. As far as not getting much feedback on the ps2 topic, dispite it being a really heated debate back and forth on several different threads, tells me that they are either:

1) Thinking about it. Trying to nudge players to switch by not offering the ps2 disks off their site and a general lack of hardware support.
2) Not mentioning that they absolutely will not drop the ps2, because in doing so this would discourage alot of players who are hoping for some major changes in the way of new content.

We'll just have to wait and see what happens when XIV is fixed enough for them to start charging. I'm hoping they don't let XI die due to becoming stale.

[JagerForrester]

We'll just have to wait and see what happens when XIV is fixed enough for them to start charging. I'm hoping they don't let XI die due to becoming stale.

I fully agree. SE has always been secretive in what they are planning. Waiting and hoping for things to be fixed is the best solution as of right now for us as players. I'm happy there's someone out there I don't need to debate my strong points to.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

I fully agree. SE has always been secretive in what they are planning. Waiting and hoping for things to be fixed is the best solution as of right now for us as players. I'm happy there's someone out there I don't need to debate my strong points to.They're not making promises that they can't back up in layman's terms.

[Harpalina]

lol there's always going to be debates no matter what thread you go in to...

[JagerForrester]

lol there's always going to be debates no matter what thread you go in to...

Yeah, but at least CrystalWeapon isn't one of those people who are on the other side of the bench. He and I are on the same page. Made my day today.

[Lloydofpudding]

Honestly ps2 is such a dinosaur in terms of gaming consules. People that refuse to use newer systems should be left in the dust. FFXI runs smooth on my old computer that can't run newer games just fine. If the whole option of needing a controller to play, you can turn old controllers into pc controllers. Honestly if you can't afford a half way decent pc or a xbox 360 then maybe you should get a job and do an upgrade.