Walk of Echoes Weapon Adjustments [Archive]

Rukkirii

12-20-2012, 07:44 AM

Greetings!

Below is a message from Producer Matsui in regards to adjustments to Walk of Echoes weapons.

Hello,

Since the implementation of the bonus walks to Walk of Echoes is taking longer than anticipated, I spoke to the lead developer in regards to making weapons that call for items from Walk of Echoes easier to create.

We have 2 main ideas we are looking at.

Remove the EX attribute from the coins
Add pouches that allow users to pull out multiple Devious Die and Liminal Residues

Although this may make this content too easy, we are looking into adjusting the difficulty of creating these weapons so that it is easier than finishing Empyrean weapons.

Mirage

12-20-2012, 07:52 AM

I would say the availability of dies and residues is by far the biggest issue.

If we have to choose between the two ideas, I would go for increasing die/residue supply. However, I would also welcome both of the two ideas.

Implementing these two changes you mentioned would very likely bring me back to make a few more weapons for some of the jobs that aren't at the very top of my priority list, and therefore also make me play the game more in general.

If you are worried about players completing their WoE weapons too fast, and be left with nothing more to do in WoE, you could always just add another stage to the weapons. WoEweapon lv99-2, like with the empys and stuff. Give the weapons some significant stats, but not something that would make them stronger than the real lv99 empy.

For example, the WoE great katana could get a tiny bit of store TP, the WoE greataxe could get a tiny bit of double attack, the WoE dagger could get a tiny bit of triple attack or crit rate/damage, and so on.

Economizer

12-20-2012, 08:04 AM

Below is a message from Producer Matsui in regards to adjustments to Walk of Echoes weapons.

The coin suggestion is a no brainer to me - if they could be bought or traded, friends could work together to make several types of weapons, or you could buy them in WoE bazaars in much the same way as Dies and Residue.

My only worry would be pouches making prices on the items dropping for people farming WoE for gil (those of us lucky enough to be on at the times JP players make it possible to play WoE), but considering this also makes the price for Gimpyrean weapons higher and thus less worthy, I'd think this is probably the only solution... unless you want to buff the level 99 Gimpyrean weapons to have Aftermath (or a gimpy version that is Occ. deals 1.5x damage if double damage aftermath is too much) then people farming in WoE will have to take a backseat to the Gimpyreans.

Basically, the effort/reward ratio for Gimpyreans could also be fixed by giving the level 99 versions aftermath - they'd still be weaker then Empyreans by a sizable margin, but getting one wouldn't be a waste of time compared to making a 85 or 90 Empyrean, which are easier. But if you make Residue and Dies easier to get, this should be offset for farmers as long as coins are now bazaarable.

Babekeke

12-20-2012, 08:31 AM

Currently the damage of a 99 WoE weapon sits between the lvl 90 and 95 Empys, but with much higher delay, no aftermath and no added stats., making a 90 empy slightly less damage, but overall, higher DPS.

The thing is, a 90 empy if bought completely, costs ~100k per dropped item so (50 x 100) + (50 x 100) + (75 x 100) = 17.5 mil.
Whereas the liminule residues and devious dies cost the same ~100k each, making them (100 x 100) + (100 x 100) = 20 mil.

Bumping up the supply will drop the prices, making them worth making. Currently, it's generally faster and cheaper to make a lvl 90 empy. Even the lvl 85s would actually out-do them on DPS without taking the aftermath or added stats into consideration, and that is priced around 10 mil. Half that of a 99 WoE weapon.

Caliana

12-20-2012, 08:53 AM

To be honest, I'm not sure why the path for the WoE weapons are even the same to start with as a regular empy. At one time I actually considered making a couple for the less used jobs, but even then you have already done most of the leg work into getting the better weapon and now that most of them can be easily duo/trio made it seem a bit off.

Kincard

12-20-2012, 04:42 PM

Demon6324236

12-20-2012, 05:03 PM

1. Improve Empyrean WSMay want to be more specific, some are already more than good enough, others are terrible and were not worth using before Merit WSs, let alone after.

Calintzpso

12-20-2012, 05:10 PM

Yes! a 100 times yes!

I have a two lesser weapons I wanted to make to mess around with but not devoted to fighting Bukhis 100 more times after completing my Bow!

My main has the coins for the Axe and Club I want, but my Alt is the one that would use the weapons more often to have some fun/decent damage with.

Removing the EX trait would make things so much better. I approve of both Ideas, but at the stage of barely anyone on in Walk of Echoes when I play, this would help me greatly.

Since your handing out Conquest/Allied points like its pennies now(Tablets/Waypoint quests/Campaign Caps increased). You should consider also offering a bonus reward for people continuing to do Walk of Echoes Content, like maybe the above or a good chunk of crour similar to that of Voidwatch amounts or kinetic points based on EXP gained. Some random reward that is always relevant to the constantly changes of endgame content that is coming and going. This would make it viable for anyone to still do no matter what the current endgame point system is.

Kincard

12-20-2012, 06:55 PM

May want to be more specific, some are already more than good enough, others are terrible and were not worth using before Merit WSs, let alone after.

Honestly, as good as the best Empyrean WSs are even those pretty much all just break even with their Merit counterparts. The ONLY exception to this is Chant du Cygne, which consistently outdoes Requiescat but the latter will still have uses in special situations regardless.

The second place would be the following:
Shijin very slightly beats Smite.
Hi is equal to slightly better than Shun, but honestly both weapon skills need a boost.
Fudo is better than Shoha only if you are ratio capped.

Every single other one is either worse (lolCloudsplitter) or serve different purposes (Ex. Last Stand VS Wildfire, Rudra's VS Exenterator, etc).

I assume your biggest concern in this case would be how it would affect the balance of Relics VS Empyreans. Of the ones I listed above where the WSs are in close direct competition for the same function (H2H, Katana, GKT), Spharai outdoes Verethragna by a slight bit (Though it's more flexible defensively and it doesn't rely on AM) and both Katana WSs need a boost anyway.

There are other strong ones like Ukonvasara but unless they go really overboard Upheaval and Resolution will still destroy Ukko's Fury when you have Mighty Strikes up.

I think the bottom line is that out of all these, pretty much the only big unbalanced change is that Masamune would get an even bigger lead over Amano if you boosted all the Empyrean WSs.

HimuraKenshyn

12-20-2012, 11:02 PM

Please dump the ex on coins and thank you very much!!!!!!

Spiritreaver

12-21-2012, 03:04 AM

Honestly, as good as the best Empyrean WSs are even those pretty much all just break even with their Merit counterparts. The ONLY exception to this is Chant du Cygne, which consistently outdoes Requiescat but the latter will still have uses in special situations regardless.

The second place would be the following:
Shijin very slightly beats Smite.
Hi is equal to slightly better than Shun, but honestly both weapon skills need a boost.
Fudo is better than Shoha only if you are ratio capped.

Every single other one is either worse (lolCloudsplitter) or serve different purposes (Ex. Last Stand VS Wildfire, Rudra's VS Exenterator, etc).

I assume your biggest concern in this case would be how it would affect the balance of Relics VS Empyreans. Of the ones I listed above where the WSs are in close direct competition for the same function (H2H, Katana, GKT), Spharai outdoes Verethragna by a slight bit (Though it's more flexible defensively and it doesn't rely on AM) and both Katana WSs need a boost anyway.

There are other strong ones like Ukonvasara but unless they go really overboard Upheaval and Resolution will still destroy Ukko's Fury when you have Mighty Strikes up.

I think the bottom line is that out of all these, pretty much the only big unbalanced change is that Masamune would get an even bigger lead over Amano if you boosted all the Empyrean WSs.

Agree with some of what you said, just wanted to add:

* Unless you are gearing horribly for it, Victory Smite should be slightly AHEAD of Shijin Spiral. And that's on PUP. On MNK with higher base skill and Impetus, VS is firmly the better WS.

* You flat forgot Jishnu's Radiance(most ppl seem to want to ignore it too, so its not just you). Whether you have WoE or full Empy, that WS completely outclasses its merit counterpart.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As to the sentiment that overall, WoE weapons need 'something' to make people want to build them, i have a neat idea i have been thinking about a while.

How about giving WoE weapons a hidden effect where they enhance the set bonus on Empy +2 sets once the Empy WS is unlocked?

Nothing crazy, but say boost the activation to 12% if a WoE weapon lvl 85+ is equipped along with at least two pieces of a +2 Empy gear. Then one % for ever piece thereafter. So a player in full Empy +2 could have their set bonus proc a maximum of 15% of the time as long as WoE weapon lvl 85+ is equipped?

Now this hidden effect wouldn't just boost the set bonus procs willy nilly or anything like that. The set bonus would still have to have its pre-reqs met. IE: say PUP or DRG would still have to have a pet present, a DRK would still get an atk boost based on their current HP, a DNC would still have to have a Samba up, etc.

So not a huge boost, but something neat imo, that would give WoE weapons some sort of draw.

SNK

12-21-2012, 03:46 AM

Please dump the ex on coins and thank you very much!!!!!!

94 Coins of Ruin.
86 Coins of Advancement.
64 Coin of Decay.
55 Coin of Birth.
1 Coin of Glory.

Yeah this needs to happen now. I wanted to finish the sword for awhile but yeah Glory Coins just don't happen often enough for me.

Pebe

12-21-2012, 06:25 AM

I just dropped about 150 coins I thought I would never use....

HKBGGGFKRNDLSKDGJMVLDBNKVCFAHSDGVBRKDBN!!!!

SNK

12-21-2012, 02:09 PM

I just dropped about 150 coins I thought I would never use....

HKBGGGFKRNDLSKDGJMVLDBNKVCFAHSDGVBRKDBN!!!!

Yeah I almost did the same, Glad I decided to be a packrat. lol

Kincard

12-21-2012, 03:59 PM

* You flat forgot Jishnu's Radiance(most ppl seem to want to ignore it too, so its not just you). Whether you have WoE or full Empy, that WS completely outclasses its merit counterpart.

I mostly ignored bow for a two reasons.

1. People don't really use bows that much outside of proccing anymore
2. If you are using Yoichinoyumi it is likely because you want the enmity properties of Namas Arrow so Apex Arrow VS Jishnu's wouldn't really apply in relic VS empyrean

Bows in generally probably need some readjusting, really.

Calintzpso

12-24-2012, 08:54 AM

Spiritreaver

12-24-2012, 03:51 PM

I mostly ignored bow for a two reasons.

1. People don't really use bows that much outside of proccing anymore
2. If you are using Yoichinoyumi it is likely because you want the enmity properties of Namas Arrow so Apex Arrow VS Jishnu's wouldn't really apply in relic VS empyrean

3)Bows in generally probably need some readjusting, really.

@1- Was just saying 'cause you kinda made a sweeping statement there. CdC is not the only Empy WS that performs better than its merit analog. Bear with me niggling at your statement, i admit i'm biased as i have Jishnu's and have had Apex @5/5 and tested them for myself; Jishnu's(for me i must stress) performed better every time.

@2- I didn't bring Relic Bow into my post because its off topic. Don't see the relevance here.

@3- I do agree with this. To be specific i think that readjustment should be in the ammo acquisition department across the board(Bow, Gun, and Crossbow).

I like my Gandiva. Being a suicidal Ranger is the only kind of fun I still enjoy :p

@spiritreaver

Situational. Apex ignores Defense, Jishnu's Crits like a mofo. If you were to compare them, WoE vs Merit, based on your target's Stats... You'd want Apex for decent steady damage which is easier to cap on most targets. Jishnu on a targets with lower evasion(agi) and/or defense. However this is all based around how you make your sets and targets, and if in Abby, well...Abby just breaks near everything, Jishnu all the way then.

However, I have yet to come across a mob in this game that had significant defense to consider apex. I don't mean pdt- mobs, I mean in general there just isn't a mob at endgame that exists to my knowledge to make me main this after starting aftermath. WS looks dam cool tho on my Elvaan...

If you bring sidewinder back in with a good set, it can out perform apex almost 90%+ of the time. Just *shutter* dam SW acc, shocked I haven't taken out our LS whm taru's eye with a rogue shot.

I can agree with your sentiments to a point.

I haven't used Apex on anything or been in a situation for me where its special properties outweighed the use of Jishnu's. And in terms of consistency, Jishnu's has been rock solid for me. After i blew all those merits to test, i promptly took Apex back to 0/5 and haven't really looked back.

Others may find Apex better for them, no question in my mind there. And i am in no way saying it sucks, it is a solid WS imo, but i am sticking to Jishnu's. If i was on RNG more, i might have been inclined to keep it, but alas i'm usually on DRK, MNK, BLU or NIN.

Kincard

12-24-2012, 05:51 PM

I didn't bring Relic Bow into my post because its off topic. Don't see the relevance here.

I was making the suggestion that they make WoE weapons more attractive for players to pursue by making the Empyrean WSs stronger. The biggest concern with doing something like that would be how it would affect the balance between relics and empyreans. In the case of Yoichi VS Gandiva, Yoichi is used for the enmity properties and Gandiva is just when you want to totally lose it with the damage.

I'm not sure how the OAT Bow using Apex would compare to a WoE Bow, but it's plausible the OAT would win through WS frequency despite Apex being weaker than Jishnu's.

Eri

12-24-2012, 09:52 PM

Agree with some of what you said, just wanted to add:

* Unless you are gearing horribly for it, Victory Smite should be slightly AHEAD of Shijin Spiral. And that's on PUP. On MNK with higher base skill and Impetus, VS is firmly the better WS.

* You flat forgot Jishnu's Radiance(most ppl seem to want to ignore it too, so its not just you). Whether you have WoE or full Empy, that WS completely outclasses its merit counterpart.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As to the sentiment that overall, WoE weapons need 'something' to make people want to build them, i have a neat idea i have been thinking about a while.

How about giving WoE weapons a hidden effect where they enhance the set bonus on Empy +2 sets once the Empy WS is unlocked?

Nothing crazy, but say boost the activation to 12% if a WoE weapon lvl 85+ is equipped along with at least two pieces of a +2 Empy gear. Then one % for ever piece thereafter. So a player in full Empy +2 could have their set bonus proc a maximum of 15% of the time as long as WoE weapon lvl 85+ is equipped?

Now this hidden effect wouldn't just boost the set bonus procs willy nilly or anything like that. The set bonus would still have to have its pre-reqs met. IE: say PUP or DRG would still have to have a pet present, a DRK would still get an atk boost based on their current HP, a DNC would still have to have a Samba up, etc.

So not a huge boost, but something neat imo, that would give WoE weapons some sort of draw.

As it stands to less ppl do WoE.

Being me.... playing mostly Japanese Times~
I have a Lv 99 Weapon. So i can't agree with to hard to get.
However i would have to agree with Empy Lv90 being a significantly faster thing to finish.

I think the only thing that would revive WoE from being as....
(> Less crowded? (Empty) As it is in other Timezones.)

...would be to add some sort of 'Defensive Aftermath' in a follow up Trail.
(Be it ~10% Damage Taken)

Something that would distinguish Emp and Woe Weapons.
Despite being a weaker Damage Version.

As for Set Bonus i find that its not a good Idea to Force ppl into Wearing Empy + 2 Gear all the Time.

Afania

01-03-2013, 07:44 AM

Even with this adjustment to WoE weapons, a great chunk of them are not useful because of the merit weapon skills. A STR weapon typically costs 4-5M in geodes, an OAT weapons typically costs something like 3M in mirrors/riftsand, and a WoE weapon costs 20M in die/residue to upgrade to 99.

The WoE weapons should not be adjusted in comparison to empyreans, but rather in comparison to STR and OAT weapons. The STR and OAT weapons are outdoing the WoE weapons because most (all?) of the merit WSs now outclass the Empyrean ones. Some solutions to this can be:

1. Improve Empyrean WS
2. Add the base stat increase to WoE weapons
3. Add a weakened aftermath effect to WoE weapons
4. Add stats onto the WoE weapon, such as DA on the axe or TA on the dagger, that sort of thing.

The WoE weapons are never going to be made if something cheaper and more easily obtained is going to outclass them.

The WoE weapons not worth getting generally means their empy not worth getting too. But for the jobs that really need empy WS, but don't want to invest time in getting a lv 90 empy, making 99 WoE weapon easier to get isn't a bad option.

You also didn't consider the fact that not everyone have all merit WS for all their jobs, but getting empy WS can get the job done when you just want to play the job for fun etc.

For example, if I want to lv MNK and NIN and play it in none serious content, but don't have merit WS, and don't want to farm an empy for it, WoE weapon with empy WS is next best option.

Okipuit

01-03-2013, 08:14 AM

Hello,

Below is a follow-up post from Producer Akihiko Matsui in regards to the aforementioned adjustments to Walk of Echoes weapons.

Thanks for all the feedback.

The adjustment to the difficulty of obtaining coins and other items was meant to slightly reduce the difficulty of obtaining Walk of Echoes weapons. (I have mentioned this in my previous post, so if you already know this, please just ignore it.)

We’ve also been taking to heart the opinions from those of you mentioning that it’s too late and there is no meaning to perform these adjustments now. On the other hand, I understand that there are those of you who feel that even though it’s late it is a welcome change.

Also, more specifically, there are those of you who mentioned that Trick Dice and Liminal Residue were fine and suggested methods for not removing the EX status on coins. Development schedule wise we still have time to select the options for addressing this, so please let us know your feedback.

There have also been a few players mentioning that they would like the Walk of Echoes weapons to be made stronger. Since these weapons were meant to be easier to obtain and weaker than Empyrean weapons, instead of increasing the stats we will be lowering the cost associated with them. (This doesn’t mean that we won’t ever be revamping the stats on them though.)

Additionally, we understand the feedback asking to adjust Walk of Echoes to make it fun. However, this involves recreating various systems and requires time and man-power. I will look into adjustments and changes to the Walk of Echoes content separately with the team to make it more enjoyable.

Alhanelem

01-03-2013, 12:40 PM

the coins arent as much of a problem as the dice/residue. the quantity required vs the drop rate is enough to make anyone stop working on the weapon they may have started before those stages were released and go make an empy instead. Drop rate needs to be increased / quantity needed needs to be lowered / walks that drop them need to be easier (One or more of these three things.

Zhronne

01-03-2013, 05:10 PM

Imho three things should be changed in WoE:
1) Granting a quick access to the zone by other locations. For example a waypoint from Anastase? Or whatever else
2) Removing the necessity to zone in/out to get a new Kupofried medallion
3) Add "temporary quest". There was a similar concept in WoW a long time ago, with the "Daily" dungeons. Each day a dungeon was randomly selected and players would receive additional benefit by doing that dungeon. There could be something similar in WoE, where every X hours a certain Conflux is selected and players will receive additional bonus by completing that conflux.

Powder

01-03-2013, 10:28 PM

Good Morning! I would like to say on the Phoenix server I do Walk of Echoes everyday. Everyday I have to shout for people to please disband because Walk of Echoes enemies aggro party members especially in flux #15. Naturally, people don't listen so, I decided to do what I did for Campaign years ago. I made a WalkOfEchoes linkshell. Everyone who does the walk is welcome to join and everyone is sacked. It's going good people are loving it. We let everyone know which flux we are going to and it cuts down on the shouts except letting for shouting for our Japanese players. I do have one Japanese player in there and he seems happy. It has been hard to make people understand the party aggro in these battlefields and some just don't listen. Anyway, I just wanted to throw this in here in case someone on another server might want to do this. We love the Walk and have a lot of fun and getting rich doesn't hurt either. lol
Fixing the coins is going to be awesome because I hate to dump things other people need so bad so thank you for taking that serious.
If you are on Phoenix and do the Walk and want in the linkshell send me a tell please.

Crimson_Slasher

01-04-2013, 12:46 AM

One thing that majorly needs to be considered is for those players who say these things are fine, you do need to take a look at them with steady eyes. One needs to make sure that they are not simply those players who like to be in the "have" group and pick on the "have nots". Personally i have 2 WOE weapons, and one emp, a second emp in the process. I like the WOE weapons for jobs i need that little bit more UMPH on but dont feel so strongly about that id just knuckle down on to get the real thing. While i was able to get a good number of coins personally, i feel that now with my current progress, i have coins i wont be using and i would like to be able to give them to a friend.

The problem with this is i do know there are players who will just buy all 30 coins and make a weapon without entering WOE at all, but i dont see that as a problem or bad thing sometimes, especially on servers where the event is underappreciated. Second, what might aleviate the process of making these weapons would make static drop slots or points that can be exchanged for x item. An example is for clearing 5 WOE fluxes, one could earn enough points to buy a Coin pouch, or Dev-Die pouch, or lastly lets say 3 luminial residue.

I am of the opinion that these weapons do need to be made easier than empyreans, which i also feel need to be made easer (around the heavy metal stage primarily.) and the thought of adding die pouches, tradeable coins, and whatnot are good ways to do this!

Reflecting on this in my personal case, im not sitting here going "i can make SOOOOO MUCH MONEY if they make coins tradeable/bazaarable!" but instead i think of my 2 friends whom have a polearm, and greataxe right at the crossroads for the emp and woe variant weapons. Chloris and Glavoid are daunting tasks needing so many KI and i look to my mule who has extra coins for both of these friends. I would simply love to just go "Oh guys! here i have extras!" and let them finish these weapons they have had for over a year!

My thoughts on the matter but i hope they are taken into consideration. I also would like to be able to take the 2 weapons (or more if i keep making them) that i have and upgrade them to the 95 form, even if 99 is out of reach.

Alhanelem

01-04-2013, 02:40 AM

The problem with this is i do know there are players who will just buy all 30 coins and make a weapon without entering WOE at all, but i dont see that as a problem or bad thing sometimes, especially on servers where the event is underappreciated. Second, what might aleviate the process of making these weapons would make static drop slots or points that can be exchanged for x item. An example is for clearing 5 WOE fluxes, one could earn enough points to buy a Coin pouch, or Dev-Die pouch, or lastly lets say 3 luminial residue. The thing is, you'll still see more people in WoE on a regular basis, because you can make some money doing it. It's really win-win.

Powder

01-04-2013, 12:44 PM

On Phoenix the coin drop is good. Liminal Residue have slowed down selling i bazaar for 100k and had 20 and they aren't selling. Devious Die sell as soon as I put them in bazaar. Goldsmithers should love the Walk for the plentiful drops too.

bigdave

01-05-2013, 06:01 AM

I would love to see a reduced amount of heavy metals for real emperian weapons over this going from 50/50/75/1500/60 is way to much in my opinion

Ezekieal

01-14-2013, 09:41 AM

There have also been a few players mentioning that they would like the Walk of Echoes weapons to be made stronger. Since these weapons were meant to be easier to obtain and weaker than Empyrean weapons, instead of increasing the stats we will be lowering the cost associated with them. (This doesn’t mean that we won’t ever be revamping the stats on them though.)

This is very dissappointing, the whole point of people asking about a stat boost was because the difficulty of obtaining a 99 woe weapon is actually quite a lot harder than most 90 Empyrean weapons.

I have a Circinae (99 woe bow) and it is a great bow, and i like being one of only a handful of people that owns one, but i feel that it would of been way easier and cheaper to of got a lvl 90 Gandiva which is also a better bow overall than the Circinae.

I do understand that these are supposed to be lesser weapons to the empyrean forms but they arent easier to farm, if comparing 90 empy to 99 woe.

And simply making woe easier now is quite frankly a complete insult! All the hard work, time and gil spent is going to be cheapened.

However I do have a suggestion that would make people like me who have spent a lot of time farming woe weapons (had dagger and katana before i replaced with mandau and kannagi) happier with the returns on our hard work.

Like all REM weapons why not add a second 99 stage, although rather than an afterglow add a useful but not overpowering stat boost.

eg.
Circinae R/E/A
[Ranged] All Races
DMG:116 Delay:524 "Jishnu's Radiance"
Crit. Dmg +5
LV 99 RNG

A fair quest for this i think could be 150-200 coins of the original type ie decay for my bow.

Anyway agree with the rest of the post, just that really irked me.

Caketime

01-14-2013, 10:08 AM

Ezekieal

01-14-2013, 10:21 AM

Whatever WoE weapons were "meant" to be, they're far more time consuming to make than any of the others except for Mythic. I'd like to see another set of trials for them, don't care if I have to collect 5,000 pinches of Belphegor's Gooch hair, anything to keep WoE worth going to. Currently it's my "too drunk to do anything else" event, along with Limbus.

ROFL! Yeah i would like to avoid woe if possible now but with my suggestion and the future update to remove the ex from coins you could just buy them and i am sure they wouldnt be so expensive as to make buying 200 for a modest stat increase unjustified.

Eri

01-14-2013, 10:03 PM

This is very dissappointing, the whole point of people asking about a stat boost was because the difficulty of obtaining a 99 woe weapon is actually quite a lot harder than most 90 Empyrean weapons.

I have a Circinae (99 woe bow) and it is a great bow, and i like being one of only a handful of people that owns one, but i feel that it would of been way easier and cheaper to of got a lvl 90 Gandiva which is also a better bow overall than the Circinae.

I do understand that these are supposed to be lesser weapons to the empyrean forms but they arent easier to farm, if comparing 90 empy to 99 woe.

And simply making woe easier now is quite frankly a complete insult! All the hard work, time and gil spent is going to be cheapened.

However I do have a suggestion that would make people like me who have spent a lot of time farming woe weapons (had dagger and katana before i replaced with mandau and kannagi) happier with the returns on our hard work.

Like all REM weapons why not add a second 99 stage, although rather than an afterglow add a useful but not overpowering stat boost.

eg.
Circinae R/E/A
[Ranged] All Races
DMG:116 Delay:524 "Jishnu's Radiance"
Crit. Dmg +5
LV 99 RNG

A fair quest for this i think could be 150-200 coins of the original type ie decay for my bow.

Anyway agree with the rest of the post, just that really irked me.

I agree on your post mainly.

And I totally feel the same way in some cases. (99 WoE too)

But i do not agree with the stat boost.... since it would have to be a lot.

The aftermath on a Lv90 Empy Wep is the reason it outdoes 99 WoE hands down.

I'm NOT saying that full empy shouldn't be stronger!
But lv 90 Emp beating lv 99 WoE? Really?

The only thing that would chage that (at least the ways i see...)
Ideas:

Adding Aftermath to the 99 WoE in a Followup Trail. (It should not be the same Aftermath as Empy)

Adding a many stats (replace stats with Aftermath maybe) as it needs to slightly beat Lv90 Full Empy.

I would also like to say that im currently unhappy with the fact WoE99 have no unique look.