Hexagun's: Ideas on how to make them worthwhile to use.

[Cruxus]

Upon the announcement of COR being a new job, I was psyched to see a pirate as a playable job, and with a six barrel gun to boot. While playing the job, and acquiring numerous hexaguns, I really became disappointed that there was no boon to using an actual weapon that the job can exclusively own, aside from a usually lower delay upon firing which honestly takes a back seat due to ammo selection and availability. Honestly the only use COR's usually get out of the gun they carry round, is QD and WS's otherwise if you're going for ranged dmg why not just RNG, right?

IMO a corsair using their trademark weapon of choice, should gain some sort of "bonus" in doing so, otherwise there's no real point in even considering any future implementations of hexaguns due to the inferior stats compared to other guns.

Looking at the Acinaces that drops off the T3 VNM Maere, in Grauberg, one possible way to make hexaguns worthwhile is to have a hidden (or non-hidden) trait that may allow use of QD without consumption of cards.

Thoughts and Ideas from fellow COR's?

[Capn]

The Quick Draw formula paired with the low damage rating made hexaguns a flop out of the gate. The fact that I could deal more WS damage and provide higher QD #'s with a non hexagun kills it in it's infancy.

Don't get me wrong, I love the models for the hexagun, and kinda wish there were a special magian tree just for hexaguns, but alas, I do not see a day where the hexagun will rise again. (unless they changed the QD formula, and adjusted the base damage on the hexagun((and made bullets cheaper...)))

[Cruxus]

The Quick Draw formula paired with the low damage rating made hexaguns a flop out of the gate. The fact that I could deal more WS damage and provide higher QD #'s with a non hexagun kills it in it's infancy.

Yes, sadly Hexagun's never have been on par with any decent gun that was available before or even after they were introduced to the game along with COR. I guess unless actual formulas were to be altered, even a minor bonus given to using a hexagun would be rather useless, but I do love the hexagun model and would love to see them be worthy of use over standard guns.../sigh

[Leonidus]

Hexagun's should boost QD in some new innovative way.

If it were me, and it clearly has never been my choice...
Hexaguns would do more damage than your average guns with Quick Draw
They would also much more notably enhance debuffs.
Perhaps add a debuff to element similar to AF3+1/2 feet.

Maybe add a more common trait to Hexaguns that gives them the chance to Occ Attack 2-3 times... Its got 6 barrels and the gun's damage is low anyway. At least this would give COR a market with ranged attacks that RNG's couldn't capitalize on.
Of course with that ability you'd need to work in a way for COR to get more or conserve more ammo so they could utilize it.

Just some suggestions, not that i've seen any moderators or DEV's post in this particular forum at all..

[Reimii]

Yeah it would be nice if our trade weapon actually meant something. From what I've seen thus far, Hexaguns were only made for us to shoot faster than Rangers. If anyone has noticed, the delay on then is lower than the normal one handed shotgun RNG and COR can use making them the best pulling weapons (even the current best pulling gun, Awilda's Gun, is a hexagun).

I would personally LOVE to see a good QD hexagun just for us...and it has to be something better than the Mayhem +2 with MAB+10 since at the moment besides the Emperyean and the Mythic it's probably the best Quick Draw gun for normal CORs like me. ^^; Like maybe a hexagun with good damage (maybe MAB or MACC) that adds a status effect to the QDs or even adds an additional charge to your QD timer. That'd be so hot.

[Chiibi]

"Hexagun's: Ideas on how to make them worthwhile to use. " - Make them sub weapons and not use ammo.

[Rambus]

"Hexagun's: Ideas on how to make them worthwhile to use. " - Make them sub weapons and not use ammo.

Then you loose tp when you change to a teal gun for ws or QD =/.

or hmm maybe i misunderstand, sub weapons? like shield? how would that work?

[Chiibi]

think dual wield.

[Jski]

Would be nice to have more then one "end game" gun for cor in this game.

[kaguyushi]

Hexagun got 6 cannons so make them shoot 6 bullet at once (18 with triple shot)

[Kaida]

Hexagun got 6 cannons so make them shoot 6 bullet at once (18 with triple shot)

Just make them shoot gil

[bishop]

"Hexagun's: Ideas on how to make them worthwhile to use. " - Make them sub weapons and not use ammo.

This so much. Funny how they are suppose to be the trademark weapon but they're so useless compared to the non hexguns.

[LeaderofAtlantis]

I thought about this once and I came up with a new Job Ability that will only work with a Hexagun equipped.

Hexablast - This would be a single shot that would be the equivalent of making a Quick Draw shot into an AoE spell. Now in the cases of Light Shot and Dark Shot, you'd get a light based, AoE sleep and a Dispel that would remove 1 buff per monster.

NOW, this would be a little bit different from your typical AoE spell because it could only affect up to 6 targets (Hexagun having 6 separate barrels and all). Also, it would consume 6 cards at once. I'm not certain of a good recast time for something like this, but it would be a way to get Corsairs to equip Hexaguns.

[Mirabelle]

I thought about this once and I came up with a new Job Ability that will only work with a Hexagun equipped.

Hexablast - This would be a single shot that would be the equivalent of making a Quick Draw shot into an AoE spell. Now in the cases of Light Shot and Dark Shot, you'd get a light based, AoE sleep and a Dispel that would remove 1 buff per monster.

NOW, this would be a little bit different from your typical AoE spell because it could only affect up to 6 targets (Hexagun having 6 separate barrels and all). Also, it would consume 6 cards at once. I'm not certain of a good recast time for something like this, but it would be a way to get Corsairs to equip Hexaguns.

Not sure that would get me to equip a hexagun unless it was on the same QD timer. Still doesn't make us a great sleeper compared to BRD, BLM and RDM. And I'm not anxious for spending 300 gil a shot for sleepga.

In order to make hexaguns worthwhile and yet maintain the low delay/low damage model, they need to either given them huge amounts of MAB, and/or cheap high damage bullets. Or they need to change the QD formula so its no longer based on gun and bullet damage.

And of course you'd then need a hexagun Empyrean to compete with Armageddon. And given they haven't done a magian Xbow, they certainly won't be doing a magian hexagun.

The bottom line is the old SE really screwed the pooch on this unique aspect of COR and never fixed it. I have more hope in the current dev team, as they have been working at making the game more accessible and fun to play for everyone. Sadly, they seem obsessed with changing XI's which is probably the least of every COR's worries.

If I were to prioritize COR's needs it would be:
Fix ranged attacks
Cheaper, better and available bullets
Buffer specific atmas (augments phantom roll effect: major)
Haste roll
Redo hexaguns
Give us some magian sword and dagger options
Boost XIs

[Arek]

Humm... I like some ideas in this thread.

Here is another : Increase the number of QD Charges when using an Hexagun to 6.

[Trellosaurus]

Hahaha well, I love the idea of the Hexagun firing multiple rounds occasionally. Given the luck COR has had with having it's much needed upgrades, SE will probably implement this idea but not give COR any means of Recycle. Lol. All this money I poured in and all I got was a cheesy pirate hat with a poofy feather!

[Yinnyth]

If you want to make hexaguns useful, the simplest way is to make them the opposite of what they are now. Make them more powerful, but slower than normal guns. Melee cors hate hexaguns because they get less damage and less TP return out of their WS, not to mention the nerfed quickdraw damage. Range cors hate hexaguns because they do horrible damage and eat ammo like Yilbegan eats Tarutaru. So just make a hexagun with 90 base damage and 900 delay.

[Sp1cyryan]

Considering all the magian guns are not hexaguns I am going to have to say it be a useless addition.

[Shadobi]

HEXAGUN should add a additional effect on the card spell (Water shot adds poison) play on words A hex is a magical spell, usually with malevolent purposes such as a curse.

Should also get a CARD TOSS then use quick draw to chain number of cards tossed. Over powered who cares we desevere it =P ( I since flamers coming)

[Jski]

HEXAGUN should add a additional effect on the card spell (Water shot adds poison) play on words A hex is a magical spell, usually with malevolent purposes such as a curse.

Should also get a CARD TOSS then use quick draw to chain number of cards tossed. Over powered who cares we desevere it =P ( I since flamers coming)

The add effect would be fun to have but i think the thing that kills must guns but the wildfire guns is the ws wildfire they realty should make that ws something you can use on any gun much like the salvages weapons. If in the update there is a ok changes to Leaden Salute or Slug Shot i can see this some what helping the use of hexaguns. Something i would not mind seeing is an set of hexaguns that have add effect on there rng attk in that bullets that cor can use have no true add effect on them like xbow so may be a set of hexaguns that will do add dmg or add down effects.

[Lojinxx]

Alrite, so I read through this thread and I'm kind of baffled at some people feeling like our job(I'm a COR main) is underpowered or underprivileged lol. One person said "All this money I poured in and all I got was a cheesy pirate hat with a poofy feather!" lol I totally respect the OP for what he/she is trying to say: "Ideas on how to make hexaguns worthwhile to use", but at the same time I wonder why people really care that much. Yea it would be neat(I guess?) for hexaguns to be of better use, but have any of you guys used Wildfire? For anyone who may not know, it's the highest damage weaponskill in the game. In abyssea, I rarely do less than 5000dmg and depending on the mob sometimes 7 or 8000 dmg consistantly. NO OTHER JOB DOES THIS! And because it's enhanced by MAB which corsairs can stack in a ridiculous way, it's damage is exclusively the highest when used by a Corsair, not Rangers. I think SE has done nothing but good with Corsair. Would it be neat to see SE make a RNG only and COR only magian gun(or hexagun), each able to use wildfire? Sure, that would be neat for cosmetics I guess, but do people really think the job needs anything more than it already has? I get so many "ohhh^^"s and "ahhhs^^"s from people when I do 7000dmg wildfires, or when i pop a brew and can 2 shot pantakrator(or however u spell it) in 10 seconds. It seems like the people who are upset about the job are the people who just sit in town and don't do anything with it because they have no idea how to play the job effectively. You can go out there and be a top dog DD and support job at the same time, but people are upset because their gun barrel is round and not six-sided >.< I dunno lol just seems a bit funny.

[Mirabelle]

When your job requires an Empyrean weapon to be useful, that doesn't indicate SE has been throwing the love around. I don't have that much playtime anymore so I haven't been able to make much progress towards getting Wildfire. And many of my LS mates that played COR have just abandoned the job rather than go for the Empyrean. When you can be good as a WHM just by levelling the job and buying Cure V and VI, why put yourself through a major grind to have an Abyssea WS that isn't nearly as good outside of Abyssea. It's not like people are going to be there forever.
I'm not trying to disrespect Wildfire. And I hope SE makes WoE a bit more player friendly so I can go for the bedlam +1 just to get it.
But its a hard go when you are playing a bit more casually these days.

[Lojinxx]

The WS doesn't require an Empyrean. As you touched on at the end of your post you need a Bedlam, which is what I have. I totally agree with you in that, there are definitely some improvements WoE is due for, but it's really not that difficult to make a weapon. Sure it does take some time(and I understand you feel you don't have that time), but you can go in there and solo or duo to make these weapons, it's really pretty simple. If you work on things like seals and jewels in abyssea for AF+2, you should be working on this gun first because it's WAY more beneficial. Also, you say Wildfire doesn't do nearly as good outside of Abyssea. On one hand you're correct because you go from doing 5-8k ws's down to usually 1400-2400(sometimes consistently higher if the mob isn't magic resistant) but compared to other weapons you're keeping right up if not closely following and sometimes leading in dmg outside of Abyssea. If we come across new material from SE that is not Abyssea styled, I won't be disappointed. Corsair still does really good Wildfire damage outside the maws.

[Jski]

Alrite, so I read through this thread and I'm kind of baffled at some people feeling like our job(I'm a COR main) is underpowered or underprivileged lol. One person said "All this money I poured in and all I got was a cheesy pirate hat with a poofy feather!" lol I totally respect the OP for what he/she is trying to say: "Ideas on how to make hexaguns worthwhile to use", but at the same time I wonder why people really care that much. Yea it would be neat(I guess?) for hexaguns to be of better use, but have any of you guys used Wildfire? For anyone who may not know, it's the highest damage weaponskill in the game. In abyssea, I rarely do less than 5000dmg and depending on the mob sometimes 7 or 8000 dmg consistantly. NO OTHER JOB DOES THIS! And because it's enhanced by MAB which corsairs can stack in a ridiculous way, it's damage is exclusively the highest when used by a Corsair, not Rangers. I think SE has done nothing but good with Corsair. Would it be neat to see SE make a RNG only and COR only magian gun(or hexagun), each able to use wildfire? Sure, that would be neat for cosmetics I guess, but do people really think the job needs anything more than it already has? I get so many "ohhh^^"s and "ahhhs^^"s from people when I do 7000dmg wildfires, or when i pop a brew and can 2 shot pantakrator(or however u spell it) in 10 seconds. It seems like the people who are upset about the job are the people who just sit in town and don't do anything with it because they have no idea how to play the job effectively. You can go out there and be a top dog DD and support job at the same time, but people are upset because their gun barrel is round and not six-sided >.< I dunno lol just seems a bit funny.

That kind of the problem with cor atm its being made into a pure dd job type where the cor job idea is a support job that can do some dd. Once you have wildfire your better off buffing your self and not think about who near you are what they could possibly use. By adding in a use for hexaguns you can get a way from the pure dd job type with having add effect on QD or even cor's rolls.

[Wenceslao]

I would like bonus added to QD, and actually we use an Hexagun, why it only fires one shoot at a time? (i also want more bullets to use and an easier way to obtain them), Hexaguns are impaired if compared to other guns, so a bonus on Corsair's specific job abilities would raise its value on the battlefield, like QD acc+ or help on Phantom Roll's duration, random deal improvements, etc....

[Rezeak]

Along time ago i worked out silver cassandra to be the best gun (or near best)

SC = Silver cassandra
CM = Coffinmaker

SC || 480 delay = 480/110+2.2s = 6.56s Firing time
CM || 600 Delay = 600/110 +2.2s = 7.65s Firing time
1/7.65 = 13.1% faster firing

Tp
CM || easy 6 hit 5 hit not possible without /SAM
SC || 15.9 tp a shot *1.05*6 = 100.26 tp aka 6 hit build and since it fires 13.1% faster 13.1% more WS

DMG per shot basic
7/110 = 6.3% DMG less DMG for other guns (if you add in fSTR or w/e it becomes less 113/120= 5.8% less DMG so 6% less DMG a shot is a fair esitmate

DoT 113% * 94% = 106% more DoT DMG

WS DMG 90 AGI is safe esitmate for a WS build and say 4 STR = 1 DMG as well (fSTR) and say they have 80 STR - mob vit = ~ +20 STR so,
5DMG from STR and 27 DMG from AGI so +32 Base DMG
110 +32 = 142
7/142 = 4.9% less DMG with Silver cassandra
113% faster WS * 95% WS DMG = 107% more WS DMG

so 6% more Dot and 7% more WS DMg meaning you'll have about 6-7% increase in DMG with silver cassandra

(never really calulated in quick draw back then but it was something like 14 less a Quick draw which wasn't too bad)

Either way the point is hexaguns did work at times when ur just spamming bullets but they fell apart more and more as u gained tp from meleeing eitherway now hexaguns are obsolete because of trial of the magians.

Honestly hexaguns could work agian ONLY if they get access to wildfire and maybe a quick draw boost

Tho if you melee for Tp i'm sure the 600 delay guns will always will have an edge over 480 delay gun cause it's unlike SE will make a 480 gun have more dmg than a 600 delay gun

O yea and a summary of the math above lower delay guns gain tp faster and do more damagae over time because bullets are the majority of our DMG combined with the fact bullet delay isn't counted in firing time also the difference between 840 and 620 delay tp wise is like 0.5 tp

[deathgod]

i was thinking the same thing as one of the previous posters. give cor a trait that has 20-40% proc to fire 2-6 rounds. have it work like barrage u keep firing till u miss. but u have to have hexagun equiped for this trait to activate

[Kaiichi]

Here's a thought, for some reason when Dual weild was mentiond my mind when to Fable II. If they did turn Hexaguns -- or at least a sub branch of hexaguns -- into a off handed weapon could it be possablel that when equiped they only actavated at a set % like a double attack and only when ammo was equiped?

[Alobont]

The amount of horrible ideas in this thread is astonishing. Quit trying to "fix" a weapon type that isnt broken.

[Mirabelle]

The amount of horrible ideas in this thread is astonishing. Quit trying to "fix" a weapon type that isnt broken.

Are you trying to say hexaguns aren't broken? Perhaps the most useless weapons for COR. If they aren't broken (in a bad way) then why do only gimp CORs use them.

[Yinnyth]

Hexaguns are almost as broken as claustrum........ almost. However, you don't fix a (bad) broken weapon by turning it into a (good) broken weapon and to be fair, many of the ideas in the thread are overkill. Hexaguns:

1. Give less TP return on QD and WS.
2. Do less damage on QD and WS without increasing the frequency you can use said abilities.
3. Require you to spend more gil per damage done in bullets (which are tard expensive because SE segregates bullets between RNG and COR and gives COR the ones with more expensive recipes).

Fix that trifecta of suq, and you fix hexaguns.

[Capn]

The amount of horrible ideas in this thread is astonishing. Quit trying to "fix" a weapon type that is not worth fixing.

ftfy

to everyone else: get a trial gun... or dat swap a hexagun for a trial gun...

[noodles355]

At least this would give COR a market with ranged attacks that RNG's couldn't capitalize on.There are many similar points in this topic.
I play Corsair and Ranger. Both are 90, both are geared. Just for the record.

But why do you people want Cor to be on par with Rng for DD? Do you really think that's fair? Do you really think a job that also has a support role to play should be able to put out damage equal to a job that is a pure DD and has no other purpose?

[Panthera]

Yes, Cor should have more useful options for its primary, exclusive weapon!

[Mirabelle]

There are many similar points in this topic.
I play Corsair and Ranger. Both are 90, both are geared. Just for the record.

But why do you people want Cor to be on par with Rng for DD? Do you really think that's fair? Do you really think a job that also has a support role to play should be able to put out damage equal to a job that is a pure DD and has no other purpose?

Inside Abyssea a COR can outdamage a RNG sadly.
Personally as someone that also plays RNG and COR as mains, I think both jobs need help. COR needs something to make buffs relevant again and RNG needs a way to do damage from a distance and not constantly move the mob away from the melees. That and both jobs could stand to have marksmanship/archery WS on the red proc list as well. Flaming Arrow/Hot Shot please?
I have no problem with QD on the yellow list provided they had an "All Jobs" Gun that people could equip. Then /COR could proc as well. Otherwise just NIN, RNG and COR would be able to yellow proc QD.

[Yinnyth]

Inside Abyssea a COR can outdamage a RNG sadly.

Wait, what? Where does this fact come from? It can't be from the physical weaponskills or physical shooting damage because RNG gets access to higher damage ranged weapons and ammo. Are you basing this off the growing number of corsairs with armageddon? That empyrean gun that rangers can also use? Except they don't because if they're a ranger, they go for gandiva because it does vastly more damage than armageddon. Are you just saying that they can outdamage a rng as long as the cor is leet and the rng is a newb, or are you comparing equally skilled and equipped cor and rng?


I have no problem with QD on the yellow list provided they had an "All Jobs" Gun that people could equip. Then /COR could proc as well. Otherwise just NIN, RNG and COR would be able to yellow proc QD You don't need to be equipped to a gun to use quickdraw, you just need to be equipped to a marksmanship-based weapon. Therefore, crossbows work as well. Sooooo... rngs, nins, wars, thfs, drks, and cors are all capable of using QD currently. However, rngs are the only job that gets access to heavy shot, and blast shot regardless of subjob or equipment.

I don't think they should really bother tweaking procs in aby too much at this point though. The issue of "balance" in abyssea would take forever to fix, and there are other areas of the game that could use that time more.