Great Sword Weaponskill Adjustment

[Ashman]

Hi everyone.

Some of you may know me from other various FFXI media. I have shied away from the official forums mostly because I disagree with the manner with which problems are addressed. Namely, I feel that adjustments are made to items that are irrelevant to the vast majority of the playerbase (order of outpost warp menu comes to mind) while things that everyone is concerned about are shunned (COP ring adjustment?) are put on the backburner or denied. It's not something I necessarily fault the dev team for. Frankly, it's hard to skim through all the posts requesting guillotine to be a 92 hit ws with 300% str mod, or wanting lightsaber models on paladin.

Regardless, I felt that I had to make a post in concern to something we have all been wondering about. By that of course I mean: Shockwave. Even before the additional effects were broken on weaponskills, I cannot remember a single time that I slept anything with Shockwave. Something that should have easily been Dark Knight's greatest tool has taken a backseat to content such as the lackluster merit weaponskill for Great Sword.

I propose that Shockwave gets a sleep-potency/duration buff based on TP. The sleep effect should be a potent "grey" based sleep (non-elemental) that has tp-bonus modifier of MND/INT> 50/50 respectively. The several pages I've seen suggest that Shockwave's duration is 60/120/360 seconds based on tp. Those durations would be more than adequate if anything ever actually fell asleep due to the weaponskill's usage.

I genuinely hope my suggestion gets some attention as this is clearly the easiest way to balance the disparity between Dark Knight and the other mage jobs. Thank you for your time.

[Narb]

There is no way around this action must be taken immediately to make this a reality.

[Gunit]

The sleep effect should be a potent "grey" based sleep (non-elemental) that has tp-bonus modifier of MND/INT> 50/50 respectively. The several pages I've seen suggest that Shockwave's duration is 60/120/360 seconds based on tp. Those durations would be more than adequate if anything ever actually fell asleep due to the weaponskill's usage.


That would be very unbalanced. I think perhaps a light based sleep(Dark already has dark based sleep) with a duration of 30/60/120 would be more in balance.

[ihm]

I expect this on Monday.

[Gaspee]

http://thatschurch.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/tumblr_maq77ecMHG1qejf6u.gif

[Ophannus]

I propose that Shockwave gets a sleep-potency/duration buff based on TP. The sleep effect should be a potent "grey" based sleep (non-elemental)

No such thing as non-elemental sleep. There is light based sleep and dark based sleep. No other status ailments get alternate elements.

[Urteil]

No such thing as non-elemental sleep. There is light based sleep and dark based sleep. No other status ailments get alternate elements.

http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Pinecone_Bomb

[Cowardlybabooon]

I thought this was a troll but it actually is a great idea.

[Tanama]

He's right. This ideology should also spread to every job's weapon skills and give them more use.

The OP's idea coincides with Kincard's post (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/29067-Inquiry-for-Mr.-Matsui-Upcoming-Weapon-Skill-Refinements?p=384286&viewfull=1#post384286) on the weapon skill refinements thread.


Personally, I would love it if they could adjust every weapon skill so that every single one will have some sort of niche use, so we arn't always just telling ourselves to spam the same weapon skill in combat over and over. Obviously we'll always have one that's best for damage but making the rest of them all have some use would be very nice (The Warrior's Break WSs come to mind immediately, if they were improved they would see a lot more use).

Just as an example, I'll use Katana WS since that's what I'm most familiar with:

Blade: Rin- Add "Stun" Effect to the WS.
Blade: Retsu- Increase the duration of the effect.
Blade: Teki- Increase damage, add "Drown" effect.
Blade: To- Increase damage, add "Frost" effect.
Blade: Chi- Increase damage, add "Rasp" effect.
Blade: Ei- Increase damage, add "Bio" effect.
Blade: Jin- Fine as-is.
Blade: Ten- Add TP-cutting effect.
Blade: Ku- Increase the mods, make it better than Jin in low-crit situations.
Blade: Yu- Make TP mod damage instead, make current 300TP duration be the duration at all TP.
Blade: Kamu- Change fTP to 3.0+, increase current 300TP duration be the duration at all TP, make TP mod damage or crit rate.
Blade: Metsu- Lengthen aftermath and allow subtle cap break, increase fTP to 4.0.
Blade: Hi- Increase the crit % mod at various TP values. 20/35/55 like Ukko's would be nice.
Blade: Shun- decrease the attack penalty at and make the attack scale faster.

[Raelia]

Simple version: SE doesn't want Shockwave to sleep a mob, then another Shockwave to wake it with damage and reapply sleep, resulting in casual spamming of the WS on constantly slept mobs.

If you can think of a way to abuse it, it will be abused. Shockwave would have to do paltry damage to be permitted a reliable sleep effect.

[Ophannus]

Alwyas thought Shockwave had a high potency sleep. I remember on wiki it used to say it was like a 5min duration or something at 300%. Also over in BG they tested Pinecone Bomb due to this thread and confirmed its dark based, no such thing as non-elemental status effect.

[Sephiran]

No such thing as non-elemental sleep. There is light based sleep and dark based sleep. No other status ailments get alternate elements.
I'm not 100% sure on this. From my experience, there appears to be special abilities that inflict ailments based on whether the hit from a physical special ability is "clean" (like Lethal Triclip). Some moves always inflict a status ailment assuming they do not miss/get resisted. And yet more simply always afflict the ailment in question. My LS has termed these as affliction types and named them conductive for the first type, physical/magical for the second, and vector for the third.

We like to name things. :o

[Cowardlybabooon]

Maybe the sleep is based on Enfeebling skill.

[Okipuit]

Greetings,

As previously mentioned above, if we were to increase Shockwave's sleep effect more than what it is currently, it would become extremely strong when fighting multiple enemies or strong enemies. Therefore, adjusting the potency/accuracy without affecting general battle strategy would be quite difficult.

By increasing magic accuracy the success rate will increase, so we'd like players to find methods like this to use it.

[Byrth]

http://images.wikia.com/adventuretimewithfinnandjake/images/7/7d/3005.jackie-chan-meme-why.jpg

I'd really hate for people to gather up a large group of monsters and AoE WS them to death with a single healer. That would be broken.


Square: We made an event-item which is useful

User: Cool, we luv it.

Square: It was too useful, so we make this useless.

[Alhanelem]

Greetings,

As previously mentioned above, if we were to increase Shockwave's sleep effect more than what it is currently, it would become extremely strong when fighting multiple enemies or strong enemies. Therefore, adjusting the potency/accuracy without affecting general battle strategy would be quite difficult.

By increasing magic accuracy the success rate will increase, so we'd like players to find methods like this to use it.
Umm, well currently it is terrible.

Making it to just the level where people would consider using it would not make it too strong. Apparently "useful" = "too strong" in SE's book?

Things like this SHOULD be affecting "general battle strategy."

NOBODY uses weapon skills for their debuffs. people only use them for the damage.

[Karbuncle]

Terrible WS is terrible, and apparently will remain as such. Kinda just paints the way to a grim future for other Additional effect WS. Like say... Garland of bliss, which is -12.5% DEF... where as Tachi: Ageha is ~25%(??) and hell, Shell Crusher, a Staff WS you obtain at about 150... is -25%.

I mean, would using a weaponskill in some scenarios strategically for uses outside of damage really cause a catastrophic meltdown of the core game mechanics causing balance issues of such grave disturbance it would throw battle strategy out the window and all combat and balance in the world as we know it would cease to exist?

On a much more reasonable note, I do believe this logic should be rethought, as analhelm said, these kind of things should be a part of battle strategy, not purposefully nerfed to avoid its use.

[SpankWustler]

So, battle-related things such as weapon-skills do (and apparently should) exist that are so useless they have no bearing on battle strategy.

Well. Okay.

My brain hurts in shades of chartreuse like fresh oatmeal cookies.

[nyheen]

so spaming aoe WS with 1 mage killing almost all of the mob camp is not broken but using a GS sleep aoe ws would be?

[Insaniac]

Pretty sure Okipuit just trolled all of you.

[MarkovChain]

So devs are confirming that magic accuracy affects WS with magical additional effect ?

[Dazusu]

Anything worth killing usually can't be slept. What's the big deal? Useless WS.

Edit: Good for skilling up GS on Mandies.

[Zirael]

Anything worth killing usually can't be slept. What's the big deal? Useless WS.

Edit: Good for skilling up GS on Mandies.
I liked DRK/RDM in Spectators in Ulegureand. Phalanx, Ice spikes, Arcana Killer is just awesome there. It's the best GSD skillup weaponskill. As for sleeping anything, from what I saw it's about 5% chance, ie 1 Spectator slept out of 15-20 I was taking down. How much magic accuracy would you need to raise Sleep accuracy from the floor? Haha! And even then there is still a possibility of missing, since the weaponskill is physical.
I'm sorry, but this Dev reply is nonsense. Please play the game on real servers sometime, since on the test server weaponskill and Blue Magic debuffs have "normal" accuracy, but on real servers everything is floored at 5%. This disparity has been reported by many players already.

[SpankWustler]

Pretty sure Okipuit just trolled all of you.

I can just imagine this topic being translated all the way to the Development Bros, who somehow realize it was a troll post. Their fists clench, their eyes glow red, and they send along only one sentence in response. "Show them who the real troll is!"

[doctorugh]

Please play the game on real servers sometime, since on the test server weaponskill and Blue Magic debuffs have "normal" accuracy, but on real servers everything is floored at 5%. This disparity has been reported by many players already.

Reposting for emphasis. Please quit ignoring this stuff, like it doesnt exist. Tons of posts made on this!

[Arcon]

The fact that they replied to this idiot's post at all is almost as bad as the content of the actual reply was. This thread is just a pathetic display of failure all around.

[tyrantsyn]

Greetings,

As previously mentioned above, if we were to increase Shockwave's sleep effect more than what it is currently, it would become extremely strong when fighting multiple enemies or strong enemies. Therefore, adjusting the potency/accuracy without affecting general battle strategy would be quite difficult.

By increasing magic accuracy the success rate will increase, so we'd like players to find methods like this to use it.
Has any one ever taken the time to test the ws with Macc? Or even bother to make a build for it using it? It's sounds like something out side of the box that could have been missed to me. Considering the damage on the actually ws is low, I have a hard time believing anyone's done more than pile the base modifier into it hoping to get something more out of it.

[Insaniac]

It was a troll topic with a troll reply. No one should be getting upset over this.

[Plasticleg]

Well played Community Team...
Well played.

[tyrantsyn]

Guess I'm just not that quick :D

[Sapphires]

The few times i've bothered to shockwave stuff for the hell of it, it does land.
I own and use a macc gsword, no idea if that actually helps or not. However you'd be stupid to use an AE ws and throw away your option of supertanking adds with a healer around and just spam resolution on 1 target at a time.

TBH if i wanted to sleep a bunch of stuff on drk, I sub SCH and manifestation sleep II everything.
Works just fine on aby/xp/trashmobs.

Go back to spamming reso, shockwave sucks even if the sleep landed all the time.

[Raksha]

We made an AoE weaponskill that sleeps stuff.

But we don't want you to be able to AoE sleep stuff with a WS.

http://cdn2.planetminecraft.com/files/resource_media/screenshot/1229/troll_2956879_thumb.jpg

[saevel]

We made an AoE weaponskill that sleeps stuff.

But we don't want you to be able to AoE sleep stuff with a WS.

http://cdn2.planetminecraft.com/files/resource_media/screenshot/1229/troll_2956879_thumb.jpg

Yes it's kinda stupid. Personally they should just change the WS to deal better AoE damage or something, maybe with additional effect stun like WoR has.

[Rambus]

http://ffxi.gamerescape.com/wiki/Pinecone_Bomb

No that is dark based, you can't sleep dark immune stuff with that. (Bones are dark immune, ghosts are dark RESISTANT)

It has been a while since I played and tested that but I know that has an element.

I will second the guy you posted, there is no such thing as a non-elemental sleep or non-elemental for any kind of de-buff.

[Camosan]

The fact that they replied to this idiot's post at all is almost as bad as the content of the actual reply was. This thread is just a pathetic display of failure all around.

That fact that you, and the three people who liked your post, didn't take the time to read the thread and realise it was recognised as a troll by both the community and the DEV team strikes me as a little idiotic actually...

[Caketime]

We made an AoE weaponskill that sleeps stuff.

But we don't want you to be able to AoE sleep stuff with a WS.

http://cdn2.planetminecraft.com/files/resource_media/screenshot/1229/troll_2956879_thumb.jpg

Yet, I can Sheep Song all day with Nazuna. Granted it deals no damage, but it's still a TP based aoe sleep. In b4 dev reads this post and ninja nerfs BST. Again.

[Plasticleg]

Yet, I can Sheep Song all day with Nazuna. Granted it deals no damage, but it's still a TP based aoe sleep. In b4 dev reads this post and ninja nerfs BST. Again.

no one cares about you or bst.

[Caketime]

Indeed. But why bother mentioning the obvious?

[Ashman]

I have come back to modify my original thought. If making shockwave "relevant" (ie: letting the damage half of the ws actually do damage, or the sleep half actually do sleep) is going to throw the entire game out of balance, could we accommodate the 1 working AOE weaponskill I do have?

Even pre-delve, the best R/E Great Axe (and still today) that Dark Knight had access to was the Vermeil Bhuj from the sandworm in abyssea-tah. I do not see DRK on any of the new wildskeeper, delve, or skirmish GA (or any besides 2 mediocre AH great axes for that matter).

I think that adding DRK to one of the upcoming GA would be most accepted. It would not upset any balances, and be highly situational (similar to what twilight scythe was before it was ruined). Heck, you could even name the great axe "shockwave". :|