Unlike Cecil I'll forever be a Dark Knight~!

[Elexia]

Excuse the title *cough.*

What are my fellow Dark Knights (if any still exist T.T) up to these days and preferred playstyle? I do love my scythe and still working on Redemption, but I feel this job doesn't get enough love lately. I mean I am part of lowmans and the like...but it feels we're not getting enough in terms of scythe.

Yes I know Torcleave or w/e is good and all, but what do you think the job needs in a post Abyssea world?

[Septimus]

Dark Knight is one of the jobs that needs a lot of attention from the Dev team. Out of my jobs, it is the one that is used the absolute least-my DRK still cannot come close to my WAR when it comes to damage.

A critical-hit weaponskill would go a long way to helping to balance out DRK.

[Zicdeh]

A critical hit WS is a stop-gap measure, even more so outside of Abyssea. I've been playing around with a Verethragna Monk outside abyssea, particularly in Salvage (I myself own a Caladbolg) and I can tell you, A critical Hit WS is not going to fix the job if the game ever leaves Abyssea behind as the primary gamestyle.

Honestly though, Dark Knight shouldn't compete against Warrior, Monk and Samurai for the "Top DPS" slot, they should have their own Niche carved. The only way to do that is to make proper use of their natural affinity for Dark Magic, but spells like Absorb-Attribute are certainly not the answer. Endark, dreadspikes and Absorb-TP (Before the nerfs) were examples of Doing Dark Magic right. But whatever the case may be, they have to acknowledge that a Dark Knight casting a spell, is not swinging his/her weapon, so Low-cast time with High recast spells (Stun for example) are key to Dark Knight's magical future.

[Ethalio]

DRK is my second favourite job. I use Greatsword instead of Scythe.

In comparison to other jobs the 2h Abiility is [too weak] in my point of view. It lasts 30 seconds and Scythe/Greatsword average delay is 500, which means you can hit the mob 5-6 times provided that you don't miss. Th idea of draining HP from the mob with every successful hit is nice, but it could become a 20-30 minutes ability and wouldn't break the game balance I think.

[GoBs]

Drk need's to be fix Bad. Its one of the Weak's DD's in the game Dark magic Suck's! I get a few TP from casting a T1 Spell! Its not going to make ppl play The job that can put up alot of DMG on War,Sam,Mnk. I have a Redemption Its the best DMG Scythe in the Game atm But Still does not Help Drk Become one of the Top DD's or Anything. Help Drk out!

[Septimus]

A critical hit WS is a stop-gap measure, even more so outside of Abyssea. I've been playing around with a Verethragna Monk outside abyssea, particularly in Salvage (I myself own a Caladbolg) and I can tell you, A critical Hit WS is not going to fix the job if the game ever leaves Abyssea behind as the primary gamestyle.

Honestly though, Dark Knight shouldn't compete against Warrior, Monk and Samurai for the "Top DPS" slot, they should have their own Niche carved. The only way to do that is to make proper use of their natural affinity for Dark Magic, but spells like Absorb-Attribute are certainly not the answer. Endark, dreadspikes and Absorb-TP (Before the nerfs) were examples of Doing Dark Magic right. But whatever the case may be, they have to acknowledge that a Dark Knight casting a spell, is not swinging his/her weapon, so Low-cast time with High recast spells (Stun for example) are key to Dark Knight's magical future.

It is a stop-gap, but at this point almost anything would help.

DRK should be a top-tier damage job, it is supposed to be a melee version of a glass cannon. DRK seems to be one of the jobs that Square isn't very sure how to handle, they gave us Occult Acumen but it is fairly worthless. They gave us Endark, but that stops things like "Death" from the Twilight Scythe from working. Really, the absorb spells should have nearly instant cast times to make them useful- maybe with a job ability like "Dark Alacrity" that lowers the casting time for Dark Magic, but doesn't affect the recast like Fast Cast would.

[Draylo]

There was also a stronger emphasis on sacrificing HP to deal damage in the older games. Only have one ability in this game that does that. Could implement more abilities of that nature.

[Unctgtg]

I am a lifetime Drk and work to get the most out of the job.

I do agree this job needs a major overhaul. ESP relics.

[Gamiina]

Hey, I'v been a Drk since NA release, and just wanted to throw in my idea and sum up the ideas ive really liked so far.

-Zicdeh sorta hinted that Absorb spells and possibly future spells should have very short casting time.

I really strongly agree but I also think that Drk needs a little boost in the Magic Accuracy of these spells. I would certainly cast more if those spells were more accurate and shorter cast times.

-Draylo said "stronger emphasis on sacrificing HP to deal damage" with abilities.

I have always thought the same thing, however having leveled a few Healing jobs myself i can honestly say its not practical to have someone using Soul Eater full time without Blood Weapon.

what about an ability like Hasso (since SE loves to give jobs 'modes' nowadays) that would increase your damage significantly or crit rate and crit damage and would either lower your maximum HP or cause you to take extra damage (Like some Equipment does)

-Septimus mentioned a Crit-hit Weapon Skill (IE: Raging Rush, ect...)

Again I agree but what about if that weapon skill also imbued Amnesia or stun? It could have a very short Duration at 100tp possibly 2-3 seconds and increase by 1-3 seconds at 200% and 300%

Guillotine and Gekko do Silence and Kasha does Paralyze in this manner. And these are all main Damage weapon skills so why not another one?

This would give us a crit WS and be useful in abyssea and everywhere else too.

- Lastly a bit of a complaint. I realize that Scythe is the Mainstay weapon of the Dark Knight but i have seen a trend for SE to really ignore Great Sword. For example the Mythic weapons obviosly had a weapon for each job and not one for each weapon type. However this has continued into abyssea, there are many good scythes from abyssea and even one from Shinryu, however aside from the Caladbolg there really hasn't been a significant Great Sword.

Dont read from this that i don't use Scythe, however i just enjoy using scythe or great sword whichever i feel is better suited to the fight or whatever strikes my fancy.

[Seoha]

We clearly have a problem with Dark Knight here, dear SE, and I hope you're all aware of that.

I'm running out of reasons to play DRK very often lately, even though I love the job and refuse to quit.

If the intention of Dark Knight is to use more spells, then I don't understand the Absorb-TP tone down.
If it's supposed to be a physical damage dealer, well we're not doing a very good job at all.

Occult Amen returning 1~3 TP per cast? I'd rather not cast and swing again. After all life of a DD is a race for 100 TP and ws when the circumstances allows you.

Suggestion to fix DRK?
Make Guillotine (possibly with better mods, 25% STR is very bad nowadays), Insurgency or Torcleaver critical hit.
Or in some way buff Last Resort by cutting a bit the recast time or increasing effect time. I don't know, the way things are going without a critical hit ws the only way to catch up to the other jobs is have a 3 min last resort recast, 3 min duration at lvl 5 desperate blows to even THINK of catching up to other jobs.

We need rawr and sheer strength otherwise one day we'll all fall into "Why did you invited a DRK? Just grab a WAR or something".

[Armangetto]

Like some of you Ive been a dark knight since the NA release, and love the job through the thick and the thin. I argee that this job needs some major balancing. Here are my views on how they can improve drk (sorry if some of these suggestions are from other people).

Most of are spells are crap or dont have a use in casting.

For absorbs to be useful again (with the exception of absorb tp), they should NOT decay from the player, but let it decay from the mob. Doing this will make people want to use the spells again, mostly absorb str or ws mods for higher ws dmg. Also this could make the black gear useful again. Also absorb haste would be great.

Drain 3 would be nice. As well as other <insert drk based dmg dealling spells here>.

Remove the slower casting and increased casting time when subing /sam, EXECEPT when casting shadows. Subing sam helps us dmg wise but hurts us the most when we are trying to cast magic. Also we are the only melees that cast magic, well... execept ninjia I guess... (Yes I know turn off hasso and segian when casting....)

The elemental spells are worthless and take too long to cast to justify casting them. Also the dmg is too low to even bother with them.

A wider selection of Enfeables. All we have is posion,1,2,ga, bind, sleep,1 and 2.

As for Job ablities.

Increase blood weapon to 1 minute.

Make last resort 1 to 3 minutes. Adjust the despreat blows ja haste acordingly. Its only real use is during weapon skills. Increasing the duration will help our over all damage, dps and ws.

I think dark knights should get a natural Job trait that lets us drain hp when dealing melee damage, like dancers and their somabas or like the death scythe. Now to make it blanaced. Make it so it only works sometimes like the activation rate of Wars retaliation. They could make it so you can boost up the activation rate through existing job merits or job merits group 3. This will help drks servive longer,(maybe by a few seconds...) not as much mp from mages to heal us, and could help with hp loss from soul eater.

Finally our weapon skills need a major overhaul.

As mention by numerous people, our weapon skill damange pales in comparsion to other jobs in Abyssea. Im not sure how our weapon skill damange is outside of Abyssea, I think its fairly balanced, dont quote me on that.

Either give and or change one of the existing weapon skills to critial hit for abyssea, or boost up the mods so it will be comparable, but prefearably stronger than the current top melee jobs.

Those are my views on how dark knight should get blanced.

[Ash]

I think bringing Last resort duration back into the 2min duration range would be a great way to start seeing its meritable already and if i remember correctly wayyyyy back in the days it used to last 2mins.

[Seoha]

Guillotine is still, in my opinion, one of the weakest multi hit ws's in the game. 25% str / 25% mnd, at 0.85% on 100%.
Compare it to:

Drakesbane:
STR50%
100TP: 1.0 (+10% crit hit ws)

Raging Rush
STR 35%
100TP: 1.0 (+10% crit hit ws)

Rampage
STR: 30%
100TP: 0.50 (+10% crit hit ws)

Penta Thrust
STR: 20%
100TP: 1.0 (5 hit ws)


...and so on.

[Kagato]

If you don't mind, I'd like to make another topic dedicated to being a collection of our ideas in one simple-to-find place for any SE staff to see. It'll be obvious what the topic is about, but will contain all our ideas in one single library of suggestions.

I'll of course link the ideas to their source posts so everyone will get credit. Also, I hope people will still make topics like these to openly discuss new ideas, otherwise the topic I make will get cluttered, haha.

[Elexia]

Guillotine is still, in my opinion, one of the weakest multi hit ws's in the game. 25% str / 25% mnd, at 0.85% on 100%.
Compare it to:

Drakesbane:
STR50%
100TP: 1.0 (+10% crit hit ws)

Raging Rush
STR 35%
100TP: 1.0 (+10% crit hit ws)

Rampage
STR: 30%
100TP: 0.50 (+10% crit hit ws)

Penta Thrust
STR: 20%
100TP: 1.0 (5 hit ws)


...and so on.

Not to mention Insurgency is just..weird at times. If they made it crit based all's well that ends well on our scythe multihit weapon skill.

[Trauma]

Hey Dark Knights! Keep on rockin!!

[Godofgods]

life time drk myself, but if you want proof that drk is in trouble, read this. The overwhelming majority of abyse pt's will request my drk coming /whm. (with refresh (MM, ambision) atmas). Cuase im actuly more usefull as a gimp healer then trying to be a DD drk.... if that doesnt tell u soemthings rong...

[Quetzacoatl]

I would figure before SE decides to boost Guillotine, Quietus should get a boost as well. MND being a modifier for DRK weapon skills is all too awkward.

[Kagato]

IMO, we should get a weapon skill at level 99. A 4 or 5-fold attack that deals critical damage. The modifiers should be STR and DEX.

Maybe call it Infinity Scythe or Eradication or something.

[Emitremmus]

I would personally like to see better GS WS. It seems like it's one of the only weapons to not get more than a 2-hit WS. I do not know much more of DRK beyond 70, but it sure seems that everyone here is upset with its performance. DRK seems to rely much too much on the dark and dreary theme. I think what would really help DRK is a JT along the lines of "Kick Attacks" or "Double Attack". Something a little extra that the DRK can do from time to time to further its uniqueness and allow more DD potential.

[Armangetto]

Shouldnt we be hitting 400 skill or close to it this coming update? We could see a new weapon skill or more than likely at 99. Though I belive at 300, 290 for A- was our last skill earned ws.

[Quetzacoatl]

From what I've played around with and what I've heard, DRK seems more or less better off using Great Sword in Abyssea than any kind of Scythe. DRKs have even gone as far as to use Rampage (a weapon BSTs are better off using) in Abyssea because of the better modifiers built for damage dealing in comparison to using Scythe...which also suffers from being a slow weapon that can't keep up with Razed Ruins Atma THFs constantly triple attacking for 150+ damage per hit. It's just vague in knowing what the point in using Scythe is when it can't even keep up.

The other issue is how DRK has not really developed outside of really pushing itself to obtain the best possible weapons and gear such as Apocalypse. Ironically, the perk to its Aftermath effect has become less unique with the release of more gear haste to cap the job out on Gear Haste. Instead, the aftermath should become Job Ability Haste (i.e. Hasso), so it can flesh out more of the weapon.

[Kagato]

I was going to make a new topic, but I'll just post here. These are my top 5 ideas that would boost up a Dark Knight's overall ability in today's game and will NOT affect game balance.

5. More Dark Magic enfeeble spells for Dark Knights only. There are many abilities that can be made into Dark Magic and could also be useful. Curse, Terrify, Amnesia just to name a few. Also, having Bio III wouldn't hurt.

4. Lower casting time for Dark Magic only. It's our main magic ability and to take a long time just to cast an "absorb" spell really hinders our ability to even include magic at all. I hardly see any Dark Knights casually casting any "absorb" spell anymore.

3. A longer duration of Last Resort. It's short effect time and long recast time makes it a lot weaker than it could be. I don't suggest making it as long-lasting as berserk, but make it around 2 minutes with a 5 minute recast (lowered by merits of course).

2. A weapon skill that can compete with weapon skills used by Warriors and Samurai. Something that uses Modifiers Dark Knights get the most use out of, such as STR and DEX. Whether it is Critical, multi-hit or both, we need something that competes with the stronger weapon skills out there.

And the number 1 thing that a Dark Knight needs the most....

1. More defensive options. A lot of times, Dark Knights are asked to stay out of many events because Dark Knights "die too quickly." Sadly, this is correct. However, I may have a solution. Right now, a Dark Knight does have defensive options against Physical damage in the form of Dread Spikes and we also use a Samurai subjob all the time now, giving us Seigan and Third Eye, but we have nothing to protect us against magic. The only way to do so is to be a DRK/NIN and use Utsusemi, but that hinders our overall power by reducing our damage output and strength. We need to be DRK/SAM to keep up with other jobs in damage-dealing while retaining some defensive qualities as well. I hate to say it, but a Dark Knight is a lot more reliant on it's subjob than most other classes.

Therefore, some kind of job ability or dark magic spell that can absorb or reduce magical damage would be a great asset and help Dark Knights a lot. I'm not asking to turn Dark Knights into a tank class. However, allowing us to live longer on a battlefield full of powerful magical enemies would allow us to engage more enemies safely and reliably. It doesn't have to be fully overpowered. Maybe a Dread Spikes style spell that absorbs magical spells and converts 0% of the damage dealt into MP. So instead of taking 600 damage from Fire V, Dark Knights absorb it for 60 MP.

[Gradd]

Drk has all the Same Defensive Gear as PLD Valhalla/IronRam Etc.

Lrn2GearSwap

Drk was actually a very powerful tank pre abyssea, more so than PLD, to say otherwise your just fooling yourself.

[NeoLionheart]

Drk has all the Same Defensive Gear as PLD Valhalla/IronRam Etc.

Lrn2GearSwap

Drk was actually a very powerful tank pre abyssea, more so than PLD, to say otherwise your just fooling yourself. ^ This and Stun. Although a lot of things these days are immune eh?

[Elexia]

^ This and Stun. Although a lot of things these days are immune eh?

Or highly resistant to the point it's just not worth even trying to use.

[Quetzacoatl]

Drk has all the Same Defensive Gear as PLD Valhalla/IronRam Etc.

Lrn2GearSwap

Drk was actually a very powerful tank pre abyssea, more so than PLD, to say otherwise your just fooling yourself.

Quoted for truth. This is, of course, considering the DRK has an Apocalypse.

[Kagato]

So people are agreeing with Gradd, only to turn around and say "But then again, it's only if...."

[Quetzacoatl]

So people are agreeing with Gradd, only to turn around and say "But then again, it's only if...."

Actually, DRK can tank just as well with DRK/NIN and stunning, along with using enmity-spiking JAs such as Last Resort and Souleater. Though the best case scenario for it is when your DRK has an Apocalypse for Catastrophe spam.

Increasing the effects of Dread Spikes does sounds like something that should be taken into consideration, and perhaps give a Physical Damage Taken -% effect on top of it when using Bale Cuirass +1/2.

[Rezeak]

I agree DRK can tank (not better than a PLD lol) but it requires the sacrificing of /SAM imo and since we're so rely /SAM to try and keep up with other DDs. Honestly idc about defense stuff tho cause imo DRK is a knight that sacrifices it's defense for attack.

[Kagato]

Well 95% of the DRKs on any server don't have Apocalypse. I, honestly, don't have one either. I have a Twilight Scythe and working on Redemption.

Also, yes. DRK/NIN can tank...but so can many jobs /NIN. My point is a DRK loses a lot of potential when doing anything that isn't /SAM. Also, I'll be honest with you. DRK isn't really the go-to job when alliances are looking for someone to tank an NM in Abyssea. Outside of Abyssea, everything is weak enough to be handled by any job as a tank other than some of the biggest HNMs around there.

Still, my whole point wasn't about DRKs having the ability to tank or not. It was about having another defensive ability to use when we need it. We have Dread Spikes for the occasions we need to take physical damage and survive for a while. Why not have something that does the same thing, but for magic? That's all I was saying. :/

[Quetzacoatl]

Ah, okay. I was just skimming through the thread, so I probably missed a few details. Also, I edited my previous post with an idea.

[Kagato]

I saw, and that's not a bad idea either. I mean if the developers want us to be a powerful melee class that uses magic, we should have magic that really benefits our ability to melee and survive while using melee. We're not Black Mages or Red Mages.

[Seoha]

We're Dark Knights, not Dark Mages.
I realize we're a hybrid class, but right now we're a hybrid of something trying to be divided by zero.

I completely agree with Kagato. If we are to use spells, by the end of the fight the spellcasting should've completely aid us to defeat the target, or help us survive.

[Kagato]

Thank you for the support ^_^

[Cruentus]

I'd like to link to a thread I started (because I'm an idiot and didn't look for threads here first) right here. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/949-Dark-Knights-Elemental-Magic?p=5659#post5659)

In addition, I like the critical damage weapon skill and Last Resort ideas. I still think giving us either Fast Cast or a dark magic-exclusive version of Fast Cast would help our spells a lot. Then it's just a matter of giving us more physical power. I am honestly sick and tired of everyone valuing the samurai over the dark knight, just because of its shiny little ability to spam weapon skills.

[Lexin]

I use to consider myself a DRK lifer but not anymore. I keep trying to enjoy it like I did pre-abyssea but it just is not the same. I even leave the game for months with hopes that DRK would get better after updates and they don't. I just started playing again a couple days ago and just can't get into the game like I could a year ago. unless SE does something drastic with the next update for DRK then I just can't see myself playing anymore.

Been told to try other jobs and I have got PLD up to 85 and SAM up to 59 other jobs scattered between level 10 and 45. But at the end of the day DRK was the job for me in FFXI and feels like it has been taken away from me.

[Kagato]

What the developers don't realize is we're basically limiting our own potential because we have skills that are too weak, too short, or too situational.

They may think we have powerful abilities that keep us balanced with other jobs, but Last Resort is too short, Souleater is too situational (really only used with Blood Weapon anymore), and our strongest scythe weaponskill is weaker than the average, common weaponskill from other jobs.

Sure, we have Endark to give us some extra damage, but even that has a negative effect to it. If the weapon you use has it's own ability, such as Twilight Scythe's "Death" ability, Endark takes over that effect! Absorbs take too long to cast and anything that isn't Dark Magic is useless to us.

Dark Knights are weak because everything we do is situational as opposed to every other melee job, and when we can do something, 9 times out of 10 it's because we can stun the target and at this point, Blue Mages and Red Mages are preferred to even do that!

The first step in the right direction, IMO, is to make Last Resort longer and to give us a good, current weaponskill. Infernal Scythe was a joke and Quietus is just a slightly beefed up Guillotine that can only be obtained from Redemption or that WoE weapon. Sucks that even Quietus is outperformed by the average DD weaponskill >.>

Bah. I'm just ranting about things that have already been mentioned. Sorry, folks.

[Gamiina]

i wouldn't apologize for ranting, in this case it shows you have an emotional investment in what your talking about.

At this point i just cannot fathom that SE could NOT have some kind of adjustment in works for Drk.

I honestly believe its just a matter of what and how much.

Will it be too little or even worse... will it be something that is just not usefull.

[Seoha]

i wouldn't apologize for ranting, in this case it shows you have an emotional investment in what your talking about.

At this point i just cannot fathom that SE could NOT have some kind of adjustment in works for Drk.

I honestly believe its just a matter of what and how much.

Will it be too little or even worse... will it be something that is just not usefull.

Hi, my name is Occult Amen and I'm a part of your life now.
Please do not make fun of me~

[Cruentus]

Hi, my name is Occult Amen and I'm a part of your life now.
Please do not make fun of me~

It's called Occult Acumen. Acumen is keen insight or shrewdness. In other words, dark knights are quite shrewd in the occult. I just thought I'd point that out, since the in-game lore interests me.

[Seoha]

It's called Occult Acumen. Acumen is keen insight or shrewdness. In other words, dark knights are quite shrewd in the occult. I just thought I'd point that out, since the in-game lore interests me.

Oh snap! I need to learn2read!
Thanks for the heads up.

*edit*
ugh, I spelled wrong in all posts! but I'm too lazy to correct them D: !!!

[Vitrum]

I fully acknowledge that I am failing to add any substantial input to the conversation.

Every single time I see the words "Job" and "Adjustments" near each other in an update announcement, I get unreasonably excited. "This might be the time DRK gains a purpose!" It never fails to be the case that I am woefully disappointed.

Ultimately I remain confused as to what purpose the developers have in mind for this beloved job.

[NeoLionheart]

I fully acknowledge that I am failing to add any substantial input to the conversation.

Every single time I see the words "Job" and "Adjustments" near each other in an update announcement, I get unreasonably excited. "This might be the time DRK gains a purpose!" It never fails to be the case that I am woefully disappointed.

Ultimately I remain confused as to what purpose the developers have in mind for this beloved job. Amen brother.

[Colenzo]

Make Quietus crit and put a crazy mod on it.
Give DRK some actual elemental skill.
Increase the duration on last resort.
Make absorb spells worth using.

Derp

[Siros]

Amen brother.

I second that^^

[Siros]

I fully acknowledge that I am failing to add any substantial input to the conversation.

Every single time I see the words "Job" and "Adjustments" near each other in an update announcement, I get unreasonably excited. "This might be the time DRK gains a purpose!" It never fails to be the case that I am woefully disappointed.

Ultimately I remain confused as to what purpose the developers have in mind for this beloved job.

Highly agree an feel what u mean.