Feedback for Bst zoning jug-pets

[Psxpert2011]

Beastmasters are getting the short straw for traveling with their companion when times are tough enough.

Check into it and fix this 'bug'. We aren't all rich bst to spend on either mats(or time)to make jugs, just so we can be restricted to one zone. Some of us (like me) can't cook and don't have the patience for crafts. I do my best in farming easy-to-get mats so a friend can craft me the jugs but thats besides the point.

Why do jug-pet's disappear for good between zones but NPC fellows are fixed? Is there a problem here?

[Mavrick]

This has already been debated to death...
Like Here (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/20129-Beastmaster-unfair-disadvantage)

Developer response:

Greetings!

I’d like to give some feedback in regards to pet behavior when changing areas and kicking off confrontations.

• Area Changing with Charmed Pets
Monster data is managed in each area and since it cannot carry over to other areas, system-wise it is just not possible to do this.

• Differences between pet behavior when changing areas
Wyvern, automatons, and adventuring fellows all have long recast times and if they didn’t carry over between areas, it would be quite a large penalty. Based on this, they will not disappear when changing areas.

On the other hand, familiar pets and avatars use jugs and cost MP so the penalty is not as large. With familiar pets, you spend money on jugs to gain fighting power, which is essentially the same as other consumables like ammunition.
With that said, it is technically possible; however, in the case that pets did not disappear when changing areas, the cost of using that pet to its full extent would be increased (the cost of the jug).

• Dynamis Confrontations
The ability to adjust settings for support job restrictions is a special feature of Dynamis, and the behavior from other Dynamis confrontations differs. As a result of investigating, it seems like it is possible to make them all unified, so we are currently working on addressing this.

After this change, when confrontations begin pets will no longer disappear.

Currently this adjustment will only take place for Dynamis confrontations. The reason for this being that it is not desirable that the same content isn’t uniform, so there is no problem changing this specifically for Dynamis. However, this behavior is something that has been necessary from the start, so please understand that it will not be possible to do this for the entire game.

I think its pretty useless trying to get them to change their minds but if you insist, you might find better success by adding to the thread from the link I posted rather than starting a completely new thread on a dead topic.

[Caketime]

This request is a good one, but the devs want us to spend more gil in order to make up for the fact that nobody wants us in their party. This and our 85-99 abilities are the final remnants of the Ginger Curse we've been dealing with since day one, and this particular aspect of that is not likely to ever go away or "get better". I'm pretty sure the quoted post was from that thread where Camate tried to say that SMN and PUP also have to re-summon their Avatars and Automatons when zoning to support the dev team's insistence that barance must be preserved by forcing us to spend gil to be an inferior DD/completely undesirable job for literally every event. Hilariously, Camate's argument was untrue and we let him know about his mistake repeatedly. I don't think he ever posted in that thread again.

Increased jug cost is a non-issue either way, but would be much more acceptable if it were possible to zone with our jug pets like every other pet job. Our timer isn't as short as Camate claims either, with all of the situations in which our pets are forced to de-pop we're useless until that timer is refreshed, which almost always ends with us getting floored in a classic FU move by SE. I'm anticipating the announcement where they tell us that BST is going to be deleted and all future man hours that would have been spent on BST will now be utilized to make hats to be handed out to all JP attendees of future SE fan festivals.

[Glamdring]

yep, bst does frequently get the shaft. The quality of bandwagon beasts certainly doesn't help our cause (except that with the numbers of them jugs seem to be in great supply, unlike ranger ammo as an example). All our stuff that we actually use only stacks to 12, despite being encouraged to blow through a ton of it-like your zoning pet issue-so our inventories are shot all to hell. career beasts are lumped in with the bandwagon beasts such that quality players still get no party love-granted, from a hate control/TP feed aspect a party is often a DETRIMENT to beast playstyle.

so, given the developmental history of beast I expect your thread will go directly where all the other threads on this and other inequities beast suffers have gone so far... nowhere.

[Psxpert2011]

Yes, I see and understand all too much and I wouldn't be so bitter if they keep making excuses why Bst can't zone their pets. Either the case, I still want to fight for Bst justice and if it has to be redesigned from the ground up, so be it as long as the abilities are still there and all jug-pets can zone.

:)

The most this world has gone through is changes, so I don't see why bst can't have a change of their own. I'm standing up for bst and the discrimination against them/ their pets. I thank you all for your post and your supporting info and references. I just see that the job and it's privileges are being weighed in the balance and that's why they don't allow the freedom for bst to zone their pets, very discriminatory.

Next question is: Do you think the augmentation of the bst job should be done to its pet system or the job entirely? Reduce the recast time of call beast, time the pet is out, the easiness to farm the mats for each jug. Should the level of cooking for each just be reduced?

Point: What resolve can be made to allow bst pets to zone?

[Elphy]

Jugs are/were a suppliment. Originally were something you used in emergencies or when there were no charmable mobs as charming was whats bsts did before aby if they wanted to deal out any decent dmg (chaining 9 solo was entirely common for a good bst soloing exp with charmed pets) and also why bst was horrid in content like dyna and nyzul. Now a majority of bsts have never charmed a single mob outside bunnies in the starter zones.

Its like rng or cor, you have to deal with high cost items to keep the job going if you do not want to craft. Ranged jobs get the shaft more than any other having to constantly buy ammo which is alot higher in cost, depletes much faster and is much more essential than jugs. Hence why they got smart are are getting rid of ammo in xiv :D

So well I can see your point its also the choice you make for playing bst and not crafting, as it is for rng and cor.

[Glamdring]

Yes, I see and understand all too much and I wouldn't be so bitter if they keep making excuses why Bst can't zone their pets. Either the case, I still want to fight for Bst justice and if it has to be redesigned from the ground up, so be it as long as the abilities are still there and all jug-pets can zone.

:)

The most this world has gone through is changes, so I don't see why bst can't have a change of their own. I'm standing up for bst and the discrimination against them/ their pets. I thank you all for your post and your supporting info and references. I just see that the job and it's privileges are being weighed in the balance and that's why they don't allow the freedom for bst to zone their pets, very discriminatory.

Next question is: Do you think the augmentation of the bst job should be done to its pet system or the job entirely? Reduce the recast time of call beast, time the pet is out, the easiness to farm the mats for each jug. Should the level of cooking for each just be reduced?

Point: What resolve can be made to allow bst pets to zone?

When you talk about a redesign of the job you have to take into account that for bst the job IS the pet. Without it we are just a MAJORLY suck-ass warrior. The zoning issue wouldn't BE an issue if we could charm meaningfully in end-game content (we can in 99 GoV, but who does that?) Now, because SE is bound and determined that we will not charm again in meaningful content (unless Seekers is going to fundamentally redo end-game) zoning jugs is SORT-OF an issue. I say sort-of because you can't take a jug into an instance, you have to pop it there, so we'll be burning it anyway.

That being said, they could make pets instance (although to be fair they would have to do the same for ALL other pet jobs, smn and pup have to pop their pets after entry too, not sure with my lvl 1 goon as I never paid attention). So yes, getting Call Beast down to more manageable intervals (something to rival Pup Deus Ex) would certainly be appreciated, but they are more likely to nerf everything else than to give us fast pet calls and being a pup as well I'd raise holy hell about that. So this isn't as easy as it sounds.

Believe it or not, i DO approve of balance, but like most players I can't help but notice we don't have anything like balance between the jobs, hence the pile of disaffected rdms sitting over there on the scrap heap. I'd be VERY careful what I ask for here. Long-time beasts remember the MPK nerfs vividly when this job was almost destroyed. It took SE almost 3 years of adjustments to get us back to a point where we were at least equal to what we were before, and any redesign will probably be a nerf the way other job players whine about us.

I don't want to end on a rant about designed solo jobs vs. designed partiers so I won't, but that is at the core of the inequities-both real and imagined-concerning beasts. If anything, I'm a bit worried since SE said awhile ago (in the smn forums iirc) that they were reexamineing ALL the jobs with strong jobs getting nerfed alot more than weak jobs getting beefed so far (read the umpteen million whines about Embrava and PD as an example). So while I support your cause in theory I'm not ready to be dropping the "liberty or death" rallying cry, since "death" seems the more likely result.

[Leonardus]

BST jugpets should zone with you, because it makes them feel less like an ammo and more like an actual animal following you around.

While we're at it, they should die normally too, not just poof away out of thin air. I've always imagined you're goading something real to your side with the broth, not conjuring an avatar out of nowhere.

I mean what are you? An animal trainer, or a magician pulling pets out of your cabasset?... Please think about the little things sometimes, SE. ;)

[Mayoyama]

If you reread what devs said... what you are basically asking for is to make jugs even harder/more expensive to make in exchange for being able to zone with them?

Bear in mind any increase to expense/effort required by the crafter will directly hit your pockets (and then some).. so while you may "save" a bit of money every now and then by being able to zone with your pets.... you will be paying out the ass to buy the stack of pets in the first place.

Not only that.. if the recipes become too much of a hassle, much fewer people will craft them thus giving a monopoly to the few dedicated crafters, thus even further spikes in prices for jugs.

Be careful what you wish for.

[Caketime]

Newsflash: We already do pay exorbitant amounts for jugs, and most of us have learned how to compensate for that cost. If SE changes recipes just to spite us, it won't matter at this point. We're already used to paying millions in overhead to be subpar.

[Mayoyama]

So you would rather be even more in debt?

Simple solution for having to replace pets... level cooking/synergy and/or use less expensive pets if you know you will be doing lots of zoning and/or make some friends who have cooking levelled and dont mind making for you if you farm the mats for them....

Golden rule of post-aby BST: as long as one jug pet pays for the stack then you're doing it right

EDIT: If SE did their usual "much larger cost for little bonus" then you may find the AH barren of jugs.... and then you really would be up sh*t creek without a paddle

[Caketime]

Never said I was in debt, Gil is easy to make, as are Chef buddies. If SE changes our recipes to the point where nobody will make the jugs, then they will have effectively killed BST and we can all go do something else. I don't think they're that stupid, they like to make decisions to spite players but not in such a blatant "go play another game" sort of way.

I'm really not sure what the issue is that the devs have with us zoning pets, the sole advantage they have over other pet jobs is their HP pool. It's not like we can buff an entire party with Haste, Phalanx, and enhanced movement speed not to mention a horribly broken 2 hour that allows for near 100% damage immunity. Our pets also can't interact with our party in any significant way, we have zero buffs and a heal that requires 3 charges and well over 100 TP for potency. On top of these things, our pets despawn at each zone and whenever we interact with specific event NPCs, so sometimes we lose pets for the sake of losing them. This needs to change, and if SE wants to increase jug prices that's fine. If they go overboard and kill the job, that's fine too, at least we'll know they were against us from the beginning.

E: Not knocking SMN in any way, they're just as broken as we are, barely surviving on occasional scraps and dwelling mostly in Walk of Echoes.

[Mirril]

BST jugpets should zone with you, because it makes them feel less like an ammo and more like an actual animal following you around.

While we're at it, they should die normally too, not just poof away out of thin air. I've always imagined you're goading something real to your side with the broth, not conjuring an avatar out of nowhere.

I mean what are you? An animal trainer, or a magician pulling pets out of your cabasset?... Please think about the little things sometimes, SE. ;)

I always felt calling a jug pet was more of a "spirit animal" type of thing. (Especially since they don't have subjobs like charmed pets do)