To Devs: Salvage / Mythic Suggestion [Archive]

Pewpew

11-23-2012, 05:42 AM

I know you've probably heard this before. But it is currently very hard to obtain mythic weapons than any other weapons in the game(relic and emp included). Dynamis and Abyssea can be done solo or with 1 friend. However Mythics you need at least 3 to enter, 3 to do all assaults, and at 20k gil a piece because of the low supply of alexandrite it costs 550-600m to buy a mythic weapon, and almost a full year of everyday farming to farm one with 3 friends and no buying; not to mention getting captain rank, doing 50 assault logs, 100k einherjar points, 150k nyzul isle points, along with the 3 trophy items.

My suggestion is that one of the following are implemented to at least give players a fighting chance to complete mythics without detication of their entire lives to the game daily playing trying to get 600m worth of alexandrite:

Suggestions:
#1: Lower entrance requirements for normal salvage to 1 player.
#2: Let High Tier VW enemies drop low tier salvage alexandrite pouches(5-20 alex per pouch)
#3: Lower requirement for alexandrite by 1/3rd.
#4: Let ToAu NMs drop Pouches of some sort, giving an alternate means to obtain these without calling 2-3 friends to help you.
#5: or finally make alexandrite drop from ALL enemies in salvage.

These are my suggestions; because unless Neo-Salvage brings so good of gear that everyone will be there farming everyday because the gear is so great and exclusive. Most people will lose interest after a few months and find better gear to farm without salvage, making neo-salvage as common an entrance as Salvage is now(no good gear, and only going for alex).

I sincerely hope you guys fix this difficulty, because it is very unfair to players that don't play day in and day out.

Llana_Virren

11-23-2012, 11:38 AM

Contrary to popular belief, they do not want players to be able to simply buy a mythic or make it within a month or two by soloing.

Some things are -supposed- to take a long time, and it just so happens that Mythic weapons cannot be bought or spammed like an Empy/Relic can. That doesn't mean it should be easy to get.

Ordoric

11-23-2012, 11:49 AM

with all the exceeding expectations to a mythc weps, i dont think alexandrite purchace is all that nuts and the more accessablity there is to it what evers i remeber currency being nuts on remora and leviathan now its spammed daily from people the price dropped. the same is to be exspected of alexandrite this is a free market economey on the serveres its called supply and demand

Monchat

11-23-2012, 06:22 PM

It's been said before but alexandrites are NOT the problem with mythic quests. It's quests like 2x assault clears, nyzul and einherjar 100k point items. Even if you had the money for alexs you still have to wait 6 months to complete the quest. And also, paying a server transfer to buy your alexandrites is going to be cheaper than paying for extra mules to store them/enter salvage 3-man/do severl salvages a day, if you chose to salvage them every day.

Pewpew

11-26-2012, 10:58 AM

Monchat; I don't think you know how mythics are done by your comment about using mules to store alexandrite. You trade them into the npc as you get them. No storage is nessicary unless you are collecting alexandrites without the prerequisites being completed.

It's not about it being hard to complete or not; it's about it being realistic. Everyone has a real life to do. Making it 3 person entrance only and on top of that not much supply; its causing Mythics to be insanely hard to obtain; borderline impossible. Nothing should take 2 years of RL time to complete. This is not a realistic goal for any player at the moment.

Martel

11-26-2012, 11:30 AM

You mule alexandrite rather than trade it in, till you have all 30k. Just in case you lose the will to keep working on it(or the game changes and it's not worth it anymore, etc.) Then you can sell all that alexandrite and do something else instead.

It's just a wise precaution. Just like relics back in the day, You didn't trade anything in till you were about done.

2 years? My alexandrite took 3 months, start to finish.

Monchat

11-27-2012, 02:45 AM

you porbably already had einherjar and nyzul pints/ asault clears.

Martel

11-27-2012, 03:38 AM

I was only talking about alexandrite. As pewpew's post seemed to be implying that Alexandrite was the time consuming/impossible/unreasonable part.

My ichor/nyzul tokens/initial captain rank were an accumulation of years of normal gameplay before I ever started on a mythic. I did still have to go farm extra tokens though. I had a lot of trouble with beast kings too. Spent 7 days straight in gurfulur's room waiting for pop. Similar issue with medusa.

Anyway, difficult is not impossible. As for realistic, I have a Ryunohige. And it was entirely self funded. I didn't even have an event shell at the time.

Pewpew

11-27-2012, 04:21 AM

You obviously didn't farm the alexandrite with only 3 people. We go everyday and our average yield is 70-90 unless boss drops a 100 which is maybe 20% of the time. So average is around 85-105 realistic. But hey, lets call it 100 to be fair. At 100 alexandrite a day it takes you 300 days to complete mythic. This is just for the alexandrite, and that's if you have the mules with access and/or find people nice enough to let you pocket the alexandrite. If you have a linkshell and going with more than 3, or doing multiple runs a day(lets assume you have 6 chars and can go twice a day) that's still 150 days straight of 2 salvages a day solo trio boxing to finish. That's rediculous, wouldn't be as bad if you didn't have to deal with the prereqs on top of all of that. Prereqs + alex together are well over a year.

I don't know your gil situation but you definatly did not farm them daily 7 days a week for 3 months and come out with 30k alexandrite; the math does not add up. If you claiming that you farmed all 30k in 3months that would equate to 357.17 alexandrite per run. So the fact that it took you only 3 months just means you have the gil to flush down the toilet and pay well over 300m on top of farming alexandrite daily for 3 months; or just paying the 600m and buying all your alexandrite and telling everyone you farmed them.

Sorry to go on a rant; but yes; it is very very unreasonable of an achievement for anyone with a real life, unless you don't mind waiting 2years to get one.

detlef

11-27-2012, 05:00 AM

You obviously didn't farm the alexandrite with only 3 people. We go everyday and our average yield is 70-90 unless boss drops a 100 which is maybe 20% of the time. So average is around 85-105 realistic. But hey, lets call it 100 to be fair. At 100 alexandrite a day it takes you 300 days to complete mythic. This is just for the alexandrite, and that's if you have the mules with access and/or find people nice enough to let you pocket the alexandrite. If you have a linkshell and going with more than 3, or doing multiple runs a day(lets assume you have 6 chars and can go twice a day) that's still 150 days straight of 2 salvages a day solo trio boxing to finish. That's rediculous, wouldn't be as bad if you didn't have to deal with the prereqs on top of all of that. Prereqs + alex together are well over a year.I wouldn't advise farming Salvage for alex unless you have a 2-box account. You simply cannot afford to split it with other people. Also, doing Salvage is just one thing you should be doing; in addition you would also want to consider farming Dynamis or something so you can buy more alex.

I don't know your gil situation but you definatly did not farm them daily 7 days a week for 3 months and come out with 30k alexandrite; the math does not add up. If you claiming that you farmed all 30k in 3months that would equate to 357.17 alexandrite per run. So the fact that it took you only 3 months just means you have the gil to flush down the toilet and pay well over 300m on top of farming alexandrite daily for 3 months; or just paying the 600m and buying all your alexandrite and telling everyone you farmed them.He obviously had a lot of gil to start with and likely a steady source of income in addition to that. As I said, Salvage is only part of the equation; you have to find a way to purchase more alexandrite on the side as well.

Martel

11-27-2012, 08:05 AM

Actually, I was pretty low on cash when I'd started. I'd just finished Aegis. So no, I didn't have a big stockpile of gil to start.

Who ever said I farmed all my alexandrite in salvage? I farmed a good amount(I've no idea what actual % was farmed vs bought, though), but I bought as much as I could.

Yeah, if you don't buy alexandrite from others who do salvage, then it certainly is going to take you a long time to finish. But Alexandrite isn't EX or anything(god, that'd be a nightmare.) A lot of ppl do salvage for money. Find them, buy their alex.

Alexandrite production is limited, certainly. But gil is far less limited. Make gil, buy alex. I did daily dynamis, dualboxed. Also did some sky(genbu scraps were amazing for awhile), BCs, and whatever else I could find that had good returns. And do plenty of your own salvage to supplement alex income.

Now, if no one does salvage on your server so there's no supply to buy... yeah, you're screwed. Maybe Neo salvage will increase supply some.

Hohenheim

11-27-2012, 02:06 PM

I made a mythic, graduated from college, and remain in nice physical shape.

Be jelly!

Tennotsukai

11-28-2012, 04:34 AM

Meh...I am rather anti-social on the game. I wouldn't mind the requirements to enter to be lowered to 2, at least. Mythic seems to be harder to obtain than relics so maybe...perhaps something about this should be done. I believe relics outta be the most difficult to obtain.

Sapphires

11-28-2012, 06:35 AM

Monchat

11-28-2012, 09:00 AM

Kincard

11-30-2012, 06:06 PM

This topic is so weird since looking up the OP http://www.ffxiah.com/player/Asura/Ekotren
and finding they have an:
Aegis
Ochain
Mandau
Ragnarok
Amanomurakumo
Gjallarhorn
Almace
Ukonvasara
Kannagi
Gandiva

but says they are casual and finds that mythic requirements are unreasonable.... :p

I lol'd

If you're in the right kind of LS (Basically ADL spam/etc) gil is pretty much never a concern for you, even if you don't play all that much. In these cases the person can complete multiple relics/empyreans but might still have trouble with Mythics because of the cooldown/time invested involved in redoing assaults, einherjar, and nyzul isle over and over, not to mention farming up ZNMs.

I'm not so lucky though. ;(

Jaall

12-01-2012, 07:42 PM

Aren't mythics meant to be harder than relics? Just look at how much more work you have to do to get a mythic compared to relic. Relics involve a lot of currency and 7-9 items that can be relatively easily obtained whereas a mythic involves basically completing ToAU and collecting almost as much alex as dyna currency, considering what you have to do to get them. For example dyna currency drops off every mob, even pre update, now all you need to do is proc and you get 1-5 on every single mob. Also mythic weapons seem better in most cases, take for example Ryunohige - amazing weapon, probably one of, if not the best weapon in the game, compared to relic Gungnir which is outdated even with the 99 upgrade. I just think SE intended the game to be this hard and the way it's going now it's getting too easy. I walk through Port Jeuno and from 1 walk through i see about 20 relics... It's just ruined what having a relic means, whereas you see someone with a mythic and you really respect the person for having one because you know what dedication they've put in. Mythics are the new relics, don't make them too easy because then there's nothing to class as a serious challenge. I like the new content in the game and the fact you can solo the old endgame really makes the game fun for me, but there are things best left in the game and best left very difficult. Otherwise there will be no real achievement in getting one, at least nowhere near as much. I personally love the satisfaction of getting something great in ffxi, if there's no challenge then it takes away all that's great about it because every person and their dog has it already.

Demon6324236

12-01-2012, 09:17 PM

Aren't mythics meant to be harder than relics?In a word, no. Mythics were supposed to be the casual's Relic, instead Relics are now the casual's Relic and Mythics are the hardest thing to get.

Just look at how much more work you have to do to get a mythic compared to relic. Relics involve a lot of currency and 7-9 items that can be relatively easily obtained whereas a mythic involves basically completing ToAU and collecting almost as much alex as dyna currency, considering what you have to do to get them. For example dyna currency drops off every mob, even pre update, now all you need to do is proc and you get 1-5 on every single mob.You are partly correct, it does require more, but originally Dyna was gone into 1 time every 3 days, with a cost to enter, and needed alot of people by compare to Salvage, which cost nothing more than Assault points, a small group of players, and could be gone in daily. The other pieces of content were supposed to be done anyways, such as Assaults and Einherjar, for some of the better items, and for content to complete. Now days things have changed, no one does Salvage so the supply is alot lower, no one has a reason to do Salvage really, and Dyna became much easier and less restricting.

Also mythic weapons seem better in most cases, take for example Ryunohige - amazing weapon, probably one of, if not the best weapon in the game, compared to relic Gungnir which is outdated even with the 99 upgrade.No offense but this is possibly the worse comparison you could make. Ryunohige is a godly weapon because the WS on it is already a beast, its almost as good as Stardiver and even better given you have the right gear and the mobs defense does not cause you problems. Where as Gungnir is bad because its additional effect overwrites Angon which is DRGs most powerful tool in parties and Alliances, let alone much more powerful and has a longer duration I believe. The weapons are somewhat like saying Kenkonken against Vere, where KKK has Stringing Pummel which is again, a beast of a WS that rivals Victory Smite, and KKK easily pushes that way above VS for a PUP, not to mention the fact a PUP can rival even a MNK in damage by that point.

What I mean to say is that your looking at one of the most amazing weapons, against a really bad weapon. Most Mythics are not that great, there are only a handful that are really that amazing. PUP and DRG are the best 2 in my opinion, because they take the job from being an ok DD, to a high tier DD. MNK, BLM, RDM, THF, RNG, SAM, NIN, SMN, BLU, DNC, and SCH, are all either situational or bad so far as I know, leaving WAR, WHM, PLD, DRK, BST, BRD, DRG, COR, and PUP as the only good ones, less than half.

I just think SE intended the game to be this hard and the way it's going now it's getting too easy. I walk through Port Jeuno and from 1 walk through i see about 20 relics... It's just ruined what having a relic means, whereas you see someone with a mythic and you really respect the person for having one because you know what dedication they've put in. Mythics are the new relics, don't make them too easy because then there's nothing to class as a serious challenge. I like the new content in the game and the fact you can solo the old endgame really makes the game fun for me, but there are things best left in the game and best left very difficult. Otherwise there will be no real achievement in getting one, at least nowhere near as much. I personally love the satisfaction of getting something great in ffxi, if there's no challenge then it takes away all that's great about it because every person and their dog has it already.I somewhat agree and somewhat disagree. With the amount of work and time a Mythic makes, its just not right. I understand some people take pride in having something no one else does, or few people can get, but I do not think any weapon or armor should take months at the very least to get, if not years. Assaults must be done twice, that alone means 6 months, not counting the time spent on the Beastmen Kings, the Tokens for Nyzul, the points from Einherjar, all of the work that must go into it is just outrageous.

I felt alot of satisfaction when I got my Excalibur, this was only a few months ago, not back when it was a bitch and alot of time to make one. Even though this is the case, I saw it as just as much as an accomplishment, and felt proud I own one. Perhaps its because I use it in a way I see very few do, or its because its something people told me would be a waste, but I love it. I would like to make a Mythic for my RDM, but the amount of work, and time, that would need be spent on such an endeavor, is just not worth it. The amount of time it asks you to devote is just not realistic in my mind, and it should be changed somewhat. While I do understand your standpoint on it, the fact that only three or four of these weapons are really a massive improvement over what the jobs already have at much easier access, just leaves me with the idea its wrong to keep them how they are.

Jaall

12-01-2012, 10:34 PM

But it makes them exclusive. I completely understand why you think that but seriously just go for the good mythic weapons and forget the useless. Weapons can be situational and some of them are worthless however some are godly and yes they are hard to get but they are better. If you're serious about this you would say, leave WAR, WHM, PLD, DRK, BST, BRD, DRG, COR, and PUP as they are and make the others easier, but then you'd have to create all new quest lines and new requirements for what is essentially very old content, and would take up too much of SE's time when they could spend it doing more efficient changes.

There would be nothing stopping you deciding to go for ryunohige over say mnk's mythic. It is simply preference but then you wouldn't be complaining that it's so difficult. The only reason you'd complain is if you wanted one of the good ones which in this case is probably better than relic, so i agree with them being harder. And so what if it takes a long time to get a mythic, the rewards will come with it and the idea of relics and mythics was to take a year to complete, that's just how it is. Final Fantasy games have always been very challenging to complete, and i see these weapons as the 100% mark, if you have a mythic you can happily say you've done the majority of the game, just like in previous Final Fantasy titles where getting 99 and beating ultima/omega was considered "end game". It takes time but SE count on that to keep players active, and to keep the dedicated, elite players happy.

Basically mythic weapons are fine as they are and if they aren't better than relic then there's no point doing them so why do you care if they are harder to get? If they're godly (which some are) then it'll be worth the effort, I just think that because SE have made relics easy to get and you have one, you're a little hurt because they aren't actually the best and the best takes a lot more time (relics took longer to get back in the day). I personally know i'm never gonna be the best so i've given up trying, instead happy to work on gungnir no matter how terrible it is, simply because I love drg, which is my opinion on how the game should be played. Everyone has their opinions, it's what keeps the world going, be boring without them, but if the game gets too easy it takes away everything that makes Final Fantasy so great and limits replay ability.

Jaall

12-01-2012, 10:53 PM

Oh also I just wanna say I do completely agree with you, it does take a lot of time, and I know I would never in a million years own a ryunohige, i'm just saying I don't think it should be changed. There should always be that 1 weapon in the game that only a handful of people own. It just makes people stand out and looks amazing when you see it, almost like fame in FFXI. Everyone knows who owns a mythic and I think it makes it a little more realistic, as much as a game can be realistic. I know it's just a game and that's the reason i'd never put all that effort in, but if you talk to a real celebrity, the majority will say it took a lot longer than 6 months. You get fake celebrities who go on reality shows and jump up really quick but there's no satisfaction. That can be related to people who buy Gil for their relics/mythics!

Demon6324236

12-02-2012, 02:01 AM

I would say the one in a handful of people thing is more for VW weapons than for Relic/Mythic/Emp but thats mostly luck anyways. In either case while I understand your point, its not as simple as saying to ignore all of the bad ones. I for instance want the RDM Mythic because its a god for Enfeebling and Convert, is it worth a Mythic's level of work? No way in hell, its barly better than the ToM staves. This does not mean the weapon should be unobtainable because Ryuno is godly and worth it, or Kenkonken is either, it should be good, and worth the effort needed, but the level thats needed is only worth it for some. Its much the same as how if you look at Emps, Vere are amazing, but weapons like the Polearm and Redemption are worthless by compare, even though they are on all of the same NMs. Its really poor balancing in my opinion, and they should at least fix that aspect, if not make Mythics easier as a whole.

Jaall

12-02-2012, 02:22 AM

They wont make mythics easier to obtain due to the sheer power of the few that are good, but they wont make the ones that are bad easier because that would take too much work so I reckon they'll just keep it the same. And the vw weapons aren't better than relic/mythic and are a whole lot easier to obtain, just takes time. DMG is still less and they don't have aftermath or hidden effects or even extra ws's, just have some nice standard effects and are shiny lol. It's pretty easy really, if you want rdm weapon that bad, work for it, if you don't want to work for it, it's not worth it. Best you can do is ask SE to lessen the effects slightly of the mythic and add it as an effect on a drop from legion etc. There's no reason to change mythics because the minority think it's unfair for them to take so long to get when that was the idea in the first place. Also I doubt they'll make mythics like the rdm sword any better because they've been around for years now and nobodies complained, they just simply don't go for them.

MarkovChain

12-02-2012, 02:28 AM

All the mythic suck, there is no risk of imbalance.

Demon6324236

12-02-2012, 03:15 AM

Ryuno and KKK do not suck...

Monchat

12-02-2012, 10:02 AM

KKK is comparable to verethragna, and yes ryunohige is a god tier weapon for DRG, but not a god tier weapon across jobs. It is average. It just means Relic polarm (and DRG jobs generally) sucks. Only Koga is god tier.

Most DD mythics do comparable damage during AM3 (withing a margin of 10~20% of each other I believe) except GK, which is god tier. And this is why they suck: in order to maintain am3 you have to lower your damage output.

Demon6324236

12-02-2012, 10:25 AM

Well the point of comparing a weapon is to compare it to other things the same job can use, not against all other items. This is why KKK & Ryuno are awesome, they stand way above other options for the jobs that can use them, that is why they are actually good and worth it, the others are not really because they are just another weapon, most of which are either only good for a single effect on them such as Yagrush, or because they are slightly better than the Emp/Relic for the job, which does not make sense when you look at the big picture of their actual cost vs the very little gain. KKK & Ryuno are basically the only really good weapons for their jobs, or are at least the be all end all of them, which is the only reason they are worth the effort.

Jaall

12-02-2012, 06:37 PM

I don't understand why people class drg as a terrible job without ryunohige tbh, even with relic it's a great job and can out parse a lot of jobs. It's one of those cases where "no emp/relic, no invite" but in this case it's with mythic, which is the reason why this games beginning to lose it's fun. There shouldn't be the need to be amazing only good and know what you're doing. Drg with relic 95 can do as much if not more than most dd's due to the amount of ws's you can put out, the jump damage, conserve tp, wyvern damage and just standard attacks being high. Yea it doesn't do as high damage with ws's as say war with Ukon but then i've seen ukon war's completely fail because they don't know how to play their job. All I see is this game turning more into WoW everyday because it's all based on getting the best gear to zerg things and losing the strategy part. I say good on SE to nerf SMN and SCH because of this very reason. At least they're aiming to keep it away from most MMO's and stay strategy based. Point is, they make these weapons easy to obtain, so everyone gets them regardless of knowing how to play the job, which leads to them getting invites to zergs because there is no strategy involved in a zerg - which in turn takes the fun and achievement away from defeating bosses, especially for the people who know how to play their job well, get called a loser pretty much for not having a relic and not getting invited to anything. *rant over*

MarkovChain

12-02-2012, 06:57 PM

Ryuno and KKK do not suck...
They suck, I mathed them on BG. The DPS they can do during AM3 is = to ukkon's war. The problem is that you have to waste a lot of damage to build 300 tp.

Demon6324236

12-02-2012, 07:03 PM

Yeah, because Ukon WAR sucks.

MarkovChain

12-02-2012, 07:21 PM

You are slow. If they equal an ukkon war during their AM3, they do MUCH less damage if you consider that they require to waste 3 ws to reach this point.

Jaall

12-02-2012, 07:30 PM

Demon6324236

12-02-2012, 07:39 PM

Relic sucks for DRG because the additional effect screws your Angon, less of a defense down effect thanks to it overwriting Angon, which can get upto -8% more defense on the mob. I wont say DRG is a bad job, I have seen alot of badass DRGs with both OAT and Relic weapons, even a few with the (terrible) Emp, but it does not change the fact the job by itself is naturally weaker than the other 2-handed DDs. Its like saying my RDM vs a WAR, I have parsed higher than quite a few DDs with my RDM, even though they are Emp/Relic jobs, WAR, MNK, SAM, but really if you look at RDM vs WAR in a normal standpoint, RDM is crushed by its natural stats. Just because I am able to out DD alot of WARs or MNKs, does not mean RDM is normally on par with them, its just that I am a really good RDM, and geared myself to the point I can beat those DDs, at the same point I have had some WARs and MNKs in VW I have watched parse up to 40% on a NM, while I was at 15~20, and I was 2nd place.

What I mean is while DRG is good for some things, and can out DD other jobs, it is not necessarily because the job is naturally better, or equal, but because of your gear being good. Mythic is simply the weapon which actually does escalate the power of the job to a level that it becomes on par with other jobs, even if those other jobs are amazingly geared.

As for content being zergs, it shouldn't be, not much else I can say about that, the content is flawed and should not be zergs only, but I don't think making weapons that take 6 months to make is anything to do with that, nor the ease of the current Emp/Relic weapons. SE for the most part created content that must be zerged, between short time limits, mobs that are to powerful to get hit much if at all, and other things similar to this, they created a problem, we simply reacted in the way we could.

As for the Emp/Relic only crowd, the only content that really needs a Relic is Legion because of the Acc bonus on Relics, anything else people are stupid for asking for that, many times there are other weapons that do comparable damage. For instance my OAT DRK out does alot of Rag DRKs who have Phorcys even though I am running AF3+2 with some AH, Bazaar, or R/EX Aby/VW gear here and there. People who think Emp/Relic=good player are fools, people who shout it often do not care about your Emp or your Relic, they care if you can bring the damage they are looking for, and often thats all that matters to them. I have DDed many times in so called "Emp/Relic" shouts, and they have never had a problem with my Hoarfrost Blade or OAT GS, because I bring more to the table than many people who do have those Emp/Relic weapons.

Demon6324236

12-02-2012, 07:45 PM

Actually a lot of the reason why ryuno > a lot is because i has drakesbane dmg +30% and drakesbane is a fantastic ws on its own. And the occ attacks 2-3 times means you can spam that more than any drk can spam reso and way more than a war can spam ukkosThat and also your jumps which your already using for TP get a massive damage boost on their own. Also believe you can get the OA2~3 to proc on Jumps, though I'm not sure.

Jaall

12-02-2012, 09:43 PM

Yea usually OA2-3 effects jumps so should on ryuno, not sure why it wouldn't, and the augments jump effect makes every jump a crit increasing damage and tp gain. DRG isn't as outright powerful as WAR and DRK etc but if has a lot of nice abilities like angon and a wyvern that can heal so it doesn't need to be. I only defend drg because I personally think it's the best job in terms of fun, it's just a shame it gets looked down upon and I can never use DRG for anything. It's not my only best geared job and I have Calad drk simply for those runs run by fools who assume just because its empty, it's best.

Problem is people don't know much about the game anymore and don't look into the jobs they ask for. They would easily see that oat weapons are better but turn them down because they have no idea. I don't really mind that they're stupid I just don't go with them, but shame the game can't be as fun as it used to be. Unfortunately most of the reason is because of being able to zerg everything but SE are fixing that slowly.

Mythics don't have a part to play in all that, but making relics easier has, because now everybody has one. Because people can shout to zerg an nm and get 10 people with relics means the people who have OAT weapons don't get a chance and makes the whole zerg thing easier. Doing the same to mythics will just make that even worse. I really wouldn't care if they made mythics easier really, I may even be able to get one, I just hope "if" they do, they consider what the long term effect on zerging will be. Relics still aren't "easy" as such, in the fact that it still takes a lot of dedication to dyna, and that's getting stupidly overcrowded to the point where i warped out the other day and thought f**k it. But they're easy enough for 1 in 50 people to get and that makes the game unbalanced to those who don't have the dedication.

My reason for going for gungnir isn't the fact that it's a good weapon, it's the fact that it's a very fun job to play and i've always wanted a relic. I could easily have gone for ragnarok if i wanted to be good but whats the point of being the best if you don't have fun being the best? Also there's an easy way to overcome gungnirs terrible AM... don't use geirskogul! The weapon in itself is always in empy AM, it will always occasionally proc 2.5x dmg just not on ws's so it is still an amazing weapon for those who use it correctly. But... it's no ryuno, that's why it's seen as bad. Also the defense down is always on unlike angon, but SE should address it so that it doesn't override angon. Then if drg does want the extra def down which it should, then they can, but that's a really simple fix and i'm unsure why they won't.

Demon6324236

12-02-2012, 10:51 PM

Probably the same reason as why Excalibur's additional effect is unable to stack with Enspells.

Safiyyah

12-04-2012, 12:28 AM

You are slow. If they equal an ukkon war during their AM3, they do MUCH less damage if you consider that they require to waste 3 ws to reach this point.

It's hard to reach 300 TP on DRG? O_o

Kincard

12-06-2012, 06:47 PM

Pchan's argument doesn't work even if he was right in his assumptions, you might as well say it's fine to make relics easier to get because Claustrum sucks. Doesn't work that way.

Yes, Ryunohige DRG is about on par with a Ukon WAR. That's not the point. The point is that the weapon makes a job that is regularly not even in the same bracket shoot up several places in the DD heirarchy to become competitive. I can't think of any other weapon that does that. Ryunohige is a ridiculously powerful weapon. Don't mistake flaws of the job's design with a flaw of the weapon, this is something pchan has failed to grasp even though people have tried to hammer it into him over the course of several discussions about DPS jobs.

That, and his simulations gears pretty much every job but MNK retardedly.

As for OP:

#1: Lower entrance requirements for normal salvage to 1 player.

Not happening, at least not anytime soon. Aside from Neo salvage being added, the real reason salvage requires 3 people to enter is because of congestion considerations, and the salvage areas arn't really tailored to be redesigned as open-entry normal areas like the Dynamis ones were.

#2: Let High Tier VW enemies drop low tier salvage alexandrite pouches(5-20 alex per pouch)

Not going to happen because Alexandrite has nothing to do with VW. Should be apparent to anybody that knows game lore as far as the the nature of the Alzadaal Undersea Ruins goes. Won't elaboate here since it's technically a spoiler.

#3: Lower requirement for alexandrite by 1/3rd.

Nope

#4: Let ToAu NMs drop Pouches of some sort, giving an alternate means to obtain these without calling 2-3 friends to help you.

The only NM that would make any sort of sense dropping items like this are Armed Gears and maybe Wulgaru. If they ever did it they'd probably make them drop single-piece alexandrite and it wouldn't do anything. Actually, even if they dropped Cotton Coinpurses it probably wouldn't be worth farming them just for the Alex.

#5: or finally make alexandrite drop from ALL enemies in salvage.

Probably not likely. They made gears in salvage all have very different drop rates on alexandrite so they probably weighed it a while before deciding to not have normal monsters in salvage drop the stuff in the first place.

As always, I'm amused by how people who can't complete mythics can't seem to just go get a relic/empyrean instead and feel the need to say that mythics have to be made easier simply for their convenience.

Demon6324236

12-06-2012, 07:40 PM

The point is that the weapon makes a job that is regularly not even in the same bracket shoot up several places in the DD heirarchy to become competitive. I can't think of any other weapon that does that.KKK so far as I know.

Kincard

12-06-2012, 08:28 PM

KKK's great for job functionality but the DPS boon it adds isn't actually a huge boost over Verethragna last I checked. Actually, if anything KKK might actually lower your DPS since the idea is that with it you can maneuver more freely.

As far as Mythic concept goes, I'd say that weapon's the best (only?) example of it, because it actually makes the job better at what it does without being all about pure damage, which was the whole concept of mythics to begin with. In contrast, look at something like Kogarasumaru, which is a really powerful weapon, but it's purely because of the aftermath and how it relates to SAM's natural abilities and not the special stat they put onto it (lolthirdeye).

Demon6324236

12-06-2012, 10:13 PM

I thought between the MA bonus reducing your delay by even more than the weapon itself adds as well as the WS on it being the most powerful PUP WS there is would put it above Vere.

Afania

12-06-2012, 10:33 PM

Why don't we just lv WAR, make a lv 99 ukon and lv 99 rag(which is still cheaper than any Mythic) to fulfill everyday DD needs, and gtfo from pointless Mythic discussion? ;D ;D ;DDDDDDDD

Afania

12-06-2012, 10:45 PM

As always, I'm amused by how people who can't complete mythics can't seem to just go get a relic/empyrean instead and feel the need to say that mythics have to be made easier simply for their convenience.

I don't understand this part either. The only ppl that have right to complain about Mythic difficulties are DRG mains. This job is literally pointless to get invite without Mythic, but with Mythic it's really good due to angon benefiting whole ally.

Every other Mythic totally doesn't add much to your LS for current content. A WAR with 99 Ukon/99 rag should outperform Koga SAM and KKK PUP in current endgame scene last time I checked, what other game breaking Mythic are there? Other Mythics just doesn't add much, so why not just get 99 Ukon/Rag if you have money to toss and want to add more value to your LS?

Other reason I can think of for wanting easier Mythic: 1. You just damn love your PUP SMN DNC BLM SAM etc, even though you know you will job change for events.

2. You want Mythic to show off.

If it's No.2, the moment Mythic lower it's difficulty it losts it's value. If Mythic is made easier, and everyone have one, then showing off won't mean much. You'd want Mythic as hard to get as possible if you want to show off.

If it's No.1, still pretty pointless when ppl gonna bring 99 Ukon+Rag for everything anyways, and doesn't really hurt you without Mythic. If you're not getting invite on DNC or PUP because lv 99 Ukon/rag WAR taking your spot, you're still not going to get invite with a Mythic.

Jaall

12-07-2012, 06:59 AM

Why don't we just lv WAR, make a lv 99 ukon and lv 99 rag(which is still cheaper than any Mythic) to fulfill everyday DD needs, and gtfo from pointless Mythic discussion? ;D ;D ;DDDDDDDD

Sorry just gonna chirp in here, there are quiet a lot of people who play ffxi who have lives which is why not everyone can can make a lvl 99 ukon/rag. I know this discussions mainly about mythics/relics etc but the majority of players can only make 1, and want to have fun playing the job they like, not a job they don't like. It seems like you're the type of person who won't invite if no relic/emp, as you said drg is pointless without mythic. I hate to break it to you, but you couldn't be more wrong, but I'm not gonna go into any more detail just like to say - research. There are a lot of places where drg has a "point" and if you weren't so stuck in your ways that certain jobs are better, maybe you would see that. Elitists really do annoy me and that's fine, its my opinion, but seems so many people are getting to the point where it's the best or nothing.

Afania

12-07-2012, 03:00 PM

Sorry just gonna chirp in here, there are quiet a lot of people who play ffxi who have lives which is why not everyone can can make a lvl 99 ukon/rag.

And my main point is all about making ukon+rag is still cheaper than Mythic, so why not just make empy/relic if you "have a life"? If you can't make lv 99 ukon/rag you can't make mythic either.

as you said drg is pointless without mythic. I hate to break it to you, but you couldn't be more wrong, but I'm not gonna go into any more detail just like to say - research. There are a lot of places where drg has a "point" and if you weren't so stuck in your ways that certain jobs are better, maybe you would see that. Elitists really do annoy me and that's fine, its my opinion, but seems so many people are getting to the point where it's the best or nothing.

Drg with relic 95 can do as much if not more than most dd's due to the amount of ws's you can put out, the jump damage, conserve tp, wyvern damage and just standard attacks being high.

Wow told me go to research when you stated DRG with relic 95 > most DDs...did you just mentioned wyvern dmg >.> How about I dig up a VW parse result showing the amount of % wyvern dmg in ally compare with everyone else?

Unless when you said DD you mean jobs like THF, then I have nothing to say.

And I love how point out a job have no point without X weapon=elitist. It's just like saying THF without max TH have no point, DRK without reso have no point, COR without WF have no point, WHM with 0 cure potency have no point. Certain job just needs certain gear/WS etc to have a point. In the case of DRG, Mythic or bust for current game content.

Afania

12-07-2012, 03:24 PM

It seems like you're the type of person who won't invite if no relic/emp

And no, I still invite none relic/empy DDs depending on situations and who I can get, but I don't invite just anyone. If I'm doing T3, I invite pretty much anyone, of course none gimp relic/empy takes priority. If I'm doing prov or legion, the only none relic/empy DD I'd take is OAT DRK, unless that DD is a friend of mine and really needs clear + ally have enough DD already, or unless that DD happened to be able to parse high without a relic/empy(which is rarely). I collect parse data as much as possible for every prov/legion run, and I've seen enough DDs in various performance in my life, including gimp relic/empy, I can even "rank" each indiviual DDs I pt with based on my database. I don't need you to tell me who can DD and who can't when you're probably not even on my server and don't know most of the DDs on this server.

Now you're probably going to call me elitist again, mind you I don't own any DD job, nor have any elite DD weapon such as Rag/ryuno/ukon, so I don't say this cuz I look down on other ppl when I don't outparse WAR myself(I don't even care what gear other ppl have, I only care about performance). I simply value my time, and entire ally's time. I aim for 20~30 min clear for full prov KI BC+ dragon to save everyone's time, not 4hr run with double wipe like a lot of PUGs that don't pick their DDs. If you want to blame me for being "elitist", blame those who are in ally wanting a fast and efficent Prov run, and goes fake d/c if ally wipe, not the /shout leader, who simply just try to fulfill every ally member's wishes.

Protip: If you want to complain about DRG without mythic not getting invite, instead of ranting here like an ass and calling others elitist and not knowing the job, be nice and more polite, you'll make more friends and get more invite that way. I do invite a lot of friends/lsmate when I make VW pt, even if some of their performance doesn't fit standard. Most of the time getting invite is more of a matter of connection.

Jaall

12-07-2012, 04:43 PM

I'm not here to make friends but i'm not being an ass here you are. You're exactly the reason why the games no fun because it takes being amazing to please you, that is all I am saying. DRG with relic is not better than most dd's I was wrong there and I admit that but it's almost as good or on par with and the only reason relic DRG isn't better is because most war's have ukon, most drk's have rag etc etc. And lastly I think you're getting me all wrong. I moan that the games getting to the point where nobody can join anything unless they have no lives because it takes the fun out of the game for the people who are to an extent. But what really gets me is other people saying you're a terrible player because you play the game how you want to and not how everyone else tells you to. Just because I play DRG main i'm classed as a bad player because I don't have war or drk and drg is, as you say, "pointless".

Saying all that i'm not too fussed in game because I have a decent geared BLU so for endgame I go on that, to get the gear for my DRG. And point of the post is to make mythic easier, to the point where those with a life can get one. Which would balance the game a bit yea, so I'm going to change my opinion, make mythic easier than relic. I know they wont but if they did the game would probably be much better due to people like you stating drg is pointless, same goes with pup and all the other jobs that benefit from mythic, who otherwise get no say in what events they can join just because they parse slightly worse.

Jaall

12-07-2012, 04:52 PM

...did you just mentioned wyvern dmg >.> How about I dig up a VW parse result showing the amount of % wyvern dmg in ally compare with everyone else?

Unless when you said DD you mean jobs like THF, then I have nothing to say.

And I love how point out a job have no point without X weapon=elitist. It's just like saying THF without max TH have no point, DRK without reso have no point, COR without WF have no point, WHM with 0 cure potency have no point. Certain job just needs certain gear/WS etc to have a point. In the case of DRG, Mythic or bust for current game content.

Okay... wyvern damage is little but it's a bonus which everyone overlooks. and pointing out a jobs pointless without X weapon is elitist because that weapon happens to be an elite weapon. max TH can be achieved within a day. Whm with 0 cure potency can do the same and effectively buy cure potency. Reso is even easier than all that. WF, okay that takes a bit longer but COR isn't bad without it because it has rolls that benefit the party. Saying someone has mythic or nothing when other weapons have been proven to make drg do higher damage is elitist. Just so happens that mythic is a lot better. Also maybe you don't know this because you haven't invited a DRG but jumps can do 2-2.5k damage and return 100-200 tp each time and be used every minute. Not all of a DRG's damage comes from the WS's which aren't far from war or drk anyway if you have a relic.

detlef

12-07-2012, 05:54 PM

Based on what I'm reading, I would suggest directing your efforts toward petitioning for making DRG more powerful rather than making mythic easier (which would affect all jobs).

Afania

12-07-2012, 06:23 PM

Okay... wyvern damage is little but it's a bonus which everyone overlooks. and pointing out a jobs pointless without X weapon is elitist because that weapon happens to be an elite weapon. max TH can be achieved within a day. Whm with 0 cure potency can do the same and effectively buy cure potency. Reso is even easier than all that. WF, okay that takes a bit longer but COR isn't bad without it because it has rolls that benefit the party. Saying someone has mythic or nothing when other weapons have been proven to make drg do higher damage is elitist. Just so happens that mythic is a lot better. Also maybe you don't know this because you haven't invited a DRG but jumps can do 2-2.5k damage and return 100-200 tp each time and be used every minute. Not all of a DRG's damage comes from the WS's which aren't far from war or drk anyway if you have a relic.

1.Nobody ignores wyvern dmg, I'm not blind when I look at parse numbers. I look at everything, from acc, crit-hit rate to melee/WS avg and ratio. Of course I wouldn't ignore wyvern dmg.

2.Whether a weapon makes large difference or not has nothing to do with harder to obtain or not. Otherwise I'd say KKK or bust for PUP, or Koga or bust for SAM. If today THF only get TH2 without Mythic, I'd say the same thing too, mythic or bust. Since another job /THF can achieve the same result with better utility. X weapon/WS or bust is based on usefulness, not how hard to obtain.

And I was actaully on DRG's side when it comes to this issue, I said only DRG has right to QQ about Mythic difficulty a few posts back, and you still call me elitist? Everyone else if you want a Mythic, just admit you want it for the sake of achievement or wanted to play nobody care jobs.

3. I pt with both relic and Mythic DRG before, but that's not important considering most of the relic DRG sucked anyways(yes every relic DRG I pt with doesn't parse high compare with rag/ukon, but I wouldn't judge based on indiviual parse either). Let's just look at spreadsheet, and compare with other DD job and weapon. A job is good or not is based on math, not who you pt with. Give me a TP/WS set that you think it's best for gungnir 95 DRG, I put them on spreadsheet compare with another DD job and let's see who wins? You telling me indiviual JA dmg and TP speed is irrelevant, the amount of dmg you do have many factors, your buff, enemy debuff, type of event etc. What if I say each reso can do 5k dmg thus reso is awesome, and DRK WAR>DRG? That doesn't prove anything and stop being so irrational when it comes to job debate.

Jaall

12-07-2012, 06:31 PM

I think i've made a clear enough point, so gonna end it at that. No job is "pointless" and being called pointless makes me annoyed. DRG still does damage and a lot more than some jobs, and has factors that make it unique. It does need an overhaul but then so do a lot of jobs because there are 2 clear jobs here that ruin it for everyone else because they're so good. I have DRK and WAR 99 just don't wanna get a relic or ukon because I simply can't be bothered, it is just a game to pass the time while my leg is broken. I like getting into debates about things and this one happens to be about something that's always annoyed me. Yes DRG isn't as good, but it's incredibly fun to play so i'm not gonna stop playing it to please people, I just wish I could actually play it.

Afania

12-07-2012, 06:32 PM

I'm not here to make friends but i'm not being an ass here you are. You're exactly the reason why the games no fun because it takes being amazing to please you,

Lol seriously? You didn't get what I said a few posts back don't you? Please me? I'm not an important person worth to be pleased. I'm nobody, like everyone else. Except when I log on, sometimes me and my friends/LS feel like doing prov, and nobody else is /shouting. So guess what? I go /shout one myself while getting friends/lsmate that needs it in the pt. Nothing more and nothing less. Everyone in ally wanted a good pt that kills fast, and end in 20~30 min so they can do 2nd one, not just me. Everytime when I invited someone doesn't do enough dmg, I got 10000 tell saying X player's gimp and stop inviting him next time, how about you please every other players 1st?

Please me? How about you please entire ally of player 1st and tell them kill slower is ok and please don't warp or fake d/c if pt kills too slow.

Or, how about you make your own ally and do all the work if you don't like to "please" anyone.

I find it funny that everyone wanted to do prov, and nobody want a bad pt that takes longer than 1hr a run, nobody want to /shout, so they bugged me to do all the /shout work, and I ended up being accused as elitist while I worked for everyone else, geez.

I moan that the games getting to the point where nobody can join anything unless they have no lives because it takes the fun out of the game for the people who are to an extent.

Make your own pt if nobody want to invite you, that way you play w/e you want. If you don't want to spend the effort making one, you have no right to complain the one spending the effort making one.

Also you said you have relic, I don't have one, nor real DD job, in that sense you have no life compare with me too.