New Step enhancing gear

[Deathrose]

In thinking of more ways to improve dancers performance and make more event friendly, I started thinking of maybe having gear that enhanced our step potency/duration. Steps are a major part of and one of the most unique abilities of dancer. As such I think at this level we should be seeing bolstered step effects to enhance each enfeeblement. If you other dancers out there have any input on this subject please add in. Maybe we can make something happen for dancer.:)


PS: Does anyone know if Dev team is still going to give dancer its aoe regain ability?

[SpankWustler]

Alternatively, that weird-looking Hardtospellsi thing that requires a bunch of Alexandrite could add potency or duration to steps instead of a bunch of useless accuracy.

Potency would be great. Duration would be balanced. Accuracy is like gluing extra nipples to a dead manatee.

[Byrth]

Heh, I'd also like to see Terpsichore's step enhancement do something more useful. I'd also like to see Steps get a boost that's accessible by all DNCs, though. Locking all of the necessary fixes for the job into a 600mil weapon would be like giving PUP Kenkonken.

1) I'd like to see a basic potency increase from Steps, with a more front-ended distribution of potency values.
Examples:
* Box Step : 8% -> 12% -> 14% -> 16% -> 18%
* Feather Step (with AF3+2 feet) : 5% -> 8% -> 10% -> 12% -> 14%
* Quickstep : I feel this one is strong enough already
* Stutter Step : It hasn't been quantified and isn't used

2) I'd like to see the JA delay removed from Dancer job abilities. JA delay is the time between using one ability and using the next melee attack (or ability). It currently chokes Dancer up, because in low delay situations (for instance, if you're a job with high dual wield and two low delay daggers with Haste Samba and Haste up), Steps cost you ~an attack round to give a fairly weak debuff to an enemy that's about to die. If this delay didn't exist then the Dancer playstyle would be much more exciting.
Example:
Presto -> Step -> Reverse -> WS :: You did 1 WS worth of damage, but it cost you approximately 5 attack rounds, which is >half a WS of TP anyway on top of the melee damage.
If they changed this, we wouldn't be stuck only using Reverse for self-skillchains.

3) I'd actually like for there to not be duration increases necessarily. It would be fine for me with Terpsichore, but I don't think it would be nice for the average DNC if they did number 1 and 2, which would make people want to maximize the number of FMs they get and use. Right now it's possible to cap out two dazes at once on a monster before the first one wears if you ride your timers. There are really only two dazes that are worthwhile in any given situation, so you'd be stuck letting one wear off so that you can get 2~3 FMs per Step again instead of 1.

4) I'd like all Steps to kill Chigoes. Why do only some kill Chigoes? It's a mystery.

[Deathrose]

The delay between abilities/atk round really is a problem. I could see if the abilities were potent enough to justify it but they arent. personally id make box an even 20 and feather 15, hate weird figures lol.

[SpankWustler]

2) I'd like to see the JA delay removed from Dancer job abilities. JA delay is the time between using one ability and using the next melee attack (or ability). It currently chokes Dancer up, because in low delay situations (for instance, if you're a job with high dual wield and two low delay daggers with Haste Samba and Haste up), Steps cost you ~an attack round to give a fairly weak debuff to an enemy that's about to die. If this delay didn't exist then the Dancer playstyle would be much more exciting.
Example:
Presto -> Step -> Reverse -> WS :: You did 1 WS worth of damage, but it cost you approximately 5 attack rounds, which is >half a WS of TP anyway on top of the melee damage.
If they changed this, we wouldn't be stuck only using Reverse for self-skillchains.

I'd really like to see job ability delay just removed entirely, if that is even possible. If removal isn't possible, it should be acknowledged that jobs like Dancer suffer because of it and the effect should be mollified somehow.


Why do only some kill Chigoes? It's a mystery.

Obviously, our characters aren't fat enough to kill Chigoes unless they step on them just right. Taco Bell needs to open up a few places in Vana'diel.

[Lokithor]

Taco Bell needs to open up a few places in Vana'diel.
Wouldn't that just result in more chigoes?

[Eri]

Heh, I'd also like to see Terpsichore's step enhancement do something more useful. I'd also like to see Steps get a boost that's accessible by all DNCs, though. Locking all of the necessary fixes for the job into a 600mil weapon would be like giving PUP Kenkonken.

1) I'd like to see a basic potency increase from Steps, with a more front-ended distribution of potency values.
Examples:
* Box Step : 8% -> 12% -> 14% -> 16% -> 18%
* Feather Step (with AF3+2 feet) : 5% -> 8% -> 10% -> 12% -> 14%
* Quickstep : I feel this one is strong enough already
* Stutter Step : It hasn't been quantified and isn't used

2) I'd like to see the JA delay removed from Dancer job abilities. JA delay is the time between using one ability and using the next melee attack (or ability). It currently chokes Dancer up, because in low delay situations (for instance, if you're a job with high dual wield and two low delay daggers with Haste Samba and Haste up), Steps cost you ~an attack round to give a fairly weak debuff to an enemy that's about to die. If this delay didn't exist then the Dancer playstyle would be much more exciting.
Example:
Presto -> Step -> Reverse -> WS :: You did 1 WS worth of damage, but it cost you approximately 5 attack rounds, which is >half a WS of TP anyway on top of the melee damage.
If they changed this, we wouldn't be stuck only using Reverse for self-skillchains.

3) I'd actually like for there to not be duration increases necessarily. It would be fine for me with Terpsichore, but I don't think it would be nice for the average DNC if they did number 1 and 2, which would make people want to maximize the number of FMs they get and use. Right now it's possible to cap out two dazes at once on a monster before the first one wears if you ride your timers. There are really only two dazes that are worthwhile in any given situation, so you'd be stuck letting one wear off so that you can get 2~3 FMs per Step again instead of 1.

4) I'd like all Steps to kill Chigoes. Why do only some kill Chigoes? It's a mystery.

There some reasoning behind this, and i like the general Direction!

However, i had a slightly diffrent Idea!

I'm widely against 'binding' Step Potency to any kind of Gear/Merrits.

I also hate that a subjob /dnc not only gets the debuff Potency but also can hinder the Mainjob to get sufficent Finishing moves in some cases.

My Idea to Couter this is quite Simple.

Increse the 'Step Tier' for the Mainjob.

So if a Subjob can reach Lv 5 Steps.

Why not make it so that a Main Dancer is able to increase that to Tier 8 or 10?

It would help with potency, uniqueness of the Job (as in some debuff Levels can only be reached by the Mainjob) and in Some cases even with Finishing moves Gain.

[Faleni]

I may be less experienced,
but I'd like to see what Byrth says.
Except I would say:
Only slight duration increases: 5 or 10 seconds. No more. Just enough to have Step tiers to be slightly more manageable.
And/Or
Ability delay decrease by 3-5 seconds for Steps. I think that not-wanting-to-die wants less on Waltzes, but they are probably fine where they are.

[Calysto]

increase potency (total of ~20% debuff for each at least)
let presto stack like boost
add more steps(heck, even make "steps tier 2" for the potency if you want so you don't have to touch the existing ones)
increase duration (1m + 45s ?)

[Damane]

Heh, I'd also like to see Terpsichore's step enhancement do something more useful. I'd also like to see Steps get a boost that's accessible by all DNCs, though. Locking all of the necessary fixes for the job into a 600mil weapon would be like giving PUP Kenkonken.

1) I'd like to see a basic potency increase from Steps, with a more front-ended distribution of potency values.
Examples:
* Box Step : 8% -> 12% -> 14% -> 16% -> 18%
* Feather Step (with AF3+2 feet) : 5% -> 8% -> 10% -> 12% -> 14%
* Quickstep : I feel this one is strong enough already
* Stutter Step : It hasn't been quantified and isn't used

2) I'd like to see the JA delay removed from Dancer job abilities. JA delay is the time between using one ability and using the next melee attack (or ability). It currently chokes Dancer up, because in low delay situations (for instance, if you're a job with high dual wield and two low delay daggers with Haste Samba and Haste up), Steps cost you ~an attack round to give a fairly weak debuff to an enemy that's about to die. If this delay didn't exist then the Dancer playstyle would be much more exciting.
Example:
Presto -> Step -> Reverse -> WS :: You did 1 WS worth of damage, but it cost you approximately 5 attack rounds, which is >half a WS of TP anyway on top of the melee damage.
If they changed this, we wouldn't be stuck only using Reverse for self-skillchains.

3) I'd actually like for there to not be duration increases necessarily. It would be fine for me with Terpsichore, but I don't think it would be nice for the average DNC if they did number 1 and 2, which would make people want to maximize the number of FMs they get and use. Right now it's possible to cap out two dazes at once on a monster before the first one wears if you ride your timers. There are really only two dazes that are worthwhile in any given situation, so you'd be stuck letting one wear off so that you can get 2~3 FMs per Step again instead of 1.

4) I'd like all Steps to kill Chigoes. Why do only some kill Chigoes? It's a mystery.

I like your ideas but I would expand them even more.
Samba duration should be doubled and the effects of Sambas should spread out to Alliances, so one dnc in a ally can give everyone haste samba. After all Sambas are somethign that work on the mob and other people only benefit from it if they hit the mob (and the dnc hits the mob), so I dont see why Ally members that hit the same mob cant benefit from it too.

As a 2. option i would like SE to add more DIFFERENT Sambas (and new tiers to old sambas) to strengthen the point of a support/buffer/healer/DD hybrid job DNC is on top of your Idea of strengthening their "Debuffs" with steps:
Crit hit + Samba
Haste Samba II

and fixes to the old Sambas:
Aspir Samba: make it so that this Samba works on any mob (even if it doesnt have MP) ecxept for undead.
Drain Samba: Option 1: enhance the Samba so it gives players HP+ until it reaches a cap if the person is allready at full HP (basicly the same as Drain II for DRK just additiv)
Option 2: nerf the effect a bit but make it actually work like Blood weapon (aka its not dmg that is converted to HP, but the drain effect is ON TOP of the dmg).

[Deathrose]

These ideas are absolutly wonderful :D

[vienne]

Samba duration should be doubled

Aspir Samba: make it so that this Samba works on any mob (even if it doesnt have MP) ecxept for undead.


With dancer's Tiara macrod in you get ~3 minutes, i dont see why it should be doubled. I like DNC cause its a fast paced job, doubling samba duration would make it more boring/routinely. (edit: on the other hand if they would give us some more difficult piece of gear to obtain that could lengthen samba more, i would like the thought of that)

Aspir Samba giving mp on any mob except undead would make a couple of jobs a bit to happy, sounds unbalancing.

I'd mainly like to see more gear/merits to succesfully land a step, it still happens alot that i fight a high lvl mob and my step misses while i've just used presto, bit frustrating ><

[Byrth]

Dancer's Tiara gives you 2 minutes. Saber Dance increases the duration by 5% of that (6 seconds) per merit level after the first, so current max Samba duration is 144 seconds.

I also made this post about it recently (point 5):

These are the problems I see for Dancer along with the solutions and justification:
1) High Job Ability delay (the pause in actions after using a job ability) limits our playstyle.
Adjustment:
* Reduce both phases of Job ability delay by 1 second specifically for Steps, Sambas, and Flourishes.
Justification:
Using steps and flourishes costs you multiple attack rounds and commonly is only used to gain TP, which you can also gain by just taking those attack rounds. You might gain less TP by simply attacking, but you're also doing damage at the same time. Due to this, it's not actually worth using Steps and Flourishes unless you're skillchaining or solo. Because you can pretty much only skillchain when you're solo, it's safe to say that Dancer playstyle breaks down when you're in a party. Not good for an alleged support job.


2) Samba viability problems: Sambas are impractical in current events, Sambas other than Haste Samba suck, Haste Samba doesn't matter if you're already capping delay, and in high buff situations there's no difference between DNC main and DNC sub using Haste Samba for any job (the last 5% is irrelevant due to the 80% delay reduction cap).
Adjustment:
* Increase Haste Samba for DNC main job to 10% JA Haste base without merits and leave /DNC Samba at 5%.
* Change Haste Samba merits from increasing Haste to adding 2% Haste per merit level to Drain/Aspir Sambas.
* Fix Spheres so that they affect the user.
* Change Sambas so that they're a sphere that gives their effect.
* Change Drain/Aspir Samba so that they calculate maximum Drain amount before forms of delay reduction.
Justification:
The 80% Delay cap can be hit with 25% equipment Haste, 43.75% Magic Haste (the magic haste cap), and 11.25% Job Ability Haste/delay reduction. This last 11.25% is covered by Martial Arts/Dual Wield for 1H jobs and mostly covered by Hasso (10% of it) for 2H jobs. That leaves the last 1.25% for Samba, and both /DNC Samba (5%) and 5/5 Haste Samba DNC Samba (10%) can cap it. This is really pretty insufficient, and means that DNC isn't going to be useful in high buff situations.
Instead of fighting that, I would recommend pushing towards DNC being a buffer/DD hybrid for lowman events. The problem with lowman events at the moment is that you're generally fighting level 75 content and everyone is fighting a different monster, thus not getting Samba. If Samba was a fixed-Sphere effect then this wouldn't matter, and allowing us to put Drain or Aspir on top of that would be very nice.


3) Our Flourish recast timers are too limiting.
Adjustment:
* Reduce Wild Flourish to a 10 second recast
* Eliminate Building Flourish's recast timer, or switch it with Desperate Flourish.
* Reduce the Flourishes III options to a 1 minute recast
Justification:
Wild Flourish is currently the competition for Reverse Flourish especially if the monster has <100% HP, but I find myself unwilling to use it because Reverse Flourish's damage potential is ultimately so much higher and I may want to use that instead during the recast. If the recast was less of an issue, I would be more willing to use it and my playstyle could be more fluid. Similarly, Building Flourish currently sees no use because of JA delay and the fact that it can't be chained together with other WS buffs (like Wild Flourish and Reverse Flourish). If you eliminated it's recast timer, we could do that.
The Flourishes III reduction is less important, but more just a "why not?" kind of suggestion. The only useful flourish from that category at the moment is Climactic Flourish, which has the shortest recast. Why not just reduce all of them to 1 minute so people can use them more freely? It stinks to have a whole category locked out for minutes if you use one of them.


4) Our Waltz abilities share the same recast timer, and this is terrible if you're actually trying to heal.
Adjustment:
* Reduce Curing Waltz IV to a 12 second recast and Curing Waltz V to a 14 second recast.
* Split Waltzes into two categories (odd and even), with Healing Waltz in the even group.
Category 1: Curing Waltz, Curing Waltz III, Curing Waltz V, Divine Waltz
Category 2: Healing Waltz, Curing Waltz II, Curing Waltz IV, Divine Waltz II
Justification:
There are two ways to look at Dancer as a healer. First, you could say that because their job abilities are nearly instant there should be a substantial penalty associated with them in the form of a recast timer. Second, you could say that because their abilities cost TP they should be self-limiting (due to your TP gain) and don't require any substantial penalty beyond that. I am of the second camp. At the moment HP healed/minute is higher than possibly usable for healers like White Mage, so it wouldn't be game breaking if Dancer could spend all the TP they make and increase their HP healed/minute. Splitting Waltzes into two categories still leaves them somewhat recast dependent while allowing us more variety with our healing.


5) Samba duration is too short.
Adjustment:
* Increase Samba durations to 3 minutes, with AF1+1 head adding another minute and Saber Dance merits adding 15 seconds per merit level for a total possible duration of 5 minutes.
* Double Samba TP costs.
Justification:
Reapplying buffs is tedious, especially when we have essentially no reason to switch between the buffs. Making Sambas cost twice as much and last twice as long reduces the annoyance for the player while still providing the same penalty.


There are more adjustments to be made (like making Flourishes III useful), but I'll stop here for today because it's time for post-Thanksgiving Dinner.


I hit Point 1 in my post in this thread, and Point 4 is old-hat at this point.

Point 2 and 3 are somewhat novel for this thread. I personally enjoy the idea of making our Samba merits give Haste to Drain/Aspir Sambas. As it is, I use Haste Samba 99% of the time, Drain Samba 1% of the time (when I'm going afk), and Aspir Samba never. If they made these changes, I'd use Drain Samba 99% of the time, Aspir Samba 1% of the time, and Haste Samba never.

[vienne]

Dancer's Tiara gives you 2 minutes. Saber Dance increases the duration by 5% of that (6 seconds) per merit level after the first, so current max Samba duration is 144 seconds.

well i'll be honest, i had to look up the time on sambas on wiki and there it said ~3 minutes so i'm guessing then it's incorrect on their side. But i stick to my point, for me samba duration is long enough

[Damane]

Dancer's Tiara gives you 2 minutes. Saber Dance increases the duration by 5% of that (6 seconds) per merit level after the first, so current max Samba duration is 144 seconds.

I also made this post about it recently (point 5):



I hit Point 1 in my post in this thread, and Point 4 is old-hat at this point.

Point 2 and 3 are somewhat novel for this thread. I personally enjoy the idea of making our Samba merits give Haste to Drain/Aspir Sambas. As it is, I use Haste Samba 99% of the time, Drain Samba 1% of the time (when I'm going afk), and Aspir Samba never. If they made these changes, I'd use Drain Samba 99% of the time, Aspir Samba 1% of the time, and Haste Samba never.

Something just crossed my mind. They should add an ability on a 3 min recast timer that works on steps and gives them the max debuff on the first use of the step, but it wouldnt give any finishing moves back.

Basicly if you use this Ability and then use any step, that step hits autmaticly potency 5. Usefull for situations where you want to quickly add a strong debuff instantly on one mob (zergs or so), instead of trying to get it up for 1 min and 15sec. The ability would also grant 100% step accuracy for that one step.