This isnt an MMORPG anymore. [Archive]

Zayviar

11-18-2012, 12:27 AM

As the title says, this isnt an MMORPG anymore. SE needs to balance the system, because it hardcore fails.

In an MMORPG there should be places where a solo player has his/her freedom, but the higher endgame, and most endgame should be party based.

All see now is ppl duo/trio boxing to get things done, cause there is not enough ppl to help out with anything. Or at least don't want help people.

Higher tier gear is so easy, its so almost as theres no difference between the skilled veterns, the noobies, and the leeched. Now does that say anything?

Theres a 1-2 challenging end games, thats Legion and NNI, and NNI isnt that hard if you know what you doing.

Everything else, you can either solo, OR cause you HAVE to bring min. of 3 ppl with you, not that that you WANT too.

This game is broken, and it is your job to listen to us gamers, and fix this. Or we leave and find something better. Mostly right now, you have players that dont want to try any other game, hoping that FFXI will change for the better, and with each update it brings more disappointment, how can we not give up on this game, if we feel like you guys have already done so?

We want harder content, like the old days. Keep the easier leveling, but keep out the leeching. Sometimes you have to sacrifice to gain. Nerf Fell Cleave, and Charged Whisker. Make it so you have to be 70 to enter abyssea. Either uncap the skills with level syncing or get rid of the gimp making feature all together. Change the content, make us want to go back to old vana'diel. Upgrade the old HNMs, let them fight again. Give us something to sharpen our blades, and harden our armor.

The MMORPG world is rapidly changing, SE can you keep up with the times, can you stay afloat? Can you challenge us players once again? No body likes be handfeed their goodies, maybe for awhile, but then it all taste sour because we didnt earn it. Let me ask you something are you happy with this game? Are the players happy with this game?

Btw this is just my opinion, after forums I read, what do the players think?

Arcon

11-18-2012, 12:40 AM

Btw this is just my opinion, after forums I read, what do the players think?

I think you're very wrong. Every new event that was released cannot be cleared lowman (except NNI/MB, if you consider 6 people lowman). ADL, Voidwatch, Einherjar II, Limbus II, NNI, Legion and Meeble Burrows. Nothing released in the last two years was lowman-friendly. And Neo-Salvage looks like it may not be either, from what we've seen so far. It seems you're only talking about Lv75 content and/or Abyssea, because nothing else fits your description.

Zayviar

11-18-2012, 03:09 AM

Your right, its designed for non lowman, but its all easy. Its not challenging. But we have to go to timed instances to be hardly challenged? I miss the days where we would go into battle, and not knowing if we were going to win or lose. And I really wouldnt call any of that end game. I miss where you would shout for mission help and instantly 5-10 ppl would /tell you. The only shouts you see these days are Qilin, Pil, occasionally Kaggen, Akvan, and Lancing Lamorak. Those are the shouts you see. Maybe some seal shouts but not really anymore. Where are the battles where one person's mistake can cripple a fight, and make you lose? Kirin can be trioed, and the gods can be soloed. I mean upgrade it Neo Kirin or Arch Kirin wlegs that are 18 percent movement speed. Same with the gods. What Im trying to say there is no use for the older content, there is no challenge in the newer content. Something needs to change.

Zayviar

11-18-2012, 03:16 AM

ADL can be trioed >.>

Arcon

11-18-2012, 03:42 AM

What Im trying to say there is no use for the older content, there is no challenge in the newer content. Something needs to change.

That's why they're nerfing PD/Embrava, that's where you'll find your challenge.

ADL can be trioed >.>

And? So what? Therefore? I said it wasn't lowman-friendly, and it isn't. Most sky gods back in the day could also be soloed by RDM, but that doesn't mean it was lowman content.

Zayviar

11-18-2012, 03:48 AM

LOL already rdm solo is like 1-4+ hours and it took skill. not a 3-5 minute fight. Embrava/PD nerf isnt going to change anything. just makes so players will find a new strategy. Embrava and PD just makes stuff alot easier. Im talking about in the long run. EVERYTHING is effing easy apart from legion.

Arcon

11-18-2012, 04:00 AM

LOL already rdm solo is like 1-4+ hours and it took skill. not a 3-5 minute fight.

Why is the time relevant? 3man ADL is much more of a crapshoot than soloing Genbu was.

Embrava/PD nerf isnt going to change anything. just makes so players will find a new strategy. Embrava and PD just makes stuff alot easier. Im talking about in the long run. EVERYTHING is effing easy apart from legion.

And NNI and Einherjar, i.e. most of the content they've added recently. I've done all of old FFXI and all of new, and the difference in required skill only went up. I cleared all of Dynamis, Limbus, sea, sky and any KSNM/HNM with a social LS (apart from AV/PW). I cannot possibly clear Legion or Einherjar with a social LS these days. Limbus II now is also harder than Limbus I was at 75, possibly except for the bosses. I don't see how you can claim these things were harder back then. But you're probably just too pro to notice. Either that, or you really sucked back in the day.

Zayviar

11-18-2012, 04:10 AM

It takes more skill to do the things now then back then? have you been playing this game since release?

Arcon

11-18-2012, 04:17 AM

It takes more skill to do the things now then back then?

I never mentioned skill. I said it was hard. That's different. The content is hard, but it requires more gear and raw manpower than skill. But it's hard to clear, and without Embrava you'll see the number of groups clearing it go down a lot, and it's already way lower than anything back in the day. Jailer of Love was killed more than Odin's Chamber II is cleared these days.

have you been playing this game since release?

No.

Plasticleg

11-18-2012, 04:57 AM

OP obviously doesn't know what MMO stands for...

Zayviar

11-20-2012, 09:21 AM

Fenrirs_Takumi

12-15-2012, 07:28 AM

And also don't Forget @ 75, people were able to do salvage and Limbus @ 6 and were able to do an good job. HNM @ 4 and Solo lolgenbu.

Caketime

12-15-2012, 12:39 PM

Dear OP,

Play drunk. I find that my adventures are more interesting when I'm sloshed. Especially when healing groups, that's special.

Sunrider

12-16-2012, 03:39 AM

Soloing Suzaku on RDM at 75 took patience.

Keeping a party alive while plastered? That takes skill.

(Hell Mode: Keep a party alive drunk... on WAR/WHM)

vienne

12-16-2012, 06:34 AM

everything is better in this game when you're frunk, even the people playing it are nicer and dieing in an event is less painfull or getting outlotted for the 20th time is better for the life expectations of my keyboard.... although i have to admit i'm a way better healer when i'm slightly intoxicated.

Afania

12-16-2012, 11:32 PM

In an MMORPG there should be places where a solo player has his/her freedom, but the higher endgame, and most endgame should be party based.

All see now is ppl duo/trio boxing to get things done, cause there is not enough ppl to help out with anything. Or at least don't want help people.

1. Duo/Trio box is still pt based, it's just that they refuse to play with other player and would rather play 2~3 characters. But it is still multiple character and can not be done with just 1 character.

2. Unless this game adds cross server pt search function, big alliance endgame event will be very, very hard to work unless it's /shout friendly like VW, especially for PST and EU players, or GMT+3 or +8 english speaking players. You need 18+ ppl with same language, plays on same timezone, and have similar goal. When majority of time there are only like 1.1k~1.2k players per server unless it's JP time. You want big event with lots of players, but it just won't work in this game, not without cross server pt search function and population so small. Those who plays on PST or EU time, they will probably never get to join an event that requires 18~36 ppl.

I had problem to make a pt of 6 ppl static gather every week even, most of the time 1 or 2 ppl just can't pop on time and ended up 5/6.

Old 75 era FFXI isn't going to work well at this time. FFXI had more players back then, and now if you ask if anyone want FFXI to go back to old HNM era, most of them will tell you "no", including some of the HNM era endgame players I know of.....I know many players used to camp HNM hardcore, including set alarm and wake up in the mid-night for it, now many of them would rather not live such life again.

I feel 4~6 ppl event is just fine, any bigger pt has to be /shout friendly without pt search function. If someone want to duo/trio box that's his freedom, but we totally have the freedom to play with friends if you want to play with friends in lowman content.

Afania

12-16-2012, 11:41 PM

What Im trying to say, if you havent been here since the beginning then you would know the skill difference between an old school vet and a abyssea born player. Dynamis mobs were all truesight and impossible in engage @ 75. You had to have organization, teamwork. If one person screwed up, everyone got screwed. Most players now rarely have to where sneak and invisible to walk throu areas, and thats not because fear of dieing, they jsut dont want to spend time on a 20 second fight. Im hoping SoA solves this for me. But if you played vanilla you would know what Im talking about.

I don't really notice huge skill difference gap before and after Abyssea era. Pre-abyssea there are still many RDM that doesn't haste, doesn't debuff, and plays RDM like a WHM. Ppl post abyssea gimp is mostly because they're new to the job and it takes time to learn. Pre-abyssea era if someone just ding 75 same thing could happen too.

Also the room for error in dynamis isn't lower than post abyssea event such as meeble, legion etc. Some of the meeble bosses can still fuck you up if you enter without reading what's coming up and prepare for it, and enter with 3. Even in dyna now at 99 it's still possible to got fucked up if you linked on wrong time and wrong place. It's just that when your ally size is bigger, it's easier to have someone make major mistake because there are more ppl.

Umichi

01-11-2013, 02:21 AM

SE said starting out that aby was a zone for level and gear progression.... not endgame content... your point is invalid.... wait until audolin comes out and we don't have OP buffs and we have to return to the real world to fight monsters again.... me being a drg.... ima laugh my ass off as i connect hits all the time again while people miss... or someone pulls hate off the tank and gets slammed with a 700-800 hp hit.

bigdave

01-11-2013, 02:27 AM

I cant wait for the new expansion myself

Umichi

01-11-2013, 02:41 AM

1. Duo/Trio box is still pt based, it's just that they refuse to play with other player and would rather play 2~3 characters. But it is still multiple character and can not be done with just 1 character.

2. Unless this game adds cross server pt search function, big alliance endgame event will be very, very hard to work unless it's /shout friendly like VW, especially for PST and EU players, or GMT+3 or +8 english speaking players. You need 18+ ppl with same language, plays on same timezone, and have similar goal. When majority of time there are only like 1.1k~1.2k players per server unless it's JP time. You want big event with lots of players, but it just won't work in this game, not without cross server pt search function and population so small. Those who plays on PST or EU time, they will probably never get to join an event that requires 18~36 ppl.

I had problem to make a pt of 6 ppl static gather every week even, most of the time 1 or 2 ppl just can't pop on time and ended up 5/6.

Old 75 era FFXI isn't going to work well at this time. FFXI had more players back then, and now if you ask if anyone want FFXI to go back to old HNM era, most of them will tell you "no", including some of the HNM era endgame players I know of.....I know many players used to camp HNM hardcore, including set alarm and wake up in the mid-night for it, now many of them would rather not live such life again.

I feel 4~6 ppl event is just fine, any bigger pt has to be /shout friendly without pt search function. If someone want to duo/trio box that's his freedom, but we totally have the freedom to play with friends if you want to play with friends in lowman content.

i'm with you on this.... FFXI was a very hardcore game back in the day for endgame... i remember i changed my schedule at work just so i could get better times i could be on at (which meant i woke up at like 12am everyday)

Umichi

01-11-2013, 02:42 AM

and god forbid if only one person had the time for a pop...

TheGreatDef

01-27-2013, 07:13 PM

cap never should have went past 75 imo then this game wouldn't be so FAIL now...correction shouldn't went past 75 and aby should have never existed

FrankReynolds

01-28-2013, 09:25 AM

cap never should have went past 75 imo then this game wouldn't be so FAIL now...correction shouldn't went past 75 and aby should have never existed

I agree. If they hadn't come up with that crap, then I would have quit two years ago and saved a butt load of money and time for more important things. Damn you SE and your fun rewarding content!

Mirage

01-28-2013, 07:47 PM

Btw this is just my opinion, after forums I read, what do the players think?

I think you have a bad definition of the term "MMORPG".

MarkovChain

01-29-2013, 02:44 AM

I would say just quit but really all the MMO (that seem to have success) are solo game play. I've done the secret world, stwor, GW2 recently. They are all the same. Same concept which babysits you from A to B. GW2 system is such dumb that you get exp from walking lol. I'm not sure why everyone seems to like this crap lol.

MarkovChain

01-29-2013, 02:46 AM

I think you're very wrong. Every new event that was released cannot be cleared lowman (except NNI/MB, if you consider 6 people lowman). ADL, Voidwatch, Einherjar II, Limbus II, NNI, Legion and Meeble Burrows. Nothing released in the last two years was lowman-friendly. And Neo-Salvage looks like it may not be either, from what we've seen so far. It seems you're only talking about Lv75 content and/or Abyssea, because nothing else fits your description.

What did you smoke ? Only VW and legion and low man unfriendly. I'll recall my video of 3 man ADL

http://youtu.be/i_otAkCgFgY

Arcon

01-29-2013, 03:21 AM

What did you smoke ? Only VW and legion and low man unfriendly. I'll recall my video of 3 man ADL

Yes, I know from all the other threads you posted that in, as well as your signature. You are a massive show off after all. I also already replied to that exact argument, which you would know if you would bother to actually read a thread:

ADL can be trioed >.>

And? So what? Therefore? I said it wasn't lowman-friendly, and it isn't. Most sky gods back in the day could also be soloed by RDM, but that doesn't mean it was lowman content.

MarkovChain

01-29-2013, 04:21 AM

It doesn't make them low man because you can't ? I don't get it. The comparison bewteen RDM soloing is completely retarded because this would take forever to farm a pop and kill a god solo on RDM while farming an ADL witth 3 is a matter of < 1H plus 2 minutes killling, for a potential money maker that is equivalent so a fully upgraded salavge body of that time you are talking about.

Low manning adl (with 6) is the best possible way to farm ADL. All larger groups that do it pop to few ADl compared to the number they got. Stop claiming it's not low man, it's the exact situation were if you are clever and skilled you will be succesful. There are only 1 event in the game tthat is not low mannable : legion. Even voidwatch was moved to low mannable with the stones. All other endgame contents are not soloable nor trioable or at least with very little success rate. In this sense FFXI is still an MMO unlike everything else that's being done in the rest of MMos. The market is currently focused on pale imitations of a single model that are essentially solo games with little to no iteration with others. I mean you can possibly reach max level in FFXI without interacting with other (you'll need at least the AH for instance, and later, a few shout to get help for AF3+2). All other mmos allow to get gear and exp solo whatever you do, and grouping is just a matter of a choice for no real rewards for it.

Arcon

01-29-2013, 04:48 AM

It doesn't make them low man because you can't ? I don't get it.

Not surprised.

The comparison bewteen RDM soloing is completely retarded because this would take forever to farm a pop and kill a god solo on RDM while farming an ADL witth 3 is a matter of < 1H plus 2 minutes killling, for a potential money maker that is equivalent so a fully upgraded salavge body of that time you are talking about.

And what are the chances of success? Just because it can be cleared low-man with the best gear, strategy, timing, skill and most importantly luck, doesn't mean it's low-man content.

Low manning adl (with 6) is the best possible way to farm ADL.

That's not my definition of low-manning, but whatever.

There are only 1 event in the game tthat is not low mannable : legion. Even voidwatch was moved to low mannable with the stones.

Aside from that bullshit VW argument, it's the complete opposite of what you say in the next sentence:

All other endgame contents are not soloable nor trioable or at least with very little success rate. In this sense FFXI is still an MMO unlike everything else that's being done in the rest of MMos.

So first you say that there is almost no low-man content, and in the next sentence say that everything else is still low-man content? At first I thought it was a mistake and you forgot a "not" in there somewhere, but then you even used that as an argument as to why FFXI is still a MMOG.

MarkovChain

01-29-2013, 05:14 AM

6 man ADL is 80% chance of success I've done 2 glowing weapons like this which is the hardest achievement atm. Those that do it with 10+ don't get even close to 90%. It's notorious that the more people you bring the less efficient you are (people leeching, not showing up etc). Like I said this does not apply to legion, and to some extend voidwatch (assuming it's still relevant). End game is everything you do at capped exp. If you are solo you can't achieve anything but cruor gear and magian weapons. If you dual box or play in small group you can reach most of the good gear which 90% of players have. If you want even better gear you'll need nyzul/salvage/meeble/ADL gear which require 3 to 6 people or farming ability which will likely need dual boxing or grouping (dynamis coins for instance).

Saying that endgame requires full group is plainly wrong info period. I've got the best possible gear until salvage was out, and I wasn't part of an engame linkshell for 5+ years.

Sargent

01-29-2013, 08:23 AM

And Neo-Salvage looks like it may not be either, from what we've seen so far.

I've trioed every Neo Salvage zone, thats with the other guy dual boxxing. It's completely lowmannable.

Edit: Replied before reading when it was posted. However, I do agree that this game has gone too much toward people dual boxxing.

Chocobits

01-29-2013, 01:08 PM

tl;dr version: Lol. Sigh.

"We" presume a lot.

The forums have time and time again beaten down trolls trying to advocate level capping Abyssea and nerfing leeching.

I love the leeching system and I have leveled up a few jobs using it now. Jobs I never would have taken the time to, given the old xp way. I am an old school soloer and I would place my level of play skill on par with anyone's. And I leech. Leech =/= unskilled. In fact, quite the opposite. As has been stated before, people that leech multiple jobs are those that are usually in the best position to utilize them.

I agree with parts of your tirade. I feel low-manning should be discouraged in an MMO. The game, however, is designed to be the most rewarding to those that low-man or multi-box. Why share the spoils when you can divvy them up in a way you have complete control over? The situation of waiting literally YEARS for a rare drop because of its rarity, lotting rights issues and attendance has been all but eradicated.

If old school xp, Abyssea level caps and waiting lists for gear suddenly became the new standard, the game would die off within a few months. Why? Because most of the people that shared a mind with you have already jumped ship. You are the vocal minority declaring themselves to be a majority despite mass criticism.

Leonardus

01-29-2013, 06:27 PM

I don't agree with the topic creator.

SE, thank you for making some new content accessible and enjoyable for a party of 3-6. Meebles is fun. Salvage II feels just challenging enough that you have to make sure you don't run out of time collecting all your plans or be too reckless. I really love it.

I don't get the appeal of the "old days," honestly. We all know it was difficult and time-consuming, but not often in a good way. My opinion, I guess.

Afania

01-29-2013, 10:39 PM

I agree with parts of your tirade. I feel low-manning should be discouraged in an MMO.

1.Other games have (cross server) pt search function, this game doesn't. And it's often 100x harder to make an ally for anything on none prime time.

2.I usually play between 9PM~10 or 11PM my time, sometimes even later. 90% of time when I log on in this game, every LS member/friends either go to bed, about to go to bed, or already joined another pt to do their stuff. If I can't solo/dual box, there's nothing I can do except sitting in port Jeuno and afk. I can go /shout for a salvage 2 pt, but 99% of time I'm not going to get any reply, or maybe it will take 2hr to get reply and by that time I have to go to bed again.

3. I'm not sure if anyone is interested in paying 13$ a month so you can afk in PJ and do nothing. I pay to play, to make progress, not sit in PJ and do nothing, or /shout for 2hr to make pt to do anything.

If you feel low-manning should be discouraged in an MMO, that's fine by me. But please come up with a solution that I can actually do the damn content and make progress instead of sitting in PJ and do nothing just because I can't get ppl. Low-man content, no matter how you dislike it, or how you feel it's bad, it's still better than no content(can't do anything). I haven't been able to do larger scale event such as legion because all the english speaking player(EST timezone) won't play when I log on, I don't play in EU timzone, and JPs don't play with outsiders. Not sure what's so enjoyable in an MMORPG if you just log on and can't do anything.

MMORPG should have soloable/lowman-able content period. If you want group event go do legion/odin2 or NNI. But you shouldn't take the option away for those who doesn't want to afk in PJ.

Kari

01-29-2013, 11:18 PM

FFXI is an old game. As much as I'd love to see cross-server matchmaking and such, it's unlikely to happen.

People low-man if they can, simply because if they succeed they don't have a hard time splitting drops.
Except Abyssea, most reward systems are not friendly enough to want to bring a bunch of people.
If you CAN lowman something, you're probably at least somewhat skilled and/or geared. Tons of people suck at this game, and it's easy to differentiate who does and doesn't.

In the end, why bother with this topic now? Complaining about current content when there's an entire expansion coming is silly.

Zyla420

01-30-2013, 12:47 AM

in response to the OP, personally i find that the difficulty of the game has only risen post 75. nothing was really that hard pre 75 anyways, other than actually claiming hnm tbh. dynamis was easy, pull a bunch of mobs > sleepga > 2 pld pull a couple from the slept group > DD rapega. limbus wasn't much harder, didn't even need full alliance to farm. hnm were easy kills after you got the claim. yea missions could be a pain in the ass before, but even then you still either could only bring 6 ppl, or it didn't warrant a larger group than that anyways (excepting a few where more ppl basically garunteed a win).

yea abyssea is easy content i'll admit, but really so is everything else in this game. the only hard content, like everyone has already said, is legion and nni (and nni is only hard cause it's so dependant on luck). one could actually argue that it wasn't until post abyssea that anything difficult was added. these are just my own opinions, thus not fact, and it's not like i was some pro elite player either. i had some good gear, and a few really nice pieces at 75 endgame, but nothing like relic weapons or salvage gear. the content just wasn't that hard cause strategy actually mattered then and was utilized.