FC for lvls 4-30? ; ;

[Elphy]

So lately there has been /sh for pts from ppl offering to burn you from lvls 4-30 for 400k. I find this incredibly concerning.

This game has become entirely to unfriendly to new players and now if the fell cleavers found a way to lvl everyone from 4-30 there is going to be no chance at all for newcomers with no gil (unless of course they buy it, the whole point of these fc /sh I assume). I mean how many pts do you actually see running 30+ these days? Lvl 10-30 pts may all but disappear too if this trends.

I am all for easier lvling, my orig char took a good year to lvl my first job to 75 and merit completely. But if SE doesnt nip things like this in the bud there is no hope for the survival of ffxi. Numbers are dwindling as it is with all the new competition out there, even from SE itself and if you cannot even do something fundimental like lvl a job anymore without hundreds of thousands of gil, the game is SoL.

I held out hope but I'm starting to think they naysayers who think SE is completely done with ffxi are right. I knew it was on the backburner til xiv was fixed but wow.

They always want to spout off about balance and how they have to nerf everything for balance but issues like this need some balancing too before its too late.

[Dragonlord]

Crystals can actually be quite profitable, and you can farm them from level 1. In addition, soloing levels is far far easier now than it was 3 years ago. I just opened up a mule which i leveled to 20 and took to jeuno in a matter of a few hours. Its not like i needed this huge start-up funding from my main to even do it. If you think buying gil is the only way for low levels to obtain gil, you haven't done your research.

For those that wish to play a mage, they may want to just lv mnk or war first then cleave the mage up. That or wait for another new player to team up with. Either way new players get to play endgame far sooner than old school players. There are many other playability obstacles that are in the way, but players offering faster leveling for a fee isn't one of them.

[Elphy]

Point taken, although crystals, while profitable, are 4k-ish per stack, so a new player needs about what 100 stacks to get a lvling pt?

My point was not that buying money is an option, never have, never will. My point was that if pts cease or dwindle to being occasional than getting that start up is going to be grooling for new players and lvling solo, albeit faster than before, is gruelingly slow and boring compared to other new mmos on the market. If you are new, you perhaps dont know where to farm or anything about a book burn, or even where/what Jeuno is. It will turn off alot of new players. I just purchased Guild Wars 2, if I had to farm 400k gold or even more considering the lvl 30+ gil requirements or consider the slow boredom of book burns or soloing I would uninstall it and move on. I got to lvl 20 slower than I could in ffxi but in a much more dynamic and attn keeping way. This system may have worked before, but it no longer does, which is why SE streamlined the ease of exp in the first place. But this added gil requirement that the playerbase itself is imposing on new and existing players to do something so fundimental is going to cause problems in the long run.

All of us enjoy this game, want to see more expansions, more playable areas and jobs and everything beyond. We cannot do that however if we do not get some fresh players into the game. Numbers are dwindling slowly, xiv may cause them to dwindle more if its a success, WoW, GW2 the new elder scrolls mmo coming onto the market all offer new players a better experience than the current ffxi. You can enjoy endgame soon yes. But do ppl these days really want to put the effort into farming crystals or grinding solo lvls? Which is still comparitively slow. You may have been able to do it in a few hours, but someone who is brand new most likely will not be able to and end up not logging back in.

[Kincard]

While I would much rather them implement changes so that leveling through actually playing the game is preferred again (I don't mind fast xp, it's the afk part that especially creates problems when I pick up a BLM and he keeps getting resisted by The Hills Are Alive), especially increasing skillup rates, I really don't see how this is a detriment to newer players given how easy it is to solo level anyway. Nobody's forcing you to join fell cleaves so saying that it concerns you doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me.

In fact, as someone who grinded for hours in valkurm and whatnot in the early days I very much prefer soloing these days over needing to deal with...less than intelligent people in groups.

[Elphy]

hmm ok I think yall are looking at it from a long-term players perspective. If we just fc from lvl 4 on thats our choice. We also may be excited by the relative speed of soloing now comparted to 3 yrs ago. But look at it like this.

Your new. The first 10 or so lvls come relatively easy. You find a lvl 99 player and ask them where to lvl. They tell you a book burn in Gusgan Mines. You make your way to Gusgan and its empty. You wait and wait, you put your flag up and wait and its empty. Why? Cause everyone else is afk being burned from lvl 4-99 in a fc pt. So you go out and get some pages and use your emporer ring and continue to lvl on your own or if your lucky one or two other players. And it starts to crawl. It takes longer and longer to get those lvls and all you are doing is fighting ep mobs because you dont know where to solo, or you do not have the survivability to take on dc or em mobs. You get no exp from quests, you get no exp from events, all you can do is fight more rabbits or sheep. You have no subjob cause you cannot farm the items until you get up a ways and there isnt really anyone willing to help new players. You heard you can get to lvl 30 quick in a burn and then 75+ super fast in another burn. But you look at the 50k gil youve earned and see that the price tags for burns run 300k-1m+

Would you stick it out? The game is new to you. You have no idea if it has good endgame or not. Your just checking things out cause you heard it was good or because you like the FF genre.

I'm just saying I find it concerning because we seem to have more outgoing players than incoming. Which is problemsome for the long run. If you have more loss than gain its not a good thing even if its slow.

[Demon6324236]

The thing is your forced to solo from the start in this game because you cant make the money needed for cleaves, wont know enough about the game to get a good start, and overall are likely going to start bored. Other games, especially newer ones, are not like this, people are still joining alot so you would be starting off with the ability to level with other players, ways to make money will be easier to find because you have others at your level & experience to go off of, and the game overall will likely be much more enjoyable to you starting off, than FFXI is.

[Kincard]

I totally get what you're saying, I just don't think a solution is practical at the moment.

Speaking just from my perspective, when I first started playing I had no problems soloing from level 1-15, and that's with the old xp system, without the changes to signet, without super kupowers, all that. I can't imagine soloing to level 30 would be difficult with all the changes they've made. I understand that the MMO market has changed significantly but the only solution to what you're talking about is basically low-level raids that will bequeath xp as well as decently functioning low-level gear, which I doubt they'll ever bother putting in.

[Elphy]

naw they dont have to gimp exp, add any new content or anything, just need to put back into place the whole lvl difference system. Where in a lvl 99 player killing stuff could not garner ppl lvl 4-70ish exp from pages or reg kills. This would bring back at least book burns and give a viable lvling option to even the newest players. It would still be kindda boring but would be fast enough to hopefully hold onto some of the new players and with a bigger demand for lower lvl gear, ppl would maybe start using their spare supplies to start crafting it again. You could still get a job to 99 in a few days but would also let you stay skilled, reducing the need to skill up later and let the playerbase get to know each other with pt chatter, getting newer players ls easier and getting them into endgame faster. And most importantly maybe retain some of this fresh blood.

[Kincard]

I think you're missing the biggest thing about FCs...it isn't just the fact that they get xp quickly, it's the fact that you pay them and get to level a job while AFK. What does this mean?

Most people think leveling up a job isn't fun, and is a hindrance to the actual game content.

So like I said, the only way to fix this is to make rich low/mid level content that also bestows a great amount of xp on the player. Only then will low/mid-level parties might make a comeback. Even then, human laziness may ultimately win people over and they'll just opt to pay a couple mil so they can cleave up to level 99 in 2 days.

[Elphy]

I think you're missing the biggest thing about FCs...it isn't just the fact that they get xp quickly, it's the fact that you pay them and get to level a job while AFK. What does this mean?

Most people think leveling up a job isn't fun, and is a hindrance to the actual game content.


That again just goes back to the current playerbase. If you got a game and found you could be top lvl in a few days by via book burns you would be far more likely to stay. On the other hand the current playerbase would be the ones with the /nerdrage due to us being so spoiled by SE allowing aby/FC exp as long as they have.

They cannot undo the lvling system as it stands, they can however make it more new player friendly

[Xantavia]

I think you're missing the biggest thing about FCs...it isn't just the fact that they get xp quickly, it's the fact that you pay them and get to level a job while AFK. What does this mean?

Most people think leveling up a job isn't fun, and is a hindrance to the actual game content.

So like I said, the only way to fix this is to make rich low/mid level content that also bestows a great amount of xp on the player. Only then will low/mid-level parties might make a comeback. Even then, human laziness may ultimately win people over and they'll just opt to pay a couple mil so they can cleave up to level 99 in 2 days.
There is some of that when it comes to doing missions (not xp though), which I think some people forget. Level caps used to be a great way to tell when something is doable in a group. CoP you can be a contributing member to the early missions as low as 30. Unfortunately, it seems people don't want the challenge anymore (I wouldn't do it at 30 again, 35+ and I'll go), they just get told to level to 99 and steamroll the old stuff. Or not to do it all since its not the best gear rewards.

[Kristal]

The question shouldn't be how those poor newbs are going to get the money to FC burn through the levels. The question should be why SE still hasn't nerfed it. Blinker gilfountain and FC exp have utterly devastated the game.

[Mirage]

Yeah. I mean, it's cool that you can level up rapidly and stuff, but the more of the current playerbase that caps out on merits and exp on all their jobs, the harder it gets for new players to actually get a party to level up their first few jobs.

What sort of a first impression do you think new players get of the game when the first thing they hear is "gain money and pay to get leeched to level cap"? Not a good one, I'd say.

It's just not sustainable in the long run.

[Dragonlord]

They cannot undo the lvling system as it stands, they can however make it more new player friendly

This. The problem isn't FCing, or hard to obtain gil for FCing. Its the other obstacles and the boring startup exp that is the problem. To reference WoW, you start out and go head first into quests designed specifically to get you from 1->6+ (in starter areas). In FFXI, you plop in a city, here's 10gil and an adventurer coupon (yes you get destrier's beret now at least), but there's no structure. You just go kill random stuff for a few hours, that's the problem. Leveling the first 99 job has to be fun, or newcomers will just give up.

[Kincard]

Do you know what did something similar to what I'm talking about? Moblin Maze Mongers. I don't know how many of you actually bothered with the MMM EXPing in the few months it was hot stuff, but that kind of xping is exactly what low levels needed, but it was missing one key component- context. Well that, and ease of access, because only people that had all the important runes could make the damn things.

One weakness FFXI seems to always have is segregating its leveling content and its world lore content. In many other MMOs, you'd get story as you went along your grinding. The downside to that is that eventually it becomes so routine that you don't even notice which quests you're doing are actually interesting, because you're not going to bother reading half of them after you've done "get me 50 goblin taste buds" quests over and over.

Imagine if you could do something that was similar to a assault mission that lasted maybe 30-min to an hour, that had a simple auto-party system built into the lobby (rather than the completely useless one the game has) that ended with a MMM type EXP box and then gave you a storyline cutscene. Sounds great right? Of course, anybody that has stuck around here long enough knows they're not going to do that...especially not for such a top-heavy game as this game has now become, at least not right now, with the limited resources they have.

Even when they have more resources, it probably won't happen simply because a lot of the time they're still designing XI with the same Everquest-era MMO design philosophies as they have for years, and I suspect they think that's what a lot of us want anyway (They're probably right).

[Luvbunny]

Seriously do not understand what is the problem, leveling is soooooooo much easier nowadays. With exp ring and GoV book bonus, you can easily reach to 30 all on your own in a matter of hours. If you are a new players, it's good to solo and explore areas all on your own for at least a good 6-10 hours of game time to get used to the game mechanic. There are still tons of people soloing or duo-ing, as well as LS who are quite newbie friendly. The assault-moblin maze-meeble burrow type activities for low level is actually a great idea but maybe not at level 4-30. This is is good for level 30-50. They should just make it that assault give you 10k points of exp upon completion when you level cap it. And they should just make it that you can do it via abyssea system. Meaning your tags accumulated the minute you started the assault CS. This way you can spam it later.

[Kristal]

This is is good for level 30-50.

Uhm... the levels go from 1-30 then 99. There is no 31-98 anymore.

[Plasticleg]

What ever happened to people joining a linkshell and finding out about the game by their own will, not spoonfed.

Also, no one likes/liked leveling ever. If those were your shinning moments in previous visits to Vana'diel, I can rest assured that you never did level 75 group content, or you did it to the point that it became a job.

[Areayea]

I just say they need to either rid of fell cleave or gimp it beyond belief >.>, it's making players dummies at their jobs... and making them think their bad ass, when in reality if they tried to hit a mob with any weapon... *Skefjiojr misses the Wild Rabbit" or horrible cures/enfeebles/weak black magic, I'm just saying, not completely hating, but that's how you take the lazies away.

[Aldersyde]

Yay, more people calling for nerfs!

[Demon6324236]

Well really I cant complain about that because even if you suck at a job at 99, it often shows in your gear.

[Plasticleg]

Well really I cant complain about that because even if you suck at a job at 99, it often shows in your gear.

^this^
plus your reputation says quite a bit.

[Thorbean]

IDK about that. With all the blinkering that was going on, any gimp could spend 2-3 weeks in a worm party, switch the cruor to gil and buy an Emp/Relic weapon without so much as touching a pop set or Dynamis. Not that worm partys are bad, or only bad players are in worm partys. It's a great way to grind out a few merits if you decide to switch some stats around to suit your newest favoured job or whatever.

On the flip side, the people who took the time to level their job and learn to play it well without exploiting the system are overlooked or shunned from alot of content PUG's. Most of the time, these players are leaps and bounds ahead of many better geared players simply because the job comes naturally through the various encounters throughout the leveling process.

You really can't tell how good a player is until you actually party with them.

[Xantavia]

On the flip side, the people who took the time to level their job and learn to play it well without exploiting the system are overlooked or shunned from alot of content PUG's. Most of the time, these players are leaps and bounds ahead of many better geared players simply because the job comes naturally through the various encounters throughout the leveling process.

You really can't tell how good a player is until you actually party with them.
Reminds me of the perle bst I saw in Kuftal tunnel a few weeks back. They got aggro'd by a robber crab, and actually zoned it before coming back to use the grounds tome. It is one of the few times I /facepalmed. I guess tame and/or charm don't actually exist anymore.

[Etrigan]

Well really I cant complain about that because even if you suck at a job at 99, it often shows in your gear.

I can agree with this to a point but the one thing that people often see is that skill = gear and it really is not the case at all, if anything gear = luck and skill = skill.

I have seen RDMs go out and acquire everything in the realm of Avesta, wear it in town, etc etc and not only can they not solo their way out of a paper bag, they had someone else beat Maat for them, AND don't have the balls to pop chainspell in tight situations.

[Demon6324236]

I wasn't saying that good gear = good player. Just in general, you can tell a perle geared player likely does not know a ton about what they are doing, the same can be said of people in pink & teal. That does not mean that someone in full +2 with an Emp is a badass, they could easily suck. I myself am an example, I do not know a ton about COR, however have wanted to make a gun for the simple reason of basic use in VW for COR. But in general 1 way of telling if someone knows their job or not is their gear, and part of that also is in how to gear the job.

[Fynlar]

This game has become entirely to unfriendly to new players

Is this a joke?

Doubled EXP, FoV/GoV pages and buffs, Signet protection, skillup change, dirt cheap Instant Warps... the list goes on, all of these are things available to new players that were not available to me, and likely many others here when we started playing the game. It is *significantly* easier to get started nowadays. The catch is, they have to play a lot more catch-up. In a type of game that's forever moving onward as time goes by, this is kinda inevitable.

The game is itself very nice to newbies comparatively to how it was back then. The real issue is having a top-heavy playerbase, not the game itself.

[Demon6324236]

While you are correct you are also incorrect, back when all of that didn't exist, you had other players around lower levels, now for your 1st 60~70 levels you have no one except a potential GoV party.

[Ezikiel]

Reminds me of the perle bst I saw in Kuftal tunnel a few weeks back. They got aggro'd by a robber crab, and actually zoned it before coming back to use the grounds tome. It is one of the few times I /facepalmed. I guess tame and/or charm don't actually exist anymore.

Stop i peed my self laughing at this idiot. I got one even dumber there was a lvl 99 BST askin for help on Dark Spark the NM for bst hands.

[Fynlar]

While you are correct you are also incorrect, back when all of that didn't exist, you had other players around lower levels,

Again, that is a result of the playerbase becoming top-heavy, not a result of the game "becoming unfriendly". The game itself is much more friendly to new players than it was to the old ones.

[Kristal]

I just say they need to either rid of fell cleave or gimp it beyond belief >.>, it's making players dummies at their jobs... and making them think their bad ass, when in reality if they tried to hit a mob with any weapon... *Skefjiojr misses the Wild Rabbit" or horrible cures/enfeebles/weak black magic, I'm just saying, not completely hating, but that's how you take the lazies away.

Solution is simpler then that. Just scale exp gained from abyssea xp chains and pyxis towards the highest level.
It's too late now, obviously, as it should have been like that from the start.