Possible Haste II, can we get some Qualitative Enhancing Buffs?

[ManaKing]

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/28391-Buff-Other-Support-jobs?p=376102#post376102

We might get Haste II. Maybe not. Looks like the Dev team might be trying to add to the spell lists, which means we might get new spells.

I'm happy enough for now. I personally would like my 500+ Enhancing magic to go towards more potent buffs. Obviously, I'd like Haste II to be in some way based on Enhancing Skill. Makes it more fun for people that like to gear their mages well.

[Lilia]

Haste 2 for rdm never~ rdm is the OP job forever.....

But i hope were become new spells

[Calatilla]

Just watch them give it to Geomancer only

[saevel]

Nope it'll be WHM only. Watch lol.

[Demon6324236]

New Enhancing spells that I would like to see.

Haste II
- Free Target.
- 3 Minute Duration.
- Enhancing Magic Skill/50+15=Magic Haste gained, capping at 500 skill for 25%.

Brave
- Self Target.
- 3 Minute Duration.
- 10 Second Cast Time.
- 5 Minute Recast Time.
- Follows same equation as Temper, except the stats gained are Attack & Accuracy instead of Double Attack.
- Overwrites Faith.

Faith
- Self Target.
- 3 Minute Duration.
- 10 Second Cast Time.
- 5 Minute Recast Time.
- Follows same equation as Temper, except the stats gained are Magic Attack & Magic Accuracy instead of Double Attack.
- Overwrites Brave.

Stoneskin II
- Party Target.
- 5 Minute Duration.
- 10 Second Cast Time
- 60 Second Recast Time
- Follows the same equation as Stoneskin however caps at 600, and gains double potency from Stoneskin gear.
- Party members this spell is cast on, receive the full effects of any Stoneskin gear equip by the caster.
- Can be Augmented with special gear to effect all party members in range.

Blink II
- Party Target.
- 5 Minute Duration.
- 6 Second Cast Time
- 30 Second Recast Time
- Enhancing Magic Skill/100=Shadows gained.
- Can be Augmented with special gear to effect all party members in range.

[saevel]

Good idea, BAD casting times. Don't think you quite know how long 30s is (the recast is trivial to reduce).

Honestly every spell in this game needs it's casting time halved, people are not paying money to stare at their character while watching a bar slowly crawl across the screen.

[Tennotsukai]

Not bad ideas, though I agree that those casting times are too long. I feel like there should be a stronger focus on enfeebles. perhaps a spell that lowers magic resist?

[Demon6324236]

The point in the long cast times is so that it is not seen as over powered because RDM would be able to swap its focus to easily. Besides, taking into account a Fast Cast set, you can take that 30 seconds down to a small 6 seconds with correct gear. Only basic gear (AF Hat, Relic+2 Body) is needed to cut it in half. I wouldn't be opposed to it being shorter, but I think it seems somewhat fair given RDM's already very fast casting & the fact these spells would allow you to massively boost either your melee or your magic, this simply prevents swapping on the fly like a SCH does with Light/Dark Arts.

Edit:Also the recast wouldn't matter much to be reduced either, unless you mean just for swapping between them, in which case thats all the more reason for the cast time to be so high. The 3 minute duration is easily enhanced via Composure & gear to put it at roughly 12~13 minutes or so.

[Babekeke]

More likely to get these as a JA working similar to how Innin and Yonin work, sharing recast timer, but having a longer duration than recast, but slowly decaying.

[saevel]

The point in the long cast times is so that it is not seen as over powered because RDM would be able to swap its focus to easily. Besides, taking into account a Fast Cast set, you can take that 30 seconds down to a small 6 seconds with correct gear. Only basic gear (AF Hat, Relic+2 Body) is needed to cut it in half. I wouldn't be opposed to it being shorter, but I think it seems somewhat fair given RDM's already very fast casting & the fact these spells would allow you to massively boost either your melee or your magic, this simply prevents swapping on the fly like a SCH does with Light/Dark Arts.

Edit:Also the recast wouldn't matter much to be reduced either, unless you mean just for swapping between them, in which case thats all the more reason for the cast time to be so high. The 3 minute duration is easily enhanced via Composure & gear to put it at roughly 12~13 minutes or so.

Long casting times make the spells effectively useless. Their effect isn't high enough to justify it.

[Demon6324236]

6 seconds cast time for 12 minutes of +20% Attack/Acc? As I said, I wouldn't be opposed to it being shorter, but I simply say that because of "balance", and I much rather this, and self target/non-accession balance than SE's brand of Balance they would place upon such spells.

[saevel]

6 seconds cast time for 12 minutes of +20% Attack/Acc? As I said, I wouldn't be opposed to it being shorter, but I simply say that because of "balance", and I much rather this, and self target/non-accession balance than SE's brand of Balance they would place upon such spells.

Reread your post, you had it at 30s cast time not 6s. 6s is fine, but 30s of you standing there waving your hands in the air is kinda stupid. Can't even use max FC set as you want to hit 500 enhancing for maximum potency (I'm assuming this is all based on enhancing skill for potency).

Honestly like I've said, casting times for all magic needs to be significantly reduced. In this day MMO's are expected to be a bit faster paced, your moving and interacting instead of standing there role playing while watching pretty animations.

[Demon6324236]

30 seconds - 80% (for precast/fast cast set at start) = 6 seconds.

Potency of spells is based off of Enhancing skill at the time of the cast finishing, 6 seconds is plenty of time to change from whatever gear your in to your enhancing gear, unless you use no macros. Meaning capping Fast Cast & getting this off in 6 seconds would be fairly easy. I already stated my reasons for the cast time though, so take it as you will. I myself would rather SE put it on a 30 second cast time rather than give it half potency, 1 minute duration, or have it as a "SP" spell with our new ability.

[saevel]

30 seconds - 80% (for precast/fast cast set at start) = 6 seconds.

Potency of spells is based off of Enhancing skill at the time of the cast finishing, 6 seconds is plenty of time to change from whatever gear your in to your enhancing gear, unless you use no macros. Meaning capping Fast Cast & getting this off in 6 seconds would be fairly easy. I already stated my reasons for the cast time though, so take it as you will. I myself would rather SE put it on a 30 second cast time rather than give it half potency, 1 minute duration, or have it as a "SP" spell with our new ability.

/sigh

You need to design things around people who aren't using SC XML's. Your not changing 10~18 pieces of gear twice on each spell, not enough macro lines available to do that.

So ABSOLUTELY NO 30s cast times. Stupid idea. 6~12s, no biggie.

[Ordoric]

blm gets ele magic cast -, whm gets healing mag cast- why can rdm not have enhance magic cast-

[Demon6324236]

We have Enfeebling Magic - on our head, but it casts so fast it doesn't matter much anyways. Thankfully the Siegel Sash is a nice -8% Enhancing Magic Cast Time, but I do wish we had something with good Enhancing Magic Skill on it with some -cast time.

Just to say, 6 seconds is enough time to hit 2~3 normal macros easily, besides, idk how your Fast Cast/Enhancing looks but the body/head stay the same for me, which make up a bulk of the Fast Cast as well as alot of Enhancing on the body, at most the things you would need to change are Hands, Legs, Feet, Back, Neck, and Belt. Thats 6 items, 1 macro after you start casting, thats a total of +81, 404+81=485, merits for +16 to make 501, capped potency. Nothing to do with Windower, Spellcast, or anything else, 6 pieces of gear can be swapped from a Fast Cast build to your "Brave/Faith Build" and you will cap potency, and that Fast Cast you still have around your gear, would still be great for your recast. I did think things out before I typed out my ideas, its not that what I suggest is impossible, its just that the cast time seems to high, I understand that, if SE were to do it and its shorter, I'm more than happy to accept that, but I think they would make it weaker because you could swap between the 2 quickly, so I suggest this instead.

[Ophannus]

Can't be accessionable. The rule for which spells are Accesionable is: If a SCH doesn't learn it natively or through any level subjob, it's not accessionable. Accessionable spells are spells SCH learns as SCH main or through < Lv. 49 subjob spells. It would be impossible for RDM to acquire a spell that can be used with Accession that SCH wouldn't gain as well.

[sweetidealism]

New Enhancing spells that I would like to see.

Haste II
- Free Target.
- 3 Minute Duration.
- Enhancing Magic Skill/50+15=Magic Haste gained, capping at 500 skill for 25%.

Brave
- Self Target.
- 3 Minute Duration.
- 30 Second Cast Time.
- 5 Minute Recast Time.
- Follows same equation as Temper, except the stats gained are Attack, Accuracy & Critical Hit Rate instead of Double Attack.
- Overwrites Faith.

Faith
- Self Target.
- 3 Minute Duration.
- 30 Second Cast Time.
- 5 Minute Recast Time.
- Follows same equation as Temper, except the stats gained are Magic Attack Bonus, Magic Accuracy, Magic Critical Hit Rate instead of Double Attack.
- Overwrites Brave.

Stoneskin II
- Party Target.
- 5 Minute Duration.
- Follows the same equation as Stoneskin however caps at 600, and gains double potency from Stoneskin gear.
- Party members this spell is cast on, receive the full effects of any Stoneskin gear equip by the caster.
- Can be Accessioned with /SCH to effect all members in range.

Blink II
- Party Target.
- 5 Minute Duration.
- Enhancing Magic Skill/70=Shadows gained.
- Can be Accessioned with /SCH to effect all members in range.

I've put my suggested changes in bold. The critical hit rate probably ought to follow a separate equation as +20% critical hit rate may be a bit much, but I think it would be fun to add that, too.

I would want Faith and Brave to overwrite each other just for the sake of convenience. I feel we have enough buffs that we need to remove manually as it is.

Another idea: in Final Fantasy Tactics, having high faith made you more susceptible to magic attacks. One could perhaps justify further increasing the potency of a spell iteration of Faith if one were to also add a penalty to Magic Defense Bonus to it.

You could, then, also apply that logic to Brave: increase its potency, but add a penalty to defense.

I like the idea of Stoneskin II and Blink II being party target spells, similar to Phalanx II. What should their cooldowns be, though?

With your equation, 500 skill would cause Blink II to provide 7 shadows. I feel this is reasonable, but how would it interact with Utsusemi? Currently, if you cast Blink with Accession, if a party member in range has Copy Images from Utsusemi, Blink will have no effect on them.

Should Blink II have a higher priority than Utsusemi and overwrite it? Although it provides more shadows, this could be dangerous, because unlike Utsusemi, Blink doesn't always absorb damage.

Should Blink II instead be able to stack with Utsusemi? If it did stack, would Blink II try to absorb damage before Utsusemi, or vice versa?

Should Utsusemi block Blink II? This would be consistent with Blink, but likely disappoint many Red Mages who would rather be able to utilize their full arsenal of defensive spells on all kinds of tanks, including those that primarily rely on evasion.

[Demon6324236]

I was meaning for them to overwrite eachother but thank you for pointing that out, it would be rather annoying to need to keep taking one off to cast the other. Weakening your defense for the enhancement doesn't sound all to bad, though currently defensive things seem kinda pointless so it would be all to much of a penalty anyways. Cooldowns should be the same, blink may need to be a bit longer because the 7 cap would be quite powerful. Blink II>Blink=Utsusemi, basically, 2 should overwrite 1, however Utsusemi should be as it is now, if you have 1 up the other does not effect you. It would be nice for them to stack, but then I see it being used as a reason not to get it, because SE would have to do more work to add another check for shadows. Sadly if you can't Accession those spells I suppose it would be fine to leave them as just party target spells, lowers its effect in events like ADL or Legion though where having a 900ish Stoneskin on everyone at the start of the battle, would have been helpful. And I think since Blink has the random factor in it about when it kicks in, it makes it better to have more shadows actually as a backup for that flaw, however that is dependent on skill, it could end up with more than a NIN's 5 from Ni+Feet, or less.

[Metaking]

would have to be a little different that mdef down on faith, that effect(in fft) made all magic positive(cure spells) or negative (mini van sized ice cubes to the head) more effective on the target. also would you add faiths negative counterpart.

[Crimson_Slasher]

I thought of something that would be kinda cool for rdm but its too powerful. It would be either self-target spell or JA or if other targets, mages strictly. Echo. Effect in a nutshell, it turns cures or nukes into say a 3 tic DOT/HOT. Lets use thunder IV and Cure IV as examples, lets assume a modest 1000 damage thunder IV and a 600 Cure IV. Once cast the spell would take effect as normal initially, however 3 seconds later would repeat at half potency, then quarter potency another 3 seconds later. So thunder would inflict 1000 > 500 > 250 for a grand total of 1750, and that same cure IV would heal 1050 hp. Too strong, likely best a single cast per use, or short durration but i thought id share the idea.

[ManaKing]

I thought of something that would be kinda cool for rdm but its too powerful. It would be either self-target spell or JA or if other targets, mages strictly. Echo. Effect in a nutshell, it turns cures or nukes into say a 3 tic DOT/HOT. Lets use thunder IV and Cure IV as examples, lets assume a modest 1000 damage thunder IV and a 600 Cure IV. Once cast the spell would take effect as normal initially, however 3 seconds later would repeat at half potency, then quarter potency another 3 seconds later. So thunder would inflict 1000 > 500 > 250 for a grand total of 1750, and that same cure IV would heal 1050 hp. Too strong, likely best a single cast per use, or short durration but i thought id share the idea.

I'm going to make you a thread for this one.

[Hashmalum]

I thought of something that would be kinda cool for rdm but its too powerful. It would be either self-target spell or JA or if other targets, mages strictly. Echo. Effect in a nutshell, it turns cures or nukes into say a 3 tic DOT/HOT. Lets use thunder IV and Cure IV as examples, lets assume a modest 1000 damage thunder IV and a 600 Cure IV. Once cast the spell would take effect as normal initially, however 3 seconds later would repeat at half potency, then quarter potency another 3 seconds later. So thunder would inflict 1000 > 500 > 250 for a grand total of 1750, and that same cure IV would heal 1050 hp. Too strong, likely best a single cast per use, or short durration but i thought id share the idea.Since they've decided that ______ over time effects are SCH's niche now, watch them give this to SCH. I'm surprised they haven't taken Refresh away from us yet.

[Hashmalum]

Can't be accessionable. The rule for which spells are Accesionable is: If a SCH doesn't learn it natively or through any level subjob, it's not accessionable. Accessionable spells are spells SCH learns as SCH main or through < Lv. 49 subjob spells. It would be impossible for RDM to acquire a spell that can be used with Accession that SCH wouldn't gain as well.Except for Haste, which is absolutely subjobbable as SCH but can't be Accessioned anyway. That shows that SE can make any spell they like Accessionable or not, at their whim, regardless of any "rules".

[ManaKing]

I would like our enhancing magic to be focused on qualitative buffs that give us a unique position in a party. If we get Haste II, I want us to be the best at it and I don't want to be a cross that RDMs are nailed to because Embrava-hungry DPS can force us into it. I would recommend making it AOE so that RDM doesn't have to waste all of their time focusing on who gets what next and making it so that our ability to make enhancing magic last longer is valued. Make it so that you only need 1 RDM per alliance, but that you would be silly not to bring one. Just like they are doing with BRD.

Most RDMs don't have a desire to be a BRD or other dedicated support, otherwise we would already be playing one. Since they are better at support. The same goes for melee DPS. If any of the people here wanted to be a normal DPS, they would have just picked up WAR and been great at what they wanted to do because WAR is great at what it does. RDM would like to be good at what it does, or could be doing.


I've put my suggested changes in bold. The critical hit rate probably ought to follow a separate equation as +20% critical hit rate may be a bit much, but I think it would be fun to add that, too.


Brave and Faith are getting old....
The reason it's never going to happen is that Brave would give us access to full melee specs even though we have composure, enspells, phallanx, haste, Temper, and gain spells. Those are supposed to make up for our lower skill caps. Obviously, they aren't adequate, but having both Temper and Brave would invalidate the reason for RDM having Enhancing magic, since then you would be statistically similar to a WAR + magical proficiencies. If you want to play a WAR, you can, but you obviously don't want to, because you are posting in RDM forums.

RDM isn't a melee DPS. That doesn't mean it can't contribute to damage, but SE should not care that a RDM can't WS as hard as a relevant melee DPS with a physical WS, because RDMs aren't actually melee DPS. RDM are Hybrid mages that have decent melee capabilities because they augment themselves with spells. A RDM can gear to the point of being almost viable, but they still aren't going to be viable against high tier boss type monsters because then RDM would be broken and maybe everyone would play RDM again.

If you want RDM to actually be RDM, then actually think about what niche we have been in the past. No, I'm not talking about refresh/haste bot. I'm talking about a bee stinger or a ceremonial dagger. People were willing to trade their normal melee damage and TP gain for sustained/safe magic damage against mobs. These RDMs were obviously exploiting the game, but at the same time they were doing something that actually makes sense for the job: DPSing like a MAGE.

Why do you need something like Brave when you could ask for Enspells that would bridge the skill gap, like it did originally? I would love a Tier of Enspells that converted auto attacks to magic damage. Elemental Formless Strikes. Monks don't lose their TP gain when they do formless strikes, neither should we. We could still be a front-line fighter, but we would have a specialization: Magic DPS. Mob has High Defense? Not a problem. Can't use physical WSs as well as actual DPS....duh?

RDM is a hybrid mage job that lacks synergy. We fail because there was no reason for RDM to have access to most of the skills in the game, just to be bad at all of them. We get nothing out of knowing 6 different magic skills and just as many combat skills nor are we definitively the best at any of them. We don't even get traits like Occult Accumen or WSs like Shatter Soul to compliment our ambiguous status of being a hybrid. If we don't have anything unique and useful to offer, nothing will ever change. We need a niche.

I personally want our niche to be magical DPS with a very small assortment of useful, alliance-wide buffs. Debuffing being relevant would be amazing, but it seems very subjective to the whims of content development. I really wish that I could help my entire alliance with Haste II every 8 minutes, give Phallanx the same treatment, and then contribute to damage and debuffing. I really want us to be able to debuff magic defense so that we can specialize at contributing to magical damage in an alliance.

[Kitkat]

Aside from the fact that the very same statement you make about rdm not being a war applies in the magical damage department as rdm isn't a blm or sch (hell, even a drk with no mab traits has higher elemental skill than rdm). If you want to do magical DPS then be a blm or Sch since not only do they get access to higher tiers of spells, in any case I've seen both will out damage a rdm nuke for nuke where our fast cast traits just don't make up the difference in.

The only proficiency we ever excelled in has been turned into a laughing stalk due to other jobs having access to similar enfeebles or that we have to put 5/5 merit worth into select spells that should have been scrolls to begin with. Any new enfeeble spell rdm has gained access to has been also handed off to other jobs. Despite our natively higher enhancing skill, whm and sch excel at this far better than a rdm since they too can get to the same 500 cap we can by use of sch AB and gear. What little enhancing spells we do get that other jobs don't, we can only use on ourselves to make up for something we personally lack.

[Sunrider]

Its interesting to think: DRK has respectable B Elemental Skill, but no traits or spell tiers to make good use of it, while RDM has respectable B Sword skill, but no great traits or native Weapon Skills to make use of it.

[tyrantsyn]

You know it goes to show the level of disbelief ppl have become a custom to here on the forums. When it comes down from the Dev's that there looking into giving RDM Haste II and everyone pretty much believe's some other job will end up with it. Even tho most ppl here that have been pushing for years trying to get unique spell's for the job. It's just completely un believable they might actually get one.

[Kitkat]

That is because other spells that were rdm only originally were then taken away and given to whm (and then more so to sch IE: Regen), or new additions were made less effective/potent due to Merit point restrictions, or that later new spells were then handed off to whm once lvl cap raised again. That isn't even touching on the fact that another one of the spells they gave to us is nigh useless on any endgame content due to full resistance (IE Gravity II).

Given SE's track record with Rdm thus far you can't really blame people for being suspicious when a community rep drops a vague statement that we might get haste II.

[Crimson_Slasher]

No surprise I would be the one to say something on rdm melee behalf, but brave does have a downfall that prevents us from hitting that "Warriorlike" level of combat proficency. Durration, It must be recasted to make us effective. Durration may be long but with all our other buffs our "warmup" time is longer, a warrior can be ready on a moment's notice. Not to mention the higher damage 2handed weapons. Not that it pushes them insanely above rdm in the situation but rdm still needs more preptime and needs to fully reprep.

[tyrantsyn]

That is because other spells that were rdm only originally were then taken away and given to whm (and then more so to sch IE: Regen), or new additions were made less effective/potent due to Merit point restrictions, or that later new spells were then handed off to whm once lvl cap raised again. That isn't even touching on the fact that another one of the spells they gave to us is nigh useless on any endgame content due to full resistance (IE Gravity II).

Given SE's track record with Rdm thus far you can't really blame people for being suspicious when a community rep drops a vague statement that we might get haste II.
Thank you for that first part, being a veteran of these forums I had no idea how screw over the job class is. Even tho I was pointing out how funny it is no one can even look at something like this in a good way any more. I guess I needed that explain to me so I could understand ppl pain. :p

[Demon6324236]

I'm personally on a "Ill believe it when I see it" basis with SE currently.

[ManaKing]

Aside from the fact that the very same statement you make about rdm not being a war applies in the magical damage department as rdm isn't a blm or sch (hell, even a drk with no mab traits has higher elemental skill than rdm). If you want to do magical DPS then be a blm or Sch since not only do they get access to higher tiers of spells, in any case I've seen both will out damage a rdm nuke for nuke where our fast cast traits just don't make up the difference in.

The only proficiency we ever excelled in has been turned into a laughing stalk due to other jobs having access to similar enfeebles or that we have to put 5/5 merit worth into select spells that should have been scrolls to begin with. Any new enfeeble spell rdm has gained access to has been also handed off to other jobs. Despite our natively higher enhancing skill, whm and sch excel at this far better than a rdm since they too can get to the same 500 cap we can by use of sch AB and gear. What little enhancing spells we do get that other jobs don't, we can only use on ourselves to make up for something we personally lack.

Then answer the question, what can we do that other jobs can't do?

Only thing that actually comes to mind is Phallanx, Stoneskin, Utsu rotations. BLM and SCH aren't tough because they weren't designed to be tough. They also aren't sustained DPS. They are all burst or long term DoTs. RDM can be both tough and sustained DPS, if there is a desire for front line magical damage because SE makes Mobs that require it.



No surprise I would be the one to say something on rdm melee behalf, but brave does have a downfall that prevents us from hitting that "Warriorlike" level of combat proficency. Durration, It must be recasted to make us effective. Durration may be long but with all our other buffs our "warmup" time is longer, a warrior can be ready on a moment's notice. Not to mention the higher damage 2handed weapons. Not that it pushes them insanely above rdm in the situation but rdm still needs more preptime and needs to fully reprep.

That's why I don't really want us to try for something we are going to fail at anyways. Brave wouldn't make us better at melee than BLU, much less real DDs. Why would you want an ability that continues to make you only average at something you weren't designed to be specialized in anyways?

RDM can actually bring something different with buffs to enspells, instead of more of the same. We have Temper, which works beautifully with enspell 1s and would be very beneficial if RDM gained an enspell version of formless strikes.

[Babekeke]

You know it goes to show the level of disbelief ppl have become a custom to here on the forums. When it comes down from the Dev's that there looking into giving RDM Haste II and everyone pretty much believe's some other job will end up with it. Even tho most ppl here that have been pushing for years trying to get unique spell's for the job. It's just completely un believable they might actually get one.

RDM suggestion Forums translates as "SCH RNF GEO WHM BLM Suggestion forums".

I'm going to laugh so hard if Brave comes out and it's WHM RDM SCH, and Faith is BLM RDM SCH lol.

[saevel]

RDM suggestion Forums translates as "SCH RNF GEO WHM BLM Suggestion forums".

I'm going to laugh so hard if Brave comes out and it's WHM RDM SCH, and Faith is BLM RDM SCH lol.

Pretty much. Damn near everything suggested on this forum has been integrated into a different job. They rarely answer any of our questions and pretty much just ignore RDM. I'm also fairly positive the CR's have a blanket order from the Dev's to not even bother translating / relaying any message related to RDM.

[tyrantsyn]

RDM suggestion Forums translates as "SCH RNF GEO WHM BLM Suggestion forums".

I'm going to laugh so hard if Brave comes out and it's WHM RDM SCH, and Faith is BLM RDM SCH lol.
That would be some truly sad shit

[Kitkat]

Then answer the question, what can we do that other jobs can't do?

Only thing that actually comes to mind is Phallanx, Stoneskin, Utsu rotations. BLM and SCH aren't tough because they weren't designed to be tough. They also aren't sustained DPS. They are all burst or long term DoTs. RDM can be both tough and sustained DPS, if there is a desire for front line magical damage because SE makes Mobs that require it.


And I ask you, how does that apply in any way, shape, or form to a party setting let alone and endgame setting? I get it, really I do. I have melee gear right along with my mage gear for rdm, but I also see the big difference that is made when participating in harder content. The job is built in a way that it caters better to itself than it does a party, and what little it used to excel at within a party setting has been passed out via Sub-job, or in the form of spells, or JA specific to other jobs that make them far more beneficial to a party than a rdm can even hope to be.

Wooo, we get enspells...on harder content they are subject to -mdt/mdb, level corrections, and are based on our ability to maintain a high enough accuracy as well. Composure gives us some extra accuracy, but not nearly enough to hold up against other melees who already have that base and get additional traits etc. This touches back on your statement that a rdm is not a warrior and if that is what you want you should go be a warrior, since enspells rely heavily on 2 factors: Our melee accuracy to actually hit so it can activate, and to not be resisted due to -mdt/mdb and level corrections.

Yes, we get phalanx and stoneskin (and if you so wish...Phalanx II) and get a nice complementary of -pdt and some -mdt gear, but you are not a tank. You don't generate nearly enough hate off anything in your arsenal to perform as a tank, you can't rely on secondary melee dmg for hate and maintain sustainability over other options. This is once again something that holds better in duo/trio settings than it will in any endgame/event play.

So...tossing your words back at you...Rdm isn't designed to be desired while whm, sch, blm, smn, etc...etc is. Trying to restore it to being a desirable job would require a great deal of sacrifice and good deal of changes in my opinion on SE's part. I would much rather see them totally remove every damn spell they have currently as Tier II merits and give them to us naturally as scrolls with full potency of 5/5. Then give us something better suited to "pick and choose" for complimenting the job. We aren't 75 anymore, not to mention being the only class with A+ enfeeble we should have gotten tier II/III line naturally to begin with. Had there been forums back when they made these category II merits I'm sure this would have been the biggest issue for rdm since it didn't make (and still doesn't) any sense to give these options in merit form when other jobs get access to Tier I's from subjobs/main already.

Can't counter with the often used "well blm had to pick and choose for AM2" since no other job gets access to AM through primary or subjob (even at 99) other than blm. In their case AM2 makes a little more sense. I will agree that whm should have gotten different options other than protectra/shellra V as merits also since the single target spells already exist in scroll form. This is laziness on SE's part and more proof they need to stop, take a deep breath, then fix everything that is currently screwed up instead of continuously jumping further and further into the fire with shoddy excuses of content/adjustments months down the road.

[ManaKing]

And I ask you, how does that apply in any way, shape, or form to a party setting let alone and endgame setting? I get it, really I do. I have melee gear right along with my mage gear for rdm, but I also see the big difference that is made when participating in harder content. The job is built in a way that it caters better to itself than it does a party, and what little it used to excel at within a party setting has been passed out via Sub-job, or in the form of spells, or JA specific to other jobs that make them far more beneficial to a party than a rdm can even hope to be.

Wooo, we get enspells...on harder content they are subject to -mdt/mdb, level corrections, and are based on our ability to maintain a high enough accuracy as well. Composure gives us some extra accuracy, but not nearly enough to hold up against other melees who already have that base and get additional traits etc. This touches back on your statement that a rdm is not a warrior and if that is what you want you should go be a warrior, since enspells rely heavily on 2 factors: Our melee accuracy to actually hit so it can activate, and to not be resisted due to -mdt/mdb and level corrections.

Yes, we get phalanx and stoneskin (and if you so wish...Phalanx II) and get a nice complementary of -pdt and some -mdt gear, but you are not a tank. You don't generate nearly enough hate off anything in your arsenal to perform as a tank, you can't rely on secondary melee dmg for hate and maintain sustainability over other options. This is once again something that holds better in duo/trio settings than it will in any endgame/event play.

So...tossing your words back at you...Rdm isn't designed to be desired while whm, sch, blm, smn, etc...etc is. Trying to restore it to being a desirable job would require a great deal of sacrifice and good deal of changes in my opinion on SE's part. I would much rather see them totally remove every damn spell they have currently as Tier II merits and give them to us naturally as scrolls with full potency of 5/5. Then give us something better suited to "pick and choose" for complimenting the job. We aren't 75 anymore, not to mention being the only class with A+ enfeeble we should have gotten tier II/III line naturally to begin with. Had there been forums back when they made these category II merits I'm sure this would have been the biggest issue for rdm since it didn't make (and still doesn't) any sense to give these options in merit form when other jobs get access to Tier I's from subjobs/main already.

Can't counter with the often used "well blm had to pick and choose for AM2" since no other job gets access to AM through primary or subjob (even at 99) other than blm. In their case AM2 makes a little more sense. I will agree that whm should have gotten different options other than protectra/shellra V as merits also since the single target spells already exist in scroll form. This is laziness on SE's part and more proof they need to stop, take a deep breath, then fix everything that is currently screwed up instead of continuously jumping further and further into the fire with shoddy excuses of content/adjustments months down the road.

You get a thumbs up and a bravo from me, because I feel in a similar manner on most of what you speak of. Merits have always been a travesty and i honestly don't know if SE will ever adjust them. It seems unlikely since we have AF 2+2.


Wooo, we get enspells...on harder content they are subject to -mdt/mdb, level corrections, and are based on our ability to maintain a high enough accuracy as well. Composure gives us some extra accuracy, but not nearly enough to hold up against other melees who already have that base and get additional traits etc. This touches back on your statement that a rdm is not a warrior and if that is what you want you should go be a warrior, since enspells rely heavily on 2 factors: Our melee accuracy to actually hit so it can activate, and to not be resisted due to -mdt/mdb and level corrections.


I only point out Enspells because they are something that could easily be improved, much like our Accuracy with very small adjustments to Composure. OBVIOUSLY against -mdt mobs we wouldn't be effective, that would be the direct counter to the adjustments I'm talking about.

But against High Defense Mobs, aka one of our current issues, we would. We would gain something by having some level of specialization. We wouldn't be the best at everything, but I'm not asking for that because it's unreasonable.

I don't see us as a tank, but a tough unit that doesn't need the same maintenance as other jobs. When we get hit with terrible things we don't instantly die like most mages and some other jobs. We can exist on the front lines. If we are allowed to have a niche, then we can flourish in it as opposed to where we currently are, which is floundering in obscurity.

[Kitkat]

In all honesty they are something that could have easily been changed had they never tampered with formula and released the tier II line so that it acted just like the Tier I line (IE: activate on all hits of main+offhand and not change based on current enhancing thus not changing once you remove +enhancing gear). You then have to think back on when a sword that used to both work in offhand and affect both hands enspell damage (I think it did, can't remember now) was then nerfed because SE deemed it "too powerful" toning it down so it only worked on hand holding the sword.

In all honesty I can't see SE doing anything to buff our enspells to what you envision due to the fact that every chance of doing so that they have had up to this point, they haven't. Tier II's are an utter disappointment, Tier I's growth beyond 200 enhancing skill is abysmal, and most all gear that gives enhances to it either need be equipped under awkward conditions or aren't best suited in the slot you can wear them in (better sword options, better ear options). Composure comes with its own issues not to mention coupled with our own B+ rated melee skills.

Ninja edit in: This is also considering that it won't empower enspells when used via /rdm once again making Sch the prefered option over a rdm in said spot since they can just get the adjusted benifit and still have 500 Skill tier just like rdm with option to make it AOE. This is possibly the biggest oversight I see in your vision /ninjaedit

In this vision of enhancement it would require that several things be amended to make it viable on higher end content that has idiotic defense rating, but takes at least standard/normal magical damage. Our melee skills would possibly need to have one at least raised to A- range, Enspells (both tiers) would need to go over some recalculation of damage output and behavior (not be affected as much by level correction) and somehow change the view of the player base who has all but ostracized rdm due to SE's choice to make enfeebling nigh pointless/useless compared to letting mages less proficient at it toss on a Tier I (or in Dia case II) rather then waste a spot on a rdm.

[ManaKing]

+1'd again and agrees.

The counter to your Ninja Edit is that if they make a 3rd Tier of Enspells or just rework Enspell 2s, then you can't SCH/RDM them.

The enhancing sword and chimeric fleuret both used to work on either hand for both hands. Your memory serves correct. Also, the only other sources of +Enspell damage is earrings and rings.....neither of which are ever worth giving up unless you can't dual wield. I agree that it is very counter productive and doesn't leave RDM in a very desirable situation at the present.

[Carth]

We have Enfeebling Magic - on our head, but it casts so fast it doesn't matter much anyways. Thankfully the Siegel Sash is a nice -8% Enhancing Magic Cast Time, but I do wish we had something with good Enhancing Magic Skill on it with some -cast time.

Just to say, 6 seconds is enough time to hit 2~3 normal macros easily, besides, idk how your Fast Cast/Enhancing looks but the body/head stay the same for me, which make up a bulk of the Fast Cast as well as alot of Enhancing on the body, at most the things you would need to change are Hands, Legs, Feet, Back, Neck, and Belt. Thats 6 items, 1 macro after you start casting, thats a total of +81, 404+81=485, merits for +16 to make 501, capped potency. Nothing to do with Windower, Spellcast, or anything else, 6 pieces of gear can be swapped from a Fast Cast build to your "Brave/Faith Build" and you will cap potency, and that Fast Cast you still have around your gear, would still be great for your recast. I did think things out before I typed out my ideas, its not that what I suggest is impossible, its just that the cast time seems to high, I understand that, if SE were to do it and its shorter, I'm more than happy to accept that, but I think they would make it weaker because you could swap between the 2 quickly, so I suggest this instead.

This is awhile back, but I feel the need to address this.

The problem with the 30s cast time isn't a problem in of itself, but it's imbalanced with the rest of your stats:


Brave
- Self Target.
- 3 Minute Duration.
- 30 Second Cast Time.
- 5 Minute Recast Time.
- Follows same equation as Temper, except the stats gained are Attack & Accuracy instead of Double Attack.
- Cannot stack with Faith.

Faith
- Self Target.
- 3 Minute Duration.
- 30 Second Cast Time.
- 5 Minute Recast Time.
- Follows same equation as Temper, except the stats gained are Magic Attack & Magic Accuracy instead of Double Attack.
- Cannot stack with Brave.

You've already solved your problem with RDMs switching back and forth between Bravery and Faith, purely by the Recast Time being five minutes(increased even further with Composure). This makes your reasoning for the high cast time rather redundant.

Even then, 30 seconds is absolutely absurd. Why is it absurd? Because that gives an insane amount of time to allow the mob to interrupt you, and makes you lose an insane amount of DPS. Not only that, but no spell in the game has a casting time as long as that.

The AM spells that BLMs use, for instance, is 17.45 seconds without any fast cast.
Stoneskin, without any fast cast, is 10 seconds.
Raise is 15 seconds.

Going even further, by making the Recast 6:25 via Composure (because no one in their right mind would cast a spell like that without it), you're more or less locking Spontaneity down to Bravery/Faith to bypass that casting time. Even further, the effect would only last for 9 minutes. For a casting time of 30 seconds and a recast time of 5 minutes to be justified, this ability easily needs to natively last for 10 minutes(30 minutes Composure).

The stats presented here made a useful ability into a tedious, complicated mess.

[Demon6324236]

Edit:Deleted everything related to the old post. Changed parts of the list of spells I would like to see. Underlining those changes here.
New Enhancing spells that I would like to see.

Haste II
- Free Target.
- 3 Minute Duration.
- Enhancing Magic Skill/50+15=Magic Haste gained, capping at 500 skill for 25%.

Brave
- Self Target.
- 3 Minute Duration.
- 10 Second Cast Time.
- 5 Minute Recast Time.
- Follows same equation as Temper, except the stats gained are Attack & Accuracy instead of Double Attack.
- Overwrites Faith.

Faith
- Self Target.
- 3 Minute Duration.
- 10 Second Cast Time.
- 5 Minute Recast Time.
- Follows same equation as Temper, except the stats gained are Magic Attack & Magic Accuracy instead of Double Attack.
- Overwrites Brave.

Stoneskin II
- Party Target.
- 5 Minute Duration.
- 10 Second Cast Time
- 60 Second Recast Time
- Follows the same equation as Stoneskin however caps at 600, and gains double potency from Stoneskin gear.
- Party members this spell is cast on, receive the full effects of any Stoneskin gear equip by the caster.
- Can be Accessioned with /SCH to effect all members in range.
- Can be Augmented with special gear to effect all party members in range.

Blink II
- Party Target.
- 5 Minute Duration.
- 6 Second Cast Time
- 30 Second Recast Time
- Enhancing Magic Skill/100=Shadows gained.
- Can be Accessioned with /SCH to effect all members in range.
- Can be Augmented with special gear to effect all party members in range.

[Mageoholic]

You want to fix enhancing, make it scale with enhancing magic...all spells. The mere fact that a /RDM can land enhancing buffs (particularly Refresh, and Haste) with the same effect as a RDM main is the problem, not the tools themselves. A BRD/RDM is better at buffing than a RDM/BRD. Why? Because /BRD skill directly influences the quality of the buff, however on the flip side, /RDM BRD receives full potency of certain "required" buffs.

|Same goes with Enfeebling, but that is for another thread.

Fix the mechanics to be more reflective of skill levels, and then talk about adding more tools, no point building a house on a foundation that has fallen apart. The mechanics worked @75, but we are not @75 now, we are at 99, this is the exact same issue we saw them fix with healing magic adjustments. Skills MUST play a part in determining the value of all buffs...and debuffs.

Until that issue is addressed you can add all the tools you want, but BRD/RDM is still going to be more useful than RDM/whatever.

[Demon6324236]

Well all of the spells I listed are built on that idea, where skill would make all the difference with its potency.

[saevel]

Haste / Refresh should get extra duration from additional skill at least.

[ManaKing]

Cough Enspells

[Ordoric]

whm hastega accecion haste rdm haste II based on skill lvl can we agree on that for ballance ?

[saevel]

Cough Enspells

Far to week, they need a significant improvement. To prevent SCH from becoming the enspell master the improvement should be a JT / JA native to RDM only. Something like Enspell damage bonus in the 2~3x range, also a large magic accuracy bonus on them as things at 100+ have some serious magic evasion.

[tyrantsyn]

I fear the Dev's would sooner take Enspells off the accession list before they give RDM a advantage to doing something better than SCH with there own JA. Even if it's our spell, it's there JA.

[saevel]

I fear the Dev's would sooner take Enspells off the accession list before they give RDM a advantage to doing something better than SCH with there own JA. Even if it's our spell, it's there JA.

Whomever said anything about letting them work AoE. Though I'm not against that idea. Honestly SCH as a job should of never been created, it's abilities should of been devided amongst the three current mages (White / Black / Red) with LA/DA/AW/AD going to RDM and most of the charge JA's going to WHM and BLM. But SE was stupid and ended up making RDM non-existent with a single job.

[ManaKing]

Far to week, they need a significant improvement. To prevent SCH from becoming the enspell master the improvement should be a JT / JA native to RDM only. Something like Enspell damage bonus in the 2~3x range, also a large magic accuracy bonus on them as things at 100+ have some serious magic evasion.

I want another self enhancing spell like Temper to replace current enspells. This one would be more mage oriented, but still useful for melee. Gives you a pretty decent boost to M.ACC and converts your auto attacks to non-elemental spell damage. If you are mage-ing it up, you get a buff to M.ACC(duh). If you are fighting high defense mobs, you get a buff so long as it also doesn't have high -MDT. Same rules as Enspells for the most part.


Replaces your auto attacks, so that you can stack additional affects with it.
Subject to Double Attack (because it's your auto attack).
Adds M.ACC based of enhancing magic skill level.
Damage based off your attack.
Not Subject to Defense, but is subject to resists and -MDT.
If it were subject to MAB and MDB, then it would get Bonuses to damage from MAB on cast.
Normal damage is non-elemental. If you cast Enspells on yourself, it changes your auto attack damage type to that element. Enspells still are present and function like they normally do.
Affected by affinity.
Not affected by normal crit, but possibly Magical Crit.
Subject to Double Damage procs from Relic, Empyrean, Moonshade Earring.
Lvl 99 Spell. RDM only. No /SCH.

[tyrantsyn]

Whomever said anything about letting them work AoE. Though I'm not against that idea. Honestly SCH as a job should of never been created, it's abilities should of been devided amongst the three current mages (White / Black / Red) with LA/DA/AW/AD going to RDM and most of the charge JA's going to WHM and BLM. But SE was stupid and ended up making RDM non-existent with a single job.
You did here


Far to week, they need a significant improvement. To prevent SCH from becoming the enspell master the improvement should be a JT / JA native to RDM only. Something like Enspell damage bonus in the 2~3x range, also a large magic accuracy bonus on them as things at 100+ have some serious magic evasion.

Seeing SCH doesn't have enspells native, You have to be implying it threw this method.

I don't see a problem with the SCH job as much as the Dev's dropping the ball and not advancing RDM as a job after the cap increase. That is the true issue. If the job had become more than the sum of or parts war/whm/blm, received exclusive native spells in both enhancing and enfeebling, and some damn native melee traits. WE all be a lot less sour about this crap.

[Mageoholic]

I don't see a problem with the SCH job as much as the Dev's dropping the ball and not advancing RDM as a job after the cap increase. That is the true issue. If the job had become more than the sum of or parts war/whm/blm, received exclusive native spells in both enhancing and enfeebling, and some damn native melee traits. WE all be a lot less sour about this crap.

The thing about that is we do have a unique trait that really no other job has. The ability to change roles on the fly we can act at any time in the role of a WAR, WHM, BLM, and we can switch between these at will. even compared to other hybrid styles RDM has the clear cut advantage of flexibility. BLU for example is married to a 1 minute spell set timer, SCH is married to its Arts timers, PUP to the chosen Puppet, DNC is entirely dependent on TP.

While I can agree we do lack specific melee traits, to be fair our enfeebles and enhancements make up for these lack of traits while enhancing spells are pretty obvious as to their counterparts many people forget that Dia is essentially our version of Attack Bonus, and Gravity our version of Accuracy Bonus.

The biggest problem facing RDM however in a group perspective, is not the fact that we have no clear cut role, but the fact that our secondary spell sets (enfeebles such as slow/para and buffs like haste/refresh) are marginal improvements at best. Essentially anything that can equip Mage gear these days and uses a job or sub job with access to enfeebles (specifically lets stick with /RDM) can enfeeble mobs nearly as well as RDM main. The T2 line of enfeebles cap to low, and the requirements to hit the cap on T1's are also to low. This means that mage armor jobs are as effective in enfeebling mobs as a RDM.

In terms of enhancing RDM isn't even in the running for honorable mention these days. Refresh II is really the only enhancing spell we have seen since 75 that has impact on the group and not available else where. However the issue again is that /RDM provides Refresh and Haste, so a job like BRD can use /RDM to cast haste and refresh, in addition to its marches and ballads. Giving more total Haste and Refresh than a RDM. (Not to mention BRD/RDM is capable of landing Slow/Para/Blind at max potency with MACC Gear and MND/INT sets). On the flip side RDM isn't getting the same from /BRD, we get 50% haste power because BRD is our sub, and only get one song (which isn't and issue at all).

SE could add as many traits and abilities to RDM as they wanted, but as long as the mechanics dictate that /RDM is as good or better, these traits will not really be justifiable. Essentially what it comes down to is kind of like how a spider web works. You can keep adding rings (stuff) to the web, you can even lose some of the rings and the web will remain intact. But if you cut a support line (the mechanics) the entire web collapses.

Enfeebling and Enhancing are what gave RDM its ability to be flexible. It is what gave RDM its ability to go from Healing support to melee support. It filled in the gaps in its own weaknesses while magnifying the strengths of our allies. Until RDM gets its support line working in its favor again, it will always be snubbed, because people don't need a job that operates at 75% of a dedicated jobs ability. Especially when you can achieve the same benefits from a BRD/RDM (and then some.)

SE can keep their placebo's what they need to do is stop making RDM live at the 75 cap. It is time that our enfeebling and enhancing magics played a larger role in our casting. It is time RDM was landing the best enfeebles, and best enhancements, and it is time that RDM main was clearly more useful than /RDM.

Like I said in another thread, you can call crap whatever you want, at the end of the day it is still crap. Until SE adjust the mechanics of enfeebling and enhancing to be more dependent on magic skill level in determining output you can pile all the crap you want on RDM, but it will still be crap.

[Mageoholic]

This is essentially the same idea I pitched to SE regarding healing magic changes, many clamored for new spells or abilities, when the best for of action was fixing the root cause of the issue. Which was healing magic skill not playing a large enough role in determining the value of healing. The issues didn't just affect RDM, they affected all jobs with native skill sets. This is why I pitched that they allow jobs with native skill to break past the old caps. Something that SE did implement, and it did address the issues with sub job healing out performing main job healing.

(to clarify when I say subs out performing, I merely mean that jobs like BRD/RDM were capable of performing the healing duties of say RDM/SCH, and then providing their main jobs abilities on top, not specifically being better at healing.)

Doing something similar with enfeebling and enhancing benefits all jobs with the native skill, and RDM more so as it is ranked the highest. Implementing an adjustment along a similar scale, will allow for the earlier levels where the old mechanics worked to remain unchanged, but allow for the gap to spread some at the higher levels, most specifically in making RDM/ better than /RDM.

By implementing a progressive rate of increase over level 75 you can push RDM's ability up, without breaking the mold entirely.

Ex calculation would be along the lines of.
(a scaling rate of 20 will be used in the example of Haste.)
P= (SkillValue-Level 75Cap)/ScalingRate+OldPotency
P= (500-256)/20+15
P= 27%
(obviously the numbers would be adjusted by someone at SE and other caps imposed but this is what I am refering to when I mean skill impacts potency)

This is exactly the same method used to increase healing magic, and it needs to be done for enfeebling and enhancing. The scaling and capping worked for 75 but we are not at 75 anymore.

[tyrantsyn]

You mention adjustment's several time's there to enfeebling and enhancing. At one point the Dev's did ask us how we'd like to see enhancing magic scale. What ever happen to that? Did they just give up on it or what?

[Mageoholic]

You mention adjustment's several time's there to enfeebling and enhancing. At one point the Dev's did ask us how we'd like to see enhancing magic scale. What ever happen to that? Did they just give up on it or what?

I do not know what happened to that, but I also do not think it was implied to address the base mechanics of all enhancing spells either. I think it was meant to focus on the current spells already impacted by enhancing magic skill (such as enspells, gain spells.) I could be wrong however, I stopped posting here because I stopped caring, but with this new SP I had to reactivate so I could argue that 1. The SP is terrible, and that 2. the root cause of the problem is not the abilities this job has, but how those abilities are counted when applied as a main vs a sub. In my honest opinion a subjob should not be applying Haste as strong as a main job, I don't get the benefits as RDM/BRD, like I do as BRD/RDM. Entirely because my songs /BRD are neutered at half skill level, and the value is represented in my buff potency.

[tyrantsyn]

No I remember, I actually welcome you back in another thread. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26191-New-2-hour-Abilities?p=379987#post379987) The nerd rage was real rampant back than. It seems like most of us are all on the same page these days tho, especially over the new new SP garbage.

[Mageoholic]

No I remember, I actually welcome you back in another thread. (http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/26191-New-2-hour-Abilities?p=379987#post379987) The nerd rage was real rampant back than. It seems like most of us are all on the same page these days tho, especially over the new new SP garbage.

I missed that post but thank you, and I agree many of the sperge posters have gone which is a good thing, there are a couple still here but not like it was. I also think it is impossible to not like this new SP. At least anyone who understands the finer points of the game anyhow. It is essentially Elemental Seal, on a much longer recast. It also avoids the problem with enfeebling anyway, its not an issue with landing, it is an issue with the effect of the spells on the mobs. Paralyze not preventing TP moves for example.

(and if that means para in turn can cause players to miss WS that is fine too, we have support jobs in our groups for a reason, and the idea that I can drop a potion due to paralysis, yet somehow swing my sword multiple times in a row is kind of odd if you think about it with a realistic mind set.)

There are other issues with the game and it is impossible to really agree on all of them though. Some people think abilities and traits are what we need, and they make strong points for them, and I agree with many of them. However I also believe that piling more tools onto the mechanics that are in place is ineffective. I prioritize fixing the root cause issue, and then going from there, and here is my reasoning.

RDM received Refresh 2, to make up for refresh being granted via sub job. This is well and good and makes sense...however what was over looked was the fact that certain jobs can take advantage of this, while offering little to nothing in return.

BRD/RDM can provide more total refresh than RDM, despite being granted Refresh II.
- also provided for BRD is Cure IV, Haste, convert, and enfeebles (capped T1 with moderate land rate)
- can equip mage gear to increase Cure power, and enfeeble strength.

COR/RDM can provide more total refresh than RDM, despite being granted Refresh II.
- Also provided is MAB bonus, Enfeebles, Convert, Haste, Cure IV
- COR can equip a fair amount of MACC gear, and has a decent land rate on enfeebles, which it can then stack up to be near matches of RDM mains T2 enfeebles.

That is just 2 examples of where adding a new spell did not address the issue with /RDM being more useful than RDM Main. You can really put almost any job in front of /RDM and receive effectively more value than having a RDM main there. Simply because the mechanics dictate that /RDM is in effect as good as RDM/.

Another example of this is going to be Haste II. However the impacted jobs shrink to BRD. BRD can already solo cap magic haste. In effect giving RDM Haste II is a placebo unless it stacks with our current haste spell (not going to happen). It will have uses in solo events, but in any case where you know someone with BRD/RDM it will always outperform RDM/ using its own tools again despite RDM having Haste II.

On the flip side in either of those situations, RDM gains nothing of value from using COR or BRD as a support job. Even adding additional buffs and spells is largely redundant, because both these jobs can already do that better, and /RDM just supplements that even more, and for COR it provides some offensive boon.

That is why I feel the community should get behind me and focus our efforts on altering the mechanical functions of enfeebling and enhancing magics, by making skill level affect potency of all spells in either school. So /RDM is less appealing than RDM/.

When that issue is resolved then we can compare ourselves to the jobs around us, and determine what we might need in terms of ability adjustments, new traits, and gearing options. But in order to go forward in improving the path of RDM against other main jobs, we must first eliminate the fact that /RDM is pound for pound the most useful thing RDM has to offer the game as a whole, and that is not right. A sub job should never perform as well as its main job counterpart, let alone with the proc happy endgame system better than it.

[Calatilla]

/rdm was never gimped like other sub jobs are. Anything you get from /rdm is as strong as it would be from RDM main. Convert should have been on a longer timer, not that this would have changed much. And refresh shouldnt have remained as a 3tick, it should have been 1tick much like brd songs are.

[Ordoric]

but mages ballad is 1 tick theyneeded 1 and 2 to gain 3 per tick thats why mages ballad 2 cam out so much later unless u had a G horn