Dark Knight Adjustments (that were) Scheduled for October

[Urteil]

Camate, any words on the Dark Magic fast cast, absorb adjustments?

Or an expansion to our Dark Magic arsenal (notably a Darkness version of the Holy line of spells)?

Are you ever going to fix Bale Flanchard +2 + Nether Void + Absorb Attri absorbing the right amount of buffs? (3)

Why do we have Tactical Parry II and rank E parrying, raise it please?

Resist Paralyze V, when are we getting that, as most other jobs got an additional tier of their resistance, but it was seen as fit to give us Tactical Parry II <-- 100% worthless.

Are you ever going to fix Liberator V and Absorb-Attri?

There was mention of it in October, what happened?

[Zeroe]

It will never happen. I gave up on this fight a long time ago :/. Seems they just honestly don't care about it.

[Cljader1]

How about Drain 3?? Really dark magic is such a joke, my best tools for survivability really comes for a sub "siegan and third eye." Fix drks magic, we need new powerful dark spells, please really what we got is a joke!!

[Babekeke]

Good morning!

We understand that many of you have been looking forward to the implementation of <Insert JA/Spell here> for some time now and we apologize that we have pushed it back and are making you wait longer.

The development team is would really like to implement this as soon as possible, but they are devoting a lot of their energy to the new jobs on the way as well as completely revamping the special abilities for each job.

Creating effects and adjusting abilities is pretty dense work, but they are working as hard as they can.

We apologize that we cannot give a concrete date for implementation, but we will be sure to let you know of any updates as we hear them.

Generic response

[Cljader1]

Developers please get rid of resist paralyze as a JT, instead please add "Increase Dark Magic Potency" or "Increase Absorption Potency" as a tiered JT for drks. Its not fair that jobs like blm and sch can out-drain drks with just drain 1, sch with dark magian staff dark arts and ebullience can out drain a drk using drain II and netherviod, does that seem right to you??

[Urteil]

Leave my resist paralyze alone.

What the guy above me meant to say is:

GET RID OF TACTICAL PARRY

[Armangetto]

I say INCREASE the resist rate of paralyze. (Well all of the resist jts in general). Like all my fellow drks, I too am woundering how much longer till we get our drk magic fast cast, absorb/drk magic fixes, possible new drk magics....

[Urteil]

I'd like resist paralyze V.

Many other jobs got Tier V of their resist trait.

[Cljader1]

Developers really need to increase the potency of dark magic on drk, I hate being out drained and out stunned by schs. A BW JT addition should also be considered, with a proc rate of 20%. Oh btw lets fix scarlet delirium

[StingRay104]

i would be happy with removing scarlet diarrhea from the game

[Urteil]

Tactical parry as well. Looking at it pisses me off, it would do better by not being there.

[Ophannus]

Drain is the equivalent of holy, in fact it's better. It does 300-600 damage for low ass MP. Holy does low damage but costs 100-150 MP, why would you want this? Drain and Drain II are pretty potent dark damage nukes. If you're looking for a dark Ancient Magic spell, Impact is technically that and gives stat down too! Aren't all Dark Magic spells like a 1-1.5 second cast? What good is a Fast Cast trait really? It made sense for BLM since nukes take 5-8seconds to cast but really what Dark Magic spells are there that would really benefit from a FC? Shave like 0.2 seconds off an Absorb spell?(They already cast like in 2 seconds)

Also DRK has Tactical Parry with E skill in Parrying for the same reason DRG has Critical Defense Bonus

[Cljader1]

Drain is the equivalent of holy, in fact it's better. It does 300-600 damage for low ass MP. Holy does low damage but costs 100-150 MP, why would you want this? Drain and Drain II are pretty potent dark damage nukes. If you're looking for a dark Ancient Magic spell, Impact is technically that and gives stat down too! Aren't all Dark Magic spells like a 1-1.5 second cast? What good is a Fast Cast trait really? It made sense for BLM since nukes take 5-8seconds to cast but really what Dark Magic spells are there that would really benefit from a FC? Shave like 0.2 seconds off an Absorb spell?(They already cast like in 2 seconds)

Also DRK has Tactical Parry with E skill in Parrying for the same reason DRG has Critical Defense Bonus

I think what the OP means is a dark magic line of nukes like the white magic equivalent of banish, it could be reskinned and based on dark magic tiered I-V and I agree that with should indeed have this. BTW the recast of Drain II is ridiculous this needs to be changed and I wish SE would give drks drain 3, most drks thought they would see this spell somewhere during the climb to 99.

[Cljader1]

scrap the elemental magic line for drk, and replace it with more creative dark magic like

Spells:
Bleed - gradually drains hp from the mob and gradually gives it to the drk
Absorb speed - steal a portion of the mobs attack speed and adds it to the drk
Darkness I-V - dark elemental nuke similiar to banish
Absorb Defense - absorbs mobs defense and adds it to the drk
Drain III - steal a mobs hp and add it to the drk
Drainga - steal hp from mobs in an area of effect and add it to the drk
Soul Spikes - Steals TP from enemies that hits you
Terror - paralyzes enemies for attacking based on the drk dark magic skill
Blood Weapon - add a 5% chance that the HP of a physical attack is 100% absorbed
Dark Sacrifice - drk sacrifice entire mp bar to fill up the drk or a party member's tp bar
Arcane Curse - takes a bad status ailment and transfer it to the mob
Arcane Shield - gives one shadow that completely absorbs a magical attack and then turns it into Hp, ineffective agianst aga's
Absorb Str/Vit/dex/chr/agi/mnd/int II - stronger and stackable with tier I

I can think of tons of dark magic spells that could be implemented instead of elemental magic, I wish SE would consider adding new dark magic to drk and fix our existing magic spells.

[saevel]

Well for starters the casting time on ALL absorb spells need to be 0.5s like stun, the recasts can be high but the casting time needs to be as low as possible. Then the deterioration effects need to go away, the spell should absorb an amount based purely on the dark magic skill and that about should stay static for 3min or more.

Once those two are done, then we can look at other stuff.

[Tennotsukai]

scrap the elemental magic line for drk, and replace it with more creative dark magic like

Spells:
Bleed - gradually drains hp from the mob and gradually gives it to the drk
Absorb speed - steal a portion of the mobs attack speed and adds it to the drk
Darkness I-V - dark elemental nuke similiar to banish
Absorb Defense - absorbs mobs defense and adds it to the drk
Drain III - steal a mobs hp and add it to the drk
Drainga - steal hp from mobs in an area of effect and add it to the drk
Soul Spikes - Steals TP from enemies that hits you
Terror - paralyzes enemies for attacking based on the drk dark magic skill
Blood Weapon - add a 5% chance that the HP of a physical attack is 100% absorbed
Dark Sacrifice - drk sacrifice entire mp bar to fill up the drk or a party member's tp bar
Arcane Curse - takes a bad status ailment and transfer it to the mob
Arcane Shield - gives one shadow that completely absorbs a magical attack and then turns it into Hp, ineffective agianst aga's
Absorb Str/Vit/dex/chr/agi/mnd/int II - stronger and stackable with tier I

I can think of tons of dark magic spells that could be implemented instead of elemental magic, I wish SE would consider adding new dark magic to drk and fix our existing magic spells.


okay, these are just really cool ideas.

[Silverleaf]

scrap the elemental magic line for drk, and replace it with more creative dark magic like

Spells:
Bleed - gradually drains hp from the mob and gradually gives it to the drk
Absorb speed - steal a portion of the mobs attack speed and adds it to the drk
Darkness I-V - dark elemental nuke similiar to banish
Absorb Defense - absorbs mobs defense and adds it to the drk
Drain III - steal a mobs hp and add it to the drk
Drainga - steal hp from mobs in an area of effect and add it to the drk
Soul Spikes - Steals TP from enemies that hits you
Terror - paralyzes enemies for attacking based on the drk dark magic skill
Blood Weapon - add a 5% chance that the HP of a physical attack is 100% absorbed
Dark Sacrifice - drk sacrifice entire mp bar to fill up the drk or a party member's tp bar
Arcane Curse - takes a bad status ailment and transfer it to the mob
Arcane Shield - gives one shadow that completely absorbs a magical attack and then turns it into Hp, ineffective agianst aga's
Absorb Str/Vit/dex/chr/agi/mnd/int II - stronger and stackable with tier I

I can think of tons of dark magic spells that could be implemented instead of elemental magic, I wish SE would consider adding new dark magic to drk and fix our existing magic spells.

I really like all of those ideas!!!

and the only real use I can find for elemental nukes as a drk is for laughs, they aren't really any use beyond that.

[ManaKing]

IDK...AO worked on dark magic that didn't do damage?

[StingRay104]

Today was an interesting milestone, I actually decided to put scarlet diarrhea to the test. Against Mictulcuahtli I hit sd just before drain and he took half my life. Thing is this only gave me an extra 100 points a swing, and se calls this a good trade? I like the ideas mentioned above, especially arcane curse because nothing would give me greater joy then flinging amnesia back at the bastard who hit me with it. I also like that dark magic spells start to vary based on dark magic skill, because I have worked hard to get my dark magic skill near cap and would love to have some fruits for my labors. T2 absorbs are good idea but stack with t1's isn't, cmon that would be too much and it would have to be recoded so that multi status enfeebs could hit a target, in other words an excuse not to do it exists so they'll just use it and ignore it. Also when is someone gonna bring up mp attack again? Ok I just did but that was my fav ability in FFIX, and it would make entropy much more plausible as a ws. My biggest problem with any dark element magic is that due to se's anti sleep system mobs tend to have super high resist rates to all dark magic spells, fix this while your at it please. Over all good suggestions, but remember se if anything is as intended as scarlet diarrhea's bonus to damage, then perhaps you need to rethink it.

[Calamity]

Gonna add this again: How about getting rid of that pesky magic casting/recast penalty from Seigan and Hasso.

[Cljader1]

It'll be nice if we could get a response from camate about what the future is on drk, they really should consider scrapping the elemental nukes off drk seriously.

[Urteil]

Camate? Any community rep?

Can we get some feedback on this and also the terrible state of our SP abilities?

It would be greatly appreciated.

[Cljader1]

When the last time the DEVers commented in the drk forum? Its funny how some jobs can be rebuilt from the ground up yet drk gets ignored on basic fixes and promised additions. SE you promised you would make drk the best stunner in the game yet we cant compare with sch, blm and rdm when it comes to stunning. Drk magic side is in need of help, a dark knight magic should enhance the dark's offensive capabilities with some survival spells mixed in. Soul Spikes (spikes that drain tp) would be a great tool for drks to go more offensive whereas dread spikes could be considered more defensive. I for one would love to see new magic and changes to our current magic.

If you plan to actually do nothing can you please just lets us know with a response in the thread. SE you guys should ask us what we want and the drk community can give you feedback on what we need and issues with our job, You do this with alot of other jobs.

BTW if you give the dark magic spells suggested in this thread to one of those new jobs I will be done with ffxi seriously

[Ordoric]

wow drk actualy wanting magic im loving this i think we want some lvl of "darkness celerity" <albeit alacrity might be more fitting> i think drk should get more base hp and need higher lvls of defence at least baseline similiar to war.

[Urteil]

Is this ever going to happen or is our job strong because of a level 90 weapon?
Nerf twilight and give us some more magical utility, Stun II yes please. (etc.)

Camate can we get a reply on "Dark Celerity"?

[Cljader1]

You know I haven't been on at all this year, but I got a feeling that there will be no developer response to drk issues until after the expansion. Its unfortunate too, because most drks just want to open the lines of communication between the player base and the developers, but yet we are not even allowed to have that.

[Ophannus]

Would be cool if they differentiated Scythe from Greatsword for DRKs. Used to be the allure of either or were their Skillchain properties but now nobody cares as much. They should make GS focus more on high damage weapon skills and damage aspect of DRK in general and have Scythes grant bonuses to Drains/Absorbs/Endark/Enfeebling and the more debuffy/magic side of DRK. Maybe they can implement traits that enhance damage with GS and some kind of Dark Arts-like trait with bonuses to dark magic casting speed,drain/aspir/absorb and endark potency. That way DRK could choose which weapon for which situation. This would kind of create a reason for using Scythe over GS or vice versa since now GS and Scythe are both powerful 2h weapons(just scythe lacks a good damage ws compared to resolution).

Right now this is kind of how it is anyway with GS having just plain damage and scythe WS having special bonuses or effects(Guillotine, Entropy) but it should be more pronounced. No point in having DRK specialize in two weapon classes with identical damage/ws, there should be some kind of tactical advantage to each rather than just preference or aesthetics.

[Urteil]

Mother fucking bump.

[Tennotsukai]

adjustments! yes, please...

[Concerned4FFxi]

I dont know when the last post here was but, the new release of info i believe stated drk was too powerful (even though it barely beats out sam and war), yet the sacrifices to the job to get that barely better dd are astonishing. Drk sacrifice a ton just to get a bread crumbs worth of an edge...

My point being Drk is being left out just like Rdm.

[Byrth]

Against difficult enemies, Tactical Parry doesn't matter for any job because they all use AoE attacks that you can't Parry these days. Against easier enemies, Tactical Parry doesn't really matter for any 2H job because it doesn't save you a swing. It may slightly increase your WS damage, though. Against high level enemies that don't multi-attack, even 1H jobs have a floored proc rate on Parrying. This means that DRK with their E skill is no different from NIN or COR in the proc rate during the only times that really matter, so crappy skill ranking isn't really a good reason to not want the trait.

Adding Fast Cast and/or reducing casting times for dark magic is somewhat misguided, though it would certainly help a little. Every time you cast a magic spell, there's a minimum of a 3 seconds delay in your swinging. At high Haste (which is pretty much the only way you use DRK), that's two attack rounds, half a WS, etc. They need to reduce magic casting delay before it will really be viable to cast spells while you're DDing. That's just how it is.

[Urteil]

Already do fine DDing, don't want to play WAR with MP.


Magic please, DD is fine, reduce it even, Stun II, Stunga, Curse, Absorbs that matter, Dark Nukes for OA, {Yes please.}

[Tennotsukai]

Already do fine DDing, don't want to play WAR with MP.


Magic please, DD is fine, reduce it even, Stun II, Stunga, Curse, Absorbs that matter, Dark Nukes for OA, {Yes please.}

yes, maybe another version of dread spikesfor AoEs?

[Glamdring]

scrap the elemental magic line for drk, and replace it with more creative dark magic like

Spells:
Bleed - gradually drains hp from the mob and gradually gives it to the drk
Absorb speed - steal a portion of the mobs attack speed and adds it to the drk
Darkness I-V - dark elemental nuke similiar to banish
Absorb Defense - absorbs mobs defense and adds it to the drk
Drain III - steal a mobs hp and add it to the drk
Drainga - steal hp from mobs in an area of effect and add it to the drk
Soul Spikes - Steals TP from enemies that hits you
Terror - paralyzes enemies for attacking based on the drk dark magic skill
Blood Weapon - add a 5% chance that the HP of a physical attack is 100% absorbed
Dark Sacrifice - drk sacrifice entire mp bar to fill up the drk or a party member's tp bar
Arcane Curse - takes a bad status ailment and transfer it to the mob
Arcane Shield - gives one shadow that completely absorbs a magical attack and then turns it into Hp, ineffective agianst aga's
Absorb Str/Vit/dex/chr/agi/mnd/int II - stronger and stackable with tier I

I can think of tons of dark magic spells that could be implemented instead of elemental magic, I wish SE would consider adding new dark magic to drk and fix our existing magic spells.

I do like your ideas. However, about elemental magic, I read VERY early in the game the primary reason for those was so Drk could MB skillchains. Not saying it worked well (frankly I don't think I've ever seen it happen), and SCs are largely a thing of the past (as is the tank, healer, buffer/enfeeb, 3 DD party that used it), but iirc that was the reasoning for it. Still, Dark magic nukes are fitting and dark is the logical job to get most of them, at LEAST on a comparable tier with pld for light nukes if not better. I also think drk should have Dispel-the drk magic version as it's in keeping, but absorb Attri-if it actually worked-is actually better. I'd also like Absorb-TP to have a bit more utility, because considering the rate mobs gain and spam TP you're lucky if there is any TP there to absorb when the cast finishes.

[Urteil]

I'd take Terror, should be a JA that scales in regards to the target's level vs yours.

Wouldn't mind if NM's are flat out immune either.


Also, curse.

[Urteil]

I dont know when the last post here was but, the new release of info i believe stated drk was too powerful (even though it barely beats out sam and war), yet the sacrifices to the job to get that barely better dd are astonishing. Drk sacrifice a ton just to get a bread crumbs worth of an edge...

My point being Drk is being left out just like Rdm.

One the way to 99. RDM got Saboteur, Spont. Addle more Fast Cast and serves a function in the alliances I use for the events my shell does, and level V of its resistance trait.

On the way to 99 DRK got two levels of tactical Parry and Scarlet Delirium, with a kind nod to Nether Void and Endark.



RDM is fine, it is a job that serves many functions adequately. Some far better than it should for having access to all that it does.

[Byrth]

At the 75 uncapping, DRK also got Stalwart Soul and Occult Acumen traits added. On the way to 99 they also gained Attack Bonus V/VI.

DRK is one of the most desired DDs in the game right now. The fact that it doesn't play as a caster/DD hybrid (which is how you interpret SE wants the job to be played) is SE's fault, but mostly not for the reasons that you've named. Even if they reduced Absorb spells to the casting time of Stun, it would still be a substantial DPS drop to cast them in high Haste situations, just as it's a substantial DPS drop to use Steps on DNC in high Haste situations, Boost on MNK, etc. This is due to fixed delays that SE has built into the game. What you need to do is ask SE to change the fixed delays.

Also, for those of you coming up with 20 awesome alternative spells they could add to make DRK casting more relevant, hooray for you. Realistically, though, SE isn't going to add that many unique spells. Count the number of unique spells that DRK has. You're essentially asking them to double it on a whim. What you should do is ask for the potency of Absorb spells to scale with Dark magic, Dread Spikes to affect AoE attacks/magic after certain Dark Magic thresholds, etc. This is actually less work than implementing an entirely new spell and has the same effect. Feel free to continue to think up names for changes that you want to see made to level 99 DRK, but proposing them in an "adjustment" instead of "novel idea" format is more likely to resonate with your target audience (overworked Devs).

[Demon6324236]

One the way to 99. RDM got Saboteur, Spont. Addle more Fast Cast and serves a function in the alliances I use for the events my shell does, and level V of its resistance trait.

On the way to 99 DRK got two levels of tactical Parry and Scarlet Delirium, with a kind nod to Nether Void and Endark.



RDM is fine, it is a job that serves many functions adequately. Some far better than it should for having access to all that it does.I just want to say you make it sound like RDM got much more than it really did...

Sabo is nice, there is no doubt about that, however with enfeebling in its current stat it doesn't really do a ton to make RDM amazing. Spont is really only good for spells with long recasts, the main thing that comes to mind is raise and stun, other than raise, there are not many spells with long recasts you would need to cast 2 times back to back. Addle is something WHM has as well, its a bit unfair to really count that when its not unique, especially when few people would take a RDM for something a WHM can do almost as well. Fast Cast is good, but its a trait, and you left out the traits that DRK gets, so also seems a bit unfair to count it too.

I agree DRK's magic side is ignored and needs adjusting so it can be used effectively, but the same could be said for basically anything on the entire black magic side. Nuking has become second rate next to melee damage in a way that you do not bring BLMs to basically anything anymore for actual damage. DRK has a few spells to itself on the black magic side but they suffer from the fact its a melee job getting hit with that delay effect, which removes the point in using it in high haste situations as Byrth said.

One thing that might change that is a combo between the proposed Elemental Magic changes and OA, which if you can stack enough STP with the OA gear(at least the +2 feet, not sure how effective the belt is), you should be able to get roughly 35~40TP from a Thunder IV, which with proper gearing should cast in about 3 seconds or less. So in low haste situations it would be good to use them possibly. I have never looked into DRK gear for such a thing, but if it works then that would be beneficial for DRK's magic side.

[Economizer]

One thing that might change that is a combo between the proposed Elemental Magic changes and OA, which if you can stack enough STP with the OA gear(at least the +2 feet, not sure how effective the belt is), you should be able to get roughly 35~40TP from a Thunder IV, which with proper gearing should cast in about 3 seconds or less. So in low haste situations it would be good to use them possibly. I have never looked into DRK gear for such a thing, but if it works then that would be beneficial for DRK's magic side.

Doing some research and math (all math below was done with a delay calculator using the value 866 to simulate a well geared Dark Knight, so real values may slightly differ), I believe you can get up to 46TP from a Thunder III (DRK doesn't get Thunder IV) under ideal conditions (DRK + SAM + COR + XXX/SCH), or if you are really pushing it you could /SCH yourself and Light Arts and even get 55 TP). Of course, this setup, while completely stupid, will only get better after the spell changes take course, which will leave Thunder III costing 129 instead of 128, and more significantly, roughly half the cast time. Throw in a Blizzard III with Thunder III under that setup and you can have two terrible nukes feed a weapon skill every six or more seconds without any haste (getting 36.3 TP / 100 MP makes this possible).

More likely though you'll be under less favorable conditions, being able to only get a maximum of 27.3 TP, or perhaps only in the same party as a COR (34.1 TP), or maybe a COR and a SAM but no /SCH around (36.0 TP). More likely then all this is that you'll have a good chunk of the gear if you're gearing for all this but be short some of the high value TP pieces and only get 20~25TP per 100 MP (or perhaps missing a large portion of the gear but have a COR around for that Samurai Roll).

If you can roll with just 25TP/100MP, a Thunder III, Blizzard III, Fire III, and Fire II should put you over enough to WS for just 405 MP.

Even if you can only get 20TP/100MP (an easy feat), a Thunder III will get you a bit over 25TP for a three second cast, easily putting you a forth of the way to a weapon skill. This is more into the realm of what Occult Acumen can do for players too. With that 27.3TP/100MP perfect gear set you'll find a Stun speed Thunder I spell getting you about 10.1 TP of course, but with the no excuses 20TP/100MP set you can still get a respectable 7.4 TP, and an Aero II casting at a slower 1.5 seconds can still net you 10.2 TP with your 20TP/100MP set.

I think Dark Knights will find that having an Occult Acumen set is actually fairly important even if it might be for the short time without Last Resort up, or some other niche situation. The real question will be how far Dark Knights are willing to go for certain situational pieces (inventory space being the primary enemy of having a set naturally).

This is all a long way from dropping an Impact from a Twilight Cloak for opening a fight with 100 TP since your MP is useless.

For whatever reason I totally neglected to calculate /SAM into this whole "what-if" so far (probably Hasso's anticasting effects) but for an interesting number, with the previous best setup, throwing on /SAM, and going into Campaign Battle you could get a grand total of 41.6TP/100MP, although this won't perform much better then previously mentioned sets since you'll still have to toss out a Blizzard III and Thunder III to get a weapon skill. Since Store TP has diminishing returns with high values this is to be expected however.

[Demon6324236]

I did mean Thunder III, had a derp moment, sorry, but thank you for running some of the numbers. I was simply trying to point out that it could potentially have a good use, I just personally have never looked into DRK's Fast Cast gear for speeding it up, and its possible gear for the cast to get the most TP from it. But it looks as though after the elemental magic changes DRK may get more magic use afterall.

[ManaKing]

One the way to 99. RDM got Saboteur, Spont. Addle more Fast Cast and serves a function in the alliances I use for the events my shell does, and level V of its resistance trait.

On the way to 99 DRK got two levels of tactical Parry and Scarlet Delirium, with a kind nod to Nether Void and Endark.



RDM is fine, it is a job that serves many functions adequately. Some far better than it should for having access to all that it does.

Lol they made LR 3 minute duration and made DRK a top tier DD. You're right, DRK got nothing. As other people have pointed out, AO is going to be more useful in the future because they are changing Elemental magic for everyone. Good thing DRK has max levels of that trait and RDM has exactly 0 and can wear a belt or /DRK if they want to touch it.

If you were going to complain about how much RDM got you could at least site it's actual buffs. Temper, Healing Magic Adjustments, and Elemental Magic adjustments that are incoming. Only one of them is RDM specific. RDM is a good job, but don't try to pretend it got more than DRK did. Anyone that plays DRK now (bandwagon most likely) is because DRK got all sorts of goodies that make it very viable as a replacement for the role that WAR and SAM used to dominate.

That being said, I fully support Dark based nukes and FC for those Dark Based nukes. I say FC for dark based nukes because DRK recasts are terrible. Absorb spells are terrible utility and SHOULD be adjusted. You are getting magic buffs with the upcoming change to elemental magic, but it's not the custom tailored adjustment you were hoping for, which scares you because SEs rate of job adjustment is very slow. DRK and RDM are in similar boats in this regard because they have good things on their job; but other things, specifically job defining things that were 75 Era, are very broken and/or useless.

[Demon6324236]

Slightly different story between RDM & DRK is that RDM was never told about any updates, where as DRK had this announced more than 6 months ago with no sign of progress from SE's side. I can understand the want for an update, because this entire adjustment seems like it has the dreaded Cait Sith Syndrome.

[Economizer]

RDM has exactly 0 and can wear a belt or /DRK if they want to touch it.

RDM/DRK would have been a big deal if SE was willing to budge on Last Resort working for 1h jobs.

Still, we can math this out (120 Delay on a TP calculator does 4.5TP, which is the value RDM/DRK with the belt can get).

With a Sword/Dagger/Club and a perfect TP set you can get 5.9TP/100MP solo, 6.0TP/100MP with a SAM in your party, 8.2TP/100MP with a SAM and a COR, 8.3TP/100MP with a SCH or other source of ice weather, and a grand total of 8.5TP/100MP if you jump in Campaign on top of all this. More likely you'd be getting something like 5.4 in a mixed nuking set, or 7.2 with a COR backing you up while you wear a mixed nuking set.

If you lock your weapon to the 17 Store TP Thibron (something I didn't consider for DRK with the 12 Store TP Basanizo or the Great Sword variant, although the problems that arise by using it are higher for DRK), you could push to a more extreme 6.7~9.3TP/100MP depending on your buffs and if you're in Campaign Battle or not, or even top 6.1 in a mixed nuking set and even get around 7.9 with a COR in the same.

Essentially we'll find that Occult Acumen is a total crapshoot for RDM, even if you equipped a Twilight Cloak you'd only be getting at most somewhere around 50TP for dropping a MP hungry nuke/enfeeble. Under current conditions a Red Mage will be sacrificing some damage on a nuke with a balanced set just to get a 9.2TP, and with a totally crappy nuking set and perfect conditions at most 15.9TP. Even when they adjust nukes and a Thunder IV only takes six seconds (less due to Red Mage's Fast Cast), you'll find it only kicks back 11.5 TP when doing a balance of damage.

Occult Acumen would be a total game changer for Red Mage if it got some chunks of the trait naturally though. Give it up to Occult Acumen IV (a tier below Dark Knight) and you'd be able to get over 20 TP from a Thunder IV without bothering on Store TP or even a belt, but with a focus on TP you'd be able to get something like 38 TP, or essentially be able to dump out a Fire IV, Blizzard IV, Thunder IV to get a weapon skill with Samurai Roll being able to allow the Red Mage gear nukes better while still achieving three or four nukes to a weapon skill.

Even just having the same tier as a Scholar does now would be a significant change though, allowing a Red Mage to either dump nukes for weapon skills until they run out of MP (which would be fairly fast) or at least toss in a nuke here or there in low haste situations to make weapon skills happen that much faster.


I can understand the want for an update, because this entire adjustment seems like it has the dreaded Cait Sith Syndrome.

As a final note, no changes will be going through until SoA comes out, and possibly later. I'd imagine that the spell changes could easily go through as SoA comes out though, they were detailed quite nicely with exact numbers to much applause.

[Demon6324236]

No no no, the adjustment I was talking about is the DRK one, so far as I know little detail was given on that. I was not meaning the Elemental Magic adjustment, if it was done with SoA though that would be fantastic. They did originally say something about DRK Fast Cast though, just no word in a long time, thats why I said it has Cait Sith Syndrome.

[ManaKing]

Native AO on RDM would be a big deal because you could go RDM/DNC and Death Blossom > Reverse Flourish > Spontaneity > Tier IV nuke > Requiescat > Tier IV Nuke. You might not even need Spontaneity after the update. You could also go DB > KOTR for Light if you so desired.

And yes RDM/DRK would have been a big deal if they didn't keep LR's Haste for 2H ONRY. MNK/DRK, DNC/DRK, and NIN/DRK would have been particularly potent as well. RDM wouldn't get the pure killing power that the other jobs get because of it's skill caps and gear selections, but it also would have picked up a nice chunk of spells and utility. RDM/DRK is still my favorite job combination in the game, but you'll see me RDM/DNC in a group, just because the utility and damage are better.

It shouldn't surprise people at this point that SE is slow to come out with improvements for jobs that it never had a plan for in the first place. The best we can hope for is that AFTER they get done with the broad strokes, HOPEFULLY they will do the fine tuning that most jobs are hurting for. If they think EVERY job they currently have doesn't need a least a little adjustment, then they are just misguided.

Merits are also still a travesty and should be looked at.

[Ramaza]

Native AO on RDM would be a big deal because you could go RDM/DNC and Death Blossom > Reverse Flourish > Spontaneity > Tier IV nuke > Requiescat > Tier IV Nuke. You might not even need Spontaneity after the update. You could also go DB > KOTR for Light if you so desired.

And yes RDM/DRK would have been a big deal if they didn't keep LR's Haste for 2H ONRY. MNK/DRK, DNC/DRK, and NIN/DRK would have been particularly potent as well. RDM wouldn't get the pure killing power that the other jobs get because of it's skill caps and gear selections, but it also would have picked up a nice chunk of spells and utility. RDM/DRK is still my favorite job combination in the game, but you'll see me RDM/DNC in a group, just because the utility and damage are better.

It shouldn't surprise people at this point that SE is slow to come out with improvements for jobs that it never had a plan for in the first place. The best we can hope for is that AFTER they get done with the broad strokes, HOPEFULLY they will do the fine tuning that most jobs are hurting for. If they think EVERY job they currently have doesn't need a least a little adjustment, then they are just misguided.

Merits are also still a travesty and should be looked at.

2nd the motion about RDM merits. Make them scrolls not merits but then again, with the way RDM is losing spells to other jobs update by update, they may give those over to SCH, WHM, and BLM as well :/