[dev1139] Embrava and Prefect Defense - Just say 'NO'

[Dreamin]

I wanted to try to keep this as simple as possible.

If you want to let the dev know that you do not like these changes, please hit LIKE on this OP. Let's keep this simple and leave all opinion and discussion in other threads (there are plenty on this topic already). This thread is not meant to be a place to voice alternatives, etc. Doing so will just become another end-less display of debate and back and forth and we will lose the main focus, which is that 'This is NOT what we want'.

If you like the changes, please refrain from commenting and just not hit the LIKE button and move on. If you want to debate the changes, please do so in another thread.

Let us show SE that we CAN show them a clear and concise message which is: "NO, the playerbase do not like this at all".

[Ezikiel]

i vote no im not mad at the duration but changing Regain to Refresh is a pointless F*** up on this, as i posted before with regain mages acan still return magic with certain WS's which would be far better than refresh tick at least there'd be options NO NO NO NO worse idea EVER!

[Ezikiel]

Can i give a 2nd NO to drive home my point?

[Trisscar]

People didn't like it that content was designed around the need for Embrava and Perfect Defense. I can't say that I blame them, cause neither did I.

So what does Square do? They nerf those abilities.

Square, grand masters of setting the house on fire to save it.

[Babekeke]

Embrava now has just 2 uses.

1. Manaburn
2. SCH solo.

[Kaup]

SE should just compromise and bring the regain back at lower values.

[Iakothm]

There is a new spell called "Prefect Defense"? sorry I couldn't resist.

[Dragonlord]

The embrava nerf was pretty hefty indeed. However, the PD nerf is too weak. They'll still have to consider PD specifically when planning future NMs. Imo it should be nerfed in potency as well. Although, SE then needs to actually fix smn, and not just promise an avatar every 3 years.

[Demon6324236]

Embrava now has just 2 uses.

1. Manaburn
2. SCH solo.3. Short zerg fights.

[Ezikiel]

with the amoutn of refresh gear floating about changing regain to fresh is still pissing me off lol i think i just said no again

[Mefuki]

Should we also be considering that Embrava still has +25% Haste and +72/tic Regen? Yes, Refresh is pretty pointless on this spell (particularly the relatively meager amount) but it still seems like a nice buff to me.

Also, in terms of duration, 12.5 minutes out of 2 hours means that it's active 10.41% of the time and 3.45 minutes out 30 minutes is means it's active 11.5% of the time.

I mean, this is what we were expecting. We needed them to do something about the complete reliance on it and now it's a decent buff but won't be relied on as much. That's what we wanted, right? I expected the far bigger complaint to concern the improper scaling of events that called for these abilities.

I guess I just don't understand why the complaining about the nerfing of abilities that we knew would be nerfed is so much louder and pervasive then complains about the broken events themselves.

[Arcon]

Also, in terms of duration, 12.5 minutes out of 2 hours means that it's active 10.41% of the time and 3.45 minutes out 30 minutes is means it's active 11.5% of the time.

That means very little considering most events last about 30 minutes, and not two hours. 2x 12.5 minutes is 25min/30min, meaning it's up for 83% of the time, while 2x 3.75 minutes make up only 25% of the time. Considering you can sometimes hold buffs, and the timer stops when going up floors in Nyzul or examining chests, lamps, etc. it means a difference between fulltiming it and barely having it on for a few fights within the entire event.


I guess I just don't understand why the complaining about the nerfing of abilities that we knew would be nerfed is so much louder and pervasive then complains about the broken events themselves.

There was a lot of complaining in that regard as well. Everyone hoped they'd adjust content to reflect those changes, but they didn't. And if they don't adjust the content (no, the HP-10% doesn't count), it's understandable to complain that they take away the means to complete it.

[Demon6324236]

The broken events are of concern as well, however we have attempted to tell them of the problems since day 1, and have had no effect, so to me at least it seems kinda pointless. If SE cant see how mobs hitting players for 1/3rd or more of their HP is a problem, I have little I can do to show them how.

Now, to address your statement about Embrava's effects/duration. The problem isn't that they nerfed it, its that they nerfed it so much its effect has been somewhat lost. Before it was a long lasting super buff that beat everything else basically. Nerfing Haste & removing Regain was 1 side to nerfing it, reducing its duration by so much was another way to nerf it, but they chose secret option 3 which was to do both at the same time. Now, you are right that the effects for duration mean in compare to the recast we have a better duration, however you are factoring in merits, and seeing how we have no idea how those will work as of yet, I think its unfair to assume their effects based off merits, and rather we should base them off of their original 1 hour recasts, which would place this as lackluster by far.

Imo, they should have chosen 1 of the 2 paths for nerfing it, either reduce Haste/Remove regain & put Refresh, or they should have nerfed its duration, doing both was overkill.

[Xantavia]

I don't get the complaints of PD. Compare it to Invincible. Even with the new reduction, which would you rather have?

And no smartasses saying nobody would rather have smn or pld.

[Damane]

The broken events are of concern as well, however we have attempted to tell them of the problems since day 1, and have had no effect, so to me at least it seems kinda pointless. If SE cant see how mobs hitting players for 1/3rd or more of their HP is a problem, I have little I can do to show them how.

if only it was 1/3 of ther HP, that would be the case if you would be hit on your PDT gear in Legion ._., otherwise you are maybe looking at 1/2 of your HP going down ._.

[Nala]

Overnerfed duration, should have lowered regain potency vice changing it to refresh, you have castrated this spell.

[Arcon]

I don't get the complaints of PD. Compare it to Invincible. Even with the new reduction, which would you rather have?

And no smartasses saying nobody would rather have smn or pld.

PD is still very great on its own right. The problem is, that it doesn't scale with the events that are currently out. I would have no issue whatsoever with these nerfs if they also nerfed the content accordingly. But 10% less HP in Legion and Odin v2 is not gonna cut it. The decrease in buffs is significantly higher than the decrease in difficulty, for content that was already too hard for a majority of the playerbase.

[Aldersyde]

The replacement of Regain with Refresh is just plain silly. It's not "adjusting" embrava, it's curbstomping it.

[JohnGotti]

PD is still very great on its own right. The problem is, that it doesn't scale with the events that are currently out. I would have no issue whatsoever with these nerfs if they also nerfed the content accordingly. But 10% less HP in Legion and Odin v2 is not gonna cut it. The decrease in buffs is significantly higher than the decrease in difficulty, for content that was already too hard for a majority of the playerbase.

You say that like it is a bad thing, the gimps should know there place and not think all events are going to be like abyssea and hand gear out to them left and right, let them man up more importantly gear up and earn it.

[Llana_Virren]

You say that like it is a bad thing, the gimps should know there place and not think all events are going to be like abyssea and hand gear out to them left and right, let them man up more importantly gear up and earn it.

Failtroll is fail. Using PD isn't for gimps... its for groups that actually want to WIN in Legion or ADL.

[JohnGotti]

Failtroll is fail. Using PD isn't for gimps... its for groups that actually want to WIN in Legion or ADL.

Can win adl without it, and for certain you can win mul without it my linkshell does it.

More importantly however you can still use pd even after the nerf.

[Secondplanet]

my problem is with the nerf to PD is that they expect us to get 600 smn magic to cap its use when thats not possible to obtain at out current status. Its not fair that our 2hr that we are only wanted for is dependent on a stat we can't get while all other 2hrs are obtainable at this point for their respective jobs to maximize their use.

[Monchat]

I wanted to try to keep this as simple as possible.

If you want to let the dev know that you do not like these changes, please hit LIKE on this OP. Let's keep this simple and leave all opinion and discussion in other threads (there are plenty on this topic already). This thread is not meant to be a place to voice alternatives, etc. Doing so will just become another end-less display of debate and back and forth and we will lose the main focus, which is that 'This is NOT what we want'.

If you like the changes, please refrain from commenting and just not hit the LIKE button and move on. If you want to debate the changes, please do so in another thread.

Let us show SE that we CAN show them a clear and concise message which is: "NO, the playerbase do not like this at all".

yes to embrava/PD nerf but only if content is reworked from the ground up (ADL/Nyzul/Legion).

[Sargent]

my problem is with the nerf to PD is that they expect us to get 600 smn magic to cap its use when thats not possible to obtain at out current status.
They're not expecting us to reach 600 skill, they're just announcing that there is a cap. It's also a way to kill off Perfect Defence mules/half assed Summoners.

[Taint2]

Failtroll is fail. Using PD isn't for gimps... its for groups that actually want to WIN in Legion or ADL.



You do know a lot of shells farm Mul without PD, the PDless strats have turned out to be some of the better ones.

And ADL can be done without PD, PD takes some of the luck factor away, but is in no way needed to win.

[Monchat]

What's the difference between using PD and stun locking a mob? none so stop justifying legion.

[Arcon]

What's the difference between using PD and stun locking a mob? none so stop justifying legion.

PD requires one SMN to make melee invincible for a fight, Squall requires several SMN with high skill and magic accuracy and even then it can be resisted on certain mobs.

[Secondplanet]

They're not expecting us to reach 600 skill, they're just announcing that there is a cap. It's also a way to kill off Perfect Defence mules/half assed Summoners.

that wasn't what my post was all about, you only quoted the first portion, i was noting the fact the all other jobs can get full effect out of their 2hr while summoner now can't.

[Llana_Virren]

What's the difference between using PD and stun locking a mob? none so stop justifying legion.

But they found a strategy that doesn't use PD! That makes them better than those who use PD! C'mon know, it wouldn't be FFXI without the semi-elites trying to act like they're so much better than everyone else just for finding a new quick-n-easy that isn't (yet) nerfed.

[Demon6324236]

if only it was 1/3 of ther HP, that would be the case if you would be hit on your PDT gear in Legion ._., otherwise you are maybe looking at 1/2 of your HP going down ._.I sadly haven't had a chance to do Legion really, just going from what I heard, but in either case its terrible we have to basically prevent the enemy from doing anything just to have a shot at killing them... So far as I understand its a fight to see who can disable the others ability to fight 1st, you, or the mob.

[Luvbunny]

It's pretty much set in stone, our voices and opinions do not matter. Look at the response, pretty much they care ZERO about what we think.

[Plasticleg]

What's the difference between using PD and stun locking a mob? none so stop justifying legion.

One requires magic accurracy/capped skill.
The other requires Taru SMN mule.
You sound mad.

[Llana_Virren]

One requires magic accurracy/capped skill.
The other requires Taru SMN mule.
You sound mad.

Troll harder. The same principled strategy was the point of the statement. I'd give you points for ignoring the obvious, but you had to go all "literal" on a rhetorical question, which is instant fail.

[ManaKing]

I said yes, i think they are going in the right direction. Quick, strap me to a rock and throw me into a river to see if I'm a witch.

[Dragonlord]

I said yes, i think they are going in the right direction. Quick, strap me to a rock and throw me into a river to see if I'm a witch.

We must first see if you weigh more than a duck... and back on topic...

So obviously the next step towards making real strategy is prevent NMs from being stun locked by shock squal. This could easily be done by limiting stuns on certain NMs to only last a cap of 1 minute. Now, i say this noting that any NM that gets this adjustment would need their TP moves fully reworked. But this is a step ahead of nerfing PD's effect, rather than its duration.

The fact is, we're too strong. The enmity system is designed around RotZ/CoP level damage output. We now do tenfold or more damage than that. In order to see some sort of strategy emergence, there must be a reason to need a tank, and the ability for them to hold hate reasonably. The longer we sit with these overpowered abilities, the harder it will be for the devs to go back and rework all of the NMs that need it. Do it now and get it over with, we'll move on, like every nerf in the past.

[Babekeke]

3. Short zerg fights.

BRD still offers more than Embrava for short zerg fights.


So far as I understand its a fight to see who can disable the others ability to fight 1st, you, or the mob.

This isn't the first time SE has done this though... anyone remember when RDMs only subbed DRK for hard content? I do, but I can't for the life of me remember why they did that.... oh wait

[Plasticleg]

Troll harder. The same principled strategy was the point of the statement. I'd give you points for ignoring the obvious, but you had to go all "literal" on a rhetorical question, which is instant fail.

So what did you add, besides another bump for your shitty "arise"?

Nothing.

[Llana_Virren]

So what did you add, besides another bump for your shitty "arise"?

Nothing.

That's been in my signature for a few weeks now, Troll. Not everyone logs a mule account in with no signature just to parrot arguments.

Damn, I just fed the troll :/

[Demon6324236]

Arise isn't something I would see as brag worthy even so I cant see it as the reason why Llana posts. Afterglow on the other hand... Either way...

[Llana_Virren]

Arise isn't something I would see as brag worthy even so I cant see it as the reason why Llana posts. Afterglow on the other hand... Either way...

Yeah I don't see how I'm "bragging" about Arise either, considering it was my LS that got it for me. But oh well, if you can't beat the logic, attack the person.

[Luvbunny]

What's the difference between using PD and stun locking a mob? none so stop justifying legion.

So basically make a party of 4 summoner, sch, and rdm to focus on stun locking the mob while the other two parties focus on DD + buffers? Probably want to keep this strategy out of the forum, lest they are doing another adjustment to further nerf summoners, scholar and red mage.

[Luvbunny]

BRD still offers more than Embrava for short zerg fights. This isn't the first time SE has done this though... anyone remember when RDMs only subbed DRK for hard content? I do, but I can't for the life of me remember why they did that.... oh wait

LOL, yeah, but we should not posting useful information on how to defeat content in the most feasible ways. Whenever said strategy is becoming increasingly popular, you can bet that "an adjustment" is coming your way to make sure that content is not beatable and no one can go pass through the invisible walls.

[Llana_Virren]

So basically make a party of 4 summoner, sch, and rdm to focus on stun locking the mob while the other two parties focus on DD + buffers? Probably want to keep this strategy out of the forum, lest they are doing another adjustment to further nerf summoners, scholar and red mage.

The only way left to nerf RDM would be to delete the job altogether.

[Luvbunny]

The only way left to nerf RDM would be to delete the job altogether.

Considering pretty much everything that RDM can do, can be done better with other jobs...you are probably right. Though I still think that SE can do good with RDM job and make it shine again. They did great revamping SCH, WHM, DRG, BST and PUP and literally resurrect them from the dead.

[ManaKing]

Considering pretty much everything that RDM can do, can be done better with other jobs...you are probably right. Though I still think that SE can do good with RDM job and make it shine again. They did great revamping SCH, WHM, DRG, BST and PUP and literally resurrect them from the dead.

A couple of smaller buffs and fair treatment in the future is all RDM would need to be viable. It's biggest downfall is a bad reputation that keeps it from being included in content that it can be useful in. The job isn't that bad, it's just not broken good or handed everything.

[Demon6324236]

Brave(+20%Attack/Acc)/Faith(+20%MAB/MAcc) & I think RDM is fine for the most part.

[Afania]

with the amoutn of refresh gear floating about changing regain to fresh is still pissing me off lol i think i just said no again

When your haste is capped regain isn't that much of a big deal, it's the new duration that really killed it. You won't be able to effectively use it in legion/Nyzul etc when you need to adjust BRD buff when it wears.

[Luvbunny]

A couple of smaller buffs and fair treatment in the future is all RDM would need to be viable. It's biggest downfall is a bad reputation that keeps it from being included in content that it can be useful in. The job isn't that bad, it's just not broken good or handed everything.

I think RDM could use a lot more spells: TP reduction, plague, magic defense bonus, magic damage absorb, reducing mob physical damage resistance, reducing mob magic damage resistance, magic attack bonus spells, magic accuracy spells. You should look at blue mage and how spoiled that job is, pretty much have all the enfeebling spells that can be shared with RDM. All those spells would make RDM shine once again, and obviously more youtube videos of people actually playing the job correctly, having fun, and stretching the limit of what you can do as RDM.

[Calatilla]

Brave(+20%Attack/Acc)/Faith(+20%MAB/MAcc) & I think RDM is fine for the most part.
Only problem with those spells is SE would more than likely give them to SCH before RDM ever got a look in, and if they somehow DID decide RDM should have them, they`d be self cast only.

SE have never considered RDM to be a buffing job, if they did all our spells wouldn't be self cast only or single target.

[Demon6324236]

I want them selfcast, so perfectly fine with me, make them the exact same as Temper except with 1 being Attack/Acc & 1 being MagicAttack/MagicAcc & Ill be happy.

[Return1]

The butthurt is strong in this thread.

The adjustment for PD was really light.

As for Embrava, of course people will whine about it, but the Duration is kinda fitting for a 2 hour. Sucks about the Regain but it's only a really big deal for 1 handed DDs. You know, the ones no one uses. That or failure 2handers that don't have an x-hit build.

[Iakothm]

The butthurt is strong in this thread.

The adjustment for PD was really light.

As for Embrava, of course people will whine about it, but the Duration is kinda fitting for a 2 hour. Sucks about the Regain but it's only a really big deal for 1 handed DDs. You know, the ones no one uses. That or failure 2handers that don't have an x-hit build.

lol fail troll is a fail.

[Return1]

It's not trolling.

The game would be better if Embrava and Perfect Defense were never implemented. Even with the nerfs they're better than most 2hrs in the damn game.

The butthurt in this thread is ridiculous.

[AceTaru]

/sigh everyone just face it SE isnt going to listen to us. and just gonna poopcan it anyways. its what they always do. the regain/refresh switch is a horrible idea, and they know it. their looking for someway to make it so other jobs are more desirable. what they failed to do was buff the other support jobs, like RDM, or BRD to compete with embrava sch. you cant just nerf perfect defense, then it just because semi decent okay defense. When you only give us one strategy to kill something thats how we do it, then we get punished for it. dont take away our options. give us more options. help us, dont hinder us.

[Demon6324236]

Admittedly though PD/Embrava were overpowered I think they are just about the only 2-hours which were deserving of that timer. Any time we have put 2-hours to great use though, it seems as though it goes away after a bit. Perfect Dodge was at a time used for kiting the dragons for the Dyna-Beau, now its impossible thanks to the range, BW+SE was awesome for DRK, and then that went down.

2-hours are never going to be actually good because they cant limit them enough, people use them for 1 event, then wait for the abilities, then do another event. When we use 2-hours in a way that actually makes them worth the wait, they are nerfed, or they force content to be a certain way. In this case, PD/Embrava started getting to out of hand, and now they have been nerfed. I doubt anyone disagrees that they needed nerfed, just the extent they nerfed them, and the fact they were nerfed this late, made the abilities worthless & also made the events based around them much to difficult even after "adjustments" we will be getting so far.

All I can hope is the new SP abilities, and the reformed old ones, are really worth 1 hour to 30 minutes of recast, while at the same time not being so over powered they need to be nerfed again. Also I hope SE stops making content that they plan for us to beat a way we never learn how. So far as I understand we never learned exactly how to beat AV at 75, any strat by the players were nerfed and we were told there was a way, whatever it was, there was a way. Content that can not be completed, and any way to complete it is taken away, is bad content, end of story.

[ManaKing]

I think RDM could use a lot more spells: TP reduction, plague, magic defense bonus, magic damage absorb, reducing mob physical damage resistance, reducing mob magic damage resistance, magic attack bonus spells, magic accuracy spells. You should look at blue mage and how spoiled that job is, pretty much have all the enfeebling spells that can be shared with RDM. All those spells would make RDM shine once again, and obviously more youtube videos of people actually playing the job correctly, having fun, and stretching the limit of what you can do as RDM.


The job isn't that bad, it's just not broken good or handed everything.

Everyone is well aware of what BLU is, that plays RDM. It's not RDM. For all those buffs and debuffs that BLU could use, they don't. Either they don't work, or they don't work as well as damage output. Then when BLU can't do damage output, SE makes them do proc spells, because it's easier than fixing BLU.

This community is obviously closed minded about tactics, hence this thread at all. Why would you want to play a job that can custom tailor itself to lots of different situations, when you won't find people willing to play in any mode other than ZERG MODE! The price you pay to switch spells on BLU is just another stinging reminder of how much people just want things easy, instead of taking the time to enjoy the game and actually play it.

[ManaKing]

It's not trolling.

The game would be better if Embrava and Perfect Defense were never implemented. Even with the nerfs they're better than most 2hrs in the damn game.

The butthurt in this thread is ridiculous.

He's not trolling, he has an opinion and it happens to be against what the majority of people are being butthurt about, and he's calling you on it.

[Luvbunny]

Everyone is well aware of what BLU is, that plays RDM. It's not RDM. For all those buffs and debuffs that BLU could use, they don't. Either they don't work, or they don't work as well as damage output. Then when BLU can't do damage output, SE makes them do proc spells, because it's easier than fixing BLU.

This community is obviously closed minded about tactics, hence this thread at all. Why would you want to play a job that can custom tailor itself to lots of different situations, when you won't find people willing to play in any mode other than ZERG MODE! The price you pay to switch spells on BLU is just another stinging reminder of how much people just want things easy, instead of taking the time to enjoy the game and actually play it.

Hence those said spells should be given to RDM as well with increased potency and actually be able to land them to affect the tide of battles. This way it will free up BLU to do damage, it's not like they will run out of spells, they have over 100 to choose from, they still can do it beside just sitting iddle proccing in Voidwatch, the problem is spell switching and if you only have 1 blue, that person will end up just proccing and not much else.

When this happen, you can bring RDM to do what they do best, enfeeble the heck of the NM so their tp gain is minimal, slowed, blinded, paralyzed, gravity, bio, lower their physical damage resistance, lower their magic damage resistance, reduce their tps so they no longer able to perform back to back TP moves. Strategy like this that prevent Embrava + Perfect Defense + Stun Lock exploit in the first place.

[Luvbunny]

What they failed to do was buff the other support jobs, like RDM, or BRD to compete with embrava sch. you cant just nerf perfect defense, then it just because semi decent okay defense. When you only give us one strategy to kill something thats how we do it, then we get punished for it. dont take away our options. give us more options. help us, dont hinder us.

This. They are not making other support jobs perform better so that you can pursue other options other than the usual strategy. They take a lot and yet given so little back to us. Our feedbacks are ignored and not listened.

[dpdhuntress]

The bottom line is basically the 3 main things a Linkshell does (not count Voidwatch since most of the time their shout groups) is ADL, CD, and legion. All require COR, SMN, SCH.

Legion with Embrava/PD after that update will be a horror show....people will eventually stop doing it

ADL is manageable but with a decreased PD there will be a better chance something can go wrong

CD sometimes even with PD/embrava now.....things can go wrong but its also manageable

Nerf does mess with those 3 but Legion will be hit the hardest by far

[Calatilla]

I want them selfcast, so perfectly fine with me, make them the exact same as Temper except with 1 being Attack/Acc & 1 being MagicAttack/MagicAcc & Ill be happy.

And RDM would be in the exact same spot its in right now, solo or gtfo.

[Demon6324236]

And RDM would be in the exact same spot its in right now, solo or gtfo.Well rather than re-explain how I see it from the start, I will simply reply with a quote from a post I gave in the RDM forums to start me off.
In my opinion these are the 3 things RDM needs to fix the job.

A) Add Brave & Faith.

Brave & Faith should scale with Enhancing Magic, however they should not stack & should have a fairly long cast time, such as a cast time of 15 or so seconds(11ish seconds after lv99 Fast Cast trait). They should scale as Temper does, starting at 5% with low skill, and reaching 20% at 500 skill. Brave should increase Attack/Accuracy, where as Faith should increase Magic Attack/Magic Accuracy. Doing this allows RDM to be fairly potent in both forms of combat, however not at the same time. Neither spell should have negative effects, and neither spell should be able to be cast on others. The only real problem with this I see is that the Magic Attack Bonus from Faith, may cause worry in SCH & BLM. However RDM is limited to T4 spells, and I doubt BLM's better Magic Attack with T5 Nukes, or SCH's weather bonus with T5 Nukes, would be threated by RDM, even with the maximum effect.

B) Add more gear options.

RDM currently is restricted to mainly mage gear, however we do occasionally get melee gear as well. The magic gear for RDM is great, and grows alot, however when you take a look at other jobs, RDM can feel as though its physical power is forgotten. Emp gear gave many jobs massive boosts to many stats, including but not limited to, Haste, Attack, Accuracy, and skill of their main, or secondary weapons. RDM did not get this, RDM had the same treatment as WHM, BLM, and SCH, a set of JSE gear that focused completely on nothing but magic. The Estoqueur gear is by no means bad, but it is only for magic, being stacked with MND, INT, Magic Accuracy, and Magic Attack, along with magic skills. When looking at what other jobs got, this leaves me feeling as though our melee was forgotten, and even with more recent gear giving RDM some melee options, there are still massive shortages in gear we do need, such as WS gear like Athos, or TP gear, like Thaumas. Events which are actually great for gear on RDM, often are not for other jobs, such as Arch-Limbus, and Meeble Burrows, which offer some good gear for RDM's melee side, but little for other jobs, making it hard to get help with these things, especially as a job that is often left out of events, and has to solo things itself.

C) Increase Skill levels, and make current skill levels more meaningful.

We all know RDM has the highest rating in Enfeebling Magic, the highest skill in Enhancing Magic(excluding SCH during Light Arts), and decent skills in dagger & sword. However the use of Enfeebling has died out, there has been little reason to enfeeble anything in sometime, making this feature of RDM, nearly worthless. Enhancing Magic is ok, however its very limited to RDM, SCH has much better buffs for their party members, WHM has AoE spells, and much more powerful Barspells, Protectra/Shellra V, and Boost Spells that effect the party, rather than RDM's self only Gain Spells. All of this leaves RDM's enhancing far behind, and the only unique Enhancement RDM finds itself with that it can cast on others, is Phalanx, which loses its use on higher leveled, harder hitting content due to how it works. Sword & Dagger skill levels are good, however this plays into RDM's problem as well a bit, as its melee loses some accuracy & attack, which is much harder to make up for with gear than it is for many other jobs. In the end, our skills are nice, but without much to use them on, making them fairly meaningless. Bumping up Sword & Dagger to a B+, or A-, while adding new potent, and exclusive Enfeebling Magic & Enhancing Magic, should help RDM become useful again both as a melee, and a mage.



These are the 3 things I think RDM needs to be fixed. With these, we would get new spells, to make our Enhancing & Enfeebling more important, we would get new gear access, so that not only would we be potent mages, but potent fighters as well, and we would have the ability to fill a role better by using a buff to improve our position, while not overrunning jobs that currently hold those very same positions. I think this, would help make RDM the versatile hybrid job it was meant to be, and has fallen away from in recent times.This is what I think would actually fix RDM. Just the main thing I see as effective to fix RDM is Brave/Faith. With Brave RDMs might be able to melee without as much complaining. I currently melee in VW on T3 Zilart/Jeuno NMs, I have capped acc in each fight using a TP build not meant for acc, and I have parsed in the top 3 on average. The potential is there, Brave only helps to make it more flushed out & accepted.

Faith allows RDMs to have a much higher Magic Acc with enfeebling, it would make landing enfeebles much easier for a RDM, and would also grant extra Magic Attack Bonus for nuking. Cure Potency is fine how it is, we are just where we should be with healing, but nuking is lacking massively. Our MAB gear is decent, mainly because of the "all mage" gear sets like Nares offering a ton of it for many jobs, but T4 spells only, and a low tiered trait, leave us weak in nukes in many cases.

Between these 2 spells RDM could adjust between front & back line jobs given the time, allowing alot more power in it. Making it target others would result in a much lower potency. Brave for instance would make a DRK/WAR's attack & accuracy even more insane, Last Resort, Berserk, Aggressor, and then another 20% on top of that? Would be much to over powered. The same with a SCH or BLM, giving them a 20% boost to their MAB & Magic Acc would drive up their nukes a ton, especially if its multiplied after other bonus such as affinity & weather, which without those, it would make the spell much less useful in general. I think this is the same reason Temper is self target only, its 20% Double Attack, and to preserve its potency it has to be that way, otherwise it would be something like the original 5%, ending up as worthless & unwanted.

[Calatilla]

Enfeebling should be skill based, and there should be a noticeable difference between T1 and T2 enfeebles. Jobs that aren't RDM shouldn't be able to land enfeebles on a high level NM as easily as a RDM can, you said yourself, skill should mean something. But this alone won't change much of anything if all the big fights are zerg fests where enfeebling isn't desired or even needed.

Fights of old where enfeebling a mob was part of the strategy.
Fights where there actually is a strategy to begin with. (Zerging isn't a strategy)
Enfeebling skill having an active effect on landing debuffs (a lv99 SMN/RDM shouldn't have the same chance of landing slow on an NM as a lv99 RDM)

Those things need to be addressed before RDM will see use in party/alliance play.

Improving RDM`s melee potential would be a novel idea but it still won't make people invite you if you have nothing to offer that can't be done on another job. BLU is 100 times better than RDM when it comes to melee but even that job is reduced to a proc whore in most voidwatch alliances, if BLU isn't allowed to melee what makes you think they're going to let RDM.

Anyways,this thread went off topic so I'm shutting up now.

[Demon6324236]

My point exactly was that RDM should be able to land them easier. Making skill matter more seems unlikely normally however Faith would put RDM's Magic Acc alot higher which means they could have higher Enfeebling resist rates for mobs and just make sure RDM could land them. Then other jobs would struggle where as RDM would have the ability to very well, the problem with making skill be great is thanks to "all mage" gear, alot of jobs can get high skill. Faith would indirectly make RDM the best enfeebler in the game, while skill wouldn't really mean more, Faith would make its acc so much higher it would be the best in the end all the same.

[Zagen]

My point exactly was that RDM should be able to land them easier. Making skill matter more seems unlikely normally however Faith would put RDM's Magic Acc alot higher which means they could have higher Enfeebling resist rates for mobs and just make sure RDM could land them. Then other jobs would struggle where as RDM would have the ability to very well, the problem with making skill be great is thanks to "all mage" gear, alot of jobs can get high skill. Faith would indirectly make RDM the best enfeebler in the game, while skill wouldn't really mean more, Faith would make its acc so much higher it would be the best in the end all the same.
That doesn't address the real issue: currently outside of Stun enfeebles are irrelevant to battle strategies.

[Demon6324236]

I know that, its why we need new spells as well, but either way if other jobs get the same useful spells & RDM is not better at utilizing them it does RDM no good either. Its like Immuno break, if everyone can use it, it doesn't help RDM, it simply helps every job trying to enfeeble. Enfeebling itself is worthless right now, stun isn't even an enfeeble itself, its a dark magic, the entire category of Enfeebling magic is a joke as of this moment, but adding spells or making RDM good at using current spells wont help either way. We need both done, just for the sake of RDM being worthwhile, Faith would allow it to at least proc enfeebling alot better than other jobs if nothing more.

"Bumping up Sword & Dagger to a B+, or A-, while adding new potent, and exclusive Enfeebling Magic & Enhancing Magic, should help RDM become useful again both as a melee, and a mage." Last sentence of the "Increase Skill levels, and make current skill levels more meaningful." paragraph.

[Llana_Virren]

CD sometimes even with PD/embrava now.....things can go wrong but its also manageabler

I've never used or been in a group that used PD on Provenance Watcher....

As for your other examples, yes, Legion will really become what our more hardcore "leethoard" members have been asking for... because NO ONE will do it.

[Taint2]

I've never used or been in a group that used PD on Provenance Watcher....

As for your other examples, yes, Legion will really become what our more hardcore "leethoard" members have been asking for... because NO ONE will do it.



"Hardcore" groups don't use PD in Legion lol. They use 3 SCHs to stun lock the mobs.

[JohnGotti]

Don't wory Taint that stupid mithra is always having a go at "hardcore" players, just another casual idiot.

[Ophannus]

I hope they nerf Embrava and PD. As SE said since these 2hrs are so powerful they would need to make all future NMs have counter-measures against Embrava and PD to even the playingfield, such as moves that can dispel it or absorb it or deal damage/insta kill through PD. Then people will complain/crymoar.

[Dantedmc]

I hope they nerf Embrava and PD. As SE said since these 2hrs are so powerful they would need to make all future NMs have counter-measures against Embrava and PD to even the playingfield, such as moves that can dispel it or absorb it or deal damage/insta kill through PD. Then people will complain/crymoar.

Except they didn't even nerf the current nms at all other than a small hp decrease that doesn't address the real problem. I mean practically every nm attack is AoE max range 1000+ damage with debuffs that has to be negated through fanatic's, PD, or stun locking. Everything is also some sort of melee zerg. When the current nms can't even be adjusted correctly what makes you think they will do any better on new nms.

[Ophannus]

Except they didn't even nerf the current nms at all other than a small hp decrease that doesn't address the real problem. I mean practically every nm attack is AoE max range 1000+ damage with debuffs that has to be negated through fanatic's, PD, or stun locking. Everything is also some sort of melee zerg. When the current nms can't even be adjusted correctly what makes you think they will do any better on new nms.

Hall of Mul win, without Perfect Defense. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acIBFSRf9VU&feature=player_embedded)

[Dantedmc]

Hall of Mul win, without Perfect Defense. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acIBFSRf9VU&feature=player_embedded)

If you didn't notice I also said stun locking, which is just another form of damage negation. Most Groups that don't use PD use schs to stunlock the nm. I can't be 100% positive, but I'm pretty sure they are using stuns. As much as I love sch being invited, I don't think the only way to reliably survive these monsters should be stopping practically everything they do. Secondly you notice what that video has in it. EMBRAVA! Guess what's getting nerfed? EMBRAVA!

[saevel]

"Hardcore" groups don't use PD in Legion lol. They use 3 SCHs to stun lock the mobs.

Combination of PD, full time Embrava and lots of SCH stun locking. Typically PD is only used for 3~4 NMs per run, usually the more annoying ones with stupid "save or die" type moves. The rest are stun spammed.

[Arcon]

Combination of PD, full time Embrava and lots of SCH stun locking. Typically PD is only used for 3~4 NMs per run, usually the more annoying ones with stupid "save or die" type moves. The rest are stun spammed.

We've now tried both strategies, and not relying on PD at all seems to work out better so far, because it opens up more room for other jobs, and stun locking is very effective in disabling any kind of mob movement, which makes PD redundant.

[Zagen]

We've now tried both strategies, and not relying on PD at all seems to work out better so far, because it opens up more room for other jobs, and stun locking is very effective in disabling any kind of mob movement, which makes PD redundant.
Next update: Legion monsters will now build resistance to Stun.

[saevel]

We've now tried both strategies, and not relying on PD at all seems to work out better so far, because it opens up more room for other jobs, and stun locking is very effective in disabling any kind of mob movement, which makes PD redundant.

Their nerfing Embrava also which makes chain stunning MUCH harder. Embrava + haste allows those SCH's to have capped recast's, then they apply Alacrity to get a 3~4s stun recast. Without full time Embrava your looking at haste + march's which won't reach cap. So really just makes chain stunning a bit harder, that's all.

PD was really used for ADL as Shock squall isn't nearly enough. That first split will guarantee two moves going off, typically a double Oblivion Smash. That's knockback, gravity and paralyze for your DD's at a minimum, possibly death from the severe damage or shortly thereafter. Gotta have the 2nd Squall ready for the moment it twitch's to reapply or you'll get Slashed / Smashed / Implosioned to death. If your chose wrong it's basically a wipe unless your stupidly lucky on the 2nd one not deciding to end your run. Legion is more about denying the monsters any form of special move while you pound them into the ground and hope the later ones don't press their "I Win" button.

[Taint2]

Their nerfing Embrava also which makes chain stunning MUCH harder. Embrava + haste allows those SCH's to have capped recast's, then they apply Alacrity to get a 3~4s stun recast. Without full time Embrava your looking at haste + march's which won't reach cap. So really just makes chain stunning a bit harder, that's all.

PD was really used for ADL as Shock squall isn't nearly enough. That first split will guarantee two moves going off, typically a double Oblivion Smash. That's knockback, gravity and paralyze for your DD's at a minimum, possibly death from the severe damage or shortly thereafter. Gotta have the 2nd Squall ready for the moment it twitch's to reapply or you'll get Slashed / Smashed / Implosioned to death. If your chose wrong it's basically a wipe unless your stupidly lucky on the 2nd one not deciding to end your run. Legion is more about denying the monsters any form of special move while you pound them into the ground and hope the later ones don't press their "I Win" button.


lol, what?

People are 3 manning ADL, people are killing him daily without PD. He is not hard, he just requires organization. Yes even played perfect he can pull an FU card out. (looking at you 10% split) But any decent group is winning 90%+ of the time.

Why wouldn't haste+march cap recast? You act like they aren't casting in haste/FC gear or you don't understand how casting works.

[saevel]

lol, what?

People are 3 manning ADL, people are killing him daily without PD. He is not hard, he just requires organization. Yes even played perfect he can pull an FU card out. (looking at you 10% split) But any decent group is winning 90%+ of the time.

Why wouldn't haste+march cap recast? You act like they aren't casting in haste/FC gear or you don't understand how casting works.

People are not 3 manning ADL, three DD's are killing him with an army of mules / dual-box / tri-box characters. Namely in the sheer number of SMN's needed. We farm the ADL marrows to sell weekly and typically sell 7+ depending on how much time we have to farm pop sets. I'm intimately familiar with that jack a$$ and he's a push over for the first 40~50% of his HP, after that he likes to spam his "I Win" button. During his splitting animation he is invulnerable to all damage / effects, so you gotta wait for him to split, until which he'll immediately use two TP moves. After that it's a matter of luck, if you chose the right one then he's stupid easy to win as your squall will last most of the time. The problems come when you chose the wrong one (50% of the time) and now your on a very short timer to kill the second one before it does Terra Slash, Dyna Implosion or splits into four clones. Again invulnerable during the animation and all four will immediately use a TP move when their appear, pretty much guarantees a wipe.

We've had runs when we've chosen the wrong one 5 out of 7 pops. Thankfully only wiped on one of them due to second one using implosion at 5% then splitting.

Speaking from experience that capping stun recasts is quite a bit harder without embrava. Remember your wanting magic accuracy and dark magic skill when you cast stun to get a first or second tier land for maximum duration / effect. FC caps at 80% and can only reduce recasts by 40%, the rest is up to haste equip / spell. Stun is a 45s recast, to get it to 3~5s you need to cap haste while using Alacrity.

[Zagen]

Speaking from experience that capping stun recasts is quite a bit harder without embrava.

Haste Spell: 15%
March x2 (w/+4): 28.4%
Total: 43.4%

0.35% short of capped magical haste if the BRD has 99 Gala then they cap magical haste just like embrava + haste would. Am I missing something? I mean that seems pretty simple to calculate.

[saevel]

Haste Spell: 15%
March x2 (w/+4): 28.4%
Total: 43.4%

0.35% short of capped magical haste if the BRD has 99 Gala then they cap magical haste just like embrava + haste would. Am I missing something? I mean that seems pretty simple to calculate.

Don't expect all the BRD's to have 99 Gala, also means having a BRD in the SCH party where previously there was just SCH's with the SMN's for Hastega. You embrava'd up and just keep on going, no worries.

Realistically your looking at 25.2% haste from most BRDs (95 Gala or the +3 instrument from Bastok T4). Puts you at 40.2% haste. You gotta find another 39.8% recast reduction from FC and gear haste. Remember FC is /2, so 5% FC is 2.5% recast. SCH's recast is calculated separately outside of FC / Haste reduction. It seems a small amount of haste missing but at that level it ends up being a few seconds, and those seconds count.

Just noticed that BRD has these (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Aoidos%27_Manchettes_%2B2). I'm assuming the March +1 stacks with instrument? If so then +4 is easy to get and capped (or close enough) magic haste shouldn't be an issue. Still more annoying then before but not a game breaker.

[Taint2]

People are not 3 manning ADL, three DD's are killing him with an army of mules / dual-box / tri-box characters. Namely in the sheer number of SMN's needed. We farm the ADL marrows to sell weekly and typically sell 7+ depending on how much time we have to farm pop sets. I'm intimately familiar with that jack a$$ and he's a push over for the first 40~50% of his HP, after that he likes to spam his "I Win" button. During his splitting animation he is invulnerable to all damage / effects, so you gotta wait for him to split, until which he'll immediately use two TP moves. After that it's a matter of luck, if you chose the right one then he's stupid easy to win as your squall will last most of the time. The problems come when you chose the wrong one (50% of the time) and now your on a very short timer to kill the second one before it does Terra Slash, Dyna Implosion or splits into four clones. Again invulnerable during the animation and all four will immediately use a TP move when their appear, pretty much guarantees a wipe.

We've had runs when we've chosen the wrong one 5 out of 7 pops. Thankfully only wiped on one of them due to second one using implosion at 5% then splitting.

Speaking from experience that capping stun recasts is quite a bit harder without embrava. Remember your wanting magic accuracy and dark magic skill when you cast stun to get a first or second tier land for maximum duration / effect. FC caps at 80% and can only reduce recasts by 40%, the rest is up to haste equip / spell. Stun is a 45s recast, to get it to 3~5s you need to cap haste while using Alacrity.



If you are selling 7+ per week you understand that he is not nearly as hard as you make him out to be. You also know that PD is not needed. (although it helps hedge things in your favor) I bet you win plenty without anyone dieing, including your mules that never see PD. If you pick the wrong clone, why isn't the 2nd ADL getting Squalled?

And learn to recast before spitting that nonsense.

[saevel]

If you are selling 7+ per week you understand that he is not nearly as hard as you make him out to be. You also know that PD is not needed. (although it helps hedge things in your favor) I bet you win plenty without anyone dieing, including your mules that never see PD. If you pick the wrong clone, why isn't the 2nd ADL getting Squalled?

And learn to recast before spitting that nonsense.

ADL is not hard, he's cheap, learn the difference. A NPC that you talk to who flips a coin, heads you die, tails you get a reward, that is not hard but it is cheap.

Without PD your chances of winning are very small. You will win sometimes, not due to some level of skill but because your coin landed on heads. You use PD to hedge against those times it lands on tails. Normally you'd wipe, but if PD you get to flip the coin again.

You can not shock ADL when he's splitting, he's invulnerable to all damage. When it splits it actually creates two new monsters and the old one is removed. The two new one will immediately use a TP move each, they will do this before your SMN's can ever target them. Now if that TP move is something like an Assault then you can laugh it off, if it's Oblivion Smash then people are most likely going to die or be at critical health (600~1000 damage each depending). O.Smash also has the nasty side effect of paralyze, so your SMN's are now paralyzed and BP is a 40~45s timer ability. And that's assuming your non-PD SMN's even survived the double O.smash, though Schitzro and EA tend to help towards that end.

Now your onto the real fight, their both shocked cause you were able to get at least squall off. You beat the first one and he'll come un-shocked somewhere around 5~25% depending on how many DD's are paralyzed. Now if your good enough and super buffed it'll get one more move off at most before it dies, if your lucky it's an assault or he'll try to cast a spell and be in animation, if your not lucky then it'll be tera slash or another o.smash. If your really unlucky it'll be implosion.

Now the first one is dead, if you fliped heads then you get a marrow and rejoice. If your flipped tails all your work was for nothing as you now have another one to kill. He's at 40~60% HP, one or two of your squalls are down, the others might be dead or impaired. And worst of all the timer has been ticking and he's close to splitting again. If you don't kill him fast he'll split into four and immediately wipe you. You have to deal with all the above problems but with less firepower and status ailments.

That's if you don't use PD, chances of survival are very minimal though not impossible. Use PD and the first clone will die as your DD's are super buffed and impervious to most of it's cheap attacks. PD might not save you on the second one as it has a high chance of using Implosion / Tera Slash and / or splitting. I've been in situations were we got the second one down to 5% and wiped due to implosion or a split.

So even with a finely tuned strategy and a highly skilled group the event relies greatly on dumb luck. PD serves to stack the dice in your favor.

Ohh and all that I said above must be done 6~7 times in a row, though 8 was our highest yet. We use an army of COR mules to reset the 2hrs on our SMNs, we can usually get 1 ~ 2 resets and rarely 3 out of them. We tend to bring 2~4 SMNs though only one or two of them are "real" SMNs with skill and gear, the others are mules or abyssea leveled ones for the purpose of PD only. We will use each SMN for one PD before trying to reset the crew. We've also learned to bring one or two BLU's along as an insurance policy. We'll stick one of them with our four DD's so they'll receive all the buffs and PD. Their not as powerful as our primary DD's but Sudden Lunge has been a life saver whenever our SMN's get wiped. Its not nearly as good as Squall but a BLU can spam several stuns back to back and slow the second one down so you can finish the job.

[saevel]

ADL's TP moves.


Transfusion: AoE Drain.
Manastrom: AoE Aspir.
Tera Slash: High conal damage, ignores Utsusemi. Sometimes inflicts Death.
Violent Rupture: AoE plus Knockback and Weight, absorbed by Utsusemi.
Oblivion Smash: AoE damage, absorbed by Utsusemi.
Dynamic Assault: Single target physical damage.
Dynamic Implosion: AoE physical damage and Terror.

What I've seen is that above 50% HP he'll greatly favor Dynamic Assault, Violent Rupture, Transfusion and Manastorm. Under 50% but above 25% he'll favor Oblivion Smash but can still do any of them. Under 25% he really likes to use Smash, Tera Slash and Implosion but can also use any of the above. Something else is that the first split REALLY likes to do double Smash's as in out of all our pops it seems a disproportionate amount of the time he's doing that. The clones do not always do the same move, I've seen it split into four and had one tera slash, two smash's and one implosion before. I've rarely seen then use the "easy" moves when it's splitting at low HP.

His AI seems to be programmed to go easy at first but then to start smashing his "I Win" button the moment he gets under 25% HP. This normally wouldn't be a problem for a good stun zerg except his total immunity that happens when he splits and the exceptionally large range of his more stupid moves. It's like SE's deliberately went sadistic with him.

[Protey]

When it splits it actually creates two new monsters and the old one is removed.

I disagree with this. I liken it more to shedding a skin like a snake. Whenever my LS goes to kill him, one of us will stay locked on to the first one we were killing. In every single instance, this was the incorrect one to kill. So like I said, more like shedding a skin like a snake. So whoever is still locked on, needs to announce it, and everyone switch to the other one.

[Taint2]

I disagree with this. I liken it more to shedding a skin like a snake. Whenever my LS goes to kill him, one of us will stay locked on to the first one we were killing. In every single instance, this was the incorrect one to kill. So like I said, more like shedding a skin like a snake. So whoever is still locked on, needs to announce it, and everyone switch to the other one.


No he definitely splits into 2 new mobs. There are 8 total that can spawn.


And Saevel that wall of noob text shows you have a very limited understanding of ADL. Please stop posting paragraphs of the obvious and spew the bad info in between.

Terror should never get off, he terros under 20%, so you squall at 25%, he is dead before he ever has a chance to move again. If you pick the wrong mob you squall the 2nd clone at 25%. Its easy, play better.

Please farm him without PD with a very high success rate, get your facts straight.


Transfusion: AoE Drain. - harmless
Manastrom: AoE Aspir. - harmless
Tera Slash: High conal damage, ignores Utsusemi. Sometimes inflicts Death. - annoying but should hit 1 person max
Violent Rupture: AoE plus Knockback and Weight, absorbed by Utsusemi. - harmless positioned correctly
Oblivion Smash: AoE damage, absorbed by Utsusemi. - high damage but not killing anyone, PDT sets at splits
Dynamic Assault: Single target physical damage. - harmless
Dynamic Implosion: AoE physical damage and Terror. - should never get this off, if he does someone messed up


I'm definitely not argueing that PD helps bandaid bad players/strategy but it is hardly needed. The biggest FU move is an under 10% split by the 2nd clone. Not any of the TP moves, since they can all be handled.

[MarkovChain]

Hall of Mul win, without Perfect Defense. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acIBFSRf9VU&feature=player_embedded)


What's the difference ? How does this make you more skilled than PD strategy ? You are replacing SMNs by SCH, so ...? Very soon with PD nerf you will go back to PD trust me.

Also taint is trolling too hard, either you got a PD less kill video of ADL and you prove your point or you shut up.

[saevel]

No he definitely splits into 2 new mobs. There are 8 total that can spawn.


And Saevel that wall of noob text shows you have a very limited understanding of ADL. Please stop posting paragraphs of the obvious and spew the bad info in between.

Terror should never get off, he terros under 20%, so you squall at 25%, he is dead before he ever has a chance to move again. If you pick the wrong mob you squall the 2nd clone at 25%. Its easy, play better.

Please farm him without PD with a very high success rate, get your facts straight.


Transfusion: AoE Drain. - harmless
Manastrom: AoE Aspir. - harmless
Tera Slash: High conal damage, ignores Utsusemi. Sometimes inflicts Death. - annoying but should hit 1 person max
Violent Rupture: AoE plus Knockback and Weight, absorbed by Utsusemi. - harmless positioned correctly
Oblivion Smash: AoE damage, absorbed by Utsusemi. - high damage but not killing anyone, PDT sets at splits
Dynamic Assault: Single target physical damage. - harmless
Dynamic Implosion: AoE physical damage and Terror. - should never get this off, if he does someone messed up


I'm definitely not argueing that PD helps bandaid bad players/strategy but it is hardly needed. The biggest FU move is an under 10% split by the 2nd clone. Not any of the TP moves, since they can all be handled.

Bullvine scatology

Also shows you don't do it often, or didn't pay attention when you did.

Tera slash hits multiple people not one. If hate switch's during the animation it'll hit everyone in an arch from the first person to the second person. I've personally been killing by Slash's that hit three people, two of us were on opposite sides of ADL.

I already mentioned his first abilities are weak, it's Slash, Smash and Implosion that do the damage. When he splits he WILL get two moves off, it'll be double Smash's most of the time. That's 600~1000 damage + paralyze + knockback depending on gear sets to everyone within 30 feet. Your DD's will survive, your SMN's have a good chance of dieing. He will also get off at least one more more WS before he dies, if it's a smash then it'll kill people.

Your avoiding what I said, that the double smash's and paralyze can and will prevent you from getting another shock off on the second ADL clone. The first one is piss easy to kill if you can survive the Smash's after split.

Your acting like I said killing one clone is hard, it's not. It's the second clone that proves difficult as by the time your fighting it the first has already been pushing it's "I Win" button. Without PD your chances of killing the second one go down pretty quickly. I've killed this guy way to many times. He's cheap not hard, learn the difference.

[saevel]

Also taint is trolling too hard, either you got a PD less kill video of ADL and you prove your point or you shut up.

It's possible if you get lucky. Pop, stun it and unleash on it. It'll split at 45~60% and do immediately do two moves. If your lucky and those two are pansy moves then you can beat it down and shock it again. It's what happens when it chooses to do double smashs and / or you pick the wrong clone. PD lets your DD's survive all the BS and continue putting out a high rate of damage, also allows one SMN to remain unscathed so he can get a shock off at lower HP. We've also learned to put a good (read: not gimpy abysea leveled) BLU/WAR in there as insurance on the second clone. Using that we have a very high win rate, we only wipe when we chose wrong and the second clone does an implosion and / or splits at low HP into four clones.

[Demon6324236]

You waste your time. Its Pchan, he has the whole "Vid or GTFO" idea, even if you broke it down into math to explain exactly how it worked, he would ignore it till he saw it in a vid, and even then, would find some fault in it that says it can not be done because of <enter poor reasons here> and thats that.

[MarkovChain]

I already mentioned his first abilities are weak, it's Slash, Smash and Implosion that do the damage. When he splits he WILL get two moves off, it'll be double Smash's most of the time. That's 600~1000 damage + paralyze + knockback depending on gear sets to everyone within 30 feet.

And silence, bind, blind, gravity for one of the moves. Think NQ DL.

[saevel]

And silence, bind, blind, gravity for one of the moves. Think NQ DL.

For the most part these are not a big issue, though Bind / Gravity can shut your DD's down as the knock back puts them out of melee range. The land of azure underwear forgets about that as their using special "ninja magic" that ignores those effects. Silence is easily removable with an echo drop, it's paralyze that hurts you as its potent and can take several attempts to remove it. You do NOT want to be using a BP with that paralyze on.

[saevel]

You waste your time. Its Pchan, he has the whole "Vid or GTFO" idea, even if you broke it down into math to explain exactly how it worked, he would ignore it till he saw it in a vid, and even then, would find some fault in it that says it can not be done because of <enter poor reasons here> and thats that.

Well honestly Taint was horribly wrong about how ADL fights go. That thing likes to use cheap moves that screw not only with your DD's but also your mages. Their aoe range is so large that it ~will~ hit everyone. The damage is bad enough but the stupid status ailments make it worse, and ADL will get at least two off simultaneously when it splits the first time. Depending how you split your shocks is how many total it can get off. If your shock right after pop you can limit it to one move pre-split, but that's one less squall you have for the 2nd clone should you pick the wrong one. We've moved to using BLU's stunning for the first stage of the fight, saves our shocks for later and is enough to lower his damage to those outside of the PD party.

ADL is not hard, heck he's not even that high of level, but he is extremely cheap. Makes the fight very random requiring your to win several coin toss's with highly skilled / geared players. Using PD just makes the fight less cheap / random.

[Taint2]

Bullvine scatology

Also shows you don't do it often, or didn't pay attention when you did.

Tera slash hits multiple people not one. If hate switch's during the animation it'll hit everyone in an arch from the first person to the second person. I've personally been killing by Slash's that hit three people, two of us were on opposite sides of ADL.

I already mentioned his first abilities are weak, it's Slash, Smash and Implosion that do the damage. When he splits he WILL get two moves off, it'll be double Smash's most of the time. That's 600~1000 damage + paralyze + knockback depending on gear sets to everyone within 30 feet. Your DD's will survive, your SMN's have a good chance of dieing. He will also get off at least one more more WS before he dies, if it's a smash then it'll kill people.

Your avoiding what I said, that the double smash's and paralyze can and will prevent you from getting another shock off on the second ADL clone. The first one is piss easy to kill if you can survive the Smash's after split.

Your acting like I said killing one clone is hard, it's not. It's the second clone that proves difficult as by the time your fighting it the first has already been pushing it's "I Win" button. Without PD your chances of killing the second one go down pretty quickly. I've killed this guy way to many times. He's cheap not hard, learn the difference.



Tera slash hitting more then one person is the players fault. We only use 3-4 DDs max but a simple spread takes care of that move.

Knockback should never be a factor, again if knockback puts you out of range its the players fault.

If you squall at 25% (like you should) he doesn't get anything off that is in the "I Win" catagory. Again the only "I Win" is an under 10% split from the 2nd clone and that happens 1 out of 20 fights?


Marrows are hard:

Arch Dynamis Lord

Dynamis - Xarcabard

Killed 7580 times and thats just guildwork players. Easily could double that, probably tripple it for the entire player base.

[saevel]

Tera slash hitting more then one person is the players fault. We only use 3-4 DDs max but a simple spread takes care of that move.

Knockback should never be a factor, again if knockback puts you out of range its the players fault.

Shows your trolling. You can't "be spread out" and all be inside the alcove to avoid knock back.

We use 4 DD's (and a BLU) spread out around him. I've personally been killed with Tera slash while facing his back.

The arcing nature of Tera slash has been discussed to death, you should know better.

[Taint2]

Shows your trolling. You can't "be spread out" and all be inside the alcove to avoid knock back.

We use 4 DD's (and a BLU) spread out around him. I've personally been killed with Tera slash while facing his back.

The arcing nature of Tera slash has been discussed to death, you should know better.


Play better? Tera slash is conal, there is enough room for 4 DDs to spread out and never get more then 1 tagged by it.

We place 2 DDs on each end of the door and 1 DD by each lamp. We've had multiple deaths from Tera Slash but its all been player error, not some made up story about players getting hit from the front and back at the same time.

[saevel]

Play better? Tera slash is conal, there is enough room for 4 DDs to spread out and never get more then 1 tagged by it.

We place 2 DDs on each end of the door and 1 DD by each lamp. We've had multiple deaths from Tera Slash but its all been player error, not some made up story about players getting hit from the front and back at the same time.

Your ignoring what I just said. Tera is not just conal it arcs from the start to the end during it's animation. When all your DD's are at capped hate, like they should be, then hate will change every time someone hits ADL. So often it'll hit multiple people.

Just goes to show you be trolling the OF for lulz.

[MarkovChain]

Tera slash hitting more then one person is the players fault. We only use 3-4 DDs max but a simple spread takes care of that move.

Wrong. Tera slash can hit melees in front or behind or spread around in the same move, I belive that happens when both hits proc. It's not a frontal aoe. Saevel is right.

[MarkovChain]

Killed 7580 times and thats just guildwork players. Easily could double that, probably tripple it for the entire player base.
Well considering the stats on meeble I'd say the GW users belong to the less skilled players so you can probaly mutliply this by 10. All done with PD though.

[Taint2]

Well considering the stats on meeble I'd say the GW users belong to the less skilled players so you can probaly mutliply this by 10. All done with PD though.


Would love more info on Tera Slash then, it rarely goes off, but we are good about 1 DD dieing.

Not sure how the stats = skilled??? It just records the number of times a mob has been killed and the drops, doesn't record how it was killed. Most people don't even do Meebles.

10x would be 70,000 kills for a mob that Saevel trys to make sound hard. ChanClan has killed this guy 800 times??? Using a 6 man strat. (sometimes 3! lol) Big shells are killing him 9 times in one run and not using PD on every kill.

[MarkovChain]

meeble is very easy FFXIDB says a lot about how often GW user can beat a meeble boss lol. From what I remember me and mdk were at 15+ kills when they were at 10 only. They only have 53 kills atm meaning they only killed it 5x more than me mew ? Comparatively samursk : 100 kills, silaglith 200 kills. It's fairly pathetic if you ask me. It's not exactly a reference. I don't think anyone claims ADL is hard except our good old nynja, it's just that it's impossible without PD or at least it's very unlikely. I think I'm the one that made low man ADl popular ?

[Plasticleg]

It's because we aren't french. (duh!)

[Taint2]

meeble is very easy FFXIDB says a lot about how often GW user can beat a meeble boss lol. From what I remember me and mdk were at 15+ kills when they were at 10 only. They only have 53 kills atm meaning they only killed it 5x more than me mew ? Comparatively samursk : 100 kills, silaglith 200 kills. It's fairly pathetic if you ask me. It's not exactly a reference. I don't think anyone claims ADL is hard except our good old nynja, it's just that it's impossible without PD or at least it's very unlikely. I think I'm the one that made low man ADl popular ?


Yeah we started 6 manning him right after you. I was the only one sticking up for you for a long time when everyone else said 6man was impossible. Just like you say PDless is impossible now even though its been done by many LSs. I honestly think you could do it, if you tried, just takes 2 good Squalls.

As for meebles my group was one of the first to farm the mega boss. (along with yours) But Meebles extremely easy content, we blew through the entire thing with 3 players and a mule. I don't think its a good test of skill at all.

[saevel]

Would love more info on Tera Slash then, it rarely goes off, but we are good about 1 DD dieing.

Not sure how the stats = skilled??? It just records the number of times a mob has been killed and the drops, doesn't record how it was killed. Most people don't even do Meebles.

10x would be 70,000 kills for a mob that Saevel trys to make sound hard. ChanClan has killed this guy 800 times??? Using a 6 man strat. (sometimes 3! lol) Big shells are killing him 9 times in one run and not using PD on every kill.

Don't put words in my mouth, I never said he was hard, only that he was extremely cheap.

Your lack of knowledge about slash's arcing nature shows your just parroting what others have said. Just like you discounted Smash's paralyze effect on your SMN's blood pact JA.

I keep saying it, maybe it'll eventually get through your head. ADL is not hard, he is extremely cheap. PD is used to mitigate his cheapness. You still haven't spoken how you deal with double smash's extreme damage and paralyze effect. You won't be healing that HP back with that paralyze on and by the time you've removed it people are already going down.

Or he could be a total pansy and use two weak moves and give up the marrow on the first clone kill.

[saevel]

Yeah we started 6 manning him right after you. I was the only one sticking up for you for a long time when everyone else said 6man was impossible. Just like you say PDless is impossible now even though its been done by many LSs. I honestly think you could do it, if you tried, just takes 2 good Squalls.

Shows your again glossing over the 2nd clone. First clone kills are easy if smash doesn't screw you over. It's the second clone that makes you want to have PD during the initial phase of the fight.

[MarkovChain]

the weekest move it can do is double oblivion smash. I doubt you can stun it because <bt> macro won't work as they repop yellow and by the time a SMN (that must be in range) target plus hit macro plus charging time is over the sync move will go through and silence/bind everyone (likely) and mostly kill people. Any ramuh will likely be dead and by the time you recast+echo drop it's over. I mean you can always try to stun lock dynamis lord, I doubt you can do it even on him.

[saevel]

the weekest move it can do is double oblivion smash

You can't stun it, it goes off instantly the moment they reappear. We're talking about the split that happens at 40~60% so it doesn't have access to Implosion / Slash yet. He seems to favor using double Smash but I've seen him using assault / rupture before which are jokes if you have a DT set on. If he splits under 25% then it's a wipe unless you get crazy lucky. Killing off one clone isn't hard if you keep him shocked, he'll typically get one move off though due to the activation / charge time on Shock. It's the second clone that presents the real "difficulty", by the time you get to it people are dying and / or paralyzed. It's got a much higher change of dividing again or using slash / implosion.

As there is no way for the players to control which TP moves ADL use's, it becomes a RNG event. PD just lets you hedge the odds in your favor which results in a higher winning chance. Trying to kill ADL without PD is risking your pop set, which is 15m gil now on Lakshmi. IDK about you guys, I'm not going to be risking 15m gil for some "Linkshell Pride!!!" BS. Plus the event won't change much of the ADL fight, you'll be poping PD at ~70% before he's had a chance to split and burning down the first clone. With five super buffed DD's (4xPure DD + BLU/WAR) that is more then enough power to kill the second one off before the shorter PD expires, though you'll be within the "weakening" period of it.

[Taint2]

We pop PD at 70% and always have. No point in popping it while he's in LOL stage.

And why is the 2nd clone any different then the first with 2 SMNs? One SMN squalls the first at 25% the other SMN squalls the 2nd at 25%.

The PPP can be mad annoying, but again its the teams fault the squaller isn't taken care of. Squalling is the most important job in the kill. (also the most fun once 10k Reso's aren't fun to see anymore)

Our none PD wins we always picked the first clone but we also don't bring an alliance. 4 SMNs like the bigger shells have increase your chances by a great margin.

Either way the mob is not hard and his cheapness can be controlled, he's been killed 15000 to 70000 times.

I finished yet another 99 Relic tonight, so much luck involved in the kills lol.

[saevel]

And why is the 2nd clone any different then the first with 2 SMNs? One SMN squalls the first at 25% the other SMN squalls the 2nd at 25%.

2ND one is more dangerous because your PD SMN has already used squall and now your relying on SMNs who may or may not be alive, paralyzed or able to move. Melee's may or may not be alive or paralyzed. And worst of all it's been out long enough that it has a high chance of splitting soon which spells instant loss unless our very lucky.


Our none PD wins we always picked the first clone but we also don't bring an alliance. 4 SMNs like the bigger shells have increase your chances by a great margin.

That is the reason you won, not skill. You flipped the coin and it landed on heads, you got a prize.

[MarkovChain]

We pop PD at 70% and always have. No point in popping it while he's in LOL stage.

l.

Breakga, see my 3 man video. It actually breaked the second monk for a good 10 sec before the smn had MP back. With the upcoming VU everyone will have to risk it though, i'll be using the strat in the vid. The difference is that the initial stun lock will force him to split exactly at 60%, meaning yo have to deal more damage on the second clone.

[Taint2]

Breakga, see my 3 man video. It actually breaked the second monk for a good 10 sec before the smn had MP back. With the upcoming VU everyone will have to risk it though, i'll be using the strat in the vid. The difference is that the initial stun lock will force him to split exactly at 60%, meaning yo have to deal more damage on the second clone.



Sure 3 manning it Breakga is an issue. But normally WHMs are out of range of breakga, so its never an issue. PDing at 70% has cost us twice from ADL sleeping Alexander, but that was an easy fix. (magic mode ADL)

The bigger shells are killing both clones at the same time, with and without PD. I've done it that way (6 DDs) but we typically don't have that kind of man power.

Saeval - try harder, play better. Every ADL wipe we've had has been player/strategy error. How often do you wipe? Probably close to never, which means all ADLs BS can be handled with the correct approach.

[Monchat]

You can't stun it, it goes off instantly the moment they reappear. We're talking about the split that happens at 40~60% so it doesn't have access to Implosion / Slash yet.

Tera slash is unlocked at 39%. If you kill too fast and he splits below 40%, it becomes a triple split and can triple tera slash. I believe implosion is unocked at 19% the same way and can quadruple split then.

[saevel]

Tera slash is unlocked at 39%. If you kill too fast and he splits below 40%, it becomes a triple split and can triple tera slash. I believe implosion is unocked at 19% the same way and can quadruple split then.

That's kinda what I said. You don't even want to bring it under 45% HP before it splits, we've actually had to have people turn around for a few seconds before cause of how fast we were killing it.

As to taint's attempt at trolling. How can we have a near perfect win rate and "learn to play better"? The only times we've ever lost were due to the second clone splitting and / or implosion.

How is ADL getting a spell off to begin with? We SL it the moment it appears. SL can have the same duration as squall but is less accurate, the BLU needs to actually be good with a set for it. You then beat it down, it'll get one move off right after stun wears but before we can reapply. Then Split -> double smash (goodbye if you don't have PD on) -> engage clone, stun clone, kill cone (it'll get one move off right as stun wears). By the time you move to the 2nd clone you've already sustained approx four TP moves, two of which are going to be smash.

I've had wins where nobody died, I've had wins where half the alliance was dead including two SMN's. All PD does is ensure your DD party survives and is unaffected by most moves so it can continue pouring out damage no matter what happens.

[Taint2]

The only times we've ever lost were due to the second clone splitting and / or implosion.



Thank you for proving my point.

People have near flawless win rates on a mob you says has an FU button and is so tricky. You have a near flawless win history and still post walls of text on all the ways he is cheap. My exact point is with a good strat you can eliminate almost all chances of losing. Obviously you know that with your near flawless win history.

Like I said 2-3 pages ago, the only FU button is when the 2nd clone splits under 10%. Everything else can be contained.

And WTF with the BLU, what a waste of an alliance spot. He should be on SMN,COR or DD, maybe ADL wouldn't be as scary then.

[saevel]

Thank you for proving my point.

People have near flawless win rates on a mob you says has an FU button and is so tricky. You have a near flawless win history and still post walls of text on all the ways he is cheap. My exact point is with a good strat you can eliminate almost all chances of losing. Obviously you know that with your near flawless win history.

Like I said 2-3 pages ago, the only FU button is when the 2nd clone splits under 10%. Everything else can be contained.

And WTF with the BLU, what a waste of an alliance spot. He should be on SMN,COR or DD, maybe ADL wouldn't be as scary then.

That's with PD, without PD your loss chance goes up quite a bit. Namely on the 2nd clone. Maybe you like gambling with a 15m popset for "Linkshell Pride" but I don't. 50% of the time you will get the 2nd clone, and without PD your going to lose unless you get lucky.

As for the BLU, we found stun spam to be absolutely amazing on the 2nd clone. I've already said it, though I fear you don't even read my posts, that the BLU is an insurance policy on the 2nd clone. The non-DD party isn't protected with PD, thus by the time you engage the 2nd clone (or shortly thereafter) there is a good chance their dead or stuck with shitty status ailments. The BLU ensures that no matter what we can stun lock it at low HP. Basically it increases our overall win rate. We already have plenty of DD, so much that we hold WS's during the first portion to prevent bringing it under 45%, adding more doesn't help any. The people coming BLU don't have SMN much less a properly geared / skilled SMN. We typically have two "real" SMN's with two others that are either dualbox or abyssea / barely leveled. More isn't going to do anything but give us another PD.

Plus SL is the exact same stun as squall, just lower magic accuracy. Great for saving your squalls to be used during the dangerous phases. Of course you probably didn't know that.

[MarkovChain]

I'm not a fan of stun locking even with PD on because ADL's AI tells him to split at 60%. If stunned it automatically splits, if not, you have a near 100% chance to bring it under 50% by synching 2 ws (no more), which make the kill safer in case the first clone is wrong (big tip for off forums readers lol, ty pchan!).

[Llana_Virren]

I'm not a fan of stun locking even with PD on because ADL's AI tells him to split at 60%. If stunned it automatically splits, if not, you have a near 100% chance to bring it under 50% by synching 2 ws (no more), which make the kill safer in case the first clone is wrong (big tip for off forums readers lol, ty pchan!).

Typically when people talk about stunlocking ADL, they're talking about post-split and sub20%. Stunning him on spawn isn't really a necessity and there are seldom any gains (especially if you're using PD).

[MarkovChain]

Nope the discussion is about stun locking ADl without PD vs using PD.

[Taint2]

Nope the discussion is about stun locking ADl without PD vs using PD.


You still don't stun the first 40-60%. (we do throw a stun when putting PD up at 70% however but its from a DRK) He is a tame beast until the split as we all know.

[MarkovChain]

You do because otherwise it rapes you.

[Taint2]

You do because otherwise it rapes you.



What? The only annoying part is if he's in magic mode but embrava and a couple mules more then handle that. Our setup isn't the same as yours. We bring our WHM abyssea mules.

We've been PDing at 70% since we started ADL early in the year. The only stun comes from a DRK while we put up PD. (that was our countermeasure to the sleepga issue)

All 3 kills yesterday we picked the wrong clone and won. The last one split into 4 at 5% and did Tera slashx4 and we won.

Edit: He also doesn't rape the first 40-50% his TP moves are easy to manager and he has 0 regain. One of our first ADLs he slept our entire alliance and we all stayed alive for multiple minutes.

[MarkovChain]

slowga,silencega,breakga,sleepga, violent rupture (petrify) +damage, oblivion smash (silence,bind), aero/bliza/fira/thuda/stone-ga 3

Also pding at 70% is diffrent than PDing after split dude. It should be at 70% after each melee has done a WS which is 2 seconds after start. You also said you stun at 70%, facepalm as it forces him to split at 60% as explained above.

[Taint2]

slowga,silencega,breakga,sleepga, violent rupture (petrify) +damage, oblivion smash (silence,bind), aero/bliza/fira/thuda/stone-ga 3

Also pding at 70% is diffrent than PDing after split dude. It should be at 70% after each melee has done a WS which is 2 seconds after start. You also said you stun at 70%, facepalm as it forces him to split at 60% as explained above.


We slow kill him. We don't go hard at all and try to limit TP feed. (he has no regain) 2 DDs max on him until the split. We prefer MNKs but have used just about every combo.

None of the magic or abilities pose any type of threat. Everyone uses Poison pots, mages ofcourse have echos. Slowga can be annoying since the rehaste comes from a dual boxed mule but slowga isn't a deal breaker by any means.

He does split above 50% a lot, which is never an issue with WARs popping 8-12k Reso.

[MarkovChain]

You do everything wrong basically, except using mnks. You don't use PD at start but use embrava ! And what are you gaining ? Going slow on him makes the regain useless, stunning it early let it split 15% earlier than what it should. But more seriously why do you delay PD, are you having killing speed issues ? My 4 monks always have time to kill 2 clones (granted we are good) except on triple split which you don't control.

Also WAR+resolution is nonsense, I think I established it. Bandwagon. Where is your proof that you kill ADL w/o PD already ?

[Taint2]

You do everything wrong basically, except using mnks. You don't use PD at start but use embrava ! And what are you gaining ? Going slow on him makes the regain useless, stunning it early let it split 15% earlier than what it should. But more seriously why do you delay PD, are you having killing speed issues ? My 4 monks always have time to kill 2 clones (granted we are good) except on triple split which you don't control.

Also WAR+resolution is nonsense, I think I established it. Bandwagon. Where is your proof that you kill ADL w/o PD already ?



What? Doing it differently is not doing it wrong.

I don't question your strat because it works, just like ours works fine. We don't use a BRD we use Embrava.

Kill speed is not a problem, we just hedge the easy part in our favor. We do him with 3 DDs alot.

Our last fight last night we ended up fighting 4 different clones and he got a terror move off and we still killed. Doing PD at 70% gives us more time and as I've said the first 40-50% he's harmless.

And WAR+Reso absolutely destroys this mob. 20k damage in a matter of seconds is nothing to downplay.

[zataz]

And RDM would be in the exact same spot its in right now, solo or gtfo.

and whats wrong with that?

[Calatilla]

and whats wrong with that?

If you like your job to be useless except for soloing slower than 99% of all other jobs in the game then who am I to argue with you. But asking for changes that won't improve the job and get it back into endgame is just silly.

RDM's spell list is full of useful "self cast only" spells, but that's the problem, its self cast only, Temper would have been good if it could be cast on others. SE seems to think that RDM is an enhancer, but the only job it's enhancing is itself. I'm not gonna go out and say that RDM needs to be put back into the cycle mage era that was Lv75 but it does needs an enhancing spell that no other job has that can be cast on others. If not then stop calling it an enhancing job.

Also, enfeebles need to be tierd by skill so that no job that isnt RDM99 can enfeeble as well as a RDM99. They also need to get rid of some of those immunities.

But you're talking to a brick wall in regards to RDM anyway because SE have already proven they don't give a shit.

[Damane]

If you like your job to be useless except for soloing slower than 99% of all other jobs in the game then who am I to argue with you. But asking for changes that won't improve the job and get it back into endgame is just silly.

RDM's spell list is full of useful "self cast only" spells, but that's the problem, its self cast only, Temper would have been good if it could be cast on others. SE seems to think that RDM is an enhancer, but the only job it's enhancing is itself. I'm not gonna go out and say that RDM needs to be put back into the cycle mage era that was Lv75 but it does needs an enhancing spell that no other job has that can be cast on others. If not then stop calling it an enhancing job.

Also, enfeebles need to be tierd by skill so that no job that isnt RDM99 can enfeeble as well as a RDM99. They also need to get rid of some of those immunities.

But you're talking to a brick wall in regards to RDM anyway because SE have already proven they don't give a shit.

I think the problem why SE isnt makeing Enfeeb magic stick so easy/be potent (the same can be said for add. effects of alot of WSs that dont stick to mobs higher then decent challenge) is because they are affraid that the game would become too easy. Back then when you could land practically any debuff you wanted on most HNMs, the fights became really really easy with debuffs on. Now dont get me wrong, I want enfeebs to work and actually stick. Its just that I think that SE themself feels it would make the game to easy. Haveing constantly half of your Arsenal of Spells castrated on important fights vs NMs is dumb, you might ask yourself why add those spells anyway, when you cant lend them on anything worthwile?

[Psxpert2011]

I wanted to try to keep this as simple as possible.

If you want to let the dev know that you do not like these changes, please hit LIKE on this OP. Let's keep this simple and leave all opinion and discussion in other threads (there are plenty on this topic already). This thread is not meant to be a place to voice alternatives, etc. Doing so will just become another end-less display of debate and back and forth and we will lose the main focus, which is that 'This is NOT what we want'.

If you like the changes, please refrain from commenting and just not hit the LIKE button and move on. If you want to debate the changes, please do so in another thread.

Let us show SE that we CAN show them a clear and concise message which is: "NO, the playerbase do not like this at all".


Lol, pretty clear message here... then and up to page 13. XD

[Calatilla]

I think the problem why SE isnt makeing Enfeeb magic stick so easy/be potent (the same can be said for add. effects of alot of WSs that dont stick to mobs higher then decent challenge) is because they are affraid that the game would become too easy. Back then when you could land practically any debuff you wanted on most HNMs, the fights became really really easy with debuffs on. Now dont get me wrong, I want enfeebs to work and actually stick. Its just that I think that SE themself feels it would make the game to easy. Haveing constantly half of your Arsenal of Spells castrated on important fights vs NMs is dumb, you might ask yourself why add those spells anyway, when you cant lend them on anything worthwile?

The problem right now is that if RDM99 can land an enfeeble on a mob then anything/rdm can, and if RDM99 can't land an enfeeble its because of immunities. Point being, why bring a RDM at all if your whm/rdm can enfeeble just as good?

Having the highest enfeebling skill should mean something. It needs to be addressed, just like the cure formula was.

[saevel]

And WAR+Reso absolutely destroys this mob. 20k damage in a matter of seconds is nothing to downplay.

Only if you MS, and that's once per run. We've been slightly altering our strategy as we found that we simply kill too fast after it splits. The typical strategy is to shock it right after split, then shock it again near 25%, yet we kill so fast that it's often at 10% or so when it comes out of squall. So instead after split we're telling our SMN's to wait a few more seconds then shock it so that it lasts throughout the <25% phase.

Got 10 marrows last Sunday but had two wipes due to implosion followed by quad split.

[MarkovChain]

You would have done this strat months ago if you read my videos. You must keep the second SS for the second clone. It's optimal to stun at 30%.

[Demon6324236]

You would have done this strat months ago if you read my videos.One does not read videos, they watch them, and read posts. :P

[Taint2]

You would have done this strat months ago if you read my videos. You must keep the second SS for the second clone. It's optimal to stun at 30%.


Completely agree nothing is more important then Squalling the final 20%. After the split there is no such thing as killing too fast. You can live through implosion + 4 ADLs with some luck but you'll want to get to the point as fast as possible.

[MarkovChain]

One does not read videos, they watch them, and read posts. :P

a video is a file.

[Toren]

I firmly believe that Embrava and Alexander SHOULD NOT BE NERFED.

This will only serve to make the player base furious and make even more of the remaining players quit

Think back to the Absolute Virtue change after people started zerging him with Krakens and Blood Weapon. It did not change anything people just stopped fighting him for however many years until the cap was increased because they couldn't win until he was zergable again. Not to mention by the time he was killable again most items he dropped were no longer anything overwhelmingly special.

If this update is pushed through it will just mean players who love SCH and SMN will be blacklisted from playing them to even more events than they already are now

I really enjoy the FFXI development team they have brought us many good years of content and a amazing game to play. I however, do not want them to ignore the player base about this matter.

[Arcon]

Think back to the Absolute Virtue change after people started zerging him with Krakens and Blood Weapon. It did not change anything people just stopped fighting him for however many years until the cap was increased because they couldn't win until he was zergable again. Not to mention by the time he was killable again most items he dropped were no longer anything overwhelmingly special.

The problem there was not the KC nerf but AV being irrationally tough. It's the same here. PD and Embrava should definitely be nerfed, but not before the content is adjusted accordingly.

[Zheta]

All I see is: "Prefect."