Please resolve the problem where items might be lost upon forced zoning

[Mirage]

Hello developers and community representatives.

I would like to bring to your attention the issue where if an item drops very close to the time-out in a zone, you might lose an item before everyone in your party manages to pass/lot the item in question.

As I have understood things, some (but not all) of the most recently implemented time-limited battlefields have a workaround for this in effect, by giving you a 5 minute time extention after the last boss/objective has been completed, giving you enough time to lot/pass items.

However, in some areas, such as dynamis where everyone enters at a slightly different time, the other players might not know exactly how many seconds you have left and be unable to pass fast enough. Likewise, if you kill a mob while solo with just 2-3 seconds left on the clock, and it drops 4 pieces of currency and 1 piece of gear, you might lose two of those too if you have just three free slots in your active inventory.

My suggestion is that instead of automatically kicking people out of these time limited areas, they should be transported to an empty area in the same zone, where there would be a portal to exit the zone, but nothing else. This way, the player could stay there for a minute or so, giving the other players enough time to pass their loot before you exited the area. Alternatively, the character in question could be "locked" for 30-60 seconds after their time ran out, being unable to move, attack or get attacked, but able to lot/pass items.

Ideally, there should never be any cases where items that are dropped within the time limit are lost due to getting kicked out before everyone has managed to lot/pass items. This is an issue which has been around for a long time, but also something that has never been a problem in other, similarly time limited fights. BCNM fights, for example, leave you with infinite time to lot/pass and organize your inventory after the time-limited battle is over. I think all time limited content should function similar to this.

[Kristal]

However, in some areas, such as dynamis where everyone enters at a slightly different time, the other players might not know exactly how many seconds you have left and be unable to pass fast enough. Likewise, if you kill a mob while solo with just 2-3 seconds left on the clock, and it drops 4 pieces of currency and 1 piece of gear, you might lose two of those too if you have just three free slots in your active inventory.

That's not a problem of dynamis, that's YOUR problem. You get dozens of warnings that your time is about to expire. If you attack a mob in the last 30 seconds without keeping enough inventory room, too bad for you.

I've personally been on 6-man salvage runs where we killed the boss with 10 sec to spare, 3 man dead, and we still got the loot. That is a scenario where a 5 min grace period is valid, so you can actually raise people to lot on stuff, rather then have them homepoint to clear the slots.

[Mirage]

Yes, that is a problem of dynamis. If it wasn't, you could say the exact same about content like salvage. Let me show you:

Not getting the loot you want from a 6 man salvage run where you killed the boss with just seconds left on the timer is entirely your own faults. You knew exactly how much time you were given in salvage, and if you wanted your items, you should have completed it 2 minutes faster, and/or without anyone dying. You should not get a 5 minute grace period, because you can just kill faster instead.

Being given a grace period in dynamis is exactly as valid a request as being given a grace period on salvage and/or NNI.

Making lotting/passing speed a part of the event's difficulty is ridiculous, that's all.

[hiko]

I've personally been on 6-man salvage runs where we killed the boss with 10 sec to spare, 3 man dead, and we still got the loot. That is a scenario where a 5 min grace period is valid, so you can actually raise people to lot on stuff, rather then have them homepoint to clear the slots.

how did you do if the people who needed the loot were the dead people?

[Mirage]

Obviously, they shouldn't have died in the first place if they wanted items. Part of the difficulty, man!

[Kristal]

Yes, that is a problem of dynamis. If it wasn't, you could say the exact same about content like salvage. Let me show you:

<bogus crap snipped>

Being given a grace period in dynamis is exactly as valid a request as being given a grace period on salvage and/or NNI.

Making lotting/passing speed a part of the event's difficulty is ridiculous, that's all.

Dynamis has a 60 minute grace period and you STILL manage to f*** it up? YOUR problem when you decide to use your grace period to kill some more and can't quite cut it.
Salvage has a hard time limit, and is notorious for throwing a wrench in the best laid plans. And losing out on a rare piece of 25 armor is no comparison for losing a 10k piece of currency because you CHOSE to wring the last drop of blood and couldn't kill it fast enough or stupidly ignored the limits of your inventory.




how did you do if the people who needed the loot were the dead people?
Someone would get it that didn't have it yet. Better to give it to someone that noone.

[Mirage]

I honestly think people should just lose items that drops from their monsters.
Got it. If that's what you really think, there's nothing more to talk about. You just have a fundamentally different idea of how drops should work than I do.

I am of the opinion that killing the monsters and clearing the event is what should matter for drops, you are of the opinion that camping the "treasure" list and frantically pressing pass/lot as fast as you can is an important (and fun!) part of the event's reward system.

[Kristal]

Got it. If that's what you really think, there's nothing more to talk about. You just have a fundamentally different idea of how drops should work than I do.

I am of the opinion that killing the monsters and clearing the event is what should matter for drops, you are of the opinion that camping the "treasure" list and frantically pressing pass/lot as fast as you can is an important (and fun!) part of the event's reward system.

You lose the argument so you resort to strawman attacks?

Here's my real view on this:

If you chose to engage a trash mob in the last 30 seconds of a 120 minute session of killing hundreds of mooks, there is a calculated chance you might not kill the mook in time to obtain all it's loot.

Salvage SHOULD have a grace period, it is a dedicated event to kill a particular boss, and l33t lotting skills should NOT be part of the required skill set for this event.

[Demon6324236]

I am of the opinion that killing the monsters and clearing the event is what should matter for dropsI have been thinking this since the start! Just felt that it was kinda obvious, sadly it seems not.

Edit:
Here's my real view on thisReally? Cause from where I'm sitting it seems as though your saying just because I kill something in the last few seconds means I should just get screwed out of my drops. Imo once you kill it, you deserve the drops, end of story, if something prevents you from that, there is a problem.

[Kristal]

Edit:Really? Cause from where I'm sitting it seems as though your saying just because I kill something in the last few seconds means I should just get screwed out of my drops. Imo once you kill it, you deserve the drops, end of story, if something prevents you from that, there is a problem.

Yeah.. but that problem is generally you. If you keep enough room in your inventory, that last second killing will result in loot. Wether that loot goes to you or someone else who entered dynamis 10 seconds later if irrelevant.

The problem with such a grace period on trash mobs is that it doesn't solve anything. Even if you were prevented from attacking or being attacked (which invalidates lot rights anyway), your party members can still generate more loot. Do you expect to get another 5 minute grace for that too? If you timeout before the mob dies, do you still expect to be able to lot on it's loot while in Jeuno?

And what about regular mobs? Should escape, warp and zoning be disabled for an entire alliance for 5 minutes just because you punched a rabbit in valkurm waiting to enter dynamis? NeoDynamis is a regular zone with funny occupancy rules, and if you cannot be bothered with paying heed to that, you pay the price. (Or rather, don't get the prize.)

[Mirage]

You lose the argument so you resort to strawman attacks?

Here's my real view on this:

Yeah, exactly, so why should leet lotting skills be part of one event, but not another?

My opinion is that it should not be part of any event, and this is where you obviously disagree.
And no, the game could make you auto-pass everything that was dropped after your time ran out, while still letting you lot on the things that dropped before your time ran out.

On a side note, I also think full inventory, but non-full stacks of an item shouldn't prevent you from getting an item either. If you're 80/80, have 6 items of some sort and another one drops, you should be able to get this item directly into your existing stack, without having to drop one item first to make place for it, then let it sort into a stack. I consider the existing functionality to be more like a bug than anything else.

[Demon6324236]

Yeah.. but that problem is generally you. If you keep enough room in your inventory, that last second killing will result in loot. Wether that loot goes to you or someone else who entered dynamis 10 seconds later if irrelevant.Well admittedly I go in 20 seconds after others, do totals & splits at the end of Dyna runs. But to be honest as my RDM I have carry 72 or so pieces of gear, and I do Dyna as RDM/DNC. So when you take into account that I am also taking a reraise scroll, my reraise earring, & a warp scroll I have 75 items, so I have enough room for 1 of each currency, the forgotten that drops in the area, and then everything else slowly slips into my inventory as it auto-sorts my items.

[Kristal]

Yeah, exactly, so why should leet lotting skills be part of one event, but not another?

No leet lotting is required in dynamis. If you really push a mob kill to the last few seconds, then you don't risk losing drops, you attempt to GAIN just a few more.

If you don't kill fast enough while soloing in abyssea, you risk chests despawning on you. I reckon you want those to remain indefinitely as well?


My opinion is that it should not be part of any event, and this is where you obviously disagree.
It's not a part of dynamis. You are given ample time to prepare for the kickout, with a choice as to how close you want to cut it.


And no, the game could make you auto-pass everything that was dropped after your time ran out, while still letting you lot on the things that dropped before your time ran out.
Which is automatically accomplished by kicking you out of the zone. The only low-cost workable alternative I can see is to auto-distribute loot when anyone changes zone/disconnects with loot in treasure, but that screams exploit and drama.


On a side note, I also think full inventory, but non-full stacks of an item shouldn't prevent you from getting an item either. If you're 80/80, have 6 items of some sort and another one drops, you should be able to get this item directly into your existing stack, without having to drop one item first to make place for it, then let it sort into a stack. I consider the existing functionality to be more like a bug than anything else.

It's not a bug, simply a side-effect of how the system works. But I agree that stackable item drops should auto-stack even when inventory is full.

[Mirage]

No leet lotting is required in dynamis. If you really push a mob kill to the last few seconds, then you don't risk losing drops, you attempt to GAIN just a few more.

If you don't kill fast enough while soloing in abyssea, you risk chests despawning on you. I reckon you want those to remain indefinitely as well?


You attempt to gain a few more, and the kill happens within the time limit. Therefore, you should be given time to acquire the drops, no matter how little time there is left.

Abyssea is not a good example and here is why: You can open chests with a macro during combat, and the vast majority of chests do not require manual inspection to obtain whatever was inside them. Furthermore, if you are cleaving for gold chests, it is easy to land the finishing blow in an area without repops and aggro, leaving you with plenty of time to open all gold chests before they depop without getting event skipped.

Even if you can't kill them in time while cleaving (unlikely), unless you are on blu, you probably have someone to heal/buff you, and they can most likely pop the chests and pool the items, or sleep the mobs left on you to let you do it. If you're cleaving on blu and for some insane reason can't manage to kill fast enough, you have access to aoe sleep spells yourself.

On a side note, yes, I think chests are sub-ideal to work with. The time it takes just to check each chest is undesirable, and I would prefer it if all chest drops automatically entered the lot pool, including augmented items. I also think it should be able to distinguish a KI chest from a Temp Item chest just by looking at it, without having to manually check it.

In addition to that, killing slower to be able to keep up with chests is not a big issue in abyssea because you are not restricted to 2 hours each day, as you are in dynamis. Furthermore, if you get help with chest popping in abyssea, this increases the ease of popping all good chests, while more people to help you in dynamis just increases the risk of one single player not managing to pass the right item in time for your forced ejection, as none of the other players know exactly how many seconds is left on your clock, just roughly.



It's not a part of dynamis. You are given ample time to prepare for the kickout, with a choice as to how close you want to cut it.


You are given ample time to prepare for the kickout in all other timed events too. Just complete the objectives faster and stop complaining about losing drops when the boss dies at 5 seconds remaining. The "choice" in dynamis is a choice between "trying to get as many drops as possible within 2 hours" or "not trying to get as many drops as possible within 2 hours". When a time limit of 2 hours is set, why should post-kill lotting steal time out of this time limit? I don't know, and I haven't seen a good reason for why it should yet.



Which is automatically accomplished by kicking you out of the zone. The only low-cost workable alternative I can see is to auto-distribute loot when anyone changes zone/disconnects with loot in treasure, but that screams exploit and drama.


No, what I said is not accomplished by automatically kicking you out of the zone. What I said was "auto-pass items dropped past-timelimit, while not passing items dropped within the time limit." Automatically kicking you out makes you automatically pass all items, not just the ones dropped after you time out.

I'm not sure how you are able to know which sort of solutions would be easy or hard for SE to implement. The server knows when your time is up, and it knows when items are dropped. It doesn't sound like it would hard for the server to determine which items would be automatically passed, and which would not. This could be hard to do, but there is no way you or I would know if it is. That's why I'm bringing up the issue, and asking them to resolve it. If it is too complicated to do, I guess it can't be helped, but at least they might actually check how easy it is to solve it if they are reminded of the issue.



It's not a bug, simply a side-effect of how the system works. But I agree that stackable item drops should auto-stack even when inventory is full.

It is a negative side effect of how the system works, and is not desired functionality by anyone (I think, anyway) who plays the game. Coding-wise it might not be a bug, but it certainly is close to that from the end-user's point of view. That's why i said "more like a bug than anything else", not "it is definitely a bug by any definition of the word, period".

[Kristal]

You are given ample time to prepare for the kickout in all other timed events too. Just complete the objectives faster and stop complaining about losing drops when the boss dies at 5 seconds remaining. The "choice" in dynamis is a choice between "trying to get as many drops as possible within 2 hours" or "not trying to get as many drops as possible within 2 hours". When a time limit of 2 hours is set, why should post-kill lotting steal time out of this time limit? I don't know, and I haven't seen a good reason for why it should yet.

Stop talking nonsense already.
You are comparing a 100 minute boss with a 1 minute trash mob. A single chance at loot with 150/151 chances of loot. An 6~18-man alliance progression through a mission zone with a solo encounter in an open zone.

Yes, I get it. You're a greedy biatch that demands that SE adjusts the game because every last second not earning loot is a second of your life lost. Get over it. Don't fight magic proc mobs in the last 30 seconds and expect to proc it 10 minutes later because you have the 'right' to the loot.

Since you just keep posting the same flawed arguments over and over, and I'm apparently only here to bump this thread, it ends here. See you in the next discussion.

[Mirage]

I'm requesting, not demanding. I'm not retarded enough to expect them to solve the issue if it takes 500 man hours to do it.

I guess calling people greedy bitches when they ask for an issue to be resolved is a pretty clear indication that you have no good arguments, so yeah, I think it's best of you stop posting, like you suggested yourself.

It's also kind of funny how you accuse me of talking nonsense when you just moments later come with attempts to ridicule me by insinuating that I attempt to magic proc during the last 30 seconds. In reality though, it is fully possible that I wasn't in dynamis just for coin drops, but was also hoping for a -1 body piece to save some money upgrading from +1 to +2 instead of NQ to +2. Why shouldn't I be allowed to get such a piece just because it drops close to the deadline?

[Razielrinz]

You're a greedy biatch that demands that SE adjusts the game because every last second not earning loot is a second of your life lost.
.
Wow, just wow. Looks like the grown ups are still on here. Personally I like this idea even though it never applies to me and my partner. I go in with 40 slots open and Quartermaster it to me. After the event we split it up and use it. I doubt SE even listens to anything on this forum (I mean come on its in ENGLISH and we all know what they think of us) but it would be nice.