Adjustments to Embrava and Perfect Defense

[Tennotsukai]

http://www.ffxiah.com/images/polnews/9434.jpg
I absolutely love how the SCH is still casting Embrava on the SAM... Psh! Like if a SAM even cares for Embrava anymore... Go go Refresh effect!

haste is still good...

[saevel]

We didn't use Embrava for the regain effect, though it was really nice. We used it for the massive Haste boost coupled with high HP regen. Made it so you could easily cap magic haste out while ensuring you DD's kept alive (provided they weren't one shoted).

[Llana_Virren]

We didn't use Embrava for the regain effect, though it was really nice. We used it for the massive Haste boost coupled with high HP regen. Made it so you could easily cap magic haste out while ensuring you DD's kept alive (provided they weren't one shoted).

I'm an advocator of dropping the Regen effect in exchange for keeping regain. It's more attuned to the actual spell.

[Kristal]

I'm an advocator of dropping the Regen effect in exchange for keeping regain. It's more attuned to the actual spell.

I'm in favor of giving RDM the Regain spell, and make RDM SP2 turn all enfeebling and enhancing magic into aoe.
That way, RDM actually stands a chance of being invited for events again, and melee get their precious Regain.

[Zagen]

haste is still good...
If the regen is irrelevant a decent BRD does the same Haste, a good brd does nearly capped magical haste, a great brd does capped magical haste every 3 minutes.

[Ezikiel]

http://www.ffxiah.com/images/polnews/9434.jpg
I absolutely love how the SCH is still casting Embrava on the SAM... Psh! Like if a SAM even cares for Embrava anymore... Go go Refresh effect!


SAM might have blm sub for blaze spikes and bio 2 spam :)

[Mindi]

Embrava gets like a double slap.. duration+effect cut down...
devs should nerf effect like they planed (regain>refresh, Haste down to 25%) but keep the duration like it currently is. Or other way around, but not both!

The reason Embrava was this powerfull its cause of its long duration+powerfull buffs, so if you reduce the buffs, should atleast keep duration so it remains a usefull special ability. The current plans make it worthless.

[Camate]

Greetings!

As there has been a large amount of feedback and requests to make direct adjustments to end-game content, and there is also a concern that making changes to Powder Boots before seeing the results of content adjustments could cause separate issues to arise, the development team has decided that they will not be making adjustments to Powder Boots to enable all jobs to equip them in the next version update.

With that said, we will first be making adjustments to content, and based on what we see from that we will look into whether more content adjustments are needed, if Powder Boots should be changed after all, or if jobs need to be addressed.

[Zirael]

Greetings!

As there has been a large amount of feedback and requests to make direct adjustments to end-game content, and there is also a concern that making changes to Powder Boots before seeing the results of content adjustments could cause separate issues to arise, the development team has decided that they will not be making adjustments to Powder Boots to enable all jobs to equip them in the next version update.

With that said, we will first be making adjustments to content, and based on what we see from that we will look into whether more content adjustments are needed, if Powder Boots should be changed after all, or if jobs need to be addressed.
Translation: We will nerf Embrava and have a look how badly you fail getting to 5x F80, in case we've made it too easy for you.
Personally I considered Powder Boots change a very sensible thing to do; it honestly surprised me a lot that the devs offered to do it. It's disheartening to see the middle finger approach to come back :(
I did plenty of old Nyzul back in the days especially in shouts. Sometimes you wiped, sometimes double Askar dropped and you tried again next day.
Now when you help out in random Nyzul shout and see normal people (normal players, not the Dragon's Aery sort) resorting to fleehack and change lamp numbers to stand a chance of winning, you know there is something very terribly wrong with this event. Please don't tell me it's only the player's fault.

[Nebo]

I was hopeful for the direction of ffxi with a new director. After all this recent dev feedback...I am no longer hopeful.

[Vold]

I was hopeful for the direction of ffxi with a new director. After all this recent dev feedback...I am no longer hopeful.Yeah I was sort of fearful that in Japan it might be considered respectful to a former "successful" leader to stay close to his design after you replace him. I might have been right.

[ManaKing]

I like everything they are doing. Their pace isn't ideal, but I'm sure neither is their staffing. Letting everyone finish Neo because they made it too easy for a patch, only hurts people that weren't there at the time. Then what do you do about all the 'hard earned' gear that acquired too easily. I'd rather it be too hard than not hard enough, this game isn't exactly difficult. They are tweaking, and honestly, I'd rather see continual progress that takes a little too long than not enough time. People are going to complain, regardless.

[Dreamin]

Greetings!

As there has been a large amount of feedback and requests to make direct adjustments to end-game content, and there is also a concern that making changes to Powder Boots before seeing the results of content adjustments could cause separate issues to arise, the development team has decided that they will not be making adjustments to Powder Boots to enable all jobs to equip them in the next version update.

With that said, we will first be making adjustments to content, and based on what we see from that we will look into whether more content adjustments are needed, if Powder Boots should be changed after all, or if jobs need to be addressed.

I absolutely failed to see how adding every job to Powder Boots would do anything bad at all. And your crafters would love you for it. And at least here on the English forum (and specifially this thread), I do not see ANYONE even is against adding every job to the boots at all. So is this another one of those things where the JP community doesn't wants is so we're now not going to get it?

I know that you dont know the answer but really what is the rationale behind this change of heart from the dev?

[Byrth]

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that everyone everywhere would like to see this change happen. They probably aren't doing it because they don't want every job to have access to near-permanent Flee in case it can be abused in the future.

[Camiie]

With that said, we will first be making adjustments to content, and based on what we see from that we will look into whether more content adjustments are needed, if Powder Boots should be changed after all, or if jobs need to be addressed.

I think this is good if it means they're going to look into why we feel we need Powder Boots (or illegal alternatives) for Nyzul Uncharted in the first place. Adjusting Powder Boots would just be a band-aid where extensive surgery is needed.

[Cahlum]

27 pages of feedback and yet they still don't get it. We need the monsters ability to one shot everyone removed. I am all in favour of an embrava and pd nerf but only if EVERY piece of content is adjusted properly and accordingly.

Sadly SMN really has nothing left for it anymore.

[saevel]

27 pages of feedback and yet they still don't get it. We need the monsters ability to one shot everyone removed. I am all in favour of an embrava and pd nerf but only if EVERY piece of content is adjusted properly and accordingly.

Sadly SMN really has nothing left for it anymore.

I've stated it several times already, monsters offensive power has grown in disproportion to our defensive power since level 50. We were able to keep up for awhile, but since 80+ we simply don't have enough HP to soak up their damage.

As for SMN, SMN still has many viable options, only Abyssea leveled mules were PD onry. SMN has shock squall, various support options, the ability to dish out hate-free damage from a distance and the ability to semi-tank things (really holding stuff). To do all that stuff the player really needs good gear sets and capped skill.

[Camiie]

I've stated it several times already, monsters offensive power has grown in disproportion to our defensive power since level 50. We were able to keep up for awhile, but since 80+ we simply don't have enough HP to soak up their damage.

It's almost as though they think we always have Abyssea levels of HP. Either that or they want 9 fights out of 10 to end in an unavoidable wipe. Neither would surprise me.

[Luvbunny]

It's almost as though they think we always have Abyssea levels of HP. Either that or they want 9 fights out of 10 to end in an unavoidable wipe. Neither would surprise me.

We also do not have any sort of buffs on these wide scaled events like Legion and ADL. No atmacite or boons. And yes, 27 pages, still DO NOT get it, still did not do what we asked them to. At least meeble burrow is somewhat decent, good activities for casual. But overall, big disappointment indeed.

[Zamms]

It's almost as though they think we always have Abyssea levels of HP. Either that or they want 9 fights out of 10 to end in an unavoidable wipe. Neither would surprise me.

In my opinion to this HP issue, I have always said when we meritted hp or mp it should be 1st merit = 10 2nd 20 3rd 30 4th 40 etc.. then at say cap you have well over an additional 1k hp and since Legion has a few monsters that do 200-1200 damage on a hit this lets you live a little longer to get a cure on you.

[Raksha]

They would just make monsters that do 400-2400 damage per hit.

[Byrth]

They would just make monsters that do 400-2400 damage per hit.

Legion monsters already do this ;_;

[Luvbunny]

Next time you guys found strategy that works well, please do not bother sharing it on the official forum. When it works too well, they will nerf it. Whenever things are working as intended from player's side, this translate very bad for developers since this means their contents will be consumed fast - and the fact that consumer are happy and satisfied is irrelevant here.

[Camate]

Greetings,

Ever since the announcement about the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava, there have been a lot of comments and feedback regarding content difficulty. Including comments from many of you that feel like the development team is creating content that they don't want you to beat.

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

When it comes to content like Legion and Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey floor 100, they were designed to be difficult without very good gear and a high skill level. As a result, those players who do not meet a certain level will have trouble clearing this content; however, that is the context of their difficulty. The development team believes that the rewards obtainable from such difficult content should only be available to a portion of players. (Based on the stats, not everyone will be able to possess it.)

It would be hard to call it very difficult content if just anyone was able to beat it.
(Frankly, the Hall of Mul is extremely, extremely difficult. However, we saw one group of players who went all out and challenge it and we were all relieved.)

With that said, we will not be lowering the difficulty because there are people who feel that the battle is too difficult. Instead, we would like players to collect better gear from slightly easier content, work out a battle strategies, and rise to the challenge.

Of course, because of this, there will be a need to help players gradually strengthen themselves and have a wide selection of moderate content to choose from, so we would like to do our best to fill that need.

Whether or not something is difficult varies from person to person, and this is where a lot of discrepancies arise, but when creating content we need to draw a line somewhere and balance things. We would like you all to be somewhat aware of where the lines have been drawn for highly difficult content.

*In the future, we will look into revamping the difficulty of older content when higher-tier content is added.

[tyrantsyn]

Greetings,

Ever since the announcement about the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava, there have been a lot of comments and feedback regarding content difficulty. Including comments from many of you that feel like the development team is creating content that they don't want you to beat.

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

When it comes to content like Legion and Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey floor 100, they were designed to be difficult without very good gear and a high skill level. As a result, those players who do not meet a certain level will have trouble clearing this content; however, that is the context of their difficulty. The development team believes that the rewards obtainable from such difficult content should only be available to a portion of players. (Based on the stats, not everyone will be able to possess it.)

It would be hard to call it very difficult content if just anyone was able to beat it.
(Frankly, the Hall of Mul is extremely, extremely difficult. However, we saw one group of players who went all out and challenge it and we were all relieved.)

With that said, we will not be lowering the difficulty because there are people who feel that the battle is too difficult. Instead, we would like players to collect better gear from slightly easier content, work out a battle strategies, and rise to the challenge.

Of course, because of this, there will be a need to help players gradually strengthen themselves and have a wide selection of moderate content to choose from, so we would like to do our best to fill that need.

Whether or not something is difficult varies from person to person, and this is where a lot of discrepancies arise, but when creating content we need to draw a line somewhere and balance things. We would like you all to be somewhat aware of where the lines have been drawn for highly difficult content.

*In the future, we will look into revamping the difficulty of older content when higher-tier content is added.


All I can say is "LMFAO"

I'm sure that's a translate typo

[Zagen]

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

Might want to recheck the translations there...

[tyrantsyn]

Lol why that seems perfect to me.

[Kincard]

Actually, his translation is pretty accurate to the original JP post. I'm sure Camate is feeling just as bamboozled needing to translate it as we are needing to read it.

In context, it was more of a "We think it's okay if we make content that can't be beaten [by you]." The original post was made in response to someone.

[Kitkat]

I find this all funny...cause for 3 years they made content that made players break off into small 2-4 man groups and now expect you to rely on 6~18 well geared strategist. Positively hilarious...

[Zagen]

Actually, his translation is pretty accurate to the original JP post. I'm sure Camate is feeling just as bamboozled needing to translate it as we are needing to read it.

In context, it was more of a "We think it's okay if we make content that can't be beaten [by you]." The original post was made in response to someone.
One word is all it takes to completely change the meaning of a statement.

[tyrantsyn]

Actually, his translation is pretty accurate to the original JP post. I'm sure Camate is feeling just as bamboozled needing to translate it as we are needing to read it.

In context, it was more of a "We think it's okay if we make content that can't be beaten [by you]." The original post was made in response to someone.
I saw the other translation. And understand what was actually meant. Still funny tho.

[Leif]

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

Only if taking a loss to said content is required to initiate a cutscene or other story event.

In any other case it should not be accepted.

[Hashmalum]

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.I think this has been obvious ever since Absolute Virtue, but the question is: why? Why is the dev team wasting time creating content they think is impossible when they are already overworked and players are already fed up? In what world is this a sane use of resources?

[MarkovChain]

When it comes to content like Legion and Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey floor 100, they were designed to be difficult without very good gear and a high skill level. As a result, those players who do not meet a certain level will have trouble clearing this content; however, that is the context of their difficulty. The development team believes that the rewards obtainable from such difficult content should only be available to a portion of players. (Based on the stats, not everyone will be able to possess it.)

It would be hard to call it very difficult content if just anyone was able to beat it.
(Frankly, the Hall of Mul is extremely, extremely difficult. However, we saw one group of players who went all out and challenge it and we were all relieved.)

With that said, we will not be lowering the difficulty because there are people who feel that the battle is too difficult. Instead, we would like players to collect better gear from slightly easier content, work out a battle strategies, and rise to the challenge.

Of course, because of this, there will be a need to help players gradually strengthen themselves and have a wide selection of moderate content to choose from, so we would like to do our best to fill that need.

Whether or not something is difficult varies from person to person, and this is where a lot of discrepancies arise, but when creating content we need to draw a line somewhere and balance things. We would like you all to be somewhat aware of where the lines have been drawn for highly difficult content.

*In the future, we will look into revamping the difficulty of older content when higher-tier content is added.

Yeah ok we got, the devs are clueless, and if we all complained about nyzul that because we are all gimp haha. No word on the recent nerf of the DAT of nyzul lamps ? So I guess pre nerf winners were all super awesome players I guess ? haha. I'm sure you also think very little ppl do legion because it's "omg too hard" and it's elite. No, if you played the game you'd know that nobody does legion because the gear is subpar, and stop explaining us that farming lower tier gear is helping winning legion or nyzul - it's wrong and player can estimate damage/per/second values alot better than you. The only reason people can currently win F100 nyzul is embrava and has nothing to do with gear. Get 4 DD with 2x embrava and full AF3+2 and you are good. It's the same for legion. The entire events relies on stunning, embrava, perfect defense and brd/cor. I mean last I checked you didn't annihilate perfect defense didn't you ?

[Muras]

Greetings,

Ever since the announcement about the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava, there have been a lot of comments and feedback regarding content difficulty. Including comments from many of you that feel like the development team is creating content that they don't want you to beat.

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

A friend of mine who's fluent in both languages tells me the original JP post said they believe it's ok to make content that isn't beatable 100% of the time (Which would include luck based content). So while not completely accurate and a little better than the official translation, it's still just as bad since hardly anyone wants luck based content as shown back in the Matsui "Tell us what you want" thread.


When it comes to content like Legion and Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey floor 100, they were designed to be difficult without very good gear and a high skill level. As a result, those players who do not meet a certain level will have trouble clearing this content; however, that is the context of their difficulty. The development team believes that the rewards obtainable from such difficult content should only be available to a portion of players. (Based on the stats, not everyone will be able to possess it.)

Don't really agree with this design method. I think everyone should be able to obtain everything they want, just at different paces. Nothing should ever be out of reach of any player. Do you guys seriously like limiting your player base or something? Don't you, as a company, like profit and money? I have to ask, who exactly are you designing this content for? 51% or more of the player base can't possibly care THAT much about "prestige" when it comes to items...


It would be hard to call it very difficult content if just anyone was able to beat it.
(Frankly, the Hall of Mul is extremely, extremely difficult. However, we saw one group of players who went all out and challenge it and we were all relieved.)

It would also be hard to call it fun if almost nobody can beat it. I don't really care if some small group of people beat some difficult content. I don't care if they got nice gear or not. All I care about as a player is having something fun to do, and I'm not getting anything.

Did you remember to ask those players who beat that difficult content, if they actually had fun while doing it? Because I imagine most would be expressing feelings of frustration and annoyance. I'm sure a few might say they had fun, but I'd be pretty surprised if most/all said they did.


With that said, we will not be lowering the difficulty because there are people who feel that the battle is too difficult. Instead, we would like players to collect better gear from slightly easier content, work out a battle strategies, and rise to the challenge.

Only if I get to have fun in the process.


Of course, because of this, there will be a need to help players gradually strengthen themselves and have a wide selection of moderate content to choose from, so we would like to do our best to fill that need.

So, does this mean more content that isn't luck based and doesn't require a small army to complete? If so, then good, that's fine. But with the overall tone of this post, I'm worried the rewards will be awful from such content too...


Whether or not something is difficult varies from person to person, and this is where a lot of discrepancies arise, but when creating content we need to draw a line somewhere and balance things. We would like you all to be somewhat aware of where the lines have been drawn for highly difficult content.

I know it can be difficult to gather information from forums since only the displeased people ever speak up. This always makes it seem like people are never happy, and you can never be sure which party is the majority.

So here, let me help you with this. Hold regular surveys that ask your players whether they like the content or not, like they did with FF14. Surveys that we can answer to only once through our Square-Enix accounts with simple questions like "Do you like Legion?" and "Do you like the difficulty of Legion?". Then release the results so your players also know how everyone else feels. Then when everyone is on the same page we can help each other make a better game. This is game design, not rocket science. We're all aiming for a better game, not Mars.


*In the future, we will look into revamping the difficulty of older content when higher-tier content is added.

You guys are seriously just adding more work for yourselves with this kind of policy. Just... Do it right the first time so you can focus on more important things rather than perpetually altering content forever.

At the end of the day though, from what the developers say and what I want seem to be conflicting. It's becoming more and more apparent that this game is not for me and honestly most sane people on this earth. I think Square-Enix is heavily banking on the possibility everyone is hopelessly addicted to the game therefore it doesn't matter what they do. Fortunately I am not, so if I leave I will be gone. I don't think I'm alone on this either.

My real question is what does it take to get you to stop making terrible design decisions? Will 90% of players really have to quit before we see any real results? Did you learn absolutely nothing from the failure of FF14? I don't care if you guys have been making games for 20 years or more, sometimes designs and ideas become outdated and previous accomplishments become meaningless, and sometimes you need to just retire so you can let people who actually know how the modern industry works have a chance. 20 year old game designs and business practices just don't work anymore... You'd think that SE would've figured this out over these past 2 years with the mess of FF14 among other things.

I may be saying harsh things, but I'm not trying to be insulting either. All I'm saying is what I feel is the truth, and of course, my own personal opinion. The only thing I can truly pass on as fact is that my relationship with FF11 is soon coming to a close...

[Monchat]

Now its clear.

How the DEV think we should play:

1-get basic gear from abbysea--> VW

2-once you have good gear you start working on the most recent contents (Nyzul) and since you got your gears you beat it.

3- do Legion and since you got good gear you win it.



Problem: there is no intermediate content. Abbyseea gear is still some of the best and very easy.

Nyzul gear is sidegrades to abbyssea and impossible.

Legion is impossible and side grades.

VW is sidegrades and easy.

What players actually do:

1. get your abbyssea gear.

2. do nyzul and pray. Gear has nothing to do with winning. Abbyssea gear is more than enough.

4. people wont try legion cause the gear is garbage compared to nyzul.

Lol.

Basically right now content is all or nothing: easy and good gear (abbyssea) or mediocre/moderately good and impossible (nyzul, legion).

The worse part is they shamlessly affirm that they tink having impossible content is ok. AV etc.

[Fynlar]

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

Most of us already guessed that I'm sure, based on things like Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden pre-nerf.

But to actually hear it straight from the horse's mouth is still mindblowing in a way. Like, this is what some people actually believe. Wow

[Riggs]

that statement is a massive throw back to pre abyssea level 75 stuff, i'm just not sure i have the energy for that anymore and i know i def don't have 18 people to do content with

[MarkovChain]

I'm sure they think we enjoy doing nyzul, man good thing FFXIV is coming soon. Still no word on salvage, cos at this point that's our only hope. Knowing them they will put bosses on the same scale of legion, with instant kill abilities and requiring PD. Hey gimps suck less and get better gear. Inbefore an idiot pops and asks to farm pdt gear.

[Rubicant82]

So... The Dev team wants us to have a challenge. That is okay, but there is a huge difference between a challenge with adequate awards, and rending jobs useless. By changing the mechanics of the game, sure we will be challenged, but more adversely two jobs are essentially getting their best attributes taken away. I've been playing sense NA release... and this seems to happen every time we as the players find a way to use the mechanics of the game to our advantage. It saddens me greatly that the game has fallen as far as it has. Maybe it is time to get a new dev team, we have a new project manager. At the rate this team is going, unless the new expansion is something that renders everyone speechless, FFXI will fade away. There are plenty of games that one can play that are FREE that have just as good if not better customer support, Devs, and content. One of the huge advantages that FFXI has over all these other games is the history and the fan base it draws on. As several people have mentioned in this thread that the gear from the new content is not worth the risk, they are partially correct. Everyone has their own style of play, but honestly not everyone has the skill to do the events. Does this mean that those players should have to go with out the good gear? What if someone falls in with a lower skill crowd, and can't get in to a higher skill group because those who normally have the higher skills tend to stick together and not include new people. The dev team has basically just given every casual player the middle finger. WAY TO GO TEAM! This sure is how you get people to stick around and pay you money every month. Tell them "well because you don't have the skills you can't do this."

[Karbuncle]

I actually... Kinda agree with them here. They don't want people to just hop out of Abyssea, Skills uncapped in full Perle/Aurore/Teal being able to win all the contents. Its just not logical or reasonable to assume. Its an MMO, with that territory comes the absolute knowledge if your ass wants anything good, You'll need to invest time in it. If you don't like investing time in the game and think you should be able to take on the world in crap-tier gear, You're in the wrong genre. Any good reasonable MMO has a gear check, Its what actually keeps people working for that next tier of gear.

Their only flaw in logic is that well, 99% of Legion armor is crap-tier, so the event is meaningless... And that Luck based content is not okay. Not even a little bit. If you get the best bros ever together and they have the best gear and communication, They should have an extremely high win rate, It should not be 50% Skill/ 50% Roll of the dice in events. Some amount of luck could be interesting, But such a severe amount of luck involved makes it unfun, and any strategy you may have come up with without the luck based factor, just becomes "ZERG ALL THE MOBS". Its simple. The more luck you include, The more Simple the Strategies become, Hence, Zergs on ADL and the Zergs/Rush in NNI.

If you throw in a "F*ck you" Button to a mob, People will adapt the strategy "Kill it before it kills us" because dealing with the luck factor is not worth the planning, Especially when that "F*ck you" button is a 30' Range AoE Death.

Over all, Long story short, I agree with their Idea "Gear Progression Bro, Perle to Emp+2, to Phorcys!", But its kinda like going from Volume 1, Volume 3, Volume 11!!!!(BRRRRZZZT) in that regard, and while I cannot and will not say NNI Gear is "Sidegrade" because its not, Even to the Almighty Master Monk Race... Its true that Empyrean+2 Armor is very solid for most jobs. Even as a THF I still wear my Empyrean+2 Head, and my Hands and Feet still get use. I admit my Body and Legs are floating away due to Thaumus though.

I think that, The content in the future needs to include the same level of Gear checks, But a lot less luck. Content absolutely should not be doable by any group of Perle Beasts, It just shouldn't. You're investing time into an MMO, With that territory, with that Game Type, Comes the fact that there will be gear checks. If you could jump out of Abyssea in your Aurore and tackle all the content, No one would play, because it would be boring, None of the gear you were collectin would have meaning. So we have to accept that Gear Checks will keep us seeking better gear...

But again, Drop the Luck factor entirely, or at least severely reduce Lucks role in the games Future Content. Please. Its not good and we don't want or need it.

[FrankReynolds]

the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

I couldn't formulate a response to this that would not get deleted for profanity etc., so I'll come back later and edit this.

The amount of disrespect that you guys display for your customers is frankly appalling.

[Monchat]

Problem is gear check does not exist. There is no clear gear progression post abbysssea, mostly sidegrade and situatioal gear/ If you compare level 75 cap gear to level 90 cap there was something like 25~50% improvement on gear efficiency. then suddenly crap tier upgrades from 90-99. Abbysea gear is for the most par level 85 cap gear lol and still good, while not the best.

[Gaspee]

When a universal strategy that we have employed to beat high end content is nerfed, it's natural for this type of reaction from the playerbase. Square Enix is essentially blaming us for using Perfect Defense and Embrava for the way it was intended to be used from their inception.

I find this tone from the development team distasteful and disrespectful. The game's population is overwhelmingly casual and older, so being ok with content that cannot be beaten and/or exceedingly difficult is, in my opinion, the wrong direction.

[SpankWustler]

When it comes to content like Legion and Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey floor 100, they were designed to be difficult without very good gear and a high skill level. As a result, those players who do not meet a certain level will have trouble clearing this content; however, that is the context of their difficulty. The development team believes that the rewards obtainable from such difficult content should only be available to a portion of players. (Based on the stats, not everyone will be able to possess it.)

If this is the case, why is so much of the stuff from Legion so useless?

That's not to say there aren't a few great things falling out of the Hall of Mul, but even there, there's also some junk.

[Quetzacoatl]

Meh, Seekers of Adoulin will come out with gear that will be on par with Nyzul Uncharted/Legion gear anyway.

Wait. Waaaait a minute. I'm watching a sharp decrease in subscribers right now. No, I'm serious, it's actually happening. You might want to make some Intermediate content between Abyssea/Voidwatch and Legion/Nyzul Uncharted. ASAP.

and no, Arch-Omega/Ultima & Arch-Odin don't really count as intermediate. <_<

[Istabpeople]

Greetings,


Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

balance

*In the future, we will look into revamping the difficulty of older content when higher-tier content is added.

Anyone else feel the need to Google Translate Camate's Google translation?

[Istabpeople]

Also speaking of things that cannot be accomplished, 110 goldsmithing says 'Hi'

[Zamms]

Greetings,

Ever since the announcement about the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava, there have been a lot of comments and feedback regarding content difficulty. Including comments from many of you that feel like the development team is creating content that they don't want you to beat.

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

When it comes to content like Legion and Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey floor 100, they were designed to be difficult without very good gear and a high skill level. As a result, those players who do not meet a certain level will have trouble clearing this content; however, that is the context of their difficulty. The development team believes that the rewards obtainable from such difficult content should only be available to a portion of players. (Based on the stats, not everyone will be able to possess it.)

It would be hard to call it very difficult content if just anyone was able to beat it.
(Frankly, the Hall of Mul is extremely, extremely difficult. However, we saw one group of players who went all out and challenge it and we were all relieved.)

With that said, we will not be lowering the difficulty because there are people who feel that the battle is too difficult. Instead, we would like players to collect better gear from slightly easier content, work out a battle strategies, and rise to the challenge.

Of course, because of this, there will be a need to help players gradually strengthen themselves and have a wide selection of moderate content to choose from, so we would like to do our best to fill that need.

Whether or not something is difficult varies from person to person, and this is where a lot of discrepancies arise, but when creating content we need to draw a line somewhere and balance things. We would like you all to be somewhat aware of where the lines have been drawn for highly difficult content.

*In the future, we will look into revamping the difficulty of older content when higher-tier content is added.

We have gotten to wave 3 of Botolus rex and Iga lima several times. So far the loot we got was not that good, most of us just get points to sell the items from Legion npc since there really is nothing that game breaking in Legion. In my personal opinion if this is gonna be tough then atleast make it drop items that are actually worth it.

[Phogg]

Hope the devs realize they need to create content faster then the current snails pace if they expect to maintain a base of subscribers beyond the incredibly small cluster of people they are apparently catering end game events too. Like others said, there is no middle ground. It's pretty astounding how well the devs screw up in the eyes of their player base, and so consistently. I mean, why is there such a limit on meebles? Its a 15 minute event ffs, why can you only do it so infrequently? How long do you expect people to do VW and abyssea? A lot of people I know have fully geared upwards of 5-6 jobs by now through that content. People are leveling jobs they dont even want to play just to try Legion and Neo Nyzul because it's so restrictive strategically. Essentially, wtf are people supposed to do otherwise?

And btw, we have 18+ skilled and well geared people showing up for legion every week, and its still a ridiculously unforgiving event. There is a difference between challenging and arbitrarily difficult, and legion and neo nyzul both fall into the latter.

[Nala]

Most of us already guessed that I'm sure, based on things like Absolute Virtue and Pandemonium Warden pre-nerf.

But to actually hear it straight from the horse's mouth is still mindblowing in a way. Like, this is what some people actually believe. Wow

You know impossible to beat mobs exsist in other games, HOWEVER the only point in trying (and possibly succeeding) is purely for bragging rights, that said those types of mobs rarely have good drops, THEY ARE PURELY FOR CHALLENGE making impossible to beat content with rewards is ASININE.

I had been floundering on whether to actually quit quit or just log in every now and then but this really peeved me off, my LOWMAN linkshell has fallen apart due to RL, now i find out that shit is impossible not because of poor design but because of acceptable poor design choices -.- i'm out.

[Zagen]

Simple changes to NNI that would make it take longer to obtain while still giving players a good feeling of progress:

Clear floor 20 = NQ gear
NQ gear and KI from level 40 clear = +1
+1 and KI from level 60 clear = +2
And so on.
I just came up with a legit reason to waste time getting the NQ/+1/+2/+3 versions of NNI gear. Because let's face it people aren't looking at those sets and seeing "if I get those getting higher clears will be easier" because NNI is reliant heavily on luck far more than skill or gear.

Bump the time to 45 minutes or just increase the jump range to something like 5-9 and that heavily reliant on luck factor gets toned down and allows for skill/gear to make a bigger difference.

As to legion if you want it to reward the most hardcore players then maybe if you gave a body like this:

DEF:70 STR+16 Attack+5%
"Mag. Atk."+7 "Store TP"+6 "Dbl. Atk."+3
Increases weapon skill damage
Set: Increases STR, VIT, INT, MND

Instead of this:

DEF:79 HP+50 MP+50 STR+13
VIT+13 Attack+23 Damage taken -7%
Magic Defense Bonus+5~6

You just killed off Phorcys korazin but getting that is easier than clearing Legion so it becomes a stepping stone to epic gear. At that point there might be a large enough desire to spam legion. I mean Huginn haubert isn't even a side-grade for anything.

[OniHavoc]

Instead, we would like players to collect better gear from slightly easier content [/COLOR]

Waste hours getting gear just so we have a chance to waste hours replacing it? What a way to waste time.

[Vivik]

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

We would like you all to be somewhat aware of where the lines have been drawn for highly difficult content.


What is the point in drawing a line if nobody can reach it? Oh yeah...SEs proverbial stick and carrot. Good to know SE is in the business of creating content that nobody can beat and can't implement simple things such as non-augmented relic tickets. Way to focus your energy where it's needed.

Nothing personal against you, Camate but it seems like every dev response we get lately is an excuse on why they can't let their player base have fun and feel the need to make everything so mind-numbingly dull and miserable to complete.

[Karbuncle]

Waste hours getting gear just so we have a chance to waste hours replacing it? What a way to waste time.

What you said by definition is an MMO.

Its what you signed up for. Getting armor you'll eventually replace. Thats how it works in every MMO ever.

Are we in such a delusion state we've gone mad now and actually begin to agree with things like this? Jesus, Next thing you know people with be b*tching that this game has to be played online.

[Afania]

So... The Dev team wants us to have a challenge. That is okay, but there is a huge difference between a challenge with adequate awards, and rending jobs useless. By changing the mechanics of the game, sure we will be challenged, but more adversely two jobs are essentially getting their best attributes taken away. I've been playing sense NA release... and this seems to happen every time we as the players find a way to use the mechanics of the game to our advantage. It saddens me greatly that the game has fallen as far as it has. Maybe it is time to get a new dev team, we have a new project manager. At the rate this team is going, unless the new expansion is something that renders everyone speechless, FFXI will fade away. There are plenty of games that one can play that are FREE that have just as good if not better customer support, Devs, and content. One of the huge advantages that FFXI has over all these other games is the history and the fan base it draws on. As several people have mentioned in this thread that the gear from the new content is not worth the risk, they are partially correct. Everyone has their own style of play, but honestly not everyone has the skill to do the events. Does this mean that those players should have to go with out the good gear? What if someone falls in with a lower skill crowd, and can't get in to a higher skill group because those who normally have the higher skills tend to stick together and not include new people. The dev team has basically just given every casual player the middle finger. WAY TO GO TEAM! This sure is how you get people to stick around and pay you money every month. Tell them "well because you don't have the skills you can't do this."

No, they give every hardcore middle finger, not casual. It's perfectly FINE if you don't have the skill/gear to beat certain content.
Out of ALL the game content atm, only legion is harder content. Every content is for casual and very easy. So if you're casual, you got plenty of content to play with. And I'm against the idea of every content being casual, because once every content is beaten, ppl quit. There should be at least 1 content that's hard.

So why casual so unhappy? You got easy Nyzul, easy dyna, easy limbus, easy meeble, easy abyssea and easy VW. And majority of gears from those event are very good.

Why is it a problem that "lower skilled" player can't get into a "higher skill" group? It's more of fundemental mechanic of human society than game design. Irl ppl group with like minded ppl with similar background, make friends with like minded ppl too. If you're rich and educated, you make friends and work with rich and educated. If you're poor and not well educated, you make friends and work with same group of ppl too. That's just the way it goes, no matter where you are, in game or irl. If you're "lower skill crowd", want to be in "higher skill crowd" group, want them to accept you, then improve skill and become one of them? Or deal with it.

Same goes irl too, ppl like lawer, doctors don't make friends with a 7-11 cashier or street person, if you want to make friends with lawyer/doctor, try to be a lawyer/doctor, or don't make friend with them, simple.

However, the problem with harder content is that the reward isn't as attractive as easy options. If you log on to the game now, 95% of player are doing nyzul for nyzul gear, abyssea for abyssea gears, meeble for meeble gears or just farming dyna for relic. Those content is less effort with better reward. Legion is really for those who've done everything from everywhere else. And the population that really want to do it regularly, is pretty small.

This is sad, really, like a middle finger to none-casual players.

My suggestion is to add some sort of cross server group search function for 18~36 person endgame event like this, or allow ppl to team up cross server. Or just straight add super epic reward in legion to keep ppl around, so ppl don't just quit and left the group when they got Mul clear. Atm there are like 0 incentives for ppl to keep doing Mul after clear depending on your job.

[Rezeak]

I love this debate SE has with it's player base.

Catering to only one type of player divides your player base making the game a little less social and the ones you excluded one step closer to quitting.

Honestly, there really is no harm in making different difficultly mode for different events so that we can all play the small amount of new content you put out each month.

Example...
Easy mode NNI (random 5-15 jump but floor 100 doesn't give KI (so only drops 1-3 random peices))
Easy mode(12 man) Legion (mob lose 50% hp and drops rates are halved)

Really, it isn't that hard and it's a nice way for newer player to get to learn events and eventually get to the more rewarding hard mode and of course the hardcore players still get everything first cause they started on hard mode.

Either way, whatever, if you wanna split content into casual/hardcore i'm sure each player base loves paying $70 for the one peice of content you give because you've decided it's ok to excluded them. /longsigh

as a side note : it was fine to exclude player when SE acully added things like
Campaign at the same time as Fomor kings
New jobs/Missions at the same time as Dyna/Limbus/Salvage
because there was always something to do but now when content comes out lets hope SE decide your the lucky one that it's designed for or you'll have another 3 month+ wait to the next peice.

[Tohihroyu]

Greetings,

Ever since the announcement about the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava, there have been a lot of comments and feedback regarding content difficulty. Including comments from many of you that feel like the development team is creating content that they don't want you to beat.

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

When it comes to content like Legion and Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey floor 100, they were designed to be difficult without very good gear and a high skill level. As a result, those players who do not meet a certain level will have trouble clearing this content; however, that is the context of their difficulty. The development team believes that the rewards obtainable from such difficult content should only be available to a portion of players. (Based on the stats, not everyone will be able to possess it.)

It would be hard to call it very difficult content if just anyone was able to beat it.
(Frankly, the Hall of Mul is extremely, extremely difficult. However, we saw one group of players who went all out and challenge it and we were all relieved.)

With that said, we will not be lowering the difficulty because there are people who feel that the battle is too difficult. Instead, we would like players to collect better gear from slightly easier content, work out a battle strategies, and rise to the challenge.

Of course, because of this, there will be a need to help players gradually strengthen themselves and have a wide selection of moderate content to choose from, so we would like to do our best to fill that need.

Whether or not something is difficult varies from person to person, and this is where a lot of discrepancies arise, but when creating content we need to draw a line somewhere and balance things. We would like you all to be somewhat aware of where the lines have been drawn for highly difficult content.

*In the future, we will look into revamping the difficulty of older content when higher-tier content is added.


Another Lightning rod has arrived.

> "very good gear and a high skill level"
Is part of that "very good gear" third-party programs is part of that "skill" the ability, willingness, and proficiency in using them?

> You are aware it is a difficult event and also aware of how one needs to win.
Meaning get windower use bots or get the fuck out of OUR game, if you wish to play like a pussy you then must learn Japanese move to Japan and play on a ps2 so you don't waste the precious resources of the NA & EU servers.

I also have a couple questions for the Dev's:

1. Is Windower in fact since you seem to not only be aware (hell most posters here blatantly show it off in their signatures! and a good number have entered the MH contest) but allow it now rather then just sweep it under a rug. So does this mean that now is Windower allowed to be used? and with that is it an absolute necessity in order to be "The best with the best gear"? and what about bots? there's even more than there used to be now, RMT FC's...RMT thats another, sure you nerfed the chocobo blinkers which greatly upset many players, but very quickly the RMT FC's came back around with even more gil laundering!

2. What is the concept of "having fun" in this game? from what I seen its content denile, harassment, and making entire topics on your favorite forum dedicated to calling out the "Gimp & wtf" players. To make anyone not the the holier than thou lords and masters quit because they are a waste of resources.

Non-Windower players have no place in Neo-Nyzul -- and it appears Camate is admitting this.

Bring RMT onto the table. Is the entire existence of the STF, then, a farce designed to, as 2.1 does, hold back players with morals and a conscience from any degree of reasoned success in the game?

Hence: Should RMT, on a limited scale, be legal?

It's clearly how some of these players not only advance, but also make a good coin RL, in the game.

It is refreshing to see Camate admit effectively (whether he admits to the admission) what I've believed (and have also believed farcical): That it is acceptable (and I believe it being done) to make content designed to be effectively impossible under the User Agreement.

Now, the question: Is the User Agreement simply an Animal Farm scenario? All are equal, some more equal than others?

Don't worry, I know what the out come of this will be, your buddies at BG will laugh and circle jerk at my "pitiful" attempt to crusade or whatever I guess I gave them some more lulz, right? And some of em may recognize some things I have copypasta'd here too.

I know a ban from here is likely and quite frankly I don't care, I only came here to put my 2 cents in.

Also Camate....do you realize BG is nothing but backstabbing? Though you kissed and patted their butts during the Vanafest they still continue to denounce most things you say that they do not agree with? and no doubt called you a gimp player cause of your gear during those little test server events? along with saying you have no clue how to play the "proper" way?


Want this whole statement in a nutshell? What is a legitimate player? because I forgot it.

So long and good night.

[Mifaco]

Well, its nice to see the bald faced contempt the devs have for their playerbase. Emulating the success of Abyssea? Perish the thought. Lets make new content so difficult people will quit.

[Rezeak]

The development team believes that the rewards obtainable from such difficult content should only be available to a portion of players. (Based on the stats, not everyone will be able to possess it.)

Summary
To the all the people that paid for new content, sorry but it's designed to exclude 80% of our paying customers, but please wait 3 months and hope we include you next time.

Least it's nice for the dev team to come out and say that they will do w/e they please with our money rather than, lie or design content that everyone can enjoy.

[Seyomeyo]

And this all happens after XIV 1.0 goes down. Anyone see a pattern here?

[Leonardus]

Honestly, there really is no harm in making different difficultly mode for different events so that we can all play the small amount of new content you put out each month.

Example...
Easy mode NNI (random 5-15 jump but floor 100 doesn't give KI (so only drops 1-3 random peices))
Easy mode(12 man) Legion (mob lose 50% hp and drops rates are halved)

Really, it isn't that hard and it's a nice way for newer player to get to learn events and eventually get to the more rewarding hard mode and of course the hardcore players still get everything first cause they started on hard mode.

No, we can't have this. Instead, let's make things as inaccessible and frustrating as possible. We don't want future events turning out like...Abyssea. What a mistake that was.

[MarkovChain]

You want to hear a funny thing, though a TRUE fact ? In my LS we are 2 players, we both have an afterglow weapon that we farmed with umbral marrows. I'm going to tell this to the dev team. Getting ourself enough marrows for an afterglow verethragna cost us 120 marrows which is 5 weeks. Now, do you think you guys have built legion system or nyzul gear so that people can get it in 5 weeks ? I'm farily sur you think it's close to impossible to get, well sorry, for us, it was clearly easier and faster than grinding 5x25 floor 80 or the bullshit event that legion is (gather 18 people several times a day to get fail drops). I mean while the losers get their arise or meteor scrolls (5 millions to split into 18), I'm getting 5 marrows which I will split in 2 for 45 millions.

If you want to look credible, I challenge you to entirely remove perfect defense from the game, and realise that none of the content you release is based on skill or gear. unlike what you pretend. I mean you already pretended when you released NNI that getting to F100 would be extremely rare (do you even check your statistics?) and that the correct way would be F80 gear spam... What did players do ?

[Kraggy]

I think this has been obvious ever since Absolute Virtue, but the question is: why? Why is the dev team wasting time creating content they think is impossible when they are already overworked and players are already fed up? In what world is this a sane use of resources?
Er, but AV WAS beaten, eventually.

I don't see a problem here, adding content that can't be 'beaten' TODAY, being there when players are geared up through content to be released over time.

And to those alluding to the resources SE devote to creating such content being wasted, well, yeah, I'm sure many players could say that about content THEY can't aspire to completing for various reasons. Given these resources are likely pretty minor in the great scheme of things, that's not an argument worth worrying about IMO.

[Feiid]

Greetings,

Ever since the announcement about the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava, there have been a lot of comments and feedback regarding content difficulty. Including comments from many of you that feel like the development team is creating content that they don't want you to beat.

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

When it comes to content like Legion and Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey floor 100, they were designed to be difficult without very good gear and a high skill level. As a result, those players who do not meet a certain level will have trouble clearing this content; however, that is the context of their difficulty. The development team believes that the rewards obtainable from such difficult content should only be available to a portion of players. (Based on the stats, not everyone will be able to possess it.)

It would be hard to call it very difficult content if just anyone was able to beat it.
(Frankly, the Hall of Mul is extremely, extremely difficult. However, we saw one group of players who went all out and challenge it and we were all relieved.)

With that said, we will not be lowering the difficulty because there are people who feel that the battle is too difficult. Instead, we would like players to collect better gear from slightly easier content, work out a battle strategies, and rise to the challenge.

Of course, because of this, there will be a need to help players gradually strengthen themselves and have a wide selection of moderate content to choose from, so we would like to do our best to fill that need.

Whether or not something is difficult varies from person to person, and this is where a lot of discrepancies arise, but when creating content we need to draw a line somewhere and balance things. We would like you all to be somewhat aware of where the lines have been drawn for highly difficult content.

*In the future, we will look into revamping the difficulty of older content when higher-tier content is added.

This is my first post, so go easy on me, but here are my thoughts on this matter.

Camate, you have to tell the developers of this game to stop changing things in a negative way after content has been released and has been around for a long time. I'll give you an analogy, and hopefully one that the dev's understand since baseball is a popular sport in Japan: what they do to the player base would be like what a bad umpire does in baseball to a pitcher. The Ump. (the dev's), would establish a strike zone early in the game, and the pitchers (us) would get used to it, no matter how weird that strike zone was. However, after about the 5th inning, for no logical reason, the umpire would randomly change the strike zone and expect the pitcher to adapt just to make the game more to the ump's liking. If you've ever watched baseball, you know what would happen: pitchers would get angry, fans would get angry, managers would get angry and get tossed, all because the umpire didn't leave strike zone the the way it was.

I mean, if they want to make things difficult and not revamp them, fine, let them be obtuse in that way. But to keep changing the rules after they determine too many people are finishing content at a faster pace than they intended (embrava and PD nerf for neo-nyzul and ADL, respectively), well, it's like an umpire changing a strike zone mid-way through a game. It makes no one happy, and it's really not a smart thing to do.

Basically, the devs need to establish rules, keep them consistent, and if anything, make things easier over time. Not make things more difficult once the player base has figured out how to beat something efficiently. That's just unacceptable.

[Luvbunny]

LMAO the developer response is insanely hilarious..... Basically a big middle finger to all who play and pay the game. At least it is targeted to the hardcore crowd, and the fact that the gears are mostly sidegears, it makes it all the better for the casual crowds. As long as they focus on creating content that is targeted to the casual players, I don't really care about the other hilariously difficult content designed not to be beaten unless you are a total addict and have no life. Let them eat their cake and have at it. Though this ill omen does not bode well, if this is how their vision for FFXI, the only decision we have left is to vote with our action, and just take a good 3-4 months break every now and then. When you come back there will be enough content that last you another 3-4 months before you are due for another break.

[saevel]

Greetings,

Ever since the announcement about the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava, there have been a lot of comments and feedback regarding content difficulty. Including comments from many of you that feel like the development team is creating content that they don't want you to beat.

Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

When it comes to content like Legion and Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey floor 100, they were designed to be difficult without very good gear and a high skill level. As a result, those players who do not meet a certain level will have trouble clearing this content; however, that is the context of their difficulty. The development team believes that the rewards obtainable from such difficult content should only be available to a portion of players. (Based on the stats, not everyone will be able to possess it.)

It would be hard to call it very difficult content if just anyone was able to beat it.
(Frankly, the Hall of Mul is extremely, extremely difficult. However, we saw one group of players who went all out and challenge it and we were all relieved.)

With that said, we will not be lowering the difficulty because there are people who feel that the battle is too difficult. Instead, we would like players to collect better gear from slightly easier content, work out a battle strategies, and rise to the challenge.

Of course, because of this, there will be a need to help players gradually strengthen themselves and have a wide selection of moderate content to choose from, so we would like to do our best to fill that need.

Whether or not something is difficult varies from person to person, and this is where a lot of discrepancies arise, but when creating content we need to draw a line somewhere and balance things. We would like you all to be somewhat aware of where the lines have been drawn for highly difficult content.

*In the future, we will look into revamping the difficulty of older content when higher-tier content is added.

Camate I know your just the messenger so I won't get angry with you.

Tell the developers they can take their ideas and shove them up their rear end.

They just said the absolute worst thing you can possibly say to your paying customers. That they heard us and decided it didn't matter and they weren't listening. Be prepared for a massive exodus of players after a statement like that.

[Mirage]

And this all happens after XIV 1.0 goes down. Anyone see a pattern here?
How can you see a pattern in something that has only happened once?

[Secondplanet]

Whether or not something is difficult varies from person to person, and this is where a lot of discrepancies arise, but when creating content we need to draw a line somewhere and balance things. We would like you all to be somewhat aware of where the lines have been drawn for highly difficult content.]

HOLY SHIT are you kidding me, do you even understand what balance is? I've spent a long time getting the best gear for summoner, getting my skills capped for both my main and my sub, but do you think i'll get invited to neo nyzul? NOT A CHANCE nobody wants summoner for it. Unless i go with one of the "few" select jobs i will never see it nor most of your new "end game" stuff.
I've spent my time getting gear skilling up so i should fit your criteria for being able to get this mythical "Only the few should have" which in itself is wrong, we all pay the same fee to play this game so why do you want us to be divided into those who should get and those who shouldn't?

Right now your making other MMO's more appealing by the second with bullshit like this.

[saevel]

Right now your making other MMO's more appealing by the second with bullshit like this.

If this is their mentality with the next expansion, I expect a large portion of the player base to move on. Most are already just kinda doing random stuff while waiting for the expansion, hoping SE changes.

Developers,

Abyssea was the best thing for 80%+ of your player base. There is a small percentage who hated how it made stuff available to everyone, but that small percentage is now that's keeping your lights on.

[Caketime]

My Crysta balance is nearly depleted, and I don't plan to replenish any of it in the near future. Thanks for the abuse SE, I must now seek a new dominatrix that will cater to my needs, you've gotten too fond of sack abuse for my comfort.

[Secondplanet]

My Crysta balance is nearly depleted, and I don't plan to replenish any of it in the near future. Thanks for the abuse SE, I must now seek a new dominatrix that will cater to my needs, you've gotten too fond of sack abuse for my comfort.

I'm joining you on this, my wife and i just terminated our continuous payment plan for this game. Wish you all the best of luck.

And would the last player who leaves, turn the lights off.

[Zagen]

Abyssea was the best thing for 80%+ of your player base. There is a small percentage who hated how it made stuff available to everyone, but that small percentage is now that's keeping your lights on.

If you honestly believe that the players left in the game are the ones who hated Abyssea for making good gear obtainable to the masses well you're either ignorant to the players around you in game or choose to be.

I took a 6-7 month break just after VW was released and I came back to find pink/blue/white armors still flooded Jeuno.

Players who deem themselves "hardcore" wish this wasn't true (heck I'm in the same boat) but the reality is designing content for the hardcore player will alienate the real money from any game.

The correct response is to create content that's new and hard at first because it's unknown/different. For a recent example think about how VW was when it first came out (talking city paths here). Hardcore players were talking about clearing fights with duos and trios but complaining about crappy drops. Then they realized how the system work and began maximizing their potential for gear drops. This information then got trickled down to the "casual" players who then got to enjoy the content that the hardcores were done with or nearly done with.

One of two things is happening, SE has run out of ideas on how to create content that is unknown/different upon release or they just don't care to put forth the effort to keep up with hardcore players instead they throw FU mechanics or luck mechanics and laugh when we say that isn't difficult or challenging just annoying and only leaves room for tactics that equate to exploiting existing mechanics before they get nerfed.

[Khary]

I don't know what to say.... except...
/SIGH

[Vinedrai]

why can't you guys just make the recent, "stay away, gimps!" as you put it, events scale in difficulty? something along the lines of lower drop rates, point rewards etc. but weaker enemies (and i don't mean 10% less HP... /facepalm) for the casuals and higher drop rates and stuff but stronger enemies for the "very good gear and a high skill level" group of players? and of course, also reconsider some high-end monster mechanics and the role of luck globally while you are at it. lowering the hp of legion mobs doesn't really make it any more appealing for hardcore players, let alone casuals. we are really fed up of cover-up excuses that we have been reading instead of "we are busy defibrillating FFXIV, deal with it"

furthermore, it is just hilarious at this point that the devs still dont realize the real problem with legion is that it isn't even worth the time and effort almost at all unless, for example, you are willing to throw tens and tens of millions at the new abjurations and their augments, not to mention they are mostly not THAT good either, or simply want bragging rights. with that translated reply, they are simply telling us to farm better gear first so we can go and farm worse gear most of the time with some sidegrades thrown into the mix, brilliant!

[Camiie]

Greetings,

Ever since the announcement about the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava, there have been a lot of comments and feedback regarding content difficulty. Including comments from many of you that feel like the development team is creating content that they don't want you to beat.

That's more than just a feeling.


Of course, that's not the case, but the development team does believe it's okay to have content that cannot be beat.

So, they feel it's ok to waste time and resources (theirs and ours) with content that's contains neither fun or progression.


When it comes to content like Legion and Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey floor 100, they were designed to be difficult without very good gear and a high skill level. As a result, those players who do not meet a certain level will have trouble clearing this content; however, that is the context of their difficulty. The development team believes that the rewards obtainable from such difficult content should only be available to a portion of players. (Based on the stats, not everyone will be able to possess it.)

The devs make it seem as though people are attempting these events in level 78 cruor gear or AF3+1 and using base magian weapons. That's simply not the case.


It would be hard to call it very difficult content if just anyone was able to beat it.
(Frankly, the Hall of Mul is extremely, extremely difficult. However, we saw one group of players who went all out and challenge it and we were all relieved.)

Oh well someone beat it so it's all OK, right?


With that said, we will not be lowering the difficulty because there are people who feel that the battle is too difficult. Instead, we would like players to collect better gear from slightly easier content, work out a battle strategies, and rise to the challenge.

Which gear? AF3+2? WoE? Voidwatch? Relics/Mythics/Empyreans? Fully completed Relics/Mythics/Empyreans? Gear that doesn't exist yet?


Of course, because of this, there will be a need to help players gradually strengthen themselves and have a wide selection of moderate content to choose from, so we would like to do our best to fill that need.

Well, you guys aren't doing a very good job of that so far. Content is either "so easy a cave man could do it" or mind-numbingly tedious, random, and overtuned. There is no middle ground.


Whether or not something is difficult varies from person to person, and this is where a lot of discrepancies arise, but when creating content we need to draw a line somewhere and balance things. We would like you all to be somewhat aware of where the lines have been drawn for highly difficult content.

We're well aware, trust me.


*In the future, we will look into revamping the difficulty of older content when higher-tier content is added.

So basically the Blizzard method.

[Nebo]

Honestly, I have to appreciate the hilarity of all this. No amount of reason, logic, negative feedback....nothing. NOTHING will sway the developement team of FFXI from crazy, asinine design philosophy.:confused:

READ YOUR F***ING FORUMS! NO ONE IS HAPPY WITH THIS BULLS**T!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

What I find to be also hilarious? They limit the ability to post on these forums to active acounts. Which means they are NOT interested in the feedback of dissatisfied customers who have been pushed to quit...or receive feedback that might bring them back.

Like this giant corporate Ostrich that will just burry its head in the sand, ignoring all logic and reason to stand behind idiotic design philosophy.

FFXIV release didn't teach you? Declining FFXI playerbase doesn't teach you? Angry players dropping like flies on your official forums won't teach you?

You deserve the epic financial failure that awaits you in the not-so-distant future.

See you in the unemployment line fellas.

[Godofgods]

Everyone complains about content being to easy today. Yet the moment content is put into effect that is a challenge, they just complain about it being to hard. And they wonder why ppl don't take them seriosuly...

[Camiie]

Everyone complains about content being to easy today. Yet the moment content is put into effect that is a challenge, they just complain about it being to hard. And they wonder why ppl don't take them seriosuly...

What it means is that there is no properly balanced content.

[Vinedrai]

Everyone complains about content being to easy today. Yet the moment content is put into effect that is a challenge, they just complain about it being to hard. And they wonder why ppl don't take them seriosuly...

recently we have been challenging luck and "PD/embrava or bust" tactics. in the current state of the game, anything you can call hard is not really hard because there is really any real challenge in it, but all because there are major game design issues which creates a fake challenge.

[Luvbunny]

Their response is the most retarded vision ever to come from a developer. Players beat the game using strategy! Knowledge over game mechanic and job mastery. And the ability to work together as a team to utilize your groups strength and knowledge over monster abilities and behavior. They should focus on creating this type of content. Not cheap NMs that will wipe your entire alliance in one shot move. And certainly it should not be based on how elite your gears and weapons are. Those things will just make the battle more manageable and controlling the chance of wiping. Gears are great reward for beating contents but it should not be top priority and strict requirement for you to do so. Empyrean +2 and Relic +2 gears should be more than adequate to beat these contents. As well as normal Magian Trials elemental weapons.

There are numerous great example within the game itself that the developers are able to create great balanced content. Zilart, ToAU and Abyssea are two shining examples on how to create enjoyable content that last for years.

[Plasticleg]

Empyrean +2 and Relic +2 gears should be more than adequate to beat these contents. As well as normal Magian Trials elemental weapons.

You were making sense until you said this.



There are numerous great example within the game itself that the developers are able to create great balanced content. Zilart, ToAU and Abyssea are two shining examples on how to create enjoyable content that last for years.

Curious as to how aby (after scars) was balanced?


But in all seriousness, this response from the DEVs is the worst excuse they've pooed out in a while; and for that, I congratulate them!

[erish]

Hi

This is one of the few posts ive made on this forum because frankly the comments shown here by the Developers/Forum Moderaters which ever the case may be have shown quite frankly that they dont understand how this is going to affect there game.

The three major events which will be affected are NNI, ADL and legion. I can still see NNI being done without embrava but i dont belive the win rate will be any where near as high as it is now. People talk alot about ADL not being doable with PD but honestly a good chainspell stun and good postioning of a backup healer ( read : someone to silena and para the stunner ) can make this event well i wont say it will be as easy as before but it is doable and at least still farmable content.

Before i talk about legion i want to make it clear to any Developer/Forum that "Gear" is not our problem my shell like any decent endgame linkshell has more mythics/relics/NNI gear(lol?) that we could possibly ever want or use. Id also like to point our as another member of my shell has that we have reached the 3rd wave of rex many many times so our experience is pretty good.

Quite simple the problem with the PD nerf and Embrava nerf is the fact that alot of the mobs are completly immune or extremly resistant to stun even with the best gear in the game you cannot guarantee that a stun will land to save your party. This becomes a problem when the monsters your fighting have TP moves or Magic moves that when when used either on there own or back to back in quick succession have the potential to one shot your parties. This is not a skill issuse this your random number generator at its finest. PD in its current state gives us the abilty to fight the mobs that are resistant to stun so we can actually move onto a mob where some form of skill ( i use this word lightly ) is involved.


You know whats bad after writeing all this i just realised your not going to read this and you dont give a flying fuck about your playerbase, why i waste my time i dont know lol.

[Tamoa]

There are numerous great example within the game itself that the developers are able to create great balanced content. Zilart, ToAU and Abyssea are two shining examples on how to create enjoyable content that last for years.

That's three examples, not two. Also, if Abyssea is content that lasts for years - how come I haven't set my foot in there in nearly one year (other than to get blinkers for my cruor that I earned doing voidwatch)?

Abyssea is boring as f**k. Only reason I'd ever go back would be to make another empyrean weapon (and then I would be going back because I have to, not because I enjoy it in any way, shape or form) or help someone with theirs. There's no fun involved whatsoever, no challenge, you've got buffs coming out your backside, no danger of losing the battle (if you do you fail beyond words). It certainly did not last me for years, same goes for most of the people I know/play with.

[Llana_Virren]

That's three examples, not two. Also, if Abyssea is content that lasts for years - how come I haven't set my foot in there in nearly one year (other than to get blinkers for my cruor that I earned doing voidwatch)?

So, just in the last year you haven't stepped foot in Abyssea? Then yes, that means the content did well by you for years.

[Tamoa]

So, just in the last year you haven't stepped foot in Abyssea? Then yes, that means the content did well by you for years.

As far as I remember, the first Abyssea add-on was introduced in June 2010. So no, Abyssea did NOT last me for years.

[Lollerblades]

Anyone else feel that the dev team are just pushing the final nail in the coffin for FFXI? Or just me ?

[Plasticleg]

Hopefully Bahamut will make a return in SoA, just to gigaflare Vana'diel.

[Tamoa]

Facepalming so hard at the amount of bitching, whining and crying going on in here. When was there not content in this game that required people not to suck if they wanted to beat it?

[Zamms]

Just to point out this since people still complain about the nerf incoming. ADL can be done without PD or Embrava done it several times. Legion can be done without PD and Embrava done it also was alot more deaths then usual but can be done. NNI well take 2 brds cycle out troub and nightengale and not suck so bad that you lose. Remember back when AV was a zergfest for drk then SE came around and made it resist blood weapon as the fight went on not to mention the sch zerg that was a short lived strat so people stopped til level increase was introduced now there is a ton of AV items all over and the gear is next to nothing in cost. I am not for the nerf but since SE is going to ignore the complaints just need to rework strats and have a good team of people who know what to do and when.

[Nebo]

Everyone complains about content being to easy today. Yet the moment content is put into effect that is a challenge, they just complain about it being to hard. And they wonder why ppl don't take them seriosuly...

This content is not an actual challenge. It is inflated with artificial difficulty, luck based bullsh*t and instant "I WIN" AOE death rape moves.

This is not challenging, balanced, engaging content with various opportunities to form strategy. This is terrible (and lazy) design.

For as much as the word "balance" spews out of their every sentence, this developement team has ZERO concept of what it actually means...or how to bring it to FFXI.

[Camiie]

Facepalming so hard at the amount of bitching, whining and crying going on in here. When was there not content in this game that required people not to suck if they wanted to beat it?

We're talking about things like Neo-Nyzul and Legion here, dear. You have to do a lot more than simply "not suck" if you want to win at those. Come back when you're ready to discuss the topic at hand instead of whatever it is you're going on about.

[woie]

getting too old for this s***

[Tamoa]

We're talking about things like Neo-Nyzul and Legion here, dear. You have to do a lot more than simply "not suck" if you want to win at those. Come back when you're ready to discuss the topic at hand instead of whatever it is you're going on about.

I know you're talking about Neo-Nyzul and Legion. Neo-Nyzul is largely luck-dependant more than anything, and then it doesn't matter much if you suck or not. But if you suck you're still likely to lose even without order lamp floors and with good floor jumps. Will it be harder after Embrava nerf? Yes. Will it be doable? Yes.

Legion halls have already been cleared by several groups without Embrava and PD. But that requires you not to suck, plain and simple.

I'm not saying SE's more recent event designs are perfect, because they aren't. What I was saying though, is that the amount of whining on this forum in general is quite astounding in my eyes. It leaves me with the impression that way too many people are of the opinion that "oh I can't do this event because <insertreasonhere>, therefore it is too hard and should be dumbed down".

I don't like the proposed nerfs to Embrava and PD, especially Embrava. It's a huge let down for all scholars out there. Maybe it needed some adjustment, but instead it's being made next to useless, and I wish SE could see that.

[Plasticleg]

To be honest, is it that hard for you to get 2 SCH's with a pimped out Stun-set? Hell, even get a third, if you're scared that you'll have issues. I'm sorry to say, Camiie-dear, but if you want to do the newest and most challanging content in-game, you need to have the most competitive gear and setup to match said content.
Spending ~3mil on flame geodes and calling it a day just won't cut it.

[Camiie]

To be honest, is it that hard for you to get 2 SCH's with a pimped out Stun-set? Hell, even get a third, if you're scared that you'll have issues. I'm sorry to say, Camiie-dear, but if you want to do the newest and most challanging content in-game, you need to have the most competitive gear and setup to match said content.
Spending ~3mil on flame geodes and calling it a day just won't cut it.

Flame geodes? Really? You obviously don't know me, and I'm not going to waste time enlightening you. Basically what you're saying is I need to get Neo-Nyzul 100 gear in order to get Neo-Nyzul 100 gear. I need to get Legion gear in order to get Legion gear. I need the most competitive gear to do the most competitive content right? I assume you can see the catch-22 there? I hope someone can, because I don't think SE sees it at all.

[MarkovChain]

Legion halls have already been cleared by several groups without Embrava and PD. But that requires you not to suck, plain and simple.


Very funny how you think stun locking= skill. What's the difference between this and PD already ? I suppose this is the awesome strategy SE is talking about. At the end of the day a single SCH with capped skill and a thunder mac staff (hi2you retaded easy to get gear) plus everyone else in fullAF3+2 + level 90 empy is going to clear legion. SE is wrong in every aspect. We can discuss a lot on what gear is needed to beat legon currently (and SE seems to think legion is the hardest, becaus ehey they are big bad boys [except they are not since you use stun or PD]), but we cannot excatly claim that a level 95 relic + full AF3+2 is something unreacheable to 99.99% of the ppl that don't touch legion. I'm going to reveal you the truth on legion that I mentionned the next day after it was released :

* legion is a trap to catch pseudo elitist players formerly from HNMs ( the same that systematically claimed that the last tier VW mobs were not beatable by gimps), where 99% of the gear is subpar or extremly unlikely to get (HQ abjuration with max augment say), and even then if you have it not many don't suck.
* the real goal of legion is to provide servers with material for crafters to reach 110 skill, which they admitted in a recent post. Its secondary goal is to allow WHMs all over the server and BLM to get arise/meteor for cheap.

They were dumb enough to let the (imo) only good piece from legion be sold at the AH (aka duplus grip) for cheap.

Legion "elitism" is your carrot, thanks for providing us all with arise !

It's sad that embrava and PD nerf is going to make you less likely to clear it. I can already hear the myhtic owners crying that they can no longer start @ 300 TP and drk being unable to souleater. Up to now I'm about correct in my predicitions and I'm going to reveal you a secret (not so secret as everyone experienced with the game will guess it) : people will stop crafting because the few good gear crafted will be beaten by salvage/new meeble gear , and because less people will do legion.

[Karbuncle]

Very funny how you think stun locking= skill.

The difference between PD/Embrava and a Stun Lock?

Any Fresh 99 Abyssea-Burned Player can do PD/Embrava (The actions, as in a SCH or SMN), But try getting some tard to Time a Stun... It ain't going to happen. Now, Embrava would actually require said SCH working on 3-4 Pieces of gear, But still requires little to no mental capacity.

Stunning actually requires Timing, I mean, Legitimately anyway... paying attention, etc. Plus, Stun Locking leads a higher risk. both strategies are really just mindless zergs, But thats what Legion was designed to be, a Huge zerg fest. Its not too bad.

Thats the only difference i can think of.

[Plasticleg]

Here's a long irrelevant hyperbole where I tell the world it's my "$12.99"

Just this...

Relics and Empys...
I didn't know they dropped in Legion.

Also, I didn't mention NNI for being a pre-req to Legion...
Have a talented and well-geared group of 18~36 people who know the event and communicate well together with Stunners, isn't dropped in NNI.

It's sad that you can't stay relevant and have to baw everywhere you go.

[Babekeke]

Stunning actually requires Timing, I mean, Legitimately anyway... paying attention, etc. Plus, Stun Locking leads a higher risk. both strategies are really just mindless zergs, But thats what Legion was designed to be, a Huge zerg fest. Its not too bad.

Thats the only difference i can think of.

Unfortunately, as a stunner, your ISP can screw you over ><

Bad connection = bad stunner.

[MarkovChain]

The difference between PD/Embrava and a Stun Lock?

Any Fresh 99 Abyssea-Burned Player can do PD/Embrava (The actions, as in a SCH or SMN), But try getting some tard to Time a Stun... It ain't going to happen. Now, Embrava would actually require said SCH working on 3-4 Pieces of gear, But still requires little to no mental capacity.

Stunning actually requires Timing, I mean, Legitimately anyway... paying attention, etc. Plus, Stun Locking leads a higher risk. both strategies are really just mindless zergs, But thats what Legion was designed to be, a Huge zerg fest. Its not too bad.

Thats the only difference i can think of.

Ok we get it, stunning is hard and requires skill. Oh man. You confirm what I said about pseudo elitism. After the nerf all legion alliance will have to take 2+ WHM, 2+ BRD, there will be much less room for SCH. Trust me you'll go back to PD. I think the new COR 2H will make people use more astral flow actually assuming it works on SP1.

[Amelimie]

Posting here had enough.
You allow players to use 3rd party programs to beat (nni 15/15 in 4 weeks.. yea you used no hax) do nothing.
You allow fish bot's to make 3+++ million a day. (see Beaucedine Glacier been going on about a year if not longer).
You doing nothing about spellcast..... you know what it is. This one thing on it's own destroys you o so important balanced game.

The player's who follow your user agreement are the ones who suffer, either give us similar advantages (enough macro Lines to change gear and ws for example), ban them, or put this shambles of a game down once and for all.

I want a response to this post not from players, but from dev team.

Apart from these issues love the game ty, SE.

[Randwolf]

First, as always, nerfing long-standing abilities is ridiculous. Especially, for the excuse given by S/E. What that excuse says is "while we expect players to be creative in beating content, we aren't capable being of creative while designing it."

Secondly, a lot of players wanted more difficult/challenging content which required people in a group to have invested time into their job. However, if we are going back to content that can't be beaten, then why waste my time on it. Please tell me which content can't be beaten so I don't spend time banging my head against the wall.

This attitude does not bode well for the expansion coming up. It may be time to get out of FFXI, if the designers have no creativity left and we are rolling the game back to where it was 6 years ago. A lot of my friends have moved on to other games. Perhaps it's time to join them. Very sad, S/E.

[Vold]

Er, but AV WAS beaten, eventually.

Yeah, with exploits. It wasn't until Perfect Defense and level cap raise that SE gave in and let us have AV kills. A group of DRKs with KCs etc took it down once upon a time which was fair and square and they answered with a nerf. I still would hardly call it a victory because it just skipped any strategy to winning for a zerg. I mean zergs count imho but they didn't do anything special other than have enough members with DRK jobs and KCs etc to pull it off which isn't an easy task in the least.

So, yeah, it was never really beaten fair and square when we were at 75 for like 5 or 6 years or whatever. That's because the devs made it impossible regardless of all the work that went into locking 2 hours, all it took was meteors launched up your ass to finish the fight once and for all. We all assumed there was a way to lock meteor. Hell rumor was the japanese figured it out and even had drops to show for it but last I recall they never shared shit with the rest of the world outside of that one group that supposedly did it. Maybe our BGian friends can comment further on that but I really think even they have better things to do than care about AV anymore.



I really think this isn't AV/PW related, though. I understood what they are saying. I just think they're going about it the wrong way because like one group settling down to take care of business is a far cry from the entire population of this game. Even CoP had more than a group of players getting through content and it in it's original form was widely regarded to be hard as frick. More CoP, and less of The Halls of whatever.

[Falseliberty]

I remember everyone crying over the uko and victory smite nerf... guess what!
war and mnk still on the top of the food chain this thou might be diff for smn and sch.

There is much much bigger problem atm, In short the game didn't scale well to 99 from 75.
Yes I know the game wasn't very balanced either at 75 but look at it now.
When was the last time a brd cast ballad? When was the last time rdm cast refresh (when was the last time someone even saw a rdm). When was the last time a pld main tanked the big boss and not play mr/mrs hold the adds.
When was the last time a thf did SATAWS for hate control. When was the last time enfeebling magic mattered.
Core game mechanics that used to exist, no longer (mp management,hate control, dedicated tanking, debuffing)
While everything else in the game moved forward those long time staples kinda fell behind.
This is much bigger than just PD or embrava.

PS doesn't help that everything SE adds is a 20-30 min timed event as of late *NNI legion meebles* forwarding the notion of zerging

[Karbuncle]

Ok we get it, stunning is hard and requires skill. Oh man. You confirm what I said about pseudo elitism. After the nerf all legion alliance will have to take 2+ WHM, 2+ BRD, there will be much less room for SCH. Trust me you'll go back to PD. I think the new COR 2H will make people use more astral flow actually assuming it works on SP1.

I didn't say it was hard. I just said its more complicated than Using a 2hour.

But, I shouldn't be surprised by how easily you fly off the handle and exaggerate.

[Mahoro]

* legion is a trap to catch pseudo elitist players formerly from HNMs ( the same that systematically claimed that the last tier VW mobs were not beatable by gimps), where 99% of the gear is subpar or extremly unlikely to get (HQ abjuration with max augment say), and even then if you have it not many don't suck.
* the real goal of legion is to provide servers with material for crafters to reach 110 skill, which they admitted in a recent post. Its secondary goal is to allow WHMs all over the server and BLM to get arise/meteor for cheap.

They were dumb enough to let the (imo) only good piece from legion be sold at the AH (aka duplus grip) for cheap.


Guess those Esper Earrings, Ngen Seraweels, Wrathwing Nails, Wurrakatte Boots, Maniacus Sashes, and Striga Crowns (along with the Duplus Grips, Meteors/Arises and Huginn/Khepri/Iaso abjurations you cited) are hardly worth a 30 minute event for people who have long since capped out on other events. Not to mention the alternative to mind-numbing gil farming (lord knows why some Legion point items sell on the AH but they do). Perhaps we should just sit and watch our Moogle spin in between selling Marrows, and wait a year for the next expansion.

There is no trap here. There is only an alternative game activity to farming one's 8th Empyrean/Relic, farming one's 200th ADL or killing one's 900th VW mob. And a way to make those final tweaks to jobs. It's also fun, and a rare example of an event that gets the blood racing in a game where nearly everything else induces comas or can be steamrolled. Can you truly not sympathize with any of this?

[saevel]

It's also fun, and a rare example of an event that gets the blood racing in a game where nearly everything else induces comas or can be steamrolled. Can you truly not sympathize with any of this?

Ehh I kinda agree with most of what you said except this. Legion is steamrolled just like everything else. Instead of PD spammage you use Embrava and a few SCH/BLM's stun locking the NM's so they don't get any of their moved off. The strategies are essentially the same, you deny the target any offensive capability while having a group of highly buffed melee's zerg it down. The hardest part of legion is the complex invite / drops that need to be orchestrated to save as much time as possible. That and the SCH's being really good at timing their stuns.

[MarkovChain]

Stunning is hard guys, legion elitism. It's pretty pathetic, especially after SE explicitely stated you needed to farm other endgame to win. Imo they made this post just to revive some interest for legion because they clearly see it's a fiasco. A fiasco on which the crafting system expansion is entirely dependant. Double fail. Here is the situation of the good gear distribution atm.

50% : Abyssea.
10% : VW for some jobs and situationnally side grades for AF3+2.
10% : nyzul same as above.
10% : dynamis
20% : Other sources (AH meeble ..)
1% : legion.

No SE, you will not trick us. People don't do legion not because it's "hard" but because there is nothing to get out of it.

[Byrth]

For DNC, Legion offers Khepri head/body and Pugiunculus. It also drops the mats you need to make Khepri legs and the Honors you need to augment all the Khepri gear. If you restrict it to things that you can obtain specifically from Legion and not from the AH, I'd say it offers Khepri head and Pugiunculus.

For SMN, Legion offers Esper Earring and Ngen Seraweels.

For WAR, Legion offers Kumarbi's Akar (Regen set) and C.Feet. It is also the major source of Ormolu ingots and the only source of Honors.


These lists are very short and often buyable. As a gil source, I pulled in about 4~5mil average per 2 hour Legion run, which is good for people that don't want to farm ADL. If other groups on my server were better at Legion, I wouldn't make nearly as much gil. Still, is this *that* bad when compared against a level 75 standard? What were the lists for all of the Ground HNM scene like at 75?

WAR - E.body, Ridill (when people wanted Ridill)
MNK - Black Belt
THF - N.head, N.legs
PLD - Nothing
BLM+RDM - Zenith Mitts (also could get from Genbu) and maybe Dalmatica before Salvage?
WHM - Nothing
SAM - Nothing
RNG - Nothing
etc.

Compared to that, Legion is super rewarding.

[SpankWustler]

I think that's both in and out of perspective. Nidhogg and Co. were created when much less equipment existed and most of the equipment that did exist was overtly awful.

Moving back and back in time towards Rise of the Zilart, the list of useful stuff from Nidhogg and Co. expands a bit. Also, so much of the equipment was so awful back then that getting the best or second-best piece could mean no longer needing to use a piece of equipment that rightly should never have existed.

Right now, Legion is relatively new and its equipment is as relevant on paper as it will ever be. The crafted sets from Legion will probably become easier to craft, but that won't make them any better.

Although, I imagine already having so much equipment that isn't cat-poop-on-fire-shaped-into-the-likeness-of-your-dead-fiance makes it much harder to add equipment that people find appealing. So, maybe there's a Catch-22 here and Legion is roughly as rewarding as the average modern event can be, after all?

Also, sorry, but I couldn't resist...


Pugiunculus.
Half pug. Half homunculus.
http://th05.deviantart.net/fs70/200H/f/2011/357/d/f/pug_creature_close_up_by_boularis-d4k0979.jpg

[Byrth]

That's pretty much what I'm going for. Given that these options exist and we can't have events justified by the horridness of alternatives anymore, Legion is approximately as rewarding as a level 75 event was just before the level cap increase, when there existed a lot of 70-75 armor.

Many Samurais did Salvage purely for Usukane feet and body. Compared to that level of effort, Legion isn't bad.

[MarkovChain]

For WAR, Legion offers Kumarbi's Akar (Regen set)
Can you be serious a minute.

[saevel]

For WAR, Legion offers Kumarbi's Akar (Regen set) and C.Feet. It is also the major source of Ormolu ingots and the only source of Honors.

BWAHAHAHAHAHA

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Sorry had to get that out.

There are some decent upgrades for mages, but the vast majority of the gear is 1~2% improvement at best, if it even has improvement. Legion is mostly for people to say their doing something rather then spamming the same old content.

[Byrth]

I AM serious. Seriously running around regening 12 HP/tick like a boss!

Haters gonna hate.

[MarkovChain]

Checking out my invo (mnk).

4 items come from dynamis (one of them being a relic)
8 items come from AH (mostly bcnm or crafted stuff)
13 items from abyssea
3 from voidwatch (with 2 being AH able)
3 from meeble
3 from salvage
4 from artifact
1 from walk of echoes
1 from legion (AH-able)
1 from sky
2 from neo nyzul
2 from hnms
3 from sea/limbus
1 random from imperial standing rank

[Byrth]

For my WAR:

5 from Dynamis (Ragnarok included)
9 from AH
15 from Abyssea (Ukon and augmented items included)
12 from Voidwatch (9 buyable if you include bodies)
0 from meeble (but some day 1)
0 from artifact
1 from walk of echoes
2 from Legion
1 from Sky
4 from neo nyzul
4 from sea
1 from limbus
1 from campaign
2 mission reward (Moonshade and Rajas)
1 that I apparently didn't count anywhere because this only adds to 58 and I have 59 items in my inventory


I'm using a pretty minimal set at the moment because I'm just out testing, but these are the basics.

[MarkovChain]

Sums up pretty much that they do everything wrong. 3 years after abyssea gear is still relevant.

[Byrth]

Well, more like 2 years, but you have to remember that most of the crap we used before Abyssea was ~5 years old. Gear turnover in this game is very slow, which is what used to make it seem worthwhile to farm for slight upgrades. Now people look at small increases in performance through gear and basically blow it off because something good is going to come out in a year that outdates it.

[MarkovChain]

I don't agree, in the gear I listed you still find level 75 stuff that I kept

4+ items come from AH (mostly bcnm or crafted stuff) including .. an earth staff
3 from salvage
4 from artifact
1 from sky
2 from hnms
3 from sea/limbus
1 random from imperial standing rank

They failed to replace basic gear. Those gear include stuff like rajas/brutal earring, sea gorget, black belt, defending ring,
basic AF, a boomerang, byakko... There are rooms for upgrade to these items but they just don't want too and prefer introducing downgrades for melee or WS gear. They have no clear vision of "items upgrade" either as many meeble items beat other options too when you would think harder content should be better, but no !

They advertised legion as hard with super awesome abjurations (DA+2 on gloves guys !). It's not the case, but many people think they do. They also made several post at one point and basically told us that arise and meteor dropped from legion (which we didn't see lol). I mean I think it's the first time they have actually given such contribution to an event by explaining what it drops. And now this thread. They are quite desperate I would say.

[Camiie]

With that said, we will not be lowering the difficulty because there are people who feel that the battle is too difficult. Instead, we would like players to collect better gear from slightly easier content, work out a battle strategies, and rise to the challenge.

Whenever the devs make excuses about anything and ask for our patience or whatever, I'm going to mercilessly throw this back in their collective faces. Enjoy!

[Mahoro]

Checking out my invo (mnk).

4 items come from dynamis (one of them being a relic)
8 items come from AH (mostly bcnm or crafted stuff)
13 items from abyssea
3 from voidwatch (with 2 being AH able)
3 from meeble
3 from salvage
4 from artifact
1 from walk of echoes
1 from legion (AH-able)
1 from sky
2 from neo nyzul
2 from hnms
3 from sea/limbus
1 random from imperial standing rank

You are essentially proving my point. Legion's proportion of useful equipment is more or less the same as the vast majority of events added in the last several years. About ~20% useful spread out amongst the 20 jobs and ~80% crap. Count up the useful pieces from VW, WoE, Neo-Limbus, etc., divide by the total number of items in each event, and you will find similar proportions (~10%-25%). We already know SE throws a lot of junk gear into its events. This is not new. Does that mean we should just stop playing all new content?

Did YOU yourself refrain from doing Meeble Burrows because you discovered it had one or two good MNK pieces, but the majority of the other items are crap? Of course not. As a WHM + SMN-gearing player, would I automatically condemn the event and all of my MNK friends who want to do it simply because there isn't anything I need from a WHM + SMN perspective? Of course not.

Nobody is denying Abyssea has the highest concentration of useful gear of any event in recent memory. In fact, the event surprisingly blew away the ~10-25% percentage and brought it to something like ~80% or higher. Everybody made it their business to get full sets of all the AF3 gear. We KNOW this already. Stop comparing apples and oranges.

What you keep irrationally refuting is the proposition that anyone who does Legion is not doing it because they are elitists, but simply because they are looking for some fun, challenging content to min/max their characters when they have everything else for their jobs.

[Byrth]

When people come back to the game now, I make sure to tell them not to do Legion (http://wiki.bluegartr.com/bg/Returning_to_Vana%27diel#Legion)or bother with it in the least until they're totally capped out on other content. Having the hardest events in the game offer arguably the smallest upgrades is really just a way to avoid power creep. We have all the other gear, so we're willing to work for increasingly minor upgrades to the jobs we like. Minor upgrades don't offer a power-creep problem.

Once you cap out on other content, what do you do? You either focus on aesthetic upgrades, minor functional upgrades (like Khepri Jacket), or stop attempting to upgrade your character in a meaningful way and just do the events that you find fun. I view Legion both as fun (requires coordination of multiple people that can't be pants-on-head retarded) and offering small functional upgrades to my jobs. I prefer this to farming gil to buy Khepri Jacket/Kecks or farming gil to make my weapons glow because, though those might improve me more or make my character more unique, they wouldn't be very fun for me.

I do Legion and Provenance these days. The only R/Ex Legion drop I've gotten that I really wanted was T.Head, which I uncursed. The only thing I have gotten from Provenance that I use sometimes is Wanion belt. Still no Myrmex Mittens or Tessera's Saio, and I enter every Provenance run assuming I'm going to suffer for an hour to make ~200k gil average. Compared to that, Legion is a rewarding breeze.

A large fraction of my Legion shell also does Ballista just because they find it fun. I'm not quite willing to jump into the "you are spending time playing FFXI but aren't upgrading your character in any way" bandwagon, but I'll at least keep doing Legion just for fun.

[kewitt]

I never understood the point of getting gear to get better gear in PvE MMOs. PvE MMO should be more about story, quest, and helping others. Gear wise, I always looked at FFXI as Story > level > Helping other > Gear.

In that of you can completed the story at your level you don't need more levels.
In that to help other you needed to be higher level then them.
In that being geared to your level can make things easier but not the difference in not being able to do something.

But almost all of the story can now be completed with the 78 abbysea sets and a level 99 party of 2-4. So my hubby and I are almost done every quest, mission in the game without doing Weapon upgrades quests.

Now in a PvP MMO that makes sense to me because then you're fighting other people where better gear over comes skill.

[Dragoy]

If nothing else, I guess it will make more sense to call it Embrava instead of Aura. Although in some newer titles it has been similar to what it is going to be just as well.

With that said, why is it called Embrava instead of Aura again? I forget if there was any discussion about it when it was introduced (Japanese version is Aura though).

I guess it's like why Kaustra is Kaustra, instead of Merton...

Hahah, oh, but I digress... dommaind.

[Nala]

Er, but AV WAS beaten, eventually.

I don't see a problem here, adding content that can't be 'beaten' TODAY, being there when players are geared up through content to be released over time.

And to those alluding to the resources SE devote to creating such content being wasted, well, yeah, I'm sure many players could say that about content THEY can't aspire to completing for various reasons. Given these resources are likely pretty minor in the great scheme of things, that's not an argument worth worrying about IMO.

Yeah after the level cap was upped, and a few times at the 75 cap initially by Kclub dark zergs which was later nerfed, then by exploiting a sort of terrain glitch and a battery of BLM's which was deemed an exploit and patched.

At the 75 cap AV was never beaten the "proper" way to this day no one really knows exactly WTF was the proper way to beat AV.

Edit: Would seem some one already beat me to including this info, guess that's what i get for being late to the conversation...

[Raksha]

Not that I ever did AV back in the day, But i'm pretty sure SE expected you to lock his chainspell/manafont/benediction and kill him the normal way.

IIRC meteor was the main thing that fucked everyone up (maybe bracelets ga spells? idk)

[saevel]

Not that I ever did AV back in the day, But i'm pretty sure SE expected you to lock his chainspell/manafont/benediction and kill him the normal way.

IIRC meteor was the main thing that fucked everyone up (maybe bracelets ga spells? idk)

Except there was no way to lock out his 2hr's until after he used them, namely Benediction / Chainspell. If you didn't have a WHM lock out Benediction he was basically invincible, and your why had to use their 2hr within a few seconds of AV using his, if lag happened then you had to get wait another long a$$ time for him to bene again. Chainspell Meteor was much the same way, you had to have a RDM immediately use CS and even then you had to ride out at least one wave of Meteor spam, something that usually wiped a few alliances.

And that's only ~after~ they patched him, initially there was no way to lock out Benediction / Chainspell meteor. Groups have fought him for 24+ hours straight rotating alliances (NA -> JP) and still couldn't kill him. Then a group found out the wall glitch and used a couple of PLDs running in and building hate then running away and sticking him in the corner. On the other side was a bunch of BLMs nuking away to slowly bring him down. They killed him and he dropped absolutely nothing, no title no treasure pool, absolutely squat. Was a huge issue back then, that SE would create a super boss that had no drops. SE soon patched away the glitch, and much later added "drops" and lowered his HP. Soon an alliance of KC drk's were able to beat him by killing him before he could 2hr meteor spam / benediction. Entire servers were collecting people to make AV attempts until SE nerfed soul eater. After that AV become something people would die on "for the lulz", they lowered it to 2hr max time but it didn't make any difference.

[Byrth]

I think we know exactly how to beat him. I don't think there are any more secret mechanisms, SE just expected it to be a long and incredibly difficult/frustrating fight. Here's how the fight was supposed to go:
1) Get awesome Tanks, more than you need, so AV can't kill them faster than they unweaken. - This was possible at 75 with Aegis PLDs.
2) Hold AV while you break his regen by spamming the same element as the day.
3) Also lock AV's 2-hour triplets at the same time by following his 2-hour with your own.
4) At this point you have a monster with low Regen that can't 2-hour and a reliable holding team, so you basically just fight a really long fight whittling him away down to 0 HP.

The problem is that this strategy became totally impossible when they introduced the 2 hour time limit. Not to mention that it was essentially impossible to start with because when AV came out COR and Revitalizers didn't exist and we all legitimately had to wait 2 hours before we could 2-hour again so any mess-up potentially extended the fight 2 hours. If I had to guess, I'd say this was designed to be about an 8 hour fight at 75 assuming nothing went wrong, and partial wipes would add on from there.

[SpankWustler]

The problem is that this strategy became totally impossible when they introduced the 2 hour time limit.


The Adjustment of Virtue: A Tragic Comedy in One Act

Developer A: So, how do we change this fight that's based on abilities with a two-hour recharge time?

Developer B: Let's just give it a time limit of two hours, like the other fight we just adjusted.

Developers A-D applaud. Developer E scampers up the scaffolding, presumably in celebration; he begins disrobing and destroying the stage in turn.

Developer C: I ate a stray cat once.

Developer A: Whole?

[Camiie]

Just gonna pose this to the devs:

Don't you see that impossible or extremely difficult content ends up driving players to seek out exploits, 3rd party tools, and possibly RMT more than they otherwise would? I don't think you want that, but it's what you're promoting when you start dangling the carrot too far out of reach of even the best players.

I used to be absolutely dead-set against their use, but now with the attitude you've expressed, I've changed my tune. While I can't say I'll be using anything illegal, I certainly will no longer think poorly of or report anyone doing so. As long as the house feels it's ok to stack the deck against the players, I have no issue with anyone who wants to try and even their odds. It may not mean much to them, but I apologize to anyone I've given a hard time to on this subject. Do what you gotta do, people. I now completely understand.

Now back to the devs. If my mind can be changed by your "new" stance, what do you think others are thinking? What about those who were already using those methods? Don't you think they might feel emboldened? What about those on the fence? You don't think you just gave them a nice hard shove in a direction you don't want them to go? Really think about what you're doing here guys.

[Hashmalum]

I think we know exactly how to beat him. I don't think there are any more secret mechanisms, SE just expected it to be a long and incredibly difficult/frustrating fight. Here's how the fight was supposed to go:
1) Get awesome Tanks, more than you need, so AV can't kill them faster than they unweaken. - This was possible at 75 with Aegis PLDs.
2) Hold AV while you break his regen by spamming the same element as the day.
3) Also lock AV's 2-hour triplets at the same time by following his 2-hour with your own.
4) At this point you have a monster with low Regen that can't 2-hour and a reliable holding team, so you basically just fight a really long fight whittling him away down to 0 HP.

The problem is that this strategy became totally impossible when they introduced the 2 hour time limit. Not to mention that it was essentially impossible to start with because when AV came out COR and Revitalizers didn't exist and we all legitimately had to wait 2 hours before we could 2-hour again so any mess-up potentially extended the fight 2 hours. If I had to guess, I'd say this was designed to be about an 8 hour fight at 75 assuming nothing went wrong, and partial wipes would add on from there.The infamous official AV video showed that it was an 8+ hour fight the way the dev team did it--remember the accusations that the dev team were using debug/GM mode tricks of some sort to reset 2 hours, because we saw the same players using 2 hours on the same in-game day? They weren't, they just fought the damn thing long enough for the in-game week to wrap over. This also fits with their statements about how the way we were trying to kill it was "too fast", as well as the fact that they initially designed Pandemonium Warden to be a grueling endurance match against 20 forms each with a ton of HP. They came from the crazed, brutal old-school online gaming culture of EverQuest 1 that thought that literally spending all day to kill a mob once (never mind the weeks needed to farm the pop items!) was totally reasonable.

I'm guessing that the other thing they expected us to do was to have multiple outside parties killing pets and being ready to rotate into the alliance that was actually fighting AV when there was a mass casualty event like Meteor. The fact that this would mean that of the dozens who fight AV, only 18 would even get the title and a handful would get drops of any kind was just one of those classic old-school FFXI screwjobs, like having up to 64 people farming Dynamis for one egomaniac's weapon.

Then they took this same design mentality into an era where everything was on a timer because something something legal liability something something what's "instancing"? something, only just barely watered down enough to avoid riots, and that's why we get these ridiculous NMs that we need ridiculous abilities to beat and ridiculous statements from the dev team about it. They just have never adjusted to the fact that there is massive competition and people will leave rather than stick it out when faced with bullshit, they never adjusted to the mentality of producing an ongoing user experience rather than a static product handed down from on high, and they never adjusted to the fact that their core audience is aging and shrinking and doesn't have the spare time or patience that they did when they were younger.

[saevel]

I'm guessing that the other thing they expected us to do was to have multiple outside parties killing pets and being ready to rotate into the alliance that was actually fighting AV when there was a mass casualty event like Meteor. The fact that this would mean that of the dozens who fight AV, only 18 would even get the title and a handful would get drops of any kind was just one of those classic old-school FFXI screwjobs, like having up to 64 people farming Dynamis for one egomaniac's weapon.

AV originally had no drops or title as was confirmed by the first group to kill him using the wall glitch. Those were added MUCH later, when they made it "killable". AV (and PW who originally had infinite forms not 20) were designed as ultimate boss's that high level players would throw themselves against time after time for the "challenge". Most of us weren't that stupid and recognized the BS, though some still insisted that they could somehow kill those two. Think artificial content extension.

[Llana_Virren]

AV originally had no drops or title as was confirmed by the first group to kill him using the wall glitch. Those were added MUCH later, when they made it "killable". AV (and PW who originally had infinite forms not 20) were designed as ultimate boss's that high level players would throw themselves against time after time for the "challenge". Most of us weren't that stupid and recognized the BS, though some still insisted that they could somehow kill those two. Think artificial content extension.

And remember the temp bans SE handed out to the first LS that "beat" AV using wall hacks? Leave it to SE: "You defeated our unbeatable timesink?! Account suspended! Problem?"

[Llana_Virren]

...they never adjusted to the mentality of producing an ongoing user experience rather than a static product handed down from on high....

This is precisely the problem. They do not understand that mechanics in a single-player console RPG do not work in an MMO.

[Vortex]

Hmm...i wonder why SE is trying so hard to kill their playerbase.

[Lilia]

Hmm...i wonder why SE is trying so hard to kill their playerbase.

need the pl in FF14 and not in FF11 >.<

[Pebe]

This has probably already been said but this thread is too long to read everything :P

Embrava = DD buff.
Basically Embrava is a play of bravery from older FF games. It Is the end all, be all melee DD buff. DDs have no need for refresh. It is pointless to replace regain with refresh, if you thought regain was so broken, why not replace it with another DD buff like attack or double attack. Or, you could have just lowered the cap on regain to 3 a tick. I mean COR gets a 5 tick regain roll, i don't see how it is so broken. Perhaps you thought it took one of cor's niche's, that is the only reason I can see for taking away regain. Also, if you are going to lower the duration by so much, I don't see why it couldn't be kept at its full potency. It really is not that game changing as it seems over a short time span.(see below) Furthermore, if you want Embrava to be useful for mages as well, why not just add faith that is locked under tabula rasa as well? It would give Refresh, Fast Cast and Mabb/Macc and would make far more sense.

In all honesty everything Embrava does can be done by other jobs.
Capped Haste - double march + haste spell
-So instead of bringing 2/3 schs, replace one with a second bard
5 tick regain - Tacticians Roll
-Bring a second cor if you really need this, you never really stacked these anyway, because the main cor usually did fighters/chaos on high end mobs.
Regen - this was the only really unique thing embrava did as embrava + Regen V gives a huge hp recovered over time.

[Luvbunny]

Agree, Embrava just put all those in one neat little package, that is until the upcoming adjustment. Scholar can still give TP via Adloquium spell which can be stacked with Tactician Rolls. Personally the upcoming adjustment is just making it more inconvenient for the alliance to set up optimal buffs. You end up having to swap around party members to get the best buffs.

[Kristal]

Furthermore, if you want Embrava to be useful for mages as well, why not just add faith that is locked under tabula rasa as well? It would give Refresh, Fast Cast and Mabb/Macc and would make far more sense.


Only if RDM gets Embrava and Faith while using Chainspell, kay?

[Camate]

Hello everyone!

I would like to share a message from Producer Akihiko Matsui in regards to the adjustments for Perfect Defense and Embrava.



Hello. Matsui here.

I apologize, but I wasn’t able to secure any time to respond to this topic in full today due to meetings, so I will start off by just informing you all of the conclusion that we made and the reasons for the decision regarding the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava.

We will be holding off on implementing the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava in the upcoming version update. (The battle content adjustments that were based on the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava will still be implemented as planned.)

At the time of last week’s post we had been moving forward based on the idea that we would be implementing these adjustments in the December version update; however, considering the below points we have decided to push it back it.


We have not explained the thorough reasoning to all of you posting and reading the official forums, nor have we explained to the entire community who browse and operate fan sites.
It was thought that these adjustments would be implemented in conjunction with the new special abilities.


The amount of text for the specific explanation as well as the future plan has become quite large, so I’d like to take some time tomorrow and the next day to get everything organized (I’m a slow writer).

Thank you very much.

[Mirage]

That's pretty interesting.

[tyrantsyn]

He actually wants to take the time and explain it too us? That's a change of pace. Tho the explanation of why embrava is going from a Regain to a Refresh would be a welcome explanation.

[Cowardlybabooon]

Holy crap, get your Nyzul group ready. We will get the new floor jumps and items at 80 while embrava is still 12.5 mins!

[Dekar]

The thing that really scares me is the fact they admit to not having explained their entire reasoning behind it. Shouldn't they have done that first?

[Mirage]

Holy crap, get your Nyzul group ready. We will get the new floor jumps and items at 80 while embrava is still 12.5 mins!
Shhh, let's try to not make SE think twice about this.

[Rezeak]

imo it shows that the producer finnaly got around to listening to us.

as for the reasoning, Embrava and PD are overpowered is the reason they need a nerf, but the holding off on it is probably more to do with the way they are adjusting the content is nowhere near enough to offset the loss of PD and Embrava (especially in legion)

it's positive either way.

[Luvbunny]

Thank you for taking the time to actually listen to our feedback. And really appreciate that the Director is willing to give us full proper explanation on the reasoning behind it. I am really glad at this change of attitude, and wish that this will be the tone moving forward. Embrava is not just used on endgame, but it is quite convenient to use on other things as well in abyssea and outside. It is one of the best 2 hours ever designed in this game, why not use it as aspiration on how to design the perfect 2 hours ability and implement it forward to other jobs.

[Unctgtg]

Update is probably next week since xmas stuff usually comes with update.

[Randwolf]

I hope they do this with all nerfs in the future, give a detailed reason. While few people play just one job anymore, for those that do, nerfs, like the one proposed, can really impact where they fit in on end game. And, please, never, ever, use the "balance" excuse. The jobs have become just way too complex to use that excuse.

Also, S/E, thanks for holding off on doing this.

[Kraggy]

The thing that really scares me is the fact they admit to not having explained their entire reasoning behind it. Shouldn't they have done that first?
Given that's how they've operated for the entire 10 years this game has been live, at least have the decency to ack. that this is a very welcome change of tack and hope that it's an indication of things to come.

[Aldersyde]

I'm just glad they decided to hold off until the new SP abilities and adjustment to a one-hour timer are implemented, since that's the reason they told us PD and embrava had to adjusted to begin with (while I suspect there's something more to it than this).

[Helel]

Man, there's pretty much no excuse whatsoever for not having Nyzul gear after this. Floor 80 is extremely easy to reach with the current system.

[Llana_Virren]

...[A]s for the reasoning, Embrava and PD are overpowered is the reason they need a nerf....

I can't stand when this statement is repeated. Embrava and PD are overpowered only in comparison to other, less useful SPs. Embrava and PD are in no way overpowered in comparison to the borked end-game.

Yes, they are abused. I have been in many a Provenance shout group that relies on Embrava during the Cat fights because the DDs are garbage. But the problem with Embrava and PD is not how powerful it is. The problem with these abilities is how even with these supposedly "overpowered", game-breaking abilities, the end-game scene still relies on a strike of luck against "fack you" monster abilities with no other significant form of mitigation.

If FFXI should be engineered for the elitists of the world, then make the leet gear purchasable with real money. Let the game content be fun, not stupid, and anyone who takes personal status over in-game enjoyment can line SE's coffers without being a scapegoat for the stupidity of the FFXI development program.

[xiozen]

I can't stand when this statement is repeated.

Ok, I can appreciate that... its the rest of your post that I take issue with... so let me begin.


Embrava and PD are overpowered only in comparison to other, less useful SPs.

Opinion: Noted. You apparently appear to be saying that other SPs are less useful; that is ok... your opinion, as stated, is noted.


Embrava and PD are in no way overpowered in comparison to the borked end-game.

I have not idea what you are referring to here... what "borked" end-game... what are you talking about?


Yes, they are abused. By what standard is this "abuse" occurring, is this based on an known evidence you can provide to support this statement. Have the developers stated that Embrava and PD are abused by the player base? Please provide such statements or comments if they were made by the development team.


I have been in many a Provenance shout group that relies on Embrava during the Cat fights because the DDs are garbage. **Ahhh, a breath of fresh air in this post---something based on your actual gameplay experience... I only wish more of this post was so enlightened.


But the problem with Embrava and PD is not how powerful it is. The problem with these abilities is how even with these supposedly "overpowered", game-breaking abilities, the end-game scene still relies on a strike of luck against "fack you" monster abilities with no other significant form of mitigation. Hmm, what are you trying to say here? You mention that there's a "problem" with the abilities Embrava and PD, but you fail to state what the actual problem is...


If FFXI should be engineered for the elitists of the world Is this an opinion? I cannot help but "assume" it is... please provide at least one post, from the developers that state FFXI was engineered for the elitists of the world... since you stated "If FFXI should be engineered for elitists..." I'm assuming you have some evidence to support this statement, so that I can make some sense of the rest of it.


then make the leet gear purchasable with real money. Your comment referencing purchasing "leet gear" with real money--isn't that in the Terms of Service of the game as a violation worth being banned over? If so, why would you state the developer should deviate from their policy and authorize such actions?


Let the game content be fun, not stupid, and anyone who takes personal status over in-game enjoyment can line SE's coffers without being a scapegoat for the stupidity of the FFXI development program. Ok this just seems outright offensive... I'm not sure where your comment is going or its purpose but calling game content stupid and referring to the FFXI development program as stupid... wouldn't it just be easier, as a subscriber, to cancel your subscription instead of going to these lengths to communicate or make a point that appears to be borderline degrading?

Just sayin'...

[FrankReynolds]

Ok, I can appreciate that... its the rest of your post that I take issue with... so let me begin.



Opinion: Noted. You apparently appear to be saying that other SPs are less useful; that is ok... your opinion, as stated, is noted.



I have not idea what you are referring to here... what "borked" end-game... what are you talking about?

By what standard is this "abuse" occurring, is this based on an known evidence you can provide to support this statement. Have the developers stated that Embrava and PD are abused by the player base? Please provide such statements or comments if they were made by the development team.

**Ahhh, a breath of fresh air in this post---something based on your actual gameplay experience... I only wish more of this post was so enlightened.

Hmm, what are you trying to say here? You mention that there's a "problem" with the abilities Embrava and PD, but you fail to state what the actual problem is...

Is this an opinion? I cannot help but "assume" it is... please provide at least one post, from the developers that state FFXI was engineered for the elitists of the world... since you stated "If FFXI should be engineered for elitists..." I'm assuming you have some evidence to support this statement, so that I can make some sense of the rest of it.

Your comment referencing purchasing "leet gear" with real money--isn't that in the Terms of Service of the game as a violation worth being banned over? If so, why would you state the developer should deviate from their policy and authorize such actions?

Ok this just seems outright offensive... I'm not sure where your comment is going or its purpose but calling game content stupid and referring to the FFXI development program as stupid... wouldn't it just be easier, as a subscriber, to cancel your subscription instead of going to these lengths to communicate or make a point that appears to be borderline degrading?

Just sayin'...

I'm not sure if you are intentionally being obtuse or you just don't get it, but she/he was right on every count.

[Byrth]

A JP post made this morning says that there won't be any more buff locking.

Primary Source: http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/threads/28916-%E4%B8%AD%E9%96%93%E5%A0%B1%E5%91%8A%EF%BD%9E%E3%81%8A%E5%BE%85%E3%81%9F%E3%81%9B%E3%81%97%E3%81%A6%E3%81%99%E3%81%BF%E3%81%BE%E3%81%9B%E3%82%93%EF%BD%9E?p=383753#post383753

Secondary (translated) Source: http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/112776-Dev-Tracker-Findings-Posts-%28NO-DISCUSSION%29?p=5501269&viewfull=1#post5501269

[Caketime]

A JP post made this morning says that there won't be any more buff locking.

Excellent.

[ManaKing]

Merry Christmas!

[Camate]

As was mentioned yesterday, here is a full explanation from Producer Akihiko Matsui about the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava.



Greetings everyone, Matsui here.

I’d like to explain the background as well as the future plans involving the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava.

There may be some areas that are lacking in detail, but I’d appreciate it if you could read through the entire post.

Pros and Cons of Adjustment and Timing
In the midst of my efforts to catch up on the two years that I’d missed, this was the first thing I took notice of. I was apprehensive that this would become a situation following in the footsteps of Utsusemi, so I spoke to the development and operations team and made a quick decision to make these adjustments knowing that there was little time.

While the development and operation team members understood this and agreed with me, we were unable to properly convey our thoughts on the forum, and since this work was taking place in the middle of our already limited time, I would like to apologize to all of you for causing concern.

This is linked to the canceling out of any other battle strategy decisions, and also looking ahead to the development work for the jobs and content that are to be implemented in Seekers of Adoulin, I believe that these adjustments are necessary. (Especially for Embrava.)

Can’t you just strengthen the other special abilities without weakening Perfect Defense and Embrava?
When comparing these to other special abilities, they have such extensive effects that I do not think it would be realistic to adjust all of the special abilities to match them.

Also, in the case that we were to create content and monsters with the current Perfect Defense and Embrava in existence, it would result in brute-force behavior that nullifies or erases these abilities, so scholar and summoner’s position in the battlefield would not remain the same as it is.

There is a difference between only having content and enemies that can be enjoyed by dealing huge amounts of damage with continuous weapon skills, versus having this type of content and enemies as well as other content and enemies.

Are you getting rid of all battle strategies that are advantageous for players?
Regardless of whether it is advantageous or disadvantageous, as long as we feel there is a balance-related problem we will make adjustments. The big issue I see is that we are weakening these abilities despite the fact that it has been around for such a long time untouched.

I really understand everyone’s feelings, and that you hate this since you all did your best and endured hardships leveling up and gathering equipment. Not everything we do is perfect, so when we make a mistake we would like to rectify it and we promise to make the adjustments and fixes right away.

What about the content adjustments? Are you not going to do anything?
In addition to the reasons above, I understand that many feel that if the current adjustment plans are implemented, then they will no longer be able to clear content, so they do not want it implemented.

This is related to the intrinsic problem that the necessary content is not reaching the necessary people. However, since a complete short-term solution is difficult, whether it is the addition of new content or the adjusting of existing content, we will implement them in phases.

Why the delay?
There are three reasons.

Lack of communication
By implementing these adjustments, the content that can be enjoyed by players coming in after the fact will be lost
The impact from other adjustments would be large


In regards to the first reason, I feel we need to continue to improve this and time to do so is necessary.

In regards to the second reason, while I feel that providing new content and in-depth adjustments is the ideal route to go, this would be at minimum the next version update (the one after the December version update), so we decided to implement only the content adjustments ahead of time.

However, for the new salvage only, we will be addressing it slightly irregularly by making it so that the effect of Embrava becomes what was planned for adjustment. While the new salvage was not balanced on the basis of Embrava, if it can be used as-is, then battle strategies will be formulated based on its use. There were quite a few posts that were concerned about how the adjustments would affect the new salvage, and many were commenting that the implementation should be pushed back. However, since pushing back implementation would reduce the amount of content that could be played we decided to adopt this method of adjustment.

In regards to the third reason, this is the first time mentioning this, but we will be fixing the bug where ability effect duration timers can be stopped when talking to NPCs since QA testing has concluded as of yesterday and implementation is now possible.

This was originally a counter-measure to prevent being killed while in a cutscene, but it was utilized in a different way and by allowing this it would completely eliminate the meaning behind abilities with strong effects in exchange for short effect durations. Additionally, similar to the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava, with development work continuing on Seekers of Adoulin, we decided it was necessary at this point in time to fix this.

In closing
I’m sorry that we’ve been so wary about posting on the forum until now.

Also, since yesterday’s post, I started seeing comments to hurry up and make the adjustments, and I once again feel that adjustments that everyone agrees on are difficult.

In addition to the development and operations team and I increasing our efforts to understand both individual players and everyone as a whole, we will be making adjustments as necessary and appearing on the forums more. Thank you all very much.

[Hashmalum]

In regards to the third reason, this is the first time mentioning this, but we will be fixing the bug where ability effect duration timers can be stopped when talking to NPCs since QA testing has concluded as of yesterday and implementation is now possible.

This was originally a counter-measure to prevent being killed while in a cutscene, but it was utilized in a different way and by allowing this it would completely eliminate the meaning behind abilities with strong effects in exchange for short effect durations. Additionally, similar to the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava, with development work continuing on Seekers of Adoulin, we decided it was necessary at this point in time to fix this.So as long as you are messing with the interaction between menu stuff and the rest of the game, could you get rid of "Event skipped." already?

[SpankWustler]

Wow, that's...an actual explanation. It has consistent internal logic and explains stuff in detail. It looks like it took some time to put together.

Seriously, thanks.

[Mayoyama]

we will be fixing the bug where ability effect duration timers can be stopped when talking to NPCs since QA testing has concluded as of yesterday and implementation is now possible.Will this include the freezing of brews in abyssea, or only apply specifically to abilities? I mean... its hard enough to get cruor as it is, with voidwatch having died down (after the blinker nerf) and xp parties these days are generally half full on shiva (and full of fresh-off-the-GOV-Bookburnt rack so take 5 min to kill a worm with their lv50 cap skills) since the majority of people already have most jobs to 99

[Babekeke]

This is linked to the canceling out of any other battle strategy decisions, and also looking ahead to the development work for the jobs and content that are to be implemented in Seekers of Adoulin, I believe that these adjustments are necessary. (Especially for Embrava.)

This stinks of 'RNF/GEO are getting buffs similar to these, so current jobs have to lose them'.

[Malthar]

Thank you, producer Akihiko Matsui for the detailed post. Bust once again I must ask that you address the potential of us, the player base, contributing to the coding effort. Most of us are adept developers and would enjoy the opportunity to contribute to the advancement of our favorite game.

[FrankReynolds]

Thank you, producer Akihiko Matsui for the detailed post. Bust once again I must ask that you address the potential of us, the player base, contributing to the coding effort. Most of us are adept developers and would enjoy the opportunity to contribute to the advancement of our favorite game.

No, most of us are not adept developers (or even slightly experienced for that matter). A few are and likely none of them speak Japanese. Not that I wouldn't love to see some of the cool stuff that the community comes up with make it's way into the game, but I don't think you realize how many hurdles there are in the way of that happening.

[Vivivivi]

What I am hearing is that there will be more of an emphasis on battle strategies for new and old content, where brute force "zerg" style strategies previously worked. So long as the development team is committed to continually adjusting game content appropriately while weakening things like perfect defense and embrava, I am very ok with that.

[Vivivivi]

Will this include the freezing of brews in abyssea, or only apply specifically to abilities? I mean... its hard enough to get cruor as it is, with voidwatch having died down (after the blinker nerf) and xp parties these days are generally half full on shiva (and full of fresh-off-the-GOV-Bookburnt rack so take 5 min to kill a worm with their lv50 cap skills) since the majority of people already have most jobs to 99

I would also like to know the answer to this. IF brews will loose the ability of being "locked", would it be possible to have their duration increased or some similar trade-off?

[Alhanelem]

In regards to the recent dev post-

I think I'm probably speaking for a lot of people when I say that something of a nerf to Perfect Defense and Embrava is necessary. However, the reason people are complaining is that the adjustments are too heavy-handed and result in these abilities coming close to not being useful at all.

for instance:

I can accept a reduction in Perfect Defense duration to 60 seconds; what I can't accept is the additional requirement of needing an unachieveable amount of summoning magic skill to get that duration.

For Embrava, I'd be fine with weakening the effect a bit ore reducing the duration; but changing an effect that people want and consider useful to an effect that few if any people consider useful basically destroys the spell entirely. Instead of changing the TP recovery to MP recovery, it should simply give a smaller amount of TP recovery.

[Genoxd]

I would like to point out something the development team might not be considering: Mages. As a SMN with Hvergelmir I actually love Embrava for the Regain effect, it gives me the chance to put to use a weapon I worked hard to get. I use it constantly in Legion and ADL, right after I pop Perfect Defense I use Myrkr and get enough MP back to continue dealing damage and using Shock Squall. I understand MP recovery from the new Embrava realistically will accomplish the same goal (getting MP back over time) however Myrkr gives me the control over when I want that MP and allows me to utilize a weapon I worked hard to get. That being said, I don't think Regain is the reason Embrava is considered overpowered and I would request that regain stay.

[Mefuki]

I can't stand when this statement is repeated. Embrava and PD are overpowered only in comparison to other, less useful SPs. Embrava and PD are in no way overpowered in comparison to the borked end-game.

But do you really think that the way to fix endgame is for a job to have an ability that grants an undispelable, 90 second buff to an entire party's defences that make all attacks and status effects do nothing? Edit: (Yes, I realize Perfect Defence degrades over time but there's still the issue of it being relied on by the majority of players, which facilitated some of the problems we're facing currently. I.E. ADL being balanced around PD.)


Yes, they are abused. I have been in many a Provenance shout group that relies on Embrava during the Cat fights because the DDs are garbage. But the problem with Embrava and PD is not how powerful it is. The problem with these abilities is how even with these supposedly "overpowered", game-breaking abilities, the end-game scene still relies on a strike of luck against "fack you" monster abilities with no other significant form of mitigation.

Well, why do you think that is? One of the few things Perfect Defence doesn't protect against is Death. And now look at some newer monster that were released. Death Prophet is conal Death. Monsters spam TP attacks in an attempt to catch the player in-between moments of complete invulnerability. If by "no other significant form of mitigation", you mean give all the jobs equally broken SP, that kind of endgame can't sustain itself for long. At that point, picking which jobs to take is just a matter of looking at their SPs. And I for one don't want a game that only cares about one singular job ability of the many we get.

[Behemothx]

In regards to the recent dev post-

I think I'm probably speaking for a lot of people when I say that something of a nerf to Perfect Defense and Embrava is necessary. However, the reason people are complaining is that the adjustments are too heavy-handed and result in these abilities coming close to not being useful at all.

for instance:

I can accept a reduction in Perfect Defense duration to 60 seconds; what I can't accept is the additional requirement of needing an unachieveable amount of summoning magic skill to get that duration.

For Embrava, I'd be fine with weakening the effect a bit ore reducing the duration; but changing an effect that people want and consider useful to an effect that few if any people consider useful basically destroys the spell entirely. Instead of changing the TP recovery to MP recovery, it should simply give a smaller amount of TP recovery.

Agreed. I don't see why anyone would need refresh off Embrava, just reduce TP to 2 ticks, hell even 1 would be better than refresh...

[Smokenttp]

In regards to the recent dev post-

I think I'm probably speaking for a lot of people when I say that something of a nerf to Perfect Defense and Embrava is necessary. However, the reason people are complaining is that the adjustments are too heavy-handed and result in these abilities coming close to not being useful at all.

for instance:

I can accept a reduction in Perfect Defense duration to 60 seconds; what I can't accept is the additional requirement of needing an unachieveable amount of summoning magic skill to get that duration.

For Embrava, I'd be fine with weakening the effect a bit ore reducing the duration; but changing an effect that people want and consider useful to an effect that few if any people consider useful basically destroys the spell entirely. Instead of changing the TP recovery to MP recovery, it should simply give a smaller amount of TP recovery.

Comunity team please translate this

[Sephiran]

Mr. Matsui, please tell me that we'll still be able to do Nyzul Uncharted with a reasonable expectation of success once these adjustments are implemented. My group is out right now and I think I may miss out on this opportunity to get a Phorcys armor set. There will still be more chances, right? And what about everyone else who may miss this opportunity?

[FrankReynolds]

But do you really think that the way to fix endgame is for a job to have an ability that grants an undispelable, 90 second buff to an entire party's defences that make all attacks and status effects do nothing?

Well, why do you think that is? One of the few things Perfect Defence doesn't protect against is Death. And now look at some newer monster that were released. Death Prophet is conal Death. Monsters spam TP attacks in an attempt to catch the player in-between moments of complete invulnerability. If by "no other significant form of mitigation", you mean give all the jobs equally broken SP, that kind of endgame can't sustain itself for long. At that point, picking which jobs to take is just a matter of looking at their SPs. And I for one don't want a game that only cares about one singular job ability of the many we get.

I think the point was that you can't just adjust one thing and not the other. If you nerf the abilities, then all the stuff you made before that becomes incredibly difficult. If you Nerf the content then it becomes too easy for any group that has said abilities at hand.

The problem is that this is SE we are dealing with, so they are just gonna do the abilities since they require less work and call it a day. The end effect is that everything is still imbalanced, only now the customers are pissed off instead of just being mildly depressed.

TLDR; The content and the abilities must be adjusted at the same time or everyone loses.

[Xantavia]

Agreed. I don't see why anyone would need refresh off Embrava, just reduce TP to 2 ticks, hell even 1 would be better than refresh...
Good news. The sch can give you 1/tic regain along with the refresh effect. Just takes a few more charges.

[Alhanelem]

Good news. The sch can give you 1/tic regain along with the refresh effect. Just takes a few more charges.
Those effects stack don't they? So the good news is that having the 1TP regain spell shouldn't preclude embrava from having TP instead of mp recovery.

[Glamdring]

the biggest part I like in the new boss' post is the comments about adjusting strategies because it leads me to believe there is a concerted effort to get those jobs currently on the scrap heap back into the mix of end game content. That being said, the job I'm still worried about is red mage. Almost everything rdm can do another job can do better. Now, despite the fact I pride myself on being an idea man, particularily with unconventional thinking, I just can't conceive of a way to breath life into rdm without taking it from one of the other jobs, and believe me, i've tried. Tier 5 nukes-scholar and blm may get the axe, higher cures/regen/group buffing-whm and sch (possibly even brd) may get the axe, increased melee damage-blu may go and pld has just recently gotten back into the discussion in a limited way, they may be gone, damage resistance/tanking-seems to impact rune as it has been described, and maybe nin or dnc

guess what I'm asking for is some idea of how that might be addressed. it's a problem for everyone, and you have a LARGE player base with at least some understanding of game mechanics. if you can bring what you have so far to the table maybe we can help you guys brainstorm a bit? judging by the activity in the rdm forum there are plenty of us willing as well. Now, I'm not a rdm (despite having a 99, it's really just there to skill magic), but I've been in tons of parties and seen many different niches that need to be filled. The best way to fill those varies dependent upon what jobs are available. The strength of rdm was that it could fill so many of those niches, but with the advent of scholar also being able to multi-role while nuking harder and curing better + AoE buffs, rdm's role as a gap filler just flat out died. so it needs another task that people will conceivably want-but without killing scholar.

So I guess what i'm saying is that if you are committed to 2-way communication, let's give it a shot and see where this goes!

[Karbuncle]

90 second buff to an entire party's defences that make all attacks and status effects do nothing?

Have you even used Perfect Defense...? bgt doesn't make you invulnerable, Just highly resistant. You're still very capable of being killed with PD up... Even a lot of debuffs do get through it, Including the most annoying ones like Terror, Death, Dispel, and Doom.

The first ~15-20 Seconds of Perfect Defense, You do take heavily resisted damage, But after that You can and will die if not cured or provided support.

I admit it needs and Adjustment, But whats happening to it now is flat out unreasonable. The HIghest possible duration is 2/3rd of its current duration and is at this time, unobtainable... They could have just nerfed the Duration to 45~60(Depending on necessary level of Balance) Seconds and kept everything else the same. Using Summoning Magic skill, While Clever, Just hurts more SMNs than it helps. I personally am sitting at 460 Skill after Gear, But I'm still far from capped...

I like the idea they're nerfing these abilities so that they don't have to rely on balancing content around them in the future, But at the same time, removing 10% of a mobs HP Isn't exactly adjusting the content enough to become beatable without use of these methods.

I mean a lot of stuff is still beatable without PD/Embrava, even though its a popular strategy, but some content is so eyerippingly annoying without it that people needing said event would almost never find help for it. Mostly this is in regards to ADL, Which has Terrible drops and is luck reliant and annoying as is.

... Ugh, I've gotten all Rant-y. Long story short, I like the Idea of what they're doing to this, But at the same time, their 'Adjusting current content' needs to be a bit more significant since some of the content (ADL) seems to have been designed entirely around using PD.

Edit: I also hope he seriously considers without these ABilities, Jobs like SMN and SCH are not RDM-Tier in terms of usefulness. I.E No one will remember the job exists.

[Byrth]

Honestly, if they implemented the patch exactly as stated:
1) ADL win rates would drop a little.
2) Nyzul win rates would probably go up because they're overnerfing it.
3) Legion would be slightly more painful (one more bard swap) but not really that different. I can do one more bard swap if you give monsters 10% less HP.
4) Provenance would be slightly more annoying, in that you'd need better DDs to win the zerg because you have to eat 2 Marches.
5) AV would get slightly more annoying
6) Pandemonium Warden's final form would get a little more annoying

Other than those, there are pretty much no cases where PD and Embrava are used strategically at the moment. Embrava is certainly used in a lot of situations because it's convenient (a lot of healing, a lot of haste, and you don't even have to be using a dualbox), but that's exactly what SE is okay with eliminating. Similarly, I bring a SMN character to Tier 3 Einherjar because doing the bosses with PD is just easier. SE is probably fine with me not being able to abuse that anymore.

Long story short, I don't think the nerf/buffs proposed are really that destructive.

[Babekeke]

Honestly, if they implemented the patch exactly as stated:
1) ADL win rates would drop a little.
2) Nyzul win rates would probably go up because they're overnerfing it.
3) Legion would be slightly more painful (one more bard swap) but not really that different. I can do one more bard swap if you give monsters 10% less HP.
4) Provenance would be slightly more annoying, in that you'd need better DDs to win the zerg because you have to eat 2 Marches.
5) AV would get slightly more annoying
6) Pandemonium Warden's final form would get a little more annoying

Other than those, there are pretty much no cases where PD and Embrava are used strategically at the moment. Embrava is certainly used in a lot of situations because it's convenient (a lot of healing, a lot of haste, and you don't even have to be using a dualbox), but that's exactly what SE is okay with eliminating. Similarly, I bring a SMN character to Tier 3 Einherjar because doing the bosses with PD is just easier. SE is probably fine with me not being able to abuse that anymore.

Long story short, I don't think the nerf/buffs proposed are really that destructive.

The biggest nerf of all is buffs no longer being lockable, making the brd rotations a bitch.

As for needing better DDs since you need to eat 2 marches in prov, alternatively, use a 99 daur brd and pickup brd, or 2 x 90~95 daur brds.

[Monchat]

singing 4 songs is long you know. especially if you want good songs ie you have to overwrite DDB songs with +3 instruments, takes at least 1 minute.

[saevel]

Honestly, if they implemented the patch exactly as stated:
1) ADL win rates would drop a little.
2) Nyzul win rates would probably go up because they're overnerfing it.
3) Legion would be slightly more painful (one more bard swap) but not really that different. I can do one more bard swap if you give monsters 10% less HP.
4) Provenance would be slightly more annoying, in that you'd need better DDs to win the zerg because you have to eat 2 Marches.
5) AV would get slightly more annoying
6) Pandemonium Warden's final form would get a little more annoying

Other than those, there are pretty much no cases where PD and Embrava are used strategically at the moment. Embrava is certainly used in a lot of situations because it's convenient (a lot of healing, a lot of haste, and you don't even have to be using a dualbox), but that's exactly what SE is okay with eliminating. Similarly, I bring a SMN character to Tier 3 Einherjar because doing the bosses with PD is just easier. SE is probably fine with me not being able to abuse that anymore.

Long story short, I don't think the nerf/buffs proposed are really that destructive.

BS on that first one. It's a 50/50 chance of you picking the right one when it splits and without PD the chances of killing the 2nd clone are pretty low. That's amusing you even survived the initial double 30foot oblivion smash's and that everyone isn't afflicted by a high potency paralyze. Win rates going to drop a lot, it won't by any means be impossible but it will be FAR more then "a little".

[Byrth]

BS on that first one. It's a 50/50 chance of you picking the right one when it splits and without PD the chances of killing the 2nd clone are pretty low. That's amusing you even survived the initial double 30foot oblivion smash's and that everyone isn't afflicted by a high potency paralyze. Win rates going to drop a lot, it won't by any means be impossible but it will be FAR more then "a little".

Many of the groups that lowman ADL at the moment (which are the major source of marrows) are only realistically capable of killing one of the two clones post-split. It doesn't take them 90 seconds to do that. Additionally, this is being implemented (we assume) in the same patch as chainspell shock squalls. I think people will still kill one of the two clones, but some groups that are managing to kill both at the moment will only kill one now.

So some fraction of the total marrow supplier pool will drop from a 100% win rate to a 50% win rate, some will stay at a 50% win rate, and some will stay at a 100% win rate. I don't think it's going to affect the price of marrows that much in the end.

[Yinnyth]

The WS after split is instant, so if he wants to hit you with oblivion smash's paralyze, you ain't stunning that regardless of chainsquall. Speaking from experience, the paralyze from oblivion smash has an unfair proc rate.

[Byrth]

The new SP ability and PD aren't exclusive, and the new SP ability refills your MP.

PD -> 57 seconds of damage/status resistance with a good build
New SP -> 30 seconds of shock squalls

So the split isn't an issue because you'll still have PD up. Just start summoning Alex after the pop and you'll kill one clone every time for sure.

[saevel]

The new SP ability and PD aren't exclusive, and the new SP ability refills your MP.

PD -> 57 seconds of damage/status resistance with a good build
New SP -> 30 seconds of shock squalls

So the split isn't an issue because you'll still have PD up. Just start summoning Alex after the pop and you'll kill one clone every time for sure.


We can kill one clone without PD, double oblivion smash sucks hard core but it's not enough to wipe you. The problem comes after the first one dies and you got to kill the second. By then you've taken more damage and there is a very good chance it'll get one move off before you squall it at 25~30%, if that move is an oblivion smash then it's game over as your SMN's just died meaning no squall so no stun during it's implosion middle finger phase. Between 60 and 25% HP ADL really REALLY likes to use O smash. If you stun the second clone when you engage then it'll wear under 25% and again big middle finger time. I don't know where you get 57s unless your piling on every scrap of summoning magic skill that's around now, I figured between 52~55 will be what you can expect. That's not the full story though, right now PD lasts 45s then starts to deteriorate rapidly for the next 45s. Under the "new" system it would be 30s of near immunity where it then rapidly deteriorates. Honestly your looking at only 40~45s of real protection, gotta time it really tight if you want it to last through the second clone. His damn summoning animation then the re-engagement time is just a huge PD time sink.

[Zamms]

We have killed ADL with 4 clones out and no PD, obviously your DD are terrible. When we do ADL we have mythic drk, mythic drg, mythic sam, relic/empy brd and a mythic whm. It is not as bad as you think, try switching into pdt set when it is starting to split take alot less damage, and yes shadow mantle can proc and take 0 damage. As for Prov who needs PD and embrava on it, rotate stuns on it and it wont cast spells the fight is easy., AV is even easier with 99 Aegis PLD can live thru chainspell meteor and take next to nothing in damage, instead of zerging it you can just melee kill and have pld hold if it goes bad. Yes we use embrava and PD but it is mainly to kill ADL and Legion fast so we can do mutiple runs, but we can do multiple runs without them just takes more prep time. Instead of us doing 3-5 waves of Mul will only be able to do 3 and possibly half of 4th.

[Rezeak]

We have killed ADL with 4 clones out and no PD, obviously your DD are terrible. When we do ADL we have mythic drk, mythic drg, mythic sam, relic/empy brd and a mythic whm.

Man i saw a ls hack the other day cause they had no mythics and killed ADL. Really ADL is either about stunning or perfect defense.

btw i do find weird that pple forget SE said that the new 2hrs will be on separate recasts meaning 57 secs of PD followed by 30 secs of Chain shock squall ^^

[Mirage]

Additionally, with the reduction of cooldown to 1 hour, two summoners can do four new-duration PDs instead of two old-duration PDs during one single Dynamis run, as long as you have one pop set ready after less than an hour of entering.

[Llana_Virren]

If by "no other significant form of mitigation", you mean give all the jobs equally broken SP....

Logical fallacy.

By "no other mitigation" I mean that end-game content needs to be adjusted so that the abuse of an overpowered SP is not an essential element of strategy for the majority of players. Reducing the potency of Embrava and PD is not meant to align them to the other SPs. It has been clearly defined by the developers (via proxy translation by the community reps) that the Devs believe that players are too successful at end-game content and that we were not supposed to be winning as much as we are.

Fix the "I win" button in the endgame simultaneously with adjusting PD and Embrava. 10% drop in HP is not sufficient.

[Llana_Virren]

Many of the groups that lowman ADL at the moment (which are the major source of marrows) are only realistically capable of killing one of the two clones post-split. It doesn't take them 90 seconds to do that. Additionally, this is being implemented (we assume) in the same patch as chainspell shock squalls. I think people will still kill one of the two clones, but some groups that are managing to kill both at the moment will only kill one now.

So some fraction of the total marrow supplier pool will drop from a 100% win rate to a 50% win rate, some will stay at a 50% win rate, and some will stay at a 100% win rate. I don't think it's going to affect the price of marrows that much in the end.

The primary source of supply for marrows are LS-wide fights, not a low-man party. And, consequences considered, if the influx of marrows to economy was reduced 50% (which I think is a generous assumption), you will most certainly see a raise in prices. I would estimate based on Lakshmi that the price will ascent to ~20M per at its peak.

[Llana_Virren]

We have killed ADL with 4 clones out and no PD, obviously your DD are terrible.

Beating it down to sub-40% HP, it splitting, and then stunlocking it and killing the correct one first is not a winning strategy over using PD. It's luck. Players confuse luck for skill all the time.

[saevel]

Beating it down to sub-40% HP, it splitting, and then stunlocking it and killing the correct one first is not a winning strategy over using PD. It's luck. Players confuse luck for skill all the time.

Honestly he was just trolling everyone here, probably to get a laugh for the media forums.

ADL splitting that low and producing four copied would mean four instant TP moves. At that low HP he has access to Tera Slash and if it split into four then it has access to implosion. So a combination of Oblivion Smash, Tera Slash and Implosion went off simultaneously, yeah it's pretty much game over.

I'm willing to bet he doesn't even do ADL as he mentioned DD's. Anyone who's fought ADL knows he's weak as a wet paper bag defensibly. Toss a few buffs around and ensure your DD's are riding capped magic haste and two to three DD's can tear ADL in half, it's his cheesy move spammage that you have to deal with. You actually don't want to kill him to fast at first so you end up holding back a bit.

[Cowardlybabooon]

Honestly, if they implemented the patch exactly as stated:
1) ADL win rates would drop a little.
2) Nyzul win rates would probably go up because they're overnerfing it.
3) Legion would be slightly more painful (one more bard swap) but not really that different. I can do one more bard swap if you give monsters 10% less HP.
4) Provenance would be slightly more annoying, in that you'd need better DDs to win the zerg because you have to eat 2 Marches.
5) AV would get slightly more annoying
6) Pandemonium Warden's final form would get a little more annoying

Other than those, there are pretty much no cases where PD and Embrava are used strategically at the moment. Embrava is certainly used in a lot of situations because it's convenient (a lot of healing, a lot of haste, and you don't even have to be using a dualbox), but that's exactly what SE is okay with eliminating. Similarly, I bring a SMN character to Tier 3 Einherjar because doing the bosses with PD is just easier. SE is probably fine with me not being able to abuse that anymore.

Long story short, I don't think the nerf/buffs proposed are really that destructive.

Totally agree with Byrth on this.

Directed at Matsui: Thanks for the excellent explanations. I appreciate you acknowledging how volatile the player base is these days and how easily they get pissed off at pretty much anything SE does. Myself being pretty happy with FFXI in general, I will say that these adjustments are actually much appreciated. I don't get excited at all every Saturday and Sunday when we go kill Arch Dynamis Lord as a linkshell 5-8 times in a run, never losing, and never having any complications. Granted that no matter what you do, we will continue to try to work toward a situation where we win all the time, I very much like the idea of taking away a zerg that is dependent on 1 or 2 abilities, and adding 20 new special abilities that we can experiment with for new strategies.

It appears that the people who are mad about this are being a bit short sighted, as we still haven't seen which of the new special abilities turns out to be accidentally overpowered and becomes our new go-to. Maybe it turns out that PUP automations with invincible will be holding the second ADL pop off to the side, or BSTs will be spamming call beast and holding them. These are examples, so don't spend too much time refuting my brainstorm here.

Lastly, my linkshell and most of my friend's linkshells who do ADL all split the gil from the marrows. If you currently win 8 times per run, and that drops to 4 times per run, the price of marrows will go up, the split will get bigger, and you can buy your marrows for your own relic with that money. If you're working on a relic and you're not in a linkshell that does ADL or some other massive gil making event, you might reconsider what you do with your time, or just deal with it and hang on to your 95 relic until you can solo dynamis enough times to buy them.

[Zamms]

Killing all 4 with no PD or embrava and not dieing should have been said by my 1st post

[Zamms]

Saevel research stuff before you say "I'm willing to bet he doesn't even do ADL as he mentioned DD's" I am always on mythic drg for dynamis.

[Mefuki]

Fix the "I win" button in the endgame simultaneously with adjusting PD and Embrava. 10% drop in HP is not sufficient.

So then we're in agreement. I was trying to point out that the adjustments that PD/Embrava are going to receive may not be as bad as some people here seem to be making them out to be. That the devs need to see the landscape of endgame without PD and Embrava reliance. People are upset about these adjustments despite the fact that we knew they were coming, that most of us wanted the adjustment and that for the health of the game was a needed one.

My point wasn't that endgame without PD and Embrava is balanced. It isn't, as far as I know. My point was that these adjustments will make these abilities a useful tool or boon rather then a (perceived?) necessity. PD is still 56 seconds (currently) of "PD" effect, Embrava is still +25% magic haste and +72HP regen. I think that's still pretty useful.

I agree events and monsters still need adjustments but they wouldn't have need of them to such a degree if they hadn't let things go like this for so long. These abilities began to be included in many player strategies, then SE started to adjust monsters around this very thing. Now look where we are. Abusing an overpowered SP will always be an essential element of strategy for the majority of players so long as that method exists.

It's my hope that the devs will be able to see how much needs balancing in a post PD/Embrava game. Which is one of the many reasons I'm pleased with Matsui's leadership so far. It's rather clever of him to do a test, of sorts, in Neo-salvage to determine how post-Embrava adjustments will effect things.

[FrankReynolds]

Saevel research stuff before you say "I'm willing to bet he doesn't even do ADL as he mentioned DD's" I am always on mythic drg for dynamis.

Nobody cares about your gear. You could all be dual wielding Mytyhic polearms and it wouldn't change the fact that he does instant TP moves that can wipe your whole group.

[Karbuncle]

someone with a few shiny weapons babbling about killing ADL with 4 clones out and absolutely no details whatsoever and not understanding what people are actually arguing, acting like he's king of all the worlds epeens? ... and he's Elvaan?!

Color me SHOCKED.

Oh wait, the opposite... Its so stereotypical it almost belongs in an 80's film.

Everyone knows ADL will still be killable, Its just the Luck Factor will be even more apparent because of this nerf. You now have essentially 30% less time to kill him than you did before, Probably cutting 1 Clone Kill out of the equation for good groups.

[Mirage]

but but guys, didn't you know? Ryunohige has additional effect: take no damage.

[saevel]

but but guys, didn't you know? Ryunohige has additional effect: take no damage.

Didn't know that, thought its AM gave you immunity to terror and ID.

[Mirage]

Obviously, it is both.

[Byrth]

If my group can kill both clones with 90 second PD right now, I have to imagine that we could kill both clones with twice as many people (an alliance) in the future even with only 55 second PD/30 seconds of shock squall. Alliances really should be unaffected by this change and should have a 100% win rate either way. It's lowman groups that will suffer, and mostly because they'll finally have to skill up their summoner mules and maybe even *gasp* play summoner when they're up for Alex.

I think you guys are overreacting.

[Vortex]

If my group can kill both clones with 90 second PD right now, I have to imagine that we could kill both clones with twice as many people (an alliance) in the future even with only 55 second PD/30 seconds of shock squall. Alliances really should be unaffected by this change and should have a 100% win rate either way. It's lowman groups that will suffer, and mostly because they'll finally have to skill up their summoner mules and maybe even *gasp* play summoner when they're up for Alex.

I think you guys are overreacting.

The problem is as old as this game is an unless you are in a solid LS, finding skilled groups to be able to do this are quite difficult.

And for years people have not cared about summoner, let alone enough to skill it up, only a hand full of people i even know actually took summoner seriously, so this will severly cripple most groups. and the die hard "come a real job" players will not ever bother leveling and working on smn to reach half the skill level needed.

But what SE does not seem to realize is that if we stop getting content with NMs and absurd TP moves people wouldn't need to depend on 1 trick ponies like embrava and PD. there is a difference between challenging and just plain unfair.

[Camiie]

Honestly, if they implemented the patch exactly as stated:
4) Provenance would be slightly more annoying, in that you'd need better DDs to win the zerg because you have to eat 2 Marches.

What exactly do you mean by better? Where's the line going to be drawn now? I guess I'm really posing that question to SE, not that they'd ever answer it. Are we supposed to have gotten all 1500 HMPs before we even set foot in Provenance? Are we supposed to have gone 5/5 or 15/15 from NNI as well? Does SE even think about such things? While I get that Provevance isn't the hardest thing in the game it's already somewhat exclusionary. How much more so will it become?

[Karbuncle]

If my group can kill both clones with 90 second PD right now, I have to imagine that we could kill both clones with twice as many people (an alliance) in the future even with only 55 second PD/30 seconds of shock squall. Alliances really should be unaffected by this change and should have a 100% win rate either way. It's lowman groups that will suffer, and mostly because they'll finally have to skill up their summoner mules and maybe even *gasp* play summoner when they're up for Alex.

I think you guys are overreacting.

>Everyone has Access to 17 People and Fully Skilled Summoners
>Everyone with a Relic is in a Linkshell with 18+ People.

On a serious note, No, I don't think anyones overreacting. Okay, well maybe some of them are, but not many. This PD Nerf is going to substantially hurt a lot of Relic owners chances of possessing a relic, Simply because with 90 second PD, They at least had that margin of error since, lets face it, its kinda needed today since most people left in this game are pants on head retarded.

Those 8-10 Man groups killing ADL probably go with 8-10 because they only have 8-10 people.

With this new 56s(max) time, Its going to cut the room for error down, and the luck factor is going to play a bigger part. 100% Win rate is, while not impossible, unlikely now and after PD Nerf due to things like "Wrong clone? Here, Let me summon 3 more", and "Oh you killed that did you? Have a InstaDeath Smash to half your group". There are just too many factors to allow 100% win rate with consistency... Very high win rate? Yes, the group i go with happens to have a superb win rate, and I don't quite think it'll drop SIGNIFICANTLY, but i can see it dropping, Considering I know for a fact most of my LS's summoners are underskilled... Me and i think 2 others have been working on capping it... (Personally I've been trying to cap it since 99 cap came around).

So, while some groups will just up their participation, others don't have this courtesy, and those who relied on shouts because they have no Linkshell what with most/all good Linkshells either gone or not recruiting anymore, or those who buy their marrows, Will be harmed by this. Enough to completely stop them from trying? No, Probably not, But enough that its going to hinder a lot of relics owners chances at a 99 relic more than it should, considering the already difficult nature of the quest for most players.

And I can't even blame the players at this point, Linkshell events were dead for a long time, and most LS died with it. Now most if not everything is either done low-man or through shouts... and ADL, (And legion) just throw a monkey wrench into the whole equation. I dumb lucked into a good Linkshell, But others aren't so lucky.

Also, If it hinders it enough, Some of those 8-10 man(or lower) Groups who farmed it for gil might stop, or raise the prices, lowering the potential 99's overall because of it. Its speculation at this point, But there are some groups who farm ADL to sell the Marrows, With this update it may become too Luck-factored to bother due to the decreased time to kill.

Taking 34 Seconds off a 90s ability is quite significant... Especially when it has a decay effect.

So uh, yah, Maybe some of them are overreacting like its the end of the world, But its far from a non-issue for the majority of groups out there... Just because some, including me, are lucky enough to be in one of the few remaining linkshells that don't suck, doesn't mean we all are Byrth. I know its hard to be subjective but try thinking about the common man sometimes, Yah?

[Byrth]

My group is 5 melee and a THF mule along with support-job mules that aren't in alliance and one summoner that is. What I meant was:
If my 6-person group can kill with 90 second PD now

->


The primary source of supply for marrows are LS-wide fights, not a low-man party.

->

Hopefully an alliance with twice as many DDs can still kill it with less PD if they're the primary source.

[Karbuncle]

My group is 5 melee and a THF mule along with support-job mules that aren't in alliance and one summoner that is. What I meant was:
If my 6-person group can kill with 90 second PD now

->



->

Hopefully an alliance with twice as many DDs can still kill it with less PD if they're the primary source.

Your group is probably exceptionally skilled. You can say "5 DD+ THF", But in reality, Mules or not, You likely have close to 8-9 People, INcluding the SMN, BRD, COR, etc. So realistically you'll need at least 6-9 people regardless for an acceptable win rate, as it stands now pre-nerf.

Still, I see what you're saying in the fact it would be easy for an Alliance to handle, And it would, But, Somewhere in my rant i mentioned not everyone has access to 17 other like minded, Non Pants-On-Head retarded individuals, Which is who will be damaged most, and... despite our luck, These players are the common majority, and if they're hurt, we're hurt, Because subscription fees from us only go so far.

Also, While the biggest(possible?Speculation?) Supplier of Marrows may be 18 Man groups, There are still a good selection of low man Suppliers... This will only cause to lower supply, and raise prices on Marrows. While good for sellers, Hurts buyers.

Its a lot of pros and cons, and its far from impossible or difficult, Its just going to hurt the common man a lot more, Once again. I'm not talking about the pants on head tards, I'm talking about the guy who got a Relic, has the sense to try and 99 it, But is SoL out of a LS Because all the good ones are done recruiting or dead... So his methods become Shout for an Alliance, or Farm Gil for Marrows, Both of which will be hampered by this. Either by Increasing Prices and Less Stock, or by the fact Pick up groups now have a significantly less margin of error.

(There are actually some Pick up ADLs, Shocking but it happens >>)

Again, Just because we can say words like, "Get 18 Good people", or "Fully Skilled/Gear Summoners", Doesn't mean these things exist easily or realistically for many players, Its a sad reality of the game right now... Those people are either in closed Linkshells, Unwilling to help, Or don't exist.

While this is to an extent the Players fault for closing themselves off, as a designer, you need to take into account most players are pricks who only want to help themselves, or absolutely retarded, So while the player going for the 99 Relic might be a good player, the idiots he has to surround himself with in order to tackle an enemy like ADL will weigh him down, and with this nerf, Sink him into the fking grave.

[Camate]

Greetings!

There seemed to be some confusion over on the Japanese forum about whether or not the Perfect Defense and Embrava adjustments will be implemented in the future. Sorry if there were mixed messages, but while they have been postponed from the December version update, we will be implementing them eventually. However, this doesn’t mean that once we implement them that we will not touch them again. This goes for content as well, but we will continue to look at conditions after implementation.

[saevel]

If my group can kill both clones with 90 second PD right now, I have to imagine that we could kill both clones with twice as many people (an alliance) in the future even with only 55 second PD/30 seconds of shock squall. Alliances really should be unaffected by this change and should have a 100% win rate either way. It's lowman groups that will suffer, and mostly because they'll finally have to skill up their summoner mules and maybe even *gasp* play summoner when they're up for Alex.

I think you guys are overreacting.

Doesn't work that way, you don't have 90s you have 45s with a tapering 45s. Now you will have 30s with a tapering 20~25s.

You damage output doesn't matter and is something I've been trying to hammer into peoples heads. Alliances kill the same way low man groups do using the same strategy and same methods. The only difference is "LS groups" bring more pop sets, more SMN's and more COP mules to reset those SMN's 2hr. You damage done not double going from a low man group to an alliance, and honestly it doesn't change at all as any DD's in the "off party" won't have COR rolls / BRD songs and so forth.

There is a time delay when it summons where you can be doing 99,999 per hit and it won't matter. After that everyone (except main assist) gets disengaged and has to spam their assist macro and wait to draw their weapon again. Those combined knocks a good chunk off of that 30s of protection.

Win rates will plummet as the ability to kill the second clone goes down. It'll require a much tighter timing of PD and squall and hoping your SMN's don't get obliterated by a stray TP move.

[Llana_Virren]

So then we're in agreement. I was trying to point out that the adjustments that PD/Embrava are going to receive may not be as bad as some people here seem to be making them out to be. That the devs need to see the landscape of endgame without PD and Embrava reliance. People are upset about these adjustments despite the fact that we knew they were coming, that most of us wanted the adjustment and that for the health of the game was a needed one.

My point wasn't that endgame without PD and Embrava is balanced. It isn't, as far as I know. My point was that these adjustments will make these abilities a useful tool or boon rather then a (perceived?) necessity. PD is still 56 seconds (currently) of "PD" effect, Embrava is still +25% magic haste and +72HP regen. I think that's still pretty useful.

I agree events and monsters still need adjustments but they wouldn't have need of them to such a degree if they hadn't let things go like this for so long. These abilities began to be included in many player strategies, then SE started to adjust monsters around this very thing. Now look where we are. Abusing an overpowered SP will always be an essential element of strategy for the majority of players so long as that method exists.

It's my hope that the devs will be able to see how much needs balancing in a post PD/Embrava game. Which is one of the many reasons I'm pleased with Matsui's leadership so far. It's rather clever of him to do a test, of sorts, in Neo-salvage to determine how post-Embrava adjustments will effect things.

The problem with the issue surrounding the "fix" (or Nerf) on Embrava and PD is that the goal is not to "balance" SPs. The goal is not to provide players with alternative winning methods. The goal is to reduce the success rate on events. This has been clearly stated by the Dev Team. It is the official stance of the developers that the content we are winning was not designed to be won by any more than 5-10% of the playerbase.

I cannot stress this enough: players need to stop assuming that the nerf on Embrava and PD is about balance. It is not. It is intended to artificially extend the life of the current end-game by hindering success.

[Mefuki]

Is that the only reason that there could be? You don't see the devs having issues with trying to create new and interesting content we'd like to do in a PD/Embrava world? Don't you think they'd have a difficult time making the game revolve around it? If all SE really wanted us to do was stop winning, they certainly wouldn't be adjusting content in the update while NOT applying the PD/Embrava adjustments.

[Raucent]

the idea of their "adjustment" ~10% less hp to compensate no Embrava /PD is hardly a fair balance when the intended targets still keep their board wiping abilities.

[FrankReynolds]

Is that the only reason that there could be? You don't see the devs having issues with trying to create new and interesting content we'd like to do in a PD/Embrava world? Don't you think they'd have a difficult time making the game revolve around it? If all SE really wanted us to do was stop winning, they certainly wouldn't be adjusting content in the update while NOT applying the PD/Embrava adjustments.

It's pretty much the reason's they stated. They are adjusting the older/current content because that's what they do after the l337 people have beat their heads against the wall for long enough. Not because it was too hard. This is their overall plan and it has never changed: Release stupid hard (read as mostly luck based nowadays) content ==> leave it hard until a large number of players have completed it despite the difficulty ==> lower the difficulty until even the Joe pinks have all finished it ==> release next ball breaker event with even more RNG Bullshit.

[Rustic]

I'd think of it more along the other way of things.

When what you have is hammers (Embrava/PD), everything gets treated the same way- like a nail.

Maybe it's in part from being a ToAU/WoTG era player, but when you can roll through endgame content with a few specific jobs and their SPs, something is awry with the SP in question. Now, I can imagine that considering the relative candy-coated ride that we got in the previous expansion, now that someone who isn't just throwing things up in the air to concentrate on FFXIV is in charge (and hey, FFXI is still the success king for S-E), we're seeing the game being bent back towards more difficult big bad guy fights. Things are being tweaked now that a new expansion is on the horizion and that means whatever is seen as overpowering content gets turned down a notch.

My only sadness is that we've gone all the way from 75-99 and we'll see L99 Geomancers and Rune Fencers in no time as they get powerleveled through the usual methods. Leveling as part of the methods to get people to experience content is dead at this point.

[FrankReynolds]

I'd think of it more along the other way of things.

When what you have is hammers (Embrava/PD), everything gets treated the same way- like a nail.

Maybe it's in part from being a ToAU/WoTG era player, but when you can roll through endgame content with a few specific jobs and their SPs, something is awry with the SP in question. Now, I can imagine that considering the relative candy-coated ride that we got in the previous expansion, now that someone who isn't just throwing things up in the air to concentrate on FFXIV is in charge (and hey, FFXI is still the success king for S-E), we're seeing the game being bent back towards more difficult big bad guy fights. Things are being tweaked now that a new expansion is on the horizion and that means whatever is seen as overpowering content gets turned down a notch.

The problem is that when everything is in fact a nail and you take away the hammers...


My only sadness is that we've gone all the way from 75-99 and we'll see L99 Geomancers and Rune Fencers in no time as they get powerleveled through the usual methods. Leveling as part of the methods to get people to experience content is dead at this point.

Hmm... that all depends. I had a ton of fun leveling Dancer in parties right when it was released. There were lot's of groups exping. I tanked and healed a lot and it was very action packed. When I leveled Scholar 6 months later, no one was looking for a crappy healer / who knows what a scholar was supposed to do in the mid levels. It was painfully slow and felt a lot like playing a gimpy red mage.

So, I say maybe it's a good thing that people will be PLing their way to 99 on the new jobs. More time to experiment with the fully leveled capabilities.

[Crimson_Slasher]

I said it on a sch thread just a few minutes ago but self-quote go!


I been thinking about this and...well if they really want to "adjust" perfect defense and embrava, why not do what they have already done? Apply a tag to select content where they dont want it used. Look at neo-salvage, it has the adjustment state reflected there, why not apply that mentality to other events. The events able to be done so easily (Abyssea/dynamis/sky/sea) can be left as is, while content where theyre worried about it becoming the norm (Dyna bosses, NNI, NSalvage, N-odin, etc) can be tagged with the adjustment where they will have the weaker state. It lets say...abyssea exp parties, empyrean items(weapon/armor) and select nms in the TOAU COP and ROZ eras be smashed down fast and safely, and lets players have that really fun thing, meanwhile not requiring everything coming down the pipe to have 17 DD and a sch thrown at it.

I see this as some sorta compromise personally. Might make some of those magian trials more fun to keep old embrava too. Course if it isnt 1 thing, its another, bring in the bards! I jest. But i share the sentiments of having these mobs needing adjusting or the events needing adjusting. Running NNI just yesterday the floor 40 boss took 5 minutes of embrava-fueled 4 DD pummeling to kill. A drop in some of these mobs damage resistence, and apply some hp reduction closer to 25%-40%. I personally look at difficulty in ffxi as one of two ways, mass HP but relitively harmless (the wall with 1,000,000+HP) that stresses the event clock, or the paper tiger (80,000HP, hitting 500DMG+ a strike). Instead with the new caps we are looking at Walltigers, that also call in their cubs (200,000P+ 400DMG+ a strike).

This not only stresses the clock, and forces people to struggle very hard, sometimes pulling out acts of desperation, but each death also lowers event completion speed, thus stressing the clock more! (Like having 1 DD sitting at the back, unable to even fight.)

This has also made me think about that "Fostering aspects of skillful play" thread. To me this seems like certain events should reward use of good behavior and mechanics. For example, stunning a dangerous move in Neo-nyzul or salvage resulting in a 30 second bonus, skillchains performed between two different players resulting in a 1 minute time extention bonus, and magicbursts giving 2 minutes! Imagine that, get your sch to throw a fire after your war and sam skillchain, and you can pack on 3 minutes! This might encourage people to start letting the mages throw ws for example again! Aaand with this my thoughts have run wild... Still, i think theyre fun ideas and are something that rewards that teamwork they want to encourage, yet doesnt directly punish the lone wolves either.