67 Gil Chocobo Blinkers seriously?

[Winrie]

I cant even begin to express how agitated this makes me, why do you keep punishing legit players for RMT problems? With so little people on the game left do you think its honestly smart to piss off people rather than keep them happy? Good job SE on this decision.

[Komori]

Someone just mentioned this to me. Those who used this method probably dug their own grave with this form of money-making, given that they were practically laughing and looking down on people with less because they had so much surplus cash to use on luxury items from using this method. Next time, maybe you'll have learned to keep your mouth shut about using money to save any problem?

[Godofgods]

Nerfing blinkers is goign to cause an uproar among players. And i can actually agree with them. It was one way that everone could make some gill without camping on top of each other, fighting over pops, spending eternitly leveling craft, or any other time sink. Blinkers were something that anyone could do, and always enough mobs for all.

On a side note: what to do with the 10+ mill cuor iv been holding onto...

Edit1: in addition to my above post, i don't really see how nerfing blinker will help with rmt problem. Unless that track down every RMT and murder them, they will always be around.

The harder it is to get gill, the more ppl will want to use RMT services. With curor being such a good way for all to get gill, their was a lot less need for ppl to bother with rmt sites. If you want proof of that, just look at the rmt /tells you get. What used to be $20/mill is down to like $5/mill. (HINT: It's not just supply)

Honestly, i think this will only increase RMT demand. So undoing this nerf would be for your own good.

Edit2: You also talk about the special task force that seek out rmt ways to get them and prevent it all. Tracking items, large amounts of gill, delivery boxes, trades, bazzars, etc. So i have a hard time believing that a guy in abyssea with 14 level 1 mules is hard to locate/notice.

[Deathbeckons]

nice, now all those people who did voidwatch for cruor...? yea, going to be great for all the people still doing voidwatch for gear. gonna be even harder to find people. gg, s-e. way to screw up even more.

[Mirage]

Only thing I'm annoyed over is that they did this now instead of over a year ago.

In either case, better sell brews if you want cash for your cruor now.

There was no way this could keep going on, after all. I could say that everyone should have seen it coming, but that would be kind of a lie. I didn't see it coming because I thought it was seriously too late after almost two years.

And yes, I did convert a lot of gil myself, that does however not mean I didn't think it was ridiculously broken.

[Fupafighter]

SE, you do realize that most people use this cruor as a form of paying for one of your only popular events(VOIDWATCH), to buy voiddust. Doing this to prevent RMT from abusing this is beyond pointless, as they will find another damn way to manipulate the game and you know it. Just an utter waste of time and manpower. Your game is dying and this is what ya come up with. Sorry to criticize, but this is just sad. This isn't going to solve inflation or RMT issues.

[Godofgods]

Added to original post

[Winrie]

Worst decision ever, whomever decided this was a good move to counter RMT, People dont like slaving and fighting to make money, ppl cooperating in voidwatch and abyssea pts ect, exping and making gil at the same time as a whole without f'ing each other over was the most brilliant thing ever to have around and you just killed it. Im appalled by this shit.

[jerji]

Removing Abyssea cruor chaining would have mostly targeted RMT and left VW unscathed.

[Corres]

one of the good decisions SE made.

[Sarick]

It was supposed to hurt RMT not legit players. The suggestions where to make the blinker mission 75+ and make the armor not npc. The changes hit everyone who used this as an outlet now RMT will turn to fishing or other alternatives.

Next stop DYNAMIS RMT floods.

It just gos to show you that given the chance to fix a problem the LAZY easy screw everyone is always used. I don't think STF wanted to invest time so instead of just finding the RMTS the devs killed everything. THat's why STF is nicknamed STFU from the players.

[Lollerblades]

Well done you Head Honchos at Squeenix , you've gone and alienated a lot of your player base now ... Why you didn't do this when the issue was first around I don't know . Spouting that its to prevent RMT really isn't going to wash with a lot of people , great job keeping your player base happy . Kudos to you ...

[saevel]

I saw this coming, surprised it took them this long.

In case nobody's been keeping track, SE's nerfed every single way to make money for the past 7+ years. It hurts both RMT and real players as RMT just do what real players do anyway. I remember crafting tons of holy waters and NPCing them for profits, until SE nerfed it. Same with the various gardening methods out there.

[Fupafighter]

I saw this coming, surprised it took them this long.

In case nobody's been keeping track, SE's nerfed every single way to make money for the past 7+ years. It hurts both RMT and real players as RMT just do what real players do anyway. I remember crafting tons of holy waters and NPCing them for profits, until SE nerfed it. Same with the various gardening methods out there.

The problem is that legit players are making their money, LEGIT. And SE is taking that away because RMT are being RMT. They could you know, like screw over cleaving for xp. Like they did with smn burns I heard. I mean this may help with prices of things, but it won't stop RMT, and it makes farming gil harder. They're basically saying "go into a zone infested with 20 perle bst and try to make gil".

[scaevola]

This is probably a needed change if the CPI's going to get back to anything remotely resembling sanity, but it's going to have to be followed by a pretty serious retooling of Voidwatch payouts.



The problem is that legit players are making their money, LEGIT. And SE is taking that away because RMT are being RMT. They could you know, like screw over cleaving for xp. Like they did with smn burns I heard. I mean this may help with prices of things, but it won't stop RMT, and it makes farming gil harder. They're basically saying "go into a zone infested with 20 perle bst and try to make gil".

The fact that Dreamland Dynamis, absent competition, is the best way to make a lot of money doesn't mean it's the only way to make a lot of money. Still, I look forward to even more people trying to draw blood from a stone. 20 million gil relics, here I come!

[Winrie]

They really need to rethink how they run this game, all in one push of a button you screwed us legit over and 'Countered' RMT. You maybe stopped them for a week at most, til they begin moving in on things we can actually farm outside cruor dumping. I predict rmt bsts soon in dynamis rather than them keeping to themselves in abyssea cleaving. There's other things you could of done surely than this. Doing content farming for gear while making money at the same time, while not needing to fight other players to make it, nor fight the player controlled auction house was awesome, thank you for screwing it over, just in case you didnt see it the past few times.

[scaevola]

They really need to rethink how they run this game, all in one push of a button you screwed us legit over and 'Countered' RMT. You maybe stopped them for a week at most, til they begin moving in on things we can actually farm outside cruor dumping. I predict rmt bsts soon in dynamis rather than them keeping to themselves in abyssea cleaving. There's other things you could of done surely than this. Doing content farming for gear while making money at the same time, while not needing to fight other players to make it, nor fight the player controlled auction house was awesome, thank you for screwing it over, just in case you didnt see it the past few times.

Chillax, man. This really is a good change. There are still tons of different ways to make money, and if your heart is set on Dynamis you can always level PUP and avoid the inevitable BST rush entirely.

I have been making money for a little while now by falling back on The Old Ways of targeting mobs with high-value AHables and Vendables, and the killrate of a 99 character is pretty ludicrously inflated vs. that of a 75, even against relatively strong targets (90+). Walk of Echoes has a lot of potential as a moneymaker if a bunch of people show up, which has been squandered by the ease and accessibility of cruor.

IMO, the main strength of FFXI has always been the value of money and the variety of ways you can go about getting it; having one option clearly outstrip all others for accessibility and return is great at first but cruor has been a net negative in this regard. The damage has probably already been done, but here we are.

EDIT: by what right do you, flooding the market with cruored gil that you've in no way contributed to the overall economy of your server through goods or services to earn, get to call yourself "legit"?

[Logandor]

My concern is now the fact dyna will be way over camped and all the good decent places some of us had found for our relic currency farming will now be unable to be used by us because the rmts will be camping there with full alliances of rmts which in turn will now cause small parties to have to scrabble left overs for currency and completely waste the 2 hour time a day you get to farm your currency. If they make the currency unable to be bazaared that may cut down on rmt for there but that would make people who have millions of gil to spend peeved because they won't be able to buy currency to make fast relics. SO what I am mainly saying is this just caused a major problem for some and others just more annoyance. To wrap this up I am mainly getting at is now the next "fix" will probably be on dark rings and dyna currency.

[Mirage]

It's not making money that is bad in SE's eyes, but making money out of thin air, which NPCing causes. At the rate cruor was doing this, it's like giving the entire population a machine that prints dollar bills.

[Camiie]

It's obvious who's behind all the shortsighted anti-RMT changes over the years:

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/images/reviews/190/1181360873_1.jpg

I blame you, Mr. Magoo!

[Calysto]

if they gave interesting drops instead of logs and rocs, the prices would go down and there would be more trade between players.
like that'll happens...

[Razielrinz]

Well what do we tell all these new players who were using the Crour to get good gear and help outfit their jobs? Sorry guys you got nothing now. So when the server population drops even more then we can all say bye bye to this game just in time for FFXIV to go back online. Yay SE for screwing over your new player base!

[Camiie]

So I guess the next nerf will be resale prices for Dom. Ops weapons.

[Razielrinz]

Oh and for the people who are selling AC your potential clients have just dropped a lot!

[Xantavia]

Well what do we tell all these new players who were using the Crour to get good gear and help outfit their jobs? Sorry guys you got nothing now. So when the server population drops even more then we can all say bye bye to this game just in time for FFXIV to go back online. Yay SE for screwing over your new player base!
I'm sure the reason that getting good gear was expensive was because people could make gil out of thin air. Nobody's going to think twice about paying 5mil for a piece of armor if they can make that in a day. It is the crafters that I can see this affecting, since they won't be able to charge outrageously inflated prices anymore.

[Rezeak]

Honestly, I believe it needed to happen to make the value of gil sable but....

1. The player base told you about this problem over a year ago.
2. The fact you left this in the game so long made it a viable tactic to make gil.

Considering the 2 facts, you have just made anyone that didn't cash there curor in lose hours of their invested time.

PS. You could of just gave us a warning that you were gonna devalue curor not just punish the people that pay for this game.

small note they warned FFXIV people like 2 month ago the there gil will be devalued so definitely FFXIV players >>>>>> FFXI players.

[Plasticleg]

I'm sure the reason that getting good gear was expensive was because people could make gil out of thin air. Nobody's going to think twice about paying 5mil for a piece of armor if they can make that in a day. It is the crafters that I can see this affecting, since they won't be able to charge outrageously inflated prices anymore.

You should think again.
Crafters always will have clients unless their core clients quit/are banned.
Bet on it.

[Razielrinz]

I would like to point out that Cursed gear has been pretty stable forever, proof that what Plasticleg says is true.

[Creelo]

My immediate thoughts are that this is a horrid nerf that is only going to rock the economy even more since people won't know how exactly this is going to affect prices on every other item in this game.

Perhaps things will pan out ok, but I do think VW will definitely be screwed over from this since a majority of players did VW because they could always make a nice amount of cruor from it, which meant being able to pay for the run or get more gil to work towards a Relic/Empyrean/Mythic/Whatever else.

Idk, I just thought the economy was pretty decent with blinkers as they were and I liked the fact that cruor had some monetary value that could be attached to it, which was nice since it was connected to so many events in the game.

[Nibby]

SE doesn't care what the players want. They'll do what they want, always have and always will.

[tyrantsyn]

I did this once or twice, found it super annoying and went back to farming the regular stuff. From what it sounds like to me some of you became way too reliant on it. And the fact that some of you guys seem outrage about the nerf is just bewildering to me.

Cruor has become a staple in the game at this point. I'm sure their be using it again for something else before you know it.

[Waldrich]

SE doesn't care what the players want. They'll do what they want, always have and always will.

Square Enix is the only company I've know that give a shit about their costumers. oh rmt are costumers. "ToS" who cares?

[Monchat]

they nerfed buggard farming in misereaux, then demon farming in castle zwahl, this should have been done long ago espacially since players have warned SE about this when they released visons. the responsible are those maing cruor chains all day to artificially make gil (we know where they conme from). This linkshell named "profit" on quetzalcoatl farm/bot cruor chains all day. Happy cause theys end me mad tells every time they see me, for whatever reason.

[Creelo]

SE doesn't care what the players want. They'll do what they want, always have and always will, in the hopes that it will create bigger time-sinks for the player-base so they can try to milk more cash from FFXI.

Love your original statement, just felt it needed a little more.

[Camiie]

SE doesn't care what the players want. They'll do what they want, always have and always will.

New Producer, same as the old Producer.

[Winrie]

Chillax, man. This really is a good change. There are still tons of different ways to make money, and if your heart is set on Dynamis you can always level PUP and avoid the inevitable BST rush entirely.

I have been making money for a little while now by falling back on The Old Ways of targeting mobs with high-value AHables and Vendables, and the killrate of a 99 character is pretty ludicrously inflated vs. that of a 75, even against relatively strong targets (90+). Walk of Echoes has a lot of potential as a moneymaker if a bunch of people show up, which has been squandered by the ease and accessibility of cruor.

IMO, the main strength of FFXI has always been the value of money and the variety of ways you can go about getting it; having one option clearly outstrip all others for accessibility and return is great at first but cruor has been a net negative in this regard. The damage has probably already been done, but here we are.

EDIT: by what right do you, flooding the market with cruored gil that you've in no way contributed to the overall economy of your server through goods or services to earn, get to call yourself "legit"?


I have the right to call myself legit considering ive never bought gil nor swindled or dicked someone over for anything i have. But hell, lets say everyones non legit because they used a vendor item to make money, lest we forget it took work to get the damned cruor.

[Kari]

I like how everyone is blaming RMT.
The majority of the people botting chocobo blinkers are average players, because a blinker bot is extremely readily available to anyone who seeks one.

[Sarick]

It's not making money that is bad in SE's eyes, but making money out of thin air, which NPCing causes. At the rate cruor was doing this, it's like giving the entire population a machine that prints dollar bills.

This would be less of an issue if more crafting items where shop based. Problem with SE is they make a very high percentage of the items needed for crafting farmed. Players go farm them for money. If a lot more items where sold for reasonable prices at shops it would reverse the influence of gathering ingredients from enemies.

Lets look at echo drops. They are easy to craft easy to farm the ingredients. Because they are sold at NPCs this is a convenience. It also limits the amount players can charge for making them. I buy my echo drops from the NPC's because they're cheap and easier to gather even though I can craft them. EVERY GIL a player spends on shop items is one less gil in the economy. That money spent is gone!

When players traded crurer that was converted into gil. The items players bought where more or less putting the money back into the system if they made purchases from bazaars or the auction house. The solution for the problem is to sell more ingredients in shops. The more stuff that's available unlimited supply the more players will buy it. Unless these shops sell at extremely unreasonable amounts they should do well for the economy. It's simple really, if you can make gil out of thin air you should be able to buy items out of then air with it.

[StingRay104]

In the past Final Fantasy games, a player would get decent amount of gil based on the level of the monster or monsters they defeated. When is the last time anyone got gil from a monster? All the new stuff gives cruor. All the old stuff gives at most 30 gil a kill except nms. Where is the balance of actually getting decent rewards from difficult monsters. 1/500 chance to get the item you desire? This is wrong. As for people who claim blinkers aren't legit, well in today's society you can go gather apples and sell them to people for a profit, so selling something you collect is a legit way of making money. Cruor can be legitimately farmed and traded for items of value and then resold. However if a person doesn't contribute to the process then it is no longer legitimate. SE unless you come up with decent ideas on how a person can sustain themselves in your game you will fail. Fail at pleasing the customers, fail at sustaining the game, fail at keeping your jobs, just all around fail. That is the word that best describes this nerf because by taking away peoples means of attaining gil they are more prone to using rmt services, which of course are gonna get more expensive. If you want to quit failing then introduce methods that are reasonable for everyone to make decent headway at achieving their goals, and this includes making gil.

[Sarick]

I did this once or twice, found it super annoying and went back to farming the regular stuff. From what it sounds like to me some of you became way too reliant on it. And the fact that some of you guys seem outrage about the nerf is just bewildering to me.

Cruor has become a staple in the game at this point. I'm sure their be using it again for something else before you know it.

INHO it's sex toys for everyone, because they seem to think we where screwed. :D

[Sarick]

In the past Final Fantasy games, a player would get decent amount of gil based on the level of the monster or monsters they defeated. When is the last time anyone got gil from a monster? All the new stuff gives cruor. All the old stuff gives at most 30 gil a kill except nms. Where is the balance of actually getting decent rewards from difficult monsters. 1/500 chance to get the item you desire? This is wrong.

Those games don't involve social aspects. You either farmed crafted or made everything on those games yourself. There was no player vs player trade. In those games the money you made was the economy. In an MMO the money each player makes becomes the economy.

If transactions are mostly between other players that means money lingers in the system. If things where different and more money sinks existed then that wouldn't be a concern. Unfortunately, every thing that's good in this game is either farmed, or crafted by other players.

AS of now players buy mules to hold gear. What if players could buy as much space as they wanted if they rented it each upgrade costing more every time more items where added? What if mog mail cost money for deliveries. What if some HIGH end armors constantly needed recharged.

This isn't a rocket science. Yes the system is broken but money growing on tress is only a good idea if there are equivalent money pits that are CONSUMING it in equal amounts. I'm sorry but trading with outer players isn't consuming money it's just moving it around.

[Kari]

Hey SE, make some new awesome food.
Make it so that we have to buy expensive ingredients to make this food.
Make the foods require 110 Cooking, and have an HQ version that we can't Tier 1.

If we got some new DD food, mage food, etc and it was costly to make, it would be an easy gilsink.
FOR EXAMPLE, if it was the best DD food, cost 100k to make, it would be 100k taken from the players, towards an item that will be consumed. At the same time, giving Cooking a bit more usefulness as a craft. [There's not a WHOLE LOT of profit when you compare to other crafts.]

[DrForester]

Well you can't expect the guys at SE to do anything useful like ban the RMT people. then they would not get subscription fees. Instead SE was kind enough to screw over the entire playerbase so they could keep their precious subscription fees from the people that do RMT.

Not like this will get rid of gilsellers SE, they'll just find something new.

[DrForester]

I did this once or twice, found it super annoying and went back to farming the regular stuff. From what it sounds like to me some of you became way too reliant on it. And the fact that some of you guys seem outrage about the nerf is just bewildering to me.

Cruor has become a staple in the game at this point. I'm sure their be using it again for something else before you know it.

Outside letting people buy Voidwatch stones with it, they aren't going to do anything will the millions of curor out there. This is just a screw you to the player base, and a slight inconvenience for the RMT. It's a stupid measure because it won't in any way stop RMT sellers.

[SNK]

I did this once or twice, found it super annoying and went back to farming the regular stuff. From what it sounds like to me some of you became way too reliant on it. And the fact that some of you guys seem outrage about the nerf is just bewildering to me.

Cruor has become a staple in the game at this point. I'm sure their be using it again for something else before you know it.

Pretty much this in a nutshell. I have many other legitimate ways of making cash so this was sort of a lol for me when I'd heard about it.

[Kosneffect]

Let's just all rage quit for stuff getting nerfed. I remember way back in the day when they nerfed ranger and made alot of people mad. This also nerfed holy waters, think there was something with a smithing cap that rmt use to fish up and make a ton of gill on. There is so much stuff they have nerfed in this game and people complain. Stop being lazy and find other ways to make gill not that hard. It doesn't matter if player base or rmt are doing it, either way prices are gonna be high cause some dumbass is willing to pay for a over priced piece of gear. There are so many new players in this game with gear they don't even know how to use. They don't even know how to play the job correctly, it's just sad that you can burn any job and just plain suck at it. If you know you got new people in your shell teach the correct way to playing the game teach them the basics.

[Winrie]

Let's just all rage quit for stuff getting nerfed. I remember way back in the day when they nerfed ranger and made alot of people mad. This also nerfed holy waters, think there was something with a smithing cap that rmt use to fish up and make a ton of gill on. There is so much stuff they have nerfed in this game and people complain. Stop being lazy and find other ways to make gill not that hard. It doesn't matter if player base or rmt are doing it, either way prices are gonna be high cause some dumbass is willing to pay for a over priced piece of gear. There are so many new players in this game with gear they don't even know how to use. They don't even know how to play the job correctly, it's just sad that you can burn any job and just plain suck at it. If you know you got new people in your shell teach the correct way to playing the game teach them the basics.

Granted there are tons of ways to make money but the sole fact remains that repeatedly SE punishes the non tos breakers at the same time as the tos breakers, thats becoming bullshit.

[Return1]

The gil fountain was retarded. This should have been nerfed a long time ago as it's led to inflation. The amount of gil being created was not even close to proportionate to the gil outgoing.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Every time someone in game purchases an item from a npc (Corsair Die, Select puppet attachments, scholar storm/helix spells come to mind...) money is removed from the game environment. If npc selling is entirely removed from the game, gil will continue to cycle around between players, slowly being removed from the system. Additionally the auction house charges list fees for items. Statistically if such an event were to occur where money couldnt be earned from missions/quests, npcing, or monster kills, the gil pool would dry to such a point where even using the Mhaura/Valkurm ships for 100G each would be considered a massive luxury and waste of money. In short, the gil in game has to come from somewhere, and as most sources via quest/mission are not repeatable, this would cause a market collapse in due tome, killing jobs whom depend on npc only offered items to function propperly. While i cant be sure removing blinker npcing from the game is good or bad, i can say that people are less likely to lower their prices initally, and sales will grind to a hault before a mass economic price crash.

[Demon6324236]

Granted there are tons of ways to make money but the sole fact remains that repeatedly SE punishes the non tos breakers at the same time as the tos breakers, thats becoming bullshit.

Couldn't agree more.

[Aarahs]

Sound like you can still make a profit, just not as much of one.

[DrForester]

Worst thing is that SE did it with no warning. Like it or not this was a part of the game economy, and if SE wanted to change it, they should have given notice. Let people get the last out of it who want it. This wasn't a glitch, this wasn't against TOS, and it's been in the game for years, it was not something that needed to be fixed without warning. It would not have "hurt" the game economy anymore than it has for the past year, and you would not have pissed off the playerbase.

[scaevola]

To wrap this up I am mainly getting at is now the next "fix" will probably be on dark rings and dyna currency.

hakuryu imo

[Vosslerr]

I used blinkers once for about 3 million when I was needing some cash bad, but I didn't rely on it. I'm more worried about Dynamis now becoming a shitfest and overcrowded with people trying to farm gil, and I wouldn't be surprised when RMT also join in.

[StingRay104]

Still doesn't negate the fact that reasonable rewards need to be a part of the game. An economy cannot exist without the means for people to make money. That is the point of my argument, crafting is basically dead, rare items are either cannot be traded or so rare it is not a reasonable means for profit. Cruor can be used for many things, and for awhile it was a way for people to get gil. In WoW you got reasonable amounts of gold for quests and from monster kills, and they were the king of MMO's (might still be idk haven't cared). In japanese culture they believe in learning from others and using that knowledge to better themselves. So why aren't they learning from a more successful game. Sure that game was boring as hell but I'd give anything for their customer service, crafting system, and the system for gaining money. All in all this update hurts SE's stance more than it helps, because when it comes to RMT people won't risk it if there is a reasonable other means to gain their gil. Now that method is gone and RMT will make a killing, and right before christmas too. Fine SE you wanna make money and kill off RMT then pay attention..........SELL THE GIL YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!! Why would people buy from rmt if they would get banned, especially if they could buy it directly from you. Some players might find this ridiculous, but SE did sell R/M/E to Japan at the anniversary event.

[Sarick]

Still doesn't negate the fact that reasonable rewards need to be a part of the game. An economy cannot exist without the means for people to make money. That is the point of my argument, crafting is basically dead, rare items are either cannot be traded or so rare it is not a reasonable means for profit. Cruor can be used for many things, and for awhile it was a way for people to get gil. In WoW you got reasonable amounts of gold for quests and from monster kills, and they were the king of MMO's (might still be idk haven't cared). In japanese culture they believe in learning from others and using that knowledge to better themselves. So why aren't they learning from a more successful game. Sure that game was boring as hell but I'd give anything for their customer service, crafting system, and the system for gaining money. All in all this update hurts SE's stance more than it helps, because when it comes to RMT people won't risk it if there is a reasonable other means to gain their gil. Now that method is gone and RMT will make a killing, and right before christmas too. Fine SE you wanna make money and kill off RMT then pay attention..........SELL THE GIL YOURSELF!!!!!!!!!!! Why would people buy from rmt if they would get banned, especially if they could buy it directly from you. Some players might find this ridiculous, but SE did sell R/M/E to Japan at the anniversary event.


I hope you're talking tome because that WALL OFF TEXT was hard as hell to read. PLEASE paragraph your post. Same with you Winrie.

The FF11 is an MMO if money floods the economy and grows on trees then people will blow it faster. It's all fine if you have features to control the growth. Doesn't other MMOs have armor damage cost or something. Back when I played the realm we used mana crystals. These cost money to cast every spell. Armor cost money to repair tools cost money to repair. Honestly I don't like that reality.

Unless there is something to consume the amount of gil coming in it will eventually cause inflation. The system could've been more balenced. EVERYONE would like EMPY 95+ weapons why not sell (augmented) heavy metal plates with crur instead or something. Say 10-50k each? This way if they're going into the economy players buying them they at least aren't selling them to NPCs. 18 billion a week is hurting the economy.

I do think though they should've taken out the RMT and left some leeway for the users. Like Limited purchases per game week.

[Arcon]

The best decision SE made in a while, but being SE it was probably company policy to do it two years too late. Economy on Leviathan is fucked and everything is horribly inflated, and it was not RMT who did it, but legit players, because cruor was the easiest way to make gil for new players who just got their first taste of Abyssea, as well as for people who just wanna be rich for the sake of being rich. By selling cruor they didn't get money from player transaction, but instead pumped new money into the economy. As a result, we have several people with capped gil, overbidding on everything and generally paying whatever they feel like, meaning they inflate prices over anything regular players can compete with, just because they've been getting 60M daily for months now.

Cruor farming was retardedly broken and absolutely had to be cut down, this was the only rational choice SE could have made at all. It doesn't mean some damage hasn't already been done (and won't be reverted anytime soon), but it was the only way to prevent it from getting worse. All these "VW for cruor" arguments are useless, because no matter what you make there you can't possibly compete with the rate the prices get inflated because of how other people are abusing that system. You were actually losing money relative to the market every minute cruor farmers were botting the shit out of Abyssea for that purpose and you should be happy this happened before it was completely too late. I'm just happy SE did it now instead of never.

[StingRay104]

Alright since some of you have forgotten I'll remind you. Also since some of you aren't able to read any post that doesn't include paragraph spaces I'll break it down.

SE has in the past done this before. Each of these nerfs has caused the inflation to reverse which means items cost less gil. Some of you will remember the days when a scorpion harness would sell for 30m. So what happens to all the RMT's or people whom have already achieved max gil? Their fortune increases because now everything is cheaper.

This is what happens when inflation reverses and thus you have made it easier for RMT to make more dollars on their gil. Also those super rich whom can inflate the price on an object can make it even harder for people to acquire the items they need and want.

I have said this in my last 2 posts but it seems the only responses I get are to insignificant parts of my post so here's hoping the third time is the charm, IF YOU DON'T HAVE REASONABLE REWARDS AVAILABLE TO THE PLAYERS THEN YOUR ECONOMY IS GOING TO SUFFER BECAUSE PEOPLE NEED TO MAKE MONEY AND IF YOU DON'T STIMULATE THE ECONOMY THEN IT WILL COLLAPSE.

Now if SE had bothered to consider this before hand and introduce a more lucrative means of obtaining gil at a reasonable rate, or making crafting worth while again, then perhaps this could have been implemented much easier. All that is gonna happen at this point is everything will shift to the nearest easy money maker, and one by one SE will nerf them.

RMT aren't going anywhere because apparently SE likes having them around.

[Behemothx]

SE just killed their own game again, I'm not personally affected by it but I know tons of people who are. If they wanted to deal with the RMTs they should've put better limitations for people with excess cruor: Mission clears, hours played etc.

Square Enix in my opinion has the worst MMO management in history.

[Return1]

I'm glad Arcon gets it. Leviathan economy was in the gutter from Blinkering, and if they didn't kill it, it would have made all hell break loose. It was economically sound to let blinkers ride for a while.

You're never going to balance the creation and destruction of gil perfectly. So when deflation reaches extremes, gil fountains can be made to reinflate the economy. When inflation threatens to grow out of control, you cut off the gil fountain to deflate the economy. SE after a year or two SE will create a new gil fountain, because gil going out will be higher than gil going in, and a year or two after that, they'll nerf that, before inevitably adding something new.

That's how you properly regulate a game. Sucks for you. Necessary evil.

[Arcon]

Square Enix in my opinion has the worst MMO management in history.

Agreed, for a number of reasons.


SE just killed their own game again, I'm not personally affected by it but I know tons of people who are. If they wanted to deal with the RMTs they should've put better limitations for people with excess cruor: Mission clears, hours played etc.

Disagreed, because RMT weren't even a minor problem here. It was legit players who had the worst negative effect on the economy with Blinkers. RMT contributed very little to it, I don't even know any RMTs who did it on Levi at all, not sure about other servers. But just look at everyone posting in this thread, bitching about it. That alone should give you an insight on how many legit players were doing it, and that's not even considering the people who farmed that shit with three mules each 24/7 in Abyssea.

[Behemothx]

That's how you properly regulate a game. Sucks for you. Necessary evil.

The way you properly regulate a game is by targeting RMTs, not legit players.

[Secondplanet]

so whats next like others i think they will attack FC parties by making it so when you FC you can only get EXP from one mob instead of them all. Like seriously who can FC for 20+hrs without using a 3rd party/bot that would fry my brain in about 4hours of such repetitive gameplay.

Oh well there's always monster hunter 3 ultimate coming out soon.

[Plasticleg]

Did you guys ever think the biggest issue isn't the Chinese gill farmers, but the legit players who made a profit off of this (in the form of USD)?

Within the past few months I've seen a familiar name from long ago, all of the sudden become a decked out know nothing, with a 99 Vere. Given they could've been trolling, no one in their right mind fulltimes an idle set.

[scaevola]

ok let's iron this out before going any further

THIS WAS NOT INTENDED TO TARGET REAL-MONEY TRADERS.

if you need a reason for it other than it just really, really needing to happen, it's to ensure that content in seekers of adoulin can and will be a viable way to make money when compared to content already in the game

[Demon6324236]

Well honestly I think FCs will be killed off by this as well, used to be able to turn the cruor made from the FC into gil, which shaved off most of the cost, it was similar to a RMT FCing for cruor with tons of mules, but instead they had you do the cruor trades for them while you also got xp in return.

[Plasticleg]

if you need a reason for it other than it just really, really needing to happen, it's to ensure that content in seekers of adoulin can and will be a viable way to make money when compared to content already in the game

quoted for the truth

[scaevola]

FCs are unlikely to go anywhere, because at a fundamental level they provide a service that people are eager to pay for; they may end up having to charge less but that won't matter if the CPI drops, too.

[Plasticleg]

FCs are unlikely to go anywhere, because at a fundamental level they provide a service that people are eager to pay for; they may end up having to charge less but that won't matter if the CPI drops, too.

Siren would disagree. Recently I think they've been selling AB's (lol).

[scaevola]

Well, reasonable minds can disagree, but at this point I'm pretty comfortable that going from 30 to 88 in a night while I sleep is worth a million gil to me.

[Return1]

Love the idiots who think this was aimed at RMT instead of Economic regulation.

Love how idiots think this is the first time npcing has been nerfed.

Love the idiots pretending it's the end of the world when they know in a few months something will be implemented that sells just like Blinkers, and no one will care about said blinkers.

Love how idiots think this won't affect them.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Cant speak for other servers. but even with major gil influx on sylph, most products remained reasonable prices and sold well, economy was fairly stable over here.

[Demon6324236]

I have seen no problems on Phoenix with anything except I was making money & was content with making what progress I could.

[Fupafighter]

This makes me sad. Learned a little bit reading this thread about how our ingame economy works. Just SE, give us a decent way of making gil and please from now on, think about how it will effect us. You already knew things like mass killing existed. You could have started off by making only the red monster give experience(should have done this over a year ago when cleaving RMT's started). Remake how you could obtain chocobo blinkers. Like make it so you need to do a mission in sea or some crap. That would make it very lengthy for RMT to get to the damn quest. Put better items on the auction house. I miss the days where you could wear very good gear if you had the gil for it. Now it's all about the voidwatch drops or nyzle isle drops. HELP CRAFTERS. More higher end gear will be put on the auction house if people can afford to make it, or even attempt to make it(this is mainly my point with ammunition).
On a side note, make cruor convertable to voidwatch stones, even if each stone costs 30k cruor or something. That would help people's voidstones stocks greatly. No one wants to pay 120k to do an event where there return will be 20-30k gil 95% of the time....

[Fupafighter]

Cant speak for other servers. but even with major gil influx on sylph, most products remained reasonable prices and sold well, economy was fairly stable over here.

Give it a month or two.

[Arcon]

"Give us a way of making gil." What? 2M daily in Dynamis isn't enough? 4M daily with both Dynamis and Salvage isn't enough?

People seem to misunderstand what "making gil" is, especially the "making" part. Dynamis and Salvage and even FC parties are great because they don't create any new gil, but just shift the gil within the economy around. The same isn't true for cruor. Cruor actually "made" gil, out of nothing. In regulated amounts, this is good and productive, if the player population supports it. The only reason some people didn't notice the influx of money reflect badly on their own gameplay was because the player population went up significantly after the SoA announcements, so there were people ready to consume all that money. As soon as that would have calmed down, you would notice it tremendously, because the supply would be going down, because less people are doing relevant content, while the money keeps going up, and we'd end up in the same crapper we've been a few years ago when people were asking 100M for a Thief's Knife and not getting laughed at for being retarded.

Tl;dr it's a very bad thing if everyone can afford everything, regardless of how good it sounds in your head.

[Tsuneo]

That's cool and all, but most people bought bazaared items with cruor gil, so it's quite possible sales will suffer as a result. We can't all be sellers; who would be buying at that point?

[Kriegsgott]

Good Job SE! finally something you did right!

[Mefuki]

I think most of us can agree that this was a change that had to be made to stem the tide of inflation. Still, I wish SE could be a little more...I don't know, tactful with these sorts of changes. Sort of let people down easy.

[Mirage]

And as we have to sell things for less, the things we buy will start costing proportionally less too.

We might have "felt" rich with all the cruor gil, but the fact is that unless you're one of those few who generated the highest amounts of gil from cruor, your relative wealth was constantly decreasing, even if your gil-figure in the game was rising.

[Demon6324236]

My way I have been making gil for months is VW. I did VW such as Qilin, Kaggen, or something that dropped plates. In return for killing the NM I was guarantied 50k via cruor trades. This knowledge made me sure I was making money, not wasting it on luck. By killing the NMs, I had a chance at alot of money, Heavy Metal being worth 100k made it great for money, and I could walk away happy. My problem is now I don't see VW making money always, infact I see myself probably losing more than I make from it because its massive luck influence on if I waste my money or not.

By changing this they lowered my income alot, they lowered my want to do VW even more. I do not like Dyna, I hate it, its boring & annoying in many ways. I do not want to do Salvage, it requires a few people to enter, even then, the boss at the end is required for half the profit. I cant level crafts, no money to level it, things I can make arnt in much need, I have been working on goldsmithing but thats not getting much of anywhere without money to fund the skillups & mats. Really in the end, I can afford nothing now, with how I have been playing this game I see my income dropping alot & I have failed to come up with a decent "fun" way of making gil since I found out about this.

[Arcon]

By changing this they lowered my income alot, they lowered my want to do VW even more. I do not like Dyna, I hate it, its boring & annoying in many ways. I do not want to do Salvage, it requires a few people to enter, even then, the boss at the end is required for half the profit. I cant level crafts, no money to level it, things I can make arnt in much need, I have been working on goldsmithing but thats not getting much of anywhere without money to fund the skillups & mats. Really in the end, I can afford nothing now, with how I have been playing this game I see my income dropping alot & I have failed to come up with a decent "fun" way of making gil since I found out about this.

While I sympathize with your situation, one that several people probably find themselves in, it doesn't change the fact that this was cheating money. So of course you liked this, so did everyone, and only because they didn't yet experience the negative impact of it on themselves. Just like people would go batshit nuts about someone handing out hundred dollar bills in the street every day, until the economy is all the way down in the shitter and people are starving in the streets because their thousands of dollars can't afford an apple anymore.

Making money was never fun, and it the thing is, it shouldn't be, ever. Making money always has to have some negative implications to it (boring, difficult, time wasting, etc.), otherwise everyone would be doing it instead of doing content, which will inevitably lead to high demand, high cashflow and low supply again, which is the definition of inflation.

[Demon6324236]

Sorry, playing games is meant to be fun, never boring, if a game is boring & stress to make money, it stops being a game and starts being work, I shouldn't be paying $15 a month to work. Thats not to say everything should be handed to me, no, but when I'm doing something on a game it should be enjoyable, this means Dyna, Salvage, VW, everything that is profitable or not should be in some way fun in the end.

[Arcon]

Sorry, playing games is meant to be fun, never boring [..]

And that's what I've been trying to say. If making money is fun and easy, everyone would be doing it instead of playing the game, because the two are not the same. Money buys things that you could otherwise get by playing the game. And that's what should be fun. Money should be a last resort, a means to get access to items if you cannot clear the content yourself, because you either don't have the manpower, endurance or skill to do it. It should not be a substitute for content.

A good example for VW would be to increase the item drop rate. That way, the content itself would be worth doing, not for the money it gives, but for the content itself.

[Suph]

Chocobo Blinker has to be nerfed eventually. After all it's one of the only way to make gil in this game that really aren't contributing anything back to the community.

If you farm Dynamis Currency, somebody can use those currencies to finish Relics. If you farm HMPs, somebody can use those for Empyrean. If you farm, even things like Lizard Skins, somebody can skill up on those or make it into armors. If you craft, somebody get to eat those food or wear a shiny new armor. Doing any of those, you earn your gil as compensation for contributing goods to the economy.

If you farm cruor and turn them into chocobo blinker however, you are not putting anything into the market, nobody will get any kind of benefit from your action. Nobody can make relic from your cruors, no body can eat your chocobo blinker, but everybody will suffer as their gil become less valuable, after all there is more gil to buy the same amount of items. Converting Cruor into gil really is a very selfish way to make money, only you benefit while everyone else suffers.

[Mirage]

Sorry, playing games is meant to be fun, never boring, if a game is boring & stress to make money, it stops being a game and starts being work, I shouldn't be paying $15 a month to work. Thats not to say everything should be handed to me, no, but when I'm doing something on a game it should be enjoyable, this means Dyna, Salvage, VW, everything that is profitable or not should be in some way fun in the end.
Then play the game and have fun.

Look, it is really simple. You can't have a player-driven economy and at the same time have an infinite supply of gil. It simply does not work in the long run. Either you have a NPC-only economy with no player trading, or you have to balance the amount of gil put into the economy with the amount of gil drained out of the economy.

I don't know about you, but I' rather keep the player-based economy. If you don't like that, MMOs might just not be for you. For me, one of the things that draw me into MMOs is exactly the existence of a dynamic economy within a virtual world, with all the pros and cons that come with it.

[Vagrua]

All I have to really add is that Cruor conversion was one of the few ways to actually make gil. I, myself, was pretty broke before then only having Angel Skins or ISNM Khroma ore runs which was never guaranteed profit. With it gone, Dynamis will be overcrowded as others have said. There aren't many items a person can farm solo and make gil off of that are worthwhile anymore. The main items demanded require groups to obtain.

A much simpler route they should have taken was punishing the RMT, not the playerbase. It seems if anything gets abused by RMT, we get punished along with them just like the bad apple in the class that gets everyone else punished with them.

[Demon6324236]

Money should be a last resort, a means to get access to items if you cannot clear the content yourself, because you either don't have the manpower, endurance or skill to do it. It should not be a substitute for content.

A good example for VW would be to increase the item drop rate. That way, the content itself would be worth doing, not for the money it gives, but for the content itself.I agree, in my case for instance, I want Dux+1 gear, yet lack the bonecraft, I want Shedir gear, yet lack the manpower to obtain it, I want to help my gf make her Mythic, yet I cant stand the idea of a year of Salvage for a single weapon. I don't want my money to do everything for me, not even close, but at the same time I would like to have the money if I need it, right now I have alot of things to buy, and no money or income anymore to buy it with, thats all I was saying. And while you make a good point about money making not being super fun because people would keep doing it, Dyna isn't really so much the same. Dyna is boring, if it were fun though you could still only do it 2 hours a day, that limit is there either way, so making it fun would just make it more enjoyable for those who do it and would make it better overall for those who want to make money, but not be bored or annoyed in the process.

This is simply how I see it though, obviously some people will see this as terrible, others will see it as great, I myself see it as a bad thing for me personally even if it kinda needed done. My problem is how long I will probably be subjecting myself to things I think of as boring so I can get something done in the game before SoA comes around.

[hiko]

the fun part about this is that it happen when we get a gil drain (MB boss KIs)

[Crimson_Slasher]

I still stand by the statement that the gil needs to come from somewhere. As it stands, while there is far less "artificial gil" entering the market now, the amount of it leaving the market will remain fairly static. Every crafter buying materials from a npc then selling back a finished product for less than the materials has just affected the economy in a small way. Ideally this would be fine if there were no npcs to consume gil and no way to inject artifical gil into the economy. Ultimately the gil would form endless loops, changing hands. However further onto this, items entering the market can affect the value of gil also. Its a subtle balancing act that has never been perfected with more than two parties.

In defense of what i was saying earlier, most products on sylph, consumed and static, were actually suffering from a rise in supply, and the value of the items was falling, rather than rising due to mass-inflation. Could this have changed? Certainly, because in many cases, the prices are arbitrarily set in comparison to similar products then inflated slightly with the "NEW" tag.

The reason regular economics can not be applied to an MMO though conversely is because like the "Synthetic Currency" that was being introducted, many products too are synthetic. While there was an "Investment" of time to obtain said item, in the real world very little works this way. To produce an item, you must first obtain its base materials and then spend time producing it. While there are some parallels in ffxi, this is not always the case. Dynamis does not require funding once you obtain a "liscence" to take items from, it creates "free" products which can be thus taken to the market and exchanged for gil.

So, to some small degree, artificial gil must be maintained in some sense to compensate with more items entering the marketplace. Especially with auction fees and npc purchases removing it from the economy. Again not defending blinkers, nor supporting them. I used them, i did not rely on them any more than any other means of making gil. However i do forsee a massive...negative...potentially catastrophic impact on my server's economy in the near future. Will it stabilize? Possibly! Such is yet to be seen.

[Monchat]

people will learn to make the economy work again like in real life (player trade wit player, not player <-> NPC). The game has worked like that for years before abyssea, each player having its own personal way of making gil. I used to do the gil fountain methods but SE has always fixed them (bugard skin farming, demon weapons farming in Zwahl, bat farming in Zi'tah...). For years I did The Ashu Talif BCNMs and Limbus ABC farming. The random HKS BCNMs they added last year reward decent money items too so if some one wants to farm gil while "having fun" it's still possible. What's more now HMP will explode in price, as well as cinder/dross, and the random AH drops from VW too (including pulse items).

[Mifaco]

This nerf was long overdue. There were bots floating around the Internet for this sort of thing, as this screenshot shows:

http://i.imgur.com/Ld3wc.png


Disclaimer: I did not use this, this was a screenshot I found

[Luvbunny]

This is one of the WORST DUMBEST stupidest idiotic idea ever. Abyssea pretty much render RMT useless since you no longer need to farm or work too hard to get gil, hence you don't even need to buy. Now with this retarded fix, kinda makes buying gil almost a must have. They should learn to leave abyssea content alone.... Before no one ever bother to buy gil since many various methods of getting them are widely available legit. What a big disappointment. You can't even sell the abyssea gears to NPC anymore either.

[Mirage]

Yes, I like hyperinflation as well, Luvbunny!

[Crystina]

Really SE, way to once again screw up an easy way for a girl to get her mythical weapon done. Ya its great you guys stopped the RMT shouts and all, but all this did was cause alot of BS for everyone that actually didnt abuse the system. What's next? You guys gonna mess with fishing as well? Face the facts, your game is dying and all this did was help lose more people(mainly money). I know for a fact dynamis is gonna be packed as hell now, since people will no longer be doing VW or abyssea. I just hope this doesn't mess with the current prices of alexdrites. 15k was great to buy lol. Guess its back to synergy/crafting for gils again, till SE kills that as well. Way to kill your own game, lol reminds me of someone else who killed something /wink & cuckles.

[Luvbunny]

Yes, I like hyperinflation as well, Luvbunny!

What inflation are you referring to? Prices seems stable in Bahamut, most of the gears and weapons are rare/ex anyway that the only thing one needs from AH are accessories, and those are within the reasonable prices. The only reason you need gils is to buy currency for your magian trial weapon/mythic/relic. Gil was easy to get that you don't even need to do the stupid tedious farming anymore. Everyone can just jump in for endgame grindfest fun. Now after this stinking updates, it's going to affect a lot of people who did not even take advantage of the blinker fiasco. I mean, you need tons of inventory space, and it is utterly inconvenience to do it for your average players.

[Caketime]

When you all come crawling back to Castle Oz and the various other treasure cracks to farm scrolls and baubles don't be surprised to find BST have been camping there for months already, eagerly awaiting your return.

The only thing that disappoints me about this is the Blinkers provided income for many people and at the same time it removed a bunch of bodies from many zones, turning them into a playground for anyone wanting to make some quick cash. Sharing is the nature of any MMO so I'm not too burned about losing my cash cow, my only problem is that other people make me nervous when they're standing over me as I fight an NM hoping I die suddenly. Have to get used to that again.

[Afania]

I like how everyone is blaming RMT.
The majority of the people botting chocobo blinkers are average players, because a blinker bot is extremely readily available to anyone who seeks one.

RMT are always there, it's supply and demand. There are ppl buying gil, thus there are RMT. Like how prostitute existed and you can never eliminate them. SE can nerf choco blinker, RMT will just move to dyna or farm gil in other way to make gil to sell.

[Ophannus]

This is one of the WORST DUMBEST stupidest idiotic idea ever. Abyssea pretty much render RMT useless since you no longer need to farm or work too hard to get gil, hence you don't even need to buy

Just whom do you think runs or operates those cleaves?

The problem with FFXI economy is it's not based upon trade but based on people creating gil out of thin air. NPCing Fish/BLinkers creates new money literally out of nowhere whereas before the economy was based around buying and selling items for gil, the gil was never really destroyed except for NPC services/dynamis/limbus.

[Mirage]

What inflation are you referring to? Prices seems stable in Bahamut, most of the gears and weapons are rare/ex anyway that the only thing one needs from AH are accessories, and those are within the reasonable prices. The only reason you need gils is to buy currency for your magian trial weapon/mythic/relic. Gil was easy to get that you don't even need to do the stupid tedious farming anymore. Everyone can just jump in for endgame grindfest fun. Now after this stinking updates, it's going to affect a lot of people who did not even take advantage of the blinker fiasco. I mean, you need tons of inventory space, and it is utterly inconvenience to do it for your average players.

Prices seem stable because the supply of some common things have increased by a large amount as well.

Dyna currency still costs around 8k for singles on my server, even if those coins are something like 4-8 times easier to farm now than they were before. What's happening is that the value of dyna currency is a lot lower now, but because there is so much gil in circulation, it doesn't show directly. It's hard to accurately say how much dyna currency would have costed if it wasn't for cruor inflation, but I would say probably around 3-4k a piece instead of the 8k I manage to sell mine for.

If you look into it, you'll see that the things that seem to have remained stable are the things that are extremely common by-products of regular abyssea/voidwatch/whatever activity, while items that you need to go out of your way to get have increased in price by a huge amount. For example Phalanx was about 600k on my server half a year ago, now it is 1.6 millions (and 2 years ago I bought it for 90k, lol). Utsusemi Ni has increased by a lot too, but only about 70%. It's at 1.6M now, while it was a bit below 1M early in Abyssea's life-cycle.

So yes, there has been a lot of inflation, it's just that we've all been so spoiled by making gil out of thin air that we haven't noticed, and even if we did, we didn't care because we could afford it anyway if we just talked to a certain chocobo trainer for 5 minutes.

Now I'm not saying money is hard to get, because I don't think it is, and I can afford most things I want that aren't relics, mythics or lv95 empys. I am saying that there definitely has been a lot of inflation, and that it would have kept inflating and inflating to even more ridicuous amounts than we have now if they hadn't (finally) pulled the plug on the gil dispenser.

[SharMarali]

This move was not directed solely at RMT, I'm sorry to say.

This move was directed at all of those players who abused chocobo blinkers, whether they were RMT or actual players.

The fact is, gil created out of thin air in mass quantities is not good for the economy. It devalues gil, for the same reasons that the US Treasury (or the treasury of your favorite country) does not simply print more and more money to give everyone millions of dollars.

On my server, there were multiple groups of non-RMT players who spent, literally, 7 hours a day, 4-5 days a week, farming cruor. They would then spend 2 hours a day turning in all of their cruor for blinkers and gil. Most people on my server know exactly who I'm referring to, because these people boasted about how rich they were and proceeded to complete multiple relic/empyrean weapons with their cruor-gil. These groups would bring mules into the zone for their daily marathon cruor sessions and convert THEIR cruor to gil as well.

These groups, who are not RMT, added BILLIONS, with a B, of new gil into the economy every week. Every week. BILLIONS of new gil that did not benefit anyone else in the form of armor someone could wear or food someone could eat or currency someone could use to upgrade an item, did not circulate through other channels, but rather, came out of thin air.

I'm sorry for the legitimate players who were using blinkers as a means of making a little money here and there. Unfortunately, SE had no real alternative than to take action to prevent people from continuing to add these massive quantities of gil into the economy. I promise, you will find other ways to make gil.

I would recommend that you please consider raising a craft or farming something that others can make use out of, rather than finding something new to sell to an NPC. SE has never supported methods of gil-making that create gil out of thin air as a primary income source, and no such method of gil-making will stick around forever, I promise you that.

Final note, if you want to double-check my math on the billions of new gil every week, here are my figures:

200-300k cruor per hour after the initial hour or so of building lights / chains. 7 hours of cruor farming per day. 4-5 days of cruor farming per week. 18 players in an alliance all receiving this same quantity of cruor.

Please take a moment to consider how damaging this is and realize that SE wasn't trying to punish everyone by taking away their gil. SE was trying to maintain some control on a situation that had gotten completely out of hand.

[Windwhisper]

Why not half the gil of everyone around as next step? sounds like the logic way to piss the playerbase off even more. Things like mystic weapons are even harder now to obtain.

Excellent job!

[Mirage]

Stuff.

I agree with most of that, except I don't think it is fair to call it "abusing". There is absolutely no way SE did not know about this from almost the very beginning of. There were numerous forum posts raising concerns over it, and I'm pretty sure I know of at least one person who called a GM to make sure that it was not considered an exploit before using it.

That this was left in the game for as long as it was is neglect from SE's side, not abuse from the players' side. The players were simply performing within the parameters set by SE, and several actually asked SE directly if this was considered an exploit. To be entirely fair, I would say the cruor farmers, while egoistical, were pretty smart. Those who did it a lot are now good on gil probably for the rest of the game's life, and can casually buy any relic/mythic without it making a dent in their wallet, even less so after items decrease in prices, which will undoubtly happen after the nerf.

[Demon6324236]

I'm perfectly fine with this change so long as they do 1 massively important thing. Make VW profitable to anyone & everyone in the party the same as Cruor did. Cruor gave a reason to join any VW party, even if you needed nothing from it or it dropped nothing of real worth. For instance I joined LancingL shouts, why? For cruor & something to do, I had nothing to lose, a little to gain, and something to do, win win, now however I wouldn't think twice about it, I have no interest in the boots personally, anyone like me who looks at that shout will probably feel the same, and ignore it, making it harder for the party to get the needed members.

If they fixed this by adding a reward of some sort players need in large supply that would have a very high drop rate, this would change. For instance the highly requested Heavy Metal addition to these tiers. Heavy Metal seems to be a perfect fit, it makes players trade with one another for gil, the item is consumed by the quest, the same gil continues in circulation, no extra gil created, people still make enough profit from VW for it to be a good income source so the event can continue & others can still obtain the stupidly low drop rate gear.

If any problem came of this change, its that cruor became worthless, and VW became much less rewarding at the same time as being a much less attractive event, when it was already highly hated due to drop rates.

[Demon6324236]

I think abusing was more people who took mules in & cruor farmed for hours like the example that was given. Players who did VW for cruor, or normal xp parties for cruor weren't really abusing it, more so just getting rid of an excess amount of cruor they didn't need in return for something they did need, gil. The reason cruor parties & the like were abusing it is because they were directly attempting to make money from chocobo blinkers & nothing else, if you were in VW or xp parties it was a side effect, sure, it may have even influenced your choice, but thats not all you were doing it for, thats where I draw the line between people who abused it, and people who simply used it at least.

[Mirage]

If anything, VW should start dropping more non-NPCable things that are actually valuable. Like additional mini-HMP that would be seen more often than HMP, and always be in addition to regular drops, not instead of them. These could be turned into actual HMPs whenever you had something like 5-10 of them, perhaps. Going by those rates, these would sell for 10-20k, depending on the server.

This would not increase the amount of gil in circulation, while it would give players a much more steady supply of money from VW, and ensure that you'd always get *something* out of it instead of nothing. It would also have the neat side effect of making lv95 empys a bit easier to get. I think these mini-HMPs should drop from any voidwatch, and perhaps even noticably more commonly from cities and other lower tier VWs.

Additionally, they should perhaps not be as dependent on procs for a decent drop rate as other items. This would make it easier for people to get help with doing other VWs than the most popular ones, and you wouldn't need to spend as much time on getting people for procs. Hopefully, this will make it easier for people who were late to the party to get cities cleared, and some of the less popular gear that might still be interesting to some players.

If you still got the same old amount of cruor, which now isn't worth as much as gil, but on top of that were almost guaranteed to get a mini-HMP that would sell for 20k gil on the open market, it could make up for some of the cruor-gil lost from the update.

But of course, this requires SE to actually look at some of this content and actually reconsider some of their earlier choices. Not sure how likely that is to happen.

[Arcon]

Yes, I like hyperinflation as well, Luvbunny!

Don't expect any form of sentient thought from them.


Ya its great you guys stopped the RMT shouts and all, but all this did was cause alot of BS for everyone that actually didnt abuse the system.

Are you kidding me? Buying/selling Blinkers was pretty much the definition of "abusing the system". People who did it were practically cheating. This had nothing at all to do with RMT.


I'm perfectly fine with this change so long as they do 1 massively important thing. Make VW profitable to anyone & everyone in the party the same as Cruor did.

So it's ok as long as they increase the value of an event that you in particular of all people like for no reason other than that you don't like the tons of other things that shit money out of every end? Dynamis and Salvage were only two examples, there's also crafting, fishing, resale, xNMs, WoE, FC parties (which you admitted got you 12M daily while you were doing it), etc.

[Godofgods]

Nerfing blinkers is goign to cause an uproar among players.

19 hours since first post, and already over 100+ replys lol

[Oakrest]

Worst decision ever, whomever decided this was a good move to counter RMT, People dont like slaving and fighting to make money,

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I found trading cruor for choco blinkers for gil to be painful. It was so boring and just downright grinding and repetitive that I think I gave myself carpal tunnel. Making gil should be fun - an adventure, not this stupid brainless nonsense. Even the dynamis grind is more entertaining and fulfilling that spamming menus on a npc for hours on end.

[Godofgods]

The fact is, gil created out of thin air in mass quantities is not good for the economy. It devalues gil, for the same reasons that the US Treasury (or the treasury of your favorite country) does not simply print more and more money to give everyone millions of dollars.

On my server, there were multiple groups of non-RMT players who spent, literally, 7 hours a day, 4-5 days a week, farming cruor. They would then spend 2 hours a day turning in all of their cruor for blinkers and gil. Most people on my server know exactly who I'm referring to, because these people boasted about how rich they were and proceeded to complete multiple relic/empyrean weapons with their cruor-gil.

While i wouldn't try to argue the point made in the first paragraph (since its true), The second paragraph was kinda the part i liked about it all.

Yea it could be abused, everything and anything any more is. (be it game or RL) But that mass money, allowing ppl to complete multiple weapons and what not, i liked. Its giving the players a decent chance to go out and get things done. And without taking 2-3+ years to get it done like old school relic/mythic weapons.

While it did create its own set of problems, like any addition to content can do, I would rather deal with problems that allow ppl to get things done rather then problems that hold players back.

Having an option that allowed any skill based player to try and get decent work/gill in was a good thing IMO. If the issue of to much gill in circulation arised, then deal with that problem, don't just erase the whole thing. I'm sure they could come up with something decent to start removing the gill from the economy.

And the STF could step up in regaurds to ppl bringing tons of mules to curor pts. While not the greatest idea; punishing some of the player base, its still a little better then punishing the entire player base.

[Demon6324236]

So it's ok as long as they increase the value of an event that you in particular of all people like for no reason other than that you don't like the tons of other things that shit money out of every end? Dynamis and Salvage were only two examples, there's also crafting, fishing, resale, xNMs, WoE, FC parties (which you admitted got you 12M daily while you were doing it), etc.Question, for what reason will people do VW now? If you want Athos' Boots for instance, you will do LL, but for how long? Till you get the boots, then your done, you leave, nothing more to be gotten from the NM after that except possibly Brego Gloves if they drop, but thats a low chance, about 3% (http://ffxidb.com/items/10503) which isn't enough for many people to sign up for it. That means its harder to find people to do it. You list these other things, let me run through that list rq.

Dyna:Can be soloed, no need for others to join you, do it when/if you wish.

Salvage:Needs only 3 people, in truth only 1 person if you can find 2 others to get you in, and then your free to do as you wish.

Crafting:Requires money to start, can be done alone, or with buying materials from the AH so long as they are there.

Fishing:Boring, requires alot of time it seems, and from what I have read it seems alot of money made this way is via NPC, no different than Cruor did, which seems to land us in the same exact problem.

Resale:If you have things you don't need anymore this is fine, the fact is however that many things worth having are R/EX, meaning you cant sell them, only drop them, which prevents resale.

xNMs:Requires a few people possibly, can be done with the YOYD mentality or with a few friends, requires seals/crests.

WoE:...lol

FC:Requires people willing to pay what your willing to cleave for.

Everything you mentioned can be basically equally beneficial for everyone, or can be done with few people. FCing being the only one in the list which requires more than 6, and the majority of them are solo. The reason VW is a problem is you need alot of people for it, unless there is a reason to do it, its harder to get those people, making it harder to actually get the drops which are already hard enough to get thanks to the drop rates. Really, 1 of the things you mentioned suffers this problem so far as I know, WoE. Unless that changed at some point, its still not commonly done, which is why Fake Emps are still stupid to make as they take more effort than the real thing.

I didn't say it because I <3 VW & think its the best event evur, its because its an event with low ass drop rates on good gear that requires alot of people, and unless you give some incentive to those who already have the rewards from it, your supply of people will dry up as fast as you can get them to drop, or people give up on them. For example, I joined a party for Gaunab in an attempt to get the Ogier's Breeches, I joined a Kaggen party on my other character, both parties were at about the same amount of people at the start. I put Demonjustin at the pop spot for Gaunab to wait, and did all 6 kills of Kaggen before the Gaunab party had filled, let alone gathered at the Rift. I have no idea how many people joined for the gear, or how many joined for something to do, but I assure you anyone who walked away with what they wanted wont be coming back now. People who got their gear from that NM, wont be joining that shout anymore because there is no gain, and in the end it hurts them to join, so shouts will take longer & longer, they will die, and eventually gear will become basically unobtainable because no one will want to do VW, it will take several hours to find a group of people who don't have, but want the gear a NM drops.

Some VWNMs are safe from this, Kaggen, Akvan, Pil, Ig, Rex, Morta, Bismarck, Qilin, Uptala, & Aello. They drop plates, Dross, and Cinder, which means they drop money, which will keep them going for a while because people keep making Emps, and keep wanting lv95~99 Emps. However anything that falls outside of that will be harder & harder to make groups for with each person who gets the gear because it will have no incentive for those who have it already.

[Godofgods]

Making gil should be fun - an adventure, not this stupid brainless nonsense. Even the dynamis grind is more entertaining and fulfilling that spamming menus on a npc for hours on end.

no.. no it is not...

[Kriegsgott]

want to make money?

keep in mind there ar still Allied Notes for Voiddust :D

[SharMarali]

I agree with most of that, except I don't think it is fair to call it "abusing". There is absolutely no way SE did not know about this from almost the very beginning of. There were numerous forum posts raising concerns over it, and I'm pretty sure I know of at least one person who called a GM to make sure that it was not considered an exploit before using it.


Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply that it was a violation of ToS. I don't see any reason to believe that it was. When I said "abuse," I meant it as "abusing the system." Alcohol is legal to buy if you're over 21, but it can be abused. Same basic concept.

[Mirage]

I know you meant it like that, but I still think that the word "abuse" makes it sound like the players are to fault. SE basically did something that would be equivalent to giving everyone in a country a license to print legal money, and then when people asked "are you sure this is a good idea?", they said "yes, just keep doing it".

It is a terrible idea to give someone the ability to do that, but it is both terrible and idiotic to expect people to not use it.

[Siiri]

I am going to side with the players who wondered why anyone thought that a gil fountain like this was going to remain. I remember when the beaches of Bubu were packed with leech farmers for bloods. They were nerfed. Then it was gardening, that was nerfed, etc etc. Always got to stay creative. Give the economy a chance to shake out, and see what is up. I can't believe this cruor nonsense was left untouched for so long. It was fine to take advantage of, but it wasn't some promise to you that it would always be there. Got to stay diversified in your gil making, never know what is around the corner.

[Fupafighter]

"Give us a way of making gil." What? 2M daily in Dynamis isn't enough? 4M daily with both Dynamis and Salvage isn't enough?

People seem to misunderstand what "making gil" is, especially the "making" part. Dynamis and Salvage and even FC parties are great because they don't create any new gil, but just shift the gil within the economy around. The same isn't true for cruor. Cruor actually "made" gil, out of nothing. In regulated amounts, this is good and productive, if the player population supports it. The only reason some people didn't notice the influx of money reflect badly on their own gameplay was because the player population went up significantly after the SoA announcements, so there were people ready to consume all that money. As soon as that would have calmed down, you would notice it tremendously, because the supply would be going down, because less people are doing relevant content, while the money keeps going up, and we'd end up in the same crapper we've been a few years ago when people were asking 100M for a Thief's Knife and not getting laughed at for being retarded.

Tl;dr it's a very bad thing if everyone can afford everything, regardless of how good it sounds in your head.
Just thought I would let you know, you make your gil back in cruor from fell cleave parties, via the cleaver is taking your gil, and converting cruor into gil. And so are the people who cleaved with them. So no, fell cleaves greatly hurt the economy.

[Vagrua]

If any problem came of this change, its that cruor became worthless, and VW became much less rewarding at the same time as being a much less attractive event, when it was already highly hated due to drop rates.

I agree with you, VW is going to be even less appealing and more difficult to find people for now unless the price of Heavy Metal Plates rises exponentially. Not to mention, finding others to help with clears for new players entering the game/people who still need them will become more of a hassle than it's worth.

[Demon6324236]

True, players making win runs before had a hard time so far as I have seen, people in my LS shouted for I think about 4 hours to make a Sandy group, which failed at the Pixie a couple times even. Now that this has happened... Anyone new to VW, is gonna be paying a few hundred k to start their wins probably, and after that, they get to play roulette with VW's drop system, so really not likely to see to many more people interested in VW I suppose.

[Plasticleg]

I agree with you, VW is going to be even less appealing and more difficult to find people for now...

I thoroughly disagree with this statement. SE set the abysmal drop rates for pulse items so that people would still be doing VW. Just because the old/original crowd eventually maxed out on gear (very unlikely) doesn't mean that there are newer players to the event, who are finally hitting the brick wall. Even with the advent of the QQnerf, there were 3-4 VW groups shouting against each other at NA primetime last night on Siren. And already lulz at the countless number of 140k HMP's on the AH website last night.

[ManaKing]

SE doesn't care what the players want. They'll do what they want, always have and always will.

The same goes with players. It's not like cruor farming was helping the community or the economy, it just made it easier for people to do something repetitive that they chose to do for money instead of actually play the game.


I have the right to call myself legit considering ive never bought gil nor swindled or dicked someone over for anything i have. But hell, lets say everyones non legit because they used a vendor item to make money, lest we forget it took work to get the damned cruor.

Lol you call that work! Cruor should be easy to make because you can buy brews with it, not so you can create a ton of gil. You aren't increasing the amount of actual goods on the server so you shouldn't be making massive profits.

[Demon6324236]

I thoroughly disagree with this statement. SE set the abysmal drop rates for pulse items so that people would still be doing VW.Let me just point out rq, that Pulse items drop from the exact same NMs I mentioned before...
Some VWNMs are safe from this, Kaggen, Akvan, Pil, Ig, Rex, Morta, Bismarck, Qilin, Uptala, & Aello. They drop plates, Dross, and Cinder, which means they drop money, which will keep them going for a while because people keep making Emps, and keep wanting lv95~99 Emps. However anything that falls outside of that will be harder & harder to make groups for with each person who gets the gear because it will have no incentive for those who have it already.These NMs will continue. They have Pulse Cells, Plates, Cinder/Dross, overall they drop profitable items in the end. The real problems are with the NMs outside of this, they all only really offer 1 thing thats good, with 1 semi-profitable item that is unlikely to drop. Like I explained in my long post, if you get the R/EX gear from something like a T4 Jeuno NM, you will have no want to really return to it, making all shouts for that NM take alot longer, till your shouting for 5 hours for a LL party, use Clusters, or just give up entirely.

[Monchat]

curor nerf followed the next day by NNI even more impossible and ADL more subject to luck. Ok guys at the dev. team time to annouce something to look forward. Nobody likes nerfs even if we asked for it. We know they are needed... but give us somethign to look forward.

[Demon6324236]

curor nerf followed the next day by NNI even more impossible and ADL more subject to luck. Ok guys at the dev. team time to annouce something to look forward. Nobody likes nerfs even if we asked for it. We know they are needed... but give us somethign to look forward.
http://img.bluegartr.com/wiki/b/b2/Seekers_of_Adoulin_logo.png
All they got I'm afraid, and it isn't looking promising seeing as they are just making current content worse it seems.

[Luvbunny]

want to make money?

keep in mind there ar still Allied Notes for Voiddust :D

This would be great if they actually do something with Campaign. As it is now, not much happening there. All they have been doing is coming up with dumb and dumber ideas every updates, refuse to hear what the player base wants, and do the absolute minimal efforts every updates. With these kind of signs, and pretty much no news on the new expansion, it's hard to care about SoA.

[Kriegsgott]

This would be great if they actually do something with Campaign. As it is now, not much happening there. All they have been doing is coming up with dumb and dumber ideas every updates, refuse to hear what the player base wants, and do the absolute minimal efforts every updates. With these kind of signs, and pretty much no news on the new expansion, it's hard to care about SoA.

wouldn it be very funny if none care about SoA til SE does stuff what we want and not what we maybe want?

[Plasticleg]

It's always funny to see pchan and crew calling for nerfs when they abused the old abilities to the full extent.

[scaevola]

It's always funny to see pchan and crew calling for nerfs when they abused the old abilities to the full extent.

No, they're complaining that the nerfs that came through don't have anything to do with why people leaned so heavily on Embrava/PD to begin with.

Outside of NNI, Embrava was deemed necessary only inasmuch as it ensured your target was dead before PD wore off.

[Plasticleg]

No, they're complaining that the nerfs that came through don't have anything to do with why people leaned so heavily on Embrava/PD to begin with.

I was talking about the 2 hours nerfs, not the lulzy 10% hp down.

[Khajit]

want to make money?

keep in mind there ar still Allied Notes for Voiddust :D

What's the voiddust for? The event that noone wants to do and that just lost a huge portion of the reason behind even attempting it? Hate to break it to you but it's entirely possible that's not going to last very long.

[scaevola]

I was talking about the 2 hours nerfs, not the lulzy 10% hp down.

Nobody is complaining about PD/Embrava getting nerfed absent the context of the stuff we used them for.

Well, okay, maybe some people are, but they're the minority.

[Arcon]

It's always funny to see pchan and crew calling for nerfs when they abused the old abilities to the full extent.

So did I. I also traded cruor like crazy. And I still think both should have been nerfed. But that doesn't mean I can't complain about how SE approached the issue, because they're entirely ridiculous in their implementation and once again show that they're completely out of touch with the real world and seem to be unable of any sentient thought.

[frydanny]

I have something to ADD RMT doing shouts for Experience Points AFK 100k 1 hour 500k 5 hours ETC ........ That should be stopped to im miffed that blinkers have been nerfed I am not a regular player and they helped me get the gil for the expensive items off AH. The harder you make the game for new people trying to catch up the more likely they are to just quit before they have put real effort into it.

So today on ODIN i thought right i got all this curor lets do VW and seen as i have only done Basty 1-4 i tried for the other nations and Surprise, all VW shouts are for Higher Teers of Areas not yet accessible because I have not done previous VW expeditions.

Whilst im for RMT's being stopped there are ways and means of doing it. Weather its not allowing blinkers to be stacked or limiting a max amount of blinkers to be on a person. Slow them down or change Level for abby to MIN lvl 76?

[Caketime]

Brosale raised the price of gil by $3 overnight.

[Fupafighter]

I have something to ADD RMT doing shouts for Experience Points AFK 100k 1 hour 500k 5 hours ETC ........ That should be stopped to im miffed that blinkers have been nerfed I am not a regular player and they helped me get the gil for the expensive items off AH. The harder you make the game for new people trying to catch up the more likely they are to just quit before they have put real effort into it.

So today on ODIN i thought right i got all this curor lets do VW and seen as i have only done Basty 1-4 i tried for the other nations and Surprise, all VW shouts are for Higher Teers of Areas not yet accessible because I have not done previous VW expeditions.

Whilst im for RMT's being stopped there are ways and means of doing it. Weather its not allowing blinkers to be stacked or limiting a max amount of blinkers to be on a person. Slow them down or change Level for abby to MIN lvl 76?
Are you in your own world? You can do jeuno 1-6 without jeuno abyssite. You just don't get the progress. You can also do zilart, aht urgan, and whatever the F that last one is that I forget. Just have to get tier 1 abyssite for those 3. You can do tier 6 jeuno with a tier 1 sandy abyssite ffs. The more ya know...

[Demon6324236]

Are you in your own world? You can do jeuno 1-6 without jeuno abyssite. You just don't get the progress. You can also do zilart, aht urgan, and whatever the F that last one is that I forget. Just have to get tier 1 abyssite for those 3. You can do tier 6 jeuno with a tier 1 sandy abyssite ffs. The more ya know...For win credit you need to do cities, so you can pop. Also you need temps from the cities among other things from the KIs.

[Sp1cyryan]

Wonder where SE was for the past couple of years.

Suddenly the way things have worked (cruor being turned to gil and people actually taking SMN to events) just don't cut it anymore.

The time to nerf things is in a recent time frame after seeing how things go. Not years later to rattle up the players.

[Vivivivi]

I am truly disappointed with the recent announcements. I am logged in right now sitting in Jeuno, and what is normally an exciting time of the evening to pick and choose from multiple voidwatch shouts has turned into complete silence. A LS mate tells me the only shout they saw before I got on was for a Jeuno T2 clear, but they disbanded before they even could get started because they could only get ten people to join.

It has been nearly an entire hour and the only thing anyone has shouted for is to buy some currency, from 7:30PM- 8:30PM EST :(

[IvyKyori]

I'm logged in right now, and I guess folks are finding other...dodgy gil makers. I heard that casinos were big a few years ago, but I haven't been around long enough to know what it entails or if it's even legal (pretty sure it's not). But yeah.

I'm more annoyed at the fact that it was done without warning, and now it's gonna take me even longer to gear up a job that can do dynamis solo (or even duo) since mages (which I main mostly, only two melee jobs I have at 99 is DRG and that was for maat purposes--and ended up leveling up anyways because I liked it enough, and DNC) aren't exactly ideal in that situation.

I'm also glad I got my T2 Jeuno wins recently, because it took me at least 2 months to get in one in the first place, and I shudder to think, since a couple of those nm's are a pain (I'm looking right at you, Laidly Laurence), how long getting another one of those together will take. And the city wins too...the new folks who need those stuff are gonna feel it once the smoke clears.

[Luvbunny]

Brosale raised the price of gil by $3 overnight.

I guess they have to make up the difference somehow lol. This game went from being really fun to play and enjoyable in the last two years, now heading into the downhill slope. Funny thing is, most of the new adjustments did not affect me greatly at all, but the mount of negativity is enough to turn me off from playing this game altogether.

[Ophannus]

Since they fixed dynamis, theres been hyperinflation. People 'create' new gil everytime they npc something and the rate at which gil is being created(Hakyrus, Blinkers) was vastly faster than gil being deleted(Legion). People can make millions a day on multiple accounts/characters using blinkers/fishing but the only way gil is deleted is through NPC sales which is really only limbus/legion/einherjar and is frankly almost nothing in comparison.

[Winrie]

So three dollar markup on Gil?

I got it now.
Players find great Gil method, lots of cash rolls into players pockets, price per mil declines for rmt, SE nerfs cruor to Gil methods, Gil price increases and rmt continue what they are doing.

Taking the fight to real money trading~

[Vivivivi]

So yeah. There was apparently 1 IG-Alima run, 1 Kaggen run, and 2 other VW groups that tried to form but disbanded today due to lack of interest on Quetzalcoatl. :(

[Demon6324236]

Sounds like VW will be leaving us soon, and seeing as its the current most popular event outside of Abyssea, and the only event made since Abyssea you can do as much as you wish, things are going to be slowing down even more around here.

[Luvbunny]

Since they fixed dynamis, theres been hyperinflation. People 'create' new gil everytime they npc something and the rate at which gil is being created(Hakyrus, Blinkers) was vastly faster than gil being deleted(Legion).

Had they actually make Legion worth doing, billions of gils would be deleted. Should they make heavy metal plates drop in a lot of VW events instead of one in particular, another billions would vanish. Had Meeble Burrow designed with some IQ in mind, another billion will evaporate. The same can be said to salvage adjustment, etc... Those are just easy way to make the game more accessible without resorting to ridiculous bad news we have been getting lately.

[Luvbunny]

So three dollar markup on Gil?

I got it now. Players find great Gil method, lots of cash rolls into players pockets, price per mil declines for rmt, SE nerfs cruor to Gil methods, Gil price increases and rmt continue what they are doing. Taking the fight to real money trading~

Seriously, you wonder if SE is actually behind these gilsellers website. Gil used to be a massive problems and created boring grindfest of farming. Since abyssea inception, I never once need to do any farm whatsoever for gil with all those items you can sell to NPC and items from gold boxes fetching decent prices on AH. Whenever you need gil, you just farm cruors and do more voidwatch to make up the difference. Life was good, they actually created the perfect 2 hours for mages with Embrava. Obviously a band of misfits monkey is ruling the office now, first order is to make sure the game is not accessible, take the fun out of playing and enforce back the crazy idiotic grindfest that is not even fun to begin with.

[Kristal]

Removing Abyssea cruor chaining would have mostly targeted RMT and left VW unscathed.

Removing Abyssea exp chaining, you mean. RMT are selling slots in cleave parties, and if they have their 'customers' pay for for forbidden keys to open chests it's all profit to them.
Kill the exp chain, and it all unravels. Kill the cruor chain, and all you've done is hurt real players, like those who did not yet max out every atmacite or need brews for lowman farming abyssea NM drops.

Honestly, was there anyone who did NOT see this coming? SE has done this same thing, over and over and over again.
This method was feeding gil into the economy at a obscene rate, and it had to be nerfed.

[Afania]

I guess they have to make up the difference somehow lol. This game went from being really fun to play and enjoyable in the last two years, now heading into the downhill slope. Funny thing is, most of the new adjustments did not affect me greatly at all, but the mount of negativity is enough to turn me off from playing this game altogether.

Lol, cuz ppl are exageratting. Just because other ppl tell you they're unhappy with blinker nerf, doesn't mean it will affect you negativity.

To clear things up, if you don't
1. have multiple account leeching in cruor pt
2. blinker bot
3. currently building an empy 99, or still need ex/rare from VW without hMP/cinder/dross drop.


Then you actually got benefit from this nerf. Cruor-->NPC was actually worse income/hr for anyone doesn't have multiple account. I've tried it, I only have 1 character, and with limited inventory space, I make less gil/hr than other ways of farming gil such as ADL/solo dyna and salvage. Same with without blinker bot. If I don't bot, the time I spent on farming and NPCing cruor I can make gil in other ways much faster. It just benefits those who bot so they can make gil while going to bed/work etc.

For anyone doesn't have more than 1 character and bot for NPC/blinkering, item price(except HMP/cinder/dross) will drop, you ended up having to pay less gil when you buy your gears.

Although VW item price may piss off players currently building an empy 99, but I also have to point out a while ago, hMP price dropped to 85k on my server, while alex still 20k+ and O.piece 8.4k+, because everyone spams VW day and night, nobody want to build empy 99, but everyone want to build relic/mythic, which made relic 99 actually cheaper than dross empy 99. And it's not really "balanced" if empy 99 price is much cheaper than relic 99 no?

[Luvbunny]

The blinkers fiasco does not really affect me much, what really annoys me is the fact that you cannot sell abysea gears anymore to NPC. Gil is never a problem for me, since most of the gears are rare/ex and all the good weapons you do magian trials for those. What worries me is that with the nerf, RMT will try to find new ways to encroach new activities to milk. SE should just let you exchange rare/items with cruors or use cruors to buy dynamis currency. Or better yet, fixed campaign and WoTG Bcnms to make those drops more ancient currency, it makes perfect sense where you can get those in the past.

[hiko]

it just made it easier for people to do something repetitive that they chose to do for money instead of actually play the game.

if you're not leeching you ARE playing the game when you farm cruor like when you farm dyna and more than when you /sh for whatever event,




Lol you call that work! Cruor should be easy to make because you can buy brews with it, not so you can create a ton of gil. You aren't increasing the amount of actual goods on the server so you shouldn't be making massive profits.

lol you call brewing NM work? there is no reason to make cruor easy to get .

[Mirage]

The blinkers fiasco does not really affect me much, what really annoys me is the fact that you cannot sell abysea gears anymore to NPC. Gil is never a problem for me, since most of the gears are rare/ex and all the good weapons you do magian trials for those. What worries me is that with the nerf, RMT will try to find new ways to encroach new activities to milk. SE should just let you exchange rare/items with cruors or use cruors to buy dynamis currency. Or better yet, fixed campaign and WoTG Bcnms to make those drops more ancient currency, it makes perfect sense where you can get those in the past.
You can still npc abyssea gear, just not the lv78 cruor gear.

[Afania]

The blinkers fiasco does not really affect me much, what really annoys me is the fact that you cannot sell abysea gears anymore to NPC. Gil is never a problem for me, since most of the gears are rare/ex and all the good weapons you do magian trials for those. What worries me is that with the nerf, RMT will try to find new ways to encroach new activities to milk. SE should just let you exchange rare/items with cruors or use cruors to buy dynamis currency. Or better yet, fixed campaign and WoTG Bcnms to make those drops more ancient currency, it makes perfect sense where you can get those in the past.

RMT will always be there, no matter what they do. Supply and demand. Everyone been saying blinker nerf is fighting against RMT, but IMO, it's fighting against blinker bot and how billion and billion of gil were created every hour from all those mules leeching/NPCing. This is the issue needs to be addressed 1st before worrying about RMT moving camps.

And do you really think it's fair that player with 15 account and blinker bot, sit at capped gil on multiple character because they can make gil at work and sleep? It just makes the gap between rich ppl(or precisely, botter with multiple account) and average player with 1 character and actually make gil when they play, bigger.

Basically you don't bot, don't leech cruor with 15 accounts, most likely you will gain more than you lose.

As for VW being suck, this is inevitable. It's mainly because VW reward isn't attractive enough, rely on cruor gil to save it isn't smartest way IMO. If they want to fix VW incentive, they need to make reward more worthwhile.

[Vosslerr]

I hope they do something soon. Either make VW more rewarding for people that don't need the gear or whatever needs to be done. Whether or not it was the right thing to do, I've noticed a bit of a decline in server population on my server and considerably less shouts for anything. There also hasn't been any XP shouts that I have seen and the usual party locations have been empty, even gusgen.

[Demon6324236]

The problem is even though it did need another fix, they just broke it. Cruor>Gil was not the best way to keep VW alive, no, but it did the job, now VW is losing incentive, as it was said earlier, VW groups are already having a much harder time getting started now that the info has gone around a bit, and it only serves to get harder with time. The thing is, if creating gil is truly so destructive then why not add something we can buy with cruor that is circulated around players, such as Heavy Metal. 1 Heavy Metal for 30k cruor, tada, cruor is worth something, VW has reclaimed its incentive for people, people can make money at it well still, and all is well. This would be no different than blinkers in the end, except it creates items, not gil, and the items are disposed of via trials, so its not as if their value will sink quickly & they will become worthless.

[Vosslerr]

^ Support. Good idea.

[Aldersyde]

The problem is even though it did need another fix, they just broke it. Cruor>Gil was not the best way to keep VW alive, no, but it did the job, now VW is losing incentive, as it was said earlier, VW groups are already having a much harder time getting started now that the info has gone around a bit, and it only serves to get harder with time. The thing is, if creating gil is truly so destructive then why not add something we can buy with cruor that is circulated around players, such as Heavy Metal. 1 Heavy Metal for 30k cruor, tada, cruor is worth something, VW has reclaimed its incentive for people, people can make money at it well still, and all is well. This would be no different than blinkers in the end, except it creates items, not gil, and the items are disposed of via trials, so its not as if their value will sink quickly & they will become worthless.

Absolutely this. When players knew that they were getting something for doing VW, there was much more willingness to accept the dev team's bafflespeak on drop rates and not allowing items to be put in a common drop pool. With the sudden worthlessness of cruor, this is no longer the case whatsoever. I saw 1 VW group actually get out of Port Jeuno last night. I saw an Akvan shout sit at 3 people for over an hour and a Kaggen shout do the same at 10 people for more than two. People aren't willing to spend time on the event for 5-20k worth of mats and a 1% chance at the item they want. People who have what they want have no reason to go back and help others. VW, which is pretty much the only new event introduced after Abyssea that had any type of popularity with the playerbase, is imploding fast. People are panicking to salvage any type of value from cruor and the AH is saturated with rubicund cells at firesale prices (40 stack and falling). If you were making money off voiddust, this mode of gilmaking is very quickly going to dry up as well.

Cruor definitely needs to have some kind of value. I read some post on another forum where a poster said it would finally make people upgrade atmacites "as intended." What's the point of doing that for what's quickly becoming dead content?

Note: I am not saying that cruor should be tied to gil. Cruor should have be much more useful than it is now, however (why do you have to use gil for displacers and not cruor?). Without the monetary incentive of cruor, many players aren't willing to do the content, leaving latecomers/unlucky people shit out of luck for clearing content and getting the rare/ex gear they want.

[Mirage]

The problem is even though it did need another fix, they just broke it. Cruor>Gil was not the best way to keep VW alive, no, but it did the job, now VW is losing incentive, as it was said earlier, VW groups are already having a much harder time getting started now that the info has gone around a bit, and it only serves to get harder with time. The thing is, if creating gil is truly so destructive then why not add something we can buy with cruor that is circulated around players, such as Heavy Metal. 1 Heavy Metal for 30k cruor, tada, cruor is worth something, VW has reclaimed its incentive for people, people can make money at it well still, and all is well. This would be no different than blinkers in the end, except it creates items, not gil, and the items are disposed of via trials, so its not as if their value will sink quickly & they will become worthless.

Cruor -> gil was a completely terrible and unsustainable way to keep voidwatch alive, even if it did the job, for a while. Given a bit more time, gil would have devalued enough for the cruor you made in VW to be worth insignificantly little as gil, and then we'd have the same problem as now, except the economy would also be even more fucked than it is now.

But of course, I agree that VW does need something to be kept alive. It should however be something of actual value, not something that served no purpose but to increase the amount of gil in circulation. Also known as good gear and HMP. Letting all VWNMs drop items that eventually can be used to create HMP might server such a purpose. While it would increase HMP supply and therefore perhaps lower the prices of it, it would also make more players feel that upgrading to version 95 is a realistic goal for them, keeping the supply up, and making it viable to do a greater variety of VW fights.

[Vivivivi]

yeah so... stack of rubicund cells and void dust already just dropped by 50% on the auction house. Start stocking up on canned goods :/

[Demon6324236]

The overall point I was trying to make was that cruor to gil was about all that was keeping VW alive I think, and so far it seems to be showing, only a 2 days after the change was made. Think of a week from now, or a month, VW will continue to go down, & thats bad for a few different things, cruor to gil sucked but it kept VW alive, and until something else can do the same, VW will start to sink, and as soon as it hits the bottom & SE doesn't feel like fishing it up, Plates will become rare & expensive, armors will be literally impossible to get ahold of without spending hundreds of thousands, if not millions of gil. VW is the only reason I have had a problem with this change, and imo its a big problem, because it just killed, or severely hurt one of the biggest pieces of content we had!

[Mirage]

yeah so... stack of rubicund cells and void dust already just dropped by 50% on the auction house. Start stocking up on canned goods :/
Voiddust is still selling for 90% of what they sold for before nerf on my server. They were already down to 25k and had been at that for a long time, now they're at 23k


Too long; didn't quote.
Yes, it will hurt the event. Hopefully, SE will see this before it is too late, and revitalize it with something along the lines of what I suggested. With a high drop rate mini-plate that would be worth 10-20k gil each, people could expect to get a good chunk of money out of them, and do lower tier VWs as well. And by high drop rate I mean acutally high, not SE-high. With a thief in the alliance and a minimal amount of procs, you should be seeing a 80%+ drop rate for them.

[Demon6324236]

(why do you have to use gil for displacers and not cruor?)Small comment on this, I believe this was done for much the same reason as you can not buy Jade Cells with cruor, or Dust with cruor, its to prevent cycles of buying them, then getting the same thing in return to buy them again, even if your gain is much less than the original cost. This is simply my take on it, but I agree it would make cruor a bit more worthwhile again!

[Godofgods]

i think iv seen maybe one single vw shout since the nerf. This is going to be great...

[Fupafighter]

I'm logged in right now, and I guess folks are finding other...dodgy gil makers. I heard that casinos were big a few years ago, but I haven't been around long enough to know what it entails or if it's even legal (pretty sure it's not). But yeah.

I'm more annoyed at the fact that it was done without warning, and now it's gonna take me even longer to gear up a job that can do dynamis solo (or even duo) since mages (which I main mostly, only two melee jobs I have at 99 is DRG and that was for maat purposes--and ended up leveling up anyways because I liked it enough, and DNC) aren't exactly ideal in that situation.

I'm also glad I got my T2 Jeuno wins recently, because it took me at least 2 months to get in one in the first place, and I shudder to think, since a couple of those nm's are a pain (I'm looking right at you, Laidly Laurence), how long getting another one of those together will take. And the city wins too...the new folks who need those stuff are gonna feel it once the smoke clears.
Just so you know, DNC THF and BST are the premiere dynamis solo jobs. Dancer destroys. Just sub thf.

[Fupafighter]

i think iv seen maybe one single vw shout since the nerf. This is going to be great...

Grow up and be a damn leader then. This goes to all you sitting in port jeuno. Lead the shout if you don't see shit going on(here comes the "but no one will jooooooiiiin fupa). If it fails, so what, atleast you tried to get the event going. Bitching about how it's slowing down, is going to solve nothing.

[Fupafighter]

The problem is even though it did need another fix, they just broke it. Cruor>Gil was not the best way to keep VW alive, no, but it did the job, now VW is losing incentive, as it was said earlier, VW groups are already having a much harder time getting started now that the info has gone around a bit, and it only serves to get harder with time. The thing is, if creating gil is truly so destructive then why not add something we can buy with cruor that is circulated around players, such as Heavy Metal. 1 Heavy Metal for 30k cruor, tada, cruor is worth something, VW has reclaimed its incentive for people, people can make money at it well still, and all is well. This would be no different than blinkers in the end, except it creates items, not gil, and the items are disposed of via trials, so its not as if their value will sink quickly & they will become worthless.
Heavy metals would plummet in price instantly. Like 10k a plate.

[Saefinn]

For me this is disappointing, if they were going to nerf it, they could have nerfed it easily and early on, I mean it's not exactly been a secret that this is what has been going on and then folks could have put time into generating money through a different source instead of relying on cruor. For me, I preferred the exchange of cruor for gil because I don't like time sinks. For me a time sink is where I'm doing something that requires a lot of time doing something that's not enjoyable and is overly repetitive, where it feels like a chore and you're not playing a game. I love FFXI but for me the main setback has been the time sinks - with time sinks you could spend hours doing what is effectively nothing. At least with the gil for cruor method you'd be earning gil whilst doing something else and it might be something that's more enjoyable. I could get it when I'm getting exp or killing NMs. It worked for Voidwatch too.

It is a disappointment, but if people got too much from it, I wouldn't have completely nerfed it, I'd have still left it so it'd still be worthwhile. But I suppose, it just means I have to look for another means of earning gil, maybe suck in my gut and look for other avenues. Though I think my main gripe here is that SE seem too often find ways of disappointing fans (I don't just mean with FFXI updates) and I don't think it's that people are difficult to please. Yeah, people don't like a nerf, but I feel a compromise would have been better in this instance, rather than have it okay for a long time and then suddenly, out of the blue, patch it up. What this suggests to me is that communication between SE and fans is pretty poor, if it weren't, then SE might have patched this ages ago or they would have made the descision to let the players benefit.

[Winrie]

Grow up and be a damn leader then. This goes to all you sitting in port jeuno. Lead the shout if you don't see shit going on(here comes the "but no one will jooooooiiiin fupa). If it fails, so what, atleast you tried to get the event going. Bitching about how it's slowing down, is going to solve nothing.

Grow up and understand if no one has interest or a reason(People capped on particular VW run being shouted for) then how can anyone get runs done? Whats the point of wasting even more time just to end up in disappointment?

[Luvbunny]

Totally agree. Abyssea removed the chores of farming. Gil was rendered moot with all the great gears become rare/ex, and the top tier weapons come from magian trials. The game turned into lvl 99 almost instantly, have fun at farming gears instead of gills, exploring your jobs potential with atma combinations, and killing NMs one after another for drops. It's a great change instead of killing the same crab for xp for gazilion times, then everything goes downhill and all the newer NMS pretty much one shot everyone and we resort to PD + Embrava zerg strategy.

Moral to the story, when you find an exploit, please keep it to yourself, share in secret, never bring it out to the open public and continue exploiting it since its working as intended in the player eyes. It's no secret that SE has a very poor communication skills which should work to our advantage. They are taking way too long to do adjustment. TWO WHOLE YEARS after its introduction.

[Luvbunny]

Grow up and understand if no one has interest or a reason(People capped on particular VW run being shouted for) then how can anyone get runs done? Whats the point of wasting even more time just to end up in disappointment?

Yup, you can shout for hours but when there is no incentive for other people to join, your efforts goes to waste. They could add HMP pouches to all the top tiers NMs and sprinkle single drops to lower tiers NMs. Plate only drop from 5 VW NMs now, and pouches from 3 VW NMs. The same can be done to Riftdross as well instead of only making it drop from 4 VW NMs

[Razielrinz]

Heavy metals would plummet in price instantly. Like 10k a plate.

Since you need 1500 of these for 95 why is this a bad thing?

[Seha]

RIP Voidwatch.

[Komori]

All of you "legit" players can blame yourselves for telling noobs to throw money at all of their problems and of the same idiots posting screenshots of themselves with capped gil. This was much more of a strike against real players who were abusing it rather than RMT. I doubt RMT even banked on it to the same degree that real players were so stop using that excuse. And stop saying it killed Voidwatch, voidwatch had become scarce weeks and months before this nerf yesterday.

[Seha]

Yes it was fading away, and this is the nail in the coffin. Before you could at least hope to put together some people for the money, now if they don't want the gear they won't care. The event is going to be dead and buried very soon.

[Mirage]

Not doing it would just have delayed the inevitable. 20k cruor from VW isn't much of an incentive when you need to convert 50k cruor to gil to make as much gil as a single red curry bun would cost.

[Kriegsgott]

I cant even begin to express how agitated this makes me, why do you keep punishing legit players for RMT problems? With so little people on the game left do you think its honestly smart to piss off people rather than keep them happy? Good job SE on this decision.

i didn used a single Chocobo BLinkers so i dont really feel "punished" and i cant really say i'm pissed about it

[Byrth]

There was one Voidwatch shout during NA primetime last night on Lakshmi.

There were many superior ways to fix this problem. Here are some options:
1) Eliminate Cruor chaining and reduce the Cruor/kill to 50 with capped silver light. :: This will majorly fix the cruor farming problem.
2) Give Cruor from opening chests only to the opener. :: This pays for keys a little, so people can rationalize it, and it reduces cruor influx into the system.
3) Reduce the cruor from Voidwatch fights a little, say by 25% so people can expect about 100k Cruor for 6 fights. :: Need to reduce it here a little, and people will still do Voidwatch even if the cruor is slightly reduced if . . .
4) Make an easier way to convert Cruor into gil, like adding "Golden Chocobo" items to the NPC for 100k Cruor that have no function other than to be NPCed for 250k gil. :: This removes the annoyance of converting your Cruor into gil and reduces the reliance on bots.
5a) Open a guild NPC in the Goblin shop Lower Jeuno that sells Dynamis currency (in a typical guild way) for 20k/piece max and gets maybe 50 of each type of currency per game day. :: As soon as it drops below market price, people would snap it up and take a ton of gil out of the system. Lets say it takes 10 game days to hit 7.5k, which is where people buy it. That's 1500 currency sold (~7-8 dynamis runs) and 11.25 million gil removed from the system. 27mil removed per RL day at 7.5k/piece.
5b) Do the same thing in Whitegate somewhere with Alexandrite, Ru'Lude with HMPs, etc. If you put in 50 Alexandrite per game day, on Lakshmi it would remove ~20mil per RL day (people would buy when the price hit 17k/Alexandrite). If you put 10 HMPs in per game day, on Lakshmi it would remove 22mil per day.
6) Continue adding new things like the final boss of Meeble Burrows, where more hardcore players can be expected to dump a lot of gil.

These changes would eliminate the botability of cruor farming and overall reduce the influx of gil from bots while keeping the gil normal players receive from doing Voidwatch/etc. essentially constant. Also, adding high-end gil sinks to the game will keep the value of gil more stable overall and change the gil flow. In the past, the gil flow in FFXI has mostly been between players. Very few quests/items are actually worth doing/NPCing for gil, and when they are SE quickly nerfs them. This is necessary mostly because suitable gil sinks do not exist.

Well, such a system doesn't really work anymore. There are no mid-level parties anymore, so there's no need for mid-level crafted gear. The large amount of useful R/Ex gear from Abyssea and afterwards has outdated all but a few synths even of the recent Hexed stuff. There is nothing to buy/sell other than R/M/E upgrade items (Bynes, Bronze, Shells, Alexandrite, Heavy Metal, and Rift items), medicine, and food. Unless you're farming the former, you can't buy the latter. They need to adapt the economy so that people aren't forced to do Dynamis/Salvage in order to buy food. The system that was in place before this nerf *worked* but was obviously non-ideal because it was exploitable. They should have made it un-exploitable instead of deleting it.

If you implemented a system like what is described above, more casual players would be helped (it's easier to convert Cruor to Gil, so their income effectively increases and they have the gil to buy things), more hardcore players would also be helped (currency prices would drop slightly due to increased supply), and overall the economy will be more stable.

[Crimson_Slasher]

Cant agree more Byrth, While gil needs to go somewhere, it also needs to come from somewhere. I do think that theyre aiming far too broad with their methods of correction. I mean theres always been a detatchment between community reps, devs, and players, however i think the impression of SE after this latest string of "Adjustments" makes them look something like this:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-aQnDo8thPOY/TibV7ydPNuI/AAAAAAAAAIM/05paTjd2npE/s1600/tentacle%2Bmonster.jpg

Which is not a good company image in the player's eyes.

[Demon6324236]

No... no its not, rather a bad look for them, they should change it.

[Caketime]

Is that Father Dagon?

[Crimson_Slasher]

No clue, just something i stumbled upon and felt fitting. I picture the company coming out of the sea, strangling ships and shreaking "BALANCE IS FOR FOOLS!"

[Afania]

RIP Voidwatch.

I don't think plate/cinder/dross VW will die yet, ppl still want to upgrade those, and cinder is GOOD gil(saw one for 1.4M earlier) and I know ppl would do those VW just to sell cinder. Price may go up, but as long as there's demand for those items and they sell for good gil, ppl will keep doing it.

Those VW that doesn't drop cinder/dross/plate will suck a lot though.

[Mirage]

that's why every single VW should drop one of them, or a light-version of them.

[scaevola]

I don't think plate/cinder/dross VW will die yet, ppl still want to upgrade those, and cinder is GOOD gil(saw one for 1.4M earlier) and I know ppl would do those VW just to sell cinder. Price may go up, but as long as there's demand for those items and they sell for good gil, ppl will keep doing it.

Those VW that doesn't drop cinder/dross/plate will suck a lot though.

Why would I spend an hour and 100ish k (rubicund) for the fairly low chance of getting one item I can reasonably expect to sell for less than my initial gil investment?

If you think HMPs will start selling for more than 100k now you're out of your mind.

[Afania]

Why would I spend an hour and 100ish k (rubicund) for the fairly low chance of getting one item I can reasonably expect to sell for less than my initial gil investment?

If you think HMPs will start selling for more than 100k now you're out of your mind.

1. Rubicund still worth 100k? Just get them with your cruor.....
2. HMP price may go up slightly, I never say it won't. It may not go up NOW, but just matter of time. However, as long as those thing still worth gil, ppl will do it. Ppl spam that Gnat VW for that 1M item. I never get drop after a lot of gnat, but ppl still do it fairly often. Trust me, as long as cinder worth 1.4M+ a drop(maybe even 2M after cruor gil nerf), you will be able to fill up a Morta/Ig-Alima pt(of course your morta/Ig-A pt can't suck too much, able to kill 12 of them in 1hr and kill 4 of them in 1hr is different gil/hr).

Price of HMP already went up on my server since nerf btw. It was lower than 90k a while back, and majority of players sell them for 90k. Now majority of player sell for 100 or even 120.

[Zyla420]

after hearing about this nerf, i immediately sold all my dynamis currency. waiting for the inevitable price drop on currency due to RMTs over farming dynamis. then i'll just buy the rest of my apoc lol

[Mirage]

RMT overfarming dyna, lol. That's pretty unlikely. You did probably do the right thing when selling your currency though, because at worst, prices will stay almost the same, but at best, prices will deflate because people now have to actually care how much money they are spending, and can't just generate whatever money they need out of nowhere.

[Fupafighter]

Grow up and understand if no one has interest or a reason(People capped on particular VW run being shouted for) then how can anyone get runs done? Whats the point of wasting even more time just to end up in disappointment?
How would shouting be wasting time? You're just standing there waiting for a shout... Don't lie.

[Fupafighter]

Since you need 1500 of these for 95 why is this a bad thing?
Cruor is easy to obtain. Plates would be all over the place.

[Godofgods]

Cruor is easy to obtain. Plates would be all over the place.

Valid point, but I'm not sure its completely accurate. If a HmP was buyable with curor for say 10k each (not a hard amount to obtain), needing 1500 plates would cost 15 million curor. Which overall is a hefty amount to acquire. Granted it would still be a lot faster to obtain them then hopeing on a vw drop, but I'm not sure they would be 'all over the place'

And if it is true, the price could be raised. With Hmp Selling somewhere around an avg 100k a plate, the old curor exchange rate would require roughly 38k curor to buy one. So you could raise the price to 30-40k a plate. (45-60mil)

Of course i still think its all ridicules. Would rather undo this nerf and work on alternate ways of removing gill form the system, rather then just making it less generatable.

[Tummie]

Why would I spend an hour and 100ish k (rubicund) for the fairly low chance of getting one item I can reasonably expect to sell for less than my initial gil investment?

If you think HMPs will start selling for more than 100k now you're out of your mind.

Well, pre-nerf players weren't using cells to save up on gil. The average run of 6x fights were yielding 120,000 cruor which was easily converted into 318,000gil. With that, a person could turn around and buy 3 plates or do whatever. Anything extra in drops (if they got plates or cinder) was icing on the cake.

Post nerf, a lot of people are sitting on Cruor with nothing to do with it. Most have been dumping it into selling stacks of rubicund on the AH which has caused a decrease in price (50k down to 35k on some servers), or using rubicund on their runs in order to increase the chance to obtain HMPs and other goods to sell.

As far as HMPs going up in price, it is just a speculation based on the idea that most players did voidwatch for the easy Cruor to convert to gil. Since SE took that away, there have been less VW shouts at least on my server, which would create less of a supply when the demand is still there. Before the nerf plates were selling at 90k but now they are starting to go above the original offering of 100k.

[scaevola]

Y'all are missing the point.

Increased scarcity of plates combined with dropping CPI means many fewer people wanting to upgrade an Empyrean from 90 to 95 AT ALL. Plates may increase in price in the short-term as people who are almost done rush to finish, but after that, then what?

[Mirage]

Valid point, but I'm not sure its completely accurate. If a HmP was buyable with curor for say 10k each (not a hard amount to obtain), needing 1500 plates would cost 15 million curor. Which overall is a hefty amount to acquire. Granted it would still be a lot faster to obtain them then hopeing on a vw drop, but I'm not sure they would be 'all over the place'

And if it is true, the price could be raised. With Hmp Selling somewhere around an avg 100k a plate, the old curor exchange rate would require roughly 38k curor to buy one. So you could raise the price to 30-40k a plate. (45-60mil)

Of course i still think its all ridicules. Would rather undo this nerf and work on alternate ways of removing gill form the system, rather then just making it less generatable.

I know several people with 15 million cruor. So basically, these could just hand in all their cruor (which they probably don't need anymore anyway) and instantly get a lv95 empy. The single most efficient way to get hmp would be to cruor farm. Now if that wouldn't completely kill VW, I don't know what would. Even poor little me would be able to upgrade an empy from 90 to 95 in less than a week. Why would I go to voidwatch, or buy stuff from people doing voidwatch when I can do this? It's faster, guaranteed, and never varies from seller to seller.

I mean I wouldn't mind just being handed a lv95 empy, but it's totally going to kill VW :p.

[Arcon]

Valid point, but I'm not sure its completely accurate. If a HmP was buyable with curor for say 10k each (not a hard amount to obtain), needing 1500 plates would cost 15 million curor. Which overall is a hefty amount to acquire. Granted it would still be a lot faster to obtain them then hopeing on a vw drop, but I'm not sure they would be 'all over the place'

They would be. Some people could get that in less than a day.

[Asymptotic]

15 million cruor wasn't 150 million gil. It was a bit less than 39 million. 1500 plates was about 59 million cruor.

[Nawesemo]

/em gives fist pump.

[Mirage]

I think one of the problems in this thread is that the concept of money isn't really a very intuitive thing. It is rather a bit abstract, but that does not mean that it is very hard to wrap your mind around it. It does however require that you think about it a bit differently, and engage in some thoughts experiments, and perhaps think about real world examples and events.

What you need to do is to ask yourselves questions like these:

What is money, really?
Why does money work?

I am not saying this to ridicule people (not this time, anyway!). It isn't knowledge that we are born with, and many do not think about this because they never really have to. However, to understand why these changes were made to the game, you need to have at least some understanding of how an economic system actually works.

You do not need to have a formal education in the subject either. That might have been the case if you were to analyze real world economics, because the economies of the real world are extremely much more complex than the pretty small and simplistic economies within FF11. Because of this, with a bit of effort, I am sure that most, if not everyone in this thread would be able to understand it, if they just stopped spending their mental resources on negative thoughts about how they can't make money as easily anymore.

If I come off as condescending, I am sorry. That is not my intention. I just really hope that if people spent some time trying to understand what has happened and why it has happened, it would make them feel better about the change. I am completely serious right now.

[Ryanx]

I hope they change things back but chances are they won't I wounder how things are on the jp side

[Mirage]

If they do change it back, I'm going to invest all my gil into something that isn't gil.

[Camiie]

If they do change it back, I'm going to invest all my gil into something that isn't gil.

You're going to invest in gold?

[Mirage]

It's a secret.

[Ophannus]

Cruor led to hyperinflation due to NEW gil being pumped in faster than it could be pumped out(Legion/Limbus/Einherjar hardly delete much gil compared to the crapton of gil being pumped in every hour from NPC sales. Dynamis Currency selling doesn't create or destroy any gil since it's being traded between players. Blinkers>NPC generates NEW gil.

[Kristal]

You're going to invest in gold?

Dyna currency probably. New currency can only be generated within limits (unlike blinker gilfountain), and it has some epic size drains to remove it from the economy. It's also well known and traded frequently.

SE would also have to implement a barter trade system to make it easier to buy and sell goods using DC (Dynamis Currency).

[Mirage]

Yeah, that's probably what I would have ended up with. It would be either that, or alexandrite, but dyna is easier to trade.

[Godofgods]

Cruor led to hyperinflation due to NEW gil being pumped in faster than it could be pumped out(Legion/Limbus/Einherjar hardly delete much gil compared to the crapton of gil being pumped in every hour from NPC sales. Dynamis Currency selling doesn't create or destroy any gil since it's being traded between players. Blinkers>NPC generates NEW gil.

true, but a lot of ppl also used curor to pay for the dyna curency. With out that income the amount of ppl able to mass afford curency could see a decline.

[Mirage]

Not necessarily. In the short term, this might happen, seeing as people will have to be more careful about their money now that they can't print new money whenever they need it.

I am of the opinion that dyna currency currently is inflated, due to them not having dropped in price even though the supply has increased tremendously. Compared to pre-dyna renewal, dyna currency is now at least 5 times easier to acquire (if you're a low-mid tier farmer), and each farming run does no longer drain 500k gil out of circulation. However, prices seem to stay at almost the same level as before, which is strange when the supply has increased by an extreme amount. Without inflation, you would have expected them to decrease significantly.

If this is indeed the case, what will happen is that dyna currency will probably drop in price to something that is closer to their non-inflated prices.

As prices drop, dyna farmers will undoubtly cry out in agony over not being able to make as many millions a day as before. However, this is unimportant. As long as people put a high value on relic weapons, dyna currency will be worth farming for. The supply will adjust according to the demand. If too many farm it, it will drop. if too few farm it, it will rise. If the prices drop too much, fewer will farm it, it it rises too much, too many will farm it, and so the cycle goes.

People just have to remember that things are relative, an economy is dynamic, not static. Value isn't determined by the amount of zeroes in your gil figure. Remember, a japanese person with a 400000 yen yearly income isn't richer than an american with a 100000 dollar yearly income. The value of gil will change as a result of this update. Earning 2000 gil instead of 6000 from a whiteshell isn't bad if you can buy a stack of red curry buns for 40000 instead of 110000 gil.

[Godofgods]

Have a point, but at the same time i dont see dyna currency goign down all to much. In some cases its as low as 5-7k. Even with deflation, if it goes down to much more, ppl will stop bothering. At the same time, for a while im sure all the extra ppl in dyna will change it a bit to. So well see jsut how much for both sides'

[Mirage]

But when people stop farming dyna because it's not profitable enough, supply will drop and prices will rise again!

[Fupafighter]

Valid point, but I'm not sure its completely accurate. If a HmP was buyable with curor for say 10k each (not a hard amount to obtain), needing 1500 plates would cost 15 million curor. Which overall is a hefty amount to acquire. Granted it would still be a lot faster to obtain them then hopeing on a vw drop, but I'm not sure they would be 'all over the place'

And if it is true, the price could be raised. With Hmp Selling somewhere around an avg 100k a plate, the old curor exchange rate would require roughly 38k curor to buy one. So you could raise the price to 30-40k a plate. (45-60mil)

Of course i still think its all ridicules. Would rather undo this nerf and work on alternate ways of removing gill form the system, rather then just making it less generatable.

Can farm over a million cruor a day. That would make it way too easy. And no one would buy plates with gil if it were that much of a return. They would probably just go farm cruor instead, as it would be a waste of gil to buy plates.

[Raksha]

If gil deflation is coming, I would sit on my liquid gil.

unless you think whatever you're buying is gonna increase in price more than the deflation.

[Arcon]

I think a deflation is very unlikely, it would take years of the current game pace to take even remotely enough money out of the economy to even get back to where we were before Blinkers.

[Godofgods]

I just don't see how this Nerf is going to work as intended. Inflation and RMT was the problem (so they say). Inflation due to large amounts of money coming in, and none (or not much) going out. - Taking away the money coming in, could be considered a start, but you still have the same amount already in circulation. If it ain't being taken out then things wont change much. And if enough does start to be taken out, then the income wouldn't be as big a problem to begin with.

To combat RMT is the biggest joke of a reason for this Nerf. This is only going to help RMT's overall. Unless Gil is free for all, or everything is obtainable by quest only, RMT's are going to be around. And unless SE tracks down all the RMT's physical location and murder's them, RMT will continue to stick around.

That being said, best bet is make ppl rely on them as little as possible. That is exactly what curor/blinker did. Absolutely anyone can farm curor and trade for gill. Enough mobs for all. Highly skilled to new players could get it done. Proof of it is the RMT's prices. They used to be around $10+ per mill a few years back. Once curor became popular, their prices dropped to like $4.99/mil. The day after those blinkers were nerfed, the price jumped to $8.99 again. Granted with blinkers their supply was increased, but more relevantly, their demand for any product plummeted. This Nerf is only going to increase player demand of RMT Gil again.

And the idea that they cant find/stop a large amount of these RMT's is a joke quite honestly. When you see things like this (http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots/67914) and this (http://www.ffxiah.com/screenshots/67654); and you see the same things in front of Choco blinker NPC, the idea that they couldn't be found in time kinda losses and credibility. And the FC RMT's, it's kinda impossible NOT to find them. Large camp, massive amount of ppl standing around, the never ending /shouts and /yells in jeuno 24/7... Its all kinda hard to miss.

If the 'special' task force actually went after this ppl fast and often like they should, That combined with the easy of blinkers alone should make their business of Gil selling suffer drastically. Combine all that with some new ways to start taking larger amounts of gill out of the economy, they might be able to gain a foothold again the inflation and RMT at the same time. And it would be done without having to screw over everyone in the process.

All in all, i don't see this Nerf accomplishing either goal on its own. It will cause more problems then it could possibly solve.

[Arcon]

I just don't see how this Nerf is going to work as intended. Inflation and RMT was the problem (so they say).

SE never even mentioned RMT at all. This garbage was made up by hysterical players.


Inflation due to large amounts of money coming in, and none (or not much) going out. - Taking away the money coming in, could be considered a start, but you still have the same amount already in circulation. If it ain't being taken out then things wont change much.

Most recent events either allow (Voidwatch), encourage (Meeble Burrows) or even enforce (Legion, Einherjar) removal of money from the circulation through NPC interactions.


And if enough does start to be taken out, then the income wouldn't be as big a problem to begin with.

So what's your solution? Up the price of every NPC-related activity to 1M? So how would that be different from SE's move? It's a matter of balance, you can't just shout "create money" or "remove money" and think that will fix the problem.

[Mirage]

To combat RMT is the biggest joke of a reason for this Nerf. This is only going to help RMT's overall. Unless Gil is free for all, or everything is obtainable by quest only, RMT's are going to be around. And unless SE tracks down all the RMT's physical location and murder's them, RMT will continue to stick around.

That being said, best bet is make ppl rely on them as little as possible. That is exactly what curor/blinker did. Absolutely anyone can farm curor and trade for gill. Enough mobs for all. Highly skilled to new players could get it done. Proof of it is the RMT's prices. They used to be around $10+ per mill a few years back. Once curor became popular, their prices dropped to like $4.99/mil. The day after those blinkers were nerfed, the price jumped to $8.99 again. Granted with blinkers their supply was increased, but more relevantly, their demand for any product plummeted. This Nerf is only going to increase player demand of RMT Gil again.
Well, the problem with "make people not have to rely on gil" solution is that it's basically fixing rmt by destroying the economy. Taken to the extreme, it could make people stop trusting gil as a reliable method of payment, and then what do we do? I'd rather not have to buy my food by trading a chef 4 byne bills instead of buying it with gil on the AH.

[Godofgods]

Well, the problem with "make people not have to rely on gil" solution is that it's basically fixing rmt by destroying the economy. Taken to the extreme, it could make people stop trusting gil as a reliable method of payment, and then what do we do? I'd rather not have to buy my food by trading a chef 4 byne bills instead of buying it with gil on the AH.

I didnt mean 'not rely on gil' i ment for some ppl to not have to rely on RMT's gill selling.



So what's your solution? Up the price of every NPC-related activity to 1M? So how would that be different from SE's move? It's a matter of balance, you can't just shout "create money" or "remove money" and think that will fix the problem.

With inflation, the idea of create or remove money seems to be at the heart of the issue actually.
But you are right in that It's a matter of balance. Before blinkers we had a somewhat balanced economy in terms of gill created and gill removed. The blinkers unbalanced that by increasing the gill created. Which leaves two options, remove it, or increase the gill removed to counter it.

Personally, id rather chose the option to re-balance by increasing the removal. Reason why is because this method allows more players to get more things done. In the last year, players have been able to get crafts skilled, weapons and armor made. Dyna currency demand increased. Even ppl buying the HmP's and riftdross. It simply allowed them to get more done over all, then before the blinkers. Id rather keep that trend.

Personally, i haven't bothered with any of those things i mentioned. Nor have i ever traded Curor in for blinkers before. So I'm not merely 'whining because my methods were hurt' or anything. I just think its a better system that way. Granted, just increasing removal methods along might not be enough. But id rather explore options along that path; not only nerfing blinkers.

[Winrie]

I don't remember very many times where SE actually said "were nerfing this because RMT abuse it" so to me that defense is quite mundane. Myself and others have seen lines of mules using that quest npc, lines of mules using npcs to sell, constant 24/7 shouts for fell cleaves with rmt pling on every server. Gil used to be around 20 a mil then dived to 5 a mil with blinkers BECAUSE PLAYERS DIDN'T STRUGGLE TO MAKE GIL WITH BLINKERS THUS NO ONE NEEDED TO PURCHASE GIL. Now that blinking is nerfed Gil has shot back up, rmt are still at it and the price for a cleave gas increased. Pretending this had nothing to do with RMT is foolish, sure players abuse it too but not every player controls an alliance worth of characters running a business across all servers to abuse it.

[Llana_Virren]

I don't remember very many times where SE actually said "were nerfing this because RMT abuse it" so to me that defense is quite mundane. Myself and others have seen lines of mules using that quest npc, lines of mules using npcs to sell, constant 24/7 shouts for fell cleaves with rmt pling on every server. Gil used to be around 20 a mil then dived to 5 a mil with blinkers BECAUSE PLAYERS DIDN'T STRUGGLE TO MAKE GIL WITH BLINKERS THUS NO ONE NEEDED TO PURCHASE GIL. Now that blinking is nerfed Gil has shot back up, rmt are still at it and the price for a cleave gas increased. Pretending this had nothing to do with RMT is foolish, sure players abuse it too but not every player controls an alliance worth of characters running a business across all servers to abuse it.

When it comes to economics there's no difference between a legit player in a FC party, and an RMT mule. In both cases "artificial gil" is pumped into circulation. RMTs typically do not spend the gil, they pile it up and wait for a purchase.

The legit players, one could argue, were a greater influence on the economy because they would immediately (or weekly) convert all their Cruor and buy whatever they were saving it up for. This was immediate and continuous injection of "artificial gil" directly into circulation.

[Mirage]

Now that blinking is nerfed Gil has shot back up, rmt are still at it and the price for a cleave gas increased.

Definitely not true on my server, at least. It didn't take long until I saw shouts with several hours extra leech time for the same 1 million gil, and even yesterday I saw shouts offering 5 hours for 300k, rather than the usual 6 hours for 500k. That's 23k less gil per hour, after the price had stayed stable at 500k/6hours for months.

[Godofgods]

I don't remember very many times where SE actually said "were nerfing this because RMT abuse it" so to me that defense is quite mundane. Myself and others have seen lines of mules using that quest npc, lines of mules using npcs to sell, constant 24/7 shouts for fell cleaves with rmt pling on every server. Gil used to be around 20 a mil then dived to 5 a mil with blinkers BECAUSE PLAYERS DIDN'T STRUGGLE TO MAKE GIL WITH BLINKERS THUS NO ONE NEEDED TO PURCHASE GIL. Now that blinking is nerfed Gil has shot back up, rmt are still at it and the price for a cleave gas increased. Pretending this had nothing to do with RMT is foolish, sure players abuse it too but not every player controls an alliance worth of characters running a business across all servers to abuse it.

Thats quite true IMO. While SE may not have mentioned RMT directly, they are connected. But seeing lines of mules lined up at quest npc could simply be made illegal. Justified or not, it would have help keep inflation down longer. And its kinda hard for the STF to miss something like that in-game.

And this method of acquiring gill did rly hurt the RMT due to ppl simply not needing to use their service. The Nerf will make it harder for a lot of ppl to make Gil, especially those with limited time. Which will drive up demand on RMT gill selling.




Definitely not true on my server, at least. It didn't take long until I saw shouts with several hours extra leech time for the same 1 million gil, and even yesterday I saw shouts offering 5 hours for 300k, rather than the usual 6 hours for 500k. That's 23k less gil per hour, after the price had stayed stable at 500k/6hours for months.

Definitely not the case on Odin. Prices for FC shouts lately have remained the same. (around 100k/hour). But considering you cant get some of that gill back through curor, you could say that you are effectively paying a lot more.

[Mirage]

Well, to be fair, whenever there is just a single FC party in progress, prices for that party are about the same as before. However, whenever there is another one, they quickly decrease several tens of thousands per hour, which indicates that there probably isn't enough people willing to pay 100k/h to fill two alliances anymore.

Before the nerf, I find it likely that a lot more people that in reality weren't very rich still got themselves FC leeched at full price, because they felt like they didn't actually lose money on it. Now, however, they actually would lose money, so they just don't feel like joining the most expensive ones.

In fact, before the nerf, you could pay 500k for 6 hours, pay for it with cruor-gil, and still come out of it with more cruor than you had before. Because of that, even if you didn't need the exp, it would be smart to join such parties simply for free money. I actually seriously considered doing this myself, but now, it is not a viable option unless I really really need some cruor to spend on brews, atmacite, or something like that.

[Kristal]

When it comes to economics there's no difference between a legit player in a FC party, and an RMT mule. In both cases "artificial gil" is pumped into circulation. RMTs typically do not spend the gil, they pile it up and wait for a purchase.

The legit players, one could argue, were a greater influence on the economy because they would immediately (or weekly) convert all their Cruor and buy whatever they were saving it up for. This was immediate and continuous injection of "artificial gil" directly into circulation.

RMT don't pile up gil, they need to get rid of it before their account is banned. I would agree however, that more players generate gil this way then RMT simply due to the non-competitive nature of the gilfountain and the need to do so due to price hiking.

[Kristal]

Few may remember the below thread a while back? (It's been bumped recently.)

We've all been doing it by using cruor to buy chocobo blinkers then NPCing them for gil for a long time now. The dev team should by now be well aware of this. It could be eliminated, trivially and without side-effects, by adjusting the NPC sale price of chocobo blinkers. But they have refused to do so. I can only conclude that the dev team is perfectly fine with the idea of converting cruor to gil.

However, this procedure is tedious and requires lots of inventory space. So I propose that an NPC should be added to convert cruor to gil directly. There's even a ready-made lore explanation--it's already been stated in the Voidwatch storyline that Jeuno needs cruor for its anti-Voidwalker efforts and is always wanting more. Jeuno is of course a very wealthy city, made even more so by the fact that they literally mint gil. It would be trivial both code-wise and lore-wise to do it and it would make our lives a lot easier. So why not?

Poetic justice? Irony? The culprit of the blinkerbust? Foolish mortal taunting the SE gods just once too many?

[scaevola]

I think a deflation is very unlikely, it would take years of the current game pace to take even remotely enough money out of the economy to even get back to where we were before Blinkers.

Well, yes and no. You're right that it will take forever to actually get all that money out of the economy, but that doesn't rule out the possbility (probability?) of either extreme wealth inequality as the people who consistently farm the stuff a whole lot of people want in huge quantities (currency, alex) take all the liquid cash and then run out of buyers, or just good old-fashioned balkanization as everybody sits on their stacks waiting for a crash that never comes. Either of these would result in price drops.

[Arcon]

Well, yes and no. You're right that it will take forever to actually get all that money out of the economy, but that doesn't rule out the possbility (probability?) of either extreme wealth inequality as the people who consistently farm the stuff a whole lot of people want in huge quantities (currency, alex) take all the liquid cash and then run out of buyers, or just good old-fashioned balkanization as everybody sits on their stacks waiting for a crash that never comes. Either of these would result in price drops.

Very true, but I don't think either case is very likely. Dynamis farming can be (and is) done by almost everyone, so if liquidity is an issue, people have a way around it. People who have lots of money are happy to spend it even now (relics were always in big demand, but I also noticed people started making a lot of mythics even), so money can still be readily obtained. And people who hoard money for the purpose of future investment is pretty rare, most are happy with the current influx of cash and are spending it wherever they can. People playing this game usually have short-sighted goals, very few people plan far ahead speculating on the economy.

However, that's just my suspicion based on what I see right now, it's hard to predict an accurate development without knowing what influence future game content (or even changes to the current content) will have on the economy.

[scaevola]

Dynamis farming can be (and is) done by almost everyone, so if liquidity is an issue, people have a way around it. People who have lots of money are happy to spend it even now (relics were always in big demand, but I also noticed people started making a lot of mythics even), so money can still be readily obtained.

Most players probably CAN handle farming Dynamis with modest success (100-150 currency in a two-hour session, maybe, for someone of mediocre means? I dunno), but I don't think there are very many players (maybe a couple dozen per server, if that) who really hit the bricks to pull up 200+ per day for the purpose of selling as opposed to making their own relic. What I'm talking about is wealth concentrating in the hands of these guys specifically, which would deflate prices as the currently-wealthy folks making their relics have less and less money to spend on anything else (including more relics).

Of course, none of that really matters, because there are plenty of ways to make money and Adoulin will have even more.

[Luvbunny]

Agree, money is LESS of a problem now. Even with blinker nerf. You do not need gil for making your empyrean gears +1, or +2. You can easily get decent abyssea accesories while you do Voidwatch. You can do Campaign if you need cells for Voidwatch. Meeble Burrow is cheap to do. Walk of Echoes is cheap to do. Voidwatch and Walk of Echoes will get you enough spending money for food etc. The only reason you need gil is for mythic and relic. One of those two can be farmed daily if you have the dedication. You can easily sell abyssea NM pop items for 10k-100k each depending on which pop set. So yeah, I don't get it why people complaining about this. As new returning players your option are limited unless you have one farmer job to 95-99. Stop leveling useless jobs that will never get you a place in endgame, abyssea farming or render you useless in most farming activities. Do that when you can steadily pull gill out of your ass with your farmer jobs :P

[Godofgods]

Stop leveling useless jobs that will never get you a place in endgame, abyssea farming or render you useless in most farming activities.

Yea! Only lvl jobs that will make u gill! To hell with what you want or like to do!!!

[Mirage]

Or level both jobs that are fun, and jobs that are profitable. Oh wait... you can't level multiple jobs on the same character in this game.

[Daniel]

This has probably already been said, but choco blinkers were bringing huge amounts of inflation to the game. I am glad SE decided to do something about it. You all want a short cut for making money in game, but the more short cuts there are, and the more they are abused, the less and less the money is worth...

[Kennx]

I still stick to my saying.... RMT dont go away because SE/FFXI/FFIXV runs them..... GM call them all the time they do nothing.. point poven... lowering Blinkers.... makes more people use RMT sites.... see!

[katz]

well done SE take the gil out of the game and everything stops.... no one is buying craft items now, they dont have the gil.

[katz]

Most players probably CAN handle farming Dynamis with modest success (100-150 currency in a two-hour session, maybe, for someone of mediocre means? I dunno), but I don't think there are very many players (maybe a couple dozen per server, if that) who really hit the bricks to pull up 200+ per day for the purpose of selling as opposed to making their own relic. What I'm talking about is wealth concentrating in the hands of these guys specifically, which would deflate prices as the currently-wealthy folks making their relics have less and less money to spend on anything else (including more relics).

Of course, none of that really matters, because there are plenty of ways to make money and Adoulin will have even more.
Assuming people have gil to buy them...oh wait they can ask the rmt for it. after all, they too lazy to farm their currencies, no way are they going to farm gil.

[Godofgods]

Most players probably CAN handle farming Dynamis with modest success (100-150 currency in a two-hour session, maybe, for someone of mediocre means? I dunno)

Assuming everyone has the job/equip/knowledge to do Dyna. And the areas arnt over crowed. And that every player has 2-3 hours every day to do it. And (my favorite) can actually stand Dyna! :D (I've never really liked doing it to begin with).

It can be a great source for a lot of ppl at the moment, ill admit. But its not for everyone.

[Mirage]

Assuming people have gil to buy them...oh wait they can ask the rmt for it. after all, they too lazy to farm their currencies, no way are they going to farm gil.

Hey I know. We could solve all the economy problems in the entire world if we just gave everyone on the entire planet a million dollars. No one would be poor anymore, I wonder why no one has done this already.

[Kristal]

well done SE take the gil out of the game and everything stops.... no one is buying craft items now, they dont have the gil.

There is still a crapton of gil clogging the economy. If noone is buying craft items, it's because there's no reason to craft.

[Godofgods]

There is still a crapton of gil clogging the economy. If noone is buying craft items, it's because there's no reason to craft.

Theirs still reason to craft things. You just cant sell them generaly. Which is a major deterent to anyone that wants to level a craft

[Demon6324236]

Probably because people are all being smart and holding their money so when prices go down they still have tons of gil. Think of it, less people buying things means prices go down, prices go down, your money stays the same or even goes up, and then you can buy more. No reason to buy things now when they are going to go down over the next few months anyways and be much cheaper, till then, all the smart people will be hoarding their money so they stay rich, rather than becoming poor with the rest of the market. Thats my stance at least, and its why I am keeping most of my gil.

[Godofgods]

Probably because people are all being smart and holding their money

The crafting market was like this long before this nerf

[Demon6324236]

Well the problem with crafting so far as I see it is that the mats for the only desired items are so expensive that the crafts cost more than the result, this is in the case of non-HQ, with getting HQs, the prices go so high almost no one is willing to pay, making it take weeks, or even months, to sell. Thats at least how it seems to me, I don't craft much and have no high ass craft, but it looks that way, and its why my Gold is still at 48ish.

[Godofgods]

prices of mets have gone down overall actually (for recipes 1-100). With mets dropping in chests in aby, vw, WoE, and just in general, theirs a fair amount more. But the final crafts either arnt selling much at all, or have dropped in price below the cost of mets. A very small example would be some of the ingots as of late. 1k for an ore (need 4 to make ingot) but ingot sells for 2k. As you get to higher items, that can rly become an issue. Before the Nerf didn't didn't mind to much, but after the Nerf, ppl need to start being a lot more careful or they will find themselves broke quick.

[Demon6324236]

Thats partly what I meant, the mats that drop from Aby and VW are easy, but the items made are almost worthless. The mainly useful crafted gear right now are Cursed/Hexed gear, they are only profitable with HQs, and take a long time to sell. Any NQ synth is a loss of money, and any HQ is rare, and take a long time to be profitable.

[katz]

Ive never used crour to get any gil because I was making gil from crafting. I dont buy mats from the ah because of the rmt guy who sits by the ah and buys all the cheap mats to npc. If you are from Lakshmi and a crafter, you know the tarus that sit next to the ah in port jeuno and runs to the npc. Hes done it for years, came from garuda, yet nothing is done about him. He is by far worst than any other gil trader because he stops genuine crafters levelling up crafts at reasonable prices forcing up the cost of crafts. He and his mules create inflation.

[Plasticleg]

I just NPC my mats for the lulz.
You sound mad that someone's making a profit off of you, like how crafters make a profit off of hyperinflation of HQ synths.
Funny, huh.

[Godofgods]

I just NPC my mats for the lulz.
You sound mad that someone's making a profit off of you, like how crafters make a profit off of hyperinflation of HQ synths.
Funny, huh.

Difference is crafters spent millions of gill and lots of time leveling their craft to be able to make these synths. Not to mention the time involved in gathering or crafting mets as well. Their may have been times where i sold a few items and made some gill, but that took a week of planning and 1-2 weeks of gathering/crafting mets to accomplish. Thats a bit different then standing at the ah trying to buy everything and npc it. (granted their are some ppl that go to the extreme in trying to make a profit, i wont deny)

I put all my drops up on AH generally. And often times it might be at less then npc price. Having started crafting in '07 (including all subs) i know pretty well how hard it can be to get leveling mets at times. So now that I'm lvl'ed i do my part to help others have their mets. And i do it without trying to rape their wallet. So it does annoy me when i see ppl buying everything to npc it. Especially when the profit might be a whole 50 Gil.

[Plasticleg]

Let me know when you give away some hexed gear -1 at a good-will discount.
I'll care then.