Perfect defense / embrava unbalance

[MarkovChain]

Do you remember when you were doing salvage and killed normal NMs, that didn't have insta death moves, when a boss's aoe would do 500 damage and was considered dangerous, when you could kill mobs even of the easiest kind without embrava ? This time has gone and we all regret it. SE has been designing mobs and content around PD and embrava since after abyssea, and it is getting in a very bad way in my opinion.

Here is an example of why embrava broke the game ; ADL is not killable without perfect defense, we have yet to see a reported kill, even with a complete alliance of 18. Why ? because SE designed it to cast tier IV - aga spells instantaneously, it casts all enfeeble with aoe version, has severely damaging TP moves (with added effetc silence, bind, terror, petification, blind) which he spams, has instant death TP moves, can split ad infinitum,etc. So they probably designed it with the idea to use PD, and what did players do ? They used perfect defense.


3 man ADL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_otAkCgFgY)

Here is a video showing why perfect defense is so unbalanced, as a mob that can't be killed with 18 suddenly becomes a joke with 3.

[revear]

i agree Said spell's are overpowered but SE would of thought them threw before implementing them well i hope.
but with 11 being out for this long what else were they ment to add to keep the casual players playing. game lacks the endgame people grew to love. its people like you that make me laugh get shit done then cry about it hoping it to be nerfed because of your epeen. have fun

[Arcon]

I'm pretty sure SE didn't think them through at all. They probably thought PD would be borderline useless, seeing how it's just an extended version of Invincible and no one uses that at all. They thought those two being a 2hr would restrict their uses to short fights, what they didn't take into account was people scheduling their events entirely around their availability. Given that, and the fact that there's several ways to reset your 2hr even in between 30min events, you can have Embrava up full time for anything that matters, and even PD for most of any event.

The problem is, one that even you will have revear, is that it reflects poorly on content. They see people clearing that shit easily, so they think it's ok to add harder content. However, that approach leaves us with no other option than to employ PD and Embrava strategies yet again, and god forbid you ever try without it. That leaves us with ill-designed events that don't require customized strategies and will always lock slots in for SCH and SMN in the party. If that's the kind of content you like, good for you, but it's not what I wanna play.

I just hope they adjust the current content before (or at the same time as) they nerf those two spells, otherwise FFXI will have a couple of dry months there.

[wish12oz]

SE already said they were nerfing PD and Embrava, whats the point of this thread?

[Demon6324236]

Pointing out how unless they change how certain content works, that once its nerfed it will become nearly, if not completely, impossible. As it was said, ADL with a full alliance is a pain, however with PD its doable with as little as a trio, NNI is currently doable without cheating, but requires Embrava for nearly the entire event from start to finish, once its nerfed, chances it will be won without cheats are nearly non-existent. All in all, the point is that if when they nerf these powers they don't nerf the power of mobs in certain content then said content may become impossible to win at all.

[Monchat]

In my opinion this trend from the developpers started in abyssea not after. Before abyssea you had content where the bosses had devastating moves but there were ways to counter them with a specified strategies (exclude AV and DL). For example everyone remembers Proto-Omega and pile pitch, Proto-Ultima and citadel Buster, salvage chariots and discoid, brainjack, homing missiles, suzaku and chaispell firaga III.. those moves coudl wipe you but they used them at specific points which allowed you to deal with it w/o trouble.


I remember when I came back after a 6 month break, started abyssea @ 90 cap and trying glavoid w/o any atma nor abyssites nor cruor buffs. They made those NMs so that yo u have to use what they give you (atmas and cruor buffs) to kill them. Imagine a mob like dragua w/o double HP for example lol.. would need at least 2 DD tanks and 2 healers per DD, bards for refresh because you cure bomb, he does 1k+ damage every move/spell.

In abyssea it is ok because it is the first instance of God mod enemies, and players were also given god mode. In one way it locked players to specified jobs (war nin whm blu blm thf) but it wasnt that bad since any combo could achieve what they came for, just with different efficiency.

Voidwatch: When they introduced it I had a lot of trouble 6-maning even city T2s (crab and slime). Suddenly I brought SMN and killed the slime (-> invincible KIs) and all vw mobs up to jeuno T2 became jokes. In this content too they give you means to make you invincible to counter mobs's instant death moves, but each VW update they escalated in the design of ADL-type of mobs. A mob that chainspells meteor, another that has a doom aura, mobs like gaunab that will do 2 aga3 and one tp move before you even engage. Come on, seriously. They can wipe an alliance whenever thay want... I don't call this design I call it lazyness.

Nyzul Isle: a lot was said about the need of embrava. Anyone recalls the name of the Bosses and of their TP moves? nope, you just fool's drink/ fana drink/ all JAs up and zerg them in 30s.... can hardly call them bosses, there are normal NMs stronger than them.

Which reminds me: AV. Will absolute virtue be killable by the random PJ player after the nerf? Buy your rings and belts while you can.

[Zirael]

Do you remember when you were doing salvage and killed normal NMs, that didn't have insta death moves, when a boss's aoe would do 500 damage and was considered dangerous, when you could kill mobs even of the easiest kind without embrava ? This time has gone and we all regret it. SE has been designing mobs and content around PD and embrava since after abyssea, and it is getting in a very bad way in my opinion.

Here is an example of why embrava broke the game ; ADL is not killable without perfect defense, we have yet to see a reported kill, even with a complete alliance of 18. Why ? because SE designed it to cast tier IV - aga spells instantaneously, it casts all enfeeble with aoe version, has severely damaging TP moves (with added effetc silence, bind, terror, petification, blind) which he spams, has instant death TP moves, can split ad infinitum,etc. So they probably designed it with the idea to use PD, and what did players do ? They used perfect defense.


3 man ADL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_otAkCgFgY)

Here is a video showing why perfect defense is so unbalanced, as a mob that can't be killed with 18 suddenly becomes a joke with 3.
The new Producer has already said he was aware of this issue and it would be addressed as a priority along with all jobs' 2h revamp.
Also, I remember (I think, can't really remember the name) Taint reporting in the BLuegartr Dynamis thread that they have killed ADL without PD, but it involved alliance and partial zombiying.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not particularly a fan of insta-death enemies. Even newest Meeble Burrows is plagued with that; insta-cast AoE Death, AoE Doom/weakness TP move (and Hollowed Water spam failing) or AoE ->1HP TP move, etc.

Edit: As a follow-up to Monchat's post, I'm not so worried about Absolute Virtue, since pretty much at this point everything from him is outdated side-grade/junk, but Pandemonium Warden drops Mulcibar's Scoria, and people will need to kill him reliably for Mythic99. Last form with it's multiiple Astral Flows probably still hurts quite a bit.

[Babekeke]

They already said that when they change PD and Embrava, they will be altering certain content that requires it to be accomplished. I'd just wait to see what alterations they do make, if any before complaining about it.

P.S. people have reported ADL kills without using PD. I'm sorry that they didn't send you a personal email to inform you.

Edit: here's the Producer's info:



In regards to the comments we have been seeing from users raising concern that certain content won’t be possible to complete if the effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava are reduced. This is something that even the Development Team is keeping in mind with these adjustments. With that said, we are planning to make necessary adjustments to not only the abilities, but to content as well.

For both existing content and content to come in the future, I believe that conditions where special monsters are created for the sole purpose of counteracting Perfect Defense and Embrava is not desirable at all. The main idea behind the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava is to correct the situation so it will not come to this.

[Monchat]

P.S. people have reported ADL kills without using PD. I'm sorry that they didn't send you a personal email to inform you.


It is certainly possible IMO with 3 SMN using a shock squall rotation, or 2 RDMs chainspell-stunning (note: I have no proof of that, just a guess, like the people who claimed it is possible w/o PD). How is that different from perfect defense in the end, though? It doesn't change the core of the problem: you have to make your self invincible (or make the mob uneable to act) to kill it..

[Zirael]

It is certainly possible IMO with 3 SMN using a shock squall rotation, or 2 RDMs chainspell-stunning (note: I have no proof of that, just a guess, like the people who claimed it is possible w/o PD). How is that different from perfect defense in the end, though? It doesn't change the core of the problem: you have to make your self invincible (or make the mob uneable to act) to kill it..
Trying and succeeding is proof good enough. People ddin't report it: "we think it's possible" but "we did it".

[Demon6324236]

This thread is likely not to ask if they will be nerfed, or if content will be nerfed with it, but rather to stress just how important it is that they nerf the content that requires it down to normal standards.

[revear]

Arcon i was pointing my finger to pchan for one. 2 most events are easy down with decent players and skill the fact PD and embrava is now used on everything is because it is easy access to get. make a mule book burn 30 abyysea cleave done easy as that. there is no achievement now that makes me feel WOW look at that, for example here is my ls back in 2009 killing PW when no one could http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM_2YviSqNg

[Caketime]

Don't worry guys and girls, soon there will be balance brought to PD and Embrava, then all we have to do is wait another 6 months for the bosses to reflect the changes. Diablo III sounds like a good time killer until then.

[MarkovChain]

Trying and succeeding is proof good enough. People ddin't report it: "we think it's possible" but "we did it".

They didn't do it or you would have seen it done in a video, it's just braging on video games forums. It's theorically possible with an army of shock squall, but it's too much of a bitch to be realistic (every move or spell would kill a SMN in range or an avatar in range, or silence it, or stone it, or stun/pull back it). I mean even AV didn't have every single move insta killing, just meteor was retarded.

Side effect overall in the game : defensive gear is useless, /nin is nearly useless, tanks are useless, healer are usless. Embrava is less of a problem imo because it's replacable by BRD, but as far as PD goes, you will not be able to clear many things without PD fully functionning.

Also someone mentionned Meeble Burrows ; it's not that bad since non of the mobs spam death or weakness moves (I didn't see any at least and it was on seen on the test server), embrava makes things smoother, but is probably not needed ( for the last boss, you would just need a stun and replace a sch with a DD)

[Zirael]

They didn't do it or you would have seen it done in a video, it's just braging on video games forums. It's theorically possible with an army of shock squall, but it's too much of a bitch to be realistic (every move or spell would kill a SMN in range or an avatar in range, or silence it, or stone it, or stun/pull back it). I mean even AV didn't have every single move insta killing, just meteor was retarded.

Side effect overall in the game : defensive gear is useless, /nin is nearly useless, tanks are useless, healer are usless. Embrava is less of a problem imo because it's replacable by BRD, but as far as PD goes, you will not be able to clear many things without PD fully functionning.

Also someone mentionned Meeble Burrows ; it's not that bad since non of the mobs spam death or weakness moves (I didn't see any at least and it was on seen on the test server), embrava makes things smoother, but is probably not needed ( for the last boss, you would just need a stun and replace a sch with a DD)
Dude, if they were claiming pigs can fly I'd ask for a video, but for something that I very much deem possible, I'm not so bothered. I don't play this game to record videos of everything I do either.
Like with that contest of yours for NNI win without cheats, I'm sure my group won without cheats twice (no fleehack, no lamp dat, no see through walls, not even Skype - the whole party), back when we were still doing it. If I told that to anyone and they didn't believe it possible - won't upset me much, not everyone is capable of assessing situations given a set number of constraints and facts. Hell, people even posted videos of just that, but then someone would still pop and say - I'm sure they start fleehacking as soon as they lose sight of the person recording the video!

[Arcon]

Arcon i was pointing my finger to pchan for one. 2 most events are easy down with decent players and skill the fact PD and embrava is now used on everything is because it is easy access to get. make a mule book burn 30 abyysea cleave done easy as that. there is no achievement now that makes me feel WOW look at that, for example here is my ls back in 2009 killing PW when no one could http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MM_2YviSqNg

I have no idea what you're trying to say. Current events are not easy without Embrava or PD, some may even border on impossible (Nyzul Uncharted for example). That video kinda proves that things were not ok. If no one else could kill it, as you so arrogantly claim, despite being out for years, it's not well designed content. PW and AV were shitty back in the day, if you compare that to current content you're calling it shitty as well.

It was tolerable with AV and PW, because they were niche cases. You could still get most of the good gear without doing them. It's different now, as everything good since Voidwatch was in Nyzul Uncharted, Legion, Einherjar, and now Meeble Burrows. It's as if every good piece of gear back in the day dropped off AV, and no one could clear it. That's bad content right there.

[Sarick]

I'm going to explain a few things I see wrong here and why.

I do think that these abilities are being overused because their effectiveness however, I see other issues with the original post that make it inapt.

First off. I don't know why you'd show this video using 3rd party gear swap tools. If you look when the WS is used there is a flood of 16 items that gets swapped instantly. A single macro doesn't have the capability to swap over 6 items at once like that.

Secondly, cheating and exploiting obviously aren't morale issues so why point out the exploited flaws after reaching the final stage? For this reason I agree with the (I got my 99+Glow, I'm special now change these to make me stay that way) mentality others have been cranky about.

Lastly, I see a bit of arrogance, someone clearly wants to flaunt their 99 weapon every chance they can. Just look at that sig.

Come on, if a person abused the features then post negative stuff after collecting the rewards it does sound a little hypocritical to me.

[Chuckytaru]

I'm going to explain a few things I see wrong here and why.

I do think that these abilities are being overused because their effectiveness however, I see other issues with the original post that make it inapt.

First off. I don't know why you'd show this video using of 3rd party gear swap tools. If you look when the WS is used there is a flood of 16 items that gets swapped instantly. A single macro doesn't have the capability to swap over 6 items at once like that.

Secondly, cheating and exploiting obviously aren't morale issues so why point out the exploited flaws after reaching the final stage? For this reason I agree with the (I got my 99+Glow, I'm special now change these to make me stay that way) mentality others have been cranky about.

Lastly, I see a bit of arrogance, someone clearly wants to flaunt their 99 weapon every chance they can. Just look at that sig.

Come on, if a person abused the features then post negative stuff after collecting the rewards it does sound a little hypocritical to me.

i dont know where my prev post is or why i dont see it anymore but yeah what you wrote here is exactly what i was thinking

[Kriegsgott]

Do you remember when you were doing salvage and killed normal NMs, that didn't have insta death moves, when a boss's aoe would do 500 damage and was considered dangerous, when you could kill mobs even of the easiest kind without embrava ? This time has gone and we all regret it. SE has been designing mobs and content around PD and embrava since after abyssea, and it is getting in a very bad way in my opinion.

Here is an example of why embrava broke the game ; ADL is not killable without perfect defense, we have yet to see a reported kill, even with a complete alliance of 18. Why ? because SE designed it to cast tier IV - aga spells instantaneously, it casts all enfeeble with aoe version, has severely damaging TP moves (with added effetc silence, bind, terror, petification, blind) which he spams, has instant death TP moves, can split ad infinitum,etc. So they probably designed it with the idea to use PD, and what did players do ? They used perfect defense.


3 man ADL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_otAkCgFgY)

Here is a video showing why perfect defense is so unbalanced, as a mob that can't be killed with 18 suddenly becomes a joke with 3.

did you buy all your Umbral Marrow's or got them with the didn very liked PD part ?
fix your head plz there is something wrong

[Raksha]

Here is an example of why embrava broke the game ; ADL is not killable without perfect defense



oh you.


Do people have any suggestions as to how SE could make fights challenging/interesting without requiring PD/embrava?

[revear]

I have no idea what you're trying to say. Current events are not easy without Embrava or PD, some may even border on impossible (Nyzul Uncharted for example). That video kinda proves that things were not ok. If no one else could kill it, as you so arrogantly claim, despite being out for years, it's not well designed content. PW and AV were shitty back in the day, if you compare that to current content you're calling it shitty as well.

It was tolerable with AV and PW, because they were niche cases. You could still get most of the good gear without doing them. It's different now, as everything good since Voidwatch was in Nyzul Uncharted, Legion, Einherjar, and now Meeble Burrows. It's as if every good piece of gear back in the day dropped off AV, and no one could clear it. That's bad content right there.

so you are saying nidhogg khim tia ixion sandworm aspid KB never had any good drops to then?
no offense but that was my best time in 11 killing shit and dominating the server and obtaining the rare items,
my question to u arcon where were u? at these times

[Caketime]

oh you.


Do people have any suggestions as to how SE could make fights challenging/interesting without requiring PD/embrava?

Wait, hold on a second. Fights right now with PD/Embrava are boring as hell, when were they ever interesting or challenging? The two spells by themselves are p. rad, but with them in use all the time and new content forcing it with instant KO moves, most jobs have no place in a group. Why bring a WHM when you can just have a SCH and SMN team buff up, maybe toss a Regen here and there and laugh all the way to the bank?

I'm a little pissed that I've spent so much time and energy gearing and skilling my WHM just to be sidelined by literally every group in favor of a SCH because of ONE spell. That goes without mentioning how pointless it is for me to bother with status heals in most boss fights because of status auras, my job has pretty much been retired by design.

[Arcon]

Come on, if a person abused the features then post negative stuff after collecting the rewards it does sound a little hypocritical to me.

It's Pchan, what did you expect? He is an arrogant hypocrite, everyone knows that. But he was spot on with his complaint. People need to stop looking at who said it and instead look at what's being said.


Do people have any suggestions as to how SE could make fights challenging/interesting without requiring PD/embrava?

Were you around at any point during the 8 years before Abyssea? There was multitude of endgame content (everything but AV and PW) that was challenging but beatable without exploiting game mechanics like that. Things involving hate control, crowd control, physical/magical damage phases, melees timing their battle phases, tanks and backup tanks, positioning, kiting, etc.


so you are saying nidhogg khim tia ixion sandworm aspid KB never had any good drops to then?

No, I said exactly the opposite. Read my post again and try to understand it this time.

[Damane]

oh you.


Do people have any suggestions as to how SE could make fights challenging/interesting without requiring PD/embrava?

how about by starting: let VIT/Def gear matter
fixing the enmity for a real tank
by letting m.acc magian trial staffs actually matter in debuffs.
by letting debuffs actually matter!
by haveing only 1 dangerous move that is stunnable tough
by limiting AoE moves of mobs to 15' so mages dont get one shot because they stand a tad too close doing their job
list goes on.

[Kriegsgott]

how about by starting: let VIT/Def gear matter
fixing the enmity for a real tank
by letting m.acc magian trial staffs actually matter in debuffs.
by letting debuffs actually matter!
by haveing only 1 dangerous move that is stunnable tough
by limiting AoE moves of mobs to 15' so mages dont get one shot because they stand a tad too close doing their job
list goes on.

complete the list i like the most stuff you posted and 100% agree !

[MarkovChain]

so you are saying nidhogg khim tia ixion sandworm aspid KB never had any good drops to then?
no offense but that was my best time in 11 killing shit and dominating the server and obtaining the rare items,
my question to u arcon where were u? at these times

Dominating the server when Ixion, sandworm, KB, khimaira were garbage ? Not sure what this has to do with the discussion anyway.


did you buy all your Umbral Marrow's or got them with the didn very liked PD part ?
translation please



fix your head plz there is something wrong

Inbefore nyzlulz.

[Reain]

The only thing that you have to get hit by is either Oblivion Smash x2 or Violent Rupture x2 when it splits. SMN can generally survive either with Stoneskin and PDT gear.

Also I have killed ADL without PD.

[MarkovChain]

You have killed it in your dreams.

[Zirael]

You have killed it in your dreams.
Oh god, not again this discussion.

[Demon6324236]

They didn't do it or you would have seen it done in a video
You have killed it in your dreams...........

[Damane]

The only thing that you have to get hit by is either Oblivion Smash x2 or Violent Rupture x2 when it splits. SMN can generally survive either with Stoneskin and PDT gear.

Also I have killed ADL without PD.

you see I can survive those on SCH too with PDT gear and stoneskin. The problem is, until you actually are able to reach out to your melees to cure them (because you need to save yourself first) they will most likely be dead. If those AoE would be only 15' instead of 30', ADL would be managable without PD. The problem is if your support dies, your front line will eat dirt too.
The problem is due to largely enhanced AoE range of ADL, mages cant stand anywhere safe + be in cureing range, because his AoE exeeds 21'

[Raksha]

Were you around at any point during the 8 years before Abyssea? There was multitude of endgame content (everything but AV and PW) that was challenging but beatable without exploiting game mechanics like that. Things involving hate control, crowd control, physical/magical damage phases, melees timing their battle phases, tanks and backup tanks, positioning, kiting, etc.



Sure I was around back then, but I'm talking about new stuff, not just rehashing old stuff (as fun as it was).

[Sarick]

It's Pchan, what did you expect? He is an arrogant hypocrite, everyone knows that. But he was spot on with his complaint. People need to stop looking at who said it and instead look at what's being said.

I said this >>

I do think that these abilities are being overused because their effectiveness however, I see other issues with the original post that make it inapt.

Did you even read my full post? I didn't ninja edit anything extra in, if you look a post later you can see someone quoted me. Outside the removal of the word "of" nothing has changed.

I'm spot on already. Question is, why are you trying to preach this to me after I already explained everything?

[Insaniac]

The only reason Pchan made this thread was to indirectly brag about killing ADL with 3 accounts. It would be a hilarious turn of events if SE saw this and decided MNK needed nerfing.

[Reain]

you see I can survive those on SCH too with PDT gear and stoneskin. The problem is, until you actually are able to reach out to your melees to cure them (because you need to save yourself first) they will most likely be dead. If those AoE would be only 15' instead of 30', ADL would be managable without PD. The problem is if your support dies, your front line will eat dirt too.
The problem is due to largely enhanced AoE range of ADL, mages cant stand anywhere safe + be in cureing range, because his AoE exeeds 21'

I should point out that we don't usually kill it without Perfect Defense we just did one time because we ran out of Astral flows and everyone was up for it.

I don't try and stand out of AoE. I stand with my back to the palace to prevent the knock back. If it's violent rupture it's easy cause I can just squall as soon as my melee are on it.

If it's Oblivion Smash it's harder because it's does more damage and I can't squall till the add effect paralyze is off. My whm is usually gets it off me quickly. Lately I've been carrying remedies too.

If I were playing SCH I would be dropping PT after Embrava and Regen V and locking Tabula Rasa on the ???.



The only reason Pchan made this thread was to indirectly brag about killing ADL with 3 accounts.

Agreed. I think anyone who has done ADL will think that he was lucky that it didn't summon again and that the first one they targetted was the real one. (He might have just did ADLs till the first one was the real one though.)

[Shadowsong]

Agreed. I think anyone who has done ADL will think that he was lucky that it didn't summon again and that the first one they targetted was the real one. (He might have just did ADLs till the first one was the real one though.)

Not a single person doubts this is what happend lol. It took him like 2 weeks to post that video lol

[Arcon]

Question is, why are you trying to preach this to me after I already explained everything?

I'm not, my post was entirely unrelated to you. I just quoted you because you were the last of the few posts complaining about Pchan being a hypocrite, as if that somehow made his point invalid.


The only reason Pchan made this thread was to indirectly brag about killing ADL with 3 accounts. It would be a hilarious turn of events if SE saw this and decided MNK needed nerfing.

While that would be hilarious, it still wouldn't stop him from bragging. MNK is nowhere near as good as he thinks it is, yet he will always pretend that it's overgodly and say so every chance he gets because he's too lazy or unable to play any other jobs.

[Babekeke]

I'm not, my post was entirely unrelated to you. I just quoted you because you were the last of the few posts complaining about Pchan being a hypocrite, as if that somehow made his point invalid.

What makes his post invalid is the fact that SE already stated that the content will be adjusted, so this is just a load of arguing for nothing.

[Trisscar]

SE already said they were nerfing PD and Embrava, whats the point of this thread?

Doesn't address the core issue. That the mobs are unbeatable without.

[Demon6324236]

They said they are nerfing PD/Embrava, they said they are nerfing the content that requires them, we covered that.

[MarkovChain]

What makes his post invalid is the fact that SE already stated that the content will be adjusted, so this is just a load of arguing for nothing.

No. They said they would try it, they also said that they would first ajust the 2hours then see if they need to change the content. Needless to say, you have to be prepared to long months of unbeatable ADL or Nyzul, so get prepared.


They said they are nerfing PD/Embrava, they said they are nerfing the content that requires them, we covered that.

So wait, SE claim they will ajust the content (when they have time, after X or Y) and you automatically think they know what they will be doing. I'm just pointing out that changing perfect defense means they have to completely revamp adl and legion. It's not the same as "ajusting" the content. I think we have pretty much establish that devs don't play the game right ? It was one of the player census request by the way.

[Fupafighter]

I'm not, my post was entirely unrelated to you. I just quoted you because you were the last of the few posts complaining about Pchan being a hypocrite, as if that somehow made his point invalid.



While that would be hilarious, it still wouldn't stop him from bragging. MNK is nowhere near as good as he thinks it is, yet he will always pretend that it's overgodly and say so every chance he gets because he's too lazy or unable to play any other jobs.

Yep lol. He told me sam and Mnk Tp at around the same speed. And laughed when I said I could self skillchain w.o meditate or sekka lol....

[Caketime]

This thread needs more hugs.

[Damane]

I should point out that we don't usually kill it without Perfect Defense we just did one time because we ran out of Astral flows and everyone was up for it.

I don't try and stand out of AoE. I stand with my back to the palace to prevent the knock back. If it's violent rupture it's easy cause I can just squall as soon as my melee are on it.

If it's Oblivion Smash it's harder because it's does more damage and I can't squall till the add effect paralyze is off. My whm is usually gets it off me quickly. Lately I've been carrying remedies too.

If I were playing SCH I would be dropping PT after Embrava and Regen V and locking Tabula Rasa on the ???.




Agreed. I think anyone who has done ADL will think that he was lucky that it didn't summon again and that the first one they targetted was the real one. (He might have just did ADLs till the first one was the real one though.)

i actually do that, locking Tabula Rasa and so on with magian specs. and the ??? for up to 3 ADL fights. I place myself on the pilars so I am outside of magical AoE, but inside of cure range, the pillars prevent knockback.
Still the main problem is its huge AoE range that is 30' or more, (my mule actually got killed 35' away from it). The fight is nowhere near CONSISTENTLY (key word) winnable without PD and/or Embrava and depends totaly on if ADL will be a dick and picked the right one. Hell even with PD/Embrava he can dick you out of a win.

[MarkovChain]

ADL can wipe you any time with PD and embrava. Tera slash can wipe 3 ppl at once even if they are at 3 different positions. It's his secret nynja technique to kill you. IMO if they they nerf embrava, the only way to make it winnable is entirely remove dynamis implosion, and make death on tera slash a much lower proc rate. After that it needs to spam spells les often. Aka a normal mob. People would tank it with 2 DD and 4 support like the good old day or like you do with DL. SE is stuck in a dilemma between making ADL as trivial as DL, which means the market will be flooded marrows and everyone will have access to a level 99 weapon, as well as 250marrows being easy to obtain, or leaving it as is and transforming NQ level 99 in impossible to get items. A possible way to fix all this, from a balance point of view, is too make the pop NMs twice stronger so that they can only be killed with 6+ persons, while making ADL about as strong as NQ DL.

For embrava and nyzul, the way to ajust the event if embrava is nerfed is to allow 20/40/60/80 bosses to all drop KI that contibute to the final form of the level 100 gear, while making F100 no longer 100%.

[Reain]

I wasn't really arguing that it was consistently killable without PD. I was arguing that it was possible.

30 AoE doesn't matter because everyone is next to the palace. It's more a matter of squalling it on pop. Dropping to just above 40% and hoping it chooses to summon over TPing/casting. At 40%+ the only moves it has access to on split are violent rupture/oblivion smash. Survive that then it's a matter of squalling again before it kills you and dropping it asap having weapon bash/blade bash ready incase it unstuns before you kill it. Squalling again if you kill fake.

Most groups are capable of killing 2 forms before it re-summons rather than rely on choosing the right one.

The things that will screw you over Tera Slash(only done under 40%ish?), dynamic implosion (only done under 15% ish) and death aren't stopped by Perfect Defense anyway they are stopped by stun locking.

[Fupafighter]

Deleting posts haha. As far as embrava goes, for events like nyzle isle, it won't make that much of a difference. It will still come down to luck... It's more of the movement speed issue that kills people in nyzle. Could just swap a DD for a Cor. If your cor is good, it will be like having a heavy DD. Last stand is pretty good on fodder mobs.

[Zagen]

Deleting posts haha. As far as embrava goes, for events like nyzle isle, it won't make that much of a difference. It will still come down to luck... It's more of the movement speed issue that kills people in nyzle. Could just swap a DD for a Cor. If your cor is good, it will be like having a heavy DD. Last stand is pretty good on fodder mobs.
Either your group has been very very lucky or you don't know what you're talking about.

Can you do NNI without Embrava? Sure. Will you have close to the same win rate? Nope.

[Monchat]

either replace 2 SCH by 2 WHM or 1 brd + 1 whm or 1 bard+1 sch. Would have to resing marches every 3 minutes. instant cast every 10 min (nightingale). 2 WHM might be uneasy on MP but doable with /RDM and elixir temp/vile elixir med. In the end you lose something:casting marches every 3 minutes will waste ~2minutes. and the healer cannot heal everyone on kill all and lamps. What's more this time soulflayers will dispell every possible buff... so yeah, it sucks.

Edit: also if the brd doesnt have relic or empy instrument.. its more than 2 minutes..

[Babekeke]

No. They said they would try it, they also said that they would first ajust the 2hours then see if they need to change the content. Needless to say, you have to be prepared to long months of unbeatable ADL or Nyzul, so get prepared.

Strange how you got that from this:


In regards to the comments we have been seeing from users raising concern that certain content won’t be possible to complete if the effects of Perfect Defense and Embrava are reduced. This is something that even the Development Team is keeping in mind with these adjustments. With that said, we are planning to make necessary adjustments to not only the abilities, but to content as well.

For both existing content and content to come in the future, I believe that conditions where special monsters are created for the sole purpose of counteracting Perfect Defense and Embrava is not desirable at all. The main idea behind the adjustments to Perfect Defense and Embrava is to correct the situation so it will not come to this.

I appreciate that English might not be your first language, but you're reading things that aren't there. Unless parts of the original JP version were left out in the translation, he's saying both, content and JAs, will be changed at the same time.

[Tamoa]

I do agree that designing events/fights in such a manner that the only reliable way to successfully complete them is by using PD/Embrava, is poor design indeed.

However, as others have pointed out - the fact that this thread has been made by someone who's finished relic afterglow trial and who claims to earn millions of gil on farming ADL by using the PD strategy - well that just makes my head spin. Not sure what to make of that to be honest...

[Kriegsgott]

Strange how you got that from this:



I appreciate that English might not be your first language, but you're reading things that aren't there. Unless parts of the original JP version were left out in the translation, he's saying both, content and JAs, will be changed at the same time.

take care posts geting deleted if you make him look stupid ;)
funny how he made a joke about my english with "translation plz" and cant take the joke back if he made some mistakes...

[Fupafighter]

Either your group has been very very lucky or you don't know what you're talking about.

Can you do NNI without Embrava? Sure. Will you have close to the same win rate? Nope.
What do they have order lamps listed as? 5%? That means on an average run, you shouldn't even see an order lamp. Therefore, you have a decent chance at winning. Seriously look at the floors. The only things that kill a run are big "kill all" floors and order lamps. The rest are very winable in a very short period of time, if you do it right. It comes down to how fast you can get to your target for the most part. I had a run where we had 14 minutes left, meaning we technically only needed 1 sch. This will still be winnable. All this talk about things becoming impossible is silly.

[Fupafighter]

either replace 2 SCH by 2 WHM or 1 brd + 1 whm or 1 bard+1 sch. Would have to resing marches every 3 minutes. instant cast every 10 min (nightingale). 2 WHM might be uneasy on MP but doable with /RDM and elixir temp/vile elixir med. In the end you lose something:casting marches every 3 minutes will waste ~2minutes. and the healer cannot heal everyone on kill all and lamps. What's more this time soulflayers will dispell every possible buff... so yeah, it sucks.
WTF are you talking about lol? The bard would be following the DD around buffing them, not sitting at the lamp buffing...Healing whms sub sch also. Soulflayers shouldn't live long enough to dispel people. Sch > whm. Sch can heal, do decent damage and embrava STILL after nerf. Corsair would also be a much more viable option. Throw up a chaos with a double up and walla that should cap your DD's attack even on toughs. Not to mention a cor/war can throw out some decent numbers with last stand. Can sleep, dispel, and even give movement speed to party everytime you go up a floor.
Seriously dude, you have afterglow and don't understand how to setup and event? lol

[Kriegsgott]

WTF are you talking about lol? The bard would be following the DD around buffing them, not sitting at the lamp buffing...Healing whms sub sch also. Soulflayers shouldn't live long enough to dispel people. Sch > whm. Sch can heal, do decent damage and embrava STILL after nerf. Corsair would also be a much more viable option. Throw up a chaos with a double up and walla that should cap your DD's attack even on toughs. Not to mention a cor/war can throw out some decent numbers with last stand. Can sleep, dispel, and even give movement speed to party everytime you go up a floor.
Seriously dude, you have afterglow and don't understand how to setup and event? lol

dont mind him/she/it its probably lolchan unless he like /autofollowing him almost all the time the play together

[MarkovChain]

What do they have order lamps listed as? 5%? That means on an average run, you shouldn't even see an order lamp.

This is why you shouldn't argue probability with me.


If your cor is good, it will be like having a heavy DD

If cor was a DD I think we'd know it by now.

[Zagen]

What do they have order lamps listed as? 5%? That means on an average run, you shouldn't even see an order lamp. Therefore, you have a decent chance at winning. Seriously look at the floors. The only things that kill a run are big "kill all" floors and order lamps. The rest are very winable in a very short period of time, if you do it right. It comes down to how fast you can get to your target for the most part. I had a run where we had 14 minutes left, meaning we technically only needed 1 sch. This will still be winnable. All this talk about things becoming impossible is silly.
How do lamps have anything to do with a SCH? They don't. Embrava is for kill floors not lamp floors.

If you can't see how having 72hp regen, 6tp regain, and 34% haste from 1 spell doesn't heavily increase your speed as a DD on kill floors I don't know what to say.

Your anecdotal run sounds like a lucky run, on top of that you admitted to having a SCH which means you were probably Embravaed. Let me know when you do runs without Embrava and have 14 minutes left.

As Monchat pointed any other combination works but costs time and increases the risk of losing.

I never said it wasn't winnable, heck at 1% chance of winning it's still winnable. That doesn't mean it's a good thing.

[Fupafighter]

So what you mean to tell me is, is that they will nerf embrava to the point where it will have no gain at all on the DD. What do you think they're going to do to embrava. Reduce how long it last, haste, regain? And yes corsair is a DD lol. Sorry it's not OMFG I can resolution for 13k with mighty strikes, but it can still dish out good damage. You probably just see shitty corsair that rock 85 arma and wildfire for 1200 in voidwatch lol. I'm saying embrava being nerfed even half would still result in wins at a decent rate. Sorry if you don't get the best armor in the game in 30 minutes guys. Post nerf, I will still take sch and cor over whm and brd because they offer alot more utility/damage. Anyone who opposes that notion better give valid reasons. Pchan, these are fodder mobs, not legion mobs. They die fast. I could shit on your mnk with cor given the fact that the level of the monster isn't effecting my damage greatly, and If it is, can fall back on wildfire.

[Demon6324236]

So wait, SE claim they will ajust the content (when they have time, after X or Y) and you automatically think they know what they will be doing. I'm just pointing out that changing perfect defense means they have to completely revamp adl and legion. It's not the same as "ajusting" the content. I think we have pretty much establish that devs don't play the game right ? It was one of the player census request by the way.
Pointing out how unless they change how certain content works, that once its nerfed it will become nearly, if not completely, impossible. As it was said, ADL with a full alliance is a pain, however with PD its doable with as little as a trio, NNI is currently doable without cheating, but requires Embrava for nearly the entire event from start to finish, once its nerfed, chances it will be won without cheats are nearly non-existent. All in all, the point is that if when they nerf these powers they don't nerf the power of mobs in certain content then said content may become impossible to win at all.1st thing I said in this thread, I understand the idea, I was simply saying we already covered that they said they are doing both things, no point in people coming in to say they are nerfing Embrava/PD, or to say they are nerfing the content, as I assume you made this to stress the importance.

[MarkovChain]

So what you mean to tell me is, is that they will nerf embrava to the point where it will have no gain at all on the DD. What do you think they're going to do to embrava. Reduce how long it last, haste, regain? And yes corsair is a DD lol..

Obviously they will nerf haste / regen / regain because that's what it's used for ¿ But the point of the thread is to wake up the players so that that they put pressure on the devs and that they actually revamp nyzul/adl/legion because an ajustement means fail. I'm not sure if they realize how legion,adl or nyzul is done.

[Demon6324236]

Well the question with the nerfing is, how will they nerf it & how far? Half the potency? Remove some of the effects? We don't know much about it which does make it hard to know what to expect as well.

[Monchat]

my guess is duration. 3mins non extendable and tabula rasa wears off after use. They wont nerf the potency (might actually increase it) otherwise it will be useless. Increase potency (capped magic haste + 10/tic regain +100/tic regen, say) for a duration of 3 min sounds acceptable to me.

[Zagen]

What I haven't been able to figure out is how the hell any of this stuff got tested as playable before going live without using these strategies. Maybe the real secret there is they didn't actually have testers run through different group setups to see the ratios of wins to losses.

[Caketime]

What I haven't been able to figure out is how the hell any of this stuff got tested as playable before going live without using these strategies. Maybe the real secret there is they didn't actually have testers run through different group setups to see the ratios of wins to losses.

Why test content at all when they can just patch away all of their problems after release? Sure it takes them a painful amount of time to notice when things go awry, and longer to fix anything that might be broken, but at least they do something. Sometmes. But not what anyone wants, or is mutually beneficial.

[Sarick]

Well the question with the nerfing is, how will they nerf it & how far? Half the potency? Remove some of the effects? We don't know much about it which does make it hard to know what to expect as well.

Perfect Defense and Embrava made incompatible like Refresh isn't compatible with sublimation.

[Demon6324236]

That wouldn't do all to much imo... Just lower kill speed but keep you invincible, so you just have to kill faster.

[Arcon]

That wouldn't do all to much imo... Just lower kill speed but keep you invincible, so you just have to kill faster.

That isn't quite as easy as it sounds, though, because Embrava was a huge boost in that respect, and PD doesn't last very long. You'd have to compensate with at least a(nother) Bard for that, and it still wouldn't have the same effect, especially if you're tight on people. Also it doesn't provide the convenience for other jobs, that Embrava does, for example mages not needing to be healed after getting hit with AoE, because Embrava can Regen it. You won't have that luxury without it.

[Demon6324236]

True, just saying that if thats all they were to do I doubt it would fix much. Just have to find more ways to kill faster, while events that only rely on one of them for certain (ADL/NNI) will go on without a problem.

[Fupafighter]

Yeah they're not going to make it so you lose all the effects of sch 2 hour. Wtf would be the point. If they nerf it that bad, I suggest SE takes a look at warriors going around breaking over 50k damage in 30 seconds....

[Monchat]

That wouldn't do all to much imo... Just lower kill speed but keep you invincible, so you just have to kill faster.

that wouldn't change much as you do no need to use both currently. For ADL only PD for nyzul only Embrava. People use both for convenience. The regen/regainn is quite useless on short fights/mobs that one shot you, while extremely usefull on long events like nyzul.

[Demon6324236]

that wouldn't change much as you do no need to use both currently. For ADL only PD for nyzul only Embrava. People use both for convenience. The regen/regainn is quite useless on short fights/mobs that one shot you, while extremely usefull on long events like nyzul.

That was kinda my point. In events you only need one of them it wouldn't really hurt you, then again so far as I understand, Legion isn't so friendly so it may be a bit different in that case, it depends on the event, but if it is really a nerf then just making them not stack wouldn't be enough, it would effect like 1~2 events, the rest would just keep 1 of the 2 buffs and leave the other alone in favor of something else that might give similar effect.

[Monchat]

quoted wrong person lol sorry.

[Demon6324236]

:x
........

[Damane]

That was kinda my point. In events you only need one of them it wouldn't really hurt you, then again so far as I understand, Legion isn't so friendly so it may be a bit different in that case, it depends on the event, but if it is really a nerf then just making them not stack wouldn't be enough, it would effect like 1~2 events, the rest would just keep 1 of the 2 buffs and leave the other alone in favor of something else that might give similar effect.

pre embrava, people used brd 2 hours songs (2x march) in conjunction with PD. Your idea of not leting embrava and PD stack would actually just change nothing.

[Demon6324236]

Why do people keep quoting me as if it were my idea? x_x;

[Luvbunny]

pre embrava, people used brd 2 hours songs (2x march) in conjunction with PD. Your idea of not leting embrava and PD stack would actually just change nothing.

Totally agree, there is always another new thing to exploit. SE needs to grow some IQ when creating these new NMs and not making them hit players like a truck where the only strategy viable is to zerg them or you die first.

[Iakothm]

thing is... no matter what gets nerfed there will always be some other thing to come along first it was rdm/nin basically doing EVERYTHING solo and summoner burns and blm burns and well the list goes on. Thing is players find something that works best and keep abusing it since afterall its the most efficient way. Changing Embrava and PD are not gonna fix the problem. Nerfing Bosses won't fix the problem either since people will still take the best and fastest solution. One day it's this another day it's that.

Also I figure this whole thread isn't about the topic as much as it was for the OP to show off their sig.

[Damane]

thing is... no matter what gets nerfed there will always be some other thing to come along first it was rdm/nin basically doing EVERYTHING solo and summoner burns and blm burns and well the list goes on. Thing is players find something that works best and keep abusing it since afterall its the most efficient way. Changing Embrava and PD are not gonna fix the problem. Nerfing Bosses won't fix the problem either since people will still take the best and fastest solution. One day it's this another day it's that.

Also I figure this whole thread isn't about the topic as much as it was for the OP to show off their sig.

you missed the point, its not about abuseing. The problem is that the dev team created content around embrava and PD because they were so strong. its far easier to creat content around normal jobs then haveing to factor in overpowered 2 hours. nothing is wrong with SMN burns BLM burns or RDM/NIN tanking, it took some dedication and time. However something IS wrong if you have to use 2 hours as a cruch to get somewhere conveniantly.

[Iakothm]

and you can do most of the stuff without those 2 spells just it's alot harder. I wouldn't say this stuff was based around PD or Embrava since you can do them without it sure it takes more people but hey that's the point of a mmo. Like I said there are ways to do everything in this game no matter what people will still find and take the best and fastest solution. You say that people are using the 2 hours as a crutch but that's not because it was based around that it's because most people don't know how to play their roles anymore because all they learn in aby and vw and all over is to zerg everything down as fast as possible.

[Byrth]

Looks like at least one of your wishes came true!
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/112776-Dev-Tracker-Findings-Posts?p=5446814&viewfull=1#post5446814

[Sasaraixx]

They completely remove the Regain effect AND cut the duration to 90 seconds. That is tremendous overkill. The Haste reduction is fine but they seriously need to rethink that.

[Demon6324236]

Actually... just keep the duration the same and they made the effects perfect. They wouldn't be overpowered, its just a glorified Haste II, perhaps nerf the Regen a bit too, the Refresh aspect is nice because it means its a good "super buff" for both mages & melees, though its still much more on the melee side than the mage side seeing as Fast Cast would be needed to really balance it for both. As for PD... Why do I see events becoming "500 Summoning Skill only" or some shit like that? -_-

Either way, the nerfs on content don't seem to be enough imo, NNI seems... decent... I expect few people to bother even trying for 100 after the nerf, in favor of attempting to do BRD Marchx2 SCH/RDM(Phalanx&Regen5) & 4DDs or something similar, really they should have increased the jump range to 2~12 or something similar as well seeing as Embrava sped up runs alot, and they seem to be ignoring that. Legion mobs seem to be stayin just as overpowered on damage, same with ADL, and everything else, they just die slightly faster.

[Sasaraixx]

Actually... just keep the duration the same


Which is why this proposed nerf is overkill. I think the Refresh effect is fairly useless and should be replaced with something else but the priority is fixing the duration.

I also think it's going to be harder to hit floor 80 w/o Embrava than it was to hit floor 100 with it. And now you have to do it 5 times! They need to increase the possible jump range and make the minimum jump 3. They should also remove order lamps from the possible objectives.

[Damane]

Looks like at least one of your wishes came true!
http://www.bluegartr.com/threads/112776-Dev-Tracker-Findings-Posts?p=5446814&viewfull=1#post5446814

the exchanges in Legion, nyzul isle and odin v2 do NOTHING for the loss of embrava and PD.
10% less HP on mobs doesnt change the fact that they can AoE you for 2k dmg... changes to those are fucking meaningless.

[Demon6324236]

Eh, like I said I'm ok with refresh because it actually buffs mages, not high on the priority list I know, but still helpful to some. Mages have lost their ability to really DD because of a few reasons, 1 of which being MP running out, the other being overall DPS, Embrava giving Refresh helps with 1 of these 2 things(MP isn't a problem in some events like Abyssea or VW, but then again BLMs are there to proc, not to DD) so I see it as ok. While admittedly it will be harder to make the climb, you also have to take into account that the harder mobs on those higher floors wont cause you problems now, the boss is a whole 20% earlier, and the boss is easier I would assume, meaning overall it might be easier. Its just a matter of groups having to experiment with it. The only thing is that really NNI seems to be ignored by the devs to an extent, they say they want it to take alot of luck & skill still... my question is, if it already took alot of luck & skill with Embrava, just what do they expect people to do to beat floor 100 without Embrava.

[saevel]

Well legion didn't get changed much, and ADL will be barely adjusted if your SMN's have decent skill. The real killer is NNI which just because nigh impossible to get to 100. Order lamps and no embrava most of the run, your taking a 99 Dura BRD and hoping for the best.

[Karbuncle]

I saw this coming. No matter who's in charge, They all seem equally incompitent when it comes to balancing a nerf.

Its always tremendous overkill. RDM Enmity Spells, RNG's in general... If its getting a nerf, its going to be nerfed into uselessness or near such. Perfect Defense will remain semi-useful if your Summoning Magic is capped with the right gear, But for the majority of LS Summoners out there, Your PD is now useless... Embrava is now meaningless. You'd honestly be better off replacing your SCH with a Emp BRD for NNI now, Maybe keep one around for Regen.

I mean, 90 Second duration? Nerfing the Haste and Regain would have sufficed, But destroying the Duration simply renders the entire ability rather meaningless for the events it was used in.

On the bright side, BRD and/or COR will probably be more welcome in NNI Groups, But on the Down side, Floor 100 will be a pipe dream.

[MarkovChain]

The new PD duration makes it impossible to kill 2 clones or more even with an ally unless you spend part of the fight stunning it (like the first part). In reality there is decent chance that it won't do breakga at start so you can pop it a bit later, however the split animation plus the rengage time is easy 15 seconds wasted, party or ally, so I think you see twice less marrows in bazars than what you have now, mostly because noone can afford a 18 man kill. Personally, I will just use the same setup with a few +skill farming, and our winrate will be 50% instead of 87%, no big deal since the price will also double.


The new optimal setup for nyzul is likely

DDx4
SMN for 5 minutes haste ga & movement speed
DDB99 BRD singing march march paeon paeon

[revear]

I doubt the price will double more people will prob join a ls for ADL because with burning nerfed people will be looking for a new ls to get them. but marrows its tough to determine a price for them right now give it a month after the update to level out we shall see,

[Fupafighter]

Well legion didn't get changed much, and ADL will be barely adjusted if your SMN's have decent skill. The real killer is NNI which just because nigh impossible to get to 100. Order lamps and no embrava most of the run, your taking a 99 Dura BRD and hoping for the best.

Honestly since they're changing it from regain to refresh, could see blu taking over nyzle lol. 4 Blu, 1 sch, 1 brd or something.

[Demon6324236]

I only think BRD+SCH+DDx4 will be how NNI is done now because BRDs can give out Double Marches & then camp the lamp while the SCH slowly dishes out 6Min duration Hastes along with the initial Phalanx+Regen which so long as your DDs have PDT sets, should last them quite some time, then redo songs every 2~3 floors, and repeat till you hit 80 & kill the boss as usual.

[Fupafighter]

The new PD duration makes it impossible to kill 2 clones or more even with an ally unless you spend part of the fight stunning it (like the first part). In reality there is decent chance that it won't do breakga at start so you can pop it a bit later, however the split animation plus the rengage time is easy 15 seconds wasted, party or ally, so I think you see twice less marrows in bazars than what you have now, mostly because noone can afford a 18 man kill. Personally, I will just use the same setup with a few +skill farming, and our winrate will be 50% instead of 87%, no big deal since the price will also double.


The new optimal setup for nyzul is likely

DDx4
SMN for 5 minutes haste ga & movement speed
DDB99 BRD singing march march paeon paeon
The best strat I see working now would be 1 heavy DD, 3 blu and 2 sch still. Shooting for 80 is main objective once cap hits haha.

[Mittenz]

lol well that ends my adventures in end game. was just told to level a new job if I want to go to events by my LS because sch will no longer be used which I have no inclination on doing. Thanks SE~

[Fupafighter]

I only think BRD+SCH+DDx4 will be how NNI is done now because BRDs can give out Double Marches & then camp the lamp while the SCH slowly dishes out 6Min duration Hastes along with the initial Phalanx+Regen which so long as your DDs have PDT sets, should last them quite some time, then redo songs every 2~3 floors, and repeat till you hit 80 & kill the boss as usual.
I honestly can see the strat being 4 BLU 2 sch lol..... Sorry ya hate blu so much.

[Sasaraixx]

Eh, like I said I'm ok with refresh because it actually buffs mages, not high on the priority list I know, but still helpful to some. Mages have lost their ability to really DD because of a few reasons, 1 of which being MP running out, the other being overall DPS, Embrava giving Refresh helps with 1 of these 2 things(MP isn't a problem in some events like Abyssea or VW, but then again BLMs are there to proc, not to DD) so I see it as ok. While admittedly it will be harder to make the climb, you also have to take into account that the harder mobs on those higher floors wont cause you problems now, the boss is a whole 20% earlier, and the boss is easier I would assume, meaning overall it might be easier. Its just a matter of groups having to experiment with it. The only thing is that really NNI seems to be ignored by the devs to an extent, they say they want it to take alot of luck & skill still... my question is, if it already took alot of luck & skill with Embrava, just what do they expect people to do to beat floor 100 without Embrava.

It's not really much of a buff for mages. Not having enough MP is not why mages aren't acceptable DD's for a lot of events. And even if that were the case, having an extra 7tick refresh for less than 3 minutes wouldn't change that one bit. The spell is pretty much useless now.

NNI will be harder now. The boss on floor 80 being easier than 100 makes absolutely not difference when you're going to be lucky to make it to 80 at all.

SCH usefulness in some endgame events just took a nose dive. As painful as NNI is going to be, I think you might still take one SCH for Regen V, Phalanx and Embrava for those last few floors. You'll definitely be bringing a Dura BRD now though.

[saevel]

I honestly can see the strat being 4 BLU 2 sch lol..... Sorry ya hate blu so much.

Won't be best. BLU's biggest / only weakness is vs big boss's which is where the WAR's and SAM's tend to come in. Your setup will just swap one SCH out for a BRD, preferably a Empy BRD. The 2nd one will have to be a SCH, a SMN simply can't heal enough for the upper floors stupidity. SCH can do 7:30 hastes to go with the BRD's extended double march's. The only thing that hurts from the loss of Embrava is the sheer amount of HP it healed over time. Regen V is only 60s duration, so with gloves we're talking a 2.5min effect. Coordinating buffs and the SCH precharging their abilities will be essential for any chance at a win. At least floor 80 x 5 is reasonably achievable.

The typical setup I've used to great effect is

DDx3
BLUx1
SCH
SCH BRD

I've also successfully swapped one of the DD's with a 99 Mandau THF/WAR, though this was an incredibly well geared and skilled THF. Me (BLU) and him would run off and start doing stuff on our own, THF's natural evasion is so high that most mobs can't hit them for sh!t and the BLU can heal enough to keep the SCH focused on the two WAR's.

[MarkovChain]

I honestly can see the strat being 4 BLU 2 sch lol..... Sorry ya hate blu so much.

BLU is *not* a DD, it's gimp.

[Demon6324236]

I honestly can see the strat being 4 BLU 2 sch lol..... Sorry ya hate blu so much.Eh, 2SCH would be fairly pointless unless the duration changes, same with 4BLU if the main reliance is on MP, that is unless they change the duration back up to 5Min. At 3Min it will be so where you still want the SCH for Regen & Phalanx to cut down on damage & time wasted on shit mobs while you want a BRD for the DD buffs, and rather than asking about Enhancing Magic skill it will be more about the BRD having a Emp harp, and duration+ gear for songs. Or at least thats how I see it going.
It's not really much of a buff for mages. Not having enough MP is not why mages aren't acceptable DD's for a lot of events. And even if that were the case, having an extra 7tick refresh for less than 3 minutes wouldn't change that one bit. The spell is pretty much useless now.Oh the duration is shit, no matter what else they do that has to change I agree, but I was just sayin I can see Refresh working somewhat.

[Karbuncle]

I think if the Duration would have stayed the Same, the Strategy would have changed quite little, but as it stands now, thats going to be the most devastating hit to it. BRD is definitely going to find a spot in the party.

[Fupafighter]

I can see bard. But I still can't see having 3+ heavy DD in the party. They just simply take too much damage. Blu can atleast cure themselves and stun spam the monsters. And on fodder mobs, blu destroys them. Heavy DD are losing their regain. That's huge. I would say most likely then 3 blu, 2 heavy DD, and 1 bard. Sound reasonable lol? Or maybe even have a good corsair go along that can contribute good damage, and possibly give out 4 regain on a 5 on floor ups. So maybe 3 blu 2 heavy DD and a brd, or 3 blu, 1 heavy DD, cor, and brd. Plus don't forget this event involves running more than anything, so brd using a song for movement speed is prolly a good idea.

[HimuraKenshyn]

Not very happy at the moment its basically now content only for the geared out the ass folks and the common man will suck it. Well its the lazy common man that pays the bills and SE may feel that after these changes in the wallet soon a few have already quit after blinker gate I wonder how many more will. It's not like back in the day we didn't have many options today we have way to many.....

I think my LS now consist of more account mules than real players.....

[newmonkey]

Not very happy at the moment its basically now content only for the geared out the ass folks and the common man will suck it. Well its the lazy common man that pays the bills and SE may feel that after these changes in the wallet soon a few have already quit after blinker gate I wonder how many more will. It's not like back in the day we didn't have many options today we have way to many.....

I think my LS now consist of more account mules than real players.....

The common man shall indeed suck it.

[saevel]

COR buffs take too long to put up, NNI is about being stupidly fast and time efficient. BRD's have Nightingale and Troubadour so they can pound out 2~4 sounds at lighting speed. Their still stuck with having to sing one set of march's in between JA timers, but that can be mitigated if they time it with the SCH's buff spells and a really good FC/-cast time set.

[Demon6324236]

They just simply take too much damage.This is why Regen+Phalanx+PDT Gear sets=win. If you leave out the SCH you lose the mass Regen & devoted heals to the Heavy DDs, on top of that you lose the long lasting Haste from the SCHs, and even the last minute zergbrava for the boss. BRD will no doubt be in the setup, most likely with Marchx2, possibly Marchx2 & Move Speed with Emp, but losing SCH hurts HP recovery to much, while BRD will be the only way to pick up kill speed really.

[Mefuki]

Not very happy at the moment its basically now content only for the geared out the ass folks and the common man will suck it. Well its the lazy common man that pays the bills and SE may feel that after these changes in the wallet soon a few have already quit after blinker gate I wonder how many more will. It's not like back in the day we didn't have many options today we have way to many.....

I think my LS now consist of more account mules than real players.....

Indeed, a sort of "rich get richer" scenario is a concern.

On a separate note, I really don't understand SE mentality to the adjustments to the events. Nyzul is going to be harder and take longer to finish which basically ignores the feedback they received from us and actually does the opposite. As for Legion and Odin: a monsters max HP has nothing to do with them throwing out 2K TP moves on a whim. Do they not understand why people use PD? Sure, we can now kill them a little faster...provided people are alive to do it.

[Karbuncle]

COR buffs take too long to put up, NNI is about being stupidly fast and time efficient. BRD's have Nightingale and Troubadour so they can pound out 2~4 sounds at lighting speed. Their still stuck with having to sing one set of march's in between JA timers, but that can be mitigated if they time it with the SCH's buff spells and a really good FC/-cast time set.

CORs can also help DD. I mean, Its definitely going to be BRD > COR in Nyzul Isle, But COR would only be a slightly less awful Second place if they were any good.

[Luvbunny]

Not very happy at the moment its basically now content only for the geared out the ass folks and the common man will suck it. Well its the lazy common man that pays the bills and SE may feel that after these changes in the wallet soon a few have already quit after blinker gate I wonder how many more will. It's not like back in the day we didn't have many options today we have way to many.....

I think my LS now consist of more account mules than real players.....

It's pretty much this. The good thing is they have been extremely lazy when it comes to adjusting older contents so that the accessibility of abyssea, dynamis, and pre 99 expansions are still there. The bad thing is that now RMT is going to swarm back those older areas and destroying people's enjoyment. Not to mention all new contents after abyssea are pretty much created to be non accessible, with random generated numbers guaranteed that you will wasted your time and effort with nothing much to shows other than logs and ores that sells for peanuts.

[Sakura317]

There is an official announcement about PD and Embrava.
I think it will translated from Japanese to English formally, but before this, I've translate the statement.

The original announcement is this.


こんにちは。

新SPアビリティ追加、および既存SPアビリティの再使用時間短縮に先駆けて、絶対防御と連環計の効果見直しを行うことを考えています。調整は今週のテストサーバーに導入を行う予定ですが、先行して変更内容をお伝えし、ご意見をいただきたいと思います。

(The rest is omitted)


Here is my translation.




About Job Ability adjustment: Perfect Defense/Tabula Rasa.

Hello, everyone!

Before adding new 2hr ability and shortening recast of existing 2hr ability, we are planning to change the result of both Perfect Defense and Tabula Rasa.
The adjustments will implement on the test server in this week, we'd like to take your feedbacks to introduce how the abilities will be changed.


About Perfect Defense
Duration: Shorten 90 seconds to 30 seconds + 1 sec/20 Summoning skill
When your SMN skill is 600, it will last 60 seconds at a maximum. (30 + 30 seconds).
Advantage: Same as previous.
About Tabula Rasa
Embrava, the white magic that can be used only within the duration of Tabula Rasa, will be changed as follows.
Duration: Shorten from 5 minutes to 90 seconds.
Haste effect: lowered from +1%/15 Enhancing Magic Skill to +1%/20 Enhancing Magic Skill.
When your Enhancing magic skill is 500, it will reach +25% at a maximum.
Regain effect: change to refresh. (The rate is same as previous.)

Along with the adjustment of these abilities, some battle contents that utilizing of the two abilities is the mainstream to win, will be adjusted to step down difficulty level.
About Nyzul Isle Uncharted Area Survey
The quantity of Astrarium to convert a gear will be reduced from 25 to 5.
* The Astrarium that you already have will be divided by 5. (Round off fractions).

The basic concept that [clearing 100th floor is difficult without luck] won't be changed.
Reduction of Astrarium's required quantity is to balance out, because we expect this content will be harder to reach higher along with Embrava's downgrade.
About Region
Monsters' HP will be cut by about 10%.
All monsters' HP will be reduced.
Along with frequently used buffering abilities will be downgraded, we will adjust this contents to accelerate turns, and users can defeat monsters as much as before this adjustment.
About Einherjar
The HP of Odin that is appeared in Odin's Chamber II will be cut by about 10 - 15%.
Unlike Region, this contents is fight for only one monster, we adjust HP reduction rate of Odin is more than that of monsters in Region.
Perfect Defense and Embrava are frequently used in the fight for Arch Dynamis Lord and Provenance Watcher, too, but it takes little time for fighting, so we keep a wait-and-see attitude toward these contents and don't adjust anything this time.

These contents will be harder because we adjust to inhibit the effect of too strong abilities; however, the general meaning of this adjustment is [to become a little hard, but not to be impossible].

This adjustment will be implemented on the test server in this week, but we will continue to check and adjust arbitrarily after this adjustment, so please feedback to us.



My english is not so good, but
Unlike Region, this contents is fight for only one monster, we adjust HP reduction rate of Odin is more than that of monsters in Region.
is NOT mistranslation.

Foolish.
Normal people think [fighting 3 of tough monstrs at the same time (region)] is harder than [one monster (Einherihar)], so 3 tough monsters have to be reduced their HP more than Odin...

and

Perfect Defense and Embrava are frequently used in the fight for Arch Dynamis Lord and Provenance Watcher, too, but it takes little time for fighting, so we keep a wait-and-see attitude toward these contents and don't adjust anything this time.
is also NOT my mistranslation

The developpers don't recognize why the fight for Arch Dynamis Lord and Provenance Wather takes so short time.
(Of course they are too strong to fight to take long time...)

[Siiri]

I like the nyzul changes. I think they will not hinder a good group, just win 5 80s instead of 1 100. It will be fun to have strategy and try different combinations. I been playing this game for 7 years and I thought embrava/PD strategies were kind of boring.

I think they missed the boat on the legion /ADL/PW stuff. Its the tp moves that are killer not the hp. That needs to be changed.

[Kriegsgott]

There is an official announcement about PD and Embrava.
I think it will translated from Japanese to English formally, but before this, I've translate the statement.

The original announcement is this.



Here is my translation.



My english is not so good, but
Unlike Region, this contents is fight for only one monster, we adjust HP reduction rate of Odin is more than that of monsters in Region.
is NOT mistranslation.

Foolish.
Normal people think [fighting 3 of tough monstrs at the same time (region)] is harder than [one monster (Einherihar)], so 3 tough monsters have to be reduced their HP more than Odin...

and

Perfect Defense and Embrava are frequently used in the fight for Arch Dynamis Lord and Provenance Watcher, too, but it takes little time for fighting, so we keep a wait-and-see attitude toward these contents and don't adjust anything this time.
is also NOT my mistranslation

The developpers don't recognize why the fight for Arch Dynamis Lord and Provenance Wather takes so short time.
(Of course they are too strong to fight to take long time...)

thank you for posting this!
(arigatou!)

[Taint2]

Here is an example of why embrava broke the game ; ADL is not killable without perfect defense, we have yet to see a reported kill, even with a complete alliance of 18.


Please stop spreading this bad info.

My LS has killed ADL without PD (12 total including mules) and you were well aware of that before making this post.

[Taint2]

Taint reporting in the BLuegartr Dynamis thread that they have killed ADL without PD, but it involved alliance and partial zombiying.



Just wanted to clear this up. We killed without PD with 12 players, including atleast 3 mules. Our LS isn't even big enough to make an alliance. We tried it for fun at the end of a run and won. We kept him squall locked almost the entire time post split.

The Zombieing was a different kill altogether. We used PD that fight and got unlucky.

[Siiri]

Please stop spreading this bad info.

My LS has killed ADL without PD (12 total including mules) and you were well aware of that before making this post.

Hi Taint,'
if you don't mind can you elaborate on what would be needed to clear ADL without pd? My static has 10 people and we just started, were 1/2 last run but that was mostly just getting our feet wet. Didn't find it particularly hard with PD and embrava. Do we need more than 10 after this adjustment? Did you have 2 smns shock squalling? Any other general guidance? thanks

Edit: I guess you answered this mostly while I was posting. Thanks for info. We the same, don't' really want a full alliance, 10-12 most we want a run.

[MarkovChain]

Please stop spreading this bad info.

My LS has killed ADL without PD (12 total including mules) and you were well aware of that before making this post.

No you didn't, it's in your dreams.

[Fupafighter]

I just feel throwing in a cor over a brd that will basically just stand there seems better. Cor can do pretty well on fodder mobs. And wildfire seems nice for flans and such. And cor takes long to buff, IF you go for an 11. Lucky rolls are still beneficial by alot. Last stand/wildfire cor with a good tp/ws setup is good. And cor also gets exent. Brd can barely DD lol. I would rather have another potential DD spreading out giving decent buffs opposed to a brd giving better buffs standing there.

[Taint2]

No you didn't, it's in your dreams.



lol...hater

[Plasticleg]

lol...hater

qq only mnks can do adl qq

[Zagen]

I just feel throwing in a cor over a brd that will basically just stand there seems better. Cor can do pretty well on fodder mobs. And wildfire seems nice for flans and such. And cor takes long to buff, IF you go for an 11. Lucky rolls are still beneficial by alot. Last stand/wildfire cor with a good tp/ws setup is good. And cor also gets exent. Brd can barely DD lol. I would rather have another potential DD spreading out giving decent buffs opposed to a brd giving better buffs standing there.
COR can do 1 roll in the time a BRD would do 2x March. On top of that if you shift the BRD to be the lamp "operator" they can do 5+min Marches the whole run. That's 22% Haste on each DD that melees, dunno about your but I wouldn't bank on a COR being able to make up that damage even when factoring in rolls.

Edit: If lamp floors or floors where mobs are spread out I could see COR winning due to regain roll still doing something where as marches wouldn't be doing anything.

[Fupafighter]

COR can do 1 roll in the time a BRD would do 2x March. On top of that if you shift the BRD to be the lamp "operator" they can do 5+min Marches the whole run. That's 22% Haste on each DD that melees, dunno about your but I wouldn't bank on a COR being able to make up that damage even when factoring in rolls.

Edit: If lamp floors or floors where mobs are spread out I could see COR winning due to regain roll still doing something where as marches wouldn't be doing anything.
Exactly my point. You're always moving in nyzle. The event is 50% run, 50% kill. And for the most part, you don't need that much damage, you need more people to spread out and do the objective.

[DrForester]

Can't wait to see tomorrows reveal on the Sqaure Enix "Screw You Players" week.

[Zagen]

Exactly my point. You're always moving in nyzle. The event is 50% run, 50% kill. And for the most part, you don't need that much damage, you need more people to spread out and do the objective.
You're stating that as if it was fact. There are times when a COR comes in handy compared to a BRD, there are times they don't.

All the nerfs (granted PD wasn't used in NNI) and lack of change to floor 100 really says is either:
- SE doesn't have a clue how to properly balance an event so that it's more skill than luck
or
- SE never expected us to ever get 50%+ win rates on floor 100 runs.

Can't say I'm too surprised it's hard to crank out new content with a skeleton crew.

[Fupafighter]

You're stating that as if it was fact. There are times when a COR comes in handy compared to a BRD, there are times they don't.

All the nerfs (granted PD wasn't used in NNI) and lack of change to floor 100 really says is either:
- SE doesn't have a clue how to properly balance an event so that it's more skill than luck
or
- SE never expected us to ever get 50%+ win rates on floor 100 runs.

Can't say I'm too surprised it's hard to crank out new content with a skeleton crew.
Just saying.... tacts roll to a 5 is not hard, less yet 11 with the new snake eye rule. It takes maybe 6 seconds to get a 5 most times if you're lucky(haha getting luckier in a luck based event". The thing is that I feel cor would actually offer damage...and could spread out and do an objective. Opposed to a brd, that stands at the lamp everytime and casts a buff when ya zone up haha. I mean I guess it comes down to the cor or brd really. I personally would take a cor with 90+ arma and good gear sets.

[DrForester]

Worst part about PD is it's screwing people with max SMN skill. If they want to tie it into skill fine, but SMN's should not have to track down every piece of gear. No other jobs requires the absolute max to get hte max potential out of their abilities, most jobs would get worse effects by doing so.

A melee can't max their damage from increasing their weapon skill to max. Increases in other stats produce more of a benefit. Same with Mage jobs. Capping the base skill is important, but you're not going to equip every possible piece of +elemental magic skill gear to get the max effect.

SE is requiring SMN's to track down every single piece of gear to get the max effect of their 2 hour. That's an imbalance. Especially since the max is well over 50 points from the maximum possible skill level now (meaning all the gear we've worked so hard to get is about to become obsolete). The 30+30 thing should cap at 500 skill. Enough to require effort, but not requiring a hunt for every single piece of gear.

[Llana_Virren]

SE is requiring SMN's to track down every single piece of gear to get the max effect of their 2 hour. That's an imbalance. Especially since the max is well over 50 points from the maximum possible skill level now (meaning all the gear we've worked so hard to get is about to become obsolete). The 30+30 thing should cap at 500 skill. Enough to require effort, but not requiring a hunt for every single piece of gear.

A SCH worth his salt relied exclusively on gear to get anywhere close to 500 enhancing magic, so that wasn't a SMN-only issue.

Comparing apples to oranges, SE decided not to fix content, but rather to fix the "loophole" that was allowing players to beat content that wasn't designed to be winnable.

[MarkovChain]

Worst part about PD is it's screwing people with max SMN skill. If they want to tie it into skill fine, but SMN's should not have to track down every piece of gear. No other jobs requires the absolute max to get hte max potential out of their abilities, most jobs would get worse effects by doing so.

Ill stop you there. basic 450 skill (basic gear and capped skill/merit) is is something like 52 seconds, good gear at 500 ish is around 54 sec. Past that it's unrealistic. As you see, even gearing for smn skill is useless (yeah for +2 sec woot). The update doesn't eve, advantage well geared SMN, it should be 0 seconds base and 60 sec with 500 skill. Actually if they want to emphasize quality of SMN gear, it should be 30s for 400 skill and 60 sec for 500 skill.

[Fupafighter]

BLU is *not* a DD, it's gimp.

Also forgot, GIMPchan is talking lol?

[Luvbunny]

Comparing apples to oranges, SE decided not to fix content, but rather to fix the "loophole" that was allowing players to beat content that wasn't designed to be winnable.

Indeed, the last few updates have been nothing but disappointment, one after another. I was looking forward for Meeble Burrows but seems like another content designed to string you along for no end in sights. It's all good though, it's been a good 10 years run, time to call it a day, close shop and take a long break till they grow a few INTs points and bring back Abyssea 2.0.

[Arcon]

Indeed, the last few updates have been nothing but disappointment, one after another. I was looking forward for Meeble Burrows but seems like another content designed to string you along for no end in sights. It's all good though, it's been a good 10 years run, time to call it a day, close shop and take a long break till they grow a few INTs points and bring back Abyssea 2.0.

Yes, please quit already. Start with the forums.

[Caketime]

Come on Arc, being bitter isn't going to get us anywhere.

[Luvbunny]

Yes, please quit already. Start with the forums.

Yes thanks for the idiotic comment, you mad bro?

[Luvbunny]

Come on Arc, being bitter isn't going to get us anywhere.

He is indeed one bitter old fart :)

[Iakothm]

So I was thinking the OP says that the boss was killed by 2 monks and a summoner... maybe its not PD That is over powered but maybe its the monks abilities + their weapons that are over powered instead QUICK NERF MONKS NAO!!!


trolling is so much fun isn't it?:rolleyes:

[Luvbunny]

So I was thinking the OP says that the boss was killed by 2 monks and a summoner... maybe its not PD That is over powered but maybe its the monks abilities + their weapons that are over powered instead QUICK NERF MONKS NAO!!! trolling is so much fun isn't it?:rolleyes:

LMAO, monks and warriors already got their nerfed awhile ago. I think the job that is due for massive adjustment is Samurai to be honest. But honestly I rather they leave these amazing jobs as it is instead of nerfing them to oblivion. What they should do instead is buffing other jobs that are not up to snuff, making thief, paladin, dark, summoner, bard, red mage, dancer, and beastmaster more attractive. They decided to go the easy way route, and did the absolute minimum when it comes adjusting Neo Nyzul and Legion.

[MarkovChain]

That's why I made the thread, they had to pick they easy way.

[Arcon]

Come on Arc, being bitter isn't going to get us anywhere.

I'm always bitter.


Yes thanks for the idiotic comment, you mad bro?

I'm not the one with foam at my mouth, screaming and crying in every thread over and over again about how mean the producer and the development team is and threatening to quit the game about it.

[Luvbunny]

Not threatening to quit, just did. Another fine break from the game. This year has been quite lackluster compared to last year when it comes to content and updates. Mind you there are literally gazilion things to do in the game still and most of them not even affected by the recent updates at all. But as you know, action speaks louder than words, taking a break till the game actually worth paying again is not a bad thing to do. I suggest you develop a good reading comprehension.

[Iakothm]

than why stay around and talk on the forums if you are gonna quit don't sit there and stalk the forums.

[Luvbunny]

Wasn't gonna take a break, but these recent bad news after another is the straws that break the camel back. Plus, if you read the response on the forum thread, I am not the only person here who are dissatisfied with the proposed updates. Gonna bust embrava right and left and enjoy it while it last :) The adjustment to blinkers fiasco is annoying but does not quite affect me since I did not even bother to do that in the first place. But the embrava + PD nerf really hits home hard since those are 2 of my favorite jobs in the game. Was hoping they just reduce the potency of embrava slightly, still good enough to be potent but not too awesome like the way it is now. Coupled with reduction in PD duration which is rather short to begin with, you start to wonder what kind of logic and reasons the developers have in mind.

[Demon6324236]

Quit = leave & never come back.
Take a break = Leave & plan to come back at a later time.

If one is quiting, they need not do anything on these forums, why attempt to influence the course of the game if one has no plans of returning to it. However, if one plans to return later, they have every reason to post on these forums, they wish to guide the game still, even if they are not playing it, or not planing to play it much longer, because when they do return they will be effected by those changes all the same.

In otherwords, were I taking a break from the game starting tomorrow I would still pop in here & give the devs a piece of my mind, so when I come back later the game is better than when I left. At the same time, if I were quitting the game tomorrow with no intent to return, I would leave the forums alone, why bother attempting to change a games fate which I no longer have interest in? If I'm unsure if Ill return, I could do either one, threads that say they are quiting & here why, are threads I think of as people who are unsure about the game, they do not wish to quit, but they don't find the game enjoyable anymore, so they give a final note to the devs to explain what went wrong & why they are leaving, so that if things change, they may come back & enjoy the game again.



To sum it up, if your quitting, yeah, go away, if you might, or intend to come back, feel free to stick around & help guide the game in which direction you wish to see it go, after all you may be coming back, and if/when you do, you will want it to be good.

[Chuckytaru]

In otherwords, were I taking a break from the game starting tomorrow I would still pop in here & give the devs a piece of my mind, so when I come back later the game is better than when I left. At the same time, if I were quitting the game tomorrow with no intent to return, I would leave the forums alone, why bother attempting to change a games fate which I no longer have interest in? If I'm unsure if Ill return, I could do either one, threads that say they are quiting & here why, are threads I think of as people who are unsure about the game, they do not wish to quit, but they don't find the game enjoyable anymore, so they give a final note to the devs to explain what went wrong & why they are leaving, so that if things change, they may come back & enjoy the game again.


but you have to pay for the game or you cant post here thats exactly what 2 people of my ls did and the arnt allowed to post here anymore one of them dosn come back til anything happend in Campaign the other one dont feel like playing for now...

[Sarick]

That's why I made the thread, they had to pick they easy way.

And the result was..

A massive witch hunt NERF on the part of SE to PD and Embrava. Good job. An easy solution we needed was make it so they didn't stack. The time limit based on skill should've been capped at 500 for 60 seconds. That would set the bar lower too so it would cap out at 90ish.

[Taint2]

SE said they were nerfing PD and Embrava months ago. It had nothing to do with this thread.

[Demon6324236]

but you have to pay for the game or you cant post here thats exactly what 2 people of my ls did and the arnt allowed to post here anymore one of them dosn come back til anything happend in Campaign the other one dont feel like playing for now...

Well in that case all the more reason to get the bitching out of your system before your current month ends wouldn't you agree? I mean if you are trying to make the game worth coming back to & you cant post if your not paying then you are running on what little time you have, might as well say your problems now & hope they get addressed when you can no speak up about them.

[Fupafighter]

LMAO, monks and warriors already got their nerfed awhile ago. I think the job that is due for massive adjustment is Samurai to be honest. But honestly I rather they leave these amazing jobs as it is instead of nerfing them to oblivion. What they should do instead is buffing other jobs that are not up to snuff, making thief, paladin, dark, summoner, bard, red mage, dancer, and beastmaster more attractive. They decided to go the easy way route, and did the absolute minimum when it comes adjusting Neo Nyzul and Legion.
Explain how samurai is overpowered. Mnk War DRk all shit on it. Why the F would they nerf sam? Because they have a weaponskill that does 2/3 the damage of ukko's, smite, and resolution on average? Hell no.

[Luvbunny]

Explain how samurai is overpowered. Mnk War DRk all shit on it. Why the F would they nerf sam? Because they have a weaponskill that does 2/3 the damage of ukko's, smite, and resolution on average? Hell no.

Let's stop talking about awesome jobs, just say all jobs are underpowered and need positive adjustments. I don't think we want more negative job adjustments. In the last few years, only few jobs got massive overhaul: WHM, SCH, BST, DRG, and PUP. Then they start messing around with all the good things and decided to nerf some of these jobs, giving us empty promises (no TH gears for beast), and come up with ridiculous idiotic of new 2 hours (worse than the old one, totally useless for some jobs). Whenever a job is shining and working as intended in the eyes of players, SE come back with unneeded adjustment and for some, render the job completely unfavorable for big events. They still refuse to acknowledge the elephants in the room which is bad game design.

[JohnGotti]

As others have asked why are you crying Pchan when it was you calling for the nerf ? Whats wrong you and Mdk can't kil adl anymore sucks for you.

[MarkovChain]

I can't kill ADL anymore lol ? Didn't know that. At worst I can only get 45 M every two days instead of 90M. Not a problem really. Realistically though the marrow price will double haha.

[Llana_Virren]

I can't kill ADL anymore lol ? Didn't know that. At worst I can only get 45 M every two days instead of 90M. Not a problem really. Realistically though the marrow price will double haha.

Your emotional flip-flopping on this whole topic is almost as entertaining as the Presidential debates have been. Ironically both seem equally pointless.

[Iakothm]

Your emotional flip-flopping on this whole topic is almost as entertaining as the Presidential debates have been. Ironically both seem equally pointless.

again this thread has nothing to do with the actual topic it's just a way for the idiot pimpchan to post his sig over and over again to boost his ego.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

Wooo pointless sig pushing!


Realy though, they both needed to be nerfed.

[Vitus]

but you have to pay for the game or you cant post here

In fact, you DO NOT have to pay for the game to post here, period.

[Arcon]

In fact, you DO NOT have to pay for the game to post here, period.

When I didn't pay because of some issues when changing credit card details, I couldn't post on here anymore. It said I needed an active Content ID.

[Iakothm]

In fact, you DO NOT have to pay for the game to post here, period.

You do too have to pay for the game to post here. You also have to actually be actively playing your character to post too.

[Vitus]

I've been off from the game for a while, i'm still here posting.

[Iakothm]

I've been off from the game for a while, i'm still here posting.

and how long is "awhile"

[MarkovChain]

again this thread has nothing to do with the actual topic it's just a way for the idiot pimpchan to post his sig over and over again to boost his ego.

of course it has to do with it, don't be jealous already. This thread feels like BG.

[Vitus]

and how long is "awhile"

A pretty long while

[Iakothm]

A pretty long while

as in you canceled your account a week ago or as in you canceled your account a couple months ago?

[Iakothm]

of course it has to do with it, don't be jealous already. This thread feels like BG.

lol I am not jealous I could care less who has what gear I am slowly making my way up in gear and I will have myself a Mythic polearm sooner or later. But that is besides the point you have conveyed both sides of the arguement in this thread proving that you are doing nothing but showing off your sig.

[Demon6324236]

Nothing to do with people being jealous either. The simple fact you contradicted the subject of the thread shows it was mostly pointless, and likely an attempt at gloating about something I am 99.9% sure no one cares about.

[Ezikiel]

*Tabula Rasa
The effects of the white magic "Embrava" will be adjusted as follows:
**Duration: Reduced from 5 minutes to 90 seconds.
**Haste Effect: Reduced to 15% + 1% for each 20 enhancing skill. Maximum of +25% at 500 enhancing skill.
**Regain Effect: Changed to Refresh effect (the #/tick is the same as before, based on skill).

worst part of it

[Demon6324236]

Yes, the fact we don't get a few extra TP every few seconds is terrible compared to the fact the ability lost nearly 3/4ths of its duration and the ability to function in any event as more than a midfight zerg buff.

[Ezikiel]

mages potentially get more mp from empyrean WS's with regain than they would with refresh which only benfits mages. with regain melee and mages benefit

[Demon6324236]

And thus, this is a nerf. The duration of the effect is much more devastating than the loss of a few bits of TP when you take into account in most cases your using Embrava the Regain was not all to important anyways, admittedly it may have made the difference between say, a 5 hit build or a 6 hit build, but at the same time, the Haste & Regain being toned down is understandable, those are its effects & hurt it enough, removing a ton of its duration just makes it worthless because its either a somewhat short zerg, or its worthless to use.

[Mirage]

You do too have to pay for the game to post here. You also have to actually be actively playing your character to post too.
Last time I cancelled my content ID was in february. The forums let me keep posting until august, when some billing change suddenly made the forums realize that I shouldn't be having access anymore.


and how long is "awhile"
Roughly six months, it seems.

[Ezikiel]

And thus, this is a nerf. The duration of the effect is much more devastating than the loss of a few bits of TP when you take into account in most cases your using Embrava the Regain was not all to important anyways, admittedly it may have made the difference between say, a 5 hit build or a 6 hit build, but at the same time, the Haste & Regain being toned down is understandable, those are its effects & hurt it enough, removing a ton of its duration just makes it worthless because its either a somewhat short zerg, or its worthless to use.

regaian was the best part of this ability like i said regain benefits both mages and melee, melee get to spam Ws and mages if MP is needed can get them back from various WS without having to be in range

[Arcon]

regaian was the best part of this ability like i said regain benefits both mages and melee, melee get to spam Ws and mages if MP is needed can get them back from various WS without having to be in range

Haste was the best part, Regain helped. But the nerf that killed it was the one to duration, not the one to potency. If it had the same duration without Regain, it would still be awesome, because it would free up two bard songs, and would only need to be applied twice to fulltime for 30 minutes (which is the duration of most relevant events).

[Raksha]

I think as long as you don't lose your login cookie you can continue posting here even after your account has been shut off.

[MarkovChain]

Nothing to do with people being jealous either. The simple fact you contradicted the subject of the thread shows it was mostly pointless, and likely an attempt at gloating about something I am 99.9% sure no one cares about.

People care about embra and PD nerf yes. Hence the thread. The whole point was to warn SE that nerfing PD means the event is no longer doable, and not surprisingly, ADL/legion are no longer doable or at least not with the same winrate. Inbefore QQ IcankillegionwithoutPD and IcallkillADLwithoutPD. I mean at least they did nerf legion mobs's HP right ?

Also, people care because 8500 views

[Iakothm]

People care about embra and PD nerf yes. Hence the thread. The whole point was to warn SE that nerfing PD means the event is no longer doable, and not surprisingly, ADL/legion are no longer doable or at least not with the same winrate. Inbefore QQ IcankillegionwithoutPD and IcallkillADLwithoutPD. I mean at least they did nerf legion mobs's HP right ?

Also, people care because 8500 views

lol... what?
Here is an example of why embrava broke the game ; ADL is not killable without perfect defense, we have yet to see a reported kill, even with a complete alliance of 18.


Here is a video showing why perfect defense is so unbalanced, as a mob that can't be killed with 18 suddenly becomes a joke with 3.

Also am i the only one who finds it funny that Pimpchans says "here is why embrava is broken" and than goes on to talk about perfect defense?

Edit: the 8000+ views are because they care about PD and Embrava not because they give 1 flying **** about your stupid sig.

[Demon6324236]

People care about embra and PD nerf yes. Hence the thread. The whole point was to warn SE that nerfing PD means the event is no longer doable, and not surprisingly, ADL/legion are no longer doable or at least not with the same winrate. Inbefore QQ IcankillegionwithoutPD and IcallkillADLwithoutPD. I mean at least they did nerf legion mobs's HP right ?

Also, people care because 8500 views
Nothing to do with people being jealous either. The simple fact you contradicted the subject of the thread shows it was mostly pointless, and likely an attempt at gloating about something I am 99.9% sure no one cares about.You contradict yourself yet again too... earlier you said its impossible to kill ADL without PD.
They didn't do it or you would have seen it done in a video, it's just braging on video games forums.
You have killed it in your dreams.
I can't kill ADL anymore lol ? Didn't know that. At worst I can only get 45 M every two days instead of 90M. Not a problem really. Realistically though the marrow price will double haha.This means either your so selfcentered you believe only you are capable of killing ADL without PD, or you contradicted what you said earlier because before, ADL without PD was impossible, and now ADL is possible without ADL, you just make less.

You made a thread on a relevant subject which people care about, which is a good reason to make one. At the same time, you address people with the same stupid "what you say is impossible because I cant see you do it" attitude, and contradicted yourself on that later by saying you apparently can do it, you will just make less money, and now are back to the "its going to be unkillable" side.

Its funny you try to say people are jealous when they have a valid point that it does in a way look like all your doing is trying to show off a sig no one cares about.

[MarkovChain]

You contradict yourself yet again too... earlier you said its impossible to kill ADL without PD.This means either your so selfcentered you believe only you are capable of killing ADL without PD, or you contradicted what you said earlier because before, ADL without PD was impossible, and now ADL is possible without ADL, you just make less.

I know you are a bad troll and all you is post count +1, until the other part stops responding, but really, I don't contradict my self anywhere. ADL is not winnable without PD, and ADL is no longer winable at the same rate is what I said.

[Taint2]

I know you are a bad troll and all you is post count +1, until the other part stops responding, but really, I don't contradict my self anywhere. ADL is not winnable without PD, and ADL is no longer winable at the same rate is what I said.



LOL please stop trolling your own thread.

He is killable without PD, you just are too scared to try. If 12 people can do it, I'm sure the 18 man ADL groups will have zero trouble getting a decent win rate without PD.

[Karbuncle]

LOL please stop trolling your own thread.

He is killable without PD, you just are too scared to try. If 12 people can do it, I'm sure the 18 man ADL groups will have zero trouble getting a decent win rate without PD.

I'm going to actually side a little with Pchan here... Unless you can provide me with some evidence of a Successful non-PD ADL Kill that didn't end with 90% of the alliance dead and everyone screaming like they just killed AV in 2007, I'm going to contend that ADL is going to be next to/almost impossible without PD.

I mean sure, You could get really lucky and win every so often, But without PD, It'd be so luck based that You'd have a better chance of reaching floor 100 in NNI with PUP, BLM, RNG than killing it with any respectable Win %.

As it stands, With our group, 1 Party (The best) Get PD, and we have a leftover that doesn't. By the first split, everyone in the secondary party is usually dead except maybe a THF who happened to Evade one of the TP moves. So while we're not completely losing PD, The idea that the event is all right without it is insane.

So to wrap up this.

Is ADL Doable without PD? Yes, It'd be significantly luck based and so unreliable that if it was the only method, Marrows would likely drop off the face of the earth.

Is ADL Still going to be PD Zerged? Yes.

There really is no way around it, ADL is a luck based content that was stupid to begin with and had terrible implementation and design, PD Just helped groups find a way around the idiocy of the Dumb luck system and Game-Over TP moves long enough to manage a kill now and again.

While on the subject, SagaSinger's drop rate is unreasonably low, I've probably farmed 50+ Marrows with my LS and never seen one, In all of their time doing it (before I joined), Only 1 has dropped, and thats with about 15 Completed 99 Relics or more...

[saevel]

LOL please stop trolling your own thread.

He is killable without PD, you just are too scared to try. If 12 people can do it, I'm sure the 18 man ADL groups will have zero trouble getting a decent win rate without PD.

Come on Taint you know this isn't true. ADL isn't particularly hard but he does have stupid powerful moves that him and his clones do at the same time. Those moves have 30~40 foot ranges and will hit everyone in the engagement area. And while dynamis assault is a joke, Implosion, Tera Slash and Oblivion Smash are all wipes. There isn't just one moving going off, he will always split into two at a minimum (three if you brought him under 40%). The very first thing they do is a synch'd TP move, double Oblivion Smash's, double Tera Slash's / ect. Assuming your survive the first one, a few seconds later when your melee's give him TP he'll do another set of double TP moves, you won't be surviving those without PD.

His HP isn't even that high, three really powerful DD's can burn him down, if they can live long enough to do so.

[Iakothm]

I know you are a bad troll and all you is post count +1, until the other part stops responding, but really, I don't contradict my self anywhere. ADL is not winnable without PD, and ADL is no longer winable at the same rate is what I said.

you contradict yourself in this post alone lol...

[Plasticleg]

Also, people care because 8500 views

No one cares, you're a punchline.

[hiko]

the nerf will come with shorter recast and the new 2H, all you'll need is time your astral conduit shock squall right before PD off

[Monchat]

stuff

Taint is trying too hard, just because pchan posts something he must prove it wrong. yet fails at it because no proof. There is so many things that could go wrong w/o PD.

The only way is stun locking. Things that are guarranted to END your run ( those WILL happen because shock squal is not a consistant duration):

Breakga; can use it very early.

Tera slash: can killmultiple DDS at once (~50% chance). it is NOT frontal aoe it is aoe (DD from behind can die to it).

implosion: impossible to counter or stun.

tripple split if you kill too fast (likely with 18): 3 of the same TP move, unstunnable, at the same time. Dont tell me you can survive this. he can do triple tera slash...

Things that will likely end the run, but can be countered:

-ramuh killed, ramuh break'd, ramuh slept (takes 5 sec to resummon, ADL does 2 TP move in 5sec). avatars do not get PD, they will die constantly.

-death.
-slowga: strongger than haste/hastega, probably 30% slow. prety much cancels 2xmarches.

- synchronized spells and tp moves at low HP; aga4 do 1k dmg aoe. all this TP moves have additional effects (gravity, strong paralyze, dispel, knockback).

- dynamis assault (add effect break, see pchan's video in 1st post. wasted 15 sec of PD waiting for stona). Does it right away.

I should mention that a stun-locking strategy will no stun lock it in the first 40% because if you do it will split at exactly 59% instead of ~40%. Also you will not use embrava now (what kind of people need embrava AND PD anyway lol).

[Monchat]

His HP isn't even that high, three really powerful DD's can burn him down, if they can live long enough to do so.

his stats are the same as NQ DL(same HP) untill low HP where he gets access to tier 4 -ga/death/implosion. NQ DL can also piss you off whenever he wants if he wants to spam tera slash/ back to back tier 3-ga. He can also triple split (or double split , I forgot) if you kill too slow. I witnessed recently a bunch of gimp pt made of BSTs/THFs/WHM taking almost 30 minutes to kill it and it kept tripling.

( we wiped 2 times in 500 pops due to all DDs dieing to tera slash).

[MarkovChain]

While on the subject, SagaSinger's drop rate is unreasonably low, I've probably farmed 50+ Marrows with my LS and never seen one, In all of their time doing it (before I joined), Only 1 has dropped, and thats with about 15 Completed 99 Relics or more...


we are like 3/400. FFXIDB has it at 61/5972 lol (1%). It's ok because it sucks like all non emy/relic weapons.

[JohnGotti]

Pchan you still haven't answered anyone when asked why you are crying about the nerfs when you made a topic calling out for them, so with that been said i would like to know why ?

[Monchat]

if you read carefully most of the posts about the nerf aren't about the nerf of PD and embrava itself, but about the lack of adjustements on the contents that need them (ADL Nyzul and Legion). And that's what we are discussing now: ADL unchagned, every group will kill one less clone on average.

[Taint2]

Come on Taint you know this isn't true. ADL isn't particularly hard but he does have stupid powerful moves that him and his clones do at the same time. Those moves have 30~40 foot ranges and will hit everyone in the engagement area. And while dynamis assault is a joke, Implosion, Tera Slash and Oblivion Smash are all wipes. There isn't just one moving going off, he will always split into two at a minimum (three if you brought him under 40%). The very first thing they do is a synch'd TP move, double Oblivion Smash's, double Tera Slash's / ect. Assuming your survive the first one, a few seconds later when your melee's give him TP he'll do another set of double TP moves, you won't be surviving those without PD.

His HP isn't even that high, three really powerful DD's can burn him down, if they can live long enough to do so.



LOL....what?

We are not the only group to do it without PD, I am just the only person dumb enough to post on this forum.

No way have I said its 100%, far from it. But Chanclan says its impossible when its a fact it is not.

It is also not something we go out of our way to do since we generally have 2+ SMNs, we just do it when bored after doing the first 2-3 and COR reset is unlucky.


Karbuncle - nobody died when we did it. I'm not argueing it was luck or whatever, I just argueing Chanclan saying its impossible, which is far from the truth since we did it. There are other groups that say the same thing. Also our none PD partys rarely die, earthen armor/scherzo on our mules keep them alive most every fight.

Chanclan - what are you using to make your youtube videos?

[Babekeke]

3 man ADL (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_otAkCgFgY)

Here is a video showing why perfect defense is so unbalanced, as a mob that can't be killed with 18 suddenly becomes a joke with 3.

Brilliant how you're complaining how ADL needs to be nerfed with the alex nerf, but you post this to show you can kill it with 3 ppl. According to this 3 man video, after the PD nerf, you'll need 1 SMN and 3 MNKs instead. Definately needs a nerf, way to go!

[MarkovChain]

Yup nothing happened you got it. SE has no clue.