next level break

[Secondplanet]

I know this has been mentioned before and i even mentioned before but since new director around why not revive it.

I think SE should look into allowing lvl 100 for players but only allow it for 1-2 jobs to make it that people can specialize in that job. Give the job either the option for 2paths on it like light and darkness or even go overboard (nothing wrong with that) and make it 8 paths for all elements. Then you can change the job of the player from like blackmage to thundermage which would increase lightning attacks and even give special lightning based magic attacks. For melee style jobs change thief to assassin or spy depending on their path.

I personally would think this would add a great deal to the game by not only providing plays with a way to show their love for certain jobs but kinda cheat on SE's side by allowing it to some sense be new advance jobs on their own.

[Komori]

Didn't they not go to 100 because of something like the game had issues showing three digits or something?

[Secondplanet]

Didn't they not go to 100 because of something like the game had issues showing three digits or something?

not sure, they can do it with crafting levels so why not job levels.

[Zagen]

Didn't they not go to 100 because of something like the game had issues showing three digits or something?
That's pretty much it. The game is coded to support up to level 255 at least due to programming numbers.

I don't think it was a legit reason just the best they could think of at the time because if they did give us access to 255 they'd have to reprogram the monster coding as I'm fairly certain they also cap at 255.

Attack goes into 4 digits now and it overlaps the word in the equip window so really the ascetic excuse goes out the window there.

That said I'd rather have them fine tune and fix issues with jobs over just letting us get higher levels.

[Waldrich]

I know this has been mentioned before and i even mentioned before but since new director around why not revive it.

I think SE should look into allowing lvl 100 for players but only allow it for 1-2 jobs to make it that people can specialize in that job. Give the job either the option for 2paths on it like light and darkness or even go overboard (nothing wrong with that) and make it 8 paths for all elements. Then you can change the job of the player from like blackmage to thundermage which would increase lightning attacks and even give special lightning based magic attacks. For melee style jobs change thief to assassin or spy depending on their path.

I personally would think this would add a great deal to the game by not only providing plays with a way to show their love for certain jobs but kinda cheat on SE's side by allowing it to some sense be new advance jobs on their own.

It's not WOW, It's Final Fantasy........ Job limitation? more than what we already have for events...

[Dragonlord]

to make it that people can specialize in that job

NO! This is what we're trying to get away from, don't move backwards. This is a game that gives you the freedom to level any job. Adding "specializing", which in reality is limitation, is terrible design on the system.

SE had a vote on these forums for whether people wanted lv 99 or lv 100, obviously 99 won. There's no point to ever increasing cap again. We can crush 95% of content at this level and await SoA to bring a challenge.

[Kincard]

Yeah, level 99 is a good place to stop.

If you want to show how much you love a job, there's Mythics.

[Camiie]

I know this has been mentioned before and i even mentioned before but since new director around why not revive it.

I think SE should look into allowing lvl 100 for players

Sounds like fun.


but only allow it for 1-2 jobs to make it that people can specialize in that job.

And now you lost me. Stick with the first part. Keep it simple and keep people's options open. Leave out the limits and the elemental path stuff, and you got my vote.

[Mayoyama]

Didn't they not go to 100 because of something like the game had issues showing three digits or something?

They had a huge thread about the topic, and they said since players were more concerned with what the extra level on sj would cause (a lot of job traits gain a new tier/become available and abilities like composure are available at 50) they would not make the cap 100.

[Nala]

I'd assume more then anything there are jobs when used as sub at 50 would afford new capabilities?

[Dudelsack]

lvl 255 can you hear me ?

[Winrie]

Anything higher than 99 would be sad, 99 itself was entirely too high in itself, quite overkill and not really any fun smashing everything into dust with no effort. Personally I was comfy with 85. It still made things challenging and opened doors to the newer ppl who never had good ls to do harder content a bit easier. No more increases. Otherwise overhaul the game completely and redo everything to accommodate it.

[tyrantsyn]

They had a huge thread about the topic, and they said since players were more concerned with what the extra level on sj would cause (a lot of job traits gain a new tier/become available and abilities like composure are available at 50) they would not make the cap 100.
Yea, I remember them saying that. The end result was the Dev's were trying to ascertain whether we wanted the increase in stat's over JA & trait's. And because we all voted base on that, they decided against it.

What I really think it was all about tho is everyone start to pitch a fit about unique JA that would be available as sub's if it happen. And the simple task of just making thing's go to 100 became having to go in and change around a bunch of JA/JT. Which was probably more work than the Dev team wanted to get into over it.

[Mirage]

Anything higher than 99 would be sad, 99 itself was entirely too high in itself, quite overkill and not really any fun smashing everything into dust with no effort. Personally I was comfy with 85. It still made things challenging and opened doors to the newer ppl who never had good ls to do harder content a bit easier. No more increases. Otherwise overhaul the game completely and redo everything to accommodate it.
I'm sure there are things you can't easily lowman even at 99. Have you tried legion?

Or do you think that every single boss from the last 10 years should be a challenge at the max level?

[tyrantsyn]

Anything higher than 99 would be sad, 99 itself was entirely too high in itself, quite overkill and not really any fun smashing everything into dust with no effort. Personally I was comfy with 85. It still made things challenging and opened doors to the newer ppl who never had good ls to do harder content a bit easier. No more increases. Otherwise overhaul the game completely and redo everything to accommodate it.
Want challenge? Try VW with no type items and atmacite. Problem solved.

[Dragonlord]

Want challenge? Try VW with no type items and atmacite. Problem solved.

That would be an artificial challenge. And it's not solely about endgame being more challenging. Back at 75, you could die walking through sea or arrapago for example. The only troubling mobs to solo now are the level 105+ ones that were introduced into older zones. Other than that, the entire free-range world is a cake walk. I want the adventure of walking into a dangerous zone and actually having to avoid agro.

Continuously raising the level cap is pointless. SE is still working on scaling up content to 99 when level raises happened years ago. Again, this is artificial. Its not about your level, or mob's level; it's about the relation between the 2. Level 255 means nothing if there's just new level 270 mobs introduced. Escalation of this manner is not good, just a waste of development time catching up with itself.

[Mirage]

Don't worry, I'm sure there will be plenty of lv105+ mobs randomly wandering around adoulin.

[Nyerieri]

I'm pretty sure another reason they said regarding level 100 is because the game's menu where it displays your level/sj cannot display the 3 digits right now in its (current) form. I thought they said they were going to look at level 100 possibly after the user interface overhaul.

[Afania]

Yeah, level 99 is a good place to stop.

If you want to show how much you love a job, there's Mythics.

Lol, you need a Mythic to show you love a job w. Some Mythic doesn't even improve performance that much and makes literally no difference, how does Mythic show you specialize in one job?

And yes this game needs some sort of specialization for the jobs. A RPG without character characterstics are nothing but emptiness. FF isn't WoW isn't very good arguement, as both games are RPG.



I know this has been mentioned before and i even mentioned before but since new director around why not revive it.

I think SE should look into allowing lvl 100 for players but only allow it for 1-2 jobs to make it that people can specialize in that job. Give the job either the option for 2paths on it like light and darkness or even go overboard (nothing wrong with that) and make it 8 paths for all elements. Then you can change the job of the player from like blackmage to thundermage which would increase lightning attacks and even give special lightning based magic attacks. For melee style jobs change thief to assassin or spy depending on their path.

I personally would think this would add a great deal to the game by not only providing plays with a way to show their love for certain jobs but kinda cheat on SE's side by allowing it to some sense be new advance jobs on their own.

Why keep the lv cap going up when there aren't enough content for current lv cap already. Just keep current lv cap and make more content. Don't see much point to go to lv 100 lv 200 lv 999 etc.

[Kincard]

Lol, you need a Mythic to show you love a job w.

He's implying he wants something that shows you will pick one job above others, and I was citing that as an example of something he could do to show that, but that point obviously flew over your head. Whether it's a relic, mythic, empyrean or whatever personal goal (all the way up to afterglow weapons) you want to set, there already exist plenty of such things that allow you to "specialize" in your job by timesinking into that job more than any other.

[Camiie]

You guys who want specialization know what will happen right? People will be denied entry to events on jobs in which they aren't specialized, just as they are denied for not having emps and relics now. You sure that's what you want?

[Luvbunny]

I think we already have way too many jobs and some of them even start to overlapping one another - not to mention killing off other jobs for spots on events. And we are getting two new jobs that is basically a combination of several jobs, so I suppose that is your "next level" jobs.

[Kriegsgott]

You guys who want specialization know what will happen right? People will be denied entry to events on jobs in which they aren't specialized, just as they are denied for not having emps and relics now. You sure that's what you want?

sure why not

[Afania]

You guys who want specialization know what will happen right? People will be denied entry to events on jobs in which they aren't specialized, just as they are denied for not having emps and relics now. You sure that's what you want?

Better than everyone in a LS all has 15~20 job at 99, ALL equally geared and nothing stands out. How'd you even role-play or tell a story(most important aspect in an RPG) like that. You try to make a manga or fan art for your LS in event, to tell your story, or try to make a blog post to tell your successful event, and you don't even know how to protrait your lsmate cuz none of them have set of skill that stands out. It's no longer about a group of adventurer consists of a fierce/violent WHM, a shy DRK, a DRG that always argue with his wyvern, and a BST that loves to abuse his pet. Your adventurer still keeps the personality, but no longer have the set of skill/characterstics to make the personality stand out.

I've been playing RPG for many years, there aren't many successful RPG where all characters are not specialized at something, and I believe that'd make the game bland in every way. Remember FF3 and 5 where you can job change(never played FFT so no comment)? Although 5 is one of my favorite FF, I can't deny that character in 5 is not as memoriable in characters in 4, such cecil the DRK/PLD, or Kain the DRG. This is the fundemental and soul of RPG, having an option to min-maxing in an event does not tell a great story.

The reason why relic/empy DD isn't invited is because SE made those weapons kinda overpowered compare with others, and majority of players has them. So now SE has to balance the content difficulty to fit the fact that majority of DDs have relic/empy. If you really love your DD job and plan to do endgame, get relic/empy, it's not hard if you don't have 10000 other jobs to spend time on(or else why'd everyone and their mother have one?). If you can't get it due to vairous reasons and still want to play DD job, make your own group or just do easier content then. Life doesn't involve around 1 indiviual, you can't make everything the way you wanted.

[Camiie]

Better than everyone in a LS all has 15~20 job at 99, ALL equally geared and nothing stands out.

You must be in a far different LS than I am. Most people just level what they like. Most who have all jobs leveled have only really worked on a handful of them. I'd say most people are doing just fine limiting themselves.


How'd you even role-play or tell a story(most important aspect in an RPG) like that. You try to make a manga or fan art for your LS in event, to tell your story, or try to make a blog post to tell your successful event, and you don't even know how to protrait your lsmate cuz none of them have set of skill that stands out.

Well I haven't tried to do those things, but everyone I know has a job I identify them with. If I were to create artwork or a story about them, I'd probably ask them how they'd wish to be portrayed. That's pretty simple.


It's no longer about a group of adventurer consists of a fierce/violent WHM, a shy DRK, a DRG that always argue with his wyvern, and a BST that loves to abuse his pet. Your adventurer still keeps the personality, but no longer have the set of skill/characterstics to make the personality stand out.

I don't know anyone who has a made up persona for their character. Most people simply play as themselves.



I've been playing RPG for many years, there aren't many successful RPG where all characters are not specialized at something, and I believe that'd make the game bland in every way. Remember FF3 and 5 where you can job change(never played FFT so no comment)? Although 5 is one of my favorite FF, I can't deny that character in 5 is not as memoriable in characters in 4, such cecil the DRK/PLD, or Kain the DRG. This is the fundemental and soul of RPG, having an option to min-maxing in an event does not tell a great story.

In those games I never felt as though the character was mine. I was simply playing through some other person's story. My FFXI character is what I make of it, and the fewer limits there are the more personal it feels.


The reason why relic/empy DD isn't invited is because SE made those weapons kinda overpowered compare with others, and majority of players has them.

The majority of players don't have them.


So now SE has to balance the content difficulty to fit the fact that majority of DDs have relic/empy.

No they really don't.


If you really love your DD job and plan to do endgame, get relic/empy, it's not hard if you don't have 10000 other jobs to spend time on(or else why'd everyone and their mother have one?).

Bad advice. Relic/empy isn't always the best option.


If you can't get it due to vairous reasons and still want to play DD job, make your own group or just do easier content then. Life doesn't involve around 1 indiviual, you can't make everything the way you wanted.

You could offer that same advice to a lot of shouters.

[Demon6324236]

There is 1 slight difference between a Single player FF game, and this, that is that for this game you control a single character & have to deal with other players, playing their characters. I agree, if I played most other FF games and they had a shit story with bland characters & no real special things about them, it would suck, however in this game, unless everyone is on a level playing field someone is getting screwed. A special level such as what is suggested would have to be meaningless besides show, think if we already had that, SCH could only learn Embrava at lv100, but you had to pick it as 1 of your 3 "chosen" jobs. Every SCH whos lv99 would be screwed, while anyone(everyone who even so much as wants to use SCH for an event) at level 100 would be able to get in events, because they have Embrava.

Also you give a bad example in my opinion. In any group, some people are good at some jobs and bad at others, even if everyone were geared the same, all jobs 99, some people would stand out simply because they know the job better, or they play it better. I have lv99 BLU, my gear is sadly not far behind that of 1 of my LS members, yet he knows alot about BLU, hes good at BLU, I suck as BLU, even were our gear the same, I would never go BLU if it were between 1 of us being BLU, and the other being another job. The closest thing we have or need to specializing our jobs are merits, and even that should be removed because it doesn't work, its just a limiter that only lets us pick the good choices while the others goto waste, never to be used.

This is at least how I see it.

[Chronofantasy]

Personally i would have preferred lvl 100 but like so many mentioned it could possibly be overpowered unless SE changed around some things. I'm not a big fan of odd numbers for important things like job lvls but it's something we have gotten used to with 75 cap for many years. Now we can used to this for another 5 years and who knows maybe whoever is in charge by then might want to increase cap to 125. Never say never. No one ever thought cap would be increased past 75.

[Demon6324236]

75 was a naturally weird number for a FF game, or any RPG I can think of, where as 99 & 100 are very common.

[Kincard]

I personally liked 99 just because it felt more "traditional" in the vein of FF. This IS FF Online, isn't it? Not some other franchise. It's a really minor point sure, but I guess the OCD in me likes the consistency. =P

(I'm aware a couple games go to Lv100 though)

[Afania]

The majority of players don't have them.



How about I change another way to say it.

Majority of player who
1. Isn't new.

2. Not returning player.

3. Been consistantly playing for past 1~2 years without quitting/taking a break, nor log in once every 3 weeks etc.(If you only log on every 3 weeks it doesn't count and so on)

4. Focus on one job instead of having 20 jobs.

5. Plays a DD job that largely benefits from relic/empy such as WAR MNK, instead of jobs like SAM DRK which you can use other weapons.

I find it hard to believe that anyone who only play 1~2 jobs in past 1~2 years and didn't quit/take breaks doesn't have at least 1 relic/empy, unless you aren't focus on it or your job can just use magian weapons. The ones who doesn't have are minority(or returning player/playing on and off players), period.

Go check amount of empy from last census, it's A LOT.

[Mirage]

So the majority, except over half of the players is what you really mean?

[Secondplanet]

I think this would help set personal identity in this game for many characters and not only on a personal level but also would help greatly when building a party.

You can't tell me that every party you built that everyone knew their job and had the skills to use it? I've seen a pup with laughable gear do circles around one with all +2 emp, mythic weapon etc etc etc... I've grown tired of making a party and people can't hit the mob or worst you ask them to cast a spell and they say they can't afford it. People are going to events with any job regardless if they have the knowledge/skills to use it just to go on the event. This would allow seperation between the people who pull stunts like that and people who actually know the job.

Even back at 75 cap my gear for summoner was mediocre but the LS i was in knew i had the skills to surpass the best gear ones out there while there was other LS members who wanted to come summoner boasting their gear bahamuts staff etc but when requested to release their skill levels either refused or lied straight out but spouting an impossible number at the time.

I'm not saying make a 100 lvl'd job god, i'm just asking it as a way to allow some separation for people to know they you know what your doing and give that job 1-2 new abilities for the effort. Even if they make it your top 2 skills have to be capped to do it (unless you only have 1 like summoner lol)

[Demon6324236]

Lv100 would have to be purely for show, no stat increases or JA/JT, otherwise it stops being "These are the jobs I play" and starts becoming "These are the jobs I need the stats for."

I can understand what your saying to an extent with the whole people sucking, I play my friends character, I got his DRK some decent gear & did VW, using a Hoarfrost, bad WS build, and good TP build, I was placing in 2nd in the parse beating out Emp WARs, Relic DRKs, and Emp MNKs. The problem then becomes though, how do you know that even the level 100 Ukon WAR next to you, doesn't still suck? There is almost no way to make attaining lv100 based on skills of the player on a general basis.

[Dragonlord]

Because anyone could make any job they wanted level 100, and still suck at the job. Wanting a job at lv 100 for whatever the benefit is doesn't prove anything other than that benefit is better than the other jobs' benefits at lv100. The only way to prove you know what you're doing, is to show people you can. And you get into these groups by showing you care about a job by gearing it properly. Any job can be geared well by players that know what they're doing.

[Demon6324236]

Well really if its a sign of experience with a job, and to show your good at it, whos to say parties wont start saying that basically, if your DD isn't lv100, you cant join? If you don't have it, you probably aren't to good of a player at that job anyways, so you cant come now.

[Camiie]

Well really if its a sign of experience with a job, and to show your good at it, whos to say parties wont start saying that basically, if your DD isn't lv100, you cant join? If you don't have it, you probably aren't to good of a player at that job anyways, so you cant come now.

That's exactly what would happen. All else being equal, why take the level 99 over the level 100? Even if the bonus is minimal, an edge is still an edge.


I think this would help set personal identity in this game for many characters and not only on a personal level but also would help greatly when building a party.

Let's say I identify myself as a BST and would really like to make it my defining level 100 job. We all know how little BST is desired for much of anything. Now in order to create an identity for myself I've essentially gimped my other, more useful/desired jobs. And, yes people will see a level 99 job as gimped compared to a 100. In order to get things done, I would have to abandon my "identity" and make something more desirable my level 100. That kind of defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

I see where you guys are coming from on this, and I'm sure you mean well. I just think that, much like SE with many of their game play mechanics, your idea is not going to work the way you planned once it's exposed to human nature. It'll backfire big time.

[Mirage]

Yeah, no. All jobs should be possible to level to the same level. There is enough gear available in this game to put your resources into that if you want one of your jobs to be better than others.

[Trisscar]

Isn't the level cap for the Final Fantasy series typically level 99? Is there a legitimate reason why it should be increased again in Final Fantasy XI?

[Mirage]

Legitimate reason? What would even count as an illegitimate reason?

A desire to become stronger sounds like a legitimate reason to me. Was there a legitimate reason to stop the level at 75 earlier? FF1 only went to level 50, FF2 didn't have levels, FF5's job levels had no common "cap", while base levels capped at 99, FF8 went to Lv100, FF10 and 13 didn't have traditional levels at all.

Letting FF11 go to level 143 would be just as legitimate as level 75 or 99.

[Kincard]

As others have said, making it some sort of inconsequential thing (Like, say, a visual glow effect like from Afterglow for a job of your choice) is the only way this would work.

Merit WSs is a similar idea to this, except in that case you can choose 3, and that is already going over pretty poorly. Not to mention the fact that for half the WS there are alternatives that are equally powerful after factoring in compensation from aftermath effects. The suggestion the OP is making is basically if every single merit WS was on the level of usefulness of Ruinator for BST or Shoha for SAMs, where if you don't have it the job becomes severely crippled for your character.

[Secondplanet]

Yeah, no. All jobs should be possible to level to the same level. There is enough gear available in this game to put your resources into that if you want one of your jobs to be better than others.

except when it comes to summoner, not much in the way of gear the isn't emp/relic/jse/af etc if you see the pattern here.

[Dragonlord]

The fact that summoner doesn't get as much gear/weapons to differentiate itself isn't a good reason to adjust level caps overall. Summoner has far more pressing matters to deal with anyways (new avatars being delayed, ja delays, terrible DoT damage, etc.)

[Leonardus]

I wouldn't want to be Level 99 forever. However, I agree that now is not the time to raise the bar yet, as the world would not support it. Come time for a level 100-110 though, I wish those levels would begin to matter more. It's pretty dumb how little our max HP has raised since 75, for example (And seriously, why do Robber Crabs and Dire Bats aggro a level 99? The world sees us as glorified 75s, this needs to change).

[Demon6324236]

Robber Crabs & stuff aggro for a good reason, the game isn't built for lv99s, its built for 75s. If lv75 mobs did not aggro us, nothing would, the game would lose any and all sense of danger when traveling instantly. However at the same time, cant say its threatening, most 75 mobs can be dealt with without effort, run through zones chaining aggro for no reason but to get from point A to B because mobs cant hurt/kill you.

[Dragonlord]

The only reason lv 56s are still EP is for trial of the magians. Which SE kind of cornered themselves on unless they allow TW mobs to count towards trials, or go through each trial and make sure there's lv appropriate mobs for lv 99.

[Trisscar]

Legitimate reason? What would even count as an illegitimate reason?

A desire to become stronger sounds like a legitimate reason to me. Was there a legitimate reason to stop the level at 75 earlier? FF1 only went to level 50, FF2 didn't have levels, FF5's job levels had no common "cap", while base levels capped at 99, FF8 went to Lv100, FF10 and 13 didn't have traditional levels at all.

Letting FF11 go to level 143 would be just as legitimate as level 75 or 99.

Let's put it this way, then, I think level 99 is just fine for the cap right now. But I would support a new cap in a couple of years.

[Mirage]

Well, there are plenty of ways to make people stronger except gear and levels.

Spells, job abilities, job traits and weaponskills could be unlocked through a series of quests, for example. This could open up for more variety in the ways different jobs grew stronger, allowing SE to tailor quests to feel unique for the specific jobs they are made for.

Then there is also the possibility of a whole new bunch of lv99 merits in the new area. I'm sure you don't disagree with me if I say a lv99 with 0 merits and a lv99 with a few million limit points put into merits would perform very differently in battle. If we get even more job specific and general super-merits that were made with the power of a lv99 in mind, we could see a very significant increase in power from that as well.

What I'm having in mind as potential new merits are things like recast and/or potency for many of the new abilities, spells and traits gained between the implementation of the current merits and now. For sam, skillchain bonus effect, for example, and konzen ittai recast.


Personally, I would welcome a change in character strength progression away from the "grind same mob forever" shit we have now. I'm just not sure if I can trust SE with the task of making a system like that that actually works for all jobs for the remainder of the game's lifetime.

[Afania]

So the majority, except over half of the players is what you really mean?

Do you have any solid proof or statistics to prove that over 50% of player that fits above description doesn't have relic/empy(and not a mule/alt)? Because over half of the players I know that fits above description has one. And that includes my social/none event LS. Some ppl keep insisting that empy/relic majority of player(playing on and off doesn't count, main other jobs doesn't count) can't get one, but if that's true, where did all those none-relic/empy player goes as I rarely see anyone who main DD job that benefits a lot from relic/empy doesn't have one. All the players who doesn't have one that I know of, is either been playing on and off(like log in once every week), returnering player or new player, or playing a job such as SAM DRK DRG which doesn't really need one to have acceptable performance, or focus on mage job and doesn't care about DD. Even some very casual player have at least 1, since they often just log on and lowman abby or solo dyna.

Again, if the number of empy/relic owner is as low as you claimed, where did all those ppl go?

[Demon6324236]

How about I change another way to say it.

Majority of player who
1. Isn't new.

2. Not returning player.

3. Been consistantly playing for past 1~2 years without quitting/taking a break, nor log in once every 3 weeks etc.(If you only log on every 3 weeks it doesn't count and so on)

4. Focus on one job instead of having 20 jobs.

5. Plays a DD job that largely benefits from relic/empy such as WAR MNK, instead of jobs like SAM DRK which you can use other weapons.This list of "excluding blah blah blah" is what that remark was directed at, you limited the amount, it stopped being "most people" and started being "most people who are not blah blah blah, and do not do blah blah blah" in which case, your right. Most people who have been playing the last 2 years without stop & focus on a few select jobs rather than trying out everything probably have these, not all. However when looking at the general player base, and then asking about Relic/Emp, most players do not. You said "Because over half of the players I know that fits above description has one." I have 2 friends who I know have played the game for more than 7 years, 1 has a Masa he got about 2~3 months ago, the other is just about to finish a Kannagi, many others in my ls either have one at the Abyssea NM stage, or have none at all. Few of them are new, fewer are returning, and almost none of them are on so little, or play every job.

[Afania]

This list of "excluding blah blah blah" is what that remark was directed at, you limited the amount, it stopped being "most people" and started being "most people who are not blah blah blah, and do not do blah blah blah" in which case, your right. Most people who have been playing the last 2 years without stop & focus on a few select jobs rather than trying out everything probably have these, not all. However when looking at the general player base, and then asking about Relic/Emp, most players do not. You said "Because over half of the players I know that fits above description has one." I have 2 friends who I know have played the game for more than 7 years, 1 has a Masa he got about 2~3 months ago, the other is just about to finish a Kannagi, many others in my ls either have one at the Abyssea NM stage, or have none at all. Few of them are new, fewer are returning, and almost none of them are on so little, or play every job.


They posted "majority of player doesn't have relic/empy" as a problem for specialization, but for the ppl I exclude, it isn't that big of a problem.

If someone is new/returning player, is it really that much of a big deal that you don't get invited to VW as DD?

If I'm going to a completely new MMO, the first thing I will be worry about, is to lv up, and get the story done. I only worry about gear/endgame content once I'm done with everything.

Endgame content that requires repeatitive grind is for those who already done everything else, to keep players around so the game won't be dead.

A new/returning player wouldn't even need to worry about getting an invite to endgame content when they already have something else to do. If you just got your 1st job 99, haven't beat CoP, haven't experience Abyssea, haven't get SJ done, haven't done almost everything else, why do you worry about not getting invite on VW/legion?

In other MMOs, endgame content are in tiers. You do lower tier to get gear so you have performance to do higher tiers. I see no problem if returning player/new player don't get invite to lv 99 endgame pts.

If newer player/returning player already run out of things to do and still don't get invite, maybe that'd be a problem. But atm this isn't a big problem at all.


If you don't have relic/empy because you play on and off, is that a problem too? I know many ppl who only log in once every 1~2 weeks, to chat and just for no reason except missing FFXI and it's ppl. However, if you only log on every once 1~2 weeks just to chat but not make progress, that also means you have no desire to deeply involved in this game.

So if you're not really attached but only log on to chat, fat chances are endgame gear grind won't be very attractive to this type of player too. Endgame gear grind is only attractive to those player who is already attached/addicted. For those who come and go, they aren't interested in doing it often to begin with.

If your job doesn't need relic/empy to have proper performance and just stick with magian, that means you will still get invite with those weapons and don't need relic/empy. So why is this a problem? Last Legion run my OAT DRK actually outparsed Masa 99 SAM, so it isn't a big problem at all if your DD has the ability to deal good dmg without relic/empy when they will get invite without it?

If you choose to put priority and resource on your mage jobs because you're mage main and love mages, then you will still get invite on mages, why is it a problem if your main/favorite job gets invite and jobs you don't care/love doesn't get invite? You choose not to care about DD job to begin with, and you're not happy that your DD job doesn't get invite? That's ironic.

If you're 20 jobs player, don't focus on 1 job but have all 20 jobs and none of them stands out, it's still easy to get invite to fill up the party spot based on what they need. So why is it a problem for this kind of player not having relic/empy? They will get a spot anyways. And if all your 20 jobs are equally geared, fat chances are you probably don't have strong perference on 1 specific job, so not getting spot for 1 of the job out of 20 probably isn't that much of a big deal too no?

I fail to see what's the big deal in terms of specialization. You get invite on your best geared/favorite job, nothing wrong with that. Probably more of a problem if there are no specialization and every player has 20 jobs leveled/equally geared and often are forced to play their least favorite job.

[Demon6324236]

I main RDM, I play DRK, WHM, BLU, SCH, and the occasional other job, because RDM is wanted for nearly nothing. If I am forced to pick certain jobs to goto a higher level, it would likely come to this list of priority for me right now.
1) DRK
2) SCH
3) RDM

I main RDM, why is my list like this? Because these are the jobs I get to play in events. As much as I love my RDM, I would have to pick it 3rd because unless my DRK is going to events, my RDM is getting no new gear, no new things to make it grow, it is worthless to me at lv100.

"You get invite on your best geared/favorite job" Since when, I would get invited as RDM to endgame as much then, as I do now, oh wait, thats almost never! Making specialized things for jobs as you suggest is just another way to make people put more into jobs they rather not, instead of jobs they want to.

Want an Example we already have in place? Merit WSs, I want Upheaval, I like WAR, I have been gearing it better, I don't always want to have to use Raging Rush. At the same time, I main RDM, and made Excalibur, Requiescat is a near must for me, without it my Relic would lose alot of its use when you think about me having an Almace as well. Resolution is another must have WS, why? Because its that strong, I geared up my DRK alot, I can tell you for sure, if I were to goto a VW party & start using something besides Resolution(mind you, no Emp/Relic) I would be kicked instantly. I also play SAM, but have no Masa, guess what that means? In these things I have had to give up having fun on some jobs I like in order to have efficiency, and power, on jobs I need to go for events, limiting the power of my jobs I like, and instead forcing me to put power into jobs I either do not like, or do not care to "specialize" in.

[Xantavia]

As others have said, making it some sort of inconsequential thing (Like, say, a visual glow effect like from Afterglow for a job of your choice) is the only way this would work
Sadly, I agree that this is the only way it would work (as much as I would like otherwise). Some people are too focused on numbers that they would be offended if some guy who chose his main job was able to do 1001 dmg instead of their "gimped" 1000. I wish there was some way to distinguish your main job, but a visual change is the only one that would work.

Sure, some people don't care enough about having a main job, but I personally feel a little punch in the gut when I run across a blu that doesn't have all their spells. (And I am actually embarrassed that I'm still 2 unbridled spells away from having them all)

[Afania]

"You get invite on your best geared/favorite job" Since when, I would get invited as RDM to endgame as much then, as I do now, oh wait, thats almost never! Making specialized things for jobs as you suggest is just another way to make people put more into jobs they rather not, instead of jobs they want to.


I look for good/skilled RDM for legion event since day 1. Just because you don't do legion doens't mean other ppl isn't looking for RDM. I'm totally willing to take a career RDM to my group over an average DD or ppl with 20 job leveled but nothing stands out, just because skilled RDM is really hard to find.


If everyone all have 20 job leveled and equally geared, players won't be able to "main" any job anymore because only the player that has more jobs at 99 will be useful. What's the point to invite a career RDM or career DRK to pt when I can just get random player with 20 jobs to pt? And what's the point to "main" a job in this game if you can just level more jobs and be more useful? I know many players that dedicated entire time in XI just to be good at one job, and got extremely good at it. It wouldn't make sense if everyone else with more jobs leveled all play that job as well, forcing all those career players lv another job just to compete with other players with more jobs.

I'm not saying you can't have 20 jobs leveled, there are certainly some advantage by doing so, but you should also get appropriate disadvantage too, so does the one who spend entire time to specialize 1 job. Ppl should have an option to choose to be versatile or specialized, not just force everyone be versatile while gaining no advantage to focus on one job.

[Demon6324236]

I have an advantage over anyone who levels RDM just to level another job. I assure you that nearly any RDM who does not main the job, or think of it as one of their favorite jobs, will not have half of the gear or gear sets I have. Most probably have cure potency, nuking, and enfeebling, maybe a bit more on the side like Enhancing, where as I have 9 gear sets, from TPing to Stoneskin, this gives me an advantage over those others who level it for the sake of leveling. Their disadvantage is they do not know the job as well as I do, or the gear to play it as I do. I need no level 100 to make me stand out and above others, nor do I want such a thing, infact as I have tried to make apparent, I find it rather bad for my job, if such a thing were introduced to the game, because I think it would force me into using it on jobs I rather not, for the sake of utility, and furthering my true goal.

[Secondplanet]

Well, there are plenty of ways to make people stronger except gear and levels.

Spells, job abilities, job traits and weaponskills could be unlocked through a series of quests, for example. This could open up for more variety in the ways different jobs grew stronger, allowing SE to tailor quests to feel unique for the specific jobs they are made for.

Then there is also the possibility of a whole new bunch of lv99 merits in the new area. I'm sure you don't disagree with me if I say a lv99 with 0 merits and a lv99 with a few million limit points put into merits would perform very differently in battle. If we get even more job specific and general super-merits that were made with the power of a lv99 in mind, we could see a very significant increase in power from that as well.

What I'm having in mind as potential new merits are things like recast and/or potency for many of the new abilities, spells and traits gained between the implementation of the current merits and now. For sam, skillchain bonus effect, for example, and konzen ittai recast.


Personally, I would welcome a change in character strength progression away from the "grind same mob forever" shit we have now. I'm just not sure if I can trust SE with the task of making a system like that that actually works for all jobs for the remainder of the game's lifetime.

i actually liked where this was going, like with the avatar merit attacks you can have all unlocked and take one of your choice to lvl 5, this is the kind of thing i want in the game, something that would allow players to show a more specific and personal "flavor" if you would for their job. I personally didn't think of adding a whole new merit set(s) or even quests. I would welcome it. In the past i suggested a way to "upgrade" the avatars like titan would get sharper looking stone look or even diamond clad armor.

[Trisscar]

Well, there are plenty of ways to make people stronger except gear and levels.

Spells, job abilities, job traits and weaponskills could be unlocked through a series of quests, for example. This could open up for more variety in the ways different jobs grew stronger, allowing SE to tailor quests to feel unique for the specific jobs they are made for.

Then there is also the possibility of a whole new bunch of lv99 merits in the new area. I'm sure you don't disagree with me if I say a lv99 with 0 merits and a lv99 with a few million limit points put into merits would perform very differently in battle. If we get even more job specific and general super-merits that were made with the power of a lv99 in mind, we could see a very significant increase in power from that as well.

What I'm having in mind as potential new merits are things like recast and/or potency for many of the new abilities, spells and traits gained between the implementation of the current merits and now. For sam, skillchain bonus effect, for example, and konzen ittai recast.


Personally, I would welcome a change in character strength progression away from the "grind same mob forever" shit we have now. I'm just not sure if I can trust SE with the task of making a system like that that actually works for all jobs for the remainder of the game's lifetime.

I actually like this idea better than increasing caps at this time. Why don't people talk about lvl 99 tier three and four merits?

[Trumpy]

I didnt read most of this thread but what happened was the community/dev team asked in these very forums if we would like to go to 99 or 100. Most said 99 cause it is the classic cap in most FF games i believe. Im partial to both choices myself, and i miss the opportunity to have level 50 abilities and traits. Im sure the decision wasnt entirely based on the vote but I think it may have made a dent in the decision.

[Tsukino_Kaji]

lvl 255 can you hear me ?Has any Square Soft or SE game had a cap past lvl100?